The path to healing often begins when we realize we're not alone in our struggles. In this powerful conversation with Mike and Pam, we explore the life-changing impact of trauma retreats specifically designed for first responders at the Haymarket Center in Chicago.
What makes these retreats transformative isn't just the professional support—it's the moment when a room full of hurting people recognize their shared experiences. As Pam beautifully explains, "Everybody who shows up tells their monster... and listening to all these hurt people, just admiring what they do." That vulnerable sharing creates immediate bonds that transcend backgrounds and specific traumas.
The retreat offers a comprehensive approach to healing: comfortable accommodations at the Embassy Suites, nutritious meals shared as a community, and a carefully structured program that includes both large group learning and intimate small group discussions. Participants learn about how trauma affects the body and mind while experiencing specialized treatments like EMDR therapy to disconnect emotions from traumatic memories.
Most remarkably, this potentially life-saving resource is completely free for first responders. Funded entirely through grants and staffed by dedicated volunteers, the Haymarket Center removes the financial barriers that often prevent people from seeking help. With multiple retreats scheduled throughout the year and groups kept intentionally small (15-18 people), the experience feels personal rather than institutional.
Mike and Pam's story exemplifies the retreat's ripple effect—after finding healing themselves, they now volunteer to support others beginning their journey. Their message is clear and compelling: don't minimize your pain, don't compare your trauma to others, and don't punish yourself for struggling. As Mike says, "Breaking that cycle through maybe just trying something new and different can give you the tools you need to get better."
Ready to take that first step toward healing? Reach out to learn more about upcoming retreats or connect with Mike and Pam directly. Healing happens in community—you don't have to walk this path alone.
Register at https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeWX535C2dwqd_aOpqWLcgcImyGrDsfGsRTsh6mKWr0lv65Jw/viewform
If you or someone you know is in crisis and at risk of self-harm, please call or text 988, the suicide and crisis lifeline.
To contact us directly send an email to Dan@10-42project.org or call 515-350-6274
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Shared Voices podcast brought to you
by the 1042 Project.
We are here with anotherexciting episode with Mike and
Pam.
This is the second.
This is part two part two of asit down that I did with Mike
and Pam, and if you have notlistened to the first part, I
would encourage you to go back.
Whether you're listeningthrough Apple, itunes or Spotify
(00:26):
or any streaming source,youtube go back and give it a
listen.
You can do it after this one.
You don't have to shut this oneoff and go back.
You'll still be able to followalong, but I would encourage you
to go back and listen to whatwe talk about in that last one.
I believe there's a lot of greatinformation, great information
that you and your family andspouse and everybody can get out
(00:46):
of it.
So, again, this is part twowith Mike and Pam, and thank you
guys for sticking around alittle bit longer.
I just didn't want to try tojam it all in in one episode.
You guys have too much stuffand I'll have you guys back on
the podcast in the future too.
I'll have you guys back on thepodcast in the future too, but I
at least wanted to get anotheropportunity to for people to
(01:07):
hear what you guys have beendoing and some of the treatment
and some of the help that youguys have had in in how you're
helping others at that treatmentfacility.
Pam, I'll start with you.
You're so passionate about thisand you're passionate for the
same reason.
I'm passionate is becauseyou've been there and Mike's
been there.
We've been through it.
The passion and the compassionthat's inside of us, that God's
(01:32):
put in us, it's not a degree youcan buy.
It's something that it's livedexperience.
It's going through the pain,through the hurt, going through
the uncomfortableness of askingfor help.
But the uncomfortableness thatit may feel to ask for help, the
(01:53):
consequences of not asking forhelp is going to be a lot more
uncomfortable.
And I know that you guys havehad a great experience and I'll
share my screen here for alittle bit.
And if you're listening on justthe audio platform through
iTunes or Apple, if you want togo to the YouTube stream, you'll
be able to see the screen I'mgoing to be pulling up here.
(02:14):
That's going to talk about theorganization that they've
received help from and that nowthey go to give help because
that's what God's called us todo.
So, pam, if you want to goahead and get started that and
as you get talking, I'm going topull this screen up.
Number one how'd you hear fromhim?
And I know you and correct meif I'm wrong, but I know that
you and I believe both of you,have tried other places as well.
(02:35):
What was different about thisplace?
And if our listeners arethinking about reaching out to
this facility, could you helppaint them a picture of what
it's like to go through it as afirst responder and some of the
fears you had, but yet the joyand healing that you found there
?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
It's so neat how God works, and I was on my computer
looking at the website from myfederal team even though I
haven't done it since 2017 andthere was something in there
that talked about this.
This was and um it, it.
(03:14):
It is totally god that I sawthat got put together with that,
(03:37):
not only for my healing, butfor the honor of helping walk
somebody else through theirs,and so we went to it.
We didn't know what to expectand I said it's a hundred
(04:02):
percent paid for through grantsand the Haymarket square and Wow
.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So you don't, the first responders don't have to
worry about trying to get moneyout of the savings account and
scratch.
And you know cause?
That's a big barrier, Pam is,is the finances right?
It's not like law enforcementand any first responder job.
We're not in it for the money,right?
That's great to hear.
So they have a grant program,so somebody needs help.
That that's not a barrieranymore.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
And it's not an expense.
You go to Chicago, you havefour days in the embassy suites.
That's all free.
All of our meals fancy meals weall eat together.
And what's funny, they don'twant us to stay up late.
(04:49):
And what's funny is eighto'clock at night you're ready
and I've never slept better.
And so the first day it'sinteresting because you've got
people with differentexperiences and everybody who
shows up, some are there becausethey've been told by their
(05:11):
employees that they have to.
Others have just come across,like we did, and go to it and
within the first five hours, oneat a time, we tell I call it
our monster.
You know what brought you to it?
(05:33):
And listening to all these hurtpeople and just admiring, and
just admiring what they do.
And you know, I've seen some ofthese officers and I'd say, boy
, I couldn't do that.
You know, get kicked, beat,spit on, shot at, and I couldn't
(06:00):
do it, I couldn't go back towork that next day.
And then they look at me andsay, well, we couldn't do your
job, yep.
So it's interesting.
But it just seems like there'sso much tension at first and
then, once everybody has toldtheir story, you just see a
(06:22):
camaraderie.
That is just amazing and you'dswear by the second day that we
had all been friends for a lotlonger and just the support that
we offer each other and youknow there's large group and
(06:44):
learning that, what your bodygoes through with PTSD and
trauma, and it just I can't sayenough good about it and I
personally have seen it help somany people.
And it's not faith-based,unfortunately, but there's also
(07:08):
no restriction from Mike and Italking about how Christ can
help them through it and thathe'll meet them where they're at
and just start that healingprocess.
And then, as far as Luna, godtakes your passion and makes it
(07:35):
for the greater of good.
I've always had pets horses,dogs.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Mike.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
I just really.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
He's kind of a pet.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
And I just really think it is amazing that God
took my passion of animals andwhat she's doing in Chicago.
And what she's doing in Chicagowe're hoping to get more done
(08:13):
around the local area also.
But those in Chicago have myheart and something that I would
do was, um, usually towards theend, I would say I have a
strong faith in Jesus Christ andI want you to know that I pray
(08:36):
for you every day, every morningI will pray for you, for you,
and the thank yous are, you know, written on notes, you know,
told hugs and so, even ifthey're not at the same place as
(08:56):
me, they appreciate so much.
And for them to know that, atthis old woman praying for them
every morning, I think givesthem a lot of, just a lot of
warm fuzzies.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Yeah, and I like that you said that because I want to
say this to people you know weare a faith-based organization,
but we're not here to push ourfaith on anybody.
We're not here.
You know, um, I know I had alot of church hurt, a lot of
christian hurt growing up.
