November 27, 2025 ⢠48 mins
#240
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whatâs really stopping you from finding love??! todayâs guest is dr. molly burretsâ a clinical psychologist and adjunct professor in the department of marriage and family Therapy at the university of southern california. her areas of expertise include couples therapy and womenâs issues.Â
in this episode, we discuss the unhealthy patterns that are holding you back from finding your soulmate and what you need to know to have a healthy, life-long relationship.Â
we talk about:
⢠how your life love can reflect the family dynamics you had growing up
⢠self-biases and how those can impact your relationshipsÂ
⢠finding a life partner + common mistakes people make along the way
⢠why people stay in unhealthy relationships (even when they know itâs unhealthy!)Â
⢠figuring out what youâre looking for in a partner (do opposites really attract?!)
⢠narcissism, gaslighting, and âtherapy speakâ in romantic relationshipsÂ
⢠âpick me energyâ + how it can affect relationships long-term
⢠stigma around being single as a woman in your late 20s and 30sÂ
⢠the âlet themâ theory + if that actually works in relationships Â
⢠pros and cons to the âdating to marryâ approachÂ
⢠gen zâs dating patterns + if gen z is dating less than other generationsÂ
⢠a piece of dating advice everyone in gen z should know
mentioned:
âgiveaway! want coffee on me? every month, i gift one listener a starbucks gift card to enter:
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2. dm me a screenshot on instagram
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hello@shepersistedpodcast.comÂ
Š 2020 SHE PERSISTED LLC. all rights reserved.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to She Persisted, the Gen.
Z mental health podcast. I'm your host, Sadie Sutton.
Let's get into it. I want to start with the number
one thing not to do when you're picking a partner.
What I want to tell women is that if you are thinking that
your partner is a narcissist, ifyou want to have a lifelong
relationship, if you're dating someone and you're working so
(00:21):
hard to make it work, but you'renot seeing the other person is
doing the same thing. There are some situations in
life where you can't change person and they're not going to
change their behavior because ofyou.
And it's those situations that I'm like.
Hello, hello and welcome back toShe Persisted.
Let's be honest, dating right now feels pretty much
impossible. If you've ever thought, why do I
(00:43):
keep attracting the same kind ofpeople?
Am I doing something wrong this episode?
Is for you. Today I'm joined by Doctor Molly
Burritt, A clinical psychologistand adjunct professor in US CS
Department of Marriage and Family Therapy.
Her specialties include couples therapy and women's issues, and
she is breaking down the hidden patterns that might be
preventing you from finding and keeping healthy relationships.
(01:05):
We talk about how family dynamics growing up can shape
your dating life, why we stay inrelationships that aren't
working, and how to actually figure out what you want in a
partner. We also unpack some of the
buzziest Tik toks in the dating sphere right now, like
narcissist gaslighting, therapy speak, the Let them theory, and
even whether Gen. Z is actually dating less than
(01:26):
other generations and if that's a bad thing.
So by the end of this, you will understand not just how to
attract a healthy relationship, but how to build one that lasts.
So let's dive in. Thank you so much for joining me
on Cheaper Assisted. I'm so excited to have you here
to talk about all things relationships.
I think we're going to touch on a lot of things that people have
either first hand experience tried seen online.
(01:48):
We're going to debunk some things.
We're going to talk about some best practices because as I say
on the podcast all the time, thelike end all be all.
One thing we need in our life isrelationships and healthy
relationships. And if we can do that
effectively and not have that beanother source of stress and
drama in our lives, I think we're we're doing things right.
So thank you so much for joiningme.
I'm thrilled to be here. Thanks for having me.
(02:09):
If we could start with a little bit of background, how did you
decide to get into psychology, go down this track, become
interested in relationships because there's obviously so
many directions you can go if somany experts and fresh is on the
podcast. So what show you to
relationships and to this area specifically?
Yeah, well, I'm from a really big family, and my family has a
(02:31):
lot of love and also a lot of chaos.
And my sort of strength in life always have been that I really
enjoy school, I'm really good atschool.
And it made sense to me at the time, you know, from as young as
in high school, to try to understand the dynamics in my
family and the relationships in my family and the dysfunction in
(02:55):
my family by applying my academic learning to it.
So I have always sort of tried to understand my own life, my
own family, and my own upbringing through the academic
lens, which is why I became a clinical psychologist.
And probably not surprisingly, as someone who came from a
chaotic family in my 20s and early 30s, I had a lot of
dysfunctional romantic relationships.
(03:17):
I had a lot of chaos in in my life.
And I think people always think,you know, I specialize in
couples therapy. People always think that couples
therapists have perfect relationships.
And while I'm in a very healthy,wonderful marriage now, it took
a long time to get there. And I was a therapist throughout
this whole time. So it took some time to, you
(03:39):
know, apply my academic learningreally to myself and do the
healing that I needed to do to have a good relationship.
And I like to say that a lot of what I learned, I learned the
hard way. Yeah, You mentioned something
there that I was like, wait a minute.
This is not necessarily common universal knowledge.
And if you are in like a first serious relationship or just
(04:01):
starting to like, really date people in a more serious way, it
might not be something you're aware of, but you should be.
Which is that our romantic relationships and our love life
can reflect different dynamics and patterns that you experience
growing up, which like, some people are like, Oh yeah, duh,
of course, others like, why on earth would those two things be
(04:22):
connected? Can you explain that of why that
might be something that comes upfor people?
There's like so many different theories and explanations, but
like, why is that even a thing? Yeah.
Well, between the ages of zero and five, our brain does the
most growing it does in our lifetime.
I mean, the amount of growing that the brain does between zero
and five far, far out exceeds the amount of growing that it
(04:45):
does between, say, 5 and 30. OK.
So this is called a really critical window of time, and the
brain is doing a lot of learningbased on what they're
experiencing and what they're seeing about templates for
relationships and typically the relationships that we have with
(05:05):
our primary caregivers, for somepeople, that's a mom and a dad,
but not for all people. But the relationships there,
they form a template. And as we become older, we
unconsciously seek out what is familiar to us.
So actually, even if something has been a painful experience,
(05:26):
the fact that it is familiar is what will draw us to that
experience. And we often find ourselves in
relationships with people who have traits or who the pattern
mirrors that which we experienced as young children.
And I know that that was certainly the case for me.
Yeah, I, I think it's helpful tojust like, accept it as truth
(05:47):
that even though we like to think that we're doing what's
best for ourselves, a lot of theways that we're wired are really
ineffective and just understanding, OK, as humans, we
are wired to not change and conserve energy, even though
both those things are good for us.
And also we are so, so, so loss aversive and resisting change.
(06:08):
We have so much research on that.
Even if it's painful or uncomfortable, we'll stay
instead of experiencing something new.
Similarly, if we have something we don't want to lose, we'd see
it as more valuable than this other thing, even if objectively
that's not remotely the case whatsoever.
And so understanding that like the way you're perceiving the
situation might not be accurate,and not just because you like
(06:30):
feel a certain way about it, butliterally you're wired to keep
these things and not change them.
And you're not wrong for like experiencing it that way, but
it's something to be aware of asfar as a bias when we're
thinking about these things thatare so, so, so important, like
our relationships. And some of the most important
biases we have are the ones thatwe have about ourselves.
(06:52):
So we tell ourselves or we believe we have these core
beliefs about ourselves based onour experiences that are not
actually true. You know, and for me, one of
mine was, you know, I have to get someone to choose me because
nobody is just going to choose me on their own.
I have to work really hard and try really hard to experience
(07:15):
somebody loving me. And, you know, when I really was
able to challenge and confront that belief and start acting in
a way that was more focused on me choosing who I wanted as a
partner versus getting chosen bysomeone, my whole life really
started to transform. Yeah, it would be great if there
(07:35):
was like 1 universal of those for all of them.
We could all be aware of it, butit's so different.
And through all of the therapy and all the self reflection and,
and working on how are these beliefs showing up for me?
Like that core belief that was impacting everything and
everyone in my life was I don't deserve love.
Love can be there, but it's conditional and understanding
(07:55):
that those biases, even if they're about yourself, are
impacting like all these external factors.
And so I'm curious how that shows up in relationships
because even as we talk about them, it's like, well, it's a
belief about me. Like the other person doesn't
hold it, but it does have a really huge impact on how you're
approaching dating, how you showup in relationships, if you are
(08:16):
even putting yourself out there.So how do those potentially not
true or maladaptive or ineffective beliefs impact our
love lives, our romantic relationships, those
connections? Well, let me tell the listeners
how it looked for me, and then hopefully they'll be able to
apply that to their own lives because it's different for
everyone. But here was my situation.
(08:38):
I have incredibly loving parents, incredibly loving
parents. And because they had very
difficult lives themselves as children and as adults, their
primary motivation was to set meup and my siblings to have a
life that was better and different than theirs.
And so they focused on creating opportunity for us.
(09:01):
And this really worked. Look at me sitting here.
I'm a clinical psychologist. I have the highest degree that
one can attain in the most developed country in the world,
right? So my parents really did the
thing, you know, And I'm so grateful to them for that.
What an act of love. But in prioritizing creating
opportunities for us, what endedup happening in our house is
(09:21):
that there were a lot of factorscompeting for their resources.
And I'm talking about things like time, attention, food,
energy availability. And my parents were working
really, really hard. And this is what happens when
there is systemic oppression, right?
(09:41):
Like when people need to be focused on getting food on the
table. Parents have to put a lot of
time and energy into making thathappen.
And my parents absolutely did. And we also had other family
members in our realm that neededa lot of care, that had
problems. And my parents were putting a
lot of attention and energy intothe care of other people.
(10:02):
And so I just didn't have the experience of having really
available caregivers. What I had were parents who were
very loving, vocal about how much they loved me, did things
that showed that they love me, right by creating opportunity
for me. But emotionally, I wasn't able
to really find them. I didn't have access to them.
