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September 1, 2025 40 mins

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Kirsten Graham, co-owner of Six Figure Business Coaching, shares powerful insights on outsourcing for small business owners and the mindset shifts needed to build a successful team. Her expertise from 17+ years of helping entrepreneurs build exceptional teams shines through as she addresses common misconceptions and provides practical strategies for delegation.

• Start by outsourcing tasks you don't enjoy doing, like bookkeeping
• Consider outsourcing time-consuming tasks even if you enjoy them
• Document processes if you do something more than three times with more than three steps
• Hiring is about building collaboration, not just delegating tasks
• Outsourcing can reduce the loneliness and isolation of entrepreneurship
• Understand the difference between building a business versus creating a job for yourself
• Invest in outsourcing before you're drowning in work
• You can start small with just 3-5 hours of help per month
• Women often struggle with feeling worthy of having support in their business
• Most virtual assistants cost $3-6/hour, making it affordable to delegate lower-value tasks
• When you outsource effectively, you free yourself to focus on revenue-generating activities
• Having systems and processes in place is crucial for successful delegation
• We find money for what we truly value in business and life

For a free guide called "Double Your Income with a Marketing Virtual Assistant," visit outsourcingforbosses.com. To learn more about Kirsten's coaching services, visit sixfigurebusinesscoaching.com.


https://outsourcingforbosses.com/
https://www.instagram.com/sfbizcoaching/

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Keep Shining- Shanna Star

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Shanna (00:08):
Welcome back to another episode of the Shine Podcast.
I'm your host, shana Starr.
Today I have a wonderful guestwith me and I had such a lovely
conversation.
She might not know this, but bythe end I was having some tears
just by having so much joy andgratefulness for the wonderful
women that I get to haveconversations with.
Kirsten Graham is the co-ownerof Six Figure Business Coaching.

(00:31):
Today we get to chat about allthings outsourcing, but also
finding value in yourself,finding value in conversations
and collaboration, and also whatit looks to have that
self-worth enough in yourbusiness to start hiring other
people and when it is time andhow that might look for you.

(00:52):
I can't wait for you to listento this conversation, so let's
get right to it.
Welcome, kirsten, to the show.
I'm so excited to have thisconversation with you and
already jumping on the call.
We've been all smiles andexcited, so welcome.

Kirsten (01:06):
Thank you so much for having me.
I've got a feeling we couldtalk for hours.
I know we won't, but we could.

Shanna (01:11):
Yes, we'll just have to do it again already without
even knowing where it's going togo.
Love that.
Now you and a partner own theSix Figure Business Coaching and
have for quite a while and Iknow online it says you're a
dynamic marketing and outsourcecoaches who have empowered
hundreds of clients to buildexceptional teams and fully
embrace those roles and CEOs.

(01:31):
So I'm so excited to kind ofchat about today outsourcing.
And I know there's anotherlittle part that I love that
said you lead people and managetasks.
So let's jump right intooutsourcing today and let's also
start with when we think ofoutsourcing as businesses.
I know immediately for myselfback in the day when I started,

(01:55):
I thought, oh, I have to havesomebody working within the
business.
But what I found for myself isthat what can be helpful when
you're just starting to hiresomebody, it's to outsource
tasks that maybe is taking awaymoney and that could look like
cleaning and personal tasks anderrands.
And I'd love to hear youropinion on when deciding to
first outsource and whatdeciding to first outsource.

Kirsten (02:17):
Sure, I think it really depends on the person.
So Jeannie and I startedoutsourcing around 17 years ago,
so really long time ago andthat was for her digital agency.
So she was really doing printwork, you know, flyers and rack
cards.
And then Facebook kind of cameon the scene right and the first
thing they rolled out was fanpages back in the day, and so

(02:40):
she was helping her clientsreally come onto the space,
building their websites andhelping them, you know, create
content for LinkedIn and forFacebook.
And so really early on werealized that there was such a
need for that.
She could grow her businessquickly if she could figure out
how to hire, and so we startedoutsourcing overseas.
But actually the first thingshe outsourced, before we even

(03:04):
started bringing on her teammembers, was her bookkeeping,
because that really stressed herout as something she didn't
enjoy doing.
So when it comes to outsourcing,I really think it's it has to
do with a couple of things.
First of all, outsource thethings that you really do not
enjoy doing.
That's that's usually fairlyeasy.
Right, you hate doing yourbookkeeping.
That's easy to outsource.

(03:24):
But sometimes we have tooutsource things that we enjoy
doing because they're timeconsuming and it's not the best
use of our time.
Those are two different ways tothink about things.
As far as outsourcing, theother thing I think that we look
at very differently than a lotof people is we think about
outsourcing as a way to buildyour team.
So it's not about just throwingtasks at someone else to do.

(03:47):
It's about bringing on a teammember to get things done and to
be a part of the business andpart of growing the business.

