November 17, 2021 • 21 mins
Canadian astronaut and doctor David Saint-Jacques talks to Dr. Bondar about connecting to Earth from space, photography for art and science, and envying birds.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Roberta Bondar (00:02):
The celebration of the 30th anniversary of my
historic spaceflight continuesback here on Earth with this
podcast series Sharing Spacewith Dr. Roberta Bondar. Now
this is an opportunity for youto join me while I explore life,
creativity, flexibility andchange with my guests, some of
the most famous and globallywell respected Canadians. In
(00:24):
each of these podcasts, we willhear a special guest express
personal views about the presentand the future. And if you have
a deep passion for explorationand inquiry, whether it's
through the arts, sciences, orathletics for example, the
storytelling in this series isfor those who wander and those
who wonder. Join me now toexplore how some of the most
(00:47):
notable Canadians exercise theircreativity and curiosity in a
wide array of fields. Unlikethose of the night sky, these
stars are within reach. So let'stap into their energy as they
enlighten us.
Today we welcome Dr. DavidSaint-Jacques, engineer,
astrophysicist and a familyphysician with expertise in
(01:08):
delivering remote medical care.
He is best known for his role asa Canadian astronaut aboard the
International Space Station theISS for his 204 day mission
expeditions 58 and 59. BetweenDecember 2018, and June 2019,
the longest space mission byCanadian to date. After
launching on a Soyuz rocket tothe ISS, he performed
(01:30):
experiments in many fields ofscience, a spacewalk, and even
captured a visiting spacecraftwith a Canadian robotic arm. I'm
thrilled that he immersedhimself in the Bondar
Foundation's migratory birdproject. By capturing images of
several avian quarter's from theISS. He was appointed Officer of
the National Order of Quebec,the challenges of COVID moved
(01:53):
Dr. Saint-Jacques to aid hismedical profession with his
hands on support in frontlinehospital care, even as he
continues with the CanadianSpace Agency, let's begin. When
you were in space, I'm sure thatlooking at the Earth while
because it's different, it's adifferent vantage point, that
(02:14):
there was something that thatyou may have felt that you could
describe or could think aboutthat you might be able to share
with us.
David Saint-Jacques (02:23):
Yes, Roberta certainly. I mean,
you've seen it yourself. And I'msure you'll understand the
there's something endearingabout the beauty and fragility
of the Earth. But I what reallystruck me as a [unknown] you
know, we're all used to theseviews. We know that abstractly,
but when you see the Earthfloating in the completely dead
(02:43):
vacuum of space, I, I found thatI can't understand something
about the human condition thathow exposed we are, and this
otherwise unforgivingenvironment. I mean, space is
just dark and black and full ofradiations. Other celestial
bodies, like the moon is just adead rock. The sun is a ball of
(03:04):
fire, other planets arehopelessly inhospitable, and the
Earth is just this incredibleoasis. It's breathing. She's
alive, she's glowing blue. It'sit's just the contrast with its
environment is incredible.
Roberta Bondar (03:21):
Yeah, and it's you put it so eloquently. The
you're right at the sobering thesobering nature of looking
beyond the planet and thenfeasting your eyes on this
warmth incredibly living it'salmost like a living breathing
light that comes back to oureyes I'd say it isn't it is
quite incredible.
David Saint-Jacques (03:40):
The Earth is our only home in the cosmos
and it's not like we have anoption we just have to take to
be good shepherds and take goodcare of her. So it was the sense
of this just very endearingfragility and sense of exposure.
That was kind of surreal it waskind of not scary but you know
it's very sobering to just seethat like there's there's
(04:04):
nowhere else to go and I thoughtof I thought of humanity as a
you know as a mountain climberon on you know climbing this ice
wall with just one rope andsafety. Like don't mess with
your rope. [Laughter]
Roberta Bondar (04:20):
I must say that sometimes when people see
something a Star Trek moviethere was one that showed them
bringing a whale back from spacebecause they're bringing it back
through time and they're goingto be populating it, I keep
telling people there's no whaleup there that we're bringing
back I mean sure there issunlight and stuff coming in but
I don't know fragments of stuffthat's floating around but
(04:41):
there's there's no whale.
[Laughter]
David Saint-Jacques (04:45):
Yeah, I think it kind of highlights it,
enhanced my the sense ofresponsibility I think that we
should all have within you know,our purview to be good shepherds
and do you know try to at leastavoid doing damage to this just
just this miracle, there's justthis miraculous oasis in the
middle of absolutely nowhere. Itis a wow, it's beautiful. But
(05:08):
it's is kind of is it was aweinspiring to see. So that was
the main, the dominatingfeeling. And then, of course, a
sense of wonder at, you know,the richness of biodiversity on
our planet. How, how comethere's life and how incredibly
(05:32):
complex it is, and varied andresilient is just, you know,
whenever I had a second, I wouldgo to the window, and watch look
at the Earth, because it waslike a miracle. And then, you
know, it's funny now, I'm herein my office, and I look outside
the window, and it's the sameplanet I'm looking at. Right?
