July 1, 2025 • 53 mins
Many struggle with the Bible not because it’s irrelevant, but because we’ve never been given the full story. My guest today, Zach Windahl, went from confusion and disillusionment to falling in love with Scripture and now he’s helping others do the same. In this conversation, we trace Zach’s journey of rediscovery, unpack the sweeping narrative of the Bible, and explore how reclaiming the story of God roots us in a better way to live. We talk about why understanding context matters, how the Bible invites us into a kingdom worldview, and what it means to live under the reign of King Jesus in the everyday. Zach doesn’t just teach the Bible, he’s passionate about helping people actually see it, engage with it, and let it shape their lives. So join us as we lay at a roadmap to the beauty and power of the story of the Bible.
Zach Windahl is an author and content creator focused on helping his audience grow in their faith. He is the founder and former CEO of The Brand Sunday, a company that creates tools and resources to hold your hand as you read through the Bible for yourself. Marrying his passion for entrepreneurship and making faith simple and attainable has landed Zach in a unique place in the Christian landscape, where he reaches hundreds of thousands of followers on social media every day. He wrote his latest book, “The Bible, Simplified” (coming July 1, 2025), to help others be less overwhelmed by the Bible and more confident in their faith.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Zach Windahl (00:00):
Our lives need to reflect the ways of the kingdom,
(00:03):
looking at what Jesus did, whathe preached, how he lived his
life, and having our livesbecome a reflection of that.
Unknown (00:22):
You Hello
Joshua Johnson (00:25):
and welcome to the shifting culture podcast in
which we have conversationsabout the culture we create and
the impact we can make. We longto see the body of Christ look
like Jesus. I'm your host.
Joshua Johnson, you know so manystruggle with the Bible, not
because it's irrelevant, butbecause they've never been given
the full story. My guest today,Zach Wendall, went from
confusion and disillusionment tofalling in love with scripture,
(00:48):
and now he's helping others dothe same. In this conversation,
we trace Zach's journey ofrediscovery, unpack the sweeping
narrative of the Bible andexplore how reclaiming the story
of God roots us in a better wayto live. We talk about why
understanding context matters,how the Bible invites us into a
kingdom worldview, and what itmeans to live under the reign of
(01:10):
King Jesus in the everyday Zachdoesn't just teach the Bible.
He's passionate about helpingpeople actually see it, engage
with it and let it shape theirlives. So join us as we lay out
a roadmap to the beauty andpower of the story of the Bible.
Here is my conversation withZach windahl. Zach, welcome to
(01:31):
shifting culture. So excited tohave you on. Thanks for joining
me.
Unknown (01:36):
Thank you so much for having me. This is awesome. I'm
really excited for thisconversation. I'm
Joshua Johnson (01:40):
excited to talk about the Bible today. Yeah,
it's a good topic. You like theBible. You talk about the Bible
a lot, but you I don't thinkyou've always liked the Bible,
or even you were struggling withyour faith for a while. How did
you discover a love for theBible? What happened to you?
Unknown (01:59):
There was a time in my life where I grew up seeing God
move in miraculous ways, and Iknew that he was good, and I
believed in him, and I believedin Jesus, and I was always
around Bible stuff, because Iwent I went to church, and I
memorized verses, and I knewstories, but I didn't understand
how it all tied together,really, or how it was supposed
(02:22):
to impact my life. So there wasa timeframe when I was in
probably 2014 or so, when Ireally started questioning
everything. I was surrounded bya lot of people that were
Christian, that weren't reallyliving out a lifestyle that I
expected Jesus to live. And thenI was around a lot of other
people that weren't believers atall. They were spiritual,
(02:45):
whatever that means. They wereBuddhist, like, whatever the
case. And they were so kind andso, like, just sweet to the
people around them. And I wasreally conflicted. I hit that
spot saying, God, I know you'rereal. But I don't even know if I
want to be associated with theseother people right now. And so I
(03:06):
said, I'm going to give twoyears of studying the Bible as
intensely as I possibly can. AndI was like, God, I need you to
show up. And I ended up doing Doyou remember that thing called P
90x in like, the early 2000slike a workout thing. Well,
there was a church that wasdoing b 90x so it was through
(03:28):
the Bible in 90 days. And I waslike, that sounds like a good
thing for me to do. So I readthe Bible in 90 days, and by the
time I was done with it, I waslike, that was way different
than I expected. It was. I knewstories, but I didn't know the
full story. And I was like, Ineed to study this even deeper.
And so I ended up choosing thisprogram out in Australia. I was
(03:52):
in Minneapolis at the time, andand anything Australia or beach
sounded like a really good ideato me, especially with some of
our winters up there, and so Ichose Australia and went out
there. We studied for like, 12hours a day, six days a week in
this really intensive program.
That's it, yeah, literally, likethat was, yeah, no big deal. And
(04:14):
like, if it was Genesis Week,for instance, you would read
Genesis five times throughduring the week, and then you
would create, like, your owncommentary on it. And I would
say, by day two of being there,I was sold out. I was all in. I
was like, any of my doubts oranything in the past were
(04:36):
because of people, not becauseof God. I'm going all in. And I
think that's such a commonthing, I don't know if you'd
agree, but a lot of people thatmay like deconstruct their faith
or fall away from the church,it's always, for the most part,
what I've seen is, is blamingother people for things, or it's
like my pastor did this, so itmade me fall away from the
(04:58):
church. Or these people in mysmall, small group were this
way, so I didn't want to be apart of it. But it's rarely,
like, ever fully about God andand I think that's kind of a
strange thing, where it's like,oh, I'm I'm leaving my faith in
God because of somethingsomebody else said. Like, if
somebody said something negativeabout my wife. I'm not gonna
(05:21):
leave my wife because of whatthey said or what they did. I
was going through that wholeperiod of what do I actually
believe? And when I spent timestudying scripture and diving
into the text, that's wheneverything changed for me,
Joshua Johnson (05:37):
I think because of that, and I think people are
falling away, deconstructingdoing things. Because the
people, I think, pastors, churchleaders, people, are like, Oh,
maybe we haven't discipledpeople well, maybe we haven't
done things well so that peoplewill will stay when things get
hard and difficult. And so oneof the ways that I think we
(05:58):
haven't done well in the past iswe've given people stories, but
not the story of the Bible, notthe whole narrative, 100% so
when you started to see thenarrative of Scripture, how did
that shift you in your thinking?
What does it do for us when wesee the full story?
Unknown (06:14):
I think when you break down and understand that it is a
historical document, that it'swritten to a specific people
group, and that Jesus is nothere to start a new religion.
He's the fulfillment of an oldreligion. And you break it down
that way, it's like, Oh, I wastalking to somebody the other
(06:35):
day, and they were like, Yeah,well, Jesus didn't want anything
to do with religion. It's like,that just means you didn't
understand the storyline ofScripture, because he wanted
everything to do with it, and hewas the fulfillment of the whole
Old Testament, and he had thewhole Old Testament memorized,
and as any good rabbi, Jewishteacher would would at that
(06:57):
time. And so I think for me, itwas like, Okay, if this is a
storyline from beginning to end,and I can see where I am in the
story as well, and make itpersonal and say, This is what
the kingdom of God is, and thisis what I'm signing up for, and
God wants to partner with me tobring this out into the world,
then that's when it shifted forme and and I talked to so many
(07:21):
people that I don't think a lotof younger people actually
understand their faith, and Ithink it comes from only being
told one verse on a Sunday as agood transitional moment between
a few stories, as you mentioned,and you leave encouraged for the
week in order to come back thenext Week. But you don't
actually understand the Bible alot of the time, and I think
(07:44):
that's a huge issue. And I'mreally hoping and believing that
there is a change going on inculture right now, and I think
there is where you have all ofthese new people that are coming
to church for the first time. Inthe past, it was always like it
was common to have a lot ofprodigals returning to the
church, but now what I'm seeingis people are coming for the
(08:05):
first time. They're being handeda Bible, and they're being told,
read this because you need to.
And people are like, I don'teven know where to begin. And
then they'll start a readingplan. And within three weeks,
it's like, oh, I have I'm givingup because I don't know what how
Leviticus even like. What am Ireading right now? You know? And
I think people just need theirhand held through the process.
(08:29):
And I think that's really what Ifeel called to do and dedicate
all of my work to. Is, how can Imake people be less overwhelmed
by the Bible in order to becomeconfident in their faith.
Joshua Johnson (08:41):
I know that when I went through my old testament
narrative and New Testamentnarrative courses, and then I
had to write the story of theBible through a specific lens,
so I chose honor shame lens andwalked through the whole Bible
through an honor and shame lens.
And what that looks like, itshifted a lot for me, I was so
excited about the story aboutthe Bible, and I could situate
(09:03):
myself, you know, in the storynow. So if you you have people
looking and go, Hey, I wasraised in church. I have all
these Sunday School stories. Iknow these things, but I'm not
quite sure how everything fitstogether. Can you walk us
through the narrative of theBible briefly and simply, so
that we could say, what is it?
Unknown (09:26):
Yes, 100% so it begins in with God creating everything.
And he created humans and placedthem in a garden, which was
perfect relationship with Him.
Essentially, it was a placewhere you could think of like
heaven and earth overlapping andbut he gave humans a choice to
either continue expanding thegarden and expanding the kingdom
of God on earth, or you couldchoose to partner with the ways
(09:50):
of the world. And humans choseto partner with the ways of the
world instead, and instead ofall of humanity God. Event.
Actually chose a specificperson, Abraham, to have a
covenant with, and to say, I'mgoing to, instead of choosing to
partner with everyone, I'm goingto choose one family, and
through that family, everybodyelse is going to be blessed. And
(10:12):
through these covenants and afew more covenants throughout
the Old Testament portion ofScripture, there's ups and downs
in the relationship with God.
There's things are great and andpeople are thriving, and then
there's times where they'retrying to do their own thing
because of the surroundingcultures and the ways of the
world really speaking into them.
And it was a spot where itwasn't going any further, and
(10:38):
they were stuck in a sin cyclewith sin and then sacrifices.
