American Ultra (2015)

The Winter Stoner

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In this week's movie, Andrew and Sam dive down the MK Ultra rabbit hole and take a look at Jessie Eisenberg and Kristen Stewart playing stoners who are secretly CIA agents. Will we utter the passkey to activate this film's killer skills, or will we let it sit on the shelf collecting dust, unaware of its true potential?

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Edited by: Sam Fenkel

Instagram: @shelfwarmers.podcast

YouTube: @ShelfWarmers

Next Week’s Episode: LOL

Episode Transcript

(00:11):
Welcome back to Shelf Formers. I'm Sam.
And I'm Andrew. This is the podcast where we
watch and discuss movies from roughly 2012 to 2020.
Also known as the pump and dump period of Hollywood.
Not exactly a golden age, but definitely a time of high
fertility for Tinseltown. Well, it was so fertile, in
fact, that we did not see many of the movies that were

(00:32):
produced. So if they're good, they're bad
or just mad, we're going to cover them all if they've been
sitting on the shelf. Well, Sam, I think it's time to
take it down. Do you want to hear the joke?
I was thinking of when you were doing the intro.
If you've been sitting on the shelf for five to 10 years, you
might be a shelf warmer. Have you been sitting on a shelf

(00:53):
collecting dust? Were you released in May of in
May of 2015? If so, you may be entitled to a
shell former compensation. I see.
I think I have such like a rotten brain that I thought you
were in the Ghostbusters thing. In some ways, yeah.
Yeah. In some ways, it all goes back
to Ghostbusters, doesn't it? Ghostbusters is top ten movie

(01:17):
The 80s. Maybe, yeah.
Do you think that that was a formative?
Do you think? Do you think that was a
formative film for you? Oh my gosh, it informed.
Like I wanted to be Peter Bankman.
I wanted to be, Ray stands. Maybe.
Maybe that's why we're the perfect.

(01:38):
Duo OK we've been getting a lot of feedback online about a
possible fan casting of me beingthe Bill Murray role in
Ghostbusters and Andrew being. Danny Aykroyd.
Danny Aykroyd And what if we didlike a Saturday night movie
about the making of Ghostbusters?
Oh wow. What if they did that and they

(01:58):
had Dylan O'Brien come back and play?
And, well, you didn't have Murray if so.
Who would play Murray? Sam Finkel, fuck you.
I wonder if you have this thing.I had this last night while
watching our movie American Ultra.
I was looking at like, you know,70 year old Bill Pullman.
Now he's probably 70. He's he's probably 60 in this

(02:21):
the kind of this thing where I watched Ghostbusters so many
times as a kid, like, you know, Groundhog Day and all this stuff
that when I saw Murray like in like, like, you know, like 2011
and he looks like a melted ball sack.
I was like, Oh my God, what happened to this guy?
I did the concept of like he's aged so much, but even the in
the sense I've like they're likefor Dan Aykroyd as a, as a, you

(02:48):
know, he's a larger man as he got older.
He's into the vodka like he's inthe aliens.
Like it was so bizarre for me tosee like him at 22, like at our
age in 1975, make a sex symbol. Like, you know, he rides
motorcycles and it's like reallyinto guns.
And I was like, oh, he's just like a old fat autistic woman
that loves vodka, like, and Murray's a melted ball sack.

(03:10):
And I was like, oh, they were like, really cool.
They were. I mean, Murray was one of the
biggest comedy stars of the 80s,one of the biggest movie stars,
just generally speaking. And then he kind of has that
cool thing where he ends up in all the Wes Anderson movies.
It's like the turn of the century.

(03:31):
Do you think it just, I feel like it's less of a thing
nowadays, but you just think it is like something that every
comedian from like 1980 to 2005 had to do where it was just
like, all right, you're funny for 10 years and you go into
like some dramatic roles and then you get older and you go
back to comedies. But the comedies are not what

(03:51):
they used to be. Yes, yes.
And now it's just you're a standup and then you're probably a
supporting role in a dramedy andthen you never really have a
movie career. And then you're done.
And you're done. Well, what about?
What about Bob? What about Bob?
Who directed that? Frank Oz Yeah.
Not, not John Landis. Not John Landis.
Because I wanted to tie in John Landis to today's screenwriter.

(04:15):
Yeah. The infamous.
Max Landis. Max Landers.
So yeah, so for people who don'tknow, I would say Max Landis was
a formative like figure or a person for our.
It's a figure of shelf Warner's era.
Absolutely he is. He's the son of Max Landis or
sorry, or he's a, he's a son of John Landis.

(04:39):
Like, you know, he's a very famous director.
He's a director of American Werewolf in London.
Blues Brothers training videos, Animal House, Coming to America,
and infamously the Twilight Zonemovie.
Yeah, which killed three people and he got away with it.
And he's look, look at the family is not a good family.
I think we can say that without getting to win any like, you

(05:02):
know, legal issue. Yeah, but Max has a lot of
accusations against him. He's a very a hated man.
His father's a very hated man. He's hated by Eddie Murphy.
He's hated by, I guess probably probably most of Hollywood.
He's kind of in the old guard where I bet like, I bet like,
you know, like, like Steven Spielberg talks to him.

(05:22):
To Landis, Yeah, because. He's like, we're old friends,
but yeah, he's hated. I would say the whole family's
hated. He I mean, I guess he is
obviously like a neppo baby. He did he have like a presence
online? Like how was he this?
How was he known to the average 15 year old So such as us?
We were really into some YouTubechannels when we were younger

(05:43):
called like Schmozno, like, you know, in the in the vein of like
Jeremy Johns and Chris Stockman,like the Screen junkies.
And I first became familiar withMax Landis through probably his
work on this movie and Victor Frankenstein, which both came
out in 2015. Yes, he went on Screen Junkies.
He went on movie fights. Which he produced, Loved.

(06:05):
Yeah, and he, he, she says it's a fun fact about Max Landis.
It's it's not a fun fact that sucks, but.
He's a really shitty fucking fact about Max.
Landis. He's the guy I like who coined
the term I like. I like to marry Sue.
He coined that term. Yeah, it's Mary Sue.
He coined it about Ray. Because I should not know that.

(06:28):
Yeah, because he hated The ForceAwakens and hated Ray, and he
did that and invertedly calls the whole wave of sexism and
like, hate against, I guess all those movies and Daisy Ridley.
Misogynist icon, for better and worse.
Mostly worse. He's also I know him very well
for his really funny tweet wherehe was writing the bright, which

(06:53):
obviously brights terrible movie.
It's a famous awful movie and hetweeted that he thinks it's his
Star Wars and then it came out and it's and it.
Is what it is. So he's a he's an embarrassing
loser. And he also wrote American
Ultra. Which is our movie today.

(07:13):
Which is the romance by action comedy film directed by Neymour
Norrizada? I think a fake name.
The last few directors have beenlike fake names.
Neymour, Frank, guys. Frank, guys, everybody.

(07:36):
I told somebody I was talking tosomeone recently.
Maybe it was my girlfriend. Oh, and the Shelf War was
exclusive. Sam has a girlfriend.
I was like, yeah, well, you know, I actually don't think it
was her, but it was like. Sorry, I just wanted to flex.
Yeah, I just wanted to flex. I have a girlfriend.

