January 19, 2022 • 44 mins
Singer/songwriter and healer Susan Aglukark talks to Dr. Bondar about harnessing the way her brain works through the creative process, destigmatizing mental health, climate change in the Arctic, and reconciliation.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Roberta Bondar (00:02):
The celebration of the 30th anniversary of my
historic spaceflight continuesback here on earth with this
podcast series Sharing Spacewith Dr. Roberta Bondar. Now
this is an opportunity for youto join me while I explore life,
creativity, flexibility andchange with my guests, some of
the most famous and globallywell respected Canadians. In
(00:24):
each of these podcasts, we willhear a special guest express
personal views about the presentand the future. And if you have
a deep passion for explorationand inquiry, whether it's
through the arts, sciences, orathletics for example, the
storytelling in this series isfor those who wander and those
who wonder. Join me now toexplore how some of the most
(00:47):
notable Canadians exercise theircreativity and curiosity in a
wide array of fields. Unlikethose of the night sky, these
stars are within reach. So let'stap into their energy as they
enlightened us. Depth of thoughtwith technical precision that is
layered over a calmnesstranscending a single culture
(01:08):
describes the songwriting andsinging of our Susan Aglukark.
Arctic Rose was the beginning, amasterful album drawn from her
life of uncertainty, andreleased the year that I flew in
space in 1992. More albums havefollowed right up to the present
day. Susan does not shy awayfrom difficult societal issues,
having experienced dark days inher own past. A multiple Juno
(01:31):
Award winner, and recipient ofthe Governor General's lifetime
Artistic Achievement Award. Shewrites and sings with themes of
hope, inspiration andencouragement, and infuses our
lives through the expression oflove and connection to Inuit
culture and tradition. AnOfficer of the Order of Canada,
Susan Aglukark reaches out toyouth in the North, addressing
(01:52):
complex health crises of foodsecurity and supply and suicide,
while promoting the environmentand education. She believes and
encourages calmness and healingas approaches to improving one's
mental health. Her laugh andsmile are infectious, and she
has much to teach us. Let'sbegin. Hey, Susan, welcome to
(02:13):
the podcast Sharing Space. And Ithink it's just fantastic you're
able to join us today. And, andI haven't seen you for a few
years now, what have you been upto in the interim?
Susan Aglukark (02:23):
Well, during the pandemic year, I've been using
the time to sink my teeth intothe things we've put on the back
burner. So I've done somewriting, I've done a lot of art,
a lot of painting, which is mykind of free time hobby. So I've
spent a lot of time on that. Butalso, it's given me some time to
(02:44):
really have real focus time onmy own charity. So we've spent
the last year and a half, justfinishing up a few things that
we needed to finish up with thatwork. So and it's all connected,
all the work I'm doing isconnected. So it's been it's
been good time with thepandemic. Leading up to that we
were working on a new album,which we've of course, finished,
(03:06):
and it's ready to go and startedthe next one. So yeah, we've
been using our time.
Roberta Bondar (03:11):
What's the name of your new album?
Susan Aglukark (03:14):
So the new one, new one, that's the one that's
been done for a while, is calledThe Crossing. And that one
slated to release January, earlyFebruary. And then the second
one, I'm simply calling [word inInuktitut], which is
Collaborations because it's thisyear's been an interesting year
of people reaching out to, to,to do some collaborations, and
(03:35):
I've never done that, so this iskind of a new area for me.
Roberta Bondar (03:38):
That's it's impressive. I mean, your, your
command of the art sphere is soimpressive how you've been
folding different types of artinto your life to communicate
certain ideas and feelings. Andbefore I get into some of your
paintings, I'm really fascinatedby that. Could you tell us a
little bit about your charityand the kinds of things that
(03:59):
you've been doing? I understanda little bit about it, because
we've been we've been in touchabout food in the North. But
could you give us a, some broadstrokes about it, or maybe give
us some examples of the kinds ofthings that you feel are
important that you've beenworking on?
Susan Aglukark (04:13):
Yep. So our work with the Arctic Rose Foundation,
essentially, is exploring waysthat we can create better and
accessible basic mental healthsupports. One of the one of the
ways that I launched this, thisidea and in our first project we
(04:34):
call the Messy Book Project, ishow I came to understand the
basics of my own career andbelonging to it. A lot of the
early years of my career werevery scary because there's a lot
of pieces I didn't have, which Ilearned later are basic things
that we should all have equalaccess to. And I didn't and very
(04:58):
fortunate that I ended up withreally great friends and really
great moments of meetingwonderful people, a lot of
little snippets of things Ilearned from those connections
and how they changed.
Fundamentally, my perception ofthe industry and my role in the
industry, the potential careerin the broader industry piece.
And so there's a, there's athing that I took away from that
(05:21):
experience, and it's called[word in Inuktitut] is the root
word for Fear, Emotional Fear.
And so when I came to understandthis fear, it became one of the
major turning points in myrelationship with myself as a
writer, songwriter, artist,myself on stage all of these
things. So I take that basicconcept now and apply it into
(05:45):
the development of all thedifferent parts of our Messy
Book Program of our work in theArctic Rose Foundation. So
essentially, what we do is inthe Messy Book Program, we
explore expressive arts therapy.
And we're introducing, forexample, emotional intelligence
disconnects, and how do wereconnect them in in in their
(06:05):
children and in theirrelationship with themselves in
their learning, or education,for example, or their
relationships with theirfriends, all these things. So
that's the Messy Book Program,where it's expanded to, is to
run the Messy Book Program,we've had to explore and create
capacity locally. And that meanswe partnered and hired high
(06:28):
school students, we've trainedthem to run the, the Messy Book
Program, which is an every dayafter school program. And so in
the training of these highschool students is in and of
itself, a basic mental healthsupport. So all these things are
turning into these other reallygreat exciting side projects and
explorations. And so that's,that's happening also. So it's,
(06:50):
um, yeah, and it's reallystemming from I knew several
years into my career, I want tobe a singer, I want to be an
artist, I want to do this, thisis what my heart's calling is,
and how lucky am I that allthese early opportunities have
brought me to this, this placeof knowing and then sharing what
(07:11):
I've learned from from, fromthat experience, and turning it
into this, these programs in theArctic Rose Foundation.
Roberta Bondar (07:20):
Wow, that is impressive. I mean, there's so
many bits and pieces of that,that we could delve into. But I
do want to talk about thevarious things that come out of
having an idea that one worksforward, because one has this
frame of reference that youstart with, and then gradually
things come in that actuallymake it a larger principle that
(07:43):
to work on. And then it has allthis way of, of going to areas
that that one wouldn't havethought about. Now, for example,
when when you talked aboutpainting, what kinds of things
are in your head while you'repainting? Is it a, like is it a
cleansing time for you? Or is ita time when when you when you
focus on things that you've beenthinking about?
Susan Aglukark (08:05):
So what I learned in the early years is I
have a frantic brain, as I'msure you figured out by now.
[Laughter} And it doesn't resteasy. And there was a time when
I thought that there wassomething wrong with me because
I can't rest my brain. And thenabout about 10 years ago, I came
(08:26):
to look at it from from adifferent place to to attack it,
if you will, from a differentplace and and harness it what
why is your brain like that? Andwhy don't you just figure out
how to use that energy. So Istarted the painting. And what
I've discovered in researchingthe different artists and
(08:46):
painters is we're not all thesame, thank God. And so I landed
on abstract painting. And I loveI love everything I've learned
about abstract painting, becauseeven my painting is frenetic.
And in the process ofdiscovering the different types
of painting is my quiet place. Ifound that the more I explored
(09:13):
abstract painting, for example,and it starts off very frenetic.
And then I realized that thenyou add another layer and you
start finding a picture inthere, that my life is very much
like that. And that's whyabstract painting appeals to me
so when I look at the way thatI'm painting, I don't I don't I
(09:34):
don't approach it anymore inthat I'm looking for the calm
place. I'm just getting therejust get in there and and put it
all out there and then you'llslowly peel back the layers and
you'll find the thing you'relooking for in that in that
process. So I you know there wasa time when I and I still do to
a smaller degree, certainly notwhen I the way I used to even in
(09:57):
the approach of songwriting justbecause English is a second
language, for example, I wouldjust practically write, write,
write, write, then I would go tomy, my producer/collaborators
and say does this makes sense,does this, can I put these two
English words together, or dothey work. Versus now and I
realize, in I'm collaborating onanother song and another project
(10:20):
right now. And even in thoseconversations, I realized this
other writer whom is anincredible writer, is the same
as I am in terms of I just putit all out there, and then we'll
just, we'll just clean it up. SoI've learned all my approaches,
in all the work, I do have thatone thread, I am fanatic, and
(10:42):
that's okay. And you'll find acalm place in the process of
finding and peeling back thoselayers. And I, I've learned to
do that with my painting. Andit's really just, it's, it's
really just finding that thatcalm place in all the
frenetic-ness of our world. Andthat's what I've learned to do
with my painting.
