November 4, 2025 • 37 mins
The most honest conversations about culture don’t start with policy; they start with people. Assistant Director Sherry Poole and instructors Brooke McPherson and Naimah Saadiq invite us inside the Iowa Law Enforcement Academy to talk about what it really takes for women to thrive in a profession that’s been male‑dominated for decades. From day‑one nerves to front‑of‑room leadership, they share how visibility, mentorship, and clear boundaries change the learning environment and, ultimately, the way officers show up for their communities.
Sherry traces the distance from 1987, when being a woman at the academy felt isolating, to today’s growing representation. Brooke unpacks the subtle biases that still show up in training and on calls: the “I’ve got this” takeover, the “don’t strain yourself” babying, and how both can stall growth. Naimah explains the power of mindset, class leadership, and role models who make room for the human side of the job: uniforms that need to fit real bodies, instruction that respects anatomy and recovery, and a safe place to ask questions that once felt off‑limits.
We also get candid about motherhood, pregnancy, and policy. What does fair light duty look like when a pregnant sergeant is stripped of her title? How do two‑officer households juggle court dates, overnight shifts, and childcare without burning out? The team offers practical fixes, protect rank on light duty, budget for gear changes without shame, normalize pumping and recovery, build formal mentorship, and a reframe on coping that goes beyond alcohol to fitness, creativity, and community. If you care about officer wellness, de‑escalation, and retention, this is the blueprint for change that actually sticks.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
Welcome back to another episode of the Shared
Voices Podcast brought to you bythe 1042 Project.
And we are still at the Academy.
They haven't kicked me out yet.
So we're good right now.
We got we got two interviewsdone, and I really think they
were impactful.
I was really impressed with theopenness of all of you guys and
the staff here and the and theleadership here to be willing to
(00:24):
talk.
I think that's pretty cool.
And uh so if you didn't get tocheck out the last two episodes
of the since we've been at theacademy, go back and check those
out.
Um this one's gonna be a fun onetoo.
I wanted to bring in a differentaspect that I unfortunately
cannot speak to, and that'sokay.
I am a male, and in this line ofwork, um the female side brings
(00:45):
different challenges to it thathonestly some of us guys don't
even understand or know.
So I'm not gonna pretend to knowwhat you guys go through.
I've worked with a lot offemales throughout my career.
Um amazing, uh I mean, workedwith some amazing women.
But is even though how you knowhow well I got to know them and
got to see them work throughouttheir careers and how they
(01:06):
handled themselves, I I stilldon't know what it was gonna go,
what it was like.
So um so number one, let's juststart with introductions and
then we're gonna go there.
I got so many questions that aregoing through my head right now.
Um, so let's just start off withthe assistant director.
SPEAKER_03 (01:21):
Uh hi, I'm Sherry Poole, and I'm the assistant
director here at ILEA.
SPEAKER_00 (01:25):
Thank you for allowing us to come in.
Yeah.
You are part of the commandstaff here.
Yep.
And and I love how you guys leadthis place and you see it
through your staff.
SPEAKER_03 (01:34):
Yeah, for sure.
Uh, we're very lucky to workalongside them.
I don't feel like we're atop-down organization.
I think we lead within, andthat's uh a mark of a good
police officer or somebody inservice leadership.
SPEAKER_00 (01:47):
Well, I think that's pretty cool.
You guys are very relationalhere.
I think that's kind of neat.
You care about the person.
Yeah, literally, you guys are inthe people business.
Yep.
And you do it well.
Yes.
And I know it's hard because wedeal with hard things.
People come here and sometimesthey don't make it through the
academies.
There's different struggles,relationship issues, things
happen.
Um I love that you guys areaddressing it and and are being
(02:08):
open and allowing, you know,that you're allowing these
people a safe place to starttheir career where they can
start, you know, meeting withour or us and start addressing
some of these issues they havecoming into their career that
they're not carrying in.
Um and to talk about how to havehealthy relationships and all
that.
So thank you for doing that.
Um, I know that's intentional,that's not just something by
(02:29):
accident that happens out here,and and I appreciate that.
Yeah.
All right, we got three guestshere, so let's go ahead and
introduce the second one.
She's just over here smiling, alittle nervous, but she got a
big old smile on her face.
SPEAKER_01 (02:40):
Good morning.
SPEAKER_00 (02:41):
Morning.
SPEAKER_01 (02:41):
My name is Brooke McPherson.
I am a general instructor at theIowa Law Enforcement Academy.
SPEAKER_00 (02:46):
General instructor.
So does that mean that you, is ageneral instructor mean that you
just kind of fill in everywhere?
Not really fill in, but youteach more than one thing?
Or what so what is that role?
Do we have specific roles hereat the academy?
SPEAKER_01 (03:00):
I do teach some classes.
Um, and then I help kind oflayer so with other instruction.
Um there's a lot of hands ondeck some in some of those uh
areas like drivers training anddefensive tactics.
So I will uh be present and umkind of oversee or or or watch
(03:25):
to make sure that the recruitsare are getting things.
SPEAKER_00 (03:28):
Yeah, that's awesome.
How long have you been here?
You're new, aren't you?
I am.
I'll take it.
I don't know if I've seen youout here.
SPEAKER_01 (03:34):
No, this is my first official uh session.
SPEAKER_00 (03:39):
Welcome.
Thank you.
I'm so glad you're here.
Thank you.
I mean, this the instructorroles out here are not just
positions that anybody justfeels like it's a calling.
You have to have a calling onyour life to do what you guys
do, and I thank you for that.
Were you ever a first responder?
SPEAKER_01 (03:53):
Yes, I worked at the Ames Police Department for 17
years.
SPEAKER_00 (03:56):
Okay, all right, cool.
And Sherry, where are you?
SPEAKER_03 (03:59):
Yeah, uh I was at the Boone Police Department for
11 years.
SPEAKER_00 (04:02):
Boone Police Department, awesome.
Man, that town has a lot ofstuff that happens there.
Man, it's it's yeah.
It's a great town.
It's a great town.
I just thought they're their lawenforcement up there.
See a lot of things.
It's it's kind of unfortunatesometimes.
They're just things that havehappened in that town.
SPEAKER_03 (04:16):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (04:17):
Beautiful town, though, one of my favorites.
All right, then we got our thirdguest.
How are you?
SPEAKER_02 (04:22):
I'm good.
I'm Naima Sadiq.
I'm an instructor here as well.
SPEAKER_00 (04:26):
Yeah, and you've been here for how long?
SPEAKER_02 (04:28):
It'll be four years in December.
Dang.
SPEAKER_00 (04:31):
Yeah.
I've seen I rem I remember youfrom the I think the first time
I came here.
You always have a smile on yourface.
Like I always came here and kindof like I had nerves, right?
Like last time I was here, I wasan officer, and it was but I
came in here, and I think youroffice is somewhere like towards
down there, and your brightsmile.
Every time I walk in, it's it'sit's very welcoming.
Oh, absolutely.
So thank you.
Thank you.
And I've talked to a lot ofrecruits that come in, come
(04:52):
through this academy, and peoplereally um admire you.
They love having you as aninstructor.
Um they speak very highly of youand just know that means a lot
to our organization, how muchyou care.
SPEAKER_02 (05:04):
Thank you for saying that.
SPEAKER_00 (05:05):
Yeah, and that's what I love about you guys, is
so there's so much heart inthis.
It's not a factory, it's not afactory of first responders.
You guys care about it, andyou're very intentional about
the process that it goesthrough.
So I want to jump into it, andand and this can go where
anybody wants to go.
But when I came to the academy,I was 20 years old, obviously a
male.
(05:26):
I was engaged at the time, andthere were so many challenges,
relational-wise, at home.
I didn't know how to handle itall.
It got very ugly.
Um, and on the other podcast,you guys have heard me talk
about that.
But let's talk about some of thechallenges, especially when you
come to the academy.
What is it like when you come tothe academy and what are some of
the challenges that that youguys may face or have faced that
(05:48):
that the others may not?
Because I'm just it's a let'sjust address the issue.
It's a male-dominated field,right?
Mostly it's people say all theyrefer to police officers, a
guys, right?
It's it's been male dominated.
Luckily, that's shifted, thankgoodness, because we need the
heart of our female firstresponders, because you guys,
(06:10):
um, yeah, none you guys havemore impact, I think, than the
men officers.
I really do.
Just because um you caredifferent.
You care different, and I thinkthat's pretty cool.
So coming to the academy, whatis it like as a female?
And let's just did you go to didyou go through ILEA?
I did.
What year?
SPEAKER_03 (06:28):
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (06:32):
Put your calculators away, people.
SPEAKER_03 (06:34):
I know, right?
Um yes, uh uh 1987, uh, so awhile ago.
And um I would say as a female,um it's it was very uh probably
isolating.
Um I would use that wordloosely, but it it um as a
(06:59):
female you um don't have quitethe interaction um with the
instructors, at least we didn'tum back then.
And so you relied on there wasthree other females in my class,
so we relied on each otherheavily.
Um so so that was cool, and youyou really get those um
relationships that are lifelong.
(07:21):
Um but it was a it was adifferent time also in 1987.
Um and you know, and women werestill forging a path.
Um, so it wasn't unusual for tohave one woman in the entire
county, yeah.
Um, you know, that was a part ofeverything.
SPEAKER_00 (07:38):
Are you seeing that change?