Shanna (03:55):
And yeah, anybody, I'll stop there, I can go on and on
and on, but I want to have aconversation, Please do you know
all the things?
I love that and I know you'vetalked with this with some other
people as well that I waslistening to earlier.
And as a business owner, it's,it's our baby, especially at
first, and it's so hard to letgo at first until we start to uh

(04:18):
, and it's often it's hard toimagine even someone being quote
better than us at certain tasksbecause it's ours, we honed it
in, we know how to do it right,but in reality we're only needed
and we're only really good at ahandful of things.
And bringing on another personwhose strength are in the tasks
that we're not necessarilyneeded in will not only leave

(04:39):
you time, like you said, butit'll leave you time to work on
your strength, to grow and getmore money and be done better.
So I would love kind of yourthought on that as well.

Kirsten (04:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
Again, it's easy to outsourcethings we hate doing right, or
even things we're not great at,like things that we just really
struggle with.
Those are easier to outsource.
But, like you said, certainthings we feel like we've dialed
it in, we've got it nailed downand it is our baby.
I think the first thing I wouldsay is, as a business owner, did
you start a business to createa job for yourself or did you

(05:14):
start a business to build abusiness?
And those are two verydifferent things and there's
nothing wrong with either ofthem.
But if you want to build abusiness that can be larger than
just you and can take youplaces that you probably just
can't go on your own justbecause there's not enough hours
in the day, then you reallyhave to think about how do I
build a team?
How do I find people to supportme in my business?
How do I find people who can dothings and maybe they don't do

(05:37):
them exactly the way you do, butmaybe that's good enough.
Or again, sometimes you'resurprised.
People come back and they endup being more skilled Once they
understand your vision or whatyou're looking for.
They can actually blow you awaybecause they can do things
faster and better than you cando, but it really is opening up

(05:59):
to the possibilities ofcollaboration, and I think
that's one of the things I loveabout women is they do love to
collaborate.
So, like for our clients, one ofthe things that surprised me
most when we started helping ourclients outsource was how many
of them said things like Ididn't realize how lonely and
isolated I was in my business.
Or the best part of my week iswhen I'm meeting with my
bookkeeper or I'm meeting withmy marketing virtual assistant.
I love collaborating.

(06:20):
I love having someone to talkabout these things with, whether
it's talking about your numbersand what costs could I cut, or
celebrating that you had a bigmonth in a certain area of your
business.
That's awesome to be able totalk to someone about that in
your business or with themarketing and being able to
bounce creative ideas off ofeach other and come up with

(06:40):
something better than either ofyou could come up with on your
own.
I feel like for a lot of people, it's think about building your
team as building acollaboration, building people
up in your team who can help yougo to the next level in your
business and also have a lotmore fun, have more fun working
with other people and not beinglike that soul, you know, that
lonely soldier, that lone wolfkind of thing.

Shanna (07:03):
I totally resonate with that, especially because, even
as a photographer, that's only10% of my job.
90% I'm behind the computer,I'm alone and very often,
honestly, I'm an extrovertedintrovert.
So I enjoy it, I get energyfrom it.
But I will say I talk to mydogs a lot if I'm not chatting
with other people, so Idefinitely get that lonely part
until we get to start to haveconversations, to even grow our

(07:26):
mindset a little bit and maybeexpand the creativity part.
So I love that, thecollaboration that you talked
about.
What are maybe some strategiesthen that you would suggest to
figure out?
Maybe what to outsource andwhen to start outsourcing?

Kirsten (07:44):
Okay, so my background is actually real estate and
mortgage, so I'm kind of thenumbers person.
So one of the things I believe,I believe in energy,
everything's energy, and we canmanifest what we want and we get
what we focus on.
So for a lot of small businessowners, they ignore their, their
bookkeeping.
They don't enjoy doing it, theyfind it overwhelming.
Maybe they don't want to know,maybe they don't want to know

(08:04):
they're spending more thanthey're making.
So I'm really I really believethat mastering your finances is
about really getting in touchwith what you're bringing in and
what's going out, and I feellike that's very empowering,
especially for women.
So that's one of the things Ialways encourage people to do.
You don't have to be abookkeeper, you just need to
have someone to keep your booksfor you and you need to feel
safe and secure in thatrelationship with your

(08:26):
bookkeeper so that you can havegreat conversations around your
numbers.
You know understanding what,what you're doing in your
business, where you're spendingyour money and how it could
change and move the needle inthe direction that you want to
go in.
And you know, for example,bookkeeping software is as cheap
as $20 a month and having abookkeeping virtual assistant at

(08:47):
$6 an hour.
Most people only need four orfive hours a month.
Now your bookkeeping is beingdone for less than 80 bucks a
month, so investing that moneyin that time and getting your
finances in order, I think, is areally solid place for a lot of
business owners to start.
And if you already have thatdialed in, then the next
question would be what are youstruggling with?