You know a lot of people thinkthey're very demanding and in
your face and you have to dothis.
There's a lot of good help outthere that's not faith-based and
(09:35):
and we I can say that for thethree of us we all support that.
We, we encourage people to goto it.
But if there is, you know, alsoas going to that stuff, like
Mike likes to tell me, you cantake your faith with you when
you go and the programs thataren't faith-based do wonderful
things.
(09:55):
But I think there's an extrastep of healing when you add
Jesus into your healing processand into your relationship,
because how you believe and whathappens to us once we pass will
dictate how you run your life,how you, how you live your life.
And if you believe, we just dieand go into dust and that's it,
you're going to live your lifelike that.
But if you understand that weare here temporarily, this is
(10:16):
not our home.
We belong to jesus and we willbe going home with him and that
even through our hurt and pain,we can can get healing and we
can use that healing to helpothers.
And that's the biblicalprinciple.
Message is we don't get betterjust for ourselves.
We get better to point peopletowards Jesus so they can get
help.
The disciples in the Bible werethe first 12, but they sure the
(10:40):
heck weren't the last.
We are still disciples today.
So, mike, what would you sayabout that?
Because you love to say.
I remember when I was talkingabout this before you said hey,
man, you can bring your faithwith you.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Well, you're going to take your faith with you,
aren't you?
Yeah, Well, here's what I wouldsay about that.
I think about the cross, and Ithink about Calvary, and I think
about the centurion that wasstanding there.
He's probably amongst thecenturions that were crucifying
(11:12):
our Lord and they were gamblingfor his robe, and one of those
centurions that was the lawenforcement officer of the time
looked up and after the cloudsrolled up like a scroll and the
earthquake shook the groundaround them, and he looked up
(11:33):
and he knew what had happened.
And he knew, surely this was theSon of God.
You know, and we're allpresented with that decision,
decision time, because we're allborn into this world as sinners
.
And I just think to myselfsurely this man, Jesus Christ of
(11:55):
Nazareth, was the Son of Godthat died for my sins?
I don't have to live in thatsin anymore because I've been
forgiven.
But it doesn't negate theconsequences of my humanity as
I'm walking through this earthfor a short period of time,
(12:19):
opportunity to receive healing,whether it's from a physician,
whether it's from a therapist,whether it's from maybe they
don't even know, maybe theydon't have a faith in Christ
like I do, but they've stillbeen gifted by God with talents,
(12:47):
Whether they know it or not.
Yeah, that's right, and there'streatments out there that you
know.
When we went to this firsttrauma retreat in Illinois, well
, I had some experience inIllinois in my college days.
That's where I went to college,and so I get to relive some of
that past, you know, youngerdays, a state that I really love
, and I get to rub shoulderswith these men and women that
(13:09):
are, you know, walking alongthose same places where you know
where I walked along, and I getto develop new friendships and
relationships and I see theseyoung officers and these young
first responders that are.
They're so young, Dan, andthey've got their whole lives
ahead of them.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
And.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
I'm thinking to myself.
You know, listen, I wasn't agreat peace officer.
I did my best, but I made lotsof mistakes.
I made lots of mistakes over theyears.
But I made lots of mistakes.
I made lots of mistakes overthe years and I see these people
and I think, man, you guys aregoing to make such a great
impact on your communities, butyou're also going to make
(13:52):
mistakes and you're going toneed help along the way.
Opportunity to not just work onmy own self and the healing
that I need, but to watch otherpeople's lives get transformed
(14:12):
and find that their job is nottheir identity.
But I found my identity inChrist and finding out how
important that is that you know,when this job goes away, this
life is a vapor.
When this job goes away, whenthis life goes away and I take
my last breath and slip intoeternity and my identity is in
(14:35):
Christ.
Experience God has for me inthat security of knowing that
I'm his child and that he lovesme.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
And then all of the struggle that I've had.
I know I can trust him thatit's going to be worth it.
So walk me through this.
So how I?
If somebody's listening andthey want to go check out this
facility and there's facilitiesall over the country, more and
more are propping up, but we'retalking about the haymaker
center in chicago.
Um, hey, market center, heymarket center.
I'm gonna share my screen again.
(15:21):
Um, what is it like to reachout to them?
Is it scary?
What's the process like whenyou show up, when you arrive,
you know that's where we've sentpeople to treatment before and
they've flown all the way downto, say, florida, um, got all
the way up to the front doors,um, and some couldn't go in
right or some went through, somewent through the intake process
(15:43):
, where sometimes it can beintrusive.
Sometimes they can, you know,especially when you're a first
responder and you're not used tohaving your body searched and
stuff like that, and I know alltreatment facilities are
different.
We've had some people turnaround and leave at that point.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Nothing like that.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Walk us through it.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Here's what happened with me and Pam.
Pam found on her DMORT Facebookpage, I think, about Haymarket
Center having this traumaretreat and it was geared
towards first responders.
You could be a policeman, aretired policeman, a retired
(16:22):
nurse, a retired firefighter.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
EMS.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Any kind of first responders, frontline CCU nurses
, just whoever needed help.
Give them an email.
You email the policepsychologist, cami, that teaches
this four-day retreat.
And it's teaching.
(16:48):
It's not relaxing I meanthere's downtime, but it's
learning and it's teaching howto be well and how to recover
after you've been injured, afteryou've had trauma, injury,
whatever that looks like for youand email them and Cammie will
(17:09):
get back with you and she willmake sure that you're, you know,
fitting the criteria, which isbasically just what I said
somebody that's struggling andthen she'll make sure that
you're the right fit to comeover there and it's a relaxed
environment.
I went with Pam initially thefirst time because I thought
what is she getting into here?
(17:32):
You're being protective husband,you're not going by yourself,
I'll go with you.
Then I said no, we showed up.
Not the first time you told him,no, I'm sure about it was um,
you know, dr Cammy said well,now listen, mike.
Um, if Pam doesn't want to bein the same, uh, you know, small
(17:52):
groups with me you're going tohave to, you're going to have to
trust that she, that she'sgoing to be okay and you're
going to.
You know it, it was and thatwas the best thing that could
have happened because I didn'tknow that.
She said now listen Mike that'sexact and she is so.
She's so down to earth and allof the people who are the, the
(18:15):
the staff that's that's workingthere.
They're experts in their lot intheir line of therapy and
treatment.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
And it's all volunteer.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
They're all volunteers whoa, I did not know
that it's wonderful, and so thewonderful thing about that is
that, um, you're there withpeople you can trust who have
been around the block like youhave that's so important and so
um and so.
Long story short, we got thereand we you know it's free, it's
(18:49):
free of charge.
You have no reason not to go,except you got to pay for your
gas to get there.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Do you have to live in a certain region to be able
to go to this place, or?
It's just out of Chicago, butthey treat.
They will see anybody in the.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
United States.
It's just at the embassy suites, you know, in the convention
room.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
So it's not like a doctor setting or anything it's
a relaxed setting.
How cool is that.
I didn't know that.
Put your hair down.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
You don't have any hair.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Mike, Maybe back when you were in Chicago in the old
days you had hair.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Listen, it'll happen to you too.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Until then, I'm going to be a smart butt.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
I heard nothing good about this.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Cammie that you guys have mentioned.
I've heard nothing but goodthings about her.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Is she the one that meets you when you get there?
Is she the contact the wholetime?
Yep.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
She teaches it, then you have other people teaching
something else, and large groups, small group.
Like I said, everybody staysthere, everybody eats together.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Not to mention any names, but there are people
there that are very well knownand very….
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Respected in their field.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Respected in their field and they have changed the
world and doing tasks that arejust very interesting and very
insightful, and this is thething that helps a person who
might go to attend is to work ontheir own wellness, is learning
(20:37):
from those people who have sucha wealth of information to
share with you, and it's justwonderful.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
And a heart for it.
