October 21, 2025 • 35 mins
The patrol car might be quiet, but your brain isn’t—bills, overtime slots, and that sinking feeling when the card declines. We went back inside the Academy to sit with finance officer Jack Heuton and get honest about money, mental health, and the hidden costs of “I’ll just pick up more shifts.” This is a conversation about readiness that starts at home: when your base needs are secure, training lands better, sleep runs deeper, and relationships stop fraying at the edges.
Jack breaks down a practical, three-prong plan that works in real life: understand and manage your credit without letting it manage you, track every dollar so denial can’t hide in the margins, and choose a debt payoff method that fuels behavior change. We unpack why an emergency fund is the single best fight-stopper in a marriage, how dopamine purchases and gambling apps exploit trauma and fatigue, and why most of us try to “out-overtime” our spending—only to miss the moments we say matter most. The stories are raw, the examples familiar: toys that collect dust because you’re never off, arguments that start with a swipe, and the quiet repair work of choosing presence over more pay.
We also push forward: joint accountability instead of “my money vs. your money,” spending thresholds that require a quick check-in, and retirement planning that begins before 40 steals your compounding. Know your pension, your Social Security timeline, and the inflation reality that waits downrange. Even small, automated contributions can buy future calm, fewer late-career overtime hours, and a life with more choice. If faith anchors you, align your budget with what you value most; generosity and stewardship can steady the heart where numbers alone can’t.
Hit play if you’re ready to trade chaos for clarity—one tracked expense, one paid-off balance, one honest conversation at a time. If this helped, follow the show, share it with a teammate, and leave a quick review so more first responders can find tools that stick.
If you or someone you know is in crisis and at risk of self-harm, please call or text 988, the suicide and crisis lifeline.
To contact us directly send an email to Dan@10-42project.org or call 515-350-6274
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the Shared
Voices podcast brought to you by1042 Project.
And we're still at the Academy.
If you got to hear the lastepisode, we came out to the
Academy.
Um, they ended up finding us.
We tried to hide from it.
No.
We came out here and theyallowed us in.
And we sat down and we had areal conversation with the
director and and with with uhChristy and with and Chaplain Al
(00:23):
Perez, and we had a realconversation, and I think it was
pretty powerful.
Um I appreciate them allowing meto come in and ask my stupid
questions.
But now we have uh a specialguest that I want to talk to
because Jack, number one, thankyou for being here.
Yep, you you know the mission ofour organization, you know what
we do.
Generally, uh the top one to twothings when a first responder
(00:47):
reaches out in crisis, money'swrapped in either the first or
the second.
So many of our first responders,when we struggle with mental
health or we come into the lineof work, we don't, we may not be
used to having this kind ofmoney, even though it's not a
lot.
Um and and we we kind of screwedup in a hurry.
I'm just gonna be honest.
And when you're supposed to bethe pillar of the community, I
(01:08):
know for me, I struggled withit.
I tried to I tried to treat mymental health by spending money,
by buying things like boats andcampers.
And it led to a very dark timein me and my ex-wife's life that
led towards a lot of financialissues, a lot of marriage
issues.
Um, cleared down to our homebeing foreclosed on.
And and I know it's a hardsubject to talk about, but I
(01:30):
know there's a lot of youlisteners that are that are kind
of going through that, and itcan be tough because we're
supposed to have all of ourstuff put together, is what the
world says.
We're supposed to be above thestandards of everybody else, but
we're just people.
We're just people and and Jack,thank you for being on.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself and why the heck you
even care.
Why do you care about whatpeople, these first responders
and their finances?
SPEAKER_03 (01:51):
Well, for one, um, so my name's Jack Huton.
I'm the finance manager orfinancial officer here at the
Academy.
Um, I care about firstresponders because I I feel that
uh sometimes they're not backedor they don't.
Um people don't appreciate whatthey do on a daily basis.
And uh there are times wherethey do things that are uh
(02:12):
nothing short of miraculous.
And um, so I I do what I can tobasically help anybody in
general, but um I do have apassion for first responders,
military members.
Um, you know, I have uh firstresponders, officers, and
military members in my family.
So you know that hits home forme.
SPEAKER_00 (02:31):
From day one, when I met you, how I introduced me to
you, um, I knew right away thekind of heart you had.
Like you, it's just who you are,you shine it from you.
You're a very loving, caringperson, very welcoming.
And I've loved from day one whenwe first talked, we started
talking about the money issuesand some of the struggles that I
see in the first respondersreaching out.
And that's why I wanted to bringyou on.
(02:51):
Is because money is hard to talkabout, right?
Let's be real.
It's it's something we don't alot of times want to share with
people.
Most of us are honest, you know,about it, and we try to we try
to cover it up and makeourselves look better than than
what we are because that's thethat's the next Facebook post
you want to make, right?
Is is show that one with yournew boat so you can show your
buddy that you, you know, andit's just constant keeping up
(03:12):
with the Joneses, what they usedto call it, Al.
I don't know if the Joneses arestill still around, but we're
trying to keep up with them,apparently.
And Al, and and Al, real quick,I'm glad you're on here because
you get to see it too, myfriend.
You get to see it personally,and and you get to see it when
they first get to the academy.
And I think that's what'simportant with both of you.
You get to these recruits whenthey get here.
Some of them have no financialunderstanding, and some have
(03:34):
they're set in their own ways,and you ain't gonna tell them
anything, and that's fine.
But you two come alongside themand and you address it.
You talk about that money sidebecause it can be hard.
And and I've seen careers end.
Um it's pretty ugly.
And I love that Jack's willingto sit down, Al's willing to sit
down, and we're gonna addressthis issue.
So we're gonna dive right in.
You ready, Jack?
Yeah, absolutely.
All right, bro.
One-on-one, let's go.
(03:55):
All right, all right.
So, how does the financial howhow does finances impact the
mental health in yourrelationships?
I see it all the time, but let'sbreak it down and unpack some of
that.
SPEAKER_03 (04:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
So uh people under financialstrain are uh more likely, or
actually two and a half timesmore likely, to experience
anxiety and depression, um,which really flows into poor
sleep quality and uh and alsocreates high blood pressure,
cardiovascular issues.
I mean, there's a lot of thingsthat come into play with uh
(04:25):
finances and fretting about yourfinances, constant anxiety and
what that does to your body.
But also uh mentally it goesinto low self-esteem, uh sense
of self-worth, which kind ofleads into depression.
You have your feelings of shame,failure, hopelessness, um, even
down sometimes of suicidalthoughts.
You know, uh there's there's areason they say during the um
(04:47):
holidays, you know, suicide ismore prevalent.
Some of that, you know, comesdown to you know uh depression
and also plays into financialissues uh during those times.
There's a lot of pressure,financial pressure during
holidays, especially aroundChristmas and whatnot.
So um it really does play a uhhave a big impact in your mental
(05:07):
health and the relationshipsthat you have, because when this
creeps into your relationships,um when you're experiencing a
lot of financial issues, youhave social withdrawal.
Um you can also, it can be astrain on your intimacy, uh,
which can cause emotionaldistance between your partner.
Um, and then let's say you startgoing out and gambling, um, or
(05:29):
you're hiding debt from yourpartner, uh, which I've seen um,
you know, amongst friends andstuff, and and you start lying
about purchases you make, andthat causes a major breach in
your marriage.
Um, so there's that erosion oftrust in your marriage, and then
the marital conflict, um, youknow, where you're arguing, it
leads to uh it's money is themajor leading cause of
(05:52):
arguments, divorce, separationamongst couples.
Um, you know, it a lot of peoplesay or try to act like money
doesn't affect them or moneyisn't a thing, and it really is.
Um, and and I, you know, I I Ifeel that it affects people more
than they realize.
And and they might be bad aboutsomething, they might be
fretting about their theirfinancial issues that they're
(06:15):
having, and then they take itout on their partner, and then
later on, you you know, you'redoing reflect back and think
where did that come from?
Yeah.
And and it's because you've beenfretting about finances this
whole time.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:26):
So other than that, there's no reason to talk about
finances, you know, no issuesare wrapped around it.
And yeah, yeah, right.
But no, it's one of the keythings because when we talk
about our hierarchy, ourhierarchy of needs, you know,
Maslow's hierarchy of needs,when it comes to you know,
getting better, getting healing,um, there's certain things we
have to have before we can kindof focus on that, right?
(06:47):
We need to have our our financesin a safe place where we feel
like, okay, we're safe.
We have a home, we have a car,we can, so these things are
taken care of.
And then and then um if thoseneeds are not taken care of,
it's hard to build thefoundation to build it up any
higher because you're going tobe focused back on the this
money side.
Yeah.
So the hierarchy of needs, if wecan start addressing those, it's
(07:09):
a pyramid.
If we can start addressing thoseat the base, and generally a lot
of that can be financial, or atthe second step can be
financial.
