May 16, 2025 • 33 mins
#221 In this week’s episode, we are sharing part two of our tips for being a psychology major! I am once again joined by my friend (and fellow psych major at UPenn!) to discuss even more things you absolutely need to know about majoring in psychology in college. We share more of our expert advice on topics including:
+ how important your grades really are
+ what extracurricular activities we’d recommend
+ greek life, making friends, & FOMO
+ getting funding & grants for psych research
+ writing your senior thesis
+ having your research published as an undergrad
+ working on posters & papers
+ why you should attend psych conferences
+ networking as a psych major
+ how to make your CV stand out
+ applying for graduate schools for psychology
+ what we were glad we did as psych majors…
+ …& what we wish we did differently
Olivia’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/olivia.nicastro/
MENTIONED
+ Psychology major advice pt. 1
+ Olivia’s LinkedIn
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Sheeper Assisted, theGen.
Z mental health podcast. I'm your host, Sadie Sutton.
Let's get into it. What do we wish we had known in
freshman year? What am I supposed to be doing?
What? Extracurrulars do you do in
college? Am I like wasting my college
years? What are you glad you did as a
psychology major? What do you wish you would have
done differently? Hello, hello and welcome.
Back to Sheeper assisted. If you listen to Part 1, you
(00:21):
know that Olivia and I are both psychology majors at the
University of Pennsylvania, graduating this week, and we sat
down to give you guys all, all of our advice and insights on
what it's like to be a psychology major.
What we loved, what we didn't, what we wish we did differently.
What we would absolutely do over.
Again, and how you can set yourself up for success in this
(00:41):
major in college. If you want to listen to Part 1,
the link is in the show notes. This is part.
Two of. This conversation, and because
it's a long one, we will just goahead and dive right in grades.
How important are grades? How much should you care about
your GPA? We have different schools of
thought here. I feel like yeah.
And it also really depends on the school I think.
(01:03):
Yes. And what you wanna do?
Yeah. I would say you're in major.
GPA is more important than your non major.
Like if you're getting bad grades in all your site classes,
it's hard to explain that like you're interested in this thing
and they should take you on as agrad student.
Yeah, if you don't do well in those classes.
If you tank like your linear algebra class, I feel like
that's not forgive you as important as you tanked abnormal
psychology. Yeah, I would agree with that.
(01:25):
I don't think it B is the end ofthe world.
I've gotten quite a few BS in college.
Will you have to make up for that in other areas of your
Graduate School applications? Yeah, you would need a really
good GRE. You would need lots of research
experience. I have the podcast, so it's a
cost benefit analysis. What are your thoughts?
I'm anal with my grades. This.
(01:47):
Is why I like. This Yeah.
You know, I don't know where it came from.
I've always been anal with my grades, even in high school, so
I feel like I do think grades are really important to me.
It also made me feel a little bit better when I was applying
to grad school because I felt like I had a little bit of a
cushion. I did not take the GRE because
it was optional and I felt a little bit about the decision
because of my grades. But I do think it depends if you
(02:08):
are going to grad school they are going to look at.
Your GPA. If you're applying to jobs, I
don't think it matters nearly asmuch.
So I think. You're going to pencil.
Yeah, I think it really depends on what you want to do.
I think that's really important,what you said, which is that it
matters to you, I think, not just doing research because you
should, not just taking calculusbecause you should.
(02:29):
I'm doing quotes, not just getting straight A's because you
should. Does it make sense and is it
worth the investment for your goals?
And I'm not saying fail all yourclasses don't, but like are you
going to be so stressed out and so burnt out and have no work
life balance in pursuit of an A in that Spanish class or like
(02:50):
whatever. And I honestly like went into
college thinking like I'm going to four O, obviously.
I did not go into college with that goal.
I I just, I think I, I'm just very much like high expectations
for myself to a point where it'sa deficit sometimes because when
the first time I got an A -, I was distraught.
And I just, I catastrophize so much.
(03:11):
I convince myself that if I don't have a four O, like my
career is over. No ones gonna let me to grad
school. No ones gonna hire me.
Which is completely untrue, obviously, because no one is
graduating with a four. Oh yeah, maybe you are.
Congratulations if you are. We're so proud.
And I don't know anyone who is. What extracurrulars did you do
in college and how did you thinkabout?
(03:32):
Approaching those, I was very eager coming into college.
Like I remember the club fair like my freshman fall.
I was like, I don't think I. Even knew that was happening.
I signed up for a lot more clubsin action end up doing and
having a time for, but it ended up like being my main clubs were
I was an associate editor for the law Journal, which is
(03:53):
nothing to do with psych, but clubs is where you, you know,
explore those interests. And this is another side note,
but I think it looks good on your CV to say that like I am
not just a psychology student, like totally person.
I have other interests. I don't need to do only psych
things. I don't need to do only
research. But anyways, yeah, so I did
that. I'm president of the Penn
(04:13):
Undergraduate Psychology Society.
Love pups? This is why Liv is here.
She's a spokesman of the. Department of the of the the
PUPS team, I through the StudentHarm Reduction Coalition, I've
done like clinical volunteering at Penn Presbyterian Medical
Center. What does that mean?
So clinical volunteering. Like what do you do?
Me I So individuals will come into the hospital for various
(04:35):
reasons. It doesn't have to be substance
use related, but they all have asubstance use disorder in
common. So we are just volunteers.
We go in, we talk to them. We're just like an ear honestly,
because you know, they have so many people coming in and
checking on their like doctors and nurses, but those are busy
people. They can't sit and listen to a
patient's grievances as much as they probably would like to, but
(04:56):
that's all we do. We sit and we listen.
Like, what are you not satisfiedwith with your care?
Like, what have you felt like? Have you been mistreated?
Do you feel like you've been stereotyped?
Because there is a lot of that, obviously, even in a place like
Philadelphia at Penn, where substance use is very common in
the city. And you'd think that there's a
little bit more care amongst, like, healthcare workers.
(05:17):
And there isn't always that. So we're just, you know, we
bring them snacks, bring them coffee.
We bring them clothes or like shoes if they're going to rehab
after they get discharged from the hospital.
But yeah, I love it. That's a really good example of
a way that you could get clinical experience to
understand if that's what you want to do as an undergrad.
Yeah. Did you do anything else, like
random activities, how you spendyour free time?
(05:39):
I think she's a Jelly cat collector.
I'm not really, no. I think you have a lot of Jelly
cats. I'd like to OK does that have
one as a collector? Yeah, I think so.
That's two. OK, Jelly.
Enthusiast. I do.
I am definitely a maximalist, that's for sure.
Like just in life. Just like in my spaces, like I
love, you know, like you see my room, like I love stuff.
Got that from my mom. So something really funny is I
(06:03):
applied to write for the Daily Pennsylvania in every single
semester that I. Which is our student newspaper.
Yes, and I was denied multiple occasions and then a message
came into my groupie one day andit was like taking summer like
opinion columnists, no one will be cut.
And I was like, it's my time to shine.
This is it did. You get it for.
Me, yeah, because they literallythey were not cutting anyone.
So I wrote like a couple pieces for like the newspaper, which
(06:24):
again like not psychology related, but like I knew that I
wanted to do it and. Yeah, yeah.
I will say I describe my collegeas like choose your own
adventure experience. And the implications of that is
that I have no chords. For graduation, that's fair.
So like you, again, this is a cost benefit analysis.
(06:44):
I do not look back on my collegeexperience being like, I should
have been in that club. Like I'm really happy with what
I've done in college. And your path might not look
like someone else's. So you have to remind yourself
and ask yourself when you chooseto do these things.
So when you guys see my grand photos.
It's a little. Barren happening.
There's no courts. Yeah, I feel like I like threw
(07:05):
myself into school and just, yeah.
But I've always been like that where I've school has been like
the center of my universe. I don't really do anything
outside of school, honestly. Like, I that sounds sad, but
like if it's not school, you know, it's a club or if it's
doing research. So I feel like I don't know.
