October 26, 2025 • 28 mins
What if the problem isn’t that you’re broken, but that you’ve been performing “fine” for too long?
In this episode, I’m walking you through the honesty method, a raw, real look at how I survived emotional exhaustion, burnout and trauma recovery without losing my mind (again). This isn’t about toxic positivity or pushing through. It’s about creating space for your nervous system to exhale.
You’ll hear how I stopped performing resilience and started creating permission-based scaffolding, not just for myself, but for every woman silently carrying the mental load. This one’s for the women managing ADHD, PTSD, motherhood, and the kind of survival mode no one claps for.
If you’re craving women’s mental health support, this one will land hard, in the best way.
Want a space to stop performing and start offloading? Come join The Messy Middle, it’s our free community for women who are tired of pretending they’re fine.
In this episode we cover:
- What is the Honesty Method and why it works for women's mental health
- Why self-help often fails women with ADHD, PTSD or chronic overwhelm
- Performing resilience vs. resting your nervous system
- How The Messy Middle creates community-led mental health support
- Using language to reduce shame (ADHD, trauma, anxiety, motherhood)
- The Chaos Letters as storytelling for trauma healing and connection
- What witnessing looks like for women who are exhausted and masking
- The role of AI Pocket Bestie in mental health self-support
- Turning tools into daily mental health scaffolding
- “Permission to Be Human” offer for lived experience-based support
Resources and links mentioned in this episode:
- The Messy Middle – free community for offloading
- The Chaos Letters – sign up for raw mental health reflections
- Invictus Apothecary (discount code: SHMFAM)
- Connect with Corrina on Instagram at @sheshonestlymental
- sheshonestlymental.com.au
- The Messy Middle – free community for offloading
- The Chaos Letters – sign up for raw mental health reflections
- Instagram (co-working): @hausofcollab
- Lifeline: 13 11 14
- Beyond Blue: 1300 22 4636
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker (00:01):
Welcome to She's Honestly Mental, a podcast for
women who are done pretendingthey're fine when they're
falling apart on the inside.
I'm your host, Karina Robinson,ADHD Brain, Medicated Mind, and
proud mental health hospitalalumni.
Still here, still showing upsomehow.
This is the space for thefillers, the fixers, and the
(00:24):
ones who carry it all and stillwonder if it's enough.
We talk about the chaos, theconnection, and everything in
between because silence nearlykilled me, and these
conversations save lives.
Alright, cacao in hand,headphones on, chaos
semi-contained.
Let's get honestly mental.
Welcome to episode seven.
(00:47):
I am freaking excited.
You know that feeling when youfinally stop pretending?
When your body catches up toyour truth and you realize
you've been holding your breathfor years.
Yeah.
(01:10):
That's where this all started.
I didn't really build she'shonestly mental.
It really was this thing thatjust kind of came about because
I really enjoy.
Well, I find something that'sreally therapeutic is sharing my
story has been a reallytherapeutic way for me to be
(01:33):
able to process what I've beenthrough.
In particular, because I havefound other people that have
been through similar situationsand similar things, and they've
been able to really support mebecause we've both we've all
talked about our livedexperience.
I've spent decades being thecapable one, the one that's been
(01:54):
able to hold it all together,the one that looks like she's
got her life together.
And that really worked until itdidn't anymore.
And here's the wild thing.
The moment that I stoppedtrying to be fine, my life
didn't actually fall apart.
It actually started to makesense.
(02:16):
So today I want to walk youthrough what saved me.
It's not a system, it's notself-help.
One day I'm actually going todo a real, like a video where I
burn a self-help book because Ihate self-help books.
Love me a good memoir.
I love something where someonecan talk about something that
(02:37):
has really helped them throughtheir life just by sharing their
story.
I hope one day that I can writemy own memoir and be able to
help people through thatconnecting.
I find storytelling is really,really important.
So there's something that I'vebuilt or that I'm building or
(02:59):
that I'm sharing.
And really, it's the way thatI've been able to find my way
through the mess.
And I'm calling it the honestymethod.
It's not about fixing yourself,it's all about giving yourself
permission to be human.
Okay, picture this.
Well, not picture this, becausethis is exactly, you know, we
(03:19):
live in a world where women aretold to be resilient.
Resilience is everything, youknow.
You're so resilient.
Kids bounce back, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah.
It's a performance.
It's a mask that we put on tocope through the days.
It's a smile through themeetings when you're silently
(03:40):
drowning.
It's the dread of another task,another thing that you've got
to do, another P and C bakestall, another scholastic book
fair, another volunteercommitment.
Stay grateful, stay productive,stay pretty, stay polite.
And when we break, it's afailure.
(04:01):
Except really it's not afailure, it's a sign that we've
been carrying too much stuff.
And then the world goes, well,Karina, it's your fault for
carrying all of those things.
You chose to do it all.
In comes flying, the I don'teven know, is self-deprecation?
I don't know.
(04:21):
It's that negative self-talk isbasically what it is.
It comes flying in and it'slike, you're an idiot! You're a
dumbass.
You did all of these things.
And imagine if we were able toactually change that narrative.
What if it's not a personalfailure?
I know that we were never meantto carry this much alone.
(04:42):
Our brains are not broken.
And we're just human in a worldthat keeps asking you to be a
machine.
So, drummer will please.
This is where permission to behuman was born.
I've said this for years.
We're so focused on doing allof the things that we have
(05:05):
forgotten that we are actuallyhuman beings.
We focus so much on the doinginstead of being actually
sitting in the moments, sittingin gratitude, sitting in our
emotions, sitting in ourfeelings because we're so busy
with the doing, our to-do list.