Um if we can help at that level,it will allow people to then
move on to the next step of loveand belonging, where you can
focus on self-esteem, you canfocus on self-improvement, you
can focus on that.
But it's pretty hard to do ifyou don't know if you have a
(07:30):
home to sleep in at night,right?
SPEAKER_03 (07:32):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (07:33):
So, and and sometimes people come here and
and their hierarchy of needs isnot being met.
They're coming here.
I know when I came here, I camehere 20 years old with a car
that Barry ran and a negativeaccount in my a negative account
in my and I walked in here likeI had no idea how to run
finances, nor did I really care,honestly.
(07:53):
Yeah, you know, because I waskind of young, dumb, and and
just didn't think I'd be aroundanyway.
Um, but I love that you'readdressing this because if the
whole time they're at theacademy, they're focused on
their you know, their well-beingand their income, they're never
gonna be able to focus on thetraining.
They're not.
SPEAKER_03 (08:10):
Yeah, it's always in the back of your mind.
SPEAKER_00 (08:11):
Yeah.
So we can we can address thesethings, we we can bring them up
front and we can startprocessing them.
Because you can just you can seeJack just listed what can
happen, you know, the financialstrains, what it does to to a
relationship and to a person.
And so many of us firstresponders, Jack, like myself,
uh the listeners heard me saythis before.
When I was in my career, when Iwas in my career, um things
(08:35):
started rolling.
I started getting paid, and andI started getting exposed to
trauma.
I started buying things, and atfirst it was kind of fun because
I had a little bit of money todo it.
Right.
Um, and then I got a house andother things, and I so I was
taking care of my hierarchy ofneeds, but at the same time, I
was jumping over those and goingafter my wants.
The things I wanted now.
Um and it led to, you know, ledto um electricity being turned
(08:58):
off from time to time.
It led to all sorts of I mean,we were in major credit card
debt, major debt on and everylevel you could be.
And and I just kept digging usdeeper with my mental health.
Well, I gotta have that truck, Igotta have that camper, I gotta
have that four-wheeler, I gottahave that boat, because that's
what's gonna help me to be ableto make it another day or be
(09:19):
able to survive is I need thesemental health breaks.
But Jack, every department hasthese boards inside their police
departments where you can signup for overtime.
So so many of us are working our40-hour weeks and then some, and
then we're but we're working allthis overtime where we're
bringing in more money, and nowwe have we have bills a mile
(09:41):
high, and our mental health isstill struggling, and it can get
ugly and out of out of controlin a hurry.
SPEAKER_03 (09:47):
Well, unfortunately, what you see a lot of times with
impulse buying, because when youbuy something, it's just like
when you eat something, you getthat dopamine hit, it makes you
feel good, right?
And so if you're strugglingalready financially or you you
already have a low self-esteemand buying things, a lot of
people try to self-cope with I'mgonna buy this, I'm gonna buy
that, it makes me feel good inthat moment, you know, and then
(10:08):
you have that buyer's remorseafterwards, but you can very
quickly have debt get away fromyou.
Um, you know, and then like yousaid, you have this overtime you
can sign up for to help pay forall those debts that you
acquire.
But a lot of times after you paythem off, you just end up
pulling out another debt.
Um, and oh, I can now affordthis, let me buy this.
And you know, you wanna youwanna um buy all these toys so
(10:32):
that way when you're with yourfamily, you can uh have fun.
So you get the speed boat, youget the jet skis, right?
Because you've never seen a sadperson on a jet ski before,
right?
So uh but the problem is youhave to work all this overtime.
So when are you gonna have thetime to actually be on the boat
or the jet ski?
You know, I can I can tell youyour family would much rather
see you more often than have aboat or a jet ski that's not
(10:53):
being used because you're notaround to use it.
SPEAKER_00 (10:54):
Thank you for saying that.
Because thank you for sayingthat, because that's true.
So many of us are walking awayfrom our families and our kids
to go work a football game andand to work a valley football
game and to stand there for fourhours on a Friday night while
your family's at home.
What should have been your nightout, your night off is now you
signed up and now you're you'reout there.
And I know I'm saying thisbecause I've been there.
(11:15):
We always say our families arenumber one priorities.
We say our kids are our numberone priorities as we're walking
out the door to go do thatstuff.
Right.
And our actions speak louderthan our words.
And I've no, because I I I havethree kids at five now, but
three when I was um goingthrough the my mental health
stuff, and we put a we can put alot of weight on our kids.
SPEAKER_03 (11:33):
Well, and I've heard uh can't remember who said it,
but somebody said uh the mostcrucial time for you to be
around for your kids is that agebetween, you know, like one and
four, one and five.
Um, and you only get that timeonce.
Yeah.
The mo the the time that you seeyour kids the most, you're gonna
know them the most in theiradult life.
The time that you have with themwhen they're young and
(11:54):
impressionable is very short.
Yes.
So to miss out on all thosemoments, you know, is is really
a tragedy.
SPEAKER_00 (12:02):
Yeah, and I'm still repairing that.
I'm just gonna be honest.
Like my kids and I have a greatrelationship, but I know as a
dad I let them down in thoseareas, and you know, and the
best thing I can do is justcontinue to improve and show
them.
But we cause hurt, we cause alot more hurt to our family than
we realize when it comes to thisovertime stuff.
Yeah.
I I've I've said this before onother podcasts, and I'm sure
(12:23):
maybe the academy wouldn't agreewith me, but I would like to get
it down to where firstresponders are working four
four-day work weeks.
I think if anybody in the in theworld who needs to be working a
lesser schedule, I would lovefor those get paid the same,
obviously.
Right.
But instead of working an80-hour work week, they're
working 70 hours, maybe thatother 10 hours, you know,
(12:44):
consider that their health andwellness time.
Right.
But we need these breaks becauseman, we get exposed to trauma
and trauma and trauma, and thenwe come home, we gotta deal with
our family, and a lot of timesthat's trauma and money, and
then we go back to work, andit's a cycle of suck, Jack, that
can be hard to get out of.
SPEAKER_03 (12:58):
Well, yeah, I mean, and and you know, any person
usually when they get off work,they need that little bit of
downtime to kind of to reset.
And uh, I can only imagine as afirst responder, the amount of
things the the things that yousee uh that you'll never forget,
you know, and and and whenyou're constantly on the go, you
(13:19):
don't get any time to processthat.
Yeah.
And you know, that thatdefinitely would play a role.
SPEAKER_00 (13:25):
Yeah.
So to have a healthy financialfinancial life, it is it's not
gonna happen by accident.
It's not.
We have to be intentional.
Yep.
So let's get down to someintentionality here.
And I I want to talk about wetalked about some of the vices,
but I want to talk to them, talkto you about some more.
Gambling is legal in Iowa now.
Um, it seems like firstresponders were very much uh
(13:47):
adrenaline driven and dopamine.
You're hitting those littlebetting apps, and and it sounds
like a lot of these gamblingapps are causing a lot of issues
for people.
Um why why do so many of us runto those high adrenaline type
financial things?
The things that really are weshould be holding most dearly,
we run to those.
(14:07):
Like, why are we doing that?
Why are we running to gamblingand stuff like that?
SPEAKER_03 (14:11):
Yeah, so uh, you know, first responders do
struggle and they have a highproclivity to gambling,
basically because uh, and wetalked about this a little bit,
but their exposure, um, the uhthe uh severity of the exposure
of and and how often they'reexposed to these traumatic
events are at a frequency farbeyond what the general public
would see, so which results inthe the PTSD, which you guys are
(14:34):
gonna understand a lot more thanI will about that and can talk
to it more about me than me.
But um, you know, when you havePTSD, you have this need for
this release, which uh we talkedabout those um impulsive uh
financial decisions.
I'm gonna buy this, I'm gonnabuy that.
It makes me feel good.
Um exactly.
So you have those impulsecontrol issues, but also you
(14:56):
have avoidance and numbing, iswhere you're gonna see the
drinking.
Um you're trying to uhself-medicate this emotional
pain and trauma.
So you might go drink or youmight go gambling.
You know, you you go to acasino, you see these machines,
and they have all these lightsflashing and the sounds, and I
mean it draws you in.
There's a reason for that, youknow.
Um just like a kid on an iPad,it's just constant dopamine to
(15:17):
your brain, right?
So it's it's addictive.
Um, and then because of thestigma, and and most men anyway
don't talk about their issues,um, but then you have uh these
emotional issues, and there'sthis stigma that um I I think,
like you said, uh you have to bethe strong personality.
You you can't go seek helpbecause you're the person
everyone runs to for help.
(15:38):
That's the stigma.
Yeah, so you turn away from thepsychological or even financial
counseling, and then when youturn away from that, then you
embrace these bad copingmechanisms basically.
SPEAKER_00 (15:50):
And when you're struggling with your mental
health, I know this fromexperience.
