December 8, 2025 • 53 mins
In this powerful conversation, I sit down with Valentyn Syniy, president of a theological seminary in Kherson, to explore what it means to lead, shepherd, and hold on to hope in the midst of war. When Russia invaded Ukraine, Valentyn lost almost everything - his home, his church community, and the entire seminary campus he helped build. Yet in the chaos of evacuation, the trauma of displacement, and the destruction of his city, he discovered a deeper sense of calling and a renewed understanding of God’s presence in suffering. We talk about spiritual leadership under siege, the impossible decisions families face when war arrives at their doorstep, the wound and weight of leaving or staying, the formation of pastors for a traumatized nation, and the surprising ways God rebuilds what has been shattered. Valentyn’s story, captured in his book Serving God Under Siege, is both heartbreaking and hopeful - a gripping reminder that faith can survive the fire and that the voices of Ukrainians must be heard. This episode invites you into a story of resilience, courage, and a theology forged under pressure.
Valentyn Syniy holds master’s degrees in theology and history and a doctorate in theology. Since 2006, he has served as president of Tavriski Christian Institute, an evangelical seminary in Ukraine.
Valentyn's Book:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:38):
I'm preparing my President's speech for student
and August, 28 29 Hello.
Joshua Johnson (00:47):
Conversations about and the impact belongs to
the body of Christ, look likeJesus. I'm your host. Joshua
Johnson, before I never has away of revealing to what we hope
in and what we call home. WhenRussian forces invaded Ukraine,
Valentin Sunny, the president ofa theological seminary in
(01:07):
Kherson, had to make impossibledecisions in real time,
decisions about his family, hisstudents, his calling and his
country, his home, his church,the entire seminary he led were
eventually destroyed, yet in therubble and the loss and the
relentless pressure of war,Valentine discovered a deeper
faith, a reimagined vision and atheology shaped not by comforts
(01:31):
but by crisis. In thisconversation, he tells the story
behind his book, serving Godunder siege, a story first
titled in Ukrainian, the manwhose home was stolen. We talk
about what it means to shepherdpeople while experiencing the
same trauma they're livingthrough. How to make decisions
when staying and leaving bothfeel like wounds, how hope
(01:52):
functions when the visible worldgives you none and what it means
to form pastors for a churchliving under invasion. Valentine
offers not just an account ofsurviving war, but a testimony
of God's presence in shatteredplaces, a reminder that even in
the world's darkest corners,Faith can deepen, communities
can rise and love can endure.
This conversation is sobering.
(02:14):
It's honest, it's full ofsurprising beauty. It invites us
to see Ukraine not as headlines,but as people, people whose
stories deserve to be heard. Inthis conversation, Valentin
sometimes uses an interpreter sowork through the language, even
though sometimes it is difficultto understand, it is well worth
(02:35):
your patience to listen, tolisten deeply and to understand
what is happening in the Ukraineat the moment, this story is
well worth your patience andyour listen. So here is my
conversation with Valentin.
Sonny, well, Valentin, welcometo shifting culture. Thank you
so much for joining me. Reallyexcited to have you on. Thank
(02:56):
you. Thank you. You've beenthrough a very, very difficult
time. We're going to be talkingabout your book in English,
serving God under siege. Youfirst wrote it in Ukrainian, but
we're talking about the the warin Ukraine, as you were leading
a seminary in the midst of theRussian invasion and coming in
and that you had to figure outhow to relocate, to evacuate and
(03:18):
actually have theologicaleducation happen during the
invasion, during a war, which isa very hard thing at the
beginning of your Your prefaceof the English language version
that I have here. You talk abouthome because you're talking
about the difference betweenhome in Ukraine. Can you tell me
(03:39):
and give me a definition of whyhome is so important to the
message of this book, and whatis it in Ukrainian that gives us
a little bit more information ofwhat you're talking about here.
Unknown (03:56):
Yeah, think it's a really great name, a great great
question, because my book inyour Kenyan, Ukrainian language,
have named man whose home wasstolen. This is mostly narrative
about my experience, and I'mstart ask this question about
definition of home after publishhouse Edmonds suggest change
(04:20):
name, because I'm understand,for me, like cranials home, it's
something very, very, veryimportant. Of course, in this
book, I'm not talking abouthome, but after this
conversation, I'm stoppedthinking what's home means for
me and what I'm understand ifcompare Ukrainian culture and
(04:40):
Americans in United States, mostpeople, it's immigrants and live
in this culture, in differentidea of home and roots, and for
me, personally, home, it's notquestioned about house, about
buildings, because my buildingslike roof and walls, it's exist.
(05:03):
I'm talk. I'm lose my home, andI mean about people and
community. Because for me, homemaybe means three meanings, it's
my family, but mostly not aboutonly my family, with my wife,
but in bigger definition, withmy parents, with my uncle and my
(05:26):
nephew. Because in our culture,people, time to time, you. Have
this events, some holidays andbigger family, have celebration
time to time. Second what Iunderstand it's George, because
in Western culture, people thinkabout George for place
(05:51):
that gives some kind of serviceto a person.
But in my in my understandingI'm I'm stay and I am with one
church for all of my life, Iunderstand where is different
ladies stay. I understand thechurch. It's around 300 people,
(06:12):
and I'm one of the pastor inthis church, but I understand
this is like home. Because afterI'm relocated with seminary,
with youth from our church, I'munderstand in different church,
you change your mentality aboutrelation with God and relation
with people, because if you stayin one church, like 25 years or
(06:36):
30 years, you build relation,you go through conflict, you
understand your sanctificationin different idea and third
level, it's my home city,because I'm born in same city. I
was at university in same city,married in same city, ordained
for pastors ministry. Have firstjob. My children is born, and if
(07:01):
I go in some street, I knowpeople from my school, from my
job, from job, and this iscommunication. This is my home,
and home like family, likechurch and city, and lose
everything, because most peoplefrom my church live, immigrate
(07:21):
or relocate, and, of course, myfather stay in Kherson with
church. But this is differentchurch because it's now it's
mostly refugee or people whovisit church after war start.
And if talk about my city beforewar, it's good side of city,
350,000 and now it's less than50,000 it's not enough people
(07:48):
for
Joshua Johnson (07:50):
this city exist.
Take me into a place where youhad home, you had your your job,
your family, you had TCI, youryour institution that you were
leading, or the invasionshappened. You were getting ready
because you heard rumors ofinvasion that it could come
soon. You had an evacuation planready to go, take us into that
(08:13):
place where you were starting tomake plans even before the
invasion happened. Why were youtalking about evacuation?
Unknown (08:25):
Usually, in my work, every November I'm with the
United States, to report aboutour ministry, about our
education ministry and missionswork in outside of Ukraine and
in 2,021st I'm visit UnitedStates in November, with last
November and in this month, adifference organization start
(08:49):
talk about possible invasion.
And people suggest me evacuationor moving a couple time before
war. And I'm thinking, say it'snot possible for my family only,
and I need be with ministry. I'mstarting to communicate with my
friend who have experience inthe United States Army, he
(09:11):
immediately, and he consulted usabout make this evacuation plan.
Of course, it's not workexcellent, because Russian start
war very, very quickly. And iftalk about our area, our city,
it's nearby. Crimea and Russianafter maybe five, six hour, will
(09:37):
be nearby our city, ourevocation plan not work,
excellent, but because I havethis evacuation plan, TCI can
special bus to create people andwork for this strategy. And this
is our organization. I remember,after maybe two years, one
(10:01):
gentleman talk with me, maybe itwas one more than two years, and
he say, in this similarsituation, usually, organization
no change to exist because ECIlose more than 40% of our
income. Because 40% of ourincome connect with our
location, small businesses forsupport our ministry at ECI lose
(10:26):
a lot. Professor who. Immigrateor who stay in occupation after
nine months, TCI lose fivebillions because our campus was,
have 15 acres and five billions.
