May 15, 2024 • 43 mins
Kelly and Norah were on very different life paths. Kelly was a model, who spent her free time volunteering with Head Start - an experience that opened her eyes to how many children lacked basic necessities, like properly fitting shoes. Norah was a lawyer at a high-powered New York City firm, who enjoyed engaging in pro bono work, especially in helping low-income women secure housing and other resources. But a dinner between the two - arranged by Kelly’s father-in-law - revealed their shared passions for nonprofit work, their new status as mothers, and their interest in pivoting in their careers, eventually leading to the two women becoming the CEOs of Baby2Baby. Now, Baby2Baby provides millions of diapers and other essentials to those in need and garners support from an impressive list of celebrities, including Jessica Alba, Kim Kardashian, Ayesha Curry, and Drew Barrymore. In this episode of She Pivots, Kelly and Norah talk about the role of celebrity engagement in Baby2Baby, the logistics of their first 100,000 diaper donation, and overcoming sexism they have faced as CEOs of a female-led non-profit.
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She Pivots was created by host Emily Tisch Sussman to highlight women, their stories, and how their pivot became their success. To learn more about Kelly and Norah, follow us on Instagram @ShePivotsThePodcast or visit shepivotsthepodcast.com.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to She Pivots. I'm Nora Weinstein, I'm Kelly Sawyer,
Patrick Off co cobby.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Welcome to she Pivots, the podcast where we talk with
women who dared to pivot out of one career and
into something new and explore how their personal lives impacted
these decisions. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. Mother's Day
may be over, but I can't resist highlighting more amazing
(00:39):
women who are making a difference in the lives of
millions of moms. This week, I'm thrilled to have the
co CEOs of Baby to Baby, Kelly Sawyer, Patrick Off
and Norah Weinstein, just recently named one of Time's one
hundred most Influential companies. Baby to Baby has distributed over
four undred and fifty million items to children in homeless shelters,
(01:03):
domestic violence programs, foster care, hospitals, and underserved schools. But
Kelly and Nora found their way to Baby to Baby
after they both started in completely different careers. Nora was
like me, a politics girly and got her start in
the Clinton administration, ready to make her mark on the
world on behalf of all feminists.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
After attending law school.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
She fell begrudgingly into corporate law, but always knew she
wanted to do something more impactful.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Kelly, however, took a more creative path.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
She was a model who filled her free time by
volunteering in classrooms as a way to fulfill her lifelong
dream of being a teacher. It only makes sense that
these two women from two completely different worlds found commonality.
Their unique backgrounds together create a powerhouse duo, and together
they have built one of the largest nonprofits providing supplies
(01:55):
to millions of mothers and babies. Their story is truly
one of the right time write people enjoy.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
My name is Nora Weinstein and I am the co
CEO of Baby to Baby.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Hi, I'm Kelly Sawyer patrick Off and I'm the co
CEO of Baby to Baby. I was born in England
and I grew up in Vancouver, Canada, and I always
wanted to be a teacher. That was my goal from
when I was very little, and somehow that didn't quite happen,
but I did come back around to working with children
(02:31):
through Baby to Baby. But I was discovered at a
mall a very classic model scouting story. I was at
a mall in Seattle and an agent came up to
me and asked if I wanted to move to New
York and be a model, And that sounded good at
the time and like a fun way to travel and
see the world. So that's what I did, and I
(02:52):
moved to New York, then to Milan, then to Paris.
I lived in a model apartment in New York with
not as glamorous as it might it had eight bunk
beds and two bedrooms and a chaperone. But no I
was able to travel around the world, see so many things,
learn so much. I started working, obviously at a really
young age, and that was sort of how my life
(03:15):
got started. And that was my first career.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Did you think that you were going to end up
going back to teaching or by that point you'd totally
abandoned teaching and you said, my future is in modeling.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
You know, modeling got turned into a real career and
a real job. I always thought about coming back to college.
I in fact did go back to college and did
take teaching classes pre baby to baby, so it was
always something in the back of my mind. When I
was living in New York as a model, I volunteered
at a head Start in Harlem, and that's where I
(03:47):
really saw that children who didn't have basic things couldn't
really get an education. So I remember being in a
classroom and there was this little boy named Brandon, and
we were working on his worksheet together and he was
crying and he wasn't able to do his school work.
So I was trying to figure out what exactly was wrong,
(04:07):
and I discovered that he had shoes that were three
sizes too small, and his feet were in such pain
and bleeding, and he couldn't focus on his schoolwork because
he just didn't have shoes that fit. And so that
was sort of the first light bulb of you know,
not that I knew that baby to baby was coming,
but when I look back, it was really something that
(04:28):
was about children needing basic essentials to be able to
get an education. So from the spot where I'm sitting now,
it was a light bulb. At the moment, I didn't
really know that, but yeah, it was all. It was
all kind of coming back to this place.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
And that's not the most common affiliation that I would have,
to be honest, like a model would go out and
find the volunteer position and position with children like Was
it within your network that a lot of bottles were
doing it? Did you go out and seek it on
your own?
Speaker 1 (04:55):
No, it wasn't something that I had ever heard anyone
else doing. It was just something that I I always
was interested in. I loved kids. I loved working with kids.
I just like that was just my nature. People always
used to tell me I should be a kindergarten teacher.
Whenever I went to like a family function, I'd be
at the kids table in the corner. I'd rather be
with the kids than with the adults. So that was
(05:16):
sort of always something I left.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
And how about you, Nora.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
I was also from.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
New York, and I wanted to be president.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
When I was little.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
I wanted to be the first female president, which I'm
sure many little girls did. And I'm not so dissimilar
to the person I think I am today.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
I was.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
I loved school, I loved writing. I was very political.
I was president of the pro Choice club when I
was in seventh grade. But I also won the funniest
Girl in eighth grade, so I was very proud of that.
I ultimately went to Berkeley and studied political science, and
then I took a year off to decide what I
was going to do next, and I was pretty obsessed
with that issue and wanted to find the right career.
(05:59):
I got an internship up at the White House and
I was an Oval office intern for Clinton, which was
pretty extraordinary walking into the White House every day for work.
But I took the year to decide am I going
to go into law or journalism or politics? And I
guess it doesn't sound so stressful, but I was stressed
about it and really wanted to make the right move again.
(06:19):
I was very much a feminist and wanted to do
right by that, and I would ask anyone I could
for advice about it. I actually went up to Wolf
Splitzer and at the Press Corps when I was at
the White House and asked if he would have coffee
with me, which he did, which was so nice of him,
and I asked him his advice about law and journalism.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Hey what did he say? He said, journalism?
Speaker 3 (06:43):
What a surprise.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
Yeah. And I'd written for the School of Paper and
at my high school and at Berkeley, and I ended
up doing some more work in journalism, but my parents
ultimately gave me what I think was the best advice,
which was to start with law school, and that that
foundation would give me a degree as a woman that
couldn't be taken away from me, and that could serve
me whether I went into law or journalism, or politics
(07:07):
or anything else. My dad had been a movie producer.
He also had gone to law school, and so I
didn't look at it as I didn't look at school
as a place to become a lawyer or to have
a fifty year career in the law. I looked at
it as an education and a great place to learn
to think and negotiate and write and then do whatever
(07:27):
I pleased with. I loved law school so much. I
loved the professors. I was excited by the Socratic method.
It made me so nervous, but I set off of it.
I just thought it was so exciting. And I didn't
mind the competitiveness and the grade curve and the I mean,
the tests were the elsat and the bar, and I
(07:48):
took two bars. I took the New York bar, and
then I moved to California and there was no reciprocity,
and I had to take two bars, and that was
those are the two hardest bar horrific. Yes, And then
now I you know, right, so that was not fun.
But I felt like all of those things were kind
of under my belt as achievements and things that kept
telling me I could accomplish things, but they were not fun.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
That part was not fun.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
I loved school, and I loved school more than I
loved law firm life.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
And as Nora said, she never wanted to go into
law firm life, but she excelled at law and caught
the big law bug like so many other young hopeful
law students.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
I definitely think that the big firms draw you in
in that way. Again, I was someone who was not
going with the plan to be a big corporate lawyer,
and yet I still fell in line, because again, if
you're getting good grades and doing well, that's where the
you know, that's where the prestige is and the money is,
and it's exciting and it feels like an accomplishment. So
(08:46):
and all the firms are knocking at your door. And
the year I was doing it, it was very fancy.
