23. Masculinity ft. Lance Gee & Eric Wu (Off the Wok)

Episode Transcript
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Angie Yu (00:00):
cool.

(00:00):
We're live.
I alright

Kristy Yee (00:03):
Okay.
Okay.
Serious time.
So we're gonna, we're gonnastart the show.
We'll talk a little bit aboutyour show and then we're going
to get right into the juicystuff.

Eric (00:11):
Listen, I can't wait for this juicy

OTW Lance (00:13):
yeah, let's go.

Angie Yu (00:40):
Yeah.
There's no warmup.
Like,

Eric (00:42):
Okay.

Angie Yu (00:43):
do you want some emotional lubricant?
Cause there is none.

Kristy Yee (00:47):
Wow.

Eric (00:47):
Whoa.

Kristy Yee (00:49):
Sometimes some lubrication is good there we do
a little bit.

Angie Yu (00:53):
Okay.
Well that's what all thelaughing was about.
We're trying to.
Get, you know, earn your trust.

Kristy Yee (00:59):
Welcome to another episode of shit.
We don't tell mom podcast wherewe like to talk about
uncomfortable shit today.
We have Eric on our show fromoff the walk podcast.

Eric (01:11):
Yo, yo yo

OTW Lance (01:13):
Hey, what's up.

Kristy Yee (01:14):
up guys?
What's up?
So Angie and I were recently ontheir podcast for a Valentine's
day special.
We did this.
What is that game called?
That drinking game.

Angie Yu (01:23):
Never

Kristy Yee (01:24):
Yes, we played, never have I ever talked a whole
bunch of shit aboutrelationships dating.
So obviously we need to have youguys on our show so we can talk
more about that shit because weneed more male perspectives and
G and I just talk about shitabout like what we know as
females, but we need to knowwhat goes on inside your heads

(01:46):
when it comes to dating and allthat

Eric (01:47):
not too much.
we'll see what we can do.

Angie Yu (01:55):
honestly, we just asked for your best.
It might not be great, but it isyour

Eric (02:00):
Gotcha.

Kristy Yee (02:01):
Angie.
It was very encouraging.

OTW Lance (02:03):
I, I just say right now, a hundred percent, you
know, we don't represent allAsian men.
So it's the stories that aregoing to come from us.
It's just, just our stories.
That's it.

Kristy Yee (02:15):
Very good asterix there at

Angie Yu (02:17):
Disclaimer, disclaimer, disclaimer.

Kristy Yee (02:19):
Why don't you guys share a little bit with our
listeners who, who you guys are,what your show is about and
something that you have notshared on your podcast.
Eric, you start first.

Eric (02:32):
Oh man.
Wait, what do I have to startwith?
Do I, do I start with what Ihave not shared yet on the
podcast?

Kristy Yee (02:40):
Tell us what your podcast is about.
See lubrication.

Eric (02:44):
Yes.
So basically yeah, off the walk,we are just two Asian Canadian
dudes and all we do is we toasttalk about our experiences
growing up and how we've got acouple of cultural influences
affecting us.
Our Eastern flips back home at,in our families versus the kind

(03:04):
of like the Western influencethat we have growing up and how
those two kind of melt togetherto form kind of who we are
today.
And so we talk about a range oftopics anywhere from.
Love to gluten-free Asian,gluten-free eating as a, as an
Asian to, to I don't know,cultural identity too.

(03:25):
I don't know.
We've got a couple of theirtopics coming up, but it's a
wide range of topics and yeah,we just, we love interviewing
people and we want to hear theirperspectives about it.
Lance, you want to add somethingon top of that or do I have it
all?

OTW Lance (03:37):
No, I think you got it down pack.
Yeah.

Eric (03:41):
And in terms of something that I haven't talked about yet?
Oh man.
I mean, there's a bunch of stuffthat we haven't talked about
yet.
Like Asians in sports that wewant to talk about one day and
you know, Asians in acting.