It's heavy, it's hard.
(05:27):
I realized that we don't needmore motivation because
motivation is like a badboyfriend.
It never turns up when you needit to.
We need more permission.
Permission to stop, permissionto say no, permission to not be
okay today, permission to loseyour shit, permission to scream,
permission to go for a walk,permission to get a massage,
(05:52):
permission to do whatever it isthe fuck that you want to do
just to be, to be a human being.
And that's what this episodeis: a deep dive into each step
of the honesty method.
It's a scaffolding that's heldme, and now it's what I teach
inside the work.
I feel like a flog saying that.
(06:13):
It's now what I teach insidethe work.
But I honestly believe that thereason I have been through all
of this is because I have thecapacity and the capability, aka
verbal diarrhea, that I can'thelp but share all of these
amazing things.
Well, they're not amazing.
It's just life skills.
I've done lots of differentcourses, I've done lots of
(06:33):
therapy.
I feel like I've tried nearlyeverything.
And these are the things thatI've found that have been able
to help me get through theday-to-day of life being a
woman, being a mom.
So space is where everythingbegins.
Depends on what your beliefsare, you know, whether it's the
Big Bang or whatnot.
(06:54):
No, it's not really about that.
That's not the kind of space.
It's not glamorous.
It's usually the bathroom flooror in the shower, or those two
minutes where you're trying tohave a poo in silence.
It's a moment when you'recrying in the car and you're
saying, I just can't do itanymore.
Before you can speak or heal oreven hope, you have to land
(07:18):
somewhere safe enough to stopperforming.
And this is the space that Ispeak of.
For me, that was after mysecond hospital stay.
When I sat in my car outsidethe house, handshaking and
realizing I didn't know how towalk back in.
And sometimes for me, it'sactually sitting in the car doom
scrolling, and you just goingfrom one thing of being a mom or
(07:42):
dropping the kids off at schoolor coming home from work, and
then you're needing to thenreintegrate and go back into
whatever the next performance isthat you need to be doing.
Space isn't about escaping,it's about an exhale.
It's about the first quietbreath when you stop pretending
to cope.
And that's why I built themessy middle: a free space for
(08:06):
women to offload, for women toland softly, to vent, to ask for
advice, or just be witnessed.
It's not a place for fixing,and it's definitely not a home
for toxic positivity.
It's just air.
Sometimes healing doesn't startwith a plan, and it starts with
someone saying, Hey, I'm here.
(08:26):
You can breathe.
And that space.
For me with the messy middle,what I wanted was a space where
you preface what you're about topost, and you preface what
you're about to post in a wayof, hey, I'm just venting
because my husband's reallypissed me off, and I'm so sick
(08:48):
of his attitude.
For well knowing that yourhusband's attitude's probably
because you've been a reallyshitty hormonal bitch.
Or he said something that isactually true, and you just want
to smack him in the face.
I don't know.
But it's those vents, you'relike, the fucking kids like
(09:10):
yesterday.
unknown (09:11):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker (09:13):
We're toilet training with Ruben, and he came in to me
and he's like, Mum, I've done apoo.
And I'm like, Great, that's sofantastic.
You could have done the poo inthe toilet.
And while I'm laying on my bedreading my book, side note,
currently reading Mad Mabel bySally Hepworth.
So good.
I hear him in the toilet, andevery parent's worst nightmare
(09:37):
is a kid and shit.
And he's gone into the toilet,he's pulled his nappy off, he
has pulled his pants down, andhe's climbed onto the toilet
whilst putting his little pottystool thing on there.
And I'm so proud.
He actually managed to do itwithout getting shit everywhere.
But, you know, in thosemoments, sometimes you just want
(10:01):
to be like, for fuck's sake, Iwas just sitting down, trying to
read a book, trying to takesome time out for me, and the
kids chat and then decided to goand deal with it himself.
And it is definitely a momentwhere you should be really
grateful, but you just need thatsecond.
And so if I was to share thiswithin the messy middle, I would
(10:23):
be posting, hashtag this is avent.
My two-year-old who on toilettraining just decided he would
go and take himself to thetoilet, and there's fucking shit
everywhere.
Thankfully there wasn't.
And so then what happens isthis then allows the person who
reads the post to go, oh, she'sjust venting.
(10:45):
She's not actually asking foradvice.
She's just needing to get itoff her chest.
So it's giving that protectivespace to the person that's
posting, knowing that they'renot going to get that
responsive, oh my gosh, well, ifyou have just XYZ or blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah.
And you think sometimes whenpeople do that, you're like,
fuck off.
(11:05):
Like, actually shut your mouth.
I don't need you to be tellingme how to perform right now.
And so it just saves thatspace.
The other thing would be if youwere to use hashtag advice.
You are actually asking foradvice around this.
I really need help with toilettraining my two and a
(11:25):
half-year-old.
We can't get poos happening inthe toilet.
We can get we's, but we can'tget poos.
And that's where that toolwould come in handy because the
person posting is saying, I'masking for advice.
And then the people respondingknow that they're asking for
advice.
So it creates that really safeenvironment to be able to ask
(11:46):
for those things.
I kind of use it as this bit ofan offload checklist.
Preface what you're saying in asafe place.
And that way it's alsoprotecting the person that's
responding.
I don't know.
I think it's pretty cool.
And I'm like, oh, the messymiddle, it's this free space for
(12:06):
women to land softly.
But at the moment, it's more ofa hey, this is what I'm doing.
Just want you guys to be herefor the ride.
And hopefully we can get a bitof a momentum happening in
there.
