December 2, 2025 • 37 mins
Bright skies at the ranch set a sharp contrast to the truth we explore with guest Lindy Brown: the weight a first responder carries doesn’t stay at work. Lindy is the widow of an Iowa State Trooper who died by suicide. She shares why she felt called to speak, how a five-year slow burn of trauma changed her husband, and what families see long before reports or discipline ever show up. We talk openly about the nights that never end, the way alcohol masks pain, and the moment a prom night scuffle became a desperate signal that no one knew how to read.
I open up about my own spiral—pain pills, vodka, suicidal plans—and the lie that strength means silence. Together we break down what hypervigilance looks like at home, why small conflicts can spark explosive reactions, and how culture can unintentionally punish honesty. We dig into leadership responses, the hollow comfort of “leave it at the door,” and the reality that counseling offered without trust is counseling refused. Lindy explains how one horrific call—collecting the remains of a man struck by a semi in a storm—etched itself into Jeff’s mind. No academy prepares you for a five-gallon bucket and picking up human body parts.
This conversation isn’t about blame; it’s about building something better. If you’re a first responder, a spouse, or a leader, you’ll hear practical insight, lived experience, and a clear path toward safer, braver conversations. Hit play, share it with someone who needs to hear it, and if this resonates, subscribe and leave a review so more families can find real help.
If you or someone you know is in crisis and at risk of self-harm, please call or text 988, the suicide and crisis lifeline.
To contact us directly send an email to Dan@10-42project.org or call 515-350-6274
Visit our website! 10-42project.org
Check us out on social media!
Youtube: @1042project
Facebook: www.facebook.com/1042project
Instagram: 1042_project
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_04 (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the Shared
Voices Podcast.
Thanks for joining us.
We're back out at the ranch.
Gentry's out here today.
What's up, Gentry?
SPEAKER_01 (00:08):
Not much, boss, man.
SPEAKER_04 (00:09):
What a beautiful day.
Man.
The ranch, it's uh, what is it,70 degrees, sunny?
You gotta love this time ofyear.
But we came back out to theranch because we have a special
interview today.
Uh Gentry lined this up.
Gentry's is is running and thengonna be in charge of the
podcast stuff and setting upinterviews and all that.
Um, so she set this interview upand I'm really excited about it.
Today we have on Lindy Brown.
(00:32):
And she's coming on to talkabout something that you've
heard us talk about on thispodcast several times.
Um, when we talk aboutdepression and suicide.
Um, we have a special guest heretoday who is the wife of an Iowa
State trooper who took his life,and she wants to come on here
today and tell her story, andwith the impact of our listeners
(00:56):
to be able to hear hear her sideof it.
I mean, not her side of it, tohear what the wisdom that she's
learned through this and theroad she's gone through because
it's been a it's been a longhard road.
But she wants to be able toshare that, especially for first
responders that may be dealingwith this in the future, whose
spouses may be going through it,and we are just so proud of her
for showing up.
(01:17):
She drove two hours to get here.
She could have done it online,but she chose to drive two hours
because she wanted to do it inperson.
So we're blessed to have herhere.
So, Lindy, thank you for drivingall the way here.
SPEAKER_00 (01:27):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04 (01:28):
By the Cedar Rapids area.
Yep.
So I just met you.
We had a really greatconversation, and I'm so glad
you're here.
And if I can be honest with you,I don't normally get like a
little nervous when I record,but this one's really it's I'm
not nervous, but we're gonna godeep here for a little bit and
talk about um talk about somethings that we need to talk
(01:52):
about.
Absolutely.
I don't know if you know much ofmy story, but I was only in law
enforcement for 14 years.
And by the 14th year, I wasalcoholic, addicted to pain
pills, suicidal.
Um, asked my wife for a divorce,started shedding my family
because I was trying to killmyself.
Uh I'd get off of work and justgo up to my my bathroom and sit
(02:14):
inside the the bathtub withclothes on, with no water in it,
um, just to contain the bloodfor my suicide because I didn't
want to make a mess.
So I'd sit there and sit insidethe tub with my bottle of
hydrocodone pills, popping asmany pills as I could, drinking
vodka, uh, playing with myservice weapon, putting it in my
mouth, trying to kill myself.
Um led to a lot of dark dayslike that.
(02:38):
My body would vomit up the pillsand I'd pick them up, put them
back in, my whole thing.
I just want to die, even thoughI was a father of three.
I didn't want to live, I didn'tfeel worthy.
I went down that I went downthat road and it's a miracle I'm
here.
I don't know.
I mean, I guess I do know whyI'm here.
Um because God turns pain intopurpose, and I think that's why
you're here today.
Yes, he does.
(02:59):
So why don't you tell us alittle bit about why you're here
today and why uh why you thinkit's important to be able to use
your voice.
This is called the Shared VoicesPodcast.
Why it's important to use yourvoice.
SPEAKER_00 (03:12):
Well, about two and a half years ago, I felt called
to use my voice.
Um, because I believe that Godputs us in situations and has us
go through difficult times sothat we can share those
experiences of how he helped usovercome it so that we can help
heal other people and give themhope and show God's love to
(03:33):
them.
SPEAKER_04 (03:34):
Yeah.
Well, that's uh I couldn'timagine being able to sit down
right now and to be able to dothis interview.
You lost your husband.
SPEAKER_00 (03:44):
I did.
SPEAKER_04 (03:44):
You lost your husband to suicide, and he was a
he was an Iowa state trooper.
SPEAKER_00 (03:49):
Yes.
SPEAKER_04 (03:50):
And so if you don't mind, let's just let's kind of
talk about that a little bit.
Because so many of our spouses,when they walk out that door,
they don't know if their spouseis coming home.
Right.
And they worry about it, andthen time after time the spouse
comes home, but then there's aday um where they don't come
home or they come home andthey're just not the same.
Um yeah.
(04:11):
So how long did Jeff have on?
So tell us a little bit aboutJeff.
Tell us about this this amazingman that you were married to.
SPEAKER_00 (04:16):
Right.
So Jeff um had always wanted toserve and he served in on
military.
He also served in lawenforcement and had a drive to
just be there for people andtake care of people.
Um he started with IowaDepartment of Publix Public
Safety in the um DCI.
(04:38):
And then he moved over totroopers.
Um, he was in uh with thetroopers for a while, a long
time.
So um yeah, but talking aboutlike what you're saying is you
know, looking back.
Um and when I did uh thedocument information for the
PSOB, I can see because you haveto do a statement of like a
(05:03):
personal statement for it, andum documenting the situations
that he shared with me duringthe five years leading up to him
passing.
Just was like uh just a snowballof things.
Um so we had moved out onto uhAcreage and um things were going
(05:27):
really great.
Girls were in a new school andum just getting things around as
far as you know, building a lifeout there together.
And he moved to State Patrol andhe loved it.
Um it was exactly what like yousee, like the pride and just
being able to support the othertroopers, and it was definitely
(05:49):
it's definitely a brotherhood.
And it's amazing the brotherhoodthat's there, how they take care
of each other.
So um, you know, things don'thappen overnight.
SPEAKER_04 (06:03):
Yeah, you said five years, so can we let's go back
to that if you don't mindbecause you know it was in 2020
when I uh the last time I wentto kill myself and when God put
this whole mission of starting1042 on on um on my heart.
Um at the time there was justreally nothing.
Um I'm losing my train ofthought.
(06:25):
I knew this is gonna happen.
I'm gonna get emotional so muchduring this stuff, so it's all
good.
I know.
Um, what was I saying?
SPEAKER_01 (06:32):
The five years that you're talking about.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (06:34):
Go ahead.
You go ahead, start off.
SPEAKER_01 (06:36):
No, I was just gonna say, when did you you start to
notice like a shift?
SPEAKER_04 (06:41):
Yeah, like was it like a he so he went to work one
day and came home different?
Or it's a slow I always tellpeople it's a slow burn.
SPEAKER_00 (06:47):
It is a slow, painful burn.
Yes.
And so what I saw, like he wouldcome home after a shift and have
a really hard night.
Um, he started using alcoholmore um as a coping mechanism
when he got off work.
