November 17, 2021 • 19 mins
Podcast host Dr. Roberta Bondar introduces the series by interviewing herself! She covers what to expect in future episodes, what she would like to do on a return trip to space, and shares details about the bird migration project she is spearheading with her Foundation (AMASS/Space for Birds).
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Roberta Bondar (00:02):
The celebration of the 30th anniversary of my
historic spaceflight continuesback here on Earth with this
podcast series Sharing Spacewith Dr. Roberta Bondar. Now
this is an opportunity for youto join me while I explore life,
creativity, flexibility andchange with my guests, some of
the most famous and globallywell respected Canadians. In
(00:24):
each of these podcasts, we willhear a special guest express
personal views about the presentand the future. And if you have
a deep passion for explorationand inquiry, whether it's
through the arts, sciences, orathletics, for example, the
storytelling in this series isfor those who wander, and those
who wonder. Join me now toexplore how some of the most
(00:47):
notable Canadians exercise theircreativity and curiosity in a
wide array of fields. Unlikethose of the night sky, these
stars are within reach. So let'stap into their energy as they
enlighten us.
Hi, there. This is the firstpodcast in the series Sharing
Space with Dr. Roberta Bondar.
That would be me. In thissegment, as someone who is
(01:10):
regularly asked lots ofquestions by kids and everybody
else about space, theenvironment science,
photography, risk, creativityand resilience, for starters, I
realized that there were stilllots of questions to pose. So
I'm kicking off this series withme interviewing me. We all have
to start somewhere. And Iremember being mesmerized in my
(01:30):
youth listening to the radio andserials of adventure and
mystery. But for this serial,don't listen for spooky music or
the sounds of buzzing airplaneson my podcast. Maybe another
time. Let's begin.
Great to see you. Dr. Bondar.
May I call you Roberta?
Roberta Bondar Too (01:49):
Yes, you can call me Roberta 1000s of kids
do.
Roberta Bondar (01:54):
It's hard to believe that it has been 30
years since you flew in space.
How does that make you feel?
Roberta Bondar Too (02:01):
Well, besides old you mean? I always
think there's wisdom in age. AndI'd like to think I'm a little
wiser than I was. When I lookback on 30 years, some days,
it's like 30 minutes, some days,it's like 30 days. I don't know,
I keep telling the story overand over. And the story seems to
get better. I'm just kidding.
But the story is something thatmatures, I think with history
(02:23):
with us, looking back and tryingto explain things differently,
or maybe trying to find somemore detail that one hadn't
thought of before in the past.
So 30 years is a long time for alot of people, especially when
they're only 20. For me, at myage of well, you can look it up.
(02:43):
It just means that I've had alot of wisdom and a lot of time
to think about it. And a lot oftime to do things in between
based on that spaceflight to tryto leverage the experience and
leverage the added wisdom that Ibelieve that I gained in my
flight.
Roberta Bondar (02:59):
What would you like to do if you're able to go
into space again?
Roberta Bondar Too (03:02):
I'm assuming that you're not suggesting that
I fly with a billionaire. But ifI had the opportunity to fly
again, of course, I'd want to goto the Moon, I never really was
that keen on the InternationalSpace Station. As the next step
for me, it would have been niceto be able to look at the Earth
and contribute more to spacemedicine, for sure from the ISS.
(03:23):
But to be able to go to the Moonand look at the geology and to
look at something firsthand thatpeople have seen for millennia
ever since people just looked upto the sky the first time this
is a constant in people's lives,the Earth may have shifted with
its continents and with climatechange, even in the past with
ice ages, etc. But the Moon seemto have been a constant, at
(03:45):
least what we think we knowabout the Moon. So that would be
something that that I would liketo really see. So I really envy
the the next crew of astronautsthat are going to go around the
Moon, and probably land on theMoon within my lifetime, I hope.
Roberta Bondar (04:01):
Tell us about your current project Space for
Birds. I understand that it alsogoes by another title that
reflects your collaboration withNASA?