It's the same earth. It's justanother perspective. So I tried
(05:55):
to keep that little bit of awonder, I think I brought back
some wonder from space.
Roberta Bondar (06:02):
What about what about when you were doing your
EVA? Or your spacewalk? How didyou manage with that? I mean,
you know, it had to takepictures, and you saw the Earth
again? And could you tell us,
David Saint-Jacques (06:13):
It was so interesting? Yeah. Cuz I had to,
by the time just by the virtueof scheduling, by the time I did
an an EVA I had already been inspace station for over three
months. So I was very used tomicrogravity environment, the
view of the Earth, you know,looking at it from the Cupola.
But I, I wonder everything isdifferent when you're outside, I
(06:34):
just couldn't imagine why is itso different, you know, I would
practice floating in the Cupolaand not touching anything and
with my eyes next to the window.
[Laughter] And maybe that'swhat's going to be like, and
then when I, when I finally gota chance to go out, you get very
busy. So it was just very busy.
And every so often, you know,I'll glance back at the Earth.
And then I got very lucky,because at some point, I had a
(06:57):
piece of hardware to installsomewhere. And it didn't fit. So
I made this Call to MissionControl. Oh, sorry, Houston,
just don't think this is gonnafit. And then a few questions
back and forth. And then herecome this call, you know, "Okay,
stand by". And of course, that'sa gift when you're on a
spacewalk. And so I had like10-15 minutes to myself, at
(07:21):
least that's what it felt like,just looking at the Earth, it
was during the day, and and Ihad this vision as I was hearing
Mission Control, all you hear isone voice of someone, a friend
of yours and mission control,and the another friend of yours
outside. So I had Jeanette andAnne the only two human beings
around. And I felt this greatkind of kinship with humanity.
(07:43):
Funnily enough, I thought, lookat the planet. How big is a
human? Wow, a human, this tiny,I can't even see them right at
this from this scale. But I feltthe presence if you want the
collective presence of 1000s ofpeople over decades, who had
scratched their heads, sweattheir brains to invent this
(08:03):
space station, this space suit,make this possible for me to
just be there, young, freefloating around in space,
looking at the Earth. And I feltthese people you know that
they'll never, they've neverbeen here, they just saw the,
through their imagination. So Ifelt like it was this scale
representative of humanimagination of the incredible
(08:24):
reach of the human mind. So Ididn't feel like I was a tiny
little satellite of the Earth, Ifelt like I was big, I was part
of something huge, the human,the reach of the human mind.
And, you know, as on one hand,you look at the Earth, and it's
sobering, how fragile it is andhow big the problems are that
we're facing, be themecological, political, social,
(08:46):
medical these days. At the sametime, I was reassured, wow we
can do this. There's just nolimits to the power of the human
imagination, internationalteamwork, when we decide to put
our differences aside and worktowards a common goal. Look at
this. It's incredible. We arekeeping human beings in a
completely alien environmentable to look down look upon at
(09:09):
ourselves. So I really felt likea connection to a connection to
home, very strong connection tohome. Isn't it funny? It's like
when you travel, the furtheraway you travel, the stronger
the bond with your own countryis kind of this. I have to leave
Earth to really feel like anEarthling. Finally.
Roberta Bondar (09:28):
Yes, it's a good way of speaking about it. It the
detachment of the planet. It'samazing sometimes how much then
you look forward to things afterso you want to bond more closely
with something and I rememberwhen I came back, it was it was
birdsong. It was sounds ofwater. It was things that I
(09:50):
missed that I knew were on theplanet, but it was so silent,
[laughter] looking at andthinking. There's a lot of stuff
down there and I think abouthuman behaviors and how much
more we can be doing with ourcreativity and our imagination,
the kinds of things, butsometimes I know the way we
treat each other, certainlypolitically, and personally,
(10:10):
sometimes when I see these newstories come in, it's a bit a
bit disconcerting. But then yousee a good news story. And I
feel like, you know, right away,well, hey, you're not, we're not
an all bad species here. Butcertainly human behavior, when
we're in space, if you thinkabout what's going on on the
planet, I think there's no needfor bad stuff we should all get
(10:32):
together and, and solve some ofthe greater problems. Yeah, for
sure.