You can justify anything toyourself.
Yeah.
I mean, just to be open and raw.
Like there was times where myfamily didn't have the money to
keep the light bill on, but Iwould keep a stash so I could
have vodka.
You know, like yeah, we'remaking some really bad decisions
at this point, right?
(16:10):
Like and and that's where I was,and and a lot of the not a lot,
but I don't want to categorizeeverybody, but some of the first
responders we deal with is kindof the same thing.
They're kind of dealing withwith with that as well.
SPEAKER_03 (16:24):
Um and when when somebody, you know, let's say
somebody approaches you with thedecision you made, um, you know,
most people are gonna be quickto get on the defensive and
justify why they did what theydid.
You know, and so it it's hard tobe uh to have some reflection
and and some you know someself-judgment there to to really
(16:45):
stop and and think, hey, youknow what I'm doing, because
what you're doing in the timefeels good.
Um it makes you feel good tospend money or or go gamble or
this or that.
And and and it's it's facingthat and saying, okay, well, if
I stop, then I'm really gonnahave to face the problem.
Yeah.
And and that's where it's hardto do.
SPEAKER_00 (17:04):
Yeah, because it's facing it's the hard part.
Yeah.
Because there's there's there'sinherent like guilt and shame
that comes along with it.
Yeah.
Um, which shouldn't, but thereis.
And and it's hard to breakthrough that.
I mean, that was the biggestthing to me was my ego.
I wasn't gonna ask anybody forhelp, you know, like it gets
ugly in a hurry.
(17:25):
Um I've got so many questionsthat we're running out of time,
Al.
Good thing we're gonna have Jackback here though, guys.
Seriously, because it's one ofthe big things you guys reach
out about.
Um, and for some of us, I justwant to address this real quick.
For some of us that are reallybad that can be in a really bad
mental health place like I wasin the past, it can be hard to
(17:47):
think about planning for thefuture because you don't feel
like you're gonna be part of thefuture.
Um I know for me, um, I didn'twant to plan for the future
because I I didn't I plan ondying before that.
And it's a very sick mindthought, you know, mindset, but
that's where I was, and there'ssome other people that that's
kind of where where you are.
But I would just ask you guys weas we talk about this, when it
(18:09):
comes to financial planning andgetting your and getting
yourself um set up right orgetting out of a hole of your
debt, um getting help with thatand getting through that with
somebody, um it can do twothings.
It can either draw your marriagecloser or it can push it apart.
But if you allow your financesto for you and your and your
spouse to be able to talk aboutyour finances openly, um, and
(18:31):
sometimes that's that meansyou're gonna be have to have
some uncomfortableconversations.
Um, but getting on the same onthe same page with each other,
and honestly, for the ones thatare really struggling bad, you
know who you are.
I know you you you don't careabout you may not be around in
the future, but let's do thinkabout our families.
And I think what Jack um a lotof stuff he talks about with
with financial wealth and andthis type of stuff, even if you
(18:55):
may not feel like it's for you,and I know that sounds sick, but
let's think about our familieshere moving forward because um
we do care about them.
I know y'all care about yourfamilies.
And sometimes I know for me,getting help for myself was no
thanks, but I would get help ifit meant it was helping my
family.
You know what I mean?
Because sometimes we won't wedon't want to do it for our for
(19:15):
ourselves, but let's shift to tonow let's shift to having a
healthy, a healthy financialrelationship, you know, a
healthy career.
Yeah.
Coming into it.
Um what do you guys talkfinancially about in your
classes here at the academy thatfor your recruits?
What what are you equiping with?
What type of advice?
And you don't have to go intothe whole the whole thing, but
(19:38):
like if you had to wrap thisfinancial class up, right?
It's a financial class.
What's the purpose of it?
SPEAKER_03 (19:45):
So the purpose that um, or my purpose, uh uh to give
them the tips that they need toget their financial house in
order.
Like you said, um, it doesn'thappen by accident, it has to be
intentional.
And and I I think in the back ofpeople's minds when they're
struggling financially, theyknow they are, they're just not
ready to face it yet.
And um I it's really so what Iwhat I cover is a three-prong um
(20:11):
uh uh approach?
Yes, thank you.
A three-prong approach of one,understanding your credit score,
why is your credit score the wayit is, know how to pull your
credit or score credit score,and also how to maintain a good
credit score.
Um, the next one is gonna bedebt control.
And we go over um tracking yourdebts, understanding um where
(20:31):
your debts are coming from,because it, you know, a lot of
people are saying, well, I needto save money.
Well, if you don't know whatyou're spending, how are you
gonna save it?
You have to know where yourmoney's going.
So getting in never knew.
Yeah, right.
A lot of us don't, or we dowhere we uh absolutely tend to
ignore it and look the otherway.
Um, so like I have an app on myphone that uh connects to my
(20:53):
bank account and and itcategorizes my expenses for me.
I can see how much are we eatingout, how much are we spending on
entertainment, how much are, youknow, which gets you to start
thinking, well, if I was savingthat, you know, what would that
in the future be worth?
You know?
Um and then so we talk about uhdebt cons or not debt
consolidation, but like uh debtsnowball, um, getting out of
(21:13):
debt, showing also credit carddebts.
I mean, credit cards are it it'scrazy the amount of consumer
debt.
There's over$18 trillion inconsumer debt.
And this is last year's figures,over 18 trillion in consumer
debt, and 1.2 or 1.3 is iscredit cards.
SPEAKER_00 (21:29):
That's disgusting.
SPEAKER_03 (21:30):
It's crazy.
And um, you know, 73% ofAmericans die in debt, which
means that gets passed on toyour kids, you know, because you
have assets when you die, orhopefully you do.
Um, but those get caught up indebts and probate.
So it's really about gettingthem to this mindset of of
(21:51):
buying what you need and notjust what you want, being
purposeful with your money andthen and then um paying down
your debts as fast as you can,getting to that that debt
freedom you want to experience.
Because I can tell you, payingsomething off gives you a lot
more joy than buying somethingnew.
SPEAKER_00 (22:06):
Or paying cash up front.
Yeah instead of say or savingfor the and using the cash up
front.
Like I know a lot of financialthings focus on credit score,
but sometimes credit score, itseems like, and I could be
wrong, seems like sometimes ifyou're not using credit, you're
not using credit cards, yourcredit score goes down, and then
people are like, Oh, you need toput more on credit.
SPEAKER_03 (22:22):
Um, and that's one way, but uh there's also
something to be said of ofpaying cash for something that's
I mean it it's okay to have acredit card, but those companies
are banking on you not payingyour debt off.
I mean, that's where they'regonna get their money from.
SPEAKER_00 (22:36):
They built a new building just because of me.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (22:39):
Yeah, I've I you know I I have to I have to
admit, I've thrown quite a bitof money in their building too,
right?
So um credit cards, it you haveto be very purposeful with them.
They can be good if you use themthe right way.
If you use a credit card, likefor me, I use mine just for gas
because I've been I've had mycard stolen, the card
information stolen at a pumpbefore.
(23:01):
So a credit card is a loteasier.
They can cover that cost anddelete it off your card, right?
I'm not gonna use my checkingaccount card at the gas pump
because I've had it happen.
And then all of a sudden I seethis charge for 800 some odd
dollars at Pet Smart, and thenI'm texting my wife, like, what
are you doing?
And yeah, it wasn't yeah, she'slike, What are you talking
about?
I'm sitting at home.
(23:21):
I'm like, no, you're atPetSmart.
And no, this this guy uh scammedmy scammed my card, took my
information, created a new card,and bought a bunch of gift cards
from PetSmart, and then he wasgone out of the out of the city
before they could catch him.
So I use my credit card only forgas.
Um, and then I make sure I payit off every two weeks, or you
(23:43):
could pay it off every month.
But the whole point is to pay itoff before you incur interest.
Um, and the the credit companiesbanking on that, you won't do
that.
I wonder what percentage ofpeople actually do that.
Like, probably not very many.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:56):
I mean, most because I used a credit card as well.
I'm out of money, I don't getpaid for another week.
Yep.
I'm still gonna go do all thethings I want to do.
The majority on the bill andthen never happens.
SPEAKER_03 (24:07):
The majority of people use it to float, right?
Um, because we earned it.
SPEAKER_00 (24:10):
So don't you know I earned I earned to be able to go
buy this because I have had I'vebeen working long days.
I've been it's been stressful.
Me and my wife have beenarguing.
So I deserve to go out and spendthis money.
Exactly.
The justifications, right?
We do it all the time.
SPEAKER_03 (24:24):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (24:24):
I still catch myself doing it.
SPEAKER_03 (24:26):
And and so what people should really move to is
um excuse me, should move tohaving an emergency fund, right?
You move to have an emergencyfund in your savings account or
a high yield savings account,whatever you want to put in, but
it needs to be liquid where youcan pull it out.