And the only way to completelyremove the sacrificial system
was through a perfect human. Andso Jesus came down as that
perfect human to be sacrificedso that his blood on the cross
can cover it for everyone. Andso now, as we are covered by the
(11:02):
blood of Jesus, as we have theHoly Spirit, now it's it's kind
of like before within the Gardenof Eden, where heaven and Earth
were overlapping everywhere thatwe bring the kingdom. Today,
there's little pockets ofoverlap of heaven and earth
overlapping, and we're on thistrajectory right now of the
kingdom expanding, where one dayeverything will be restored, and
(11:25):
sin will be completely removed,and all the effects of sin will
be removed like right now.
Tornadoes are because of the sincycle. Cancer is because of the
sin cycle. Chaos is and therewill be a time in the future
when everything is restored,where all of that will be gone.
(11:46):
And so for us today, asbelievers, we're pointing
towards that, and we're saying,I want to bring the kingdom of
God to my surrounding area. Sothat means bringing people hope,
bringing people peace, helpingthem find healing and
forgiveness and and showing themthat true forgiveness of sins is
only through Jesus, and if wechoose to partner with him, then
(12:10):
our lives are going to produce aton of fruit that that others
wouldn't be able to see. And sowe're on that process of moving
towards restoration right now.
Joshua Johnson (12:20):
Beautiful articulation, encapsulation of
the Bible and where we are rightnow, right? We're moving towards
restoration. We actually get tojoin Jesus in the reconciliation
and redemption of all things,which is crazy that we get to
participate in it. It isamazing. I love it. It's a
privilege that we get to be ableto partner with him, but and we
(12:42):
have Holy Spirit living with usand dwelling us, which is also a
crazy thing, that the Spirit ofthe Living God is within me and
you. I don't think people in therash of Christ I know like
Unknown (12:56):
that's a huge deal, and like the creator of the universe
wants to partner with you and I,what an honor. Like, we should
only approach him from a placeof awe and reference, because of
that, you know, like, that'samazing. So cool. You
Joshua Johnson (13:12):
know, in the Old Testament, there was, there was
the Spirit of God. So if we'rejust talking about the Spirit of
God, so the Spirit of God was inthe in the temple, the
tabernacle, as they're, they'rewalking, you know, through the
desert, through and in the OldTestament, and then, after Jesus
died, was resurrected, you know,the veil was torn and the temple
so that there and then the HolySpirit was given to us, so that
(13:36):
we are now the temple of God andcarry The presence of God. How
does that, that whole aspect ofthe Spirit and where he is,
impact the way that we live inour life, and what it is that we
get to do.
Unknown (13:52):
I don't think people even realize that they are the
temple through that part of thestory. And it's it's so
fascinating, because in the OldTestament, you have the
tabernacle and the temple andand when they dedicated the
temple, fire came down onto thealtar. And during the day, when
they would move the tabernaclefrom place to place, God's
(14:14):
presence was found in in a cloudand fire by night, and then in
Acts when you have the HolySpirit coming in, and they're in
the room, wind comes in, whichwe've seen with the temple and
the tabernacle, and tongues offire rest upon them, which we
saw with the temple and thetabernacle. And I don't think
people make that, thatconnection there, which is
(14:38):
really cool, that yes, you arenow the temple of the living
God, and everywhere that you go,you're bringing his kingdom, and
like that revelation right thereis insane. We should be
approaching him every single daywith worship, just as the
priests would if we believe thatwe are now priests. Is in the
(15:00):
kingdom of God, and He is oureverything. Worship should be a
lifestyle, and I think thatcomes from our work. If you're a
plumber, you can make worshipyour lifestyle is just as much
as any pastor can your job,where whatever you're doing, you
can worship God through that andhonor him in it. And I think
(15:25):
having that shift in mindset isso crucial in who we become and
how we live our lives that wethat we fall in love with the
act of worship. Any wisdom inScripture, so all wisdom
literature, the root of it isfear God and obey His commands
(15:46):
and whatever else you learn init. That's the root. And I think
that's missed a lot of the timesin at least in the younger
church in the West, it seemswhere you might go to church to
be encouraged, but the purposeof church is to worship God and
to equip the saints and thensend them out. And we miss,
(16:07):
oftentimes, that worship andthat awe and that reverence and
and fearing him in in a healthyway, and learning to hear His
voice and obey what He actuallysays, because by doing so that's
where true life transformationcomes, and that's where you're
going to see him moving in yourlife. And that's what he wants,
(16:29):
and that's what he that's whathe desires, and that's what he
deserves. Is our lives asworship, and if we miss that,
we're missing out on so much inlife. I think, would you agree
with that?
Joshua Johnson (16:42):
Yeah, of course.
And I think that there's twothings, I think, one in the
church today, I think we'restruggling with, how do we love
God and love our neighbor? Well,there's some parts of the church
will say, I'm going to be reallyheavy and just stay on the love
area, and I forget about thefear of God, and some are just
like fear and holiness and likethere's no love totally. So how
(17:05):
do those two interplay inScripture? And what is the love
of God and then the fear of God?
How does that play out for us?
Unknown (17:17):
Yeah, I think it's loving people and showing them
that God loves them so much thathe's giving them a way to live
that does result in change. AndI think in the younger church,
oftentimes it's come in howeveryou are, you're welcome, you
don't need to change. And that'sjust not what we see in
Scripture. It's once people comein, then they change because
(17:41):
they've dedicated their life toliving under King Jesus and
under his rule and reign. Andthat means there are things that
need to change in your life, andthe Bible is very clear on a lot
of things that we need to do inlife. And yes, loving our
neighbor is like loving Godloving our neighbor. That's the
two most important things. Butloving doesn't mean that we're
(18:05):
just accepting you for however,however you are. Loving means
saying, Hey, you're welcomehere. But once you actually come
in, you need to turn away fromthe ways of the world, because
if you read like John 316 andthen continue reading. In 17 and
18, God still hates thewickedness of the world, and
(18:27):
there needs to be a changethere. And if you don't want to
agree with the ways of theworld, you want to agree with
the kingdom of God, and He givesus an out there. I think from
the beginning, there's alwaysbeen choices that we've had.
There's tree of knowledge, ofgood and evil, there's Tree of
(18:48):
Life, there's Babylon, there'sJerusalem, there's kingdom of
God, kingdom of the world.
There's light, there's darkness.
We've always had the choicebetween the two, and from my
perspective, now it's like, whywould I ever Cho choose the ways
of the world? But I thinkSatan's very conniving and good
at convincing people that Hisways are better because of
(19:12):
judgment or whatever. And Ithink if people have that
understanding in that and thatshift, it'll it'll really help
them fall in love with God moreand realize that, okay, His
Holiness is is the root. Inorder to see his love for
people, it needs to be seenthrough the lens of holiness.
First, I heard a pastor or ateacher say that recently, and I
(19:33):
thought that was so good,instead of just looking at at
people through the eyes of love,looking at people at looking at
God through holiness and thenthe love of Him.
Joshua Johnson (19:44):
You've mentioned the kingdom of God a lot, and
you just said, we want to beunder the reign of King Jesus,
yeah. And so take us throughthis the story. What is the
Kingdom? I think in America, wehave a democracy. We don't have
a kingdom. Sometimes we're notlike, what is the. Yes. And what
is this language? This seemsarchaic, so take us through what
(20:05):
is the kingdom, and how doesthat play out? And how did Jesus
become king? And why are weunder his reign in rule
Unknown (20:12):
the the fourth covenant was with King David, and the
Jewish people were alwayswaiting for for the next person
that was like King David, thatwas going to bring them to
political a time of peace andprosperity politically. And so
they were expecting this Messiahto be that person that was going
(20:33):
to come in, that was going totake over the Romans and say,
No, this is the way things are.
Now. We're going to spread thiskingdom of God throughout the
world politically. And thenJesus came on the scene and was
like, well, the kingdom of Godis at hand. And you guys think
it's one way, but it's actuallya different way. It's it's a
spiritual way instead. So youhave these people that are so
(20:57):
set on political, Jesus freedom,and then all of a sudden, he's
on a cross. And think of howconfusing that would have been,
like, you have some of thedisciples in the end of Matthew
that are like, on the road of toEmmaus, and they're like, We
don't understand what happenedhere. Like, Jesus was supposed
to be this leader that we haveon earth that was going to bring
(21:21):
in this time of prosperity andpeace for all of the Jewish
people. And now he's dead. Itdoesn't even make sense to us,
but Jesus came in a wholedifferent way, in a spiritual or
he came physically, but theresults of his death was a
spiritual kingdom and aspiritual reign. And today we
believe that he is sitting onthe throne, and that in order to
(21:42):
call him Lord and and King meansthat our lives are now under his
ultimate authority. And so yes,we still need to obey politics
in your region. But although theone with the final, ultimate
say, is King Jesus. And I thinkthe kingship is missed a lot of
(22:04):
the time in the West, because,as you said, we don't, we don't
live under a kingdom right now,but to have a king means that
you, you that somebody's rulingand reigning over a people
group. And in Christianity, webelieve that people group as
followers of Jesus, that we'reunder that, and so our lives
(22:25):
need to reflect that, and needto reflect the ways of the
kingdom, looking at what Jesusdid, what he preached, how he
lived his life, and having ourlives become a reflection of
that, I think often in thechurch, like discipleship is
learning about the church andthen learning, like, how to
(22:45):
maybe how to study the Bible.
But it's not, it's not fullylife encompassing for the early
church. It really was. So do youever read like, where Jesus goes
up to the disciples and he'slike, come follow me. And they
literally drop everything to gofollow him. For us, it's like,
(23:07):
that doesn't make sense. Why?
Why would you leave your job andeverything behind just because
he said, Come follow me. Butthat's where, like, context is
so key. You need to understandthat. So Jesus was a rabbi. He
was a Jewish rabbi, or Rabbiwasn't the word, then it was
just a teacher or a sage, butJesus was this like high
authority in Judaism. And as aJewish kid, you would go to
(23:30):
school and you would beimmersed, and you would study
the scripture, and it would beyour everything. And by the time
you were 12 or 13, you'd havethe first five books of
Scripture fully memorized. Andthen if you were good enough,
you would continue in school,and you would continue
memorizing the rest of theHebrew Bible, or our Old
Testament, and by the time youwere 15 or 16, you would have
(23:52):
that memorized. And then if youwere good enough, you would go
up to rabbis, and you wouldprove that you were good enough
to them, and if they believedyou were, they would essentially
say, Come follow me, and lifeunder them would be fully
submersed. You would eat withthem. You would drink with them.