(09:09):
What are you looking?
You know, what could you reallychange in your business?
Jeannie's very tech savvy andI'm not, so another way we
support our clients is throughsoftware virtual assistants.
So working with clients who aremore like me and who don't want
to build their own landingpages you know they don't want
to build their website, theydon't want to update their
website, they want someone whocan, you know, set those things

(09:29):
up and handle all theirautomations.
What again, what are yourweaknesses and how could you
fill that gap?
That would be the first thing Iwould say to people is figure
out one, if you're not takingcare of your finances, make that
a priority, because it'llreally help you grow your
business.
And then two, just thinkingabout what you're struggling
with the most, yes, you knowit's interesting, that's the
first thing I hired as well.

Shanna (09:51):
But I sometimes forget that that's an outsource Cause.
I'm like, yeah, I have my CPAin the bookkeeping, but because
I'm not using them all the time,it's not like a weekly hire,
it's it's forgotten that.
I'm like, oh yeah, I do do that.
That was my first hire and Ihighly suggest that as well,
because even at the end of theyear, even if you don't use full
year bookkeeping, it's so mucheasier to know okay, it's done

(10:13):
correctly, even if it's not alot of money coming in.
So that would be that.
And the financial advisor I waslike where's my money going?
How can I do better at it?

Kirsten (10:22):
So and that's that's awesome, because you put your
money first as a priority inyour business, and not because
you're selfish and not becauseyou're materialistic, but
because you're building abusiness, not a hobby.
You know you started a businessto be able to support your
family and to do the things thatyou want to do.
It's your career and so takingit seriously and understanding

(10:43):
that you do have to have thosenumbers in line for tax time.
But it's also amazing to beable to have a relationship with
the bookkeeper that's on yourteam to go through your finances
regularly, Because that can bevery empowering too, to be able
to understand your profit lossand your cash flow sheet.
Understanding all of thosethings can really help you move
into that mindset of a CFO,which is only going to set a

(11:05):
foundation for you growing abigger business.
So I love that.
That's one of the first thingsyou've outsourced.

Shanna (11:10):
Actually, I don't think I've ever even talked about
this, but when I first talked toa financial advisor, it was so
long ago that she looked at itand she's like you're doing
great, but there's not a lot forme to even do, because you
hired me before you even havemoney.
I'm like, oh, not a lot for meto even do, because you hired me
before you even have money.
I'm like, oh, so, which wasfine, I learned how to, you know
, manage all the money.
But it was interesting, I evenjumped the gun on money before

(11:31):
it was even coming in.

Kirsten (11:32):
So Because you set the intention that it was going to
come in Correct.
Yeah, yeah, and I think when itcomes to a financial planner,
if you have that person and youhave the plan, as your business
starts to make a little bit moremoney, you start pulling a
little bit aside to put awayright.
So instead of having lifestylecreep or buying more equipment
right away, you kind of balancethat out with the fact that I

(11:53):
want to set aside money forretirement.
And so, even though it might'vebeen a small amount, when you
first got started, you alreadyhad the intention, you already
had the plan in place.
If that's what you were goingto do with your business, your
business was going to supportyou now and your business was
going to be planning for yourretirement.

Shanna (12:09):
I love that.
Yes, and I know money is such a.
It's not always.
I know plenty of women who loveto talk about money.
I really do.
I really enjoy it, but I thinkthat came out of I was
previously divorced.
So you're like, faced with, youhave to see every dollar, you
have to figure it out.
And now I really enjoy moneyand the strategies behind it of
how can I build it, when can Iput it, how can you know and

(12:31):
that's something that not allwomen are comfortable with.
Like you said earlier, we kindof want to just look away and
not know where all those dollarsare going.
But when we actually face themand look at the scary word
budget or wherever that'slooking, actually face them and
look at the scary word budget orwherever that's looking, it can
be huge and impactful andpowerful to feel like, oh I'm,
I'm in charge of it and I cantell it where to go.

(12:51):
So, yeah, I love that, yesabsolutely.

Kirsten (12:54):
Money isn't something to be afraid of, it's energy,
right, right, you started abusiness because you were going
to charge people for yourproduct or your service and you
were going to make money as abusiness.
You know, right, that's, that'swhat a business is, it's what
it does.
And so, seeing that from dayone, I think is is really
powerful.
And, like you said, you didn'thave a choice but to make your

(13:15):
business successful, right, soyou get a job or find a way to
make your business successful,yeah, right, not only pay the
cost of having the business, butalso be able to pay yourself a
salary, so you could, you know,live your life, pay your rent,
pay your mortgage, right, that's.
That's the power of having abusiness is it's unlimited.
You have unlimited incomepotential, but we often have
limited beliefs about what wecan do within that business.

