August 31, 2024 • 46 mins
In this episode of The Sustainable Success Series, host Nichi Morrin welcomes Dr. Hayley Quinn, a clinical psychologist turned anti-burnout business coach and founder of Welcome to Self. Dr. Hayley shares her powerful journey from experiencing severe burnout and chronic illness to transforming her relationship with herself and creating a thriving business that prioritises self-care, compassion, and sustainable practices. She discusses the profound impact of self-compassion, the challenges of living with invisible illnesses, and practical steps to maintain wellbeing while pursuing professional and personal goals.
Key Takeaways:
- The Power of Self-Compassion: Dr. Hayley emphasizes the transformative power of self-compassion in overcoming burnout and chronic illness. She shares her experience with Compassion Focused Therapy (CFT) and how connecting with her compassionate self changed her life.
- Navigating Burnout and Chronic Illness: Dr. Hayley discusses the challenges of balancing work, parenting, and health, and how burnout and chronic illness impacted all areas of her life. She highlights the importance of asking for help and being vulnerable with loved ones.
- Intentional Self-Care Practices: Dr. Hayley shares practical tips for managing chronic illness, including adopting a plant-based diet, practicing mindful movement, and planning self-care around life events. She stresses the importance of meeting yourself where you are and being flexible with self-care routines.
- Redefining Greatness: Dr. Hayley redefines greatness as having a compassionate relationship with oneself, which in turn opens doors to living a fulfilling life. She encourages listeners to focus on their own definitions of success rather than societal expectations.
- Practical Steps for Daily Well-Being: Dr. Hayley offers simple, accessible practices for daily well-being, such as soothing rhythm breathing and regular self check-ins. She also discusses the importance of receiving compassion from others and not being afraid to ask for help.
- Maintaining Growth and Compassion: Dr. Hayley highlights the ongoing practice of compassion and self-care in maintaining sustainable success and personal growth. She encourages listeners to consider what their future selves would want them to do today.
Where to Find Dr. Hayley Quinn:
- Instagram: @drhayleydquinn
- Podcast: https://drhayleydquinn.com/podcast
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Intro and Outro music: Inspirational Acoustic - Organic Harmony by Sonican; and Andrii Poradovskyi from Pixabay.
Disclaimer: This content is general in nature and intended for educational purposes only. It is not deemed as psychological treatment and does not replace the advice from your health professional or need for psychological treatment.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the sustainablesuccess series.
The podcast where my mission isto transform the worlds of those
living with invisibleconditions.
Supporting them to become theirbiggest advocates, begin to heal
and make sustainable changes toget back.
Being too busy, living.
We explore sustainable successin health relationships in
business, we raise awareness andwe share humble and relatable
(00:24):
stories from people just likeyou.
Driven visionary people whodream of more for their life
without sacrificing their healthor happiness.
Or being stuck behind thoseinvisible chains.
Plus the insights knowledge, andknow-how from those in the
field.
I'm your host, Nikki Morin.
I've been through the trenchesmyself through trauma, adversity
(00:44):
and invisible conditions.
I've combined.
My lived experience, mylearnings and my diverse
knowledge as a clinicalpsychologist.
Sustainable success, coach,author, rural business woman,
and entrepreneur to transform mylife.
My vision is to inspire a globalmovement for a world where
invisible conditions areunderstood, accepted and met
(01:05):
with sustainable solutions,impairing people to live with
energy, purpose, andfulfillment.
And I do this through themillion seen movement.
Join me and be inspired.
Be curious in become excited.
This is the sustainable success.
Nichi (01:24):
Welcome everybody.
I'm your host, Nikki Moran.
Today we have Dr.
Haley Quinn joining us.
So I'm very excited to introduceDr.
Haley Quinn.
Haley is a clinical psychologistturned anti burnout business
coach and the founder of Welcometo Self and hosts the Welcome to
Self with Dr.
Haley Quinn podcast.
(01:44):
Haley works with service basedbusiness owners, transforming
their relationship withthemselves and their business.
Having experienced burnout andchronic illness while studying,
working, and solo parenting,Hayley learned to live a
fulfilling life withoutcompromising well being.
She's passionate about helpingothers achieve their business
goals in a way that prioritizessustainable practices, self
(02:09):
care, and self compassion, sothey achieve the outcomes they
want without burning out.
She knows if you thrive, yourbusiness can too.
So welcome Dr.
Hayley Quinn.
So we'll just start.
Can you tell us a little bitabout yourself and what led you
to the path you're on today?
Hayley (02:31):
yeah, well, a bit of a bit of a windy road for me.
I dropped out of school or leftschool.
I used to call myself a schooldropout, but it's not very
compassionate.
Um, I left school very early andthen came back to study later on
in life.
And did a bachelor of psychologyand honors and then went on to
do a clinical PhD all the whileparenting on my own my, uh, my
(02:56):
son, who I think was about threewhen I first started my
studying.
And, um, so I was, I've been aclinical psychologist for many
years now and.
In more recent years kind ofmoved my work into the coaching
space rather than just doingpsychology.
Nichi (03:14):
It sounds like you were very high achieving and achieved
a lot of things in that careerleading up to being a
psychologist, um, doing a PhDalso.
And, but I understand thatthings haven't always been easy.
Do you think there was a time ora specific challenge?
that you've faced in your life.
Hayley (03:36):
Oh yeah.
Plenty.
But I guess the biggest thingfor me in terms of kind of
pivoting or evolving my careerwas the process of kind of
studying solo parenting.
Whilst I was studying, I wasworking a lot of jobs.
I didn't realize at the time Ihad underlying health condition.
(03:57):
And I ended up having a reallysignificant period of burnout
and then being diagnosed withchronic illness.
So I had worked really hard tobecome a psychologist and kind
of built up my um, caseload ofclients and was working in that
space, but had to actually leavewhere I was working because it
got to the point that I reallycouldn't do much at all.
(04:20):
Like at one point there, I couldbarely even get a wash into the
washing machine without beingreally, really exhausted.
So that really changed thingsfor me is sort of finding out
that I was extremely burnt out,but also had these underlying
health conditions that I didn'trealize I had.
Nichi (04:36):
So you've, after all that hard work and study and building
up your practice, you foundyourself with chronic illnesses
and burnt out.
And it sounds like it was quitehard to even do some of the
simple tasks at home.
In what other ways do you thinkthat this impacted you
personally and professionally?
Hayley (04:58):
Oh gosh, in so many ways, and I think this is the
case for many, many people, isit's not just your, your health.
I think one, it really canimpact your mental health, but
it also impacts yourrelationships and the sort of
activities that you're doing.
And, you know, friends wereinviting me to go to things that
I normally would have said yesto.
(05:20):
And over time, I would just haveto keep saying no because I
didn't have any energy.
My relationship, um, by thistime I had remarried, um,
thankfully to a very, verysupportive husband.
And.
That changed the relationship Ihad with him as well, not in a
particularly bad way, but in theway that I had to really kind of
(05:43):
lean on him and depend on himfor a lot of things because I
couldn't do, I couldn't beworking and doing the things I
needed to do at home.
So he was really taking on allof the kind of household tasks
as well, which for me, I hadalways been a very independent
woman.
Um, I.
(06:03):
Found it hard to ask for help.
So that was a huge learning forme going through that process.
Cause I had no choice but to askfor help.
And there were many times whereI really felt like a burden and
it, and it really did start toget me down.
You know, when I look back andreflect, there was times when I
felt really, really low becauseof the impact that it was having
(06:23):
across all domains.
I didn't know if I was going tobe able to keep working as a
psychologist.
Um, I wasn't seeing my friendsas much.
I wasn't, I wasn't leaving thehouse very much at the worst of
my illness.
I was depending so much on myhusband.
So yeah, I really wasn't feelinggreat and I was becoming very,
very self critical.
Absolutely.
Nichi (06:43):
Wow, so what you're saying is becoming burnt out and
exhausted and the chronicillness is developing, it seemed
to impact every aspect of yourlife, whether it's in work, out
of work, your relationships, andthat is something that was new
to you and something that wouldhave been quite defeating in a
(07:04):
way.
And it's, it's something thatyou often hear with a lot of,
um, health professionals or, youknow, women that are out there
being really busy and puttingeveryone else's needs first.
And then often the health comeslast.
That's something where I've beenas well.
Hayley (07:22):
And I think throughout my life, I've had challenges of
varying degrees, you know,throughout my life and I'd
always just got through stuffpretty much on my own.
And it was at this point that Irealized that actually I
couldn't do this on my own.
And, you know, when I look backand reflect now, it was, you
know, It was actually one of thebiggest gifts I could have been
(07:43):
given because I had so muchpersonal growth and the
relationship, not only withother people, but my
relationship with myself reallychanged through that, which I'm
very, very grateful for.
Nichi (07:55):
So would you say Hayley that that may have been a
turning point, like even despitegoing through all these lows and
these struggles, was that sortof a turning point for you do
you think?
Hayley (08:06):
I have a very specific point that I remember for me.
Um, I was still working veryminimally when I could, and I
was going to trainings in myrole as a psychologist.
And one of the frameworks that Ilearned in, in my career as a
psychologist is compassionfocused therapy.
(08:28):
And I happened to be at atraining down in Byron Bay that,
uh, Dr.
Dennis Tursh was running.
And, He asked if somebody wantedto volunteer to do a role play
or a real play.
So in a role play, you know, we,we may act as if we're somebody
else, but in the real play, it'slike, okay, bring a situation of
(08:49):
your own to the table and we'llwork with that.