(24:12):
You would sit under theirteaching. You would do
everything that your rabbi did.
And so now you have thedisciples in our story that are
out working with their in theirfamily business, meaning that
they weren't good enough tocontinue studying under a rabbi,
even though that's theirgreatest heart desire since they
(24:35):
were a little kid, 345, yearsold, they've wanted to be under
a rabbi. And now you have arabbi come up to them and say,
Hey, you are good enough. Comefollow me. Of course, you're
going to leave everythingbehind. That would be the most
incredible thing ever to hear inthat moment. And I think those
(24:56):
little historical understandingschange. Your view of Scripture
completely, because now it'slike, okay, yes, Jesus is my
king. Jesus is my rabbi. Inorder to figure out how to live
out my life, I need to look atwhat he's doing, spend time in
the Word, spend time studyinghis words and learn to bring
(25:19):
that kingdom to to my day today.
Joshua Johnson (25:22):
Said context is key, and we need to know the
historical context and how toread Scripture. I think now,
since, if I'm in America, I havea couple of different lenses
that I read Scripture through.
One, I live in the Empire, whichis, which different, right? So
I'm, I'm reading from a, I don'tknow I could even say, an
oppressor type mentality, likeI'm more powerful than everybody
(25:45):
else, for sure, to it's veryhighly individualistic. And so I
have an individualized lens. Ialso look for for logic and
reason. There's so manydifferent ways that I approached
the Bible without ever thinking,How was this written and what
was the culture and context tothe people it was written to. So
(26:08):
take us. How do I take some ofmy own biases and lenses off?
How should I encounter theBible? Read the Bible. What is
the context and the culture.
Unknown (26:21):
It was written to specific people, and we need to
realize that that it was writtenfrom a specific person or from
specific people, written tospecific people dealing with
specific issues. Yes, it waswritten for us, but it wasn't
written to us, and that'scrucial. I don't know who said
that, but I use it all the timebecause it's so true, and it
(26:42):
comes down to understandingthem, their that person's
mindset. So the authors and theaudience had a Hebrew and an
Eastern mindset. And for us inthe West, we have a Western and
a Greek mindset. And so for us,we want to know data and facts,
and if God actually createdeverything in six days
(27:04):
scientifically, and how did hedo it? Because contradicts, like
what my science teacher said.
And we want to know thosethings. We want to know the
reasoning, and we want to callGod things like Omniscient and
Omnipresent, and we have thesebig words for him, but with the
Eastern Hebrew mindset, it'stotally different. They view
(27:25):
things in story and in parablesand in symbols a lot of the
time, and they want to they wantto share that God is like a
shepherd. God is like an eagle,and you're under his wings. They
want to talk in poetry andparables. For us, we read
Jesus's parables, and we'relike, Why can't he just say this
(27:47):
in two sentences and explainexactly what he means, or at
least, like, explain afterwardswhat he's trying to say? But for
them, it's a beautiful thing,because that's how they
understood life. For them, allof life is is spiritual. But for
a Greek mindset, it's often likespiritual is bad or spiritual is
good and physical is bad, andthey're two separate things. But
(28:10):
for them, that's not the case.
All of life was spiritual, andso I don't think we need to
learn to adapt our mindset to beEastern and Hebrew in all of
life, but we definitely need tounderstand these contexts and
and their views of life in orderto read Scripture properly and
(28:31):
to to spend time enjoying it andfalling in love with it. And I
think that mindset, once Iunderstood that mindset, it was
like a key that unlocked a lotfor me, and it changed my
questions of things and andopened it to to the reality and
the beauty of Scripture.
Joshua Johnson (28:50):
So if we don't read the Bible through that
mindset, the Eastern Hebraicmindset, how do we misread
scripture? What are someprominent ways that you have
seen people misreading scripturethrough a different lens.
Unknown (29:02):
Yeah, I think even like starting with poetry chapter
one, Genesis one, it's like Godcreated everything in six days
and then he rested. But forthem, it was you need to look at
who the audience was that thatwas being written to. So for the
audience, it was the Israeliteshad just come out of slavery and
and the gods that the Israeliteshad believed that humans were
(29:27):
created to work for them. Therewas no days off. Your entire
worth and value was based on howmany bricks you could make for
the Egyptians and for theirgods. For the author of Genesis,
who I believe was Moses, whoeveryou believe it is, was actually
writing to them, saying, Hey,your God is different. You're
(29:50):
made in His image. And he workedfor a specific amount of time,
and then he took a day off andrested. And Sabbath is something
that you're now. Going to do.
And instead of being created towork for him, you're created to
partner with him in his image,to bring his kingdom here. And I
think things like that is like,wow. Now my views of Genesis one
(30:14):
are completely different thanthey they were beforehand. And
like all of the Bible, 50% of itis story, a third of it is
poetry, and the rest isdiscourse. But I think for
people that grew up in thechurch or maybe have never read
the Bible before, they thinkit's more just a rule book, and
(30:35):
so they're approaching it fromOkay, I need to know whether or
not I'm allowed to have tattoosor have a beer tonight, like
they go to it, go to it withlike, what am I allowed to do?
What's sin and what isn't sin,when, in reality, that's just
not what Scripture is most ofthe time. And so that's why I
(30:55):
think it's so important for usto zoom out and to see it from a
big picture perspective. Becauseif you, if you do that, then
it's like, wow, what I wasapproaching scripture for in the
past had nothing to do reallywith what the actual story is,
is trying to convey and comeacross.
Joshua Johnson (31:17):
Yeah, it sounds like we often focus on the on
things downstream, and we seeall of the fruits of what is
happening in in life, and we'retrying to, trying to solve all
of those issues, but we never goupstream to say what, what is
actually making all of thischaos in the world, in our life.
(31:38):
And how can I actually get backto that place and zooming out is
such a important thing to do.
You know, I think a lot ofpeople are struggling, like,
Hey, I have the Bible with me.
And you, you said, even at thebeginning, people will say, I'm
going to start to read the Biblefrom front to back, and then I
get stuck in Leviticus. I justquit. I'm done. So if you talk
(32:00):
to people now, like, what isyour recommendation? How do, how
do people start with the Bibleso that they could get it into
their heads? There's a fewthings you said, right? Rabbis,
the people that there, they werememorizing Scripture, like they
got it in into their hearts.
Like it wasn't just, you know,around them, it was in them, and
so it's important for us to bein the Bible. So how do we do
(32:25):
it? What's your recommendationfor us?
Unknown (32:30):
Yeah, I think for starters, having that
foundational understanding ofthe storyline. So now, when you
read books like Hosea, you knowwhat's going on. Because for so
many of us, it's like, yeah, wejust go to church on Sunday and
the pastor preaches on this oneverse, and you don't know where
that is in the storyline ofScripture, and it's like, what's
(32:53):
the point of it? Then you know,and so for starters, it's
understanding the fullstoryline. Then I would say,
Yeah, reading plans are great.
But if you're stuck in a readingplan, and you've done it maybe
for the last 20 years, and it'snow monotonous to you, I would
say, switch it up completely. Dosomething crazy. Read the Bible
(33:13):
in 90 days. Read the Bible in 30days. Like do something because
I think when you when you'reused to doing the same thing
year after year, and all of asudden, you put a shift in it,
and it changes, and you and youchange the way that you study,
it's gonna reignite a newpassion for you. So I just read
the whole Bible in February, andby doing so, you're now on day
(33:36):
three, reading about things thatyou would normally be on, like
week 14, reading about, youknow, because you're just
getting so much more packed in,and you're able to see how
things relate with each other.
And I think there's when you'rewhen you're reading the Bible
over the course of a year, andit's just three chapters a day,
(34:00):
or whatever it ends up being,you might miss out on some of
the stuff that you read aboutsix months prior, but if that's
not for you, then start small. Iwould say, read a psalm a day,
maybe read through a chapter,whatever you have the mental
capacity for because all of ushave, we have different lives.
(34:24):
Some are extremely busy. Somehave more time. But I think we
can replace certain thingsthroughout our day with Bible
reading. So maybe you drive to acoffee shop every morning. Maybe
you're driving to work, you canlisten to it. There are. There's
so many amazing tools out thereto listen to. And so some people
might say, Well, the Bible, whenI listen to it, it's monotonous.
(34:47):
Well, great. There's a programcalled street lights, which is
like a Lo Fi music in thebackground. And in they like
they read Scripture to you, andit's not monotonous as. All. So
there's options out there. Ithink it's so easy for us to
make excuses for why we don'twant to read the Bible, when, in
reality, every excuse has agreat contrast to it. And so if
(35:13):
you can read it all in a year,awesome. Do it at least once
like you want to understand thestoryline of Scripture. If
that's too much for you, gosmall, read some, read the
Psalms, read a chapter at a timeand work your way through a
book. I'm an advocate forreading large chunks at once. So
instead of sitting down for fiveminutes, maybe sit down for an
(35:37):
hour and read, because you canread through so much text, and
then you're reading it in thethe lens that the original
author was writing in, like wecan read Philippians in what
1215, minutes, and for so manyof us were stuck on meditating
on two verses of Philippians,instead of realizing that this
(35:58):
was A letter written to thechurch in Philippi, to specific
people that were dealing withspecific problems. And so yeah,
there's going to be some versesand some scripture that's not
going to make sense to you, butI would always recommend to just
read through it anyways, becauseI think something does happen in
our spirit and something changeswithin us. And if you just
(36:20):
continue to show up and readthrough Scripture and are
consistent with it time and timeagain for over the course of
years, like we should all fallin love with scripture where
we're reading this for the restof our life by doing so you're
going to be 10 years laterrecalling stuff that you read
way long ago and realizing thatit actually did help you, even
(36:42):
though, in the moment, youthought that it had nothing to
do with with your situation andit made no sense to you, but I
would say just continue topower, power through and build
those habits, becauseconsistency in all things in
life, but especially with yourfaith, is where you're where
you're going to See it reallypay off, and you're going to
understand so much more.