Roberta Bondar Too (04:09):
Yes, NASA likes acronyms. Though, we
actually call this projectinitially AMASS, which stands
for Avian Migration Aerial,Surface, and Space. That's
because we were using threeperspectives to look at the
corridors of seven species ofmigratory birds. Now, AMASS
wasn't something that a lot ofpeople could wrap their minds
(04:29):
around. So we renamed it oradditionally named it Space for
Birds, which is, I think, is agood thing to talk about,
because what we're trying to dois create space that these birds
need, especially with theirhabitats. But also we want to
use the space perspective tosomehow try to put these
(04:52):
migratory corridors which arevery, very large, in in context.
Roberta Bondar (04:57):
What are the seven species that you're
following then?
Roberta Bondar Too (05:01):
Well in North America, we started out
and continue to follow the veryendangered Whooping Crane which
is a very large bird about fivefeet tall with a wingspan of
about seven feet. And it nestsand grows initially in Wood
Buffalo National Park, up in theNorthwest Territories, and then
(05:21):
it flies about 4200 kilometers,stopping, of course to feed on
the way down as it heads to theGulf Coast of Texas to a place
around Aransas National WildlifeRefuge, so that was the first
and is the biggest birds ofcourse that we follow. The other
birds are also threatened orendangered so we're following
(05:44):
the Piping Plover, the Red Knot,the rufa subspecies. Let's see
what else we've got our sightson, Sprague's Pipit that are
grassland birds, as opposed toone that likes to wetlands or is
on the coast. And in Europe, wewould like to be able to look at
creatures like the CurlewSandpiper, and Black-tailed
(06:07):
Godwit. These are birds thatwere suggested to us by the
United Nations EnvironmentProgramme. So we're very keen on
on following them as well. Wehave been looking a bit at the
Arctic Tern, it's a little moredifficult to photograph in the
southern reaches of itsmigratory corridor. Those are
just some of the birds that wehave some interest in. We'd like
(06:30):
to follow as many birds as wecan. And so we take the
opportunity, for example, whenwe're photographing down on the
shoreline, we take both video,and still images. And these
still images are with very largehigh resolution cameras. So we
can enlarge the image andactually see the banding on
different types of birds. And wecan report them to the
conservation folks. And they canactually tell us where these
(06:52):
birds were banded when it wasbanded, if they've been seen
before. So we add to the thescience of understanding bird
migration. We also arephotographing from helicopters
to give us the aerialperspective. And I just mean I
love anything that flies let'sface it. And I really enjoyed
taking my large Hasselbladcameras and photographing out
(07:13):
the window at the Earth below.
And sometimes, especially in thenesting area, we actually can
have a Whooping Crane, they'rethe only ones we can see from
the air, the other ones are waytoo small. We can photograph it.
And also on the staging routedown in Saskatchewan we can we
can we've actually photographedsome of the big flock of these
of these birds, when they gettogether to stage before they
(07:37):
actually dissipate into familiesor fly with Sandhill Cranes.
Some of the more immature birdsdown to the Aransas area, when I
look at some of the aerial workwe're trying to do with some of
the other birds is basically tolook at their habitat, and to
look at relationships that wecan best appreciate from the air
(07:58):
instead of from the ground. Andthe reason we don't use drones
is because the drones well firstof all, they're forbidden in any
National Wildlife Refuge orNational Park in North America.
But they can also scare thebirds. So the helicopters can
fly high enough up. And I havetelephoto lenses on my cameras
that we can get very highresolution images of these of
(08:19):
the habitat areas in which thebirds need to stay and rest and
feed on their way down from thetheir nesting area down to their
wintering overwintering area.
Roberta Bondar (08:35):
Can you give us an example of the danger or
complexity involved incompleting this project? I
imagine at least in ahelicopter, you are at some
risk?
Roberta Bondar Too (08:43):
Well, it's interesting, you would ask that
question. Because travelingthese days is filled with
danger. It's filled with theunexpected. One has to be able
to embrace change because itcomes at us all the time,
whether it's getting testedbefore we get to the airport
getting tested before we go backto the airport, keeping masks on
(09:04):
socially distancing. Trying tokeep up with the latest news
trying to be be concerned justabout a personal health without
even thinking about the nextlevel of danger, which is
getting in a car and driving tothese these various areas.