(07:57):
I was like, yeah, you know, the same guy voices Fozzie, Miss
Piggy and Bert, and this person was like, what?
I was like, yeah, Frank Oz, He'slike the second, second in
command. And then I was like, he's also
Yoda. And this person was like, what?
I this is the first time I'm hearing of this person.
And I was like, we need to put some goddamn respect on Frank

(08:20):
Oz's name. We need to.
His bald head. Well he probably has a shell.
Former death at a funeral. I don't know if that's post 2010
or not. Where?
The fuck do you have this knowledge?
I don't know. Do you have like an iCloud
Drive? Yeah, I also, I do apologize to
Lance because they got us off Frank Oz and they brought us
back to Frank Oz by accident. Thank God's truth there.

(08:44):
My God's truth there, because honestly, I think you and I
probably could do a whole, I would say an hour and a half
long bug as just on the works ofFrank Oz.
I was like, how do you come up with like the difference, the
Miss Piggy voice and Yoda? I do not personal try.
Like there is like. I'm trying to find this
filmography. The difference in the
gravelliness of the Miss Piggy and the Gummy do the Skywalker

(09:10):
like there is a difference with the Frank husband.
It's so subtle. But he does Bert as well, right?
And Bert, he's. He's Ernie, I thought.
I think he's Bert. I think he's Ernie and he's
Oscar Grouch. Right.
Bert and Ernie. What do we do?
Was Oscar like Carol Spinelli? We know a lot about The Muppets
in Sesame Street. Like an incredible man.

(09:31):
I mean, I think those were the most.
No Frank Isisbury, bro. Oh, I'm so sorry.
He's also he's Grover and CookieMonster, right?
Cookie Monster. He kind of has the best
characters. Loki.
And he's Sam the Eagle. Cormit I I I don't know if I
have a Sam the Eagle. I've never tried it before.
It's close. It's in that cadence.
It's not quite right. I think my roof, the dog's

(09:54):
pretty good though, man, Whoa. I've gotten a lot better, but
those are a little bit doctor teeth.
We love them up in here in shelffarmers.
Our so our producer told us thatthat that when we do
impressions, they do it really well.
Yeah. So now we're doing all
impressions for clip for social media every day, every day clip

(10:14):
for social test very well, really well, hey.
Grammy. Now that was fuzzy, but then we
also said it. I'm gonna fuzzy if I said the
piggy line can. I do gonzo.
Gonzo is not bad. That's Marge, homie, do another.
Do another American ultra. American ultra.

(10:35):
So Lisa, see, we're having fun here, and you know what this
movie lacks? Fun.
Fun. Yeah, this is a Stoner romance
comedy spy movie and somehow it's the most boring movie we've
watched for the podcast. They they don't use like they

(10:56):
don't use like weed enough in it.
Yeah, what, like he like what? He hits one person with the bong
maybe? Or does he not even hit anyone
with a ball? First of all, I don't know if
you caught it, but it's like CGIsmoke.
Oh yeah, I did catch that. Which I he's in the tub in the
opening scene. Yeah, it's like digital smoke

(11:16):
coming out of his mouth, which Ifirst kind of caught wind of
when I was listening to the The Social Network commentary with
Fisher. And there's that great scene
with Garfield and ironically Jesse Eisenberg and they're
outside of like the Phoenix cluband they're in the cold and it's
like Boston and Fincher does like 8050 fucking takes.

(11:39):
So they're like standing out there in the cold, quote UN
quote. And there's like this, you can
see their breath in the scene, but it's it's digitally added
like the. I would have thought that it
would just been like, you know, Eisenberg just has a thing that
was smoking. He's been seen to me like a
smoker, and I feel like he does.I don't want to do that.
Like I do not want to smoke likelike fake cigarettes.

(12:01):
Well, Jesse, it's a it's a Stoner comedy.
Like, OK, he's like, OK, well, you can CGI it.
They're like, that's like half our budget.
I will say though, I will say though that this movie has a
budget. Like I was looking at it and I
was kind of like, like they're actually doing some stuff.
Like, you know, like they're blowing things up like it looks.
Yeah, I like the fireworks involved, which we'll get to

(12:21):
later, but directed by Nima nor what's his face, who also did
Project X. Oh, wow, I actually did not.
I didn't do research on the director.
I kind of assume Max Planus. He, he directed it.
I don't know why I. Don't think he's ever really
directed anything. No, he he directed one called me
him her. I think I was like, I like

(12:47):
Andrew in 2015. I really liked Max Landis.
I don't know why. Well, it was like he was a cool
screenwriter guy. Yeah, I guess he probably was
the first type of screenwriter that I like, saw on the things I
liked. And I was like, oh, he's like.
He's like. Yeah, yeah, he's involved.
He's engaging these things. But Project X is a genuinely

(13:10):
funny movie. Really good, yeah, it's. 2012 so
it's right before this and it kind of makes sense where it's
like, oh, that was a great kind of low budget comedy boom, let's
kind of give you an upgrade, give you this Landis script and
you'll make a Stoner comedy. Yeah, and I have I only I would
say I only have not only have praise, but I would I would give

(13:32):
a lot of praise to Neymour because I think this movie, I
think it looks good. Like he's NEMA nor Izada
director. Yeah, like he like, like he is,
he's doing a good job with probably like a low budget film.
Like he's making the stuff look like it has an aesthetic to it
that I think it's like a cool thing for it.
I do think the even though I think the cinematography itself

(13:55):
is actually a little lacking, but the production design and
the wardrobe is really good. I think the fight scenes suck
though, which is kind of a weirdpart of this.
It's a bomber. They're like, it's a bomber, but
they look terrible and like you cannot.
They kind of look like YouTube happens a little.
Yeah, it is funny though, because like, this isn't the
same vein as a. Actually, I think this kind of

(14:18):
works out in a release schedule,but opening this week, nobody
too. It does kind of work in the.
Nobody, Nobody. Sorry that that's in the show.
What? Are you singing?
I'm just doing little TikTok sound.
Nobody. Nobody in.
The first trailer they they usedto Nobody, nobody, nobody.

(14:39):
Oh, that song. Yeah.
Check out the Nobody playlist onthe shell Formers Spotify
account. I.
Think you mentioned this before,but we have like we have.
We have an insane memory for songs used in trailers.
I think we mentioned that last week with the.
In Antman 3 yeah, but nobody tootrailer they use holiday.

(15:03):
That is good. That's a good trailer.
It's a good trailer. It's a great trailer.
I think this was before the era.This is like right after the of
the first John Wick, there wasn't really that vibe of like,
hey, like you're a celebrity andyou sign on for the action
movie. You really have to like to you
really have to like to try for the action.

(15:24):
Like, you know, like Bob Odenkirk, like you know, he
trained like for for a year for nobody one.
I think Eisenberg like rolled out of bed, like he's kind of
and that is the vibe is like, oh, like he's not really in
shape for action. That that's the funny part of
it. But he's like seems like really
like he did like, I feel like inevery shot of like all the
fights. And you can tell it's not just
the Eisenberg. Well, part of the pitch of the

(15:46):
movie is like, it's the story about a Stoner who discovers he
was part of a secret government program and he's actually a
sleeper agent. Kind of like Lucky Barnes,
perhaps? Some could say that, yeah.
And he, it is kind of this mash up between, I think like

(16:07):
Pineapple Express and like The Bourne Identity is how it's kind
of described. Yeah.
But like, Eisenberg is expected to do like, these action scenes.
And in my research, I found thisclip from the Today Show, and
it's Eisenberg and Kristen Stewart and like the Today Show
people. Yeah.
And it's like 480P because it's like YouTube 2015.