David Saint-Jacques (10:37):
It is understandable, these are all
struggles and problems that theycome from limited resources, you
know, and from, and from notknowing each other that well,
just the vast distances on thehuman scale, I think we can
solve, we can solve all this Ido I really came back from space
with on one hand, a verysobering understanding of the
(11:00):
magnitude of the challenges. Andon the other hand, just a great
optimism as a father, as acitizen, we can do this, we can
do this, we can, we can fix allof these problems, we just got a
just got to kind of put ourminds to it. And as a, it's one
of my professional sources ofpride to be part of this great
(11:22):
endeavor that demonstratespractically on a daily basis
that we can work together inspace, countries like the US or
Russia, Germany, Japan, Canada,that not so long ago, were at
war with each other, worktogether in space to do
incredible things. And have beendoing doing so for decades. And
(11:43):
just, you know, it gives me itgives me hope to really, really
gives no, it's not easy, butit's like a concrete
demonstration that we can do it.
So of course, we do it everyday.
Roberta Bondar (11:53):
And you were speaking about being a father,
could you just help us in termsof understanding the importance
of photography to your life,like before flight, and in
flight, and now in terms ofhaving as a tool for
communicating things and, andsharing?
David Saint-Jacques (12:12):
Yeah, my, my relationship with photography
started as a teenager, it wasmore for art, I had a even had
a, you know, a black room in myhouse at some point where I
developed my own black and whitefilm. And I liked to take photos
of nature, buildingsarchitecture. And then I don't
know, at some point, I realized,I really care more about people
(12:32):
than about objects. And thereare books full of really, really
nice photos of mountains andbuildings taken by
professionals. So for decades, Ijust took photos of my friends,
again, yeah. And then, and thenbecame a father. And then of
course, like all parents, thenall I take is kid photos of my
kids, and 1000s of them, moviesand photos. But so going back to
(12:57):
space, going to space was like acircling back to this just
interest in the aesthetics ofphotos, we get quite a lot of
training at the Johnson SpaceCenter before spaceflight,
because it's, you know, there'sscientific experiments we do on
board and this on the spacewalkusing Canadarm. All that. But
taking good photos is a bigthing that we bring back to
(13:19):
earth as these nice photos ofthe planet and I, I always
wanted the photos to be usefuland see something interesting,
but also to be beautiful. Theframing, the lighting, have a
bit of a curve of the Earth, alittle bit of the atmosphere
too. So that doesn't look like aGoogle Earth photo. It looks
like a photo taken from aspacecraft. And so I was and
it's an art that's handed overfrom crew member to crew member,
(13:42):
it's one of the things that thesenior crew on board space
station hands you down thesetricks, because we have pretty
high quality photographicequipment. But as you know, the
better the equipment, the moremanual it is, you don't want to
rely on the automated setting.
So you gotta know what you'redoing. And it's you're moving
around the Earth, it's movingfast. It's like taking photos of
a bird I suppose. There's onlyone shot, now next time you go
(14:03):
over this ground site in thesame day light conditions is in
several months. So it was a bitof an art to there's a learning
curve there. And it wasparticularly interesting with
all the photos that I had totake your for your project, very
well described and you know, youlike the way it happens keys you
know, it's gonna happen at thistime you show up to the Cupola.
(14:25):
And then you have a you have apicture of the spot from far
away and then a few photos fromnearer and nearer so you can see
it coming in the horizon as thespacecraft flies over the Earth.
Oh, yes, it's that lake. It'sthat mountain. Okay, it's gonna
be to the left of this youadjust your camera. You zoom in.
Okay, I had the spot. Then youwait for the perfect alignment.
[Mimics camera noise] Take yourphotos. It's okay. I hope the
(14:45):
exposure was okay. I hopeeverything was okay. Because
that was the last time for acouple of months.
Roberta Bondar (14:51):
Yeah, no, it was great. In fact, the ones that
were taken because you went,your flight spanned seasons. It
wasn't it wasn't just oneseason. So that really helped us
to create a story aboutmigration and the fact that
well, there's no food becausethere's snow on the ground. And
we can talk about the ecosystemsthat that, that sleep a little
bit and the timing of themigration, the birds coming
David Saint-Jacques (15:13):
As a as a sailor a quiver for me is a set
back, no, all of that. I when Ilooked at a photograph of the C
pola, and all the lenses in te cameras and you you had a b
autiful phrase that you used oon the conference call that w
had from space and that waa quiver that you were pull
ng things. It was a marvelos, marvelous expression. I gu
(15:33):
ss maybe because I used to cach university archery and [la
ghter] I think about a quiverand having all these lovely, lo
ely arrows and picking the rght one at the right time for th
r of sails.
