"Poppin' Bottles" - An Interview with Pam Wiznitzer - Shebrew in the City

Episode Transcript
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Hi, this Shebrew in the City.
I'm Nicole Kelly and today I'mtalking with Pam Wiznitzer, who

(00:47):
is a master mixologist andInstagram influencer.
She's laughing.
Hi, pam, how are you doingtoday?

Pam Wiznitzer (00:56):
I'm good.
How are you doing?

I'm good.
Like I said, I'm tired, butthat's kind of part of the
course.
I feel like that's just myanswer every day.
I'm always tired.
I think I was born tired.

That's completely fair, and it is a Monday
morning so you are allowed to betired.

It is, hanukkah is coming up.
I know we're going to bereleasing these all over the
place, but it is the Mondaybefore Hanukkah and we have lots
of events, so I'm sure that'spart of the reason I'm just
emotionally exhausted from that,yeah, absolutely.

It's a big week I got to get ready for those
eight crazy nights.

At least I know when it is.
My mom, I guess, googled whenHanukkah was and for some reason
didn't look at the year thatcame up and she thought it was
starting later because it startslater next year.
So she was a little stressedabout having to get all my
daughter's presents together andshipping them and everything.
Oh, no, yeah, that Jewishcalendar just doesn't like to

(01:52):
keep put this year, I think itstarts on Christmas Eve, it ends
in January, which I don't thinkit's ever been in January in my
entire life.

So I don't know.
If it so, my Bat Mitzvah wasDecember 28th of the year of no.
No, no, no, no, no.

Yes, yes.

But it was the fifth day of Hanukkah, so that
year I could get ended on the31st.
Okay, so my 30th, so that's theclosest I can remember call,
but that was, you know.
Obviously that's ingrained inmy head.

I you know the year thing I was called my mom
last night because I was doingmath is next, in March of 2024
will be the 25th anniversary ofmy Bat Mitzvah.
Wow.
So I was like, I was like Igotta do like a special episode
about Bat Mitzvahs because of mymy big anniversary, so let's go
ahead and get started talkingabout you.

(02:48):
So, pam, where are youoriginally from and how did you
end up in New York City?

So I was born in New York.
I was born in Queens, but Ididn't stay there.
When I was just about two and ahalf years old we moved to
Cleveland, Ohio.
So I grew up in Shaker Heights.
A lot of people recognize itfrom that book Little Fires
Everywhere.
Have you ever done that before?
Yeah, so that's the semester.
And then I came back to NewYork for college.
I went to Barnard College andthe Jewish Theological Seminary.

(03:14):
I did the dual degree programbecause I thought it was totally
normal for an 18 year old to behaving like seven to eight
classes a semester.
But I found out later thatwasn't true.
It's a lot of school work, it'sa lot of school.
But I was like, yeah, doublebang for your buck, Two degrees
for the same price.
So what's better than a good,than a good bargain?

How was that as far as like your actual social
life, or being able to even doanything, taking that many
classes?

I didn't know any different.
So I had a very robust sociallife.
I was out all the time.
I just I thought it was normal.
I had no idea my other friendsjust at Barnard or Columbia were
taking four classes a semester.
So that really blew my mind.
Senior year I was like, wow,this is different.

That's a very, that's a very full load.
So what was it like growing upJewish in Ohio and what was your
Jewish upbringing like ingeneral?

Yeah, I think a lot of people are not aware of
how robust the Jewish communityis in Ohio.
I was talking about this withsomebody yesterday and because
someone was like, oh Cleveland,there must be like a small
Jewish population and I was likeno, it's totally the opposite.
At one point when I was younger, cleveland was the fourth
highest donating Federation, youknow, just to give you an idea

(04:26):
across the country.
So I grew up in a suburb thatwas really diverse but, I'm
grateful for it.
But we were surrounded by othersuburbs that were very enriched
with Jewish, jewish culture,jewish community, like right
next to ours.
So I don't know I was.
I was in this wonderful bubbleof the conservative movement.
I'm pretty much your posterchild.

(04:46):
So someone's like what's theconservative movement?
Look like It'd be like me on aposter with like my hand up
saying hi, I'm from theconservative movement.
I I went to like synagogue everyweekend.
I was like kid in front singingin Kelohenu at the end of the
Bima.
I did USY and Kadima.
I like had leader, massiveleadership positions within
there.
I went to camp for mom.
I went to Barnard and JTS likeanything that is associated with

(05:14):
the conservative movement I didit.
So, yeah, you know, we keptShabbat in my house every week
was really beautiful.
It's how I learned how to cook.
I would like make Shabbat mealsat a certain age and my mom
will let me take over and dothat.
And Judaism was just really.
You know, I went to Jewish Jschool until eighth grade.
Then I wanted to go to publicschool.
So it was really a very muchinfused.

(05:35):
It's like in the core of mysoul.
That's like how I, how I knowthe world.
I know the world through aJewish lens and I think that's
really beautiful.

Would you still consider yourself conservative?
Do you belong to a synagoguehere in the city?

It's so funny because I do consider myself
conservative, although I don'tpractice in the same ways.
I don't belong to a synagogue.
I think I find a lot of peoplewho are not married or with
families around our ages don'treally belong where, but I do
love going to programming andholidays at a certain place
synagogue.
I really love what the rabbisdo over there, I love the

(06:10):
programming they're they're sowelcoming and I spend all my
high holidays there.
So that's been really that's.
That's been a really lovelycommunity to be a part of here
in New York.

I think you're really right.
It is kind of hard to find likea home base.
There are a lot of twenties andthirties young people
programming all over the citybut a lot of it's tailored to
like families in the family unit.
We didn't join a synagogueuntil we had a daughter because
it's easier to do your own thingwhen you're just an adult, but
when there's a kid it changes.

Yeah, and I think we're making better efforts to
creating opportunities foradults who are between like
twenties to thirties and earlyforties, if you don't have a
family.
To be a part of that andthere's definitely wonderful
organizations like MGE, I think,does a really fabulous job.
There's a lot of really coollike that.
There's a center down inTribeca that is cool programming
.
But you know, I think a lot ofthings change when you have a

(07:02):
family.
They date a lot of things.
That's a life cycle of mine.

Yeah, I definitely .
The episode we just releasedwas kind of like my interview
and talking about how just evenfinding my way back to Judaism
in general was a thing thathappened when I had my daughter,
so it makes a lot of sense.
So how did you get involved inthe hospitality industry?

When I was at Barnard and JTS, I actually was
signed up to take the ColumbiaBartending Academy course and
it's just this course thatteaches you the basics of
bartending, and back then it wasnot as robust as it is now and
if you place at the top of ityou can then get jobs like
bartending around the city, likesmall jobs, like pouring wine
and beer at places.
So I took the course just forfun, because my friends taught

(07:45):
it.
I didn't think anything of it.
This was the year 2006.
Oh my gosh, sorry I didn't meanto give dates, but here we are
and it's fine.

That's the year I met my husband.
So, we're not judging how longthings ago are good.