I think we were only into daytwo of before want to help with
this, and Mike said me too.
And so when we asked Tammy,she's like, of course.
And so she said but you need toremember and I thought she was
(21:12):
going to say it's about them now, not you, but it was the
opposite.
She said I want you to continueworking on yourself and don't
take on too much of others, thatyou start drowning, and just
how appreciative everybody isthere.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
I go as a peer volunteer, and so what I'm there
to do is to fill a seat and tohelp make other people feel
comfortable getting help forthemselves by allowing them to
watch me be willing to putmyself out and get help for
(22:00):
myself.
I'm probably not going to beable to help them I'm not an
expert in helping other peopledeal with trauma but what I can
do is be honest in front of themand getting help for myself,
whether it's going through anEMDR session to try and
disconnect the emotion from thememory that might be troubling
(22:24):
me.
It may be sitting in a smallgroup and just being honest in a
small group setting aboutthings that have bothered me
over the years and giving theman opportunity to, if they want
to talk about some things thatmaybe they feel like they could
use some help, working on fromthe therapists that are there.
(22:44):
And so this is the good thingis, while you're there enjoying
yourself, you're also theregetting help for yourself, and
getting yourself healthy andkeeping and then maintaining
that throughout the differentsessions.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Well, and Cami has us let the company grants.
People want to know how theyare getting all these people to
volunteer and, like I said,nobody's paid and you just do.
(23:25):
It is such a great thing andit's my new purpose.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
You know, I don't work anymore anymore now, but I
go to these um retreats and itjust god is good to put me where
he has put me and and and Iknow this from from going
through my my process of gettingyou know, finding jesus and
(23:52):
starting this organization um,one of the big things I was
missing when I got out of lawenforcement was a sense of
purpose.
I felt like I gave up myidentity, my purpose.
Getting to do what I do now issuch a blessing because it has
given me a purpose.
And what you guys are doing bygiving up your time, talent and
treasure to drive there on yourown money to help others, that
(24:15):
is a new purpose and it's apurpose that you know in this
dark world that we live in, weneed to have a purpose and shine
in the light, and being a lightfor somebody is the most
purposeful thing we can do.
So I admire both of you fordoing that and it sounds like
you've been there several times.
It sounds like you still planon going in the future.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Oh yeah, I've been to 10.
And I plan on going in thefuture.
I plan on, as long as they'llhave me, I will.
And they're like every month orevery other month, and it's
been going on for two years andit just keeps getting bigger and
(24:54):
better.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
So you've got to see it grow a little bit then.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Yes, they don't take a whole lot of people.
In that way, they're able toreally help people instead of
having a huge group.
It's just a nice size.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
It's about quality, not quantity and when you say
bring people, that they onlyallow so many people in, what
you're not saying is you'resaying that per session, per per
retreat, they try not to bringa lot of people in.
It doesn't mean that they onlyallow so many people to get help
.
They want to help everybodythat reaches out.
It's just, they're very smartand let's keep it small, let's
keep it and let's keep itpersonal right sometimes.
It's just, they're very smartand let's keep it small.
(25:36):
Let's keep it and let's keep itpersonal right.
Sometimes it's when it's toobig.
You can kind of get lost in thecrowd and so it's just the
right size that's fantastic, sois there any type?
and so, mike, you said before,if, if they accept you, you you
can go to it.
When you say, if you, you can,if you get accepted, is it
really much of an acceptanceprocess?
(25:57):
I mean, I don't want people athome thinking, um well, maybe my
story's not, maybe my trauma isnot trauma enough to be able to
go to this.
And I know that's not what youmeant, but I do want to clarify
it for the people.
Would you, would you jump onthat?
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Well, it's easy and um, what I mean when I say that
is that you know, number one,people need to realize that when
they're acting in the capacityof first responder status,
whether they're active orretired or otherwise disengaged
from that they've still beentraumatized and all they need to
really be able to say is I needhelp.
I've struggled and I've hadthese things from my work
related capacity that haveaffected me or my family in a
way that I don't like and I'mwilling to do some work and get
(26:55):
help for that.
That I don't like and I'mwilling to do some work and get
help for that.
One of the things that is anexpectation while you're there
is that you'll?
you know, if there's anysubstance abuse or alcohol
dependency that's presenting asa problem is that the person
would be committed to beingsober while they're there so
(27:15):
that they can think and processproperly.
And maybe they need helpsomewhere else before they come
to the retreat, that you knowthat if they're not able to to
stay sober long enough to bethere for the three and a half
four days.
That's really what it's about,and the people that sign up to
(27:42):
attend the retreat typicallywill be a word of mouth referral
.
For instance, somebody will callDan Deffenbach and say, hey,
what about this?
How can I get connected withthat?
And you'll give them maybe aphone number for us, or you'll
give them Cammie's email addressfrom the document you're
sharing there on the screen andshe takes it from there, and so
(28:07):
most of the time it's just afive-minute conversation and
they just want you to get there,just get there.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Yeah, if you're at home and you're thinking about
this, please don't compare yourtrauma.
I used to do that.
I used to think, well, there'sso many people out there that
are worse than me.
They've gone through more.
I'm from small town, iowa, orwhatever it may be.
Don't compare your trauma.
If you're hurt, you're hurt.
It affects all of usdifferently.
So please don't minimize whatyou're going through and please
(28:37):
know that you're not taking upsomebody else's spot when you go
, and you're valuable.
They have spots for everybody.
So don't feel like that,because that's how I used to be.
What were you going to say, pam?
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Tammy makes a special point to say you don't have to
qualify why you're here or whyyou shouldn't be here and
everybody has different forms oftrauma and it's just such an
open place to get help and it'sone of those things you can't
(29:11):
explain help and it's one ofthose things you can't explain.
But when you've gone through itit's amazing.
And you're talking to.
You know police that have.
You know they have not justpolice but first responders who
(29:32):
are having affairs.
You know drinking, gambling, youknow suicide, yeah being human
and you don't have to quantifywhy, and it's for everybody, and
getting help is life-changing.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
It has been life-changing for us to be a
part of this it sounds like theykind of have the same
principles that we do.
There's no guilt, no shame.
Come as you are Right, andthat's biblical as well.
Yeah, they don't care, justlike with our organization, we
don't care if you got hired orjust got fired.
Yeah, we know when we strugglewith our mental health, it gets
(30:19):
messy.
We know that pain lovespleasure and pain loves simple
pleasure.
And when you're dealing withuntreated trauma, you're going
to do things to try to numb thatpain.
And there's no judgment andthere's no guilt and there's no
shame.
They're not going to yell atyou when you go there.
They're going to walk alongsideyou and and give you some tools
(30:43):
and and ways to to start yourhealing process and and to get
to a place that you probablynever thought you could get.
Yeah, I would love to have.
Maybe sometime you guys cantalk to cami.
I'd love to have her onsometime with you guys as well
oh yeah, you can ask her and, uh, get her on here for our
listeners.
um, if you're listening on audioonly, again, there's a flyer
that I'm showing on the screenhere Kind of bouncing around
(31:04):
between my two screens here hasa lot of good information.
Pam, I'm surprised how manyretreats they have a year.
I mean, this isn't a place thatjust does one a year or
anything like that.
I'm looking at this calendar.
They had one in January, one inFebruary, one in March, there's
one.
The next one is coming up June29th through July 2nd, there's
(31:27):
one in August, one in Novemberand one in December.
So there's several dates forfolks to sign up for that, and
then the following year I'm surethey're going to have more as
well.
Yes, look at this, I'll also putit on.