Roberta Bondar (15:49):
Oh, wow, there you go [laughter]. I like that,
I guess that's why we need aglossary, at the end of all of
this. I won't get into somesidebars of some dual dual
interesting words. Maybe I will.
When I was at Guelph, AI meantartificial insemination, I got
into the space program, it wasartificial intelligence.
[Laughter] There, okay. Let'ssee, when you were before you
(16:14):
flew in space, birds, wereobviously there and you could
hear them and you could seethem. And then in space, you
couldn't see them and youcouldn't hear them, but you're
photographing where they are.
Then after spaceflight, I assumethat you're probably waiting for
spring to see birds again,unless you're fortunate to see a
(16:35):
snowy owl or some gullsomewhere. But can you tell us a
little bit about, about youraffection for birds, and maybe
why they're important to you?
David Saint-Jacques (16:46):
Yeah, I think I mean, any wildlife I
love, I love all wild animals.
And having young children, Ithink, reminds you of the
importance because of course,kids just love animals. And I
think they naturally see that weare on a level with them, you
know that we both belong to theplanet and we both live there.
And actually, during thebeginning of the pandemic, my,
(17:07):
my, my seven year old son toldme, "you know Daddy, animals
don't seem to care about thepandemic. They seem to be okay
with the pandemic, thank god.
""Yeah, you're right, you'reright. They go about their own
stuff, and they really livethere." And birds in particular,
I find them very gracious, Ifind them. And because they fly,
(17:32):
maybe it's something that Ireally secretly, not secretly, I
openly envy their ability to flyand have we not all dreamt of
that as children. And thisreturn of the spring right now,
we're in the depth of winter inMontreal, you know, I can't I
can't wait to hear birds and seethem come back. There's a, going
(17:52):
back to my my life in theArctic, you know, we would
during the, during the summerwould see all these southern
birds, you know, who would becoming to the Arctic. To, to
nest. Giant swans from Florida,for example.
Roberta Bondar (18:09):
There's one species that we're following
that you may you may have seenin the Arctic. That's the kind
of they're in flocks whenthey're down south, but they get
sort of separated up with theirlittle families nests,
especially on South HamptonIsland. But it's the Red Knot,
rufa subspecies that we'refollowing. And they're, they're
such an incredible bird. We, wephotographed them down in the
(18:31):
southern part, the east of theeast coast of United States in
the winter, and they had thisgrayish, this plumage that you'd
never have looked at them twice.
And then they go up to Delawareand feast on these, the
horseshoe crab eggs and theybecome red, and then they fly up
to Mingan National Park. Andthey, and then from there, they
fly up to South Hampton Islandin the in the Arctic, and set
(18:51):
their little nests, I mean, it'sjust, they're incredible
creatures. And we're just very,we're very pleased to be able to
follow some of them and to havepeople like you that has really
you have had a life, lifelongconnection with with the natural
world environment, but throughyour adventures, through your
(19:11):
work through and through to yourfamily now that you're trying to
create new things for them to doand to get exposed to in the
outdoors.
David Saint-Jacques (19:22):
And I think as every child for the first
time, you understand the scopeof bird migration, the distances
that they travel, we like to sayinstinctively but I mean, in
some way they figure it out,they just have a different brain
than ours. It is this some it'svery humbling. It's very
(19:42):
humbling how really the world istheir oyster and how for them,
you know, the their relationshipwith the land, it must be
completely different from ours,because we're kind of ground
based animals. There's a, youknow we had to invent the
airplane to suddenly see ourplanet differently. Otherwise,
(20:05):
we're stuck to what you can seefrom the side of a road. And so
when I had the chance to work asa family physician in the
Arctic, and nature is beautifulthere, of course, and the I
remember and an Inuit Elderexplaining to me that the, you
know, the Earth doesn't belongto us, it's the other way
around. We belong to the Earth.
And, you know, you can have thatwisdom as an Inuit Elder, and
(20:29):
it's completely reinforced whenyou go to space, you realize,
well, all we do here is likethrough incredible efforts of
engineering, recreate the Earthin a little bubble of the Earth
environments. So we that's theonly way we can go to space by
going into a bubble ofEarth-like environments where
the same airs and temperatureseverything so we don't exist
(20:49):
outside the Earth.
Roberta Bondar (20:53):
Parfait, David.
That was just wonderful. Well,listen, all the best to you and
to your family. Take care. Byebye, bye.
It really is a privilege toengage with other minds and
experiences. I would like tothank Dr. David Saint-Jacques
for sharing his unique adventurewith us today. Come back again
in two weeks for the nextSharing Space with Dr. Roberta
(21:15):
Bondar podcast, when my guestwill be singer/songwriter, Buffy
Sainte Marie. Thanks for joiningme.