Great and I did it just for fun and I really
loved it.
I latched onto it prettyquickly but I think at that time
I was in college, we were alldrinking, so it was fun to know
how to make a French martini.
When I, in the recession of away don't know nine, I lost my
job and I was trying to findsome quick employment and a few

(08:18):
of my friends knew a manager ata bar and they're like hey, you
could bartend if you want on theside, and because I knew how to
, and I was like OK.
So here's like, here I come outin this world with like two
degrees from two like reallywonderful universities and I
like already had some a year anda half of like corporate work
under my belt and I go intodaytime bartending and my
parents were just I don't wantto say they were living, but

(08:42):
they were pretty shocked.
You know, and I think the otherbig part is that in the Jewish
world we we see a lot of peoplewho cook.
We don't see a lot of peoplewho work in Booze unless it's on
like the managerial sides of itred, or owning only liquor
brand or work for a liquorcompany.
You don't really see a lot ofpeople bartending or being

(09:02):
owning bars.
That's not really been in.
That's not really in the rollof decks of the careers that we
use.

Dr.
Lawyer, teacher Dr.

Lawyer bartender.
Yeah bartender yeah, so Ialways joke that my mom would go
to synagogue and they'd be likeasking how everyone's kids are.
It's like David doing great inmedical school, it's like
Sarah's loving law school andthey're like how's Pam at the
bar and my mom's like over here,a little bit like such a
shawnda right, Like a shame youknow it's funny that you say

(09:32):
that, because my greatgrandmother, who lived in Ohio,
actually owned a nightclub andbar.

So this was this was in the 30s and it was
actually in a black neighborhoodso they catered to a lot of the
black community.
So it was very it was kind ofcrazy and my great aunt has
stories of sleeping in like thefront window the police would
make sure everything was kosherand stuff.
So she comes from a long lineof that.
Her mother actually owned a tearoom in Russia and my great

(10:00):
grandmother would smugglealcohol on the train so that the
tea room had liquor.
So there are at least a fewJews who were involved with
owning bars.

We absolutely do have like a very dynamic and
rich background in history ofowning, of owning venues.
You know, it's just like overthe years we've things have
changed.
Yes, for a lot I'd say and sothat was really fun.
You know, I laugh a lot as towhere I was then and about how I
came about into this.
But I just started daytimebartending and I kind of put
partly that into a bigger careerin mixology and beverage

(10:33):
consumption.
Consumer engagement here we aretoday.

Daytime bartending is very different, I would
assume, than nighttimebartending, especially depending
on the neighborhood that you'rein.

It is.
But what people forget aboutdaytime bartending is it's
really about the care andconsideration of the people who
sit with you, because a lot ofthem are there for lunch, lunch
with a drink or early drinksafter work and they want to talk
.
So for me, it was this reallyincredible experience of meeting
people and providing ultimatehospitality, especially because

(11:05):
we were like next to a cancerhospital.
We were in an area with a lotof like constructions.
We had a lot of constructionpeople, so we had like a really
beautifully diverse range ofindividuals who would come into
our bar and sometimes I reallykind of felt like I was Sarah
with the angels and I was justlike here to like make sure
you're like.
You know you're doing well here.
I'm going to like serve you,make sure you're feeling great

(11:26):
when you walk out the doorbecause you get more time, which
is really unique.

That makes a lot of sense, which leads me to
another question I had.
I was going to ask a little bitlater, but you kind of already
talked about it.
You know a lot of people sitbehind a bar just literally to
have someone to talk to you.
Why do you think that peopletraditionally feel really
comfortable opening up tobartenders?

Well, I think it completely depends on the
bartender, that's.
This is a great question.
A few reasons, I think you know.
Depending on the person,alcohol can create a sense of
ease for some people.
So for those who need a littlebit of liquid, liquid courage,
that can kind of open up thepathway If you have a really
great bartender.
A bartender doesn't only wantto just give you a drink, they

(12:06):
want to make sure you're havingan experience, and so it's very
genuine and we're energy readers, right.
So we see how you come in.
If you're feeling like you havea big load on you, if you have
less stress, like we're here todeescalate that, we're here to
you know, make sure that we turnthat around before you leave.
So when you earn some of thesetrusts, they want to open up to
you immediately.
And also a lot of people whocome to the bar especially like

(12:29):
they're not hours a day sit solo.
There are not always like twopeople coming together.
When you sit solo, you're kindof looking for any experience to
interact with another person.
So when you give them an inch,they might take like a few more
inches or a mile if you let them.
So I think that is the.
Those are the biggestcomponents as to why you'll find

(12:49):
people opening up to bartenders.

So you're working as a daytime bartender at this
point Did you startexperimenting creating cocktails
, or did that come later?

Yeah, so initially I was just your
Vakasota Bud Light Girl that wasnot really good at serving us
quickly, but there was thisreally incredible wave of
mixology starting to happen.
I feel like a lot of peopleremember, in like the oh eight
to 2012, we had this what wecall like the second golden age
of cocktails that, over surgeons, where people were using fresh

(13:20):
juice and fresh, freshingredients.
There was a lot of innovationhappening.
So when the big speakeasymovement started and I remember
I remember being very interestedin all of it so I would bring
in my own ingredients to thesports bar and I would make
these cocktails and I get in alot of trouble because no other
bartender could recreate them,but I was.

(13:41):
I was having so much funbecause I could do things on my
own time.
And I remember seeing thisamazing magazine article in Time
Out New York where they werelike the best bartenders in New
York and I just remember seeingon the cover all these men and
one woman her name is MeganDorman.
She's a friend of mine now andI thought it was so atrocious
that only one woman was on thereand I said there's no way,

(14:01):
there's only one woman, no way.
They just probably didn't dotheir due diligence and I also
looked at the picture and I waslike I could get in there, I
could do that, like if they canall do it, I can do it.
So that was kind of thecatalyst that that lit a fire
under me to to start studyingand learning and getting

(14:22):
involved in that that area ofthe hospitality world.

Why do you think that at least back then I can't
speak for now it was such a maledominated field or male forward
facing field?

So many reasons.
Number one is that a lot of thewomen who worked in bars worked
at high volume clubs and barsLike basically like burn and
churny, make a lot of cashreally easily, right?
So they weren't working at likespeak easy bars.
There were actually a ton ofwomen who were, but we love to
showcase the men.
We love to like ignore thewomen and showcase.

(15:02):
So there were really reallybrilliant women like my friend,
natasha David or Aaron Reesewere definitely the four from my
friend like Lynette Marrero.
They were all out there butthey were being completely
overlooked.
I think the other part about itthat we still don't speak about
it even to this day is that ifa woman wants to go ahead and
start a family, being pregnantand being behind a bar people do

(15:24):
it.
But it gets hard at some pointand when you have the child it's
all about like, do you haveenough childcare?

kit.

Can you actually work along bar shifts anymore?
So a lot of people transitionfrom being a bartender into bar
owner, a manager.
So that's why maybe you wouldsee during that time less women
there and also we've beefed upsecurity.
I think it's the other part tohave, like a woman closed down a
bar Work the latest shift.
You need to make sure that thatplace is very secure.
I hadn't even thought aboutthat, but that makes complete

(15:56):
sense.

Do you find, have you found within your career
that there were challenges youfaced as a female bartender and
mixologist?