Um, but it wasn't always that,it was sometimes just being not
(07:12):
present at home.
Yeah.
Either not present at home whenhe was there or not present,
period.
Like he would go and help otherpeople, like to take his mind
out of that space from his work.
And and it's interesting becauselooking back, I can see how he
was trying to protect me and ourdaughters from what was going on
(07:36):
in him, in his head.
Um and plus just family life andthe regular things that would
happen in a family were withwhat was going on at work and
him not having the coping skillsto take care of the higher
cortisol levels in his head andthe mental wellness checks um
(07:59):
that needed to happen daily umwere would cause him to then be
angry and uh very difficult tolive with at home because the
stresses of just normal lifefelt like they were so
threatening to him.
(08:19):
So threatening.
Everything was so threatening.
Yeah.
So even like COVID happened,right?
For everybody, shutdown happenedand um they were the guys had to
be on the road still, eventhough you know there was the
threat of like sharing COVID andall the stuff, right?
They're still making trafficstops.
(08:41):
So there was that ingrained fearin society, right?
We're just gonna put it thatway.
Um, but then he would come homeand the girls would have had to
mask up for school, and um, theythen closed school down.
So my oldest daughter was in heruh senior year, and um they it
(09:04):
was before prom happened thatthey closed school.
So we chose to have um severalparents and I chose to have prom
out at our farm.
And so collaboratively we gottogether and somebody brought a
DJ equipment, somebody brought atent, right?
And somebody broughtphotography.
It was amazing.
And during that time, whichshould have been super
(09:26):
celebratory.
Um Jeff had been going throughso much with work, and I had
seen the change in him, and I'mkind of getting ahead of myself
and my story because this is umjust seven months before he
passed.
Um, he came in when I was doingthe girls' hair, and he was just
(09:47):
acting very strange, like hewanted my attention.
Um, but at that point, I waslike, I need to focus on the
girls.
This is their day.
We should be excited for them,right?
My youngest wasn't old enough tobe in high school, but she got
invited to go to the seniorprom, right?
And so both of them, it was justlike this excitement, but he had
a drink and he's like, I'mtaking off.
(10:08):
And he um, I believe that he hadto work, it was the next day or
that night.
But he took off and he had ahard alcohol drink he took with
him.
And um I don't know where hewent.
And frankly, I was in a mindsetthat I was like, just go.
Right, just go.
(10:29):
This isn't about you today, justgo.
And um, because sometimes theenergy that's brought with that
is um it just takes the life outof everything, and it affects
the entire family and the kids.
And so I was go.
And so he came back, it wasprobably an hour.
(10:50):
He came back and he stood in thedoorway to the bathroom, and he
um I looked over at him and hehad blood off of his lip and he
was he looked beat up.
Like he didn't have bruising,but he looked beat up.
And I just looked at him and I'mlike, what have you been doing?
What's going on?
(11:10):
And he goes, Well, I went and Iwent and got the shit kick it
kicked out of me and I deservedit.
And I was like, what?
He goes, I went looking for afight and I deserved it.
And I just I could not believewhat was going on.
It's like what what in the worldis going on?
(11:33):
Because that's not your husbandright now.
No, yeah, that's not yourhusband.
It was totally different person.
It was so weird.
And um, I was I just looked athim like okay, well, you don't
have a concussion.
You're gonna have to hold on aminute.
I was getting ready to take thegirls to the neighbors because
(11:53):
they were gonna have the dinner.
And so I left and he goes, Well,just so you know.
And he all of a sudden switchedinto very logical brain, just
boom.
And he goes, just so you know,there's gonna be police here,
I'm pretty sure when you getback.
And I said, Okay, why what?
And he goes, Well, there wereseveral young men involved in
(12:15):
this situation, and I'm prettysure that they called the police
and they're gonna come and get astatement from me.
And I I left, I went and I waslike, okay, whatever you need to
deal with.
I'm like, I just want you toknow you're you're putting your
job at risk, and I don'tunderstand what's going on right
now.
So I came back and yep, therewere officers in my house.
(12:38):
And I walked in and Jeff waswriting out a report, like, not
unlike I've ever seen him writea report, right?
I mean, he just writes thereport like he needs to write a
report, like it was a regularday.
And um, they took him out on theoutside the house and they took
pictures because the people thathe got in a fight with um got
(13:02):
him on the ground and theyactually, you know, broke a
bottle over the back of hishead.
And um a good Samaritan camethrough this backwoods like
waterway where they were at,because these people go down
there and party and stuff.
And a good Samaritan happened tocome through, which I know God
sent them and stopped the fightand got Jeff up.
(13:24):
Um he doesn't know who it was,and I know that's that's who it
was.
So um, anyway, they took thereport and I introduced myself
to them.
And Jeff was like, This is mywife, Lindy, and they took the
report, and I just was standingin the kitchen going, somebody
just asked me one question.
(13:46):
How often, and how normal is itreally?
I'm gonna get a little sarcasticbecause I've been around
officers and my husband was anofficer for a long time.
And how normal is it that youhave to go get a statement from
someone that is in in lawenforcement that went out and
got in a fight?
Yeah, and it's not normal.
(14:07):
There's nothing normal about it.
And no one asked a question.
And I was just in the kitchen,like somebody, I'm just like in
their presence, like somebodyjust asked me one thing.
I just wanna I wanna ask aquestion.
I don't care what kind ofdifficulties it's gonna cause in
my marriage, I just say it.
(14:28):
Nobody said anything, and so itthat's what happened then.
Um, and I have more to talkabout with that later on, about
the effects of that um with howit was handled in in within his
uh department.
So that's in for another part ofthe conversation, but there were
(14:50):
so many times that he would comehome and share with me um
something that happened uh whenhe was on duty.
Um and it became more that hewasn't able to sleep well.
Um he was trying to medicatewith alcohol.
Um I started asking him when itfirst started, and it didn't
(15:12):
feel like he was getting answersum like with his within himself
and his people that he washanging out with.
I started asking him if he wouldgo to a counselor.
And he told me no, he couldn't.
He couldn't go because it wouldaffect his job.
And I couldn't understand thatbecause my work, which was also
(15:34):
uh a company that I worked for,was very pro-wellness.
And he told me that he couldlose his job.
Um, if not lose his job, hewould lose his credibility
because they would say that hewasn't fit to work because he
was not able to handlesituations, which as things
happened over the next couple ofyears, just the the logic of
(15:59):
that was so uh paramount for mebecause um a couple times.
So let me tell you about one ofthe situations.
Um so he responded to a call.
Uh there was another trooperalready there, but he responded
to a call that there was a uhman versus semi uh suicide, and
(16:24):
it was uh a thunderstorm thatwas on one of the interstates,
and uh the man had parked hisvehicle on the other side of the
road and walked across the mediaand knelt in front of a semi.
Well, the semi-driver couldn'tsee him because of all the rain
and uh it eviscerated the manand uh Jeff shared with me that
(16:48):
uh this is at like three o'clockin the morning because he
usually got off shift and camehome and went to bed about one.
But when he came to bed thatnight, he wasn't able to sleep
and he didn't wake me up.
I could feel him, I could feelthe stress and the disquiet in
him.
(17:09):
And it woke me up and I'm like,hey, are you okay?
And he said, No, I'm really notokay.
And I had a really bad night,and I'm like, you want to talk
about it?
And that's when he shared thatwith me.
He shared with me that uh he wasresponsible for uh walking the
(17:29):
interstate and picking up littlepieces of that human, that
person that no longer is with usand putting them and he said,
and he goes picking them up andcollecting it, and I said, Okay,
so and I'm trying to get him totalk about it, but I don't know
(17:50):
what to say.
And I'm like, so did you havelike a body bag or something?
Like like something that 'causeI know he he was so respectful
of like he truly loved peoplestopped and got really angry and
(18:18):
he said no.
I had to put him in a fivegallon bucket.
That was Yeah, that was reallythere was so much about that
that just uh, you know, brokehim.
SPEAKER_04 (18:38):
No human is meant to face that to deal with that much
drama.
SPEAKER_00 (18:41):
And I have to share that, that um that's something
I've been saying for a longtime, Daniel.