SPEAKER_03 (07:40):
Yeah, and it's it's awesome.
And since I've even been at thechair here in the last three
years, we've seen um womenreally increase in the numbers
that are going through BasicAcademy, which I am just
thrilled about because I too,there they were so
underrepresented for a longtime.
And women just bring differentskill sets um than men do um to
(08:03):
a mostly masculine field.
But the level that women cande-escalate uh situations and um
engage in community relations, Ithink is is a skill set that
they have uh that that everybodyneeds.
And I think agencies are finallyrecognizing that.
And really, um, it doesn'tmatter if a a female is five
(08:26):
foot three or six foot, um, youknow, they can do the job if
they're trained properly.
SPEAKER_00 (08:32):
Absolutely.
It doesn't, I mean the sizedoesn't matter.
It used to be way back a long awhile, long time ago, and law
enforcement had to be a certainheight, you had to be all these
these physical things.
Um, luckily that went away.
Yeah, it's not like we go towork and have to carry heavy
stuff.
Yeah, it's like it's it'smental, but it's not physically.
Um, so I'm glad you're seeingthat change.
And I think it's women like youwho went through in the 80s that
(08:52):
are paved the way for theyounger generation to be able to
come in and have a little bitdifferent experience.
But I could imagine those threepeople you were with, you
probably created a pretty bigbond with.
SPEAKER_03 (09:03):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (09:04):
Because how big you know, classes are usually around
what, 40, 50?
Yep, yeah.
So if you only got one or two orthree females, yeah.
Um guys are kind of jerks.
I'm just gonna be real.
Like so many of my firstresponder friends, and I'm sure
I did it in my time.
Sometimes we treat femaleofficers different, right?
Let's be real.
We do, and it's and it'sdisgusting.
(09:27):
Like I don't know why ithappens, but um, it's just like
they like when you hire, I'venoticed when I've hired when we
hire new officers on ourdepartment when I was working, a
new female would come on, andshe would and it seemed like
people would treat her differentthan they would the guys.
And what I learned is fromworking with so many of you is
don't treat us different.
Like you guys the most angryI've seen some officers is when
(09:51):
on a call, a male will walk upand take over the call and
basically kind of tell thefemale to step aside, and then
that's and that's that's notright, that's horrible.
I can only imagine what that'sfeeling like.
But are you seeing any of thattype of shifting coming in?
Any of you guys, as far as onthe male side, I know my bros
can be we can be harsh.
(10:13):
Are you seeing any change?
SPEAKER_03 (10:14):
I I I think some recruits, you know, they're very
open about um some males don'tempower them or don't um um give
them their due, if you will, umand kind of underestimate them,
uh, whereas other ones um, youknow, are very accepting.
So I think it it ranges bothways today, and that's why I
(10:35):
think it's so important uh theroles that Brooke and Naeema
have is because they're um everyday in front of these recruits
that are coming in, and theybuild a camaraderie with the
female recruits uh a lot morethan I do, and um, it empowers
them, it empowers the females tosee two role models like them
that have really beensuccessful, not only in the
(10:58):
careers, but post-career, andnow they're training all of
these officers that are gonna goout to their communities.
SPEAKER_00 (11:04):
I love that.
I love that.
So you started in what year didyou start your career?
SPEAKER_01 (11:10):
Um I graduated from ILA in 2006.
SPEAKER_00 (11:14):
Okay.
So you were class number, you're212.
212, okay.
I was class 176.
unknown (11:21):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (11:23):
Oh me?
Uh yeah, I graduated in 2009.
I was class 229.
229.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:29):
So we all went through Iowa Law Enforcement
Academy then.
Okay.
No out-of-staters or the didanybody do the brief academy,
the the eight-week one?
Okay.
Went through the whole thing.
Yeah.
When you came through, was itthree females to a class?
Or are the numbers going up?
SPEAKER_01 (11:43):
I had more than three females.
Oh, good.
Um, and I guess I did have alittle bit of a different
experience, to be honest.
I don't remember feelingdifferent coming through the
academy being a woman comparedto a to a male.
Um, and maybe it was just inthat time frame, you know,
you're just trying to getthrough it.
SPEAKER_00 (12:02):
And so um, well, I hope it's changing is the what
is the reason why the guys arebutts.
SPEAKER_01 (12:10):
Yeah, to speak to what you're saying, like I can
see in the career how it couldalmost um, you know, switch from
maybe being too harsh, treatingdifferently, um, and not
allowing them to kind of takethat primary role to like almost
favoritate uh you know, showingfavoritism and almost kind of
(12:32):
babying them along, right?
SPEAKER_00 (12:34):
Um that's gotta torque you off.
I know used to the femaleofficers I worked with, I mean,
torque them off.
SPEAKER_01 (12:39):
Oh yeah, there's a lot of strong women
personalities in law enforcementas well.
And so sometimes, I mean, wewant you guys to be kind, right?
And we want um to be treatedrespectfully, but we also want
it almost kind of led to afeeling of sometimes you have to
perform and sometimes you haveto prove something to the males.
SPEAKER_00 (13:05):
Um so do women square each other up like guys
do?
I mean, guys, it's immediatelywe square each other up.
Is he gonna be the betterofficer?
Is he stronger than me?
Is he gonna are we doing that?
Or are you girls are probably wejust care you guys connect and
or let's be real, or is it canit be ugly?
SPEAKER_01 (13:21):
I think it can't be can be ugly.
I think it depends onpersonality.
Like what type of personality isthat person to begin with?
I mean, we have very competitiveindividuals.
I'm a competitive individual.
I like to improve and bettermyself, but I'm also like
rooting for my my count, youknow, my my girls.
So um I think it just kind ofdepends on the personality in
(13:45):
the first place.
SPEAKER_00 (13:46):
So let me let me ask you this.
As a if if if your young girllistening wants to get into law
enforcement, is it safe?
Do you feel like it's safe?
SPEAKER_02 (13:55):
I feel like it's safe.
My my experience was completelydifferent because I was the only
female in my academy class whenI went through back in 2009.
Um and uh I had no expectationswhen I came here.
I was fortunate that the womanto my left, Brooke, what
immediately took me under herwing before I even became a law
(14:17):
enforcement officer.
I was working in a civilian rolewith Ames PD.
Um and we'd work out and do uh alot of have a lot of good
conversations together.
And it made me want to completeit even more because if I get to
work along someone like Brooke,who was extremely smart, who is
always encouraging, it's like,oh, I can get through it too.
(14:40):
So when I got here and realizedI'd be the only female, I I
don't know why.
I already had the assumptionthere weren't many female police
officers because our our agencydidn't have a lot.
So it wasn't any, it wasn't anexpectation, but there was a
spotlight.
I mean, I stand out and morningone one way um just because my
shining personality, but I'mkidding.
(15:02):
But uh I tried to come into itwith a positive mindset, and I
really think that that mindsetwas created initially at the
agency that I came from.
And so when I came to theacademy, I was going into it
with the understanding that I'dbe coming back to somewhere
where I would work.
And and everyone knows I like tohave fun.
And fortunately, um, as youknow, here at the academy, we
(15:25):
have class leadership as well.
And so I didn't know how uniqueit was because when you're the
the it's your experience, you'rethe only one.
Um, I was voted class leader ofmy class, class president back
in the day.
SPEAKER_00 (15:37):
That doesn't surprise me.
SPEAKER_02 (15:38):
And well, thank you for saying that.
But uh so I didn't know myexperience was completely
different.
I think that what I haveappreciated for having
generations in a leader likeSherry now is realizing when
you're going through something,not just wanting to fit in, but
being able to stand out in a waythat your classmates then take
(16:00):
on your attributes and learnfrom you.
And it's this transactionalrelationship instead of this
one-sided monolithic view of I'ma female, so this is what you
expect, or I'm a male, this iswhat you expect.
And to have me kind of in themiddle of that in a leadership
role with my class as well, itbrought a different dynamic in.
And then now as an instructor,having both AD Poole and now
(16:25):
Brooke, a really good friend ofmine working, we all have
different perspectives.
But at the end of the day, Ithink what we've learned is that
we're gonna give each other, andmy favorite word is grace.
And so when they have questionsuh from the most simple things,
just as like their uniform fits,I wouldn't even imagine to talk
to a male instructor about howmy uniform was fitting or what
(16:48):
I'm going through that daypersonally, because you know you
don't want to draw that type ofattention.
But, you know, hopefully theyfeel that they're we're
approachable and you can saythose little nuanced things that
people don't think about when itcomes to being a female in the
in the job that we we do have adifferent anatomy and it is
going to require someadjustments and say for like DT
(17:11):
or running or the physicalaspects.
SPEAKER_00 (17:13):
So yeah, and I think it's watching the public react
with female officers isinteresting as well, because I
think sometimes they treat thethe female side way different
than they do the guy side.
It seems like if if if a male uhmale officer comes up and is
firm with somebody, that's afirm, confident officer.
But if you come up with thatsame confidence and voice, you
(17:36):
are a beep.
And and one and it's and it'sweird.
One's confidence, and the otherone is supposedly considered a
beep who's on her beep.
And it's like, we don't have todeal with that.
SPEAKER_02 (17:48):
That's very true.
Yeah.
And when we teach commandpresence, that's a big thing we
talk about too is how do youdemonstrate command presence in
if you are in a female role andnot appear to be bossy, even if
you're saying the same thingsthat there's a you know, there's
things that come along, evensize, right?