And I put my hands up and Iwanted to use this aspect of my
health and In CFT we use chairwork where we'll kind of put
multiple versions of selves indifferent chairs.
So I'd volunteered for that andI, it was literally in one chair
was kind of my anxious self inanother chair was myself critic
(09:13):
and there was kind of thisconversation going on between
these two selves of, you know,My critic tell me how useless I
was and what a burden and that,you know, nobody wanted to hang
out with me anymore anyway,cause we're always sick and
turned down invitations and allthat kind of stuff that comes up
for us.
I think when we've got chronicillness.
And then I was in the chair ofthe compassionate self and it
(09:36):
was a really, really profoundmoment for me because I
connected with thiscompassionate part of myself and
it was, I can, even when I thinkabout it now, it always brings
up a lot of emotion because Ireally do think that that was
the day that my life really,really changed.
And it was like this inner voicethat just said to me, you are
(09:57):
enough.
No matter what you are doing orwhat you are not doing or
whether you are well or whetheryou are not well, you are enough
and you are valuable and you arelovable.
And then I just had this thingof like, Oh my gosh, like
welcome to self.
It was like, I had met myselfproperly.
(10:18):
For the first time, and it wasthat profound for me that I
actually went on and named mybusiness.
Welcome to self.
Um, I, I went on a journey ofreally changing the relationship
that I had with myself throughthe lens of compassion,
following that.
And that for me was a huge shiftin how I viewed my life with
(10:43):
chronic illness, how I viewedmyself with chronic illness and
what I chose, chose to do fromthere, really.
Nichi (10:52):
That sounds absolutely amazing and it gave me
goosebumps just at the thoughtof it.
When you're explaining you hadthat huge big shift within
yourself and you could just havethat compassion for yourself,
um, and feel that you arelovable and you know you are
valuable and all those thingsand like that's just amazing and
(11:13):
your perspectives changed.
on how you were viewingyourself.
Hayley (11:17):
Absolutely.
Nobody, nobody chooses chronicillness.
Nobody chooses these invisibleillnesses.
Like we, we don't set out andthink, Oh, when I grow up, I
hope I can't do much.
Um, you know, I hope I strugglewith lots of things.
I mean, nobody thinks thatnobody chooses this.
This is something that happensin our lives.
And I think it's so importantthat we give ourselves the space
(11:40):
and grace and compassion to beable to manage it.
Because I think, you know, forme, the self criticism was
impacting my nervous system in away that was, compounding what I
was dealing with and making mypain worse and making my fatigue
worse and you know, just makingeverything worse really.
Nichi (12:04):
Absolutely, and I think you have just fully hit the nail
on the head.
It's like being hit by a buswhen one of these chronic
illnesses decides to takeresidence in your body.
It affects every part of yourlife and sometimes self
compassion goes and we can labelourselves and talk to ourselves
(12:25):
in such a criticising way, andthe impact that that has on the
nervous system.
is absolutely huge.
So I think everything you havejust said is absolutely so true
for people that do have theseinvisible conditions.
So after you had that absolutelyhuge shift what steps did you
(12:46):
take to try and overcome thechallenges that you faced?
Hayley (12:50):
Look, I think some of that was the sort of mindset
work of looking at, you know,what is it that I can do rather
than always thinking about whatcan't I do.
Um, Thinking about the thingsthat my body does for me rather
than, you know, why can't I dothis?
And why am I, you know, why ismy body letting me down here,
(13:11):
there and everywhere?
So I, I kind of really would.
I guess I have a gratitudepractice for, for my body,
despite her having thesechallenges, there's so much that
she does for me.
So that there was a gratitudepractice.
One of the things I did, andit's not necessarily going to be
something I'm not certainly nothere to give advice around these
kinds of things, but one of thethings I did was I changed to a
(13:33):
plant based diet and that hadbeen a very intuitive process
for me.
I'd started to cut out thingsthat I guess I was starting to
really tune in more andlistening to myself and I had
already started cutting lots ofthings out of my diet that I
knew would just, after I'd eatenthem, I would feel either very,
very fatigued or I'd notice aflare up in my pain.
(13:56):
I, I went on, um, I went to see,I think she was a nutritionist
and, I went changed to a plantbased diet for the, for the
first little while it was quitestrict.
Um, but the improvement in mypain and stuff was phenomenal.
Again, I kind of prefaced allthis with, um, that's, I did
(14:19):
this with other healthprofessionals.
I didn't do this stuff on myown.
So that for me has been And Iknow that if I, um, like
recently we've been moving houseand we've been busy, so we
haven't been eating perhaps aswell as we would like to
normally eat.
And I do notice an increase ininflammation and pain in my body
(14:39):
when that happens.
So I'm more tuned into it now.
And sometimes I just go, well,you know what, this is how it is
for the next couple of weeks.
Cause there's a lot going on.
Um, But generally I do try andbe mindful around the sort of
foods that I know are impactfulfor me.
I try and do exercise thatmatches where I'm at.
(15:02):
Um, at first I would be like,Oh, I need to be going walking
for this long all the time andblah, blah, blah.
And the things.
Now I realize, It's meetingmyself where I'm at every day,
or even in the afternoon, mightfeel different to the morning,
like just before coming on herewith you, you know, we have just
been in the moving process.
I just went and had a littlerest, a bit of a nap on the
(15:24):
couch, because that's what mybody was telling me I needed.
So, you know, Those are kind ofthe main things apart from then
the practice of compassion thatthat is an everyday ongoing
practice for me.
Um, really tuning in, checkingin with myself, offering myself
(15:45):
compassion, reminding myselfthat I didn't choose this and
it's okay to be however I am.
And I think when we can tune inand listen to ourselves, we can
kind of ask that question ofwhat is it that I need right
now?
And that could be different dayto day, week to week, hour to
hour.
Um, but then you can offer thatto yourself.
(16:07):
You know, if we're sensitive toour own suffering, we can
actually have that motivation toalleviate or prevent that
suffering.
Nichi (16:15):
I love all of those words, all, everything you've
just said.
And leaning in to listen toyourself, it sounds like that is
something you become reallyfamiliar with and doing regular
is listening to, I like how youcalled her she, what she was
needing and what she was tellingyou and you were listening and
(16:36):
being compassionate and givingher what she needed.
Hayley (16:38):
Yeah.
That's, that's been a gamechanger for me.
I think if anybody was, wouldask me what is the biggest thing
you've done differently that'schanged your life the most, it
would be allowing myself to slowdown.
Tune in, ask myself how I am andwhat I need, and then respond
(17:01):
with space and grace andcompassion.
Nichi (17:05):
Oh, that's amazing.
I think I need to start yourjourney with your welcome to
self.
It sounds so good.
Um, and I really like too howyou mentioned, you would try and
focus on the functionality.
So instead of being angry atyour body or because of what was
(17:28):
going on, it's like, well,you're being grateful for what
she could do.
Hayley (17:32):
Yeah, yeah.
I wrote, um, I'd gone, because Iliterally went from not being
able to barely get off the couchsome days or get out of bed.
Or if I did go for a walk, Imight go for a walk or two, you
know, a small walk for a coupleof days, and then I could spend
three days in bed.
And my husband would have to doeverything.
And when things got better forme, and it certainly wasn't an
(17:54):
overnight thing, although someof it did happen within a matter
of weeks, like there was somechanges that were really
profound for me.
Um, I then ended up, you know, Iwent over and presented at a
compassion retreat in New York.
I went over to a conference inLondon and I would have these
moments of like.
Wow.
I didn't even know if I wasgoing to be able to keep on
working.
And now I have this career thattakes me around the world, doing
(18:17):
different things and evolving mybusiness into something I want
it to be.
And, you know, tomorrow, nextweek, I'm off to a business
retreat in Bali.
I mean, you know, I, I've never,I'd lost a lot of hope.
I'd lost a lot of hope.
And I think what happens is wecan end up in a really, really
dark place and it's hard then tobe grateful.
(18:39):
And it's hard then to see what'shappening.
But for me, it was a practice,an intentional practice of how
am I going to see thisdifferently?
How am I going to do what I canand then be grateful for that?
And I had been to, um, I think Iwas, I've been to a trip to
(19:01):
Canberra and on the way home, Iwrote a, um, meditation around
my body and being grateful.
And it was that sort of stuffof, I need to change how I see
this and what it means for me.
And rather than chronic illnessbeing this thing that is ruining
(19:27):
my life, because I certainlyfelt like that at some point, it
was like, well, this is justruining my life.
I mean, this is rubbish.
What am I going to do?
This is awful.
It became what is the best lifeI can live with chronic illness.
And that really made adifference.
Like I don't, I don't see myselfso much now as somebody with a
(19:50):
chronic illness.
That's something that I have todo some management of, you know,
if I didn't take care of myself,well, I imagine that I probably
would end up in a place whereI'm not so healthy again, but
it's not this, it doesn't havethe same kind of what, what like
(20:14):
level of identity for me.
If that makes
Nichi (20:17):
Yeah.
Oh that does make sense.
So what's the best life I canlive despite the chronic
illness?
That's a really good question.
A really great question forpeople to ask themselves because
it is so easy just to be pulleddown and feel like there's no
hope and, and just be defined oryour whole functioning limited.
Hayley (20:40):
yeah, absolutely.
And I would like to say as well,um, because I don't want that to
sound invalidating or minimisethe suffering that people are
under.
it's awful! You know, there'saspects of this that are awful.
And if you are feeling in areally dark place and if you are
(21:00):
kind of, you know, we have abuilt in negativity bias as
well.
So our brains are designed tofind all the crappy things,
aren't they?
Um, and if you are in this placewhere all you can see is the
darkness, That makes sense.
