"Ahava אַהֲבָה" - An Interview with Netta Asner-Minster - Shebrew in the City

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Nicole Kelly (00:05):
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(00:36):
Hi, this is Nicole Kelly andthis is Shebrew in the City, and
I have my first interview afterquite a long break, so I'm
really excited about this andthis guest in particular.
Today I am talking to NettaAsner-Minster and she is a

(00:59):
Jewish educator and influencerand I've been following her for
quite some time, and I was justtalking before we started about
how I'm so excited about thisinterview because I get to
actually talk to her instead ofjust watching her videos.
So how are you doing today?

Netta Asner-Minster (01:13):
I am doing well.
I'm after a good night's sleep.
I have a four and a half monthold who, thank God, is now
sleeping at night.

I'm jealous of that.
My daughter didn't really startsleeping through the night
until she was like 18 months oldand going to bed a decent time.

So she doesn't sleep through the night.
She's in her.
She went through her regressionand she wakes up, you know, in
the middle of the night, but shegives me, you know, more time
than before.

That's good.
That's good.
I'm jealous.
So, like I was saying before westarted, you are my first
international guest.
Netta is talking to us fromJerusalem, so she's my first
guest who is in Israel and myfirst international guest, so
I'm really excited to talk toher.
So, kind of just jumping in,you were not born in Israel, so
where were you born and what wasyour religious upbringing like

(02:02):
before you made Aliyah and movedto Israel, born and what was
your religious upbringing likebefore you made aliyah and moved
to israel?

so I was born in silver spring, maryland.
That's where I grew up until Iwas eight years old, and um, I
grew up monorthodox, but myparents themselves were are not
so as observant as I am today.
Um, so we also went to aconservative synagogue, but it
was one of those conservativesynagogues that were borderline

(02:28):
non-Orthodox, meaning that itwas mixed seating, but they
wouldn't have women participatein services or they wouldn't
have a female rabbi.
They actually had an Orthodoxrabbi in the conservative shul.
But that is also what kind ofstarted my Jewish journey,
because through being in thatshul and being able to be in a
mixed seating as a female youngkid, I was able to lead prayers

(02:50):
in the shul, so that was verymeaningful to me.

I've never I've never heard of such a thing like
an Orthodox rabbi at aconservative synagogue.
It's so interesting.
I went to a.
I grew up going to aconservative synagogue, but I
feel like, having since moved toNew York, everything's a little
bit different.
On the coast, what's consideredconservative here is closer to
like Orthodox, modern Orthodox,where at home it's a little less

(03:15):
, a little more lenient, it's alittle more liberal.
So it's just so interesting tohear about, like I don't want to
say denominations I don't knowif that's even the correct term
but the different like types ofJudaism and how it influenced
people.

That synagogue is just one of a kind.
It's like many are verydifferent nowadays, but yes.

Yeah, yeah, I've learned that synagogues
sometimes operate so differentlythey almost feel like a
different denomination ofJudaism because, like I'll talk
to people who grew up in otherconservative synagogues, it was
like a very different experiencefor them.
So that's one of the things Ilove talking about with people
is kind of their specificjourney growing up.
So you said you were eight whenyou moved to Israel.

(03:53):
So what inspired your family tomake Aliyah and did this change
the observancy or how observantyour family was?

So basically, what brought us to
make Aliyah is that my mom isIsraeli and so the story is that
she actually went to the Statesbecause she was older and
hadn't gotten married yet andbasically went to change
location.
There's a Hebrew saying,mishanem Ako, mishanem Azal,

(04:23):
which means you're changing yourluck by changing the location.
So that's exactly what she didand she met my dad and she
always wanted to come back toIsrael and had family, and does
have family here, and my father,who is even older, his parents,
passed away and his motherpassed away when I was in second
grade.
So it just kind of made sensethat timeline, but it was always

(04:46):
in the cards that we were goingto make aliyah.
It just happened to be that itwas, you know, eight years after
I was born and my youngestbrother was two at the time.
I mean, I have one brother, butmy youngest sibling, basically,
and our observance did changebecause we didn't really have
the option or variety ofsynagogues around us.

(05:10):
In the same way, in theneighborhood we went to, the
synagogue was a little bit moreobservant, it was even.
It was orthodox, it was notnon-orthodox, and but the
schools we went to were a littlebit more open.
So I don't, I mean it didn'tchange.
It changed our observance level, by the way we actually
practiced, but in the home westayed.

(05:31):
You know the way we werebeforehand.
But yeah, definitely ourobservance outside the house was
a little bit different, alittle bit more orthodox, just
because those were the optionsaround us is your mom from
Jerusalem or is she from adifferent part of Israel?

She's from Jerusalem.
Yeah, oh, that's nice that shewas able to kind of go back to
her hometown and bring herfamily with her.
Yeah, had you visited beforeyou made Aliyah?
No, so it was your first timegoing.
That's crazy.

Yeah, we were so throughout that eight
years that my mom, that we werein Maryland, my mom was having a
kid every year and a half.
It was just a lot the idea offlying to Israel, because there
was always a plan to be going toIsrael.
We knew we would just end upthere.

How did you feel about making the big move?
I moved across the country whenI was in my late 20s and I was
married and I feel like it wasdifficult.
So I can't imagine moving atsuch a young age to a completely
different country with you know.
I mean obviously being Jewish,you know you felt welcomed, but
you know a very differentculture and lifestyle.

It's funny because I think that I was just
at the age where I mean, on onehand, I'm able to still grasp
the culture I'm not too old butat the same time I've always
been American and Israeli.
It took me a long time toembrace that.
When I was in high school Iwould only answer people in
Hebrew.
I was very adamant that I'mIsraeli.
But then growing up and I thinkwe'll get there later on but I

(07:04):
ended up being in positions andjobs where I was constantly
using my English.
And here I've married a guywho's completely American.
But I've embraced both sides ofme.
But it took me a long time torealize that I am American and
also Israeli.
So I guess that was somethingthat I took and the change while

(07:24):
we were speaking about it forso long.
It was difficult and was moreand also difficult socially, to
be honest.
But it was young, enough agethat I was able to really fit in
and the big bonus was that Ihad my mom who spoke Hebrew, so
I really learned Hebrew veryquickly, to the point they'll
never forget in my first yearthe teacher who was supposed to
teach us.

(07:45):
She was on maternity leave andwhen she got back she did not
know that I made aliyah.
I did not know Hebrew well atall when we first moved, so you
know.
So that goes to show that Imean that it was an okay
transition regarding justculture-wise and language.
It was just later, on otherthings, that I had to embrace

(08:05):
about, you know, being beingpart of both worlds.

Yeah, it's funny because I was literally just
talking about this.
Last night there was a younglady she's 20 who won the
freestyle wrestling at theOlympics.
Yeah, for America, but sheidentifies as American.
Israeli and this is something Ihear a lot more from you know
people and see online thatthere's people who either were
born in Israel and live inAmerica or vice versa, or they
have an Israeli parent.
So I think it's an interestingidentity that's morphed that I

(08:32):
really like.
So you talked about beingmodern Orthodox.
Can you classify what thatmeans?
I live in a building with a lotof modern Orthodox people so I
feel like I could maybe touch onthat.
But being modern Orthodox Ithink for my listeners it would
clarify a couple things if youexplained exactly what that was.

For sure.
I will also say that for everyperson it's very different, that
a lot of these things areself-identification, stuff, like
that.
So I'll just say, for ingeneral, how I see it and that's
how I identify myself as thisis that religiously, I am
orthodox, I follow Jewish lawand it's very important to me.
I keep fully Shabbat and kosherand the laws of you know,
family, purity and whatever, theholidays and etc.

(09:17):
But what differentiates me fromsomebody who's, let's say,
ultra-orthodox, is that I amalso aware and exposed to the
modern world.
I'm now talking to you on apodcast, I use my computer, I
use my phone, I'm on Instagram,I'm aware of you know, pop
culture and I know who TaylorSwift is OK.
So then, when I'm listening tomusic, I'm listening to pop, pop

(09:38):
music and the popular musicrather than a shiur by a rabbi.
So, and another thing is that,yes, I follow Jewish law, but if
you, you know, see me, I am notcovering fully my hair, and I'm
aware that the ideal is that Iwould cover my hair, and that's
something that I would, you know, wish that I will get to

(09:59):
someday, but I don't, you know,really feel comfortable about
that right now personally, andthat's also something that makes
me non-orthodox is that Ichoose this and I'm okay with it
, rather than putting a wig onor fully covering my hair and
everything.
So that's kind of how Idifferentiate, or what it means
for me to be non-orthodox.