I'll put a link in the audioonly files for for um, itunes
and spotify and that, so youguys can have this resource as
well.
It's got the dates.
(31:47):
It's got some information.
It's got some stuff in heretalking about what pam was
talking about, where the limitedregistration event 15 to 18
people.
So we're not talking 50 to 100or 200 people in a room, this is
15 to 18.
This is personal.
This is where you guys can getto know others who have
(32:07):
struggled in the past and somethat are struggling currently,
and you could get help.
You don't have to walk alone.
It looks like you get plenty ofhelp here and I love how it's
in a hotel setting.
Do you have to share rooms withanybody, or does each person
get their own room?
Speaker 2 (32:22):
All private suites.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Any strip searching or anything like that.
When you get there, do theymake you go through a process?
Some places do, and that's whyI want to let people know that
some places do and some don't.
The ones that do, that's not abad thing.
There's a reason why they dothat, but this one doesn't sound
like that.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
They take your word that you want to get help and
that you're there for a purposeand on purpose, but it's also
just a great time and getting toknow people and even though
I've been to so many, I learnsomething new every time.
I've been to so many, I learnsomething new every time and
(33:04):
I've made some friendships thatcontinue and it just makes my
heart happy.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
It was CS Lewis that said I keep it up here on my
board here, but it saysfriendship is born.
At the moment, one person saysto another what you too.
I thought I was the only onegoing through that.
And that's what this place is.
It makes you realize you arenot alone and what you're going
through is not unique.
And I'm not saying that tominimize what you've gone
(33:28):
through.
What I'm saying is what you'regoing through is normal, meaning
that there's a lot of otherpeople going through it.
You are not broken, you are notdestroyed.
You are not destroyed.
You are not just a one off ofsomebody who couldn't make it or
was too weak.
None of that is the case.
And when you go to theseretreats, whether it's this one
or other ones, you truly get tobuild some, some companionship
(33:50):
and some friends that are reallydeeply rooted, because you all
come from a place of of hurt andhealing.
And these retreats are magical,and I know Mike good enough to
know he wouldn't go to this manyof them if they weren't
fruitful.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Check out this information.
What's that, buddy, is that youfind out sometime, after a
little work, you find out thatthere is a light on the other
(34:29):
side.
That is a great reward for theinvestment that's paid into
getting yourself better and uh,and discontinuing this uh
thought process of self loathingand and feeling like uh you
(34:51):
know, sometimes we put that onourselves, uh, as a as a way to
um.
I think cope with the the painthat you're going through and
trying to punish yourself whenthat's totally unnecessary and
doesn't make sense, but peopledo that.
I've done that.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Good word, yes.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
Punishing your own self and thinking that somehow
that's going to make adifference in your emotional
wellness and it's just.
It doesn't work that way andbreaking that cycle through,
maybe just trying something newand different that can just give
(35:33):
you the tools.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
You need to get better.
Yeah, and no guilt, no shame.
I mean, I was addicted toalcohol, I was addicted to pain
pills, I was doing a lot ofthings I wasn't proud of.
Um, and people still love me,they still love you and I'm
telling you they're gonna loveyou through that and for that.
Um, life's messy there's plentyof this.
People in this world, you know,and the outside, that are
(35:58):
trying to tear us down, um,trying to ruin, you know
everybody's so hard on everybodyanymore.
But finding a community likePam and Mike and this
organization, haymakers I'm sureI got that right again
Haymarket I don't know why Ikeep saying haymaker like throw
a haymaker.
Mike, we've been hit with somehaymakers, haven't we?
We've thrown our own too.
We've thrown a few ourselves,but what a great resource.
(36:22):
Mike and Pam, I know I'vetalked to you guys about being
ambassadors for the 1042 Project, walking alongside other first
responders here in the state.
If somebody wants to find outsome more information about this
and maybe they don't feelcomfortable sending an email to
Cammie, I encourage you to dothat.
But they want to talk to youguys first.
(36:42):
Is that something you guyswould be open to?
Absolutely Okay, and how wouldyou like for people to get a
hold of you that way?
Do you want them to contact meand I send them to you, or do
you just want to go ahead andgive an email out or a cell
phone or whatever you feelcomfortable with?
Speaker 2 (36:56):
I'm giving my phone number and they can call.
You can call somebody comes toyou and we'd be glad to help get
them the help that they need,for sure let's uh.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Why don't you go ahead and throw that out there?
Okay, 515-205-9611, and it'spam I love that the last four
has nine one one in it.
Okay, I'm gonna show that.
Oh wait a minute.
(37:33):
There we go.
So if you're watching, you'regonna see that on your screen.
Is that the correct?
Speaker 3 (37:37):
number.
Oh, it's an alarm you're allright.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
you're not the first one to have that happen.
But if you're watching on video, you're going to see the number
pop up there, but if not,that's 515-205-9611.
And I can tell you from knowingthese people they're lovely
people.
They have the heart of Christin them.
They're not there to guilt orshame you, but they do want to
walk alongside you.
So if you have questions aboutthis retreat or if there's just
(38:08):
something about them that youconnected with, they are
ambassadors for our organizationand I want you guys to get to
know them.
They are a wonderful resourcefor you.
So reach out.
Reach out to 1042project,10-42projectorg.
But if you don't want to gothrough that, you want to go
directly to Pam and Mike.
That phone number's up thereand I thank you guys for putting
that up there and being willingto walk alongside other people,
because I always tell people inthe 1042 Project, 80% of what
(38:34):
we do, and the most powerfulpart of it, is just showing up
for people.
People just need people to showup for them and sometimes just
sit in a cycle of sock with them, not to not to tell them what
to do, but kind of give themsome options and let them know
they're loved um, so thank youguys for that um.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
any last words out of you guys before I let you go
dan, one of the things that Iwanted to say was that some of
the times in my life whether itwas a Christian or a
non-Christian that was helpingme walk through a difficult time
probably the best thing Iremember about that experience
(39:17):
is as that person that was thereto try and help me just sat and
listened, and they didn't havea lot of advice, they might not
have said very much at all, butI just knew that I wasn't alone
and that they were with me, andthat made the world of
difference in my life and ifthere's people out there that
just need somebody just tolisten and be nonjudgmental and
(39:40):
just to just to be there so youknow you're not alone.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
That's really the most important thing and mike's
not alone.
Right now his phone's going off.
He's got, he's not.
He's never alone blowing it up.
Um, just real quick for thelisteners.
I just want to say a quickprayer.
I don't always do this, um, Ijust feel led to it right now.
There's a God who loves you andI know you're going through a
(40:06):
lot of hurt and pain right nowand I know it feels like you're
in this cycle that is nevergoing to stop, that there's no
hope.
You may have tried everything,but I just want to say a quick
prayer for you guys, because Ijust feel the Holy Spirit moving
.
Heavenly Father, we just come toyou, god.
We just come to you as brokenchildren, children who have gone
through trauma, children whohave gone through the horrors of
(40:28):
what happens here on earth andthe attacks of the enemy.
God, I'm so thankful for Mikeand Pam, for your healing in
their life, god, for youbringing in healing to them and
also repurposing them to be thelight.
To be the light for you and forour listeners.
Father God, I just ask that youtouch them, reveal yourself to
(40:50):
them.
Father God, show them thatpeace beyond all understanding
that you've shown me and thatyou continue to show Mike and
Pam as well.
God, I just thank you for them.
I ask for you that you justempower them to reach out for
help.
God, as we're praying, I justask you that they feel your
presence, that they feel howmuch they're loved, that they
(41:10):
were created on purpose and fora purpose.
Thank you for them.
Thank you for their courage toeven listen to a podcast like
this.
God, we just pray that ablessing over them and healing,
and let them know how much of afamily they have, not just in
you, but in us as well.