(16:29):
And for some reason, I guess NBCcouldn't figure out how to how
to put up HD quality clips. I do have to know, is it Matt
Lauer? No, but I will.
Say. I will say sometimes when I look
back for whatever reason, when Iusually look up the title of the
movie on YouTube and I usually scroll until I see like a today

(16:50):
show clip. And the ones that are pre
20/16/2017 are all Matt Lauer talking to the movie, the movie
stars. He was the guy.
He was the guy. And I think it was really Geist,
who I love. Oh, yeah, Really?
Geist was like, oh, Jesse, like you're doing the action stuff in
this movie. That's kind of a change of pace.
And Eisenberg's pretty funny. He's like, yeah, you know, most

(17:13):
of my movies are, you know, guyscomplaining in rooms, and now I
get to have some fun and do an action movie.
He's quick, he's good. I liked.
Him. I liked him more in this little
press junket snippet from American Ultra then just
recently with the Cousin movie. The pain.

(17:34):
Real pain. I thought him him on that
junket, he was much he was more kind of serious.
Well, yeah, 'cause he was like this time, like, you know, like
I'm the director. So he kind of asked, like,
they'll be like, I'm serious about this movie, 'cause it's an
Oscar contender. And Kieran got his Oscar for
playing himself. Playing himself in the lead role
and he got it for supporting actor category fraud.

(17:55):
I will say real quick, I have AIhave an alternative title based
on the joke you made earlier. OK, it's an American ultra.
They should call it. They should call it the Winter
Stoner. The winter Stoner.
What is that? 'Cause it The Winter Soldier,
'cause he said Bucky Soldier. You got to give me like my

(18:18):
trigger word. I don't know what you're talking
about unless you say. MCUMCU.
Winter Stoner Sam. Also, real quick, do you know
what this movie opened against? I know it was 2015, which is
like the pinnacle of shelf warmer years.
It it maybe is the best year forshelf warmers because it opened
against I would say I would say like 2 shelf warmers too.

(18:39):
What? Was it?
One was a what was a reboot of afranchise that had failed to
launch about like 10 years before I.
Don't understand a word of what you just said.
OK, so when was a reboot? A reboot of a cousin of a son of

(19:01):
a killer in a It was. A reboot of a video game movie
that had failed to launch about a decade before, starring
Timothy Olyphant. Olyphant.
Yeah. And he tried to do it again 10
years later and it failed again.Jesus, tough beat for this.
Do you have any idea? No.
Hitman, Agent 47. No conception of those movies.

(19:25):
We definitely have to cover witha Hitman.
Agent 47, Yeah. Another one is a sequel to a
horror movie that came out threeyears before that. 2012 again.
Yeah, Contra. Nope.
Well, no, no, But this one, the first one, was labeled the
scariest movie of all time. That's fucking every movie,

(19:48):
that's together, that's weapons,that's long legs.
No, but this one like actually like, but like there was a
thing. It was like, oh, like you've
checked the heart rate for the average audience go over
throughout. It's actually tactically like,
you know, the scariest me of of all time.
I was fucking Neil deGrasse Tyson, the fucking nervous.
That's not about him anymore. I don't.
Want to talk about him anymore? He sent us a cease and desist

(20:08):
letter. Yeah, but he was so pompous in
it. Oh my God.
Yeah, he sounded like his whole video where he was like.
Did you know that? Did you know, did you know that
there was 8 billion stars in theGalaxy?
And well, you guys just too well, you guys just aren't
stars, and I am. I'm the I'm a big beautiful
star. He did like the Boogie Nights

(20:30):
and monologue and he whipped outhis Dick and it was really
weird. And it wasn't prosthetic.
And then Living Thing played andI was like, OK, it's kind of
nice. But it was strange because it
was the exact because he was an exact fake Dick that Mark
Wahlberg he wears at the end of Boogie Night.
So we could like tell he. Was just like he.
Wasn't trying to fake it. Yeah, and it was like old at

(20:52):
that point. The movie is like 30 years old.
Yeah, so like he had a grey fig penis.
Yeah, he had the white suit, butgood.
OK, well do you want to guess what the other movie is to open
up against? Sinister Yep, Sinister 2 Ding
Ding Ding Ding Ding. I love Sinister One directed by.
Scott. Derrick.
Yeah, Scott. Scotty Derrickson.

(21:15):
Have you seen the pictures of him on set where he looks?
He looks so much like Ethan Hawke.
Like he just like there are these photos of them on set and
like he made Ethan Hawke in thatmovie like to look like him.
It's like, really? That's funny, I think I got
Scott Derrickson confused with Peyton Reed.
Peyton Reed is the director of Ant Man.

(21:39):
We need to be lobotomized. We're genuinely going down a bad
path. Sam, do you have a plot synopsis
for this movie? So just so we can just just just
so we can like you catch the audience up or do, what do you
do to try to give get up to speed again?
I mean, like we said, you can kind of imagine where it's
going. Basically we open.

(22:03):
It does that thing where it's like opens in the future.
He's like in the interrogation room.
He's beat to shit. He looks so horrible.
He looks scary by the end. He's got like he's burn
prosthetics, like his forehead is like protruding.
He has his long hair in the movie Eisenberg and then we get
like the wig. Right.

(22:23):
He must be, yeah. And then he's.
Like real hair at the end, I don't look.
He looks his real hair would have been like curly and
beautiful. It looks gross in this one.
And he kinda lives in this sleepy town in West Virginia.
He works at a convenience store.And we kind of flashback and we

(22:44):
kind of see the whole movie briefly in like a 32nd like
crazy editing, very 2015, like kind of dated at this point.
And then boom, we we're at the airport and he's there with his
girlfriend, played by Kristen Stewart.
And he's having like a panic attack in the bathroom and he
can't like he has a such this strong anxiety about leaving

(23:04):
town, right? So it's like, oh, it's kind of
weird. Like he doesn't, he feels weird
about leaving this little WV town.
And they're like, they're both stoners.
They live in a house. They smoke.
They watch old cartoons and stuff together.
Sounds kind of awesome actually.They're happy with it, you know,

(23:26):
And she works at, I don't know where she works 'cause you see
her place of business for like one second and it's like a weird
old office and she's there like in the middle of the night.
She works in a bails bail bond place and they're always calling
each other. They have like these old phones
which I feel like phones would looked even more advanced than

(23:46):
the one. 2017 yeah, cause 'causeI've been out since like O8 or
O9 so yeah, it's like 7 years ofiPhones, iPhone 4 or five that
point. Yeah, well, so like, you know,
like they're stores just spend their money on weed.
Yeah. And there's also like this pre,
pre legalization era, Yeah, where it's like there's the
cops, they get pulled over and she's like, are you holding?

(24:08):
Yeah. He's like, he's like, no, like
we were at the airport. Yes, I'm holding.
Like there are jokes, but they're not funny really.
No, it's like. It's like some of the.
Character jokes, like some of the characters responding with
is like funny because they don'tknow it's funny or like that's
just like how they are. I mean, it's hard to compare
'cause this is just like a totaldunk on Max Landis, but a movie

(24:31):
we love and bash. All three of us have actually
watched it together. The Big Lebowski.
Oh, sure. Yeah, which is the pinnacle of
just being, like, incredibly funny, incredibly smart, like an
airtight script shot by Raji Deakins.
Yeah, the Cohens like it is. That's the best just.