Because one what happens is whenyou have a credit card, you
know, it seems like anytime youget money, your car craps out,
(24:47):
something happens, right?
And then you're swiping yourcredit card, then it takes
forever to pay it off.
And you're paying interest onit, paying interest on it.
Because something else happensin the meantime, and now you
gotta, yeah, exactly.
So if you just have an emergencysavings account, that would be
my first step would be um start,yeah, track your expenses, but
start looking into creating anemergency savings account so
(25:08):
that way when something doeshappen, it there's a lot less
arguments, right?
I don't have to, you know, let'ssay, let's say something happens
and then um you have to swipeyour credit card and now you
have the arguments with yourspouse again because you're
constantly trying to pay thiscredit card off.
Well, you have an emergencysavings account, something
happens.
There is no arguments.
Yeah, you you just pay it, andthen you rebolster that
(25:31):
emergency uh savings as timegoes on, you know.
And then after that, um, youknow, then you want to start
looking into you know the debtsnowball, paying down your debt.
You can do debt snowball or debtavalanche.
Um there's two differentmethods.
It's debt avalanche is you paydown your highest interest rates
first, regardless of how big theloan is.
SPEAKER_00 (25:50):
As opposed to the other way where you start with
the smallest.
SPEAKER_03 (25:52):
You start with the smallest.
So finance is 20% knowledge and80% behaviors.
It's not guess.
Well, sometimes, right?
For me, I just guessed.
Um, so it it really isbehavioral.
So um the reason the debtsnowball works is because as
you're uh paying things off, youstart seeing rewards, right?
(26:14):
It's all about seeing thoserewards.
If you do the avalanche method,and let's say you're paying on
something for four years andit's not paid off yet.
I mean, how long are you gonna,let's say it's a diet, how long
are you gonna stick to a dietand see zero results?
Right.
So you start with the the debtsnowball, and then as you pay
something off, it it kind ofmakes you feel good, and then it
it reels you back in, and thenyou pay the next thing off, you
(26:35):
feel good.
It's all about behavior and andthe psychological aspect of it,
you know.
SPEAKER_00 (26:40):
Um that's how I that's how I number one, I for
one time it happened severaltimes, but I use a debt
consolidation, they help me kindof get settle some stuff.
Um that helped.
Yeah, but I'm losing my train ofthought.
What are you just saying?
This happens all the time.
Now I get tired.
I don't even know anymore.
Anyway, but I do we're gettingready to close up and I'm gonna
(27:01):
ask you this, and we're gonnahave you on more.
Yeah.
But I get this, I get asked thisa lot.
Should I have my own accountseparate from my wife?
I hear this all the time.
I'm tired of her, I'm tired ofher, I'm tired of her.
Oh, wrong button.
I'm tired of her complaining allthe time.
I'm tired of all this.
(27:22):
I want to have my own account.
It's my job, my money.
We'll share the bills.
A lot of times I get phone callswhere there's arguments going on
where she didn't pay her partand he's let her have it, or
she's letting him have it.
What's your thoughts on this?
Because I hear all differentways.
My wife and I, we shareeverything.
We don't have anything separate.
Um, what's your thought?
SPEAKER_03 (27:41):
Uh, my personal thought on it is I would rather
have it joint.
I I feel like when when whenyou're married under God, you
become one.
Yep.
Right.
And um, that also plays in thefinances.
I I have friends that do theirfinances separately and they're
constantly arguing with eachother because, as you just said,
one person's carrying most ofthe weight and the other
person's doing what they want.
(28:03):
When you have a joint account,um, it forces you to work
together as you should be doing,and you can hold each other
accountable.
If I go buy a gun withouttalking to my wife, she's gonna
say, Hey, you just spent$800.
Like, you didn't even talk to mefirst, right?
It it helps you hold each otheraccountable.
And that's exactly what amarried couple should do.
(28:24):
You keep each other in theright, you hold each other
accountable, and not to punisheach other.
SPEAKER_00 (28:28):
It's not that a lot so many of these money arguments
turn into, I mean, like likeplayground battles.
You know, when they tell it likelittle kids, it's it's um it
gets ugly.
SPEAKER_03 (28:40):
It does.
Well, it turns into the well,who are you to question me on
this?
And when I've been doing thisand this and that, and the walls
go up.
Yeah, the walls go up, and andyou should absolutely be able to
ask questions of each other, uh,obviously respectfully.
But um, yeah, I I feel the jointaccount helps uh hold each other
accountable, and and you shouldreally be on the same page.
(29:01):
Like you said, uh financesresult in uncomfortable
conversations.
They absolutely do.
Excuse me.
Um, because a lot of peopledon't want to talk about
finances, not even with theirfriends, but let alone when you
have to be accountable and uhwith your spouse.
Uh yeah, it it is uncomfortableconversations, but they're good
(29:23):
conversations.
Yeah, you might argue, but atthe end of it, at least you're
both on the same page.
Yeah.
You know, and and that's that'sthe important part is being on
the same page.
Uh even talking about your goalstogether.
Yeah.
Uh, you know, how often do yousit down and ask your wife or
your husband, like, hey, uh,what are your goals?
I mean, it do you are youwanting to travel?
(29:43):
Are are you wanting to be debtfree?
Are you wanting, you know, andjust discuss those things.
And it's funny because it's allabout communication and people
don't communicate.
SPEAKER_00 (29:52):
Especially about money, because it can be
uncomfortable, but you don't youwant to know what's more
uncomfortable when you don'ttalk about it and the lights are
being turned off.
Bills are coming in and thesheriff's at your door.
That's uncomfortable.
So let's have theseuncomfortable conversations with
our spouses now because it's alot better having them on the on
the other end.
I promise you that.
Um wow.
So what about here?
(30:13):
I hear this, and then we'llclose out.
And I want to uh give me a goodanswer on this one because I
hear this all the time.
I sign up for the overtime, Iwork it.
That's my money.
It goes into my separateaccount.
She doesn't get any of myovertime money because that's
mine.
Now you've left your family togo work the overtime.
SPEAKER_03 (30:30):
Yeah, I yeah, you know, I I would disagree with
that viewpoint as well.
Uh because again, you're marriedand you have kids, and you gotta
put your you gotta put yourspouse and your kids first, and
they should always come first.
And um you again, being on thesame page, that's why the joint
account helps.
And then my my first mindset, ifI had overtime money coming in,
I'd be saying, what debts can Ipay off to free up cash flow?
(30:52):
Yeah.
And then when I free up cashflow, now I have money to invest
in the market.
That's something we didn't havetime to get into.
That's another part of the prongthat I talk about with recruits
and um starting retirement earlybecause the more time you have
for your money to compound ontop of itself and grow is the
the more that you're gonna seein your account and you're more
(31:13):
financially free.
SPEAKER_00 (31:14):
Um we're gonna let's really dive into that next time.
Absolutely.
Get into the a playbook of howto do it, you know, a safe way
to do it because everybody hearsdifferent opinions from every
different level.
SPEAKER_03 (31:25):
I I I encourage them to uh in the class to reach out
to their departments, whetherit's HR or their supervisor, but
you should know what yourpension looks like.
You should know um what's yourpre-retirement income that you
need, like when you retire,what's your financial
independence um that you need tohave?
What percentage are you gonnahave?
When are you gonna draw SocialSecurity?
(31:46):
How much uh how much income doyou need to supplement to live
beyond?
Because you have inflationaryimpacts after you retire.
Is your money gonna be worth asmuch 20 years from now?
Are you gonna have to go get apart-time job when you're 85?
Like that's the stuff peopleneed to need to really think
about.
And unfortunately, what you seein most people, pretty much all
people, is they don't thinkabout retirement until they're
(32:08):
40.
And you've already lost 20 yearsof growth.
You know, you should be startingretirement the moment you get a
job.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:14):
So um, Al, can I get uh just a couple words out of
you real quick before we close?
What's the Bible say aboutmoney?
A lot of people think Bible, wedon't talk about it.
It's what's the Bible say aboutmoney?
Because it's not evil.
SPEAKER_01 (32:24):
No, no.
Um, but um when you and I thinkabout this, because we've worked
with a small record.
(33:12):
Okay, look at alcohol and thenwe talk about inappropriate uh
(33:41):
partners.
SPEAKER_00 (33:45):
Our regional partner, like, hey, can I
comment on that?
Yeah, yeah, and I like to yeah,have Jack come and speak to some
of our at our some of our eventsand stuff because it's it's a
huge thing, the money.
And you know, when God talksabout money in the Bible, he
talks about the he talks, he'stalking about the heart of
people and what they're doingwith the money.
Money's not evil.
(34:06):
When used properly, um, money isgood.
And as Christians, we also haveto, you know, we need to add
into our budget, in my opinion,is a tithe.
I think it's important.
I think when we, you know, forour faith listeners, I think
it's important when we give Godour first.