This is me just doing stuffbecause I'm thinking, if I don't
give it a crack, if I don'tgive it a go, I'm gonna spend my
(12:28):
time wondering what the hell Ihave been doing.
And to be honest, Jared's like,Karina, you've spent a lot of
money on this stuff.
You probably need to startmaking some money.
Anyway, we'll keep working onthat.
So when it comes to the honestymethod, one of the things that
I've found really important isthe language that we use.
(12:49):
Fun fact, a few years ago, Iactually studied neurolinguistic
programming and LP and timelinetherapy, which kind of sits in
really handy because in a pastlife I actually was a doula.
Well, I am actually a doer.
I'm a student doula at themoment, and I am on call for a
birth, which is exciting.
So if I've got a deck offquickly, that's because my
(13:12):
amazing client just in labor,but yeah, she's not due for
another week.
So we'll just wait and see.
But when I do thehypnobirthing, it became a part
of the training, obviously, wasto be talking to really
understand the language aroundbirth.
So when you were doinghypnobirthing, instead of saying
(13:33):
a contraction, we say a surge.
Because a contraction, when youthink of contraction, you think
of that like tightconstricting.
And whereas a nice, gentlesurge, like a nice gentle surge
in the ocean, it's a bit softer.
So that's what we aim is toreally try and change the
language around what is usedwhen it comes to a birth.
(13:54):
We don't normally ask about thepain.
Like we say, please don't askme what my pain is.
Instead, we use pressure.
And I found that really, reallypowerful with my first births,
with my first two births, wassaying to the doctors and
midwives, this is the languagethat I want to use.
And they then had anunderstanding.
(14:17):
I know at the time a lot ofpeople thought I was crazy
because I was talking about thishypnobirthing thing.
And this is like 12 years ago.
So it's really important.
Then when I studied NLP, theneurolinguistic programming, I
really became aware of thelanguage that I was using around
(14:40):
my mental health.
If you are saying things thatare a definite, then you're
telling your brain that that isa definite.
It's something at the moment, Iam doing these hike things,
these little run trail hikes,and it's quite intense and it's
(15:01):
something I have never donebefore.
And I have said to myself, I'mnot a runner, like I don't run,
that's not for me.
And what I've done is now thelanguage that I use is I'm not a
runner yet.
And the word yet is actually sopowerful because if you're
saying something and you add yetonto the end of it, it gives
(15:25):
you that possibility of hope.
That's what I think is reallyimportant around your language.
So when I was first diagnosedwith PTSD and ADHD, I thought
that meant that I was broken.
Really, it meant I finally hadwords for my body to be able to
describe the things that it'sbeen screaming for years.
When we talk about language,when we use stuff, well, when
(15:52):
we're not talking about toxicpositivity, because toxic
positivity breeds shame.
Working on language thatsupports your brain and your
body actually shrinks the shame.
It takes the chaos that's inyour head and gives it a shape.
And that's where the chaosletters came in for me.
(16:12):
These were all kind ofreflections that I write.
One of the first ones that Iwrote was literally me writing a
voice note into my notes.
And I was lying on thelimestone bricks across the road
at the park.
And it was just these thingsthat were floating around in my
head that I didn't literally putpen to paper.
I opened my notes and voicedit.
(16:34):
And then I tracked it into ChatGPT and it framed it for me.
But the chaos letters arereally just these raw notes of
me writing from my reality.
And it's hard sometimes.
But the best thing is that Ilove about the chaos letters is
a way for me to connect withother people.
But then also the way thatpeople respond, and they're just
(16:57):
thinking, far out, like me too.
I'm so glad I was having areally hard moment.
And now it's given me that namefor what's going on.
So when we can name our chaos,we stop letting the shame win.
So the next thing that I loveto chat about that is really
(17:21):
important part of the honestymethod is witnessing.
You can be witnessed withoutsomeone trying to fix you.
The moment someone simply saysme too, something inside of you
unclenches.
When I say that, it makes mereally laugh because I'm like
unclenches.
I say to kids when they'reracing go-karts, the moment that
(17:46):
your butthole starts to likeclench on your seat is when you
know that's probably time to hitthe brakes and turn into the
corner.
The moment you start tosemi-relax, that's when you need
to accelerate and driveyourself through the corner.
One of the really big things isthat we don't always need
solutions.
We just need someone to see themess and stay with us.
(18:07):
It's that friend that's comesover and your kitchen's a mess
and you're feeling reallyoverwhelmed or your laundry's
not folded, and you think beforethey get there that they're
going to judge me because all ofthese things.
And I tell you what, if I comeover to your house and your
house is a mess, I'm like, girl,thank you.
Because it makes me feelnormal.
(18:28):
I'm currently sitting in mybedroom where I've got clothes
all over the bed, shit on thefloor.
I'm literally tucked in thecorner recording this podcast.
And my kids, thankfully, rightnow, they're not screaming.
But my life isn't perfect.
It's not perfect, and I don'tthink it's realistic.
(18:50):
Inside the messy middle, that'sour golden rule.
No advice unless it's askedfor.
Because advice can kind of be asilence too.
It skips over the ache.
It's just, I know sometimeswhen I ring my mum, I'll be
talking to her about work stuff.
And she goes, Well, you know, Imake sure that I reconcile all
of my files every day or everysecond day, and I just keep on
(19:13):
top of it.
And, you know, if you justblah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I thought, Mom, you're notlistening to me.
My brain doesn't work likethat.
And I think that's reallyimportant to really note that
people are actually doing thebest that they can with what
they know.
And so that's what I think isreally important.
