January 30, 2025 • 44 mins
In this episode of Shawn & Mike Take A Hike, we explore the transformative mental health benefits of hiking and how spending time on the trail can positively impact your overall well-being. While we are not medical professionals, we offer personal insights into why hiking is such a powerful tool for reducing stress, improving your mood, and finding clarity.
We discuss how immersing yourself in nature can ease anxiety, the connection between physical activity and mental wellness, and how hiking helps you disconnect from the pressures of daily life to focus on the present moment. You’ll also learn why even a short walk in the woods can help clear your mind and provide a much-needed reset. Plus, we touch on the emotional rewards of conquering challenging trails, how hiking can boost self-confidence, and why the trail community plays an important role in mental health.
If you’ve ever wondered why hiking is often described as “therapy on the trail,” this episode is for you. Whether you’re looking for tips on relieving stress, connecting with nature, or simply finding peace of mind, this discussion is full of relatable stories and practical advice from two regular guys who have seen firsthand how hiking supports mental health.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I'm Shawn.
(00:03):
And I'm Mike.
And you're listening to Shawn and Mike Take a Hike.
Welcome to another episode of Shawn and Mike Take a Hike.
What are we talking about today, Mike?
Today we talk about the mental health benefits of being in the backcountry and hiking in
(00:29):
general, getting away and what it does for you mentally rather than just physically like
we've talked about in the past.
Yeah, I know.
We talked quite heavily about like how good for your body or bad for your body depending
on your personal activity level is.
(00:50):
But yeah, no, I mean, for sure mental health.
It's like, yeah.
We had a whole episode on how to prepare to be on the trail and stretches and exercise
and things like that.
But this is there's also a whole mental aspect to it, too.
So, well, for sure.
I mean, I know we've talked like in passing or briefly on previous episodes about like
(01:12):
how much we love being out there and how great it is to get away from civilization and how
great it is to be where like your phone might not even work.
Right.
And like all of those things are true.
But there's like actual proven mental health benefits from all of those things.
I mean, literally, hopefully I'm not jumping the gun here, but like literally just being
(01:36):
amongst nature is good.
Oh, yeah.
So how like they've done studies about that.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's I mean, that's pretty much the biggest one that I have found is just just
getting away from the daily grind and being out back where you don't hear that constant
buzz of electricity or whatever.
(01:58):
Like once you just get out there and you hear the silence and hear just birds chirping or
a squirrel ruffling in the leaves or whatever, it's just like so nice and relaxing.
Well, and the funny thing is like you and I even like we're not city folk necessarily
even.
Right.
We're very much like solid suburban or like maybe even a little further out than suburban.
(02:25):
Like it's not like we aren't familiar with grass and familiar with trees and stuff, but
even to just go that extra step.
Right.
Being out in the middle of nowhere.
You get away from the highways and the airplanes flying overhead constantly type thing.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
So before we get too deep into this, I think it should go without saying, but I feel like
(02:50):
we should say it anyway.
Neither one of us are qualified medical professionals and or scientists.
Right.
Or any kind of therapist or whatever.
We are none of that.
This is just two regular guys talking about what we find the mental health benefits to
(03:11):
be from being out on the trail.
Right.
For sure.
I feel like you should get that out of the way up front so that nobody could call.
This is not medical advice, people.
This is just two guys talking.
Good, good call.
So where do you want to begin with this one?
I mean, it's your deal.
(03:31):
So you tell me where you are.
So well, I mean, the biggest thing that I guess I find for me is just the amount of
stress reduction that this tends to bring.
I'm a pretty anxious person.
I tend to have a lot of daily stresses and anxiety and things.
So do I stress a bit when we're planning our trips?
(03:54):
Sure.
You know, all these kinds of things like coming to it just because I need to make sure I got
all the right, you know, I'm taking the right amount of food and not too much anymore.
I'm taking the right amount of clothes, but not too much.
Like, you know, just all those kinds of stresses that go into it.
So as soon as you get basically as soon as I get in the car and there's no more preparing,
(04:15):
quote unquote, you get in the vehicle and you're headed to the trail, then it's just
like, all right, we're on our trip.
The only thing stopping us now is we just got to get there.
And that's not where my stress ends because I stress the whole way there.
I'm like, are we sure we can park where we're going?
Are we going to be able to find the trailhead?
(04:36):
What's the weather going to be like?
Are we sure we looked up the weather in the right spot?
Like until we're actually out there, I'm a ball of stress until we're actually out there.
Oh, yes.
Yeah.
So as we're in the vehicle, I'm just I'm just I'm fine with it.
That may be a little bit more go with the flow than I am on that.
So but realistically, like once you get out, especially like I guess the combo of us, like
(04:58):
once we get out there and we're on the trail, a different stress happens because you need
to make sure you find your camps and campsite and all that kind of stuff.
But that's the fun of it.
It's like, OK, we're at waypoint a we're at our starting point and we just got to get
to here.
And there's a trail that takes us there.
So I know, like as you're talking, I'm like, man, that's all kind of stressful, too.
(05:21):
But like it's a different type of stress.
It's not your daily.
It's not your, oh, I got these voicemails.
I got to return or, oh, I got to get back to somebody that emailed me about something
or I got this door shipped out.
Like, it's not that stress at all.
It's like it's stress, but in a fun way, like in a relaxing.
(05:43):
Like being out there for me, I'm not going to say like my my like inner lizard person
or whatever doesn't get like amped up from being out in nature, like in a in a hyper
alert type of way or whatever.
But like it's not that tightness in your chest that you get from like your day to day life.
(06:06):
Right.
Yeah.
And I mean, that's just that's just it is is getting it having a different stress, I
think, is just all in general, the feeling of it.
And it's been proven, like you said, that just being out in nature like reduces stress.
It lowers your cortisol levels is what it does, and it just promotes you to relax, which
(06:30):
when you get to your campsite, I mean, you're tired from biking for over, you know, for
so long.
But it's like you like you just kind of sit there and it's like almost immediately.
It's like, man, like I get to sleep like lay here and listen to this and sleep like immediately.
Like, well, I mean, I think that like that tiredness that you get from being out there
(06:54):
right like that walking so much the we've talked before about like how you kind of watch
your feet and you're trying not to trip and you're paying attention to where you're at.
Like you're you're almost so focused on just the hiking aspect of it, like while you're
actually on the move.
Right.
You're so focused on that aspect that your mind kind of can't wander like it really the
(07:21):
type of person where you're thinking about a million things all the time.
Like that's causing stress in your life.
What I find when I'm out there, I almost am so focused on what I'm doing that I don't
have the capacity to let my mind wander to all those other things.
Right.
Which for me relieves some of that daily stress.
Like that's one of the things I like about being out there is my mind does not wander
(07:44):
in the same way that it does when I'm, you know, if I'm working on a report, but then
my mind wanders to this voicemail that I got to get back to and then that wanders to like
this other project that I should get started.
Right.
I'm almost too exhausted when I'm on the trail to let my mind wander about those things.
(08:04):
Not even exhausted.
I mean, you're just you're just ultra focused on falling down.
Yeah.
You maybe could focus a little bit more on probably.
But then even even with all that, you get like all of your, you know, your birds chirping,
your squirrels running and frolicking, your deer walking by your stream in the background.
(08:27):
Like people pay 99 cents for an app that will give them that to fall asleep to.
Right.
Like this is the real life version of that.
So even I don't know if you call that white noise.
I don't know if you call that brown noise.
I don't know if you call that green noise.
I don't know what noise that nature sound, what category that falls into.
(08:48):
But like literally people pay for machines that will replicate that sound because that
sound alone is so calming.
Yeah.
Well, and I mean, like you said, people pay by those white noise machines or whatever,
you know, like to have that done.
So yeah, I mean, it's hard to say what it'll do for each of the listeners just because
(09:11):
everybody reacts differently to every situation and everything.
But these are just things that tend to happen.
So but yeah, I mean, the stress reduction is the big one for me.
Just like I said, I live a pretty stressful and anxious life.
(09:33):
But then I mean, even on top of that, like just your it's it's exercise.
It's not exercise, but it's exercise.
Right.
So like, I mean, you everybody's heard about like, oh, these are the mental health benefits
of exercising like it, you know, getting your heart rate up and getting your your pulse going
like that releases endorphins, which again, do I have any idea what endorphins are?
(09:55):
No freaking clue.
But they're a hormone.
This does all those things that you're like going to the gym would do for people.
Right.
I'm not the type of person.