Interesting.
I like the autonomy of that.
This is what I want to do,especially when it comes to
covering hair.
If you could talk a little bitabout that, because you're the
expert about why Orthodox womencover their hair and I've also
noticed that a lot of what wewould consider modern Orthodox
women they've been putting on.
They wear headbands or likehead coverings to some extent,
and I know that you do that.

(10:41):
Can you explain kind of thethought process behind that?

extent I know that you do that.
Can you explain kind of thethought process behind that?
Sure, so the Jewish lawregarding so, first of all,
married women are supposed tocover their hair.
That's first and foremost.
It's a sign that a woman ismarried and, according to the
Jewish texts, you, either youhave to cover your hair, okay,
so there's two opinions of whatthat means.

(11:04):
It's either all your hair,that's what what's important, so
that sometimes you'll seepeople wrapping their hair so
you can see it's like in aponytail or something like that,
but they've wrapped their hairinto some extent, or that it's
their head.
So they'll cover the top oftheir head with their hat, with
a scarf of some kind, but you'llsee hair flowing down.
So those are two opinions.

(11:24):
That that's what you'resupposed to do.
Now I want to say, like in the19th century or something like
that, in the modern era, therewere rabbis who came out who
said you know, this really isn'ta mark of you know.
I mean, this really isn'tsomething that you need for
modesty, because even women whoare modest in general, you know,

(11:47):
they don't cover their hair andit's not considered something
immodest that a married woman isnot covering her hair.
So if that's what's common inyour community and that's where
you live and people don't covertheir hair necessarily, then you
can do that you don't have tocover your hair, and then that
there's a lot of backlash withthat, but still those opinions
have stayed.
So that's why you have peoplewho, let's say, will wear a

(12:11):
headband or something of thissort that's just symbolic on
their head, just so that youknow I am married and that I
have something differentcompared to somebody who's not
married.
But at the same time, I'm notcompletely following the Jewish
law and I will say that theexplanation sometimes people
give is that you know, I live ina community, in society people

(12:33):
don't really cover their hair ingeneral and that makes you know
me stand out or that makes meactually like here, if you're
wearing in a very beautiful way,that can be maybe even not so
modest, because people won'tnecessarily know that it's a wig
.
Um, which, uh, funny story, my,my husband, who was not Jewish,
beforehand his friends actuallywent to like a supermarket and

(12:54):
really thought that a womandidn't, that it wasn't a wig,
let's put it that way and I waslike this is defeating the
purpose yeah, you know that's sointeresting.

you brought that up because my husband had a
conversation with this aboutsomebody a couple of years ago
about, like, for me, my hair isa mess, all always Like it looks
the best when someone does itprofessionally.
So if I chose to cover my hairwith a wig, it would probably
look better, which I think islike counterproductive to the
idea a little bit.
So it's.
It's such an interesting topicto me because I didn't grow up,

(13:23):
you know, in a family thatcovered their heads or were
around women who did that.
So I think I'm just fascinatedby the personal choices that
married women make.
Yes, you talked also aboutbeing modest.
Can you talk a little bit abouthow being an Orthodox woman
affects the way that you dresspersonally?
I know, like you said, it'sdifferent for everybody, but for

(13:44):
you personally what that means.

Sure, I just want to add to the
beforehand that I'll saySephardim, and specifically
there's a known rabbi from the20th century, rabbi Ovadia Yosef
, who actually say that you'renot supposed to wear a wig.
So you'll see a lot ofSephardic women wear hats.
Ok, because they exactly saythat the wig is going against

(14:05):
that.
So usually women who wear wigsare Ashkenazi and also Hasidic
as well.
So about the modesty, so for meit.
So I'll say, when I first metJohn, I would wear more cleavage
a little bit and not not havingto do with him.
That's just how I wasbeforehand.

(14:26):
yeah, yeah and I would wearskirts or, you know, jeans or
shorts.
I didn't shorts, whatever theywere above my knee, and now I
don't do that.
So, meaning, I make sure that I, even though I'm wearing short
sleeves and I will wear pants,that's because you know what I'm
talking about.
Society today, I find that, youknow, people don't look at

(14:48):
pants and are like, wow, that's,you know, not modest.
So I'll be, I'll choose wiselywhat pants I'll wear.
I don't wear shorts, I don'twear something that's, you know,
very, very tight.
That's not what I would wear.
But I will wear pants and I wear, you know, things that are
beyond my knee in that case,whether it's a skirt or a dress,
and also, I won't wear anythingthat doesn't have sleeves and

(15:12):
I'll always be covered.
So, yes, what I wear looksnormal to the.
Somebody seeing me walkingaround doesn't look out of the
ordinary that I'm wearing a verylong skirt or long sleeves when
it's boiling outside of theordinary that I'm wearing a very
long skirt or long sleeves whenit's boiling outside.
But, um, but I I changedpersonally and I'm mindful of
what I buy, like mymother-in-law wanted to get me a

(15:33):
shirt and it hadn't opened back, I said, no, I'm not gonna wear
that uh.
So you know I do have to thinktwice before getting something
yeah, no, that makes sense.

You talked about pants.
Correct me if I'm wrong, butdoesn't the rule with that have
to do with I think if I I mightbe completely wrong and we're
going to edit this have to dowith, like, cross-dressing, like
wearing clothing belonging tothe other sex, and that's why
religious women don't wear pants.
Is that where that comes from?

So there's two things.
You're correct that in theTorah it says that.
You know.
You're completely correct thatin the Torah it says that a
woman and a man should not wearlike the other's clothing.
And so from that you know theysay a pant is a man's clothing
and therefore you shouldn't wearpants.
Now at the same time you cansay but it's now women's

(16:18):
clothing, so you can wear that.
But the thing is is that heresomebody pointed out to me, or a
very close friend who's moreorthodox than me.
She was saying you know, whenyou wear jeans they're very
tight and they show the shape ofthe leg or they show the shape
of a woman's, you know, of abutt also, and that's not modest
and honestly, I can, I can seethat and understand that.
But and again, going back towhat we're talking about with

(16:41):
the head covering, it dependswhat community you're in.
If you're in a really orthodoxcommunity, then nobody's wearing
pants and you're wearing thesevery tight jeans, then you'll
stick out like a sore thumb.
You'll be very obvious.
But if you live in a communitythat it's mixed and you have a
variety of people, if you'rewearing normal jeans and not
something that's like shorts orwhatever, or you're wearing
pants that are a little bit morewide, then that could be

(17:06):
considered modest, and that'show I see it personally.
But so it's those two thingstogether, also the idea of not
wearing a man's clothing, butalso the fact that some jeans
are really, you know, not modestIf you, according to you, know
those standards that you go by,in that case, Gotcha.

So jumping back a little bit.
So, being as you identify as anAmerican and an Israeli, do you
celebrate American holidaysalong with Jewish holidays, like
, for example, thanksgiving orFourth of July, or I don't know?
Israel, I'm sure, has Mother'sDay, but is it the same day as
American Mother's Day?
So how does that work in yourfamily?

So growing up so I'm talking about the
Asner family we didn't really dothat and I think also I think
it was because my mom is Israeli, so all these holidays were
kind of foreign to her and itwasn't super important to my dad
.
But now in the Minster familyit's very important, and so is

(18:01):
the holiday of, you know, superBowl, as well as football stuff
like that.
You know, and I I'm going to.
I now know so much about youknow Green Bay Packers and the
Lions, because those are myhusband's teams.
I hope I haven't made peoplemad right now.

I know American sports teams can be very
divisive.
It's it's kind of likecult-like.

Exactly so I'll say, in our family then it
is very much celebrated.
We do a thanksgiving meal andwe in fact live in a very
american neighborhood.
So, um, you have to order aturkey.
They don't like sell it in thestore, uh and and, and they know
, like the store nearby they'relike, oh, you need turkey, and
it's like they're enormous.

(18:45):
I don't know where they getthem from, where these Israeli
turkeys are from, but they know,they know.

End of.

November or whatever.
That's so funny.

Thanksgiving was never a big thing in my personal
family growing up but myhusband's family Thanksgiving is
huge but I always felt likeit's because Passover was a huge
event in my family.
My great aunt would have like40 people over.
It was like she'd bring someonein to wash dishes.
It was like the super bowl ofholidays.
So I feel like passover becamemore impressive and now like
it's just me and like my familyand a couple non-jewish friends

(19:17):
at passover and I'm kind of likeI miss that.
I actually, for I had to writeum, uh, like a screenplay
treatment for a class I'm takingand they were talking about
like the ideal meal because itwas a food and it's a food and
film class and I described likea Passover meal where everybody
in my important my life dead andalive and come back so clearly
like Pesach is a very importantholiday for me and I'm excited

(19:39):
as my daughter gets older tohopefully like, expand that to
like her friends and theirfamily.
She's three, she's three, she'sthree.
She's so funny.
We were at like a taughtShabbat the other day and I
guess I wasn't covering my eyesgood enough to say the blessing
over the candle.
She's like Mommy eyes.
So we're teaching her like veryearly.
She knows she can't say theprayers completely yet, but she

(20:00):
knows the deal.