Roberta Bondar (11:02):
And with that, in that calm place, when, when
you're painting, do youconsciously, or is there a
conscious or subconscioussinging in your head of music,
or humming? Or bringing thatkind of energy that are in some
of your pieces into into the artdo you find? Do you find your
(11:24):
brushstrokes are different whenyou do that? Maybe you could,
could you just talk a little bitabout because I it's
fascinating.
Susan Aglukark (11:30):
Yes, and no, sometimes I will put music on.
And I'll just sit in the space.
And, and not that I let themusic guide me but I, I let the
music create the tone of theroom. And depending on I guess
where I am that day, personally,then then that will, that tone
(11:55):
of the room or myself will guidethe painting. But it's it you
know, more often than not, whatI do is when I know I have a
project deadline, I will use themorning to either paint or
(12:15):
create a space get the spaceready. So there's two things I
do, I'll either go and finish apainting I've started and that
clears up my mind to go to mydeadline. So it could be a
writing deadline. Or becausepainting has become my
incentive, what I'll do is I'llprep the room and get a canvas
(12:39):
ready or get a project ready,set it aside and say you don't
touch that until you've met thatdeadline. [Laughter] It's become
my starter or the place that Ifinish and it sets it sets the
space up in my mind to go backto the. And it clears the mind.
(12:59):
So pieces fall into place onthis deadline, while I'm
painting.
Roberta Bondar (13:07):
I find it interesting that I, when people
have asked me with thephotography I'm doing, well
have you ever thought aboutpainting. Well there was a point
many, many years ago where I dida painting of the cottage
because I knew my parents alwayswanted to have a normal painting
of the cottage. I must say I wasvery, not very good at it.
[Laughter] But at least Ienjoyed being out of out of
(13:29):
doors and I enjoyed looking atthings and trying to look at
shapes and colors and all that.
That adds to an, the abstractview that that we have. And I
sometimes think about whenpeople use the term mental
health sometimes use it in avery negative term. But mental
health means our health, interms of how we view things
(13:50):
emotionally and express things.
I look at any form of art, maybenot so much science, I could
speak from that that field withsome knowledge. But I think with
art, it does provide us a way ofbreathing, a way of trying to
connect some of the pieces asyou say, the calm space to try
(14:13):
to pull us together. It leads meto go back to what you were
speaking to earlier about mentalhealth and some of the things
with the Messy Book Program.
Whether there are these pathesthat that you see that move off
that that some of the people whowere involved some especially
some of the young people, maybeeven not so young people I find
there are people, every agegroup I speak to certainly from
(14:36):
my medical standpoint and lookat how people cope with COVID
that there are new things thatthey're finding or needing that
someone needs to actually showthem that it's okay to do these
things. It sounds to me like theMessy Book Project is a way of
opening people to differentavenues they may not have
approached before.
Susan Aglukark (14:58):
Absolutely and you you know what I've learned
to do in our approach. I wasjust recently in Rankin Inlet.
And when I came back home, I, Ileft there understanding that we
always have to be open goinginto our work. Right now, the
(15:20):
Messy book Program is beingprimarily utilized by middle
school aged children and earlyteen youth. And so I go in
there, and I realized that evenin the way that we use our
language, facilitating languagehas to be very intentional. So
when when we say mental health,the stigma around mental health
(15:43):
is that oh, no, they think weneed we have where we have
problems, and we need help withthose mental health problems.
And so my takeaway from thislast trip, for example, was
well, we have to do work indestigmatizing mental health,
normalizing our approach in howwe create relationships, and
(16:04):
supports around mental health.
My, my health, for example, andI use my story as an example so
that they don't, participants orworkers don't feel like they
need therapy, as we know,therapy. So when I tell my
story, I talked about the thefranticness of my brain, and
that some of us are just builtthat way. And that's not a bad
(16:24):
thing. But Messy Book offersbasic tools to calm the frantic
brain. So you don't necessarilyhave, if you have levels of
mental health needs, and they'reone to 10 and 10 being the
worst, you may be a one or atwo, I was certainly one or two
for a time, I was five for atime, I was eight for a time.
(16:47):
And then I came back down tolevel five or two or one, and
that that's mental healthsupport. But the point being,
that we have to destigmatizemental health, especially in our
Indigenous communities, andnormalize it, because in that
language is how they receive it.
(17:08):
And they realize, okay, this isnormal, I what I'm going through
is not a bad thing. It's anormal phase, or a normal stage
in my life. And this, these arethe tools that will help me cope
with my mental health, dailychallenges, whatever they are.
So that was my takeaway fromRankin and that specific
(17:31):
demographic, that age group, andagain, the approach is going to
be different for grade 12students, and we're going to
have a different approach foryoung adults, because they are
asking for support. And it'sgoing to be different by how we
collect that information. Andhow we create programs from the
information we're collectingthrough observation is very
(17:53):
important. And it's differentfor Indigenous groups.
Roberta Bondar (17:56):
And with Indigenous languages, are there
traditionally ways ofapproaching this kind of issue
in terms of mental health, isthat something that that you can
share with us that that has someIndigenous words or basis.
Susan Aglukark (18:13):
In the Inuit community, being Inuk, there are
traditional Inuit ways ofsupporting people who needed
that extra support. There is achallenge in terms of and we're
learning this, what's excitingabout what we're creating, in
our relationships with thefoundation, there are challenges
(18:37):
in abstract thinking andabstract approaches versus
literal, we take things veryliterally. So what we're
learning and in our learningteaching is in our relationships
in in, say, the Messy BookProgram and expressive arts
therapy, a lot of the work isabstract work. It's abstract
thinking, it's, it's being inthis space, not necessarily so
(19:01):
that you walk away with a tool,but that in the moment that
you're there, it's okay, ifsomething happens, it's okay if
nothing happens, it's okay ifsomething connects or
disconnects. So we're learningto have those relationships with
them teaching them how to walkaway with okay, being okay not
walking away with something.
Abstract relationships versusliteral, if they come to the
(19:25):
room and they need therapy, theythink they're going to get a
professional in that room that'sgoing to therapize them, I mean,
doesn't have to be that way atall. So we're learning this but
teaching it as well in thesespaces. So it's, it's an
interesting place to be, thereisn't language per se, it's
there. It's being developed,now, as we are experiencing it.
(19:45):
As we are creating thoserelationships. The language is
being developed. Buttraditionally groups of Inuit
families, camps beforesettlement's, would know if
somebody needed a little extrasupport, they would they would
offer that extra support. Wasthat a mental health situation?
(20:09):
We don't know? Possibly, mostlikely it was. And they
understood that that person justneeded some extra support. And
let's figure out how to supportthem within the means that they
had at that in that time. So itwas understood. And then they
did their they did what theycould to create that support.
But that's that's changing nowthat I think what's what's been
(20:34):
a challenge is that the need tocreate those supports has grown
exponentially and very fast thatwe're not keeping up with
creating those supports and thelanguage around it. But that's
happening now.
Roberta Bondar (20:51):
Climate change, could you speak a little bit
about maybe the influence thatclimate change has on the
doesn't have to be traditionallife in the North, but just life
in the North, just living on onsome of these pressures that
that that people have. I mean,I, I know myself, if a situation
(21:12):
changes around the physically,one has to be able to to cope
with that somehow. But if it'son a mass scale, like a warming
climate, it seems to me that itreally can precipitate a very
great and very fast increase insome of these needs.
Susan Aglukark (21:31):
Right now, watching what's being documented
on Facebook, for example, I haveaccess to family in two parts of
Nunavut. So the Baffin regionand the Qikiqtaaluk region. And
lots of friends in the westernArctic as well. We know that we
are a month to a month and ahalf behind, in in our seasonal
(21:55):
change. So where we should befeeling well, the ice apparently
in one of our lakes, forexample, is just now about two
to three, three inches thick.