Yeah. I did hear that I could get a
cord from Gutman for living in this.
(07:26):
Oh yeah, I got that. One so I think.
I'm that's another thing I will like take every cord opportunity
like I got like a quest bridge cord, even though like I was a
finalist, but I did not match topen and so I was like I was in
request for it. So I'm getting the cord A. 100%
yeah I tried to rush a pre health Greek life rat didn't get
in. I think I didn't even make it
past the first thing. They did not want me I.
(07:48):
Had come and depend not knowing if I wanted to rush and then I
found out how much it cost to bein a sorority and it immediately
was cut because it's like thousands of dollars a semester
and it's just not feasible for I.
I feel like I struggled to, like, really find my group of
people. Yes, because I wasn't doing a
lot of structured things, which I was fine with.
Again, I don't look back, but itwas something I had to be more
(08:10):
intentional about. So I really wanted to rush.
I really wanted to be a sorority.
I tried to rush twice, didn't make it both times.
I still need to do an episode about that.
It's because it was humbling. Yeah.
It was humbling, yeah. I cried a lot.
I like didn't rush, but I was cut from my high school
volleyball team so I feel like. I got it, yeah.
So I tried to rush Greek life. That didn't work out.
(08:31):
I tried to rush the pre health frat, that didn't work out.
I was in active minds for a bit and I was technically a board
member with like marketing and communications.
I for one semester wrote some things for her campus.
They're like blog. I was in Service Dog Club.
That is the best club that I've done at Penn.
(08:52):
They had this golden retriever named Fred, who someone on
campus was raising and I got to walk him twice a week.
I would go and walk this golden retriever and I would get my dog
fixed and had like consistent access to a dog who was.
Consistent access to a dog. Specifically a golden retriever.
I loved that. That was like one of my favorite
things. Here's what I found for her
(09:13):
campus. Like I was like, OK, I'm
interested in like the media dissemination communications
piece of things I was writing like stocking stuff for gift
guides and it felt like work I was doing that wasn't benefiting
where I wanted to go. I found that the podcast was a
much more effective way for me to have that IP and further that
interest, and I feel like it wasreaching me towards my career
(09:35):
goal of being a psychologist. Same thing with Active Minds, I
was helping them with their social media, these weekly
meetings. While it was like you got to
meet people, it was additional work that again, I didn't feel
was helping me get towards my goal and spending that time
instead on the podcast or research was more effective.
So now I'm really be careful on like the things that I'm saying
(09:58):
yes to. Is this directly helping me with
my next goal or is it for fun? Because I do lots of things for
fun. I've been needlepointing
recently. I do diamond painting.
I read a lot, I watch a lot of TV.
I'm very tapped in online. So it's like, is it for fun?
But if it's a work commitment that's going to take energy from
me, how is that helping me move things forward?
(10:21):
And I wouldn't say this approachis for everyone because you kind
of have to have something to show for it if you're not doing
clubs, yes. And so I.
Agree. And because you have the
podcast, I feel like it's not. But if you just decide not to do
clubs and not to do anything andyou're like.
Yeah, you have to be like here I've I instead use this time for
this thing. And here's what has come of that
(10:41):
investment of time. I also have a social media
marketing agency called WaveformSocial, which I've used to
subsidize the podcast and research and like as a side
hospital to have some income because I taught myself how to
edit and market and do video andsocial media for the podcast.
And so now I do that for other people as a way to like make a
little bit of money. And also it's been a great
experience as far as like I've managed people and I know how to
(11:04):
do cold emails and networking and all the business type of
stuff. So that's kind of what I did in
college. Again, it's a cost benefit
analysis. I see all these people taking
their grad photos with like all of these chords and they know
all these people and they're in all these societies.
And I'm like, I didn't do that. But also you have to ask
yourself, like, would I have wanted to do that?
(11:25):
College is so much FOMO. It is so much FOMO.
For me especially, it was like social FOMO more than like
academic FOMO. I feel like I threw myself into
academics so hard. Actually, story before my
grandmother heard it on the podcast, she sent me a birthday
cake my freshman year and I didn't have anyone to share it
with. That's actually I'm going to.
Cry, I know. It, it's hard.
(11:45):
I, I feel like you see these people going on these
extravagant spring break trips with their 20 girlfriends and
it's like #1 I can't afford to go on a spring break.
Trip. Yeah, I went home every.
Year for spring break. Me too.
I don't have 20 sorority girls. No behind me, I don't know if I
know 20 girls at but no just kidding, I do but like not that
well, not. To go on a trip, Yeah.
And it's like I felt so like, Ohmy gosh, am I like wasting my
(12:08):
college years. This is the time you're supposed
to be having so much fun. And I also, so I don't drink,
which is a huge, I mean, you know, like college is.
I drink like one time a semester.
Yeah, it's very drinking heavy, especially Penn, the party Ivy.
I feel like drinking is a huge part of the culture.
And so I felt like out of place.I was like, I didn't want to be
(12:29):
going to frats. I don't want to be getting
drunk. What am I supposed to be doing?
How am I supposed to make friends?
And honestly like I made my closest friends through classes
which is like crazy especially my Italian class like that's
where I met most of my friends take.
Italian. So does that mean we're not?
Friends. So my friend group I would say
is like from Italian, but I alsohave a lot of individual and I
(12:49):
feel like I always wanted like acore group where all of my
friends were just in one group and it's just not feasible.
Yeah, like it's just not. And honestly, I feel like that's
one thing that people get FOMO with is they don't have that
friend group for like a group Halloween costume that's
stressful, that's FOMO or like at the same time.
Picker because it's like, let's say you're like annoyed.
You don't want the drama. You don't wanna have no one else
(13:10):
you can turn to. It's like you wanna friend
options, yeah? So like truly sit with what
would it be like if I only had one friend group?
And do you want that? Yeah, I have one more thing to
say. Extracurricular activities,
volunteering, get into your community, break out of like.
I didn't call it the. Pen bubble where it's like pen
(13:30):
students get this in their mind that like they're in
Philadelphia, they need to stay on campus they can't leave the
campus or they. Think the pen campus is
Philadelphia and that's not yes.And like, some of my favorite
experiences was I was volunteering with the Everywhere
Project, which is like a nonprofit harm reduction
organization. And it was so invaluable to like
actually go in a Center City every week and like hand out
like clean syringes, clean needles, things that like.
(13:54):
For drugs? Yeah.
For drugs. For clarifying yeah, I'm like
really interested in harm reduction now because of that
and how, you know, we're I don't.
Know if they were also needle pointers, so I had to clarify.
Needle pointers. I'm kidding.
Wait. I don't even know what that
means. Like, you know, my sewing
project. I'm doing, yeah.
I'm actually handing out like sewing needles and yarn for the.
Knitters, I'm not funny. No, it was.
(14:15):
Funny, it was funny. But like that's where I got my
like main interest of like doingharm reduction was because
obviously I'm interested in doing a conviction research and
part of that comes with treatment.
And as like a field we're movingaway from, abstinence is key.
How do we make it so individualsthat want to use drugs can use
them safely? And that's something I'm really
(14:37):
interested in. And I got interested in that
because of my volunteering. And it's just been so nice to
like break out of the Penn campus sometimes and interact
with people that are not at Penn.
OK, quickly going through some like research related things
that are very confusing, fundingand grants.
Yeah, a really quick overview here is that there will be
options for you to get funding or get a grant.
It's small, it's tiny. Like it's probably like $500 a
(15:00):
$1000 to go to a conference or work on a research project over
the summer. A lot of the times it's related
to lab work you're already doing.
You don't need funding and grants.
But if you're already doing research, apply to those because
it's great for your CV to be able to say I got funding, I was
able to do the application to request funding.
So being aware that that's an option and something that you're
(15:22):
qualified for is something I wasn't aware of until this year
and I wish I did more. Yeah, especially if you are
volunteering, like you said, fora research lab, look to see if
your university provides like, especially over the summer.