(24:52):
So like laugh out loud funny, but also has like, this deep
melancholy throughout. Yeah.
It's just like the like if we think about Big Lebowski for too
long, we will just stop recording and just not not give
American Ultra the time of day and.
Just watch The Big Lebowski, yeah?
But but when you are in that lineage of like Stoner comedy,

(25:16):
like, you kind of have to rise to the occasion.
Well, yeah, 'cause I guess the options are, you know, like you
have a Lebowski or you can do like a Cheech and Chom, which is
like, which is like all gags. We have this which is like a
weird. Yeah, trying to be like.
It's trying to be like an actionmovie.
Yeah, like it like, it is tryingto be like a legit like action
movie. Doesn't really like, doesn't

(25:38):
really like take the time to useup the premise.
Like I said, have them throw weed in somebody's eyes, have
them smash their head with a bong like.
There's not even like it. There's not.
Even Chekhov's bongs. No, there's not a trip sequence,
but I want Chekhov's bong. Chekhov's bong, You know, that
would, yeah, there should have been because there's, there
actually is a bong in the first few scenes and you're like, oh,

(25:59):
that's going to get smashed. I want that bong to come back.
And it is a pretty gruesome movie.
Yeah, it's violent. It's violent.
It's also it does not age well, It's pretty violent towards the
women in the film. Absolutely.
Which is icky to watch today. Yeah, and.
Like these women get punched in the face, they get cut up.

(26:22):
Yeah, He's not killed. He gets shot.
It's like. Yeah, and like, well, like.
It's hard to watch. Like no man gets killed except
Walton Goggins at the end, whichis also the early GOG.
We'll talk about him, but. Goggins.
Goggins he's he's. This is.
This is a rare mystery from Goggins.
Really. Yeah, he's kind of bad at this
ending. I gave him the benefit of the

(26:42):
doubt, but. He starts off good, but he gets
kind of worse throughout. Yeah, but.
One of Walton Goggin's most distinctive features is his
teeth. Yeah, and he gets his fucking
teeth knocked out in the first scene.
Yeah, with him. But it was kind of fun, I
thought. I still got my teeth.
Still got my teeth, yeah, but kind of end up.

(27:05):
Like how does this movie fuckingspiral?
Or how does it? So yeah, so he said so like you
know, he's a Stoner working at giving his store, got his
girlfriend, he smokes weed, can't leave town, doesn't know
why he has these panic attacks. And then I mean the government,
let's say Connie Britton and Tony Hale maybe like 2 great
character actors. I.

(27:26):
Was going to say great characteractors.
They they kind of. They enter the fold.
Yeah. So they kind of inkling that
like, you know, their asset, Jesse Eisenberg, who's a part of
their MK Ultra program, is getting terminated because they
want to like, you know, hide theeverything, clean slate.
So then they send some people out for some.
They're going to blow him up in his car.
He goes out after. He's a run in after, like, you

(27:49):
know, he's a run in with him andConnie Britton and she kind of
like it says the code to activate him.
He doesn't think it works, but he goes out to see the guys in
his car and kills them with a spoon and ramen.
Yeah, so which is a pretty fun scene, but Connie Britton, I
guess, is protective of Mike, Jesse Eisenberg's character and
decides to go to West Virginia, which is not too far from

(28:10):
Langley. Always love, always love Langley
in a movie. And she goes into, like, the 711
or wherever he works, and she says, like this whole pattern of
things, like mumble gibberish words.
And he looks at her and he's like, I don't know, like what
you're saying to me right now. But it doesn't, it doesn't
activate in his brain until he's, I guess, threatened.

(28:33):
And then it's like pupil dilates.
And then he kind of flips his shit.
Yeah, Like you said, it's kind of based off like this MK Ultra
thing, which was what was it like the CIA in the 50s would
conduct experiments. Yeah, it was from the 50s to the
70s they were doing that. Where they would kind of have

(28:56):
these superior agents through mind control, yeah.
It was like mind control, but also it was a lot of like
torture. Like it was a lot of torture for
them to try to get the best possible way.
I mean, it was it was kind of anera where we were like, we don't
know, like what the hell we're doing.
So Wes is like, you know, give these soldiers like a bunch of
LSD and see if it like makes them enlighten or fries their
brains. A lot of times it would just
like, you know, like just. Turn them into vegetables, yeah.

(29:19):
It'd be like, scary. How do we electrocute them
enough that their brains might hit a new level of superiority?
Nope, he's dead. OK, like there's a lot of that
as illegal. I found out that obviously all
roads lead back to the Germans. The letters MK is the English
word mind and the German word for control.
Can you confirm? Bosch.

(29:40):
Yeah, mind control A. Yeah.
I mean, it's, it's, it's absolutely.
It's absolutely. Evil.
Scary. Evil because it's based on the
Nazi experiment. And Ultra refers to the highest
level of security classification.
Yeah, MK Ultra. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, yeah, it's based on the Nazi experiments.
Which is such like a rich and scary idea and it kind of brings
me to my main point about this movie of like.

(30:02):
You don't see. It wasted potential like you
know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, 'cause then.
Yeah, 'cause. Yeah, 'cause Then from there on
to kind of like you close the loop in the synopsis, It's just
kind of the rest of the movie it's him, like, just like, you
know, he's running from the copsgo from place to place killing
people, and then he becomes an agent.
And that's pretty much the rest of the movie.
There's no like, I was kind of like, I don't think he wants to

(30:24):
be an agent. Like, I was very surprised by
that ending that there's like, yeah.
They setting up? Yeah.
And I was like, no, he's just like, be a Stoner and live with
his girlfriend and be happy and he'll be like, fine.
Like he like, he like, like, youknow, like he don't want to kill
people. So the film also stars Topher
Grace. Yeah, who's who's doing?
Something like Acia, He's the. Villain.

(30:47):
Yeah. He's the villain of the peace.
He's the one that's trying to kill everybody and like, you
know, like, get a clean slate, but he's doing it unauthorized.
He's off the books. Topher is somebody that I I do
like a lot. Not good in this.
Not good and he kind of weaponizes these other MK Ultra
victims or agents. Whatever.
Agents. Walton Goggins is 1 as he
mentioned. Walton Goggins, who plays the

(31:09):
character of Laffer. Yeah, who his intro is.
His intro was kind of scary. Yeah.
When he pulls up, he's all in shadow and you see his outline
and that very distinct, like, you know, like Atlanta Goggins,
the chin, the big teeth and the hair.
He did. He did, kind of.
I was like, I was like, oh, Joker fancast, perhaps.

(31:29):
Oh, Joker fancast with the fancast Penguin fancast.
Leguizamo is taking some swings here as Rose.
Yeah, the drug dealer. Yeah, he's, he's just
immediately saying the N word. Immediately says the N word.
And it makes it even better to know that it was Max Landis who
was writing that dialogue. Especially after we heard the

(31:50):
fucking bright dialogue. Yeah, from a few episodes ago.
I. Would love if the people at home
just went onto their Google on Google search devices and just
searched up and searched up an image of Max Landis.
And then just you guys have a picture of the man who wrote the
Latino man who wrote his dialogue of him saying the N
word every other sentence. Just so, just so you have a

(32:12):
whole image of who this guy is. And it's not an entirely
successful performance. No.
It's. I think, I think Leguizamo is,
he's consistently a fantastic performer.
He's he's not good in this. Well, it's like a weird thing
where it's like Leguizamo, Goggins, Topher guys we like.