(19:35):
Unless someone is actuallyasking for advice, don't give
it.
Shut your mouth.
When I first posted myInstagram story from my second
admission in hospital, it was mesharing that, hey, I'm back in
Perth.
This is my second time here infour months.
(19:57):
Just had a miscarriage.
I had a massive meltdown.
I'm not doing great.
The amount of people thatmessaged me back and said, same,
was the thing that kept megoing.
The women that were prepared toopen up about the things that
we've been told to stay silent,they are the women that got me
(20:20):
through those dark moments.
That's when I realized honestyisn't just healing.
Honesty is contagious, justlike a smile.
Witnessing is the moment shamedissolves into belonging.
Little Brene Brown moment foryou.
Once we're witnessed, oncesomeone says same, me too, I'm
(20:42):
like, girl, sister, it becomesno longer a performance.
It's no longer the, yeah, I'mfine, things are great, kind of
catch-ups.
It's actual connection whereyou can say the thing and still
be loved.
And I have found so much,particularly over the last 12
(21:03):
months since my ADHD diagnosis,how much better quality my
friendships are, because I'm notfaking fine anymore.
Every episode of this podcasthas been an unfiltered
conversation between me and thewoman that I was, the one who
(21:23):
used to pretend and the one whonow no longer pretends.
I mean, yeah, sometimes I do,but sometimes it's more often
than not that I'm not pretendinganymore.
When you can have thosefriendships where you can cry,
you can swear, and you can laughat the chaos.
Hello well, live laugh, toast apuff.
(21:44):
Not appropriate.
But that is just one of thethings that, you know, you can
make a bit light of it, but youknow that there's those friends
that when things are reallymessy, you can talk to them
about it.
Those friends that hold spacefor the gray, for the clouds,
for the storm.
Those connections, for me inparticular, like I said earlier,
(22:07):
they're the ones that havegotten me through.
Sometimes, though, I knowpeople feel really lonely and
isolated.
And it's tricky, depending onyour environment, as to know who
is actually really safe or asafe place that you can talk to.
I know sometimes that I foundwhen I talk to someone who is
(22:28):
normally a safe space for me, Iforget to actually check in with
them.
And I tend to offload withoutgoing, hey, how are you?
And my friends will know thatif you give me the hey, I'm
fine, I'm going to turn aroundand be like, hey, what's going
on?
I don't do the fake I'm fineanymore.
(22:52):
What I've done is I've createdthis really cool little tool.
It's called the AI PocketBestie.
And it's using a programsimilar to ChatGPT where it
works similar to the messymiddle.
You can chat to it, and it'sframed around the language that
(23:12):
I use within She's HonestlyMental.
It's framed around my trainingin NLP and hypnosis and
hypnobirthing.
And gosh, that probably soundsreally whack there for some
people.
But it's just trained in all ofthe things that I've done.
And it's really kind and it hasa really sweet heart, even
though it's an AI.
(23:33):
But it's something that you canhave in your pocket for those
moments.
You can voice note it and justsay, Oh, my fucking kids are
screaming.
Well, I'm trying to record apodcast and I want to smack them
in the head.
And it'll say, Hey, Karina, areyou asking for advice?
Or are you just venting?
And it'll respond in the waythat's most appropriate for what
(23:55):
you're going through.
One thing that it will not dois tell you to stay positive.
Just get over it.
It'll meet you where you are,the way that honesty should.
The final step with the honestymethod is integration.
And to be honest, it's thehardest one.
(24:16):
It's where the honesty becomesa lifestyle, not a breakdown
moment.
It's telling the truth in theeveryday, I forgot the form
again.
I yelled at the kids, I'm stilltired, and not adding, but I'm
fine at the end.
Like it's okay.
None of this toxic positybullshit.
None of the shame spirals.
(24:37):
None of the I'm a fuckingidiot.
I should be doing better.
The amount of times the kidsbring home notes and the school
ring me saying, hey Karina, justwonder if it's okay for the
boys to go.
And I'm like, yes, absolutely.
Sorry, I've lost the note.
Literally, my dog's eating it.
I have no idea.
(24:58):
It's choosing the softness inthe middle of the chaos.
It's literally being the calmin the storm.
It's resting before you crash,giving yourself permission to do
that, letting good enough beyour gospel.
That's what permission to behuman is built around.
(25:18):
You can kind of do it eitherway, or not do it at all.
But what I've built is sixweeks of scaffolding, not
self-help.
It's group support.
And if you wanted it, it'sone-on-one holding.
It's using actual tools thatyou can hold, no homework.
And the other really cute thingthat I thought would be really
(25:38):
valuable is a little permissionpack.
So instead of an onlineworkbook or instead of joining
Zoom calls or those kind ofthings, it's a little permission
pack that I post with love outto you with a few little goodies
in it.
What I think is reallyimportant for a good mental
(26:00):
health is to be able to build asolid foundation that can help
you when things get rocky.
It's then also building greatscaffolding around the
foundation and around you sothat when the cyclone comes, you
have got a strong structure.
It's something that I havefound really, really helpful for
(26:22):
when I am having those momentsof meltdowns and screaming and
feeling not good enough andfeeling that, oh my gosh, I've
bitten off more than I can chew.
It's knowing that I've got thatsolid foundation and the tools
in my toolbox to be able to helpme get through those moments.
And that's why I thinksomething like permission to be
(26:46):
human, like the messy middle,like the chaos letters.
It is the connection that wehave as human beings, as women,
that helps us get through thismess, the messy middle.
So yeah, that's where I'mgoing.
That's where things arehappening with She's Honestly
Mental.
It's very exciting.