Shanna (13:38):
Absolutely, you're absolutely right about that.
And something I was thinkingabout for the strategies I've
heard this before and I don'tknow if you suggest this is when
I was first told of how to knowwhat to hire for and when is
write down every task you do,which is, like most women, quite
the list of things that we do.
And then I went through and I'mlike I was told, only circle

(14:00):
the ones that you are actuallyneeded for, and so when I went
back and circled those, I waslike, oh, I am not needed for
that many, of course, like youand I, the conversation, I need
to be in this chair and for mybusiness, I need to be behind
the camera, but there's so manytasks that can be outsourced,
whether it's an actual person oreven now technology can do

(14:20):
quite a bit with AI as well.
But that was a strategy that Iwas told when and how?

Kirsten (14:27):
Yeah, I think that's so true.
What do you actually have to doto make your business
successful?
What role do you have to play?

Shanna (14:33):
And.

Kirsten (14:33):
I think sometimes what happens is it's safer to sit
behind the computer on Canva andcreate social media posts than
it is to go out and network orhave a conversation with someone
you know, because again,there's that level of rejection.
So if you decided to try thatapproach, really question if I
do these things, is it reallygoing to help me grow the

(14:55):
business, or am I doing thembecause they're safe and I you
know?
So it's hard to be reallyhonest with ourselves in that
regard.

Shanna (15:02):
Yeah, yeah.
Is there a way that you suggestthat we can prepare for
outsourcing, whether that'simplementing a business to make
it a little bit more streamlined?
I don't know if there's, likeyou know, documents, how to set
it up, how to's, or whatever youkind of think.
I'd love to hear your thoughtson that, sure.

Kirsten (15:18):
I love the same.
If you do something more thanthree times and it has more than
three steps, you need todocument it, you need to turn it
into a process, and that's whatwe've seen over the years as
most people struggle when itcomes to outsourcing because, as
business owners, most of uslike there's so many things
we're not taught how to do.
We just jump in to starting abusiness not knowing all the

(15:38):
things.
We don't know Right.
But one of the things we reallystruggle with is systems and
processes, and we like to jokethat SOPs aren't sexy, but they
really are the foundation andthe backbone of a healthy
business.
So being able to document howyou do things and how you want
them done so that you candelegate them, that is a huge
part of the whole process.

(15:59):
And then really understandingwhat are the hard skills and the
soft skills of the person youneed to hire.
They definitely don't need afull-time bookkeeper.
Again, they need someone threeto five hours a month.
Most of our clients don't need afull-time software virtual
assistant, they just needsomeone.
You know, some months it's theydon't need them at all, and

(16:21):
other months they might needthem 10 to 15 hours to build out
a new landing page and a newfunnel and things like that.
So, understanding thatoutsourcing isn't always about
having a full-time person oreven a 20 hour a week person,
figuring out like it can be.
It can be, it can be smaller,it's more people but smaller
jobs right, because you want tohire the right person for the

(16:41):
job and you know you don'tnecessarily want your bookkeeper
to also be your software person, because it's very different,
necessarily.
Yeah, yeah, and the same thingwith marketing.
You know, understanding with amarketing virtual assistant that
in order for you to have thisperson create great content for
you, in most cases you have tocreate the foundational content

(17:02):
and then they can do everythingelse.
But in this day and age, whereit's so important for us to show
up in our content, you know youcan find ways that you can
create great.
You know podcast interviews orYouTube videos, and then a
virtual assistant can take thatand repurpose it, send it out to
your email list.
They can clean up the audio,they can take care of the SEO
and all the uploading and thingslike that.

(17:22):
But you have to do this onepiece.
Like you said, you have to bein that chair.
So when it comes to delegating,you're not always delegating
the whole job.
So to speak, you're delegatingpart of that job.

Shanna (17:34):
Yes, and somebody listening might go.
That's great.
So where do I find these people?
How and where do I even lookfor somebody to hire?
Is there places that yousuggest or that you've loved for
your clients as well?

Kirsten (17:48):
Yeah, we've been interviewing and training
clients, virtual assistants forour clients for years.
So it really is about askingyourself you know, do you feel
confident that you can hire thatperson on your own or do you
need to seek out support?
You know there's agencies.
You know there's lots ofdifferent ways to outsource.
If you want to go directly,there's websites like
onlinejobsph in the Philippinesand there's other sites that you

(18:09):
can go to to hire good people.
My advice would be hire slowly,fire quickly.
Go to to hire good people.
My advice would be hire slowly,fire quickly, and understanding
that.
You know everybody makes badhires from time to time and you
know, with the fact that we, wehire hundreds of virtual
assistants and and lots of andlots of different industries in
fact.
But it was interesting whenCOVID hit and you know

(18:31):
everything's shut down, even inthe Philippines.
So a lot of people were at homeand they were trying to get
virtual assistant jobs.
There were companies there thatwere teaching people how to
interview for jobs, not thatthey were teaching them to have
the skills to do the job, theywere teaching them how to really
interview for it.
And it was crazy because I toldJeannie I made two bad hires