(10:25):
They had other priorities that meant that I didn't just get
time with my parents. I didn't get attention, you
know, and I developed this belief that people can really,
really love you and not be available for you.
And so you have to do things to get people's attention that love
(10:45):
you. For me, it was achievement.
I decided I'm going to be the kid in the family that's going
to do everything, achieve everything.
Class president, valedictorian, you know, full scholarship to
college, get a PhD, all these things, things that still
motivate my life toward achievement.
And if I do all these things, then I'll get attention, right?
(11:07):
And that was one of my coping strategies as an adult.
In my 20s, I found myself in a series of relationships where I
was with someone who said that they loved me, who on the
surface it seemed like they loved me and it seemed like a
good relationship. But for one reason or another, I
never really had access to that person.
(11:30):
Whether it was that they had a commitment problem and didn't
know that they wanted to marry me despite being together for a
long time, telling me they lovedme more than they loved anyone
else in their life and it was the best relationship they had
ever been in. But I don't know if I want to
marry you. So these people who, on the
surface, it looked like everything was good.
(11:50):
It looked like I had love, but Iwas behind the scenes working
overtime trying to get picked, trying to get chosen by these
people who couldn't actually be available for me for the kind of
relationship that I wanted. And that's how this has played
out for me in my lifetime. And it took a lot of effort and
(12:11):
energy and healing to turn around this experience.
So if we're aware of beliefs that might be impacting how
we're approaching this or what we're looking for in
relationships, if we're able to not necessarily overcome because
it's a lifelong journey in thoseexperiences can be so pivotal
(12:31):
and influential for the rest of our lives.
But if we're like, OK, I'm awareof this, I'm doing the internal
work. What is the external and
probably internal as well process look like for finding a
partner mate selection like you mentioned earlier, before we
began, how do we approach that? And we're all doing this for the
first time. Everyone would like a a set of
rules and a playbook, but I think a lot of it instead is
(12:54):
trial and error. And I'm sure both through the
research and experience and yourcareer, like we're going about
this wrong, especially in these early days in your teens, your
20s. How should we be approaching
this to be effective, to be aware of these lived experiences
that might be influencing thingsbut also have the end result
that we want, which is a relationship where you feel seen
(13:16):
and heard and understood and supported and have all those
needs met in a really healthy. Way.
Yeah, that's a great question. I want to start with the number
one thing not to do when you're picking a partner, OK?
And the number one thing not to do is make your choice based on
the feeling of falling in love. Now, I'm not telling you that
(13:40):
you should settle for a partner that you're not in love with.
Please don't get it twisted. But the feeling of falling in
love effects our neurotransmitters in the brain
in the same way that cocaine does, OK, So you are in a
clouded state of judgement, OK? And that feeling is really
(14:02):
important and wonderful to have in the beginning of a
relationship, especially. And if it's important to you, I
don't want you to make it unimportant.
But what I want you to do is make it not the only thing, OK?
Because if you want to have a relationship, a lifelong
relationship, then you have to be thinking about a long life
(14:27):
and who are you going to be and what is going to be important to
you in 1020, thirty, 4050 years.The feeling of falling in love
is really, really important at the beginning and we want to
always be able to come back to that feeling.
But I can promise you it's not going to be the number one most
important thing to you when you have a toddler and an infant and
(14:52):
a full time job and you're trying to figure out the
business of making a life work. OK, the things that are going to
be meaningful to you, and I think they're different person
to person, but what a lot of people need and want to have are
things like commitment. Someone with excellent character
(15:13):
integrity, someone who knows howto go through hard things and
stay loyal and focused, someone with grit and resilience,
someone who is going to be an excellent caregiver.
And I also tell people, don't marry anyone that you wouldn't
go into business with because marriage and life is a business
(15:34):
and you find yourself being teammates with that person.
So if you can't trust that person with decision making,
with money, with executive planning, why would you marry
that person? Because that's what your life is
going to be. It's not going to be going on
dates and falling in love and getting ice cream together for
the rest of your life. Those will end up little
(15:56):
beautiful experiences that dot your life, but they're not the
stuff of life. And so you have to give yourself
time beyond the falling in love phase to experience a person and
who they are with sort of betterjudgment and make sure that they
have the character and the quality and the traits that
(16:17):
you're looking for to sustain a long term relationship.
Yeah. I mean, as you lay out those
things that are important to consider and prioritize, it's so
fascinating because I don't think anyone is entering or
staying in a relationship because it doesn't work, right?
Like you, you want it to work, you think it will work.
(16:38):
And yet we struggle to objectively look for those
traits. Think about what this will be
like down the line and either end relationships based on that
not being compatible or selecting people, choosing
people, seeking out people that are compatible with those goals
and values. And so I'm curious what your
thoughts on there. If people, I think they want the
(16:59):
best for themselves, they want stability, they want a future,
and yet that doesn't happen. In so many.
Relationships and not just like,oh, this is different than I
thought it would be, but then people will stay in these
relationships for years and years and years.
Why isn't it so simple and objective to be like, okay,
here's what I want and this isn't it.
So not moving. Forward Well, First things
first, people have to take a look at themselves and
(17:22):
accurately determine whether they embody all of the
relationship traits that they'relooking for in another person.
We're often looking at what doesthe other person have?
What can they bring to my life? But if you don't have those
traits yourself, something is going to get caught up, OK?
And you're going to experience problems in the relationship.
(17:44):
So don't automatically just go to the other person and decide
that something is wrong with them.
You have to engage in a lot of self inquiry and find out, this
is what I'm looking for in a partner.
Here are 50 things I'm looking for right down your list.
And then ask yourself, how many of those things do I have and
how many am I missing? And you need to fill in the
(18:04):
blanks to set yourself up right?But another reason why we stay
in relationships where it's not always there, it's called the
sunk cost fallacy. We have invested something into
the relationship and we think I have to stay in it because look
at all that I've invested in it.And I'll lose all of this.
(18:27):
Yes, I will lose all of this if I end this relationship.
But what you're not thinking about is how much more will you
have lost five years from now? If you stay in the wrong
relationship for more time, you will have lost more.
You know, there's an expression that says the further you go on
(18:47):
the wrong train, the more it cost to get home.
I was literally as you're, I waslike, I saw someone post this
online and I could not remember what the phrase was, but it was
like the journey back is yes. Yes, and I also think with this
mentality that particularly women have, we are taught that
you are not valuable or worthwhile until you are
(19:09):
married. And being married is the sign
that you're an adult. Being married, being chosen is
the sign that you have arrived, right.
We get this brainwashing from a very, very young age.
And then on top of it, the biological clock starts ticking
for women and they start thinking I don't have the agency
(19:30):
or freedom to end this relationship because I'm too old
or I've put too much into it or too much time has gone by.
But what I want to tell women isthat if you don't advocate for
yourself now and make choices that are good for you now, they
don't get easier to make later. They get harder the longer you
(19:52):
are with someone, the more you have invested once you have
changed your life to be with them, moved into a different
place, gotten married, spent money on a wedding, had
children, combined finances. It just gets harder.
So do yourself a favor and if you know that it's not right
right now. Take the leap of faith.
(20:14):
Start a new chapter for yourself.
Otherwise, 10 years from now you're going to be in a lawyer's
office paying thousands of dollars to get divorced and
wiping your kids tears away. So do it for yourself now if you
know deep down, and you do know deep down if it's the right
thing for you. You mentioned being really clear
on what you're looking for, whatyou hope for in a relationship
(20:37):
to avoid all the heartache and struggle of being set on a path
that's harder to shift later on in life.
Is there a one that is a combination of all those traits?
Is it an opposite to track situation?
Are you looking for that complete compatibility and
making sure those traits are something that you internally
have and bring to the table? How does that work as far as are
(21:00):
you looking for the exact traitsdifferent and is there that
perfect person or do you settle on some things?
There is definitely not a perfect person.
I can tell you I've worked with hundreds, maybe thousands of
couples, many of them, the majority of them who when they
got married, they thought that each other was the one.
And now they're in my office forcouples therapy.
OK, There's no such thing as theone.
(21:22):
What there is is the one you choose.
There's the one that you choose and you have to continue
choosing them over and over and over again.
And ideally you want to make a good choice.
But no matter how good your choice is, you will face
adversity in your relationship. I cannot think of any marriage
(21:48):
I've ever known, friends, family, anyone that if they were
together for long enough, there wasn't a time where they were
questioning, did I do the right thing?
OK. Marriage to me is the commitment
to stay with your partner and work it through even when you
don't feel like it, even when itfeels like it's too hard, right?
(22:11):
That is very different from in the dating phase, forcing
yourself to stay with someone who you know is not the right
fit for you. Marriage is about going through
hard things together and continuing to look at each other
and say, I continue to choose you and there's no exact one.
There's no perfect way to predict a relationship and how
(22:34):
good somebody's going to be for you.
The best that you can do is to make a values informed decision
to try to be the person that youwould want to be in relationship
with and to try to choose a person who embodies the traits
and the values that you're looking for.
And then make a go of it and stay committed to one another.
(22:55):
Continue to do self growth. Continue to do self inquiry, but
you're not going to find a path that frees you from relationship
trouble. If you're with someone long
enough, you're going to have conflict, you're going to have
disagreements, you're going to find out where you're
misaligned, and then you're going to have to make some
(23:18):
choices about what you're going to do about that.
Yeah, I, I love how you clarified there at one point,
you're choosing and committing and doing the work versus at
what point you are being really discerning about is this
compatible? We're not doing 100% commitment
because that is not the stage ofthe relationship that you're at.