And she was like you are not covering your
eyes, mommy.
So she points out, when myhusband or my dad don't have
their kippah on, he's likekippah.

I don't know, they're such like rule followers
and then half the time and thenthe other half they do whatever
they want.
It's a fun age, so kind ofcontinuing with growing up.
Did you have a bat mitzvah?

Yeah, so, um, I did have a bat mitzvah.
Actually this goes to thejewish journey, unique situation
, type of person and family thatwe are.
That, um, I, it was an orthodoxbat mitzvah and everything but,
um, I also wanted to make afeminist high school growing up.
Um, and we, I read torah, torahand from an actual scroll,

(20:47):
which is pretty unique, and thepart there was a, there was a
whole ceremony surrounding mybat mitzvah, rather than just
being a party with me saying afew words.
It became something that wasvery thought out, that my mom
and aunt did a song together andI joined them in the song and
another aunt, you know, did apoem for me and there were

(21:08):
various speeches and in DvarTorah and reading Torah and it
wasn't part of a Shabbat service, it was during the week, but I
added much more to it and itdefinitely was innovative
compared to what other peoplewere doing at the time and
especially within an Orthodoxschool, to what other people
were doing at the time andespecially within an Orthodox
school.

It's so interesting kind of the what is
the word?
Kind of the history, I guessyou could say, of bat mitzvahs,
because, coming from aconservative synagogue that my
family had basically helpedfound, I had older second
cousins who they'd basically dothe prayer over the candles at a
Friday night service and thatwas it.
And then I was the first womanon either side of my family to
have to read from the Torah andhave an actual bat mitzvah.
And I didn't really realizethat until my husband asked me.
He was like wow, that was kindof a big deal.

(21:53):
And then I had mentioned we hadtalked about, like when we were
talking about the interviewthemes and you're like

(22:27):
no-transcript and we have somewine to like a half a million
dollar party on the Upper WestSide.
So, I don't know, I'm justfascinated by it, and people
spend obscene amounts of money,like some of these party
planners I follow on Instagram.
They're showing these bar andbat mitzvahs and I'm just like
that's a down payment on a house, a very nice house.

Wow, and also I mean I'm wondering also
how that affects people in theclass socially, whatever,
because you're creating all thispressure of you have to do a
crazy and then there'd be like abreak and you'd go away and
like the girls would get theirhair done and they'd have like a
night party.

But of course, night parties are more expensive
and my mom was always like Iwant to save money spending your
wedding because nobody sitsaround and talks about their bat
mitzvahs and I say this almostevery episode jokes on her.
I sit around and talk about mybat mitzvah all the time with
people so.

(23:31):
But yeah, no, it's so Even justalso like weddings are so
different in other countries.
I like I see a lot of picturesfrom weddings in Israel and it's
this beautiful kind of we cometogether outside under the
chuppah and it's just a niceparty.
Where in America becomes thisinsane thing.
So I'm just obsessed with kindof the celebratory differences.

I'll just say about weddings for a second
that I was shocked that it's notjust a wedding, like you're
talking about the differences ofthe wedding itself, but you
have a l'chaim and an engagementparty, because you have also,
you know, the Jewish stuff andalso like a bachelorette, uh and
uh, you know, whatever you callit, like a bachelor party, yeah

(24:09):
and bridal showers rightexactly everything.
so you do also like the Americanthings that are common, and the
Jewish stuff too, and just likeyou end up with doing, you know
, 10 parties for one wedding.

Yeah, a lot of people they'll do like actual
trips for bachelorette parties.
It's very popular in, likeNashville in America is like the
bachelorette destination of thecountry and you know these
people are expected to paythousands of dollars to go on a

(24:41):
trip to support their friendwhere it's like we just went to
a bar for mine.
But people, it's a big deal fora lot of people.
It, I feel like it's justcapitalism and it's its finest,
but it's become kind of a normalthing.
I guess I don't know.
I feel like we had a really,really nice wedding but all
those parties leading up to itlike we didn't go crazy so I
think my husband had a prettyepic bachelor party, but he
didn't get all the other partiesthat I got, so it makes sense.

(25:02):
So you're living in Israel and abig part of living in Israel in
your late teens is serving inthe IDF, so can you talk to me a
little bit about?
You know when people serve inthe IDF, the requirements, you
know when you don't have to andwhat you did exactly when you

(25:23):
were in the IDF.

Sure.
So I'll just say that militaryservice is mandatory in Israel.
However, there are variouspeople and ways that you don't
have to serve.
I'll say, for example, israeliArabs are exempt, for example,
just because of conflict ofinterest or stuff like that.
I don't want people to haveissues with that, so they do

(25:48):
volunteer, but it has to bevolunteer.
Then you have people who arealso physically and mentally not
able to serve in the army.
Then you have people who arealso physically and mentally not
able to serve in the armybecause the basic requirement
that you have, that you have tobe able to use um, you know a
weapon and be able to guard abase.
So, even if you're not activelyusing it, every person gets
training to actually know how touse it.
So if, for example, you, godforbid, have epilepsy and then

(26:11):
you you can't hold a weapon inthat, so you're going to be
exempt from doing the army.
Another last group is peoplewho are religious.

So this is politically yes, this is what I
wanted to touch on.
There's a big I feel like inthe past two years I've kind of
been following a lot of Israelinews.
I know a decent amount aboutthe politics.
I know this is a big source ofconflict in the country.

So this is specifically for ultra-Orthodox
men, that they are studyingTorah and then not going to
serve in the army.
And then you have religiouswomen who can just say I'm a
religious woman, then they don'tserve.
However, it's become commonthat they do national service
instead.
So most people are okay withthat, because if you're going
instead to work in an orphanageand with you know, at-risk youth

(26:58):
or at a hospital or stuff likethat, then people are, you know,
more accepted and okay withthat.
I will say that I originallythought I was going to do
national service because I had adream that I wanted to be a
national service girl who wouldinspire, you know, a Jewish
community in America, the sameway that I was inspired by two

(27:19):
women who came from Israel whenI was still in Maryland, I
decided to join the army becauseI was inspired by somebody else
who this is actually a greatstory that she was not
technically, halakhically Jewish, meaning her dad wasish and her
mom was muslim and she said, um, I can't wait to go serve in

(27:41):
the army.
I'm super zionist, I'm superisraeli, but I'm not recognized
or seen as jewish.
And I said, wow, she is sopassionate, excited to be in the
army.
I have no reason that I do notwant that.
I shouldn't be going to thearmy, rather than I just wanted
to do something.
So it's like that minute Iheard her, I said I be going to
the Army rather than I justwanted to do something.
So it was like that minute Iheard her, I said I'm going into
the Army and that was it.
So when other people weredebating and you know, should I

(28:02):
do National Service or Army orwhatever, I was like this is
what I'm doing, that's it.
And so the process is uniquebecause you do two tests,
basically, and you get scores.
Those scores determine whatpositions are open for you.
Basically, test basically andyou get scores.
Those scores determine whatpositions are open for you,
basically, and I got literally atext saying that you know, here
are some on this day there's,you know, tests or whatever for

(28:24):
the spokesperson's unit andyou're welcome to come.
So I said, okay, let's go forit, and I passed the one test
and then two interviews.
I'll just say that there's astigma regarding the
spokesperson's unit that youhave to have connections in
order to get in.
So I had been asked up untilthis day who do I know and what

(28:44):
connections did I have?
And I was like none.
I didn't know anyone in theArmy.
On my own merit and I'll saythat I think it changed, that it
used to be more exclusive andthen they very much opened it up
so that it was completelymarried.
I know a lot of people whoreally didn't have connections,
who were serving alongside withme, and then the specific

(29:08):
position I got was justdependent on availability within
the unit, and I worked withNorth American media, so that
means it means a classic, youknow media, sometimes a
newspaper, radio, tv, not notinternet or not like random
blogs and stuff like that, butreally like a classic media, and

(29:31):
then the reporters who wereusually in Israel.
That's what we would work with,because you can't just call up
an IDF officer and ask for abrief or a question.
You have to go through thespokesperson's unit to either
again ask, answer your questionsabout whatever happened or, um,
to like to go to a drill or goto a base or speak to somebody
or get information.

(29:52):
So, um, the idea or the goalwas to be somebody who's to
actually be making sure that theIDF's message was going,
getting out there and initiatingideas to the reporters that
were also relevant andinteresting and that they would
be had.
Take, you know, using ourmessage in that case, rather
than writing.