(32:33):
Guys, we like. Pullman, Pullman, father and
son, but not Sun's not in it, but just a quick shout out to
Bob. He would be good and he's kind
of doing a Bob thing from Thunderbolts in this like he
like he maybe be, he would maybebe more effective than Eisenberg
in this. This is kind of what I wanted to

(32:54):
get into. I don't think Eisenberg is
particularly well cast as Mike Howell, the protagonist here.
No. And I think I came up with a new
segment for the show. Who you would like to see in the
role instead? It's called back to the old
drawing board. Let's reimagine this movie and

(33:17):
make it better. Sure.
So on April 15th, I think 2015 or must have been 20/13/2014, it
was announced that Sharon Stone had been cast in the film in the
Connie Britton role. That's that's good.
But I I think Connie Britton is fine in this.
I don't I don't have an issue. But Sharon Stone would have been
good and Uma Thurman was also going to be that role, and that

(33:40):
also got kind of scheduling issues, whatever.
I think that makes more sense. So if it is like kind of a
parody of action movies, like having like an established
action star like that. I also just wish, I mean kind of
for both Uma and Sharon Stone. I wish they were both like in
more stuff. Sharon Stone and Nobody 2
opening this week. What?
Yeah. You know, this wasn't an issue

(34:03):
initially. This wasn't going to be a tie in
to nobody too. But it works out really well
actually. Also worth noting, this is the
second of third collaborations between Jesse Eisenberg and
Kristen Stewart. They also start together in
Adventureland. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
And do you know this the film they did after this together?
Oh. It's kind of the dark side of

(34:24):
like a Gosling Emma Stone collab.
Yeah, absolutely. Just to like venture, just to
like Ultra, just to like weird. Like, people are probably hard
to be around, like a neurotic, Yeah.
Oh wait, what is the? What is the?
3rd movie they're in together. 2016. 2016 So it's not the
Batman Superman. That red tape start coming 0.

(34:46):
My God, wait, I I have no idea. Woody Allen directed.
Oh, of the Cafe Society, Yeah, Wow.
Oh my God. What a what a slate that is and
treat yourself. Yeah, they have no chemistry in
this. And in the Today interview,
they're like, so, so like Kristen Stewart, Jesse

(35:09):
Hasenberg. What is it about you 2 that just
clicks? What is it about you 2 that just
works on screen? Well, because he's a wife guy
and he's like obsessed with his older wife who's like 5-10 years
older than him and and Kristen Stewart is a lesbian.
So it's like they just have no attraction.
Like they have like 0 chemistry.Like I bet like they're friends

(35:31):
in real life and probably enjoy hanging out.
There's no sense of sexual like,you know the.
Chemistry is poppin and it's they don't even seem like fun
stoners to hang out with. No, he starts crying about a
tree. Yeah, he's like, you not want to
be high around him. They're having like, this
Wayne's World scene where they're both like, sitting on

(35:51):
the car and they're kind of likesmoking, hanging out.
And there's like this car that smashed into a tree in the
distance. And Jesse Eisenberg, like,
starts crying. And he's like, I just think
there's something really beautiful about like how that
car, that car had this whole life of like driving around and
moving and that tree was just there the whole time.

(36:14):
And then that tree stopped, thatbeautiful car.
And then he's like crying. He's like, am I that tree to
you? And that's his only moment of
like, being like a real like Stoner, like, oh, this guy's so
stoned right now because. It's not funny.
Because also because also they're stoners in the way that
that like they in the way they smoke so much that that's their

(36:36):
personality. And I don't know, I don't know,
like that was a conscious choicethey were making.
They don't ever like seem like, oh, look, they're too high to be
in the scene. But to me, I feel like I feel
like it's frustrating because that's the whole premise is
they're action stars, but they're too stoned.
Like that's how do you. It would have been funny.

(36:56):
How do you make this movie and not make that choice?
Like he's an MK Ultra agent who knows how to kill people while
holding a cup of ramen, but he'stoo stoned and he's like
freaking out. I've got some recastings I want
to throw at you. Hit me with them.
These are not real. These are my recastings.
Yeah, you throw this script in the fucking trash.

(37:17):
Yeah. You hire Edgar Wright.
OK. Yeah, absolutely.
Right. And direct it, you get elswit to
shoot it because I was thinking about like is kind of Britain a
Nightcrawler or that's where neighbor sound?
Yes, yes. But kind of give it a nightcrawl
look. Yeah, digital kind of elswit
look. And Hot Fuzz a little more if

(37:37):
you want to do right, because it's because it's kind of like a
parody. Then I think you cast either
Garfield in kind of a Silver Lake pre Silver Lake, yes.
And then alternatively, Daniel Radcliffe, who was in Victor
Frankenstein as kind of like a squirrely bug eyed, like Stoner.

(38:00):
I like Kristen Stewart for the most part, but I was looking at
like, a list of actresses from the era, that era.
And I was thinking about like, either Scherzer Ronan, who's
sneakily funny, yeah, even though she's in all this
dramatic stuff. Yeah.
And Alicia Vikander, who again, I just wish was in more things
because I really like her. But where has she been?

(38:24):
And could she have been in American Ultra?
Isn't she married to Fassbender?Yeah.
Yeah, so that's what she's probably doing, dealing,
dealing, whatever that guy's doing.
Racing cars or something? Didn't he like leave acting to
go race? Yeah, I I think he left.
I think he left acting to becomethe master of magnetism.

(38:44):
I recently saw an image that's like, I heard Magneto in Marvel
Rivals. Yeah.
And I was like, who is that guy?My buddy was like, that's
Magneto. And I was like, whoa all.
Right. Who else are you recasting?
That was kind of it. Oh, oh, oh, wait, Oh really?
You're only recasting those two.I think the main 2 roles, Yeah,

(39:05):
I guess you're right. Whatever the else the movie
would be. Yeah, I'm not.
I'm not writing this new script for American.
Well, well, I am, and I want more bombs.
I want more weed jokes. I want more people like too high
to function. Or even a movie like we
mentioned, Pineapple Express, which is just 10 times funnier.
10 times funnier. Cause and also has that action
edge. Also also here's the issue with

(39:27):
Eisenberg, who I think is a great actor.
I really like him, but it's so good in Zombieland because he's
the only one who's not a badass.Yeah.
So you either have to lean into this guy's insane and it looks
like he's in every shot and he'sdoing all the fighting himself
because that's from the spectacle of it.
Or, like I said, make it so he'sso inept and like, he's so

(39:47):
stoned, having a panic attack, but he's still doing these
things. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But he is kind of like a Stoner.The one part I thought was kind
of goofy. Again, not laugh out loud, but I
thought it was kind of funny. Was his Apollo Ape thing.
Oh yeah, where he's like has this original character named
Apollo Ape. Yeah.
And he's like calling his girlfriend at work and he's

(40:10):
like, babe, like I just come. I just came up with this new
idea for Apollo Ape. Like I can't wait to tell you
about it. And she's like, Oh my God, like.
He should do that, yeah. Shouldn't be ACIA agent?
Like it was so and that kind of,it kind of loses the thread
eventually. But like, I think that's kind of
funny. Like he's writing this story and
has these cartoon drawings of anape all over the house.