The celebration of the 30th anniversary of my
historic spaceflight continuesback here on Earth with this
podcast series Sharing Spacewith Dr. Roberta Bondar. Now
this is an opportunity for youto join me while I explore life,
creativity, flexibility andchange with my guests, some of
the most famous and globallywell respected Canadians. In
(00:24):
each of these podcasts, we willhear a special guest express
personal views about the presentand the future. And if you have
a deep passion for explorationand inquiry, whether it's
through the arts, sciences, orathletics for example, the
storytelling in this series isfor those who wander and those
who wonder. Join me now toexplore how some of the most
(00:47):
notable Canadians exercise theircreativity and curiosity in a
wide array of fields. Unlikethose of the night sky, these
stars are within reach. So let'stap into their energy as they
enlighten us.
Today we welcome Dr. DavidSaint-Jacques, engineer,
astrophysicist and a familyphysician with expertise in
(01:08):
delivering remote medical care.
He is best known for his role asa Canadian astronaut aboard the
International Space Station theISS for his 204 day mission
expeditions 58 and 59. BetweenDecember 2018, and June 2019,
the longest space mission byCanadian to date. After
launching on a Soyuz rocket tothe ISS, he performed
(01:30):
experiments in many fields ofscience, a spacewalk, and even
captured a visiting spacecraftwith a Canadian robotic arm. I'm
thrilled that he immersedhimself in the Bondar
Foundation's migratory birdproject. By capturing images of
several avian quarter's from theISS. He was appointed Officer of
the National Order of Quebec,the challenges of COVID moved
(01:53):
Dr. Saint-Jacques to aid hismedical profession with his
hands on support in frontlinehospital care, even as he
continues with the CanadianSpace Agency, let's begin. When
you were in space, I'm sure thatlooking at the Earth while
because it's different, it's adifferent vantage point, that
(02:14):
there was something that thatyou may have felt that you could
describe or could think aboutthat you might be able to share
with us.
David Saint-Jacques (02:23):
Yes, Roberta certainly. I mean,
you've seen it yourself. And I'msure you'll understand the
there's something endearingabout the beauty and fragility
of the Earth. But I what reallystruck me as a [unknown] you
know, we're all used to theseviews. We know that abstractly,
but when you see the Earthfloating in the completely dead
(02:43):
vacuum of space, I, I found thatI can't understand something
about the human condition thathow exposed we are, and this
otherwise unforgivingenvironment. I mean, space is
just dark and black and full ofradiations. Other celestial
bodies, like the moon is just adead rock. The sun is a ball of
(03:04):
fire, other planets arehopelessly inhospitable, and the
Earth is just this incredibleoasis. It's breathing. She's
alive, she's glowing blue. It'sit's just the contrast with its
environment is incredible.
Roberta Bondar (03:21):
Yeah, and it's you put it so eloquently. The
you're right at the sobering thesobering nature of looking
beyond the planet and thenfeasting your eyes on this
warmth incredibly living it'salmost like a living breathing
light that comes back to oureyes I'd say it isn't it is
quite incredible.
David Saint-Jacques (03:40):
The Earth is our only home in the cosmos
and it's not like we have anoption we just have to take to
be good shepherds and take goodcare of her. So it was the sense
of this just very endearingfragility and sense of exposure.
That was kind of surreal it waskind of not scary but you know
it's very sobering to just seethat like there's there's
(04:04):
nowhere else to go and I thoughtof I thought of humanity as a
you know as a mountain climberon on you know climbing this ice
wall with just one rope andsafety. Like don't mess with
your rope. [Laughter]
Roberta Bondar (04:20):
I must say that sometimes when people see
something a Star Trek moviethere was one that showed them
bringing a whale back from spacebecause they're bringing it back
through time and they're goingto be populating it, I keep
telling people there's no whaleup there that we're bringing
back I mean sure there issunlight and stuff coming in but
I don't know fragments of stuffthat's floating around but
(04:41):
there's there's no whale.
[Laughter]
David Saint-Jacques (04:45):
Yeah, I think it kind of highlights it,
enhanced my the sense ofresponsibility I think that we
should all have within you know,our purview to be good shepherds
and do you know try to at leastavoid doing damage to this just
just this miracle, there's justthis miraculous oasis in the
middle of absolutely nowhere. Itis a wow, it's beautiful. But
(05:08):
it's is kind of is it was aweinspiring to see. So that was
the main, the dominatingfeeling. And then, of course, a
sense of wonder at, you know,the richness of biodiversity on
our planet. How, how comethere's life and how incredibly
(05:32):
complex it is, and varied andresilient is just, you know,
whenever I had a second, I wouldgo to the window, and watch look
at the Earth, because it waslike a miracle. And then, you
know, it's funny now, I'm herein my office, and I look outside
the window, and it's the sameplanet I'm looking at. Right?