They are not alone.
They do not need to walk alone.
They have you to walk with, andthen we will walk along with
(41:33):
them ourselves.
God, we ask for restorationsover their life, over their
mental health, their physicalhealth, their spiritual health,
their marriages and theirrelationships.
We thank you for this healing.
We thank you for this healing.
We thank you for being such agood, forgiving father.
In Jesus name, amen.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Amen.
Thanks, daniel, thank you.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Thank you guys, and I will see you guys.
I'll let you know when I'mgoing to be at the police
Academy next, cause I want youall to show up with Luna.
Luna's probably still sleeping.
Huh, Luna, you got to saygoodbye, Luna.
Let's see a wave out of Luna.
Lift her up for you honey, oh,lift her.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Well, she weighs 90 pounds.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
There you go.
Get up there, luna.
There we go.
There's Luna.
Alright, guys, we love you andthanks for listening.
This has been another episodeof the shared voices podcast.
We love y'all.
Goodbye, bye, bye.
Welcome to the Shared Voices podcast brought to you
by the 1042 Project.
We are here with anotherexciting episode with Mike and
Pam.
This is the second.
This is part two part two of asit down that I did with Mike
and Pam, and if you have notlistened to the first part, I
would encourage you to go back.
Whether you're listeningthrough Apple, itunes or Spotify
(00:26):
or any streaming source,youtube go back and give it a
listen.
You can do it after this one.
You don't have to shut this oneoff and go back.
You'll still be able to followalong, but I would encourage you
to go back and listen to whatwe talk about in that last one.
I believe there's a lot of greatinformation, great information
that you and your family andspouse and everybody can get out
(00:46):
of it.
So, again, this is part twowith Mike and Pam, and thank you
guys for sticking around alittle bit longer.
I just didn't want to try tojam it all in in one episode.
You guys have too much stuffand I'll have you guys back on
the podcast in the future too.
I'll have you guys back on thepodcast in the future too, but I
at least wanted to get anotheropportunity to for people to
(01:07):
hear what you guys have beendoing and some of the treatment
and some of the help that youguys have had in in how you're
helping others at that treatmentfacility.
Pam, I'll start with you.
You're so passionate about thisand you're passionate for the
same reason.
I'm passionate is becauseyou've been there and Mike's
been there.
We've been through it.
The passion and the compassionthat's inside of us, that God's
(01:32):
put in us, it's not a degree youcan buy.
It's something that it's livedexperience.
It's going through the pain,through the hurt, going through
the uncomfortableness of askingfor help.
But the uncomfortableness thatit may feel to ask for help, the
(01:53):
consequences of not asking forhelp is going to be a lot more
uncomfortable.
And I know that you guys havehad a great experience and I'll
share my screen here for alittle bit.
And if you're listening on justthe audio platform through
iTunes or Apple, if you want togo to the YouTube stream, you'll
be able to see the screen I'mgoing to be pulling up here.
(02:14):
That's going to talk about theorganization that they've
received help from and that nowthey go to give help because
that's what God's called us todo.
So, pam, if you want to goahead and get started that and
as you get talking, I'm going topull this screen up.
Number one how'd you hear fromhim?
And I know you and correct meif I'm wrong, but I know that
you and I believe both of you,have tried other places as well.
(02:35):
What was different about thisplace?
And if our listeners arethinking about reaching out to
this facility, could you helppaint them a picture of what
it's like to go through it as afirst responder and some of the
fears you had, but yet the joyand healing that you found there
?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
It's so neat how God works, and I was on my computer
looking at the website from myfederal team even though I
haven't done it since 2017 andthere was something in there
that talked about this.
This was and um it, it.
(03:14):
It is totally god that I sawthat got put together with that,
(03:37):
not only for my healing, butfor the honor of helping walk
somebody else through theirs,and so we went to it.
We didn't know what to expectand I said it's a hundred
(04:02):
percent paid for through grantsand the Haymarket square and Wow
.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So you don't, the first responders don't have to
worry about trying to get moneyout of the savings account and
scratch.
And you know cause?
That's a big barrier, Pam is,is the finances right?
It's not like law enforcementand any first responder job.
We're not in it for the money,right?
That's great to hear.
So they have a grant program,so somebody needs help.
That that's not a barrieranymore.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
And it's not an expense.
You go to Chicago, you havefour days in the embassy suites.
That's all free.
All of our meals fancy meals weall eat together.
And what's funny, they don'twant us to stay up late.
(04:49):
And what's funny is eighto'clock at night you're ready
and I've never slept better.
And so the first day it'sinteresting because you've got
people with differentexperiences and everybody who
shows up, some are there becausethey've been told by their
(05:11):
employees that they have to.
Others have just come across,like we did, and go to it and
within the first five hours, oneat a time, we tell I call it
our monster.
You know what brought you to it?
(05:33):
And listening to all these hurtpeople and just admiring, and
just admiring what they do.
And you know, I've seen some ofthese officers and I'd say, boy
, I couldn't do that.
You know, get kicked, beat,spit on, shot at, and I couldn't
(06:00):
do it, I couldn't go back towork that next day.
And then they look at me andsay, well, we couldn't do your
job, yep.
So it's interesting.
But it just seems like there'sso much tension at first and
then, once everybody has toldtheir story, you just see a
(06:22):
camaraderie.
That is just amazing and you'dswear by the second day that we
had all been friends for a lotlonger and just the support that
we offer each other and youknow there's large group and
(06:44):
learning that, what your bodygoes through with PTSD and
trauma, and it just I can't sayenough good about it and I
personally have seen it help somany people.
And it's not faith-based,unfortunately, but there's also
(07:08):
no restriction from Mike and Italking about how Christ can
help them through it and thathe'll meet them where they're at
and just start that healingprocess.
And then, as far as Luna, godtakes your passion and makes it
(07:35):
for the greater of good.
I've always had pets horses,dogs.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Mike.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
I just really.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
He's kind of a pet.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
And I just really think it is amazing that God
took my passion of animals andwhat she's doing in Chicago.
And what she's doing in Chicagowe're hoping to get more done
(08:13):
around the local area also.
But those in Chicago have myheart and something that I would
do was, um, usually towards theend, I would say I have a
strong faith in Jesus Christ andI want you to know that I pray
(08:36):
for you every day, every morningI will pray for you, for you,
and the thank yous are, you know, written on notes, you know,
told hugs and so, even ifthey're not at the same place as
(08:56):
me, they appreciate so much.
And for them to know that, atthis old woman praying for them
every morning, I think givesthem a lot of, just a lot of
warm fuzzies.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Yeah, and I like that you said that because I want to
say this to people you know weare a faith-based organization,
but we're not here to push ourfaith on anybody.
We're not here.
You know, um, I know I had alot of church hurt, a lot of
christian hurt growing up.
You know a lot of people thinkthey're very demanding and in
your face and you have to dothis.
There's a lot of good help outthere that's not faith-based and
(09:35):
and we I can say that for thethree of us we all support that.
We, we encourage people to goto it.
But if there is, you know, alsoas going to that stuff, like
Mike likes to tell me, you cantake your faith with you when
you go and the programs thataren't faith-based do wonderful
things.
(09:55):
But I think there's an extrastep of healing when you add
Jesus into your healing processand into your relationship,
because how you believe and whathappens to us once we pass will
dictate how you run your life,how you, how you live your life.
And if you believe, we just dieand go into dust and that's it,
you're going to live your lifelike that.
But if you understand that weare here temporarily, this is
(10:16):
not our home.
We belong to jesus and we willbe going home with him and that
even through our hurt and pain,we can can get healing and we
can use that healing to helpothers.
And that's the biblicalprinciple.
Message is we don't get betterjust for ourselves.