Because these field trips meanthat these birds are not right
by the airport. They tend to bein highly protected areas.
(09:27):
Luckily, we have developed greatpartnerships with Parks Canada,
for example, the CanadianWildlife Service and the US Fish
and Wildlife Service. And theyall try to help us get into
these areas to provide a betterpath for us and actually provide
us some on ground support. Forexample, this coming in the
(09:47):
coming months, we're going to belooking at bird banding down in
the National Wildlife Refugewith the Whooping Cranes. Now
that's going to be somethingthey're big birds to have to
they can't catch them in thenet, so they have to lure them
in with some food and then verycarefully, hold them and draw
blood make sure that theyunderstand what kind of what
(10:09):
gender the bird is, and theytagged the birds may even put a
geo locator on them, they'regetting much smaller now
cellular services is much betterto try to follow these birds
with. And then we also are goingto hopefully visit a prescribed
burn in the same NationalWildlife Refuge that is used to
get rid of some of the invasivespecies or at least keep it down
(10:32):
to a dull roar. And thatimproves the habitat for
Whooping Cranes, we've got acouple of relatively dangerous
things to do. Plus, we're goingto be going up hopefully to the
Midwest of the United States, inthe springtime during the
migration from National WildlifeRefuge back up to the Wood
Buffalo National Park area tonest where we can perhaps take a
(10:54):
helicopter over some of theareas to photograph the habitat
in the American Midwest, becauseagriculture, it has pluses and
minuses for the birds. But alsothings like building wind farms.
Whooping Cranes, for example,like going, maybe five
kilometers out of their the wayto avoid one of these wind farms
(11:15):
or avoid a tower. We don't knowwhat's going to happen in the
future when there's moreintensity of wind as a green
energy source. So there's a lotof danger involved, not just for
for us, but also for the birds.
And we want to be sure that wedo this in the most non invasive
way possible to be able to, tobring the kind of view from
(11:36):
space, from the air and on thesurface that we can for
individuals so that they don'tmiss out on a reason why they
should protect the habitat forthese endangered birds.
Roberta Bondar (11:52):
How has COVID changed your fieldwork?
Roberta Bondar Too (11:56):
As with everybody, it really curtailed
travel for a whole year. So thatmeant the whole migratory
corridor from north to south. Soif the north all the stopover
areas, staging areas, wecouldn't go to photograph, we'd
like to get out when they're incertain areas so that we can
understand the habitat better.
What is it they need for thesefor their migration, safe, safe
(12:16):
migration. So that's that's,that's a huge impact is,
especially at my age, moving alife out a year out of my life,
where I haven't, I haven't beenable to be as productive as
normally, I wanted to be to beable to really work on this
project and bring it to a closeto move on to the phase of phase
(12:37):
two.
Roberta Bondar (12:41):
I don't know if you have a favorite bird or not,
but you must have some kind ofbird that you like better than
others. And if you do why?
Roberta Bondar Too (12:49):
Oh you're right, it's hard to it's hard to
pick one bird. I mean, in thewintertime, I must say I do like
to see the red Cardinals becausethey're quite a contrast against
the snow or Snowy Owls, becausethat's when we see them. It's
also great down in the Midwest,when we look at some of the
creatures that gathered togetherthat get along with each other
(13:11):
in some of these NationalWildlife Refuges. And I look at
some of the long fliers like theArctic Tern and what they go
through and then theirmigration, it there's so
amazing. Internationally, Ithink there are beautiful birds
I mean, albatrosses in Africa.
We're very interested in theLesser Flamingo, it's the other
species that I didn't mentionearlier. But it's one that is,
(13:32):
is amazing. It's just an amazingcreature. Its heads upside down
when it feeds. It has verylimited number of eggs it lays.
limited number of progeny. Andreally, its whole life depends
on nesting in this oneparticular salt lake, 80% of the
(13:52):
world's natural population, nestin this one lake so you can
imagine if anything happened tothat, like it would really wipe
out all these birds. So that'swhy they're they're threatened.
So those are very beautifulbirds. So I it's hard, hard to
pick them. In Africa, I alsolike the Lilac-breasted Roller.