(30:15):
Writing on their own and perhapsnot being the most positive
thing about israel, which Ithink many people can uh agree
is happening a lot recently, butyou know it's.
We do the job.
You know.
An idea is to prep and provideinformation to the reporters and
have personal relationships sothat when a war does break out,

(30:36):
you know they have theinformation.
But at the same time, when awar does break out, these
outlets often send reporters whoare not usually here.
So those relationships that youhave built and worked on and
whatever, sometimes are not asrelevant anymore because they
brought, you know, a more knownperson to be here covering the
war.
So then that changes things andon one hand it's cool to be

(30:57):
able to work with them.
The other hand, you don'talways get the best coverage for
.

Israel.
I think that's part of theproblem that's been going on
since October is that people whodon't know what they're talking
about or don't have any contextof thousands of years of
history and they're just kind ofinserting their personal
beliefs on everything.
But I like that that type of uhunit exists.
How old were you when you, whenyou started this?

oh, sorry, I shouldn't say what age.
Um, so you have to be minimum18.
Uh, so, depending when you wereborn, during the year,
sometimes you really, or somepeople, a lot of people do a
preparatory year as well.
Um, so it has to be minimum 18.
But people draft also olderthan that for sure, especially
like people who made Aliyah andmoved to Israel.

(31:42):
So they'll draft in later on intheir life.
I was a little over 18.
So I finished when I was alittle over 20.
So women go in for two years.
Men used to go in for threeyears.
It has been short to two yearsand eight months.
It's supposed to be that forboth men and women it is two

(32:03):
years and eight months.
I don't know why they haven'textended it for women to be
additional eight months.
It's easier to cut those fourmonths for men, but they haven't
extended it for women.
So it's two years and then twoyears and eight months.

And then usually people if they want to go to
college after serving in the IDF.

I'm the odd person out who goes to
university college rightafterward.
People usually do the trip,they work, they take their time
and then they start university.
But I'll say that that's whatmakes people first of all.
It's three years here, not four, and people are much more
focused when they do startcollege.
So I knew immediately I'm doinginternational relations and

(32:46):
Jewish history and that was mydegree was in that.
So those three years that Istudied, that's what I learned.
So it's not.
You know, I'm learning a littlebit of everything and then I'm
going to choose my major.

It's.
These are the subjects I amlearning.
I like coming back as an olderstudent I think as an older
student myself, back in schoolyou do appreciate it more and
you're more grounded At America.
It's such a thing that youstart college immediately after
high school and I think a lot ofchildren are unprepared and
they don't know how to kind oftake care of themselves or
motivate themselves without aparental figure, and I think

(33:19):
it's not always the best thingbut, I know a gap year is common
in other countries.
That's not really a thing thatAmericans do, which I think I
wish they did.
I'll probably encourage mydaughter to be like take a gap
year, work, go, go on a vacation, I think come to there's great
programs yeah there's programs.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so you werealso.
I read that you were a tourguide at the Knesset.

(33:41):
Was this through the IDF or wasthis something separate?

So it was a student job actually.
So there are various studentjobs in Israel in general and
the idea is to really help you,you know, push your career, you
know, while you're a student.
At the same time, you don't youknow how to do.
You do shifts, you do limitedhours that will fit your student

(34:07):
schedule.
So I gave tours in English inthe Knesset.
So it will be a huge variety ofgroups.
It could be, you know, varietyof groups.
It could be you know people whoare getting a private tour,
just random people who come andwant a tour in English
throughout the Knesset a guestof someone you know.
I've met very, you know, coolpeople and groups through the

(34:29):
year that I was working there.

So we're going to continue talking about education
a little bit.
So you are an educated,observant Jewish woman and I
know within certaindenominations this is something
that is not encouraged, to thepoint of even being frowned upon
.
Why do you think it isimportant for women who are
observant to be educated and thebenefits of that?

of that.
So I am very much somebody whobelieves, you know, that
knowledge is power and I thinkthat the more we look at the
sources and the more we know,the more meaning we will find in
everything that we do and alsohave the agency and the

(35:12):
ownership to ask questions.
Agency and the ownership to askquestions Because, at the end
of the day, you know, when I wasstudying to be a Kala teacher
which means teaching familypurity the teacher said a
beautiful thing is that you knowwe are able to change.
You know what is normal andeven like Jewish law
specifically, if we ask thequestions and present, you know

(35:35):
the different facts andsituations that we are put into.
So, yes, we might not be theauthority in various things, but
also we are becoming anauthority.
We are asking the questions,presenting the situation,
knowing the Jewish law in ofitself to actually bring a
change.
So I think you know, the morewe know, the more we can be

(35:56):
involved and actively be awareof what Judaism actually is.

So let's kind of jump into your adult life.
One of the things you offer isservices as a conversion
consultant.
What exactly does that mean?

Okay.
So I'll say that I noticed thatwhen I was speaking to a lot of
people through my Instagrampage that people didn't realize
what is the process of anorthodox conversion.
And I'll just say and we mightbe going into this generally
soon but for an orthodoxconversion you need a sponsor

(36:31):
rabbi, and need to have a bigdean, a rabbinic council that is
near you.
So sometimes people didn't evenknow that they were studying
for years, reading books andlearning and starting to
practice various Jewishpractices.
And I would tell them I mean,that's great, it's good that you
are practicing and doing thosethings, but you know, being a

(36:53):
part of Judaism is actuallybeing in a community, immersing,
connecting to the, to the rabbiand everything.
So if you don't have that nearyou, one you have to consider if
conversion is for you and two,you might have to move um or,
you know, look into that and seewhat makes sense for you or the
various options and paths.
Uh, so that is what a consultantmeans, that just giving all

(37:16):
that information and sharing theoptions.
So here I'll just give anexample.
Also sorry that sometimes womenspeak to me who are really
interested in immersing furtherin their Jewish journey.
However, their spouse is not so, or they're not Jewish, or they

(37:38):
are and just not observant.
So then we talk through whatthe options could be and it
really depends on people'spersonal situation, their
preference, what even they'repracticing now.
Sometimes people have a certainvision and not necessarily know
what is required.
So that's where the consult andconsultation comes in is really

(38:00):
matching up the reality and thesituation and the background to
the particular person.

You mentioned Orthodox conversion.
How does conversion differwithin different types of
Judaism?
Because I know you can convertthrough my synagogue, which is
Reform.
You can convert through aconservative synagogue, which is
reform.
You can convert through aconservative synagogue.
So how?
What is that?
What is the differentiationbetween that?

So I'll first and foremost say that a
big difference is is you knowwho will recognize it.
And an Orthodox conversion willbe recognized by all
denominations, whereasconservative will often
recognize reform, but sometimesnot.
Anyways, the reformerrecognizes everything.

(38:41):
Conservative will sometimesrecognize reform, orthodoxy will
only recognize orthodox.
Anyways, because we'recomplicated about who will
recognize what that's one andthen the other is just what the
process is and what theexpectations are.
So, excuse me, reform Judaismdoesn't necessarily follow

(39:01):
Jewish law, meaning that thereisn't that obligation.
You have to do things, thethings are offered as choice.
So you can keep Shabbat, youcan keep kosher, and we'll teach
you what that looks like, butthere's no obligation there in
the same way that there is forconservative and orthodoxy.
So that's one.
In conservative Judaism there'salso the concept of equal

(39:22):
obligation, that both men andwomen are obligated, and that
means that that's why a womancan be a rabbi, a woman can lead
services, etc.
In orthodoxy the Jewish law isis very much like you have to do
this and this is, you have toobserve this and therefore, and
also that way the the processlooks different.

(39:44):
So so for reform andconservative um, you do it
through the synagogue and theparticular rabbi.
So when you're doing aconservative or reform
conversion, like you, you'redoing it through your synagogue
or a synagogue, whereas inorthodoxy you can have a sponsor
rabbi.
You can go to a different shuland the bet din could be in a

(40:04):
different city, but you justhave to put that all together.
So meaning you have to find asponsor rabbi who's saying I am
vouching for you, I am theperson who will be with you when
you go to the bet din for you,I am the person who will be with
you when you go to the bed inand in earth.
And in Orthodox conversion youhave usually three clear, set
meetings that will take youthroughout the year and a

(40:26):
certain curriculum that is thatyou're supposed to be doing
before each meeting and it is aprocess you're not expected to
like keep kosher immediately,but at a certain point you are
supposed to.
Are you really immersing in acommunity?
But the end of the day I thinkI mentioned this before um, the
betin are the one who sign youruh conversion um certificate, uh

(40:46):
, even though most of the timeand most of your meaningful
interactions will be with thecommunity and with the sponsor
rabbi.
So even though you meet therabbis only three times, the
other ones who really areimportant for the process, and
with the sponsor rabbi.
So even though you meet therabbis only three times, they're
the ones who really areimportant for the process and
for the official conversionitself.
I also want to say that inconservative and reform usually
it is an entire year and therewill be some sort of meeting at

(41:09):
the end of three rabbis, butit's usually the rabbis of the
synagogue and people who theyknow, and at the end of all the
processes you'll immerse in themikveh.
And for men in conservative andorthodox I am not sure about
reform though, so maybe you cantell me men will be required to
do a circumcision also.