The recruiting and even when I got to the firm
were if you stayed till nine pm, you were taking
a town car home and you got a sixty five
dollars budget for dinner. Which was very exciting to eat
sushi in New York every night after graduation. So it
draws you in, and I made sense to me, even
(09:07):
though I was glad that I found a way out
of it, because I think you can be sucked in,
and it is important. I think a lot of people
got sucked in. There were one hundred and thirty six
of us at my first year class at Scott and
Arps in New York, and it was probably the biggest
firm in the world at the time. And again that
was exciting, so the camaraderie and the people we met,
and living in New York as a young person, it
was all so exciting, and sleeping in the office and
(09:29):
napping under our desks and just everything that hardcore law
firm life is.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
It certainly draws you in.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
And so I think you have to really make a
concerted effort if you want to get out to know
yourself and know what the next step can be, because
you're generally going to you're going to go to something
a little bit less fancy.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Still, despite joining big law, Nora made it a priority
to focus on the issues and work she grew up
so passionate about.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
I loved pro bono work because as a young associate,
again you're working as we one of thirty lawyers on
a case. You're the most junior person on the totem
pole are you know, you're doing the groundwork, which is
fine and exciting and you learn so much, but you're
still at the bottom. And with pro bono work, you're
in front of a judge in your first year. And
what was most exciting to me was that the clients
(10:17):
were women, because again I was a lifelong feminist and
cared about women and cared about low income women. Many
of them had children, and we got to do things
that were so impactful. And again, as a first year
law associate, I was going in front of a judge
with a low income woman who needed affordable housing and
I could make a media difference in her life.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
And I found it so rewarding.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
And I found it more rewarding than general corporate law
or securities litigation.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
That's just who I was.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
That was very exciting to some people, but I wanted
to be with more women and children and helping them
with my law degree SOD. I gravitated it so much.
Then I knew that that was really more my calling
than the other.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
So how did the two of you meet? Do you
guys have like a meet cute?
Speaker 1 (11:03):
We do. My father in law actually introduced us. My
father in law is quite a force, and when he
calls you and tells you that you are going to
have dinner with someone, you do it. So my husband
and I had just moved from New York to LA
and we'd been living in LA probably for about four months,
(11:23):
and he called and he said, Oh, I have this
great couple. You have to meet them. And she's great,
he's great, You're gonna love them. And we were like, okay, sure,
and so, you know, an awkward stranger double date. But
obviously they were lovely and we had a nice dinner.
And then Nora and I started talking about, you know,
I was a model, she was a lawyer, What were
we doing next, what were our next career paths, what
(11:44):
was what was our pivot? And so we were both
talking about our love for nonprofit and we talked about,
you know, our interest in helping children in need, families
in need, and it was something like that we both
had an interest in. So sort of that sparked something
that night.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
And at that point, were you both in kind of
a career pause, or you were working on something that
you then had to wind down to be able to
work together.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
I had moved to LA and there's not much modeling
in LA unless you're traveling back and forth to New
York or flying to Europe, and so I was looking
for something, looking for my next thing to do. I
was going back to school at the time and trying
to figure out what I wanted to do next, and
I was still working.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
I had transferred to the Los Angeles office of Scatt,
and I also was dipping back into some journalism, which
was kind of another story. But the scariest part was
probably leaving the law firm, because I think the path
of school and law school and I think continuing on
a lane like that is very comforting to someone who
(12:52):
cares about their resume and making the right choice and
then doing anything entrepreneurial or different is scary.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
I want to get into your headspace. Sometimes people are
pivoting towards something or towards something, and sometimes they're pivoting
away from what they're currently in. Where do you think
you fell in there?
Speaker 4 (13:12):
I knew I was pivoting, but I think it was
the one time where my pivot was undefined. I didn't
know where it was going, and I really was trying
to just at that point follow you know again, I
had been so stuck in like this has to be
this for the resume, and this has to be the
next brand, and this has to be this that at
this point, there's been something about baby to baby forever
(13:35):
that has just kind of taken on its own life,
and so so many exciting things have happened and fallen
into our laps and things that we've created, and so
I think at that moment, yes, I was trying to
pivot in in terms of an expansion of something I
cared about, but I really didn't know where it was
going to go.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Well, being pregnant and being a model, I was definitely
pivoting away from being a model because you can't really
much modeling when you're pregnant. So for me, it was
definitely what's my next step here. I'm now living in
LA I don't want to live out of a suitcase anymore.
I don't want to have to hop on a plane
with twenty four hours notice and fly to Europe when
I have a child. All of those things were sort
(14:16):
of happening to me, and I was looking for something
that I wanted to do next, and I knew it
was with children.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
I also think we both had our first child as well,
which inspired us even more to be thinking in the
children's space. And it was how we knew a lot
of the nonprofits that we started visiting, which was kind
of our next step. So again we didn't immediately go
to baby to baby. We instead kind of casually said
let's take some next steps and we started visiting other nonprofits.
(14:48):
So we visited homeless shelters, we visited a refugee center
with Kelly's mother in law. We went to foster care agencies.
We would just take meetings with people and just kind
of ask what was happening, being, what their needs were,
what hole there was that potentially we could help with.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
And we were surprised.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
With the answers we got because I think we assumed
they were going to talk about low funding or personnel
or something in that area, and across the board, they
all told us they needed diapers, They needed diapers and
other basic essentials. So the point that we kept getting
was these programs couldn't do the work they were intended
(15:28):
to do. If a mother had a child in a
dirty diaper or without it, or without food, or without
any of their basic essentials. So, whether it was a
teacher talking about getting kids to school, a parenting program,
a social services program trying to get parents to parenting courses,
(15:49):
someone trying to get moms to fill out insurance claims
or employment forms, they couldn't do any of their work
without these basic essentials. It was a very simple problem
they were telling us, and we heard it loud and clear,
and it's been probably our biggest learning a Baby to
Baby since that point is to listen and to never
assume that we know what someone else needs, especially someone
(16:12):
living in a different situation, and to always be listening,
listening to the community, listening to the children, listening to
the moms, and really understanding what they needed. In that day,
those that period of time where we were out there
taking coffees, taking meetings, it was a very clear message
these programs needed basic essentials in order to do their jobs.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
When we come back, Kelly and Nora talk about meeting
the founders of Baby to Baby and feeling like it
finally filled the exact need they kept hearing about after
dozens of meetings, Kelly and Nora finally came across Baby
to Baby and immediately knew it was the right fit.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
We met them and they were very open to us
coming in and takeing over. And we looked at it
and we were like, this is something that's going to
be big. This is a huge need. We see this need.
We've gone on these meetings, we've met all these nonprofits.
We see the huge need here. We see the potential
(17:14):
for this to be huge. And we knew from day one.
People ask us all the time, did you know Baby
to Bay was going to be so big? And we say, yeah,
we did. We knew we saw the need. We saw that,
you know, this was a gap that needed to be filled.
And from the day that we announced ourselves as the
co CEOs, we had a small cocktail party and Jessica Alba,
(17:36):
Nicole Richie came and a photo of them ran in
US magazine and it said the Baby to Baby event
underneath it. And from that day we were sitting in
our tiny six hundred square foot storefront hearing the phone
ring and Edelman pr was on the phone and they said, oh,
we'd love to give you, you know, one hundred thousand diapers
(17:59):
and one hundred thousand dollars to have an event with Huggies,
And at that moment, they were like, but do you
accept pallettes and we were like, of course, we accept pallettes,
and we're googling what is a palette? And then they're like,
and do you have forklifts? And we're like, yes, we
have forklifts, and we're like, how do you run a forklift?
But that truck came and we unloaded that truck and
(18:20):
those one hundred thousand diapers ourselves with a really nice
truck driver and one intern because it was just the
two of us and one intern at the time, and
they flew out the door within twenty four hours. So
not only had we seen the need from meeting with
all these different nonprofits and talking to them about what
the needs were of families, but seeing the social workers
(18:42):
come in and take them that very same day really
was a huge light bulb and showed us, what, you know,
how much need there was and how this could just
be had so much potential to be enormous.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
They were doing something different in that they were collecting
gently used items and clothing from moms, very local and
Los Angeles. I think a lot of whom they went
to preschool with as a start, and they would drop
off their gently used stuff and then they would in
turn find a shelter or a home for it. So ironically,
what we do is has become very different in that
(19:17):
we do not collect gently use items at all, because
that ended up being not scalable for us. We've now
given out three hundred and seventy five million items in
the last twelve years, which are all new, and that
was just the model that we found. We also continue
not to We don't give two moms directly unless we're
(19:37):
at some specialized events. Instead, we have a network of
one thousand partners across the country. We're serving all fifty states,
two hundred and seventy seven cities, and so we are
serving both enormous organizations like the major school districts in
Los Angeles and New York and Chicago, and hospitals, and
then also homeless shelter is, domestic violance shelters, foster care
(19:58):
agencies and now it's what we've built has really been
also a logistics effort where we're getting millions of items
out the door every day on trucks and planes to
other organizations across the country, who in turn give them
(20:18):
to low income children in their program.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Perhaps what Baby to Baby is best known for. Their
secret weapon to help me as many moms and babies
as possible is celebrity engagement. Their gala consistently includes stars
like Kim Kardashian, Gwyneth Paltrow, Ayisha Curry, and so many more.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
We are back, so listen.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
The Baby to Baby Gala event happened this weekend in
Los Angeles.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
We're going to have some fun because it was so
much fashion on the red carpet.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
The twenty twenty three Baby Too Baby Gala turns a
night of star studded fashion into a mission to help children.