I like the Bachelor when it's upin a tree looking down. I love
(14:15):
some of the majestic owls. Imean, just, they're incredible
things and species that I havenot seen. I just, there's just
not enough time in my life leftto be able to even think about
picking one bird over anotherbird. But I do have an interest
in certainly in birds that Ihaven't seen before. Or at least
a photograph some of thebehaviors that I haven't seen
(14:37):
before in birds that I'vealready photographed.
Roberta Bondar (14:43):
And what about flying? How did you get
interested in flying?
Roberta Bondar Too (14:46):
Well the birds came first, maybe even
Superman in the old, in the olddays. I remember one time
putting on a red cape and redsocks and jumping off the bed.
And it didn't do very well whenI hit the floor. And I think my
mother came up try to what theheck I was doing anyway, figured
out pretty quickly that it tookmore than a cape and red socks
to be like Superman. Birds seemto have it all. They were free
(15:12):
to fly in the sky. And they raninto difficulties a lot because
of disease or things that humanswould put in their path. So I
think I became very protectiveof birds. And I admired how they
how they flew. So now feathersbecome a big thing with me. I
(15:33):
love to look at feathers. Ithink they're extraordinary how
you can, I know what DNA you cando a lot these days, but you can
look at a feather from a birdand experts can just tell you
what that bird is and how oldthat bird is. Because birds do
molt and drop their feathers.
But anyway, that's more than youasked me. You had something else
in mind?
Roberta Bondar (15:52):
Well, how was your background enabled you to
succeed in this project?
Roberta Bondar Too (15:56):
It's true that I did not study ornithology
when I was a student at theUniversity of Guelph. I did a
broader degree in zoology. But Idid do in my final year, some
veterinary courses, because asthough I wanted to be a medical
doctor, there were no medicalcourses there, the veterinary
courses were the closest thing Icould come to. So I learned
(16:16):
about, I think I learned moreabout working with animals that
couldn't speak for themselves.
And the idea that birds seemedto be so fragile, and their
bones are hollow, and they havesuch a special gift. I think
that's kind of what reallyattracted me. So my background
as a physician, and as as azoologist, and my professional
(16:37):
photography background, and asan astronaut, all of that comes
together with this project tobring together the disparate
parts of a migratory corridor.
They try to say, hey, you know,astronauts fly over
international boundaries withoutpermission without looking at
(16:58):
anything we fly in space, wefloat. And birds do very much
the same kind of thing,migratory birds. So all of that
puts me in a different thinkingspace, and how to be creative
about developing things forenvironment education. And my
background is in neurology,which is, I must admit, I did
(17:19):
sub specialize in neuroophthalmology, which is how we
see and view the world aroundus. And that has enabled me to
understand how the brain reallylikes taking visual imagery in
and how it sees better how itallows us to participate in the
world.
Roberta Bondar (17:36):
How do you feel about birding as a pastime?
Roberta Bondar Too (17:39):
COVID has really helped with this birding
to become something that a lotmore people are doing. First of
all, people want to get out ofdoors, which is a great thing.
It's really helpful for mentalhealth. But birds are things
that we assume are going to bethere. And so people start
reading more about the impact ofclimate change on on birds, not
(18:01):
just the habitat, but on theirfood sources, on diseases that
might affect them, on wherethey're going now, because
climate has changed when theylay their eggs and polar bears,
for example, are coming closerto colonies of birds that are
laying your eggs and birds,bears get very, very hungry and
(18:21):
they could wipe out a wholecolony of birds. So I think the
idea for us to learn aboutclimate change is is very
important in this in this time,we have to understand what we as
individuals can do. So birdingis a great way of introducing
people to think about change andhow it affects other species on
the planet.
Roberta Bondar (18:42):
Are there any final thoughts you'd like to
share with us?
Roberta Bondar Too (18:46):
Well, I hope everyone will join you and your
podcast series Sharing Spacewith Dr. Roberta Bondar, kind of
a catchy title. I hope I've beenable to contribute something
today because you asked aboutsome of my favorite things, and
I think it could have gone onfor a long time, but I really
had to hold myself back. I lookforward to listening to your
podcast. And I wish you allkinds of success.
