November 24, 2025 • 5 mins
welcome to the mental health minis series! every other monday, we will feature a five-minute mini-episode with content from a past she persisted episode. this week’s guest is dr. angela duckworth– the rosa lee and egbert chang professor at the university of pennsylvania and faculty co-director of the penn-wharton behavior change for good initiative.
in this mini-episode, we discuss how you can reverse engineer your life to set yourself up for success!
to listen to the full episode, click HERE!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Happy Monday and welcome to yourmental Health mini.
This weeks guest is Doctor Angela Duckworth and we were
talking about how to reverse engineer your life for success
in just 5 minutes. In 2011, I go to this meeting at
Yale, and I remember it was a cold November day, and I and,
you know, passed the agenda. And at the top of it was the
(00:22):
theme of the conference. There about maybe a dozen or two
dozen scientists, and we all studied aspects of motivation or
goal pursuit. And at the top of the agenda was
the simplest question, how do wechange?
It was like in italics, like, how do we change?
And the very first talk on the agenda was a Stanford professor.
(00:44):
His name was James Gross. And he puts up this PowerPoint
slide. And he says, you know, everyone
knows that emotions are really hard to manage.
And I'm thinking to myself, like, oh, my gosh, I have such a
bad temper. Like, that is the emotion I
struggle with. And he said, you know, we all
know what it's like to try to, like, suppress an emotion.
And we all know how, you know, badly that usually turns out.
(01:06):
And I'm thinking to myself, Yep,it almost never works for me.
I like find it very hard. It's like I feel like the horses
have left the barn when I lose my temper, you know, especially
honestly with like my, my husband or, or, you know, like
my kids. So, so he says like, but you
know, if you really understand where emotions come from, then
you can be much more effective in managing them.
(01:28):
And he puts up this boxes and arrow diagram.
And I'll simplify, but let's just say that there are three
boxes. And the last box is how you
respond to your situation, like with anger, with fear, with
anxiety, with sadness, but also includes like actions like I
pick up the cup, I put down the cup, I eat the ice cream.
I I go for the run. So the box 3 in these three
(01:51):
boxes is your response to your situation, right.
And he was like, you know, most people when they, you know, feel
like they're getting really mad,just try to like not be mad when
they feel like they're lazy. They just try not to be lazy
when they feel like they want toeat ice cream, they just try not
to eat the ice cream. He's like, OK, you can use
willpower. You can use brute force
willpower. But what if you understood what
happened before box 3? And then he points to the box
(02:12):
before he's like, box 2 is your thoughts.
It's like how you make meaning of your like, what's going on
here, right? And it's all in your head.
So you're like, oh, hey, cat video or like, wow, I you know,
I hate my brother-in-law. Like whatever it is that's in
your box 2 sort of sets up box 3.
So for me, I realized after manymore hours of thinking about it
(02:36):
than I had at that one conference in November 2011, is
that when I get really mad? I think that what's through Box
2 for me, my thought is that my rights are being violated, that
I that I'm not being appreciated, right.
So when I actually trace back, like when I've really lost my
temper with my kids or my husband, it's because I feel
(02:57):
like I have been like a St. and I have not been appreciated,
right? So I'm thinking to myself, wow,
this is pretty revolutionary. And by the way, Sadie, as you
well know, a lot of therapy is about changing box to thoughts,
right? It's like, wait, why are you
feeling that way? Like, why do you not want to get
out of bed or why do you lose your temper?
But James wasn't done yet because there was another box on
the screen and he said, but where do our thoughts come from,
(03:20):
right? Obviously we have schemas.
We have like habits in our mindsets.
He's like, but really what you want to think about is that
every response and every thoughtabout, you know, that leads
there's starts in a situation like where are you?
And you know, I, I looked aroundand I was like, well, I'm, I'm
in a darkened amphitheater with a lot of other professors.
That is a certain kind of situation.
(03:41):
Box 1 is your situation. So where am I?
Right before I have the thought that I'm not being appreciated.
And I remembered this one time that I really lost my temper
with my husband, Jason. So Box 3 was losing my temper,
like, really losing my. I won't describe it because it's
embarrassing. And then Box 2 was this thought
of some version of like, you know, hey, you don't appreciate
(04:02):
me. Like, do you see how hard I'm
trying? Like, I'm a St.
And Box 1 was he had come home late and I had made dinner and
it had gone cold and he hadn't called.
And I thought to myself, like, well, yeah, but I can't change
that situation, right? Like, that happened.
So. So why are you emphasizing in
this talk that if you want to control your emotions and
(04:24):
control your behavior, you should go all the way to Box 1?
Like, I was like, I can't changethat.
But as James continued speaking,it became clear to me that,
like, maybe that night, I couldn't change that situation,
but I could change it in the future.
I could actually, for example, you know, at that time, Jason
and I were both working very hard.
I could, for example, at the endof my day, like, literally pick
(04:45):
him up to go home for dinner, right?
So now we're in a situation where we're like, just together.
I could actually change box 1 bylike making dinner together,
right? So I guess I'll say this, Sadie,
I think the three boxes model situation is box one.
Thoughts are box 2. Your response is box 3.
I have come to believe that thisis a blueprint for all human
(05:06):
behavior. Everything we do, everything we
say, and every feeling we have can be traced back to this kind
of situation that leads to the thought that leads to response.
And when I teach my classes now,I say like, we should try to
reverse engineer the life we want.
And instead of using willpower or even just like change your
(05:27):
mindset and your attitude, whichof course we should try to do.
We should set ourselves up for success.
We should set ourselves up to beour best selves by putting
ourselves in situations and creating situations that
naturally, in a way, bring out our best.