(27:07):
And I'm so glad that you'rehere along for the ride.
And as always, if you love thepodcast, please let me know.
Please send me a messagebecause it is so incredibly
powerful for me to know theimpact that this is making.
And I hope too, even if joiningPermission to be human, the
(27:28):
messy middle, the chaos letters,even if you don't subscribe to
those things, I really hope thatwhat I talk about on the
podcast is something that isreally, really helpful for you
and you've got a few takeaways.
So yeah, till next time.
Peace.
Thanks for hanging out with meon She's Honestly Mentor.
If today's episode cracked opensomething inside of you or gave
(27:49):
you space to exhale, come sayhi over at Instagram at She's
Honestly Mentor.
Or send this to someone whoneeds to hear that they're not
alone.
And if you haven't yet, hitthat follow button so the next
episode lands in your messy feedright where it belongs.
Until next time, take care ofyour brain.
You're not broken.
You're just honestly mental.
(28:10):
And all the best people are.
Welcome to She's Honestly Mental, a podcast for
women who are done pretendingthey're fine when they're
falling apart on the inside.
I'm your host, Karina Robinson,ADHD Brain, Medicated Mind, and
proud mental health hospitalalumni.
Still here, still showing upsomehow.
This is the space for thefillers, the fixers, and the
(00:24):
ones who carry it all and stillwonder if it's enough.
We talk about the chaos, theconnection, and everything in
between because silence nearlykilled me, and these
conversations save lives.
Alright, cacao in hand,headphones on, chaos
semi-contained.
Let's get honestly mental.
Welcome to episode seven.
(00:47):
I am freaking excited.
You know that feeling when youfinally stop pretending?
When your body catches up toyour truth and you realize
you've been holding your breathfor years.
Yeah.
(01:10):
That's where this all started.
I didn't really build she'shonestly mental.
It really was this thing thatjust kind of came about because
I really enjoy.
Well, I find something that'sreally therapeutic is sharing my
story has been a reallytherapeutic way for me to be
(01:33):
able to process what I've beenthrough.
In particular, because I havefound other people that have
been through similar situationsand similar things, and they've
been able to really support mebecause we've both we've all
talked about our livedexperience.
I've spent decades being thecapable one, the one that's been
(01:54):
able to hold it all together,the one that looks like she's
got her life together.
And that really worked until itdidn't anymore.
And here's the wild thing.
The moment that I stoppedtrying to be fine, my life
didn't actually fall apart.
It actually started to makesense.
(02:16):
So today I want to walk youthrough what saved me.
It's not a system, it's notself-help.
One day I'm actually going todo a real, like a video where I
burn a self-help book because Ihate self-help books.
Love me a good memoir.
I love something where someonecan talk about something that
(02:37):
has really helped them throughtheir life just by sharing their
story.
I hope one day that I can writemy own memoir and be able to
help people through thatconnecting.
I find storytelling is really,really important.
So there's something that I'vebuilt or that I'm building or
(02:59):
that I'm sharing.
And really, it's the way thatI've been able to find my way
through the mess.
And I'm calling it the honestymethod.
It's not about fixing yourself,it's all about giving yourself
permission to be human.
Okay, picture this.
Well, not picture this, becausethis is exactly, you know, we
(03:19):
live in a world where women aretold to be resilient.
Resilience is everything, youknow.
You're so resilient.
Kids bounce back, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah.
It's a performance.
It's a mask that we put on tocope through the days.
It's a smile through themeetings when you're silently
(03:40):
drowning.
It's the dread of another task,another thing that you've got
to do, another P and C bakestall, another scholastic book
fair, another volunteercommitment.
Stay grateful, stay productive,stay pretty, stay polite.
And when we break, it's afailure.
(04:01):
Except really it's not afailure, it's a sign that we've
been carrying too much stuff.
And then the world goes, well,Karina, it's your fault for
carrying all of those things.
You chose to do it all.
In comes flying, the I don'teven know, is self-deprecation?
I don't know.
(04:21):
It's that negative self-talk isbasically what it is.
It comes flying in and it'slike, you're an idiot! You're a
dumbass.
You did all of these things.
And imagine if we were able toactually change that narrative.
What if it's not a personalfailure?
I know that we were never meantto carry this much alone.
(04:42):
Our brains are not broken.
And we're just human in a worldthat keeps asking you to be a
machine.
So, drummer will please.
This is where permission to behuman was born.
I've said this for years.
We're so focused on doing allof the things that we have
(05:05):
forgotten that we are actuallyhuman beings.
We focus so much on the doinginstead of being actually
sitting in the moments, sittingin gratitude, sitting in our
emotions, sitting in ourfeelings because we're so busy
with the doing, our to-do list.
It's heavy, it's hard.
(05:27):
I realized that we don't needmore motivation because
motivation is like a badboyfriend.
It never turns up when you needit to.
We need more permission.
Permission to stop, permissionto say no, permission to not be
okay today, permission to loseyour shit, permission to scream,
permission to go for a walk,permission to get a massage,
(05:52):
permission to do whatever it isthe fuck that you want to do
just to be, to be a human being.
And that's what this episodeis: a deep dive into each step
of the honesty method.
It's a scaffolding that's heldme, and now it's what I teach
inside the work.
I feel like a flog saying that.
(06:13):
It's now what I teach insidethe work.
But I honestly believe that thereason I have been through all
of this is because I have thecapacity and the capability, aka
verbal diarrhea, that I can'thelp but share all of these
amazing things.
Well, they're not amazing.
It's just life skills.
I've done lots of differentcourses, I've done lots of
(06:33):
therapy.