We get better to point peopletowards Jesus so they can get
help.
The disciples in the Bible werethe first 12, but they sure the
(10:40):
heck weren't the last.
We are still disciples today.
So, mike, what would you sayabout that?
Because you love to say.
I remember when I was talkingabout this before you said hey,
man, you can bring your faithwith you.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Well, you're going to take your faith with you,
aren't you?
Yeah, Well, here's what I wouldsay about that.
I think about the cross, and Ithink about Calvary, and I think
about the centurion that wasstanding there.
He's probably amongst thecenturions that were crucifying
(11:12):
our Lord and they were gamblingfor his robe, and one of those
centurions that was the lawenforcement officer of the time
looked up and after the cloudsrolled up like a scroll and the
earthquake shook the groundaround them, and he looked up
(11:33):
and he knew what had happened.
And he knew, surely this was theSon of God.
You know, and we're allpresented with that decision,
decision time, because we're allborn into this world as sinners
.
And I just think to myselfsurely this man, Jesus Christ of
(11:55):
Nazareth, was the Son of Godthat died for my sins?
I don't have to live in thatsin anymore because I've been
forgiven.
But it doesn't negate theconsequences of my humanity as
I'm walking through this earthfor a short period of time,
(12:19):
opportunity to receive healing,whether it's from a physician,
whether it's from a therapist,whether it's from maybe they
don't even know, maybe theydon't have a faith in Christ
like I do, but they've stillbeen gifted by God with talents,
(12:47):
Whether they know it or not.
Yeah, that's right, and there'streatments out there that you
know.
When we went to this firsttrauma retreat in Illinois, well
, I had some experience inIllinois in my college days.
That's where I went to college,and so I get to relive some of
that past, you know, youngerdays, a state that I really love
, and I get to rub shoulderswith these men and women that
(13:09):
are, you know, walking alongthose same places where you know
where I walked along, and I getto develop new friendships and
relationships and I see theseyoung officers and these young
first responders that are.
They're so young, Dan, andthey've got their whole lives
ahead of them.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
And.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
I'm thinking to myself.
You know, listen, I wasn't agreat peace officer.
I did my best, but I made lotsof mistakes.
I made lots of mistakes over theyears.
But I made lots of mistakes.
I made lots of mistakes overthe years and I see these people
and I think, man, you guys aregoing to make such a great
impact on your communities, butyou're also going to make
(13:52):
mistakes and you're going toneed help along the way.
Opportunity to not just work onmy own self and the healing
that I need, but to watch otherpeople's lives get transformed
(14:12):
and find that their job is nottheir identity.
But I found my identity inChrist and finding out how
important that is that you know,when this job goes away, this
life is a vapor.
When this job goes away, whenthis life goes away and I take
my last breath and slip intoeternity and my identity is in
(14:35):
Christ.
Experience God has for me inthat security of knowing that
I'm his child and that he lovesme.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
And then all of the struggle that I've had.
I know I can trust him thatit's going to be worth it.
So walk me through this.
So how I?
If somebody's listening andthey want to go check out this
facility and there's facilitiesall over the country, more and
more are propping up, but we'retalking about the haymaker
center in chicago.
Um, hey, market center, heymarket center.
I'm gonna share my screen again.
(15:21):
Um, what is it like to reachout to them?
Is it scary?
What's the process like whenyou show up, when you arrive,
you know that's where we've sentpeople to treatment before and
they've flown all the way downto, say, florida, um, got all
the way up to the front doors,um, and some couldn't go in
right or some went through, somewent through the intake process
(15:43):
, where sometimes it can beintrusive.
Sometimes they can, you know,especially when you're a first
responder and you're not used tohaving your body searched and
stuff like that, and I know alltreatment facilities are
different.
We've had some people turnaround and leave at that point.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Nothing like that.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Walk us through it.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Here's what happened with me and Pam.
Pam found on her DMORT Facebookpage, I think, about Haymarket
Center having this traumaretreat and it was geared
towards first responders.
You could be a policeman, aretired policeman, a retired
(16:22):
nurse, a retired firefighter.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
EMS.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Any kind of first responders, frontline CCU nurses
, just whoever needed help.
Give them an email.
You email the policepsychologist, cami, that teaches
this four-day retreat.
And it's teaching.
(16:48):
It's not relaxing I meanthere's downtime, but it's
learning and it's teaching howto be well and how to recover
after you've been injured, afteryou've had trauma, injury,
whatever that looks like for youand email them and Cammie will
(17:09):
get back with you and she willmake sure that you're, you know,
fitting the criteria, which isbasically just what I said
somebody that's struggling andthen she'll make sure that
you're the right fit to comeover there and it's a relaxed
environment.
I went with Pam initially thefirst time because I thought
what is she getting into here?
(17:32):
You're being protective husband,you're not going by yourself,
I'll go with you.
Then I said no, we showed up.
Not the first time you told him,no, I'm sure about it was um,
you know, dr Cammy said well,now listen, mike.
Um, if Pam doesn't want to bein the same, uh, you know, small
(17:52):
groups with me you're going tohave to, you're going to have to
trust that she, that she'sgoing to be okay and you're
going to.
You know it, it was and thatwas the best thing that could
have happened because I didn'tknow that.
She said now listen Mike that'sexact and she is so.
She's so down to earth and allof the people who are the, the
(18:15):
the staff that's that's workingthere.
They're experts in their lot intheir line of therapy and
treatment.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
And it's all volunteer.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
They're all volunteers whoa, I did not know
that it's wonderful, and so thewonderful thing about that is
that, um, you're there withpeople you can trust who have
been around the block like youhave that's so important and so
um and so.
Long story short, we got thereand we you know it's free, it's
(18:49):
free of charge.
You have no reason not to go,except you got to pay for your
gas to get there.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Do you have to live in a certain region to be able
to go to this place, or?
It's just out of Chicago, butthey treat.
They will see anybody in the.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
United States.
It's just at the embassy suites, you know, in the convention
room.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
So it's not like a doctor setting or anything it's
a relaxed setting.
How cool is that.
I didn't know that.
Put your hair down.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
You don't have any hair.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Mike, Maybe back when you were in Chicago in the old
days you had hair.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Listen, it'll happen to you too.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Until then, I'm going to be a smart butt.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
I heard nothing good about this.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Cammie that you guys have mentioned.
I've heard nothing but goodthings about her.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Is she the one that meets you when you get there?
Is she the contact the wholetime?
Yep.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
She teaches it, then you have other people teaching
something else, and large groups, small group.
Like I said, everybody staysthere, everybody eats together.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Not to mention any names, but there are people
there that are very well knownand very….
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Respected in their field.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Respected in their field and they have changed the
world and doing tasks that arejust very interesting and very
insightful, and this is thething that helps a person who
might go to attend is to work ontheir own wellness, is learning
(20:37):
from those people who have sucha wealth of information to
share with you, and it's justwonderful.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
And a heart for it.
I think we were only into daytwo of before want to help with
this, and Mike said me too.
And so when we asked Tammy,she's like, of course.
And so she said but you need toremember and I thought she was
(21:12):
going to say it's about them now, not you, but it was the
opposite.
She said I want you to continueworking on yourself and don't
take on too much of others, thatyou start drowning, and just
how appreciative everybody isthere.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
I go as a peer volunteer, and so what I'm there
to do is to fill a seat and tohelp make other people feel
comfortable getting help forthemselves by allowing them to
watch me be willing to putmyself out and get help for
(22:00):
myself.
I'm probably not going to beable to help them I'm not an
expert in helping other peopledeal with trauma but what I can
do is be honest in front of themand getting help for myself,
whether it's going through anEMDR session to try and
disconnect the emotion from thememory that might be troubling
(22:24):
me.