That should have been the case amonth and a half or two months
ago, in this one community. Whatthat means is the effect of that
changes the the timing of when ahunter can go hunting, the
(22:20):
migration of the caribou, of thefish, everything that Inuit have
and need as as sustenance forfeeding families, very basic
needs. So they don't know what'swhat's safe right now as hunters
to go hunting and whattraditionally would have been a
(22:42):
hunting space. Is it safe? Soeverybody is hyper aware that
changing. And is it safe? Whenis it safe? The other challenge
right now is because of thisdelay in the season, in this
part of the season, it delaysthe rest of the seasons as well.
So come winter, like December,January when a hunter would go
(23:05):
hunting at that time, becausethere are times of the year when
it's safe to hunt the caribou,for example, there are times
when it's not. Does that change?
And how does that change? So youknow that the climate change has
definitely affected the Northerncommunities. And we're talking
(23:28):
about communities that arealready challenged in terms of
basic supports for housing andfood insecurity issues. They
need the hunter to go hunting,to supplement that food
insecurity. And now that'schallenged. So it's you know, it
has these these triple effectsall along the hunting season,
(23:51):
the rest of the year, theplanning for their year. So
there's, there's all theseeffects right now that everybody
is looking at, because theseason is a month and a half
late, that that's a real realityup there right now.
Roberta Bondar (24:03):
I think certainly down here in southern
Ontario when I speak to some ofmy friends, they talk about
climate change in the North. Theone thing that people are
talking a lot about is the waterissue in Iqaluit and the kinds
of problems that permafrostmelting and things leaching back
(24:24):
out of the ground water has beenfrozen, the devastating effects
that it can have on a community,it's I think there are things
that we're going to find in theyears down the road that we wish
in this year that we had ananswer to so wouldn't happen as
badly that that somehowtechnology, it's not the savior,
but if there's some way that wecould empower ourselves with a
(24:49):
little bit more technology,whether it's trying to assess
water quality or assess thedelivery of water. I mean I look
at all the water bottles thatwere being delivered to Iqaluit,
all the plastic water bottlesand think there's got to be a
better way. And certainly a lotof other communities that have
not had had safe water. It'sjust the just the things about
(25:11):
daily living that we take forgranted. When we're in a place,
we're surrounded by technologyand supposedly safe water here.
I think the average Canadianprobably just feels that that's
everywhere. And I think one ofthe things that we've been faced
with is this reality that no,it's not like that everywhere.
But it seems a shame that it hasto take something very, very
(25:34):
bad, to bring it to people'sattention to try to, to grapple
with it. Whereas you come from amindset and a place where you've
seen it, and you you feel it andyou experience it, and you're
trying to, to help with thesequela of it in the communities
just in terms of people feelingsomewhat about themselves and
(25:57):
their place in life and whatthey what they can do with their
lives, that is not going to beshortened because they drink
some water that's toxicchemicals in that normally
wouldn't be there. I think allof that. I just, I just feel
that a lot of us would like todo more than we're doing. Can
you help us think about. I'm notseparating people in the North,
(26:23):
from people in the South. We'reall Canadians, as we know,
politically right now in thecountry, that where we all are
trying to help each other. Butare there things that you could
share with us that you feelwould be important things that
that that we could all do to tohelp Canadians who are having
some issues?
Susan Aglukark (26:44):
You know, all the all of the places that we'd
go to reactively are, you know,we need we need to keep
advocating. And so that means wewrite letters to our elected
officials, I think of Dr. CindyBlackstock, who successfully
(27:06):
managed to get Jordan'sPrinciple, which has been a
great funding source for theArctic Rose Foundation. Why
don't we look at more of thatkind of and that level of
advocating at the federal level?
Why don't we spend more time thework that we do Aglukark
Entertainment does, in our, inour presentations, an area of
(27:29):
focus for us is calledcorrecting the narrative. And at
the core of that conversation iswhen we say and we have these
these ongoing conversationssurround reconciliation, and
this is a word bandied out somuch, and we're all kind of
like, what does that reallymean? So for me, what that means
(27:50):
is, I come back to the word[word in Inuktitut], which is
the root word for to [word inInuktitut], to be emotionally
afraid, to be in the grips ofthis emotional fear that I spent
all my early years deferring tothe ones who know more or
better, which were always thewhite people the [word in
(28:12):
Inuktitut] and not used in, inever, in a in a derogatory way.
But that was our reality. And soin the grips of emotional fear,
we just defer to the ones whoknow more, that doesn't mean
that they knew better. So theywere making, you know, they were
making these decisions on behalfof our grandparents, for
example, that in the long run,were detrimental to, to their
(28:34):
mental health or the way thatthey live in their community or
the habits we've developed inour community. So back to your
comment about plastics. Iremember really, really clearly
I was 12 or 13 years old inArviat, walking home from
school. And there was an elderwoman, Mrs. Anuit, who lived on
the same block we lived on. Sothere are six houses on this
(28:59):
road. They had the first housewe had the last house and she
was walking home from the store.
So I grabbed one of her shoppingbags, and we were walking
together and she just simply andmatter of factly out of the blue
says in Inuktitut "I don't knowwhat the Earth is going to do
with this plastic." This is 40years ago, you know that our
(29:20):
seniors and our elders knew thatwhat we were introducing into
our lands was not good for ourland. And so why didn't we
listen to them? 40 years ago.
What should we have donedifferently 40 years ago? I
think we are in the grips of asystem that was introduced to us
early early on, and we don'tknow how to reverse this. So
(29:41):
advocating has to be donemeaningfully, effectively and
constantly that we have to beaggressively, constantly
challenging our elected leaders.
Not forget not let it go on thewayside. Have we done that? Of
course I feel like we have. Arewe, when we look at the
(30:02):
situation in Iqaluit, and we'rewaiting, waiting, waiting for
what happened? How did it cometo that? What systems weren't in
place, knowing what we know,even in the last 10 years, we've
known enough to know that thereshould have been systems in
place to protect the Arcticwaters and the people from this
(30:25):
and yet here we are in 2021. InCanada, with an Arctic community
on on, you can't even boil yourwater advisory, you can't even
don't use it, don't shower,don't drink it, don't cook with
it. In this day and age, what?
What fell through in thoseinternal systems that it came to
that point. And then now, thatcommunity again dependent on the
(30:51):
hunter and the fisher, theyprobably can't safely hunt or
fish next spring and summer,even now, probably because the
the the caribou or the fish orthe fowl that they would have
hunt, the geese that thewhatever they're hunting, the
ptarmigan has been eating andfeeding contaminated land and
(31:13):
water. And so now they probablycan't even hunt next year. So
what systems are in place tosupplement that? It's just
scary. It's just scary wherewe're going with all of this.
And all I can say is that wehave to just keep advocating,
and educating, getting our ouryouth in these positions to be
(31:36):
in the positions of leadership,so that we're more better
informed by us, for us in thework that has to happen and
change in our communities. Ihope that answers your
questions. But those are theimmediate reactions.
Roberta Bondar (31:54):
No, it's I remember years ago, I I just get
got so upset when I'd see a popcan thrown someone just throw
the pop can out. And I rememberfollowing, I would never do
this, again, given the currentclimate but about, I don't know,
seven years ago, I was followingthis man, he threw his coke can
out of the out of the window ofhis car, I followed this guy.
(32:17):
And he went, he went off into a,he knew I was following him, and
he was driving this reallyexpensive car and I would drive
my little beat up, Toyota. And Idrove right behind him. I picked
the tin, I picked the can up.
And I drove right behind him andhe pretended to go into this
driveway I pulled right inbehind. [Laughter] I said
"Excuse me, I think you droppedsomething." He says, "Oh, yes,
yes thank you," then I backedaway. And I. But I mean, I
(32:39):
wouldn't do that now because younever know what people are going
to do to you. But the idea thatthat a tree could recycle a pop
can to me was ludicrous. And I'dsee all this junk in the in the
woods. And I used to get upsetwhen back at one of the
universities I was involvedwith, they had me do part of a
(33:00):
celebrity run. And there'snothing to me worse than to run
around a track trying to getmoney from people. I mean, do
something, running around totrack what what what, you know.
Go clean up a river, you coulddo something in the environment.
And you're Right. I mean, whatare the, how can we not just as
as a community at large, butindividual communities say okay,
(33:23):
well, we've got, we've got totake the responsibility here. If
other levels of government arenot listening, we've got to
prove a point. And it helps uswith other groups with advocacy.
So we have to leverage thetechnology we have to make
people aware of these issues, sothat we not only can educate our
own community, but the communityat large that also can advocate.