And I think that can be confusing and hard because I
(23:40):
think as a society and even in relationships, we do value that
commitment. That is the sign that you care
about one another. You are committed, you want it
to work. And so I think that that nuance
and that balance of choosing in the earlier stages to not be
committed to serve both people as effectively as possible, and
then later down the line, that being that defining trait and
(24:02):
character that allows you both to thrive.
Yeah. And I think it's really
important for people to rememberthat if you're working really
hard on a relationship and you're highly committed, you
want to be doing that with someone who is the same way.
Yeah, right. So if you're dating someone and
you're finding that you're working so, so hard to make it
work, but you're not seeing thatthe other person is doing the
(24:24):
same thing, you cannot take on 100% responsibility for the
relationship and expect to get the result you want.
It requires both people. I have a couple of questions for
you about things that I think are more Gen.
Z relevant and have probably changed the kind of dating
(24:45):
environment, relationships as a whole and and shifted things.
And so I'm curious especially from a clinical context, how you
navigate these things with couples and in sessions.
The first one that I think everyone has experienced at some
point is this like pseudo psychology language becoming
super, super a mesh in dating culture and relationships.
(25:09):
I think it's hilarious when we think about from a research
perspective, like the percentageof the population that has
narcissistic personality disorder versus the number of
people that say they've dated A narcissist or have a narcissist
as a family or friend. It's like it's not possible like
that. There's no way.
And so I'm, I'm curious how thatimpacts relationships when
people are throwing out these labels or dynamics like
(25:30):
gaslighting or narcissist or you're toxic, these types of
things which hold a lot of weight, they can be really
hurtful and have huge implications.
How does that impact relationships, dynamics, dating,
all of the things? Well, first of all, I think Gen.
Z is the best generation. I think they're the most evolved
generation, which is as as it should be.
(25:53):
That's as it should be. As time goes on, people pass the
baton and you pass off what you've learned and you give it
to someone who then learns more and takes it further.
And I think Gen. Z has done that.
And I love how Gen. Z has immersed itself into
mental health culture and that'sit's so much more accessible
than it was and so much less stigma than there used to be.
Like go Gen. Z.
(26:13):
I'm grateful to Gen. Z for that.
I'm also grateful to Gen. Z for the fact that I can wear
sneakers all the time. I don't have to wear high heels
anymore in my life. Gen.
Z is the best I. Love it, I love it.
So I think this really awesome thing has happened that Gen.
Z has brought mental health culture forward and less
stigmatized. And also there is a way that it
(26:35):
is overdone, which can become problematic.
Yeah. So, you know, not everyone who
has narcissistic traits, yeah, is a narcissist, OK.
Someone getting a diagnosis of being a narcissist requires that
they have quite an extensive list of symptoms displayed for a
(26:56):
long period of time across a number of different types of
situation. Significantly impairing their
life. Yes, exactly.
So it's not about a guy who is aterrible boyfriend in one
relationship, right? That does not make 1A
narcissist. It depends what's going on long
term and over the course of their life and in lots of other
(27:18):
relationships and how much distress it's creating.
Anyway, I think it's important to know that certain traits are
narcissistic and all of us have a degree of narcissism.
Narcissism is a way that we stayalive and survive by caring
about ourselves and focusing on ourselves.
But it's not the same as being anarcissist.
(27:41):
Also, I think this is getting a lot of traction.
But it's really true that someone disagreeing with your
perspective is not the same as gas lighting.
OK, so throwing out your gas lighting me when someone is
trying to get you to see their point of view is really
counterproductive. OK, what gaslighting is, is when
(28:04):
you confront them with bad behavior, and I'm talking
abusive behavior, emotionally abusive behavior, verbally
abusive behavior, physically abusive behavior.
When that person denies that behavior and turns it around on
you and makes you feel that you are the crazy one for bringing
it up or that you are actually the one that has the problem,
(28:27):
OK, that's what gas lighting is.Gas lighting is not defending
oneself in an argument or sayinganother point of view that is
totally in disagreement with your point of view and it's
really hurtful to accuse someoneof gaslighting you.
Another thing that's not gaslighting is when someone
(28:49):
doesn't validate you. Everybody in an argument wants
to be told, I totally see your point of view, you know, that's
very validating. But when someone says I don't
see it like that at all, the wayI see it is what happened is
that's it's not gaslighting whensomeone is simply trying to
explain their perspective that is different than what yours is.
(29:13):
That's just a disagreement. Yeah.
OK. So these are some of the ways
that the words and the terminology are getting overused
and generalized. That ends up kind of making the
actual experience or word as powerful as it should be when it
needs to actually really be used.
Yeah, it becomes really diluted and normalized because it's
(29:34):
applied to contexts that are normal, even though the
definition or concept is very abnormal.
Yes. We touched on this a bit, but I
think it also relates to how we speak to people in
relationships. If you're someone who is using
those terms with your partner ortalking to your friends and in
ways that apply those labels, self sabotaging the
(29:54):
relationship, coping with thingsin a really ineffective way, I
don't think those are things that we intentionally want to
do. And I'm curious how that shows
up, especially in those early stages of relationships where
you don't have the experience torecognize those patterns or
those signals and, and how to work through those with a
partner, especially if they bring it up.
(30:15):
It's like, you keep calling me anarcissist.
My therapist isn't not a narcissist.
How do we move forward? Like how do you navigate those
dynamics where you're the one being ineffective and not bring
your best? Self to the table.
Well, I just don't think that you should be making those
judgments unless you are a trained mental health
(30:35):
professional or you have consulted with a trained mental
health professional and chat. She BT does not count, you know.
So if you are thinking that yourpartner is a narcissist, first
of all, telling them that they are a narcissist is going to do
absolutely nothing for you except potentially put you in
danger because a narcissist being told that they're a
(30:58):
narcissist is going to become a rage machine.
OK, so if you really think that your partner is a narcissist,
you should be bringing that to amentor, someone wiser, someone
with experience, you know, somebody who is more qualified
to guide you because being in relationship with a narcissist
(31:20):
is an extremely dangerous thing.I'm really not kidding.
As a woman, it is a very dangerous thing to be in a
relationship with a narcissist. It is very dangerous
emotionally. It can be very dangerous
physically. So if you're thinking that about
your partner, you need to get help, you need to get guidance
and you need to get out of that relationship.
(31:42):
So by the way, if you're tellingyour partner you're a narcissist
and you're not leaving him, thenyou're part of the problem
because that is a very serious accusation and narcissists can
be very dangerous people. So you need to check yourself,
you know, if you think that something is toxic, then you
also have to take accountabilityfor your role in the toxic
(32:05):
behavior. So a cycle cannot be toxic
without 2 participating partners.
OK. Even if your only role is that
you continue to tolerate it, then you are also part of the
toxic cycle. So you can't just say to your
partner you're toxic, you're toxic without also turning
around the mirror and looking atwhat am I doing that is
(32:28):
contributing to this toxic cycle.
So again, if you are in a position to really believe that
something is toxic, you should be seeking out help and figuring
out what you're going to do about it rather than just
blaming it all on your partner and putting it on them when they
are unlikely to see what it is you're talking about or take
(32:49):
accountability for it. I've never had a couple come
into my office and had one person say you're toxic and the
other person say. You're right.
Yeah. So sorry about Aaron talks.
My bad. I'm very, you know what I mean?
Yeah. It's never happened.
Yeah. Yeah.
So it's just not an effective way to call out a problem.
Yeah, Gen. Z loves a good energy phrase.
(33:11):
We have main character energy. We have pick me energy.
You can definitely Fact Check mehere.
Has pick me energy been a thing or is this just a Gen.
Z kind of experience? And what are your thoughts on
how that shows up in the dating world and then relationships?
Yeah, I definitely hear a lot ofmillennials talking about the
energy, too. I think it's given a label to an
(33:34):
experience that many of us have had.
Yeah. And what I don't like about it
is I don't like how judgmental it is because somebody who has
pick me energy, someone like me in my 20s is someone who is
yearning for and desperate to bechosen and desperate to be
(33:56):
loved. And no wonder we want to be
picked. Everything in our culture, in
our world tells us that as women, you have to be picked in
order to be seen as valuable andworthy.
And I mean, especially thank Godwe're not in this phase anymore.
But like, I remember being like,you know, in my mid 30s and
(34:16):
unmarried and like, have people have that sort of talk around
me. Like, what's wrong with her?
She's pretty and she's smart. Why isn't she married?
Like the the undertone was? There must be something wrong
with her, you know? I saw a TikTok clip from another
podcast where someone called in and was like, our whole friend
group is married or in significant relationships or one
(34:38):
friend is single. What do we do?
And the podcast host was like, you got to get them in or like,
here's how you get them coupled up and in a relationship.
And there was a lot of aversive responses being a why is being
single? Why do you have?
To do anything. Why do they?
Have to be OK if they're fine with it and you guys are in
Europe like why would that be the response that they have to
be in a relationship just like you are?
(35:00):
And I think it's an interesting inverse of that dynamic and also
really fascinating and how we'replacing value on individual and
then within relationships. And yeah, I just thought that
was crazy. And I'd love your thoughts on
that, if you have any opinions, because it was really
interesting. And I think that's a dynamic
that people go through as they get further into their 20s is
(35:20):
like, all my friends are in relationships and I'm not.
Yeah. And it brings up those internal
beliefs that we mentioned you can struggle with.
Yeah, all this is is what's called internalized misogyny.
So, you know, misogyny is sort of the, you know, broadly it's
the hatred of women, but we are also taught to hate aspects of
(35:42):
ourselves. And when that happens, that's
called internalized misogyny. And eating disorders happen
because of internalized misogyny.
We're taught to hate something about ourselves that makes us
feminine. And pick me, girl.
That phrase, I think, is a result of internalized misogyny.