For a male officer who who's ofa smaller stature, being more
(18:10):
assertive, might appear like,oh, he's got short man syndrome,
right?
And so we we all have uniquechallenges, but that is
something that you know we haveto consider.
SPEAKER_00 (18:20):
Yeah, that'd be tough.
And then and let's just throwthis out there women officers
get hit on a lot by the publicand and by sometimes within
people in their departments, andthat's gotta be tough.
I never walked around mydepartment and felt like all the
women were trying to get myattention and hit on me, but I
know the women feel that way.
Now that we're like you guysdeal with that, that we don't
have to deal with, and sometimesum officers can be out of line,
(18:42):
and that's gotta beuncomfortable in your guys'
shoes, especially if it's acommand staff or something.
You know, us guys, we don't haveto worry about that.
That's gotta be reallyuncomfortable to deal with in an
uncomfortable situation.
Um so how do you guys, I mean,how I say I call everybody guys,
just know that.
Like how do you how do you dothat in a safe way if you are a
(19:06):
female officer?
I know we're kind of going waydifferent here, but if you are a
female officer and the commandstaff is part of their problem,
what what what can we do whenthose issues come up?
If somebody's department istreating them different or or
what am I trying to say here?
And that's fine, we can editthis out.
(19:27):
Um how do you handle yourself inthat situation, I guess?
Because it's gotta be harderbecause you if every time an
officer looks at you or somebodyin the street says something to
you, if you brought it up toyour administration, um, I know
these, I know a lot of theadministration, a lot of them's
gonna tell you to suck it up,get over it, but it can't be
(19:47):
like that.
We can't be telling our femaleofficers to suck that up.
So when we do have that happenon the street, or if or if you
have it happen in yourdepartment, how do you guys, how
have you handled with that, howhave you seen that handled um
in-house?
And I know it's a touchysubject, um, but I do know that
(20:08):
it happens.
SPEAKER_03 (20:10):
And I I I think from uh coaching some of the females
that have gone through theacademy and have had to deal
with some of those issues iscoaching them through of drawing
a line in the sand and beingprepared for if you draw a line
in the sand, you're gonna becalled X, Y, and Z.
(20:30):
But if you don't draw a line inthe sand, this is what you're
gonna be called as well.
And so you have to really umstay true to who you are and um
not let the rumors or not letwhat other people are saying
about you determine your path.
And so I think it's reallyimportant that females have
(20:50):
mentors.
Uh, I think it's importantanybody has mentors, but it's
really difficult for femalesthat are sole in their
departments or sole in theircounties because they don't have
that person they can bounceideas off of.
Uh, but some of the biggeragencies have done a phenomenal
job with uh females going backand having mentors by other
(21:10):
females.
And then if something like thathappens, you have somebody that
they can talk to, talk itthrough with, okay, this is what
I did, or this is what I shouldhave done, and and kind of give
them ideas of what to say andhow to prepare themselves for
it.
SPEAKER_00 (21:26):
That's so wise.
And your leadership on that forthem has to be amazing.
Like you've because if you'venever gone through it, you don't
know.
And to have somebody like youwho's been there and had to deal
with probably you know early onin the 80s where this stuff
wasn't really being talkedabout, it was shut up and get
your job done.
And yeah, for sure.
I love that you're willing to totalk about that openly because
(21:46):
it's it's something that needsto be addressed.
And and part of the reason why Ibring this up is is I want to
all of the all of the femalelisteners to know if you're not
a first responder and it'ssomething you're looking into
looking into, it's safe andthere's a safe way to do it.
There really is, and there'sthere's mentors you can bring
around you, there is a safe wayto do it, and and and honestly,
like anything in our life, itsounds like Sherry, we got to
(22:09):
put boundaries on, we have to beput intentional boundaries on
that as we start our career.
Like otherwise, you'll you'llcross those boundaries, people
will will not know what's okayto say or not to say, and
sometimes that can be confusingbecause what was said the first
one day was okay, but now it'snot.
I think when you set thoseboundaries and you're and you're
firm in them and everybodyunderstands those boundaries,
(22:31):
it's a little healthier.
SPEAKER_03 (22:32):
Yes, correct.
And I and I do think peoplemiscommunicate those boundaries,
you know.
And again, we've had strongfemales come in here and right
off the bat, they're like, Myjob is to get through this
academy and be the best officerI want to be, and they don't
have time for anything else.
And instantly, you know, they'rethey're you know, they're the
person that nobody really wantsto communicate with, or they're
(22:54):
called certain names because ofthose boundaries.
And so it's really uh that's whyI think it's so important to
have females on staff that cantalk them through like, no,
you're doing the right thing.
You've set your boundaries andum you do your job.
SPEAKER_00 (23:08):
How much what so out of the staff here, what's the
percentage of women or men?
Do we know?
Like a wild guess?
SPEAKER_03 (23:15):
Uh so we have uh Naeema and Brooke that are
police officers, uh femaleformer police officers that are
females, and then we have twoother females uh that were in
the victim victim advocate rolesuh uh that are that are females
as well.
SPEAKER_00 (23:31):
Okay, cool.
I love that.
This is this academy is not maledominated at all.
No.
Yeah, like when you come here,you know, it it you're it's not
a male-dominated place, and Ilove how much that's changed
over the year uh years, and Ilove that like you three are
open to talking about it becauseit's happening, we just need to
talk about it.
And I and I think it's prettycool.
So I don't think where I want togo down on this next road, but
(23:59):
what what are what are some ofthe relational ship issues that
can come up as a female firstresponder trying to have a
healthy relationship, but yetbeing in the in the position
where y'all are working, whereit's where it is male dominated,
there's a lot of danger, there'sa lot of I mean it's gotta be
different.
(24:19):
Like my my sweet wife, Icouldn't imagine her putting on
a uniform and going out, like uhit's gotta be hard in those
relationships because I'm suresometimes you have to deal with
the you know, the person thatyou're having a relationship
with also trying to baby you ortrying to so what's what is that
like trying to it's have arelationship as a female first
(24:40):
responder, as a female policeofficer.
Um are the issues kind of thesame they are with guys, or what
is that like?
Do you guys walk out the samedoor?
What when you walk out the door?
Is it the same discussions thatwe're having as we're walking
out?
I know these are dumb questions,but I gotta know.
SPEAKER_01 (24:56):
Well, I would say I was fortunate that my husband
was also in law enforcement oris also in law enforcement.
So um we worked at the samedepartment.
SPEAKER_00 (25:08):
That makes sense.
SPEAKER_01 (25:09):
And we we actually worked the same shift before we
had kids.
SPEAKER_00 (25:12):
God bless you.
SPEAKER_01 (25:13):
Yeah, yeah, that we get that a lot.
That oh man, I couldn't workwith my wife or husband, but um,
for us it worked, and it was alot of fun when we worked
together on shift.
Um so I think that you know itwould it was easier for me
having a partner that knew thejob, knew the people that um I
(25:38):
was gonna be working with orhaving contact with um on a
daily basis in our community.
And um we were able to haveconversations about you know our
cases or our you know contactsand stuff.
So I have a little bit of adifferent experience than maybe
(26:00):
what other women will in lawenforcement.
SPEAKER_00 (26:02):
Yeah, and that's a unique dynamic of its own.
I couldn't imagine working atthe same time with with I work
with my spouse now and I loveit, love and work with her all
the time, but I couldn't imaginebeing on one side of town while
I'm dealing with a drunk andhearing uh gunshots going off on
the other side of town where mywife's at.
I couldn't imagine what thatmust be like.
That's a whole podcast in and ofitself.
Like, wow.
Yeah, that'd be that would bescary.
(26:23):
Um, so did would did you comeinto the career already having a
relationship?
Um Yeah.
And you don't have to share anyof this if you don't want to.
I just I just know that most ofthe stuff we deal with in our
organization is relational,really it's it's it's
relationship issues, moneyissues, mental health issues.
SPEAKER_03 (26:40):
Yeah, and I think relationship issues is a norm
for any service industry.
And I think that goes out, youknow, any first responder, uh,
nurses, like anybody that'sdoing shift work, anybody that
has um that deals with trauma,and because it's really easy as
a first responder, as a policeofficer, to to kind of uh bury a
(27:02):
lot of the stuff that you see,and you want to protect your
spouse, whether it's your wifeor your husband or your partner,
whatever it may be, um you wantto protect them from what you
see.
And so a lot of that stays atwork and you don't bring it
home.
And then so you don't have anoutlet because your friends may
or may not be um in the lawenforcement realm.
(27:25):
And so uh the more you bury it,the more it bubbles up in ways
that you don't realize.
And so I think it's really uhlaw enforcement's one of those
things, like nobody nobody talksabout it, or if they talk about
it, they make a joke.
And you know, we have a warpedsense of humors, and that gets
us through the shift and it itmakes for great stories.
(27:45):
Um uh, but on the other hand,it's relationships are just
really hard when you when youcan't process the trauma that
you see every day because you'redealing with trauma, you're
dealing with dysfunction, andsometimes that dysfunction
follows you right back to home.
SPEAKER_00 (28:02):
Yeah, and for you know, for us guys, we get to
walk out and get in our patrolcar and sometimes not have to
worry about the kids andeverything else going on.