Everything was lose library.
It's 30,000 books. And afterthis, usually organization no
(10:48):
change to exist, because Godsend the special workers who
help us in this evacuation plan,our organization can go through
this stress, through thiscritical situation, difficulty,
difficult situation, yeah, andexist.
Joshua Johnson (11:12):
So you have a plan in place, and as soon as
the invasion starts and the warstarts, you say this, this plan
may not work. What is it like?
The beginning of of something tomake quick decisions as a
leader, to try and evacuate. Howdo you shift and adapt your
(11:32):
plans to what was happening onthe ground?
Unknown (11:38):
These good questions, because after worst time,
understand something aboutleadership and our leader
logical classes, I'm say maybe90% of our plan. It's worked.
The biggest part it's not workbefore evacuation, TCI,
(12:00):
communicate with bus company andmake agreements with bus company
about People First from thiscompany, take our people from
evacuate, because in Ukrainian,not everyone family have car.
It's different economic anddifferent logistic. And because
(12:21):
this, our biggest challenge ishave enough busses to evacuate
people approximately in 7am inday after Russians start bombing
because the Russians startbombing us in 5am approximately
in 5am and in 7am my co worker,who communicate with logistic
(12:44):
company, he called me and say,and this driver say, no ever
hate You because it's dangerous.
And TCI take some money from ourstabilization fund and buy first
bus to evacuate people in week,maybe TCI buy two more busses,
and later, one more and maybe incouple more months, and evacuate
(13:09):
people from frontline and decidethis is one of the first
Ukrainian organization. It'smaybe not the first, but one of
the first who start evacuationpeople from frontline. If you
have a vacation plan, it's helpyou, maybe for 90% 80% it's
better if you didn't havebecause if you didn't have
(13:32):
evacuation plan, you will be instress. But every hour, worker
understand what people need do,and our team maybe seven time
talk with our worker in Januaryand February about evacuation,
because for people, it's it'shard to make this decision.
Joshua Johnson (13:53):
In that decision, I know that someone,
some people in your family, alsodecided to stay, and then you
decided to evacuate. How do youmake a decision in moments like
that, whether to stay or whetherto evacuate? And why are those
both can be both good decisionsand they could both be bad
(14:16):
decisions. What does it looklike to figure that out?
Unknown (14:20):
It's really hard questions for me, and by the
way, now I'm working with to myfriends about theological
question in time of war. And onetheological questions. It's
dilemma between leave or stay.
This is huge dilemma, andTertullian, maybe first, who
(14:40):
start thinking about this. Thisis good questions, because my
decision it's go with ourschool, with our seminary, and
my father, who lead pastor insame church, I'm ordained, he
made decision to stay. And thisdecision not only in ministers,
but in family, in one family,father and my mom made decision
(15:05):
to stay, and myself and to mybrother and one sister my
decision to leave, and this isbroken heart, of course,
leadership decision and our deeptheology, it's work immediately
and stress, because what you doin this situation, it's your
(15:25):
practical theology, it's yourpractical leadership. So. I'm
thinking, my father absolutelyright because he stay with
church, and I'm thinking, I'mright because I'm the student.
Now, after three years, Iunderstand at church and
seminary, he have differentvisions and have different
(15:47):
missions. And a mission forchurch. It's help people in
location. And because this, myfather make really hard decision
and stay and serves people. Andmy decision prepare new
generation of leaders and savedstudent and second one, because
(16:08):
in our area, TSA, have thebiggest number of international
connection, and I'm beforeevacuation with leaders of our
church and ask advice. And I'llsay what you suggest. And most
of local pastors say you needleave to build this partnership
(16:30):
relation to support ourchurches. If work start and this
second, because two of thesedecision connect with your
missions, your personalmissions, and missions of your
part of church,
Joshua Johnson (16:51):
you work, I think that's a that's a helpful
distinction for people. It's toknow what is your mission,
what's the vision. It helps thento make a good decision. I
worked in the Middle East for along time, and I worked with war
refugees, and so I was sittingin living rooms with people who
lost everything. Lost theirhome. How do you, as you
(17:15):
evacuate people and move them toa new location? How do you
shepherd people through the lossof home, through the loss of
what they have
Unknown (17:27):
good questions yesterday, mortgage, Ruby,
difficultfor me in the beginning to to
shepherd others, because I wasgoing through the Same kind of
thing.
No subliminium, fundamental thepastors
(17:53):
and later, your foundation foryour shepherding is your
experience.
Yes, when we remember the storyof two disciples after Jesus was
(18:58):
crucified, when they werewalking along the road. Why were
they so sincere with oneanother? Because they had a very
similar experience. They wereinvolved in an in the same kind
(19:18):
of job, insane company, unique,and they both had the same
situation that happened to theirboss.
Animal, missed this nice.
They could be very open and notbe shy to share their
(19:38):
experience, and thenwhen a stranger comes up, they
started defendingthemselves, and
they said, Don't you know whathappened? They did they were
afraid of to hear somecriticism,
(20:01):
but Michelle ties to opensource. But again, is
fundamental pastors fromso a similar experience can be a
good foundation for forshepherding
others, not at any moment. Yeah,but this is not the only thing
as long like not the only thing.
(20:21):
The most important thing isJesus, Jesus, who lives in our
heart and the Holy Scripture,
Joshua Johnson (20:29):
what you said is, it was difficult for you at
the very beginning because youwere going through the same
thing. That's a that's a hardplace to be in. How do you bring
in support during that time foryou, as you're leading and
you're trying to guide people ina place where you're not in your
(20:50):
location, everything isdifferent. Was there any support
for you? And what did that looklike?
Unknown (20:57):
What watching Global purchase now leadership pretty
much to a new, sick, double,triple.
Well again, to be honest,leaders need to understand that
not always they will be able toreceive this support from others
at the prison. Why? Leader ofpolitics and
(21:21):
its leaders call from God. Itsleaders call to receive this
support from God. Even thoughyou don't receive any support
from people, we do want toreceive this support from
people. Doesn't always work,not alone and just literally,
and you really society.
(21:57):
I was really upset when I heardother people saying that, you
know, like when we help, helpevacuate others, someone would
say he is a leader. He Hedoesn't need to this support
you, because he leaders, but,but through him, you can help
(22:18):
different people from and in thebeginning, it's a wounded me,
but later, God changed somethingin in my emotion, and I
understand this is role ofleader, of course, in this book
I am say About this in day ofmarriage of my daughter got
(22:41):
support me through one churchfrom United States. But this not
happens often in leadership.
It's very important teach Georgeabout support leaders. It's very
important teach George tosupport pastors. But sometimes
it's not happens.
Joshua Johnson (22:58):
I'm sorry that's a hard position to be in, yeah,
but it is, it is hard, it isdifficult. And so what did
keeping education going throughdislocation look like? How did
you continue the work whileyou're dealing with war and
(23:20):
displacement
Unknown (23:21):
in the beginning, from February to maybe June, July,
tsci mostly working humanitarianquestions, mostly in
humanitarian help in theMedicine question, evacuation
questions, send people throughfrontline to send some stuff to
(23:42):
Kherson, work through riverNipper or volunteer. It's really
hard, but in June or in July,it's meeting in Lviv city. And
in this meeting, it's seventhseminary. It's all of the
seminary I connect with Baptistunion Ukrainian Baptist union
(24:02):
churches and seminary in thestand in time of war, especially
the first year, approximately500 pastors leave the country.