Kim Kardashian and a black floral lace gown, Hailey Bieber
in a sleek dress, and Salma Hayek Pinot in a
green dress all shine for a cause they're not.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
But I think that celebrity moment really taught us something
from day one, and it was to build a community
of women, and not just celebrities, but CEOs and lawyers
and venture capitalists and just impressive strong women in their
own fields who could help us. And you know, our
(21:22):
whole goal is to support mothers so it's a lot
of women supporting women, and that term gets tossed around
a lot. But when we can use these celebrities for good,
and we like to say we've flipped like sponsorships on
their head, although agents and managers probably don't love us
for that. But when we can have a celebrity come
(21:42):
to a baby to baby event. You know, obviously most
people know about our yearly ganual Gala, which obviously gets
a lot of press, but we do have these monthly
events for children in our program, and a lot of
times will have celebrity ambassadors come and stand in front
of a step and repeat for a company, and they'll
(22:03):
do an Instagram post for the company thanking them for
hosting the baby to Baby event. And that's how we
make money. You know, those corporate partnerships not only give
us financial donations, but they also give us product. So
if we have an event with Jen Garner and she's
in front of a Huggy stepper repeat and we get
(22:24):
three million diapers and three million wipes and also a
financial donation for her attending and being a host, that
really moves the needle in such a way. And that
was sort of a light bulb that went off very
early on. Okay, we can use these celebrity moms. They
feel good, they're coming, they're supporting Baby to Baby and
(22:44):
us and the families in our program. But also we
can use them to raise money. We can use them
to raise awareness, we can use them to give these
product donations. I mean in kind donations are a huge
part of how we've been able to distribute three hundred
and seventy five million eaes. When corporations are giving us
a million diapers a year or you know, a million toothbrushes,
(23:05):
and these are things that we really need for the families.
That is something that we learned early on was something
we could really use. And obviously we're lucky to be
living in Los Angeles surrounded by a lot of celebrity moms,
but I think it can go back to any community.
You know, strong women in your community who want to
support you, support the work you're doing, support families in need.
(23:26):
That was really something that we learned very early on
and went with full force. The celebrities who are a
part of Baby are really phenomenal, and we always say
they're absolutely never names on a piece of paper. So
if we have someone on our board or our extended board,
which is called our Angels. They are women who are
(23:47):
showing up. They are showing up with their children to volunteer.
They are showing up at events to help us get
sponsorship dollars. They are giving us millions of dollars. They
are giving us hundreds of millions of donations.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
They are getting on planes with us to advocate for
the removal of sales tax.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
They are performing in our gala.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
They are really deeply involved, and so I think many
people are probably looking for someone just to attend something
or write their name on something. But we're really luckier
than that in that we have these deeply involved women.
I think it starts with they're all moms and they
believe in our mission. Our mission is also very simple.
So our mission is to get basic essentials to children
(24:29):
in poverty. It's really bipartisan. It is something that I
think most people can agree on, and especially parents. Immediately
when people become parents, I think you don't have to
give them any talking points about our diaper program. The
fact that one in two families in this country cannot
afford diapers for their children is startling to anyone who's
(24:51):
ever put on a diaper, and they understand it. They
know how expensive they are, even if they're not struggling,
and they know how expensive items are for children. And
so the women have been so invested in us continuing
to get the price down and starting manufacturing diapers ourselves,
and watching the arc of our decade where we started
with getting small donations and then we moved to buying
(25:14):
them at wholesale, and then we started manufacturing them so
that we're making them for eighty percent less and distributing
five times more. I think they feel a real ownership
in that, and I think we really bring them in
and have them be They're a real part of Baby
to Baby, and I think they're celebrated in that way.
We also explain to them their impact, so they understand
what they're doing, how they're helping, how much money they're raising,
(25:37):
what a social post will mean for a sponsor, what
that will mean for Baby to Baby, what we will
do with a five hundred thousand dollars donation, how many
more diapers we can distribute, And so I think we
educate them so that they understand what an impact they're making.
They're obviously extremely busy women, so we try not to
make our asks long or complicated, and also so lucky
(26:01):
to have so many of these women, So we're not
counting on one ambassador to do everything because that would
be time consuming. Instead, we have probably over one hundred
women and men who show up at our events, who
come to our gala, who stand with diapers in their hands,
who again fly on planes to advocate, who named names.
(26:25):
You know, Justin Bieber came and sang for children during COVID,
and Jen Garner and Gwyneth Paltrow and Jessica Albo and
Megan Markle and Prince Harry and Ellen Pompeo all wore
masks during COVID and during the height of COVID in
that danger stood side by side with us, putting diapers
and basic essentials in our family's cars so that they
(26:46):
could have the basic essentials they needed. Kim Kardashian over
the years has given us millions of dollars. You know,
Sierra was on stage probably months after having a baby,
performing for our audio.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
They just really there's so.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Many of them, and they participate in so many ways,
and I feel like we are certainly lucky to have them,
and I think they appreciate and care deeply about Baby
to Baby.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Above all, Nora and Kelly want the world to see
Baby to Baby for what it is, a fully thriving
and successful business, one that they've worked hard to build.
When we come back, they talk about the sexism they've
faced as CEOs of a female centered nonprofit and more.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Now back to the show.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
We talk about Baby to Baby as a business. We
talk about it as CEOs who run a business. You know,
we're in a different tax bracket, but we have all
the same problems that any business has. And so you know,
we have an eighty million dollar budget and not as
in kind and financial, but still it's you know, we
have hr issues, we have reviews. We're doing the same
(27:54):
thing that every other business is doing. So when people
you know, sometimes flued nonprofits from things, you know, there
are these lists, and we've been very lucky to be
on you know, the Times Most Influential Companies list in
twenty twenty three. That was a big moment for us
because it was breaking down the barrier that a nonprofit
couldn't be seen as a business and seen on these lists,
(28:16):
because a lot of times we do see that, oh well,
you're a nonprofit, Oh well, you know, this is just businesses,
and we're like, but we are a business and we
have all the same issues. So I think, you know,
nonprofit comes with a lot of I think there's things
that are set in people's minds that maybe are a
little archaic. So when we're trying to talk to people
(28:39):
about you know that there's a little sexism around being
in nonprofit. There's people will ask Nora and I questions like, oh,
how many hours a week do you spend on baby
to baby? And we are stunned. How do you think
you distribute three hundred and seventy five million items to
a million children across the country on a few hours
(29:01):
a week. This is our job, this is our career.
We've dedicated our lives and careers to this, So there
is some sort of I don't think anyone's asking a
male CEO that question if there's a male CEO of
a nonprofit. So we do deal with a lot of that,
and we're trying to break down those barriers on making
sure that nonprofits are considered to be just like businesses.
(29:22):
We have all the same problems and issues that a
business has.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
In case you can't tell, we find this notion very
offensive when people ask us about something the two of
us and our amazing team talk about frequently because it
is a business in every way. Again, we have an
eighty million dollar budget, which is twenty million in cash
and it's over sixty million dollars in kind goods. We
are building, we have real estate, we have finance, we
(29:49):
have hr we have a growing staff, we have you know,
we were ranked by Fast Company as the most innovative
nonprofit in the world a few years ago, and again
Time magazine a is one of the one hundred most
influential companies. And our proudest part about that award was
that they called us a company, which we are, which
hopefully to remind people that nonprofits our businesses and our companies.
(30:13):
And again, the fact that donors to nonprofit have the
tax status is different. Other than that, there truly is
no difference except for people are doing something wonderful. And
I think one of the reasons we find it so
offensive is that it's so important that young people choose
a career a nonprofit. We want men and women to
(30:33):
be called to nonprofit because we think we need some
of the best minds in this country to go into
nonprofit and solve problems that are helping to solve poverty.