When I started, I was in my 20s and so I think my
biggest difficulty wasn't justthe fact that it was a room of
men, but it was a room of olderpeople who didn't want to take
me seriously.
So I would like be butting myelbows into a space with people
in their like 30s, 40s, 50s andthey, half the time, wouldn't
give me the time a day orwouldn't take me seriously,
which was unfortunate.
I had not found as much as manyissues with men in the industry

(16:33):
.
In fact, like a lot of men havebeen in a family supportive of
my career, a lot of men havebeen my mentors.
I've always been a guys girl,so maybe that's a little bit of
a challenge.
I've always been a guys girl,so maybe that's also a different
part of it.
But my biggest thing is ingetting into spaces.
I just wanted to ensure that Ithrew that rope back for more

(16:53):
women to then come into thespace.
So if you can wiggle yourselfinto a little bit, you can throw
that rope back and then startbringing everybody else in with
you.

So I love that analogy.

Yeah, yeah.
So at least for me it was, itwas, it was okay.
I mean, there was this memeboys club at one point, but I
turned it on them.

I love that you kind of came in and created a
space for yourself and, like yousaid, kind of left space for
women to kind of come in behindyou.
So you have a master's degreein food studies, which I did not
think was a thing, but makescomplete sense now that I know
it's a thing.
So what inspired you to go backto school and get your degree?
Did you have to write a thesis?

(17:35):
What type of classes do youtake for a degree like this?

So NYU has the leading program in food studies,
undergraduate and graduatelevel, and it was 2011.
And I I wanted to takebartending and mixology very
seriously and I thought for toshow my parents that the only
way I could earn their trust wasby going back to school.

Which is very Jewish.

It's so Jewish I'm, so many levels are like I
gotta prove it to you.
You know it's, it is, it's likethe ultimate, like Jewish guilt
, right?
Yes, so I, yeah.
That's why I applied to theprogram, cause I also wanted it
for myself.
I wanted, like I wanted, toshow people it wasn't just an
interest or a hobby in this, itwasn't just a career, but it was
academics and education and Iwanted that backbone.

(18:25):
So I went into the program andI did a focus on beverages and
for my thesis, I actually spentthe summer of 2014 driving all
across America because I wantedto learn how and why people
drink in different parts andregions of the country.
What's being offered?
Yeah, so I had a road trip thatwas about almost three months

(18:46):
long, 40 cities.
It was a wild experience I'venever driven the country before
which I suggest every person inthis world should do.
America is truly beautiful.
We don't know it.

I've never done it .
My husband's done it twice.
Oh my God, it's great.
He had to bring furnitureacross the country and then a
car, and he's gone the northernroute and the southern route.
So, and I can't, I don't likebeing in a car for more than
like six or seven hours, beingfrom LA, and his family was in
the Bay Area.
We do like up and downCalifornia a lot, but I kind of

(19:19):
hit a wall, so I feel like I'dneed to make a lot of stops if I
ever drove across the country.

Yeah, and actually if you did that like
six, seven hours, it's kind oflike max per day.
Trust me, I pushed it some daysto eight or nine, but you can
do it, anyone can do it, and Ijust highly suggest it.
You learn so much, not justabout yourself but like about
other parts of this country andthe people in the communities.
And I wanted to understand thatbecause, coming from New York,

(19:47):
which is most of my life inAnonsi Ohio, I haven't I spent
time in some other cities, butnot significant time, and I
wanted to really see thingsdifferently.

Is there a place that you found that people drink
drastically differently thanyou know here, or Ohio or other
major cities like Los Angeles orChicago?

I wouldn't say anybody drinks drastically
differently Now.
Remember this was nine yearsago, so a lot has obviously
shifted the country.
But what is telling is thatit's the age ranges of who's
drinking, what they're consumingand the rate at which the rate
of consumption.
But there's a lot of otherfactors that come into play,
including is there a masstransportation available in
those cities, you know, becausethe driving culture and then

(20:29):
also it's gonna affect things.
I found that careers like thetop careers and industries also
affect how people are drinkingand demographics of age.
So it was truly fascinating.
But there's some really coolspots around the country, like I
went to Boise, idaho, that hasa huge Basque community and

(20:53):
Basque cuisine which I had noidea about, and he had
phenomenal cocktail bars.
So that was pretty rad.
I would have never gone thereotherwise.

It's so interesting you talk about
transportation because I'moriginally from LA but we moved
to New York before Uber andlived to a thing.
So when we first came to NewYork, first of all the idea of
bar hopping is not really athing in LA.
You kind of plant yourself andyou're like, because you don't
wanna get in a car you couldn'tdrive.
So when we moved here, it'slike, oh, we're gonna go to like
four different bars in onenight, like what is you know?
You go down to the village andkind of just go around to places

(21:26):
.
So that was weird.
Also, like the idea of buyingrounds became.
It was like really a thing herewhere it's like well, I'll buy
it this bar and then you buy itthat bar, whereas in LA, at
least when I was younger, it waslike we all paid for our own
drinks.
And then going back to LA afterwe have now like Uber and Lyft,
it's changed so much.
I remember there was oneHalloween when we were in

(21:47):
college we wanted to go down toWest Hollywood for the parade
and we couldn't find a cab.
Like we were calling cabcompanies.
So like it's so interesting,you know, I guess it makes
complete sense thattransportation would play a huge
part in you know drinkingculture and how much people are
drinking and where they'redrinking in the proximity to
where they have to get to.
That's so interesting.

Was there yeah, absolutely.

Was there a place that you maybe not that people
were drinking so differently,but like a very unique drinking
culture somewhere in the UnitedStates?

A unique drinking culture?
That's a fabulous question.
I mean I definitely like inparts of Texas.
I mean, you know, that'sobviously like Margarita land.
It's very it was more agavefocused than anywhere else
before Tequila and mezcal likereally sprung up around the

(22:40):
world and that has everything todo with, obviously, the Mexican
border, but they've always beenat the forefront of like
Mexican flavors and cuisines andso I mean, while the Margarita
has nothing to do, honestly, ifMexico was an American invention
.

I didn't know that .
Oh my gosh, when was theMargarita invented and where?

The Margarita.
They don't know the exact datebut they do know that because
agave spirits, I think, cameinto America around like the
1950s and nobody really knowwhat to do with it.
What was big at the time?
People were making side carswith cognac.
So someone's like okay,normally cognac is a some simple
syrup, lemon juice and cognac.

(23:20):
So if I kind of change it outand I use Tequila, they will do
like lime and they use like atriple sec or sugar.
They made that drink andMargarita means daisy, so they
called it a daisy, because adaisy is the category of sour
drinks.
That's what we call sour drinks.
They're called daisies sonaturally because Margarita is
sour and it takes the shape of asour, sour drink.

(23:40):
That's the name.
So that's where it came.
They came out of America,clearly, because they drink more
like Palomas down in Mexicothan they do Margaritas.

I think that's so American that we're like this
thing that we're passing off isfrom another culture but was
really created like here.
Kind of this inspiration from,maybe, immigration and kind of
creating something.

Don't even get me started on Cinco de Mayo, like
we don't have to go there onthis podcast.

Cinco de Mayo.

Yeah, it is 100% American driven.
It was created by beercompanies to sell more beer.
They only celebrated in Pueblaand all of Mexico.
We should not be celebrating ithere in the United States
unless you have a community ofpeople who are from Puebla that
wanna do it and you celebratewith them.

It's kind of how I feel about Oktoberfest.
We visited Munich and we wentto the Hofbrahaus and a lot of
other breweries and they're likewe hate Oktoberfest.
It's a bunch of drunk Americantourists and someone we had an
employee from Germany that waslike if you wanna go to a beer
festival, a lot of the smallertowns in Bavaria are better than
Oktoberfest.
So, and also like-.