Some pastors was kidnapped. Ofcourse, it's not so many, but
couple pastors. Some pastor wasdrafted to army, and our
(24:23):
churches in first year loseapproximately 500 pastors. It's
huge number. It's huge number,because this our seven
seminaries start thinking aboutquick prepare pastors in new
reality because church mentalityor church ministry before war
(24:45):
and church ministry after warstart its defense missions of
God in earth. And because this,our seminaries start make really
short one year or two yearscourse for pastors to prepare
pastors in this new reality. Andthis, I start communicate with
(25:09):
local churches in ivanovan Kiss,find one, and it's not really
small, but not like this. I haveif three floor building in
ivanovan Kiss, outside of city,and ran this building and start
education and God, teach me alot about this. Because this
(25:34):
year, for me, if talked about2022 it's really hard year
because this meeting was sevenseminary. It will be in July,
approximately, and in the end ofAugust, I'm preparing my
president speech for student.
And August, 28 29 one pastorfrom his room called me and say,
(25:56):
your campus destroyed Russiandestroyed your campus. This
happens three day before I needsay my president speech in front
of a new student, and I'mchanged my President's speech, I
am take a place. And destroyplate. And talk mostly about how
(26:18):
Jewish people remind aboutdestroyed temple, and how be
leaders in time of brokennessand my my speech in 2022 in
September. And talk about how beleader, how be hands of God in
(26:38):
time of brokenness. And in thisyear, God make a lot visual
fruit of our ministry, becausesometimes you work to cut and
you didn't see fruit of yourministry. And this year, God
prepare a lot and help us a lot.
(26:59):
And in the end of year, I amglue plate, pieces of the plate,
and talk mostly about Japanesetradition, kenzuki. And I'm
saying, God, glue everything.
God provide everything. God helpyou go to through this wound
situation and in Apple day,Russian destroy kahovka dam and
(27:23):
our Oblast have been Yes,flattered after this. It's
interesting, because sometimeyou think, Oh, God, everything.
Put anything together. Yeah, puteverything together. And then
couple day, kakhovka Dumpflooded my city,
Joshua Johnson (27:44):
when everything was destroyed and flooded the
city. And there you're feelinglike, hey, there might be some
repair. Here we're gluing thingsback together, and things are
destroyed again. How does that?
How do you get through that? Howdo you help others get through
things like that? Where it isrelentless, it's it happens, we
(28:06):
feel like there's something goodcoming, but then it's another
setback. Yeah, what does thatlook like?
Unknown (28:16):
It's hard. It's hard.
It's not easy. Maybe differentidea happen in these questions.
First, maybe I'm thinking abouttheology of hope because I'm
thinking modern church not teachenough about theology of hope.
And sometime our hope connectwith visual stuff, and you think
(28:38):
about Christians in firstcentury and second century and
diachylian neuron Christianshave this theology of hope. And
think about heaven and thinkabout strong hope, God, because
sometimes you looks what brachdeal it, enemy, enemy do. But if
(29:02):
you understand how your godstrong, this has helped you go
through this situation, throughthis terrible stuff. First, my
answer is geology of hope. Andsecond, in our life, of course,
people have a lot of wound I'mthinking the biggest problem, if
(29:23):
you're built, your lifestyleonly think about your wound, but
(30:32):
you think about your wound, andyou need think about Holy Spirit
gift. Very important tounderstand what your missions
and your missions, what yourunique, your unique in your womb
and you unique in your holyspirit gift. And if you
understand this, this has helpedyou for istlatza to be healed,
(30:56):
to be healed. And this is how tobe effective in ministry and
extend your missions, why youlive in this world, not why you
have church, how you can helppeople, your experience of womb
and how you help people withyour gift.
Joshua Johnson (31:19):
What is the difference, then, of serving? So
if you're you are educatingpastors for war and brokenness
instead of a time of peace. Whatare some of the things that you
need to prepare pastors to leadin the midst of war and
(31:40):
brokenness rather than in themidst of peace.
Unknown (31:43):
Good questions maybe a first time tell about my
experience of my study, becauseI remember one of my my first
study in bachelor's level, and Iremember my class about Old
Testament. And my professor, inintroduction about Old
Testament, He say Old Testament,writing in time of war and
(32:08):
occupation. And he say, Me thisin 1998 and from 1998 to. Before
full invasion, this means, forme, nothing. This is only, only
information you hear some day,many, many years ago. You hear
(32:32):
Bible writing time ofoccupations, after war, start
some verses from Bible starttalk with me in different ways,
because you start seeing thischapter or this verses, and you
start to understand normally ina level of Muslim mind, not only
(32:57):
in level of mind, but in levelof heart. And this may be held,
of course, if talk about asituation or prepare pastor or
youth leaders, not everyone havesame experience. Some people
from area where is not war, andyou need to understand modern
(33:19):
war, it's very different, likeif talking about Israel or
difference area, maybe 50kilometers or 100 kilometers, 70
miles, it's drones and missiles,and in 70 miles, people go to
coffee shop and different world.
People live like like in Europeand in 70 miles, people lose
(33:43):
everything because thissometimes people who live 70
miles or 100 mile after twoyears, people tired about work
and start yet, of course, ifsome relatives, what drafted to
army, this family, of course,will be prayed every day. And
(34:04):
because this need preparechurches in different
understanding of missions,missions for God, not missions
for international, missionswork. How need short people some
of our classes, it's classes inthis different reality. Of
course, in this situation,people in seminary in Christian
(34:29):
school start talking aboutdifferent questions, like
hospitality ministry withwounded people, trauma, healing
difference this chaplaincyministry, because a lot
soldiers, a lot pastors now,sort like chaplains in army,
(34:50):
your
Joshua Johnson (34:53):
whole seminary, you lost your Buildings, you
lost your library, had 30,000books you have right now. So
anybody watching video, you havea book that was burned. Losing
30,000 books is a lot of books.
Unknown (35:10):
Yes, it's interesting because Russian soldiers most of
books, it's burn, and some bookstake in, bring,
they took the books to thedumpster,
and want the pastor from Khersonchurches go to these dumpers,
dumpster, dumpster, and take 18or 20 books and say, of course,
(35:35):
it's not possible to use thesebooks, because this book
everything destroyed, but hebring less than 20 books. And
this is simple, what Russian dowith our library. And it's
interesting because God's makethis special kenzuki For
Christians, because in November,2023 Lincoln Christians
(36:00):
University from Illinois,connect with us and say this
university won't donate for usaround 30,000 books. Yes, it's a
little bit less than TCI have,but this university, with
partnership in theological booksnetwork and with scholar
(36:22):
leaders, donate for us thesebooks. And in this summer, in
August, three librarian from twofrom United States and one from
Austria, visit us to catalog isaid these books and Tsai open
new library in same day afterthree years, in August 29 Open
(36:48):
Library for glory of God,because I destroyed our library
in August 29 in 2022 and God'shelp us open this library in
same day in three years.
Joshua Johnson (37:03):
That's beautiful. Tell me what is
happening in Ukraine now, what'sthe feeling in the country? What
do we need to know about what'sgoing on and how we can stand
and pray and be with. People ofUkraine,
Unknown (37:19):
yeah, you need to understand, Ukraine is big
country. This is the one of thebiggest country in Europe,
because this is differentsituation in our country. If
talk about frontline likeKherson, Zaporizhzhia, kharkav,
Dnipropetrovsk and Donetsk area,it's war every day. People not
(37:41):
talk a lot about my homeland,Kherson, but this City bombing
every day. In some day, it'sapproximately 500 600 missiles
for every day. It's crazy. Ofcourse, it talk about city who
(38:02):
far from frontline, it's moresafety, but in our country, not
enough people to draft to army,because population, Ukrainian
population, is many times lessthan Russians. And because this,
it's very important have enoughpeople in economical sector and
(38:23):
in military sector. And now it'snot enough people who can serve
and who can work some restaurantnot work, because not enough
people to make business. And iftalk about feeling most people
didn't have enough hope anddidn't have enough yeah, maybe
(38:44):
hope in future, because mostpeople connect hope with visual
stuff, and if talk aboutpolitical stuff, yeah, people,
especially who nearby frontline.