So anything that diminishes the value of a nonprofit, therefore,
we think is truly has such a negative effect on women,
on young people entering the field, and on the notion
(30:57):
of people wanting to spend their lives solving major issues
like hunger and poverty in this country.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
So talk to me about that, because this could be
so broad, the mission could be everything right, like you know,
serving underserved communities could could never end. I mean there's
endless amounts of work to do. How do you think
about it? Maybe I'll come back to Kelly. How do
you think about how narrowly you stick to your mission
or where you Expand yeah, I think it's hard.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
I think there are so many things you could do,
and there are so many stories you hear and so
many people to help. But I think we've seen our
efficiency comes with sticking to our mission, staying in our lane,
making sure that you know, our whole goal is this
goal getting you know, families in need the basic essentials
(31:48):
that they are so desperately needing. So that's what we
look at every time. You know, we were launching a
pilot program with the White House in HHS, and we
did that in twenty twenty three, and I think when
we were looking at it, it was like a little
bit out of our lane. It was like, hold on,
this is maternal health, but it's still newborn supplies. So
(32:10):
when we looked at making these kids, we made these,
you know, maternal and newborn supply kits, and it was
items for moms, which we already distribute, plus items for babies,
which we already distribute. So as much as it felt
like it was a little out of our wheelhouse, it
still stayed in line with making sure we were distributing
the basic essentials that families need. So that was something
(32:32):
that we kind of pivoted towards that was a little
bit out of just like, oh, zero to twelve children
need these backpacks and school supplies and diapers for babies.
So I think there's certain times where we'll eke out
a little bit of our lane, but most of the
time we're just making sure that we are diaper need
is our number one focus. We know one and two
(32:53):
families are struggling to afford them. We know fourteen percent
of a low income famili's after tax income goes to diapers,
and it's such an expense for family, so we want
to make sure that we're meeting that expense. We know,
when we can provide diapers to families that they can
keep their lights on, put food on the table, pay
their rent. So that is something that's really important to us,
(33:14):
and we've always tried to stick to that and make
sure that everything that we're doing is focused on that.
You know, even when we're doing fun things like a
Goop campaign for diaper need where Gwyneth Paltrow is launching
a fake diape hair and it's got rhyinestones and fake fur,
it's all coming back to the fact that, you know,
(33:34):
we want to take the tax off of diapers. We
talk about every day. There are twenty six states left
that still tax diapers like a luxury item. We were
able to remove that sales tax in California, but there's
still such a long way to go. And diaper need
is always our number one focus because it is really
what families struggle with every day. So I think the
(33:56):
more we stay in that lane, the more we remember
what we're focused on, the more we can help families.
I love a narrow mission.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
I feel like it's completely guides us and reminds us
what we're doing and gives us such a roadmap.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
I think when we.
Speaker 4 (34:11):
Know that we have one point five billion requests for
diapers and there's an insatiable need and we're not meeting
it yet, we don't have to listen to the noise
of people saying to do something else, and so I
feel like it's actually a very strong guide for us.
And even with our policy and advocacy work, as Kelly
was mentioning, with the diaper tax, again, it was very
(34:32):
specific and narrow in our lanth. So does that mean
we should take on all child advocacy, all poverty advocacy, advocacy. No,
it means that if something is specific to our mission
and we really believe that we can have an impact
that was so clearly in our wheelhouse and we had
tools to help it, then of course we would take
(34:52):
it on. And so that is what led us to
advocating to Governor Newsom and to the legislature in California
to argue to have it removed. And when that worked,
we've now worked to go state by state and continue
helping to remove it. But that does not mean we're
going to join a campaign to remove tax from every
(35:14):
other item that's taxed as a luxury. We're a mission specific. Again,
that doesn't mean we don't pivot. When there was a
formula crisis a few years ago, all of a sudden,
formula got our top attention instead of diapers because at
that moment, when babies who are in low income babies
especially couldn't access the nutrition they needed to stay alive,
(35:35):
that then was able to tip the scale a little bit,
and we went into a very very deep focus on formula,
figuring out a way to get millions of bottles into formula,
into mom's hands and baby's hands at that moment when
they needed it the most. And that was a pivot,
But it wasn't day, night and day pivot. It was saying,
here's some of our top items, and right now formula
(35:58):
needs our attention, or right now it's back to school
and we're going to make sure these kids.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Have backpacks and school supplies.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
Or because of maternal mortality, we know that mothers need
to have the items they need for their babies directly
after giving birth to combat that. So it's not as
if it's not a single issue or a single item,
but it's still a narrow emission and it really serves
as a very clear guide for us. But I do
(36:25):
feel like we love the word pivot because it's also innovating.
And again we pride ourselves and our amazing organization on
its innovation. But we feel like we pivot so much
every day at Baby to Baby and during these last
twelve years, and what it started as is not what
it is twelve years later, and now the fact that
we're making our own diapers and that we have this
(36:46):
growing disaster relief program and that we're responding constantly. Everyone
had to pivot during COVID, but we feel like a
Baby to Baby it was such a gigantic pivot. We
grew five times. We started raising five times the amount
of money, Our staff grew five times, We had to
have five times the amount of warehouse space.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
We couldn't give things out.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
In person anymore, and so we had to completely redo
our system of how we were getting emergency supplies into
the hands of.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Children to need.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
And again then with disasters, that wasn't something we ever
had contemplated. Yes, we knew Baby to Baby was going
to be big, we did not know that we were
going to be a disaster relief agency. But when we
saw we went to our first disaster in Houston and
saw that families were displaced living in the astrodome with
cots that looked like army style cots that were made
for men, and they were giving out items that were
(37:34):
only for adults. A disaster relief is very adult focus,
and we said, where are the cribs, we're the diapers,
where are the toys to keep these kids busy? Where
the safety items and the hygiene items? And so again
we saw another opening to say, now we're going to
Now disaster relief is going to become one of our
principal goals. So I just think it's I think we
(37:54):
loved the idea of being on today because pivot is
such a fun word that we use a lot of
baby to baby that we want to inspire our team
also to be pivoting in our everyday work. So just
a fun note that I think we keep pivoting and
pivoting and we're all proud of that.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
That's going to be a SoundBite for sure. So I
asked this question of all of my gifts, and I'll
ask each of you guys separately, what is something that
you saw at the time as like a negative or
a low point in your life, but now in hindsight,
you really see it as a positive and potentially having
launched you to the success that you are now. So
I can start with you, Kelly.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Yeah, I think you know modeling. It sounds glamorous and fun,
and it is, and as a first career it was great.
I got to travel the world, I learned so much.
I started working at such a young age. But I
also think there is a lot of negativity that surrounds
you every single day. People are criticizing like, oh, I
(38:53):
don't know about her. Her nose is too big, her
nose is too small, she's too short, she's too tall.
It's just, you know, there's a lot of criticisms that
come along with it, and it can definitely be hard
on people. But I think it built a really tough
shell for me and I really learned resilience. And so
what I take from that every day is I'm not
(39:16):
afraid to ask anyone anything, and I'm all fine hearing
the word no. So you know, a lot of the
day can be asking people, oh, can you do us
this favor? Can you give us this amount of money.
Can you show up at this event? Can you post
on social media? I've for this million, you know item
donation and no doesn't really phase me. So I think
(39:39):
it really helped me to be where I am today.
It taught me so much about resiliency, and I think
that negativity maybe pivoted to positive because it works every day.
Speaker 4 (39:50):
Now, what about you, Nora, I would go back to
the stress that I felt in terms of choosing career.
On my first day of Women in the Law, of course,
I took at USC with Susan Estrich. She said, if
you're a woman, there are three things a career, a husband,
(40:13):
and kids you can choose to. And it really stuck
with me and bothered me, but stuck with me. And again,
I was this feminist my whole life, and that was
really upsetting to hear in the middle of my law
school from an established legal professor. And I felt it
and I wanted to I wanted to prove to myself.
(40:35):
I wanted to prove to other women. I now want
to show my daughter but also my son. That's not
the case. Everyone on your show does it all, or
tries to do all of it, not does it all,
but does those three things or not always, but sometimes
they do, and they are possible and they're hard. But
I think what's really important. The reason I think it
has turned so positive is that I feel like I
(40:57):
carry that around with me in terms of toughness and
in terms of mentoring or teaching, whether it's our phenomenal
team at Baby to Baby or my children or young
people that I get to speak to about really finding
something you love so that you can have all of
those things if you want them, because I think it
really comes from loving what you do. I think I'm
(41:18):
so lucky and we're so lucky at Baby to Baby
because it's obviously a career that has so much fulfillment
and personal fulfillment, but I think people find it in
so many different ways, and so I think it was
worth nineteen internships. I think it was worth pounding on
people's doors and trying out things and seeing what I
liked and seeing what I didn't like, and going to
school and switching jobs. I think all of that is
(41:41):
really worth it, and the stress is worth it because
I do think it can lead you to a career
that you love, and I think if you love your career,
you can find a way to balance things better.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
Well, thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
Thank you for having us, Thank you. This was so
much fun.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Kelly and nor are continuing the important work to provide
essential items to women and babies across the country. Help
Baby to Baby reach their one billion diaper goal by
visiting them at babydobaby dot org to see how you
can get involved. From volunteer opportunities to sponsorships. There's accessible
and meaningful ways at every level. You can also follow
(42:19):
Baby to Baby on Instagram at Baby to Baby.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
Thanks for listening to this episode of she Pivots.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
If you made it this far, you're a true pivoter,
so thanks for being part of this community. I hope
you enjoyed this episode, and if you did leave us
a rating, please be nice and tell your friends about us.