If you have to like stay in yourcollege town and you're not
getting student housing, like check to see if there's a way
that you can get funding from your school for those the like
(15:42):
free work you're doing. That's what Ivy said.
My sister at Duke, there were options to get funding for her
to work not at Duke and do research over the summer.
She didn't do it early enough, but like so those options do
exist and be aware of them. The funding might also not go to
you, it might go to your lab, but it's a great thing to be
able to put on your CV. So definitely keep an awareness
(16:03):
of that. Writing a thesis.
I would say most schools have some kind of a thesis or a
longer term project. A lot of them it's probably like
related to an honors program. At least it is at Penn.
Definitely do a thesis if you can.
It's a great experience. It helps you understand what
your research interests are. Doing the statistics
independently is really, really valuable.
(16:25):
I would say ideally by the time you're in your junior year,
you've identified what lab and mentor you'd want to do a thesis
with. So you're able to like be in
that lab. They know you, you have a little
bit more of a say about what your thesis is going to be on
and then you're writing your thesis.
I would say try and find a thesis mentor that makes line
item edits and gives you a lot of feedback.
(16:47):
That's one thing that Angela Duckworth said like last week or
the week before, and I was like,that is so true, which is that
at our age in academia as baby undergrads, what we need is
feedback, feedback, feedback andlots of revisions.
And trying to find that in a mentor at this stage is very
important. If you can ask your professor or
your mentor, is there an option that this could be adjusted and
(17:11):
edited and we could potentially submit this for publication
somewhere. They might not suggest that, but
especially if your findings are significant, ask.
The worst thing they can say is no.
Yeah, Posters, papers and getting published.
You hear? You have to get published.
You should be working on papers.What is a poster?
I didn't even know. Gosh.
(17:31):
So we had to do posters for our research symposium within the
department. I think of it as just like a
very brief version of your paper.
Like you split it the same way you would split up a paper with
like visual introduction, the methods, the results.
But it's different in that it's less word heavy and a lot more
like figure heavy. Like you want someone to look at
your poster and and see right away like what this is like.
(17:52):
You don't want them to have to read like 3000 lines of text to
figure out what you're doing. And you also probably will only
present like 1 aspect of it or the significant findings, the
paper you report everything. Yeah, the poster, everything.
From your paper into your poster, yeah.
And that's OK. So a poster is like a visual
representation of a research. Finding a paper is like a long
(18:13):
term version of that. You want to get posters in
undergrad, Finding a lab where the undergrads are working on
posters. Also, your first poster, if you
have the option to work with like a post back and they can
also help scaffold that process.If you can get published as an
undergrad or work in a lab whereyour contributions are
significant, that you get authorship for what you're
(18:34):
doing, that's really helpful. But these are the ways that
people can quantify and measure your experience, I guess I would
say. But you.
Probably won't be a first authorpublication paper on an
undergrad if you are. I'm so impressed.
That's like crazy amazing. Wait, you're doing that though
for your thesis, right? For my thesis right now, yeah.
(18:56):
Olivia's, but it's. Probably not going to be
published till I'm graduated. But still very cool.
But yeah, just like asking it like, are these things that
happen in the lab? And like, is there structure and
support for those is super helpful.
Yeah. Conferences.
We talked about this briefly. I love conferences.
I remember getting to ADAA or the Anxiety and Depression
(19:16):
Association of America conference.
And just like, goosebumps. Like, I found my people.
Yeah. Like this is what I'm going to
be in my career, this is it. And it's basically like 3 days
of talks about research and concepts in psychology.
And it's also where research is presented.
So like if you work on a poster,sometimes you'll present it in
an undergrad context or like something for school.
(19:39):
But it's really great to presenta poster at a national
conference because you have to apply and get it accepted.
And it's just such a fun experience.
If you can go to a conference especially and get funding for
that conference like bucket listitem as an.
Undergrad yes definitely and when you go like be prepared
know who's going to be there know who you want to talk to
like when we went to the. Association to do an episode
(20:02):
about just conferences. I know like when we went to the
Association for Behavioral and Cognitive Therapies, like I, you
had a lot more people there thanme, but like.
We tried to find our grads for the Pi like.
We knew who we were going to be applying to for grad school, and
so we just like tried to find them.
Just to introduce yourself. I like went up to someone in the
lobby and was like. I like you don't know.
I know you. You will see my name soon in
(20:22):
application. Yes.
So yeah. And just getting to know also,
like if you see someone is in their lab, I mean it's one of
their students, talk to them. Too go up to them, yeah, 100%
follow them on Instagram, be like what did you like?
What did you not like? And they're so nice networking.
Yes. I would say the most successful
networking relationships I've had, the ground rule is that
(20:46):
like you have to provide value to them and then they will help
you out. It's like I scratch your back,
you scratch mine. And so maybe that's volunteering
in their lab, maybe it is working through work study or
helping them with data collection.
I have been able to get mentors that work tougher to crack and
not at pen or not do I don't work in their labs through the
(21:09):
podcast and providing value withlike I can help you edit videos
or with social media or you can come on the podcast.
So just being aware of like whatvalue first, what value are you
providing to them? And then what do I hope to get
out of this? How can they support me?
I would also say as far as networking, a lot of the times
this is with the context of likea long term mentorship
(21:31):
relationship. You want a letter of
recommendation for a future job or a program you're applying to.
You should be keeping a running list of all the responsibilities
and ways that you've helped thatperson and positive feedback
you've gotten. Yes, because.
A lot of the time, which I was shocked you will write your own
letter recommendation. Even though you checked the
thing on the website being like I've never seen this before.
(21:53):
Yes. But it's industry standard to
write your own and then they edit it, yes.
So you need to know what you didbecause you are literally the
one who's writing it and. So that means what programs you
were doing, how much data you were cleaning, how many hours
you did, how? Many participants were in the
study like. Would say like other networking
introduce yourself to anyone asklots of questions.
I would say in person like aboveall else is the mentorship or
(22:17):
networking relationships that have actually come to fruition
and really being like, how can Iprovide value?
Because even though academia is not like a famous person like
these people are spread, then they have a lot of inbound
requests coming and it will get lost.
Yeah. And don't bombard them with a
book that you have written on ane-mail.
Introduce yourself one sentence as to what you're interested in,
(22:39):
what you're like, hoping to get like do you want like a
volunteer position or whatever. And just like maybe attach your
CB probably if you have one, butlike do not write like I loved
your paper on this, this, this, This is why like they don't,
they don't want it. They don't want to hear it.
Like they have thousands of emails coming in.
Make it short and sweet. And I would also say if it's a
(23:00):
cold e-mail, you can really quickly tell the mentors you'd
want to work with because they reply shockingly fast.
Yes. They'll be like, oh, so sorry
you don't have an option, but nice to meet you.
Yes. And you're like, Oh my God, that
person's like, so highly published and cool.
Like, yes. So that's also a good telltale
sign. I'll post on Instagram or Tiktok
a sample cold pitch e-mail that people can do.
That's good. Some quick questions.
(23:22):
What do we wish we had known in freshman year?
Psychology is synonymous with research.
Even if you eventually want to do clinical, yeah, you can avoid
it, and understanding how the research process works and at
what stage you're in that process and then how to get
involved. I think a CV, I didn't know what
a CV was. I didn't know I needed one.
(23:42):
Even if you have nothing on yourCV, I want you to start your CV
today and put the high school you went to list the relevant
classes you're taking. Who are your references?
Even if you don't format it justlike I just have a running list
in my phone split by year of like this is every class I took
freshman year, every club I was in, everything I do because even
if. You end up editing it, but just
(24:03):
he won't. But you'll sit down to write
your CV your senior year and you're gonna be like.
What would I be crying? It took me hours to go back
through and be like, oh, I gave that one random talk at that one
random high school on Zoom. What was the name?
What was the date? What was the high school?