(04:02):
That's something that how Asianrepresentative re Asian
representative Asianrepresentation, there goes my
ESL, their Asian representationin, in like Hollywood and stuff
like that.
And, you know, there's, there'sa bunch of other topics we
haven't talked about, but thoseare some that are just popping
into my mind right now.
Lance, what about you?

OTW Lance (04:21):
I thought you supposed to say something that
you haven't told about thepodcast about yourself, about
yourself.
folks.
Sorry, folks.
He's ESL.
So you have to understand he'she's a little bit slow.

Kristy Yee (04:34):
It's been forgiven.

Eric (04:36):
I've just only been in Canada my whole life.
It's just, you know, speak inEnglish.

Kristy Yee (04:42):
Yeah.
But that, you know, East versusWest, you know, sometimes we get
mixed up.
It's very confusing times.

OTW Lance (04:48):
Yeah.
You want me to start first?
You are.

Eric (04:50):
you go first?
You go first.
I can't think of something rightnow.

OTW Lance (04:52):
Well, I don't know.
I, something that we haven'ttalked about on our podcast is
that I am recently.
Back in school.
So I recently went back toschool.
unfortunately I got let go frommy job.
So I'm unemployed and I'm goingback to school to get reeducated
and try and start a new career.

(05:13):
So, yeah, that's, I don't thinkI've said that on our show.
So definitely that's that's new.
You heard it first on shit.
We don't tell mom.
All right

Kristy Yee (05:24):
fucking exclusive.
Okay.

Eric (05:26):
Okay.
I got one down.
I have not talked about myfears.
I am very scared of water, notshowers.
I love taking showers isfantastic and all, but not a fan
of water.
So kind of like that's my don'tdon't.

Angie Yu (05:44):
deep water, like your fear of drowning.

Eric (05:49):
Yeah.
Like if I don't, if I'm notgoing to go swimming, that's not
my thing.
I mean, even like the, the, whatdo you call it?
The shallow wind.
That's, that's still kind ofiffy for me, but once I see that
water and it's flowing and Ilook at it and I'm like, Aw,
man, this, this, this is goingto go bad.
So like oceans and stuff likethat.

(06:09):
If you throw me into an ocean, Iwill scream and it's not going
to be cool.
I'll probably do a backflow andthat's all I'll do.
I'll just, that's it it's thator die basically.
It's like, I'm very scared ofwater, not showers.
I love taking showers, but likesweat swimming and stuff like
that.

Angie Yu (06:25):
Ladies.
He does love showers.

Eric (06:27):
love showers one a day, every day.

Angie Yu (06:32):
That's what, we're our podcasts about.
We love just like poking atpeople's fears

Eric (06:38):
What?
Okay.

Angie Yu (06:43):
Well, okay.
Okay.
Maybe that doesn't sound likewe're not like, I don't know.
We're not like Maury or likeJerry Springer or anything like
that, but I mean, like for thepeople who have come onto our
show to talk, they talk aboutuncomfortable things.
And the reason why people areuncomfortable about it is
because they fear that they willbe judged or they talk about,

(07:03):
you know, failure anduncertainty and all that stuff
that gives them quote, unquote,negative emotions, because it
brings us fear.
When in reality emotion isemotion.
There's no such thing as a bademotion or a good idea.

Eric (07:18):
Hell yeah.
Like I'm, I'm an open book.
I'll talk about all my fears.
I don't, I'll have to dig deepto figure out another fear, but
I'll talk about it.
It's

Angie Yu (07:27):
Why, why you think about that while you think dig
deep and find what your truefears are?
the ones that you areembarrassed to talk about, I'm
gonna.
Pivot over to Lance becauseLance, I think it's interesting
that you haven't brought up thefact that you're currently out
of a job on T on your podcast.
Is there a reason why youhaven't brought that

OTW Lance (07:49):
I'm just ashamed.
Don't make it.
Okay.
Well, you know, it's, I thinkit's a, it's a tough topic, you
know?
I was laid off, so it's not likeI did something wrong and I got
fired or something, but it's,it's like Alberta has been
pretty rough in the oilindustry.
And so there's been a lot oflayoffs.