To learn more about our guests, follow us on Instagram
at she Pivots the Podcast, or sign up for our
newsletter where you can get exclusive behind the scenes content,
or on our website she Pivots the Podcast Talk to
(42:49):
You Next Week special thanks to the she Pivots team.
Executive producer Emily Edavelosk, Associate producer and Social me Media
connoisseur Hannah Cousins, Research director Christine Dickinson, Events and Logistics
coordinator Madeline Snovac, and audio editor and mixer Nina pollock
(43:10):
I endorse Che Pivots
Welcome back to She Pivots. I'm Nora Weinstein, I'm Kelly Sawyer,
Patrick Off co cobby.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Welcome to she Pivots, the podcast where we talk with
women who dared to pivot out of one career and
into something new and explore how their personal lives impacted
these decisions. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. Mother's Day
may be over, but I can't resist highlighting more amazing
(00:39):
women who are making a difference in the lives of
millions of moms. This week, I'm thrilled to have the
co CEOs of Baby to Baby, Kelly Sawyer, Patrick Off
and Norah Weinstein, just recently named one of Time's one
hundred most Influential companies. Baby to Baby has distributed over
four undred and fifty million items to children in homeless shelters,
(01:03):
domestic violence programs, foster care, hospitals, and underserved schools. But
Kelly and Nora found their way to Baby to Baby
after they both started in completely different careers. Nora was
like me, a politics girly and got her start in
the Clinton administration, ready to make her mark on the
world on behalf of all feminists.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
After attending law school.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
She fell begrudgingly into corporate law, but always knew she
wanted to do something more impactful.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Kelly, however, took a more creative path.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
She was a model who filled her free time by
volunteering in classrooms as a way to fulfill her lifelong
dream of being a teacher. It only makes sense that
these two women from two completely different worlds found commonality.
Their unique backgrounds together create a powerhouse duo, and together
they have built one of the largest nonprofits providing supplies
(01:55):
to millions of mothers and babies. Their story is truly
one of the right time write people enjoy.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
My name is Nora Weinstein and I am the co
CEO of Baby to Baby.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Hi, I'm Kelly Sawyer patrick Off and I'm the co
CEO of Baby to Baby. I was born in England
and I grew up in Vancouver, Canada, and I always
wanted to be a teacher. That was my goal from
when I was very little, and somehow that didn't quite happen,
but I did come back around to working with children
(02:31):
through Baby to Baby. But I was discovered at a
mall a very classic model scouting story. I was at
a mall in Seattle and an agent came up to
me and asked if I wanted to move to New
York and be a model, And that sounded good at
the time and like a fun way to travel and
see the world. So that's what I did, and I
(02:52):
moved to New York, then to Milan, then to Paris.
I lived in a model apartment in New York with
not as glamorous as it might it had eight bunk
beds and two bedrooms and a chaperone. But no I
was able to travel around the world, see so many things,
learn so much. I started working, obviously at a really
young age, and that was sort of how my life
(03:15):
got started. And that was my first career.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Did you think that you were going to end up
going back to teaching or by that point you'd totally
abandoned teaching and you said, my future is in modeling.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
You know, modeling got turned into a real career and
a real job. I always thought about coming back to college.
I in fact did go back to college and did
take teaching classes pre baby to baby, so it was
always something in the back of my mind. When I
was living in New York as a model, I volunteered
at a head Start in Harlem, and that's where I
(03:47):
really saw that children who didn't have basic things couldn't
really get an education. So I remember being in a
classroom and there was this little boy named Brandon, and
we were working on his worksheet together and he was
crying and he wasn't able to do his school work.
So I was trying to figure out what exactly was wrong,
(04:07):
and I discovered that he had shoes that were three
sizes too small, and his feet were in such pain
and bleeding, and he couldn't focus on his schoolwork because
he just didn't have shoes that fit. And so that
was sort of the first light bulb of you know,
not that I knew that baby to baby was coming,
but when I look back, it was really something that
(04:28):
was about children needing basic essentials to be able to
get an education. So from the spot where I'm sitting now,
it was a light bulb. At the moment, I didn't
really know that, but yeah, it was all. It was
all kind of coming back to this place.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
And that's not the most common affiliation that I would have,
to be honest, like a model would go out and
find the volunteer position and position with children like Was
it within your network that a lot of bottles were
doing it? Did you go out and seek it on
your own?
Speaker 1 (04:55):
No, it wasn't something that I had ever heard anyone
else doing. It was just something that I I always
was interested in. I loved kids. I loved working with kids.
I just like that was just my nature. People always
used to tell me I should be a kindergarten teacher.
Whenever I went to like a family function, I'd be
at the kids table in the corner. I'd rather be
with the kids than with the adults. So that was
(05:16):
sort of always something I left.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
And how about you, Nora.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
I was also from.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
New York, and I wanted to be president.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
When I was little.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
I wanted to be the first female president, which I'm
sure many little girls did. And I'm not so dissimilar
to the person I think I am today.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
I was.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
I loved school, I loved writing. I was very political.
I was president of the pro Choice club when I
was in seventh grade. But I also won the funniest
Girl in eighth grade, so I was very proud of that.
I ultimately went to Berkeley and studied political science, and
then I took a year off to decide what I
was going to do next, and I was pretty obsessed
with that issue and wanted to find the right career.
(05:59):
I got an internship up at the White House and
I was an Oval office intern for Clinton, which was
pretty extraordinary walking into the White House every day for work.
But I took the year to decide am I going
to go into law or journalism or politics? And I
guess it doesn't sound so stressful, but I was stressed
about it and really wanted to make the right move again.
(06:19):
I was very much a feminist and wanted to do
right by that, and I would ask anyone I could
for advice about it. I actually went up to Wolf
Splitzer and at the Press Corps when I was at
the White House and asked if he would have coffee
with me, which he did, which was so nice of him,
and I asked him his advice about law and journalism.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Hey what did he say? He said, journalism?
Speaker 3 (06:43):
What a surprise.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
Yeah. And I'd written for the School of Paper and
at my high school and at Berkeley, and I ended
up doing some more work in journalism, but my parents
ultimately gave me what I think was the best advice,
which was to start with law school, and that that
foundation would give me a degree as a woman that
couldn't be taken away from me, and that could serve
me whether I went into law or journalism, or politics
(07:07):
or anything else. My dad had been a movie producer.
He also had gone to law school, and so I
didn't look at it as I didn't look at school
as a place to become a lawyer or to have
a fifty year career in the law. I looked at
it as an education and a great place to learn
to think and negotiate and write and then do whatever
(07:27):
I pleased with. I loved law school so much. I
loved the professors. I was excited by the Socratic method.
It made me so nervous, but I set off of it.
I just thought it was so exciting. And I didn't
mind the competitiveness and the grade curve and the I mean,
the tests were the elsat and the bar, and I
(07:48):
took two bars. I took the New York bar, and
then I moved to California and there was no reciprocity,
and I had to take two bars, and that was
those are the two hardest bar horrific. Yes, And then
now I you know, right, so that was not fun.
But I felt like all of those things were kind
of under my belt as achievements and things that kept
telling me I could accomplish things, but they were not fun.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
That part was not fun.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
I loved school, and I loved school more than I
loved law firm life.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
And as Nora said, she never wanted to go into
law firm life, but she excelled at law and caught
the big law bug like so many other young hopeful
law students.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
I definitely think that the big firms draw you in
in that way. Again, I was someone who was not
going with the plan to be a big corporate lawyer,
and yet I still fell in line, because again, if
you're getting good grades and doing well, that's where the
you know, that's where the prestige is and the money is,
and it's exciting and it feels like an accomplishment. So
(08:46):
and all the firms are knocking at your door. And
the year I was doing it, it was very fancy.
The recruiting and even when I got to the firm
were if you stayed till nine pm, you were taking
a town car home and you got a sixty five
dollars budget for dinner. Which was very exciting to eat
sushi in New York every night after graduation. So it
draws you in, and I made sense to me, even
(09:07):
though I was glad that I found a way out
of it, because I think you can be sucked in,
and it is important. I think a lot of people
got sucked in. There were one hundred and thirty six
of us at my first year class at Scott and
Arps in New York, and it was probably the biggest
firm in the world at the time. And again that
was exciting, so the camaraderie and the people we met,
and living in New York as a young person, it
was all so exciting, and sleeping in the office and
(09:29):
napping under our desks and just everything that hardcore law
firm life is.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
It certainly draws you in.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
And so I think you have to really make a
concerted effort if you want to get out to know
yourself and know what the next step can be, because
you're generally going to you're going to go to something
a little bit less fancy.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Still, despite joining big law, Nora made it a priority
to focus on the issues and work she grew up
so passionate about.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
I loved pro bono work because as a young associate,
again you're working as we one of thirty lawyers on
a case. You're the most junior person on the totem
pole are you know, you're doing the groundwork, which is
fine and exciting and you learn so much, but you're
still at the bottom. And with pro bono work, you're
in front of a judge in your first year. And
what was most exciting to me was that the clients
(10:17):
were women, because again I was a lifelong feminist and
cared about women and cared about low income women. Many
of them had children, and we got to do things
that were so impactful. And again, as a first year
law associate, I was going in front of a judge
with a low income woman who needed affordable housing and
I could make a media difference in her life.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
And I found it so rewarding.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
And I found it more rewarding than general corporate law
or securities litigation.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
That's just who I was.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
That was very exciting to some people, but I wanted
to be with more women and children and helping them
with my law degree SOD. I gravitated it so much.