(18:52):
because of this.
And so when I started diggingdeep because it's like you know,
usually our hires are prettysolid We've really dialed in
that process.
It's a very long process tokind of vet, we try to eliminate
more people than we interview,right, you're trying to get rid
of them before you get to theinterviewing stage.
But when I was able to go backand talk with those people, they
had both taken a program thattaught them how to interview,

(19:13):
and so I had to then go andchange our entire hiring process
to get around that.
And they're not bad people,right.
They just, I think they justthought, well, if I get this job
, I'll learn how to do it as Igo.
Reality is, you know, they theyhad the right words, they said
they could do these things, butthey really couldn't do them.
And so just be very cautiouswhen you're hiring, making sure

(19:36):
that you're taking the time,invest the time one, have the
systems and processes in place,have a process to onboard and
then have a really detailed jobdescription of exactly what you
want that person to do, hardskills and soft skills, of what
it'll take for that person to dothe job and, like I said,
really also listen to your gutas a woman.
If something seems off, itdoesn't matter how nice or how

(19:57):
wonderful that person is.
If your gut's telling you know,walk away and keep interviewing
.
Because, again, hiring whetherit's for us solopreneurs or
whether it's for big fortune 500companies hiring is hard.
And then maintaining greatpeople is the is the goal,
because if you can get someonewonderful on your team, you want
to keep them for years that'sthe ultimate goal and to have

(20:18):
them develop and to grow withthe company, because turnover
costs time and money.

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So then, while hiring, I knowthere's maybe some barriers and
maybe more often in women justbecause we tend to be a little
nervous about hiring somebodyelse because I can do it.
I can do all the tasks, all ofthat.

(21:50):
So what are some barriers thatmaybe you feel we have to
overcome, or maybe maybe somemind set shifts instead, before
we start hiring?

Kirsten (22:01):
Well, definitely say do you feel worthy?
Do you feel worthy of havingsupport in your business?
And you know, I find that ourfemale clients they end up
they're great bosses, they'revery nurturing, they, they're
very awesome at, you know,taking care of their team and
their team then often wants totake care of them.
It becomes this greatrelationship and the virtual
assistants stay with them foryears.
So, first of all, understandthat you deserve to have support

(22:24):
in your business and that thereare people out there who are
grateful to get to work forsomeone who pays them on time
and treats them well and, youknow, just gives them
opportunities to learn newthings and opportunities to grow
within the business.
So it's it's also focusing onthe fact that you are helping
other people, and I think that'sone.
One of the things that I thinkhelps a lot of women hire is

(22:47):
because you know you're not justhelping yourself, you're
helping this other person havethis great job.
So it's this awesome win-win.
You just have to be careful,especially as a woman, to not.
You need to be firm andconsistent, have deadlines, have
expectations and really leadyour business in that way.
I always say we lead people, wemanage tasks.

(23:09):
So having those SOPs and havinga project management software,
having deadlines, havingstructure for how you want
things done.
That's huge as far as howsuccessful you'll be.
The other thing is money right.
People often think, well, Ican't afford to hire.
Well, if you think about it, ifyou're doing $3 to $6 an hour
task yourself, you're reallykeeping yourself from being able

(23:31):
to grow a business.
So in a lot of cases you can'tafford not to outsource and I
love it.
I've had clients who've said Iwould go back to like college
days and living on ramen noodlesbefore I would give up my
virtual assistants.
Right yeah, when you realize,like, what it feels like to have
support, what it feels like tomeet with your virtual assistant
, your bookkeeping VA, once amonth and all your books are

(23:52):
done, or what it feels like toget together with a software
virtual assistant to work out,you know, maybe you want a quiz
as a lead magnet and to havesomeone to develop all of that
for you.
So you just get to focus on thecontent of that quiz and and
the results that you want yourclients to have from that quiz.
It really puts you in a placewhere you understand and
appreciate what can come fromthat.

(24:13):
I want to go back to sayingthat collaboration, having team
members, so it really does makea big difference.
And I would say start small.
You know, if you're, if youhaven't ever, if you've never
outsourced again, hire someonethree to five hours a month to
do something simple for you andjust start where you can.

Shanna (24:31):
Yeah.
So money is definitely onemisconception that you feel like
, oh, you can't afford what youcovered, and I know for myself.
When I was first hiring, one ofmy misconceptions was that I
can't hire full time, thereforeI just have to do it, and really
there's so many people,especially now where they have a
job, that it's not enough.

(24:51):
They need a little bit more.
So even those three to fivehours a week could be huge for
somebody, and actually that'smaybe what they want, because if
they have kids, they're like Ican only dedicate a few hours
and maybe a little more nextmonth, and so I think that's a
misconception I had to get over.
Is whatever hours I give isenough, because it's the right
person looking for those type oftasks and hours.