It's labeling women for simply wanting something that the
(36:03):
culture has told them is important, and then they're
acting in a way to get it. And it's labeling them
negatively. So I like, I want to draw
attention to women and encouragethem, like be the chooser rather
than the one trying to be chosen.
But at the same time, we have toempower women to do the
(36:23):
choosing, not label them and criticize and make them feel bad
because they're not in that place of empowerment yet.
Yes 100% I love that. I want to talk about another
online popular piece of relationship advice which is the
let them theory. You just let others do their
thing. What are your thoughts on that
(36:43):
as a couples therapist, as a relationship expert?
Is that how we should be blanketapproach especially these like
intimate very important relationships to us?
Is that what we should be be doing in our day-to-day lives?
Look, I think there's a time anda place.
I think the theory definitely has legs and it's useful in a
(37:03):
lot of situations. But like most things in life,
it's not that black and white. As a couples therapist, you
know, a lot of my time is spent helping people engage in
conflict resolution. The Let them theory doesn't have
a ton of space for that. And I just encourage people
before you accept that a need won't be met and you go off and
(37:26):
you decide what to do about it yourself.
How about have a conversation with your partner to see if the
need can be met so you can say something like, you know, when
you don't text me for a couple days and I don't hear from you,
it makes me feel like I'm not a priority and I'm just a person
that I would like more contact in between our dates.
(37:46):
And then that person has the opportunity to either change
their behavior because they wantyou to feel like you are a
priority and they're glad to getthat feedback.
And it's like, oh, texting is like, so not important to me,
but now that I know that it's important to you, we like I can,
I can throw you a text because you definitely give.
Yeah, I. The cup pong on that, yeah.
(38:07):
Like you are important to me andso I want you to feel that way.
Yeah, easy, easy peasy. You don't just have to be like,
oh, he doesn't text me. Let him and edit.
You know, you can ask for your need to be met.
You want to do it in a way that is focused on yourself, not
them. So when you do this, I feel, you
know, like I'm not a priority instead of you never make me a
(38:30):
priority. You never text me, you never did
it. That's just blame and criticism,
right? That does that automatically
puts your partner in a state of defensiveness.
You're not going to get what youwant.
But if you can be vulnerable andsay, this is what I experienced,
this is what I need, and this ishow it would make me feel to get
it, I would really feel like I was important to you, you know,
(38:50):
so try to get your needs met. But then there are some
situations in life where you can't change a person.
You're not in control of a person, and they're not going to
change their behavior because ofyou.
And it's those situations that I'm like, thank you, Mel
Robbins. Let them.
Because all you can do is have control over how you respond and
(39:12):
what you're going to do, and continuing to spend your energy
trying to get someone to change who doesn't want to change and
who isn't going to change is just letting a very short life
pass you by. Yeah, love some DBT, non
attachment, certain contacts. I think you mentioned earlier
also how important choosing the person making that commitment
(39:32):
is. And I think accepting these
things where your needs aren't met and it does cause an
emotional response or you're notfeeling seen, heard, understood,
whatever it is, puts a lot of the burden of the relationship
on one person to do the work, tonot have a reaction versus like
you're saying, can I at least try and problem solve this?
(39:53):
Can we try and do this together?And if this isn't something that
can be worked through, OK, what can I do?
But if you're approaching every single thing in a relationship
is how can I change myself to make this work versus how can we
both together find a happy medium that's effective?
I think that would be so incredibly isolating and
exhausting. Interesting and miserable to
(40:14):
approach a lifelong relationshipin that way.
And unfulfilling. Satisfying.
Yeah, 100%. Another thing that I see people
talking about, especially depending on what their values
are, is like dating to date and dating to Mary.
And I'm curious what your thoughts are on that as a
concept. Do you recommend that people
(40:35):
just approach relationships withneither of those intentions and
see how it goes? Do you think that you should be
like very type A intellectualizing I'm dating to
marry. Here's my list.
Are we compatible or do we move on?
Like what are your thoughts on that concept?
And even just putting that much pressure on this aspect of your
life because we talked about like achievement and setting
(40:55):
good goals for ourselves. It'd be wild if you're like, I'm
just going to educate myself, but not be like, I'm going to be
a college graduate. Like you are aware of the
outcome, so you work towards it.So I can see them there in both.
And I'm curious as a clinician, is it just creating more issues
and putting too many expectations on something that
has to be organic? Or can it be effective for
people to have clarity on what they're looking for?
(41:18):
I think that's the big thing is know what you want, right?
There doesn't have to be some big set of rules about it, but I
think you owe it to yourself andalso the people that you're
engaging with to know what you're looking for.
Yeah. If you're looking for a good
time. Yeah.
You know, the other person deserves to know that because
what if they're not just lookingfor a good time?
(41:41):
We, we are an interconnected society, and it's not just about
what's best for us. Yeah.
Now I think it's helpful for us to know what we're looking for
because then we can have appropriate standards and, and
put them in place for what it iswe're looking for.
But don't we also owe it to the people that we're engaging with?
Like, when I was dating and wanted to get married, I didn't
(42:03):
want to date a guy that was justlooking to hook up.
Yeah. And he needed to be able to know
that and say that to me, you know?
So I think we owe it to ourselves and to others to know
what we're looking for. And it is true when you're
looking for something specific. It does change how you show up
in the experience for sure. No, it's like applying to a full
time role and being like I'm part time 2 hours a day please
(42:25):
in the absolutely not like that's not how this works.
And so I think those expectations upfront and also I
imagine if you are looking for that longer term commitment, how
the person responds to that, if you can communicate, it is very
telling and effective as just anexercise to do to practice that
dynamic. The last thing that I wanted to
ask you is about Genz not dating.
(42:47):
Genz is dating less than previous generations, both in
like younger teenage first date type of vibes, but also in
serious relationships in collegeand in their 20s.
And there are some positive outcomes, like I think teen
pregnancy rates are lower. So many people, there's a lot of
theories about why that is. Is it good or bad?
What are your thoughts as someone who's focusing on
(43:09):
relationships? Is it a negative that we're not
having this practice and being in these dynamics and not
putting ourselves out there? Like, what do you think about
that dynamic? And should Gen.
Z be doing something differently?
I think Gen. Z needs to keep doing Gen.
Z. You know, we're not going to
change a cultural phenomenon just because people who are
older think it should be different.
And I don't even think it shouldbe different.
(43:31):
I think that there, it's probably really complex how Gen.
Z has arrived at this. But like Gen.
Z, you guys literally do not know a world where people
primarily communicated face to face or on the phone, right?
And So what you have learned to need and how to function in
relationships is very, very different than, for example, me,
(43:55):
right? And you guys are dealing with an
entirely different economy structure, an entirely different
political system, and you're making choices accordingly.
I think we just need to trust young people that they're doing
what is best for them and it's all going to play out.
We don't have enough informationyet to know where this is going
(44:17):
to go. Are people just going to marry
later in life maybe, or are people going to decide being
single is really, and having that independence is what makes
me happy. Are are people going to keep
buying houses with their friends?
Because that's what's happening a lot now is like, I can't
afford to buy a house, so I'm just going to buy a house with
friends if I want to have the American dream.
The American dream looks different these days.
You know, I think the big thing is like really trusting in young
(44:41):
people that they are wise, they're making the best choices
for them. We will see how this all plays
out. And however we got here, we did
whatever we were doing to get ushere.
You know, it was it's people before you that made the
choices, that lined you up and gave you this world that's being
handed to you that honestly is very broken and damaged.
(45:03):
And you guys are in a position to be trying to make the best
out of a bad deal. That's what I really think.
And so I just trust Gen. Z and young people to do them,
and they're doing it well. If you trust the process but
also could equip Gen. Z with a piece of wisdom or
nugget or something to keep in mind as they are navigating
(45:26):
relationships would be so scary,overwhelming, and knew.
What do you wish people knew as they are navigating these
experiences? I do wish that Gen.
Z had more experience talking toeach other face to face.
Yes, you know, I know I have a niece who is 22, and whenever
she wants to talk to me about something that seems important,
you know, I'll always go to callher and she'll just text me and
(45:48):
say, can we just text? And it'll be about like
something really deep, like vulnerable and emotional.
And she just wants to text aboutit.
And I totally get it. That's the way that it's done.
But I also like really want people to learn how to talk to
each other, not through a screen, because something is
(46:08):
lost and we are losing the way that we connect with each other
when there is. Imagine if there were a screen
between the two of us. It changes the dynamic. 100%,
we'll have to do a Zoom interview for Part 2 and compare
and contrast and be like, hey guys, we did the research, let
you know if people want to continue to follow along with
your work, keep up with all the amazing things you're doing.
(46:29):
Where can they do that? I'd love for them to follow me
on Instagram. My handle is at Doctor Molly
Burritz, which is DRMOLLYBURRETS.
And if you do that, then you'll get all the information about
the launch of my podcast, which is coming out in the next couple
of months, and I'd love people to listen to that.
Amazing. I will go ahead and put a link
(46:50):
to all that in the show notes. Thank you so much for joining
me. I'm so glad we got to do this.
Thanks for having me, Sadie. I hope you guys loved that
conversation as much as I did. It made something that felt so
abstract and overwhelming feel very tangible and doable and
understand what you're bringing to the table and how to do that
in an effective way. Dating and relationships can
(47:10):
really bring up so much self doubt.
But as Doctor Burritz explained,it's not about being broken or
unlovable. It's about understanding your
patterns and learning what healthy relationships actually
look like. So if there's one thing you
remember from this episode, I hope it's that your past doesn't
have to define your future. Once you recognize those blind
spots, you can choose differently and that is where
(47:31):
the real change. Starts.
So if this episode resonates with you, it would mean the
world to me. If you leave a review on Apple
Podcast or Spotify, it helps more people find the show and
listen to these episodes, which I have so much fun creating for
you. And if you send me a screenshot
on Instagram and at She Persisted podcast, you will be
entered into this month's coffeegiveaway to win a gift card to
(47:53):
get a coffee on me. So make sure to do that.