I don't want to go to a gym.
Right.
Like I don't want I don't want to do all those things.
Like I have no desire to go and like lift weights at the gym and you know, which if
(10:15):
you do, I mean, good for you.
I'm not saying that I'm just not that type of person.
This hiking gets me all those things that those people get from going to do that activity.
But in a in a setting that I enjoy.
Right.
Yeah.
And I mean, for me, too, I mean, what I find like going with the
(10:39):
going to the gym and everything is that when you after you do a workout or after you do
that, you like once you complete your your trail or, you know, you get to your your destination
and everything, you have that sense of accomplishment that you did that like 100 percent, you know,
like so you just all of a sudden once you get there, you're just like, boom, like this
(11:00):
this huge rush hits you of, hey, I'm done.
I'm done hiking for a bit.
But B, it's like we just we just tackled six and a half miles.
Yeah.
And in a part of the world that only one percent of the world is ever going to see if that
if that you and I talk about that when we're out on the trail all the time about how I
(11:24):
mean, partly, let's be honest, part of the reason that you and I like to go hiking is
like bragging rights.
Like, like I did this and you didn't.
Right.
I mean, it's not a great reason to go, but it works for me.
But I mean, you're right.
Like a fraction of human civilization has ever seen.
(11:44):
Right.
The things that you and I come across out on the trail and the sense of accomplishment
that you get when you're done, like whether it's whether it's three miles or six miles
or 10 miles or 12 miles or one mile or whatever your range is.
If that is a long way for you, you feel so good about being done with that.
(12:05):
Yeah.
Well, even if it's not necessarily a long way, but that's the goal you set and that
you accomplish that.
That's that it's an amazing feeling.
And then, I mean, just being at your destination that you're tearing down, setting up camp,
whatever.
It's just it's such a different task list than you have in your regular life is just
(12:26):
so it's like it's not hard to get out of bed because, you know, get up.
I'm at camp.
I'm on the outdoors.
Yeah.
You know, so well, and you almost like I mean, talking about getting up out of bed, like,
let's be honest, I don't love getting up out of bed in my personal life.
I don't love getting up out of bed at camp.
I really don't like I love being in bed.
(12:46):
But there's like, I don't I don't even know how to explain it.
But like when I wake up in the morning at camp and it's, you know, seven o'clock in
the morning and the birds are chirping and the sun's coming in through the tent and all
those things.
And then on top of that, I'm thinking, all right, I got 10 miles to go today.
Like I can't just lay here and be all warm and comfortable and exhausted.
(13:13):
Like I've got to get up.
Like I have a task that needs done that I have to accomplish today.
Like even just that like daily goal I feel like is good for my mental health to have
that have to get this done today thing.
Right.
Yeah.
I mean, like you said, you can't just like like laying there is not going to accomplish
(13:34):
the goal.
It doesn't suck when it's like, I don't know, 40, 50 degrees outside.
You're in your sleeping bag all nuzzled and warm.
Like, yeah, it sucks.
But you got to do it.
Yeah.
So we already talked about sleep quality.
It is proven to enhance your sleep quality, getting out there, exposure to nature and
(14:01):
natural elements and lighting.
It helps regulate your circadian rhythm.
I never knew that until I started researching for this.
Makes sense.
I do not know what that is.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
Your circadian rhythm, from what I understand, is more or less your, you get sleepy when
it gets dark out.
(14:22):
It gets you start waking up naturally as it gets light out.
So OK, so like your clock type thing.
Yeah.
It kind of helps reset your internal clock.
It doesn't when we're only out there for a few days, we're not going to get a whole reboot,
things like that.
But those that are going out, you know, doing the whole North Country Trail or, you know,
(14:43):
out for months at a time.
Yeah, they're going to get a sense of what time of day it is just by how light out it
is and everything.
So OK.
Well, and just being out in the sunlight, I mean, let's be honest.
I mean, not even not even that it's like sunny all the time, but just being outside in natural
light versus being cooped up in artificial light all the time.
(15:05):
Florescent lighting or whatever.
Yeah.
Like even just that portion of it is good for you.
I mean, presumably even on cloudy days, you're getting a little bit of vitamin D, I would
assume.
And supposedly vitamin D is good for like anxiety and depression.
So I mean, I think that kind of goes along with what you were saying, like, OK, you're
getting your your animal clock good because of the time of day you're getting that like
(15:32):
natural light like animals are supposed to get like all of that has got to be good for
you.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, we're not supposed to be.
I mean, I can't say we're not supposed to because we built a life to where we are cooped
up indoors, but, you know, you go back however many years and people were 90 percent of the
(15:55):
time outside working and outside surviving rather than just sitting at an office chair
and at a computer.
Yeah.
You know, so.
But even even going into like.
I mean, we kind of touched on planning and stuff a little bit earlier.
But for me, it kind of goes to like the same thing that I've talked about, like where you're
(16:18):
getting you're setting a goal and you're doing a goal that day.
But like even even the planning of your hike before you're actually even going to do the
hike.
For me, I I'm the type of person that I like to have something in my life to look forward
to.
Right.
Yeah.
That gives me if I've got nothing planned for the next six months, it's like every day
(16:41):
is a drag.
You know what I'm saying?
Right.
But so even just like the actual planning aspect of our hikes, which I know we talk
about a lot, but I find the planning to be fun in a nerdy way.
I mean, you and I have talked about how nerdy we get with planning.
But like even just that part, I think is good for my mental health.
So I'm getting I'm getting to have fun doing something nerdy, which I enjoy doing.
(17:07):
Right.
And that also gives me something to look forward to down the road, which boosts my.
I don't even know what you call it, because it's like it's not like I'm depressed all
the time or whatever, but it gives me.
It gives you like some reason to get up and go and keep moving forward and stuff.
I mean, but like I said, not like it makes it sound like you're depressed and you need
(17:29):
a reason to do stuff.
But like it helps like it.
And even even the planning, like it's almost like a puzzle.
Like when we sit there and we're like, OK, how we're going to where can we start and
then how far can we get that day?
And does that get us to water?
No, it doesn't.
OK, let's get this different route then.
(17:49):
Or maybe let's start at this other trailhead.
Like there's there's all the people that do Sudoku or Wurl or all those like puzzle games.
Right.
I feel like planning our hikes for me scratches the part of my brain that those puzzles probably
scratch for those people.
(18:10):
Yeah, it's a big logistic problem type of deal.
I'm a big nerd and love logistic problems.
But yeah, that's exactly what it is, because you need to have water or a campsite or you
got to have you have to figure out we only want to do this average mile distance.
(18:30):
How do we fit that in with all of the amenities or all of the things that we need for when
we get to camp and everything?
So yeah, right.
You're exactly right.
It basically it is a math problem.
Yeah, it's a math problem.
I don't want to call it a math problem because I don't love math.
But it's like, you know, it's like if if you left on a train leaving Denver at, you know,
(18:50):
it's like one of those story problems and it really is like fitting all the pieces together
because you and I usually when we're planning, at least it's like, OK, we've got five days.
So we need to pick somewhere that we can drive to hike and drive back from in that five day
period.
Where can we go?
Does it have water?
(19:12):
Can you do all the things like I don't know, I just find that part of it really fun.
And then when we're out there on the trail and actually doing the hiking, it's like,
OK, how close were we to what we planned?
Right.
How good did we get it?
Well, that's the other thing, too, is like when we're on the trail, there's that through
(19:33):
all of our planning and everything.
We'll get to our campsite and we'll be like, you know, it said it was going to be about
four and a half miles for this day or whatever.
And it will be like four point six or four point six or whatever.
And I was pretty damn close, like, you know, like we're pretty getting a lot better at
this planning thing.
We were knowing more exactly how we're getting way better.
(19:54):
How far it's going to be.
Yeah.
So well, and then that gives you like.
Not to like oversell it, but it gives me at least.
Like a competence boost.
Right.
Right.
Like, OK, this is this is what I figured.
This is how close or maybe how far off I was.
(20:16):
But like this is like we were just saying, like I'm getting a lot better at this.
Like I'm developing a skill which makes me feel good about myself and makes me feel like,
yeah, I do kind of know what I'm doing now.
Right.
Yeah.
So you feel like that.
There probably are some of those people, especially if you live closer to a trail, to where you
(20:38):
hike the same section or whatever, numerous times to where you just got your gear and
you you're like, OK, I want to go hiking tomorrow.
So you just pack your pack and away you go.
Sure.