No one, no matter what kind oftraining you go through in the
academy as a law enforcementofficer, and you do your duty,
you stop people, you have thoseconversations, you take care of
(19:02):
all these difficult situations.
No one can ever be trained tohandle that kind of situation.
SPEAKER_04 (19:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:13):
No one.
SPEAKER_04 (19:14):
No one and then but we act like we're supposed to be
able to handle it.
SPEAKER_00 (19:19):
Everyone that isn't doesn't know what it the job is
about believes that they don'teven know.
But they do they believe whatthey they don't know what they
don't know, right?
That's it.
And so it's like, oh yeah,they're taking care of their
job, they're doing the amazingthings, go, go, go, right.
And it's like all thisadrenaline and go, and uh, and
(19:40):
truly there's all these otherthings that are going on that
affect people so deeply.
And um, but it is part of thejob, and it's uh it's real.
SPEAKER_04 (19:53):
It is, and you can ignore it.
That's the thing.
Gentry is when we try to when wewe're dealing with like like for
me, I just kept silent for allthose years.
And it just led to addictions,and that's why that's like what
our organization does, there'spower and community, there's
power and talking like we'redoing right now.
SPEAKER_01 (20:09):
Yes, there is.
SPEAKER_04 (20:10):
I mean, it matters.
SPEAKER_01 (20:12):
One question I have is um that incident that you're
just talking about, how long didbetween the time that he
committed suicide and that, howmuch time was there in between?
SPEAKER_00 (20:23):
I'm not sure.
I think that was a that waswithin that five-year time
frame.
It was a couple years before.
But when we look back at thereport, the reports that were
pulled of the just thesituations that he told me
about.
Because unfortunately, thesystem that's used for the
reports is very archaic.
(20:44):
Like there's not a really goodway to pull incidences because
someone may have been involvedin an incident, but there's no
way to pull it because someoneelse wrote the report.
Um, you would have to knowspecifically where it happened
and that to actually mine thatdata out.
So I'm just so thankful to Godthat he allowed me to hear those
(21:09):
situations to use my voice thisway because uh it wasn't
something that he talked aboutto anybody.
Like that incident, he only toldto his very close, two of his
close friends about it.
Yeah.
Or three.
So um yeah, but there whenlooking at the reports, there
(21:30):
were it was uh multitudes, likejust monthly of not just regular
traffic stops or but but onesthat are trauma that are
identified by the federalgovernment as traumatic cases.
Right, it wasn't just multipledeaths and things like that.
So um, yeah, reporting like heum responded to a girl that was
(21:56):
um that had um attempted suicideum off of the in an over over
overpass.
Um she was my girls' age.
And so it was very hard.
I mean it's hard anyway, butit's like hits differently
(22:16):
because it's very close towhat's going on in his life.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (22:20):
Um so uh when Jeff passed, how old were the how old
were the girls?
SPEAKER_00 (22:26):
Um my oldest was 18 and my youngest was 15.
SPEAKER_04 (22:32):
So was that incident with the with the fight?
Was that the first time yourealized or was that the first
big event where you're like,whoa, like this is not my
husband.
SPEAKER_00 (22:41):
So that was yeah, that was a really big, um, huge
anger was my what in the world.
But he actually had startedbecoming very angry, uh, very
volatile about the thisminuscule family things that are
just for me as a as a mom, it'slike, okay, that could just be a
(23:02):
teaching opportunity.
Um, but going from zero to youknow 360 in a matter of just
like a second, just boom, itwould just flip.
And like he would be in a greatmood, and everybody's getting
along in the house, and all of asudden the energy would change,
and it could just be a word, itcould just be a look that
(23:23):
somebody had, and just it wouldflip that uh PTSD switch, and um
yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (23:29):
And it does, it comes out of nowhere.
Sometimes it comes like when youthink you're doing the best, or
sometimes it comes after youthink you're doing good, and
then all of a sudden, man, itjust comes out of nowhere.
Yeah, anger, like I think I saidthis before, but road rage was a
big thing for me.
When I literally, when I was offduty, like somebody would cut in
front of me.
I would I'd go, I'd drive anhour if I had to to find to
(23:51):
follow them to their house andconfront them and try to get
like a here.
I am a growing man trying tofight somebody over a road rage
thing, and I'm supposed to bethe pillar of the community.
And it's like, but it was justanger.
I don't even know what it was.
It was like my whole world wasout of control.
I had control over this, and Iwas gonna make this dude pay for
it.
And it's just what and then likewhen I would leave that.
(24:13):
Luckily they never called thecops or anything, but when I'd
leave there, then I would likesnap out of it, like, what in
the world did I just do?
Like, that's not who I am.
But man, the enemy, man, he justcomes in and it as soon as you
think think you're feeling well,it's just like he just takes you
out at the knees, especiallywhen you're going through it
silently and you're not tellinganybody, um, because that's
(24:34):
where the devil likes us inmonologue, where we're keeping
things inside of our own mindwhere he can and you know he can
influence it.
But as soon as we start talkingout loud and we talk in
dialogue, now we're talking, andso I then I would start to
notice things I'd be saying outloud, like, you know, I need to
kill myself because I'm not agood enough dad.
Like when we say those thingsout loud, you hear yourself
saying it and you're like, okay,like that's not that's not true,
(24:58):
right?
That's why it's important totalk out loud with somebody, and
and for me, that's when I wasable to to to open up because I
was going through, I went for Iwas 40 years old until I opened
before I opened up, that was sixyears ago.
But once I started to open upand because I thought I was the
only one going through it, andI'm sure Jeff did too.
(25:19):
I'm sure he thought he was theonly one going through it,
because I thought I was the onlyone going through it, and I'm
sure Jin True thought she wasthe only one going through it.
Because you really do, but thenwhen you start to talk to other
to other actual other firstresponders, you realize that we
actually do connect through ourweaknesses and vulnerabilities,
it's not through our strengths.
And so many times as policeofficers, we put on our fake
toughness, our fake face.
(25:41):
Like we go to work, like when Igo to work, I was fine at work
because I could put on my fakeface, I could put on my tough
guy stuff.
It was for me when I went offduty, when I went 1042, that was
the code we used to go off duty.
That's when everything cameflooding in, and that's when I
ran to the vices like alcohol.
That's when I walked in andwalked right by my my kids and
my wife and went and got vodkaand went upstairs.
(26:05):
And that's not who I was becausewhen I had my just like when
Jeff had his badge pinned onhim, I'm sure you probably
remember that.
I guarantee you, just like justlike Jeff, just like me, when I
had that badge pinned on, it wasa great day in my life.
I never thought in 14 years, Ihope I'm addicted to hydrocotone
pills, I hope I'm an alcoholic,I hope I'm going through a
divorce, I hope I'm homelessliving out of my truck.
(26:26):
That wasn't my dream.
But this job changes you and itslowly changes you.
And when it starts to changeyou, when you're a first
responder, it's hard to knowwhere you can go to get help.
And I could imagine Jeff dealtwith that.
Is where do I go?
SPEAKER_00 (26:40):
He didn't feel like he had anywhere to go.
SPEAKER_04 (26:42):
Yeah.
Because you feel like you'regonna lose your whole life if
you speak up.
Yeah, and that's a hope, that'sa hopeless and a scary place to
be in.
It is, and for our listeners, Iplease reach out.
You don't have to go throughthis alone.
You don't.
I went through it alone for allthose years.
It's a scary place to be.
(27:02):
Please reach out if you arestruggling.
There is reaching out for help,it's not a sign of of weakness,
it's a sign of wisdom.
And you don't have to go throughthis by yourself.
And what I mean is there'speople in our organization,
ambassadors, other people whohave been through the things
you're thinking that you'rethinking inside your head.
They've been through that andthey've gotten some help and and
they want to walk alongside you.
(27:23):
And there's power in being ableto mentor somebody that's that's
going through that.
Because that would have helpedme, and imagine that would have
helped your husband if he wouldhave just had an organization or
another first responder who youknow was outside the
organization.
Just throw your arm around him,Jeff, and say, Hey, I see you're
struggling, buddy.
You don't have to go throughthis alone.
Why don't you and I go?