You know, it makes sense that,you know, you feel down, that it
can feel hopeless.
So I don't in any way want toinvalidate somebody's suffering
(21:23):
or minimize how difficult it isto live with chronic illness.
I know for me, part of mymotivation, now I am well.
And I can do all these thingsand I've evolved my business to
a business that I can engage inand have fun and really love.
And I'm very grateful for thelife I've got.
I'm also very motivated to takecare of myself because I don't
(21:44):
ever want to go back there.
So, you know, I get that it's,it can be a really, really hard
time.
Nichi (21:52):
Absolutely, I think it can definitely be some of the
most isolating and the, thedarkest times when your health
is impacted.
And I think that reallyreinforces why it's so important
to bring more support andawareness, um, for people that
are going through this.
Hayley (22:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, you know, having goodpeople on your, your health team
and your social network and allthat sort of stuff is really,
really helpful.
And, and again, I know noteverybody has great access to
all of that, but if you can,even if it's a small network of
people, I think it really,really is so very important.
Nichi (22:30):
Yes, definitely.
So as you started to have thesechanges in perspectives and you
started making this shift inyour life, How did your approach
to life and your goals change asyou started to break free from
this invisibility?
Yeah,
Hayley (22:47):
Oh, wow.
Um, how did it change?
Well, massively, I think.
Nichi (22:52):
it sounds like it.
Hayley (22:54):
Yeah, massively.
I, I think one of the thingsthat comes to mind is, I used to
think, how am I going to be ableto do anything feeling the way I
feel?
I went that change for me tothinking about what is it I want
(23:16):
to do?
What goals do I want to have?
What do I want to achieve?
Whether that's in business or inpersonal life.
And for me to be able to do thatin the best way possible, how
can I best take care of myself?
Nichi (23:31):
Yep.
Hayley (23:32):
So my goals and my aspirations and my forward
thinking and future thinking wasthe first bit.
And then it was like, and okay,based on that, how will I best
take care of myself rather than,Oh, I'm so unwell.
What am I going to do?
Is it even possible to do ABC?
(23:54):
And even now I mentioned beforeI'm off next week overseas and
already I'm like, okay, well I'mdoing that.
Absolutely.
It's going to be, I'm going tohave lots of fun.
It's going to be fantastic.
What do I need to have in place?
And one of the things for me isthis weekend is going to be a
slow one because I'm going to doplane travel and, you know,
(24:17):
foreign country, navigatingeverything and, and working
whilst I'm over there.
So this weekend will be a veryslow one for me.
I'm also going to make sure, um,and have been that I'm eating
well.
Nichi (24:34):
Yeah.
Hayley (24:35):
as well because I don't know what food I'm gonna be able
to have access to when I'm overthere and is it going to be the
best sort of food for me?
And then I'll also have a planthat often when I travel I, I
come home and I make a very bigpot of vegetable soup.
'cause my body is like, give meall the stuff So it's those, I
(24:57):
kind of think, how am I gonnafront load my self-care.
So what are the things I'm goingto do before the event or the
trip or the whatever it mightbe?
And then what am I going to dowhilst I'm there?
And then what will I do when Iget back?
So again, I've got some time offwhen I get back before I have to
start working again.
(25:17):
So, so I think about what is itI want to do?
What do I want to achieve in mylife?
What am I excited about?
And then given that I want to dothose things, what's going to be
the best way?
for me to take care of my bodyand my mind.
Nichi (25:33):
and that sounds fantastic.
It sounds like there's a lot ofawareness around intentional
planning for self care.
Hayley (25:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
Which can be tiring too.
So, you know, that can be alittle bit exhausting.
So what I do for that is I havethings, um, in my notes section
on my phone that are almost likepre former travel, um, Things
that I just have to go, okay,copy that into the new place I'm
(26:03):
going.
So I'm not thinking abouteverything from scratch.
Nichi (26:07):
Yeah.
That's a really great idea for astrategy.
Hayley (26:12):
I always think, how can you lessen the cognitive load
Nichi (26:16):
Yeah, I
Hayley (26:16):
need to do?
And if it's something you'regoing to do more than once.
Put some, some things in yournotes in your phone and then you
can just refer back to that.
Nichi (26:26):
think definitely when it comes to the self care stuff,
and particularly eating, it canbe really hard if you don't have
any pre planning or structurearound that, and you're just
choosing off the bat, thenyou're more likely to choose
those things that aren't goingto be helpful for your energy or
your fatigue or yourinflammation.
It
Hayley (26:45):
One of the things that, um, I try and do and don't
always manage, like I say, wewere moving.
Everything goes out the windowwhen you're moving.
Um,
Nichi (26:54):
does.
Hayley (26:55):
I do meal planning for the week so that I know what
we're getting.
I know what we're having.
I'll bulk cook as well.
So that I don't, that neither ofus are having to cook meals
every night, things like that,which I find really helpful.
And again, with space and grace,I mean, I'm not always going to
do it.
Sometimes we don't eat the bestfood or we, we just go, we made
(27:20):
a plan to budget for takeawaywhilst we were moving because
that actually was the kindestthing to do for ourselves and
would minimize food waste.
Because if we bought groceries,we probably weren't going to
have time and they'd end up inthe bin anyway.
So
Nichi (27:34):
Yeah, exactly.
Hayley (27:35):
It's being flexible that this doesn't have to always look
a particular way.
Nichi (27:41):
Yeah, it's about being, having good enough plans, but
that you can have theflexibility.
Hayley (27:46):
Yeah.
Nichi (27:48):
So Hayley, how do you think you define greatness for
yourself?
And has that changed over time?
Hayley (27:55):
Oh gosh, absolutely.
Throughout my life, I, ifsomebody had said that to me,
even probably 10, 15 years ago,I'd have been like, well, I
don't know.
Greatness.
I know that's what other peopledo.
How would I define it now?
Greatness.
Well, for me, greatness is theability to have the best
(28:20):
possible relationship I can withmy heart, with myself, because
through having that, I reallycan step out into the best
possible life that I'm evergoing to have.
And I'm, I've proved to myselffrom, you know, being a young
person who.
was very self neglectful, had noreal relationship with myself
(28:41):
was except a very harsh one andreally didn't care much about
what my work was or what I wasdoing as long as earning some
money, who cares kind of thing.
Um, I didn't have aspirations ofbeing any, you know, having a
particular career to goingthrough that.
And then now.
(29:03):
thinking about what I want toput out into the world and that
the impact I want to have in theworld and things like that is so
very different.
So I think, I think it's changeda huge amount for me.
I don't know if I, I think Iforgot your question as I was
talking then.
Nichi (29:21):
you define greatness for yourself, you said about having
like that compassion foryourself and the way that you
said it, you spoke with so muchpassion and so much conviction.
Hayley (29:35):
Honestly, the, the change you can have in your life
by introducing compassion, notonly through my own experience.
I mean, obviously my experienceshows me that really strongly,
but I've worked with lots ofpeople and done this kind of
work.
And I think when we change therelationship with ourselves, we
(29:58):
change everything.
Nichi (30:00):
Yep.
Hayley (30:01):
the relationship with other people.
We change our perspective onwhat the world is like.
We change the way we can makechoices.
I work with business owners.
We can build businesses thatsuit who we are as human beings,
um, how we want things to be forour families.
I'm, I'm extremely passionateabout the work that I do.
(30:21):
I feel very, very privileged todo the work that I do.
And I know how.
Difficult life can feel and Iknow how different life can
feel.
And if I can help other peoplesee that as well, then wow, like
how lucky am I?
Nichi (30:41):
It sounds like this.
Being, having that compassionfor yourself can just open so
many doors in your life, cantake you so many places that may
not have been possible if youdidn't have that in place.
Hayley (30:55):
I think so because I think we can be so harsh and for
lots of reasons.
It can be your early life stuff.
It can be the way society iswith us.
It can be for so many reasons,but I think we can be so harsh
with ourselves.
We can be so disconnected fromourselves.
We can have so much fear ofjudgment from other people and
(31:15):
so much self doubt.
And in my experience, when wechange this relationship with
ourselves and when we are morecompassionate, it's not to say
we don't have fear and doubt andall those things, but it almost
gives us an armor or something.
It's like you've got thiscompassionate part of you that
is alongside you, coaching youand cheering you on and sharing
(31:39):
wisdom and saying, Oh, maybedon't go down that way.
Come over this way.
It might be a little bit morehelpful.
Um, I do think it makes amassive change.
Nichi (31:49):
Yes, your own armour and your own cheer squad right there
with you all the time.
Hayley (31:53):
Yeah, and one of the things for me in terms of
because I still have periodswhere I have quite significant
pain when I Have this more openmore mindful more curious
Approach to what's happening andI connect with my compassionate
(32:16):
self So I know that I'm actuallygoing to take care of myself
through it I actually find thatI don't suffer the pain as much
Like when I surrender to it andget more curious, like that's
been my experience that that canreally, really help.
Nichi (32:34):
Having that curiosity around the pain and then
listening to her again,listening to the body, to the
self.
Hayley (32:40):
Yeah.
Because I think when we getfearful, I mean, when we do get
fearful, we go into threat,right?
And when we're in a threatsystem, we're tighter, we're
more bound up.
Our nervous system is moreactivated.
So it kind of stands to reasonthat we're going to feel more
pain.
Yeah.
The body's going to be moretense.
(33:00):
I mean, if you, if you sit andhold your muscle really tightly
for a while.
It's going to hurt, right?
Nichi (33:06):
Yeah,
Hayley (33:07):
if we can actually regulate the nervous system,
bring in some more soothing, bemore mindful, you never know.