And there's not a whole lot of planning it that that's involved with it.
But for those of us that are minimum of, you know, two hours away from the trail, it takes
(20:58):
a little bit more effort to figure out where you want to go this time, because you don't
want to drive two hours and end up in the same spot every time.
Correct.
So so we got to find a new place to go.
We got to see what amenities are out there.
So our overnight trip, it'll be a drive there, hike, drive back.
(21:20):
That will all take to, you know, the planning of that is probably three or four, like four
hour conversations of like, how are we doing this?
Probably takes 12 hours to just to.
I know, but it probably takes us 12 hours because we're really about overly nerdy about
it and down to the like, well, what type of food are you taking for the first day?
(21:45):
What are you taking for the second day?
And I feel like we might get a little excessive with it.
But I do feel I mean, I do feel like we have accomplished something over the last five
years from where you and I started five years ago.
(22:08):
Like it was roughly this time of year, five years ago, we were like, all right, we're
we're going to do this and just like figure it all out.
So like, I do feel fairly proud of us.
And like, there's something to be said about like setting out, making yourself a goal and
then accomplishing that goal.
(22:28):
Like not not just the miles or not just the being able to do it, but like you and I five
years ago were like, we're going to start hiking and we've done it and like pretty successfully
and like enjoy doing it and haven't gotten majorly hurt or majorly lost and feel like
we know what we're halfway doing now.
(22:49):
And that makes me feel good about ourselves.
Like it's like, yeah, this is something that neither one of us really know how to do.
We figured it out and that makes you feel good about yourself.
Yeah, and I mean, it's nice when I mean, OK, you spend all this money for to buy all this
gear and everything and you get out on the trail and your gear actually the stuff that
you just bought actually works or works the way you wanted it to know better feeling that
(23:14):
or like you've had it for a few years.
You take it out, you've got that little bit of like maybe it is time to replace it or
whatever, but it holds through like there's that feeling and everything it does.
It does suck when it doesn't work, but but when you still got it.
But there's always that like looking forward to that next piece of gear to like, you know,
I just got that new tent, haven't set it up, haven't like really fully looked at it yet.
(23:39):
But you know, just have known that I've got a few new pieces of gear that I got for Christmas
and everything that is just like really making me look forward to and that's that's to keep
my my positive mental block of thinking like going because like I miss the trail.
It's winter time in Michigan.
It's just we're all cooped up indoors.
We just had that Arctic blast that had us down to like negative four.
(24:02):
So like it's just like I really want to be out in the sun outside on the trail.
And I want to I want to go hiking.
I want to I want to be outside doing something.
So I know we got to start at least planning our next one, because maybe that'll give us
like a scratch that it's just a little bit to at least start planning it, you know.
(24:24):
Right.
Right.
So we got to pick a spot and figure out where to go.
Yeah.
I mean, just all around it, I mean, we can we can talk all day long about just like how
it makes you and I feel there are a lot of positive mental things that you can get from
just not even like you don't even have to put a pack on.
(24:45):
I mean, just go walk in a trailer or go walk outside.
Oh, for if you if you can get away from the noise of the city or noise of I mean, my little
town has a main highway going through it.
Like if you can get away from that, like and just get out in the woods and that's all you
can hear is like the woods and maybe like the splash of like a fish in the water or
(25:07):
something like that.
Nothing better.
Well, and I'm not like I'm not one of these people that quote unquote meditates.
Right.
I'm not I don't I don't take that time to to sit and, you know, reflect and all that
sort of stuff, which don't get me wrong.
I probably should.
We're saying nature does all these things for you.
(25:28):
So it probably would be good to try to do that on my own.
So I agree.
But when you're out on the trail, like when we stop at a scenic overlook or have this
like view of a river before we descend down this steep hill down to it or you're we fortunate
(25:52):
enough to walk along Lake Superior on a few of our trips, right?
You know, which is just if you've never seen Lake Superior, it is just a gorgeous, gorgeous,
giant lake.
Right.
It's the closest thing that I can think of.
Like when we when we take those pause breaks to just like stop and look and admire nature,
(26:17):
I feel like that is as close to meditating or being like one with nature.
I don't know what the word is that I'm searching for, but like it is so nice to be so connected
with this beautiful scenery where it's quiet and peaceful and usually fairly untouched
(26:39):
by people and the places that we're going because you're you're so far away from, you
know, quote unquote civilization.
That for me is like, you know, I feel like it's like meditating, even though it's not
I'm not specifically trying to meditate.
That's the feeling that I get.
And it's just like, wow, this is amazing.
(27:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Once you stop and reflect, because I mean, there's a time during this like, yeah, I've
seen this before, you know, whatever.
But
I like it.
Right.
Yeah.
But like when you get to those spots where, yeah, it's like you said, it's not meditating.
But once you just step back and you kind of just like not having out of body experience,
but like just think about how tiny you really are compared to like, OK, you see Lake Superior
(27:26):
on a map and you're like, OK, it's a big lake.
But like once you're right next to it, you like realize like, OK, Canada is supposed
to be over there.
But right.
It's like water as far as you can see.
Right.
Mike and I Mike and I both lived in Michigan our entire lives.
And every time we see one of the great lakes, it's like, are you sure that's not the ocean?
(27:47):
Right.
You can't see across it.
Are you sure that's not the right every other lake?
I know I can see across it.
Right.
I know.
Yes.
One other thing that I wanted to touch on, and I don't know if you had this on your list
or not, one of the surprising things to me, bringing it back to like mental health type
(28:10):
stuff, right?
One of the surprising things to me that I discovered getting into hiking, we've talked
before about like the first time you and I were at a community firing.
Oh, yeah.
Or had to like do that whole experience.
Right.
When you and I started this, I never in any part of my brain imagined that there would
(28:35):
be like a community or social aspect to hiking.
Like I really thought it was going to be you and I out in the middle of nowhere, just you
and I.
Right.
Like pretty much all of the time, which I was good with.
Don't necessarily want to be around other people.
I was shocked the first time you and I were kind of like forced into interacting with
(29:00):
the hiking community, like face to face.
Right.
I was surprised how much I enjoyed that.
Yeah, me too.
I'm not normally a people person or a crowd person or anything like that.
So when it was like, quote unquote, forced upon us to go interact, you know, it was just
like, oh, man, like, OK, the norm, this like the stresses of everyday life is coming right
(29:25):
back because like now I got to go, you know, we got to do something.
And then it was just like everybody introduced themselves and, you know, and then it just
became came naturally.
It was just like, so where are you guys going to?
Because you all have that one thing in common where you're out in the middle of nowhere.
One is going this way.
(29:47):
Couple of you're going that way.
Like it's just everybody has a story to tell and everybody's thrilled to share it and everybody's
thrilled to hear your story.
So it's it's super awesome.
And like it's a whole nother high in itself right there is when you get to share those
experiences, share those experiences, hear what other people have done, get recommendations
(30:11):
from other people.
You have complete strangers cheering you on in your physical and emotional and spiritual
journey.
Like all these people out doing the same thing as you wanting to hear what your story is,
wanting to talk to you, wanting to interact with you.
(30:33):
That is not something I ever like sought out when we started doing this.
Once you and I were forced into that situation for the first time, like I kind of almost
can't wait for it to happen again.
Right.
Right.
Like am I OK if it's just the two of us at a campsite?
Sure.
Especially if it's at a federal campground where there's a lot more people.
(30:53):
But when you're out in the middle of nature and like there's four or five campsites that
are around there.
Am I excited to be like, yeah, I hope like there's actually a few more camp people out
there like you kind of want to have those, you know, share those stories and everything.
So it's a whole other thing to look forward to out there as well.
Yeah.
I mean, just for anybody that maybe feels, you know, disconnected or maybe like you're
(31:18):
out of place or don't have, you know, other people in your life that are interested in
the same things as you.
If this hiking, backpacking, whatever you want to call it, is like your jam, you will
find other people like minded out on the trail.
Oh, absolutely.
It's just like a great feeling to talk to people.
(31:40):
You and I, like I keep saying, we've been doing this for about five years now.
I have not met a single asshole out on the trail.
No.
No.
Everybody has been super nice.
It will happen eventually.
Don't you think, Ron?
Sure.
Eventually we are going to run into somebody that we just do not mesh with for one reason
or another.
But like thus far, everybody we have interacted with has been so positive, so welcoming, so
(32:06):
willing to share their knowledge.
Oh yeah.
They want to give you recommendations like, oh, if you like this trail, have you tried
this one?