You know, we kind of have thisfreedom or whatever, we get to
skip out the door, but you well,you guys guys all the time, but
you girls don't get to don't getto have that experience.
So it's gotta be unique whenyou're also a mother.
(28:25):
Or let's talk about that.
SPEAKER_03 (28:28):
So I had my daughter when I was a police officer, and
I went back to work uh six orseven weeks after I had her.
And so I was working night shiftand uh going on about three or
four hours sleep a nightthinking I could do it all.
I could watch her during the dayand I could work night shifts,
and um boy, that soon you knowwas a slap in the face that you
(28:49):
can't do it all, which is youknow a ding for for if you want
to be the you know the greatestmother ever.
And and all of a sudden you'rejust like, I'm not doing anybody
any good, and I'm actually adanger in my job.
So you gotta start figuring thatout as well.
SPEAKER_00 (29:04):
Yeah.
So much of uh what we do in ourline of work, I mean, our kids
see it, they're affected by it.
We think they're not, but theysee it all, they feel it all.
And it's gotta be hard to walkout, you know, walking out the
house knowing that you know youryour mother mind is always on.
Your mother mind is always on.
That would be a different tough,especially working all these
different shifts.
Like that would be really toughfor daycare, for anything like
(29:28):
that.
Sure.
And then, you know, court datesfor me when I was in it, like my
wife worked from home, likecourt day was no issue.
I could just go, that'd becompletely different if you got
three kids, and that's justunique challenge.
SPEAKER_03 (29:43):
Yeah, and I think you know, that's across the
board again with any firstresponders uh that you're trying
to just balance it all.
SPEAKER_00 (29:50):
Yeah, it is, man.
SPEAKER_02 (29:53):
I want to say from the other side, um, so I don't
have children, but I rememberearly on feeling like a silent.
Violent pressure to not havechildren.
Like it was a burden on theagency for like, oh, don't tell
me you're gonna get pregnantbecause you you're a young
officer, and those comments aregoing on.
Um, not not just in general inin life, right?
(30:14):
As females are getting into theprofession and then like a
pressure of fitting back intoyour uniform, fitting back into
your vest.
And I remember thinking, like,oh no, I don't want to have to
do that, or watching, you know,a female officer go on light
duty and be like stripped of herrole as a police officer.
And it was almost looked on likethis, like I said, like silent
burden, like, oh, we've got tocover shifts because they're
(30:36):
pregnant.
And just recently, even havingconversations uh with a female
officer around the state who'sextremely nervous because they
became pregnant and they're, youknow, don't know what to do in
terms of like their rolesbecause they have a physical
function and what that lookslike, um, and navigating the
pressure to not have children.
(30:58):
And then outside of the state,learning uh a sergeant struggle
of being a female sergeant goingon light duty and being stripped
of the title, even thoughthere's other desk sergeants,
not even being able to like kindof listen to the radio and
having conversations like mypreg pregnancy isn't a
disability, like I can stillmake informed decisions.
(31:20):
And so I think now looking backearly on, it really guided my
decisions and being reallynervous about having a child in
this profession because there'sso many added elements.
SPEAKER_00 (31:32):
Thank you for saying that because that's true.
And I've been guilty of it whenI was a young officer.
When a female officer gotpregnant, oh gosh, the shifts
are gonna change, she's gonna goto light duty, of course.
Gosh, she just had one lastyear.
What is wrong?
She don't even like her husband.
I'm like, you get this is whathappens.
Um wow, yeah.
Thank you for bringing that up.
That's uh that's real, that's areal issue.
(31:56):
Um sorry, let me read this realquick.
So do you think people, so doyou think like people are
holding off on families,probably?
SPEAKER_02 (32:07):
I definitely think people are holding off on
family.
SPEAKER_00 (32:09):
Sorry, I can get off this thought.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (32:11):
Yeah.
And you know, even as uh we seethe newer female officers coming
through now of when you talkabout wanting to show improve,
you don't think about I know thereal pressure is the physical
demand.
And think about it, as a womanwho has a child, your body
changes, right?
And so how you fit into yourvest, like, oh great, now it's
(32:31):
gonna cost us another vest, ornow you know you got, I mean, I
didn't even know my assistantdirector came back six weeks
later.
Six weeks later, does youruniform even fit the same?
Like, do you you're you're youknow, if you're gonna
breastfeed?
I don't know if I could say thatin the bathroom or the locker
room, yeah.
(32:52):
Yeah, uh, you know, and so Ihear stories from you know
officers that came before me,and I'm like, oh no, I don't
want to have that added.
SPEAKER_00 (33:00):
Yeah, that's unfortunate, it really is.
That the the the women arethinking that way that they
getting pregnant would be a aburden.
SPEAKER_02 (33:07):
And so when you talk about relational strain, you
know, when you're young and aguy wants to get married or
wants to have children andyou're like, I just got into my
job, and I know um, you know,I've been asked a lot to leave
my profession, and so it's adifferent type of dynamic, I
would say.
SPEAKER_00 (33:27):
Wow.
I love your guys' openness totalk about that.
I think that's I think that'sinteresting.
SPEAKER_01 (33:32):
I think it it definitely limits um, you know,
how big they want to make theirfamily as well.
So just with there being a lotof expectations, right?
Um, you're going to court, youhave extra training, you may be
mandatoried.
And so it isn't a normal um, youknow, eight-hour shift.
(34:00):
So that impacts, you know, umhow many children you might
have.
My husband and I kind of madethat decision.
I always wanted to kind of havea larger family.
Um, and then with both of usbeing in law enforcement, once
we had kids, we were like shipspassing the night because it was
cheaper for us to be on oppositeshifts than to try to find
daycare for really odd hours.
(34:22):
So we, you know, saw each otherwhen we were um coming home and
one was leaving for work.
And like you said, Sherry, Imean, I remember um working
overnights and I had, you know,a three or a four-year-old that
wasn't going to school yet, andI'd put him on the couch with me
and we'd watch cartoons, andyou'd wake up four hours later,
like, oh my gosh, I fell asleep,you know, but still having to do
(34:45):
those, still having to work whenyou're why God made women
stronger, more wise.
SPEAKER_00 (34:53):
I mean, you guys have all the gifts and talents,
and uh uh we just kind of got Idon't know what rib you guys
took, but it must have been ourknowledge rib, our I don't know
what it is, but you guys are yougals are made different.
You just are, and I I couldn'timagine going through this
career with the the I don't wantto say issues, the the the
things that come with it.
Being a human, right?
(35:14):
Yeah, and having a family.
Yeah.
Wow.
Well, we're gonna close this up,but I do want to do more of
these down the road if you guysum are open to it.
I really appreciate this, butwe've got about 35 minutes, and
there's so many more questions Iwant to ask.
And I do want to apologize.
I know I ask really dumbquestions, like really dumb, and
sometimes they're they're um Ijust kind of say how it is.
(35:38):
Like guys, I've seen the guys,first responders, can be jerks,
can treat them different, andit's it's it's disgusting, and I
just like to call it out becauseI couldn't imagine what that
would be like to go to gothrough.
Um so thank you for that.
SPEAKER_02 (35:51):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (35:55):
This is a good question.
Before we close out.
I'll I'll pass me.
I don't even know this is thequestion, but this is the
question I have.
Do we do the are the vices thatwe do, we numb our pain with our
struggles, do they change forwomen?
Like with guys, it's very muchadrenaline, uh, alcohol,
gambling, like skydiving, likejust like is there any is is it
(36:18):
different?
How how or is it generallyalcohol is the number one thing?
Is it all just the same?
Because we're all just humans.
It's not like uh uh your sexmatters, or is there a
difference?
SPEAKER_03 (36:34):
Well I don't uh I I I can't speak for for everybody
else.
I would just say, you know, uhfor me um uh they were
different.
Uh it was never alcohol, it wasnever gambling.
I was just uh I have a veryaddictive personality.
Um and so I know that aboutmyself.
So I stay away from things thatI know I are not good that I
(36:56):
would be addicted to.
Um for me it was more sports.
Um for me it was uh reading,that type of stuff.
Um so that's that's kind of whatI was drawn to when I was a
police officer, is is that typeof stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (37:13):
So yeah, and I noticed a lot of female officers
are more into their fitness thanguys are too.
I feel like that's a thing thatsometimes fitness is a way of
escape.
I don't know, is there any othervices or anything that like and
when I say that is things thingswe run from, right?
SPEAKER_02 (37:29):
I didn't know this was a vice until working with
Chap and talking, and because Inever had the these
conversations before, but Iwould literally capitalize every
second of my day.
So I was working patrol andBrooke knows this.
I would leave my patrol shiftand then I was in a full-time
band.
And so I would travel around andI would play in this band, or
(37:52):
I'm going to rehearsals, or Iwas a backup dancer for another
band.
So I had this whole separateidentity, you know, that I
formed.
So I didn't really think about,you know, the job.
Like I deal with something, andthen in my friend group, I
didn't have in my friendsoutside of law enforcement, no
one um that I talked to aboutit.
And often I disappear into theserealms where no one even knew I
(38:14):
was a police officer.
I so I maybe think was acceptinga whole different identity.
So I completely separated theselives and then I take off that
uniform and literally forgetabout the job and then
capitalize.
I maybe was sleeping maybe two,three hours and maybe it was
being busy all the time.
SPEAKER_00 (38:32):
Being busy, that's what it was.