But of course, people want savedcountry and the she shot protect
protect country. Opinions won'tprotect country and protect
(39:05):
Europe, because Russian, time totime, attacked Poland Baltic
country and yeah, how
Joshua Johnson (39:16):
has this transformed you and your your
relationship with God. How doyou view view God now
differently than before the war.
Unknown (39:28):
I'm not lose my face.
My face more deep. Maybe twostory first or first, people
really won't see miracle verysoon in your life, and people
really want, if someone pray,God immediately answer, and I'm
understand your relation andyour trust. God not negotiable.
(39:53):
Not be, mustn't be. Mustn't be.
Connect with miracle answer.
Sometime, God, talk with youthrough Holy Spirit, but you
didn't see miracle. Because ifthink about Abraham, Abraham
have answered in time he 76 and99 and no miracle. It's only
(40:19):
communication here, becausethis, you build relation with
God sometime you didn't haveanswer in medical way. Of
course, I'm warned, but now I'mnot expect this. This is maybe
first one. And if talk about howmy hope and how my understanding
(40:45):
this life transform now, if youread Revelation, you see couple
pictures about Jesus, and thishas helped me in this stressful
situation, because in first,second and third chapter, you
(41:06):
see Jesus who pelosocinik, highpriest, high priest, and he
communicate With churches. Andthese churches have different
experience. Have differentproblem. Some churches have
problem with heresy, someproblem. Some churches have
problem with prosecution fromsociety, some problem have some
(41:30):
churches have problem with womenor leadership or money. Some
churches really good, have goodsituation, and Jesus say, I am
highest priest, and I am lead bychurches. If think about our
situation, about churches inUkraine and maybe in United
(41:52):
States, not everything good inour church. Our churches have
problem, but if you understand,Jesus now our high priest, and
he help us, and He lead ourchurches, and he protect our
churches, this helped me notexpect something not realistic
(42:15):
from church. Of course, churchneed focus to sanctification.
Church need be church. Churchmust be sold. But I understand
Jesus protect and Jesus lovechurch later in the Revelation,
you see Jesus like maybe not seein the beginning, John, hear
(42:39):
lying voice, and he looks, andhe see lamb, and this lamb was
wound, and he understand this isJesus, who creator, and who
watches the world. And in ourworld, not everything good in
our world, it's a lot problem,ecological problem, covid
(43:03):
problem, illness problem, a lotproblem, sometimes with water.
But Jesus, watch what happenswith this world. And the end of
story, Johnson, this white kingin white horse and only his robe
in blood. This is blood ofJesus, and he say he king. And
(43:27):
if talk about political area,not everything good in our
political maybe only in theUnited States, everything good
was political? A lot of problemwith political situation,
political, corrupt, political,not a in God's roles. But if you
understand Jesus, understandwhat kingdoms and he have his
(43:50):
voice in this question. And thisis little bit help me, because
sometime life not not easy. Ofcourse, I know Americans
mentality Life is good, butreality, life not is good, not
always, not always good, notall. Life, sometimes it's hard.
Joshua Johnson (44:21):
Yes, it is. I don't know if we could answer
this quickly, because it's a bigquestion, but did your your
thoughts on the peace of theKingdom of God and peace
building and peacemaking? Hasthat shifted or changed. Have
you learned anything of what itlooks like to be a peace builder
(44:45):
and bring the peace of thekingdom of God into places?
Unknown (44:50):
It's hard question for Ukrainians. And of course, if I
start talking about peacebuilding, some people
immediately start thinkingpolitical level. For some
Ukrainians, it's really hardquestions. Maybe you remember
some journalist asked ourpresident, and he asked about
(45:15):
forget Russians and ourpresident say, Forgive, forgive.
And you say, budim de Pristina,we will never forget. We will
never forgive. And this istheological understanding for
some Ukrainians, because someUkrainians believe if you
forgive Russian, it's mean,Jessica,
(45:39):
if you have forgiven Russiansfor what they have done, you
forgot Nashua that 1000s ofUkrainians were killed in this
war,and because this is womb, but
I'm thinking our forgiveness andneed connect with our relation
with Jesus. And this is not, noteasy questions. And of course,
(46:02):
many Ukrainians now think ifsome some Christians start
talking about forgiveness, manyUkrainians say it's political
questions. But if talk aboutthese questions, I'm
understanding at least fourlevel four built relations
because it's personal relations.
(46:23):
It's one level, and this will bedifference in difference with
different people. It's secondquestion since relation for
nations, I'm thinking it'salmost no chance to change this
situation for many years, talkabout first level. It's a
(46:43):
political level, and this isusually political not ask
someone from church, what do youthink about political level?
It's not multi invitation. Andof course, it's a church level.
And all of these four questions,it's really hard, because what I
(47:04):
am understand. I remember myconversation with some Russian
Christians, one conversation I'masked, because these people say,
Oh, I'm sorry, what happens withyour phone? And then say, but
you sorry about what your peopledo? And he said, Oh, no, no. I
didn't want to talk about thisbecause this is political
(47:26):
questions, and he willpersonally and for Russian
Christians and for Russianchurches, it's very important
say what this is seen or not,because most of Russian people
from churches, even generalsupport Putin extremely and
(47:47):
biblical theology offorgiveness. Connect with
previous two, justice withjustice, Bible, biblical
understanding of forgivenessconnect with biblical
understanding of justice,because if forgiveness without
justice, it's not biblical idea.
And because this, you've talkedabout forgiveness, you need to
(48:10):
talk about, remember andforgiveness for level of
forgiveness, justice,forgiveness, and this is, this
is not easy questions. It's alot a lot of questions.
Joshua Johnson (48:24):
Briefly, Valentin, this has been a
fantastic conversation. Thankyou for for this. This book,
serving God under siege. This isthe the English version. You
wrote it in Ukrainian. It wastranslated into English, which
I'm very thankful. It wastranslated English, so I can
read this, and a lot of peoplearound the world could also read
it. What hope do you have forthis book? Both the Ukrainian
(48:48):
version, so the people in yourin your homeland, and then the
English version, the peoplearound the world,
Unknown (48:55):
maybe, as the biggest my hope. Daniel, up expectation,
expectation people from Westernworld hear voice of Ukrainians.
And because, especiallyUkrainians like refugee and
(49:19):
because now not many Ukrainianswho refugee can't be heard.
And and I'm, I'm hope this willbe bridge for Understand,
understand us. And if youremember Israel, culture, gods
(49:40):
many times say you need helprefugee, because you was
refugee. And is Madrid time.
Paslani Petra,well, when we read the letter of
Peter, Peter one is a whitecircle.
(50:01):
He calls the church refugees.
Yeah, some something likerefugees. And because this
church need to understand thisgroup of people for make this in
order,in order to have so that people
can feel sympathy.
Joshua Johnson (50:23):
I pray that that happens, that we actually can
see the stories of Ukrainians,that we could hear directly from
you and your story, and thatcould actually lead us into a
place where we could see all theUkrainians. I really hope that
people go and get this servingGod under siege. Is a fantastic
book. It's actually a thrillingstory. And so it's not just
(50:47):
information, it's also a reallylike thrilling ride through your
story, and it's a harrowingtale. So thank you for writing
it so that we could actually seewhat is happening through your
perspective and yourunderstanding, so that we could
get that as well. Is thereanything that you'd like to tell
the audience? How can peopleconnect with what you're doing?
(51:10):
Is there any needs that you havethat we could connect people
with? How could they connectwith you?