(33:47):
So I think your answer is spoton. And I really appreciate you
delving into that it's not, it'snot easy, because you don't want
to be judgmental. But on theother hand, we have to talk
about the realities. And we haveto talk about some pathes
forward. I think doing thatdoing that all. So then all of
this art, this art work thatyou're doing and all this
(34:08):
amazing work that you're doingup in the Northern communities.
And you still have time to dosome recordings, with the music
that you're recording, are thesenew new songs that have come to
you that you're writing. What isthe content of these these new
pieces?
Susan Aglukark (34:27):
They are new songs, and they're inspired by
the current climate we're insocially, you know, we talk
about and I come back to theword reconciliation, but really,
my focus is healing. I've alwaysfelt that we've done this
incredible work to put publiclywhat we have always known as
(34:49):
Indigenous people. I mean, I'vebeen writing about the
challenges in our communitiessince I first started writing.
The Arctic Rose album is allabout those challenges. And not
much has changed in 30 years.
And yet we've we've got accessto the Truth and Reconciliation
Report, we've seen the work ofthe inquiry, the Missing and
Murdered Indigenous Women'sinquiry, we've seen all that. I
love Dr. Blackstock and her workwith Jordan's Principle. And so
(35:11):
we see the shifting, and allthis information that we have
access to now. And so what I'mtrying to do is one of my
projects is called again, I comeback to the word [word in
Inuktitut] because that's theroot word for work together,
attack it together. And so oneof the projects is creating this
(35:32):
team of four people, and it's anally ship project. So what that
means is moving forward asIndigenous people or non
Indigenous people, it doesn'tmean one without the other, it
means we have to find a way towork together, it was never
about, for example, Indigenouscommunities healing and healing
(35:56):
only if the non Indigenous areno longer there a part of the
equation. Ally ships areimportant. And so Indigenous,
non Indigenous ally ships. Andso this team of four is myself
with the music, collaboratingand mentoring a young up and
coming Indigenous artists withan Indigenous choreographer and
a non Indigenous fourth person.
(36:18):
So we have a team of four rightnow. And we are working to
create dance piece. Because wehave beautiful Indigenous
choreographers and movement asexpression is very important
when we're healing. And so thenI have a young throat singer,
singer on board to help mecollaborate in this piece of
(36:38):
music, we're creating that we'regoing to create a dance piece
around, and we've got a nonIndigenous drama movement
teacher that will join the team.
And that idea came coming out ofwhat does healing look like in
this reconciliation piece. Wellally ships, we have to ensure
that in our work moving forward,we're not repeating the problem
(36:58):
by saying you and not you.
Inclusivity is a critical partof these ally ships. And so
that's that's the focus of mywork right now. Other
songwriting is coming from,well, it's an immediate response
to the state of the world,environmentally, actually. So
(37:20):
there's another song that I'mcollaborating in that is just
strictly a reaction to thesituation we're living in
environmentally. So there's allthose things that are inspired
by the immediate situationswe're in right now globally, and
in our country.
Roberta Bondar (37:33):
Wow. I don't know what to say, except that
I'm going to, I'm just reallygoing to look forward to hearing
hearing it all. I saw a clip ofyou doing some throat singing
with with an individual now thatwas probably I know, three or
four years ago, maybe evenlonger given COVID distorts
time. Do you are you interestedin that as one of your forms of
(37:55):
music? Or do you incorporatethat in any of your singing?
Susan Aglukark (37:58):
So probably what you saw was a small piece called
breaths. And yeah, yeah. And itwas part of that part of the
award ceremony, the GovernorGeneral's Award ceremony and
that's one area I really reallystruggle in actually. I have
tried and tried and tried tolearn throat singing and I just
(38:19):
don't get it. So that thatlovely young artist Kathleen
Merritt, who was coaching me hadto pick the easiest throat
singing piece we could find[Laughter].
Roberta Bondar (38:30):
It sounded difficult! [Laughter]
Susan Aglukark (38:34):
It you know, and it isn't it isn't but this is
this is the stuff that excitesme is I I've traced it to my
trauma. And so we're in thisally ship piece for example, in
the drama and movement I've madeI've been very clear with our
drama coach that I will notdance, I want to dance but I
can't dance. So when we talkabout trauma, intergenerational
(38:56):
trauma, we can trace it. So whenI understand why I can't dance
and I can't throat sing, Iunderstand why, I know where
it's coming from. And then youknow, it's just one of those
things I walk away from but Ican observe and witness and see
how beautiful it is when otherpeople do it right. But to
answer your question, no. Iwould love to throat sing and
(39:19):
maybe one day I will. Maybe theright set of circumstances will
burst it open. I'm just notthere yet, I would love to be
and I can't be and so we haveaccess to beautiful throat
singers that we can work withthat become that fill that space
in if we need in a creationpiece. For me, myself, I can't
(39:40):
do it right now.
Roberta Bondar (39:41):
I think one of the other allies for many, many
people in Canada is the the newGovernor General and the
prominence that the North playsinto everything that she she is
whether it's the clothes,whether she's she's actually
giving interviews in Inuktitutor whether she's, she's just
(40:04):
talking about the pride that shehas in the land. I think she is,
is a force as well. And it, it'sjust wonderful to have everyone
to look up to, people like youand and Mary Simon to say, hey,
you know, there's depth in ourcountry that that we need to
protect, we need to advocatefor, we need to encourage, we
(40:29):
need to support, all thosethings. It's, it makes us all
feel very, very proud of, ofaccomplishments the
accomplishment itself for apersonal reason or not. And I
think they must feel when peoplecome to your, your sessions that
you have, or your workshops, orwhatever it is that you're
(40:52):
entitling them. These peoplemust feel just fantastic being
able to see an accomplishedperson who is from the North,
who has not not strayed from thevalue system, not strayed from
the language, and is trying tocross boundaries with with art,
(41:12):
that you don't that it's, it'sgreat to retain one part of a
culture but you you expand it,not just across different forms
of art, but different differentcultures. I just, it's really,
it's a great time to be able tosee that energy and to be able
to do something about it. So I'dlike to congratulate you on
(41:32):
that.
Susan Aglukark (41:33):
Thank you. And absolutely, I think Mary Simon
when, when it was announced, itwas like this collective exhale,
because if there was anyoneeminently qualified, it is Mary.
She came into the Earth, shecame into this world at a time
when things were changing forInuit, but there was still a
(41:56):
very strong traditionalconnection of that generation of
Inuit. And she has that, she hasthat inherently in her. And you
feel it with her, even in hercompany. All these years that
I've known her, I feel it in herthat that innate Inuk-ness that
she she carries. And so whenwhen it was announced, and it
(42:18):
was just this, this relief, andthis exhale, from the Inuit, for
sure, I think from the generalIndigenous population.
Roberta Bondar (42:27):
I had the privilege of doing a little bit
with her because I waschancellor at Trent University.
And when Peter Gzowski passedaway, she stepped back into that
role. So I had some opportunityto speak with her. So when she
became Governor General, I wroteher this note. And wow within 10
days, I get a handwritten noteback from Mary, which was quite
impressive, because hundreds andhundreds and hundreds, if not
(42:49):
1000s, of people congratulatingher on on the role that she has
that she's taken on.
Susan Aglukark (42:56):
Absolutely. And she's just so calm and
experienced in the politicalworld. And then her life in the
Inuit world, they just are sowell, good qualifications for
what she's going, she's done,and she's going to do in her
role.
Roberta Bondar (43:16):
I think it's fantastic. And I just think it's
a it's just a great time. And soI'm really pleased to be able to
talk to you today. And I justwant to say thank you for
everything that you continue todo, Susan.
Susan Aglukark (43:27):
Thank you. Yeah, thank you very much for this
great conversation.
Roberta Bondar (43:30):
I've thoroughly enjoyed it. Take good care.
Susan Aglukark (43:33):
All right.
Roberta Bondar (43:34):
Okay, bye bye.
Bye bye. It really is aprivilege to engage with other
minds and experiences. I wouldlike to thank Susan Aglukark for
sharing her thoughts on healingand life with us today. Thank
you for joining me for thispodcast series Sharing Space
with Dr. Roberta Bondar. It wasa privilege to converse with
David, Buffy, Michael Hayley,Anne, and Susan. They were
(43:57):
generous of their time to helpme celebrate the 30th
anniversary of my spaceflight.
Check out this unique creativeonline anniversary event at
www.therbf.org and get yourtickets now. All tickets receive
a charitable donation receiptwith funds going to support the
(44:18):
programs of the Roberta BodnarFoundation. I would love you to
join me then stay well and staysafe until another time and
space. This is Dr. RobertaBondar signing off. For now.