The first of what we make.
Um sometimes it doesn't makesense, but he provides a way.
(34:28):
And there's it's not aboutmoney, God doesn't need your
money, it's about your heart.
And that's what I've learnedthrough it all.
It's about the heart.
Your heart is where your money'sgonna follow where your heart
is, right?
Yeah, and that's why so much inour organization we focus on the
heart.
But thank you, guys.
This is fun.
Can we do it again?
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (34:45):
Yeah, we can do a part two.
SPEAKER_00 (34:47):
All right, and I'm gonna uh say say say thank you
to producer Corey over here.
We got Corey sitting with us.
If you've been in the academy,you know Corey we got producer
Corey over here, he's he'slearning the switches, so thank
you, Corey.
And thanks for tuning in.
We'll see you guys on the nextpodcast.
God bless.
SPEAKER_03 (35:03):
All right, thanks.
Welcome back to another episode of the Shared
Voices podcast brought to you by1042 Project.
And we're still at the Academy.
If you got to hear the lastepisode, we came out to the
Academy.
Um, they ended up finding us.
We tried to hide from it.
No.
We came out here and theyallowed us in.
And we sat down and we had areal conversation with the
director and and with with uhChristy and with and Chaplain Al
(00:23):
Perez, and we had a realconversation, and I think it was
pretty powerful.
Um I appreciate them allowing meto come in and ask my stupid
questions.
But now we have uh a specialguest that I want to talk to
because Jack, number one, thankyou for being here.
Yep, you you know the mission ofour organization, you know what
we do.
Generally, uh the top one to twothings when a first responder
(00:47):
reaches out in crisis, money'swrapped in either the first or
the second.
So many of our first responders,when we struggle with mental
health or we come into the lineof work, we don't, we may not be
used to having this kind ofmoney, even though it's not a
lot.
Um and and we we kind of screwedup in a hurry.
I'm just gonna be honest.
And when you're supposed to bethe pillar of the community, I
(01:08):
know for me, I struggled withit.
I tried to I tried to treat mymental health by spending money,
by buying things like boats andcampers.
And it led to a very dark timein me and my ex-wife's life that
led towards a lot of financialissues, a lot of marriage
issues.
Um, cleared down to our homebeing foreclosed on.
And and I know it's a hardsubject to talk about, but I
(01:30):
know there's a lot of youlisteners that are that are kind
of going through that, and itcan be tough because we're
supposed to have all of ourstuff put together, is what the
world says.
We're supposed to be above thestandards of everybody else, but
we're just people.
We're just people and and Jack,thank you for being on.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself and why the heck you
even care.
Why do you care about whatpeople, these first responders
and their finances?
SPEAKER_03 (01:51):
Well, for one, um, so my name's Jack Huton.
I'm the finance manager orfinancial officer here at the
Academy.
Um, I care about firstresponders because I I feel that
uh sometimes they're not backedor they don't.
Um people don't appreciate whatthey do on a daily basis.
And uh there are times wherethey do things that are uh
(02:12):
nothing short of miraculous.
And um, so I I do what I can tobasically help anybody in
general, but um I do have apassion for first responders,
military members.
Um, you know, I have uh firstresponders, officers, and
military members in my family.
So you know that hits home forme.
SPEAKER_00 (02:31):
From day one, when I met you, how I introduced me to
you, um, I knew right away thekind of heart you had.
Like you, it's just who you are,you shine it from you.
You're a very loving, caringperson, very welcoming.
And I've loved from day one whenwe first talked, we started
talking about the money issuesand some of the struggles that I
see in the first respondersreaching out.
And that's why I wanted to bringyou on.
(02:51):
Is because money is hard to talkabout, right?
Let's be real.
It's it's something we don't alot of times want to share with
people.
Most of us are honest, you know,about it, and we try to we try
to cover it up and makeourselves look better than than
what we are because that's thethat's the next Facebook post
you want to make, right?
Is is show that one with yournew boat so you can show your
buddy that you, you know, andit's just constant keeping up
(03:12):
with the Joneses, what they usedto call it, Al.
I don't know if the Joneses arestill still around, but we're
trying to keep up with them,apparently.
And Al, and and Al, real quick,I'm glad you're on here because
you get to see it too, myfriend.
You get to see it personally,and and you get to see it when
they first get to the academy.
And I think that's what'simportant with both of you.
You get to these recruits whenthey get here.
Some of them have no financialunderstanding, and some have
(03:34):
they're set in their own ways,and you ain't gonna tell them
anything, and that's fine.
But you two come alongside themand and you address it.
You talk about that money sidebecause it can be hard.
And and I've seen careers end.
Um it's pretty ugly.
And I love that Jack's willingto sit down, Al's willing to sit
down, and we're gonna addressthis issue.
So we're gonna dive right in.
You ready, Jack?
Yeah, absolutely.
All right, bro.
One-on-one, let's go.
(03:55):
All right, all right.
So, how does the financial howhow does finances impact the
mental health in yourrelationships?
I see it all the time, but let'sbreak it down and unpack some of
that.
SPEAKER_03 (04:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
So uh people under financialstrain are uh more likely, or
actually two and a half timesmore likely, to experience
anxiety and depression, um,which really flows into poor
sleep quality and uh and alsocreates high blood pressure,
cardiovascular issues.
I mean, there's a lot of thingsthat come into play with uh
(04:25):
finances and fretting about yourfinances, constant anxiety and
what that does to your body.
But also uh mentally it goesinto low self-esteem, uh sense
of self-worth, which kind ofleads into depression.
You have your feelings of shame,failure, hopelessness, um, even
down sometimes of suicidalthoughts.
You know, uh there's there's areason they say during the um
(04:47):
holidays, you know, suicide ismore prevalent.
Some of that, you know, comesdown to you know uh depression
and also plays into financialissues uh during those times.
There's a lot of pressure,financial pressure during
holidays, especially aroundChristmas and whatnot.
So um it really does play a uhhave a big impact in your mental
(05:07):
health and the relationshipsthat you have, because when this
creeps into your relationships,um when you're experiencing a
lot of financial issues, youhave social withdrawal.
Um you can also, it can be astrain on your intimacy, uh,
which can cause emotionaldistance between your partner.
Um, and then let's say you startgoing out and gambling, um, or
(05:29):
you're hiding debt from yourpartner, uh, which I've seen um,
you know, amongst friends andstuff, and and you start lying
about purchases you make, andthat causes a major breach in
your marriage.
Um, so there's that erosion oftrust in your marriage, and then
the marital conflict, um, youknow, where you're arguing, it
leads to uh it's money is themajor leading cause of
(05:52):
arguments, divorce, separationamongst couples.
Um, you know, it a lot of peoplesay or try to act like money
doesn't affect them or moneyisn't a thing, and it really is.
Um, and and I, you know, I I Ifeel that it affects people more
than they realize.
And and they might be bad aboutsomething, they might be
fretting about their theirfinancial issues that they're
(06:15):
having, and then they take itout on their partner, and then
later on, you you know, you'redoing reflect back and think
where did that come from?
Yeah.
And and it's because you've beenfretting about finances this
whole time.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:26):
So other than that, there's no reason to talk about
finances, you know, no issuesare wrapped around it.
And yeah, yeah, right.
But no, it's one of the keythings because when we talk
about our hierarchy, ourhierarchy of needs, you know,
Maslow's hierarchy of needs,when it comes to you know,
getting better, getting healing,um, there's certain things we
have to have before we can kindof focus on that, right?
(06:47):
We need to have our our financesin a safe place where we feel
like, okay, we're safe.
We have a home, we have a car,we can, so these things are
taken care of.
And then and then um if thoseneeds are not taken care of,
it's hard to build thefoundation to build it up any
higher because you're going tobe focused back on the this
money side.
Yeah.
So the hierarchy of needs, if wecan start addressing those, it's
(07:09):
a pyramid.
If we can start addressing thoseat the base, and generally a lot
of that can be financial, or atthe second step can be
financial.
Um if we can help at that level,it will allow people to then
move on to the next step of loveand belonging, where you can
focus on self-esteem, you canfocus on self-improvement, you
can focus on that.
But it's pretty hard to do ifyou don't know if you have a
(07:30):
home to sleep in at night,right?
SPEAKER_03 (07:32):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (07:33):
So, and and sometimes people come here and
and their hierarchy of needs isnot being met.
They're coming here.
I know when I came here, I camehere 20 years old with a car
that Barry ran and a negativeaccount in my a negative account
in my and I walked in here likeI had no idea how to run
finances, nor did I really care,honestly.
(07:53):
Yeah, you know, because I waskind of young, dumb, and and
just didn't think I'd be aroundanyway.
Um, but I love that you'readdressing this because if the
whole time they're at theacademy, they're focused on
their you know, their well-beingand their income, they're never
gonna be able to focus on thetraining.