Unknown (51:15):
Yes, I'm not prepared to resist. But yes, Tsai have a
foundation in United States,American nonprofit organization,
and name Tsai Foundation, andour biggest need to rebuild, or
maybe buy at least, was onebuilding to save our
(51:37):
organization, because tiedbefore work, have five
buildings, a really huge campus,a lot small businesses, and now
everything just destroyed. Inthe beginning was bombing, and
after this was flooded. Andyeah, if you want, you can find
us. It's TSI Foundation. Andyeah, can help us to rebuild our
(52:02):
organization.
Joshua Johnson (52:03):
Thank you for this conversation. I really
appreciate it, and I got a lotout of it, and I know a lot of
people listening well as well.
So thank you so much.
Unknown (52:13):
Thank you. Thank you.
You.
I'm preparing my President's speech for student
and August, 28 29 Hello.
Joshua Johnson (00:47):
Conversations about and the impact belongs to
the body of Christ, look likeJesus. I'm your host. Joshua
Johnson, before I never has away of revealing to what we hope
in and what we call home. WhenRussian forces invaded Ukraine,
Valentin Sunny, the president ofa theological seminary in
(01:07):
Kherson, had to make impossibledecisions in real time,
decisions about his family, hisstudents, his calling and his
country, his home, his church,the entire seminary he led were
eventually destroyed, yet in therubble and the loss and the
relentless pressure of war,Valentine discovered a deeper
faith, a reimagined vision and atheology shaped not by comforts
(01:31):
but by crisis. In thisconversation, he tells the story
behind his book, serving Godunder siege, a story first
titled in Ukrainian, the manwhose home was stolen. We talk
about what it means to shepherdpeople while experiencing the
same trauma they're livingthrough. How to make decisions
when staying and leaving bothfeel like wounds, how hope
(01:52):
functions when the visible worldgives you none and what it means
to form pastors for a churchliving under invasion. Valentine
offers not just an account ofsurviving war, but a testimony
of God's presence in shatteredplaces, a reminder that even in
the world's darkest corners,Faith can deepen, communities
can rise and love can endure.
This conversation is sobering.
(02:14):
It's honest, it's full ofsurprising beauty. It invites us
to see Ukraine not as headlines,but as people, people whose
stories deserve to be heard. Inthis conversation, Valentin
sometimes uses an interpreter sowork through the language, even
though sometimes it is difficultto understand, it is well worth
(02:35):
your patience to listen, tolisten deeply and to understand
what is happening in the Ukraineat the moment, this story is
well worth your patience andyour listen. So here is my
conversation with Valentin.
Sonny, well, Valentin, welcometo shifting culture. Thank you
so much for joining me. Reallyexcited to have you on. Thank
(02:56):
you. Thank you. You've beenthrough a very, very difficult
time. We're going to be talkingabout your book in English,
serving God under siege. Youfirst wrote it in Ukrainian, but
we're talking about the the warin Ukraine, as you were leading
a seminary in the midst of theRussian invasion and coming in
and that you had to figure outhow to relocate, to evacuate and
(03:18):
actually have theologicaleducation happen during the
invasion, during a war, which isa very hard thing at the
beginning of your Your prefaceof the English language version
that I have here. You talk abouthome because you're talking
about the difference betweenhome in Ukraine. Can you tell me
(03:39):
and give me a definition of whyhome is so important to the
message of this book, and whatis it in Ukrainian that gives us
a little bit more information ofwhat you're talking about here.
Unknown (03:56):
Yeah, think it's a really great name, a great great
question, because my book inyour Kenyan, Ukrainian language,
have named man whose home wasstolen. This is mostly narrative
about my experience, and I'mstart ask this question about
definition of home after publishhouse Edmonds suggest change
(04:20):
name, because I'm understand,for me, like cranials home, it's
something very, very, veryimportant. Of course, in this
book, I'm not talking abouthome, but after this
conversation, I'm stoppedthinking what's home means for
me and what I'm understand ifcompare Ukrainian culture and
(04:40):
Americans in United States, mostpeople, it's immigrants and live
in this culture, in differentidea of home and roots, and for
me, personally, home, it's notquestioned about house, about
buildings, because my buildingslike roof and walls, it's exist.
(05:03):
I'm talk. I'm lose my home, andI mean about people and
community. Because for me, homemaybe means three meanings, it's
my family, but mostly not aboutonly my family, with my wife,
but in bigger definition, withmy parents, with my uncle and my
(05:26):
nephew. Because in our culture,people, time to time, you. Have
this events, some holidays andbigger family, have celebration
time to time. Second what Iunderstand it's George, because
in Western culture, people thinkabout George for place
(05:51):
that gives some kind of serviceto a person.
But in my in my understandingI'm I'm stay and I am with one
church for all of my life, Iunderstand where is different
ladies stay. I understand thechurch. It's around 300 people,
(06:12):
and I'm one of the pastor inthis church, but I understand
this is like home. Because afterI'm relocated with seminary,
with youth from our church, I'munderstand in different church,
you change your mentality aboutrelation with God and relation
with people, because if you stayin one church, like 25 years or
(06:36):
30 years, you build relation,you go through conflict, you
understand your sanctificationin different idea and third
level, it's my home city,because I'm born in same city. I
was at university in same city,married in same city, ordained
for pastors ministry. Have firstjob. My children is born, and if
(07:01):
I go in some street, I knowpeople from my school, from my
job, from job, and this iscommunication. This is my home,
and home like family, likechurch and city, and lose
everything, because most peoplefrom my church live, immigrate
(07:21):
or relocate, and, of course, myfather stay in Kherson with
church. But this is differentchurch because it's now it's
mostly refugee or people whovisit church after war start.
And if talk about my city beforewar, it's good side of city,
350,000 and now it's less than50,000 it's not enough people
(07:48):
for
Joshua Johnson (07:50):
this city exist.
Take me into a place where youhad home, you had your your job,
your family, you had TCI, youryour institution that you were
leading, or the invasionshappened. You were getting ready
because you heard rumors ofinvasion that it could come
soon. You had an evacuation planready to go, take us into that
(08:13):
place where you were starting tomake plans even before the
invasion happened. Why were youtalking about evacuation?
Unknown (08:25):
Usually, in my work, every November I'm with the
United States, to report aboutour ministry, about our
education ministry and missionswork in outside of Ukraine and
in 2,021st I'm visit UnitedStates in November, with last
November and in this month, adifference organization start
(08:49):
talk about possible invasion.
And people suggest me evacuationor moving a couple time before
war. And I'm thinking, say it'snot possible for my family only,
and I need be with ministry. I'mstarting to communicate with my
friend who have experience inthe United States Army, he
(09:11):
immediately, and he consulted usabout make this evacuation plan.
Of course, it's not workexcellent, because Russian start
war very, very quickly. And iftalk about our area, our city,
it's nearby. Crimea and Russianafter maybe five, six hour, will
(09:37):
be nearby our city, ourevocation plan not work,
excellent, but because I havethis evacuation plan, TCI can
special bus to create people andwork for this strategy. And this
is our organization. I remember,after maybe two years, one
(10:01):
gentleman talk with me, maybe itwas one more than two years, and
he say, in this similarsituation, usually, organization
no change to exist because ECIlose more than 40% of our
income. Because 40% of ourincome connect with our
location, small businesses forsupport our ministry at ECI lose
(10:26):
a lot. Professor who. Immigrateor who stay in occupation after
nine months, TCI lose fivebillions because our campus was,
have 15 acres and five billions.
Everything was lose library.
It's 30,000 books. And afterthis, usually organization no
(10:48):
change to exist, because Godsend the special workers who
help us in this evacuation plan,our organization can go through
this stress, through thiscritical situation, difficulty,
difficult situation, yeah, andexist.
Joshua Johnson (11:12):
So you have a plan in place, and as soon as
the invasion starts and the warstarts, you say this, this plan
may not work. What is it like?
The beginning of of something tomake quick decisions as a
leader, to try and evacuate. Howdo you shift and adapt your
(11:32):
plans to what was happening onthe ground?