Maybe, maybe people listeningcould experiment with that and
see what happens for them.
Nichi (33:24):
I think that would be a really good experiment for the
people that are listening, thatwe can change the experience
within our body when we'rechanging our body.
the relationship with ourselfand with the nervous system.
Now, how do you think youmaintain this sense of greatness
(33:47):
and continue to grow in yourlife and your career?
Hayley (33:51):
That for me is an ongoing daily practice.
I didn't just learn about beingcompassionate and then Go.
Okay.
Well, I know that now.
So we're done.
Um, and when we think aboutcompassion as well, we need to
remember there's three flows ofcompassion.
So I've talked a lot about selfcompassion, but there's also the
compassion that we showoutwards.
(34:12):
And I think many people, and inmy experience, many people who
end up with these invisibleillnesses are tend to be very
compassionate and giving people.
So compassion to others doesn'ttend to be, uh, an issue.
And we've talked a lot aboutself compassion and that can be
really hard for people.
And again, it's a practice andover time it will get easier,
but there's also receivingcompassion from others.
(34:35):
And that as well, I found to bea really important piece.
I had had an experience again,I'd gone over to New York.
Um, And I was presenting acompassion retreat in New York
and I was like, I've got thiscompassion thing down pat.
(34:56):
I know what I'm doing.
And we went to the hosts housefor dinner the night before and
I tripped on the step and Ireally badly hurt my ankle and I
was laying on the floor in a lotof pain.
And of course it's compassionretreat.
So all the presenters were thesepeople who are experts in
compassion and they came runningtowards me trying to help.
(35:19):
And I really felt quite shockedbecause, and I won't swear on
here, but I swore in my mind, Ihad this thing, I wish they'd
all just, and leave me alone,but I had this real fear
response that people wereactually being compassionate to
me.
And it was a real shock.
And then I ended up on crutches.
So throughout the retreat, Iactually presented with my foot
(35:40):
up on a chair, which was quitefunny because I was talking
about self care and I was kindof modeling how to take care of
yourself.
But throughout that people hadto get me my lunch.
They had to help me downstairs.
They had to do all these thingsfor me.
That was a really growth periodfor me in receiving compassion
from others.
And it made me realize howimportant it is.
(36:03):
Particularly for those of us whostart with, I'm good.
I can do everything myself.
I'm fine.
I don't need anyone's help.
We do.
We do need other people's help,particularly when we're living
with things like chronicillness, invisible illnesses.
So it's not just aboutcompassion to self, but it's
also thinking about, What is myrelationship with receiving
(36:26):
compassion from other people?
And if that brings up adiscomfort, can you actually be
with that discomfort so that youcan receive this gift of
compassion that will ultimatelyreally support you?
Nichi (36:40):
And I think that's a huge one.
I think a lot of people strugglewith being open to receiving and
that can just create theseblocks in our life.
And then we don't see thesethings happening that we're
wanting to happen and we wonderwhy, but yeah.
Opening up to be able to receivethat compassion, that love, um,
(37:00):
success, health and well being,all the things you're wanting to
receive in your life, that'sthat inner work.
Hayley (37:06):
Absolutely.
So for me, it was, it was, andis an ongoing practice
Nichi (37:13):
Yep.
Hayley (37:14):
of checking in.
But also I guess from the, whenyou're talking about the kind of
greatness and the success piecethat for me is also about.
Kind of asking myself, okay, sowhat next?
Like, what, what do I want todo?
And that isn't necessarily like,you know, there's a lot of talk
out there of like build a sixand seven figure business and,
you know, become amultimillionaire and all this, I
(37:37):
think it's really important.
We think about what our ownmeaning of success is.
And some of that for me ishaving a business that is
flexible enough that I get todrop things and go and attend to
friends that need me or spendtime with my son, or I'm very
fortunate enough to have justmoved up to the beach.
to be able to start my day laterso I can go for a walk on the
(37:59):
beach and enjoy this beautifulcountry that we live in.
So for me, it is that sort oflike, okay, so what do I want
next?
What is that next step?
What do I want for future Haley?
Um, and a big one at the moment,because I am trying to kind of
get fitter and, and what haveyou, is I keep thinking about my
(38:20):
80 year old self, And think,okay, well maybe I don't want to
get off the couch right nowcause I want to watch Netflix,
but what does my 80 year oldself want me to do?
Because I, I really want to dothe best by her because I want
her to be rocking it at 80 andhaving a great life and being
mobile and having fun.
So that that's something that'sbeen coming up for me a lot in
(38:43):
more recent times.
Nichi (38:45):
Oh, I really like that.
And I think that's somethingelse the audience can do, too,
is try and think what wouldtheir 80 year old self want for
them right now?
You know, what?
What can they do for their 80year old self?
Oh, I like it.
So, what advice would you giveothers who might have similar
challenges or experienceinvisibility, whether it's due
(39:08):
to their condition or theircircumstances?
Hayley (39:11):
I think the first one, and you'll know this from me, is
go gently with yourself.
You know, I think givingourselves space and grace and
compassion is really, reallyimportant.
This isn't a race.
You don't need to race to beable to do all the things.
And I think as well is not to,or to try not to, compare
(39:37):
yourself to other people.
And I think it'd be really easyto be like, yeah, but everyone
else can do that.
Or this person can do that.
Well, maybe they're not livingwith an invisible illness.
Maybe they don't have thechallenges that you have.
So if we can actually thinkabout what is it I want for
myself today, not, I should bedoing what everyone else is
(40:00):
doing, or somehow I need to bemeeting some expectation of
others.
I think that's an important one.
And also if you can be willingto be vulnerable with, even if
it's just one person, but one ortwo people in your life that you
can be really authentic andhonest with about how you're
(40:22):
feeling and not, not masking howyou're feeling all the time.
Because I know for many of uswho live with invisible
illnesses, it can feel easier.
And at times it is easier tojust say to people, yeah, no,
I'm good.
Thanks.
And we don't want to be always.
Talking about, Oh, actually apain in my left shoulder.
It's not been so great.
We don't always want to be doingthat, but I think if we're
(40:43):
masking it all the time, again,that becomes exhausting.
I think it keeps us quite tense.
So go gently with yourselves.
Try not to compare yourself withothers.
Have at least one or two peoplein your life that you can be
authentic and vulnerable with.
(41:03):
And, um, if you, if you haven'ta practice of self compassion,
then this would be my invitationfor you to try that at least one
small step, even if it was, youknow, what would I say to my
best friend if they weresuffering the way I am because
(41:24):
I'm sure it will be different tothe way people are perhaps
talking to themselves.
Nichi (41:29):
absolutely, and that's so important for everybody.
Now, is there any um, stepspeople could start taking that
might be easy, that they couldjust easily start implementing
in their life, like today?
Hayley (41:50):
I think the, the couple of things for me, I would
suggest that a simple breathingtechnique.
Now in, in compassion focusedtherapy, we talk about soothing
rhythm breathing, and that isliterally an equal in and out
breath.
Ideally four or five Breathingin for four or five on the in
(42:10):
breath and four or five on theout breath.
And you could do that for tenbreaths or you could do that for
ten minutes.
You know, you could do it fortwo breaths, like start small.
Two breaths, two nice, slow,deep breaths is better than
nothing.
Not doing that at all.
And just shallow breathing.
So starting to find a breathingtechnique comfortable.
(42:36):
There's so many, so manydifferent ways you can regulate
your nervous system with breath.
So find the one that suits you.
I love soothing rhythmbreathing.
Um, the other thing is theycould set their alarm for
Partway through the day or moretimes if that's suited.
(42:56):
And when the alarm goes off,just slow down for a moment,
perhaps put your hand on yourheart and just check in with
yourself.
Hey Hayley, how are you goingright now?
Is there anything you need?
And just listen and see whatshows up.
And if it's, I'm actually alittle bit thirsty, I could do
with a glass of water.
Well then go get yourself aglass of water.
(43:17):
If it's, I'm actually quitetired, I think I need to sit
down.
then do that.
If it's actually, I feel like Ineed to move my body, but I
don't know how, then just gentlymove your body.
So that for me would be thatlike, they don't cost anything.
They're completely free.
Your, your lungs go everywhereyou do.
So you can breathe wherever youare and it's really recommended.
Nichi (43:39):
Yep.
Hayley (43:39):
And the checking in with yourself again, you can do it
anywhere.
You'd have to speak it out loud.
It's free.
So for me, there, there are twothings that anybody can access.
Nichi (43:52):
It's just a simple, beautiful way to start checking
in with self.
And just leaning in andlistening.
Yeah,
Hayley (43:59):
I will just say, cause I just said anyone can access.
I will just say with the breathwork, obviously people who have
COPD or any other breathingdifficulties, they may find that
difficult.
So adjust this according to whatworks.
Or find something alternative tobreathing.
It could be that you just sitand just stroke your arm and we
(44:19):
know skin on skin contact isreally good.
You might just kind of, youknow, gently stroke down your
arms instead if breathing issomething that feels tricky.
And also for people who've got atrauma history, doing that kind
of internal tuning in can behard.
So again, um, yeah, Keeping itexternal.
And even with the internal checkin, if that feels too much, it
(44:41):
might be, okay, my alarm goesoff.
If I was talking to my bestfriend right now and they were
struggling, what might it bethey need?
And then listen because it'sactually going to be your wisdom
that shows up anyway.
But it's just avoids you havingto turn in internally if that's
actually something that'striggering for you.
(45:02):
Yeah.
Nichi (45:04):
activated.
There's other ways around it.