Oh, have you tried this one?
Have you gone over here?
Like everybody wants to share their experience with you.
Oh, and everybody wants to hear your experience.
Yeah.
Well, everybody's going to, I mean, they're going to share some gear tips or whatever.
(32:30):
Like you might be struggling with your camp stoves or whatever.
Like everybody's got different equipment, so everybody's going to get to see the pros
and cons in real life of what one works better for who.
And that's, you know, like we met that ultra lighter the one time they had the super light
tent and everything.
Like she was like, go check it out.
(32:50):
It's over there.
So I'm like being nosy Nellie and I'm just like looking in her tent.
Like all this stuff.
But we met the guy that had the different camp stove than us.
And I was like, oh, we were looking at that camp stove.
What do you think?
Do you like it?
This is the one that we got.
You know, like all that sort of stuff.
I mean, it could end up costing you money because you'd fall in love with a tent or
(33:11):
a new backpack or whatever that can happen.
But it's but you'll feel really good about it.
Yeah.
I mean, I just it's I just can't say enough.
Like how much the sense of community.
Yeah, there is such a sense of community out there.
Like it is.
Everybody has just been so nice.
(33:31):
And again, coming from somebody that did not want to interact with other people out there.
Right.
That was just a total shock to me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Here we are to enjoy that part of people.
Turns out every every show we ask you to write in and all that kind of stuff, we're actually
(33:55):
trying to interact with other people.
I know.
But when it's when it's about all this, it makes me feel good and I enjoy it.
So the only other thing that I really wanted to talk about, did you have anything about
more about that sort of stuff that you wanted to talk about?
No, I think I think my lists are pretty much run dry.
(34:18):
OK, so the only other thing that I had on my list, which didn't really fit into any
of the categories that we've specifically talked about, is just I mean, we've we've
said it before on other episodes about, you know, being out where your cell phone doesn't
work and being out, you know, away from civilization and all that sort of stuff.
(34:41):
But like there is actual proven by scientists, not by Shawn and Mike, benefits of like being
away from your cell phone, being away from your computer, being away from a TV.
There is actual measurable, positive, mental, emotional benefits of being away from your
(35:05):
technology.
Now, I say that knowing that I have in other episodes talked about how much of a gadget
nerd that I am.
So I understand that I am somewhat contradicting myself, but it's largely when Mike and I.
I know I am a little bit of a hypocrite.
(35:25):
You're right.
When I say that.
Knowing that most of the places or a lot of the places that Mike and I go.
Yes, I am bringing my cell phone to like track my steps or to track my GPS router or whatever.
But realistically, I'm not on Facebook when I'm out there.
I'm not on TikTok when I'm out there.
I'm not on Blue Sky when I'm out there.
(35:48):
Like you don't got enough data signal to get any of that stuff to work.
I feel better.
Like the first day I'm a nervous Nellie because it's like, oh, I can't text people.
I can't get a phone call.
I can't get all those things.
Right.
But like once you accept that that is your reality, God, is it nice not to have technology
(36:09):
like this.
It almost makes you not want to go back to the hustle and bustle of everyday life.
Like 100 percent.
Like the fry.
I remember the first time coming out of the when we came out of the Porky's and we got
in the truck and we were headed back towards civilization.
I think we got like a couple miles out of the park and I was just like, I kind of want
to go back.
(36:30):
Like, I don't really want to.
We hit like we had a line, an invisible line, and it was like, oh, we got cell phone signal
again because like your watch started digging.
My phone started digging.
It's like, yeah, I don't miss that sound like it had been a couple of days since any of
those sounds had happened.
(36:51):
And it's like, yeah, it's like we go back.
You don't realize when you're in the middle of it and like you have technology on you
all the time.
You don't realize how much that stuff really does interrupt you constantly.
And when you're just literally will not work, it's scary at first, but it gets nice real
(37:13):
quick.
Right.
In.
Right.
It is.
It's funny to be able to notice how much technology is interfering with your daily life to have
that drastic cut off.
And we're not talking of like you're driving through a town or whatever that has horrible
(37:34):
cell signal or whatever and you lose it for a little bit.
Like right.
That that's that's a pain in the ass because you're that's when you're trying to look stuff
up.
Right.
And you're talking like multiple days.
Yeah.
Like, OK, well, you know, like we've talked, we've tolerable process before we leave home.
It's like, OK, this is where we're starting.
We will check in if we can.
(37:55):
But if not, if we haven't called you by Monday at noon, then start to worry.
Right.
Like four days later, if you haven't heard from us, then you can start to worry.
But like we might not be able to get a hold of you for the right four days.
Sometimes it does piss me off when we have cell signal out on the trail.
For sure.
Yeah.
(38:16):
I'll put it on do not disturb just because I don't want to hear it.
Like, I know here for a reason.
I know.
So.
I mean, there's for sure benefits of not having those things digging at you or vibrating or
all the things constantly.
Yep.
Yep.
Everybody that needs to know knows I'm not available.
(38:38):
So if they need to reach me, they can wait till Monday at noon.
So that's all I have.
I mean, if you've never tried it and you're thinking about trying it, go try it.
It's definitely going to put your mind in a better place.
(38:59):
And I mean, unless you really, really hate it, which I'm sure there are some people that
do really, really not enjoy nature and not enjoy the outdoors or whatever.
Well, I'm sure they're not listening to this, then.
Well, a correct.
We're probably not listening to this if nature has no appeal to them whatsoever.
(39:21):
But if you've been thinking about doing it, go out there and do it.
Break that barrier and just and just do it.
It's it's nice if you're not doing it for like the physical health aspects of it.
If you at all think that it is like something you'd be into for mental health reasons, go
(39:44):
try it.
I mean, just go try it.
Absolutely.
If you're at all thinking it might be up your alley, it probably is.
Yep.
And I as much as Mike and I have, we always just say that we really love hiking.
We really enjoy it.
Really it's the mental health part of it that I think is really the part that you and I
(40:05):
enjoy.
Yeah.
You know, I'm not going to lie.
There are times where we get in a half mile and I'm like, that's only a half mile and
we got six more to go.
I know there are times where that crosses my mind.
But once you hit a certain threshold, they talk about a runner's high.
Yeah, I've never hit a runner's high as a runner maybe once.
(40:27):
But I definitely have hit a hiker's high to where you can.
Yeah, you just in nature, you just looking forward to the next step and just keep going.
If there's a lot of bullshit and a lot of uphill, downhill, all that kind of stuff,
it can be a little bit more treacherous.
But once you've done it and once you complete that uphill, you look down and you're like,
(40:47):
I just did that.
That sense of accomplishment of just like, I made it up that hill.
I can keep going and do this.
That's exactly what I was going to say.
That sense of accomplishment, like even last summer when you and I went on our hiking trip
and it rained for like two straight days and all of our stuff was wet and it was like colder
than we ever would have imagined for August.
(41:10):
You're wet, you're cold.
You just can't have a fire.
You're not even comfortable at night when you go to sleep.
We were miserable for a couple of days.
Even when we got done with that, I felt so good and so accomplished and like proud of
us.
I still came out of there feeling so much better than I did before we started.
(41:37):
The thing that I'm not saying the only thing that got me through it because I mean, I wasn't
going to quit or anything like that.
One thing that I kept thinking while we were out there doing that is just like, this is
another story to tell.
This is another experience that I've gotten to have that again, less than 1% of the population
gets to experience.
(41:59):
It's just so many things that like I did this and I didn't quit.
There's just that again, it comes back to the sense of accomplishment of just like,
I didn't give up, I did this.
Was I a little bit miserable?
Did we have to sit in our tents for most of the day?
Sure.
(42:20):
But at the same time, sitting in a tent and listening to it rain and nature and everything
is a lot more calming and a lot more relaxing than being stuck in your house because it's
four degrees outside and all you have is TV.
I mean, boo hoo, we have TV.
We've got something to entertain us, but it's so much nicer just to listen to the rain
(42:41):
and you can talk to each other through your tent walls.
It turns out they're not soundproof.
What's the old adage about fishing?
It's like a, or maybe it's a golfing.
A bad day golfing is better than a good day at the office or something like that.
I feel like this is the same sort of thing.
Yeah, for sure.
(43:02):
So anyway, that's all I got on my list.
You got anything else on your list?
No, I think that's all I've got.
If you have experiences that are things that, or other mental health benefits that you can
think of or that you have experienced in the past with all of this, let us know.