Joshua Johnson (37:03):
Do you know Zach? We've had a lot of good
stories written in the in theworld, in the history of human
race, we've had a lot of goodstories. We've had a lot of good
books. But there's somethingdifferent in about the Bible,
multiple authors over over yearsand years, a lot of time. Why
(37:24):
has the Bible stood out? Why isthere life in the Bible, as
opposed to all of the othergreat books and literature that
we have that are good, and Iwant to be with them, but I
don't want to be reading themevery single day. But so what's
different about this Bible thatwe have?
Unknown (37:44):
Well, we believe that the Bible was inspired by God.
So it's not like it was writtenby God and dropped from the sky
and somebody found it, but webelieve that the Holy Spirit
inspired the authors ofScripture. So we they are
writing the way that they dowrite. But the overarching theme
of everything is inspired byScripture. That's why I saw this
(38:06):
infographic the other day. Oflike, all of the ways that the
Bible connects, and it's like1000s and 1000s of ways, which
is like fascinating to have 40plus authors over 1500 years on
three continents, and everythingthey wrote has a seamless thread
(38:27):
through it all, where it alllinks up and connects. Like even
just the book of Revelation has400 allusions to the Old
Testament in it, and you can'tunderstand that book if you
don't understand the OldTestament. And same with
everything Jesus said, like heknew scripture, he knew the Old
Testament, the Hebrew Bible inand out. And I don't believe
(38:48):
that you can understand what hesaid or did without
understanding the Old Testament.
And you we need to understandthe Bible fully from beginning
to end because it is all oneseamless story, and that is
because of the Holy Spiritinspiring the authors. And it's
the same Holy Spirit that wehave today, inside of us is the
(39:12):
one that inspired the authors.
So of course, when we're readingscripture, well, you can read it
one day and get one thing fromit, and you can read it tomorrow
and get something completelydifferent from it, because the
Holy Spirit speaks to us throughthe word. One of the greatest
ways to hear from God is throughHis Word. And so we need to
(39:36):
spend time in the Word. Andwhether, whether it we know
where to go right away. Ibelieve the Holy Spirit will
direct you where to go and whatto read. And I think we can pull
pieces from it that will impactno matter what we're going
through in life, and he can, andthe Holy Spirit will speak to
(39:58):
you through that.
Joshua Johnson (39:59):
I. Does knowing the story and being part of the
story help root us in a largeridentity? I think, you know, my
my thoughts are here in theculture that we're in. We, you
know, we really try to find whowe are from the inside of us.
The Bible is actually thenwritten for us so that we can be
(40:21):
rooted in a larger story,something outside of us that
actually impacts our lives. Andso it's it's different than the
culture around us, and I thinkthat we've been all over the
place, and so we have depressionand anxiety and loneliness. I
think because we're rootless, wedon't have many roots, and I
(40:43):
could go from one identity toanother identity to another
identity very quickly. How doesbeing a part of the story of the
Bible help root us
Unknown (40:53):
in the West? We're all very individualized, and we only
want to chase after what we feelis good or what we feel called
to do. But as a believer, wekind of get rid of we put down
our cross every day, or we putdown our ideas and desires a lot
of the time. And we're saying,Hey, I believe that life under
(41:15):
King Jesus is the ultimate lifethat I can live, and even if I
want to do something my way,oftentimes that may contradict
with what Scripture says. And bygiving him the ultimate
authority, by giving the Biblethe ultimate authority that it
is, we're saying whateverscripture says, that's what I'm
(41:37):
going to become and in the lifethat I'm gonna live out and so
believers as a whole, God'speople. He's saying, I wanna
partner with you as a wholepeople group and use you to
spread my kingdom throughout theworld. Instead of, hey, I wanna
partner with Zach to build Hiskingdom in order to sell more
(41:57):
books or whatever. That's notthe case at all. He's saying, I
want you to create tools andlive your life to in order to
empower my community of peopleand bring more people into the
community. Because as morepeople come into the community
and become followers of Jesus,we actually go out and bless the
(42:18):
rest of the world through it.
And I think it's God's kindness,oftentimes that leads people to
repentance and brings them intothe kingdom. And so if we can,
if we can be realize that we'repart of a community of people,
that we're rooted in this, thatGod's identity can be found in
Scripture, which, in return,shows us our identity. It gives
(42:39):
us our calling. It gives us ourpurpose in life, to go out to
make disciples and to blessothers and bring them in and to
show them, hey, this is whatlife is like in the kingdom, and
you can be a part of it too, aslong as you leave the ways of
the world behind and give yourallegiance to King Jesus, and if
(42:59):
you want to be a part of it,it's going to be a wild ride,
and it's going to change who youbecome as a person, but it's all
for good, even if out of thegate. It may not seem like it,
because he calls us to makechanges in our lives that can be
uncomfortable, especially in ourculture that says we are allowed
(43:21):
to do whatever we want, andthat's just not life in in God's
kingdom. And he's saying, thisis this is the way of the
kingdom. This is how you aresupposed to live your life. And
as followers of Jesus, we shouldagree with that. We can't take
some verses out of context andsay this is what I want the
(43:45):
Bible to to say or portray,because that's saying that we're
God and we have the ultimateauthority. But if we say that
God has the ultimate authority,that means what he says goes,
and it's not always easy, butit's always worth it, because
then we'll, we'll be part ofthis restoration project that
(44:07):
he's doing, and that's, that's areally fun place to be. It
Joshua Johnson (44:13):
is a fun place to be. I think some people use
the Bible to say, hey, well,they'll cherry pick verses so
that it could fit whatever Iwant it to fit. How does then,
knowing the story, knowing theBible, give us wisdom to engage
cultural issues like immigrationor abortion or the economy or,
(44:36):
you know, how does it impact ourour everyday life and the way
that we make decisions in theworld for our community,
Unknown (44:44):
yeah, because a lot of people have been harmed by it in
history. So I don't ever want tolike minimize that, but at the
root of it is love God and loveyour neighbor. And that doesn't
mean that everything we do needsto. To to be focused on other
people. I think as a community,we need to also become healthy,
(45:06):
and that means first looking atokay, am I loving God with my
life? Am I actually spendingtime worshiping Him? Spending
time in Scripture is myimmediate circle. Actually be
being changed for good. And thenI believe that we should have
believers in every sector oflife, in in entertainment and
(45:29):
politics and healthorganizations and immigration,
and we should be bringing Godlywisdom to those areas. And
instead of like, oh, theultimate place for a Christian
to to work is to be a pastor. Idon't think that's the case at
all. I think, I think God wantsus to being able to bring that
(45:50):
wisdom to places that may notactually have it and may not
actually be looking out for thegood of others. And I think once
we once we show that God'swisdom is our ultimate
authority, and that usually it'smost people would agree that it
is for the better of ourneighborhoods and our and our
(46:11):
cultures, then I think morepeople are going to want to be a
part of it and and askquestions. And I don't think we
need to necessarily be in thosepositions and like only be
preaching gospel, but I thinkour actions can oftentimes just
speak so clear, and then whenpeople do ask questions, we can
say, Oh yeah, it's because of myrelationship with God. It's
(46:33):
because I found this in theBible. And allow you, we need to
allow our lives to become areflection of that and our
testimony to be, to be used inways to spread the gospel and
bring more people in our I thinkI don't think we realize how
incredible our stories are, andhow much that can help people
(46:55):
really understand God. And so wegot to be sharing what God has
done in our lives, who we werebefore and who we are now, and
how he continues to partner withus in our day to day, and how we
believe that true wisdom isfound in Scripture, that story
alone should want to bring otherpeople in to also dedicate their
(47:17):
lives to this.
Joshua Johnson (47:18):
Zach, if you could talk to your readers and
give them your hope for theBible simplified. What do you
hope that they would get whenthey read this?
Unknown (47:26):
Yeah, so many people are overwhelmed by the Bible and
they feel like they don't havetime. And I think when people
are confused by something, theyjust push it away and don't
engage with it at all. So thisbook was written so that you
it's 40 really short chapters,three to four pages per chapter,
bringing you through the entirestoryline of scripture in order
(47:46):
to bring some clarity to that sothat you do build that
foundational understanding ofthe Bible, not to replace
scripture at all, but to havethat foundation so that you can
fall in love with scripture therest of your life and be
confident in what you actuallybelieve.
Joshua Johnson (48:01):
Fantastic. I think they need to do that. As
we get this the narrative ofScripture, what it is, unpack
it. We could see it, we know it.
We could situate ourselves inthe story. It makes all the
difference. Makes all thedifference. So it's fantastic. I
really hope people go out andget the Bible simplified,
because it is really, reallygood and a necessary tool for us
as believers good. I have acouple quick questions for you,
(48:26):
Zach at the end. One, if you goback to your 21 year old self,
what advice would you give?
Unknown (48:33):
I would say, do one small thing towards your goal
every single day, whether youfeel like you have time or not.
I think as a 20 something, it'slike, I'm gonna work really hard
towards something on Tuesday,because that's where I have
time. And then if it doesn'twork in the next in the next two
months, I'm gonna drop it andtry something new. And I think
(48:57):
if most people have a goal ofwhat they want to accomplish or
where they want to be, and theybreak, break it down into small
chunks every single day andcontinue working towards it,
then you're going to see thesuccess of it much faster than
you would if it's just a ton offocus on a small amount of time.
And if I would have known thatwith life, with business,
(49:20):
especially because I have a hugeheart for like entrepreneurship.
If I would have known that, itwould have changed my business
strategy, and then also with theBible, instead of just spending
time in scripture on Sunday, ifI spent little chunks every
single day during the week, itwould have compounded to so much
more knowledge and andrelational wisdom and
(49:41):
understanding that I didn't havein my early 20s.
Joshua Johnson (49:45):
Anything you've been reading or watching lately
you could recommend, ooh,
Unknown (49:49):
I really love NT Wright's stuff. So I've been
going through some of his booksrecently. So like simply Jesus
and simply Christian, just.
Visiting some of those. And Ithink everybody should, should
read those. Surprised by hope isanother one. He's got really,
really great thoughts. You
Joshua Johnson (50:09):
can never go wrong with recommending. NT,
right. Yes, fantastic. So that'sthat's good. The Bible
simplified is available anywhereyou get your books. Yes, and
it's a fantastic book, so youshould go out and get it. Is
there anywhere else you'd liketo point people to
Unknown (50:26):
social media? If you're on Instagram or Tiktok, come
hang out. I post a few thingsevery single day.
Zachwindahl.com but primarilythis book, I think, will really,
really help people.