I feel like I've tried nearlyeverything.
And these are the things thatI've found that have been able
to help me get through theday-to-day of life being a
woman, being a mom.
So space is where everythingbegins.
Depends on what your beliefsare, you know, whether it's the
Big Bang or whatnot.
(06:54):
No, it's not really about that.
That's not the kind of space.
It's not glamorous.
It's usually the bathroom flooror in the shower, or those two
minutes where you're trying tohave a poo in silence.
It's a moment when you'recrying in the car and you're
saying, I just can't do itanymore.
Before you can speak or heal oreven hope, you have to land
(07:18):
somewhere safe enough to stopperforming.
And this is the space that Ispeak of.
For me, that was after mysecond hospital stay.
When I sat in my car outsidethe house, handshaking and
realizing I didn't know how towalk back in.
And sometimes for me, it'sactually sitting in the car doom
scrolling, and you just goingfrom one thing of being a mom or
(07:42):
dropping the kids off at schoolor coming home from work, and
then you're needing to thenreintegrate and go back into
whatever the next performance isthat you need to be doing.
Space isn't about escaping,it's about an exhale.
It's about the first quietbreath when you stop pretending
to cope.
And that's why I built themessy middle: a free space for
(08:06):
women to offload, for women toland softly, to vent, to ask for
advice, or just be witnessed.
It's not a place for fixing,and it's definitely not a home
for toxic positivity.
It's just air.
Sometimes healing doesn't startwith a plan, and it starts with
someone saying, Hey, I'm here.
(08:26):
You can breathe.
And that space.
For me with the messy middle,what I wanted was a space where
you preface what you're about topost, and you preface what
you're about to post in a wayof, hey, I'm just venting
because my husband's reallypissed me off, and I'm so sick
(08:48):
of his attitude.
For well knowing that yourhusband's attitude's probably
because you've been a reallyshitty hormonal bitch.
Or he said something that isactually true, and you just want
to smack him in the face.
I don't know.
But it's those vents, you'relike, the fucking kids like
(09:10):
yesterday.
unknown (09:11):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker (09:13):
We're toilet training with Ruben, and he came in to me
and he's like, Mum, I've done apoo.
And I'm like, Great, that's sofantastic.
You could have done the poo inthe toilet.
And while I'm laying on my bedreading my book, side note,
currently reading Mad Mabel bySally Hepworth.
So good.
I hear him in the toilet, andevery parent's worst nightmare
(09:37):
is a kid and shit.
And he's gone into the toilet,he's pulled his nappy off, he
has pulled his pants down, andhe's climbed onto the toilet
whilst putting his little pottystool thing on there.
And I'm so proud.
He actually managed to do itwithout getting shit everywhere.
But, you know, in thosemoments, sometimes you just want
(10:01):
to be like, for fuck's sake, Iwas just sitting down, trying to
read a book, trying to takesome time out for me, and the
kids chat and then decided to goand deal with it himself.
And it is definitely a momentwhere you should be really
grateful, but you just need thatsecond.
And so if I was to share thiswithin the messy middle, I would
(10:23):
be posting, hashtag this is avent.
My two-year-old who on toilettraining just decided he would
go and take himself to thetoilet, and there's fucking shit
everywhere.
Thankfully there wasn't.
And so then what happens isthis then allows the person who
reads the post to go, oh, she'sjust venting.
(10:45):
She's not actually asking foradvice.
She's just needing to get itoff her chest.
So it's giving that protectivespace to the person that's
posting, knowing that they'renot going to get that
responsive, oh my gosh, well, ifyou have just XYZ or blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah.
And you think sometimes whenpeople do that, you're like,
fuck off.
(11:05):
Like, actually shut your mouth.
I don't need you to be tellingme how to perform right now.
And so it just saves thatspace.
The other thing would be if youwere to use hashtag advice.
You are actually asking foradvice around this.
I really need help with toilettraining my two and a
(11:25):
half-year-old.
We can't get poos happening inthe toilet.
We can get we's, but we can'tget poos.
And that's where that toolwould come in handy because the
person posting is saying, I'masking for advice.
And then the people respondingknow that they're asking for
advice.
So it creates that really safeenvironment to be able to ask
(11:46):
for those things.
I kind of use it as this bit ofan offload checklist.
Preface what you're saying in asafe place.
And that way it's alsoprotecting the person that's
responding.
I don't know.
I think it's pretty cool.
And I'm like, oh, the messymiddle, it's this free space for
(12:06):
women to land softly.
But at the moment, it's more ofa hey, this is what I'm doing.
Just want you guys to be herefor the ride.
And hopefully we can get a bitof a momentum happening in
there.
This is me just doing stuffbecause I'm thinking, if I don't
give it a crack, if I don'tgive it a go, I'm gonna spend my
(12:28):
time wondering what the hell Ihave been doing.
And to be honest, Jared's like,Karina, you've spent a lot of
money on this stuff.
You probably need to startmaking some money.
Anyway, we'll keep working onthat.
So when it comes to the honestymethod, one of the things that
I've found really important isthe language that we use.
(12:49):
Fun fact, a few years ago, Iactually studied neurolinguistic
programming and LP and timelinetherapy, which kind of sits in
really handy because in a pastlife I actually was a doula.
Well, I am actually a doer.
I'm a student doula at themoment, and I am on call for a
birth, which is exciting.
So if I've got a deck offquickly, that's because my
(13:12):
amazing client just in labor,but yeah, she's not due for
another week.
So we'll just wait and see.
But when I do thehypnobirthing, it became a part
of the training, obviously, wasto be talking to really
understand the language aroundbirth.