It's the same earth. It's justanother perspective. So I tried
(05:55):
to keep that little bit of awonder, I think I brought back
some wonder from space.
Roberta Bondar (06:02):
What about what about when you were doing your
EVA? Or your spacewalk? How didyou manage with that? I mean,
you know, it had to takepictures, and you saw the Earth
again? And could you tell us,
David Saint-Jacques (06:13):
It was so interesting? Yeah. Cuz I had to,
by the time just by the virtueof scheduling, by the time I did
an an EVA I had already been inspace station for over three
months. So I was very used tomicrogravity environment, the
view of the Earth, you know,looking at it from the Cupola.
But I, I wonder everything isdifferent when you're outside, I
(06:34):
just couldn't imagine why is itso different, you know, I would
practice floating in the Cupolaand not touching anything and
with my eyes next to the window.
[Laughter] And maybe that'swhat's going to be like, and
then when I, when I finally gota chance to go out, you get very
busy. So it was just very busy.
And every so often, you know,I'll glance back at the Earth.
And then I got very lucky,because at some point, I had a
(06:57):
piece of hardware to installsomewhere. And it didn't fit. So
I made this Call to MissionControl. Oh, sorry, Houston,
just don't think this is gonnafit. And then a few questions
back and forth. And then herecome this call, you know, "Okay,
stand by". And of course, that'sa gift when you're on a
spacewalk. And so I had like10-15 minutes to myself, at
(07:21):
least that's what it felt like,just looking at the Earth, it
was during the day, and and Ihad this vision as I was hearing
Mission Control, all you hear isone voice of someone, a friend
of yours and mission control,and the another friend of yours
outside. So I had Jeanette andAnne the only two human beings
around. And I felt this greatkind of kinship with humanity.
(07:43):
Funnily enough, I thought, lookat the planet. How big is a
human? Wow, a human, this tiny,I can't even see them right at
this from this scale. But I feltthe presence if you want the
collective presence of 1000s ofpeople over decades, who had
scratched their heads, sweattheir brains to invent this
(08:03):
space station, this space suit,make this possible for me to
just be there, young, freefloating around in space,
looking at the Earth. And I feltthese people you know that
they'll never, they've neverbeen here, they just saw the,
through their imagination. So Ifelt like it was this scale
representative of humanimagination of the incredible
(08:24):
reach of the human mind. So Ididn't feel like I was a tiny
little satellite of the Earth, Ifelt like I was big, I was part
of something huge, the human,the reach of the human mind.
And, you know, as on one hand,you look at the Earth, and it's
sobering, how fragile it is andhow big the problems are that
we're facing, be themecological, political, social,
(08:46):
medical these days. At the sametime, I was reassured, wow we
can do this. There's just nolimits to the power of the human
imagination, internationalteamwork, when we decide to put
our differences aside and worktowards a common goal. Look at
this. It's incredible. We arekeeping human beings in a
completely alien environmentable to look down look upon at
(09:09):
ourselves. So I really felt likea connection to a connection to
home, very strong connection tohome. Isn't it funny? It's like
when you travel, the furtheraway you travel, the stronger
the bond with your own countryis kind of this. I have to leave
Earth to really feel like anEarthling. Finally.
Roberta Bondar (09:28):
Yes, it's a good way of speaking about it. It the
detachment of the planet. It'samazing sometimes how much then
you look forward to things afterso you want to bond more closely
with something and I rememberwhen I came back, it was it was
birdsong. It was sounds ofwater. It was things that I
(09:50):
missed that I knew were on theplanet, but it was so silent,
[laughter] looking at andthinking. There's a lot of stuff
down there and I think abouthuman behaviors and how much
more we can be doing with ourcreativity and our imagination,
the kinds of things, butsometimes I know the way we
treat each other, certainlypolitically, and personally,
(10:10):
sometimes when I see these newstories come in, it's a bit a
bit disconcerting. But then yousee a good news story. And I
feel like, you know, right away,well, hey, you're not, we're not
an all bad species here. Butcertainly human behavior, when
we're in space, if you thinkabout what's going on on the
planet, I think there's no needfor bad stuff we should all get
(10:32):
together and, and solve some ofthe greater problems. Yeah, for
sure.