Kirsten (25:18):
So yeah, and we always think about employment.
We think about the really largecorporations, but small
businesses employ so many people.
And again, when you run an ad,let's say you're hiring someone
for you know, four or five hoursa week, the person who is
replying to the ad, that's whatthey want.
And then over time, if let'ssay you have more work for them,
you can ask you know, do youwant more work?
It's okay.
If you say no, I can hire asecond person to do five to six

(25:41):
hours.
So, being open to the fact thatit can look a lot of different
ways, and especially now, it'seasier now than ever before.
You know, with zoom andWhatsApp it makes it so easy to
build an incredible team halfwayaround the world to get very
specialized support in yourbusiness.

Shanna (25:57):
Yes, something you said on another podcast was that we
find the money for what we value, and it was interesting because
I always found that to be truein my photography businesses If
they value that service product,they'll find it, and I'm sure
you found the same.
And so, as business owners nowflipping it is, we're going to

(26:18):
find the money and what we value, and if we value our time with
family, or time to work out orwhatever how we wanna structure
our day, we're going to find themoney to then outsource as well
.
So I would love for you toexpand on that a little bit too.

Kirsten (26:33):
Yeah, it is interesting how we have this mindset of not
being able to afford something,right?
Right, like there's nothingwrong with getting your nails
done.
I might get my nails done if Igo to a conference or something
Otherwise.
I just don't because it's notthat important to me either.
But for people who have themdone regularly, they appreciate
that that's awesome, right?
So I would.

(26:54):
You know, not only would Irather spend my money on
something else other than nails,I'd rather spend my time like
going to a salon and sittingthere getting them done.
It's not my ideal of fun, right?
So if you value growing, if youreally want to grow a business,
if you have a bigger picturefor what you want that business
to be whether it's being able tohave the business send your
kids to college.
Whether it's have the businessto really be able to fund a

(27:14):
great retirement for you.
Whether it's have a businessthat could run you know, without
you you could take a couple ofweeks or a month off on going
and travel and the businesscould still run.
What are your goals for thebusiness?
What do you really want fromthat business?
Because it will give youwhatever you really ask of it,
as long as you're willing toinvest the time and money into

(27:36):
making those systems andprocesses and people within your
business work towards that goal.
So I think that's the thing is.
You know we all spend money, weall have money Again, if you
start to understand the value ofhaving people in your business
working for you, I think it'ssomething most people would not
give up Right.
Once you've had that support,you understand and you value it.

(27:58):
I think in the beginning it canbe hard, and so it's really
easy to use the excuse that Ican't afford it right now.
Right, you know, for example,most of our marketing virtual
assistants are $250 a month andthey work 20 hours a week, you
know, for our clients.
So you're looking at like 81bucks a week.
Would you be willing to giveout a nice dinner out?

(28:20):
Would you be willing to give upnice dinner out?
Would you be willing to give up?
You know, if money's reallytight, what would you give up in
order to have someonesupporting you in your marketing
on a regular basis, someone onyour team helping you create
great content consistently,helping you really build your
brand message?
What would that look like?
And then, what could you dowith the time that it would free

(28:41):
up?
Where would you invest thattime?
Would it be spending time withyour family or would it be
driving revenue?
So you could not have to worryabout cutting costs to afford
your virtual assistant.
You could have all the thingsthat you value.

Shanna (28:58):
Not to get completely off subject, but it popped in my
head that outsourcing is oneway that I feel like once
business owners start to do it,they realize even more so the
value.
It's scary when you jump in andthen you realize should have
done it sooner.
You know, I feel like we allfeel that way.
But another one of those isthings like like client
management or like CRM programsor different programs to help

(29:20):
your businesses.
A lot of times we're afraid tojump in on the giving the money
up front and not knowing if it'sactually going to help or bring
money.
But even things like that Ilook back and I'm like, oh, I
actually make more money becausemy clients know when to pay,
how to pay, I get tips, it'sautomatic.
All of these things thatactually move the business
forward are the things thatsometimes feel the most scary to

(29:43):
do, because it keeps theclients feeling this is
streamlined, this is a goodbusiness, it has a process, like
you said, and it doesn't feelsexy in the moment.
But looking back you're like,oh no, this is sexy because it
makes your business feel and runsmoother.

Kirsten (29:59):
Yeah, I mean, we've all experienced working with a
small business that you feltlike they were like a chicken
with their head cut off right,even though you have empathy and
compassion for them.
If your experience with workingwith them wasn't good, you're
definitely not using them againand you're definitely not
referring them right.
So investing in things like yousaid, like a CRM and technology

(30:20):
, makes a big difference.
I feel what's challenging, bothwith technology and outsourcing
, is it's not just an investmentof our money, it also is an
investment of our time.
So people often wait too lateto hire.
You want to hire before youabsolutely need to hire.
You want to hire because youhave to invest the time in doing
that.
So hiring ahead of being underthe gun all the time is the best

(30:41):
thing to do.
So hiring you know ahead ofahead of being under the gun all
the time is the best thing todo.
And that's hard because you'rethinking well, I still have
hours in the day, I could stilldo this.
But if you started thinkingabout and from your perspective,
you know if you you know I'mjust making this up but if you
had four or five photo shoots aweek, but you knew you wanted to
have 15, you need to startdelegating things before you
start having 15 photos.