Unknown (11:38):
These good questions, because after worst time,
understand something aboutleadership and our leader
logical classes, I'm say maybe90% of our plan. It's worked.
The biggest part it's not workbefore evacuation, TCI,
(12:00):
communicate with bus company andmake agreements with bus company
about People First from thiscompany, take our people from
evacuate, because in Ukrainian,not everyone family have car.
It's different economic anddifferent logistic. And because
(12:21):
this, our biggest challenge ishave enough busses to evacuate
people approximately in 7am inday after Russians start bombing
because the Russians startbombing us in 5am approximately
in 5am and in 7am my co worker,who communicate with logistic
(12:44):
company, he called me and say,and this driver say, no ever
hate You because it's dangerous.
And TCI take some money from ourstabilization fund and buy first
bus to evacuate people in week,maybe TCI buy two more busses,
and later, one more and maybe incouple more months, and evacuate
(13:09):
people from frontline and decidethis is one of the first
Ukrainian organization. It'smaybe not the first, but one of
the first who start evacuationpeople from frontline. If you
have a vacation plan, it's helpyou, maybe for 90% 80% it's
better if you didn't havebecause if you didn't have
(13:32):
evacuation plan, you will be instress. But every hour, worker
understand what people need do,and our team maybe seven time
talk with our worker in Januaryand February about evacuation,
because for people, it's it'shard to make this decision.
Joshua Johnson (13:53):
In that decision, I know that someone,
some people in your family, alsodecided to stay, and then you
decided to evacuate. How do youmake a decision in moments like
that, whether to stay or whetherto evacuate? And why are those
both can be both good decisionsand they could both be bad
(14:16):
decisions. What does it looklike to figure that out?
Unknown (14:20):
It's really hard questions for me, and by the
way, now I'm working with to myfriends about theological
question in time of war. And onetheological questions. It's
dilemma between leave or stay.
This is huge dilemma, andTertullian, maybe first, who
(14:40):
start thinking about this. Thisis good questions, because my
decision it's go with ourschool, with our seminary, and
my father, who lead pastor insame church, I'm ordained, he
made decision to stay. And thisdecision not only in ministers,
but in family, in one family,father and my mom made decision
(15:05):
to stay, and myself and to mybrother and one sister my
decision to leave, and this isbroken heart, of course,
leadership decision and our deeptheology, it's work immediately
and stress, because what you doin this situation, it's your
(15:25):
practical theology, it's yourpractical leadership. So. I'm
thinking, my father absolutelyright because he stay with
church, and I'm thinking, I'mright because I'm the student.
Now, after three years, Iunderstand at church and
seminary, he have differentvisions and have different
(15:47):
missions. And a mission forchurch. It's help people in
location. And because this, myfather make really hard decision
and stay and serves people. Andmy decision prepare new
generation of leaders and savedstudent and second one, because
(16:08):
in our area, TSA, have thebiggest number of international
connection, and I'm beforeevacuation with leaders of our
church and ask advice. And I'llsay what you suggest. And most
of local pastors say you needleave to build this partnership
(16:30):
relation to support ourchurches. If work start and this
second, because two of thesedecision connect with your
missions, your personalmissions, and missions of your
part of church,
Joshua Johnson (16:51):
you work, I think that's a that's a helpful
distinction for people. It's toknow what is your mission,
what's the vision. It helps thento make a good decision. I
worked in the Middle East for along time, and I worked with war
refugees, and so I was sittingin living rooms with people who
lost everything. Lost theirhome. How do you, as you
(17:15):
evacuate people and move them toa new location? How do you
shepherd people through the lossof home, through the loss of
what they have
Unknown (17:27):
good questions yesterday, mortgage, Ruby,
difficultfor me in the beginning to to
shepherd others, because I wasgoing through the Same kind of
thing.
No subliminium, fundamental thepastors
(17:53):
and later, your foundation foryour shepherding is your
experience.
Yes, when we remember the storyof two disciples after Jesus was
(18:58):
crucified, when they werewalking along the road. Why were
they so sincere with oneanother? Because they had a very
similar experience. They wereinvolved in an in the same kind
(19:18):
of job, insane company, unique,and they both had the same
situation that happened to theirboss.
Animal, missed this nice.
They could be very open and notbe shy to share their
(19:38):
experience, and thenwhen a stranger comes up, they
started defendingthemselves, and
they said, Don't you know whathappened? They did they were
afraid of to hear somecriticism,
(20:01):
but Michelle ties to opensource. But again, is
fundamental pastors fromso a similar experience can be a
good foundation for forshepherding
others, not at any moment. Yeah,but this is not the only thing
as long like not the only thing.
(20:21):
The most important thing isJesus, Jesus, who lives in our
heart and the Holy Scripture,
Joshua Johnson (20:29):
what you said is, it was difficult for you at
the very beginning because youwere going through the same
thing. That's a that's a hardplace to be in. How do you bring
in support during that time foryou, as you're leading and
you're trying to guide people ina place where you're not in your
(20:50):
location, everything isdifferent. Was there any support
for you? And what did that looklike?
Unknown (20:57):
What watching Global purchase now leadership pretty
much to a new, sick, double,triple.
Well again, to be honest,leaders need to understand that
not always they will be able toreceive this support from others
at the prison. Why? Leader ofpolitics and
(21:21):
its leaders call from God. Itsleaders call to receive this
support from God. Even thoughyou don't receive any support
from people, we do want toreceive this support from
people. Doesn't always work,not alone and just literally,
and you really society.
(21:57):
I was really upset when I heardother people saying that, you
know, like when we help, helpevacuate others, someone would
say he is a leader. He Hedoesn't need to this support
you, because he leaders, but,but through him, you can help
(22:18):
different people from and in thebeginning, it's a wounded me,
but later, God changed somethingin in my emotion, and I
understand this is role ofleader, of course, in this book
I am say About this in day ofmarriage of my daughter got
(22:41):
support me through one churchfrom United States. But this not
happens often in leadership.
It's very important teach Georgeabout support leaders. It's very
important teach George tosupport pastors. But sometimes
it's not happens.
Joshua Johnson (22:58):
I'm sorry that's a hard position to be in, yeah,
but it is, it is hard, it isdifficult. And so what did
keeping education going throughdislocation look like? How did
you continue the work whileyou're dealing with war and
(23:20):
displacement
Unknown (23:21):
in the beginning, from February to maybe June, July,
tsci mostly working humanitarianquestions, mostly in
humanitarian help in theMedicine question, evacuation
questions, send people throughfrontline to send some stuff to
(23:42):
Kherson, work through riverNipper or volunteer. It's really
hard, but in June or in July,it's meeting in Lviv city. And
in this meeting, it's seventhseminary. It's all of the
seminary I connect with Baptistunion Ukrainian Baptist union
(24:02):
churches and seminary in thestand in time of war, especially
the first year, approximately500 pastors leave the country.
Some pastors was kidnapped. Ofcourse, it's not so many, but
couple pastors. Some pastor wasdrafted to army, and our
(24:23):
churches in first year loseapproximately 500 pastors. It's
huge number. It's huge number,because this our seven
seminaries start thinking aboutquick prepare pastors in new
reality because church mentalityor church ministry before war
(24:45):
and church ministry after warstart its defense missions of
God in earth. And because this,our seminaries start make really
short one year or two yearscourse for pastors to prepare
pastors in this new reality. Andthis, I start communicate with
(25:09):
local churches in ivanovan Kiss,find one, and it's not really
small, but not like this. I haveif three floor building in
ivanovan Kiss, outside of city,and ran this building and start
education and God, teach me alot about this. Because this
(25:34):
year, for me, if talked about2022 it's really hard year
because this meeting was sevenseminary. It will be in July,
approximately, and in the end ofAugust, I'm preparing my
president speech for student.