Also answer the Q&A on Spotify below.
This episode, tell me your biggest relationship take away.
I love reading your reflections and weaving them into future
topics and things that I talked about on the podcast in the
future. All of Doctor Burrett's links
and resources are in the show notes or at She Persisted
(48:13):
podcast.com. Thank you guys so much for
listening. If you enjoyed this episode.
If she persisted, make sure to leave a review, subscribe and
share with a friend or family member.
Follow along at at She Persistedpodcast on TikTok, Instagram,
YouTube, and more for bonus content.
Thanks for listening and keep persisting.
Welcome to She Persisted, the Gen.
Z mental health podcast. I'm your host, Sadie Sutton.
Let's get into it. I want to start with the number
one thing not to do when you're picking a partner.
What I want to tell women is that if you are thinking that
your partner is a narcissist, ifyou want to have a lifelong
relationship, if you're dating someone and you're working so
(00:21):
hard to make it work, but you'renot seeing the other person is
doing the same thing. There are some situations in
life where you can't change person and they're not going to
change their behavior because ofyou.
And it's those situations that I'm like.
Hello, hello and welcome back toShe Persisted.
Let's be honest, dating right now feels pretty much
impossible. If you've ever thought, why do I
(00:43):
keep attracting the same kind ofpeople?
Am I doing something wrong this episode?
Is for you. Today I'm joined by Doctor Molly
Burritt, A clinical psychologistand adjunct professor in US CS
Department of Marriage and Family Therapy.
Her specialties include couples therapy and women's issues, and
she is breaking down the hidden patterns that might be
preventing you from finding and keeping healthy relationships.
(01:05):
We talk about how family dynamics growing up can shape
your dating life, why we stay inrelationships that aren't
working, and how to actually figure out what you want in a
partner. We also unpack some of the
buzziest Tik toks in the dating sphere right now, like
narcissist gaslighting, therapy speak, the Let them theory, and
even whether Gen. Z is actually dating less than
(01:26):
other generations and if that's a bad thing.
So by the end of this, you will understand not just how to
attract a healthy relationship, but how to build one that lasts.
So let's dive in. Thank you so much for joining me
on Cheaper Assisted. I'm so excited to have you here
to talk about all things relationships.
I think we're going to touch on a lot of things that people have
either first hand experience tried seen online.
(01:48):
We're going to debunk some things.
We're going to talk about some best practices because as I say
on the podcast all the time, thelike end all be all.
One thing we need in our life isrelationships and healthy
relationships. And if we can do that
effectively and not have that beanother source of stress and
drama in our lives, I think we're we're doing things right.
So thank you so much for joiningme.
I'm thrilled to be here. Thanks for having me.
(02:09):
If we could start with a little bit of background, how did you
decide to get into psychology, go down this track, become
interested in relationships because there's obviously so
many directions you can go if somany experts and fresh is on the
podcast. So what show you to
relationships and to this area specifically?
Yeah, well, I'm from a really big family, and my family has a
(02:31):
lot of love and also a lot of chaos.
And my sort of strength in life always have been that I really
enjoy school, I'm really good atschool.
And it made sense to me at the time, you know, from as young as
in high school, to try to understand the dynamics in my
family and the relationships in my family and the dysfunction in
(02:55):
my family by applying my academic learning to it.
So I have always sort of tried to understand my own life, my
own family, and my own upbringing through the academic
lens, which is why I became a clinical psychologist.
And probably not surprisingly, as someone who came from a
chaotic family in my 20s and early 30s, I had a lot of
dysfunctional romantic relationships.
(03:17):
I had a lot of chaos in in my life.
And I think people always think,you know, I specialize in
couples therapy. People always think that couples
therapists have perfect relationships.
And while I'm in a very healthy,wonderful marriage now, it took
a long time to get there. And I was a therapist throughout
this whole time. So it took some time to, you
(03:39):
know, apply my academic learningreally to myself and do the
healing that I needed to do to have a good relationship.
And I like to say that a lot of what I learned, I learned the
hard way. Yeah, You mentioned something
there that I was like, wait a minute.
This is not necessarily common universal knowledge.
And if you are in like a first serious relationship or just
(04:01):
starting to like, really date people in a more serious way, it
might not be something you're aware of, but you should be.
Which is that our romantic relationships and our love life
can reflect different dynamics and patterns that you experience
growing up, which like, some people are like, Oh yeah, duh,
of course, others like, why on earth would those two things be
(04:22):
connected? Can you explain that of why that
might be something that comes upfor people?
There's like so many different theories and explanations, but
like, why is that even a thing? Yeah.
Well, between the ages of zero and five, our brain does the
most growing it does in our lifetime.
I mean, the amount of growing that the brain does between zero
and five far, far out exceeds the amount of growing that it
(04:45):
does between, say, 5 and 30. OK.
So this is called a really critical window of time, and the
brain is doing a lot of learningbased on what they're
experiencing and what they're seeing about templates for
relationships and typically the relationships that we have with
(05:05):
our primary caregivers, for somepeople, that's a mom and a dad,
but not for all people. But the relationships there,
they form a template. And as we become older, we
unconsciously seek out what is familiar to us.
So actually, even if something has been a painful experience,
(05:26):
the fact that it is familiar is what will draw us to that
experience. And we often find ourselves in
relationships with people who have traits or who the pattern
mirrors that which we experienced as young children.
And I know that that was certainly the case for me.
Yeah, I, I think it's helpful tojust like, accept it as truth
(05:47):
that even though we like to think that we're doing what's
best for ourselves, a lot of theways that we're wired are really
ineffective and just understanding, OK, as humans, we
are wired to not change and conserve energy, even though
both those things are good for us.
And also we are so, so, so loss aversive and resisting change.
(06:08):
We have so much research on that.
Even if it's painful or uncomfortable, we'll stay
instead of experiencing something new.
Similarly, if we have something we don't want to lose, we'd see
it as more valuable than this other thing, even if objectively
that's not remotely the case whatsoever.
And so understanding that like the way you're perceiving the
situation might not be accurate,and not just because you like
(06:30):
feel a certain way about it, butliterally you're wired to keep
these things and not change them.
And you're not wrong for like experiencing it that way, but
it's something to be aware of asfar as a bias when we're
thinking about these things thatare so, so, so important, like
our relationships. And some of the most important
biases we have are the ones thatwe have about ourselves.
(06:52):
So we tell ourselves or we believe we have these core
beliefs about ourselves based onour experiences that are not
actually true. You know, and for me, one of
mine was, you know, I have to get someone to choose me because
nobody is just going to choose me on their own.
I have to work really hard and try really hard to experience
(07:15):
somebody loving me. And, you know, when I really was
able to challenge and confront that belief and start acting in
a way that was more focused on me choosing who I wanted as a
partner versus getting chosen bysomeone, my whole life really
started to transform. Yeah, it would be great if there
(07:35):
was like 1 universal of those for all of them.
We could all be aware of it, butit's so different.
And through all of the therapy and all the self reflection and,
and working on how are these beliefs showing up for me?
Like that core belief that was impacting everything and
everyone in my life was I don't deserve love.
Love can be there, but it's conditional and understanding
(07:55):
that those biases, even if they're about yourself, are
impacting like all these external factors.
And so I'm curious how that shows up in relationships
because even as we talk about them, it's like, well, it's a
belief about me. Like the other person doesn't
hold it, but it does have a really huge impact on how you're
approaching dating, how you showup in relationships, if you are
(08:16):
even putting yourself out there.So how do those potentially not
true or maladaptive or ineffective beliefs impact our
love lives, our romantic relationships, those
connections? Well, let me tell the listeners
how it looked for me, and then hopefully they'll be able to
apply that to their own lives because it's different for
everyone. But here was my situation.
(08:38):
I have incredibly loving parents, incredibly loving
parents. And because they had very
difficult lives themselves as children and as adults, their
primary motivation was to set meup and my siblings to have a
life that was better and different than theirs.
And so they focused on creating opportunity for us.
(09:01):
And this really worked. Look at me sitting here.
I'm a clinical psychologist. I have the highest degree that
one can attain in the most developed country in the world,
right? So my parents really did the
thing, you know, And I'm so grateful to them for that.
What an act of love. But in prioritizing creating
opportunities for us, what endedup happening in our house is
(09:21):
that there were a lot of factorscompeting for their resources.
And I'm talking about things like time, attention, food,
energy availability. And my parents were working
really, really hard. And this is what happens when
there is systemic oppression, right?
(09:41):
Like when people need to be focused on getting food on the
table. Parents have to put a lot of
time and energy into making thathappen.
And my parents absolutely did. And we also had other family
members in our realm that neededa lot of care, that had
problems. And my parents were putting a
lot of attention and energy intothe care of other people.
(10:02):
And so I just didn't have the experience of having really
available caregivers. What I had were parents who were
very loving, vocal about how much they loved me, did things
that showed that they love me, right by creating opportunity
for me. But emotionally, I wasn't able
to really find them. I didn't have access to them.
(10:25):
They had other priorities that meant that I didn't just get
time with my parents. I didn't get attention, you
know, and I developed this belief that people can really,
really love you and not be available for you.
And so you have to do things to get people's attention that love
(10:45):
you. For me, it was achievement.
I decided I'm going to be the kid in the family that's going
to do everything, achieve everything.
Class president, valedictorian, you know, full scholarship to
college, get a PhD, all these things, things that still
motivate my life toward achievement.
And if I do all these things, then I'll get attention, right?
(11:07):
And that was one of my coping strategies as an adult.