The celebration of the 30th anniversary of my
historic spaceflight continuesback here on earth with this
podcast series Sharing Spacewith Dr. Roberta Bondar. Now
this is an opportunity for youto join me while I explore life,
creativity, flexibility andchange with my guests, some of
the most famous and globallywell respected Canadians. In
(00:24):
each of these podcasts, we willhear a special guest express
personal views about the presentand the future. And if you have
a deep passion for explorationand inquiry, whether it's
through the arts, sciences, orathletics for example, the
storytelling in this series isfor those who wander and those
who wonder. Join me now toexplore how some of the most
(00:47):
notable Canadians exercise theircreativity and curiosity in a
wide array of fields. Unlikethose of the night sky, these
stars are within reach. So let'stap into their energy as they
enlightened us. Depth of thoughtwith technical precision that is
layered over a calmnesstranscending a single culture
(01:08):
describes the songwriting andsinging of our Susan Aglukark.
Arctic Rose was the beginning, amasterful album drawn from her
life of uncertainty, andreleased the year that I flew in
space in 1992. More albums havefollowed right up to the present
day. Susan does not shy awayfrom difficult societal issues,
having experienced dark days inher own past. A multiple Juno
(01:31):
Award winner, and recipient ofthe Governor General's lifetime
Artistic Achievement Award. Shewrites and sings with themes of
hope, inspiration andencouragement, and infuses our
lives through the expression oflove and connection to Inuit
culture and tradition. AnOfficer of the Order of Canada,
Susan Aglukark reaches out toyouth in the North, addressing
(01:52):
complex health crises of foodsecurity and supply and suicide,
while promoting the environmentand education. She believes and
encourages calmness and healingas approaches to improving one's
mental health. Her laugh andsmile are infectious, and she
has much to teach us. Let'sbegin. Hey, Susan, welcome to
(02:13):
the podcast Sharing Space. And Ithink it's just fantastic you're
able to join us today. And, andI haven't seen you for a few
years now, what have you been upto in the interim?
Susan Aglukark (02:23):
Well, during the pandemic year, I've been using
the time to sink my teeth intothe things we've put on the back
burner. So I've done somewriting, I've done a lot of art,
a lot of painting, which is mykind of free time hobby. So I've
spent a lot of time on that. Butalso, it's given me some time to
(02:44):
really have real focus time onmy own charity. So we've spent
the last year and a half, justfinishing up a few things that
we needed to finish up with thatwork. So and it's all connected,
all the work I'm doing isconnected. So it's been it's
been good time with thepandemic. Leading up to that we
were working on a new album,which we've of course, finished,
(03:06):
and it's ready to go and startedthe next one. So yeah, we've
been using our time.
Roberta Bondar (03:11):
What's the name of your new album?
Susan Aglukark (03:14):
So the new one, new one, that's the one that's
been done for a while, is calledThe Crossing. And that one
slated to release January, earlyFebruary. And then the second
one, I'm simply calling [word inInuktitut], which is
Collaborations because it's thisyear's been an interesting year
of people reaching out to, to,to do some collaborations, and
(03:35):
I've never done that, so this iskind of a new area for me.
Roberta Bondar (03:38):
That's it's impressive. I mean, your, your
command of the art sphere is soimpressive how you've been
folding different types of artinto your life to communicate
certain ideas and feelings. Andbefore I get into some of your
paintings, I'm really fascinatedby that. Could you tell us a
little bit about your charityand the kinds of things that
(03:59):
you've been doing? I understanda little bit about it, because
we've been we've been in touchabout food in the North. But
could you give us a, some broadstrokes about it, or maybe give
us some examples of the kinds ofthings that you feel are
important that you've beenworking on?
Susan Aglukark (04:13):
Yep. So our work with the Arctic Rose Foundation,
essentially, is exploring waysthat we can create better and
accessible basic mental healthsupports. One of the one of the
ways that I launched this, thisidea and in our first project we
(04:34):
call the Messy Book Project, ishow I came to understand the
basics of my own career andbelonging to it. A lot of the
early years of my career werevery scary because there's a lot
of pieces I didn't have, which Ilearned later are basic things
that we should all have equalaccess to. And I didn't and very
(04:58):
fortunate that I ended up withreally great friends and really
great moments of meetingwonderful people, a lot of
little snippets of things Ilearned from those connections
and how they changed.
Fundamentally, my perception ofthe industry and my role in the
industry, the potential careerin the broader industry piece.
And so there's a, there's athing that I took away from that
(05:21):
experience, and it's called[word in Inuktitut] is the root
word for Fear, Emotional Fear.
And so when I came to understandthis fear, it became one of the
major turning points in myrelationship with myself as a
writer, songwriter, artist,myself on stage all of these
things. So I take that basicconcept now and apply it into
(05:45):
the development of all thedifferent parts of our Messy
Book Program of our work in theArctic Rose Foundation. So
essentially, what we do is inthe Messy Book Program, we
explore expressive arts therapy.
And we're introducing, forexample, emotional intelligence
disconnects, and how do wereconnect them in in in their
(06:05):
children and in theirrelationship with themselves in
their learning, or education,for example, or their
relationships with theirfriends, all these things. So
that's the Messy Book Program,where it's expanded to, is to
run the Messy Book Program,we've had to explore and create
capacity locally. And that meanswe partnered and hired high
(06:28):
school students, we've trainedthem to run the, the Messy Book
Program, which is an every dayafter school program. And so in
the training of these highschool students is in and of
itself, a basic mental healthsupport. So all these things are
turning into these other reallygreat exciting side projects and
explorations. And so that's,that's happening also. So it's,
(06:50):
um, yeah, and it's reallystemming from I knew several
years into my career, I want tobe a singer, I want to be an
artist, I want to do this, thisis what my heart's calling is,
and how lucky am I that allthese early opportunities have
brought me to this, this placeof knowing and then sharing what
(07:11):
I've learned from from, fromthat experience, and turning it
into this, these programs in theArctic Rose Foundation.
Roberta Bondar (07:20):
Wow, that is impressive. I mean, there's so
many bits and pieces of that,that we could delve into. But I
do want to talk about thevarious things that come out of
having an idea that one worksforward, because one has this
frame of reference that youstart with, and then gradually
things come in that actuallymake it a larger principle that
(07:43):
to work on. And then it has allthis way of, of going to areas
that that one wouldn't havethought about. Now, for example,
when when you talked aboutpainting, what kinds of things
are in your head while you'repainting? Is it a, like is it a
cleansing time for you? Or is ita time when when you when you
focus on things that you've beenthinking about?
Susan Aglukark (08:05):
So what I learned in the early years is I
have a frantic brain, as I'msure you figured out by now.
[Laughter} And it doesn't resteasy. And there was a time when
I thought that there wassomething wrong with me because
I can't rest my brain. And thenabout about 10 years ago, I came
(08:26):
to look at it from from adifferent place to to attack it,
if you will, from a differentplace and and harness it what
why is your brain like that? Andwhy don't you just figure out
how to use that energy. So Istarted the painting. And what
I've discovered in researchingthe different artists and
(08:46):
painters is we're not all thesame, thank God. And so I landed
on abstract painting. And I loveI love everything I've learned
about abstract painting, becauseeven my painting is frenetic.
And in the process ofdiscovering the different types
of painting is my quiet place. Ifound that the more I explored
(09:13):
abstract painting, for example,and it starts off very frenetic.
And then I realized that thenyou add another layer and you
start finding a picture inthere, that my life is very much
like that. And that's whyabstract painting appeals to me
so when I look at the way thatI'm painting, I don't I don't I
(09:34):
don't approach it anymore inthat I'm looking for the calm
place. I'm just getting therejust get in there and and put it
all out there and then you'llslowly peel back the layers and
you'll find the thing you'relooking for in that in that
process. So I you know there wasa time when I and I still do to
a smaller degree, certainly notwhen I the way I used to even in
(09:57):
the approach of songwriting justbecause English is a second
language, for example, I wouldjust practically write, write,
write, write, then I would go tomy, my producer/collaborators
and say does this makes sense,does this, can I put these two
English words together, or dothey work. Versus now and I
realize, in I'm collaborating onanother song and another project
(10:20):
right now. And even in thoseconversations, I realized this
other writer whom is anincredible writer, is the same
as I am in terms of I just putit all out there, and then we'll
just, we'll just clean it up. SoI've learned all my approaches,
in all the work, I do have thatone thread, I am fanatic, and
(10:42):
that's okay. And you'll find acalm place in the process of
finding and peeling back thoselayers. And I, I've learned to
do that with my painting. Andit's really just, it's, it's
really just finding that thatcalm place in all the
frenetic-ness of our world. Andthat's what I've learned to do
with my painting.