Literally anything you do as is,like if you get money, if you do
an interview for something, if you, if you get it down, if you
(24:26):
have a skill that you learn, if you take a licensing thing like
city licensing for a lab, if youwork on an IRB study, if you're
added to the IRB, write it down.Everything down every.
Single coding language you like.Write it down, it'll make your
life. So much.
Ridiculously easy. And all these things, another
(24:47):
Angela Duckworth learning shouldbe done with an example.
You should never try to DIY something from scratch.
So you should be asking Google and ChatGPT.
Give me an example of an undergraduate psychology CD.
Give me an example of a cool. Person because I not exactly
based mine off the pen one, but like that's where I got because
I mean when I first started writing ACVI was like you see
(25:08):
these things on. We didn't even say what ACV was.
Curriculum Vitae. I didn't know how that was how
you say it. It's probably saying it a
really, really long resume that's only used in academia and
this is the Bible. Like you are your CV.
Like professors will have like 90 page CVS, Yeah, yours is not.
Going to it's like it's quantifying your experiences and
when you apply for jobs, when you work in labs, when you maybe
(25:31):
even like our thesis, we might have submitted ACV.
This is what they're looking at.And so that's why it's important
to update it and edit it. And I was like holding my
sister's hand through the CV process because I have been
telling her like, as soon as possible get involved in
research. She's doing it the summer as a
freshman, which like head of theher, her like really, I get
credit for that because she wouldn't even know if I hadn't
(25:52):
told her. But yeah, it's not a resume.
You're going to want to see examples.
It's a really strange format andyou're going to want to have
like professors and PhD studentslook at it and give you
feedback. And ignore the like like graphic
design people that say it shouldbe flashy.
No, it should be like. I see so many of that where it's
like, you know, they're tired ofreading the same black and white
(26:14):
CV this is. Not a resume.
No, they're not. It should look like everyone
else's. It literally should be.
No color, no graphics, no crazy fonts like.
APA style? Yes, make it.
Professional looking, Yeah. Yeah.
With Graduate School applications, I feel like when I
first started thinking of applying, there was a lot of
(26:35):
pushback with everyone in my life.
And like professors, it's not common that you apply.
We both applied our senior year,which most people don't do.
They take a couple years to workand then they apply.
And so I received a lot of, you know, I don't think you should
do this. I had a lot of doubts about it
but I firmly believe if you think you have a chance you
(26:57):
should do it because like literally why not?
Like yes, it is time, yes it is money, but you're increasing
your chances if you apply twice than if you apply once.
I also think applying to grad school gave me the structure and
scaffolding to successfully get a post back job because I.
(27:18):
Already had my CV. I had my CVI, understood what
labs I wanted to work at. I understood what what research
experiences I needed, where the gaps were.
I practice interviews. I knew how to present myself.
Like, I give credit to getting apost back for the fact that I
did all that work through grad school, and I have no regrets
for that reason. Yeah, except for that it costs a
(27:40):
lot of money. Yes.
And unfortunately I, if I had, you know, perfect hindsight
2020, if I knew the situation offunding, maybe I would not have
applied. But you just never know.
Well, no, you never know. And so unfortunately that did
affect a lot of things this year.
But I just recommend that like, if you think you have a chance,
(28:00):
like, go for it. Yeah, and no one knows your
application like you do, and especially these mentors and Pis
who are working with like 50 people in their orbit.
Be honest with yourself. Yeah, like I was being told, you
know, like, not that I don't have a chance, but like pretty
much that. And then, you know, we both got
interviews and then would have gotten offers if the funding was
(28:25):
not the situation. No, I was just waitlisted.
She would have gone. So I like would have gotten in,
you know what I mean? Like I would have gotten in this
semester if the funding was not get pulled, was not pulled.
So it's like I would have been successful this year and I if I
had listened to everyone who I talked to, I wouldn't have
applied. So I feel like just listen to
yourself, like you, no one knowsyou.
Like, you know you if you think of a chance like, take that
(28:46):
chance. OK, what are you glad you did as
a psychology major? Like what would you do again?
Everything. OK.
There's OK that. Was really specific, I would say
getting involved with research, working in multiple labs so I
could diversify my experiences, building relationship with my
(29:08):
mentor, starting my network. As an undergrad, your network is
everything, especially for grad school, because they're getting
hundreds of applicants, and if they recognize your name or your
mentor, you have a better chancethat they'll read your
application. Yeah.
Like I even had a professor who I had like emailed before I
applied just introducing myself.And then when I did apply, he
emailed me back. He was like I was looking for
(29:29):
your name in the applications because I remember you emailed
me. Like definitely I recommend
doing that like emailing becausethey they will remember.
Totally. And it also like from the other
side of the table, like it showsinitiative, it shows
demonstrated curiosity. It's not about the fact that you
emailed that might not go anywhere.
It's the fact that you like. It's the skills that it shows
(29:50):
you are willing to advocate for yourself and introduce yourself
and network and you know what your goals are and what you
want. Advocating for yourself is huge.
Yes. What do you wish you would have
done differently? I wish I would have started
research earlier. I don't think I started it too
late, but I think I just didn't understand how important it was.
And I really enjoy working in labs, so I wish I would have
(30:10):
done that earlier. And then the other thing is, I
think rather than focusing on like, what more experiences do I
need? How can my current experiences,
how can I get the most out of them?
So like, if you're already doingresearch, is there a grant that
you can get for the research you're already doing?
If you're already working on a thesis, can you submit it for
publication? You're already working on a
thesis. This can that also be a poster
for a conference? So I wish I would have known.
(30:32):
You can apply for grants and awards and of like a lot of the
times it doesn't pan out. But if you've already done the
work, why not like see if you can get the most bang for your
buck in these other areas? I would say, yeah, I look at the
resources that your university offers, whether it's like
psychology related or not. I mean like I got like a free
laptop. From Penn really like for.
(30:53):
Being first generation low income students.
Like they literally gave me a laptop.
Do you get to keep it? Yeah.
Oh, my God, That's so great. I know.
And just like looking at the resources that you are being
offered to, you really, like, take advantage of that.
Yeah. Because you're not gonna get
these same resources when you graduate.
The second you're out of here, they're not gonna give you
anything. Yeah.
Yeah. Any last parting advice to the
(31:14):
baby psych majors? God, it's the best.
I love being a psych major, especially when I talk to other
majors. I'm like, we have it good.
It's not stressful or like, yeah, at least at this stage.
So incredibly competitive. It's so interesting.
Generally the mentors are great.I think the classes are very
digestible, very like able to behandled.
(31:37):
I think the brunt of like psychology is what you're doing
outside of your classes, like doing your research, being
involved in clinical volunteering.
I agree. So yeah, you will be busy, but
it's not going to be necessarilyfrom your classes.
Yeah, I think, I think that was what I didn't understand going
in, and I hope that's the one thing people take away, is that,
like, if you want a career in psychology, undergrad is going
(32:00):
to be not about the classes you took.
It's going to be about what, like you said, what you did
outside of the classroom. Well, Olivia, thank you for
coming on. She persisted.
Will this go on your CV? I'm so honored.
Of course it's going on my CV. I'm posting on all my socials.
Yes. It's going to be my personality
for a while. I love it.
I'm so excited we got to twin Alice.
If you're listening and watchingbecause she said she was going
(32:22):
to shout out We love you. If you guys have more psychology
questions, like if you want an episode on like conferences or
any of these other areas, because we did talk a lot, but
there was also like so much to say and there's not a road map
and the road maps that there are, like we have an example of
a grad school guidebook. It's dense, so hopefully.
(32:45):
This was. Digestible.
Yeah. All right, Well, thank you for
being here. If you liked the episode, share,
leave a review, post on social media, send to a friend or
family member. Thanks for listening you.
Can drop my e-mail I'll. Yeah, we'll put it.
Yeah, we'll put it in the the show notes.
Instagram hand, whatever you usually do.
I will give. As reply to my DMS.
OK. I will put everything there.
(33:06):
If you guys have a question for Olivia, like yeah, if you want
to get involved in addiction research.