In my 20s, I found myself in a series of relationships where I
was with someone who said that they loved me, who on the
surface it seemed like they loved me and it seemed like a
good relationship. But for one reason or another, I
never really had access to that person.
(11:30):
Whether it was that they had a commitment problem and didn't
know that they wanted to marry me despite being together for a
long time, telling me they lovedme more than they loved anyone
else in their life and it was the best relationship they had
ever been in. But I don't know if I want to
marry you. So these people who, on the
surface, it looked like everything was good.
(11:50):
It looked like I had love, but Iwas behind the scenes working
overtime trying to get picked, trying to get chosen by these
people who couldn't actually be available for me for the kind of
relationship that I wanted. And that's how this has played
out for me in my lifetime. And it took a lot of effort and
(12:11):
energy and healing to turn around this experience.
So if we're aware of beliefs that might be impacting how
we're approaching this or what we're looking for in
relationships, if we're able to not necessarily overcome because
it's a lifelong journey in thoseexperiences can be so pivotal
(12:31):
and influential for the rest of our lives.
But if we're like, OK, I'm awareof this, I'm doing the internal
work. What is the external and
probably internal as well process look like for finding a
partner mate selection like you mentioned earlier, before we
began, how do we approach that? And we're all doing this for the
first time. Everyone would like a a set of
rules and a playbook, but I think a lot of it instead is
(12:54):
trial and error. And I'm sure both through the
research and experience and yourcareer, like we're going about
this wrong, especially in these early days in your teens, your
20s. How should we be approaching
this to be effective, to be aware of these lived experiences
that might be influencing thingsbut also have the end result
that we want, which is a relationship where you feel seen
(13:16):
and heard and understood and supported and have all those
needs met in a really healthy. Way.
Yeah, that's a great question. I want to start with the number
one thing not to do when you're picking a partner, OK?
And the number one thing not to do is make your choice based on
the feeling of falling in love. Now, I'm not telling you that
(13:40):
you should settle for a partner that you're not in love with.
Please don't get it twisted. But the feeling of falling in
love effects our neurotransmitters in the brain
in the same way that cocaine does, OK, So you are in a
clouded state of judgement, OK? And that feeling is really
(14:02):
important and wonderful to have in the beginning of a
relationship, especially. And if it's important to you, I
don't want you to make it unimportant.
But what I want you to do is make it not the only thing, OK?
Because if you want to have a relationship, a lifelong
relationship, then you have to be thinking about a long life
(14:27):
and who are you going to be and what is going to be important to
you in 1020, thirty, 4050 years.The feeling of falling in love
is really, really important at the beginning and we want to
always be able to come back to that feeling.
But I can promise you it's not going to be the number one most
important thing to you when you have a toddler and an infant and
(14:52):
a full time job and you're trying to figure out the
business of making a life work. OK, the things that are going to
be meaningful to you, and I think they're different person
to person, but what a lot of people need and want to have are
things like commitment. Someone with excellent character
(15:13):
integrity, someone who knows howto go through hard things and
stay loyal and focused, someone with grit and resilience,
someone who is going to be an excellent caregiver.
And I also tell people, don't marry anyone that you wouldn't
go into business with because marriage and life is a business
(15:34):
and you find yourself being teammates with that person.
So if you can't trust that person with decision making,
with money, with executive planning, why would you marry
that person? Because that's what your life is
going to be. It's not going to be going on
dates and falling in love and getting ice cream together for
the rest of your life. Those will end up little
(15:56):
beautiful experiences that dot your life, but they're not the
stuff of life. And so you have to give yourself
time beyond the falling in love phase to experience a person and
who they are with sort of betterjudgment and make sure that they
have the character and the quality and the traits that
(16:17):
you're looking for to sustain a long term relationship.
Yeah. I mean, as you lay out those
things that are important to consider and prioritize, it's so
fascinating because I don't think anyone is entering or
staying in a relationship because it doesn't work, right?
Like you, you want it to work, you think it will work.
(16:38):
And yet we struggle to objectively look for those
traits. Think about what this will be
like down the line and either end relationships based on that
not being compatible or selecting people, choosing
people, seeking out people that are compatible with those goals
and values. And so I'm curious what your
thoughts on there. If people, I think they want the
(16:59):
best for themselves, they want stability, they want a future,
and yet that doesn't happen. In so many.
Relationships and not just like,oh, this is different than I
thought it would be, but then people will stay in these
relationships for years and years and years.
Why isn't it so simple and objective to be like, okay,
here's what I want and this isn't it.
So not moving. Forward Well, First things
first, people have to take a look at themselves and
(17:22):
accurately determine whether they embody all of the
relationship traits that they'relooking for in another person.
We're often looking at what doesthe other person have?
What can they bring to my life? But if you don't have those
traits yourself, something is going to get caught up, OK?
And you're going to experience problems in the relationship.
(17:44):
So don't automatically just go to the other person and decide
that something is wrong with them.
You have to engage in a lot of self inquiry and find out, this
is what I'm looking for in a partner.
Here are 50 things I'm looking for right down your list.
And then ask yourself, how many of those things do I have and
how many am I missing? And you need to fill in the
(18:04):
blanks to set yourself up right?But another reason why we stay
in relationships where it's not always there, it's called the
sunk cost fallacy. We have invested something into
the relationship and we think I have to stay in it because look
at all that I've invested in it.And I'll lose all of this.
(18:27):
Yes, I will lose all of this if I end this relationship.
But what you're not thinking about is how much more will you
have lost five years from now? If you stay in the wrong
relationship for more time, you will have lost more.
You know, there's an expression that says the further you go on
(18:47):
the wrong train, the more it cost to get home.
I was literally as you're, I waslike, I saw someone post this
online and I could not remember what the phrase was, but it was
like the journey back is yes. Yes, and I also think with this
mentality that particularly women have, we are taught that
you are not valuable or worthwhile until you are
(19:09):
married. And being married is the sign
that you're an adult. Being married, being chosen is
the sign that you have arrived, right.
We get this brainwashing from a very, very young age.
And then on top of it, the biological clock starts ticking
for women and they start thinking I don't have the agency
(19:30):
or freedom to end this relationship because I'm too old
or I've put too much into it or too much time has gone by.
But what I want to tell women isthat if you don't advocate for
yourself now and make choices that are good for you now, they
don't get easier to make later. They get harder the longer you
(19:52):
are with someone, the more you have invested once you have
changed your life to be with them, moved into a different
place, gotten married, spent money on a wedding, had
children, combined finances. It just gets harder.
So do yourself a favor and if you know that it's not right
right now. Take the leap of faith.
(20:14):
Start a new chapter for yourself.
Otherwise, 10 years from now you're going to be in a lawyer's
office paying thousands of dollars to get divorced and
wiping your kids tears away. So do it for yourself now if you
know deep down, and you do know deep down if it's the right
thing for you. You mentioned being really clear
on what you're looking for, whatyou hope for in a relationship
(20:37):
to avoid all the heartache and struggle of being set on a path
that's harder to shift later on in life.
Is there a one that is a combination of all those traits?
Is it an opposite to track situation?
Are you looking for that complete compatibility and
making sure those traits are something that you internally
have and bring to the table? How does that work as far as are
(21:00):
you looking for the exact traitsdifferent and is there that
perfect person or do you settle on some things?
There is definitely not a perfect person.
I can tell you I've worked with hundreds, maybe thousands of
couples, many of them, the majority of them who when they
got married, they thought that each other was the one.
And now they're in my office forcouples therapy.
OK, There's no such thing as theone.
(21:22):
What there is is the one you choose.
There's the one that you choose and you have to continue
choosing them over and over and over again.
And ideally you want to make a good choice.
But no matter how good your choice is, you will face
adversity in your relationship. I cannot think of any marriage
(21:48):
I've ever known, friends, family, anyone that if they were
together for long enough, there wasn't a time where they were
questioning, did I do the right thing?
OK. Marriage to me is the commitment
to stay with your partner and work it through even when you
don't feel like it, even when itfeels like it's too hard, right?
(22:11):
That is very different from in the dating phase, forcing
yourself to stay with someone who you know is not the right
fit for you. Marriage is about going through
hard things together and continuing to look at each other
and say, I continue to choose you and there's no exact one.
There's no perfect way to predict a relationship and how
(22:34):
good somebody's going to be for you.
The best that you can do is to make a values informed decision
to try to be the person that youwould want to be in relationship
with and to try to choose a person who embodies the traits
and the values that you're looking for.
And then make a go of it and stay committed to one another.
(22:55):
Continue to do self growth. Continue to do self inquiry, but
you're not going to find a path that frees you from relationship
trouble. If you're with someone long
enough, you're going to have conflict, you're going to have
disagreements, you're going to find out where you're
misaligned, and then you're going to have to make some
(23:18):
choices about what you're going to do about that.
Yeah, I, I love how you clarified there at one point,
you're choosing and committing and doing the work versus at
what point you are being really discerning about is this
compatible? We're not doing 100% commitment
because that is not the stage ofthe relationship that you're at.
And I think that can be confusing and hard because I
(23:40):
think as a society and even in relationships, we do value that
commitment. That is the sign that you care
about one another. You are committed, you want it
to work. And so I think that that nuance
and that balance of choosing in the earlier stages to not be
committed to serve both people as effectively as possible, and
then later down the line, that being that defining trait and
(24:02):
character that allows you both to thrive.
Yeah. And I think it's really
important for people to rememberthat if you're working really
hard on a relationship and you're highly committed, you
want to be doing that with someone who is the same way.
Yeah, right. So if you're dating someone and
you're finding that you're working so, so hard to make it
work, but you're not seeing thatthe other person is doing the
(24:24):
same thing, you cannot take on 100% responsibility for the
relationship and expect to get the result you want.
It requires both people. I have a couple of questions for
you about things that I think are more Gen.