David Saint-Jacques (10:37):
It is understandable, these are all
struggles and problems that theycome from limited resources, you
know, and from, and from notknowing each other that well,
just the vast distances on thehuman scale, I think we can
solve, we can solve all this Ido I really came back from space
with on one hand, a verysobering understanding of the
(11:00):
magnitude of the challenges. Andon the other hand, just a great
optimism as a father, as acitizen, we can do this, we can
do this, we can, we can fix allof these problems, we just got a
just got to kind of put ourminds to it. And as a, it's one
of my professional sources ofpride to be part of this great
(11:22):
endeavor that demonstratespractically on a daily basis
that we can work together inspace, countries like the US or
Russia, Germany, Japan, Canada,that not so long ago, were at
war with each other, worktogether in space to do
incredible things. And have beendoing doing so for decades. And
(11:43):
just, you know, it gives me itgives me hope to really, really
gives no, it's not easy, butit's like a concrete
demonstration that we can do it.
So of course, we do it everyday.
Roberta Bondar (11:53):
And you were speaking about being a father,
could you just help us in termsof understanding the importance
of photography to your life,like before flight, and in
flight, and now in terms ofhaving as a tool for
communicating things and, andsharing?
David Saint-Jacques (12:12):
Yeah, my, my relationship with photography
started as a teenager, it wasmore for art, I had a even had
a, you know, a black room in myhouse at some point where I
developed my own black and whitefilm. And I liked to take photos
of nature, buildingsarchitecture. And then I don't
know, at some point, I realized,I really care more about people
(12:32):
than about objects. And thereare books full of really, really
nice photos of mountains andbuildings taken by
professionals. So for decades, Ijust took photos of my friends,
again, yeah. And then, and thenbecame a father. And then of
course, like all parents, thenall I take is kid photos of my
kids, and 1000s of them, moviesand photos. But so going back to
(12:57):
space, going to space was like acircling back to this just
interest in the aesthetics ofphotos, we get quite a lot of
training at the Johnson SpaceCenter before spaceflight,
because it's, you know, there'sscientific experiments we do on
board and this on the spacewalkusing Canadarm. All that. But
taking good photos is a bigthing that we bring back to
(13:19):
earth as these nice photos ofthe planet and I, I always
wanted the photos to be usefuland see something interesting,
but also to be beautiful. Theframing, the lighting, have a
bit of a curve of the Earth, alittle bit of the atmosphere
too. So that doesn't look like aGoogle Earth photo. It looks
like a photo taken from aspacecraft. And so I was and
it's an art that's handed overfrom crew member to crew member,
(13:42):
it's one of the things that thesenior crew on board space
station hands you down thesetricks, because we have pretty
high quality photographicequipment. But as you know, the
better the equipment, the moremanual it is, you don't want to
rely on the automated setting.
So you gotta know what you'redoing. And it's you're moving
around the Earth, it's movingfast. It's like taking photos of
a bird I suppose. There's onlyone shot, now next time you go
(14:03):
over this ground site in thesame day light conditions is in
several months. So it was a bitof an art to there's a learning
curve there. And it wasparticularly interesting with
all the photos that I had totake your for your project, very
well described and you know, youlike the way it happens keys you
know, it's gonna happen at thistime you show up to the Cupola.
(14:25):
And then you have a you have apicture of the spot from far
away and then a few photos fromnearer and nearer so you can see
it coming in the horizon as thespacecraft flies over the Earth.
Oh, yes, it's that lake. It'sthat mountain. Okay, it's gonna
be to the left of this youadjust your camera. You zoom in.
Okay, I had the spot. Then youwait for the perfect alignment.
[Mimics camera noise] Take yourphotos. It's okay. I hope the
(14:45):
exposure was okay. I hopeeverything was okay. Because
that was the last time for acouple of months.
Roberta Bondar (14:51):
Yeah, no, it was great. In fact, the ones that
were taken because you went,your flight spanned seasons. It
wasn't it wasn't just oneseason. So that really helped us
to create a story aboutmigration and the fact that
well, there's no food becausethere's snow on the ground. And
we can talk about the ecosystemsthat that, that sleep a little
bit and the timing of themigration, the birds coming
David Saint-Jacques (15:13):
As a as a sailor a quiver for me is a set
back, no, all of that. I when Ilooked at a photograph of the C
pola, and all the lenses in te cameras and you you had a b
autiful phrase that you used oon the conference call that w
had from space and that waa quiver that you were pull
ng things. It was a marvelos, marvelous expression. I gu
(15:33):
ss maybe because I used to cach university archery and [la
ghter] I think about a quiverand having all these lovely, lo
ely arrows and picking the rght one at the right time for th
r of sails.