(27:44):
You know, we so often, gentry,we run to alcohol when we get
together.
That's why is that so accepted?
We run to alcohol when we dothat, but when you can remove
the alcohol away from andactually sit down with somebody
who gets it.
Because if Jeff and I could havesat down, we don't have to
inherently we don't have toexplain the the gross stuff and
all that stuff.
We can inherently understandeach other of like we can skip
(28:04):
all that and be like, How areyou doing?
Like, how are you really doing?
Because it's the fear of losingthe job, it's the fear of you
know, you struggle of as a ofbeing enough.
And especially as as a guy, whenyou're struggling at work and
you don't feel enough thatyou're enough at work, you start
to feel then you start to feellike you're not enough at home
as a dad and as a husband, andwhen you don't feel like you're
(28:27):
enough in those threecategories, you're a man with no
purpose, and it's pretty scary.
Um did Jeff reach out, did hetry um reaching out as far as
did he try counseling?
Did he try any of that, or washe kind of like me and just kept
it to himself?
SPEAKER_00 (28:44):
And so I'm listening to the things you're sharing,
Daniel, and there's so manythings that are resonate in the
in Jeff and my story.
And um, but Jeff, he neverreached out for counseling um
because he, like I said, hedidn't feel like he was
supported in that, that he wouldlose his job, he would lose
credibility as a lawenforcement.
(29:06):
Um and um I can tell you thatafter the incident that I
shared, that he went and um gotin got in a fight um because he
felt that that's what he needed.
Um I know he was crying out forhelp with that.
(29:27):
Um he told me that he would getcalled in by his leadership and
uh he might lose his job becauseof it, though he was off duty.
It's a reflection of the badge,right?
I mean, you're to be that personon and off duty, and um and it's
(29:50):
not okay to go beat people up orget beat up either, right?
I mean, there's other there'ssomething else that needed to
happen, but I'm talking aboutthis one situation, right?
So um His leadership did callhim in and they did have a
conversation with him.
And I can tell you when he camehome, the things he said to me
about that conversation, that hewas told uh they went over what
(30:14):
the report was, um, how it waswritten, what was said, the
things that Jeff had put in thereport, which obviously were
very cleaned up um lawenforcement speak report, right?
SPEAKER_04 (30:28):
I mean threat, adjust, yeah, like yeah, yeah,
yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:32):
Very tactical, describe you know, drove at a
higher rate of speed thannormal.
I mean, things like that.
Um, I read it and I just shookmy head when I read it because
he he was telling the truth, buthe wasn't telling everything,
right?
So um because he didn't I don'tknow, I believe that he was
(30:53):
crying out for help, but didn'tknow how to do that.
And so anyway, when he was hecame home, he told me that uh
his leadership had shared withhim that they got the report,
they went over it with him, thathe was off duty, but that it
reflects on the law enforcementagency.
Um and he's like, uh, yeah, so Imight just lose my job.
(31:19):
And he didn't just say my job.
Um he said, uh, they want me toleave this the shit at the door.
SPEAKER_04 (31:26):
There, I hit the B button.
A little too late.
SPEAKER_00 (31:32):
A little late, good job.
Um, but leave it at the door.
Um, leave it at the door of homewhen you go home.
You leave it at the door.
SPEAKER_04 (31:42):
Yeah, it's that easy.
SPEAKER_00 (31:43):
And you leave the shit at the door when you go to
work and you put your badge on.
You that's what you do.
SPEAKER_04 (31:50):
Like we have switches.
SPEAKER_00 (31:51):
Pull your pants on and just man up.
And that's what he got told.
Can can I ask a question?
They also let him know thatthere's counseling available.
SPEAKER_02 (32:00):
Oh, yeah.
Just so you know.
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:02):
I mean, it was it was put on the table, and but
the culture and gentry, andwe've talked about this a little
bit.
There is a need for culturechange, and it's not everybody,
but there are pockets of leadersthat it's very apparent that
that culture is is uh traumaticto individuals.
(32:25):
It has to change it has tochange.
It has to change.
SPEAKER_04 (32:26):
That's it has to change.
We will speak from themountaintop until it does this
can't keep happening.
Go ahead, gentry.
SPEAKER_01 (32:31):
The the one question I had was that meeting that he
had that you and I talked about.
And at any point, did any of thesupervisors or anybody look at
him just like dead in the eyeand be like, Are you okay?
Like, do you want to talk?
Do you want to have a cup ofcoffee?
Like, are you okay?
SPEAKER_00 (32:50):
So that's a really good question, Gentry.
And I can't answer that becauseI wasn't there.
Um, he never shared that withme, but I also knew my husband
really well.
And he would think that was abunch of bullshit.
He wouldn't have believed it.
Oh no.
I don't, yeah, I don't blamehim.
He knew he would tell me he hehe shared with me the people
that he knew were truly umcoming from their heart when
(33:14):
they would when they wouldsupport and everything.
Um, but he couldn't trust it.
Right.
And at that point, his the PTSDwas so complex that there was no
trust in any of that.
And then he would see thingslike from that conversation he
had with his leadership and thenwith other people that he saw.
(33:35):
And when you see things likethat, how it makes it really
difficult to trust theorganization and what they're
actually saying.
Um, it's all it's very importantto have trust in an
organization, right?
SPEAKER_04 (33:46):
Yeah, and it's it's I mean, you heard me say this
before.
I truly believe that in-househelp is fake help.
I think in-house peer support isfake help.
I know it's helped some people,um, but I think it's a it's
something that theadministrations we we they have
it so they can tell the publicthat they have it.
Um most in-house peer supportsaren't working because you can't
(34:06):
go in there and say, hey, I havea you can't be real, you can't
be real.
SPEAKER_00 (34:10):
And I yeah, I gotta say that you know there's some
of that, Daniel, that I see.
And I've talked to severalpeople since Jeff passed and
different groups, and there aregroups that it's actually it
really is real.
And but that's great.
I can tell you that they'remaking steps here in Iowa with
the organization that we're apart of.
(34:31):
Um, however, it's got a ways togo, and there's a lot of trust
and change that has to happen.
SPEAKER_04 (34:37):
Yeah, and we're not trying to throw anybody under
the bus.
We're not naming names.
We are not saying thatwhatsoever.
Like we're not, this is not abash against the state or the
administration.
We're just saying this has gotto change because we we eat our
own.
We are so hard on each other.
We just one person struggles andwe just we we boycott them, we
act like we don't know who theyare, and uh it's I think too
(34:59):
with with the in-house peersupport stuff, like because he
he felt when so many people feellike they're gonna lose their
jobs and stuff if they theyspeak out and ask for help.
SPEAKER_01 (35:09):
And I think that the the in-house stuff, the in-house
peer support organizations areso it's just so hard because you
don't that's where that feelingcomes from.
Like you feel like you're notit's not gonna be left there.
Like you leave there, yoursupervisors are all gonna know
what you're going through,everything.
SPEAKER_04 (35:25):
And so it just well, because you know it everybody
just talks, you know, and it'sdifferent when you're and I I I
encourage people to go to yourin-house peer support.
It helps people, but I'm justsaying that what I tell people
is if that's if that's the onlyone thing, if you're only gonna
reach out one time and it andyou reach out and it's it's
in-house peer support, pleasedon't let that be the last time
(35:46):
you reach out.
If that doesn't work, that'sokay, and it's kind of normal.
Um but there's otherorganizations like ours that
have we're outside peer supportorganization where when we talk
it's you know 100% confidentialand it's nobody is in the room
that's trying to get promotedover you or anything like that.
So it can be tough.
SPEAKER_00 (36:03):
And it's so important to have more than just
a peer support though in aprogram.
You have to have you have tohave the ability to build
resilience and have thatwellness physically an outlet
for all that to get those, and Italked about it before, cortisol
levels into a healthy range.
Yeah.
Because otherwise it's causesscarring and it is harder and
(36:25):
harder to get back.
SPEAKER_04 (36:26):
It is.
It's ugly.