If you enjoyed this mental health mini, you can listen to
the full episode. It is #228 featuring Doctor
Angela Duckworth. A link to the full episode is in
(05:49):
the show notes. As always, make sure leave a
review, subscribe, share with a friend or family member, and
follow at at Sheepersisted podcast.
Thanks for listening.
Happy Monday and welcome to yourmental Health mini.
This weeks guest is Doctor Angela Duckworth and we were
talking about how to reverse engineer your life for success
in just 5 minutes. In 2011, I go to this meeting at
Yale, and I remember it was a cold November day, and I and,
you know, passed the agenda. And at the top of it was the
(00:22):
theme of the conference. There about maybe a dozen or two
dozen scientists, and we all studied aspects of motivation or
goal pursuit. And at the top of the agenda was
the simplest question, how do wechange?
It was like in italics, like, how do we change?
And the very first talk on the agenda was a Stanford professor.
(00:44):
His name was James Gross. And he puts up this PowerPoint
slide. And he says, you know, everyone
knows that emotions are really hard to manage.
And I'm thinking to myself, like, oh, my gosh, I have such a
bad temper. Like, that is the emotion I
struggle with. And he said, you know, we all
know what it's like to try to, like, suppress an emotion.
And we all know how, you know, badly that usually turns out.
(01:06):
And I'm thinking to myself, Yep,it almost never works for me.
I like find it very hard. It's like I feel like the horses
have left the barn when I lose my temper, you know, especially
honestly with like my, my husband or, or, you know, like
my kids. So, so he says like, but you
know, if you really understand where emotions come from, then
you can be much more effective in managing them.
(01:28):
And he puts up this boxes and arrow diagram.
And I'll simplify, but let's just say that there are three
boxes. And the last box is how you
respond to your situation, like with anger, with fear, with
anxiety, with sadness, but also includes like actions like I
pick up the cup, I put down the cup, I eat the ice cream.
I I go for the run. So the box 3 in these three
(01:51):
boxes is your response to your situation, right.
And he was like, you know, most people when they, you know, feel
like they're getting really mad,just try to like not be mad when
they feel like they're lazy. They just try not to be lazy
when they feel like they want toeat ice cream, they just try not
to eat the ice cream. He's like, OK, you can use
willpower. You can use brute force
willpower. But what if you understood what
happened before box 3? And then he points to the box
(02:12):
before he's like, box 2 is your thoughts.
It's like how you make meaning of your like, what's going on
here, right? And it's all in your head.
So you're like, oh, hey, cat video or like, wow, I you know,
I hate my brother-in-law. Like whatever it is that's in
your box 2 sort of sets up box 3.
So for me, I realized after manymore hours of thinking about it
(02:36):
than I had at that one conference in November 2011, is
that when I get really mad? I think that what's through Box
2 for me, my thought is that my rights are being violated, that
I that I'm not being appreciated, right.
So when I actually trace back, like when I've really lost my
temper with my kids or my husband, it's because I feel
(02:57):
like I have been like a St. and I have not been appreciated,
right? So I'm thinking to myself, wow,
this is pretty revolutionary. And by the way, Sadie, as you
well know, a lot of therapy is about changing box to thoughts,
right? It's like, wait, why are you
feeling that way? Like, why do you not want to get
out of bed or why do you lose your temper?
But James wasn't done yet because there was another box on
the screen and he said, but where do our thoughts come from,
(03:20):
right? Obviously we have schemas.
We have like habits in our mindsets.
He's like, but really what you want to think about is that
every response and every thoughtabout, you know, that leads
there's starts in a situation like where are you?
And you know, I, I looked aroundand I was like, well, I'm, I'm
in a darkened amphitheater with a lot of other professors.
That is a certain kind of situation.
(03:41):
Box 1 is your situation. So where am I?
Right before I have the thought that I'm not being appreciated.
And I remembered this one time that I really lost my temper
with my husband, Jason. So Box 3 was losing my temper,
like, really losing my. I won't describe it because it's
embarrassing. And then Box 2 was this thought
of some version of like, you know, hey, you don't appreciate
(04:02):
me. Like, do you see how hard I'm
trying? Like, I'm a St.
And Box 1 was he had come home late and I had made dinner and
it had gone cold and he hadn't called.
And I thought to myself, like, well, yeah, but I can't change
that situation, right? Like, that happened.
So. So why are you emphasizing in
this talk that if you want to control your emotions and
(04:24):
control your behavior, you should go all the way to Box 1?
Like, I was like, I can't changethat.
But as James continued speaking,it became clear to me that,
like, maybe that night, I couldn't change that situation,
but I could change it in the future.
I could actually, for example, you know, at that time, Jason
and I were both working very hard.
I could, for example, at the endof my day, like, literally pick
(04:45):
him up to go home for dinner, right?
So now we're in a situation where we're like, just together.
I could actually change box 1 bylike making dinner together,
right? So I guess I'll say this, Sadie,
I think the three boxes model situation is box one.
Thoughts are box 2. Your response is box 3.
I have come to believe that thisis a blueprint for all human
(05:06):
behavior. Everything we do, everything we
say, and every feeling we have can be traced back to this kind
of situation that leads to the thought that leads to response.
And when I teach my classes now,I say like, we should try to
reverse engineer the life we want.
And instead of using willpower or even just like change your
(05:27):
mindset and your attitude, whichof course we should try to do.
We should set ourselves up for success.
We should set ourselves up to beour best selves by putting
ourselves in situations and creating situations that
naturally, in a way, bring out our best.
If you enjoyed this mental health mini, you can listen to
the full episode. It is #228 featuring Doctor
Angela Duckworth. A link to the full episode is in
(05:49):
the show notes. As always, make sure leave a
review, subscribe, share with a friend or family member, and
follow at at Sheepersisted podcast.
Thanks for listening.
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