Then I knew that that was really more my calling
than the other.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
So how did the two of you meet? Do you
guys have like a meet cute?
Speaker 1 (11:03):
We do. My father in law actually introduced us. My
father in law is quite a force, and when he
calls you and tells you that you are going to
have dinner with someone, you do it. So my husband
and I had just moved from New York to LA
and we'd been living in LA probably for about four months,
(11:23):
and he called and he said, Oh, I have this
great couple. You have to meet them. And she's great,
he's great, You're gonna love them. And we were like, okay, sure,
and so, you know, an awkward stranger double date. But
obviously they were lovely and we had a nice dinner.
And then Nora and I started talking about, you know,
I was a model, she was a lawyer, What were
we doing next, what were our next career paths, what
(11:44):
was what was our pivot? And so we were both
talking about our love for nonprofit and we talked about,
you know, our interest in helping children in need, families
in need, and it was something like that we both
had an interest in. So sort of that sparked something
that night.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
And at that point, were you both in kind of
a career pause, or you were working on something that
you then had to wind down to be able to
work together.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
I had moved to LA and there's not much modeling
in LA unless you're traveling back and forth to New
York or flying to Europe, and so I was looking
for something, looking for my next thing to do. I
was going back to school at the time and trying
to figure out what I wanted to do next, and
I was still working.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
I had transferred to the Los Angeles office of Scatt,
and I also was dipping back into some journalism, which
was kind of another story. But the scariest part was
probably leaving the law firm, because I think the path
of school and law school and I think continuing on
a lane like that is very comforting to someone who
(12:52):
cares about their resume and making the right choice and
then doing anything entrepreneurial or different is scary.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
I want to get into your headspace. Sometimes people are
pivoting towards something or towards something, and sometimes they're pivoting
away from what they're currently in. Where do you think
you fell in there?
Speaker 4 (13:12):
I knew I was pivoting, but I think it was
the one time where my pivot was undefined. I didn't
know where it was going, and I really was trying
to just at that point follow you know again, I
had been so stuck in like this has to be
this for the resume, and this has to be the
next brand, and this has to be this that at
this point, there's been something about baby to baby forever
(13:35):
that has just kind of taken on its own life,
and so so many exciting things have happened and fallen
into our laps and things that we've created, and so
I think at that moment, yes, I was trying to
pivot in in terms of an expansion of something I
cared about, but I really didn't know where it was
going to go.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Well, being pregnant and being a model, I was definitely
pivoting away from being a model because you can't really
much modeling when you're pregnant. So for me, it was
definitely what's my next step here. I'm now living in
LA I don't want to live out of a suitcase anymore.
I don't want to have to hop on a plane
with twenty four hours notice and fly to Europe when
I have a child. All of those things were sort
(14:16):
of happening to me, and I was looking for something
that I wanted to do next, and I knew it
was with children.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
I also think we both had our first child as well,
which inspired us even more to be thinking in the
children's space. And it was how we knew a lot
of the nonprofits that we started visiting, which was kind
of our next step. So again we didn't immediately go
to baby to baby. We instead kind of casually said
let's take some next steps and we started visiting other nonprofits.
(14:48):
So we visited homeless shelters, we visited a refugee center
with Kelly's mother in law. We went to foster care agencies.
We would just take meetings with people and just kind
of ask what was happening, being, what their needs were,
what hole there was that potentially we could help with.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
And we were surprised.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
With the answers we got because I think we assumed
they were going to talk about low funding or personnel
or something in that area, and across the board, they
all told us they needed diapers, They needed diapers and
other basic essentials. So the point that we kept getting
was these programs couldn't do the work they were intended
(15:28):
to do. If a mother had a child in a
dirty diaper or without it, or without food, or without
any of their basic essentials. So, whether it was a
teacher talking about getting kids to school, a parenting program,
a social services program trying to get parents to parenting courses,
(15:49):
someone trying to get moms to fill out insurance claims
or employment forms, they couldn't do any of their work
without these basic essentials. It was a very simple problem
they were telling us, and we heard it loud and clear,
and it's been probably our biggest learning a Baby to
Baby since that point is to listen and to never
assume that we know what someone else needs, especially someone
(16:12):
living in a different situation, and to always be listening,
listening to the community, listening to the children, listening to
the moms, and really understanding what they needed. In that day,
those that period of time where we were out there
taking coffees, taking meetings, it was a very clear message
these programs needed basic essentials in order to do their jobs.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
When we come back, Kelly and Nora talk about meeting
the founders of Baby to Baby and feeling like it
finally filled the exact need they kept hearing about after
dozens of meetings, Kelly and Nora finally came across Baby
to Baby and immediately knew it was the right fit.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
We met them and they were very open to us
coming in and takeing over. And we looked at it
and we were like, this is something that's going to
be big. This is a huge need. We see this need.
We've gone on these meetings, we've met all these nonprofits.
We see the huge need here. We see the potential
(17:14):
for this to be huge. And we knew from day one.
People ask us all the time, did you know Baby
to Bay was going to be so big? And we say, yeah,
we did. We knew we saw the need. We saw that,
you know, this was a gap that needed to be filled.
And from the day that we announced ourselves as the
co CEOs, we had a small cocktail party and Jessica Alba,
(17:36):
Nicole Richie came and a photo of them ran in
US magazine and it said the Baby to Baby event
underneath it. And from that day we were sitting in
our tiny six hundred square foot storefront hearing the phone
ring and Edelman pr was on the phone and they said, oh,
we'd love to give you, you know, one hundred thousand diapers
(17:59):
and one hundred thousand dollars to have an event with Huggies,
And at that moment, they were like, but do you
accept pallettes and we were like, of course, we accept pallettes,
and we're googling what is a palette? And then they're like,
and do you have forklifts? And we're like, yes, we
have forklifts, and we're like, how do you run a forklift?
But that truck came and we unloaded that truck and
(18:20):
those one hundred thousand diapers ourselves with a really nice
truck driver and one intern because it was just the
two of us and one intern at the time, and
they flew out the door within twenty four hours. So
not only had we seen the need from meeting with
all these different nonprofits and talking to them about what
the needs were of families, but seeing the social workers
(18:42):
come in and take them that very same day really
was a huge light bulb and showed us, what, you know,
how much need there was and how this could just
be had so much potential to be enormous.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
They were doing something different in that they were collecting
gently used items and clothing from moms, very local and
Los Angeles. I think a lot of whom they went
to preschool with as a start, and they would drop
off their gently used stuff and then they would in
turn find a shelter or a home for it. So ironically,
what we do is has become very different in that
(19:17):
we do not collect gently use items at all, because
that ended up being not scalable for us. We've now
given out three hundred and seventy five million items in
the last twelve years, which are all new, and that
was just the model that we found. We also continue
not to We don't give two moms directly unless we're
(19:37):
at some specialized events. Instead, we have a network of
one thousand partners across the country. We're serving all fifty states,
two hundred and seventy seven cities, and so we are
serving both enormous organizations like the major school districts in
Los Angeles and New York and Chicago, and hospitals, and
then also homeless shelter is, domestic violance shelters, foster care
(19:58):
agencies and now it's what we've built has really been
also a logistics effort where we're getting millions of items
out the door every day on trucks and planes to
other organizations across the country, who in turn give them
(20:18):
to low income children in their program.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Perhaps what Baby to Baby is best known for. Their
secret weapon to help me as many moms and babies
as possible is celebrity engagement. Their gala consistently includes stars
like Kim Kardashian, Gwyneth Paltrow, Ayisha Curry, and so many more.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
We are back, so listen.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
The Baby to Baby Gala event happened this weekend in
Los Angeles.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
We're going to have some fun because it was so
much fashion on the red carpet.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
The twenty twenty three Baby Too Baby Gala turns a
night of star studded fashion into a mission to help children.