Another thing is first we're wesign up for all the overtime,
it's busy, busy, busy.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, so maybe that was that wasmy well.
Thank you for answering my dumbquestions.
I'll have more, I'm sure, downthe road.
But um, sometimes I like to askthe questions that I hear other
men ask me.
And uh so thank you.
Yeah, I appreciate it.
And we're gonna close this up.
(38:53):
Thank you for all being on, andwe'll be back at the academy
recording some more.
I know we kind of just touchedon some, you know, we only want
to inch deep on a lot of things,um, but we'll go deeper.
So thank you all for being here.
I appreciate it.
Um, y'all are a blessing, andthank you for doing what you do.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_04 (39:08):
Thank you.
Welcome back to another episode of the Shared
Voices Podcast brought to you bythe 1042 Project.
And we are still at the Academy.
They haven't kicked me out yet.
So we're good right now.
We got we got two interviewsdone, and I really think they
were impactful.
I was really impressed with theopenness of all of you guys and
the staff here and the and theleadership here to be willing to
(00:24):
talk.
I think that's pretty cool.
And uh so if you didn't get tocheck out the last two episodes
of the since we've been at theacademy, go back and check those
out.
Um this one's gonna be a fun onetoo.
I wanted to bring in a differentaspect that I unfortunately
cannot speak to, and that'sokay.
I am a male, and in this line ofwork, um the female side brings
(00:45):
different challenges to it thathonestly some of us guys don't
even understand or know.
So I'm not gonna pretend to knowwhat you guys go through.
I've worked with a lot offemales throughout my career.
Um amazing, uh I mean, workedwith some amazing women.
But is even though how you knowhow well I got to know them and
got to see them work throughouttheir careers and how they
(01:06):
handled themselves, I I stilldon't know what it was gonna go,
what it was like.
So um so number one, let's juststart with introductions and
then we're gonna go there.
I got so many questions that aregoing through my head right now.
Um, so let's just start off withthe assistant director.
SPEAKER_03 (01:21):
Uh hi, I'm Sherry Poole, and I'm the assistant
director here at ILEA.
SPEAKER_00 (01:25):
Thank you for allowing us to come in.
Yeah.
You are part of the commandstaff here.
Yep.
And and I love how you guys leadthis place and you see it
through your staff.
SPEAKER_03 (01:34):
Yeah, for sure.
Uh, we're very lucky to workalongside them.
I don't feel like we're atop-down organization.
I think we lead within, andthat's uh a mark of a good
police officer or somebody inservice leadership.
SPEAKER_00 (01:47):
Well, I think that's pretty cool.
You guys are very relationalhere.
I think that's kind of neat.
You care about the person.
Yeah, literally, you guys are inthe people business.
Yep.
And you do it well.
Yes.
And I know it's hard because wedeal with hard things.
People come here and sometimesthey don't make it through the
academies.
There's different struggles,relationship issues, things
happen.
Um I love that you guys areaddressing it and and are being
(02:08):
open and allowing, you know,that you're allowing these
people a safe place to starttheir career where they can
start, you know, meeting withour or us and start addressing
some of these issues they havecoming into their career that
they're not carrying in.
Um and to talk about how to havehealthy relationships and all
that.
So thank you for doing that.
Um, I know that's intentional,that's not just something by
(02:29):
accident that happens out here,and and I appreciate that.
Yeah.
All right, we got three guestshere, so let's go ahead and
introduce the second one.
She's just over here smiling, alittle nervous, but she got a
big old smile on her face.
SPEAKER_01 (02:40):
Good morning.
SPEAKER_00 (02:41):
Morning.
SPEAKER_01 (02:41):
My name is Brooke McPherson.
I am a general instructor at theIowa Law Enforcement Academy.
SPEAKER_00 (02:46):
General instructor.
So does that mean that you, is ageneral instructor mean that you
just kind of fill in everywhere?
Not really fill in, but youteach more than one thing?
Or what so what is that role?
Do we have specific roles hereat the academy?
SPEAKER_01 (03:00):
I do teach some classes.
Um, and then I help kind oflayer so with other instruction.
Um there's a lot of hands ondeck some in some of those uh
areas like drivers training anddefensive tactics.
So I will uh be present and umkind of oversee or or or watch
(03:25):
to make sure that the recruitsare are getting things.
SPEAKER_00 (03:28):
Yeah, that's awesome.
How long have you been here?
You're new, aren't you?
I am.
I'll take it.
I don't know if I've seen youout here.
SPEAKER_01 (03:34):
No, this is my first official uh session.
SPEAKER_00 (03:39):
Welcome.
Thank you.
I'm so glad you're here.
Thank you.
I mean, this the instructorroles out here are not just
positions that anybody justfeels like it's a calling.
You have to have a calling onyour life to do what you guys
do, and I thank you for that.
Were you ever a first responder?
SPEAKER_01 (03:53):
Yes, I worked at the Ames Police Department for 17
years.
SPEAKER_00 (03:56):
Okay, all right, cool.
And Sherry, where are you?
SPEAKER_03 (03:59):
Yeah, uh I was at the Boone Police Department for
11 years.
SPEAKER_00 (04:02):
Boone Police Department, awesome.
Man, that town has a lot ofstuff that happens there.
Man, it's it's yeah.
It's a great town.
It's a great town.
I just thought they're their lawenforcement up there.
See a lot of things.
It's it's kind of unfortunatesometimes.
They're just things that havehappened in that town.
SPEAKER_03 (04:16):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (04:17):
Beautiful town, though, one of my favorites.
All right, then we got our thirdguest.
How are you?
SPEAKER_02 (04:22):
I'm good.
I'm Naima Sadiq.
I'm an instructor here as well.
SPEAKER_00 (04:26):
Yeah, and you've been here for how long?
SPEAKER_02 (04:28):
It'll be four years in December.
Dang.
SPEAKER_00 (04:31):
Yeah.
I've seen I rem I remember youfrom the I think the first time
I came here.
You always have a smile on yourface.
Like I always came here and kindof like I had nerves, right?
Like last time I was here, I wasan officer, and it was but I
came in here, and I think youroffice is somewhere like towards
down there, and your brightsmile.
Every time I walk in, it's it'sit's very welcoming.
Oh, absolutely.
So thank you.
Thank you.
And I've talked to a lot ofrecruits that come in, come
(04:52):
through this academy, and peoplereally um admire you.
They love having you as aninstructor.
Um they speak very highly of youand just know that means a lot
to our organization, how muchyou care.
SPEAKER_02 (05:04):
Thank you for saying that.
SPEAKER_00 (05:05):
Yeah, and that's what I love about you guys, is
so there's so much heart inthis.
It's not a factory, it's not afactory of first responders.
You guys care about it, andyou're very intentional about
the process that it goesthrough.
So I want to jump into it, andand and this can go where
anybody wants to go.
But when I came to the academy,I was 20 years old, obviously a
male.
(05:26):
I was engaged at the time, andthere were so many challenges,
relational-wise, at home.
I didn't know how to handle itall.
It got very ugly.
Um, and on the other podcast,you guys have heard me talk
about that.
But let's talk about some of thechallenges, especially when you
come to the academy.
What is it like when you come tothe academy and what are some of
the challenges that that youguys may face or have faced that
(05:48):
that the others may not?
Because I'm just it's a let'sjust address the issue.
It's a male-dominated field,right?
Mostly it's people say all theyrefer to police officers, a
guys, right?
It's it's been male dominated.
Luckily, that's shifted, thankgoodness, because we need the
heart of our female firstresponders, because you guys,
(06:10):
um, yeah, none you guys havemore impact, I think, than the
men officers.
I really do.
Just because um you caredifferent.
You care different, and I thinkthat's pretty cool.
So coming to the academy, whatis it like as a female?
And let's just did you go to didyou go through ILEA?
I did.
What year?
SPEAKER_03 (06:28):
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (06:32):
Put your calculators away, people.
SPEAKER_03 (06:34):
I know, right?
Um yes, uh uh 1987, uh, so awhile ago.
And um I would say as a female,um it's it was very uh probably
isolating.
Um I would use that wordloosely, but it it um as a
(06:59):
female you um don't have quitethe interaction um with the
instructors, at least we didn'tum back then.
And so you relied on there wasthree other females in my class,
so we relied on each otherheavily.
Um so so that was cool, and youyou really get those um
relationships that are lifelong.
(07:21):
Um but it was a it was adifferent time also in 1987.
Um and you know, and women werestill forging a path.
Um, so it wasn't unusual for tohave one woman in the entire
county, yeah.
Um, you know, that was a part ofeverything.
SPEAKER_00 (07:38):
Are you seeing that change?
SPEAKER_03 (07:40):
Yeah, and it's it's awesome.
And since I've even been at thechair here in the last three
years, we've seen um womenreally increase in the numbers
that are going through BasicAcademy, which I am just
thrilled about because I too,there they were so
underrepresented for a longtime.
And women just bring differentskill sets um than men do um to
(08:03):
a mostly masculine field.
But the level that women cande-escalate uh situations and um
engage in community relations, Ithink is is a skill set that
they have uh that that everybodyneeds.
And I think agencies are finallyrecognizing that.
And really, um, it doesn'tmatter if a a female is five
(08:26):
foot three or six foot, um, youknow, they can do the job if
they're trained properly.