They're not.
SPEAKER_03 (08:10):
Yeah, it's always in the back of your mind.
SPEAKER_00 (08:11):
Yeah.
So we can we can address thesethings, we we can bring them up
front and we can startprocessing them.
Because you can just you can seeJack just listed what can
happen, you know, the financialstrains, what it does to to a
relationship and to a person.
And so many of us firstresponders, Jack, like myself,
uh the listeners heard me saythis before.
When I was in my career, when Iwas in my career, um things
(08:35):
started rolling.
I started getting paid, and andI started getting exposed to
trauma.
I started buying things, and atfirst it was kind of fun because
I had a little bit of money todo it.
Right.
Um, and then I got a house andother things, and I so I was
taking care of my hierarchy ofneeds, but at the same time, I
was jumping over those and goingafter my wants.
The things I wanted now.
Um and it led to, you know, ledto um electricity being turned
(08:58):
off from time to time.
It led to all sorts of I mean,we were in major credit card
debt, major debt on and everylevel you could be.
And and I just kept digging usdeeper with my mental health.
Well, I gotta have that truck, Igotta have that camper, I gotta
have that four-wheeler, I gottahave that boat, because that's
what's gonna help me to be ableto make it another day or be
(09:19):
able to survive is I need thesemental health breaks.
But Jack, every department hasthese boards inside their police
departments where you can signup for overtime.
So so many of us are working our40-hour weeks and then some, and
then we're but we're working allthis overtime where we're
bringing in more money, and nowwe have we have bills a mile
(09:41):
high, and our mental health isstill struggling, and it can get
ugly and out of out of controlin a hurry.
SPEAKER_03 (09:47):
Well, unfortunately, what you see a lot of times with
impulse buying, because when youbuy something, it's just like
when you eat something, you getthat dopamine hit, it makes you
feel good, right?
And so if you're strugglingalready financially or you you
already have a low self-esteemand buying things, a lot of
people try to self-cope with I'mgonna buy this, I'm gonna buy
that, it makes me feel good inthat moment, you know, and then
(10:08):
you have that buyer's remorseafterwards, but you can very
quickly have debt get away fromyou.
Um, you know, and then like yousaid, you have this overtime you
can sign up for to help pay forall those debts that you
acquire.
But a lot of times after you paythem off, you just end up
pulling out another debt.
Um, and oh, I can now affordthis, let me buy this.
And you know, you wanna youwanna um buy all these toys so
(10:32):
that way when you're with yourfamily, you can uh have fun.
So you get the speed boat, youget the jet skis, right?
Because you've never seen a sadperson on a jet ski before,
right?
So uh but the problem is youhave to work all this overtime.
So when are you gonna have thetime to actually be on the boat
or the jet ski?
You know, I can I can tell youyour family would much rather
see you more often than have aboat or a jet ski that's not
(10:53):
being used because you're notaround to use it.
SPEAKER_00 (10:54):
Thank you for saying that.
Because thank you for sayingthat, because that's true.
So many of us are walking awayfrom our families and our kids
to go work a football game andand to work a valley football
game and to stand there for fourhours on a Friday night while
your family's at home.
What should have been your nightout, your night off is now you
signed up and now you're you'reout there.
And I know I'm saying thisbecause I've been there.
(11:15):
We always say our families arenumber one priorities.
We say our kids are our numberone priorities as we're walking
out the door to go do thatstuff.
Right.
And our actions speak louderthan our words.
And I've no, because I I I havethree kids at five now, but
three when I was um goingthrough the my mental health
stuff, and we put a we can put alot of weight on our kids.
SPEAKER_03 (11:33):
Well, and I've heard uh can't remember who said it,
but somebody said uh the mostcrucial time for you to be
around for your kids is that agebetween, you know, like one and
four, one and five.
Um, and you only get that timeonce.
Yeah.
The mo the the time that you seeyour kids the most, you're gonna
know them the most in theiradult life.
The time that you have with themwhen they're young and
(11:54):
impressionable is very short.
Yes.
So to miss out on all thosemoments, you know, is is really
a tragedy.
SPEAKER_00 (12:02):
Yeah, and I'm still repairing that.
I'm just gonna be honest.
Like my kids and I have a greatrelationship, but I know as a
dad I let them down in thoseareas, and you know, and the
best thing I can do is justcontinue to improve and show
them.
But we cause hurt, we cause alot more hurt to our family than
we realize when it comes to thisovertime stuff.
Yeah.
I I've I've said this before onother podcasts, and I'm sure
(12:23):
maybe the academy wouldn't agreewith me, but I would like to get
it down to where firstresponders are working four
four-day work weeks.
I think if anybody in the in theworld who needs to be working a
lesser schedule, I would lovefor those get paid the same,
obviously.
Right.
But instead of working an80-hour work week, they're
working 70 hours, maybe thatother 10 hours, you know,
(12:44):
consider that their health andwellness time.
Right.
But we need these breaks becauseman, we get exposed to trauma
and trauma and trauma, and thenwe come home, we gotta deal with
our family, and a lot of timesthat's trauma and money, and
then we go back to work, andit's a cycle of suck, Jack, that
can be hard to get out of.
SPEAKER_03 (12:58):
Well, yeah, I mean, and and you know, any person
usually when they get off work,they need that little bit of
downtime to kind of to reset.
And uh, I can only imagine as afirst responder, the amount of
things the the things that yousee uh that you'll never forget,
you know, and and and whenyou're constantly on the go, you
(13:19):
don't get any time to processthat.
Yeah.
And you know, that thatdefinitely would play a role.
SPEAKER_00 (13:25):
Yeah.
So to have a healthy financialfinancial life, it is it's not
gonna happen by accident.
It's not.
We have to be intentional.
Yep.
So let's get down to someintentionality here.
And I I want to talk about wetalked about some of the vices,
but I want to talk to them, talkto you about some more.
Gambling is legal in Iowa now.
Um, it seems like firstresponders were very much uh
(13:47):
adrenaline driven and dopamine.
You're hitting those littlebetting apps, and and it sounds
like a lot of these gamblingapps are causing a lot of issues
for people.
Um why why do so many of us runto those high adrenaline type
financial things?
The things that really are weshould be holding most dearly,
we run to those.
(14:07):
Like, why are we doing that?
Why are we running to gamblingand stuff like that?
SPEAKER_03 (14:11):
Yeah, so uh, you know, first responders do
struggle and they have a highproclivity to gambling,
basically because uh, and wetalked about this a little bit,
but their exposure, um, the uhthe uh severity of the exposure
of and and how often they'reexposed to these traumatic
events are at a frequency farbeyond what the general public
would see, so which results inthe the PTSD, which you guys are
(14:34):
gonna understand a lot more thanI will about that and can talk
to it more about me than me.
But um, you know, when you havePTSD, you have this need for
this release, which uh we talkedabout those um impulsive uh
financial decisions.
I'm gonna buy this, I'm gonnabuy that.
It makes me feel good.
Um exactly.
So you have those impulsecontrol issues, but also you
(14:56):
have avoidance and numbing, iswhere you're gonna see the
drinking.
Um you're trying to uhself-medicate this emotional
pain and trauma.
So you might go drink or youmight go gambling.
You know, you you go to acasino, you see these machines,
and they have all these lightsflashing and the sounds, and I
mean it draws you in.
There's a reason for that, youknow.
Um just like a kid on an iPad,it's just constant dopamine to
(15:17):
your brain, right?
So it's it's addictive.
Um, and then because of thestigma, and and most men anyway
don't talk about their issues,um, but then you have uh these
emotional issues, and there'sthis stigma that um I I think,
like you said, uh you have to bethe strong personality.
You you can't go seek helpbecause you're the person
everyone runs to for help.
(15:38):
That's the stigma.
Yeah, so you turn away from thepsychological or even financial
counseling, and then when youturn away from that, then you
embrace these bad copingmechanisms basically.
SPEAKER_00 (15:50):
And when you're struggling with your mental
health, I know this fromexperience.
You can justify anything toyourself.
Yeah.
I mean, just to be open and raw.
Like there was times where myfamily didn't have the money to
keep the light bill on, but Iwould keep a stash so I could
have vodka.
You know, like yeah, we'remaking some really bad decisions
at this point, right?
(16:10):
Like and and that's where I was,and and a lot of the not a lot,
but I don't want to categorizeeverybody, but some of the first
responders we deal with is kindof the same thing.
They're kind of dealing withwith with that as well.
SPEAKER_03 (16:24):
Um and when when somebody, you know, let's say
somebody approaches you with thedecision you made, um, you know,
most people are gonna be quickto get on the defensive and
justify why they did what theydid.
You know, and so it it's hard tobe uh to have some reflection
and and some you know someself-judgment there to to really
(16:45):
stop and and think, hey, youknow what I'm doing, because
what you're doing in the timefeels good.