(24:48):
Leave it to America to ruineverything, of course, like
that's what we're gonna have.
Drinking, it's fine.
We also have the best holidayin New York City, santa Con,
which, if you're not from NewYork City, santa Con is a
holiday where the bridge andtunnel people those are the
people who have to take bridgesand tunnels into the city they

(25:09):
dress up like Santa and theystart drinking at like 9 am and
just they're on the trains andthey're running around the city
being obnoxious, and I usuallytry not to work that day because
it's literally the worst day inNew York City.
Have you for bartended on Santa?

Con.
Okay, so a few things aboutSanta Con.
When Santa Con was firststarted, it was only a handful
of a few hundred people and Iknow this because I was there
during the very beginning,before Time Out.
New York covered it because Ihad friends who went and the
idea was people who cametogether.
You would like carol in thestreets for people.
You would bring food.
That would go to like a hungerdrive.

So it was actually like a nice thing to start with
.

Totally was nice and the idea was just like a few
hundred people and it was togive an influx of money during
the daytime shifts to bars.
So they would, and you weresupposed, and they would kind of
give heads up to the bars aheadof time saying like we're gonna
bring these people.
And there was like all theserules, like don't be a dick, you
know, be nice, and that was theidea, like we would all take a

(26:09):
picture together somewhere.
Then the young people, reallylike super, found out about it
and it all got ruined.
I turn into what it is now, butof course that's very normal.
So, yes, I had partaken in SantaCon when I was really, really
young.
There's pictures of it, somepeople found them and they still
make fun of me today.
I have bartended during SantaCon.

(26:29):
I think, at the end of the day,when it comes to this and, by
the way, this is not just in NewYork, this is in other cities
when you see Santa Con, just runthe other direction or keep
yourself safe and if you happento be in a bar where anything
like that hits, just always lookat your staff and just ask them
say are you okay?
Do you need anything, you know,that's the best that we can do.

I'm obsessed with the fact that this started out
as like a charity thing and kindof became the worst day in New
York City, which is saying a lot, cause New Yorkers were kind of
just like I hope not.
I think it's the ninth.
I'm not leaving the Upper WestSide then?

I'll be at about Mitzvah in Omaha, so I'm gonna.
So you're good, so you're good,you're good, I just.

Thank goodness, I'm obsessed with that.
It used to be something likequaint and adorable and it
became kind of crazy.
Do you have a favorite cocktailto make?
I know you started out.
You started out making a lot ofvodka sodas, as you said.
Like, as time went on, wasthere a cocktail that became
your favorite to make?
Is it a cocktail you created?

I, when anybody asks me this question, I always
say and it's not even a blanketstatement, it just is true Like
my favorite cocktail to make isthe one that the guest wants and
the one that makes them happy,because there's nothing, there's
really nothing better thansomeone sitting at your bar and
talking through what they mightwant, making them something
based upon their, theirparameters and desires, and then

(27:57):
you put in front of them andthey have this big, huge grin on
their face Cause they just feellike so special in that moment
that you actually listened tothem or gave them something that
they liked.
So those are my favorite, thoseare my favorite moments and I
think that's like honestly, Ithink that's one of the best
parts of bartending in general.

I love that you keep bringing up hospitality.
As an actor, I worked inrestaurants for years and there
was one concept Do you rememberBlue Water Grill in Union Square
?
So I worked there for RIP BlueWater Grill.

That building is still empty too, by the way.

There's nothing there.
It's kind of crazy.
So they talked a lot about whatthey called second level
service, kind of going above andbeyond, and I love that you
keep bringing this up because Ithink for a lot of people we've
all been to restaurants whereit's just like this is clearly
just a job and people almostseem to be hating their lives a
little bit.
But I love going to restaurantswhere people are providing that

(28:48):
hospitality and really doingsomething extra to take care of
somebody.
I think it's amazing whenpeople make this like a
legitimate career and they'rethe idea of hospitality and that
second level service.
I love that you keep bringingthat up.

Yeah, I just it's very easy for any job to be a
job.
It's very easy and I'm not heresaying that, like when you work
in hospitality, especiallyservice oriented positions that
you have to go above, above,above and beyond, because there
could be a level of likeabusiveness that can happen
between guest exchanges ifsomething's taken, taken

(29:23):
advantage of or out of contextor if you feel like you have to
do something because you'redoing it for a tip, that's a
whole other conversation.
However, I love people.
I really love people.
I've always loved people sinceI was a little girl and I think
the part about hospitality thatI enjoy the most is the
opportunity to make someone'sday just with a little bit of
kindness, Because if someonecould have the worst day in the

(29:45):
world, come into your barrestaurant, you just offer a
smile and a little bit ofkindness and it can change
everything.
And it doesn't take much.
Kindness is free.

That is.
I love that.
I'm going to put that out ofbumper sticker.
Kindness is free.
I think we need a little morekindness, especially with
everything that's going on rightnow.
Oh yeah.
It's a crazy time, so yourfavorite cocktail to make is
whatever would make someone puta smile on their face.
Do you have a favorite cocktailto drink?

I am a situational drinker, so drink
based upon where I am, which isgreat.
I don't ever really navigatetowards one thing or another.
But if I had to round out alist of top faves, I'd say it
could be like a Negroni, a 50-50gin, martini, meaning it's like
half removed, half gin, whichis great, and you can have more
of those because you're notgoing to wind up on the floor as

(30:35):
easily.
I really love grasshoppers,which is like this creamy mint
drink.
You kind of can only have oneof them, but they're worth it.
And this tropical drink that'scalled a jungle bird, that a lot
of people don't know about,that is absolutely divine.

When you're off the clock, is there a specific
bar or restaurant you like tovisit to go for a cocktail?

When I'm off the clock.
I wouldn't say that there's oneplace that I'd like to go to.
I think there are definitelycertain bars and neighborhoods
that if I'm ever around thatarea, I like to pop in, even if
it's just to say hi to the staff.
I sometimes like to do that,but I don't have a cheers moment
.
You know what I mean.
I don't have a place.
That is just my cheers, becauseI do like to what I call

(31:20):
distributing the wealth.
I like to ensure that, if Ihave a dollar, that I am very
conscious of where that dollaris going to go, and is it worth
going to the same place over andover.
Is there a new place that justopened that you can support?
Get to know the people,especially within your
neighborhood.
Is it woman owned?
Is it minority owned?

(31:40):
There's a lot of opportunity toinvest our dollars in really
phenomenal ways.

So you've worked at a lot of different concepts.
Is there a bar or restaurantthat really stands out to you in
terms of a good experienceworking there, or a great
ambiance, or some really greatownership?

I.
There was a bar that was on theUpper East Side.
It's no longer around.
It was called Steam Stress.
It was open for about three anda half years and it's funny
because so many people still tothis day come up to me and like
they'll see me randomly andthey're like we really missed
that bar, or I think about thatbar all the time.
And it really was.
It really was.
It was such a big moment forthe Upper East Side because we

(32:23):
didn't have a cocktailexperience up here and so it was
kind of like one of the firstcocktail, like really high-end
cocktail bars, and it was reallycomfortable and wonderful.
And I love the bar program andour staff.
There was about like two orthree iterations of our team and
our staff, like we just reallywere a cohesive unit and it just
.
You have to be careful aboutusing the terms family, because

(32:44):
not everybody attributes toworking in staff as family and
that can be a little dangerous,especially as people of
different relationships withfamily dynamics.
We all felt we were like afamily unit in some ways and
we're all still very close.
We have a text thread that'slike five years strong that we
all we're everyone's highlysuccessful now doing different
jobs, but there was somethingreally special about that.
I've met a lot of people whowere like our first date was at

(33:06):
Seamstress or we got engaged atSeamstress or all these really
hysterical stories that even tothis day I get from random
people, which is great or DMs inmy Instagram inbox.