Or love addiction research. She is your girl.
If you want to get involved in like psychology.
On campus clubs also defer to Olivia.
OK, bye, bye. If you enjoyed this episode, if
she persisted, make sure to leave a review, subscribe and
(33:27):
share with a friend or family member.
Follow along at at She Persist, a podcast on TikTok, Instagram,
YouTube, and more for bonus content.
Thanks for listening and keep persisting.
Welcome to Sheeper Assisted, theGen.
Z mental health podcast. I'm your host, Sadie Sutton.
Let's get into it. What do we wish we had known in
freshman year? What am I supposed to be doing?
What? Extracurrulars do you do in
college? Am I like wasting my college
years? What are you glad you did as a
psychology major? What do you wish you would have
done differently? Hello, hello and welcome.
Back to Sheeper assisted. If you listen to Part 1, you
(00:21):
know that Olivia and I are both psychology majors at the
University of Pennsylvania, graduating this week, and we sat
down to give you guys all, all of our advice and insights on
what it's like to be a psychology major.
What we loved, what we didn't, what we wish we did differently.
What we would absolutely do over.
Again, and how you can set yourself up for success in this
(00:41):
major in college. If you want to listen to Part 1,
the link is in the show notes. This is part.
Two of. This conversation, and because
it's a long one, we will just goahead and dive right in grades.
How important are grades? How much should you care about
your GPA? We have different schools of
thought here. I feel like yeah.
And it also really depends on the school I think.
(01:03):
Yes. And what you wanna do?
Yeah. I would say you're in major.
GPA is more important than your non major.
Like if you're getting bad grades in all your site classes,
it's hard to explain that like you're interested in this thing
and they should take you on as agrad student.
Yeah, if you don't do well in those classes.
If you tank like your linear algebra class, I feel like
that's not forgive you as important as you tanked abnormal
psychology. Yeah, I would agree with that.
(01:25):
I don't think it B is the end ofthe world.
I've gotten quite a few BS in college.
Will you have to make up for that in other areas of your
Graduate School applications? Yeah, you would need a really
good GRE. You would need lots of research
experience. I have the podcast, so it's a
cost benefit analysis. What are your thoughts?
I'm anal with my grades. This.
(01:47):
Is why I like. This Yeah.
You know, I don't know where it came from.
I've always been anal with my grades, even in high school, so
I feel like I do think grades are really important to me.
It also made me feel a little bit better when I was applying
to grad school because I felt like I had a little bit of a
cushion. I did not take the GRE because
it was optional and I felt a little bit about the decision
because of my grades. But I do think it depends if you
(02:08):
are going to grad school they are going to look at.
Your GPA. If you're applying to jobs, I
don't think it matters nearly asmuch.
So I think. You're going to pencil.
Yeah, I think it really depends on what you want to do.
I think that's really important,what you said, which is that it
matters to you, I think, not just doing research because you
should, not just taking calculusbecause you should.
(02:29):
I'm doing quotes, not just getting straight A's because you
should. Does it make sense and is it
worth the investment for your goals?
And I'm not saying fail all yourclasses don't, but like are you
going to be so stressed out and so burnt out and have no work
life balance in pursuit of an A in that Spanish class or like
(02:50):
whatever. And I honestly like went into
college thinking like I'm going to four O, obviously.
I did not go into college with that goal.
I I just, I think I, I'm just very much like high expectations
for myself to a point where it'sa deficit sometimes because when
the first time I got an A -, I was distraught.
And I just, I catastrophize so much.
(03:11):
I convince myself that if I don't have a four O, like my
career is over. No ones gonna let me to grad
school. No ones gonna hire me.
Which is completely untrue, obviously, because no one is
graduating with a four. Oh yeah, maybe you are.
Congratulations if you are. We're so proud.
And I don't know anyone who is. What extracurrulars did you do
in college and how did you thinkabout?
(03:32):
Approaching those, I was very eager coming into college.
Like I remember the club fair like my freshman fall.
I was like, I don't think I. Even knew that was happening.
I signed up for a lot more clubsin action end up doing and
having a time for, but it ended up like being my main clubs were
I was an associate editor for the law Journal, which is
(03:53):
nothing to do with psych, but clubs is where you, you know,
explore those interests. And this is another side note,
but I think it looks good on your CV to say that like I am
not just a psychology student, like totally person.
I have other interests. I don't need to do only psych
things. I don't need to do only
research. But anyways, yeah, so I did
that. I'm president of the Penn
(04:13):
Undergraduate Psychology Society.
Love pups? This is why Liv is here.
She's a spokesman of the. Department of the of the the
PUPS team, I through the StudentHarm Reduction Coalition, I've
done like clinical volunteering at Penn Presbyterian Medical
Center. What does that mean?
So clinical volunteering. Like what do you do?
Me I So individuals will come into the hospital for various
(04:35):
reasons. It doesn't have to be substance
use related, but they all have asubstance use disorder in
common. So we are just volunteers.
We go in, we talk to them. We're just like an ear honestly,
because you know, they have so many people coming in and
checking on their like doctors and nurses, but those are busy
people. They can't sit and listen to a
patient's grievances as much as they probably would like to, but
(04:56):
that's all we do. We sit and we listen.
Like, what are you not satisfiedwith with your care?
Like, what have you felt like? Have you been mistreated?
Do you feel like you've been stereotyped?
Because there is a lot of that, obviously, even in a place like
Philadelphia at Penn, where substance use is very common in
the city. And you'd think that there's a
little bit more care amongst, like, healthcare workers.
(05:17):
And there isn't always that. So we're just, you know, we
bring them snacks, bring them coffee.
We bring them clothes or like shoes if they're going to rehab
after they get discharged from the hospital.
But yeah, I love it. That's a really good example of
a way that you could get clinical experience to
understand if that's what you want to do as an undergrad.
Yeah. Did you do anything else, like
random activities, how you spendyour free time?
(05:39):
I think she's a Jelly cat collector.
I'm not really, no. I think you have a lot of Jelly
cats. I'd like to OK does that have
one as a collector? Yeah, I think so.
That's two. OK, Jelly.
Enthusiast. I do.
I am definitely a maximalist, that's for sure.
Like just in life. Just like in my spaces, like I
love, you know, like you see my room, like I love stuff.
Got that from my mom. So something really funny is I
(06:03):
applied to write for the Daily Pennsylvania in every single
semester that I. Which is our student newspaper.
Yes, and I was denied multiple occasions and then a message
came into my groupie one day andit was like taking summer like
opinion columnists, no one will be cut.
And I was like, it's my time to shine.
This is it did. You get it for.
Me, yeah, because they literallythey were not cutting anyone.
So I wrote like a couple pieces for like the newspaper, which
(06:24):
again like not psychology related, but like I knew that I
wanted to do it and. Yeah, yeah.
I will say I describe my collegeas like choose your own
adventure experience. And the implications of that is
that I have no chords. For graduation, that's fair.
So like you, again, this is a cost benefit analysis.
(06:44):
I do not look back on my collegeexperience being like, I should
have been in that club. Like I'm really happy with what
I've done in college. And your path might not look
like someone else's. So you have to remind yourself
and ask yourself when you chooseto do these things.
So when you guys see my grand photos.
It's a little. Barren happening.
There's no courts. Yeah, I feel like I like threw
(07:05):
myself into school and just, yeah.
But I've always been like that where I've school has been like
the center of my universe. I don't really do anything
outside of school, honestly. Like, I that sounds sad, but
like if it's not school, you know, it's a club or if it's
doing research. So I feel like I don't know.
Yeah. I did hear that I could get a
cord from Gutman for living in this.
(07:26):
Oh yeah, I got that. One so I think.
I'm that's another thing I will like take every cord opportunity
like I got like a quest bridge cord, even though like I was a
finalist, but I did not match topen and so I was like I was in
request for it. So I'm getting the cord A. 100%
yeah I tried to rush a pre health Greek life rat didn't get
in. I think I didn't even make it
past the first thing. They did not want me I.