Um it makes you feel good tospend money or or go gamble or
this or that.
And and and it's it's facingthat and saying, okay, well, if
I stop, then I'm really gonnahave to face the problem.
Yeah.
And and that's where it's hardto do.
SPEAKER_00 (17:04):
Yeah, because it's facing it's the hard part.
Yeah.
Because there's there's there'sinherent like guilt and shame
that comes along with it.
Yeah.
Um, which shouldn't, but thereis.
And and it's hard to breakthrough that.
I mean, that was the biggestthing to me was my ego.
I wasn't gonna ask anybody forhelp, you know, like it gets
ugly in a hurry.
(17:25):
Um I've got so many questionsthat we're running out of time,
Al.
Good thing we're gonna have Jackback here though, guys.
Seriously, because it's one ofthe big things you guys reach
out about.
Um, and for some of us, I justwant to address this real quick.
For some of us that are reallybad that can be in a really bad
mental health place like I wasin the past, it can be hard to
(17:47):
think about planning for thefuture because you don't feel
like you're gonna be part of thefuture.
Um I know for me, um, I didn'twant to plan for the future
because I I didn't I plan ondying before that.
And it's a very sick mindthought, you know, mindset, but
that's where I was, and there'ssome other people that that's
kind of where where you are.
But I would just ask you guys weas we talk about this, when it
(18:09):
comes to financial planning andgetting your and getting
yourself um set up right orgetting out of a hole of your
debt, um getting help with thatand getting through that with
somebody, um it can do twothings.
It can either draw your marriagecloser or it can push it apart.
But if you allow your financesto for you and your and your
spouse to be able to talk aboutyour finances openly, um, and
(18:31):
sometimes that's that meansyou're gonna be have to have
some uncomfortableconversations.
Um, but getting on the same onthe same page with each other,
and honestly, for the ones thatare really struggling bad, you
know who you are.
I know you you you don't careabout you may not be around in
the future, but let's do thinkabout our families.
And I think what Jack um a lotof stuff he talks about with
with financial wealth and andthis type of stuff, even if you
(18:55):
may not feel like it's for you,and I know that sounds sick, but
let's think about our familieshere moving forward because um
we do care about them.
I know y'all care about yourfamilies.
And sometimes I know for me,getting help for myself was no
thanks, but I would get help ifit meant it was helping my
family.
You know what I mean?
Because sometimes we won't wedon't want to do it for our for
(19:15):
ourselves, but let's shift to tonow let's shift to having a
healthy, a healthy financialrelationship, you know, a
healthy career.
Yeah.
Coming into it.
Um what do you guys talkfinancially about in your
classes here at the academy thatfor your recruits?
What what are you equiping with?
What type of advice?
And you don't have to go intothe whole the whole thing, but
(19:38):
like if you had to wrap thisfinancial class up, right?
It's a financial class.
What's the purpose of it?
SPEAKER_03 (19:45):
So the purpose that um, or my purpose, uh uh to give
them the tips that they need toget their financial house in
order.
Like you said, um, it doesn'thappen by accident, it has to be
intentional.
And and I I think in the back ofpeople's minds when they're
struggling financially, theyknow they are, they're just not
ready to face it yet.
And um I it's really so what Iwhat I cover is a three-prong um
(20:11):
uh uh approach?
Yes, thank you.
A three-prong approach of one,understanding your credit score,
why is your credit score the wayit is, know how to pull your
credit or score credit score,and also how to maintain a good
credit score.
Um, the next one is gonna bedebt control.
And we go over um tracking yourdebts, understanding um where
(20:31):
your debts are coming from,because it, you know, a lot of
people are saying, well, I needto save money.
Well, if you don't know whatyou're spending, how are you
gonna save it?
You have to know where yourmoney's going.
So getting in never knew.
Yeah, right.
A lot of us don't, or we dowhere we uh absolutely tend to
ignore it and look the otherway.
Um, so like I have an app on myphone that uh connects to my
(20:53):
bank account and and itcategorizes my expenses for me.
I can see how much are we eatingout, how much are we spending on
entertainment, how much are, youknow, which gets you to start
thinking, well, if I was savingthat, you know, what would that
in the future be worth?
You know?
Um and then so we talk about uhdebt cons or not debt
consolidation, but like uh debtsnowball, um, getting out of
(21:13):
debt, showing also credit carddebts.
I mean, credit cards are it it'scrazy the amount of consumer
debt.
There's over$18 trillion inconsumer debt.
And this is last year's figures,over 18 trillion in consumer
debt, and 1.2 or 1.3 is iscredit cards.
SPEAKER_00 (21:29):
That's disgusting.
SPEAKER_03 (21:30):
It's crazy.
And um, you know, 73% ofAmericans die in debt, which
means that gets passed on toyour kids, you know, because you
have assets when you die, orhopefully you do.
Um, but those get caught up indebts and probate.
So it's really about gettingthem to this mindset of of
(21:51):
buying what you need and notjust what you want, being
purposeful with your money andthen and then um paying down
your debts as fast as you can,getting to that that debt
freedom you want to experience.
Because I can tell you, payingsomething off gives you a lot
more joy than buying somethingnew.
SPEAKER_00 (22:06):
Or paying cash up front.
Yeah instead of say or savingfor the and using the cash up
front.
Like I know a lot of financialthings focus on credit score,
but sometimes credit score, itseems like, and I could be
wrong, seems like sometimes ifyou're not using credit, you're
not using credit cards, yourcredit score goes down, and then
people are like, Oh, you need toput more on credit.
SPEAKER_03 (22:22):
Um, and that's one way, but uh there's also
something to be said of ofpaying cash for something that's
I mean it it's okay to have acredit card, but those companies
are banking on you not payingyour debt off.
I mean, that's where they'regonna get their money from.
SPEAKER_00 (22:36):
They built a new building just because of me.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (22:39):
Yeah, I've I you know I I have to I have to
admit, I've thrown quite a bitof money in their building too,
right?
So um credit cards, it you haveto be very purposeful with them.
They can be good if you use themthe right way.
If you use a credit card, likefor me, I use mine just for gas
because I've been I've had mycard stolen, the card
information stolen at a pumpbefore.
(23:01):
So a credit card is a loteasier.
They can cover that cost anddelete it off your card, right?
I'm not gonna use my checkingaccount card at the gas pump
because I've had it happen.
And then all of a sudden I seethis charge for 800 some odd
dollars at Pet Smart, and thenI'm texting my wife, like, what
are you doing?
And yeah, it wasn't yeah, she'slike, What are you talking
about?
I'm sitting at home.
(23:21):
I'm like, no, you're atPetSmart.
And no, this this guy uh scammedmy scammed my card, took my
information, created a new card,and bought a bunch of gift cards
from PetSmart, and then he wasgone out of the out of the city
before they could catch him.
So I use my credit card only forgas.
Um, and then I make sure I payit off every two weeks, or you
(23:43):
could pay it off every month.
But the whole point is to pay itoff before you incur interest.
Um, and the the credit companiesbanking on that, you won't do
that.
I wonder what percentage ofpeople actually do that.
Like, probably not very many.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:56):
I mean, most because I used a credit card as well.
I'm out of money, I don't getpaid for another week.
Yep.
I'm still gonna go do all thethings I want to do.
The majority on the bill andthen never happens.
SPEAKER_03 (24:07):
The majority of people use it to float, right?
Um, because we earned it.
SPEAKER_00 (24:10):
So don't you know I earned I earned to be able to go
buy this because I have had I'vebeen working long days.
I've been it's been stressful.
Me and my wife have beenarguing.
So I deserve to go out and spendthis money.
Exactly.
The justifications, right?
We do it all the time.
SPEAKER_03 (24:24):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (24:24):
I still catch myself doing it.
SPEAKER_03 (24:26):
And and so what people should really move to is
um excuse me, should move tohaving an emergency fund, right?
You move to have an emergencyfund in your savings account or
a high yield savings account,whatever you want to put in, but
it needs to be liquid where youcan pull it out.
Because one what happens is whenyou have a credit card, you
know, it seems like anytime youget money, your car craps out,
(24:47):
something happens, right?
And then you're swiping yourcredit card, then it takes
forever to pay it off.
And you're paying interest onit, paying interest on it.
Because something else happensin the meantime, and now you
gotta, yeah, exactly.
So if you just have an emergencysavings account, that would be
my first step would be um start,yeah, track your expenses, but
start looking into creating anemergency savings account so
(25:08):
that way when something doeshappen, it there's a lot less
arguments, right?
I don't have to, you know, let'ssay, let's say something happens
and then um you have to swipeyour credit card and now you
have the arguments with yourspouse again because you're
constantly trying to pay thiscredit card off.
Well, you have an emergencysavings account, something
happens.
There is no arguments.
Yeah, you you just pay it, andthen you rebolster that
(25:31):
emergency uh savings as timegoes on, you know.