Z relevant and have probably changed the kind of dating
(24:45):
environment, relationships as a whole and and shifted things.
And so I'm curious especially from a clinical context, how you
navigate these things with couples and in sessions.
The first one that I think everyone has experienced at some
point is this like pseudo psychology language becoming
super, super a mesh in dating culture and relationships.
(25:09):
I think it's hilarious when we think about from a research
perspective, like the percentageof the population that has
narcissistic personality disorder versus the number of
people that say they've dated A narcissist or have a narcissist
as a family or friend. It's like it's not possible like
that. There's no way.
And so I'm, I'm curious how thatimpacts relationships when
people are throwing out these labels or dynamics like
(25:30):
gaslighting or narcissist or you're toxic, these types of
things which hold a lot of weight, they can be really
hurtful and have huge implications.
How does that impact relationships, dynamics, dating,
all of the things? Well, first of all, I think Gen.
Z is the best generation. I think they're the most evolved
generation, which is as as it should be.
(25:53):
That's as it should be. As time goes on, people pass the
baton and you pass off what you've learned and you give it
to someone who then learns more and takes it further.
And I think Gen. Z has done that.
And I love how Gen. Z has immersed itself into
mental health culture and that'sit's so much more accessible
than it was and so much less stigma than there used to be.
Like go Gen. Z.
(26:13):
I'm grateful to Gen. Z for that.
I'm also grateful to Gen. Z for the fact that I can wear
sneakers all the time. I don't have to wear high heels
anymore in my life. Gen.
Z is the best I. Love it, I love it.
So I think this really awesome thing has happened that Gen.
Z has brought mental health culture forward and less
stigmatized. And also there is a way that it
(26:35):
is overdone, which can become problematic.
Yeah. So, you know, not everyone who
has narcissistic traits, yeah, is a narcissist, OK.
Someone getting a diagnosis of being a narcissist requires that
they have quite an extensive list of symptoms displayed for a
(26:56):
long period of time across a number of different types of
situation. Significantly impairing their
life. Yes, exactly.
So it's not about a guy who is aterrible boyfriend in one
relationship, right? That does not make 1A
narcissist. It depends what's going on long
term and over the course of their life and in lots of other
(27:18):
relationships and how much distress it's creating.
Anyway, I think it's important to know that certain traits are
narcissistic and all of us have a degree of narcissism.
Narcissism is a way that we stayalive and survive by caring
about ourselves and focusing on ourselves.
But it's not the same as being anarcissist.
(27:41):
Also, I think this is getting a lot of traction.
But it's really true that someone disagreeing with your
perspective is not the same as gas lighting.
OK, so throwing out your gas lighting me when someone is
trying to get you to see their point of view is really
counterproductive. OK, what gaslighting is, is when
(28:04):
you confront them with bad behavior, and I'm talking
abusive behavior, emotionally abusive behavior, verbally
abusive behavior, physically abusive behavior.
When that person denies that behavior and turns it around on
you and makes you feel that you are the crazy one for bringing
it up or that you are actually the one that has the problem,
(28:27):
OK, that's what gas lighting is.Gas lighting is not defending
oneself in an argument or sayinganother point of view that is
totally in disagreement with your point of view and it's
really hurtful to accuse someoneof gaslighting you.
Another thing that's not gaslighting is when someone
(28:49):
doesn't validate you. Everybody in an argument wants
to be told, I totally see your point of view, you know, that's
very validating. But when someone says I don't
see it like that at all, the wayI see it is what happened is
that's it's not gaslighting whensomeone is simply trying to
explain their perspective that is different than what yours is.
(29:13):
That's just a disagreement. Yeah.
OK. So these are some of the ways
that the words and the terminology are getting overused
and generalized. That ends up kind of making the
actual experience or word as powerful as it should be when it
needs to actually really be used.
Yeah, it becomes really diluted and normalized because it's
(29:34):
applied to contexts that are normal, even though the
definition or concept is very abnormal.
Yes. We touched on this a bit, but I
think it also relates to how we speak to people in
relationships. If you're someone who is using
those terms with your partner ortalking to your friends and in
ways that apply those labels, self sabotaging the
(29:54):
relationship, coping with thingsin a really ineffective way, I
don't think those are things that we intentionally want to
do. And I'm curious how that shows
up, especially in those early stages of relationships where
you don't have the experience torecognize those patterns or
those signals and, and how to work through those with a
partner, especially if they bring it up.
(30:15):
It's like, you keep calling me anarcissist.
My therapist isn't not a narcissist.
How do we move forward? Like how do you navigate those
dynamics where you're the one being ineffective and not bring
your best? Self to the table.
Well, I just don't think that you should be making those
judgments unless you are a trained mental health
(30:35):
professional or you have consulted with a trained mental
health professional and chat. She BT does not count, you know.
So if you are thinking that yourpartner is a narcissist, first
of all, telling them that they are a narcissist is going to do
absolutely nothing for you except potentially put you in
danger because a narcissist being told that they're a
(30:58):
narcissist is going to become a rage machine.
OK, so if you really think that your partner is a narcissist,
you should be bringing that to amentor, someone wiser, someone
with experience, you know, somebody who is more qualified
to guide you because being in relationship with a narcissist
(31:20):
is an extremely dangerous thing.I'm really not kidding.
As a woman, it is a very dangerous thing to be in a
relationship with a narcissist. It is very dangerous
emotionally. It can be very dangerous
physically. So if you're thinking that about
your partner, you need to get help, you need to get guidance
and you need to get out of that relationship.
(31:42):
So by the way, if you're tellingyour partner you're a narcissist
and you're not leaving him, thenyou're part of the problem
because that is a very serious accusation and narcissists can
be very dangerous people. So you need to check yourself,
you know, if you think that something is toxic, then you
also have to take accountabilityfor your role in the toxic
(32:05):
behavior. So a cycle cannot be toxic
without 2 participating partners.
OK. Even if your only role is that
you continue to tolerate it, then you are also part of the
toxic cycle. So you can't just say to your
partner you're toxic, you're toxic without also turning
around the mirror and looking atwhat am I doing that is
(32:28):
contributing to this toxic cycle.
So again, if you are in a position to really believe that
something is toxic, you should be seeking out help and figuring
out what you're going to do about it rather than just
blaming it all on your partner and putting it on them when they
are unlikely to see what it is you're talking about or take
(32:49):
accountability for it. I've never had a couple come
into my office and had one person say you're toxic and the
other person say. You're right.
Yeah. So sorry about Aaron talks.
My bad. I'm very, you know what I mean?
Yeah. It's never happened.
Yeah. Yeah.
So it's just not an effective way to call out a problem.
Yeah, Gen. Z loves a good energy phrase.
(33:11):
We have main character energy. We have pick me energy.
You can definitely Fact Check mehere.
Has pick me energy been a thing or is this just a Gen.
Z kind of experience? And what are your thoughts on
how that shows up in the dating world and then relationships?
Yeah, I definitely hear a lot ofmillennials talking about the
energy, too. I think it's given a label to an
(33:34):
experience that many of us have had.
Yeah. And what I don't like about it
is I don't like how judgmental it is because somebody who has
pick me energy, someone like me in my 20s is someone who is
yearning for and desperate to bechosen and desperate to be
(33:56):
loved. And no wonder we want to be
picked. Everything in our culture, in
our world tells us that as women, you have to be picked in
order to be seen as valuable andworthy.
And I mean, especially thank Godwe're not in this phase anymore.
But like, I remember being like,you know, in my mid 30s and
(34:16):
unmarried and like, have people have that sort of talk around
me. Like, what's wrong with her?
She's pretty and she's smart. Why isn't she married?
Like the the undertone was? There must be something wrong
with her, you know? I saw a TikTok clip from another
podcast where someone called in and was like, our whole friend
group is married or in significant relationships or one
(34:38):
friend is single. What do we do?
And the podcast host was like, you got to get them in or like,
here's how you get them coupled up and in a relationship.
And there was a lot of aversive responses being a why is being
single? Why do you have?
To do anything. Why do they?
Have to be OK if they're fine with it and you guys are in
Europe like why would that be the response that they have to
be in a relationship just like you are?
(35:00):
And I think it's an interesting inverse of that dynamic and also
really fascinating and how we'replacing value on individual and
then within relationships. And yeah, I just thought that
was crazy. And I'd love your thoughts on
that, if you have any opinions, because it was really
interesting. And I think that's a dynamic
that people go through as they get further into their 20s is
(35:20):
like, all my friends are in relationships and I'm not.
Yeah. And it brings up those internal
beliefs that we mentioned you can struggle with.
Yeah, all this is is what's called internalized misogyny.
So, you know, misogyny is sort of the, you know, broadly it's
the hatred of women, but we are also taught to hate aspects of
(35:42):
ourselves. And when that happens, that's
called internalized misogyny. And eating disorders happen
because of internalized misogyny.
We're taught to hate something about ourselves that makes us
feminine. And pick me, girl.
That phrase, I think, is a result of internalized misogyny.
It's labeling women for simply wanting something that the
(36:03):
culture has told them is important, and then they're
acting in a way to get it. And it's labeling them
negatively. So I like, I want to draw
attention to women and encouragethem, like be the chooser rather
than the one trying to be chosen.
But at the same time, we have toempower women to do the
(36:23):
choosing, not label them and criticize and make them feel bad
because they're not in that place of empowerment yet.
Yes 100% I love that. I want to talk about another
online popular piece of relationship advice which is the
let them theory. You just let others do their
thing. What are your thoughts on that
(36:43):
as a couples therapist, as a relationship expert?
Is that how we should be blanketapproach especially these like
intimate very important relationships to us?
Is that what we should be be doing in our day-to-day lives?
Look, I think there's a time anda place.