(43:24):
We're always looking forward to hear those positive stories and even if you have some
negative ones too, we're happy to hear them.
So let us know we're not alone with the not so happy ones too.
Yeah.
And you can do that by reaching out to us on email, which is shawnmikehike at gmail.com.
You can always reach us on our website, which is shawnmikehike.com or on all of the major
(43:46):
socials at shawnmikehike.
Please write, review, subscribe, share your favorite episode with a friend.
And until next time, go take a hike.
Yeah, and enjoy it.
We'll see you guys in a couple weeks.
I'm Shawn.
(00:03):
And I'm Mike.
And you're listening to Shawn and Mike Take a Hike.
Welcome to another episode of Shawn and Mike Take a Hike.
What are we talking about today, Mike?
Today we talk about the mental health benefits of being in the backcountry and hiking in
(00:29):
general, getting away and what it does for you mentally rather than just physically like
we've talked about in the past.
Yeah, I know.
We talked quite heavily about like how good for your body or bad for your body depending
on your personal activity level is.
(00:50):
But yeah, no, I mean, for sure mental health.
It's like, yeah.
We had a whole episode on how to prepare to be on the trail and stretches and exercise
and things like that.
But this is there's also a whole mental aspect to it, too.
So, well, for sure.
I mean, I know we've talked like in passing or briefly on previous episodes about like
(01:12):
how much we love being out there and how great it is to get away from civilization and how
great it is to be where like your phone might not even work.
Right.
And like all of those things are true.
But there's like actual proven mental health benefits from all of those things.
I mean, literally, hopefully I'm not jumping the gun here, but like literally just being
(01:36):
amongst nature is good.
Oh, yeah.
So how like they've done studies about that.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's I mean, that's pretty much the biggest one that I have found is just just
getting away from the daily grind and being out back where you don't hear that constant
buzz of electricity or whatever.
(01:58):
Like once you just get out there and you hear the silence and hear just birds chirping or
a squirrel ruffling in the leaves or whatever, it's just like so nice and relaxing.
Well, and the funny thing is like you and I even like we're not city folk necessarily
even.
Right.
We're very much like solid suburban or like maybe even a little further out than suburban.
(02:25):
Like it's not like we aren't familiar with grass and familiar with trees and stuff, but
even to just go that extra step.
Right.
Being out in the middle of nowhere.
You get away from the highways and the airplanes flying overhead constantly type thing.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
So before we get too deep into this, I think it should go without saying, but I feel like
(02:50):
we should say it anyway.
Neither one of us are qualified medical professionals and or scientists.
Right.
Or any kind of therapist or whatever.
We are none of that.
This is just two regular guys talking about what we find the mental health benefits to
(03:11):
be from being out on the trail.
Right.
For sure.
I feel like you should get that out of the way up front so that nobody could call.
This is not medical advice, people.
This is just two guys talking.
Good, good call.
So where do you want to begin with this one?
I mean, it's your deal.
(03:31):
So you tell me where you are.
So well, I mean, the biggest thing that I guess I find for me is just the amount of
stress reduction that this tends to bring.
I'm a pretty anxious person.
I tend to have a lot of daily stresses and anxiety and things.
So do I stress a bit when we're planning our trips?
(03:54):
Sure.
You know, all these kinds of things like coming to it just because I need to make sure I got
all the right, you know, I'm taking the right amount of food and not too much anymore.
I'm taking the right amount of clothes, but not too much.
Like, you know, just all those kinds of stresses that go into it.
So as soon as you get basically as soon as I get in the car and there's no more preparing,
(04:15):
quote unquote, you get in the vehicle and you're headed to the trail, then it's just
like, all right, we're on our trip.
The only thing stopping us now is we just got to get there.
And that's not where my stress ends because I stress the whole way there.
I'm like, are we sure we can park where we're going?
Are we going to be able to find the trailhead?
(04:36):
What's the weather going to be like?
Are we sure we looked up the weather in the right spot?
Like until we're actually out there, I'm a ball of stress until we're actually out there.
Oh, yes.
Yeah.
So as we're in the vehicle, I'm just I'm just I'm fine with it.
That may be a little bit more go with the flow than I am on that.
So but realistically, like once you get out, especially like I guess the combo of us, like
(04:58):
once we get out there and we're on the trail, a different stress happens because you need
to make sure you find your camps and campsite and all that kind of stuff.
But that's the fun of it.
It's like, OK, we're at waypoint a we're at our starting point and we just got to get
to here.
And there's a trail that takes us there.
So I know, like as you're talking, I'm like, man, that's all kind of stressful, too.
(05:21):
But like it's a different type of stress.
It's not your daily.
It's not your, oh, I got these voicemails.
I got to return or, oh, I got to get back to somebody that emailed me about something
or I got this door shipped out.
Like, it's not that stress at all.
It's like it's stress, but in a fun way, like in a relaxing.
(05:43):
Like being out there for me, I'm not going to say like my my like inner lizard person
or whatever doesn't get like amped up from being out in nature, like in a in a hyper
alert type of way or whatever.
But like it's not that tightness in your chest that you get from like your day to day life.
(06:06):
Right.
Yeah.
And I mean, that's just that's just it is is getting it having a different stress, I
think, is just all in general, the feeling of it.
And it's been proven, like you said, that just being out in nature like reduces stress.
It lowers your cortisol levels is what it does, and it just promotes you to relax, which
(06:30):
when you get to your campsite, I mean, you're tired from biking for over, you know, for
so long.
But it's like you like you just kind of sit there and it's like almost immediately.
It's like, man, like I get to sleep like lay here and listen to this and sleep like immediately.
Like, well, I mean, I think that like that tiredness that you get from being out there
(06:54):
right like that walking so much the we've talked before about like how you kind of watch
your feet and you're trying not to trip and you're paying attention to where you're at.
Like you're you're almost so focused on just the hiking aspect of it, like while you're
actually on the move.
Right.
You're so focused on that aspect that your mind kind of can't wander like it really the
(07:21):
type of person where you're thinking about a million things all the time.
Like that's causing stress in your life.
What I find when I'm out there, I almost am so focused on what I'm doing that I don't
have the capacity to let my mind wander to all those other things.
Right.
Which for me relieves some of that daily stress.
Like that's one of the things I like about being out there is my mind does not wander
(07:44):
in the same way that it does when I'm, you know, if I'm working on a report, but then
my mind wanders to this voicemail that I got to get back to and then that wanders to like
this other project that I should get started.
Right.
I'm almost too exhausted when I'm on the trail to let my mind wander about those things.
(08:04):
Not even exhausted.
I mean, you're just you're just ultra focused on falling down.
Yeah.
You maybe could focus a little bit more on probably.
But then even even with all that, you get like all of your, you know, your birds chirping,
your squirrels running and frolicking, your deer walking by your stream in the background.
(08:27):
Like people pay 99 cents for an app that will give them that to fall asleep to.
Right.
Like this is the real life version of that.
So even I don't know if you call that white noise.
I don't know if you call that brown noise.
I don't know if you call that green noise.
I don't know what noise that nature sound, what category that falls into.
(08:48):
But like literally people pay for machines that will replicate that sound because that
sound alone is so calming.
Yeah.
Well, and I mean, like you said, people pay by those white noise machines or whatever,
you know, like to have that done.
So yeah, I mean, it's hard to say what it'll do for each of the listeners just because
(09:11):
everybody reacts differently to every situation and everything.
But these are just things that tend to happen.
So but yeah, I mean, the stress reduction is the big one for me.
Just like I said, I live a pretty stressful and anxious life.
(09:33):
But then I mean, even on top of that, like just your it's it's exercise.
It's not exercise, but it's exercise.
Right.
So like, I mean, you everybody's heard about like, oh, these are the mental health benefits
of exercising like it, you know, getting your heart rate up and getting your your pulse going
like that releases endorphins, which again, do I have any idea what endorphins are?
(09:55):
No freaking clue.
But they're a hormone.
This does all those things that you're like going to the gym would do for people.
Right.
I'm not the type of person.
I don't want to go to a gym.
Right.
Like I don't want I don't want to do all those things.
Like I have no desire to go and like lift weights at the gym and you know, which if
(10:15):
you do, I mean, good for you.
I'm not saying that I'm just not that type of person.
This hiking gets me all those things that those people get from going to do that activity.
But in a in a setting that I enjoy.
Right.
Yeah.