It may be sitting in a smallgroup and just being honest in a
small group setting aboutthings that have bothered me
over the years and giving theman opportunity to, if they want
to talk about some things thatmaybe they feel like they could
use some help, working on fromthe therapists that are there.
(22:44):
And so this is the good thingis, while you're there enjoying
yourself, you're also theregetting help for yourself, and
getting yourself healthy andkeeping and then maintaining
that throughout the differentsessions.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Well, and Cami has us let the company grants.
People want to know how theyare getting all these people to
volunteer and, like I said,nobody's paid and you just do.
(23:25):
It is such a great thing andit's my new purpose.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
You know, I don't work anymore anymore now, but I
go to these um retreats and itjust god is good to put me where
he has put me and and and Iknow this from from going
through my my process of gettingyou know, finding jesus and
(23:52):
starting this organization um,one of the big things I was
missing when I got out of lawenforcement was a sense of
purpose.
I felt like I gave up myidentity, my purpose.
Getting to do what I do now issuch a blessing because it has
given me a purpose.
And what you guys are doing bygiving up your time, talent and
treasure to drive there on yourown money to help others, that
(24:15):
is a new purpose and it's apurpose that you know in this
dark world that we live in, weneed to have a purpose and shine
in the light, and being a lightfor somebody is the most
purposeful thing we can do.
So I admire both of you fordoing that and it sounds like
you've been there several times.
It sounds like you still planon going in the future.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Oh yeah, I've been to 10.
And I plan on going in thefuture.
I plan on, as long as they'llhave me, I will.
And they're like every month orevery other month, and it's
been going on for two years andit just keeps getting bigger and
(24:54):
better.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
So you've got to see it grow a little bit then.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Yes, they don't take a whole lot of people.
In that way, they're able toreally help people instead of
having a huge group.
It's just a nice size.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
It's about quality, not quantity and when you say
bring people, that they onlyallow so many people in, what
you're not saying is you'resaying that per session, per per
retreat, they try not to bringa lot of people in.
It doesn't mean that they onlyallow so many people to get help
.
They want to help everybodythat reaches out.
It's just, they're very smartand let's keep it small, let's
keep it and let's keep itpersonal right sometimes.
It's just, they're very smartand let's keep it small.
(25:36):
Let's keep it and let's keep itpersonal right.
Sometimes it's when it's toobig.
You can kind of get lost in thecrowd and so it's just the
right size that's fantastic, sois there any type?
and so, mike, you said before,if, if they accept you, you you
can go to it.
When you say, if you, you can,if you get accepted, is it
really much of an acceptanceprocess?
(25:57):
I mean, I don't want people athome thinking, um well, maybe my
story's not, maybe my trauma isnot trauma enough to be able to
go to this.
And I know that's not what youmeant, but I do want to clarify
it for the people.
Would you, would you jump onthat?
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Well, it's easy and um, what I mean when I say that
is that you know, number one,people need to realize that when
they're acting in the capacityof first responder status,
whether they're active orretired or otherwise disengaged
from that they've still beentraumatized and all they need to
really be able to say is I needhelp.
I've struggled and I've hadthese things from my work
related capacity that haveaffected me or my family in a
way that I don't like and I'mwilling to do some work and get
(26:55):
help for that.
That I don't like and I'mwilling to do some work and get
help for that.
One of the things that is anexpectation while you're there
is that you'll?
you know, if there's anysubstance abuse or alcohol
dependency that's presenting asa problem is that the person
would be committed to beingsober while they're there so
(27:15):
that they can think and processproperly.
And maybe they need helpsomewhere else before they come
to the retreat, that you knowthat if they're not able to to
stay sober long enough to bethere for the three and a half
four days.
That's really what it's about,and the people that sign up to
(27:42):
attend the retreat typicallywill be a word of mouth referral
.
For instance, somebody will callDan Deffenbach and say, hey,
what about this?
How can I get connected withthat?
And you'll give them maybe aphone number for us, or you'll
give them Cammie's email addressfrom the document you're
sharing there on the screen andshe takes it from there, and so
(28:07):
most of the time it's just afive-minute conversation and
they just want you to get there,just get there.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Yeah, if you're at home and you're thinking about
this, please don't compare yourtrauma.
I used to do that.
I used to think, well, there'sso many people out there that
are worse than me.
They've gone through more.
I'm from small town, iowa, orwhatever it may be.
Don't compare your trauma.
If you're hurt, you're hurt.
It affects all of usdifferently.
So please don't minimize whatyou're going through and please
(28:37):
know that you're not taking upsomebody else's spot when you go
, and you're valuable.
They have spots for everybody.
So don't feel like that,because that's how I used to be.
What were you going to say, pam?
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Tammy makes a special point to say you don't have to
qualify why you're here or whyyou shouldn't be here and
everybody has different forms oftrauma and it's just such an
open place to get help and it'sone of those things you can't
(29:11):
explain help and it's one ofthose things you can't explain.
But when you've gone through itit's amazing.
And you're talking to.
You know police that have.
You know they have not justpolice but first responders who
(29:32):
are having affairs.
You know drinking, gambling, youknow suicide, yeah being human
and you don't have to quantifywhy, and it's for everybody, and
getting help is life-changing.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
It has been life-changing for us to be a
part of this it sounds like theykind of have the same
principles that we do.
There's no guilt, no shame.
Come as you are Right, andthat's biblical as well.
Yeah, they don't care, justlike with our organization, we
don't care if you got hired orjust got fired.
Yeah, we know when we strugglewith our mental health, it gets
(30:19):
messy.
We know that pain lovespleasure and pain loves simple
pleasure.
And when you're dealing withuntreated trauma, you're going
to do things to try to numb thatpain.
And there's no judgment andthere's no guilt and there's no
shame.
They're not going to yell atyou when you go there.
They're going to walk alongsideyou and and give you some tools
(30:43):
and and ways to to start yourhealing process and and to get
to a place that you probablynever thought you could get.
Yeah, I would love to have.
Maybe sometime you guys cantalk to cami.
I'd love to have her onsometime with you guys as well
oh yeah, you can ask her and, uh, get her on here for our
listeners.
um, if you're listening on audioonly, again, there's a flyer
that I'm showing on the screenhere Kind of bouncing around
(31:04):
between my two screens here hasa lot of good information.
Pam, I'm surprised how manyretreats they have a year.
I mean, this isn't a place thatjust does one a year or
anything like that.
I'm looking at this calendar.
They had one in January, one inFebruary, one in March, there's
one.
The next one is coming up June29th through July 2nd, there's
(31:27):
one in August, one in Novemberand one in December.
So there's several dates forfolks to sign up for that, and
then the following year I'm surethey're going to have more as
well.
Yes, look at this, I'll also putit on.
I'll put a link in the audioonly files for for um, itunes
and spotify and that, so youguys can have this resource as
well.
It's got the dates.
(31:47):
It's got some information.
It's got some stuff in heretalking about what pam was
talking about, where the limitedregistration event 15 to 18
people.
So we're not talking 50 to 100or 200 people in a room, this is
15 to 18.
This is personal.
This is where you guys can getto know others who have
(32:07):
struggled in the past and somethat are struggling currently,
and you could get help.
You don't have to walk alone.
It looks like you get plenty ofhelp here and I love how it's
in a hotel setting.
Do you have to share rooms withanybody, or does each person
get their own room?
Speaker 2 (32:22):
All private suites.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Any strip searching or anything like that.
When you get there, do theymake you go through a process?
Some places do, and that's whyI want to let people know that
some places do and some don't.
The ones that do, that's not abad thing.
There's a reason why they dothat, but this one doesn't sound
like that.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
They take your word that you want to get help and
that you're there for a purposeand on purpose, but it's also
just a great time and getting toknow people and even though
I've been to so many, I learnsomething new every time.