Why do you think the Upper East Side doesn't have
a lot of concepts like that?

The Upper East Side has changed drastically in
the past 10 years, even the pastfive years, and we do now.
Now we actually have like adecent amount of like really
good cocktail bars, I think youknow, as the second avenue is
that way opened as we had aninflux and change of who was
living in this area, we finallywere able to get a lot of really

(33:42):
interesting venues, restaurants, businesses to start opening up
here.
So now I'd say I'm really proud, like we were not the East
Village or the West Village likewith that high amount of
concentration of bars orrestaurants, but we do have a
lot of our own, and so if youwanted to just stay here and
like not go downtown, you'd bevery happy and that makes me
really proud to be able to seeconcepting like that.

Do you?
Are you also a wine drinker, ordo you stick strictly to
cocktails and spirits?

I love wine.
I love wine so much and I havea lot of friends who are
sommeliers, so it's a veryprivileged position to be in, to
be surrounded by some of themost brilliant wines, and I've
been fortunate to go to lots ofwineries to meet the wine makers
themselves around the world.
I think wine is such like abeautiful process and a really

(34:37):
beautiful industry and I thinkit's changed drastically in the
past 10 years.
And, you see, wine feels cool.
You see, you still feel reallystuffy and now there are so many
people that are changing thatstereotype.
So it's much more accessible,it's younger, it's fun.

(34:58):
So I'm very grateful for thatchange of I'm a wine drinker.

I'm not really a cocktail and spirits person
because I like sweet stuff and alot of people kind of stray
away from sweet cocktails, sothere aren't always a lot of
options.
My husband is a cocktaildrinker.
He experiments with makingcocktails.
He loves drinking cocktails.
We have the hugest.
We have the hugest personal barbecause he's a member of a

(35:26):
liquor club.
So he gets with this membershipa lot of bottles and tasters so
it looks like we have a literalfull bar in our apartment.
It's kind of crazy.

I get it.
I have over 700 bottles in myapartment because it's
essentially my work area.

Where do you keep all of that?
In a New York apartment.

I've got three rocks wire racks that are just
full of alcohol in one wall inmy apartment?
Yeah, but it's my office, yeah,so I pull from that when I'm
experimenting or working on anyconcepts for clients.

No, that makes me intense.

Some people have file folders.
I have wine bottles and likeBeards bottles.

I think wine bottles and spirit bottles are
much more fun than having afiling cabinet like I have
sitting right next to me.
That's just different.
Speaking of wine being fun andthings changing, do you think
American palettes are becomingbetter or different over time
and if so, why do you think thatis?

Yeah, the American palette has definitely
shifted over the past 15 years.
The biggest change that we'veseen is the American palette
gravitating towards bitternessas a flavor, which is something
that's very keen in Europe,especially, obviously, the
Italian areas, and that has alot to do with travel, as
America has become prettyobsessed with travel and

(36:43):
exploration and obviously theyounger generation it's at the
forefront of their favoritepastimes.
Yeah, people spend.

It goes like household things and then
experiences.

As far as spending, yeah, and it's great
because what it's doing is it'sdiversifying the portfolio of
things that we're eating andconsuming here in America.
We're having more global access, so bitterness is a really
fascinating flavor because,while everything else we are
kind of born with sour, sweet,umami, savory, salty bitterness

(37:20):
is learned.
You're not born liking bitterthings.
You actually train your palateto like it.
So when you taste somethingthat's bitter when you're
younger or even like mid-20s orsomething you may not like it
and you're like this is grossbecause you actually have to
keep going back at it in orderto start understanding it and
train your palate to like it.
So that's why a lot of people,when they have an amaro or

(37:41):
something like Campari or anegroni, they don't like it
initially, but after a few timesyou start craving it because
you develop bitterness.
So that's been something that'svery fascinating here in
America.
Obviously, the apral spritz isa great example of that.

My husband's shaking his head.

yes, yeah right, he's like this will make sense.
And then we also are gettingdrier palates.
Now this depends where you live.
In America there are definitelyplaces that still skew towards
sweeter profiles, but a lot ofplaces that used to be like more
sugary and more sweet drinksLike now you see drinks that

(38:17):
people want things that are moresour, drier, less sugar and a
lot of has to do with also thehealth and wellness movement of
how people are eating.
So as you change your eatinghabits and what your body craves
, that will change up what youdesire also for what you're
drinking.
So if you are cutting out moresugar, you're not going to want
to crave that in your drink andyou're going to want to crave
other flavors.

Interesting.

Yeah, and also we're seeing less drinking and
that's also really amazing.
The low proof, no proofmovement is pretty strong with
these days.

So you talked about having all these bottles
in your apartment to create newcocktails.
Can you walk me through theprocess of what you need to do
to create a new cocktail and howlong that takes and what goes
into all of that?

Yeah, firstly, there's really no such thing as
a new cocktail, becauseeverything follows the same
format.
There's like six formats ofcocktails and from there you
kind of make changes and tweaksso you can't ever say like this
is brand new, original.
But the most important thing isunderstanding and identifying
the main flavor that you want tohighlight.
So I often start with aningredient or a flavor or a

(39:25):
concept or sometimes a color,and then I walk my way around
that I love the color thingbecause I'm such a visual person
and the way a drink looks I'llnever forget.

This is a little off topic.
I don't remember where we were.
We were somewhere in the WestVillage because I wanted to go
somewhere for my birthday andthere was a cocktail place, or
no, no, it was going back.
So there was a tea place andthey also had cocktails and
there was glitter in thecocktail my husband ordered like
literal glitter, and we werefinding glitter on him for four

(39:55):
days, which never put glitter.
Please don't ever put glitterin a cocktail.
Because, first of all, itarrived and we were like what is
this?

You can, but you have to put a tiny amount.
It was not a tiny amount ofglitter it was not a little bit.

So I love this because I'm such a visual People
love fads.

That was a big fad a few years ago.

Was it really?

Yeah, it was a big fad about like four or five
years ago.
It started where that edibleglitter could be put in drinks.
But people do it in the wrongcapacities or they make it
overwhelming.

Yeah, it was a little too much glitter, but I
love that you say you're like Istart with color, because I
think that you have very strongreactions to certain the way
certain things look, so I lovethat.
That's kind of like a basesometimes.

Yeah, aesthetics are a huge selling point in a
drink, because half the timepeople will be in a bar and be
like what's that?
I want that?
They don't even care what's init, but you eat with your eyes.
First you always eat with theireyes.
That's why we love foodtelevision, because, even though
we're never going to eat thething that's on there, we can
experience it in the samecapacity and believe we can
smell it just because of what wesee, which is fascinating.