SPEAKER_00 (08:32):
Absolutely.
It doesn't, I mean the sizedoesn't matter.
It used to be way back a long awhile, long time ago, and law
enforcement had to be a certainheight, you had to be all these
these physical things.
Um, luckily that went away.
Yeah, it's not like we go towork and have to carry heavy
stuff.
Yeah, it's like it's it'smental, but it's not physically.
Um, so I'm glad you're seeingthat change.
And I think it's women like youwho went through in the 80s that
(08:52):
are paved the way for theyounger generation to be able to
come in and have a little bitdifferent experience.
But I could imagine those threepeople you were with, you
probably created a pretty bigbond with.
SPEAKER_03 (09:03):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (09:04):
Because how big you know, classes are usually around
what, 40, 50?
Yep, yeah.
So if you only got one or two orthree females, yeah.
Um guys are kind of jerks.
I'm just gonna be real.
Like so many of my firstresponder friends, and I'm sure
I did it in my time.
Sometimes we treat femaleofficers different, right?
Let's be real.
We do, and it's and it'sdisgusting.
(09:27):
Like I don't know why ithappens, but um, it's just like
they like when you hire, I'venoticed when I've hired when we
hire new officers on ourdepartment when I was working, a
new female would come on, andshe would and it seemed like
people would treat her differentthan they would the guys.
And what I learned is fromworking with so many of you is
don't treat us different.
Like you guys the most angryI've seen some officers is when
(09:51):
on a call, a male will walk upand take over the call and
basically kind of tell thefemale to step aside, and then
that's and that's that's notright, that's horrible.
I can only imagine what that'sfeeling like.
But are you seeing any of thattype of shifting coming in?
Any of you guys, as far as onthe male side, I know my bros
can be we can be harsh.
(10:13):
Are you seeing any change?
SPEAKER_03 (10:14):
I I I think some recruits, you know, they're very
open about um some males don'tempower them or don't um um give
them their due, if you will, umand kind of underestimate them,
uh, whereas other ones um, youknow, are very accepting.
So I think it it ranges bothways today, and that's why I
(10:35):
think it's so important uh theroles that Brooke and Naeema
have is because they're um everyday in front of these recruits
that are coming in, and theybuild a camaraderie with the
female recruits uh a lot morethan I do, and um, it empowers
them, it empowers the females tosee two role models like them
that have really beensuccessful, not only in the
(10:58):
careers, but post-career, andnow they're training all of
these officers that are gonna goout to their communities.
SPEAKER_00 (11:04):
I love that.
I love that.
So you started in what year didyou start your career?
SPEAKER_01 (11:10):
Um I graduated from ILA in 2006.
SPEAKER_00 (11:14):
Okay.
So you were class number, you're212.
212, okay.
I was class 176.
unknown (11:21):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (11:23):
Oh me?
Uh yeah, I graduated in 2009.
I was class 229.
229.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:29):
So we all went through Iowa Law Enforcement
Academy then.
Okay.
No out-of-staters or the didanybody do the brief academy,
the the eight-week one?
Okay.
Went through the whole thing.
Yeah.
When you came through, was itthree females to a class?
Or are the numbers going up?
SPEAKER_01 (11:43):
I had more than three females.
Oh, good.
Um, and I guess I did have alittle bit of a different
experience, to be honest.
I don't remember feelingdifferent coming through the
academy being a woman comparedto a to a male.
Um, and maybe it was just inthat time frame, you know,
you're just trying to getthrough it.
SPEAKER_00 (12:02):
And so um, well, I hope it's changing is the what
is the reason why the guys arebutts.
SPEAKER_01 (12:10):
Yeah, to speak to what you're saying, like I can
see in the career how it couldalmost um, you know, switch from
maybe being too harsh, treatingdifferently, um, and not
allowing them to kind of takethat primary role to like almost
favoritate uh you know, showingfavoritism and almost kind of
(12:32):
babying them along, right?
SPEAKER_00 (12:34):
Um that's gotta torque you off.
I know used to the femaleofficers I worked with, I mean,
torque them off.
SPEAKER_01 (12:39):
Oh yeah, there's a lot of strong women
personalities in law enforcementas well.
And so sometimes, I mean, wewant you guys to be kind, right?
And we want um to be treatedrespectfully, but we also want
it almost kind of led to afeeling of sometimes you have to
perform and sometimes you haveto prove something to the males.
SPEAKER_00 (13:05):
Um so do women square each other up like guys
do?
I mean, guys, it's immediatelywe square each other up.
Is he gonna be the betterofficer?
Is he stronger than me?
Is he gonna are we doing that?
Or are you girls are probably wejust care you guys connect and
or let's be real, or is it canit be ugly?
SPEAKER_01 (13:21):
I think it can't be can be ugly.
I think it depends onpersonality.
Like what type of personality isthat person to begin with?
I mean, we have very competitiveindividuals.
I'm a competitive individual.
I like to improve and bettermyself, but I'm also like
rooting for my my count, youknow, my my girls.
So um I think it just kind ofdepends on the personality in
(13:45):
the first place.
SPEAKER_00 (13:46):
So let me let me ask you this.
As a if if if your young girllistening wants to get into law
enforcement, is it safe?
Do you feel like it's safe?
SPEAKER_02 (13:55):
I feel like it's safe.
My my experience was completelydifferent because I was the only
female in my academy class whenI went through back in 2009.
Um and uh I had no expectationswhen I came here.
I was fortunate that the womanto my left, Brooke, what
immediately took me under herwing before I even became a law
(14:17):
enforcement officer.
I was working in a civilian rolewith Ames PD.
Um and we'd work out and do uh alot of have a lot of good
conversations together.
And it made me want to completeit even more because if I get to
work along someone like Brooke,who was extremely smart, who is
always encouraging, it's like,oh, I can get through it too.
(14:40):
So when I got here and realizedI'd be the only female, I I
don't know why.
I already had the assumptionthere weren't many female police
officers because our our agencydidn't have a lot.
So it wasn't any, it wasn't anexpectation, but there was a
spotlight.
I mean, I stand out and morningone one way um just because my
shining personality, but I'mkidding.
(15:02):
But uh I tried to come into itwith a positive mindset, and I
really think that that mindsetwas created initially at the
agency that I came from.
And so when I came to theacademy, I was going into it
with the understanding that I'dbe coming back to somewhere
where I would work.
And and everyone knows I like tohave fun.
And fortunately, um, as youknow, here at the academy, we
(15:25):
have class leadership as well.
And so I didn't know how uniqueit was because when you're the
the it's your experience, you'rethe only one.
Um, I was voted class leader ofmy class, class president back
in the day.
SPEAKER_00 (15:37):
That doesn't surprise me.
SPEAKER_02 (15:38):
And well, thank you for saying that.
But uh so I didn't know myexperience was completely
different.
I think that what I haveappreciated for having
generations in a leader likeSherry now is realizing when
you're going through something,not just wanting to fit in, but
being able to stand out in a waythat your classmates then take
(16:00):
on your attributes and learnfrom you.
And it's this transactionalrelationship instead of this
one-sided monolithic view of I'ma female, so this is what you
expect, or I'm a male, this iswhat you expect.
And to have me kind of in themiddle of that in a leadership
role with my class as well, itbrought a different dynamic in.
And then now as an instructor,having both AD Poole and now
(16:25):
Brooke, a really good friend ofmine working, we all have
different perspectives.
But at the end of the day, Ithink what we've learned is that
we're gonna give each other, andmy favorite word is grace.
And so when they have questionsuh from the most simple things,
just as like their uniform fits,I wouldn't even imagine to talk
to a male instructor about howmy uniform was fitting or what
(16:48):
I'm going through that daypersonally, because you know you
don't want to draw that type ofattention.
But, you know, hopefully theyfeel that they're we're
approachable and you can saythose little nuanced things that
people don't think about when itcomes to being a female in the
in the job that we we do have adifferent anatomy and it is
going to require someadjustments and say for like DT
(17:11):
or running or the physicalaspects.
SPEAKER_00 (17:13):
So yeah, and I think it's watching the public react
with female officers isinteresting as well, because I
think sometimes they treat thethe female side way different
than they do the guy side.
It seems like if if if a male uhmale officer comes up and is
firm with somebody, that's afirm, confident officer.
But if you come up with thatsame confidence and voice, you
(17:36):
are a beep.
And and one and it's and it'sweird.
One's confidence, and the otherone is supposedly considered a
beep who's on her beep.
And it's like, we don't have todeal with that.
SPEAKER_02 (17:48):
That's very true.
Yeah.
And when we teach commandpresence, that's a big thing we
talk about too is how do youdemonstrate command presence in
if you are in a female role andnot appear to be bossy, even if
you're saying the same thingsthat there's a you know, there's
things that come along, evensize, right?
For a male officer who who's ofa smaller stature, being more
(18:10):
assertive, might appear like,oh, he's got short man syndrome,
right?
And so we we all have uniquechallenges, but that is
something that you know we haveto consider.
SPEAKER_00 (18:20):
Yeah, that'd be tough.
And then and let's just throwthis out there women officers
get hit on a lot by the publicand and by sometimes within
people in their departments, andthat's gotta be tough.
I never walked around mydepartment and felt like all the
women were trying to get myattention and hit on me, but I
know the women feel that way.