(08:09):
but it's I don't know, sometimesI guess you feel embarrassed,
right?
Because, you know, as a man, youkind of the bread you know, the,
the person that brings home youknow, And I'm not saying that
all men, women bring it to, it'snot like my wife brings home,
but usually men, we have thisperception that, you know, we
want to be the one to bring homethe bread and butter right.

(08:30):
For our family.
So yeah, it's tough to sometimeskind of admit that and, and kind
of move forward, but I haven'ttalked about it on the show just
because I think we reallyhaven't really had an episode
about that topic you know, inparticular of jobs or anything
like that, but yeah, so I guess.

Angie Yu (08:50):
absolutely.
I mean, even from like, I'mtrying not to get too
psychoanalytical here, but like,even from the way you were
explaining yourself, you'relike, Oh, you know, it's not
that I'm saying that women don'tbring home money.
It's because you're almost likeafraid to admit that like, Hey,
this is a responsibility that Ihave, and this is a
responsibility that society hasplaced on me.

(09:10):
But in reality, that is what,you know, like toxic
masculinity.
Doesn't only affect womenaffects men too.
Right.
So.
Kind of like, you know, like,it's, it's hard for you to admit
a K like I have thisresponsibility.
Oh.
But, but I'm like, you know,everyone can earn, you know what
I mean?
Like,

OTW Lance (09:26):
Yeah.

Angie Yu (09:27):
yeah.
I'm not really articulating itvery well, but I I'm trying to
get across that.
Like, even talking about thisissue is like you don't know
what to say, because this is notsomething we talk about often.

Kristy Yee (09:40):
like, there's a sensitivity behind, not even
behind it, but like all aroundit.

OTW Lance (09:44):
Yeah.
It's, it's, it's super tough.
Like, especially like sometimesfriends or even like, I find
like with neighbors, if, if youkinda, you know, and they know
about what industry you are,like, it's a very small
industry, right.
In Alberta.
It's almost like everybody's inoil and gas.
So people hear about yourcompany and they know they've
done massive layoffs and ofcourse, they'll ask you and

(10:06):
then, you know, I'm not, I don'tlie about it.
So I tell them yes, but then itbecomes that awkwardness.
Right.
Especially if the neighbor islike a dude, he he'll be like,
all right.
Like, you know, you know, itwould just be like a little bit
of silence.
Like, you know, don't worry,things will come, come by right.
Or something.
But I mean, yeah.
It's, I guess it's, it's tougherfor us guys to talk about those

(10:32):
kinds of things, but I guessnow, even going back to school
is also.
Another set of obstacles formyself, right.
Just cause I'm, I'm 41.
I'm going back to school.
You know, all my friends arelike, you know, some of them are
VPs, you know, some of them aretheir own owners of their own

(10:53):
company.
And so sometimes I look atmyself like, Oh man, I'm 41.
I'm going back to school.
Like, Oh my God.
You know, it's like, so yeah.
It's, it can be something toughto talk about for sure.

Kristy Yee (11:06):
does it ever feel like.
How do I put this?
Wow.
See, you see how this is?
So like, there's like a tiptoeawkwardness about it.
So fuck this.
This is,

Eric (11:17):
Just say it,

OTW Lance (11:18):
just say yeah,

Kristy Yee (11:19):
Yeah, I know.
Do you feel like inadequacycompared to your peers and the
people around you and thenthere's shame around that?

OTW Lance (11:34):
inadequacy.
I think if I was younger, likein my thirties yeah, I think,
you know, there's a lot ofcomparison with where people are
and, and to this day I do.
And I don't I think it's justcomes with maturity that, you
know, you kind of think about,you know, you can't, you can't

(11:54):
always compare yourself.
Right?
We, we kill each other,comparing ourselves about who we
are in comparison with whereeverybody else is.
And that just ruins us.
Like we, we, we, instead ofcomparing, we have to be again
if you're gonna compare, youshould be happy about the things
you do have in life, right?
Like I've got a family, youknow, I got a loving wife, you