So Hayley, where can ourlisteners connect with you or
learn more about your work andyour story?
Hayley (45:15):
Okay.
So I am on all the socials.
I tend to be on Instagram themost.
I, also have a podcast, as youmentioned at the beginning.
Welcome to Self with Dr.
Hayley D.
Quinn.
And that's aimed mainly atbusiness owners, but we, the big
focus of the podcast is selfcare, self compassion and
sustainable ways of working.
So I think I've had people whoare not business owners tell me
(45:38):
that actually the episodes arehelpful anyway.
So mainly Instagram, Facebook,LinkedIn, and a podcast really,
or my website.
Nichi (45:49):
That sounds fantastic.
Thank you so much Hayley forjoining us today, sharing your
inspiring story and all thosewonderful tips and information.
You've shared so much wonderfulstuff with us today and it's
been such a pleasure having you.
Hayley (46:06):
Oh, thank you so much for inviting me on.
It's an absolute pleasure andI'm excited for for you and the
future of your podcast.
I think it's great.
Nichi (46:14):
Thank you and we'll talk again soon.
Thank you for listening to thesustainable success series.
Our content is general in natureand does not replace the advice
from your health professional.
Please subscribe to our show andfollow us on social media.
To stay up to date andconnected.
Welcome to the sustainablesuccess series.
The podcast where my mission isto transform the worlds of those
living with invisibleconditions.
Supporting them to become theirbiggest advocates, begin to heal
and make sustainable changes toget back.
Being too busy, living.
We explore sustainable successin health relationships in
business, we raise awareness andwe share humble and relatable
(00:24):
stories from people just likeyou.
Driven visionary people whodream of more for their life
without sacrificing their healthor happiness.
Or being stuck behind thoseinvisible chains.
Plus the insights knowledge, andknow-how from those in the
field.
I'm your host, Nikki Morin.
I've been through the trenchesmyself through trauma, adversity
(00:44):
and invisible conditions.
I've combined.
My lived experience, mylearnings and my diverse
knowledge as a clinicalpsychologist.
Sustainable success, coach,author, rural business woman,
and entrepreneur to transform mylife.
My vision is to inspire a globalmovement for a world where
invisible conditions areunderstood, accepted and met
(01:05):
with sustainable solutions,impairing people to live with
energy, purpose, andfulfillment.
And I do this through themillion seen movement.
Join me and be inspired.
Be curious in become excited.
This is the sustainable success.
Nichi (01:24):
Welcome everybody.
I'm your host, Nikki Moran.
Today we have Dr.
Haley Quinn joining us.
So I'm very excited to introduceDr.
Haley Quinn.
Haley is a clinical psychologistturned anti burnout business
coach and the founder of Welcometo Self and hosts the Welcome to
Self with Dr.
Haley Quinn podcast.
(01:44):
Haley works with service basedbusiness owners, transforming
their relationship withthemselves and their business.
Having experienced burnout andchronic illness while studying,
working, and solo parenting,Hayley learned to live a
fulfilling life withoutcompromising well being.
She's passionate about helpingothers achieve their business
goals in a way that prioritizessustainable practices, self
(02:09):
care, and self compassion, sothey achieve the outcomes they
want without burning out.
She knows if you thrive, yourbusiness can too.
So welcome Dr.
Hayley Quinn.
So we'll just start.
Can you tell us a little bitabout yourself and what led you
to the path you're on today?
Hayley (02:31):
yeah, well, a bit of a bit of a windy road for me.
I dropped out of school or leftschool.
I used to call myself a schooldropout, but it's not very
compassionate.
Um, I left school very early andthen came back to study later on
in life.
And did a bachelor of psychologyand honors and then went on to
do a clinical PhD all the whileparenting on my own my, uh, my
(02:56):
son, who I think was about threewhen I first started my
studying.
And, um, so I was, I've been aclinical psychologist for many
years now and.
In more recent years kind ofmoved my work into the coaching
space rather than just doingpsychology.
Nichi (03:14):
It sounds like you were very high achieving and achieved
a lot of things in that careerleading up to being a
psychologist, um, doing a PhDalso.
And, but I understand thatthings haven't always been easy.
Do you think there was a time ora specific challenge?
that you've faced in your life.
Hayley (03:36):
Oh yeah.
Plenty.
But I guess the biggest thingfor me in terms of kind of
pivoting or evolving my careerwas the process of kind of
studying solo parenting.
Whilst I was studying, I wasworking a lot of jobs.
I didn't realize at the time Ihad underlying health condition.
(03:57):
And I ended up having a reallysignificant period of burnout
and then being diagnosed withchronic illness.
So I had worked really hard tobecome a psychologist and kind
of built up my um, caseload ofclients and was working in that
space, but had to actually leavewhere I was working because it
got to the point that I reallycouldn't do much at all.
(04:20):
Like at one point there, I couldbarely even get a wash into the
washing machine without beingreally, really exhausted.
So that really changed thingsfor me is sort of finding out
that I was extremely burnt out,but also had these underlying
health conditions that I didn'trealize I had.
Nichi (04:36):
So you've, after all that hard work and study and building
up your practice, you foundyourself with chronic illnesses
and burnt out.
And it sounds like it was quitehard to even do some of the
simple tasks at home.
In what other ways do you thinkthat this impacted you
personally and professionally?
Hayley (04:58):
Oh gosh, in so many ways, and I think this is the
case for many, many people, isit's not just your, your health.
I think one, it really canimpact your mental health, but
it also impacts yourrelationships and the sort of
activities that you're doing.
And, you know, friends wereinviting me to go to things that
I normally would have said yesto.
(05:20):
And over time, I would just haveto keep saying no because I
didn't have any energy.
My relationship, um, by thistime I had remarried, um,
thankfully to a very, verysupportive husband.
And.
That changed the relationship Ihad with him as well, not in a
particularly bad way, but in theway that I had to really kind of
(05:43):
lean on him and depend on himfor a lot of things because I
couldn't do, I couldn't beworking and doing the things I
needed to do at home.
So he was really taking on allof the kind of household tasks
as well, which for me, I hadalways been a very independent
woman.
Um, I.
(06:03):
Found it hard to ask for help.
So that was a huge learning forme going through that process.
Cause I had no choice but to askfor help.
And there were many times whereI really felt like a burden and
it, and it really did start toget me down.
You know, when I look back andreflect, there was times when I
felt really, really low becauseof the impact that it was having
(06:23):
across all domains.
I didn't know if I was going tobe able to keep working as a
psychologist.
Um, I wasn't seeing my friendsas much.
I wasn't, I wasn't leaving thehouse very much at the worst of
my illness.
I was depending so much on myhusband.
So yeah, I really wasn't feelinggreat and I was becoming very,
very self critical.
Absolutely.
Nichi (06:43):
Wow, so what you're saying is becoming burnt out and
exhausted and the chronicillness is developing, it seemed
to impact every aspect of yourlife, whether it's in work, out
of work, your relationships, andthat is something that was new
to you and something that wouldhave been quite defeating in a
(07:04):
way.
And it's, it's something thatyou often hear with a lot of,
um, health professionals or, youknow, women that are out there
being really busy and puttingeveryone else's needs first.
And then often the health comeslast.
That's something where I've beenas well.
Hayley (07:22):
And I think throughout my life, I've had challenges of
varying degrees, you know,throughout my life and I'd
always just got through stuffpretty much on my own.
And it was at this point that Irealized that actually I
couldn't do this on my own.
And, you know, when I look backand reflect now, it was, you
know, It was actually one of thebiggest gifts I could have been
(07:43):
given because I had so muchpersonal growth and the
relationship, not only withother people, but my
relationship with myself reallychanged through that, which I'm
very, very grateful for.
Nichi (07:55):
So would you say Hayley that that may have been a
turning point, like even despitegoing through all these lows and
these struggles, was that sortof a turning point for you do
you think?
Hayley (08:06):
I have a very specific point that I remember for me.
Um, I was still working veryminimally when I could, and I
was going to trainings in myrole as a psychologist.
And one of the frameworks that Ilearned in, in my career as a
psychologist is compassionfocused therapy.
(08:28):
And I happened to be at atraining down in Byron Bay that,
uh, Dr.
Dennis Tursh was running.
And, He asked if somebody wantedto volunteer to do a role play
or a real play.
So in a role play, you know, we,we may act as if we're somebody
else, but in the real play, it'slike, okay, bring a situation of
(08:49):
your own to the table and we'llwork with that.
And I put my hands up and Iwanted to use this aspect of my
health and In CFT we use chairwork where we'll kind of put
multiple versions of selves indifferent chairs.
So I'd volunteered for that andI, it was literally in one chair
was kind of my anxious self inanother chair was myself critic
(09:13):
and there was kind of thisconversation going on between
these two selves of, you know,My critic tell me how useless I
was and what a burden and that,you know, nobody wanted to hang
out with me anymore anyway,cause we're always sick and
turned down invitations and allthat kind of stuff that comes up
for us.
I think when we've got chronicillness.
And then I was in the chair ofthe compassionate self and it
(09:36):
was a really, really profoundmoment for me because I
connected with thiscompassionate part of myself and
it was, I can, even when I thinkabout it now, it always brings
up a lot of emotion because Ireally do think that that was
the day that my life really,really changed.
And it was like this inner voicethat just said to me, you are
(09:57):
enough.
No matter what you are doing orwhat you are not doing or
whether you are well or whetheryou are not well, you are enough
and you are valuable and you arelovable.
And then I just had this thingof like, Oh my gosh, like
welcome to self.
It was like, I had met myselfproperly.
(10:18):
For the first time, and it wasthat profound for me that I
actually went on and named mybusiness.