Kim Kardashian and a black floral lace gown, Hailey Bieber
in a sleek dress, and Salma Hayek Pinot in a
green dress all shine for a cause they're not.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
But I think that celebrity moment really taught us something
from day one, and it was to build a community
of women, and not just celebrities, but CEOs and lawyers
and venture capitalists and just impressive strong women in their
own fields who could help us. And you know, our
(21:22):
whole goal is to support mothers so it's a lot
of women supporting women, and that term gets tossed around
a lot. But when we can use these celebrities for good,
and we like to say we've flipped like sponsorships on
their head, although agents and managers probably don't love us
for that. But when we can have a celebrity come
(21:42):
to a baby to baby event. You know, obviously most
people know about our yearly ganual Gala, which obviously gets
a lot of press, but we do have these monthly
events for children in our program, and a lot of
times will have celebrity ambassadors come and stand in front
of a step and repeat for a company, and they'll
(22:03):
do an Instagram post for the company thanking them for
hosting the baby to Baby event. And that's how we
make money. You know, those corporate partnerships not only give
us financial donations, but they also give us product. So
if we have an event with Jen Garner and she's
in front of a Huggy stepper repeat and we get
(22:24):
three million diapers and three million wipes and also a
financial donation for her attending and being a host, that
really moves the needle in such a way. And that
was sort of a light bulb that went off very
early on. Okay, we can use these celebrity moms. They
feel good, they're coming, they're supporting Baby to Baby and
(22:44):
us and the families in our program. But also we
can use them to raise money. We can use them
to raise awareness, we can use them to give these
product donations. I mean in kind donations are a huge
part of how we've been able to distribute three hundred
and seventy five million eaes. When corporations are giving us
a million diapers a year or you know, a million toothbrushes,
(23:05):
and these are things that we really need for the families.
That is something that we learned early on was something
we could really use. And obviously we're lucky to be
living in Los Angeles surrounded by a lot of celebrity moms,
but I think it can go back to any community.
You know, strong women in your community who want to
support you, support the work you're doing, support families in need.
(23:26):
That was really something that we learned very early on
and went with full force. The celebrities who are a
part of Baby are really phenomenal, and we always say
they're absolutely never names on a piece of paper. So
if we have someone on our board or our extended board,
which is called our Angels. They are women who are
(23:47):
showing up. They are showing up with their children to volunteer.
They are showing up at events to help us get
sponsorship dollars. They are giving us millions of dollars. They
are giving us hundreds of millions of donations.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
They are getting on planes with us to advocate for
the removal of sales tax.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
They are performing in our gala.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
They are really deeply involved, and so I think many
people are probably looking for someone just to attend something
or write their name on something. But we're really luckier
than that in that we have these deeply involved women.
I think it starts with they're all moms and they
believe in our mission. Our mission is also very simple.
So our mission is to get basic essentials to children
(24:29):
in poverty. It's really bipartisan. It is something that I
think most people can agree on, and especially parents. Immediately
when people become parents, I think you don't have to
give them any talking points about our diaper program. The
fact that one in two families in this country cannot
afford diapers for their children is startling to anyone who's
(24:51):
ever put on a diaper, and they understand it. They
know how expensive they are, even if they're not struggling,
and they know how expensive items are for children. And
so the women have been so invested in us continuing
to get the price down and starting manufacturing diapers ourselves,
and watching the arc of our decade where we started
with getting small donations and then we moved to buying
(25:14):
them at wholesale, and then we started manufacturing them so
that we're making them for eighty percent less and distributing
five times more. I think they feel a real ownership
in that, and I think we really bring them in
and have them be They're a real part of Baby
to Baby, and I think they're celebrated in that way.
We also explain to them their impact, so they understand
what they're doing, how they're helping, how much money they're raising,
(25:37):
what a social post will mean for a sponsor, what
that will mean for Baby to Baby, what we will
do with a five hundred thousand dollars donation, how many
more diapers we can distribute, And so I think we
educate them so that they understand what an impact they're making.
They're obviously extremely busy women, so we try not to
make our asks long or complicated, and also so lucky
(26:01):
to have so many of these women, So we're not
counting on one ambassador to do everything because that would
be time consuming. Instead, we have probably over one hundred
women and men who show up at our events, who
come to our gala, who stand with diapers in their hands,
who again fly on planes to advocate, who named names.
(26:25):
You know, Justin Bieber came and sang for children during COVID,
and Jen Garner and Gwyneth Paltrow and Jessica Albo and
Megan Markle and Prince Harry and Ellen Pompeo all wore
masks during COVID and during the height of COVID in
that danger stood side by side with us, putting diapers
and basic essentials in our family's cars so that they
(26:46):
could have the basic essentials they needed. Kim Kardashian over
the years has given us millions of dollars. You know,
Sierra was on stage probably months after having a baby,
performing for our audio.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
They just really there's so.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Many of them, and they participate in so many ways,
and I feel like we are certainly lucky to have them,
and I think they appreciate and care deeply about Baby
to Baby.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Above all, Nora and Kelly want the world to see
Baby to Baby for what it is, a fully thriving
and successful business, one that they've worked hard to build.
When we come back, they talk about the sexism they've
faced as CEOs of a female centered nonprofit and more.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Now back to the show.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
We talk about Baby to Baby as a business. We
talk about it as CEOs who run a business. You know,
we're in a different tax bracket, but we have all
the same problems that any business has. And so you know,
we have an eighty million dollar budget and not as
in kind and financial, but still it's you know, we
have hr issues, we have reviews. We're doing the same
(27:54):
thing that every other business is doing. So when people
you know, sometimes flued nonprofits from things, you know, there
are these lists, and we've been very lucky to be
on you know, the Times Most Influential Companies list in
twenty twenty three. That was a big moment for us
because it was breaking down the barrier that a nonprofit
couldn't be seen as a business and seen on these lists,
(28:16):
because a lot of times we do see that, oh well,
you're a nonprofit, Oh well, you know, this is just businesses,
and we're like, but we are a business and we
have all the same issues. So I think, you know,
nonprofit comes with a lot of I think there's things
that are set in people's minds that maybe are a
little archaic. So when we're trying to talk to people
(28:39):
about you know that there's a little sexism around being
in nonprofit. There's people will ask Nora and I questions like, oh,
how many hours a week do you spend on baby
to baby? And we are stunned. How do you think
you distribute three hundred and seventy five million items to
a million children across the country on a few hours
(29:01):
a week. This is our job, this is our career.
We've dedicated our lives and careers to this, So there
is some sort of I don't think anyone's asking a
male CEO that question if there's a male CEO of
a nonprofit. So we do deal with a lot of that,
and we're trying to break down those barriers on making
sure that nonprofits are considered to be just like businesses.
(29:22):
We have all the same problems and issues that a
business has.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
In case you can't tell, we find this notion very
offensive when people ask us about something the two of
us and our amazing team talk about frequently because it
is a business in every way. Again, we have an
eighty million dollar budget, which is twenty million in cash
and it's over sixty million dollars in kind goods. We
are building, we have real estate, we have finance, we
(29:49):
have hr we have a growing staff, we have you know,
we were ranked by Fast Company as the most innovative
nonprofit in the world a few years ago, and again
Time magazine a is one of the one hundred most
influential companies. And our proudest part about that award was
that they called us a company, which we are, which
hopefully to remind people that nonprofits our businesses and our companies.
(30:13):
And again, the fact that donors to nonprofit have the
tax status is different. Other than that, there truly is
no difference except for people are doing something wonderful. And
I think one of the reasons we find it so
offensive is that it's so important that young people choose
a career a nonprofit. We want men and women to
(30:33):
be called to nonprofit because we think we need some
of the best minds in this country to go into
nonprofit and solve problems that are helping to solve poverty.
So anything that diminishes the value of a nonprofit, therefore,
we think is truly has such a negative effect on women,
on young people entering the field, and on the notion
(30:57):
of people wanting to spend their lives solving major issues
like hunger and poverty in this country.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
So talk to me about that, because this could be
so broad, the mission could be everything right, like you know,
serving underserved communities could could never end. I mean there's
endless amounts of work to do. How do you think
about it? Maybe I'll come back to Kelly. How do
you think about how narrowly you stick to your mission
or where you Expand yeah, I think it's hard.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
I think there are so many things you could do,
and there are so many stories you hear and so
many people to help. But I think we've seen our
efficiency comes with sticking to our mission, staying in our lane,
making sure that you know, our whole goal is this
goal getting you know, families in need the basic essentials
(31:48):
that they are so desperately needing. So that's what we
look at every time. You know, we were launching a
pilot program with the White House in HHS, and we
did that in twenty twenty three, and I think when
we were looking at it, it was like a little
bit out of our lane. It was like, hold on,
this is maternal health, but it's still newborn supplies. So
(32:10):
when we looked at making these kids, we made these,
you know, maternal and newborn supply kits, and it was
items for moms, which we already distribute, plus items for babies,
which we already distribute. So as much as it felt
like it was a little out of our wheelhouse, it
still stayed in line with making sure we were distributing
the basic essentials that families need. So that was something
(32:32):
that we kind of pivoted towards that was a little
bit out of just like, oh, zero to twelve children
need these backpacks and school supplies and diapers for babies.