(40:32):
Yeah. And I, I, I will say, I feel
like we don't get a lot of plot lines anymore.
That about us, like a, that about like I'm ACI agent and I'm
conflicted about my decision. So I kind of, I enjoy seeing the
Tony Hale arc as like the guys at the desk and like, he has to
help out his old boss, but he's conflicted or he's going to get
arrested for it. I thought this was a very like

(40:52):
2000 tens like you know like plot line.
Well, it's weird because in the first scene with Tony Hale, he's
like coming on to Connie Brittona little.
Yeah, he's warning for her. But then the next scene, he's
what I assumed had that boyfriend at home with a dog.
Yeah. And I was like, wait, do you
have the rewrite you think? Yeah, I was like, wait, what is
this? They're like, oh wait, he's kind
of flirty in this scene. Like he's gay.

(41:16):
So we're not like totally hot onthis movie, but there are a few
good scenes. Yeah, I like the jail.
I just had this right down the jailbreak scene.
Yeah, where like, you know, he kills these two guys up front of
his job. So he's arrested, obviously, and
he's held in the sheriff's station.
And then here comes the Goggins.Or should we talk about that
scene first? His first kill?

(41:37):
Yeah. I mean, yeah.
I mean, I mean, like, you know, we covered it briefly, but.
These people, these pupil dilates and he just fucking
kills these guys and shoots one of them, right?
He like grabs the gun like Bang Bang like stabs a guy with a
fork. He's a great reaction to that
scene. Like he's like a panic attack.
And I'm like, OK, yes, this is this is this is like kind of

(41:58):
humor I want. From it, then he gets locked up.
Locked up. And then he it's also it's such
a, it's such a lazy thing of screen writing, I think, where
instead of like, you know, like just, instead of just trying to
give a full explanation, like for what happened.
Well, the character that just doesn't really explain himself.

(42:19):
So then the cop come up being like, well, like I need you.
I need you to give me like the oh, like buddy, I need to give
me the truth. Like tell me this didn't happen.
Instead of being like, oh, like these two guys, like we're
trying to do something to my carand I confronted them and
something happened. I don't know, but I killed them
in self-defense. He's just kind of like, I don't
know what happened. And the cops like, oh, well, OK,
we're not talking. I can't help you.

(42:41):
I'm like have them explain and have the cop be like I know
you're a Stoner and you're a loser.
I can't help because I don't believe you did.
That yeah, that would have been a better way to kind of frame
his character, but they don't doit.
No Max Landis, Boo. Max Landis.

(43:01):
Bad Max Landis bad. It's breaking news.
We're just realizing. This, yeah, but then two agents
came in. Yeah, then he gets put back in
his cell and then laugher goggins and some woman sleeper
agent. Yeah, I've.
Never seen an actress before. This is an interesting year for
Goggins. This is the end of Justified,

(43:23):
which was on for like 6 seasons and this is the year he kind of
had his breakout ring a thing 'cause he just wrapped up the
Sons of Anarchy. He just wrapped up like
Justified. He's he's about to go to the
he's about to, he's about to go to vice principals and kind of
enter like his Dana McBride era where he starts to collab with
him and I believe the gemstones too.

(43:45):
They're good together. And he's in Hateful 8 this year,
which is kind of his breakout role.
That is, I think the first time I saw him because I wasn't
dialed into those shows. And he's, I feel like everybody
is not like just locked in the same tone.
I think the note from the director was like, you can go
big. So I think Goggins is going big
and it works. Sometimes doesn't work.

(44:05):
Stanford, Topher, everybody's doing this thing with this.
Like I'm going to play the caricature.
They're like radio hyper and go big and be like kind of like
just have a one, no performance.And then like it would work.
It worked in a movie that was more comedic, I feel like, but
it's just not that comedic. So when Goggins is like going so
insane that he just feels he he was kind of out of place and

(44:26):
like just grounded story. And then it gets boring.
It gets boring. Like the first, like what we've
just described, is kind of the most interesting part of the
movie. And then at the midpoint, it's
revealed that Kristen Stewart is.
His handler. Is his handler and she's been
part of this. He's been like ACIA operative
the whole time. Yeah.
And then I completely check out and it's like OK.
'Cause it's like a non issue, like, you know, like he's upset,

(44:49):
but it's not that like, you know, she ever was like, like,
it's just the fact that like, you know, like she's always
loved them. Yeah.
So you don't ever have to question like, oh, like, you
know, like what? She just trying to use him like,
like what's like, what's her goal here?
She's like, no, I loved you the whole time, right.
And there's not really an instant conflict.
Like you like he's mad for a little bit, but then like she's
in danger and she gets all like attacked and beat up.

(45:11):
So he's just going to go right back into, well, well, she's my
girlfriend. I'm going to protect her.
And also you don't get like you also don't get why he's so good.
No, like you don't spend enough time with him in this town.
Like I I like this. I like this weird town and I
like to see like he. Can't leave.
Yeah, but he's just kind of like, he's just a loser.

(45:34):
You don't really get so like like, so like.
Yeah, she's like, I love you. You're the strongest person I
know. Yeah, I'm like.
OK, well, I'm like, OK, yeah. Like, OK.
Well, you, like, show him, like,doing the Apollo ape stuff and
live in this town and show theirlife together of like, how he
has managed to convince her to fall in love with him because
you don't get. It's just kind of like, OK,
they're in love. She's an Asian, but she loves
them and that's all. It completely loses me in the

(45:57):
back half and it kind of again, there's like, again, poorly shot
action scenes that keep you interested, sort of some gore
that kind of works. His his end fight like the
hidden Goggins is just is the same beat over and over can have
goggins like walking around the store being like you're kind of
scaring me. Yeah, there's a the climactic

(46:20):
fight is in a supermarket. And it's the same beat over can
have goggins like holding a gun like, you know, like and trying
to find them and Eisenberg just pops out of an aisle and hits
them and the gun falls and then they literally that beat happens
two or three times and I'm like just have like just have a long
fight scene and like throw cans at each other and like there's
a. Shopping cart earlier I did like

(46:41):
when Eisenberg was kind of just grabbing shit around the store
and throwing it. But there's a scene earlier
where Eisenberg like grabs a a kettlebell or whatever they're
called. Oh yeah, you'd know more than
me, dumbbell. Kettlebell, kettlebell,
kettlebell, Yeah. Grabs A kettlebell, fucking
busts Goggins head open. What it it's like off frame but

(47:03):
he's like like slamming this weight down.
There's blood splurting up out of frame and then he's fine.
Like I thought, oh, he's dead like.
He doesn't do the Goggins, I don't think.
Who was he? I think he's into like a random
soldier. He's murders.
OK, how is he alive after that? No, yeah, no, no, like no, like

(47:24):
he absolutely kills that random soldier, not Goggins.
Because maybe the issue of this movie is there is like there are
like there are like, you know more the agents, but nobody
else. They really get identified
besides Laugher. Yeah, Laugher.
An Angel with their. Name is maybe.
Yeah, whoever else, we'll be right back after this quick

(47:46):
break. Everyone.
So we are at shelf form that yougot to do an interview this week
with Jodie Kermit who was a partof the MK Ultra experiments.
So our very own Sam Fenkel, talkto him and have a little
interview about about his whole experience.
So let's go to that now. Jodie, welcome to the show.

(48:07):
Thank you for having me, Sam. I'm sorry, do you need some
water? Your throat seems a little like
I have a little bit of a frog. This is what you.
Sound like at 75 years old when your whole life goes up in
flames in your 30s I what 17 doses of LSD one hour does to

(48:28):
you Sam? Jesus Christ, I actually was
curious to talk to you about that.
I I understand you were part of the MK Ultra experiments.
Yeah, as I as I could describe it for your movie loving
audience. I got reversed American Ultra.
I used to be a big buff guy, hotgirlfriend who I didn't want to
marry. I lived in East Virginia.