Now that we're like you guysdeal with that, that we don't
have to deal with, and sometimesum officers can be out of line,
(18:42):
and that's gotta beuncomfortable in your guys'
shoes, especially if it's acommand staff or something.
You know, us guys, we don't haveto worry about that.
That's gotta be reallyuncomfortable to deal with in an
uncomfortable situation.
Um so how do you guys, I mean,how I say I call everybody guys,
just know that.
Like how do you how do you dothat in a safe way if you are a
(19:06):
female officer?
I know we're kind of going waydifferent here, but if you are a
female officer and the commandstaff is part of their problem,
what what what can we do whenthose issues come up?
If somebody's department istreating them different or or
what am I trying to say here?
And that's fine, we can editthis out.
(19:27):
Um how do you handle yourself inthat situation, I guess?
Because it's gotta be harderbecause you if every time an
officer looks at you or somebodyin the street says something to
you, if you brought it up toyour administration, um, I know
these, I know a lot of theadministration, a lot of them's
gonna tell you to suck it up,get over it, but it can't be
(19:47):
like that.
We can't be telling our femaleofficers to suck that up.
So when we do have that happenon the street, or if or if you
have it happen in yourdepartment, how do you guys, how
have you handled with that, howhave you seen that handled um
in-house?
And I know it's a touchysubject, um, but I do know that
(20:08):
it happens.
SPEAKER_03 (20:10):
And I I I think from uh coaching some of the females
that have gone through theacademy and have had to deal
with some of those issues iscoaching them through of drawing
a line in the sand and beingprepared for if you draw a line
in the sand, you're gonna becalled X, Y, and Z.
(20:30):
But if you don't draw a line inthe sand, this is what you're
gonna be called as well.
And so you have to really umstay true to who you are and um
not let the rumors or not letwhat other people are saying
about you determine your path.
And so I think it's reallyimportant that females have
(20:50):
mentors.
Uh, I think it's importantanybody has mentors, but it's
really difficult for femalesthat are sole in their
departments or sole in theircounties because they don't have
that person they can bounceideas off of.
Uh, but some of the biggeragencies have done a phenomenal
job with uh females going backand having mentors by other
(21:10):
females.
And then if something like thathappens, you have somebody that
they can talk to, talk itthrough with, okay, this is what
I did, or this is what I shouldhave done, and and kind of give
them ideas of what to say andhow to prepare themselves for
it.
SPEAKER_00 (21:26):
That's so wise.
And your leadership on that forthem has to be amazing.
Like you've because if you'venever gone through it, you don't
know.
And to have somebody like youwho's been there and had to deal
with probably you know early onin the 80s where this stuff
wasn't really being talkedabout, it was shut up and get
your job done.
And yeah, for sure.
I love that you're willing to totalk about that openly because
(21:46):
it's it's something that needsto be addressed.
And and part of the reason why Ibring this up is is I want to
all of the all of the femalelisteners to know if you're not
a first responder and it'ssomething you're looking into
looking into, it's safe andthere's a safe way to do it.
There really is, and there'sthere's mentors you can bring
around you, there is a safe wayto do it, and and and honestly,
like anything in our life, itsounds like Sherry, we got to
(22:09):
put boundaries on, we have to beput intentional boundaries on
that as we start our career.
Like otherwise, you'll you'llcross those boundaries, people
will will not know what's okayto say or not to say, and
sometimes that can be confusingbecause what was said the first
one day was okay, but now it'snot.
I think when you set thoseboundaries and you're and you're
firm in them and everybodyunderstands those boundaries,
(22:31):
it's a little healthier.
SPEAKER_03 (22:32):
Yes, correct.
And I and I do think peoplemiscommunicate those boundaries,
you know.
And again, we've had strongfemales come in here and right
off the bat, they're like, Myjob is to get through this
academy and be the best officerI want to be, and they don't
have time for anything else.
And instantly, you know, they'rethey're you know, they're the
person that nobody really wantsto communicate with, or they're
(22:54):
called certain names because ofthose boundaries.
And so it's really uh that's whyI think it's so important to
have females on staff that cantalk them through like, no,
you're doing the right thing.
You've set your boundaries andum you do your job.
SPEAKER_00 (23:08):
How much what so out of the staff here, what's the
percentage of women or men?
Do we know?
Like a wild guess?
SPEAKER_03 (23:15):
Uh so we have uh Naeema and Brooke that are
police officers, uh femaleformer police officers that are
females, and then we have twoother females uh that were in
the victim victim advocate rolesuh uh that are that are females
as well.
SPEAKER_00 (23:31):
Okay, cool.
I love that.
This is this academy is not maledominated at all.
No.
Yeah, like when you come here,you know, it it you're it's not
a male-dominated place, and Ilove how much that's changed
over the year uh years, and Ilove that like you three are
open to talking about it becauseit's happening, we just need to
talk about it.
And I and I think it's prettycool.
So I don't think where I want togo down on this next road, but
(23:59):
what what are what are some ofthe relational ship issues that
can come up as a female firstresponder trying to have a
healthy relationship, but yetbeing in the in the position
where y'all are working, whereit's where it is male dominated,
there's a lot of danger, there'sa lot of I mean it's gotta be
different.
(24:19):
Like my my sweet wife, Icouldn't imagine her putting on
a uniform and going out, like uhit's gotta be hard in those
relationships because I'm suresometimes you have to deal with
the you know, the person thatyou're having a relationship
with also trying to baby you ortrying to so what's what is that
like trying to it's have arelationship as a female first
(24:40):
responder, as a female policeofficer.
Um are the issues kind of thesame they are with guys, or what
is that like?
Do you guys walk out the samedoor?
What when you walk out the door?
Is it the same discussions thatwe're having as we're walking
out?
I know these are dumb questions,but I gotta know.
SPEAKER_01 (24:56):
Well, I would say I was fortunate that my husband
was also in law enforcement oris also in law enforcement.
So um we worked at the samedepartment.
SPEAKER_00 (25:08):
That makes sense.
SPEAKER_01 (25:09):
And we we actually worked the same shift before we
had kids.
SPEAKER_00 (25:12):
God bless you.
SPEAKER_01 (25:13):
Yeah, yeah, that we get that a lot.
That oh man, I couldn't workwith my wife or husband, but um,
for us it worked, and it was alot of fun when we worked
together on shift.
Um so I think that you know itwould it was easier for me
having a partner that knew thejob, knew the people that um I
(25:38):
was gonna be working with orhaving contact with um on a
daily basis in our community.
And um we were able to haveconversations about you know our
cases or our you know contactsand stuff.
So I have a little bit of adifferent experience than maybe
(26:00):
what other women will in lawenforcement.
SPEAKER_00 (26:02):
Yeah, and that's a unique dynamic of its own.
I couldn't imagine working atthe same time with with I work
with my spouse now and I loveit, love and work with her all
the time, but I couldn't imaginebeing on one side of town while
I'm dealing with a drunk andhearing uh gunshots going off on
the other side of town where mywife's at.
I couldn't imagine what thatmust be like.
That's a whole podcast in and ofitself.
Like, wow.
Yeah, that'd be that would bescary.
(26:23):
Um, so did would did you comeinto the career already having a
relationship?
Um Yeah.
And you don't have to share anyof this if you don't want to.
I just I just know that most ofthe stuff we deal with in our
organization is relational,really it's it's it's
relationship issues, moneyissues, mental health issues.
SPEAKER_03 (26:40):
Yeah, and I think relationship issues is a norm
for any service industry.
And I think that goes out, youknow, any first responder, uh,
nurses, like anybody that'sdoing shift work, anybody that
has um that deals with trauma,and because it's really easy as
a first responder, as a policeofficer, to to kind of uh bury a
(27:02):
lot of the stuff that you see,and you want to protect your
spouse, whether it's your wifeor your husband or your partner,
whatever it may be, um you wantto protect them from what you
see.
And so a lot of that stays atwork and you don't bring it
home.
And then so you don't have anoutlet because your friends may
or may not be um in the lawenforcement realm.
(27:25):
And so uh the more you bury it,the more it bubbles up in ways
that you don't realize.
And so I think it's really uhlaw enforcement's one of those
things, like nobody nobody talksabout it, or if they talk about
it, they make a joke.
And you know, we have a warpedsense of humors, and that gets
us through the shift and it itmakes for great stories.
(27:45):
Um uh, but on the other hand,it's relationships are just
really hard when you when youcan't process the trauma that
you see every day because you'redealing with trauma, you're
dealing with dysfunction, andsometimes that dysfunction
follows you right back to home.
SPEAKER_00 (28:02):
Yeah, and for you know, for us guys, we get to
walk out and get in our patrolcar and sometimes not have to
worry about the kids andeverything else going on.
You know, we kind of have thisfreedom or whatever, we get to
skip out the door, but you well,you guys guys all the time, but
you girls don't get to don't getto have that experience.
So it's gotta be unique whenyou're also a mother.
(28:25):
Or let's talk about that.
SPEAKER_03 (28:28):
So I had my daughter when I was a police officer, and
I went back to work uh six orseven weeks after I had her.
And so I was working night shiftand uh going on about three or
four hours sleep a nightthinking I could do it all.
I could watch her during the dayand I could work night shifts,
and um boy, that soon you knowwas a slap in the face that you
(28:49):
can't do it all, which is youknow a ding for for if you want
to be the you know the greatestmother ever.
And and all of a sudden you'rejust like, I'm not doing anybody
any good, and I'm actually adanger in my job.