Welcome to self.
Um, I, I went on a journey ofreally changing the relationship
that I had with myself throughthe lens of compassion,
following that.
And that for me was a huge shiftin how I viewed my life with
(10:43):
chronic illness, how I viewedmyself with chronic illness and
what I chose, chose to do fromthere, really.
Nichi (10:52):
That sounds absolutely amazing and it gave me
goosebumps just at the thoughtof it.
When you're explaining you hadthat huge big shift within
yourself and you could just havethat compassion for yourself,
um, and feel that you arelovable and you know you are
valuable and all those thingsand like that's just amazing and
(11:13):
your perspectives changed.
on how you were viewingyourself.
Hayley (11:17):
Absolutely.
Nobody, nobody chooses chronicillness.
Nobody chooses these invisibleillnesses.
Like we, we don't set out andthink, Oh, when I grow up, I
hope I can't do much.
Um, you know, I hope I strugglewith lots of things.
I mean, nobody thinks thatnobody chooses this.
This is something that happensin our lives.
And I think it's so importantthat we give ourselves the space
(11:40):
and grace and compassion to beable to manage it.
Because I think, you know, forme, the self criticism was
impacting my nervous system in away that was, compounding what I
was dealing with and making mypain worse and making my fatigue
worse and you know, just makingeverything worse really.
Nichi (12:04):
Absolutely, and I think you have just fully hit the nail
on the head.
It's like being hit by a buswhen one of these chronic
illnesses decides to takeresidence in your body.
It affects every part of yourlife and sometimes self
compassion goes and we can labelourselves and talk to ourselves
(12:25):
in such a criticising way, andthe impact that that has on the
nervous system.
is absolutely huge.
So I think everything you havejust said is absolutely so true
for people that do have theseinvisible conditions.
So after you had that absolutelyhuge shift what steps did you
(12:46):
take to try and overcome thechallenges that you faced?
Hayley (12:50):
Look, I think some of that was the sort of mindset
work of looking at, you know,what is it that I can do rather
than always thinking about whatcan't I do.
Um, Thinking about the thingsthat my body does for me rather
than, you know, why can't I dothis?
And why am I, you know, why ismy body letting me down here,
(13:11):
there and everywhere?
So I, I kind of really would.
I guess I have a gratitudepractice for, for my body,
despite her having thesechallenges, there's so much that
she does for me.
So that there was a gratitudepractice.
One of the things I did, andit's not necessarily going to be
something I'm not certainly nothere to give advice around these
kinds of things, but one of thethings I did was I changed to a
(13:33):
plant based diet and that hadbeen a very intuitive process
for me.
I'd started to cut out thingsthat I guess I was starting to
really tune in more andlistening to myself and I had
already started cutting lots ofthings out of my diet that I
knew would just, after I'd eatenthem, I would feel either very,
very fatigued or I'd notice aflare up in my pain.
(13:56):
I, I went on, um, I went to see,I think she was a nutritionist
and, I went changed to a plantbased diet for the, for the
first little while it was quitestrict.
Um, but the improvement in mypain and stuff was phenomenal.
Again, I kind of prefaced allthis with, um, that's, I did
(14:19):
this with other healthprofessionals.
I didn't do this stuff on myown.
So that for me has been And Iknow that if I, um, like
recently we've been moving houseand we've been busy, so we
haven't been eating perhaps aswell as we would like to
normally eat.
And I do notice an increase ininflammation and pain in my body
(14:39):
when that happens.
So I'm more tuned into it now.
And sometimes I just go, well,you know what, this is how it is
for the next couple of weeks.
Cause there's a lot going on.
Um, But generally I do try andbe mindful around the sort of
foods that I know are impactfulfor me.
I try and do exercise thatmatches where I'm at.
(15:02):
Um, at first I would be like,Oh, I need to be going walking
for this long all the time andblah, blah, blah.
And the things.
Now I realize, It's meetingmyself where I'm at every day,
or even in the afternoon, mightfeel different to the morning,
like just before coming on herewith you, you know, we have just
been in the moving process.
I just went and had a littlerest, a bit of a nap on the
(15:24):
couch, because that's what mybody was telling me I needed.
So, you know, Those are kind ofthe main things apart from then
the practice of compassion thatthat is an everyday ongoing
practice for me.
Um, really tuning in, checkingin with myself, offering myself
(15:45):
compassion, reminding myselfthat I didn't choose this and
it's okay to be however I am.
And I think when we can tune inand listen to ourselves, we can
kind of ask that question ofwhat is it that I need right
now?
And that could be different dayto day, week to week, hour to
hour.
Um, but then you can offer thatto yourself.
(16:07):
You know, if we're sensitive toour own suffering, we can
actually have that motivation toalleviate or prevent that
suffering.
Nichi (16:15):
I love all of those words, all, everything you've
just said.
And leaning in to listen toyourself, it sounds like that is
something you become reallyfamiliar with and doing regular
is listening to, I like how youcalled her she, what she was
needing and what she was tellingyou and you were listening and
(16:36):
being compassionate and givingher what she needed.
Hayley (16:38):
Yeah.
That's, that's been a gamechanger for me.
I think if anybody was, wouldask me what is the biggest thing
you've done differently that'schanged your life the most, it
would be allowing myself to slowdown.
Tune in, ask myself how I am andwhat I need, and then respond
(17:01):
with space and grace andcompassion.
Nichi (17:05):
Oh, that's amazing.
I think I need to start yourjourney with your welcome to
self.
It sounds so good.
Um, and I really like too howyou mentioned, you would try and
focus on the functionality.
So instead of being angry atyour body or because of what was
(17:28):
going on, it's like, well,you're being grateful for what
she could do.
Hayley (17:32):
Yeah, yeah.
I wrote, um, I'd gone, because Iliterally went from not being
able to barely get off the couchsome days or get out of bed.
Or if I did go for a walk, Imight go for a walk or two, you
know, a small walk for a coupleof days, and then I could spend
three days in bed.
And my husband would have to doeverything.
And when things got better forme, and it certainly wasn't an
(17:54):
overnight thing, although someof it did happen within a matter
of weeks, like there was somechanges that were really
profound for me.
Um, I then ended up, you know, Iwent over and presented at a
compassion retreat in New York.
I went over to a conference inLondon and I would have these
moments of like.
Wow.
I didn't even know if I wasgoing to be able to keep on
working.
And now I have this career thattakes me around the world, doing
(18:17):
different things and evolving mybusiness into something I want
it to be.
And, you know, tomorrow, nextweek, I'm off to a business
retreat in Bali.
I mean, you know, I, I've never,I'd lost a lot of hope.
I'd lost a lot of hope.
And I think what happens is wecan end up in a really, really
dark place and it's hard then tobe grateful.
(18:39):
And it's hard then to see what'shappening.
But for me, it was a practice,an intentional practice of how
am I going to see thisdifferently?
How am I going to do what I canand then be grateful for that?
And I had been to, um, I think Iwas, I've been to a trip to
(19:01):
Canberra and on the way home, Iwrote a, um, meditation around
my body and being grateful.
And it was that sort of stuffof, I need to change how I see
this and what it means for me.
And rather than chronic illnessbeing this thing that is ruining
(19:27):
my life, because I certainlyfelt like that at some point, it
was like, well, this is justruining my life.
I mean, this is rubbish.
What am I going to do?
This is awful.
It became what is the best lifeI can live with chronic illness.
And that really made adifference.
Like I don't, I don't see myselfso much now as somebody with a
(19:50):
chronic illness.
That's something that I have todo some management of, you know,
if I didn't take care of myself,well, I imagine that I probably
would end up in a place whereI'm not so healthy again, but
it's not this, it doesn't havethe same kind of what, what like
(20:14):
level of identity for me.
If that makes
Nichi (20:17):
Yeah.
Oh that does make sense.
So what's the best life I canlive despite the chronic
illness?
That's a really good question.
A really great question forpeople to ask themselves because
it is so easy just to be pulleddown and feel like there's no
hope and, and just be defined oryour whole functioning limited.
Hayley (20:40):
yeah, absolutely.
And I would like to say as well,um, because I don't want that to
sound invalidating or minimisethe suffering that people are
under.
it's awful! You know, there'saspects of this that are awful.
And if you are feeling in areally dark place and if you are
(21:00):
kind of, you know, we have abuilt in negativity bias as
well.
So our brains are designed tofind all the crappy things,
aren't they?
Um, and if you are in this placewhere all you can see is the
darkness, That makes sense.
You know, it makes sense that,you know, you feel down, that it
can feel hopeless.
So I don't in any way want toinvalidate somebody's suffering
(21:23):
or minimize how difficult it isto live with chronic illness.
I know for me, part of mymotivation, now I am well.
And I can do all these thingsand I've evolved my business to
a business that I can engage inand have fun and really love.
And I'm very grateful for thelife I've got.
I'm also very motivated to takecare of myself because I don't
(21:44):
ever want to go back there.
So, you know, I get that it's,it can be a really, really hard
time.
Nichi (21:52):
Absolutely, I think it can definitely be some of the
most isolating and the, thedarkest times when your health
is impacted.
And I think that reallyreinforces why it's so important
to bring more support andawareness, um, for people that
are going through this.
Hayley (22:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, you know, having goodpeople on your, your health team
and your social network and allthat sort of stuff is really,
really helpful.
And, and again, I know noteverybody has great access to
all of that, but if you can,even if it's a small network of
people, I think it really,really is so very important.
Nichi (22:30):
Yes, definitely.
So as you started to have thesechanges in perspectives and you
started making this shift inyour life, How did your approach
to life and your goals change asyou started to break free from
this invisibility?