(41:01):
So, yeah, so I always startwith that and then I work my way
around flavor profiles andthings that work together.
I love using the book.
If people don't own it at home,I highly suggest getting it
called the flavor Bible.
You can buy things for anyonewho cooks, anybody who likes to
make drinks.
It is fabulous Because what itdoes is it dissects the main

(41:21):
ingredient that you're lookingat and then every ingredient
that correlates with it, thenthe ones that are the strongest,
and then ones that are like asecondary, and then you can
start creating what I calltriangles of flavor, because
when you can get three flavorsthat link up together and work
in a drink, you'll have a muchmore dynamic flavor profile.

So this is what you get when you get a master's
in food studies you get veryscientific Because it is it's
science, like creating food andbaking and cocktails is
chemistry.
I think there's that show rightnow with Brie Larson where it's
something like chemistry andshe's like a chef.

I watched the whole.
Thing.
Was it good I watched the wholething Absolutely fabulous.
I love the lessons in chemistryand I love it.
And I also love it because itrelates and correlates to a lot
of beverage making, because wedo use science all the time and
it's ironic because science wasmy worst grade.
It's cool and I use it all thetime, and I also use science as
a way to explain how drinks cometogether.

(42:17):
I teach a lot of cocktailclasses and I always go back to
elements of math and physics andother components of science,
because that's what it is.

So you ever tell your parents this is a very
Jewish thing, it's veryscientific.

It's yeah.
I always go back to my parents.
My parents are very proud of me.
I need to put that forward.
My parents are so proud of me,they're so proud of my career.
They love to brag about me andShul they talked to other
friends about it.
It's very different now, but Ifeel so fortunate for their love

(42:51):
and support, as I took a verydifferent pathway.
That obviously was very scary,but they believed in me and I
wanted to show them that I couldlive up to their expectations
of what they would have for me.

Are your parents big drinkers?
Did you grow up with themtrying cocktails and having
alcohol in the house?

I had no alcohol in the house.

My parents are like that too, really.

Yeah, we had this liquor cabinet.
That was just where my dad wasentertaining fellow doctors.
They would sometimes havelittle clubs that came over.
We had no alcohol.
The most we had was my uncleswould get together and have
kiddish on Saturdays For thosewho don't know after synagogue.
Sometimes you make kiddush, andkiddush is the prayer over the

(43:35):
wine, or you would have a littleschnapps or something and they
call it kiddish, kiddish club,so my uncles would get together
and they would drink crown royal.
So that's what I remember mostas a kid, and also any of the
leftover purple bags we wouldget to put our toys in for
synagogue.
So there's something reallynostalgic about it.
When I see purple bags I'm like, oh, it's a toy bag for

(43:57):
synagogue.

Yeah, I mean, my parents weren't big drinkers
either, so it never really haddirection as far as what I
wanted to try.
Which leads me to my nextquestion.
If someone just turned 21 andthey're interested in trying
cocktails, what would be youradvice to them?

I love this question, mazel, on turning 21.

Especially because you said that your taste change
.
I feel like that's how I feltabout beer.
I used to hate beer and now I'ma huge beer connoisseur and I
love beer.

Yeah.
So if you turn 21 and you'regonna start having drinks, I
think the best thing to do is tosit at a bar and have like
maybe two, three rounds, likeit's so good to start slow, and
I would get one thing that'sstirred, one thing that's shaken
.
So shaken is probably gonna besomething that has citrus in it,

(44:49):
so you're gonna get like a soursalad drink.
You're gonna get a more spiritforward drink, so you can kind
of see the difference.
And then I would get somethinglike completely like off the
wall that's on the menu.
Maybe it's something teakingand tropical, maybe it's
something creamy, maybe it'ssomething like smoked and also
using, having like differentalcohols in them, and that can
kind of get your palate tounderstand what you gravitate

(45:11):
towards, naturally.

What was your first drink when you turned 21?

Oh, you only want to hear my 21 first drink, or
do you want to hear the firstthing I've ever drank?
No, we can do both.

We can do both.
My first drink ever was a whatis that?
The?
Oh my God it you had like asmirnoff, yes.
So my first drink was like araspberry smirnoff ice.
Well done.
So I am a classy chick and Iwas not 21.

(45:42):
And I can't get in trouble forthat now.
I think I was 18.
It was.
So I don't remember what myfirst like legal drink was, but
I started off by drinking with araspberry smirnoff ice.

Yeah, I actually happened to know my first legal
drink because I, since mybirthday is during winter break,
I was at home and I had gottenin a fight with my parents, and
so the morning after my birthdayI stole the car keys and I left
a note and said went toColumbus and also to see grandma
.
Don't call me, be back in threedays.

Oh.

Probably like most devious thing I've ever
really done.
And I was with my friends inColumbus.
We went to this bar calledBrothers and the first thing we
did was had.
I think we ordered some drinksbut we got around to shots and
we got purple Hooters, which aredisgusting, but I don't.
I totally remember that and wegot purple Hooters.
But my first thing I ever drank, which is I have such like a

(46:39):
Prussian, like Madeleine, momentwith it.
I'm very nostalgic for all thetime when I was very, very young
, maybe like third, fourth grademy parents let me have a little
bit of wine at Shabbat dinnerand it was Ketem's Plum Royale
wine.
Very sweet, very sweet.
They still have it.
But there's something in likeJapanese culture called Ume Shu,

(47:01):
which is a plum like plumliqueur wine distillate and it's
the exact same thing and Icrave it all the time.

That's so funny.
I know someone whose dad workedfor Ketem and I believe he had
his Bar Mitzvah on a Sundaybecause they wanted to make sure
that the bosses, like the headof Ketem, could come, so like
they didn't even want them likedoing anything on Saturday night
.
So it was actually a party on aSunday and we drank their grape
juice on Shabbat at my house.

(47:31):
I have like very like causethat's what they'd serve like at
Hebrew school, so it's verynostalgic for me.
The grape juice.

Yeah, so fun fact and this maybe this is like a
good takeaway for, like, if youwant one last hot tidbit for
making cocktails at home to makea syrup, all you have to do is
take a liquid, equal parts ofthat with sugar and mix it
together at room temperature.
You don't have to heat it up.
One of my favorite, favorite,favorite hacks in making drinks
I always have like a concordgrape drink somewhere on my menu

(48:00):
was using Ketem's Concord Grapeas the base and I would make a
syrup with a heavy syrup and itis phenomenal, especially if you
wanted to make whiskey sourcedbut use like a grape syrup
instead.
It is divine.
So, if you ever wanted a nicehack to make some great drinks
at home, Ketem Concord Grape.

So, talking about, you know, home bars and people
drinking at home, what would besome of the staples you'd
suggest to someone who waslooking to create a home bar,
who's interested in entertaining, who's interested in maybe
experimenting with cocktailsthemselves, what would be kind
of the things that they shouldget to start their home bar?

Fabulous.
So if you're gonna start a homebar, you need really good tools
.
So don't just buy any tool setthat you see.
Get ones that are reallyfunctional, like if you get one
of those has a jigger that has ahandle, that's not useful.
So I got a lot of tools fromeither Barfly or Cocktail
Kingdom.
Those are really good companiesand they're not that expensive.
You can also find great full,complete bartending tool kits on

(49:01):
Amazon.
I suggest getting a tin on tinshaker, not like the Boston one,
like the really tin on tin.
They're easier to open, you canhold more drink in there.
And then when you're startingyour own bar cart, have one of
each bottle as a staple that youwouldn't a well.
So vodka, a gin, a tequila, arum and a whiskey Whisky I would
suggest bourbon or rye and thenalso grab yourself a bottle of

(49:24):
scotch just to have, if you want, for cocktails or to serve to
people, and then from there andalso a bottle of triple suck,
and good triple suck, likeCumbier, cointreau, not like the
really sugary stuff that has noproof level.
And then from there you canmake a lot of drinks.
And please use fresh lemon andlime, squeeze it yourself, don't
use the stuff in the plasticbottles that has preservatives,

(49:48):
and it'll make all thedifference.
So that's enough of a staple tobegin with.
And remember, you don't have tospend a millions of dollars on
the bottles that you're going tomix with and I have to always
stress that and your drinks areonly as good as your tools.