So when you were doinghypnobirthing, instead of saying
(13:33):
a contraction, we say a surge.
Because a contraction, when youthink of contraction, you think
of that like tightconstricting.
And whereas a nice, gentlesurge, like a nice gentle surge
in the ocean, it's a bit softer.
So that's what we aim is toreally try and change the
language around what is usedwhen it comes to a birth.
(13:54):
We don't normally ask about thepain.
Like we say, please don't askme what my pain is.
Instead, we use pressure.
And I found that really, reallypowerful with my first births,
with my first two births, wassaying to the doctors and
midwives, this is the languagethat I want to use.
And they then had anunderstanding.
(14:17):
I know at the time a lot ofpeople thought I was crazy
because I was talking about thishypnobirthing thing.
And this is like 12 years ago.
So it's really important.
Then when I studied NLP, theneurolinguistic programming, I
really became aware of thelanguage that I was using around
(14:40):
my mental health.
If you are saying things thatare a definite, then you're
telling your brain that that isa definite.
It's something at the moment, Iam doing these hike things,
these little run trail hikes,and it's quite intense and it's
(15:01):
something I have never donebefore.
And I have said to myself, I'mnot a runner, like I don't run,
that's not for me.
And what I've done is now thelanguage that I use is I'm not a
runner yet.
And the word yet is actually sopowerful because if you're
saying something and you add yetonto the end of it, it gives
(15:25):
you that possibility of hope.
That's what I think is reallyimportant around your language.
So when I was first diagnosedwith PTSD and ADHD, I thought
that meant that I was broken.
Really, it meant I finally hadwords for my body to be able to
describe the things that it'sbeen screaming for years.
When we talk about language,when we use stuff, well, when
(15:52):
we're not talking about toxicpositivity, because toxic
positivity breeds shame.
Working on language thatsupports your brain and your
body actually shrinks the shame.
It takes the chaos that's inyour head and gives it a shape.
And that's where the chaosletters came in for me.
(16:12):
These were all kind ofreflections that I write.
One of the first ones that Iwrote was literally me writing a
voice note into my notes.
And I was lying on thelimestone bricks across the road
at the park.
And it was just these thingsthat were floating around in my
head that I didn't literally putpen to paper.
I opened my notes and voicedit.
(16:34):
And then I tracked it into ChatGPT and it framed it for me.
But the chaos letters arereally just these raw notes of
me writing from my reality.
And it's hard sometimes.
But the best thing is that Ilove about the chaos letters is
a way for me to connect withother people.
But then also the way thatpeople respond, and they're just
(16:57):
thinking, far out, like me too.
I'm so glad I was having areally hard moment.
And now it's given me that namefor what's going on.
So when we can name our chaos,we stop letting the shame win.
So the next thing that I loveto chat about that is really
(17:21):
important part of the honestymethod is witnessing.
You can be witnessed withoutsomeone trying to fix you.
The moment someone simply saysme too, something inside of you
unclenches.
When I say that, it makes mereally laugh because I'm like
unclenches.
I say to kids when they'reracing go-karts, the moment that
(17:46):
your butthole starts to likeclench on your seat is when you
know that's probably time to hitthe brakes and turn into the
corner.
The moment you start tosemi-relax, that's when you need
to accelerate and driveyourself through the corner.
One of the really big things isthat we don't always need
solutions.
We just need someone to see themess and stay with us.
(18:07):
It's that friend that's comesover and your kitchen's a mess
and you're feeling reallyoverwhelmed or your laundry's
not folded, and you think beforethey get there that they're
going to judge me because all ofthese things.
And I tell you what, if I comeover to your house and your
house is a mess, I'm like, girl,thank you.
Because it makes me feelnormal.
(18:28):
I'm currently sitting in mybedroom where I've got clothes
all over the bed, shit on thefloor.
I'm literally tucked in thecorner recording this podcast.
And my kids, thankfully, rightnow, they're not screaming.
But my life isn't perfect.
It's not perfect, and I don'tthink it's realistic.
(18:50):
Inside the messy middle, that'sour golden rule.
No advice unless it's askedfor.
Because advice can kind of be asilence too.
It skips over the ache.
It's just, I know sometimeswhen I ring my mum, I'll be
talking to her about work stuff.
And she goes, Well, you know, Imake sure that I reconcile all
of my files every day or everysecond day, and I just keep on
(19:13):
top of it.
And, you know, if you justblah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I thought, Mom, you're notlistening to me.
My brain doesn't work likethat.
And I think that's reallyimportant to really note that
people are actually doing thebest that they can with what
they know.
And so that's what I think isreally important.
(19:35):
Unless someone is actuallyasking for advice, don't give
it.
Shut your mouth.
When I first posted myInstagram story from my second
admission in hospital, it was mesharing that, hey, I'm back in
Perth.
This is my second time here infour months.
(19:57):
Just had a miscarriage.
I had a massive meltdown.
I'm not doing great.
The amount of people thatmessaged me back and said, same,
was the thing that kept megoing.
The women that were prepared toopen up about the things that
we've been told to stay silent,they are the women that got me
(20:20):
through those dark moments.
That's when I realized honestyisn't just healing.
Honesty is contagious, justlike a smile.
Witnessing is the moment shamedissolves into belonging.
Little Brene Brown moment foryou.
Once we're witnessed, oncesomeone says same, me too, I'm
(20:42):
like, girl, sister, it becomesno longer a performance.
It's no longer the, yeah, I'mfine, things are great, kind of
catch-ups.
It's actual connection whereyou can say the thing and still
be loved.