Joshua Johnson (50:37):
Excellent. Well, Zach thank you for this
conversation. Thank you forwalking us through the story of
Scripture. Thank you forfiguring out that it actually
does impact our lives. It bringslife and hope and joy. We have
the Spirit of the Living Goddwelling with us, and we're part
of the story that we couldactually see the kingdom of God
here on earth as it is inheaven. And we have a part to
(51:00):
play in the the reconciliation,redemption of all things, making
all things new with Jesus.
Fantastic. So Zach, thank you.
It was a fantastic conversation.
Thank you. Really appreciateyou.
Unknown (51:22):
Bye,
Our lives need to reflect the ways of the kingdom,
(00:03):
looking at what Jesus did, whathe preached, how he lived his
life, and having our livesbecome a reflection of that.
Unknown (00:22):
You Hello
Joshua Johnson (00:25):
and welcome to the shifting culture podcast in
which we have conversationsabout the culture we create and
the impact we can make. We longto see the body of Christ look
like Jesus. I'm your host.
Joshua Johnson, you know so manystruggle with the Bible, not
because it's irrelevant, butbecause they've never been given
the full story. My guest today,Zach Wendall, went from
confusion and disillusionment tofalling in love with scripture,
(00:48):
and now he's helping others dothe same. In this conversation,
we trace Zach's journey ofrediscovery, unpack the sweeping
narrative of the Bible andexplore how reclaiming the story
of God roots us in a better wayto live. We talk about why
understanding context matters,how the Bible invites us into a
kingdom worldview, and what itmeans to live under the reign of
(01:10):
King Jesus in the everyday Zachdoesn't just teach the Bible.
He's passionate about helpingpeople actually see it, engage
with it and let it shape theirlives. So join us as we lay out
a roadmap to the beauty andpower of the story of the Bible.
Here is my conversation withZach windahl. Zach, welcome to
(01:31):
shifting culture. So excited tohave you on. Thanks for joining
me.
Unknown (01:36):
Thank you so much for having me. This is awesome. I'm
really excited for thisconversation. I'm
Joshua Johnson (01:40):
excited to talk about the Bible today. Yeah,
it's a good topic. You like theBible. You talk about the Bible
a lot, but you I don't thinkyou've always liked the Bible,
or even you were struggling withyour faith for a while. How did
you discover a love for theBible? What happened to you?
Unknown (01:59):
There was a time in my life where I grew up seeing God
move in miraculous ways, and Iknew that he was good, and I
believed in him, and I believedin Jesus, and I was always
around Bible stuff, because Iwent I went to church, and I
memorized verses, and I knewstories, but I didn't understand
how it all tied together,really, or how it was supposed
(02:22):
to impact my life. So there wasa timeframe when I was in
probably 2014 or so, when Ireally started questioning
everything. I was surrounded bya lot of people that were
Christian, that weren't reallyliving out a lifestyle that I
expected Jesus to live. And thenI was around a lot of other
people that weren't believers atall. They were spiritual,
(02:45):
whatever that means. They wereBuddhist, like, whatever the
case. And they were so kind andso, like, just sweet to the
people around them. And I wasreally conflicted. I hit that
spot saying, God, I know you'rereal. But I don't even know if I
want to be associated with theseother people right now. And so I
(03:06):
said, I'm going to give twoyears of studying the Bible as
intensely as I possibly can. AndI was like, God, I need you to
show up. And I ended up doing Doyou remember that thing called P
90x in like, the early 2000slike a workout thing. Well,
there was a church that wasdoing b 90x so it was through
(03:28):
the Bible in 90 days. And I waslike, that sounds like a good
thing for me to do. So I readthe Bible in 90 days, and by the
time I was done with it, I waslike, that was way different
than I expected. It was. I knewstories, but I didn't know the
full story. And I was like, Ineed to study this even deeper.
And so I ended up choosing thisprogram out in Australia. I was
(03:52):
in Minneapolis at the time, andand anything Australia or beach
sounded like a really good ideato me, especially with some of
our winters up there, and so Ichose Australia and went out
there. We studied for like, 12hours a day, six days a week in
this really intensive program.
That's it, yeah, literally, likethat was, yeah, no big deal. And
(04:14):
like, if it was Genesis Week,for instance, you would read
Genesis five times throughduring the week, and then you
would create, like, your owncommentary on it. And I would
say, by day two of being there,I was sold out. I was all in. I
was like, any of my doubts oranything in the past were
(04:36):
because of people, not becauseof God. I'm going all in. And I
think that's such a commonthing, I don't know if you'd
agree, but a lot of people thatmay like deconstruct their faith
or fall away from the church,it's always, for the most part,
what I've seen is, is blamingother people for things, or it's
like my pastor did this, so itmade me fall away from the
(04:58):
church. Or these people in mysmall, small group were this
way, so I didn't want to be apart of it. But it's rarely,
like, ever fully about God andand I think that's kind of a
strange thing, where it's like,oh, I'm I'm leaving my faith in
God because of somethingsomebody else said. Like, if
somebody said something negativeabout my wife. I'm not gonna
(05:21):
leave my wife because of whatthey said or what they did. I
was going through that wholeperiod of what do I actually
believe? And when I spent timestudying scripture and diving
into the text, that's wheneverything changed for me,
Joshua Johnson (05:37):
I think because of that, and I think people are
falling away, deconstructingdoing things. Because the
people, I think, pastors, churchleaders, people, are like, Oh,
maybe we haven't discipledpeople well, maybe we haven't
done things well so that peoplewill will stay when things get
hard and difficult. And so oneof the ways that I think we
(05:58):
haven't done well in the past iswe've given people stories, but
not the story of the Bible, notthe whole narrative, 100% so
when you started to see thenarrative of Scripture, how did
that shift you in your thinking?
What does it do for us when wesee the full story?
Unknown (06:14):
I think when you break down and understand that it is a
historical document, that it'swritten to a specific people
group, and that Jesus is nothere to start a new religion.
He's the fulfillment of an oldreligion. And you break it down
that way, it's like, Oh, I wastalking to somebody the other
(06:35):
day, and they were like, Yeah,well, Jesus didn't want anything
to do with religion. It's like,that just means you didn't
understand the storyline ofScripture, because he wanted
everything to do with it, and hewas the fulfillment of the whole
Old Testament, and he had thewhole Old Testament memorized,
and as any good rabbi, Jewishteacher would would at that
(06:57):
time. And so I think for me, itwas like, Okay, if this is a
storyline from beginning to end,and I can see where I am in the
story as well, and make itpersonal and say, This is what
the kingdom of God is, and thisis what I'm signing up for, and
God wants to partner with me tobring this out into the world,
then that's when it shifted forme and and I talked to so many
(07:21):
people that I don't think a lotof younger people actually
understand their faith, and Ithink it comes from only being
told one verse on a Sunday as agood transitional moment between
a few stories, as you mentioned,and you leave encouraged for the
week in order to come back thenext Week. But you don't
actually understand the Bible alot of the time, and I think
(07:44):
that's a huge issue. And I'mreally hoping and believing that
there is a change going on inculture right now, and I think
there is where you have all ofthese new people that are coming
to church for the first time. Inthe past, it was always like it
was common to have a lot ofprodigals returning to the
church, but now what I'm seeingis people are coming for the
(08:05):
first time. They're being handeda Bible, and they're being told,
read this because you need to.
And people are like, I don'teven know where to begin. And
then they'll start a readingplan. And within three weeks,
it's like, oh, I have I'm givingup because I don't know what how
Leviticus even like. What am Ireading right now? You know? And
I think people just need theirhand held through the process.
(08:29):
And I think that's really what Ifeel called to do and dedicate
all of my work to. Is, how can Imake people be less overwhelmed
by the Bible in order to becomeconfident in their faith.
Joshua Johnson (08:41):
I know that when I went through my old testament
narrative and New Testamentnarrative courses, and then I
had to write the story of theBible through a specific lens,
so I chose honor shame lens andwalked through the whole Bible
through an honor and shame lens.
And what that looks like, itshifted a lot for me, I was so
excited about the story aboutthe Bible, and I could situate
(09:03):
myself, you know, in the storynow. So if you you have people
looking and go, Hey, I wasraised in church. I have all
these Sunday School stories. Iknow these things, but I'm not
quite sure how everything fitstogether. Can you walk us
through the narrative of theBible briefly and simply, so
that we could say, what is it?
Unknown (09:26):
Yes, 100% so it begins in with God creating everything.
And he created humans and placedthem in a garden, which was
perfect relationship with Him.
Essentially, it was a placewhere you could think of like
heaven and earth overlapping andbut he gave humans a choice to
either continue expanding thegarden and expanding the kingdom
of God on earth, or you couldchoose to partner with the ways
(09:50):
of the world. And humans choseto partner with the ways of the
world instead, and instead ofall of humanity God. Event.
Actually chose a specificperson, Abraham, to have a
covenant with, and to say, I'mgoing to, instead of choosing to
partner with everyone, I'm goingto choose one family, and
through that family, everybodyelse is going to be blessed. And
(10:12):
through these covenants and afew more covenants throughout
the Old Testament portion ofScripture, there's ups and downs
in the relationship with God.
There's things are great and andpeople are thriving, and then
there's times where they'retrying to do their own thing
because of the surroundingcultures and the ways of the
world really speaking into them.
And it was a spot where itwasn't going any further, and
(10:38):
they were stuck in a sin cyclewith sin and then sacrifices.
And the only way to completelyremove the sacrificial system
was through a perfect human. Andso Jesus came down as that
perfect human to be sacrificedso that his blood on the cross
can cover it for everyone. Andso now, as we are covered by the
(11:02):
blood of Jesus, as we have theHoly Spirit, now it's it's kind
of like before within the Gardenof Eden, where heaven and Earth
were overlapping everywhere thatwe bring the kingdom. Today,
there's little pockets ofoverlap of heaven and earth
overlapping, and we're on thistrajectory right now of the
kingdom expanding, where one dayeverything will be restored, and
(11:25):
sin will be completely removed,and all the effects of sin will
be removed like right now.
Tornadoes are because of the sincycle. Cancer is because of the
sin cycle. Chaos is and therewill be a time in the future
when everything is restored,where all of that will be gone.