Roberta Bondar (11:02):
And with that, in that calm place, when, when
you're painting, do youconsciously, or is there a
conscious or subconscioussinging in your head of music,
or humming? Or bringing thatkind of energy that are in some
of your pieces into into the artdo you find? Do you find your
(11:24):
brushstrokes are different whenyou do that? Maybe you could,
could you just talk a little bitabout because I it's
fascinating.
Susan Aglukark (11:30):
Yes, and no, sometimes I will put music on.
And I'll just sit in the space.
And, and not that I let themusic guide me but I, I let the
music create the tone of theroom. And depending on I guess
where I am that day, personally,then then that will, that tone
(11:55):
of the room or myself will guidethe painting. But it's it you
know, more often than not, whatI do is when I know I have a
project deadline, I will use themorning to either paint or
(12:15):
create a space get the spaceready. So there's two things I
do, I'll either go and finish apainting I've started and that
clears up my mind to go to mydeadline. So it could be a
writing deadline. Or becausepainting has become my
incentive, what I'll do is I'llprep the room and get a canvas
(12:39):
ready or get a project ready,set it aside and say you don't
touch that until you've met thatdeadline. [Laughter] It's become
my starter or the place that Ifinish and it sets it sets the
space up in my mind to go backto the. And it clears the mind.
(12:59):
So pieces fall into place onthis deadline, while I'm
painting.
Roberta Bondar (13:07):
I find it interesting that I, when people
have asked me with thephotography I'm doing, well
have you ever thought aboutpainting. Well there was a point
many, many years ago where I dida painting of the cottage
because I knew my parents alwayswanted to have a normal painting
of the cottage. I must say I wasvery, not very good at it.
[Laughter] But at least Ienjoyed being out of out of
(13:29):
doors and I enjoyed looking atthings and trying to look at
shapes and colors and all that.
That adds to an, the abstractview that that we have. And I
sometimes think about whenpeople use the term mental
health sometimes use it in avery negative term. But mental
health means our health, interms of how we view things
(13:50):
emotionally and express things.
I look at any form of art, maybenot so much science, I could
speak from that that field withsome knowledge. But I think with
art, it does provide us a way ofbreathing, a way of trying to
connect some of the pieces asyou say, the calm space to try
(14:13):
to pull us together. It leads meto go back to what you were
speaking to earlier about mentalhealth and some of the things
with the Messy Book Program.
Whether there are these pathesthat that you see that move off
that that some of the people whowere involved some especially
some of the young people, maybeeven not so young people I find
there are people, every agegroup I speak to certainly from
(14:36):
my medical standpoint and lookat how people cope with COVID
that there are new things thatthey're finding or needing that
someone needs to actually showthem that it's okay to do these
things. It sounds to me like theMessy Book Project is a way of
opening people to differentavenues they may not have
approached before.
Susan Aglukark (14:58):
Absolutely and you you know what I've learned
to do in our approach. I wasjust recently in Rankin Inlet.
And when I came back home, I, Ileft there understanding that we
always have to be open goinginto our work. Right now, the
(15:20):
Messy book Program is beingprimarily utilized by middle
school aged children and earlyteen youth. And so I go in
there, and I realized that evenin the way that we use our
language, facilitating languagehas to be very intentional. So
when when we say mental health,the stigma around mental health
(15:43):
is that oh, no, they think weneed we have where we have
problems, and we need help withthose mental health problems.
And so my takeaway from thislast trip, for example, was
well, we have to do work indestigmatizing mental health,
normalizing our approach in howwe create relationships, and
(16:04):
supports around mental health.
My, my health, for example, andI use my story as an example so
that they don't, participants orworkers don't feel like they
need therapy, as we know,therapy. So when I tell my
story, I talked about the thefranticness of my brain, and
that some of us are just builtthat way. And that's not a bad
(16:24):
thing. But Messy Book offersbasic tools to calm the frantic
brain. So you don't necessarilyhave, if you have levels of
mental health needs, and they'reone to 10 and 10 being the
worst, you may be a one or atwo, I was certainly one or two
for a time, I was five for atime, I was eight for a time.
(16:47):
And then I came back down tolevel five or two or one, and
that that's mental healthsupport. But the point being,
that we have to destigmatizemental health, especially in our
Indigenous communities, andnormalize it, because in that
language is how they receive it.
(17:08):
And they realize, okay, this isnormal, I what I'm going through
is not a bad thing. It's anormal phase, or a normal stage
in my life. And this, these arethe tools that will help me cope
with my mental health, dailychallenges, whatever they are.
So that was my takeaway fromRankin and that specific
(17:31):
demographic, that age group, andagain, the approach is going to
be different for grade 12students, and we're going to
have a different approach foryoung adults, because they are
asking for support. And it'sgoing to be different by how we
collect that information. Andhow we create programs from the
information we're collectingthrough observation is very
(17:53):
important. And it's differentfor Indigenous groups.
Roberta Bondar (17:56):
And with Indigenous languages, are there
traditionally ways ofapproaching this kind of issue
in terms of mental health, isthat something that that you can
share with us that that has someIndigenous words or basis.
Susan Aglukark (18:13):
In the Inuit community, being Inuk, there are
traditional Inuit ways ofsupporting people who needed
that extra support. There is achallenge in terms of and we're
learning this, what's excitingabout what we're creating, in
our relationships with thefoundation, there are challenges
(18:37):
in abstract thinking andabstract approaches versus
literal, we take things veryliterally. So what we're
learning and in our learningteaching is in our relationships
in in, say, the Messy BookProgram and expressive arts
therapy, a lot of the work isabstract work. It's abstract
thinking, it's, it's being inthis space, not necessarily so
(19:01):
that you walk away with a tool,but that in the moment that
you're there, it's okay, ifsomething happens, it's okay if
nothing happens, it's okay ifsomething connects or
disconnects. So we're learningto have those relationships with
them teaching them how to walkaway with okay, being okay not
walking away with something.
Abstract relationships versusliteral, if they come to the
(19:25):
room and they need therapy, theythink they're going to get a
professional in that room that'sgoing to therapize them, I mean,
doesn't have to be that way atall. So we're learning this but
teaching it as well in thesespaces. So it's, it's an
interesting place to be, thereisn't language per se, it's
there. It's being developed,now, as we are experiencing it.
(19:45):
As we are creating thoserelationships. The language is
being developed. Buttraditionally groups of Inuit
families, camps beforesettlement's, would know if
somebody needed a little extrasupport, they would they would
offer that extra support. Wasthat a mental health situation?
(20:09):
We don't know? Possibly, mostlikely it was. And they
understood that that person justneeded some extra support. And
let's figure out how to supportthem within the means that they
had at that in that time. So itwas understood. And then they
did their they did what theycould to create that support.
But that's that's changing nowthat I think what's what's been
(20:34):
a challenge is that the need tocreate those supports has grown
exponentially and very fast thatwe're not keeping up with
creating those supports and thelanguage around it. But that's
happening now.
Roberta Bondar (20:51):
Climate change, could you speak a little bit
about maybe the influence thatclimate change has on the
doesn't have to be traditionallife in the North, but just life
in the North, just living on onsome of these pressures that
that that people have. I mean,I, I know myself, if a situation
(21:12):
changes around the physically,one has to be able to to cope
with that somehow. But if it'son a mass scale, like a warming
climate, it seems to me that itreally can precipitate a very
great and very fast increase insome of these needs.
Susan Aglukark (21:31):
Right now, watching what's being documented
on Facebook, for example, I haveaccess to family in two parts of
Nunavut. So the Baffin regionand the Qikiqtaaluk region. And
lots of friends in the westernArctic as well. We know that we
are a month to a month and ahalf behind, in in our seasonal
(21:55):
change. So where we should befeeling well, the ice apparently
in one of our lakes, forexample, is just now about two
to three, three inches thick.
That should have been the case amonth and a half or two months
ago, in this one community. Whatthat means is the effect of that
changes the the timing of when ahunter can go hunting, the
(22:20):
migration of the caribou, of thefish, everything that Inuit have
and need as as sustenance forfeeding families, very basic
needs. So they don't know what'swhat's safe right now as hunters
to go hunting and whattraditionally would have been a
(22:42):
hunting space. Is it safe? Soeverybody is hyper aware that
changing. And is it safe? Whenis it safe? The other challenge
right now is because of thisdelay in the season, in this
part of the season, it delaysthe rest of the seasons as well.