So let's go ahead and close outthis episode and we're gonna do
another episode with Lindy andwe're gonna talk about um your
husband's death and we'll kindof go over that because we need
I wanna I just want to we needto be able to have this
(36:48):
conversation because I know thatthere's a lot you want to share
from your journey and and um thescary dark time that um luckily
you had God through, it soundslike I did, and uh so we'll jump
into that a little bit on thenext episode.
Um but thanks for tuning in,guys.
Um we're gonna stay out here atthe ranch and record another
one, so next week will be thepart two of this episode.
(37:10):
So thanks for tuning in, andwe'll see you next week.
Welcome back to another episode of the Shared
Voices Podcast.
Thanks for joining us.
We're back out at the ranch.
Gentry's out here today.
What's up, Gentry?
SPEAKER_01 (00:08):
Not much, boss, man.
SPEAKER_04 (00:09):
What a beautiful day.
Man.
The ranch, it's uh, what is it,70 degrees, sunny?
You gotta love this time ofyear.
But we came back out to theranch because we have a special
interview today.
Uh Gentry lined this up.
Gentry's is is running and thengonna be in charge of the
podcast stuff and setting upinterviews and all that.
Um, so she set this interview upand I'm really excited about it.
Today we have on Lindy Brown.
(00:32):
And she's coming on to talkabout something that you've
heard us talk about on thispodcast several times.
Um, when we talk aboutdepression and suicide.
Um, we have a special guest heretoday who is the wife of an Iowa
State trooper who took his life,and she wants to come on here
today and tell her story, andwith the impact of our listeners
(00:56):
to be able to hear hear her sideof it.
I mean, not her side of it, tohear what the wisdom that she's
learned through this and theroad she's gone through because
it's been a it's been a longhard road.
But she wants to be able toshare that, especially for first
responders that may be dealingwith this in the future, whose
spouses may be going through it,and we are just so proud of her
for showing up.
(01:17):
She drove two hours to get here.
She could have done it online,but she chose to drive two hours
because she wanted to do it inperson.
So we're blessed to have herhere.
So, Lindy, thank you for drivingall the way here.
SPEAKER_00 (01:27):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04 (01:28):
By the Cedar Rapids area.
Yep.
So I just met you.
We had a really greatconversation, and I'm so glad
you're here.
And if I can be honest with you,I don't normally get like a
little nervous when I record,but this one's really it's I'm
not nervous, but we're gonna godeep here for a little bit and
talk about um talk about somethings that we need to talk
(01:52):
about.
Absolutely.
I don't know if you know much ofmy story, but I was only in law
enforcement for 14 years.
And by the 14th year, I wasalcoholic, addicted to pain
pills, suicidal.
Um, asked my wife for a divorce,started shedding my family
because I was trying to killmyself.
Uh I'd get off of work and justgo up to my my bathroom and sit
(02:14):
inside the the bathtub withclothes on, with no water in it,
um, just to contain the bloodfor my suicide because I didn't
want to make a mess.
So I'd sit there and sit insidethe tub with my bottle of
hydrocodone pills, popping asmany pills as I could, drinking
vodka, uh, playing with myservice weapon, putting it in my
mouth, trying to kill myself.
Um led to a lot of dark dayslike that.
(02:38):
My body would vomit up the pillsand I'd pick them up, put them
back in, my whole thing.
I just want to die, even thoughI was a father of three.
I didn't want to live, I didn'tfeel worthy.
I went down that I went downthat road and it's a miracle I'm
here.
I don't know.
I mean, I guess I do know whyI'm here.
Um because God turns pain intopurpose, and I think that's why
you're here today.
Yes, he does.
(02:59):
So why don't you tell us alittle bit about why you're here
today and why uh why you thinkit's important to be able to use
your voice.
This is called the Shared VoicesPodcast.
Why it's important to use yourvoice.
SPEAKER_00 (03:12):
Well, about two and a half years ago, I felt called
to use my voice.
Um, because I believe that Godputs us in situations and has us
go through difficult times sothat we can share those
experiences of how he helped usovercome it so that we can help
heal other people and give themhope and show God's love to
(03:33):
them.
SPEAKER_04 (03:34):
Yeah.
Well, that's uh I couldn'timagine being able to sit down
right now and to be able to dothis interview.
You lost your husband.
SPEAKER_00 (03:44):
I did.
SPEAKER_04 (03:44):
You lost your husband to suicide, and he was a
he was an Iowa state trooper.
SPEAKER_00 (03:49):
Yes.
SPEAKER_04 (03:50):
And so if you don't mind, let's just let's kind of
talk about that a little bit.
Because so many of our spouses,when they walk out that door,
they don't know if their spouseis coming home.
Right.
And they worry about it, andthen time after time the spouse
comes home, but then there's aday um where they don't come
home or they come home andthey're just not the same.
Um yeah.
(04:11):
So how long did Jeff have on?
So tell us a little bit aboutJeff.
Tell us about this this amazingman that you were married to.
SPEAKER_00 (04:16):
Right.
So Jeff um had always wanted toserve and he served in on
military.
He also served in lawenforcement and had a drive to
just be there for people andtake care of people.
Um he started with IowaDepartment of Publix Public
Safety in the um DCI.
(04:38):
And then he moved over totroopers.
Um, he was in uh with thetroopers for a while, a long
time.
So um yeah, but talking aboutlike what you're saying is you
know, looking back.
Um and when I did uh thedocument information for the
PSOB, I can see because you haveto do a statement of like a
(05:03):
personal statement for it, andum documenting the situations
that he shared with me duringthe five years leading up to him
passing.
Just was like uh just a snowballof things.
Um so we had moved out onto uhAcreage and um things were going
(05:27):
really great.
Girls were in a new school andum just getting things around as
far as you know, building a lifeout there together.
And he moved to State Patrol andhe loved it.
Um it was exactly what like yousee, like the pride and just
being able to support the othertroopers, and it was definitely
(05:49):
it's definitely a brotherhood.
And it's amazing the brotherhoodthat's there, how they take care
of each other.
So um, you know, things don'thappen overnight.
SPEAKER_04 (06:03):
Yeah, you said five years, so can we let's go back
to that if you don't mindbecause you know it was in 2020
when I uh the last time I wentto kill myself and when God put
this whole mission of starting1042 on on um on my heart.
Um at the time there was justreally nothing.
Um I'm losing my train ofthought.
(06:25):
I knew this is gonna happen.
I'm gonna get emotional so muchduring this stuff, so it's all
good.
I know.
Um, what was I saying?
SPEAKER_01 (06:32):
The five years that you're talking about.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (06:34):
Go ahead.
You go ahead, start off.
SPEAKER_01 (06:36):
No, I was just gonna say, when did you you start to
notice like a shift?
SPEAKER_04 (06:41):
Yeah, like was it like a he so he went to work one
day and came home different?
Or it's a slow I always tellpeople it's a slow burn.
SPEAKER_00 (06:47):
It is a slow, painful burn.
Yes.
And so what I saw, like he wouldcome home after a shift and have
a really hard night.
Um, he started using alcoholmore um as a coping mechanism
when he got off work.
Um, but it wasn't always that,it was sometimes just being not
(07:12):
present at home.
Yeah.
Either not present at home whenhe was there or not present,
period.
Like he would go and help otherpeople, like to take his mind
out of that space from his work.
And and it's interesting becauselooking back, I can see how he
was trying to protect me and ourdaughters from what was going on
(07:36):
in him, in his head.
Um and plus just family life andthe regular things that would
happen in a family were withwhat was going on at work and
him not having the coping skillsto take care of the higher
cortisol levels in his head andthe mental wellness checks um
(07:59):
that needed to happen daily umwere would cause him to then be
angry and uh very difficult tolive with at home because the
stresses of just normal lifefelt like they were so
threatening to him.
(08:19):
So threatening.
Everything was so threatening.
Yeah.
So even like COVID happened,right?
For everybody, shutdown happenedand um they were the guys had to
be on the road still, eventhough you know there was the
threat of like sharing COVID andall the stuff, right?
They're still making trafficstops.
(08:41):
So there was that ingrained fearin society, right?
We're just gonna put it thatway.
Um, but then he would come homeand the girls would have had to
mask up for school, and um, theythen closed school down.