(11:46):
And so for us today, asbelievers, we're pointing
towards that, and we're saying,I want to bring the kingdom of
God to my surrounding area. Sothat means bringing people hope,
bringing people peace, helpingthem find healing and
forgiveness and and showing themthat true forgiveness of sins is
only through Jesus, and if wechoose to partner with him, then
(12:10):
our lives are going to produce aton of fruit that that others
wouldn't be able to see. And sowe're on that process of moving
towards restoration right now.
Joshua Johnson (12:20):
Beautiful articulation, encapsulation of
the Bible and where we are rightnow, right? We're moving towards
restoration. We actually get tojoin Jesus in the reconciliation
and redemption of all things,which is crazy that we get to
participate in it. It isamazing. I love it. It's a
privilege that we get to be ableto partner with him, but and we
(12:42):
have Holy Spirit living with usand dwelling us, which is also a
crazy thing, that the Spirit ofthe Living God is within me and
you. I don't think people in therash of Christ I know like
Unknown (12:56):
that's a huge deal, and like the creator of the universe
wants to partner with you and I,what an honor. Like, we should
only approach him from a placeof awe and reference, because of
that, you know, like, that'samazing. So cool. You
Joshua Johnson (13:12):
know, in the Old Testament, there was, there was
the Spirit of God. So if we'rejust talking about the Spirit of
God, so the Spirit of God was inthe in the temple, the
tabernacle, as they're, they'rewalking, you know, through the
desert, through and in the OldTestament, and then, after Jesus
died, was resurrected, you know,the veil was torn and the temple
so that there and then the HolySpirit was given to us, so that
(13:36):
we are now the temple of God andcarry The presence of God. How
does that, that whole aspect ofthe Spirit and where he is,
impact the way that we live inour life, and what it is that we
get to do.
Unknown (13:52):
I don't think people even realize that they are the
temple through that part of thestory. And it's it's so
fascinating, because in the OldTestament, you have the
tabernacle and the temple andand when they dedicated the
temple, fire came down onto thealtar. And during the day, when
they would move the tabernaclefrom place to place, God's
(14:14):
presence was found in in a cloudand fire by night, and then in
Acts when you have the HolySpirit coming in, and they're in
the room, wind comes in, whichwe've seen with the temple and
the tabernacle, and tongues offire rest upon them, which we
saw with the temple and thetabernacle. And I don't think
people make that, thatconnection there, which is
(14:38):
really cool, that yes, you arenow the temple of the living
God, and everywhere that you go,you're bringing his kingdom, and
like that revelation right thereis insane. We should be
approaching him every single daywith worship, just as the
priests would if we believe thatwe are now priests. Is in the
(15:00):
kingdom of God, and He is oureverything. Worship should be a
lifestyle, and I think thatcomes from our work. If you're a
plumber, you can make worshipyour lifestyle is just as much
as any pastor can your job,where whatever you're doing, you
can worship God through that andhonor him in it. And I think
(15:25):
having that shift in mindset isso crucial in who we become and
how we live our lives that wethat we fall in love with the
act of worship. Any wisdom inScripture, so all wisdom
literature, the root of it isfear God and obey His commands
(15:46):
and whatever else you learn init. That's the root. And I think
that's missed a lot of the timesin at least in the younger
church in the West, it seemswhere you might go to church to
be encouraged, but the purposeof church is to worship God and
to equip the saints and thensend them out. And we miss,
(16:07):
oftentimes, that worship andthat awe and that reverence and
and fearing him in in a healthyway, and learning to hear His
voice and obey what He actuallysays, because by doing so that's
where true life transformationcomes, and that's where you're
going to see him moving in yourlife. And that's what he wants,
(16:29):
and that's what he that's whathe desires, and that's what he
deserves. Is our lives asworship, and if we miss that,
we're missing out on so much inlife. I think, would you agree
with that?
Joshua Johnson (16:42):
Yeah, of course.
And I think that there's twothings, I think, one in the
church today, I think we'restruggling with, how do we love
God and love our neighbor? Well,there's some parts of the church
will say, I'm going to be reallyheavy and just stay on the love
area, and I forget about thefear of God, and some are just
like fear and holiness and likethere's no love totally. So how
(17:05):
do those two interplay inScripture? And what is the love
of God and then the fear of God?
How does that play out for us?
Unknown (17:17):
Yeah, I think it's loving people and showing them
that God loves them so much thathe's giving them a way to live
that does result in change. AndI think in the younger church,
oftentimes it's come in howeveryou are, you're welcome, you
don't need to change. And that'sjust not what we see in
Scripture. It's once people comein, then they change because
(17:41):
they've dedicated their life toliving under King Jesus and
under his rule and reign. Andthat means there are things that
need to change in your life, andthe Bible is very clear on a lot
of things that we need to do inlife. And yes, loving our
neighbor is like loving Godloving our neighbor. That's the
two most important things. Butloving doesn't mean that we're
(18:05):
just accepting you for however,however you are. Loving means
saying, Hey, you're welcomehere. But once you actually come
in, you need to turn away fromthe ways of the world, because
if you read like John 316 andthen continue reading. In 17 and
18, God still hates thewickedness of the world, and
(18:27):
there needs to be a changethere. And if you don't want to
agree with the ways of theworld, you want to agree with
the kingdom of God, and He givesus an out there. I think from
the beginning, there's alwaysbeen choices that we've had.
There's tree of knowledge, ofgood and evil, there's Tree of
(18:48):
Life, there's Babylon, there'sJerusalem, there's kingdom of
God, kingdom of the world.
There's light, there's darkness.
We've always had the choicebetween the two, and from my
perspective, now it's like, whywould I ever Cho choose the ways
of the world? But I thinkSatan's very conniving and good
at convincing people that Hisways are better because of
(19:12):
judgment or whatever. And Ithink if people have that
understanding in that and thatshift, it'll it'll really help
them fall in love with God moreand realize that, okay, His
Holiness is is the root. Inorder to see his love for
people, it needs to be seenthrough the lens of holiness.
First, I heard a pastor or ateacher say that recently, and I
(19:33):
thought that was so good,instead of just looking at at
people through the eyes of love,looking at people at looking at
God through holiness and thenthe love of Him.
Joshua Johnson (19:44):
You've mentioned the kingdom of God a lot, and
you just said, we want to beunder the reign of King Jesus,
yeah. And so take us throughthis the story. What is the
Kingdom? I think in America, wehave a democracy. We don't have
a kingdom. Sometimes we're notlike, what is the. Yes. And what
is this language? This seemsarchaic, so take us through what
(20:05):
is the kingdom, and how doesthat play out? And how did Jesus
become king? And why are weunder his reign in rule
Unknown (20:12):
the the fourth covenant was with King David, and the
Jewish people were alwayswaiting for for the next person
that was like King David, thatwas going to bring them to
political a time of peace andprosperity politically. And so
they were expecting this Messiahto be that person that was going
(20:33):
to come in, that was going totake over the Romans and say,
No, this is the way things are.
Now. We're going to spread thiskingdom of God throughout the
world politically. And thenJesus came on the scene and was
like, well, the kingdom of Godis at hand. And you guys think
it's one way, but it's actuallya different way. It's it's a
spiritual way instead. So youhave these people that are so
(20:57):
set on political, Jesus freedom,and then all of a sudden, he's
on a cross. And think of howconfusing that would have been,
like, you have some of thedisciples in the end of Matthew
that are like, on the road of toEmmaus, and they're like, We
don't understand what happenedhere. Like, Jesus was supposed
to be this leader that we haveon earth that was going to bring
(21:21):
in this time of prosperity andpeace for all of the Jewish
people. And now he's dead. Itdoesn't even make sense to us,
but Jesus came in a wholedifferent way, in a spiritual or
he came physically, but theresults of his death was a
spiritual kingdom and aspiritual reign. And today we
believe that he is sitting onthe throne, and that in order to
(21:42):
call him Lord and and King meansthat our lives are now under his
ultimate authority. And so yes,we still need to obey politics
in your region. But although theone with the final, ultimate
say, is King Jesus. And I thinkthe kingship is missed a lot of
(22:04):
the time in the West, because,as you said, we don't, we don't
live under a kingdom right now,but to have a king means that
you, you that somebody's rulingand reigning over a people
group. And in Christianity, webelieve that people group as
followers of Jesus, that we'reunder that, and so our lives
(22:25):
need to reflect that, and needto reflect the ways of the
kingdom, looking at what Jesusdid, what he preached, how he
lived his life, and having ourlives become a reflection of
that, I think often in thechurch, like discipleship is
learning about the church andthen learning, like, how to
(22:45):
maybe how to study the Bible.
But it's not, it's not fullylife encompassing for the early
church. It really was. So do youever read like, where Jesus goes
up to the disciples and he'slike, come follow me. And they
literally drop everything to gofollow him. For us, it's like,
(23:07):
that doesn't make sense. Why?
Why would you leave your job andeverything behind just because
he said, Come follow me. Butthat's where, like, context is
so key. You need to understandthat. So Jesus was a rabbi. He
was a Jewish rabbi, or Rabbiwasn't the word, then it was
just a teacher or a sage, butJesus was this like high
authority in Judaism. And as aJewish kid, you would go to
(23:30):
school and you would beimmersed, and you would study
the scripture, and it would beyour everything. And by the time
you were 12 or 13, you'd havethe first five books of
Scripture fully memorized. Andthen if you were good enough,
you would continue in school,and you would continue
memorizing the rest of theHebrew Bible, or our Old
Testament, and by the time youwere 15 or 16, you would have
(23:52):
that memorized. And then if youwere good enough, you would go
up to rabbis, and you wouldprove that you were good enough
to them, and if they believedyou were, they would essentially
say, Come follow me, and lifeunder them would be fully
submersed. You would eat withthem. You would drink with them.
(24:12):
You would sit under theirteaching. You would do
everything that your rabbi did.
And so now you have thedisciples in our story that are
out working with their in theirfamily business, meaning that
they weren't good enough tocontinue studying under a rabbi,
even though that's theirgreatest heart desire since they
(24:35):
were a little kid, 345, yearsold, they've wanted to be under
a rabbi. And now you have arabbi come up to them and say,
Hey, you are good enough. Comefollow me. Of course, you're
going to leave everythingbehind. That would be the most
incredible thing ever to hear inthat moment. And I think those
(24:56):
little historical understandingschange. Your view of Scripture
completely, because now it'slike, okay, yes, Jesus is my
king. Jesus is my rabbi. Inorder to figure out how to live
out my life, I need to look atwhat he's doing, spend time in
the Word, spend time studyinghis words and learn to bring
(25:19):
that kingdom to to my day today.