(07:48):
Had come and depend not knowing if I wanted to rush and then I
found out how much it cost to bein a sorority and it immediately
was cut because it's like thousands of dollars a semester
and it's just not feasible for I.
I feel like I struggled to, like, really find my group of
people. Yes, because I wasn't doing a
lot of structured things, which I was fine with.
Again, I don't look back, but itwas something I had to be more
(08:10):
intentional about. So I really wanted to rush.
I really wanted to be a sorority.
I tried to rush twice, didn't make it both times.
I still need to do an episode about that.
It's because it was humbling. Yeah.
It was humbling, yeah. I cried a lot.
I like didn't rush, but I was cut from my high school
volleyball team so I feel like. I got it, yeah.
So I tried to rush Greek life. That didn't work out.
(08:31):
I tried to rush the pre health frat, that didn't work out.
I was in active minds for a bit and I was technically a board
member with like marketing and communications.
I for one semester wrote some things for her campus.
They're like blog. I was in Service Dog Club.
That is the best club that I've done at Penn.
(08:52):
They had this golden retriever named Fred, who someone on
campus was raising and I got to walk him twice a week.
I would go and walk this golden retriever and I would get my dog
fixed and had like consistent access to a dog who was.
Consistent access to a dog. Specifically a golden retriever.
I loved that. That was like one of my favorite
things. Here's what I found for her
(09:13):
campus. Like I was like, OK, I'm
interested in like the media dissemination communications
piece of things I was writing like stocking stuff for gift
guides and it felt like work I was doing that wasn't benefiting
where I wanted to go. I found that the podcast was a
much more effective way for me to have that IP and further that
interest, and I feel like it wasreaching me towards my career
(09:35):
goal of being a psychologist. Same thing with Active Minds, I
was helping them with their social media, these weekly
meetings. While it was like you got to
meet people, it was additional work that again, I didn't feel
was helping me get towards my goal and spending that time
instead on the podcast or research was more effective.
So now I'm really be careful on like the things that I'm saying
(09:58):
yes to. Is this directly helping me with
my next goal or is it for fun? Because I do lots of things for
fun. I've been needlepointing
recently. I do diamond painting.
I read a lot, I watch a lot of TV.
I'm very tapped in online. So it's like, is it for fun?
But if it's a work commitment that's going to take energy from
me, how is that helping me move things forward?
(10:21):
And I wouldn't say this approachis for everyone because you kind
of have to have something to show for it if you're not doing
clubs, yes. And so I.
Agree. And because you have the
podcast, I feel like it's not. But if you just decide not to do
clubs and not to do anything andyou're like.
Yeah, you have to be like here I've I instead use this time for
this thing. And here's what has come of that
(10:41):
investment of time. I also have a social media
marketing agency called WaveformSocial, which I've used to
subsidize the podcast and research and like as a side
hospital to have some income because I taught myself how to
edit and market and do video andsocial media for the podcast.
And so now I do that for other people as a way to like make a
little bit of money. And also it's been a great
experience as far as like I've managed people and I know how to
(11:04):
do cold emails and networking and all the business type of
stuff. So that's kind of what I did in
college. Again, it's a cost benefit
analysis. I see all these people taking
their grad photos with like all of these chords and they know
all these people and they're in all these societies.
And I'm like, I didn't do that. But also you have to ask
yourself, like, would I have wanted to do that?
(11:25):
College is so much FOMO. It is so much FOMO.
For me especially, it was like social FOMO more than like
academic FOMO. I feel like I threw myself into
academics so hard. Actually, story before my
grandmother heard it on the podcast, she sent me a birthday
cake my freshman year and I didn't have anyone to share it
with. That's actually I'm going to.
Cry, I know. It, it's hard.
(11:45):
I, I feel like you see these people going on these
extravagant spring break trips with their 20 girlfriends and
it's like #1 I can't afford to go on a spring break.
Trip. Yeah, I went home every.
Year for spring break. Me too.
I don't have 20 sorority girls. No behind me, I don't know if I
know 20 girls at but no just kidding, I do but like not that
well, not. To go on a trip, Yeah.
And it's like I felt so like, Ohmy gosh, am I like wasting my
(12:08):
college years. This is the time you're supposed
to be having so much fun. And I also, so I don't drink,
which is a huge, I mean, you know, like college is.
I drink like one time a semester.
Yeah, it's very drinking heavy, especially Penn, the party Ivy.
I feel like drinking is a huge part of the culture.
And so I felt like out of place.I was like, I didn't want to be
(12:29):
going to frats. I don't want to be getting
drunk. What am I supposed to be doing?
How am I supposed to make friends?
And honestly like I made my closest friends through classes
which is like crazy especially my Italian class like that's
where I met most of my friends take.
Italian. So does that mean we're not?
Friends. So my friend group I would say
is like from Italian, but I alsohave a lot of individual and I
(12:49):
feel like I always wanted like acore group where all of my
friends were just in one group and it's just not feasible.
Yeah, like it's just not. And honestly, I feel like that's
one thing that people get FOMO with is they don't have that
friend group for like a group Halloween costume that's
stressful, that's FOMO or like at the same time.
Picker because it's like, let's say you're like annoyed.
You don't want the drama. You don't wanna have no one else
(13:10):
you can turn to. It's like you wanna friend
options, yeah? So like truly sit with what
would it be like if I only had one friend group?
And do you want that? Yeah, I have one more thing to
say. Extracurricular activities,
volunteering, get into your community, break out of like.
I didn't call it the. Pen bubble where it's like pen
(13:30):
students get this in their mind that like they're in
Philadelphia, they need to stay on campus they can't leave the
campus or they. Think the pen campus is
Philadelphia and that's not yes.And like, some of my favorite
experiences was I was volunteering with the Everywhere
Project, which is like a nonprofit harm reduction
organization. And it was so invaluable to like
actually go in a Center City every week and like hand out
like clean syringes, clean needles, things that like.
(13:54):
For drugs? Yeah.
For drugs. For clarifying yeah, I'm like
really interested in harm reduction now because of that
and how, you know, we're I don't.
Know if they were also needle pointers, so I had to clarify.
Needle pointers. I'm kidding.
Wait. I don't even know what that
means. Like, you know, my sewing
project. I'm doing, yeah.
I'm actually handing out like sewing needles and yarn for the.
Knitters, I'm not funny. No, it was.
(14:15):
Funny, it was funny. But like that's where I got my
like main interest of like doingharm reduction was because
obviously I'm interested in doing a conviction research and
part of that comes with treatment.
And as like a field we're movingaway from, abstinence is key.
How do we make it so individualsthat want to use drugs can use
them safely? And that's something I'm really
(14:37):
interested in. And I got interested in that
because of my volunteering. And it's just been so nice to
like break out of the Penn campus sometimes and interact
with people that are not at Penn.
OK, quickly going through some like research related things
that are very confusing, fundingand grants.
Yeah, a really quick overview here is that there will be
options for you to get funding or get a grant.
It's small, it's tiny. Like it's probably like $500 a
(15:00):
$1000 to go to a conference or work on a research project over
the summer. A lot of the times it's related
to lab work you're already doing.
You don't need funding and grants.
But if you're already doing research, apply to those because
it's great for your CV to be able to say I got funding, I was
able to do the application to request funding.
So being aware that that's an option and something that you're
(15:22):
qualified for is something I wasn't aware of until this year
and I wish I did more. Yeah, especially if you are
volunteering, like you said, fora research lab, look to see if
your university provides like, especially over the summer.
If you have to like stay in yourcollege town and you're not
getting student housing, like check to see if there's a way
that you can get funding from your school for those the like
(15:42):
free work you're doing. That's what Ivy said.
My sister at Duke, there were options to get funding for her
to work not at Duke and do research over the summer.
She didn't do it early enough, but like so those options do
exist and be aware of them. The funding might also not go to
you, it might go to your lab, but it's a great thing to be
able to put on your CV. So definitely keep an awareness
(16:03):
of that. Writing a thesis.