So I think there's certain times where we'll eke out
a little bit of our lane, but most of the
time we're just making sure that we are diaper need
is our number one focus. We know one and two
(32:53):
families are struggling to afford them. We know fourteen percent
of a low income famili's after tax income goes to diapers,
and it's such an expense for family, so we want
to make sure that we're meeting that expense. We know,
when we can provide diapers to families that they can
keep their lights on, put food on the table, pay
their rent. So that is something that's really important to us,
(33:14):
and we've always tried to stick to that and make
sure that everything that we're doing is focused on that.
You know, even when we're doing fun things like a
Goop campaign for diaper need where Gwyneth Paltrow is launching
a fake diape hair and it's got rhyinestones and fake fur,
it's all coming back to the fact that, you know,
(33:34):
we want to take the tax off of diapers. We
talk about every day. There are twenty six states left
that still tax diapers like a luxury item. We were
able to remove that sales tax in California, but there's
still such a long way to go. And diaper need
is always our number one focus because it is really
what families struggle with every day. So I think the
(33:56):
more we stay in that lane, the more we remember
what we're focused on, the more we can help families.
I love a narrow mission.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
I feel like it's completely guides us and reminds us
what we're doing and gives us such a roadmap.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
I think when we.
Speaker 4 (34:11):
Know that we have one point five billion requests for
diapers and there's an insatiable need and we're not meeting
it yet, we don't have to listen to the noise
of people saying to do something else, and so I
feel like it's actually a very strong guide for us.
And even with our policy and advocacy work, as Kelly
was mentioning, with the diaper tax, again, it was very
(34:32):
specific and narrow in our lanth. So does that mean
we should take on all child advocacy, all poverty advocacy, advocacy. No,
it means that if something is specific to our mission
and we really believe that we can have an impact
that was so clearly in our wheelhouse and we had
tools to help it, then of course we would take
(34:52):
it on. And so that is what led us to
advocating to Governor Newsom and to the legislature in California
to argue to have it removed. And when that worked,
we've now worked to go state by state and continue
helping to remove it. But that does not mean we're
going to join a campaign to remove tax from every
(35:14):
other item that's taxed as a luxury. We're a mission specific. Again,
that doesn't mean we don't pivot. When there was a
formula crisis a few years ago, all of a sudden,
formula got our top attention instead of diapers because at
that moment, when babies who are in low income babies
especially couldn't access the nutrition they needed to stay alive,
(35:35):
that then was able to tip the scale a little bit,
and we went into a very very deep focus on formula,
figuring out a way to get millions of bottles into formula,
into mom's hands and baby's hands at that moment when
they needed it the most. And that was a pivot,
But it wasn't day, night and day pivot. It was saying,
here's some of our top items, and right now formula
(35:58):
needs our attention, or right now it's back to school
and we're going to make sure these kids.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Have backpacks and school supplies.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
Or because of maternal mortality, we know that mothers need
to have the items they need for their babies directly
after giving birth to combat that. So it's not as
if it's not a single issue or a single item,
but it's still a narrow emission and it really serves
as a very clear guide for us. But I do
(36:25):
feel like we love the word pivot because it's also innovating.
And again we pride ourselves and our amazing organization on
its innovation. But we feel like we pivot so much
every day at Baby to Baby and during these last
twelve years, and what it started as is not what
it is twelve years later, and now the fact that
we're making our own diapers and that we have this
(36:46):
growing disaster relief program and that we're responding constantly. Everyone
had to pivot during COVID, but we feel like a
Baby to Baby it was such a gigantic pivot. We
grew five times. We started raising five times the amount
of money, Our staff grew five times, We had to
have five times the amount of warehouse space.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
We couldn't give things out.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
In person anymore, and so we had to completely redo
our system of how we were getting emergency supplies into
the hands of.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Children to need.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
And again then with disasters, that wasn't something we ever
had contemplated. Yes, we knew Baby to Baby was going
to be big, we did not know that we were
going to be a disaster relief agency. But when we
saw we went to our first disaster in Houston and
saw that families were displaced living in the astrodome with
cots that looked like army style cots that were made
for men, and they were giving out items that were
(37:34):
only for adults. A disaster relief is very adult focus,
and we said, where are the cribs, we're the diapers,
where are the toys to keep these kids busy? Where
the safety items and the hygiene items? And so again
we saw another opening to say, now we're going to
Now disaster relief is going to become one of our
principal goals. So I just think it's I think we
(37:54):
loved the idea of being on today because pivot is
such a fun word that we use a lot of
baby to baby that we want to inspire our team
also to be pivoting in our everyday work. So just
a fun note that I think we keep pivoting and
pivoting and we're all proud of that.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
That's going to be a SoundBite for sure. So I
asked this question of all of my gifts, and I'll
ask each of you guys separately, what is something that
you saw at the time as like a negative or
a low point in your life, but now in hindsight,
you really see it as a positive and potentially having
launched you to the success that you are now. So
I can start with you, Kelly.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Yeah, I think you know modeling. It sounds glamorous and fun,
and it is, and as a first career it was great.
I got to travel the world, I learned so much.
I started working at such a young age. But I
also think there is a lot of negativity that surrounds
you every single day. People are criticizing like, oh, I
(38:53):
don't know about her. Her nose is too big, her
nose is too small, she's too short, she's too tall.
It's just, you know, there's a lot of criticisms that
come along with it, and it can definitely be hard
on people. But I think it built a really tough
shell for me and I really learned resilience. And so
what I take from that every day is I'm not
(39:16):
afraid to ask anyone anything, and I'm all fine hearing
the word no. So you know, a lot of the
day can be asking people, oh, can you do us
this favor? Can you give us this amount of money.
Can you show up at this event? Can you post
on social media? I've for this million, you know item
donation and no doesn't really phase me. So I think
(39:39):
it really helped me to be where I am today.
It taught me so much about resiliency, and I think
that negativity maybe pivoted to positive because it works every day.
Speaker 4 (39:50):
Now, what about you, Nora, I would go back to
the stress that I felt in terms of choosing career.
On my first day of Women in the Law, of course,
I took at USC with Susan Estrich. She said, if
you're a woman, there are three things a career, a husband,
(40:13):
and kids you can choose to. And it really stuck
with me and bothered me, but stuck with me. And again,
I was this feminist my whole life, and that was
really upsetting to hear in the middle of my law
school from an established legal professor. And I felt it
and I wanted to I wanted to prove to myself.
(40:35):
I wanted to prove to other women. I now want
to show my daughter but also my son. That's not
the case. Everyone on your show does it all, or
tries to do all of it, not does it all,
but does those three things or not always, but sometimes
they do, and they are possible and they're hard. But
I think what's really important. The reason I think it
has turned so positive is that I feel like I
(40:57):
carry that around with me in terms of toughness and
in terms of mentoring or teaching, whether it's our phenomenal
team at Baby to Baby or my children or young
people that I get to speak to about really finding
something you love so that you can have all of
those things if you want them, because I think it
really comes from loving what you do. I think I'm
(41:18):
so lucky and we're so lucky at Baby to Baby
because it's obviously a career that has so much fulfillment
and personal fulfillment, but I think people find it in
so many different ways, and so I think it was
worth nineteen internships. I think it was worth pounding on
people's doors and trying out things and seeing what I
liked and seeing what I didn't like, and going to
school and switching jobs. I think all of that is
(41:41):
really worth it, and the stress is worth it because
I do think it can lead you to a career
that you love, and I think if you love your career,
you can find a way to balance things better.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
Well, thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
Thank you for having us, Thank you. This was so
much fun.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Kelly and nor are continuing the important work to provide
essential items to women and babies across the country. Help
Baby to Baby reach their one billion diaper goal by
visiting them at babydobaby dot org to see how you
can get involved. From volunteer opportunities to sponsorships. There's accessible
and meaningful ways at every level. You can also follow
(42:19):
Baby to Baby on Instagram at Baby to Baby.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
Thanks for listening to this episode of she Pivots.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
If you made it this far, you're a true pivoter,
so thanks for being part of this community. I hope
you enjoyed this episode, and if you did leave us
a rating, please be nice and tell your friends about us.
To learn more about our guests, follow us on Instagram
at she Pivots the Podcast, or sign up for our
newsletter where you can get exclusive behind the scenes content,
or on our website she Pivots the Podcast Talk to
(42:49):
You Next Week special thanks to the she Pivots team.
Executive producer Emily Edavelosk, Associate producer and Social me Media
connoisseur Hannah Cousins, Research director Christine Dickinson, Events and Logistics
coordinator Madeline Snovac, and audio editor and mixer Nina pollock
(43:10):
I endorse Che Pivots
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