So my oldest daughter was in heruh senior year, and um they it
(09:04):
was before prom happened thatthey closed school.
So we chose to have um severalparents and I chose to have prom
out at our farm.
And so collaboratively we gottogether and somebody brought a
DJ equipment, somebody brought atent, right?
And somebody broughtphotography.
It was amazing.
And during that time, whichshould have been super
(09:26):
celebratory.
Um Jeff had been going throughso much with work, and I had
seen the change in him, and I'mkind of getting ahead of myself
and my story because this is umjust seven months before he
passed.
Um, he came in when I was doingthe girls' hair, and he was just
(09:47):
acting very strange, like hewanted my attention.
Um, but at that point, I waslike, I need to focus on the
girls.
This is their day.
We should be excited for them,right?
My youngest wasn't old enough tobe in high school, but she got
invited to go to the seniorprom, right?
And so both of them, it was justlike this excitement, but he had
a drink and he's like, I'mtaking off.
(10:08):
And he um, I believe that he hadto work, it was the next day or
that night.
But he took off and he had ahard alcohol drink he took with
him.
And um I don't know where hewent.
And frankly, I was in a mindsetthat I was like, just go.
Right, just go.
(10:29):
This isn't about you today, justgo.
And um, because sometimes theenergy that's brought with that
is um it just takes the life outof everything, and it affects
the entire family and the kids.
And so I was go.
And so he came back, it wasprobably an hour.
(10:50):
He came back and he stood in thedoorway to the bathroom, and he
um I looked over at him and hehad blood off of his lip and he
was he looked beat up.
Like he didn't have bruising,but he looked beat up.
And I just looked at him and I'mlike, what have you been doing?
What's going on?
(11:10):
And he goes, Well, I went and Iwent and got the shit kick it
kicked out of me and I deservedit.
And I was like, what?
He goes, I went looking for afight and I deserved it.
And I just I could not believewhat was going on.
It's like what what in the worldis going on?
(11:33):
Because that's not your husbandright now.
No, yeah, that's not yourhusband.
It was totally different person.
It was so weird.
And um, I was I just looked athim like okay, well, you don't
have a concussion.
You're gonna have to hold on aminute.
I was getting ready to take thegirls to the neighbors because
(11:53):
they were gonna have the dinner.
And so I left and he goes, Well,just so you know.
And he all of a sudden switchedinto very logical brain, just
boom.
And he goes, just so you know,there's gonna be police here,
I'm pretty sure when you getback.
And I said, Okay, why what?
And he goes, Well, there wereseveral young men involved in
(12:15):
this situation, and I'm prettysure that they called the police
and they're gonna come and get astatement from me.
And I I left, I went and I waslike, okay, whatever you need to
deal with.
I'm like, I just want you toknow you're you're putting your
job at risk, and I don'tunderstand what's going on right
now.
So I came back and yep, therewere officers in my house.
(12:38):
And I walked in and Jeff waswriting out a report, like, not
unlike I've ever seen him writea report, right?
I mean, he just writes thereport like he needs to write a
report, like it was a regularday.
And um, they took him out on theoutside the house and they took
pictures because the people thathe got in a fight with um got
(13:02):
him on the ground and theyactually, you know, broke a
bottle over the back of hishead.
And um a good Samaritan camethrough this backwoods like
waterway where they were at,because these people go down
there and party and stuff.
And a good Samaritan happened tocome through, which I know God
sent them and stopped the fightand got Jeff up.
(13:24):
Um he doesn't know who it was,and I know that's that's who it
was.
So um, anyway, they took thereport and I introduced myself
to them.
And Jeff was like, This is mywife, Lindy, and they took the
report, and I just was standingin the kitchen going, somebody
just asked me one question.
(13:46):
How often, and how normal is itreally?
I'm gonna get a little sarcasticbecause I've been around
officers and my husband was anofficer for a long time.
And how normal is it that youhave to go get a statement from
someone that is in in lawenforcement that went out and
got in a fight?
Yeah, and it's not normal.
(14:07):
There's nothing normal about it.
And no one asked a question.
And I was just in the kitchen,like somebody, I'm just like in
their presence, like somebodyjust asked me one thing.
I just wanna I wanna ask aquestion.
I don't care what kind ofdifficulties it's gonna cause in
my marriage, I just say it.
(14:28):
Nobody said anything, and so itthat's what happened then.
Um, and I have more to talkabout with that later on, about
the effects of that um with howit was handled in in within his
uh department.
So that's in for another part ofthe conversation, but there were
(14:50):
so many times that he would comehome and share with me um
something that happened uh whenhe was on duty.
Um and it became more that hewasn't able to sleep well.
Um he was trying to medicatewith alcohol.
Um I started asking him when itfirst started, and it didn't
(15:12):
feel like he was getting answersum like with his within himself
and his people that he washanging out with.
I started asking him if he wouldgo to a counselor.
And he told me no, he couldn't.
He couldn't go because it wouldaffect his job.
And I couldn't understand thatbecause my work, which was also
(15:34):
uh a company that I worked for,was very pro-wellness.
And he told me that he couldlose his job.
Um, if not lose his job, hewould lose his credibility
because they would say that hewasn't fit to work because he
was not able to handlesituations, which as things
happened over the next couple ofyears, just the the logic of
(15:59):
that was so uh paramount for mebecause um a couple times.
So let me tell you about one ofthe situations.
Um so he responded to a call.
Uh there was another trooperalready there, but he responded
to a call that there was a uhman versus semi uh suicide, and
(16:24):
it was uh a thunderstorm thatwas on one of the interstates,
and uh the man had parked hisvehicle on the other side of the
road and walked across the mediaand knelt in front of a semi.
Well, the semi-driver couldn'tsee him because of all the rain
and uh it eviscerated the manand uh Jeff shared with me that
(16:48):
uh this is at like three o'clockin the morning because he
usually got off shift and camehome and went to bed about one.
But when he came to bed thatnight, he wasn't able to sleep
and he didn't wake me up.
I could feel him, I could feelthe stress and the disquiet in
him.
(17:09):
And it woke me up and I'm like,hey, are you okay?
And he said, No, I'm really notokay.
And I had a really bad night,and I'm like, you want to talk
about it?
And that's when he shared thatwith me.
He shared with me that uh he wasresponsible for uh walking the
(17:29):
interstate and picking up littlepieces of that human, that
person that no longer is with usand putting them and he said,
and he goes picking them up andcollecting it, and I said, Okay,
so and I'm trying to get him totalk about it, but I don't know
(17:50):
what to say.
And I'm like, so did you havelike a body bag or something?
Like like something that 'causeI know he he was so respectful
of like he truly loved peoplestopped and got really angry and
(18:18):
he said no.
I had to put him in a fivegallon bucket.
That was Yeah, that was reallythere was so much about that
that just uh, you know, brokehim.
SPEAKER_04 (18:38):
No human is meant to face that to deal with that much
drama.
SPEAKER_00 (18:41):
And I have to share that, that um that's something
I've been saying for a longtime, Daniel.
No one, no matter what kind oftraining you go through in the
academy as a law enforcementofficer, and you do your duty,
you stop people, you have thoseconversations, you take care of
(19:02):
all these difficult situations.
No one can ever be trained tohandle that kind of situation.
SPEAKER_04 (19:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:13):
No one.
SPEAKER_04 (19:14):
No one and then but we act like we're supposed to be
able to handle it.
SPEAKER_00 (19:19):
Everyone that isn't doesn't know what it the job is
about believes that they don'teven know.
But they do they believe whatthey they don't know what they
don't know, right?
That's it.
And so it's like, oh yeah,they're taking care of their
job, they're doing the amazingthings, go, go, go, right.
And it's like all thisadrenaline and go, and uh, and
(19:40):
truly there's all these otherthings that are going on that
affect people so deeply.
And um, but it is part of thejob, and it's uh it's real.
SPEAKER_04 (19:53):
It is, and you can ignore it.
That's the thing.
Gentry is when we try to when wewe're dealing with like like for
me, I just kept silent for allthose years.
And it just led to addictions,and that's why that's like what
our organization does, there'spower and community, there's
power and talking like we'redoing right now.