(48:50):
I was a bodybuilder. They gave me so much LSD that I
shrank and shriveled. My arms are like freezer green
beans now. Oh.
My God, Jody, I'm so sorry. You don't know the kind of
nightmares I have. I have nightmares where I wake
up and I'm pissing. I'm pissing and shitting Sam.
Wait, this is the dream where you wake up and you're pissing

(49:11):
and shitting? I'm.
Pissing and shitting and the dream and it carries over to
real life. Oh my God.
Changing my bed sheets every single night.
Every single night here she was too.
Wasn't even that bad. They would send me the music
festivals, just have me do a just do 18 tabs of LSD in 30
seconds. And then I would go out and
dance to the Grateful Dead for 18 hours.

(49:33):
And I never slept, Sam. And that results in me sounding
like this and pooping. Pooping so much that I can't
wipe. So is that why the CIA was
interested in you in the first place?
I was, I was such a badass that they wanted to make me an
Eisenberg type. They wanted to turn me from a
hero to a 0. That was the plan.
They wanted to test it out firstif they could turn a 0 to a

(49:55):
hero. If they could turn a hero.
To a 0. They could break you down.
Break me down. Turn my arms to ramen noodles,
Sam. OK.
Those dingbats, those dingbats in the CIA, those pencil pushers
turn me into what I am today. I'm I'm 85 lbs Sam.
We're doing this over Zoom. I actually can't quite tell how

(50:15):
what your size is or your stature.
I didn't want to ask how. Many 5 lbs five foot 2 now.
So did you like? Did you like the movie?
Have I mentioned that I have no hand eye coordination?
No. You said I killed 8 men outside
with Ross dress for less, but myhands were so good and they're
registered as lethal weapons of the cops.
They just, they let me walk awaywith it.

(50:36):
Wow, now I can't even wipe Sam, I tell you that.
Oh, I think I, I think I'm beginning to understand the
situation. You, you're so scrawny that you
wake up in your own, in my own field, and you just can't do
anything. I can't.
Wipe. I let it build up until somebody
asked me why do you smell that bad?

(50:57):
And I asked him to help me. I don't know what we were
looking to get out of this interview here at Shell Former
I. Want people to know that they
they like Freed my mind so much that now my couch talks to me
and he's got some good things tosay your couch.
I enjoy our conversations. My couch talks to me.
They open my third eye, Sam. They open my third eye and and

(51:17):
they loosen my butt hole. Oh.
My God, man. I I did write a poem about my
experience. I would love, I think our
viewers, our listeners would also love to hear this.
You want to mind? No, of course not.
OK, this is called the Freer Mind before Mr. Calculator from
the CIA does it for you. The government is in crisis and

(51:42):
I'm still not wiping. I released my brown happens
every time I leave town. LSD sent me free.
I love my couch. I kiss.
Somebody talks to me. Wait, wait, you're in a romantic
relationship with the couch? I don't mean to interrupt.
I I wouldn't say it's a friends with benefits type scenario.

(52:02):
OK, OK. I'm sorry.
Well, thank you again for joining us.
Thank you for giving me this platform.
I'm sure we'll all be looking for more poetry from you.
I'm going to be at the I'm with the Ross the Dress for Less
every Wednesday night, performing from 8:00 to 8:30.
OK, great. And.
I think I'm thinking I'm going to start a podcast after this,

(52:24):
such after after a positive experience on this one.
I'm not sure how Andrew actuallyfound your contact info, but
yeah, I mean, I'm glad you're keeping busy.
He goes to the raw stress for less to shop and I run into him
there. I work there part time but I
can't really shelve anything. Sometimes it's laying on the
ground. I'm so weak.
Until somebody asked me where the bathroom is.

(52:45):
So they find you on the floor and you're already half soiled.
I'm face down, shit in my butt and they asked me where the
bathroom is and I point and I get 15 an hour to do that
because I'm pretty much considered a vet all.
Right, man, you're bumming me out, so we're going to let you
go. That was Jody Kerman, everybody.

(53:09):
Sam, what the What the hell was that, man?
I don't know, he kind of scared me.
He seemed so normal over the phone really.
He didn't message swelling his pants, he didn't, he didn't say
anything. He just said he didn't culture
for a couple years and turned out fine.
I do feel like maybe in the future we should vet these guys
a little bit better. I mean, I mean like he talked to

(53:31):
her producer Bash too, and Bash and how much you get in lunch
next week. So I feel like we should try to.
I'm just warn Bash because this guy is insane.
I mean, when I talked to Bash, even after the interview, he was
like, I love that guy. I fucking love that guy and I
was like we are never having Jodi Karma back on the show.
We should tell Bash that I we should tell him.

(53:51):
I think we should tell him that MP Ultra does not stand for
Mortal Kombat. That's what he thought, and he
saw the trailer with fucking Urban.
And Bash. And Bash loves the boys.
And he loves them as Bones in Star Trek, he thought does.
You might think he's talking to Karl Urban.
Kind of sounds the same actually.
He's doing a bit of Billy Butcher thing.

(54:12):
Oh my God, that. Oh my God.
OK, that makes a lot of sense. And we'll address this off,
Mike. We're sorry everyone, but we're
still going to air it. Yeah, we'll still air it.
We'll still air. It's a good piece.
It's a good piece. It's journalism.
It's. Going to go viral.
Yeah. It is interesting to think about
to real quick, just like what kind of like where these actors

(54:34):
kind of like you like were in their careers And for the
Eisenberg, like, what was he doing in the mid 2000s?
He was just doing like, like nowyou see me too.
He was intense. It was kind of this weird thing
where like, he's not this traditional movie star, but he
is a name. He's a name.
He's bankable in some ways. He's in BBS.

(54:54):
Yeah, now you see me as 2013, Zombieland 09, Social Network
2010, like he's in, you know, stuff.
And then BBS is shortly after this.
Yeah, and that kind of hurts himA.
Little bit terrible. Wig Yeah, honestly, I think it
might be the same way. Yeah, they just dyed it.
Yeah. And same for Kristen Stewart

(55:16):
because this was kind of, this was right when people were like,
she's actually a good actress and people were being like,
like, you know, harsh to her. But she's not really fully had a
rebound in the way that Robert Pattinson has where everyone's
like, oh, he like he's a fantastic actor.
Like she's kind of like somewhere in the middle or
people don't. People don't really often like I
feel like I know she's not that famous.

(55:36):
Anymore, I think she's definitely had a a comeback in a
way that in a similar way as Pattinson.
Definitely more than freaking Lautner.
Sure, he's in nothing, but like love lines, dating is big.
Like what she. Has happiest season is kind of
popular Spencer. I like happiest season.

(55:57):
Crimes of the future. Oh yeah, I I've not seen crowds
feature yet. So she's out there, but
Pattinson has definitely been more present.
Yeah, playing one of the most popular superheroes.
I saw she's in Charlie's Angels,right?
Is that the the semi new one? Yeah, and she's in like.
Yeah, yeah, Charlie. She's in like, underwater.