And I have found so much,particularly over the last 12
(21:03):
months since my ADHD diagnosis,how much better quality my
friendships are, because I'm notfaking fine anymore.
Every episode of this podcasthas been an unfiltered
conversation between me and thewoman that I was, the one who
(21:23):
used to pretend and the one whonow no longer pretends.
I mean, yeah, sometimes I do,but sometimes it's more often
than not that I'm not pretendinganymore.
When you can have thosefriendships where you can cry,
you can swear, and you can laughat the chaos.
Hello well, live laugh, toast apuff.
(21:44):
Not appropriate.
But that is just one of thethings that, you know, you can
make a bit light of it, but youknow that there's those friends
that when things are reallymessy, you can talk to them
about it.
Those friends that hold spacefor the gray, for the clouds,
for the storm.
Those connections, for me inparticular, like I said earlier,
(22:07):
they're the ones that havegotten me through.
Sometimes, though, I knowpeople feel really lonely and
isolated.
And it's tricky, depending onyour environment, as to know who
is actually really safe or asafe place that you can talk to.
I know sometimes that I foundwhen I talk to someone who is
(22:28):
normally a safe space for me, Iforget to actually check in with
them.
And I tend to offload withoutgoing, hey, how are you?
And my friends will know thatif you give me the hey, I'm
fine, I'm going to turn aroundand be like, hey, what's going
on?
I don't do the fake I'm fineanymore.
(22:52):
What I've done is I've createdthis really cool little tool.
It's called the AI PocketBestie.
And it's using a programsimilar to ChatGPT where it
works similar to the messymiddle.
You can chat to it, and it'sframed around the language that
(23:12):
I use within She's HonestlyMental.
It's framed around my trainingin NLP and hypnosis and
hypnobirthing.
And gosh, that probably soundsreally whack there for some
people.
But it's just trained in all ofthe things that I've done.
And it's really kind and it hasa really sweet heart, even
though it's an AI.
(23:33):
But it's something that you canhave in your pocket for those
moments.
You can voice note it and justsay, Oh, my fucking kids are
screaming.
Well, I'm trying to record apodcast and I want to smack them
in the head.
And it'll say, Hey, Karina, areyou asking for advice?
Or are you just venting?
And it'll respond in the waythat's most appropriate for what
(23:55):
you're going through.
One thing that it will not dois tell you to stay positive.
Just get over it.
It'll meet you where you are,the way that honesty should.
The final step with the honestymethod is integration.
And to be honest, it's thehardest one.
(24:16):
It's where the honesty becomesa lifestyle, not a breakdown
moment.
It's telling the truth in theeveryday, I forgot the form
again.
I yelled at the kids, I'm stilltired, and not adding, but I'm
fine at the end.
Like it's okay.
None of this toxic positybullshit.
None of the shame spirals.
(24:37):
None of the I'm a fuckingidiot.
I should be doing better.
The amount of times the kidsbring home notes and the school
ring me saying, hey Karina, justwonder if it's okay for the
boys to go.
And I'm like, yes, absolutely.
Sorry, I've lost the note.
Literally, my dog's eating it.
I have no idea.
(24:58):
It's choosing the softness inthe middle of the chaos.
It's literally being the calmin the storm.
It's resting before you crash,giving yourself permission to do
that, letting good enough beyour gospel.
That's what permission to behuman is built around.
(25:18):
You can kind of do it eitherway, or not do it at all.
But what I've built is sixweeks of scaffolding, not
self-help.
It's group support.
And if you wanted it, it'sone-on-one holding.
It's using actual tools thatyou can hold, no homework.
And the other really cute thingthat I thought would be really
(25:38):
valuable is a little permissionpack.
So instead of an onlineworkbook or instead of joining
Zoom calls or those kind ofthings, it's a little permission
pack that I post with love outto you with a few little goodies
in it.
What I think is reallyimportant for a good mental
(26:00):
health is to be able to build asolid foundation that can help
you when things get rocky.
It's then also building greatscaffolding around the
foundation and around you sothat when the cyclone comes, you
have got a strong structure.
It's something that I havefound really, really helpful for
(26:22):
when I am having those momentsof meltdowns and screaming and
feeling not good enough andfeeling that, oh my gosh, I've
bitten off more than I can chew.
It's knowing that I've got thatsolid foundation and the tools
in my toolbox to be able to helpme get through those moments.
And that's why I thinksomething like permission to be
(26:46):
human, like the messy middle,like the chaos letters.
It is the connection that wehave as human beings, as women,
that helps us get through thismess, the messy middle.
So yeah, that's where I'mgoing.
That's where things arehappening with She's Honestly
Mental.
It's very exciting.
(27:07):
And I'm so glad that you'rehere along for the ride.
And as always, if you love thepodcast, please let me know.
Please send me a messagebecause it is so incredibly
powerful for me to know theimpact that this is making.
And I hope too, even if joiningPermission to be human, the
(27:28):
messy middle, the chaos letters,even if you don't subscribe to
those things, I really hope thatwhat I talk about on the
podcast is something that isreally, really helpful for you
and you've got a few takeaways.
So yeah, till next time.
Peace.
Thanks for hanging out with meon She's Honestly Mentor.
If today's episode cracked opensomething inside of you or gave
(27:49):
you space to exhale, come sayhi over at Instagram at She's
Honestly Mentor.
Or send this to someone whoneeds to hear that they're not
alone.
And if you haven't yet, hitthat follow button so the next
episode lands in your messy feedright where it belongs.
Until next time, take care ofyour brain.
You're not broken.
You're just honestly mental.
(28:10):
And all the best people are.
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