(12:16):
know, I got you know, I gotthree kids and I think that's
something to be proud about.
Right.
And, and that you gotta be, youknow, you gotta be proud about
it for yourself and stopcomparing with everybody else.
Right.
Because everyone's going tojudge you.
There's no doubt, right.
It doesn't matter if you're agood person, a bad person, you
know, everyone's, they're out tojudge you, but if you're gonna
keep living your life based onhow everyone's looking at you

(12:38):
it's going to be a tough life,right.
Because every day, you knowPeople are going to be looking
at you in different ways.
And it's most of the times it'syourself kind of just thinking
that people are judging you.
Right?
I think no people aren't comingbecause people aren't in your
face going you're you're, youknow, you're a degenerate, you
know, you, you don't know whatyou're doing and you lost it

(12:59):
job, you know, God, I mean, mostof the time was nothing.
They don't say that in front ofyour face.
It's yourself thinking that,right?
Like, like I'm thinking about myneighbors because there's
keeping silent or, you know, thth that awkward conversation
having in my head, I'm like, Oh,does he think I'm a loser?
Or they, you think I got fired?
Or, you know, that kind ofstuff.
But I think you got to let thatnot play in your head because if

(13:21):
you do, it's just I think itjust, it's going to get tough
for you, right?
Because it's going to be prettystressful.
If you keep thinking about whateverybody else is thinking, and
you just gotta be strong foryourself.

Eric (13:33):
Brody night, Dan thinking they don't give a shit, man.
Like you think your neighbor'sthinking about it.
He's thinking about what he'sdoing for the rest of the day.
He's like, He's like, Oh, sorry,Lance.
Yeah.
After the heat, if you just keeppeople, always keep thinking
that people are like, judge,like you're not that important
man.
Play.
They got,

Kristy Yee (13:50):
one's thinking about you.
Okay.
He's he's like, I gotta take aleak.
When are we wrapping up?

OTW Lance (13:56):
Oh, I'm crying now.
No, one's thinking about me.

Kristy Yee (14:00):
I also want to point out, like, we always think the
worst of ourselves and I thinkwe know this already.
Right.
But the example that you had,like what you had just shared
Lance you're you're like, whydid I not talk about this?
Well, because I'm ashamed.
I do people think I'm a loser.
Like, I don't want to be talkingabout this because people are
gonna think I'm a loser.

(14:20):
They're going to judge mebecause they're going to think I
got fired.
So they they'll think that I'mnot a good worker.
All of this came from you justnow, when you first told us
that, Oh, recently I went backto school and I'm going to
change my career.
My first thought is like, hotdamn good for you and Matt,
like.
That's pretty dope for you to belike, fuck this.

(14:41):
I'm I'm going to leave.
Like, I'm going to switchcareers.
I'm going to do something elseand I'm going to go to school
and I'm going to learn somethingnew so that I'm gonna, you know,
move on to another direction inmy life and open a new chapter.
I thought that was super dopeand inspirational.
But in that, that's whathappened in my head, in this
same conversation, though, acompletely different thing

(15:03):
happened in your head.

OTW Lance (15:05):
Absolutely.
That's a great analogy.
Cause I'm thinking in my head,she's just saying that right
now, they should just trying tobe nice to me.
But in fact, she's thinkinglike, man, this guy's 41 going
back to school.
What a loser.
That's not true, right?
No, I just can't.
I know, I know I'm playing withyou,

Angie Yu (15:20):
I also think that what other people think of you?
You know, as we get older, werealize that nobody gives a shit
about us except ourselves.
And I feel like when people,judge, you it's really like,
it's so cliche, but it's reallya reflection of on them.
Like for example, the reason whyChristie think.
That is because she has thatgoal for herself.