(31:01):
Right, but you have to changethings.
Or if you're not bringing inenough clients, then it has to
do with your marketing.
Maybe you need to be outnetworking and pounding the
pavement, maybe you need tospend more time focusing on
really dialing in something likeyour ads or your marketing.
In order to do that, you oftenneed to delegate other things,

(31:21):
and so it kind of can bechallenging, whether it's again
spending money on software andtechnology or outsourcing,
because you often, like you said, you have to take that leap of
faith and then spend the timeand energy to get it set up and
to bring it back up to do itbefore it's actually too late

(31:41):
and you feel like you'redrowning, and often that's when
we're like, well, that's whenyou should hire, is that's?

Shanna (31:46):
you know you need somebody and by that point you
don't have the time to maybefind the right person, maybe
take a little extra time to findthat person.
And also, if that's your firstor second hire, depending on the
tasks, you still may have toteach them a little bit how you
like things done or how theprocess is done, and so if you
don't have those things in placeprior, you're not going to even

(32:07):
have time to teach them, andthen I feel like you'd be more
likely to be like I'll just doit, because now you don't have
time to reteach it.

Kirsten (32:14):
So I love that you said to hire before it's too late,
really, right, and it goes backto you know, a lot of people
have had jobs in the past.
You know, if you ever had a jobwhere whoever was managing you
or your team leader was so busythey didn't have time for you,
right, it's a horrible place tobe.
That's hard when you feel likeyou have to figure it all out
yourself and then you're gettingfussed at for not doing

(32:36):
something right, but you werenever told really how they want
it done.
You don't want to be thatperson and so you do need to
have the time.
And one of the things thatdrives me crazy and you know I
still hear it is that, well,I've hired and it was more work
than it was worth.
Well, yes, it is going to bework up front, right, it's not.
It's not all rainbow andsunshine.

(32:56):
It's like anything else in yourbusiness.
You, it's work and you'relearning a new skill set.
You're learning a new skill setof hiring and onboarding and
training and setting up theseSOPs.
So it is challenging, but theinvestment of that time and the
energy is so worth it.
You know, when your team ishumming along and, like you said
, you're getting compliments onhow awesome your onboarding

(33:18):
process is, or how easy it isfor your clients to pay, or the
fact that they got all of theseautomatic reminders, like they
just see you as a biggerbusiness and a really
professional company and theywant to sing your praises
because every interactionthey've had with you has gone
really smoothly.
And it's not not that you'renot wonderful, but it's not
because you're like the end allbe all.

(33:39):
It's because you you have greatsystems, processes, great
technology and great support.

Shanna (33:43):
Yes, yeah, and especially, even just getting
back to those clients too, itjust makes it a little quicker
and if you can be the person, ifthey're looking at several
services or products and y'allare small businesses they're
going to go with who respondsthe quickest, easiest, and that
process is the easiest as well.
So, yeah, I love that SomethingI would love for you to talk a

(34:07):
little bit about.
If there's anything that wehaven't chatted about, anything
that you feel would bebeneficial, that we haven't
touched on and this could bepersonal, maybe it's something
from the heart or a business too, that I would love for you to
share, sure.

Kirsten (34:21):
You and I were talking earlier about how much we love
having podcasts.
You know, you start a podcastand you get to have these great
interviews, these greatconversations with people and,
yes, we're doing it for ouraudience, but we feel selfish,
right, because we get to havethese amazing conversations and
it's so amazing.
I think the same is true whenyou start to build your team.
You start to feel like you havethis, you have a secret weapon

(34:44):
because you have these awesomehuman beings, because they are,
they're people.
You know you're not justthrowing tasks at a robot, right
, you have these awesome peoplewho are on your team and you get
to know them and you realizethat you're changing their lives
more than you imagine.
Whether that is saying hey,your birthday's next week, want
to wish you a happy birthday andtake the day off, or whether
it's hearing stories like youknow, I was able to buy an air

(35:06):
conditioning unit for myparents' bedroom.
And I never thought I'd be ableto do that.
You know, or I was able to buyone for their room and one for
my room and we've never had airconditioning.
So you are really changingother people's lives.
You're bringing these awesomehuman beings into your business

(35:30):
and onto your team and you aretruly changing their lives and I
think those of us who take thatresponsibility seriously and
really find it's just likehaving a podcast interview it
warms my heart right.
I feel selfish.
I've done so many ways that I'mthe luckiest person in the
world to have all these greatpeople on our team and when I
get to help our clients hire andsee them now have the support

(35:50):
of someone on their team to helpthem, but also know that them
paying their virtual assistanton time and being a great
manager and being a great bossis changing their lives halfway
around the world, it's truly ablessing to be able to be a part
of that.