I think the theory definitely has legs and it's useful in a
(37:03):
lot of situations. But like most things in life,
it's not that black and white. As a couples therapist, you
know, a lot of my time is spent helping people engage in
conflict resolution. The Let them theory doesn't have
a ton of space for that. And I just encourage people
before you accept that a need won't be met and you go off and
(37:26):
you decide what to do about it yourself.
How about have a conversation with your partner to see if the
need can be met so you can say something like, you know, when
you don't text me for a couple days and I don't hear from you,
it makes me feel like I'm not a priority and I'm just a person
that I would like more contact in between our dates.
(37:46):
And then that person has the opportunity to either change
their behavior because they wantyou to feel like you are a
priority and they're glad to getthat feedback.
And it's like, oh, texting is like, so not important to me,
but now that I know that it's important to you, we like I can,
I can throw you a text because you definitely give.
Yeah, I. The cup pong on that, yeah.
(38:07):
Like you are important to me andso I want you to feel that way.
Yeah, easy, easy peasy. You don't just have to be like,
oh, he doesn't text me. Let him and edit.
You know, you can ask for your need to be met.
You want to do it in a way that is focused on yourself, not
them. So when you do this, I feel, you
know, like I'm not a priority instead of you never make me a
(38:30):
priority. You never text me, you never did
it. That's just blame and criticism,
right? That does that automatically
puts your partner in a state of defensiveness.
You're not going to get what youwant.
But if you can be vulnerable andsay, this is what I experienced,
this is what I need, and this ishow it would make me feel to get
it, I would really feel like I was important to you, you know,
(38:50):
so try to get your needs met. But then there are some
situations in life where you can't change a person.
You're not in control of a person, and they're not going to
change their behavior because ofyou.
And it's those situations that I'm like, thank you, Mel
Robbins. Let them.
Because all you can do is have control over how you respond and
(39:12):
what you're going to do, and continuing to spend your energy
trying to get someone to change who doesn't want to change and
who isn't going to change is just letting a very short life
pass you by. Yeah, love some DBT, non
attachment, certain contacts. I think you mentioned earlier
also how important choosing the person making that commitment
(39:32):
is. And I think accepting these
things where your needs aren't met and it does cause an
emotional response or you're notfeeling seen, heard, understood,
whatever it is, puts a lot of the burden of the relationship
on one person to do the work, tonot have a reaction versus like
you're saying, can I at least try and problem solve this?
(39:53):
Can we try and do this together?And if this isn't something that
can be worked through, OK, what can I do?
But if you're approaching every single thing in a relationship
is how can I change myself to make this work versus how can we
both together find a happy medium that's effective?
I think that would be so incredibly isolating and
exhausting. Interesting and miserable to
(40:14):
approach a lifelong relationshipin that way.
And unfulfilling. Satisfying.
Yeah, 100%. Another thing that I see people
talking about, especially depending on what their values
are, is like dating to date and dating to Mary.
And I'm curious what your thoughts are on that as a
concept. Do you recommend that people
(40:35):
just approach relationships withneither of those intentions and
see how it goes? Do you think that you should be
like very type A intellectualizing I'm dating to
marry. Here's my list.
Are we compatible or do we move on?
Like what are your thoughts on that concept?
And even just putting that much pressure on this aspect of your
life because we talked about like achievement and setting
(40:55):
good goals for ourselves. It'd be wild if you're like, I'm
just going to educate myself, but not be like, I'm going to be
a college graduate. Like you are aware of the
outcome, so you work towards it.So I can see them there in both.
And I'm curious as a clinician, is it just creating more issues
and putting too many expectations on something that
has to be organic? Or can it be effective for
people to have clarity on what they're looking for?
(41:18):
I think that's the big thing is know what you want, right?
There doesn't have to be some big set of rules about it, but I
think you owe it to yourself andalso the people that you're
engaging with to know what you're looking for.
Yeah. If you're looking for a good
time. Yeah.
You know, the other person deserves to know that because
what if they're not just lookingfor a good time?
(41:41):
We, we are an interconnected society, and it's not just about
what's best for us. Yeah.
Now I think it's helpful for us to know what we're looking for
because then we can have appropriate standards and, and
put them in place for what it iswe're looking for.
But don't we also owe it to the people that we're engaging with?
Like, when I was dating and wanted to get married, I didn't
(42:03):
want to date a guy that was justlooking to hook up.
Yeah. And he needed to be able to know
that and say that to me, you know?
So I think we owe it to ourselves and to others to know
what we're looking for. And it is true when you're
looking for something specific. It does change how you show up
in the experience for sure. No, it's like applying to a full
time role and being like I'm part time 2 hours a day please
(42:25):
in the absolutely not like that's not how this works.
And so I think those expectations upfront and also I
imagine if you are looking for that longer term commitment, how
the person responds to that, if you can communicate, it is very
telling and effective as just anexercise to do to practice that
dynamic. The last thing that I wanted to
ask you is about Genz not dating.
(42:47):
Genz is dating less than previous generations, both in
like younger teenage first date type of vibes, but also in
serious relationships in collegeand in their 20s.
And there are some positive outcomes, like I think teen
pregnancy rates are lower. So many people, there's a lot of
theories about why that is. Is it good or bad?
What are your thoughts as someone who's focusing on
(43:09):
relationships? Is it a negative that we're not
having this practice and being in these dynamics and not
putting ourselves out there? Like, what do you think about
that dynamic? And should Gen.
Z be doing something differently?
I think Gen. Z needs to keep doing Gen.
Z. You know, we're not going to
change a cultural phenomenon just because people who are
older think it should be different.
And I don't even think it shouldbe different.
(43:31):
I think that there, it's probably really complex how Gen.
Z has arrived at this. But like Gen.
Z, you guys literally do not know a world where people
primarily communicated face to face or on the phone, right?
And So what you have learned to need and how to function in
relationships is very, very different than, for example, me,
(43:55):
right? And you guys are dealing with an
entirely different economy structure, an entirely different
political system, and you're making choices accordingly.
I think we just need to trust young people that they're doing
what is best for them and it's all going to play out.
We don't have enough informationyet to know where this is going
(44:17):
to go. Are people just going to marry
later in life maybe, or are people going to decide being
single is really, and having that independence is what makes
me happy. Are are people going to keep
buying houses with their friends?
Because that's what's happening a lot now is like, I can't
afford to buy a house, so I'm just going to buy a house with
friends if I want to have the American dream.
The American dream looks different these days.
You know, I think the big thing is like really trusting in young
(44:41):
people that they are wise, they're making the best choices
for them. We will see how this all plays
out. And however we got here, we did
whatever we were doing to get ushere.
You know, it was it's people before you that made the
choices, that lined you up and gave you this world that's being
handed to you that honestly is very broken and damaged.
(45:03):
And you guys are in a position to be trying to make the best
out of a bad deal. That's what I really think.
And so I just trust Gen. Z and young people to do them,
and they're doing it well. If you trust the process but
also could equip Gen. Z with a piece of wisdom or
nugget or something to keep in mind as they are navigating
(45:26):
relationships would be so scary,overwhelming, and knew.
What do you wish people knew as they are navigating these
experiences? I do wish that Gen.
Z had more experience talking toeach other face to face.
Yes, you know, I know I have a niece who is 22, and whenever
she wants to talk to me about something that seems important,
you know, I'll always go to callher and she'll just text me and
(45:48):
say, can we just text? And it'll be about like
something really deep, like vulnerable and emotional.
And she just wants to text aboutit.
And I totally get it. That's the way that it's done.
But I also like really want people to learn how to talk to
each other, not through a screen, because something is
(46:08):
lost and we are losing the way that we connect with each other
when there is. Imagine if there were a screen
between the two of us. It changes the dynamic. 100%,
we'll have to do a Zoom interview for Part 2 and compare
and contrast and be like, hey guys, we did the research, let
you know if people want to continue to follow along with
your work, keep up with all the amazing things you're doing.
(46:29):
Where can they do that? I'd love for them to follow me
on Instagram. My handle is at Doctor Molly
Burritz, which is DRMOLLYBURRETS.
And if you do that, then you'll get all the information about
the launch of my podcast, which is coming out in the next couple
of months, and I'd love people to listen to that.
Amazing. I will go ahead and put a link
(46:50):
to all that in the show notes. Thank you so much for joining
me. I'm so glad we got to do this.
Thanks for having me, Sadie. I hope you guys loved that
conversation as much as I did. It made something that felt so
abstract and overwhelming feel very tangible and doable and
understand what you're bringing to the table and how to do that
in an effective way. Dating and relationships can
(47:10):
really bring up so much self doubt.
But as Doctor Burritz explained,it's not about being broken or
unlovable. It's about understanding your
patterns and learning what healthy relationships actually
look like. So if there's one thing you
remember from this episode, I hope it's that your past doesn't
have to define your future. Once you recognize those blind
spots, you can choose differently and that is where
(47:31):
the real change. Starts.
So if this episode resonates with you, it would mean the
world to me. If you leave a review on Apple
Podcast or Spotify, it helps more people find the show and
listen to these episodes, which I have so much fun creating for
you. And if you send me a screenshot
on Instagram and at She Persisted podcast, you will be
entered into this month's coffeegiveaway to win a gift card to
(47:53):
get a coffee on me. So make sure to do that.
Also answer the Q&A on Spotify below.
This episode, tell me your biggest relationship take away.
I love reading your reflections and weaving them into future
topics and things that I talked about on the podcast in the
future. All of Doctor Burrett's links
and resources are in the show notes or at She Persisted
(48:13):
podcast.com. Thank you guys so much for
listening. If you enjoyed this episode.
If she persisted, make sure to leave a review, subscribe and
share with a friend or family member.
Follow along at at She Persistedpodcast on TikTok, Instagram,
YouTube, and more for bonus content.
Thanks for listening and keep persisting.
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