(15:42):
Right.
So I know Christie, I know thatshe wants to go back to school
for her, it's like a great nextstep for where she is in her
career.
So that when she hears someonewho's going to make, going back
to school, she only thinks aboutthat aspect because that's what
affects her.
Whereas for me, when you saidthat, I was like, Oh man.
So my perspective is differentbecause if I were to think about
it, for me to go back to schoolor it's not where I want to be

(16:04):
in my life.
So then those judgments thatyou're thinking about, it's kind
of like the judgements that Iwould place on myself as well.
So I feel like when otherpeople, if I were a bad person
and I judged you and I'm notsaying I'm a good person.
I am trying to be lessjudgmental.
but if I were to be judgmentalof, of your situation, then I

(16:26):
would come up with those stairstypes because those are the
stereotypes that I would placeon myself.

Kristy Yee (16:31):
I got it.
So it's like, if someoneactually did think that you're a
loser Lance it's because theyactually think of themselves as
a loser first.
And so they're projecting thatloser illness onto someone else,
because they're afraid that ifthey do the same thing, they're
going to feel like a loser.
Boom.
What's up.

Angie Yu (16:49):
what I was trying to

OTW Lance (16:50):
you are so dead on because I'm probably, I thought
like, if someone was to say thatto me, I probably think of all
those things that, that, that Ijust thought about myself.
So.
I'm just kidding.
I usually don't do that, butthere is some of that where you
do think of that, right.
Where you're just kinda like,you know, is this guy what
happened in his job?

(17:11):
Right.
What was going on?
Did he know what he was doinganyways?
You know, there's a lot of yourown biases that you play out in
your own head.
Right?
And so those are just your ownthoughts, but you're right.
We just, we can't always be sojudgmental about things.
And, and I think the importantthing is just for yourself not
to worry too much about, andlike you say, no one really

(17:32):
gives a crap about you, right?
I mean, you just need to give acrap about yourself and worry
that, you know, and just do yourown thing that makes sure that
look is, this is the directionthat you need to go, then just
go and do it.
Right.
And don't worry about all theexcessive noise outside of that.

Eric (18:00):
Very well said, that's all I'm

Angie Yu (18:03):
Eric's like, let me, let me get in there with a

OTW Lance (18:05):
Yeah.

Angie Yu (18:06):
contribute.
I'm just kidding.
I'm kidding.
I will point out that Eric, youhave a very mellifluous voice.

Eric (18:12):
I don't even know what that means,

Kristy Yee (18:13):
yeah, neither do I.

Angie Yu (18:16):
it's like, like a sound that's very melodic and
very pleasant to listen to.

Eric (18:21):
Just, you know, if you want, I can record some of just
me reading stuff and maybe it'llallow you to sleep at night.
So this is a bottle of Heinzingredients, water, like, I
don't know.
Yeah.

Kristy Yee (18:33):
Tomato paste.

Angie Yu (18:34):
sugar is probably the second.
Yeah.

Kristy Yee (19:10):
Oh my gosh.
Okay.
Eric had mentioned menrepresentation, Hollywood media,
shit.
You guys haven't talked aboutthat on your podcast yet.
We want to talk about that withyou guys.

Angie Yu (19:22):
Yeah, we would love to hear your perspectives.

Kristy Yee (19:24):
We want to know.
Okay.
So recently, like little bitrecently, there's a little tiny,
little bit more malerepresentation.
I feel in the media blew up fromcrazy rich Asians, fresh off the
boat, you know, kidsconvenience.
We now see Asian faces, littlebit more.

(19:45):
First of all, growing up wedidn't have that a lot.
Did you guys ever have any likecelebrity idols that you had
looked up to before?

Eric (19:53):
Denzel Washington, Tom Hanks.

OTW Lance (19:58):
Brad Pitt.

Eric (20:02):
I'll watch it.
I'll watch anything with Denzoman.
I'll watch anything with it.
Don't matter what it is.

OTW Lance (20:08):
I, I think that's true.
I think like you know, growingup when, when you think of
Asians, we don't really see awhole lot of that like there now
you're seeing like, you know,damn like, you know, these guys
are all ripped, and we wouldn'tget that like in our face.
I don't know, I'm a little bitolder, but the, the films that I
used to watch is like, you know,you're, you're a geeky nerdy

(20:30):
kind of Asian kid.
You're skinny, you know,glasses, you know, the dorky
glasses or you're the other guyyou're Bruce Lee, right?
You're you're Jackie Chanyou're, you know, Kung Fu kind
of you know, Kung Fu fighter.
You're, you're good at fighting.
Right.
And we didn't get that otherrepresentation of who we could
be.