Yeah,
Hayley (22:47):
Oh, wow.
Um, how did it change?
Well, massively, I think.
Nichi (22:52):
it sounds like it.
Hayley (22:54):
Yeah, massively.
I, I think one of the thingsthat comes to mind is, I used to
think, how am I going to be ableto do anything feeling the way I
feel?
I went that change for me tothinking about what is it I want
(23:16):
to do?
What goals do I want to have?
What do I want to achieve?
Whether that's in business or inpersonal life.
And for me to be able to do thatin the best way possible, how
can I best take care of myself?
Nichi (23:31):
Yep.
Hayley (23:32):
So my goals and my aspirations and my forward
thinking and future thinking wasthe first bit.
And then it was like, and okay,based on that, how will I best
take care of myself rather than,Oh, I'm so unwell.
What am I going to do?
Is it even possible to do ABC?
(23:54):
And even now I mentioned beforeI'm off next week overseas and
already I'm like, okay, well I'mdoing that.
Absolutely.
It's going to be, I'm going tohave lots of fun.
It's going to be fantastic.
What do I need to have in place?
And one of the things for me isthis weekend is going to be a
slow one because I'm going to doplane travel and, you know,
(24:17):
foreign country, navigatingeverything and, and working
whilst I'm over there.
So this weekend will be a veryslow one for me.
I'm also going to make sure, um,and have been that I'm eating
well.
Nichi (24:34):
Yeah.
Hayley (24:35):
as well because I don't know what food I'm gonna be able
to have access to when I'm overthere and is it going to be the
best sort of food for me?
And then I'll also have a planthat often when I travel I, I
come home and I make a very bigpot of vegetable soup.
'cause my body is like, give meall the stuff So it's those, I
(24:57):
kind of think, how am I gonnafront load my self-care.
So what are the things I'm goingto do before the event or the
trip or the whatever it mightbe?
And then what am I going to dowhilst I'm there?
And then what will I do when Iget back?
So again, I've got some time offwhen I get back before I have to
start working again.
(25:17):
So, so I think about what is itI want to do?
What do I want to achieve in mylife?
What am I excited about?
And then given that I want to dothose things, what's going to be
the best way?
for me to take care of my bodyand my mind.
Nichi (25:33):
and that sounds fantastic.
It sounds like there's a lot ofawareness around intentional
planning for self care.
Hayley (25:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
Which can be tiring too.
So, you know, that can be alittle bit exhausting.
So what I do for that is I havethings, um, in my notes section
on my phone that are almost likepre former travel, um, Things
that I just have to go, okay,copy that into the new place I'm
(26:03):
going.
So I'm not thinking abouteverything from scratch.
Nichi (26:07):
Yeah.
That's a really great idea for astrategy.
Hayley (26:12):
I always think, how can you lessen the cognitive load
Nichi (26:16):
Yeah, I
Hayley (26:16):
need to do?
And if it's something you'regoing to do more than once.
Put some, some things in yournotes in your phone and then you
can just refer back to that.
Nichi (26:26):
think definitely when it comes to the self care stuff,
and particularly eating, it canbe really hard if you don't have
any pre planning or structurearound that, and you're just
choosing off the bat, thenyou're more likely to choose
those things that aren't goingto be helpful for your energy or
your fatigue or yourinflammation.
It
Hayley (26:45):
One of the things that, um, I try and do and don't
always manage, like I say, wewere moving.
Everything goes out the windowwhen you're moving.
Um,
Nichi (26:54):
does.
Hayley (26:55):
I do meal planning for the week so that I know what
we're getting.
I know what we're having.
I'll bulk cook as well.
So that I don't, that neither ofus are having to cook meals
every night, things like that,which I find really helpful.
And again, with space and grace,I mean, I'm not always going to
do it.
Sometimes we don't eat the bestfood or we, we just go, we made
(27:20):
a plan to budget for takeawaywhilst we were moving because
that actually was the kindestthing to do for ourselves and
would minimize food waste.
Because if we bought groceries,we probably weren't going to
have time and they'd end up inthe bin anyway.
So
Nichi (27:34):
Yeah, exactly.
Hayley (27:35):
It's being flexible that this doesn't have to always look
a particular way.
Nichi (27:41):
Yeah, it's about being, having good enough plans, but
that you can have theflexibility.
Hayley (27:46):
Yeah.
Nichi (27:48):
So Hayley, how do you think you define greatness for
yourself?
And has that changed over time?
Hayley (27:55):
Oh gosh, absolutely.
Throughout my life, I, ifsomebody had said that to me,
even probably 10, 15 years ago,I'd have been like, well, I
don't know.
Greatness.
I know that's what other peopledo.
How would I define it now?
Greatness.
Well, for me, greatness is theability to have the best
(28:20):
possible relationship I can withmy heart, with myself, because
through having that, I reallycan step out into the best
possible life that I'm evergoing to have.
And I'm, I've proved to myselffrom, you know, being a young
person who.
was very self neglectful, had noreal relationship with myself
(28:41):
was except a very harsh one andreally didn't care much about
what my work was or what I wasdoing as long as earning some
money, who cares kind of thing.
Um, I didn't have aspirations ofbeing any, you know, having a
particular career to goingthrough that.
And then now.
(29:03):
thinking about what I want toput out into the world and that
the impact I want to have in theworld and things like that is so
very different.
So I think, I think it's changeda huge amount for me.
I don't know if I, I think Iforgot your question as I was
talking then.
Nichi (29:21):
you define greatness for yourself, you said about having
like that compassion foryourself and the way that you
said it, you spoke with so muchpassion and so much conviction.
Hayley (29:35):
Honestly, the, the change you can have in your life
by introducing compassion, notonly through my own experience.
I mean, obviously my experienceshows me that really strongly,
but I've worked with lots ofpeople and done this kind of
work.
And I think when we change therelationship with ourselves, we
(29:58):
change everything.
Nichi (30:00):
Yep.
Hayley (30:01):
the relationship with other people.
We change our perspective onwhat the world is like.
We change the way we can makechoices.
I work with business owners.
We can build businesses thatsuit who we are as human beings,
um, how we want things to be forour families.
I'm, I'm extremely passionateabout the work that I do.
(30:21):
I feel very, very privileged todo the work that I do.
And I know how.
Difficult life can feel and Iknow how different life can
feel.
And if I can help other peoplesee that as well, then wow, like
how lucky am I?
Nichi (30:41):
It sounds like this.
Being, having that compassionfor yourself can just open so
many doors in your life, cantake you so many places that may
not have been possible if youdidn't have that in place.
Hayley (30:55):
I think so because I think we can be so harsh and for
lots of reasons.
It can be your early life stuff.
It can be the way society iswith us.
It can be for so many reasons,but I think we can be so harsh
with ourselves.
We can be so disconnected fromourselves.
We can have so much fear ofjudgment from other people and
(31:15):
so much self doubt.
And in my experience, when wechange this relationship with
ourselves and when we are morecompassionate, it's not to say
we don't have fear and doubt andall those things, but it almost
gives us an armor or something.
It's like you've got thiscompassionate part of you that
is alongside you, coaching youand cheering you on and sharing
(31:39):
wisdom and saying, Oh, maybedon't go down that way.
Come over this way.
It might be a little bit morehelpful.
Um, I do think it makes amassive change.
Nichi (31:49):
Yes, your own armour and your own cheer squad right there
with you all the time.
Hayley (31:53):
Yeah, and one of the things for me in terms of
because I still have periodswhere I have quite significant
pain when I Have this more openmore mindful more curious
Approach to what's happening andI connect with my compassionate
(32:16):
self So I know that I'm actuallygoing to take care of myself
through it I actually find thatI don't suffer the pain as much
Like when I surrender to it andget more curious, like that's
been my experience that that canreally, really help.
Nichi (32:34):
Having that curiosity around the pain and then
listening to her again,listening to the body, to the
self.
Hayley (32:40):
Yeah.
Because I think when we getfearful, I mean, when we do get
fearful, we go into threat,right?
And when we're in a threatsystem, we're tighter, we're
more bound up.
Our nervous system is moreactivated.
So it kind of stands to reasonthat we're going to feel more
pain.
Yeah.
The body's going to be moretense.
(33:00):
I mean, if you, if you sit andhold your muscle really tightly
for a while.
It's going to hurt, right?
Nichi (33:06):
Yeah,
Hayley (33:07):
if we can actually regulate the nervous system,
bring in some more soothing, bemore mindful, you never know.
Maybe, maybe people listeningcould experiment with that and
see what happens for them.
Nichi (33:24):
I think that would be a really good experiment for the
people that are listening, thatwe can change the experience
within our body when we'rechanging our body.
the relationship with ourselfand with the nervous system.
Now, how do you think youmaintain this sense of greatness
(33:47):
and continue to grow in yourlife and your career?
Hayley (33:51):
That for me is an ongoing daily practice.
I didn't just learn about beingcompassionate and then Go.
Okay.
Well, I know that now.
So we're done.
Um, and when we think aboutcompassion as well, we need to
remember there's three flows ofcompassion.
So I've talked a lot about selfcompassion, but there's also the
compassion that we showoutwards.
(34:12):
And I think many people, and inmy experience, many people who
end up with these invisibleillnesses are tend to be very
compassionate and giving people.
So compassion to others doesn'ttend to be, uh, an issue.
And we've talked a lot aboutself compassion and that can be
really hard for people.
And again, it's a practice andover time it will get easier,
but there's also receivingcompassion from others.
(34:35):
And that as well, I found to bea really important piece.