Roberta Bondar (19:10):
Come back again for the next Sharing Space with
Dr. Roberta Bondar podcast whenmy guest will be astronaut and
physician Dr. DavidSaint-Jacques. Thanks for
joining me
The celebration of the 30th anniversary of my
historic spaceflight continuesback here on Earth with this
podcast series Sharing Spacewith Dr. Roberta Bondar. Now
this is an opportunity for youto join me while I explore life,
creativity, flexibility andchange with my guests, some of
the most famous and globallywell respected Canadians. In
(00:24):
each of these podcasts, we willhear a special guest express
personal views about the presentand the future. And if you have
a deep passion for explorationand inquiry, whether it's
through the arts, sciences, orathletics, for example, the
storytelling in this series isfor those who wander, and those
who wonder. Join me now toexplore how some of the most
(00:47):
notable Canadians exercise theircreativity and curiosity in a
wide array of fields. Unlikethose of the night sky, these
stars are within reach. So let'stap into their energy as they
enlighten us.
Hi, there. This is the firstpodcast in the series Sharing
Space with Dr. Roberta Bondar.
That would be me. In thissegment, as someone who is
(01:10):
regularly asked lots ofquestions by kids and everybody
else about space, theenvironment science,
photography, risk, creativityand resilience, for starters, I
realized that there were stilllots of questions to pose. So
I'm kicking off this series withme interviewing me. We all have
to start somewhere. And Iremember being mesmerized in my
(01:30):
youth listening to the radio andserials of adventure and
mystery. But for this serial,don't listen for spooky music or
the sounds of buzzing airplaneson my podcast. Maybe another
time. Let's begin.
Great to see you. Dr. Bondar.
May I call you Roberta?
Roberta Bondar Too (01:49):
Yes, you can call me Roberta 1000s of kids
do.
Roberta Bondar (01:54):
It's hard to believe that it has been 30
years since you flew in space.
How does that make you feel?
Roberta Bondar Too (02:01):
Well, besides old you mean? I always
think there's wisdom in age. AndI'd like to think I'm a little
wiser than I was. When I lookback on 30 years, some days,
it's like 30 minutes, some days,it's like 30 days. I don't know,
I keep telling the story overand over. And the story seems to
get better. I'm just kidding.
But the story is something thatmatures, I think with history
(02:23):
with us, looking back and tryingto explain things differently,
or maybe trying to find somemore detail that one hadn't
thought of before in the past.
So 30 years is a long time for alot of people, especially when
they're only 20. For me, at myage of well, you can look it up.
(02:43):
It just means that I've had alot of wisdom and a lot of time
to think about it. And a lot oftime to do things in between
based on that spaceflight to tryto leverage the experience and
leverage the added wisdom that Ibelieve that I gained in my
flight.
Roberta Bondar (02:59):
What would you like to do if you're able to go
into space again?
Roberta Bondar Too (03:02):
I'm assuming that you're not suggesting that
I fly with a billionaire. But ifI had the opportunity to fly
again, of course, I'd want to goto the Moon, I never really was
that keen on the InternationalSpace Station. As the next step
for me, it would have been niceto be able to look at the Earth
and contribute more to spacemedicine, for sure from the ISS.
(03:23):
But to be able to go to the Moonand look at the geology and to
look at something firsthand thatpeople have seen for millennia
ever since people just looked upto the sky the first time this
is a constant in people's lives,the Earth may have shifted with
its continents and with climatechange, even in the past with
ice ages, etc. But the Moon seemto have been a constant, at
(03:45):
least what we think we knowabout the Moon. So that would be
something that that I would liketo really see. So I really envy
the the next crew of astronautsthat are going to go around the
Moon, and probably land on theMoon within my lifetime, I hope.
Roberta Bondar (04:01):
Tell us about your current project Space for
Birds. I understand that it alsogoes by another title that
reflects your collaboration withNASA?
Roberta Bondar Too (04:09):
Yes, NASA likes acronyms. Though, we
actually call this projectinitially AMASS, which stands
for Avian Migration Aerial,Surface, and Space. That's
because we were using threeperspectives to look at the
corridors of seven species ofmigratory birds. Now, AMASS
wasn't something that a lot ofpeople could wrap their minds
(04:29):
around. So we renamed it oradditionally named it Space for
Birds, which is, I think, is agood thing to talk about,
because what we're trying to dois create space that these birds
need, especially with theirhabitats. But also we want to
use the space perspective tosomehow try to put these
(04:52):
migratory corridors which arevery, very large, in in context.