And I mean, for me, too, I mean, what I find like going with the
(10:39):
going to the gym and everything is that when you after you do a workout or after you do
that, you like once you complete your your trail or, you know, you get to your your destination
and everything, you have that sense of accomplishment that you did that like 100 percent, you know,
like so you just all of a sudden once you get there, you're just like, boom, like this
(11:00):
this huge rush hits you of, hey, I'm done.
I'm done hiking for a bit.
But B, it's like we just we just tackled six and a half miles.
Yeah.
And in a part of the world that only one percent of the world is ever going to see if that
if that you and I talk about that when we're out on the trail all the time about how I
(11:24):
mean, partly, let's be honest, part of the reason that you and I like to go hiking is
like bragging rights.
Like, like I did this and you didn't.
Right.
I mean, it's not a great reason to go, but it works for me.
But I mean, you're right.
Like a fraction of human civilization has ever seen.
(11:44):
Right.
The things that you and I come across out on the trail and the sense of accomplishment
that you get when you're done, like whether it's whether it's three miles or six miles
or 10 miles or 12 miles or one mile or whatever your range is.
If that is a long way for you, you feel so good about being done with that.
(12:05):
Yeah.
Well, even if it's not necessarily a long way, but that's the goal you set and that
you accomplish that.
That's that it's an amazing feeling.
And then, I mean, just being at your destination that you're tearing down, setting up camp,
whatever.
It's just it's such a different task list than you have in your regular life is just
(12:26):
so it's like it's not hard to get out of bed because, you know, get up.
I'm at camp.
I'm on the outdoors.
Yeah.
You know, so well, and you almost like I mean, talking about getting up out of bed, like,
let's be honest, I don't love getting up out of bed in my personal life.
I don't love getting up out of bed at camp.
I really don't like I love being in bed.
(12:46):
But there's like, I don't I don't even know how to explain it.
But like when I wake up in the morning at camp and it's, you know, seven o'clock in
the morning and the birds are chirping and the sun's coming in through the tent and all
those things.
And then on top of that, I'm thinking, all right, I got 10 miles to go today.
Like I can't just lay here and be all warm and comfortable and exhausted.
(13:13):
Like I've got to get up.
Like I have a task that needs done that I have to accomplish today.
Like even just that like daily goal I feel like is good for my mental health to have
that have to get this done today thing.
Right.
Yeah.
I mean, like you said, you can't just like like laying there is not going to accomplish
(13:34):
the goal.
It doesn't suck when it's like, I don't know, 40, 50 degrees outside.
You're in your sleeping bag all nuzzled and warm.
Like, yeah, it sucks.
But you got to do it.
Yeah.
So we already talked about sleep quality.
It is proven to enhance your sleep quality, getting out there, exposure to nature and
(14:01):
natural elements and lighting.
It helps regulate your circadian rhythm.
I never knew that until I started researching for this.
Makes sense.
I do not know what that is.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
Your circadian rhythm, from what I understand, is more or less your, you get sleepy when
it gets dark out.
(14:22):
It gets you start waking up naturally as it gets light out.
So OK, so like your clock type thing.
Yeah.
It kind of helps reset your internal clock.
It doesn't when we're only out there for a few days, we're not going to get a whole reboot,
things like that.
But those that are going out, you know, doing the whole North Country Trail or, you know,
(14:43):
out for months at a time.
Yeah, they're going to get a sense of what time of day it is just by how light out it
is and everything.
So OK.
Well, and just being out in the sunlight, I mean, let's be honest.
I mean, not even not even that it's like sunny all the time, but just being outside in natural
light versus being cooped up in artificial light all the time.
(15:05):
Florescent lighting or whatever.
Yeah.
Like even just that portion of it is good for you.
I mean, presumably even on cloudy days, you're getting a little bit of vitamin D, I would
assume.
And supposedly vitamin D is good for like anxiety and depression.
So I mean, I think that kind of goes along with what you were saying, like, OK, you're
getting your your animal clock good because of the time of day you're getting that like
(15:32):
natural light like animals are supposed to get like all of that has got to be good for
you.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, we're not supposed to be.
I mean, I can't say we're not supposed to because we built a life to where we are cooped
up indoors, but, you know, you go back however many years and people were 90 percent of the
(15:55):
time outside working and outside surviving rather than just sitting at an office chair
and at a computer.
Yeah.
You know, so.
But even even going into like.
I mean, we kind of touched on planning and stuff a little bit earlier.
But for me, it kind of goes to like the same thing that I've talked about, like where you're
(16:18):
getting you're setting a goal and you're doing a goal that day.
But like even even the planning of your hike before you're actually even going to do the
hike.
For me, I I'm the type of person that I like to have something in my life to look forward
to.
Right.
Yeah.
That gives me if I've got nothing planned for the next six months, it's like every day
(16:41):
is a drag.
You know what I'm saying?
Right.
But so even just like the actual planning aspect of our hikes, which I know we talk
about a lot, but I find the planning to be fun in a nerdy way.
I mean, you and I have talked about how nerdy we get with planning.
But like even just that part, I think is good for my mental health.
So I'm getting I'm getting to have fun doing something nerdy, which I enjoy doing.
(17:07):
Right.
And that also gives me something to look forward to down the road, which boosts my.
I don't even know what you call it, because it's like it's not like I'm depressed all
the time or whatever, but it gives me.
It gives you like some reason to get up and go and keep moving forward and stuff.
I mean, but like I said, not like it makes it sound like you're depressed and you need
(17:29):
a reason to do stuff.
But like it helps like it.
And even even the planning, like it's almost like a puzzle.
Like when we sit there and we're like, OK, how we're going to where can we start and
then how far can we get that day?
And does that get us to water?
No, it doesn't.
OK, let's get this different route then.
(17:49):
Or maybe let's start at this other trailhead.
Like there's there's all the people that do Sudoku or Wurl or all those like puzzle games.
Right.
I feel like planning our hikes for me scratches the part of my brain that those puzzles probably
scratch for those people.
(18:10):
Yeah, it's a big logistic problem type of deal.
I'm a big nerd and love logistic problems.
But yeah, that's exactly what it is, because you need to have water or a campsite or you
got to have you have to figure out we only want to do this average mile distance.
(18:30):
How do we fit that in with all of the amenities or all of the things that we need for when
we get to camp and everything?
So yeah, right.
You're exactly right.
It basically it is a math problem.
Yeah, it's a math problem.
I don't want to call it a math problem because I don't love math.
But it's like, you know, it's like if if you left on a train leaving Denver at, you know,
(18:50):
it's like one of those story problems and it really is like fitting all the pieces together
because you and I usually when we're planning, at least it's like, OK, we've got five days.
So we need to pick somewhere that we can drive to hike and drive back from in that five day
period.
Where can we go?
Does it have water?
(19:12):
Can you do all the things like I don't know, I just find that part of it really fun.
And then when we're out there on the trail and actually doing the hiking, it's like,
OK, how close were we to what we planned?
Right.
How good did we get it?
Well, that's the other thing, too, is like when we're on the trail, there's that through
(19:33):
all of our planning and everything.
We'll get to our campsite and we'll be like, you know, it said it was going to be about
four and a half miles for this day or whatever.
And it will be like four point six or four point six or whatever.
And I was pretty damn close, like, you know, like we're pretty getting a lot better at
this planning thing.
We were knowing more exactly how we're getting way better.
(19:54):
How far it's going to be.
Yeah.
So well, and then that gives you like.
Not to like oversell it, but it gives me at least.
Like a competence boost.
Right.
Right.
Like, OK, this is this is what I figured.
This is how close or maybe how far off I was.
(20:16):
But like this is like we were just saying, like I'm getting a lot better at this.
Like I'm developing a skill which makes me feel good about myself and makes me feel like,
yeah, I do kind of know what I'm doing now.
Right.
Yeah.
So you feel like that.
There probably are some of those people, especially if you live closer to a trail, to where you
(20:38):
hike the same section or whatever, numerous times to where you just got your gear and
you you're like, OK, I want to go hiking tomorrow.
So you just pack your pack and away you go.
Sure.
And there's not a whole lot of planning it that that's involved with it.
But for those of us that are minimum of, you know, two hours away from the trail, it takes
(20:58):
a little bit more effort to figure out where you want to go this time, because you don't
want to drive two hours and end up in the same spot every time.
Correct.
So so we got to find a new place to go.
We got to see what amenities are out there.
So our overnight trip, it'll be a drive there, hike, drive back.
(21:20):
That will all take to, you know, the planning of that is probably three or four, like four
hour conversations of like, how are we doing this?