I would say most schools have some kind of a thesis or a
longer term project. A lot of them it's probably like
related to an honors program. At least it is at Penn.
Definitely do a thesis if you can.
It's a great experience. It helps you understand what
your research interests are. Doing the statistics
independently is really, really valuable.
(16:25):
I would say ideally by the time you're in your junior year,
you've identified what lab and mentor you'd want to do a thesis
with. So you're able to like be in
that lab. They know you, you have a little
bit more of a say about what your thesis is going to be on
and then you're writing your thesis.
I would say try and find a thesis mentor that makes line
item edits and gives you a lot of feedback.
(16:47):
That's one thing that Angela Duckworth said like last week or
the week before, and I was like,that is so true, which is that
at our age in academia as baby undergrads, what we need is
feedback, feedback, feedback andlots of revisions.
And trying to find that in a mentor at this stage is very
important. If you can ask your professor or
your mentor, is there an option that this could be adjusted and
(17:11):
edited and we could potentially submit this for publication
somewhere. They might not suggest that, but
especially if your findings are significant, ask.
The worst thing they can say is no.
Yeah, Posters, papers and getting published.
You hear? You have to get published.
You should be working on papers.What is a poster?
I didn't even know. Gosh.
(17:31):
So we had to do posters for our research symposium within the
department. I think of it as just like a
very brief version of your paper.
Like you split it the same way you would split up a paper with
like visual introduction, the methods, the results.
But it's different in that it's less word heavy and a lot more
like figure heavy. Like you want someone to look at
your poster and and see right away like what this is like.
(17:52):
You don't want them to have to read like 3000 lines of text to
figure out what you're doing. And you also probably will only
present like 1 aspect of it or the significant findings, the
paper you report everything. Yeah, the poster, everything.
From your paper into your poster, yeah.
And that's OK. So a poster is like a visual
representation of a research. Finding a paper is like a long
(18:13):
term version of that. You want to get posters in
undergrad, Finding a lab where the undergrads are working on
posters. Also, your first poster, if you
have the option to work with like a post back and they can
also help scaffold that process.If you can get published as an
undergrad or work in a lab whereyour contributions are
significant, that you get authorship for what you're
(18:34):
doing, that's really helpful. But these are the ways that
people can quantify and measure your experience, I guess I would
say. But you.
Probably won't be a first authorpublication paper on an
undergrad if you are. I'm so impressed.
That's like crazy amazing. Wait, you're doing that though
for your thesis, right? For my thesis right now, yeah.
(18:56):
Olivia's, but it's. Probably not going to be
published till I'm graduated. But still very cool.
But yeah, just like asking it like, are these things that
happen in the lab? And like, is there structure and
support for those is super helpful.
Yeah. Conferences.
We talked about this briefly. I love conferences.
I remember getting to ADAA or the Anxiety and Depression
(19:16):
Association of America conference.
And just like, goosebumps. Like, I found my people.
Yeah. Like this is what I'm going to
be in my career, this is it. And it's basically like 3 days
of talks about research and concepts in psychology.
And it's also where research is presented.
So like if you work on a poster,sometimes you'll present it in
an undergrad context or like something for school.
(19:39):
But it's really great to presenta poster at a national
conference because you have to apply and get it accepted.
And it's just such a fun experience.
If you can go to a conference especially and get funding for
that conference like bucket listitem as an.
Undergrad yes definitely and when you go like be prepared
know who's going to be there know who you want to talk to
like when we went to the. Association to do an episode
(20:02):
about just conferences. I know like when we went to the
Association for Behavioral and Cognitive Therapies, like I, you
had a lot more people there thanme, but like.
We tried to find our grads for the Pi like.
We knew who we were going to be applying to for grad school, and
so we just like tried to find them.
Just to introduce yourself. I like went up to someone in the
lobby and was like. I like you don't know.
I know you. You will see my name soon in
(20:22):
application. Yes.
So yeah. And just getting to know also,
like if you see someone is in their lab, I mean it's one of
their students, talk to them. Too go up to them, yeah, 100%
follow them on Instagram, be like what did you like?
What did you not like? And they're so nice networking.
Yes. I would say the most successful
networking relationships I've had, the ground rule is that
(20:46):
like you have to provide value to them and then they will help
you out. It's like I scratch your back,
you scratch mine. And so maybe that's volunteering
in their lab, maybe it is working through work study or
helping them with data collection.
I have been able to get mentors that work tougher to crack and
not at pen or not do I don't work in their labs through the
(21:09):
podcast and providing value withlike I can help you edit videos
or with social media or you can come on the podcast.
So just being aware of like whatvalue first, what value are you
providing to them? And then what do I hope to get
out of this? How can they support me?
I would also say as far as networking, a lot of the times
this is with the context of likea long term mentorship
(21:31):
relationship. You want a letter of
recommendation for a future job or a program you're applying to.
You should be keeping a running list of all the responsibilities
and ways that you've helped thatperson and positive feedback
you've gotten. Yes, because.
A lot of the time, which I was shocked you will write your own
letter recommendation. Even though you checked the
thing on the website being like I've never seen this before.
(21:53):
Yes. But it's industry standard to
write your own and then they edit it, yes.
So you need to know what you didbecause you are literally the
one who's writing it and. So that means what programs you
were doing, how much data you were cleaning, how many hours
you did, how? Many participants were in the
study like. Would say like other networking
introduce yourself to anyone asklots of questions.
I would say in person like aboveall else is the mentorship or
(22:17):
networking relationships that have actually come to fruition
and really being like, how can Iprovide value?
Because even though academia is not like a famous person like
these people are spread, then they have a lot of inbound
requests coming and it will get lost.
Yeah. And don't bombard them with a
book that you have written on ane-mail.
Introduce yourself one sentence as to what you're interested in,
(22:39):
what you're like, hoping to get like do you want like a
volunteer position or whatever. And just like maybe attach your
CB probably if you have one, butlike do not write like I loved
your paper on this, this, this, This is why like they don't,
they don't want it. They don't want to hear it.
Like they have thousands of emails coming in.
Make it short and sweet. And I would also say if it's a
(23:00):
cold e-mail, you can really quickly tell the mentors you'd
want to work with because they reply shockingly fast.
Yes. They'll be like, oh, so sorry
you don't have an option, but nice to meet you.
Yes. And you're like, Oh my God, that
person's like, so highly published and cool.
Like, yes. So that's also a good telltale
sign. I'll post on Instagram or Tiktok
a sample cold pitch e-mail that people can do.
That's good. Some quick questions.
(23:22):
What do we wish we had known in freshman year?
Psychology is synonymous with research.
Even if you eventually want to do clinical, yeah, you can avoid
it, and understanding how the research process works and at
what stage you're in that process and then how to get
involved. I think a CV, I didn't know what
a CV was. I didn't know I needed one.
(23:42):
Even if you have nothing on yourCV, I want you to start your CV
today and put the high school you went to list the relevant
classes you're taking. Who are your references?
Even if you don't format it justlike I just have a running list
in my phone split by year of like this is every class I took
freshman year, every club I was in, everything I do because even
if. You end up editing it, but just
(24:03):
he won't. But you'll sit down to write
your CV your senior year and you're gonna be like.
What would I be crying? It took me hours to go back
through and be like, oh, I gave that one random talk at that one
random high school on Zoom. What was the name?
What was the date? What was the high school?
Literally anything you do as is,like if you get money, if you do
an interview for something, if you, if you get it down, if you
(24:26):
have a skill that you learn, if you take a licensing thing like
city licensing for a lab, if youwork on an IRB study, if you're
added to the IRB, write it down.Everything down every.
Single coding language you like.Write it down, it'll make your
life. So much.
Ridiculously easy. And all these things, another
(24:47):
Angela Duckworth learning shouldbe done with an example.
You should never try to DIY something from scratch.
So you should be asking Google and ChatGPT.