Roberta Bondar (04:57):
What are the seven species that you're
following then?
Roberta Bondar Too (05:01):
Well in North America, we started out
and continue to follow the veryendangered Whooping Crane which
is a very large bird about fivefeet tall with a wingspan of
about seven feet. And it nestsand grows initially in Wood
Buffalo National Park, up in theNorthwest Territories, and then
(05:21):
it flies about 4200 kilometers,stopping, of course to feed on
the way down as it heads to theGulf Coast of Texas to a place
around Aransas National WildlifeRefuge, so that was the first
and is the biggest birds ofcourse that we follow. The other
birds are also threatened orendangered so we're following
(05:44):
the Piping Plover, the Red Knot,the rufa subspecies. Let's see
what else we've got our sightson, Sprague's Pipit that are
grassland birds, as opposed toone that likes to wetlands or is
on the coast. And in Europe, wewould like to be able to look at
creatures like the CurlewSandpiper, and Black-tailed
(06:07):
Godwit. These are birds thatwere suggested to us by the
United Nations EnvironmentProgramme. So we're very keen on
on following them as well. Wehave been looking a bit at the
Arctic Tern, it's a little moredifficult to photograph in the
southern reaches of itsmigratory corridor. Those are
just some of the birds that wehave some interest in. We'd like
(06:30):
to follow as many birds as wecan. And so we take the
opportunity, for example, whenwe're photographing down on the
shoreline, we take both video,and still images. And these
still images are with very largehigh resolution cameras. So we
can enlarge the image andactually see the banding on
different types of birds. And wecan report them to the
conservation folks. And they canactually tell us where these
(06:52):
birds were banded when it wasbanded, if they've been seen
before. So we add to the thescience of understanding bird
migration. We also arephotographing from helicopters
to give us the aerialperspective. And I just mean I
love anything that flies let'sface it. And I really enjoyed
taking my large Hasselbladcameras and photographing out
(07:13):
the window at the Earth below.
And sometimes, especially in thenesting area, we actually can
have a Whooping Crane, they'rethe only ones we can see from
the air, the other ones are waytoo small. We can photograph it.
And also on the staging routedown in Saskatchewan we can we
can we've actually photographedsome of the big flock of these
of these birds, when they gettogether to stage before they
(07:37):
actually dissipate into familiesor fly with Sandhill Cranes.
Some of the more immature birdsdown to the Aransas area, when I
look at some of the aerial workwe're trying to do with some of
the other birds is basically tolook at their habitat, and to
look at relationships that wecan best appreciate from the air
(07:58):
instead of from the ground. Andthe reason we don't use drones
is because the drones well firstof all, they're forbidden in any
National Wildlife Refuge orNational Park in North America.
But they can also scare thebirds. So the helicopters can
fly high enough up. And I havetelephoto lenses on my cameras
that we can get very highresolution images of these of
(08:19):
the habitat areas in which thebirds need to stay and rest and
feed on their way down from thetheir nesting area down to their
wintering overwintering area.
Roberta Bondar (08:35):
Can you give us an example of the danger or
complexity involved incompleting this project? I
imagine at least in ahelicopter, you are at some
risk?
Roberta Bondar Too (08:43):
Well, it's interesting, you would ask that
question. Because travelingthese days is filled with
danger. It's filled with theunexpected. One has to be able
to embrace change because itcomes at us all the time,
whether it's getting testedbefore we get to the airport
getting tested before we go backto the airport, keeping masks on
(09:04):
socially distancing. Trying tokeep up with the latest news
trying to be be concerned justabout a personal health without
even thinking about the nextlevel of danger, which is
getting in a car and driving tothese these various areas.
Because these field trips meanthat these birds are not right
by the airport. They tend to bein highly protected areas.