SPEAKER_01 (20:09):
Yes, there is.
SPEAKER_04 (20:10):
I mean, it matters.
SPEAKER_01 (20:12):
One question I have is um that incident that you're
just talking about, how long didbetween the time that he
committed suicide and that, howmuch time was there in between?
SPEAKER_00 (20:23):
I'm not sure.
I think that was a that waswithin that five-year time
frame.
It was a couple years before.
But when we look back at thereport, the reports that were
pulled of the just thesituations that he told me
about.
Because unfortunately, thesystem that's used for the
reports is very archaic.
(20:44):
Like there's not a really goodway to pull incidences because
someone may have been involvedin an incident, but there's no
way to pull it because someoneelse wrote the report.
Um, you would have to knowspecifically where it happened
and that to actually mine thatdata out.
So I'm just so thankful to Godthat he allowed me to hear those
(21:09):
situations to use my voice thisway because uh it wasn't
something that he talked aboutto anybody.
Like that incident, he only toldto his very close, two of his
close friends about it.
Yeah.
Or three.
So um yeah, but there whenlooking at the reports, there
(21:30):
were it was uh multitudes, likejust monthly of not just regular
traffic stops or but but onesthat are trauma that are
identified by the federalgovernment as traumatic cases.
Right, it wasn't just multipledeaths and things like that.
So um, yeah, reporting like heum responded to a girl that was
(21:56):
um that had um attempted suicideum off of the in an over over
overpass.
Um she was my girls' age.
And so it was very hard.
I mean it's hard anyway, butit's like hits differently
(22:16):
because it's very close towhat's going on in his life.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (22:20):
Um so uh when Jeff passed, how old were the how old
were the girls?
SPEAKER_00 (22:26):
Um my oldest was 18 and my youngest was 15.
SPEAKER_04 (22:32):
So was that incident with the with the fight?
Was that the first time yourealized or was that the first
big event where you're like,whoa, like this is not my
husband.
SPEAKER_00 (22:41):
So that was yeah, that was a really big, um, huge
anger was my what in the world.
But he actually had startedbecoming very angry, uh, very
volatile about the thisminuscule family things that are
just for me as a as a mom, it'slike, okay, that could just be a
(23:02):
teaching opportunity.
Um, but going from zero to youknow 360 in a matter of just
like a second, just boom, itwould just flip.
And like he would be in a greatmood, and everybody's getting
along in the house, and all of asudden the energy would change,
and it could just be a word, itcould just be a look that
(23:23):
somebody had, and just it wouldflip that uh PTSD switch, and um
yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (23:29):
And it does, it comes out of nowhere.
Sometimes it comes like when youthink you're doing the best, or
sometimes it comes after youthink you're doing good, and
then all of a sudden, man, itjust comes out of nowhere.
Yeah, anger, like I think I saidthis before, but road rage was a
big thing for me.
When I literally, when I was offduty, like somebody would cut in
front of me.
I would I'd go, I'd drive anhour if I had to to find to
(23:51):
follow them to their house andconfront them and try to get
like a here.
I am a growing man trying tofight somebody over a road rage
thing, and I'm supposed to bethe pillar of the community.
And it's like, but it was justanger.
I don't even know what it was.
It was like my whole world wasout of control.
I had control over this, and Iwas gonna make this dude pay for
it.
And it's just what and then likewhen I would leave that.
(24:13):
Luckily they never called thecops or anything, but when I'd
leave there, then I would likesnap out of it, like, what in
the world did I just do?
Like, that's not who I am.
But man, the enemy, man, he justcomes in and it as soon as you
think think you're feeling well,it's just like he just takes you
out at the knees, especiallywhen you're going through it
silently and you're not tellinganybody, um, because that's
(24:34):
where the devil likes us inmonologue, where we're keeping
things inside of our own mindwhere he can and you know he can
influence it.
But as soon as we start talkingout loud and we talk in
dialogue, now we're talking, andso I then I would start to
notice things I'd be saying outloud, like, you know, I need to
kill myself because I'm not agood enough dad.
Like when we say those thingsout loud, you hear yourself
saying it and you're like, okay,like that's not that's not true,
(24:58):
right?
That's why it's important totalk out loud with somebody, and
and for me, that's when I wasable to to to open up because I
was going through, I went for Iwas 40 years old until I opened
before I opened up, that was sixyears ago.
But once I started to open upand because I thought I was the
only one going through it, andI'm sure Jeff did too.
(25:19):
I'm sure he thought he was theonly one going through it,
because I thought I was the onlyone going through it, and I'm
sure Jin True thought she wasthe only one going through it.
Because you really do, but thenwhen you start to talk to other
to other actual other firstresponders, you realize that we
actually do connect through ourweaknesses and vulnerabilities,
it's not through our strengths.
And so many times as policeofficers, we put on our fake
toughness, our fake face.
(25:41):
Like we go to work, like when Igo to work, I was fine at work
because I could put on my fakeface, I could put on my tough
guy stuff.
It was for me when I went offduty, when I went 1042, that was
the code we used to go off duty.
That's when everything cameflooding in, and that's when I
ran to the vices like alcohol.
That's when I walked in andwalked right by my my kids and
my wife and went and got vodkaand went upstairs.
(26:05):
And that's not who I was becausewhen I had my just like when
Jeff had his badge pinned onhim, I'm sure you probably
remember that.
I guarantee you, just like justlike Jeff, just like me, when I
had that badge pinned on, it wasa great day in my life.
I never thought in 14 years, Ihope I'm addicted to hydrocotone
pills, I hope I'm an alcoholic,I hope I'm going through a
divorce, I hope I'm homelessliving out of my truck.
(26:26):
That wasn't my dream.
But this job changes you and itslowly changes you.
And when it starts to changeyou, when you're a first
responder, it's hard to knowwhere you can go to get help.
And I could imagine Jeff dealtwith that.
Is where do I go?
SPEAKER_00 (26:40):
He didn't feel like he had anywhere to go.
SPEAKER_04 (26:42):
Yeah.
Because you feel like you'regonna lose your whole life if
you speak up.
Yeah, and that's a hope, that'sa hopeless and a scary place to
be in.
It is, and for our listeners, Iplease reach out.
You don't have to go throughthis alone.
You don't.
I went through it alone for allthose years.
It's a scary place to be.
(27:02):
Please reach out if you arestruggling.
There is reaching out for help,it's not a sign of of weakness,
it's a sign of wisdom.
And you don't have to go throughthis by yourself.
And what I mean is there'speople in our organization,
ambassadors, other people whohave been through the things
you're thinking that you'rethinking inside your head.
They've been through that andthey've gotten some help and and
they want to walk alongside you.
(27:23):
And there's power in being ableto mentor somebody that's that's
going through that.
Because that would have helpedme, and imagine that would have
helped your husband if he wouldhave just had an organization or
another first responder who youknow was outside the
organization.
Just throw your arm around him,Jeff, and say, Hey, I see you're
struggling, buddy.
You don't have to go throughthis alone.
Why don't you and I go?
(27:44):
You know, we so often, gentry,we run to alcohol when we get
together.
That's why is that so accepted?
We run to alcohol when we dothat, but when you can remove
the alcohol away from andactually sit down with somebody
who gets it.
Because if Jeff and I could havesat down, we don't have to
inherently we don't have toexplain the the gross stuff and
all that stuff.
We can inherently understandeach other of like we can skip
(28:04):
all that and be like, How areyou doing?
Like, how are you really doing?
Because it's the fear of losingthe job, it's the fear of you
know, you struggle of as a ofbeing enough.
And especially as as a guy, whenyou're struggling at work and
you don't feel enough thatyou're enough at work, you start
to feel then you start to feellike you're not enough at home
as a dad and as a husband, andwhen you don't feel like you're
(28:27):
enough in those threecategories, you're a man with no
purpose, and it's pretty scary.
Um did Jeff reach out, did hetry um reaching out as far as
did he try counseling?
Did he try any of that, or washe kind of like me and just kept
it to himself?
SPEAKER_00 (28:44):
And so I'm listening to the things you're sharing,
Daniel, and there's so manythings that are resonate in the
in Jeff and my story.