Joshua Johnson (25:22):
Said context is key, and we need to know the
historical context and how toread Scripture. I think now,
since, if I'm in America, I havea couple of different lenses
that I read Scripture through.
One, I live in the Empire, whichis, which different, right? So
I'm, I'm reading from a, I don'tknow I could even say, an
oppressor type mentality, likeI'm more powerful than everybody
(25:45):
else, for sure, to it's veryhighly individualistic. And so I
have an individualized lens. Ialso look for for logic and
reason. There's so manydifferent ways that I approached
the Bible without ever thinking,How was this written and what
was the culture and context tothe people it was written to. So
(26:08):
take us. How do I take some ofmy own biases and lenses off?
How should I encounter theBible? Read the Bible. What is
the context and the culture.
Unknown (26:21):
It was written to specific people, and we need to
realize that that it was writtenfrom a specific person or from
specific people, written tospecific people dealing with
specific issues. Yes, it waswritten for us, but it wasn't
written to us, and that'scrucial. I don't know who said
that, but I use it all the timebecause it's so true, and it
(26:42):
comes down to understandingthem, their that person's
mindset. So the authors and theaudience had a Hebrew and an
Eastern mindset. And for us inthe West, we have a Western and
a Greek mindset. And so for us,we want to know data and facts,
and if God actually createdeverything in six days
(27:04):
scientifically, and how did hedo it? Because contradicts, like
what my science teacher said.
And we want to know thosethings. We want to know the
reasoning, and we want to callGod things like Omniscient and
Omnipresent, and we have thesebig words for him, but with the
Eastern Hebrew mindset, it'stotally different. They view
(27:25):
things in story and in parablesand in symbols a lot of the
time, and they want to they wantto share that God is like a
shepherd. God is like an eagle,and you're under his wings. They
want to talk in poetry andparables. For us, we read
Jesus's parables, and we'relike, Why can't he just say this
(27:47):
in two sentences and explainexactly what he means, or at
least, like, explain afterwardswhat he's trying to say? But for
them, it's a beautiful thing,because that's how they
understood life. For them, allof life is is spiritual. But for
a Greek mindset, it's often likespiritual is bad or spiritual is
good and physical is bad, andthey're two separate things. But
(28:10):
for them, that's not the case.
All of life was spiritual, andso I don't think we need to
learn to adapt our mindset to beEastern and Hebrew in all of
life, but we definitely need tounderstand these contexts and
and their views of life in orderto read Scripture properly and
(28:31):
to to spend time enjoying it andfalling in love with it. And I
think that mindset, once Iunderstood that mindset, it was
like a key that unlocked a lotfor me, and it changed my
questions of things and andopened it to to the reality and
the beauty of Scripture.
Joshua Johnson (28:50):
So if we don't read the Bible through that
mindset, the Eastern Hebraicmindset, how do we misread
scripture? What are someprominent ways that you have
seen people misreading scripturethrough a different lens.
Unknown (29:02):
Yeah, I think even like starting with poetry chapter
one, Genesis one, it's like Godcreated everything in six days
and then he rested. But forthem, it was you need to look at
who the audience was that thatwas being written to. So for the
audience, it was the Israeliteshad just come out of slavery and
and the gods that the Israeliteshad believed that humans were
(29:27):
created to work for them. Therewas no days off. Your entire
worth and value was based on howmany bricks you could make for
the Egyptians and for theirgods. For the author of Genesis,
who I believe was Moses, whoeveryou believe it is, was actually
writing to them, saying, Hey,your God is different. You're
(29:50):
made in His image. And he workedfor a specific amount of time,
and then he took a day off andrested. And Sabbath is something
that you're now. Going to do.
And instead of being created towork for him, you're created to
partner with him in his image,to bring his kingdom here. And I
think things like that is like,wow. Now my views of Genesis one
(30:14):
are completely different thanthey they were beforehand. And
like all of the Bible, 50% of itis story, a third of it is
poetry, and the rest isdiscourse. But I think for
people that grew up in thechurch or maybe have never read
the Bible before, they thinkit's more just a rule book, and
(30:35):
so they're approaching it fromOkay, I need to know whether or
not I'm allowed to have tattoosor have a beer tonight, like
they go to it, go to it withlike, what am I allowed to do?
What's sin and what isn't sin,when, in reality, that's just
not what Scripture is most ofthe time. And so that's why I
(30:55):
think it's so important for usto zoom out and to see it from a
big picture perspective. Becauseif you, if you do that, then
it's like, wow, what I wasapproaching scripture for in the
past had nothing to do reallywith what the actual story is,
is trying to convey and comeacross.
Joshua Johnson (31:17):
Yeah, it sounds like we often focus on the on
things downstream, and we seeall of the fruits of what is
happening in in life, and we'retrying to, trying to solve all
of those issues, but we never goupstream to say what, what is
actually making all of thischaos in the world, in our life.
(31:38):
And how can I actually get backto that place and zooming out is
such a important thing to do.
You know, I think a lot ofpeople are struggling, like,
Hey, I have the Bible with me.
And you, you said, even at thebeginning, people will say, I'm
going to start to read the Biblefrom front to back, and then I
get stuck in Leviticus. I justquit. I'm done. So if you talk
(32:00):
to people now, like, what isyour recommendation? How do, how
do people start with the Bibleso that they could get it into
their heads? There's a fewthings you said, right? Rabbis,
the people that there, they werememorizing Scripture, like they
got it in into their hearts.
Like it wasn't just, you know,around them, it was in them, and
so it's important for us to bein the Bible. So how do we do
(32:25):
it? What's your recommendationfor us?
Unknown (32:30):
Yeah, I think for starters, having that
foundational understanding ofthe storyline. So now, when you
read books like Hosea, you knowwhat's going on. Because for so
many of us, it's like, yeah, wejust go to church on Sunday and
the pastor preaches on this oneverse, and you don't know where
that is in the storyline ofScripture, and it's like, what's
(32:53):
the point of it? Then you know,and so for starters, it's
understanding the fullstoryline. Then I would say,
Yeah, reading plans are great.
But if you're stuck in a readingplan, and you've done it maybe
for the last 20 years, and it'snow monotonous to you, I would
say, switch it up completely. Dosomething crazy. Read the Bible
(33:13):
in 90 days. Read the Bible in 30days. Like do something because
I think when you when you'reused to doing the same thing
year after year, and all of asudden, you put a shift in it,
and it changes, and you and youchange the way that you study,
it's gonna reignite a newpassion for you. So I just read
the whole Bible in February, andby doing so, you're now on day
(33:36):
three, reading about things thatyou would normally be on, like
week 14, reading about, youknow, because you're just
getting so much more packed in,and you're able to see how
things relate with each other.
And I think there's when you'rewhen you're reading the Bible
over the course of a year, andit's just three chapters a day,
(34:00):
or whatever it ends up being,you might miss out on some of
the stuff that you read aboutsix months prior, but if that's
not for you, then start small. Iwould say, read a psalm a day,
maybe read through a chapter,whatever you have the mental
capacity for because all of ushave, we have different lives.
(34:24):
Some are extremely busy. Somehave more time. But I think we
can replace certain thingsthroughout our day with Bible
reading. So maybe you drive to acoffee shop every morning. Maybe
you're driving to work, you canlisten to it. There are. There's
so many amazing tools out thereto listen to. And so some people
might say, Well, the Bible, whenI listen to it, it's monotonous.
(34:47):
Well, great. There's a programcalled street lights, which is
like a Lo Fi music in thebackground. And in they like
they read Scripture to you, andit's not monotonous as. All. So
there's options out there. Ithink it's so easy for us to
make excuses for why we don'twant to read the Bible, when, in
reality, every excuse has agreat contrast to it. And so if
(35:13):
you can read it all in a year,awesome. Do it at least once
like you want to understand thestoryline of Scripture. If
that's too much for you, gosmall, read some, read the
Psalms, read a chapter at a timeand work your way through a
book. I'm an advocate forreading large chunks at once. So
instead of sitting down for fiveminutes, maybe sit down for an
(35:37):
hour and read, because you canread through so much text, and
then you're reading it in thethe lens that the original
author was writing in, like wecan read Philippians in what
1215, minutes, and for so manyof us were stuck on meditating
on two verses of Philippians,instead of realizing that this
(35:58):
was A letter written to thechurch in Philippi, to specific
people that were dealing withspecific problems. And so yeah,
there's going to be some versesand some scripture that's not
going to make sense to you, butI would always recommend to just
read through it anyways, becauseI think something does happen in
our spirit and something changeswithin us. And if you just
(36:20):
continue to show up and readthrough Scripture and are
consistent with it time and timeagain for over the course of
years, like we should all fallin love with scripture where
we're reading this for the restof our life by doing so you're
going to be 10 years laterrecalling stuff that you read
way long ago and realizing thatit actually did help you, even
(36:42):
though, in the moment, youthought that it had nothing to
do with with your situation andit made no sense to you, but I
would say just continue topower, power through and build
those habits, becauseconsistency in all things in
life, but especially with yourfaith, is where you're where
you're going to See it reallypay off, and you're going to
understand so much more.
Joshua Johnson (37:03):
Do you know Zach? We've had a lot of good
stories written in the in theworld, in the history of human
race, we've had a lot of goodstories. We've had a lot of good
books. But there's somethingdifferent in about the Bible,
multiple authors over over yearsand years, a lot of time. Why
(37:24):
has the Bible stood out? Why isthere life in the Bible, as
opposed to all of the othergreat books and literature that
we have that are good, and Iwant to be with them, but I
don't want to be reading themevery single day. But so what's
different about this Bible thatwe have?
Unknown (37:44):
Well, we believe that the Bible was inspired by God.