(09:27):
Luckily, we have developed greatpartnerships with Parks Canada,
for example, the CanadianWildlife Service and the US Fish
and Wildlife Service. And theyall try to help us get into
these areas to provide a betterpath for us and actually provide
us some on ground support. Forexample, this coming in the
(09:47):
coming months, we're going to belooking at bird banding down in
the National Wildlife Refugewith the Whooping Cranes. Now
that's going to be somethingthey're big birds to have to
they can't catch them in thenet, so they have to lure them
in with some food and then verycarefully, hold them and draw
blood make sure that theyunderstand what kind of what
(10:09):
gender the bird is, and theytagged the birds may even put a
geo locator on them, they'regetting much smaller now
cellular services is much betterto try to follow these birds
with. And then we also are goingto hopefully visit a prescribed
burn in the same NationalWildlife Refuge that is used to
get rid of some of the invasivespecies or at least keep it down
(10:32):
to a dull roar. And thatimproves the habitat for
Whooping Cranes, we've got acouple of relatively dangerous
things to do. Plus, we're goingto be going up hopefully to the
Midwest of the United States, inthe springtime during the
migration from National WildlifeRefuge back up to the Wood
Buffalo National Park area tonest where we can perhaps take a
(10:54):
helicopter over some of theareas to photograph the habitat
in the American Midwest, becauseagriculture, it has pluses and
minuses for the birds. But alsothings like building wind farms.
Whooping Cranes, for example,like going, maybe five
kilometers out of their the wayto avoid one of these wind farms
(11:15):
or avoid a tower. We don't knowwhat's going to happen in the
future when there's moreintensity of wind as a green
energy source. So there's a lotof danger involved, not just for
for us, but also for the birds.
And we want to be sure that wedo this in the most non invasive
way possible to be able to, tobring the kind of view from
(11:36):
space, from the air and on thesurface that we can for
individuals so that they don'tmiss out on a reason why they
should protect the habitat forthese endangered birds.
Roberta Bondar (11:52):
How has COVID changed your fieldwork?
Roberta Bondar Too (11:56):
As with everybody, it really curtailed
travel for a whole year. So thatmeant the whole migratory
corridor from north to south. Soif the north all the stopover
areas, staging areas, wecouldn't go to photograph, we'd
like to get out when they're incertain areas so that we can
understand the habitat better.
What is it they need for thesefor their migration, safe, safe
(12:16):
migration. So that's that's,that's a huge impact is,
especially at my age, moving alife out a year out of my life,
where I haven't, I haven't beenable to be as productive as
normally, I wanted to be to beable to really work on this
project and bring it to a closeto move on to the phase of phase
(12:37):
two.
Roberta Bondar (12:41):
I don't know if you have a favorite bird or not,
but you must have some kind ofbird that you like better than
others. And if you do why?
Roberta Bondar Too (12:49):
Oh you're right, it's hard to it's hard to
pick one bird. I mean, in thewintertime, I must say I do like
to see the red Cardinals becausethey're quite a contrast against
the snow or Snowy Owls, becausethat's when we see them. It's
also great down in the Midwest,when we look at some of the
creatures that gathered togetherthat get along with each other
(13:11):
in some of these NationalWildlife Refuges. And I look at
some of the long fliers like theArctic Tern and what they go
through and then theirmigration, it there's so
amazing. Internationally, Ithink there are beautiful birds
I mean, albatrosses in Africa.
We're very interested in theLesser Flamingo, it's the other
species that I didn't mentionearlier. But it's one that is,
(13:32):
is amazing. It's just an amazingcreature. Its heads upside down
when it feeds. It has verylimited number of eggs it lays.
limited number of progeny. Andreally, its whole life depends
on nesting in this oneparticular salt lake, 80% of the
(13:52):
world's natural population, nestin this one lake so you can
imagine if anything happened tothat, like it would really wipe
out all these birds. So that'swhy they're they're threatened.
So those are very beautifulbirds. So I it's hard, hard to
pick them. In Africa, I alsolike the Lilac-breasted Roller.
I like the Bachelor when it's upin a tree looking down. I love
(14:15):
some of the majestic owls. Imean, just, they're incredible
things and species that I havenot seen. I just, there's just
not enough time in my life leftto be able to even think about
picking one bird over anotherbird. But I do have an interest
in certainly in birds that Ihaven't seen before. Or at least
a photograph some of thebehaviors that I haven't seen
(14:37):
before in birds that I'vealready photographed.