I think yes, and if they're already circumcised,
they do like a representationalceremony.
Yeah, don't quote me on that,but I'm pretty sure that's part
of the process for reform aswell.

Okay.
So I wasn't sure, because Iknow sometimes I have heard that
they don't always immerse in amikveh if it's not, if there's
no body of water nearby orsomething of the sort, that's so
interesting we have.

I Googled mikvah the other night I was like how
many are in my neighborhood?
There's like five within likeyou know, like a five mile
radius.
So it's so interesting, Likepossibly I mean it exists,
obviously being in a communitywhere there isn't a mikvah,
because I'm from Los Angeles, Ilive in New York, Very you know
Jewish and very large Orthodoxpopulation, so they're not being

(42:17):
a mikveh.
But you can also like, forexample, like you could, you
could go to the ocean orsomething like that.
Is that correct as well?

Yeah, you could, but if you were in an
area that didn't, you weren'tnear a body of water and you
didn't have a mikveh.
So yeah, it's difficult.
I am the conservative rabbi whoI used to work, like I worked
with as an israeli emissary, um,he said sometimes they use a
swimming pool and that those areconversions that conservative
movement will not accept if theyimmerse in a swimming pool that

(42:48):
seems more like a baptism thana, than a mikvah like I mean yes
, but he said that.
He said that it exists and it'shappened before.

So that's very weird.

Yeah, I know, that's what I thought too,
and I've met a lot of peoplewho convert, reform and go to a
mikveh, but it does exist.
So that's why it's important tobe aware of what each person's
personal story is, because itreally can affect the trajectory
of what you can do in theJewish world.

So, speaking of personal stories, let's kind of
jump into your relationship withyour husband, because this is
one of the things that initially, like your videos were popping
up and I was like, oh, this is areally interesting story.
So how did you meet yourhusband?

So my husband now my husband at the
time obviously wasn't, his nameis John so he was on a trip with
his college, depaul, to Israel,and it was a trip that was more
political.
The idea was to learn about theIsrael-Palestinian conflict and
I was the Israel side, I was anIsraeli student on a panel, and

(43:49):
we met for I think it was threehours and then a few months
later, I was heading to Americafor the first time after 14
years, since we made Aliyah, andI was going to Maryland,
obviously because that's whereI'm from, and at that time I was
going to be.
There was the AIPAC conference,so he was going there as well
because he learned about theJewish world and how they love,

(44:11):
you know, non-jews to beinvolved in various things.
So he basically was able to geta ticket for free as a student
who was also not Jewish, and theJewish world and how they love,
you know, non-jews to beinvolved in various things.
So he basically was able to geta ticket for free as a student
who was also not Jewish and wasinterested in going, and I had a
friend who worked at AIPAC andtherefore also was able to get a
ticket for free.
And then we met there andthat's kind of when we started
speaking with each other, andagain, when we were speaking to

(44:32):
each other was in israel and hewas in america.

So that's a long distance.

Speaking to each other exactly so also like
people are like how did youstart talking to him?
Because I was like why would Ithink I would develop feelings
for somebody when he's anywayson the other side of the world?

like yeah, he's completely different side of the
the time zones are crazy.
So for those that don't knowwhat it is, can you explain what
APEC is?
Oh, they're in the news rightnow because there is a
congresswoman who was the.
I don't know if you know aboutthe squad.
Have you heard about the squad?

yeah, are you talking about Cori Bush?
Is that what you're talkingabout?

yes, so she was like yesterday.
She was like I'm gonna getvengeance.
And I was like you couldn'teven get re-elected, how are you
going to get vengeance?
And she was like veryanti-semitic.
But like for those, for thoselistening who don't know what
apac is, can you just for amoment explain what apac is?

um, I want to say it's the um I think it's
american israel like alliance,yeah, um, and I'll just say that
it is an organization thatbasically lobbies for Israel.
So their primary role is toreach out to the congressmen and
go to Capitol Hill and helpwith legislation to promote

(45:45):
Israel.
So obviously a lot of peoplewho are involved are Jewish, but
not necessarily meaning anyperson who is pro-Israel can be
a part of AIPAC and active, andthat's the idea is really
supporting Israel and helpingwith the legislation for that.

So you talked about this being a very long
distance relationship of anykind.
How did this relationship start?
Because you're on differentsides of the world.
He's not Jewish.
You obviously didn't see anysort of romantic connection
happening because of that.
So how did that progress?

So we were basically talking and talking I
mean, you know, texting andwhatever and I'll say this is my
personality, that I connectwith people and I continue
talking to them.
I'm in touch with my childhoodfriend and we speak, you know,
once a month, because that'swhat I do.
So I did it not thinking, youknow, something would happen or
anything, and then, for whateverreason, john decided he was

(46:36):
interested and continued topursue.
I will say that today he doesnot answer my texts I'm joking.
Neither does my husband.
I am exaggerating, he's goingto be like I answered the phone,
but I mean he would like,really, you know, text and
respond and whatever.
And it's just hilarious, youknow, looking back at that now,

(46:57):
so it started from just, youknow, whatsapp messages or
Facebook messages, and we juststarted going to every possible
platform you know Snapchat andwatching movies together and
everything.
And all of a sudden I was like,ooh, I think I have feelings
for this person.
Uh, we were planning a tripthat I was going to come visit
him in August and I and I justsaid I can't visit him because I

(47:18):
have feelings and or the orthat I have to say you know we
are, we are going to start arelationship, but he needs to be
aware that conversion isinvolved, or that I have to say
goodbye to this person because Ican't continue pursuing this,
because my Jewish values andJewish lifestyle is important to
me.
So I had a conversation.

(47:40):
It was May 26, 2018.

Oh, we remember the date yeah.

And I told him just that, and I told him
that he would have to convertand I was obviously very nervous
and awkward, whatever, becausehow do you say that to somebody?
And his response was I know.
So Wow, I was shocked.
But you know, I just clearlyspeak about Judaism all the time
and share my passion andwhatever that he caught on and

(48:09):
even Google beforehand what itwould entail.
And luckily, speaking talkingabout before the spokesperson's
unit, a friend who served withme was from the community in
Chicago where John was that'swhere DePaul is located and he
connected us to the person whobasically became his sponsor,
rabbi, and literally thefollowing day he emailed him and

(48:31):
he pretty much had a verysmooth conversion story, which
is why it took me a while torealize that we were very lucky
that his conversion was sosmooth, but he was very blessed
with a community and a rabbi andthat the head of the Bedin went
to the synagogue that he wentto and saw him on a weekly basis
there.
So just the stars aligned andthings worked out very well.

(48:55):
But that's kind of how therelationship started, whereas,
like, I told him flat out thatthe conversion process would
need to be a part of it and ourrelationship starting coincided
with his conversion process, sowe knew that at the end of it
we're getting married.
So there was like a very weirdfeeling of speaking to somebody
for two months and knowing thatI'm marrying him.

(49:16):
But it was mutual.
We felt the same way.
But I always tell peoplebecause of that there are no
rules in relationships.

So you know, know, if you both agree on it and you
both feel it, then you knowgreat I'm a big believer in the
idea of the shared, and you knowthat everything, even the
things that have been happeningin my life recently, that are
very difficult, happen for areason yeah so I mean, I think
there, I think a month, that Iknow I was gonna marry my
husband.
I said to my roommate I calledher mate and she looked at me
and was like I want to marry him.
So I think sometimes you justknow.

(49:44):
And there's a really beautifulstory about my grandparents who
were married for almost 50 years.
They met when my grandmotherwas 15 and got married when she
was 17 before she shipped out toWorld War II.
It was like crazy.
So she, you know, it was theGreat Depression, she was
looking for a job and she hadher two younger siblings with
her.
And she's this 15-year-old andwalks into this soda shop where

(50:06):
my grandfather was workingbecause it belonged to his uncle
, and she met him and she walkedout and was like I'm going to
marry that man.
And my great uncle told thisstory at my grandfather's
funeral and he started crying.
He's like, and she did Likethey just knew Wow.

Like, they just knew like.

And their, their.
Their headstone literally saysoh, one in a million love affair
.
Like I, am a big believer inthat.
God has a way of bringingpeople together who need each
other.

Yeah.