(20:50):
you know, we could be you know,a good handsome guy.
we could be a good father.
We could be, you know, othertypes of people, you know, that,
that we don't play.
We could be a gangster, youknow, that cause we don't play
gangster rules.
Right.
you know, those kinds of things,but I think more like you were
saying more and more of that ishappening and I'm really happy

(21:10):
to see more of that kind ofrepresentation.
Right?
Like crazy rich Asian.
There's some of that playingout.
what, what other kinds of filmslike what's that other one

Eric (21:19):
Yeah, man, Steven Yeun, first Asian American nominated
for best actor.
That's fucking right.

Angie Yu (21:24):
And the movie is like, you know, he's not some, he's
not like a Henry Golding, halfnaked, you know, whatever, like
crazy rich Asian.
He's also not like Bruce Lee,Jackie Chan, he's like a regular
father.
Who's just trying to provide forhis family.
that's that's a little bit morerepresentation that's come

(21:46):
really, really, really fuckinglate,

Eric (21:48):
Yeah.
Very late.
It's about time, man.

Angie Yu (21:52):
And how does that make you feel?
Like how does that make you feelthat like, you didn't have this
growing up.

Eric (21:57):
it's it kind of sucks because like, yeah, like I said,
like when you're growing, whenI'm growing up, I'm Tom Hanks,
right?
Tens of Washington.
I didn't see, I didn't see likethe Asians in Lake, like Lance
was saying like the Asians, theythey're all like.
They're always the secondarycharacters.
They're the ones that help themain characters who is generally

(22:17):
like a strong white male lead orsomething like that.
It's it.
It's like, I'm thinking ofexamples of movies I've watch
where it's like that even wherethey're just put in there, like
even like the most recent one,you know, you guys ever seen
that, the big short, when you'retalking about, we were at that
scene, where was I?
Gosling's talking to Steve?

(22:39):
Yeah.
He's like this guy's just asmart Asian guy.
Something like that has justboomed.

Angie Yu (22:44):
this is my quad guy.
Look at him.
Look at him.
This is my quad guy.
Look at him.
And the guy's just like, ah,actually I can't speak English,

Eric (22:52):
yeah,

Angie Yu (22:53):
Do you feel like it's more authentic if I don't?

Eric (22:55):
yeah, exactly.
So like, and then yeah, like,like Lance was saying, you know,
in terms of like the Bruceleaves, the Jackie Chan's there
they're the male leads andstuff, but yeah, it's, it's all
Kung Fu stereotypestereotypical, you know, That
type of martial arts side.
Right.
So nowadays we're seeing a lotmore like I'm a big fan of John

(23:16):
Cho, you know, I've seen him inthat one movie where he's trying
to save his daughter with thecell phone in the other movie
Columbus.
I think these are good movieswith a love John show.
I would love to get them that'sI always tell Lance that's my
dream got to get onto the showto interview, but like him I
watched what was that Tigertailmovie with?

(23:36):
what's.

Angie Yu (23:37):
my God.
Yes.

Eric (23:38):
Yeah, so yes.

Angie Yu (23:41):
like the father of all Hollywood movies, like the
Chinese father of

Eric (23:45):
yeah, awesome.
You know, even always be my,maybe Randall park that guy's
funny, man.
That guy's funny as hell.
He was just a regular dude, youknow, and it was great movie, so
it's, it's good to see more.
What is other ones likeshoplifters?
there's there's like tons moreit's it's crazy how it's
exploded too.
I mean, you also get the otherside with the bling empire it's

(24:07):
representation, but in adifferent, different sense, but

Angie Yu (24:09):
it's still a type of representation.
That's

Eric (24:11):
a type of

Angie Yu (24:12):
our rep representation.