Roberta Bondar (14:43):
And what about flying? How did you get
interested in flying?
Roberta Bondar Too (14:46):
Well the birds came first, maybe even
Superman in the old, in the olddays. I remember one time
putting on a red cape and redsocks and jumping off the bed.
And it didn't do very well whenI hit the floor. And I think my
mother came up try to what theheck I was doing anyway, figured
out pretty quickly that it tookmore than a cape and red socks
to be like Superman. Birds seemto have it all. They were free
(15:12):
to fly in the sky. And they raninto difficulties a lot because
of disease or things that humanswould put in their path. So I
think I became very protectiveof birds. And I admired how they
how they flew. So now feathersbecome a big thing with me. I
(15:33):
love to look at feathers. Ithink they're extraordinary how
you can, I know what DNA you cando a lot these days, but you can
look at a feather from a birdand experts can just tell you
what that bird is and how oldthat bird is. Because birds do
molt and drop their feathers.
But anyway, that's more than youasked me. You had something else
in mind?
Roberta Bondar (15:52):
Well, how was your background enabled you to
succeed in this project?
Roberta Bondar Too (15:56):
It's true that I did not study ornithology
when I was a student at theUniversity of Guelph. I did a
broader degree in zoology. But Idid do in my final year, some
veterinary courses, because asthough I wanted to be a medical
doctor, there were no medicalcourses there, the veterinary
courses were the closest thing Icould come to. So I learned
(16:16):
about, I think I learned moreabout working with animals that
couldn't speak for themselves.
And the idea that birds seemedto be so fragile, and their
bones are hollow, and they havesuch a special gift. I think
that's kind of what reallyattracted me. So my background
as a physician, and as as azoologist, and my professional
(16:37):
photography background, and asan astronaut, all of that comes
together with this project tobring together the disparate
parts of a migratory corridor.
They try to say, hey, you know,astronauts fly over
international boundaries withoutpermission without looking at
(16:58):
anything we fly in space, wefloat. And birds do very much
the same kind of thing,migratory birds. So all of that
puts me in a different thinkingspace, and how to be creative
about developing things forenvironment education. And my
background is in neurology,which is, I must admit, I did
(17:19):
sub specialize in neuroophthalmology, which is how we
see and view the world aroundus. And that has enabled me to
understand how the brain reallylikes taking visual imagery in
and how it sees better how itallows us to participate in the
world.
Roberta Bondar (17:36):
How do you feel about birding as a pastime?
Roberta Bondar Too (17:39):
COVID has really helped with this birding
to become something that a lotmore people are doing. First of
all, people want to get out ofdoors, which is a great thing.
It's really helpful for mentalhealth. But birds are things
that we assume are going to bethere. And so people start
reading more about the impact ofclimate change on on birds, not
(18:01):
just the habitat, but on theirfood sources, on diseases that
might affect them, on wherethey're going now, because
climate has changed when theylay their eggs and polar bears,
for example, are coming closerto colonies of birds that are
laying your eggs and birds,bears get very, very hungry and
(18:21):
they could wipe out a wholecolony of birds. So I think the
idea for us to learn aboutclimate change is is very
important in this in this time,we have to understand what we as
individuals can do. So birdingis a great way of introducing
people to think about change andhow it affects other species on
the planet.
Roberta Bondar (18:42):
Are there any final thoughts you'd like to
share with us?
Roberta Bondar Too (18:46):
Well, I hope everyone will join you and your
podcast series Sharing Spacewith Dr. Roberta Bondar, kind of
a catchy title. I hope I've beenable to contribute something
today because you asked aboutsome of my favorite things, and
I think it could have gone onfor a long time, but I really
had to hold myself back. I lookforward to listening to your
podcast. And I wish you allkinds of success.
Roberta Bondar (19:10):
Come back again for the next Sharing Space with
Dr. Roberta Bondar podcast whenmy guest will be astronaut and
physician Dr. DavidSaint-Jacques. Thanks for
joining me
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