And um, but Jeff, he neverreached out for counseling um
because he, like I said, hedidn't feel like he was
supported in that, that he wouldlose his job, he would lose
credibility as a lawenforcement.
(29:06):
Um and um I can tell you thatafter the incident that I
shared, that he went and um gotin got in a fight um because he
felt that that's what he needed.
Um I know he was crying out forhelp with that.
(29:27):
Um he told me that he would getcalled in by his leadership and
uh he might lose his job becauseof it, though he was off duty.
It's a reflection of the badge,right?
I mean, you're to be that personon and off duty, and um and it's
(29:50):
not okay to go beat people up orget beat up either, right?
I mean, there's other there'ssomething else that needed to
happen, but I'm talking aboutthis one situation, right?
So um His leadership did callhim in and they did have a
conversation with him.
And I can tell you when he camehome, the things he said to me
about that conversation, that hewas told uh they went over what
(30:14):
the report was, um, how it waswritten, what was said, the
things that Jeff had put in thereport, which obviously were
very cleaned up um lawenforcement speak report, right?
SPEAKER_04 (30:28):
I mean threat, adjust, yeah, like yeah, yeah,
yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:32):
Very tactical, describe you know, drove at a
higher rate of speed thannormal.
I mean, things like that.
Um, I read it and I just shookmy head when I read it because
he he was telling the truth, buthe wasn't telling everything,
right?
So um because he didn't I don'tknow, I believe that he was
(30:53):
crying out for help, but didn'tknow how to do that.
And so anyway, when he was hecame home, he told me that uh
his leadership had shared withhim that they got the report,
they went over it with him, thathe was off duty, but that it
reflects on the law enforcementagency.
Um and he's like, uh, yeah, so Imight just lose my job.
(31:19):
And he didn't just say my job.
Um he said, uh, they want me toleave this the shit at the door.
SPEAKER_04 (31:26):
There, I hit the B button.
A little too late.
SPEAKER_00 (31:32):
A little late, good job.
Um, but leave it at the door.
Um, leave it at the door of homewhen you go home.
You leave it at the door.
SPEAKER_04 (31:42):
Yeah, it's that easy.
SPEAKER_00 (31:43):
And you leave the shit at the door when you go to
work and you put your badge on.
You that's what you do.
SPEAKER_04 (31:50):
Like we have switches.
SPEAKER_00 (31:51):
Pull your pants on and just man up.
And that's what he got told.
Can can I ask a question?
They also let him know thatthere's counseling available.
SPEAKER_02 (32:00):
Oh, yeah.
Just so you know.
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:02):
I mean, it was it was put on the table, and but
the culture and gentry, andwe've talked about this a little
bit.
There is a need for culturechange, and it's not everybody,
but there are pockets of leadersthat it's very apparent that
that culture is is uh traumaticto individuals.
(32:25):
It has to change it has tochange.
It has to change.
SPEAKER_04 (32:26):
That's it has to change.
We will speak from themountaintop until it does this
can't keep happening.
Go ahead, gentry.
SPEAKER_01 (32:31):
The the one question I had was that meeting that he
had that you and I talked about.
And at any point, did any of thesupervisors or anybody look at
him just like dead in the eyeand be like, Are you okay?
Like, do you want to talk?
Do you want to have a cup ofcoffee?
Like, are you okay?
SPEAKER_00 (32:50):
So that's a really good question, Gentry.
And I can't answer that becauseI wasn't there.
Um, he never shared that withme, but I also knew my husband
really well.
And he would think that was abunch of bullshit.
He wouldn't have believed it.
Oh no.
I don't, yeah, I don't blamehim.
He knew he would tell me he hehe shared with me the people
that he knew were truly umcoming from their heart when
(33:14):
they would when they wouldsupport and everything.
Um, but he couldn't trust it.
Right.
And at that point, his the PTSDwas so complex that there was no
trust in any of that.
And then he would see thingslike from that conversation he
had with his leadership and thenwith other people that he saw.
(33:35):
And when you see things likethat, how it makes it really
difficult to trust theorganization and what they're
actually saying.
Um, it's all it's very importantto have trust in an
organization, right?
SPEAKER_04 (33:46):
Yeah, and it's it's I mean, you heard me say this
before.
I truly believe that in-househelp is fake help.
I think in-house peer support isfake help.
I know it's helped some people,um, but I think it's a it's
something that theadministrations we we they have
it so they can tell the publicthat they have it.
Um most in-house peer supportsaren't working because you can't
(34:06):
go in there and say, hey, I havea you can't be real, you can't
be real.
SPEAKER_00 (34:10):
And I yeah, I gotta say that you know there's some
of that, Daniel, that I see.
And I've talked to severalpeople since Jeff passed and
different groups, and there aregroups that it's actually it
really is real.
And but that's great.
I can tell you that they'remaking steps here in Iowa with
the organization that we're apart of.
(34:31):
Um, however, it's got a ways togo, and there's a lot of trust
and change that has to happen.
SPEAKER_04 (34:37):
Yeah, and we're not trying to throw anybody under
the bus.
We're not naming names.
We are not saying thatwhatsoever.
Like we're not, this is not abash against the state or the
administration.
We're just saying this has gotto change because we we eat our
own.
We are so hard on each other.
We just one person struggles andwe just we we boycott them, we
act like we don't know who theyare, and uh it's I think too
(34:59):
with with the in-house peersupport stuff, like because he
he felt when so many people feellike they're gonna lose their
jobs and stuff if they theyspeak out and ask for help.
SPEAKER_01 (35:09):
And I think that the the in-house stuff, the in-house
peer support organizations areso it's just so hard because you
don't that's where that feelingcomes from.
Like you feel like you're notit's not gonna be left there.
Like you leave there, yoursupervisors are all gonna know
what you're going through,everything.
SPEAKER_04 (35:25):
And so it just well, because you know it everybody
just talks, you know, and it'sdifferent when you're and I I I
encourage people to go to yourin-house peer support.
It helps people, but I'm justsaying that what I tell people
is if that's if that's the onlyone thing, if you're only gonna
reach out one time and it andyou reach out and it's it's
in-house peer support, pleasedon't let that be the last time
(35:46):
you reach out.
If that doesn't work, that'sokay, and it's kind of normal.
Um but there's otherorganizations like ours that
have we're outside peer supportorganization where when we talk
it's you know 100% confidentialand it's nobody is in the room
that's trying to get promotedover you or anything like that.
So it can be tough.
SPEAKER_00 (36:03):
And it's so important to have more than just
a peer support though in aprogram.
You have to have you have tohave the ability to build
resilience and have thatwellness physically an outlet
for all that to get those, and Italked about it before, cortisol
levels into a healthy range.
Yeah.
Because otherwise it's causesscarring and it is harder and
(36:25):
harder to get back.
SPEAKER_04 (36:26):
It is.
It's ugly.
So let's go ahead and close outthis episode and we're gonna do
another episode with Lindy andwe're gonna talk about um your
husband's death and we'll kindof go over that because we need
I wanna I just want to we needto be able to have this
(36:48):
conversation because I know thatthere's a lot you want to share
from your journey and and um thescary dark time that um luckily
you had God through, it soundslike I did, and uh so we'll jump
into that a little bit on thenext episode.
Um but thanks for tuning in,guys.
Um we're gonna stay out here atthe ranch and record another
one, so next week will be thepart two of this episode.
(37:10):
So thanks for tuning in, andwe'll see you next week.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Are You A Charlotte?
In 1997, actress Kristin Davis’ life was forever changed when she took on the role of Charlotte York in Sex and the City. As we watched Carrie, Samantha, Miranda and Charlotte navigate relationships in NYC, the show helped push once unacceptable conversation topics out of the shadows and altered the narrative around women and sex. We all saw ourselves in them as they searched for fulfillment in life, sex and friendships. Now, Kristin Davis wants to connect with you, the fans, and share untold stories and all the behind the scenes. Together, with Kristin and special guests, what will begin with Sex and the City will evolve into talks about themes that are still so relevant today. "Are you a Charlotte?" is much more than just rewatching this beloved show, it brings the past and the present together as we talk with heart, humor and of course some optimism.