And August, 28 29 one pastorfrom his room called me and say,
(25:56):
your campus destroyed Russiandestroyed your campus. This
happens three day before I needsay my president speech in front
of a new student, and I'mchanged my President's speech, I
am take a place. And destroyplate. And talk mostly about how
(26:18):
Jewish people remind aboutdestroyed temple, and how be
leaders in time of brokennessand my my speech in 2022 in
September. And talk about how beleader, how be hands of God in
(26:38):
time of brokenness. And in thisyear, God make a lot visual
fruit of our ministry, becausesometimes you work to cut and
you didn't see fruit of yourministry. And this year, God
prepare a lot and help us a lot.
(26:59):
And in the end of year, I amglue plate, pieces of the plate,
and talk mostly about Japanesetradition, kenzuki. And I'm
saying, God, glue everything.
God provide everything. God helpyou go to through this wound
situation and in Apple day,Russian destroy kahovka dam and
(27:23):
our Oblast have been Yes,flattered after this. It's
interesting, because sometimeyou think, Oh, God, everything.
Put anything together. Yeah, puteverything together. And then
couple day, kakhovka Dumpflooded my city,
Joshua Johnson (27:44):
when everything was destroyed and flooded the
city. And there you're feelinglike, hey, there might be some
repair. Here we're gluing thingsback together, and things are
destroyed again. How does that?
How do you get through that? Howdo you help others get through
things like that? Where it isrelentless, it's it happens, we
(28:06):
feel like there's something goodcoming, but then it's another
setback. Yeah, what does thatlook like?
Unknown (28:16):
It's hard. It's hard.
It's not easy. Maybe differentidea happen in these questions.
First, maybe I'm thinking abouttheology of hope because I'm
thinking modern church not teachenough about theology of hope.
And sometime our hope connectwith visual stuff, and you think
(28:38):
about Christians in firstcentury and second century and
diachylian neuron Christianshave this theology of hope. And
think about heaven and thinkabout strong hope, God, because
sometimes you looks what brachdeal it, enemy, enemy do. But if
(29:02):
you understand how your godstrong, this has helped you go
through this situation, throughthis terrible stuff. First, my
answer is geology of hope. Andsecond, in our life, of course,
people have a lot of wound I'mthinking the biggest problem, if
(29:23):
you're built, your lifestyleonly think about your wound, but
(30:32):
you think about your wound, andyou need think about Holy Spirit
gift. Very important tounderstand what your missions
and your missions, what yourunique, your unique in your womb
and you unique in your holyspirit gift. And if you
understand this, this has helpedyou for istlatza to be healed,
(30:56):
to be healed. And this is how tobe effective in ministry and
extend your missions, why youlive in this world, not why you
have church, how you can helppeople, your experience of womb
and how you help people withyour gift.
Joshua Johnson (31:19):
What is the difference, then, of serving? So
if you're you are educatingpastors for war and brokenness
instead of a time of peace. Whatare some of the things that you
need to prepare pastors to leadin the midst of war and
(31:40):
brokenness rather than in themidst of peace.
Unknown (31:43):
Good questions maybe a first time tell about my
experience of my study, becauseI remember one of my my first
study in bachelor's level, and Iremember my class about Old
Testament. And my professor, inintroduction about Old
Testament, He say Old Testament,writing in time of war and
(32:08):
occupation. And he say, Me thisin 1998 and from 1998 to. Before
full invasion, this means, forme, nothing. This is only, only
information you hear some day,many, many years ago. You hear
(32:32):
Bible writing time ofoccupations, after war, start
some verses from Bible starttalk with me in different ways,
because you start seeing thischapter or this verses, and you
start to understand normally ina level of Muslim mind, not only
(32:57):
in level of mind, but in levelof heart. And this may be held,
of course, if talk about asituation or prepare pastor or
youth leaders, not everyone havesame experience. Some people
from area where is not war, andyou need to understand modern
(33:19):
war, it's very different, likeif talking about Israel or
difference area, maybe 50kilometers or 100 kilometers, 70
miles, it's drones and missiles,and in 70 miles, people go to
coffee shop and different world.
People live like like in Europeand in 70 miles, people lose
(33:43):
everything because thissometimes people who live 70
miles or 100 mile after twoyears, people tired about work
and start yet, of course, ifsome relatives, what drafted to
army, this family, of course,will be prayed every day. And
(34:04):
because this need preparechurches in different
understanding of missions,missions for God, not missions
for international, missionswork. How need short people some
of our classes, it's classes inthis different reality. Of
course, in this situation,people in seminary in Christian
(34:29):
school start talking aboutdifferent questions, like
hospitality ministry withwounded people, trauma, healing
difference this chaplaincyministry, because a lot
soldiers, a lot pastors now,sort like chaplains in army,
(34:50):
your
Joshua Johnson (34:53):
whole seminary, you lost your Buildings, you
lost your library, had 30,000books you have right now. So
anybody watching video, you havea book that was burned. Losing
30,000 books is a lot of books.
Unknown (35:10):
Yes, it's interesting because Russian soldiers most of
books, it's burn, and some bookstake in, bring,
they took the books to thedumpster,
and want the pastor from Khersonchurches go to these dumpers,
dumpster, dumpster, and take 18or 20 books and say, of course,
(35:35):
it's not possible to use thesebooks, because this book
everything destroyed, but hebring less than 20 books. And
this is simple, what Russian dowith our library. And it's
interesting because God's makethis special kenzuki For
Christians, because in November,2023 Lincoln Christians
(36:00):
University from Illinois,connect with us and say this
university won't donate for usaround 30,000 books. Yes, it's a
little bit less than TCI have,but this university, with
partnership in theological booksnetwork and with scholar
(36:22):
leaders, donate for us thesebooks. And in this summer, in
August, three librarian from twofrom United States and one from
Austria, visit us to catalog isaid these books and Tsai open
new library in same day afterthree years, in August 29 Open
(36:48):
Library for glory of God,because I destroyed our library
in August 29 in 2022 and God'shelp us open this library in
same day in three years.
Joshua Johnson (37:03):
That's beautiful. Tell me what is
happening in Ukraine now, what'sthe feeling in the country? What
do we need to know about what'sgoing on and how we can stand
and pray and be with. People ofUkraine,
Unknown (37:19):
yeah, you need to understand, Ukraine is big
country. This is the one of thebiggest country in Europe,
because this is differentsituation in our country. If
talk about frontline likeKherson, Zaporizhzhia, kharkav,
Dnipropetrovsk and Donetsk area,it's war every day. People not
(37:41):
talk a lot about my homeland,Kherson, but this City bombing
every day. In some day, it'sapproximately 500 600 missiles
for every day. It's crazy. Ofcourse, it talk about city who
(38:02):
far from frontline, it's moresafety, but in our country, not
enough people to draft to army,because population, Ukrainian
population, is many times lessthan Russians. And because this,
it's very important have enoughpeople in economical sector and
(38:23):
in military sector. And now it'snot enough people who can serve
and who can work some restaurantnot work, because not enough
people to make business. And iftalk about feeling most people
didn't have enough hope anddidn't have enough yeah, maybe
(38:44):
hope in future, because mostpeople connect hope with visual
stuff, and if talk aboutpolitical stuff, yeah, people,
especially who nearby frontline.
But of course, people want savedcountry and the she shot protect
protect country. Opinions won'tprotect country and protect
(39:05):
Europe, because Russian, time totime, attacked Poland Baltic
country and yeah, how
Joshua Johnson (39:16):
has this transformed you and your your
relationship with God. How doyou view view God now
differently than before the war.
Unknown (39:28):
I'm not lose my face.
My face more deep. Maybe twostory first or first, people
really won't see miracle verysoon in your life, and people
really want, if someone pray,God immediately answer, and I'm
understand your relation andyour trust. God not negotiable.