So it's not like it was writtenby God and dropped from the sky
and somebody found it, but webelieve that the Holy Spirit
inspired the authors ofScripture. So we they are
writing the way that they dowrite. But the overarching theme
of everything is inspired byScripture. That's why I saw this
(38:06):
infographic the other day. Oflike, all of the ways that the
Bible connects, and it's like1000s and 1000s of ways, which
is like fascinating to have 40plus authors over 1500 years on
three continents, and everythingthey wrote has a seamless thread
(38:27):
through it all, where it alllinks up and connects. Like even
just the book of Revelation has400 allusions to the Old
Testament in it, and you can'tunderstand that book if you
don't understand the OldTestament. And same with
everything Jesus said, like heknew scripture, he knew the Old
Testament, the Hebrew Bible inand out. And I don't believe
(38:48):
that you can understand what hesaid or did without
understanding the Old Testament.
And you we need to understandthe Bible fully from beginning
to end because it is all oneseamless story, and that is
because of the Holy Spiritinspiring the authors. And it's
the same Holy Spirit that wehave today, inside of us is the
(39:12):
one that inspired the authors.
So of course, when we're readingscripture, well, you can read it
one day and get one thing fromit, and you can read it tomorrow
and get something completelydifferent from it, because the
Holy Spirit speaks to us throughthe word. One of the greatest
ways to hear from God is throughHis Word. And so we need to
(39:36):
spend time in the Word. Andwhether, whether it we know
where to go right away. Ibelieve the Holy Spirit will
direct you where to go and whatto read. And I think we can pull
pieces from it that will impactno matter what we're going
through in life, and he can, andthe Holy Spirit will speak to
(39:58):
you through that.
Joshua Johnson (39:59):
I. Does knowing the story and being part of the
story help root us in a largeridentity? I think, you know, my
my thoughts are here in theculture that we're in. We, you
know, we really try to find whowe are from the inside of us.
The Bible is actually thenwritten for us so that we can be
(40:21):
rooted in a larger story,something outside of us that
actually impacts our lives. Andso it's it's different than the
culture around us, and I thinkthat we've been all over the
place, and so we have depressionand anxiety and loneliness. I
think because we're rootless, wedon't have many roots, and I
(40:43):
could go from one identity toanother identity to another
identity very quickly. How doesbeing a part of the story of the
Bible help root us
Unknown (40:53):
in the West? We're all very individualized, and we only
want to chase after what we feelis good or what we feel called
to do. But as a believer, wekind of get rid of we put down
our cross every day, or we putdown our ideas and desires a lot
of the time. And we're saying,Hey, I believe that life under
(41:15):
King Jesus is the ultimate lifethat I can live, and even if I
want to do something my way,oftentimes that may contradict
with what Scripture says. And bygiving him the ultimate
authority, by giving the Biblethe ultimate authority that it
is, we're saying whateverscripture says, that's what I'm
(41:37):
going to become and in the lifethat I'm gonna live out and so
believers as a whole, God'speople. He's saying, I wanna
partner with you as a wholepeople group and use you to
spread my kingdom throughout theworld. Instead of, hey, I wanna
partner with Zach to build Hiskingdom in order to sell more
(41:57):
books or whatever. That's notthe case at all. He's saying, I
want you to create tools andlive your life to in order to
empower my community of peopleand bring more people into the
community. Because as morepeople come into the community
and become followers of Jesus,we actually go out and bless the
(42:18):
rest of the world through it.
And I think it's God's kindness,oftentimes that leads people to
repentance and brings them intothe kingdom. And so if we can,
if we can be realize that we'repart of a community of people,
that we're rooted in this, thatGod's identity can be found in
Scripture, which, in return,shows us our identity. It gives
(42:39):
us our calling. It gives us ourpurpose in life, to go out to
make disciples and to blessothers and bring them in and to
show them, hey, this is whatlife is like in the kingdom, and
you can be a part of it too, aslong as you leave the ways of
the world behind and give yourallegiance to King Jesus, and if
(42:59):
you want to be a part of it,it's going to be a wild ride,
and it's going to change who youbecome as a person, but it's all
for good, even if out of thegate. It may not seem like it,
because he calls us to makechanges in our lives that can be
uncomfortable, especially in ourculture that says we are allowed
(43:21):
to do whatever we want, andthat's just not life in in God's
kingdom. And he's saying, thisis this is the way of the
kingdom. This is how you aresupposed to live your life. And
as followers of Jesus, we shouldagree with that. We can't take
some verses out of context andsay this is what I want the
(43:45):
Bible to to say or portray,because that's saying that we're
God and we have the ultimateauthority. But if we say that
God has the ultimate authority,that means what he says goes,
and it's not always easy, butit's always worth it, because
then we'll, we'll be part ofthis restoration project that
(44:07):
he's doing, and that's, that's areally fun place to be. It
Joshua Johnson (44:13):
is a fun place to be. I think some people use
the Bible to say, hey, well,they'll cherry pick verses so
that it could fit whatever Iwant it to fit. How does then,
knowing the story, knowing theBible, give us wisdom to engage
cultural issues like immigrationor abortion or the economy or,
(44:36):
you know, how does it impact ourour everyday life and the way
that we make decisions in theworld for our community,
Unknown (44:44):
yeah, because a lot of people have been harmed by it in
history. So I don't ever want tolike minimize that, but at the
root of it is love God and loveyour neighbor. And that doesn't
mean that everything we do needsto. To to be focused on other
people. I think as a community,we need to also become healthy,
(45:06):
and that means first looking atokay, am I loving God with my
life? Am I actually spendingtime worshiping Him? Spending
time in Scripture is myimmediate circle. Actually be
being changed for good. And thenI believe that we should have
believers in every sector oflife, in in entertainment and
(45:29):
politics and healthorganizations and immigration,
and we should be bringing Godlywisdom to those areas. And
instead of like, oh, theultimate place for a Christian
to to work is to be a pastor. Idon't think that's the case at
all. I think, I think God wantsus to being able to bring that
(45:50):
wisdom to places that may notactually have it and may not
actually be looking out for thegood of others. And I think once
we once we show that God'swisdom is our ultimate
authority, and that usually it'smost people would agree that it
is for the better of ourneighborhoods and our and our
(46:11):
cultures, then I think morepeople are going to want to be a
part of it and and askquestions. And I don't think we
need to necessarily be in thosepositions and like only be
preaching gospel, but I thinkour actions can oftentimes just
speak so clear, and then whenpeople do ask questions, we can
say, Oh yeah, it's because of myrelationship with God. It's
(46:33):
because I found this in theBible. And allow you, we need to
allow our lives to become areflection of that and our
testimony to be, to be used inways to spread the gospel and
bring more people in our I thinkI don't think we realize how
incredible our stories are, andhow much that can help people
(46:55):
really understand God. And so wegot to be sharing what God has
done in our lives, who we werebefore and who we are now, and
how he continues to partner withus in our day to day, and how we
believe that true wisdom isfound in Scripture, that story
alone should want to bring otherpeople in to also dedicate their
(47:17):
lives to this.
Joshua Johnson (47:18):
Zach, if you could talk to your readers and
give them your hope for theBible simplified. What do you
hope that they would get whenthey read this?
Unknown (47:26):
Yeah, so many people are overwhelmed by the Bible and
they feel like they don't havetime. And I think when people
are confused by something, theyjust push it away and don't
engage with it at all. So thisbook was written so that you
it's 40 really short chapters,three to four pages per chapter,
bringing you through the entirestoryline of scripture in order
(47:46):
to bring some clarity to that sothat you do build that
foundational understanding ofthe Bible, not to replace
scripture at all, but to havethat foundation so that you can
fall in love with scripture therest of your life and be
confident in what you actuallybelieve.
Joshua Johnson (48:01):
Fantastic. I think they need to do that. As
we get this the narrative ofScripture, what it is, unpack
it. We could see it, we know it.
We could situate ourselves inthe story. It makes all the
difference. Makes all thedifference. So it's fantastic. I
really hope people go out andget the Bible simplified,
because it is really, reallygood and a necessary tool for us
as believers good. I have acouple quick questions for you,
(48:26):
Zach at the end. One, if you goback to your 21 year old self,
what advice would you give?
Unknown (48:33):
I would say, do one small thing towards your goal
every single day, whether youfeel like you have time or not.
I think as a 20 something, it'slike, I'm gonna work really hard
towards something on Tuesday,because that's where I have
time. And then if it doesn'twork in the next in the next two
months, I'm gonna drop it andtry something new. And I think
(48:57):
if most people have a goal ofwhat they want to accomplish or
where they want to be, and theybreak, break it down into small
chunks every single day andcontinue working towards it,
then you're going to see thesuccess of it much faster than
you would if it's just a ton offocus on a small amount of time.
And if I would have known thatwith life, with business,
(49:20):
especially because I have a hugeheart for like entrepreneurship.
If I would have known that, itwould have changed my business
strategy, and then also with theBible, instead of just spending
time in scripture on Sunday, ifI spent little chunks every
single day during the week, itwould have compounded to so much
more knowledge and andrelational wisdom and
(49:41):
understanding that I didn't havein my early 20s.
Joshua Johnson (49:45):
Anything you've been reading or watching lately
you could recommend, ooh,
Unknown (49:49):
I really love NT Wright's stuff. So I've been
going through some of his booksrecently. So like simply Jesus
and simply Christian, just.
Visiting some of those. And Ithink everybody should, should
read those. Surprised by hope isanother one. He's got really,
really great thoughts. You
Joshua Johnson (50:09):
can never go wrong with recommending. NT,
right. Yes, fantastic. So that'sthat's good. The Bible
simplified is available anywhereyou get your books. Yes, and
it's a fantastic book, so youshould go out and get it. Is
there anywhere else you'd liketo point people to
Unknown (50:26):
social media? If you're on Instagram or Tiktok, come
hang out. I post a few thingsevery single day.
Zachwindahl.com but primarilythis book, I think, will really,
really help people.
Joshua Johnson (50:37):
Excellent. Well, Zach thank you for this
conversation. Thank you forwalking us through the story of
Scripture. Thank you forfiguring out that it actually
does impact our lives. It bringslife and hope and joy. We have
the Spirit of the Living Goddwelling with us, and we're part
of the story that we couldactually see the kingdom of God
here on earth as it is inheaven. And we have a part to
(51:00):
play in the the reconciliation,redemption of all things, making
all things new with Jesus.
Fantastic. So Zach, thank you.
It was a fantastic conversation.
Thank you. Really appreciateyou.
Unknown (51:22):
Bye,
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