So I love hearing stories about other people who
found each other in situationsthat, like there, probably
should not have happened, likeI'll add that he is from
Northern Michigan, whichTraverse City nobody knows where
that is I worked with somebody.
I was thinking of this when Iwas showering today, that I
worked with somebody in my early20s from Traverse City.
So when you were like goingTraverse City, I was like that

(50:51):
is the middle of nowhere, that'swhat.

I say, but that's because you're from LA
and New York, by the way.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
Yeah.

John is like this is it is actually a
city and they have everythingthere.
It's not completely rural, butwhen I'm there I feel that it is
because I'm very much a citygirl.
But if you told him or hisparents that he would meet a
girl from Jerusalem and marryher and convert to Orthodox
Judaism, they would be like whatare you talking about?

So it's not even from Chicago.
Had he met anyone?
Had he?
Actually?
I guess, if he went to schoolin chicago, had he grown up with
anyone who was jewish inmichigan.
So there's.

He remembers one time that a girl
you know brought dreidels toschool like around around
christmas time to like share hertraditions, but not really.
The interesting thing, though,is that they read um, they did
read night by ellie weasel andthe Diary of Anne Frank, and he
also read this book that wasabout.
I think it's called the Chosenor something.

Yes, yes, yes, yes , yes.

An Orthodox person.

Yes, there's a movie with Robbie Benson.
It's like a very 80s movie.
It's actually pretty good.
It's about like someone who Iguess you would say was modern
Orthodox and he makes friendswith someone who's Hasidic and
kind of their differences, andthe guy who's Hasidic ends up
spoiler alert um ends up leavingthe Hasidic community.

(52:12):
It's a really beautiful storyabout a relationship between two
friends if you have.
I know I just spoiled it, butlike it's a good book, I feel
like it was given to me for likea Passover gift when I was like
11 or something, because that'swhat my great aunt did is out,
so he was like very confusedwith that whole book, because I
feel like you have to understandthose communities in order to
really understand what's goingon here.

And he was like I you know, went over his
head completely.
So he did read that, but, um,you know that the trip to Israel
really start, really changed itfor him, because then he read
books about, he read the six-daywar by michael oran and he just
really started connecting to umthe history, and then it was
pretty much smooth into thereligion as well, because he was

(52:53):
searching for religion too anddidn't really connect himself.
His own family was, was, um,they're christian, but they
never went to church, reallydidn't observe much, really
weren't religious.
So his desire of connecting toreligion just happened to find
itself in Judaism rather thanhis own, but it matched up for

(53:16):
him specifically, it made sense.
So it all worked together.
Let's put it that way.

I've talked to quite a few converts, including
one of our cantors, and he wasalways like, yeah, just always
like I had a Jewish soul.
I just wasn't born into aJewish family, and I think
that's a beautiful way ofthinking of it is that you
always felt a connection to this, but it took a couple steps to
kind of get you to where youneeded to be Exactly so.
Speaking of your in-laws, Iknow you just took a big trip to

(53:42):
America to visit them inMichigan and, as you said,
they're not Jewish, so thepreparation for that you shared
a little bit of this onInstagram must have been insane,
because they don't keep kosher.
They don't have a kosherkitchen, you know they don't.
They're not Shabbat observant,so can you talk a little bit
about the prep that went intothat, as well as kind of the
changes that had to be made inthe household on Shabbat?

(54:05):
I don't think there were anyholidays during that time, were
they?

No, we purposely don't go when they're
supposed to be a holiday,because yeah, you need to go to
shul.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean again, we don't have to, but
ideally we would be in acommunity.
It's just, it's very hard toobserve specific things when you
don't have any Jewish communityaround you.
And specifically there's theconcept of you know, which
actually doesn't matter inholidays, but you cannot leave
your like private domain.
You need a string around thecity or area you live so you can

(54:35):
go.
So it's a larger private domain.
You can carry things withinthat domain yes, Patrick.

How much does New York spend to keep the string
active?
Yeah, New York city spendsabout $200,000 to take care of
that string.
We have a lot of.

At one point we thought it was like a
million dollars but we looked itup, but it's, it's mostly
maintained by by.

Orthodox schoolsuls and different
communities will donate money tothe church.
Yeah, yeah, I don't know if youwatched Unorthodox, but the big
part of that in the beginningis the string was down so she
couldn't carry anything and Iwas like what is this?
And I started deep diving intoit because I don't know.

(55:23):
Like, just like side note, likea lot of the modern orthodox
people in our building, it's sointeresting because we live in a
17 story building.
Okay, and they will get in theelevator but they won't push the
button.
Yeah, and they'll ask me to pushthe button and I tell them I
can't do it because I'm jewishoh, and then they'll have like,
and if they look at me like, howdo you know that I was like,

(55:45):
because I just because I'm notvery observant doesn't mean I'm
not knowledgeable, you know, andI don't want to be like and
you're not supposed to ask andyou're not supposed to.
So it's just interesting, kindof like talked about like the
personal choice, that thingsthat people yeah, I mean.

I was going to say.
I thought, like in Israel youhave an elevator that has a
Shabbat mode that you can go.

Yeah, there are Shabbat elevators in some
buildings.
Yeah, you don't need to pressit.
Yeah, there are some.
There are some buildings thathave Shabbat elevators.
There are hospitals andbuildings that will have Shabbat
doors.
Our building has a door, wehave a sliding door, we also
have one you can open, but theelevator is not not a Shabbat
elevator.

Okay, so, yes, so speaking, speaking of
the yes, talking about the$200,000 string.
So, going back to my in-laws, toprep to your Michigan trip so
I'll say that um, I think and Itry to explain this to people I
think it's all about respect andjust awareness and knowledge.
So we've gone there for already, for a few years, and we have
our own dishes.
So our own dishes are alreadywaiting for us, so we don't need

(56:45):
to do like a whole, likecosturing of huge pots and pans,
whatever, and there's a lakeright nearby lake michigan, so
we can just buy a new dish andput it in the lake and it's
kosher um can you explain whyyou have to do that for my
listeners, why you have to putwhat immerse dishes you don't?
have to do it with every dish.
Like a plastic, you don't needto.
But if it is, I want to say um,ceramic, um, metal and glass,

(57:10):
and I have to check again.
I I might be incorrect, butdefinitely not plastic.
So if you buy like a, you knowa plastic spatula, you don't
have to do it.
Um, but let's say you buy abowl, you know a ceramic bowl.
The idea of what it is is thatit's like an old tradition that

(57:31):
we still keep today, that itused to be that dishes were made
and used for idol worshipingand therefore you immerse them
to, you know, clean them.
So it's obviously a symbolicthing, it's a spiritual thing
that we still keep today, eventhough you know it's made in a
factory.
Nobody intended it for idolworshiping, but it's just before
usage.
You immerse it.
That's also a reason why somepeople will not do that today,

(57:52):
just because they look into thereasoning and they're like
there's no need to do this today, but it's still, you know,
custom and very common to dothat, and often, if you buy a
dish in a Jewish store, it hasalready been immersed, so you
don't have to do it yourself.

I did not know that.

Interesting .
Yeah, so it'll say it on thelabel that's already been
toveled.
That's the Hebrew word with theAmerican accent added to it.
So we have dishes and then wejust have an agreement regarding
how do we use the appliances inthe house.
So my mother-in-law actuallykashers the oven before we

(58:31):
arrive and they don't use theoven throughout our time there.
And if they do use it, thenthey'll make something that's
kosher.
So you know whether it's avegetable or you know, whatever
you're cooking it's kosher andthey can eat it, obviously, but
they just have to use our dishesand the food itself is kosher

(58:51):
and we divide the burners.
So we have two burners that areours and two burners that are
theirs, and then the microwavewe double wrap.
So the microwave is theirs andwe just like double wrap with
plastic, and then you can use itand heat it, which is, by the
way, that's why plain food iswrapped a million times, because
they're using the same heatingspace that also the non-kosher
food is in, but they just wrapit a bunch of times.

(59:11):
In that way it's insulated andquote-unquote protected, so it
won't.
You know, it's still kosher and,in addition, you know we ship.
This is a big thing that wehave to ship kosher meat and
hard cheeses.
I saw that, yeah, so there's noplace to buy like meat, chicken
, fish, I'll add.

(59:32):
If there is a Trader Joe's nearwhere you live, you most likely
have kosher meat, chicken andfish in the Trader Joe's.
We don't have that in TraverseCity so we have to, you know,
order that in advance and butotherwise, like in the big store
Meijer, they have Ketam grapejuice and they have a bunch of

(59:52):
Israeli items.
They even have Bamba there.
You know, I don't know why theyhave it.
There's not that many peoplewho are interested, but they do
have it and that's been alwaysvery, very helpful for us.
And most items in america,thank god, are kosher.
So it's not like many countriesin europe that you really are
limited with the food itselfthat you can buy yeah, traveling

(01:00:13):
while you keep kosher I.