So come winter, like December,January when a hunter would go
(23:05):
hunting at that time, becausethere are times of the year when
it's safe to hunt the caribou,for example, there are times
when it's not. Does that change?
And how does that change? So youknow that the climate change has
definitely affected the Northerncommunities. And we're talking
(23:28):
about communities that arealready challenged in terms of
basic supports for housing andfood insecurity issues. They
need the hunter to go hunting,to supplement that food
insecurity. And now that'schallenged. So it's you know, it
has these these triple effectsall along the hunting season,
(23:51):
the rest of the year, theplanning for their year. So
there's, there's all theseeffects right now that everybody
is looking at, because theseason is a month and a half
late, that that's a real realityup there right now.
Roberta Bondar (24:03):
I think certainly down here in southern
Ontario when I speak to some ofmy friends, they talk about
climate change in the North. Theone thing that people are
talking a lot about is the waterissue in Iqaluit and the kinds
of problems that permafrostmelting and things leaching back
(24:24):
out of the ground water has beenfrozen, the devastating effects
that it can have on a community,it's I think there are things
that we're going to find in theyears down the road that we wish
in this year that we had ananswer to so wouldn't happen as
badly that that somehowtechnology, it's not the savior,
but if there's some way that wecould empower ourselves with a
(24:49):
little bit more technology,whether it's trying to assess
water quality or assess thedelivery of water. I mean I look
at all the water bottles thatwere being delivered to Iqaluit,
all the plastic water bottlesand think there's got to be a
better way. And certainly a lotof other communities that have
not had had safe water. It'sjust the just the things about
(25:11):
daily living that we take forgranted. When we're in a place,
we're surrounded by technologyand supposedly safe water here.
I think the average Canadianprobably just feels that that's
everywhere. And I think one ofthe things that we've been faced
with is this reality that no,it's not like that everywhere.
But it seems a shame that it hasto take something very, very
(25:34):
bad, to bring it to people'sattention to try to, to grapple
with it. Whereas you come from amindset and a place where you've
seen it, and you you feel it andyou experience it, and you're
trying to, to help with thesequela of it in the communities
just in terms of people feelingsomewhat about themselves and
(25:57):
their place in life and whatthey what they can do with their
lives, that is not going to beshortened because they drink
some water that's toxicchemicals in that normally
wouldn't be there. I think allof that. I just, I just feel
that a lot of us would like todo more than we're doing. Can
you help us think about. I'm notseparating people in the North,
(26:23):
from people in the South. We'reall Canadians, as we know,
politically right now in thecountry, that where we all are
trying to help each other. Butare there things that you could
share with us that you feelwould be important things that
that that we could all do to tohelp Canadians who are having
some issues?
Susan Aglukark (26:44):
You know, all the all of the places that we'd
go to reactively are, you know,we need we need to keep
advocating. And so that means wewrite letters to our elected
officials, I think of Dr. CindyBlackstock, who successfully
(27:06):
managed to get Jordan'sPrinciple, which has been a
great funding source for theArctic Rose Foundation. Why
don't we look at more of thatkind of and that level of
advocating at the federal level?
Why don't we spend more time thework that we do Aglukark
Entertainment does, in our, inour presentations, an area of
(27:29):
focus for us is calledcorrecting the narrative. And at
the core of that conversation iswhen we say and we have these
these ongoing conversationssurround reconciliation, and
this is a word bandied out somuch, and we're all kind of
like, what does that reallymean? So for me, what that means
(27:50):
is, I come back to the word[word in Inuktitut], which is
the root word for to [word inInuktitut], to be emotionally
afraid, to be in the grips ofthis emotional fear that I spent
all my early years deferring tothe ones who know more or
better, which were always thewhite people the [word in
(28:12):
Inuktitut] and not used in, inever, in a in a derogatory way.
But that was our reality. And soin the grips of emotional fear,
we just defer to the ones whoknow more, that doesn't mean
that they knew better. So theywere making, you know, they were
making these decisions on behalfof our grandparents, for
example, that in the long run,were detrimental to, to their
(28:34):
mental health or the way thatthey live in their community or
the habits we've developed inour community. So back to your
comment about plastics. Iremember really, really clearly
I was 12 or 13 years old inArviat, walking home from
school. And there was an elderwoman, Mrs. Anuit, who lived on
the same block we lived on. Sothere are six houses on this
(28:59):
road. They had the first housewe had the last house and she
was walking home from the store.
So I grabbed one of her shoppingbags, and we were walking
together and she just simply andmatter of factly out of the blue
says in Inuktitut "I don't knowwhat the Earth is going to do
with this plastic." This is 40years ago, you know that our
(29:20):
seniors and our elders knew thatwhat we were introducing into
our lands was not good for ourland. And so why didn't we
listen to them? 40 years ago.
What should we have donedifferently 40 years ago? I
think we are in the grips of asystem that was introduced to us
early early on, and we don'tknow how to reverse this. So
(29:41):
advocating has to be donemeaningfully, effectively and
constantly that we have to beaggressively, constantly
challenging our elected leaders.
Not forget not let it go on thewayside. Have we done that? Of
course I feel like we have. Arewe, when we look at the
(30:02):
situation in Iqaluit, and we'rewaiting, waiting, waiting for
what happened? How did it cometo that? What systems weren't in
place, knowing what we know,even in the last 10 years, we've
known enough to know that thereshould have been systems in
place to protect the Arcticwaters and the people from this
(30:25):
and yet here we are in 2021. InCanada, with an Arctic community
on on, you can't even boil yourwater advisory, you can't even
don't use it, don't shower,don't drink it, don't cook with
it. In this day and age, what?
What fell through in thoseinternal systems that it came to
that point. And then now, thatcommunity again dependent on the
(30:51):
hunter and the fisher, theyprobably can't safely hunt or
fish next spring and summer,even now, probably because the
the the caribou or the fish orthe fowl that they would have
hunt, the geese that thewhatever they're hunting, the
ptarmigan has been eating andfeeding contaminated land and
(31:13):
water. And so now they probablycan't even hunt next year. So
what systems are in place tosupplement that? It's just
scary. It's just scary wherewe're going with all of this.
And all I can say is that wehave to just keep advocating,
and educating, getting our ouryouth in these positions to be
(31:36):
in the positions of leadership,so that we're more better
informed by us, for us in thework that has to happen and
change in our communities. Ihope that answers your
questions. But those are theimmediate reactions.
Roberta Bondar (31:54):
No, it's I remember years ago, I I just get
got so upset when I'd see a popcan thrown someone just throw
the pop can out. And I rememberfollowing, I would never do
this, again, given the currentclimate but about, I don't know,
seven years ago, I was followingthis man, he threw his coke can
out of the out of the window ofhis car, I followed this guy.
(32:17):
And he went, he went off into a,he knew I was following him, and
he was driving this reallyexpensive car and I would drive
my little beat up, Toyota. And Idrove right behind him. I picked
the tin, I picked the can up.
And I drove right behind him andhe pretended to go into this
driveway I pulled right inbehind. [Laughter] I said
"Excuse me, I think you droppedsomething." He says, "Oh, yes,
yes thank you," then I backedaway. And I. But I mean, I
(32:39):
wouldn't do that now because younever know what people are going
to do to you. But the idea thatthat a tree could recycle a pop
can to me was ludicrous. And I'dsee all this junk in the in the
woods. And I used to get upsetwhen back at one of the
universities I was involvedwith, they had me do part of a
(33:00):
celebrity run. And there'snothing to me worse than to run
around a track trying to getmoney from people. I mean, do
something, running around totrack what what what, you know.
Go clean up a river, you coulddo something in the environment.
And you're Right. I mean, whatare the, how can we not just as
as a community at large, butindividual communities say okay,
(33:23):
well, we've got, we've got totake the responsibility here. If
other levels of government arenot listening, we've got to
prove a point. And it helps uswith other groups with advocacy.
So we have to leverage thetechnology we have to make
people aware of these issues, sothat we not only can educate our
own community, but the communityat large that also can advocate.
(33:47):
So I think your answer is spoton. And I really appreciate you
delving into that it's not, it'snot easy, because you don't want
to be judgmental. But on theother hand, we have to talk
about the realities. And we haveto talk about some pathes
forward. I think doing thatdoing that all. So then all of
this art, this art work thatyou're doing and all this
(34:08):
amazing work that you're doingup in the Northern communities.