What would be your advice to someone who's
interested in making mixology acareer?

I think, for what mixology this applies to.
Mixology, like any career thatyou wanna have, is if you're
going to do something and yousee longevity within the space,
apply yourself.
Don't just phone it in Likeit's so easy to go to the work,
your desk and then go home.
I highly suggest get involvedanother way start learning about

(50:32):
your community.
If there are like seminars andconferences, head there, go to
networking events, throwyourself into the rooms.
I could extend your hand andtell people who you are, because
the more that you can getinvolved, the more people are
gonna know your name, the moreopportunity that comes around.
And especially when it comes tolike mixology, it's just

(50:54):
constantly be on like the cuspof learning and of what's
happening within the scene andjust be a good person.
No one likes a, no one likes aoccur budget.
Honestly, just be a really nice, good person and make space for
others.
There's room for everyone atthe table.
There's opportunity foreveryone, and when you look out

(51:18):
for the other people, they lookout for you too.

In the past, you've created cocktails that
were inspired by your Jewishheritage.
Is this something that yousuggested, or is this brought to
you as an idea?
How has that come about?
I think?

in a lot of ways I've always infused little bits
of my Judaism into my drinks.
But I just remember one week wewere sitting in synagogue and I
was visiting my parents at homeand in the parasha that week
they were talking about agrouping of fruits that they had
found and I remember readingabout it and I was like, well,
that sounds like it could bereally good in a cocktail.

(51:53):
I remember saying next to mymom and I said that she goes
what I was like, that soundslike it'd be great in a cocktail
.
So I did, I went and I made adrink with that and I was like,
oh, this is delicious.
So I have found there's so muchinspiration because let's get to
the core of Judaism right, likeour holidays are about
celebrating because we survivedsomething or it's a year and we

(52:16):
eat right, and there's a lot offlavors in the forefront,
symbolic foods, significantbites.
You can infuse all that intodrinks.
They're the same staple flavorsthat work really nicely into
beverages.
So I try to do that.
Like I've made complete liquidSeder plates that I've served at
Passover Seder's.
You know, obviously, whenRussia Shana comes around, I

(52:38):
love making drinks that I haveapple, honey and pomegranate and
then to be shot is just likeripe and ready for like so many
fabulous drinks, including likeolive oil.
And then and I think thatthat's where the creativity and
fun comes into beverages Causeit's such an easy way to give a
wow factor to any meal thatyou're doing, sometimes with
like minimal work, and that'sreally the true hospitality

(53:02):
behind cocktails it's creatingthis incredible, memorable
experience that doesn't have tobe so laborious on your end.

So you are speaking of being Jewish.
You're very outspoken aboutyour pride in being Jewish on
your online platforms.
Why do you think this is soimportant, especially with
everything that's going on rightnow?

I I've always been like a proud Jewish person,
especially a proud Jewish woman, even since I was little.
The theme of my butt miss aWisconsinica Like.

I'm sorry, we're gonna come back to that.

Yeah, I know, I know I think it's just been at
the core, the core of how I livemy life.
It's like how I treat otherpeople, the lessons that I
learned, the morals and valuesthat I run by, operate by, and
so especially in the past, I'dsay in my life, specifically in
the past like six, seven years,it's really come to the

(53:56):
forefront of who I am in my work, cause I think for a while,
especially getting involved inthe hospitality community, I put
my Judaism on the back burnerin order for to get career
advancement.
I didn't observe some holidaysbecause big things were
happening on them.
I didn't stand up for myselfand speak out about it, and I
sometimes often say that I'mhaving like my big Sandy Kofax

(54:20):
moment.
Yeah, yeah yeah, because I likeI no longer will allow people to
do value the importance ofJudaism and our holidays and our
significance of our time.
And I just think, as globaljewelry is undergoing this huge

(54:40):
wave of like, anti-semitism andfear, it's so important that, if
you have the ability to have avoice and to speak up and you
feel comfortable doing so, thatyou do so.
And so for me personally, ofall things Judaism related,
fighting anti-Semitism is at thecore of my work, because I'm
unafraid to say that I'm Jewish.
I wear a Jewish star, likeevery day, and I'm very proud of

(55:07):
what Judaism represents formyself and to so many other
people, so I just put the twotogether.
So I'm like the Jewishbartender, I'm like one of a few
.
There's a few of us that arevery outspokenly Jewish, and so
it's nice because we kind oflike all find each other.

So I wanna go back to your bat mitzvah.
You said your bat mitzvah tookplace over Hanukkah and the
theme was Hanukkah.
What was that?
Tell me everything I wanna know.

I'm seeing if I can find you a picture of it
because it's just that funny,but I'm not sure if I can.

So the theme of our event.
Find one and post it onInstagram, like for Hanukkah.

I want you to do that.
I always do so.
Everybody else had these themeslike Amy under the stars at
Broadway, or like Rachel and NewYork City, the Big Apple, and
like David and the NBA.
And my mom my bat mitzvah was onthe fifth day of Hanukkah.
I am born on December 27th, sono one's ever been around for my

(56:04):
birthday.
It's always around Hanukkahtime.
When you're a Hanukkah baby,kind of like, a lot of you are
listening, can sympathize andempathize with me, because if
you're born on Hanukkah you'relike, ah, the presence wasn't
you, like it all got compoundedtogether.
But my mom and dad said to melike really remind me to.
Like don't forget, bar andButtman says are about becoming

(56:26):
a woman, it's about God and it'sabout you know the next step.
So my mom's like well, it'sduring Hanukkah, we should just
have Hanukkah.
And I was like come on Hanukkah, but because my brother my
brother had my brother's teamwas, he was president's day
weekend, so he did like WhiteHouse and presidents was he's.

That's gonna be in the book.
That's going in the book.

So mine was Hanukkah and I remember I had
that's like massive dreidel thatyou can sign when you came in.
But I actually, like I love itnow.
Think about it, I'm obsessedwith that Also, I really okay.
So I desperately wanted likeTerry MacLone was the name of
the DJ that everybody had and Ilike went to all these bar but I
went to over 100 bar buttons.
Okay, like I was that kid and Iwant him so bad and my mom's

(57:06):
like this is about being Jewish.
We're booking the Yiddish CupKlezmer Band.
So I had a Klezmer Band.
I had a Klezmer Band.
My bum is it was during brunchtime and and then the theme was
Hanukkah.
So I think this like reallysums me up very well as a person
, but I actually am so gratefulthinking about it now in

(57:29):
hindsight.
I don't know.
I was just an event with SusanAlexandra, who's this amazing
designer jewelry, bag and stuff.
She has a Judaica line.
She just did a Hanukkah partywhich she debuted her menorahs
and there was a comedian thereand he's like what was
everyone's theme for their barand band?
And people started yelling itout and I go, the guy was like

(57:49):
wait, why?
So I'm pretty grateful though,because it's my favorite day.