Probably takes 12 hours to just to.
I know, but it probably takes us 12 hours because we're really about overly nerdy about
it and down to the like, well, what type of food are you taking for the first day?
(21:45):
What are you taking for the second day?
And I feel like we might get a little excessive with it.
But I do feel I mean, I do feel like we have accomplished something over the last five
years from where you and I started five years ago.
(22:08):
Like it was roughly this time of year, five years ago, we were like, all right, we're
we're going to do this and just like figure it all out.
So like, I do feel fairly proud of us.
And like, there's something to be said about like setting out, making yourself a goal and
then accomplishing that goal.
(22:28):
Like not not just the miles or not just the being able to do it, but like you and I five
years ago were like, we're going to start hiking and we've done it and like pretty successfully
and like enjoy doing it and haven't gotten majorly hurt or majorly lost and feel like
we know what we're halfway doing now.
(22:49):
And that makes me feel good about ourselves.
Like it's like, yeah, this is something that neither one of us really know how to do.
We figured it out and that makes you feel good about yourself.
Yeah, and I mean, it's nice when I mean, OK, you spend all this money for to buy all this
gear and everything and you get out on the trail and your gear actually the stuff that
you just bought actually works or works the way you wanted it to know better feeling that
(23:14):
or like you've had it for a few years.
You take it out, you've got that little bit of like maybe it is time to replace it or
whatever, but it holds through like there's that feeling and everything it does.
It does suck when it doesn't work, but but when you still got it.
But there's always that like looking forward to that next piece of gear to like, you know,
I just got that new tent, haven't set it up, haven't like really fully looked at it yet.
(23:39):
But you know, just have known that I've got a few new pieces of gear that I got for Christmas
and everything that is just like really making me look forward to and that's that's to keep
my my positive mental block of thinking like going because like I miss the trail.
It's winter time in Michigan.
It's just we're all cooped up indoors.
We just had that Arctic blast that had us down to like negative four.
(24:02):
So like it's just like I really want to be out in the sun outside on the trail.
And I want to I want to go hiking.
I want to I want to be outside doing something.
So I know we got to start at least planning our next one, because maybe that'll give us
like a scratch that it's just a little bit to at least start planning it, you know.
(24:24):
Right.
Right.
So we got to pick a spot and figure out where to go.
Yeah.
I mean, just all around it, I mean, we can we can talk all day long about just like how
it makes you and I feel there are a lot of positive mental things that you can get from
just not even like you don't even have to put a pack on.
(24:45):
I mean, just go walk in a trailer or go walk outside.
Oh, for if you if you can get away from the noise of the city or noise of I mean, my little
town has a main highway going through it.
Like if you can get away from that, like and just get out in the woods and that's all you
can hear is like the woods and maybe like the splash of like a fish in the water or
(25:07):
something like that.
Nothing better.
Well, and I'm not like I'm not one of these people that quote unquote meditates.
Right.
I'm not I don't I don't take that time to to sit and, you know, reflect and all that
sort of stuff, which don't get me wrong.
I probably should.
We're saying nature does all these things for you.
(25:28):
So it probably would be good to try to do that on my own.
So I agree.
But when you're out on the trail, like when we stop at a scenic overlook or have this
like view of a river before we descend down this steep hill down to it or you're we fortunate
(25:52):
enough to walk along Lake Superior on a few of our trips, right?
You know, which is just if you've never seen Lake Superior, it is just a gorgeous, gorgeous,
giant lake.
Right.
It's the closest thing that I can think of.
Like when we when we take those pause breaks to just like stop and look and admire nature,
(26:17):
I feel like that is as close to meditating or being like one with nature.
I don't know what the word is that I'm searching for, but like it is so nice to be so connected
with this beautiful scenery where it's quiet and peaceful and usually fairly untouched
(26:39):
by people and the places that we're going because you're you're so far away from, you
know, quote unquote civilization.
That for me is like, you know, I feel like it's like meditating, even though it's not
I'm not specifically trying to meditate.
That's the feeling that I get.
And it's just like, wow, this is amazing.
(27:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Once you stop and reflect, because I mean, there's a time during this like, yeah, I've
seen this before, you know, whatever.
But
I like it.
Right.
Yeah.
But like when you get to those spots where, yeah, it's like you said, it's not meditating.
But once you just step back and you kind of just like not having out of body experience,
but like just think about how tiny you really are compared to like, OK, you see Lake Superior
(27:26):
on a map and you're like, OK, it's a big lake.
But like once you're right next to it, you like realize like, OK, Canada is supposed
to be over there.
But right.
It's like water as far as you can see.
Right.
Mike and I Mike and I both lived in Michigan our entire lives.
And every time we see one of the great lakes, it's like, are you sure that's not the ocean?
(27:47):
Right.
You can't see across it.
Are you sure that's not the right every other lake?
I know I can see across it.
Right.
I know.
Yes.
One other thing that I wanted to touch on, and I don't know if you had this on your list
or not, one of the surprising things to me, bringing it back to like mental health type
(28:10):
stuff, right?
One of the surprising things to me that I discovered getting into hiking, we've talked
before about like the first time you and I were at a community firing.
Oh, yeah.
Or had to like do that whole experience.
Right.
When you and I started this, I never in any part of my brain imagined that there would
(28:35):
be like a community or social aspect to hiking.
Like I really thought it was going to be you and I out in the middle of nowhere, just you
and I.
Right.
Like pretty much all of the time, which I was good with.
Don't necessarily want to be around other people.
I was shocked the first time you and I were kind of like forced into interacting with
(29:00):
the hiking community, like face to face.
Right.
I was surprised how much I enjoyed that.
Yeah, me too.
I'm not normally a people person or a crowd person or anything like that.
So when it was like, quote unquote, forced upon us to go interact, you know, it was just
like, oh, man, like, OK, the norm, this like the stresses of everyday life is coming right
(29:25):
back because like now I got to go, you know, we got to do something.
And then it was just like everybody introduced themselves and, you know, and then it just
became came naturally.
It was just like, so where are you guys going to?
Because you all have that one thing in common where you're out in the middle of nowhere.
One is going this way.
(29:47):
Couple of you're going that way.
Like it's just everybody has a story to tell and everybody's thrilled to share it and everybody's
thrilled to hear your story.
So it's it's super awesome.
And like it's a whole nother high in itself right there is when you get to share those
experiences, share those experiences, hear what other people have done, get recommendations
(30:11):
from other people.
You have complete strangers cheering you on in your physical and emotional and spiritual
journey.
Like all these people out doing the same thing as you wanting to hear what your story is,
wanting to talk to you, wanting to interact with you.
(30:33):
That is not something I ever like sought out when we started doing this.
Once you and I were forced into that situation for the first time, like I kind of almost
can't wait for it to happen again.
Right.
Right.
Like am I OK if it's just the two of us at a campsite?
Sure.
Especially if it's at a federal campground where there's a lot more people.
(30:53):
But when you're out in the middle of nature and like there's four or five campsites that
are around there.
Am I excited to be like, yeah, I hope like there's actually a few more camp people out
there like you kind of want to have those, you know, share those stories and everything.
So it's a whole other thing to look forward to out there as well.
Yeah.
I mean, just for anybody that maybe feels, you know, disconnected or maybe like you're
(31:18):
out of place or don't have, you know, other people in your life that are interested in
the same things as you.
If this hiking, backpacking, whatever you want to call it, is like your jam, you will
find other people like minded out on the trail.
Oh, absolutely.
It's just like a great feeling to talk to people.
(31:40):
You and I, like I keep saying, we've been doing this for about five years now.
I have not met a single asshole out on the trail.
No.
No.
Everybody has been super nice.
It will happen eventually.
Don't you think, Ron?
Sure.
Eventually we are going to run into somebody that we just do not mesh with for one reason
or another.
But like thus far, everybody we have interacted with has been so positive, so welcoming, so
(32:06):
willing to share their knowledge.
Oh yeah.
They want to give you recommendations like, oh, if you like this trail, have you tried
this one?
Oh, have you tried this one?
Have you gone over here?
Like everybody wants to share their experience with you.
Oh, and everybody wants to hear your experience.
Yeah.
Well, everybody's going to, I mean, they're going to share some gear tips or whatever.
(32:30):
Like you might be struggling with your camp stoves or whatever.
Like everybody's got different equipment, so everybody's going to get to see the pros
and cons in real life of what one works better for who.
And that's, you know, like we met that ultra lighter the one time they had the super light
tent and everything.