(39:53):
Not be, mustn't be. Mustn't be.
Connect with miracle answer.
Sometime, God, talk with youthrough Holy Spirit, but you
didn't see miracle. Because ifthink about Abraham, Abraham
have answered in time he 76 and99 and no miracle. It's only
(40:19):
communication here, becausethis, you build relation with
God sometime you didn't haveanswer in medical way. Of
course, I'm warned, but now I'mnot expect this. This is maybe
first one. And if talk about howmy hope and how my understanding
(40:45):
this life transform now, if youread Revelation, you see couple
pictures about Jesus, and thishas helped me in this stressful
situation, because in first,second and third chapter, you
(41:06):
see Jesus who pelosocinik, highpriest, high priest, and he
communicate With churches. Andthese churches have different
experience. Have differentproblem. Some churches have
problem with heresy, someproblem. Some churches have
problem with prosecution fromsociety, some problem have some
(41:30):
churches have problem with womenor leadership or money. Some
churches really good, have goodsituation, and Jesus say, I am
highest priest, and I am lead bychurches. If think about our
situation, about churches inUkraine and maybe in United
(41:52):
States, not everything good inour church. Our churches have
problem, but if you understand,Jesus now our high priest, and
he help us, and He lead ourchurches, and he protect our
churches, this helped me notexpect something not realistic
(42:15):
from church. Of course, churchneed focus to sanctification.
Church need be church. Churchmust be sold. But I understand
Jesus protect and Jesus lovechurch later in the Revelation,
you see Jesus like maybe not seein the beginning, John, hear
(42:39):
lying voice, and he looks, andhe see lamb, and this lamb was
wound, and he understand this isJesus, who creator, and who
watches the world. And in ourworld, not everything good in
our world, it's a lot problem,ecological problem, covid
(43:03):
problem, illness problem, a lotproblem, sometimes with water.
But Jesus, watch what happenswith this world. And the end of
story, Johnson, this white kingin white horse and only his robe
in blood. This is blood ofJesus, and he say he king. And
(43:27):
if talk about political area,not everything good in our
political maybe only in theUnited States, everything good
was political? A lot of problemwith political situation,
political, corrupt, political,not a in God's roles. But if you
understand Jesus, understandwhat kingdoms and he have his
(43:50):
voice in this question. And thisis little bit help me, because
sometime life not not easy. Ofcourse, I know Americans
mentality Life is good, butreality, life not is good, not
always, not always good, notall. Life, sometimes it's hard.
Joshua Johnson (44:21):
Yes, it is. I don't know if we could answer
this quickly, because it's a bigquestion, but did your your
thoughts on the peace of theKingdom of God and peace
building and peacemaking? Hasthat shifted or changed. Have
you learned anything of what itlooks like to be a peace builder
(44:45):
and bring the peace of thekingdom of God into places?
Unknown (44:50):
It's hard question for Ukrainians. And of course, if I
start talking about peacebuilding, some people
immediately start thinkingpolitical level. For some
Ukrainians, it's really hardquestions. Maybe you remember
some journalist asked ourpresident, and he asked about
(45:15):
forget Russians and ourpresident say, Forgive, forgive.
And you say, budim de Pristina,we will never forget. We will
never forgive. And this istheological understanding for
some Ukrainians, because someUkrainians believe if you
forgive Russian, it's mean,Jessica,
(45:39):
if you have forgiven Russiansfor what they have done, you
forgot Nashua that 1000s ofUkrainians were killed in this
war,and because this is womb, but
I'm thinking our forgiveness andneed connect with our relation
with Jesus. And this is not, noteasy questions. And of course,
(46:02):
many Ukrainians now think ifsome some Christians start
talking about forgiveness, manyUkrainians say it's political
questions. But if talk aboutthese questions, I'm
understanding at least fourlevel four built relations
because it's personal relations.
(46:23):
It's one level, and this will bedifference in difference with
different people. It's secondquestion since relation for
nations, I'm thinking it'salmost no chance to change this
situation for many years, talkabout first level. It's a
(46:43):
political level, and this isusually political not ask
someone from church, what do youthink about political level?
It's not multi invitation. Andof course, it's a church level.
And all of these four questions,it's really hard, because what I
(47:04):
am understand. I remember myconversation with some Russian
Christians, one conversation I'masked, because these people say,
Oh, I'm sorry, what happens withyour phone? And then say, but
you sorry about what your peopledo? And he said, Oh, no, no. I
didn't want to talk about thisbecause this is political
(47:26):
questions, and he willpersonally and for Russian
Christians and for Russianchurches, it's very important
say what this is seen or not,because most of Russian people
from churches, even generalsupport Putin extremely and
(47:47):
biblical theology offorgiveness. Connect with
previous two, justice withjustice, Bible, biblical
understanding of forgivenessconnect with biblical
understanding of justice,because if forgiveness without
justice, it's not biblical idea.
And because this, you've talkedabout forgiveness, you need to
(48:10):
talk about, remember andforgiveness for level of
forgiveness, justice,forgiveness, and this is, this
is not easy questions. It's alot a lot of questions.
Joshua Johnson (48:24):
Briefly, Valentin, this has been a
fantastic conversation. Thankyou for for this. This book,
serving God under siege. This isthe the English version. You
wrote it in Ukrainian. It wastranslated into English, which
I'm very thankful. It wastranslated English, so I can
read this, and a lot of peoplearound the world could also read
it. What hope do you have forthis book? Both the Ukrainian
(48:48):
version, so the people in yourin your homeland, and then the
English version, the peoplearound the world,
Unknown (48:55):
maybe, as the biggest my hope. Daniel, up expectation,
expectation people from Westernworld hear voice of Ukrainians.
And because, especiallyUkrainians like refugee and
(49:19):
because now not many Ukrainianswho refugee can't be heard.
And and I'm, I'm hope this willbe bridge for Understand,
understand us. And if youremember Israel, culture, gods
(49:40):
many times say you need helprefugee, because you was
refugee. And is Madrid time.
Paslani Petra,well, when we read the letter of
Peter, Peter one is a whitecircle.
(50:01):
He calls the church refugees.
Yeah, some something likerefugees. And because this
church need to understand thisgroup of people for make this in
order,in order to have so that people
can feel sympathy.
Joshua Johnson (50:23):
I pray that that happens, that we actually can
see the stories of Ukrainians,that we could hear directly from
you and your story, and thatcould actually lead us into a
place where we could see all theUkrainians. I really hope that
people go and get this servingGod under siege. Is a fantastic
book. It's actually a thrillingstory. And so it's not just
(50:47):
information, it's also a reallylike thrilling ride through your
story, and it's a harrowingtale. So thank you for writing
it so that we could actually seewhat is happening through your
perspective and yourunderstanding, so that we could
get that as well. Is thereanything that you'd like to tell
the audience? How can peopleconnect with what you're doing?
(51:10):
Is there any needs that you havethat we could connect people
with? How could they connectwith you?
Unknown (51:15):
Yes, I'm not prepared to resist. But yes, Tsai have a
foundation in United States,American nonprofit organization,
and name Tsai Foundation, andour biggest need to rebuild, or
maybe buy at least, was onebuilding to save our
(51:37):
organization, because tiedbefore work, have five
buildings, a really huge campus,a lot small businesses, and now
everything just destroyed. Inthe beginning was bombing, and
after this was flooded. Andyeah, if you want, you can find
us. It's TSI Foundation. Andyeah, can help us to rebuild our
(52:02):
organization.
Joshua Johnson (52:03):
Thank you for this conversation. I really
appreciate it, and I got a lotout of it, and I know a lot of
people listening well as well.
So thank you so much.
Unknown (52:13):
Thank you. Thank you.
You.
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