Nicole Kelly (01:00:15):
There's a lot of tips and things that I've seen.
I can't imagine how difficultthat must be in certain
countries, like I can't imaginetrying to go to Italy and keep
kosher.

Netta Asner-Minster (01:00:24):
Oh, I mean from the point of view that
you're missing out maybe, well,not missing out, just like where
would you eat?

and like the logistics of that, though like a
place like traveling to NewYork.
There's like a lot of kosherrestaurants.
Right, right, so it's notdifficult, but if you're going,
you know a little bit of achallenge.

I mean, yeah, if you're cooking from a
house you also take into accountthat you have to take time to
kosher.
So that means the first 24hours you're not able to touch
the appliances.
You have to clean them firstand wait, and only then you can
kosher.
So it is a process, but I'msaying laws respect it and they

(01:01:00):
are aware about it, and thenthat way, um, you know they are,
they basically prepare for usas well it's a lot of planning I
feel like all that planning ontop of two children like a lot.

So let's kind of jump into your social media
presence.
What inspired you to start yourinstagram page and use it as a
way to educate people aboutJudaism?

So basically my Instagram page was
a COVID project.
Some people did sourdough, somepeople did challah I did
challah as well, but basicallymy Instagram page was a COVID
project and originally I wantedto share about exactly what I
spoke about in the previousquestion, which was, you know,

(01:01:48):
the unique situations and thingswe run into being that John
converted to Judaism and with myin-laws and not being Jewish,
but that we're very, very closeto them and that they're
completely a part of our livesand we love them very much and
we're doing our best to, youknow, live, like to, to make, to
do visits and actually, youknow, spend time together

(01:02:08):
properly, um, so that was theoriginal idea of it and then it
became, uh, just Jewisheducation in general, and that
also, it was my platform and notwith John, because, um, he was
not interested in social mediawhatsoever.
He does things with me and heallows me to film him, which I
very much appreciate, but he'snot actively doing it.

(01:02:30):
It was only a year later thatsomebody reached out to me who
is still my student today.
She actually made aliyah sinceI started teaching her.
She reached out to me toactually learn Hebrew and I was
wait, people want to learn withme and you know I can actually
maybe make, make a little bit ofmoney off of this too that I'm,
I'm, I'm, have students andwhatever.

(01:02:52):
So I, when I had my, my firstdaughter she was two and a half
now I had three students and nowI, you know, I gave birth again
, you know, about four and ahalf months ago.
So I have about, you know, 12regular students and since then
I've had people who start,finish, I've had multiple
consultations, spoke to over 120people who have had done

(01:03:14):
consultations for.
So it really has become, youknow, a whole little side
business and side gig that.
But I didn't imagine that itwould be that.
I thought it would be just likeme sharing about my life and
maybe, you know, I would get aproduct here and there or I
would sponsor somebody, whatnotI don't know.
But it became, you know, anopportunity to really touch

(01:03:36):
people's lives personally in abeautiful way that I never
thought that I would be able todo when I started it out.

What I like about your page is that there's a
variety of different questionsanswered.
Like you talked aboutcircumcising children if they
pass away before their breasts.
You talk about, you know,shipping meat to Michigan.
It's not just.
This is my life, and here I'mwearing, this is my dress and a
lot of observant Jewishinfluencers.
I feel like it's a lot of that.

Speaker 3 (01:04:01):
And I like the area.

I think we know who I'm talking about.
I think I actually thought of afew people, so my husband's
giving me a face, but I, but Iyou know, and that you do come
with a Jewish educationbackground.
You have your master's, correct?

you finished a little bit ago yeah,
it's actually, it's not funny,it's it's whatever.
But, um, I finished rightbefore sukkot that was my that's
when I handed in my lastproject, simchat.
Torah of last year was when thewar started.
So I was like, wow, I finishedthis degree in time, literally

(01:04:39):
because because if I, I wouldn'tbe able to, first of all would
have been delayed and also Iwouldn't have been able to to
like be in the mindset of doingthat yeah, of course.
So that's when I finished mymaster's in Jewish education.

Yeah, Congratulations on that I'm
hoping to embark on that journeynext year.
I'm applying to grad schoolthis month.

So for what though?

For I always laugh .
I'm going to spend the rest ofmy life laughing For Holocaust
and genocide studies.
I think it's very important.

I think it's incredibly important and
you know people who go on thosetrips.
They talk about how extremelymeaningful it is to actually see
it and walk in these places, etcetera.
So learning about it andsharing it is incredible.

It was also really surprising because there's
something like my husband saidto me I'll never forget Like we
went to Auschwitz and we had aprivate tour guide.
And you know we're walkingPoland I don't know if you've
been to Poland, poland is verybeautiful.
So I you know we're in themiddle of this, like we're in
Auschwitz, but it's in themiddle of this beautiful forest.
And my husband's like I finallyunderstand, having come from

(01:05:44):
these ghettos where people arestarving and they haven't bathed
, and they're in this beautifulforest and they're telling them
that they're going to shower andthat everything's going to be
OK.
He's like I understand why theywould have believed this.
Yeah, so like there's a lot ofthings that I think we have
questions about in regard to theHolocaust and the camps.
That being there answers a lotof those questions, because you
can study this, you can watchall the documentaries.

(01:06:04):
But like having being able tosay, like I was there, I saw
that I think it's so meaningfuland I am.
I tell all my guests on myregular visit like go to Poland.
First of all, it's very cheap.
There's a lot of history.
If you're interested in theWorld War II and you know I don

(01:06:30):
is like the numbers are sominuscule compared to other.
I guess, like I hate using theword attraction for a
concentration camp, but like asite, a historical site, yeah,
so that's what I'm trying to do,but, um, good luck.
Hopefully, hopefully, make thatwork anyways.
So, going back to social media,yeah, um, a lot of influencers
have talked about how they dealwith anti-Semitism on a regular
basis, and even I I don't.

(01:06:50):
I have like less than 500followers I.
This is why I'm not on TikTok,because I feel like I posted a
TikTok video and got delugedwith a bunch of hatred, so I was
like we're not going to do that.
How do you deal with that?

So, first of all, I'm very blessed that I
don't get it constantly comparedto other people.
But once a post becomes, youknow, relatively viral, that
it's reaching, you know, over Idon't know, let's say, 20,000
views, because it happenswhatever with posts.
So I will not look at thecomments anymore, I just don't.

(01:07:25):
I have a post that thatrecently went like very viral,
like over three million people,and oh, wow and literally I saw
today a comment saying these.
The comments here are absolutelydisgusting.
It was about it was about mymother mixing a spoon and in
like a non-kosher pot, and likeI wrote in the caption that we

(01:07:45):
ate the pasta in the end andwhatever.
But people were talking aboutlike genocide, bombing children,
you know, completely unrelatedto anything in the context of
the post.
And again, like somebody wroteliterally today that it's very
obvious that the people who havebeen commenting are the problem
and not me, because I didn'teven mention, you know, anything
of the sort in my video.

So, yeah, they make those connections.
I was, I was started a a seriesof videos I want to continue
about pogroms going like way,way, way back and they started
talking about Gaza and I'm likethis is not at all relevant to
this and I feel like that's why,when people say it's not about
anti-Semitism, I think they'relying, because they always find
a way to come back to it, evenwhen you're talking about
spaghetti.

(01:08:27):
Like it's crazy to me.

It's just the fact that I'm Jewish and
it's completely unrelated and soI just want to ignore it
because I know that's going tohappen.
It's going to like fill my pagebut at the same time, sorry to
it's engagement.
So it keeps pushing the videoand it will also reach good,
good people who will comment,like the comment I saw today,

(01:08:50):
but also reach additional peoplewho might follow me because
they're interested in my content.
So I leave it and also I dowant people to see the horrible
comments you know, like.
This is what this is reality,this is what's happening, uh,
and also I do report and blockpeople if they're actually
following me, which happenssometimes.
Uh, and I also really focus onthe positive that I'm very

(01:09:10):
blessed with people who you knoware interested in judaism and
are passionate and want to sharetheir support and respect and
everything, and and they peopledo write to me and reach out.
So the fact that I have thislike little niche of being the
conversion consultant I amblessed to hear people's stories
you know, about how they arewearing a Star of David for the
first time, or how they went tothe synagogue for the first time
, how they have questions aboutobserving this or that and the

(01:09:32):
other and they want to reach outto me just because that's how I
am on the platform and I thinkthat is something actually very
beautiful.
That's happened as a resultfrom October 7th and I'm really
honored that people will shareand also take it upon themselves
to do all these various things.
So I feel like I accentuate thepositive in order to help me

(01:09:53):
also with dealing with all theanti-Semitism.