So you gotta start figuring thatout as well.
SPEAKER_00 (29:04):
Yeah.
So much of uh what we do in ourline of work, I mean, our kids
see it, they're affected by it.
We think they're not, but theysee it all, they feel it all.
And it's gotta be hard to walkout, you know, walking out the
house knowing that you know youryour mother mind is always on.
Your mother mind is always on.
That would be a different tough,especially working all these
different shifts.
Like that would be really toughfor daycare, for anything like
(29:28):
that.
Sure.
And then, you know, court datesfor me when I was in it, like my
wife worked from home, likecourt day was no issue.
I could just go, that'd becompletely different if you got
three kids, and that's justunique challenge.
SPEAKER_03 (29:43):
Yeah, and I think you know, that's across the
board again with any firstresponders uh that you're trying
to just balance it all.
SPEAKER_00 (29:50):
Yeah, it is, man.
SPEAKER_02 (29:53):
I want to say from the other side, um, so I don't
have children, but I rememberearly on feeling like a silent.
Violent pressure to not havechildren.
Like it was a burden on theagency for like, oh, don't tell
me you're gonna get pregnantbecause you you're a young
officer, and those comments aregoing on.
Um, not not just in general inin life, right?
(30:14):
As females are getting into theprofession and then like a
pressure of fitting back intoyour uniform, fitting back into
your vest.
And I remember thinking, like,oh no, I don't want to have to
do that, or watching, you know,a female officer go on light
duty and be like stripped of herrole as a police officer.
And it was almost looked on likethis, like I said, like silent
burden, like, oh, we've got tocover shifts because they're
(30:36):
pregnant.
And just recently, even havingconversations uh with a female
officer around the state who'sextremely nervous because they
became pregnant and they're, youknow, don't know what to do in
terms of like their rolesbecause they have a physical
function and what that lookslike, um, and navigating the
pressure to not have children.
(30:58):
And then outside of the state,learning uh a sergeant struggle
of being a female sergeant goingon light duty and being stripped
of the title, even thoughthere's other desk sergeants,
not even being able to like kindof listen to the radio and
having conversations like mypreg pregnancy isn't a
disability, like I can stillmake informed decisions.
(31:20):
And so I think now looking backearly on, it really guided my
decisions and being reallynervous about having a child in
this profession because there'sso many added elements.
SPEAKER_00 (31:32):
Thank you for saying that because that's true.
And I've been guilty of it whenI was a young officer.
When a female officer gotpregnant, oh gosh, the shifts
are gonna change, she's gonna goto light duty, of course.
Gosh, she just had one lastyear.
What is wrong?
She don't even like her husband.
I'm like, you get this is whathappens.
Um wow, yeah.
Thank you for bringing that up.
That's uh that's real, that's areal issue.
(31:56):
Um sorry, let me read this realquick.
So do you think people, so doyou think like people are
holding off on families,probably?
SPEAKER_02 (32:07):
I definitely think people are holding off on
family.
SPEAKER_00 (32:09):
Sorry, I can get off this thought.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (32:11):
Yeah.
And you know, even as uh we seethe newer female officers coming
through now of when you talkabout wanting to show improve,
you don't think about I know thereal pressure is the physical
demand.
And think about it, as a womanwho has a child, your body
changes, right?
And so how you fit into yourvest, like, oh great, now it's
(32:31):
gonna cost us another vest, ornow you know you got, I mean, I
didn't even know my assistantdirector came back six weeks
later.
Six weeks later, does youruniform even fit the same?
Like, do you you're you're youknow, if you're gonna
breastfeed?
I don't know if I could say thatin the bathroom or the locker
room, yeah.
(32:52):
Yeah, uh, you know, and so Ihear stories from you know
officers that came before me,and I'm like, oh no, I don't
want to have that added.
SPEAKER_00 (33:00):
Yeah, that's unfortunate, it really is.
That the the the women arethinking that way that they
getting pregnant would be a aburden.
SPEAKER_02 (33:07):
And so when you talk about relational strain, you
know, when you're young and aguy wants to get married or
wants to have children andyou're like, I just got into my
job, and I know um, you know,I've been asked a lot to leave
my profession, and so it's adifferent type of dynamic, I
would say.
SPEAKER_00 (33:27):
Wow.
I love your guys' openness totalk about that.
I think that's I think that'sinteresting.
SPEAKER_01 (33:32):
I think it it definitely limits um, you know,
how big they want to make theirfamily as well.
So just with there being a lotof expectations, right?
Um, you're going to court, youhave extra training, you may be
mandatoried.
And so it isn't a normal um, youknow, eight-hour shift.
(34:00):
So that impacts, you know, umhow many children you might
have.
My husband and I kind of madethat decision.
I always wanted to kind of havea larger family.
Um, and then with both of usbeing in law enforcement, once
we had kids, we were like shipspassing the night because it was
cheaper for us to be on oppositeshifts than to try to find
daycare for really odd hours.
(34:22):
So we, you know, saw each otherwhen we were um coming home and
one was leaving for work.
And like you said, Sherry, Imean, I remember um working
overnights and I had, you know,a three or a four-year-old that
wasn't going to school yet, andI'd put him on the couch with me
and we'd watch cartoons, andyou'd wake up four hours later,
like, oh my gosh, I fell asleep,you know, but still having to do
(34:45):
those, still having to work whenyou're why God made women
stronger, more wise.
SPEAKER_00 (34:53):
I mean, you guys have all the gifts and talents,
and uh uh we just kind of got Idon't know what rib you guys
took, but it must have been ourknowledge rib, our I don't know
what it is, but you guys are yougals are made different.
You just are, and I I couldn'timagine going through this
career with the the I don't wantto say issues, the the the
things that come with it.
Being a human, right?
(35:14):
Yeah, and having a family.
Yeah.
Wow.
Well, we're gonna close this up,but I do want to do more of
these down the road if you guysum are open to it.
I really appreciate this, butwe've got about 35 minutes, and
there's so many more questions Iwant to ask.
And I do want to apologize.
I know I ask really dumbquestions, like really dumb, and
sometimes they're they're um Ijust kind of say how it is.
(35:38):
Like guys, I've seen the guys,first responders, can be jerks,
can treat them different, andit's it's it's disgusting, and I
just like to call it out becauseI couldn't imagine what that
would be like to go to gothrough.
Um so thank you for that.
SPEAKER_02 (35:51):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (35:55):
This is a good question.
Before we close out.
I'll I'll pass me.
I don't even know this is thequestion, but this is the
question I have.
Do we do the are the vices thatwe do, we numb our pain with our
struggles, do they change forwomen?
Like with guys, it's very muchadrenaline, uh, alcohol,
gambling, like skydiving, likejust like is there any is is it
(36:18):
different?
How how or is it generallyalcohol is the number one thing?
Is it all just the same?
Because we're all just humans.
It's not like uh uh your sexmatters, or is there a
difference?
SPEAKER_03 (36:34):
Well I don't uh I I I can't speak for for everybody
else.
I would just say, you know, uhfor me um uh they were
different.
Uh it was never alcohol, it wasnever gambling.
I was just uh I have a veryaddictive personality.
Um and so I know that aboutmyself.
So I stay away from things thatI know I are not good that I
(36:56):
would be addicted to.
Um for me it was more sports.
Um for me it was uh reading,that type of stuff.
Um so that's that's kind of whatI was drawn to when I was a
police officer, is is that typeof stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (37:13):
So yeah, and I noticed a lot of female officers
are more into their fitness thanguys are too.
I feel like that's a thing thatsometimes fitness is a way of
escape.
I don't know, is there any othervices or anything that like and
when I say that is things thingswe run from, right?
SPEAKER_02 (37:29):
I didn't know this was a vice until working with
Chap and talking, and because Inever had the these
conversations before, but Iwould literally capitalize every
second of my day.
So I was working patrol andBrooke knows this.
I would leave my patrol shiftand then I was in a full-time
band.
And so I would travel around andI would play in this band, or
(37:52):
I'm going to rehearsals, or Iwas a backup dancer for another
band.
So I had this whole separateidentity, you know, that I
formed.
So I didn't really think about,you know, the job.
Like I deal with something, andthen in my friend group, I
didn't have in my friendsoutside of law enforcement, no
one um that I talked to aboutit.
And often I disappear into theserealms where no one even knew I
(38:14):
was a police officer.
I so I maybe think was acceptinga whole different identity.
So I completely separated theselives and then I take off that
uniform and literally forgetabout the job and then
capitalize.
I maybe was sleeping maybe two,three hours and maybe it was
being busy all the time.
SPEAKER_00 (38:32):
Being busy, that's what it was.
Another thing is first we're wesign up for all the overtime,
it's busy, busy, busy.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, so maybe that was that wasmy well.
Thank you for answering my dumbquestions.
I'll have more, I'm sure, downthe road.
But um, sometimes I like to askthe questions that I hear other
men ask me.
And uh so thank you.
Yeah, I appreciate it.
And we're gonna close this up.
(38:53):
Thank you for all being on, andwe'll be back at the academy
recording some more.
I know we kind of just touchedon some, you know, we only want
to inch deep on a lot of things,um, but we'll go deeper.
So thank you all for being here.
I appreciate it.
Um, y'all are a blessing, andthank you for doing what you do.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_04 (39:08):
Thank you.
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