Shanna (36:04):
Yes, no, I totally agree, and it was so funny that
we were talking about that.
We both feel selfish in a way,because we're doing this for
other people, to for them tofeel good, to grow their own
businesses, to have themotivation and the courage to
move forward.
But every time I leave aconversation my heart just feels
like, oh, that was a mentorsession for myself, which is
incredible and lets me know likewe do need to collaborate,

(36:27):
because if we can walk away fromconversations feeling that way,
imagine a conversation aboutyour own business time and time
again so that people can maybespark those new ideas and
creativity.
So I love that so much.
And creativity, so I love thatso much.
And it's not to say to quick, goback, that you hand those tasks

(36:48):
off or you hand that job off tosomebody, that you can't still
have a hand in it.
If you enjoyed doing something,you can still peek in or check
in and go hey, I want to postthis.
So, hey, I want to write a blogpost.
It doesn't mean you're out ofit forever.
It just means for that chunk ofit, they're better at it.
That's their job.

Kirsten (37:05):
I can actually share with you and everyone listening.
Her background is graphicdesign.
She owned a marketing agency,and it's so funny because maybe
we're talking about a newlanding page or we're talking
about something, and I can seeher getting excited about it,
right.
And so I'll say to her do youwant to design this or do you
want to delegate it?
And it's so interesting to seeher think about it.

(37:28):
And sometimes she'll say youknow what?
You know, matt's off at rugbyand the kids are gone this
weekend.
I do want to kind of take a handat it on Saturday when I have
some you know creativity andjust play with it.
Maybe I'll get it started andhand it off.
But yeah, I definitely want todig into this.
Or other times she'll say, no,I'm excited about it, but I'll
just I'll delegate it and seewhat they come back with.
And so even you don't, like yousaid, you don't have to stop

(37:51):
doing things you love doing.
It's really a matter of if youhave the time and if it's the
best use of your time in thatmoment.
But the other thing that's soawesome is the number of times
that she's come back and said Iam blown away by this Like I
would have never thought aboutthis.
The way they did this was justphenomenal, and it's, you know,
so awesome to be able tocompliment your team and saying,

(38:14):
like, how did you come up withthis element or this idea?
Like this is brilliant.
You know, we love this and wewould like to kind of take this
element or this look and feelinto our next landing page or
whatever.
So it really is amazing andit's your business, do what you
want in.
It May also find in Jeannie'scase, I think she's more
creative because she'ssurrounded by creatives, it's

(38:36):
not just her.

Shanna (38:38):
Absolutely so.
If everyone has fallen in lovewith you like I have through
this conversation, which I knowthey have.
How can we find you and followyou and work with you?
And I know there's a freebie aswell that we'd like, that you'd
like to share.

Kirsten (38:51):
Yeah, so we have a free guide called double your income
with a marketing virtualassistant, and they can get that
at outsourcing for bossescom.
And if you'd like to find us,judy and I are both at six
figure business coachingcom,that's Sourcingforbossescom.
And if you'd like to find us,judy and I are both at
sixfigurebusinesscoachingcom,that's S-I-X
figurebusinesscoachingcom.
And there's a way to book acall and just have a
conversation.
And, yeah, if we can help youin any way, we're here to do

(39:12):
that.

Shanna (39:13):
Absolutely, and I will of course put all of those links
in the bio too, in case they'redriving or running or whatever
they're doing, so that they canfind them later and have all
those resources.

Kirsten (39:21):
Thank you so much, Sean .

Shanna (39:22):
I appreciate you Of course, I appreciate you too.
It was so lovely to chat withyou.
I'm so glad we were able to, sothank you.
Are you a photography businessowner looking to elevate your
business?
I started using PickTime and amabsolutely in love.
I have been looking for adifferent solution and this has
been it.
It is the ultimate streamlinefor workflow and enhancing

(39:44):
client experience.
It has beautiful galleries andit's easy for clients to
navigate.
Download with all of images oryou can select how many images
they download, which isincredible for my business.
I also love the AI integration,which means if you have more
than six people in the gallery,they can just simply click on
their face and look for them anddownload those photos.

(40:07):
I love it.
It has a built-in e-commercecapabilities, making it simple
to sell those digital downloads,prints and merchandise all in
one place.
Now you can join the thousandsof photographers who trust pick
time and me not to just storeyour work but grow your business
.
You can try it for free with mycode and get also an extra free

(40:29):
month when you upgrade to apaid plan.
Link is going to be in thenotes or you can head to divista
photographypick-timecomreferral.
You can head right to the notesand click on the link so you
can start your beautifulgalleries today.
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