What is your favorite part about helping
people explore their Judaism, Ifthrough conversion, through
people who are Jewish who wantto become more observant, what
is your favorite part about that?

I mean, what I like the most is the
consultation conversations Ihave with people about learning
a person's background, about whythey even got interested in
Judaism in the first place, andrecommending them like on their
first journey or like the firststeps for their journey, and
kind of, like you know, sendingthem off, because in Judaism we
don't proselytize.
So I never convince somebodywhat they should do.

(01:10:29):
I just say these are theoptions.
I mean, I think like I'll saysometimes.
Sometimes people ask me theysay what do you think makes the
most sense?
I said I can like it dependswhat you want.
If you want this, then thatmakes the most sense, whatever.
If you want this, then thatmakes the most sense, whatever.
But it's, it's.
It's sending them off on theirjourney for the various options
and then you know, half a year,eight months, nine months later,
getting an email that theyeither you know that they

(01:10:51):
started conversion or that theyfinished their conversion, all
of those things.
So it's it's being a part ofpeople's journeys that is so
powerful and meaningful.
And just that firstconversation where I send people
off on their journey and justlike I don't know what's going
to happen, like how are theygoing to take this what are they
going to do Is like that'ssomething that I really enjoy

(01:11:11):
and like guiding people on theirJewish journey.

What would be your advice to someone who's
interested in becoming moreobservant?
The first steps you know.
So they're already Jewish,they're interested, you know.
Maybe they heard something onthe podcast or something on your
video and they're interested inexploring becoming more
observant.
What would those first stepslook like for them?

So it's very hard for me to answer that
generally, because it reallydepends on the person and who
they are, where they're living,what their situation is, and
there's so many factors to takeinto consideration, like you
have kids or not, are youmarried or not, who are you
married to?
Where do you live?
Do you live in the middle ofnowhere or is there a synagogue
nearby?
All of these things reallyreally do matter.
You know somebody who wasobserving whatever they were

(01:11:50):
living.
They're living with theirparents, who aren't Jewish, so
that obviously also makes itmore difficult compared to
somebody who is living on theirown.
Okay, so I would say talk to me, because I think that each
person's story is different.
At the same time, what I wouldrecommend is find the local
synagogue and reach out to arabbi, because through that you

(01:12:12):
will also connect to a community, to services, to a class, and
it just gives you a connectionto additional people.
And I do always recommend thebook To Be a Jew by Rabbi Chaim
Donin.
And I do always recommend thebook To Be a Jew by Rabbi Chaim
Donin and it is Orthodox.
But I also have spoken to awide variety of people who don't
always do Orthodoxy, of course,but all have told me that it's

(01:12:37):
very helpful to just getting thefull picture of what Judaism
entails.
And then they can also say youknow what this isn't for me, or
I don't connect to this as much,and it just gives that you know
wide picture and justinformation so that from there
they can explore further of whatactually fits them.
So that would be the two thingsI guess I would recommend, or
three things Like so, talking tome, finding the synagogue and

(01:12:59):
reaching out to a rabbi, which Iknow sometimes can be very
difficult for people, it's like,wait, I just emailed the rabbi.
It's like, yes, you just emailedthe rabbi.
Then you email them again andthen you call, and then you also
might call their secretary aswell, because the rabbis don't
always answer and it's not you,it's them, and so that's like
that's.
Another recommendation is don'tbe afraid to send that

(01:13:23):
additional email or call and andstart reading so, yeah, so as I
mentioned, you are my firstguest who lives in Israel and I
want to talk for a second.

I know you're a little crunched for time.
What, what has changed in yourlife personally since October
7th?
I know I don't, you know wedon't have to make a statement
about the Jewish people orIsrael in general, but what has
changed for you personally sinceOctober 7th?

So I think that I am more cautious and
nervous.
You know, walking around I'mvery proud and, like John, will
always wear a kippah no matterwhere we are in the world.
But I am more nervous,especially with having two kids
now, and also say personallythat my brother-in-law got badly

(01:14:11):
injured as a soldier an IDFsoldier in the war.
He had to go through a doublelung transplant as a 23 year old
and his life is not going to beforever different.
Thank God he's on the mend.
We spent about with him twoweeks ago and he is completely
himself.
It's just everything that'slike physical, that he has to
gain weight, has to strengthen,et cetera.

(01:14:32):
But you know, it's just that'slike changed our lives forever.
You know, for three months hewas unconscious and he was
sedated and it was praying everyday with my sister who had to
spend her first year anniversaryof marriage when he was
unconscious, you know.
So that really like changed mylife and I'm never going to look

(01:14:56):
at the world or take anythingfor granted in the same way that
I had maybe beforehand.
And also I think it's justbeing very grateful for the idea
for our nation, for the people,for our safety and for our home
because, unfortunately, a lotof people you know we have 115
hostages in Gaza right now andyou know we pray for their

(01:15:18):
safety and we hope that they'llbe released soon, but that
unfortunately, we cannot takeeverything we have for granted
anymore, which is a sad thing tosay and it just makes me even
more have motivation to beJewish and proud and protect
ourselves, protect our family,protect our home and do whatever

(01:15:39):
we need to do.

Okay, well, I'm glad that your brother-in-law is
better.
I saw posts about that.

Thank you.

I can't imagine having gone through that, as you
know, his wife or sister-in-law, you know.
And what's interesting speakingabout the hostages is I feel
like my neighborhood is veryJewish, so there are posters
everywhere and I feel like, eventhough I'm not in Israel, where
it's very obvious and they'reall over, I feel like I know
these people and, you know, I'mexplaining to people who don't

(01:16:11):
live in my neighborhood thatthis has become such a part of
my life, even though I've nevereven been to Israel and I don't
know these people.
I feel like I know.

You have to come.

I know.
Well, the problem is is likeback in the day.
Back in the day I was an actorand I wanted to do birthright
but I kept booking shows andthen I got married and we moved
and we had no money.
But, yes, the the when thingscalm down a little bit.
We have a good family friendwho lives in Jerusalem with her
five kids and a husband.
They have like an in-law suitein the back, so I might utilize

(01:16:41):
that at some point.
Sweet in the back, so I might,oh great, utilize that at some
point.
Yeah, but yes, the idea is, andI guarantee if I get into this
graduate program I'm gonna haveto come to yad vashem and, uh,
do some research.

So okay, so it's a good excuse to come.
Let me know I will.

We'll have to get together yes, um, so we're gonna
wrap up, so I do thesequestions with all of my guests.
Um, they are short formquestions, like in the actor's
studio, which I don't know.
If you know what that is, butit was this television show
where this guy named JamesLipton would interview famous
actors and every episode he'dask the same questions.

Oh, okay.

But these are my Jewish versions of the questions
.

Cool.

So these don't need to be long answers.
So what is your favoriteYiddish word?
Shmutz, it's a good one.

What is your?

favorite Jewish holiday.
What profession other than yourown would you want to attempt?

Um, I think , being a reporter.

Hmm, yeah, all right, if heaven is real and God
is there to welcome you, whatwould you like to hear him say?

Like good job, you know.
Thank you for making the worlda better place.
Yeah, I hope that's what Iwould like to hear him say yes,
yes, yes.

Is there anything else we didn't cover that you
want to talk about, or somethingyou want to plug?

So, yes, I do have feel free to follow me
on Instagram.
Uh, I also have a.
Um, I have an ebook, romancePure Jewish Journey, which is on
a website called Payhip, so youcan find me next to Jewish
educator.
Um, and I, yeah, and I alsoteach and, uh, you're welcome to

(01:18:24):
.
You know, reach out to methrough Instagram as well about
learning Hebrew If you want tolearn about family purity,
anything Jewish related.

Great.
Well, thank you so much forjoining me.
This is Nicole Kelly and thishas been Shibru in the City.
Thank, you.

Speaker 3 (01:18:38):
Love from the soul is the answer that will give you
glory.
Love from the soul is theanswer that will give you glory.

(01:19:10):
Ahaba me'al shama'ah M'yalshubah she'katita ge'ula, oh, oh
, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh

(01:19:44):
, oh, oh.
So come on, take the dive.
Just open up your heart, findthat little spark.
Brother, sister, my fellow Jew,there's a love, a godly light
Shining inside you.
Yet, hine, hine, matto, uma,uma naim Shevet, achim, achim,
ashiru b'yachah here, here's thegood, or what, or what's nice.

(01:20:05):
Sit, brothers and sisters, sosing together.
Love from the soul is theanswer.
It's not a lie.
Love from the soul is theanswer.
It's not a lie.

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"Ahava אַהֲבָה" - An Interview with Netta Asner-Minster

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}"Ahava אַהֲבָה" - An Interview with Netta Asner-Minster