Roberta Bondar (15:49):
Oh, wow, there you go [laughter]. I like that,
I guess that's why we need aglossary, at the end of all of
this. I won't get into somesidebars of some dual dual
interesting words. Maybe I will.
When I was at Guelph, AI meantartificial insemination, I got
into the space program, it wasartificial intelligence.
[Laughter] There, okay. Let'ssee, when you were before you
(16:14):
flew in space, birds, wereobviously there and you could
hear them and you could seethem. And then in space, you
couldn't see them and youcouldn't hear them, but you're
photographing where they are.
Then after spaceflight, I assumethat you're probably waiting for
spring to see birds again,unless you're fortunate to see a
(16:35):
snowy owl or some gullsomewhere. But can you tell us a
little bit about, about youraffection for birds, and maybe
why they're important to you?
David Saint-Jacques (16:46):
Yeah, I think I mean, any wildlife I
love, I love all wild animals.
And having young children, Ithink, reminds you of the
importance because of course,kids just love animals. And I
think they naturally see that weare on a level with them, you
know that we both belong to theplanet and we both live there.
And actually, during thebeginning of the pandemic, my,
(17:07):
my, my seven year old son toldme, "you know Daddy, animals
don't seem to care about thepandemic. They seem to be okay
with the pandemic, thank god.
""Yeah, you're right, you'reright. They go about their own
stuff, and they really livethere." And birds in particular,
I find them very gracious, Ifind them. And because they fly,
(17:32):
maybe it's something that Ireally secretly, not secretly, I
openly envy their ability to flyand have we not all dreamt of
that as children. And thisreturn of the spring right now,
we're in the depth of winter inMontreal, you know, I can't I
can't wait to hear birds and seethem come back. There's a, going
(17:52):
back to my my life in theArctic, you know, we would
during the, during the summerwould see all these southern
birds, you know, who would becoming to the Arctic. To, to
nest. Giant swans from Florida,for example.
Roberta Bondar (18:09):
There's one species that we're following
that you may you may have seenin the Arctic. That's the kind
of they're in flocks whenthey're down south, but they get
sort of separated up with theirlittle families nests,
especially on South HamptonIsland. But it's the Red Knot,
rufa subspecies that we'refollowing. And they're, they're
such an incredible bird. We, wephotographed them down in the
(18:31):
southern part, the east of theeast coast of United States in
the winter, and they had thisgrayish, this plumage that you'd
never have looked at them twice.
And then they go up to Delawareand feast on these, the
horseshoe crab eggs and theybecome red, and then they fly up
to Mingan National Park. Andthey, and then from there, they
fly up to South Hampton Islandin the in the Arctic, and set
(18:51):
their little nests, I mean, it'sjust, they're incredible
creatures. And we're just very,we're very pleased to be able to
follow some of them and to havepeople like you that has really
you have had a life, lifelongconnection with with the natural
world environment, but throughyour adventures, through your
(19:11):
work through and through to yourfamily now that you're trying to
create new things for them to doand to get exposed to in the
outdoors.
David Saint-Jacques (19:22):
And I think as every child for the first
time, you understand the scopeof bird migration, the distances
that they travel, we like to sayinstinctively but I mean, in
some way they figure it out,they just have a different brain
than ours. It is this some it'svery humbling. It's very
(19:42):
humbling how really the world istheir oyster and how for them,
you know, the their relationshipwith the land, it must be
completely different from ours,because we're kind of ground
based animals. There's a, youknow we had to invent the
airplane to suddenly see ourplanet differently. Otherwise,
(20:05):
we're stuck to what you can seefrom the side of a road. And so
when I had the chance to work asa family physician in the
Arctic, and nature is beautifulthere, of course, and the I
remember and an Inuit Elderexplaining to me that the, you
know, the Earth doesn't belongto us, it's the other way
around. We belong to the Earth.
And, you know, you can have thatwisdom as an Inuit Elder, and
(20:29):
it's completely reinforced whenyou go to space, you realize,
well, all we do here is likethrough incredible efforts of
engineering, recreate the Earthin a little bubble of the Earth
environments. So we that's theonly way we can go to space by
going into a bubble ofEarth-like environments where
the same airs and temperatureseverything so we don't exist
(20:49):
outside the Earth.
Roberta Bondar (20:53):
Parfait, David.
That was just wonderful. Well,listen, all the best to you and
to your family. Take care. Byebye, bye.
It really is a privilege toengage with other minds and
experiences. I would like tothank Dr. David Saint-Jacques
for sharing his unique adventurewith us today. Come back again
in two weeks for the nextSharing Space with Dr. Roberta
(21:15):
Bondar podcast, when my guestwill be singer/songwriter, Buffy
Sainte Marie. Thanks for joiningme.
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