I had had an experience again,I'd gone over to New York.
Um, And I was presenting acompassion retreat in New York
and I was like, I've got thiscompassion thing down pat.
(34:56):
I know what I'm doing.
And we went to the hosts housefor dinner the night before and
I tripped on the step and Ireally badly hurt my ankle and I
was laying on the floor in a lotof pain.
And of course it's compassionretreat.
So all the presenters were thesepeople who are experts in
compassion and they came runningtowards me trying to help.
(35:19):
And I really felt quite shockedbecause, and I won't swear on
here, but I swore in my mind, Ihad this thing, I wish they'd
all just, and leave me alone,but I had this real fear
response that people wereactually being compassionate to
me.
And it was a real shock.
And then I ended up on crutches.
So throughout the retreat, Iactually presented with my foot
(35:40):
up on a chair, which was quitefunny because I was talking
about self care and I was kindof modeling how to take care of
yourself.
But throughout that people hadto get me my lunch.
They had to help me downstairs.
They had to do all these thingsfor me.
That was a really growth periodfor me in receiving compassion
from others.
And it made me realize howimportant it is.
(36:03):
Particularly for those of us whostart with, I'm good.
I can do everything myself.
I'm fine.
I don't need anyone's help.
We do.
We do need other people's help,particularly when we're living
with things like chronicillness, invisible illnesses.
So it's not just aboutcompassion to self, but it's
also thinking about, What is myrelationship with receiving
(36:26):
compassion from other people?
And if that brings up adiscomfort, can you actually be
with that discomfort so that youcan receive this gift of
compassion that will ultimatelyreally support you?
Nichi (36:40):
And I think that's a huge one.
I think a lot of people strugglewith being open to receiving and
that can just create theseblocks in our life.
And then we don't see thesethings happening that we're
wanting to happen and we wonderwhy, but yeah.
Opening up to be able to receivethat compassion, that love, um,
(37:00):
success, health and well being,all the things you're wanting to
receive in your life, that'sthat inner work.
Hayley (37:06):
Absolutely.
So for me, it was, it was, andis an ongoing practice
Nichi (37:13):
Yep.
Hayley (37:14):
of checking in.
But also I guess from the, whenyou're talking about the kind of
greatness and the success piecethat for me is also about.
Kind of asking myself, okay, sowhat next?
Like, what, what do I want todo?
And that isn't necessarily like,you know, there's a lot of talk
out there of like build a sixand seven figure business and,
you know, become amultimillionaire and all this, I
(37:37):
think it's really important.
We think about what our ownmeaning of success is.
And some of that for me ishaving a business that is
flexible enough that I get todrop things and go and attend to
friends that need me or spendtime with my son, or I'm very
fortunate enough to have justmoved up to the beach.
to be able to start my day laterso I can go for a walk on the
(37:59):
beach and enjoy this beautifulcountry that we live in.
So for me, it is that sort oflike, okay, so what do I want
next?
What is that next step?
What do I want for future Haley?
Um, and a big one at the moment,because I am trying to kind of
get fitter and, and what haveyou, is I keep thinking about my
(38:20):
80 year old self, And think,okay, well maybe I don't want to
get off the couch right nowcause I want to watch Netflix,
but what does my 80 year oldself want me to do?
Because I, I really want to dothe best by her because I want
her to be rocking it at 80 andhaving a great life and being
mobile and having fun.
So that that's something that'sbeen coming up for me a lot in
(38:43):
more recent times.
Nichi (38:45):
Oh, I really like that.
And I think that's somethingelse the audience can do, too,
is try and think what wouldtheir 80 year old self want for
them right now?
You know, what?
What can they do for their 80year old self?
Oh, I like it.
So, what advice would you giveothers who might have similar
challenges or experienceinvisibility, whether it's due
(39:08):
to their condition or theircircumstances?
Hayley (39:11):
I think the first one, and you'll know this from me, is
go gently with yourself.
You know, I think givingourselves space and grace and
compassion is really, reallyimportant.
This isn't a race.
You don't need to race to beable to do all the things.
And I think as well is not to,or to try not to, compare
(39:37):
yourself to other people.
And I think it'd be really easyto be like, yeah, but everyone
else can do that.
Or this person can do that.
Well, maybe they're not livingwith an invisible illness.
Maybe they don't have thechallenges that you have.
So if we can actually thinkabout what is it I want for
myself today, not, I should bedoing what everyone else is
(40:00):
doing, or somehow I need to bemeeting some expectation of
others.
I think that's an important one.
And also if you can be willingto be vulnerable with, even if
it's just one person, but one ortwo people in your life that you
can be really authentic andhonest with about how you're
(40:22):
feeling and not, not masking howyou're feeling all the time.
Because I know for many of uswho live with invisible
illnesses, it can feel easier.
And at times it is easier tojust say to people, yeah, no,
I'm good.
Thanks.
And we don't want to be always.
Talking about, Oh, actually apain in my left shoulder.
It's not been so great.
We don't always want to be doingthat, but I think if we're
(40:43):
masking it all the time, again,that becomes exhausting.
I think it keeps us quite tense.
So go gently with yourselves.
Try not to compare yourself withothers.
Have at least one or two peoplein your life that you can be
authentic and vulnerable with.
(41:03):
And, um, if you, if you haven'ta practice of self compassion,
then this would be my invitationfor you to try that at least one
small step, even if it was, youknow, what would I say to my
best friend if they weresuffering the way I am because
(41:24):
I'm sure it will be different tothe way people are perhaps
talking to themselves.
Nichi (41:29):
absolutely, and that's so important for everybody.
Now, is there any um, stepspeople could start taking that
might be easy, that they couldjust easily start implementing
in their life, like today?
Hayley (41:50):
I think the, the couple of things for me, I would
suggest that a simple breathingtechnique.
Now in, in compassion focusedtherapy, we talk about soothing
rhythm breathing, and that isliterally an equal in and out
breath.
Ideally four or five Breathingin for four or five on the in
(42:10):
breath and four or five on theout breath.
And you could do that for tenbreaths or you could do that for
ten minutes.
You know, you could do it fortwo breaths, like start small.
Two breaths, two nice, slow,deep breaths is better than
nothing.
Not doing that at all.
And just shallow breathing.
So starting to find a breathingtechnique comfortable.
(42:36):
There's so many, so manydifferent ways you can regulate
your nervous system with breath.
So find the one that suits you.
I love soothing rhythmbreathing.
Um, the other thing is theycould set their alarm for
Partway through the day or moretimes if that's suited.
(42:56):
And when the alarm goes off,just slow down for a moment,
perhaps put your hand on yourheart and just check in with
yourself.
Hey Hayley, how are you goingright now?
Is there anything you need?
And just listen and see whatshows up.
And if it's, I'm actually alittle bit thirsty, I could do
with a glass of water.
Well then go get yourself aglass of water.
(43:17):
If it's, I'm actually quitetired, I think I need to sit
down.
then do that.
If it's actually, I feel like Ineed to move my body, but I
don't know how, then just gentlymove your body.
So that for me would be thatlike, they don't cost anything.
They're completely free.
Your, your lungs go everywhereyou do.
So you can breathe wherever youare and it's really recommended.
Nichi (43:39):
Yep.
Hayley (43:39):
And the checking in with yourself again, you can do it
anywhere.
You'd have to speak it out loud.
It's free.
So for me, there, there are twothings that anybody can access.
Nichi (43:52):
It's just a simple, beautiful way to start checking
in with self.
And just leaning in andlistening.
Yeah,
Hayley (43:59):
I will just say, cause I just said anyone can access.
I will just say with the breathwork, obviously people who have
COPD or any other breathingdifficulties, they may find that
difficult.
So adjust this according to whatworks.
Or find something alternative tobreathing.
It could be that you just sitand just stroke your arm and we
(44:19):
know skin on skin contact isreally good.
You might just kind of, youknow, gently stroke down your
arms instead if breathing issomething that feels tricky.
And also for people who've got atrauma history, doing that kind
of internal tuning in can behard.
So again, um, yeah, Keeping itexternal.
And even with the internal checkin, if that feels too much, it
(44:41):
might be, okay, my alarm goesoff.
If I was talking to my bestfriend right now and they were
struggling, what might it bethey need?
And then listen because it'sactually going to be your wisdom
that shows up anyway.
But it's just avoids you havingto turn in internally if that's
actually something that'striggering for you.
(45:02):
Yeah.
Nichi (45:04):
activated.
There's other ways around it.
So Hayley, where can ourlisteners connect with you or
learn more about your work andyour story?
Hayley (45:15):
Okay.
So I am on all the socials.
I tend to be on Instagram themost.
I, also have a podcast, as youmentioned at the beginning.
Welcome to Self with Dr.
Hayley D.
Quinn.
And that's aimed mainly atbusiness owners, but we, the big
focus of the podcast is selfcare, self compassion and
sustainable ways of working.
So I think I've had people whoare not business owners tell me
(45:38):
that actually the episodes arehelpful anyway.
So mainly Instagram, Facebook,LinkedIn, and a podcast really,
or my website.
Nichi (45:49):
That sounds fantastic.
Thank you so much Hayley forjoining us today, sharing your
inspiring story and all thosewonderful tips and information.
You've shared so much wonderfulstuff with us today and it's
been such a pleasure having you.
Hayley (46:06):
Oh, thank you so much for inviting me on.
It's an absolute pleasure andI'm excited for for you and the
future of your podcast.
I think it's great.
Nichi (46:14):
Thank you and we'll talk again soon.
Thank you for listening to thesustainable success series.
Our content is general in natureand does not replace the advice
from your health professional.
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