You know what's really funny is I had a daytime
party and my mom's MO was alwayskind of like no one sits around
and talks about their bar butMidsfahs.
I'd rather save the money andspend it on your wedding, but I
feel like all I've been doing istalking about people with their
bar and bar Midsfah themes andI'm kind of obsessed with it
because it's different than awedding, because you can really
go like full on theme and Ithink it says a lot about like

(58:19):
you was a person and where youwere at at the time, depending
on some people, like the themeis just Jewish, like I talked to
one of the two, a rabbi, whowas like we didn't have shoes, a
trench, like we didn't have atheme.
You know it was just like barMidsfah, but name it's fo was
the theme.

Yeah, it's wild.
And also the Adam Sandler moviethat just came out like
resonated super hard with me andI was visiting home.

When we watched that my mom, my sister and I and
that scene where Adina Menzeland the younger daughter are
arguing about what she's goingto wear with my mom and my
sister because we were alsoconservative, so you had to
cover your shoulders on thebeema and my sister was like I
don't want to wear this.
Like little suit outfit thatwas very popular in the 90s, so
it was very.
I felt very.

(59:03):
We felt very seen, we felt very.

Oh my God, me too .
I actually went home and Ifound my Bump Midsfah outfit and
I tried it on.
I was like this still fits.
Wait, should I be taking thisback with me?
This is iconic.

I was a size like double zero at my Bump, midsfah,
so it would fit maybe on my arm.
I was like I looks like a Q tip.
I was like super thin and hadvery big hair.

Oh, I had already gone through that phase.
So like I, my body had likealready like kind of changed the
whole bunch.
So you know, but I I can't waitfor for this next part of your
podcast, like you're going tohave a whole other one that
comes out just discussing barb.

I feel like a lot of people would love to talk
about their barb.
So you co-authored a book withthea James.
Can you tell me about how thatcame about and what the process
of writing the book was like?
And I my husband doesn't myhusband doesn't know about this
book and I think he's going tonerd out a little bit when you
explain what it is.

It's a great Hanukkah present because it
costs $18.

Nicole Kelly (01:00:00):
Oh very auspicious .

Pam Wiznitzer (01:00:02):
Yeah, so the book is called drinking with wizards
and dragons.
It is a fantasy orientedcocktail book.
So fair James is a Hugo awardwinning author.
She is one of the like theforemost authorities in
everything fantasy and a bit ofsci-fi, so she's written lots of
other books before she did oneabout cooking like cooking with
dragons and wizards so theywanted one about cocktails.

(01:00:24):
They and I share a mutual bestfriend.
Her name is Leah Doyle and Leahheard they.
I was like I need a mixologistwho would kind of like get nerdy
and want to do this with me,and we was like you should meet
Pam because she's really nerdywhen it comes to dissecting
drinks.
So this was a really funcollaboration.
They like laid out all of theselike books and what she wanted

(01:00:45):
done and I knew I knew a goodportion of them.
So some of the drinks are.
Some of the drinks are thingsyou've seen before, like a
martini, but I really want tomake sure we had staples in
there plus new drinks and Iwanted classics and new ones.
But you know like I really likemy butterbeer recipe personally
.
This was such a fun, a fun taskand also most of the drinks can
be made non-alcoholic throughusing non-alcoholic distillates

(01:01:07):
and non-alcoholic beers and wine.
So if you've ever wanted to putmead in a drink, if you've ever
wanted to like kind of thinkabout, like the Sandman and like
all of his associated, likesiblings, and like what they
would be having, this is thebook for you.

If you could bring a drink from any sort of fandom
into reality, would it be thatbutterbeer or would it be
something else?

I mean, I think butterbeer is super fun.
There's something calledGigglewater that is around and
Gigglewater actually there wassome form that existed around
like in the 1920s.
We're not entirely sure whatwas in it.
There's like posters for it.
But you know, that would be funto like kind of bring back like
full time and figure out likewhat it completely is.
But I think there are so manyflavors and foods and things

(01:01:56):
that you see in these books, soit's really fun to bring it to
life.
My personal favorite was makingthings for the Lion, the Witch
and the Wardrobe.
So we took like I took theTurkish delight and turned it
into a drink for me.
That was exciting because thatwas one like the first
fantasy-esque books I read.
As a kid I also tried to lookfor Narnia through the back of
my closet at night times aftermy parents made a bed and I
never found it?

Never found it, no , never so weird, but it never
happened.
So is there anything else thatyou want to talk about or, I
guess, plug any.
You know concepts you'reworking on.
We talked about your book.

Yeah, I mean I have.
I have some things in the workswhich I can't fully discuss
right now, but I would say, like, stay tuned, like follow my
Instagram, a lot of the thingsthat I do.
If I put on my Instagram and Iknow that, like, in the past few
months, there's been a bit of apause of cocktail content and
creation, as I've used this timeto be more spoken about
anti-Semitism and also somethings that have happened in my

(01:02:53):
personal community aroundIslamphobia, anti-muslim hate.
So I care so much about thewell-being of our communities.
So I know that I will begetting back to more heavy
cocktail content, but there aresome things in the works.
There's, you know, some reallycool projects I'll be attaching

(01:03:17):
myself to in the next year andthen 2024.
And, more than anything, I justI really want people to drink
well.
I want everyone to be sippingsomething delightful.

Well, with the holidays coming up, I'm hoping a
lot of people will be imbibingin a responsible and fun way,
absolutely responsibly.
So this next section.
These are short form questions,done in the style of the Actors
Studio, so they don't need tobe long answers.
What is your favorite Yiddishword?

My favorite Yiddish word is Fakhaka.

That's a good one.
What is your favorite Jewishholiday?
My?

favorite Jewish holiday is Hanukkah.

If you were to have a Batmitsva today, what
would the theme be?
I'd keep Hanukkah, hanukkah.

I kind of love it and it would be around the time
my birthday anyway.
So like I love this holiday, Ilove everything about it and I
except I would have more latkesand sufganiyod than I did at my
Batmitsva and I would like I dosome Hanukkah related like games
and things.
I would lean in hard into thetheme.

What profession other than your own would you
want to attempt?

If I wasn't a mixologist.
Right now, and I think justbecause I actually recently met
him in New York, I'm sointerested in the position of
public advocate in our localgovernment.
I just met Jemaine Williams andI think the idea of relating
and speaking to the communityand the people is really
incredible and fascinating andempowering, so I would probably

(01:04:54):
try to go that avenue.

If heaven is real and God is there to welcome you,
what would you like to hearthem say?

It's me, Alanis Morse.

That is a very fun pointed reference.
I hope people understand that.
If they don't, I got it.

I got it so.

I appreciated it.
I'm sure at least you know acouple other people will, if not
just Google Alanis Morse at Godand you can watch a very fun
movie.
Well, thank you so much forjoining me.
If you're interested inlearning more, you can follow
Pam on Instagram and she's gotsome great information about
Judaism and cocktails.
Thank you so much for joiningme.

Thank you so much and happy holidays and thanks
for having me.

Like that you just heard, subscribe and you can
make sure that you don't missany of our episodes.
You can check out our Patreon,where you'll have access to
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"Poppin' Bottles" - An Interview with Pam Wiznitzer

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}"Poppin' Bottles" - An Interview with Pam Wiznitzer