And you still have time to dosome recordings, with the music
that you're recording, are thesenew new songs that have come to
you that you're writing. What isthe content of these these new
pieces?
Susan Aglukark (34:27):
They are new songs, and they're inspired by
the current climate we're insocially, you know, we talk
about and I come back to theword reconciliation, but really,
my focus is healing. I've alwaysfelt that we've done this
incredible work to put publiclywhat we have always known as
(34:49):
Indigenous people. I mean, I'vebeen writing about the
challenges in our communitiessince I first started writing.
The Arctic Rose album is allabout those challenges. And not
much has changed in 30 years.
And yet we've we've got accessto the Truth and Reconciliation
Report, we've seen the work ofthe inquiry, the Missing and
Murdered Indigenous Women'sinquiry, we've seen all that. I
love Dr. Blackstock and her workwith Jordan's Principle. And so
(35:11):
we see the shifting, and allthis information that we have
access to now. And so what I'mtrying to do is one of my
projects is called again, I comeback to the word [word in
Inuktitut] because that's theroot word for work together,
attack it together. And so oneof the projects is creating this
(35:32):
team of four people, and it's anally ship project. So what that
means is moving forward asIndigenous people or non
Indigenous people, it doesn'tmean one without the other, it
means we have to find a way towork together, it was never
about, for example, Indigenouscommunities healing and healing
(35:56):
only if the non Indigenous areno longer there a part of the
equation. Ally ships areimportant. And so Indigenous,
non Indigenous ally ships. Andso this team of four is myself
with the music, collaboratingand mentoring a young up and
coming Indigenous artists withan Indigenous choreographer and
a non Indigenous fourth person.
(36:18):
So we have a team of four rightnow. And we are working to
create dance piece. Because wehave beautiful Indigenous
choreographers and movement asexpression is very important
when we're healing. And so thenI have a young throat singer,
singer on board to help mecollaborate in this piece of
(36:38):
music, we're creating that we'regoing to create a dance piece
around, and we've got a nonIndigenous drama movement
teacher that will join the team.
And that idea came coming out ofwhat does healing look like in
this reconciliation piece. Wellally ships, we have to ensure
that in our work moving forward,we're not repeating the problem
(36:58):
by saying you and not you.
Inclusivity is a critical partof these ally ships. And so
that's that's the focus of mywork right now. Other
songwriting is coming from,well, it's an immediate response
to the state of the world,environmentally, actually. So
(37:20):
there's another song that I'mcollaborating in that is just
strictly a reaction to thesituation we're living in
environmentally. So there's allthose things that are inspired
by the immediate situationswe're in right now globally, and
in our country.
Roberta Bondar (37:33):
Wow. I don't know what to say, except that
I'm going to, I'm just reallygoing to look forward to hearing
hearing it all. I saw a clip ofyou doing some throat singing
with with an individual now thatwas probably I know, three or
four years ago, maybe evenlonger given COVID distorts
time. Do you are you interestedin that as one of your forms of
(37:55):
music? Or do you incorporatethat in any of your singing?
Susan Aglukark (37:58):
So probably what you saw was a small piece called
breaths. And yeah, yeah. And itwas part of that part of the
award ceremony, the GovernorGeneral's Award ceremony and
that's one area I really reallystruggle in actually. I have
tried and tried and tried tolearn throat singing and I just
(38:19):
don't get it. So that thatlovely young artist Kathleen
Merritt, who was coaching me hadto pick the easiest throat
singing piece we could find[Laughter].
Roberta Bondar (38:30):
It sounded difficult! [Laughter]
Susan Aglukark (38:34):
It you know, and it isn't it isn't but this is
this is the stuff that excitesme is I I've traced it to my
trauma. And so we're in thisally ship piece for example, in
the drama and movement I've madeI've been very clear with our
drama coach that I will notdance, I want to dance but I
can't dance. So when we talkabout trauma, intergenerational
(38:56):
trauma, we can trace it. So whenI understand why I can't dance
and I can't throat sing, Iunderstand why, I know where
it's coming from. And then youknow, it's just one of those
things I walk away from but Ican observe and witness and see
how beautiful it is when otherpeople do it right. But to
answer your question, no. Iwould love to throat sing and
(39:19):
maybe one day I will. Maybe theright set of circumstances will
burst it open. I'm just notthere yet, I would love to be
and I can't be and so we haveaccess to beautiful throat
singers that we can work withthat become that fill that space
in if we need in a creationpiece. For me, myself, I can't
(39:40):
do it right now.
Roberta Bondar (39:41):
I think one of the other allies for many, many
people in Canada is the the newGovernor General and the
prominence that the North playsinto everything that she she is
whether it's the clothes,whether she's she's actually
giving interviews in Inuktitutor whether she's, she's just
(40:04):
talking about the pride that shehas in the land. I think she is,
is a force as well. And it, it'sjust wonderful to have everyone
to look up to, people like youand and Mary Simon to say, hey,
you know, there's depth in ourcountry that that we need to
protect, we need to advocatefor, we need to encourage, we
(40:29):
need to support, all thosethings. It's, it makes us all
feel very, very proud of, ofaccomplishments the
accomplishment itself for apersonal reason or not. And I
think they must feel when peoplecome to your, your sessions that
you have, or your workshops, orwhatever it is that you're
(40:52):
entitling them. These peoplemust feel just fantastic being
able to see an accomplishedperson who is from the North,
who has not not strayed from thevalue system, not strayed from
the language, and is trying tocross boundaries with with art,
(41:12):
that you don't that it's, it'sgreat to retain one part of a
culture but you you expand it,not just across different forms
of art, but different differentcultures. I just, it's really,
it's a great time to be able tosee that energy and to be able
to do something about it. So I'dlike to congratulate you on
(41:32):
that.
Susan Aglukark (41:33):
Thank you. And absolutely, I think Mary Simon
when, when it was announced, itwas like this collective exhale,
because if there was anyoneeminently qualified, it is Mary.
She came into the Earth, shecame into this world at a time
when things were changing forInuit, but there was still a
(41:56):
very strong traditionalconnection of that generation of
Inuit. And she has that, she hasthat inherently in her. And you
feel it with her, even in hercompany. All these years that
I've known her, I feel it in herthat that innate Inuk-ness that
she she carries. And so whenwhen it was announced, and it
(42:18):
was just this, this relief, andthis exhale, from the Inuit, for
sure, I think from the generalIndigenous population.
Roberta Bondar (42:27):
I had the privilege of doing a little bit
with her because I waschancellor at Trent University.
And when Peter Gzowski passedaway, she stepped back into that
role. So I had some opportunityto speak with her. So when she
became Governor General, I wroteher this note. And wow within 10
days, I get a handwritten noteback from Mary, which was quite
impressive, because hundreds andhundreds and hundreds, if not
(42:49):
1000s, of people congratulatingher on on the role that she has
that she's taken on.
Susan Aglukark (42:56):
Absolutely. And she's just so calm and
experienced in the politicalworld. And then her life in the
Inuit world, they just are sowell, good qualifications for
what she's going, she's done,and she's going to do in her
role.
Roberta Bondar (43:16):
I think it's fantastic. And I just think it's
a it's just a great time. And soI'm really pleased to be able to
talk to you today. And I justwant to say thank you for
everything that you continue todo, Susan.
Susan Aglukark (43:27):
Thank you. Yeah, thank you very much for this
great conversation.
Roberta Bondar (43:30):
I've thoroughly enjoyed it. Take good care.
Susan Aglukark (43:33):
All right.
Roberta Bondar (43:34):
Okay, bye bye.
Bye bye. It really is aprivilege to engage with other
minds and experiences. I wouldlike to thank Susan Aglukark for
sharing her thoughts on healingand life with us today. Thank
you for joining me for thispodcast series Sharing Space
with Dr. Roberta Bondar. It wasa privilege to converse with
David, Buffy, Michael Hayley,Anne, and Susan. They were
(43:57):
generous of their time to helpme celebrate the 30th
anniversary of my spaceflight.
Check out this unique creativeonline anniversary event at
www.therbf.org and get yourtickets now. All tickets receive
a charitable donation receiptwith funds going to support the
(44:18):
programs of the Roberta BodnarFoundation. I would love you to
join me then stay well and staysafe until another time and
space. This is Dr. RobertaBondar signing off. For now.
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