And then after that, um, youknow, then you want to start
looking into you know the debtsnowball, paying down your debt.
You can do debt snowball or debtavalanche.
Um there's two differentmethods.
It's debt avalanche is you paydown your highest interest rates
first, regardless of how big theloan is.
SPEAKER_00 (25:50):
As opposed to the other way where you start with
the smallest.
SPEAKER_03 (25:52):
You start with the smallest.
So finance is 20% knowledge and80% behaviors.
It's not guess.
Well, sometimes, right?
For me, I just guessed.
Um, so it it really isbehavioral.
So um the reason the debtsnowball works is because as
you're uh paying things off, youstart seeing rewards, right?
(26:14):
It's all about seeing thoserewards.
If you do the avalanche method,and let's say you're paying on
something for four years andit's not paid off yet.
I mean, how long are you gonna,let's say it's a diet, how long
are you gonna stick to a dietand see zero results?
Right.
So you start with the the debtsnowball, and then as you pay
something off, it it kind ofmakes you feel good, and then it
it reels you back in, and thenyou pay the next thing off, you
(26:35):
feel good.
It's all about behavior and andthe psychological aspect of it,
you know.
SPEAKER_00 (26:40):
Um that's how I that's how I number one, I for
one time it happened severaltimes, but I use a debt
consolidation, they help me kindof get settle some stuff.
Um that helped.
Yeah, but I'm losing my train ofthought.
What are you just saying?
This happens all the time.
Now I get tired.
I don't even know anymore.
Anyway, but I do we're gettingready to close up and I'm gonna
(27:01):
ask you this, and we're gonnahave you on more.
Yeah.
But I get this, I get asked thisa lot.
Should I have my own accountseparate from my wife?
I hear this all the time.
I'm tired of her, I'm tired ofher, I'm tired of her.
Oh, wrong button.
I'm tired of her complaining allthe time.
I'm tired of all this.
(27:22):
I want to have my own account.
It's my job, my money.
We'll share the bills.
A lot of times I get phone callswhere there's arguments going on
where she didn't pay her partand he's let her have it, or
she's letting him have it.
What's your thoughts on this?
Because I hear all differentways.
My wife and I, we shareeverything.
We don't have anything separate.
Um, what's your thought?
SPEAKER_03 (27:41):
Uh, my personal thought on it is I would rather
have it joint.
I I feel like when when whenyou're married under God, you
become one.
Yep.
Right.
And um, that also plays in thefinances.
I I have friends that do theirfinances separately and they're
constantly arguing with eachother because, as you just said,
one person's carrying most ofthe weight and the other
person's doing what they want.
(28:03):
When you have a joint account,um, it forces you to work
together as you should be doing,and you can hold each other
accountable.
If I go buy a gun withouttalking to my wife, she's gonna
say, Hey, you just spent$800.
Like, you didn't even talk to mefirst, right?
It it helps you hold each otheraccountable.
And that's exactly what amarried couple should do.
(28:24):
You keep each other in theright, you hold each other
accountable, and not to punisheach other.
SPEAKER_00 (28:28):
It's not that a lot so many of these money arguments
turn into, I mean, like likeplayground battles.
You know, when they tell it likelittle kids, it's it's um it
gets ugly.
SPEAKER_03 (28:40):
It does.
Well, it turns into the well,who are you to question me on
this?
And when I've been doing thisand this and that, and the walls
go up.
Yeah, the walls go up, and andyou should absolutely be able to
ask questions of each other, uh,obviously respectfully.
But um, yeah, I I feel the jointaccount helps uh hold each other
accountable, and and you shouldreally be on the same page.
(29:01):
Like you said, uh financesresult in uncomfortable
conversations.
They absolutely do.
Excuse me.
Um, because a lot of peopledon't want to talk about
finances, not even with theirfriends, but let alone when you
have to be accountable and uhwith your spouse.
Uh yeah, it it is uncomfortableconversations, but they're good
(29:23):
conversations.
Yeah, you might argue, but atthe end of it, at least you're
both on the same page.
Yeah.
You know, and and that's that'sthe important part is being on
the same page.
Uh even talking about your goalstogether.
Yeah.
Uh, you know, how often do yousit down and ask your wife or
your husband, like, hey, uh,what are your goals?
I mean, it do you are youwanting to travel?
(29:43):
Are are you wanting to be debtfree?
Are you wanting, you know, andjust discuss those things.
And it's funny because it's allabout communication and people
don't communicate.
SPEAKER_00 (29:52):
Especially about money, because it can be
uncomfortable, but you don't youwant to know what's more
uncomfortable when you don'ttalk about it and the lights are
being turned off.
Bills are coming in and thesheriff's at your door.
That's uncomfortable.
So let's have theseuncomfortable conversations with
our spouses now because it's alot better having them on the on
the other end.
I promise you that.
Um wow.
So what about here?
(30:13):
I hear this, and then we'llclose out.
And I want to uh give me a goodanswer on this one because I
hear this all the time.
I sign up for the overtime, Iwork it.
That's my money.
It goes into my separateaccount.
She doesn't get any of myovertime money because that's
mine.
Now you've left your family togo work the overtime.
SPEAKER_03 (30:30):
Yeah, I yeah, you know, I I would disagree with
that viewpoint as well.
Uh because again, you're marriedand you have kids, and you gotta
put your you gotta put yourspouse and your kids first, and
they should always come first.
And um you again, being on thesame page, that's why the joint
account helps.
And then my my first mindset, ifI had overtime money coming in,
I'd be saying, what debts can Ipay off to free up cash flow?
(30:52):
Yeah.
And then when I free up cashflow, now I have money to invest
in the market.
That's something we didn't havetime to get into.
That's another part of the prongthat I talk about with recruits
and um starting retirement earlybecause the more time you have
for your money to compound ontop of itself and grow is the
the more that you're gonna seein your account and you're more
(31:13):
financially free.
SPEAKER_00 (31:14):
Um we're gonna let's really dive into that next time.
Absolutely.
Get into the a playbook of howto do it, you know, a safe way
to do it because everybody hearsdifferent opinions from every
different level.
SPEAKER_03 (31:25):
I I I encourage them to uh in the class to reach out
to their departments, whetherit's HR or their supervisor, but
you should know what yourpension looks like.
You should know um what's yourpre-retirement income that you
need, like when you retire,what's your financial
independence um that you need tohave?
What percentage are you gonnahave?
When are you gonna draw SocialSecurity?
(31:46):
How much uh how much income doyou need to supplement to live
beyond?
Because you have inflationaryimpacts after you retire.
Is your money gonna be worth asmuch 20 years from now?
Are you gonna have to go get apart-time job when you're 85?
Like that's the stuff peopleneed to need to really think
about.
And unfortunately, what you seein most people, pretty much all
people, is they don't thinkabout retirement until they're
(32:08):
40.
And you've already lost 20 yearsof growth.
You know, you should be startingretirement the moment you get a
job.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:14):
So um, Al, can I get uh just a couple words out of
you real quick before we close?
What's the Bible say aboutmoney?
A lot of people think Bible, wedon't talk about it.
It's what's the Bible say aboutmoney?
Because it's not evil.
SPEAKER_01 (32:24):
No, no.
Um, but um when you and I thinkabout this, because we've worked
with a small record.
(33:12):
Okay, look at alcohol and thenwe talk about inappropriate uh
(33:41):
partners.
SPEAKER_00 (33:45):
Our regional partner, like, hey, can I
comment on that?
Yeah, yeah, and I like to yeah,have Jack come and speak to some
of our at our some of our eventsand stuff because it's it's a
huge thing, the money.
And you know, when God talksabout money in the Bible, he
talks about the he talks, he'stalking about the heart of
people and what they're doingwith the money.
Money's not evil.
(34:06):
When used properly, um, money isgood.
And as Christians, we also haveto, you know, we need to add
into our budget, in my opinion,is a tithe.
I think it's important.
I think when we, you know, forour faith listeners, I think
it's important when we give Godour first.
The first of what we make.
Um sometimes it doesn't makesense, but he provides a way.
(34:28):
And there's it's not aboutmoney, God doesn't need your
money, it's about your heart.
And that's what I've learnedthrough it all.
It's about the heart.
Your heart is where your money'sgonna follow where your heart
is, right?
Yeah, and that's why so much inour organization we focus on the
heart.
But thank you, guys.
This is fun.
Can we do it again?
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (34:45):
Yeah, we can do a part two.
SPEAKER_00 (34:47):
All right, and I'm gonna uh say say say thank you
to producer Corey over here.
We got Corey sitting with us.
If you've been in the academy,you know Corey we got producer
Corey over here, he's he'slearning the switches, so thank
you, Corey.
And thanks for tuning in.
We'll see you guys on the nextpodcast.
God bless.
SPEAKER_03 (35:03):
All right, thanks.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!