Like she was like, go check it out.
(32:50):
It's over there.
So I'm like being nosy Nellie and I'm just like looking in her tent.
Like all this stuff.
But we met the guy that had the different camp stove than us.
And I was like, oh, we were looking at that camp stove.
What do you think?
Do you like it?
This is the one that we got.
You know, like all that sort of stuff.
I mean, it could end up costing you money because you'd fall in love with a tent or
(33:11):
a new backpack or whatever that can happen.
But it's but you'll feel really good about it.
Yeah.
I mean, I just it's I just can't say enough.
Like how much the sense of community.
Yeah, there is such a sense of community out there.
Like it is.
Everybody has just been so nice.
(33:31):
And again, coming from somebody that did not want to interact with other people out there.
Right.
That was just a total shock to me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Here we are to enjoy that part of people.
Turns out every every show we ask you to write in and all that kind of stuff, we're actually
(33:55):
trying to interact with other people.
I know.
But when it's when it's about all this, it makes me feel good and I enjoy it.
So the only other thing that I really wanted to talk about, did you have anything about
more about that sort of stuff that you wanted to talk about?
No, I think I think my lists are pretty much run dry.
(34:18):
OK, so the only other thing that I had on my list, which didn't really fit into any
of the categories that we've specifically talked about, is just I mean, we've we've
said it before on other episodes about, you know, being out where your cell phone doesn't
work and being out, you know, away from civilization and all that sort of stuff.
(34:41):
But like there is actual proven by scientists, not by Shawn and Mike, benefits of like being
away from your cell phone, being away from your computer, being away from a TV.
There is actual measurable, positive, mental, emotional benefits of being away from your
(35:05):
technology.
Now, I say that knowing that I have in other episodes talked about how much of a gadget
nerd that I am.
So I understand that I am somewhat contradicting myself, but it's largely when Mike and I.
I know I am a little bit of a hypocrite.
(35:25):
You're right.
When I say that.
Knowing that most of the places or a lot of the places that Mike and I go.
Yes, I am bringing my cell phone to like track my steps or to track my GPS router or whatever.
But realistically, I'm not on Facebook when I'm out there.
I'm not on TikTok when I'm out there.
I'm not on Blue Sky when I'm out there.
(35:48):
Like you don't got enough data signal to get any of that stuff to work.
I feel better.
Like the first day I'm a nervous Nellie because it's like, oh, I can't text people.
I can't get a phone call.
I can't get all those things.
Right.
But like once you accept that that is your reality, God, is it nice not to have technology
(36:09):
like this.
It almost makes you not want to go back to the hustle and bustle of everyday life.
Like 100 percent.
Like the fry.
I remember the first time coming out of the when we came out of the Porky's and we got
in the truck and we were headed back towards civilization.
I think we got like a couple miles out of the park and I was just like, I kind of want
to go back.
(36:30):
Like, I don't really want to.
We hit like we had a line, an invisible line, and it was like, oh, we got cell phone signal
again because like your watch started digging.
My phone started digging.
It's like, yeah, I don't miss that sound like it had been a couple of days since any of
those sounds had happened.
(36:51):
And it's like, yeah, it's like we go back.
You don't realize when you're in the middle of it and like you have technology on you
all the time.
You don't realize how much that stuff really does interrupt you constantly.
And when you're just literally will not work, it's scary at first, but it gets nice real
(37:13):
quick.
Right.
In.
Right.
It is.
It's funny to be able to notice how much technology is interfering with your daily life to have
that drastic cut off.
And we're not talking of like you're driving through a town or whatever that has horrible
(37:34):
cell signal or whatever and you lose it for a little bit.
Like right.
That that's that's a pain in the ass because you're that's when you're trying to look stuff
up.
Right.
And you're talking like multiple days.
Yeah.
Like, OK, well, you know, like we've talked, we've tolerable process before we leave home.
It's like, OK, this is where we're starting.
We will check in if we can.
(37:55):
But if not, if we haven't called you by Monday at noon, then start to worry.
Right.
Like four days later, if you haven't heard from us, then you can start to worry.
But like we might not be able to get a hold of you for the right four days.
Sometimes it does piss me off when we have cell signal out on the trail.
For sure.
Yeah.
(38:16):
I'll put it on do not disturb just because I don't want to hear it.
Like, I know here for a reason.
I know.
So.
I mean, there's for sure benefits of not having those things digging at you or vibrating or
all the things constantly.
Yep.
Yep.
Everybody that needs to know knows I'm not available.
(38:38):
So if they need to reach me, they can wait till Monday at noon.
So that's all I have.
I mean, if you've never tried it and you're thinking about trying it, go try it.
It's definitely going to put your mind in a better place.
(38:59):
And I mean, unless you really, really hate it, which I'm sure there are some people that
do really, really not enjoy nature and not enjoy the outdoors or whatever.
Well, I'm sure they're not listening to this, then.
Well, a correct.
We're probably not listening to this if nature has no appeal to them whatsoever.
(39:21):
But if you've been thinking about doing it, go out there and do it.
Break that barrier and just and just do it.
It's it's nice if you're not doing it for like the physical health aspects of it.
If you at all think that it is like something you'd be into for mental health reasons, go
(39:44):
try it.
I mean, just go try it.
Absolutely.
If you're at all thinking it might be up your alley, it probably is.
Yep.
And I as much as Mike and I have, we always just say that we really love hiking.
We really enjoy it.
Really it's the mental health part of it that I think is really the part that you and I
(40:05):
enjoy.
Yeah.
You know, I'm not going to lie.
There are times where we get in a half mile and I'm like, that's only a half mile and
we got six more to go.
I know there are times where that crosses my mind.
But once you hit a certain threshold, they talk about a runner's high.
Yeah, I've never hit a runner's high as a runner maybe once.
(40:27):
But I definitely have hit a hiker's high to where you can.
Yeah, you just in nature, you just looking forward to the next step and just keep going.
If there's a lot of bullshit and a lot of uphill, downhill, all that kind of stuff,
it can be a little bit more treacherous.
But once you've done it and once you complete that uphill, you look down and you're like,
(40:47):
I just did that.
That sense of accomplishment of just like, I made it up that hill.
I can keep going and do this.
That's exactly what I was going to say.
That sense of accomplishment, like even last summer when you and I went on our hiking trip
and it rained for like two straight days and all of our stuff was wet and it was like colder
than we ever would have imagined for August.
(41:10):
You're wet, you're cold.
You just can't have a fire.
You're not even comfortable at night when you go to sleep.
We were miserable for a couple of days.
Even when we got done with that, I felt so good and so accomplished and like proud of
us.
I still came out of there feeling so much better than I did before we started.
(41:37):
The thing that I'm not saying the only thing that got me through it because I mean, I wasn't
going to quit or anything like that.
One thing that I kept thinking while we were out there doing that is just like, this is
another story to tell.
This is another experience that I've gotten to have that again, less than 1% of the population
gets to experience.
(41:59):
It's just so many things that like I did this and I didn't quit.
There's just that again, it comes back to the sense of accomplishment of just like,
I didn't give up, I did this.
Was I a little bit miserable?
Did we have to sit in our tents for most of the day?
Sure.
(42:20):
But at the same time, sitting in a tent and listening to it rain and nature and everything
is a lot more calming and a lot more relaxing than being stuck in your house because it's
four degrees outside and all you have is TV.
I mean, boo hoo, we have TV.
We've got something to entertain us, but it's so much nicer just to listen to the rain
(42:41):
and you can talk to each other through your tent walls.
It turns out they're not soundproof.
What's the old adage about fishing?
It's like a, or maybe it's a golfing.
A bad day golfing is better than a good day at the office or something like that.
I feel like this is the same sort of thing.
Yeah, for sure.
(43:02):
So anyway, that's all I got on my list.
You got anything else on your list?
No, I think that's all I've got.
If you have experiences that are things that, or other mental health benefits that you can
think of or that you have experienced in the past with all of this, let us know.
(43:24):
We're always looking forward to hear those positive stories and even if you have some
negative ones too, we're happy to hear them.
So let us know we're not alone with the not so happy ones too.
Yeah.
And you can do that by reaching out to us on email, which is shawnmikehike at gmail.com.
You can always reach us on our website, which is shawnmikehike.com or on all of the major
(43:46):
socials at shawnmikehike.
Please write, review, subscribe, share your favorite episode with a friend.
And until next time, go take a hike.
Yeah, and enjoy it.
We'll see you guys in a couple weeks.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.