(56:18):
Yeah, that movie. Is that a show?
Former, I think it's 2020 I think, which I think also was
ridden by Max Landis I think too.
I don't. I don't think so.
I think he wrote the first draftand then he got his names, like,
taken off because all the stuff came out maybe.
Oh, interesting. Something like that, yeah.
Is Christmas store his muse? I think his muse is probably

(56:43):
Chris Hardwick. So why don't do a deep dive in
that guy? Maybe.
Where has he been he? Must be in some shell form that
we'll talk about in the future. Hardwick, he's in Lego Ninjago.
I remember that 'cause that was like one of the last things he
was in before we got cancelled, I feel like.
Yeah, maybe we'll do Lego Ninjago.
Let us know if I want to do LegoNinjago.

(57:05):
I think, I think we also threatened this, the non-stop
episode. We threatened.
We did threaten the whole Lego series, if I remember.
You wanna hear my slate? Would love to.
So I'm calling this Slate A Country Under the Influence.
So these are three films that I think are better, much, much

(57:27):
better than American Ultra, but kind of riffing on similar
things. So first up, 1984's Repo Man.
Awesome movie. Fucking movie, kind of a stone,
definitely a Stoner movie. And similarly has like this
slacker character who's kind of the protagonist, who's kind of

(57:50):
faced with this kind of extraordinary circumstance and
kind of has to navigate this weird kind of 80s Los Angeles.
It's also it is like a genre piece, but like it's funny and
weird. Like in a way this one is just
not. Yeah, very unique.
The parents are stoners in this movie, which I love.
Yeah. And they're basically just these

(58:11):
grown up baby boomers, which is exactly what the baby boomers
are like. I love this lens of the, you
know, the parents grown up, the parents who were in the 60s kind
of out there on the front lines.And now they're older, they're
just like smoking at home watching TV.
And that's just like, that's what that's how you have to
represent like this hazy Stoner culture.

(58:35):
I thought about 10 years later. Clerks, Kevin Smith.
Yeah, which I just rewatched recently on the big screen,
which I loved. And I think it's Kevin Smith has
had kind of a downslide just as a creative, you know, filmmaker.
First like 5 are genuinely really good movies.

(58:56):
Clerk's Dogma, The Mall Rats. Chasing Amy.
Those are the four. Yeah.
And then like James on Bob, is it all right?
Like it's already in the studio I.
Think he does Clerk's mall rats.Dogma.
Dogma. Silent, silent Amy.
What the fuck? Silent Bob and Amy.

(59:17):
But that is that kind of indie 90s Sundance era completely
filled with slackers and Drifters.
But very even though the acting might not be the best in Clerks
like, it's still very genuine and handcrafted in a cool way
and also kind of a stonery type thing.

(59:37):
And that's almost about the Gen.X the more in a way Repo Man is,
but also Gen. X of like kind of like Reality
Bites or Linklater Slacker, likein that same vein.
And then the last film I have here is 1994's Natural Born
Killer. Absolutely, yeah.

(59:58):
Which? Has this kind of Oliver Stone
directed? Tarantino wrote the script.
And like, you know, like we got here from Landis and the other
guy really is a Tarantino and Oliver Stone vibe.
I mean, yeah, you have Oliver Stone directing, Tarantino
writing it, Robert Richardson shooting it, who is one of the
best DPS. And it's weird because

(01:00:20):
Tarantino, I don't think loves this movie.
No, he doesn't. But Tarantino goes on to work
with Richardson in all his late era.
All the best stuff he's shot is,you know, Django, Once Upon a
Time in Hollywood, Hateful 8, Like that's all Richardson, but
for the longest time he was Oliver Stone's DP.

(01:00:40):
So it's called making good movies.
But this movie kind of has thosetwo lovers who are kind of
crazy, genuinely crazy in Natural Porn Killers.
And their influence is more fromthe television, but it does have
this also kind of hazy, crazy drug induced vibe.

(01:01:03):
It's the style of that movie is just done incredibly well
compared to American Ultra, which feels like it's kind of
like trying to be it, but never really fully owns it in the way
that Natural One Killers does. Also, Natural One Killers shot
on film, like I said, but all ofyour stones run.
I just wanted to briefly touch on.

(01:01:24):
Sure. Yeah, go ahead.
He wins best director and best picture in 86 with Platoon.
Would you like the peak of anybody's career?
Yeah. Then he does Wall Street.
He's young, too. He's young and I think his
memoir is all about like his youth into I think the book ends
with him winning those two Oscars.

(01:01:47):
Then he does Wall Street talk radio, born on the 4th of July,
The Doors, JFK, Natural Born Killers and kind of cop caps it
off with Nixon just like. Wow.
Like even though some of those movies aren't fully successful,
like genuinely a rock star. Run, Yeah.

(01:02:07):
And that's not what American Ultra is.
But check out those three films if you want to watch good
movies. I would also throw in the movie
like go from what, 99? Doug.
Lyon yeah. Doug Lyman film.
I also think that kind of fits this vibe and aesthetic, too.
And so, Sam, let's say you're a Stoner working at a convenience

(01:02:31):
store in West Virginia, OK? It's hard for me to imagine.
Can you picture that? Picture that for me?
Let's say somebody comes into your store.
Try saying what's your words? That you and you think they're
song lyrics. Yeah.
And they say take American Ultraoff the shelf and revise it.

(01:02:51):
And I give another shot please. Would you kill a bunch of people
and smoke weed with your girlfriend and watch American
Ultra? Or would you would you rather go
back to living a life of a simple life, or get that
convenient store and never and never and never watch American

(01:03:12):
Ultra? I have to go with the ladder.
I'd like I said there's other movies you could watch that
tickle the screen the same itch.This movie does not do that.
I would take some acid, some MK and wipe my memory of ever
watching this movie. Yeah, I what?

(01:03:34):
About you, maybe I'll pose you aquestion.
Sure. Sure, go ahead.
OK, either you help poor Jody Kermit off the fucking ground
covered in his own shit and piss.
Yeah, and it's you smell it, youfeel it.
It's everywhere. It's inescapable.
It's in my fingernails. It's in.
It's in your fingernails. Jodie is messy, dude.

(01:03:56):
Or he take American Ultra off the shelf and watch it.
I think I'm going to leave a Jodie a face down inside that
Ross dress for less and I am I am going to leave it on the
shelf. And yeah, I mean, look, I, I, I
own this movie on Blu-ray, so this legitimately is the shelf

(01:04:18):
former for me. Why are we?
Why are you only saying this now?
Kind of for the show. I kind of forgot that I owned a
Blu-ray. What?
The fuck? But I watched this like once or
twice when it came out and I liked it a lot more when I was a
kid. I like, I think I mentioned that
I was a big fan of Max like thiswhen I was 14 because of the
stuff on screen Junkies. This is just bad.

(01:04:39):
And I was like, what? Are they?
What are they say today? No sauce.
No sauce. I was into it for the first act
like we said, and then I was so bored.
I was like, these actions are sobad, so boring.
I do not care about these characters.
I was most invested in Tony Hales arc, which was so strange
to me. So I'm leaving on the shelf and
I'm I'm going to kill it with I'm going to kill the spoon and

(01:05:00):
a cup of ramen, I guess. Hell yeah.
Yeah, until next time. Till next time, I'm Andrew and.
I'm Sam. Boy, thank you for listening to
Shelf Warmers. New episodes drop every
Wednesday. You can follow us on social
media at Shelf Warmers dot Podcast where we can send us

(01:05:21):
movies to take off the shelf forfuture episodes.