I've been to so many, I learnsomething new every time and
(33:04):
I've made some friendships thatcontinue and it just makes my
heart happy.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
It was CS Lewis that said I keep it up here on my
board here, but it saysfriendship is born.
At the moment, one person saysto another what you too.
I thought I was the only onegoing through that.
And that's what this place is.
It makes you realize you arenot alone and what you're going
through is not unique.
And I'm not saying that tominimize what you've gone
(33:28):
through.
What I'm saying is what you'regoing through is normal, meaning
that there's a lot of otherpeople going through it.
You are not broken, you are notdestroyed.
You are not destroyed.
You are not just a one off ofsomebody who couldn't make it or
was too weak.
None of that is the case.
And when you go to theseretreats, whether it's this one
or other ones, you truly get tobuild some, some companionship
(33:50):
and some friends that are reallydeeply rooted, because you all
come from a place of of hurt andhealing.
And these retreats are magical,and I know Mike good enough to
know he wouldn't go to this manyof them if they weren't
fruitful.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Check out this information.
What's that, buddy, is that youfind out sometime, after a
little work, you find out thatthere is a light on the other
(34:29):
side.
That is a great reward for theinvestment that's paid into
getting yourself better and uh,and discontinuing this uh
thought process of self loathingand and feeling like uh you
(34:51):
know, sometimes we put that onourselves, uh, as a as a way to
um.
I think cope with the the painthat you're going through and
trying to punish yourself whenthat's totally unnecessary and
doesn't make sense, but peopledo that.
I've done that.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Good word, yes.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
Punishing your own self and thinking that somehow
that's going to make adifference in your emotional
wellness and it's just.
It doesn't work that way andbreaking that cycle through,
maybe just trying something newand different that can just give
(35:33):
you the tools.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
You need to get better.
Yeah, and no guilt, no shame.
I mean, I was addicted toalcohol, I was addicted to pain
pills, I was doing a lot ofthings I wasn't proud of.
Um, and people still love me,they still love you and I'm
telling you they're gonna loveyou through that and for that.
Um, life's messy there's plentyof this.
People in this world, you know,and the outside, that are
(35:58):
trying to tear us down, um,trying to ruin, you know
everybody's so hard on everybodyanymore.
But finding a community likePam and Mike and this
organization, haymakers I'm sureI got that right again
Haymarket I don't know why Ikeep saying haymaker like throw
a haymaker.
Mike, we've been hit with somehaymakers, haven't we?
We've thrown our own too.
We've thrown a few ourselves,but what a great resource.
(36:22):
Mike and Pam, I know I'vetalked to you guys about being
ambassadors for the 1042 Project, walking alongside other first
responders here in the state.
If somebody wants to find outsome more information about this
and maybe they don't feelcomfortable sending an email to
Cammie, I encourage you to dothat.
But they want to talk to youguys first.
(36:42):
Is that something you guyswould be open to?
Absolutely Okay, and how wouldyou like for people to get a
hold of you that way?
Do you want them to contact meand I send them to you, or do
you just want to go ahead andgive an email out or a cell
phone or whatever you feelcomfortable with?
Speaker 2 (36:56):
I'm giving my phone number and they can call.
You can call somebody comes toyou and we'd be glad to help get
them the help that they need,for sure let's uh.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Why don't you go ahead and throw that out there?
Okay, 515-205-9611, and it'spam I love that the last four
has nine one one in it.
Okay, I'm gonna show that.
Oh wait a minute.
(37:33):
There we go.
So if you're watching, you'regonna see that on your screen.
Is that the correct?
Speaker 3 (37:37):
number.
Oh, it's an alarm you're allright.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
you're not the first one to have that happen.
But if you're watching on video, you're going to see the number
pop up there, but if not,that's 515-205-9611.
And I can tell you from knowingthese people they're lovely
people.
They have the heart of Christin them.
They're not there to guilt orshame you, but they do want to
walk alongside you.
So if you have questions aboutthis retreat or if there's just
(38:08):
something about them that youconnected with, they are
ambassadors for our organizationand I want you guys to get to
know them.
They are a wonderful resourcefor you.
So reach out.
Reach out to 1042project,10-42projectorg.
But if you don't want to gothrough that, you want to go
directly to Pam and Mike.
That phone number's up thereand I thank you guys for putting
that up there and being willingto walk alongside other people,
because I always tell people inthe 1042 Project, 80% of what
(38:34):
we do, and the most powerfulpart of it, is just showing up
for people.
People just need people to showup for them and sometimes just
sit in a cycle of sock with them, not to not to tell them what
to do, but kind of give themsome options and let them know
they're loved um, so thank youguys for that um.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
any last words out of you guys before I let you go
dan, one of the things that Iwanted to say was that some of
the times in my life whether itwas a Christian or a
non-Christian that was helpingme walk through a difficult time
probably the best thing Iremember about that experience
(39:17):
is as that person that was thereto try and help me just sat and
listened, and they didn't havea lot of advice, they might not
have said very much at all, butI just knew that I wasn't alone
and that they were with me, andthat made the world of
difference in my life and ifthere's people out there that
just need somebody just tolisten and be nonjudgmental and
(39:40):
just to just to be there so youknow you're not alone.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
That's really the most important thing and mike's
not alone.
Right now his phone's going off.
He's got, he's not.
He's never alone blowing it up.
Um, just real quick for thelisteners.
I just want to say a quickprayer.
I don't always do this, um, Ijust feel led to it right now.
There's a God who loves you andI know you're going through a
(40:06):
lot of hurt and pain right nowand I know it feels like you're
in this cycle that is nevergoing to stop, that there's no
hope.
You may have tried everything,but I just want to say a quick
prayer for you guys, because Ijust feel the Holy Spirit moving
.
Heavenly Father, we just come toyou, god.
We just come to you as brokenchildren, children who have gone
through trauma, children whohave gone through the horrors of
(40:28):
what happens here on earth andthe attacks of the enemy.
God, I'm so thankful for Mikeand Pam, for your healing in
their life, god, for youbringing in healing to them and
also repurposing them to be thelight.
To be the light for you and forour listeners.
Father God, I just ask that youtouch them, reveal yourself to
(40:50):
them.
Father God, show them thatpeace beyond all understanding
that you've shown me and thatyou continue to show Mike and
Pam as well.
God, I just thank you for them.
I ask for you that you justempower them to reach out for
help.
God, as we're praying, I justask you that they feel your
presence, that they feel howmuch they're loved, that they
(41:10):
were created on purpose and fora purpose.
Thank you for them.
Thank you for their courage toeven listen to a podcast like
this.
God, we just pray that ablessing over them and healing,
and let them know how much of afamily they have, not just in
you, but in us as well.
They are not alone.
They do not need to walk alone.
They have you to walk with, andthen we will walk along with
(41:33):
them ourselves.
God, we ask for restorationsover their life, over their
mental health, their physicalhealth, their spiritual health,
their marriages and theirrelationships.
We thank you for this healing.
We thank you for this healing.
We thank you for being such agood, forgiving father.
In Jesus name, amen.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Amen.
Thanks, daniel, thank you.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Thank you guys, and I will see you guys.
I'll let you know when I'mgoing to be at the police
Academy next, cause I want youall to show up with Luna.
Luna's probably still sleeping.
Huh, Luna, you got to saygoodbye, Luna.
Let's see a wave out of Luna.
Lift her up for you honey, oh,lift her.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Well, she weighs 90 pounds.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
There you go.
Get up there, luna.
There we go.
There's Luna.
Alright, guys, we love you andthanks for listening.
This has been another episodeof the shared voices podcast.
We love y'all.
Goodbye, bye, bye.
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