Give me an example of an undergraduate psychology CD.
Give me an example of a cool. Person because I not exactly
based mine off the pen one, but like that's where I got because
I mean when I first started writing ACVI was like you see
(25:08):
these things on. We didn't even say what ACV was.
Curriculum Vitae. I didn't know how that was how
you say it. It's probably saying it a
really, really long resume that's only used in academia and
this is the Bible. Like you are your CV.
Like professors will have like 90 page CVS, Yeah, yours is not.
Going to it's like it's quantifying your experiences and
when you apply for jobs, when you work in labs, when you maybe
(25:31):
even like our thesis, we might have submitted ACV.
This is what they're looking at.And so that's why it's important
to update it and edit it. And I was like holding my
sister's hand through the CV process because I have been
telling her like, as soon as possible get involved in
research. She's doing it the summer as a
freshman, which like head of theher, her like really, I get
credit for that because she wouldn't even know if I hadn't
(25:52):
told her. But yeah, it's not a resume.
You're going to want to see examples.
It's a really strange format andyou're going to want to have
like professors and PhD studentslook at it and give you
feedback. And ignore the like like graphic
design people that say it shouldbe flashy.
No, it should be like. I see so many of that where it's
like, you know, they're tired ofreading the same black and white
(26:14):
CV this is. Not a resume.
No, they're not. It should look like everyone
else's. It literally should be.
No color, no graphics, no crazy fonts like.
APA style? Yes, make it.
Professional looking, Yeah. Yeah.
With Graduate School applications, I feel like when I
first started thinking of applying, there was a lot of
(26:35):
pushback with everyone in my life.
And like professors, it's not common that you apply.
We both applied our senior year,which most people don't do.
They take a couple years to workand then they apply.
And so I received a lot of, you know, I don't think you should
do this. I had a lot of doubts about it
but I firmly believe if you think you have a chance you
(26:57):
should do it because like literally why not?
Like yes, it is time, yes it is money, but you're increasing
your chances if you apply twice than if you apply once.
I also think applying to grad school gave me the structure and
scaffolding to successfully get a post back job because I.
(27:18):
Already had my CV. I had my CVI, understood what
labs I wanted to work at. I understood what what research
experiences I needed, where the gaps were.
I practice interviews. I knew how to present myself.
Like, I give credit to getting apost back for the fact that I
did all that work through grad school, and I have no regrets
for that reason. Yeah, except for that it costs a
(27:40):
lot of money. Yes.
And unfortunately I, if I had, you know, perfect hindsight
2020, if I knew the situation offunding, maybe I would not have
applied. But you just never know.
Well, no, you never know. And so unfortunately that did
affect a lot of things this year.
But I just recommend that like, if you think you have a chance,
(28:00):
like, go for it. Yeah, and no one knows your
application like you do, and especially these mentors and Pis
who are working with like 50 people in their orbit.
Be honest with yourself. Yeah, like I was being told, you
know, like, not that I don't have a chance, but like pretty
much that. And then, you know, we both got
interviews and then would have gotten offers if the funding was
(28:25):
not the situation. No, I was just waitlisted.
She would have gone. So I like would have gotten in,
you know what I mean? Like I would have gotten in this
semester if the funding was not get pulled, was not pulled.
So it's like I would have been successful this year and I if I
had listened to everyone who I talked to, I wouldn't have
applied. So I feel like just listen to
yourself, like you, no one knowsyou.
Like, you know you if you think of a chance like, take that
(28:46):
chance. OK, what are you glad you did as
a psychology major? Like what would you do again?
Everything. OK.
There's OK that. Was really specific, I would say
getting involved with research, working in multiple labs so I
could diversify my experiences, building relationship with my
(29:08):
mentor, starting my network. As an undergrad, your network is
everything, especially for grad school, because they're getting
hundreds of applicants, and if they recognize your name or your
mentor, you have a better chancethat they'll read your
application. Yeah.
Like I even had a professor who I had like emailed before I
applied just introducing myself.And then when I did apply, he
emailed me back. He was like I was looking for
(29:29):
your name in the applications because I remember you emailed
me. Like definitely I recommend
doing that like emailing becausethey they will remember.
Totally. And it also like from the other
side of the table, like it showsinitiative, it shows
demonstrated curiosity. It's not about the fact that you
emailed that might not go anywhere.
It's the fact that you like. It's the skills that it shows
(29:50):
you are willing to advocate for yourself and introduce yourself
and network and you know what your goals are and what you
want. Advocating for yourself is huge.
Yes. What do you wish you would have
done differently? I wish I would have started
research earlier. I don't think I started it too
late, but I think I just didn't understand how important it was.
And I really enjoy working in labs, so I wish I would have
(30:10):
done that earlier. And then the other thing is, I
think rather than focusing on like, what more experiences do I
need? How can my current experiences,
how can I get the most out of them?
So like, if you're already doingresearch, is there a grant that
you can get for the research you're already doing?
If you're already working on a thesis, can you submit it for
publication? You're already working on a
thesis. This can that also be a poster
for a conference? So I wish I would have known.
(30:32):
You can apply for grants and awards and of like a lot of the
times it doesn't pan out. But if you've already done the
work, why not like see if you can get the most bang for your
buck in these other areas? I would say, yeah, I look at the
resources that your university offers, whether it's like
psychology related or not. I mean like I got like a free
laptop. From Penn really like for.
(30:53):
Being first generation low income students.
Like they literally gave me a laptop.
Do you get to keep it? Yeah.
Oh, my God, That's so great. I know.
And just like looking at the resources that you are being
offered to, you really, like, take advantage of that.
Yeah. Because you're not gonna get
these same resources when you graduate.
The second you're out of here, they're not gonna give you
anything. Yeah.
Yeah. Any last parting advice to the
(31:14):
baby psych majors? God, it's the best.
I love being a psych major, especially when I talk to other
majors. I'm like, we have it good.
It's not stressful or like, yeah, at least at this stage.
So incredibly competitive. It's so interesting.
Generally the mentors are great.I think the classes are very
digestible, very like able to behandled.
(31:37):
I think the brunt of like psychology is what you're doing
outside of your classes, like doing your research, being
involved in clinical volunteering.
I agree. So yeah, you will be busy, but
it's not going to be necessarilyfrom your classes.
Yeah, I think, I think that was what I didn't understand going
in, and I hope that's the one thing people take away, is that,
like, if you want a career in psychology, undergrad is going
(32:00):
to be not about the classes you took.
It's going to be about what, like you said, what you did
outside of the classroom. Well, Olivia, thank you for
coming on. She persisted.
Will this go on your CV? I'm so honored.
Of course it's going on my CV. I'm posting on all my socials.
Yes. It's going to be my personality
for a while. I love it.
I'm so excited we got to twin Alice.
If you're listening and watchingbecause she said she was going
(32:22):
to shout out We love you. If you guys have more psychology
questions, like if you want an episode on like conferences or
any of these other areas, because we did talk a lot, but
there was also like so much to say and there's not a road map
and the road maps that there are, like we have an example of
a grad school guidebook. It's dense, so hopefully.
(32:45):
This was. Digestible.
Yeah. All right, Well, thank you for
being here. If you liked the episode, share,
leave a review, post on social media, send to a friend or
family member. Thanks for listening you.
Can drop my e-mail I'll. Yeah, we'll put it.
Yeah, we'll put it in the the show notes.
Instagram hand, whatever you usually do.
I will give. As reply to my DMS.
OK. I will put everything there.
(33:06):
If you guys have a question for Olivia, like yeah, if you want
to get involved in addiction research.
Or love addiction research. She is your girl.
If you want to get involved in like psychology.
On campus clubs also defer to Olivia.
OK, bye, bye. If you enjoyed this episode, if
she persisted, make sure to leave a review, subscribe and
(33:27):
share with a friend or family member.
Follow along at at She Persist, a podcast on TikTok, Instagram,
YouTube, and more for bonus content.
Thanks for listening and keep persisting.
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