Eric (24:14):
Exactly, exactly.
So, you know, I like, I likedseeing that is what I'll say.

Kristy Yee (24:19):
I think that was the point though.
Sorry.
I think that was the point of,you know sure.
Blink empire is not somethingthat we, four of us here relate
to, but the whole point is tohave different characters so
that different Asians can relateto so that there are more career

(24:41):
opportunities that we can see usdoing.
Right.
It's not just, Oh, I'm going tobe a tiger mom, or I'm going to
do Kung Fu or I'm going to be anaccountant.
Right?
Like, those are our options on,on TV.
Now.
It's like, yo, you want, youwant to be bling empire.
You can be bling empire.
You know, you want to be CIAbecause, you know, I just

(25:01):
watched one division last nightand Randall park said, you want
to fucking, you want to be inthe CIA, you can be in this.
Like now you can see your skincolor in a CIA uniform.
You know?
So, so now it's like all theseopportunities.
There's, there's more of that.
It's like Barbie dolls, youknow, back in the days, bro,
Barbie dolls is representinglike, Oh, all of these different

(25:23):
career options that you can doas a girl, you know, it's like,
see, well, yeah.
And only if you're like thatlook like that.
That's a whole, that's a wholeother thing though.
That's a whole other thing, butbasically it's like, now we can
see, you know, I can see myselfin these as these people.

OTW Lance (25:45):
I totally, yeah.
I agree with you.
Like, I, I totally see that, youknow, back when I was younger,
we wouldn't imagine ourselvesbeing anything, but you know,
like you gotta go to school, yougotta be smart because that's
what we're portrayed to be is,is smart.
But I I'm horrible at math.
Like I suck and it's, there'sthis stereotype that, yeah, it's

(26:06):
like, we, Asians are good atmath and it's like, no, man.
And we talk about representationagain, like same thing, thinking
about like firefighters orpolice officers, you know, we
never saw any of that.
So I didn't think in my head Icould be, you know, a police
officer or a firefighter orsomething like that.
And then looking at sports.

(26:27):
Like there's, there's hardly anyrepresentation with, with
Asians, right?
It's a, it's a really, eitheryou're an African-American or
you're Caucasian, that's playingthe sport.
There's there's very little, andit was that to say that we're
not good at it, probably not,but you know, it's just, there's
not enough of it that we thinkthat, Oh, we could be a

(26:47):
basketball player or, Oh, wecould be a hockey player.
but we, we just don't see itenough.
So then you think, ah, nah, youknow, there's none of us out
there.
We're just accountants and Idon't know what else is the tip?
It's a stair to engineers orsomething, right?

Kristy Yee (27:03):
you know what I was just thinking when you were
saying all of that is a lot oftimes or previously Asian men
were not viewed as sexy.
And I think that's still a bigthing right now in media and
yes, crazy rich Asians, halfnaked.
What's his name again?

Eric (27:23):
Henry Golding.

Kristy Yee (27:24):
Yeah.
Yes.

Eric (27:25):
Yeah.

Angie Yu (27:26):
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Eric is a

Kristy Yee (27:28):
Like, you know, we're, we're flipping that
right.
Men are sexy.
Okay.
you say I counted, I'm notreally that turned on.
So I feel like there's a doublenegative here because not only
are we not portrayed.
You're like, Oh baby, pull outyour calculator.
Yeah.
Let's see them spreadsheetsyeah.
Would do it.

Angie Yu (27:47):
Like, you know, like, but, okay.
Sorry.
Back to the topic, back to thetopic.
What?
Yeah.
So if you say accountant, forsome reason, Christie doesn't
feel anything towards that.

Kristy Yee (27:59):
I personally, my heart is not throbbing when I
think of accountant and I, and,and I feel like because, you
know, first of all Asian men, wedon't get lead roles.
We've Asian men don't get leadroles often.
And that in itself means thatthey're not the, they're not the
object of desire because thelead male roles, usually the

(28:20):
object of desire or the personto be desired for.
So that's already out.
Okay.
And then second of all, when wedo get a role, it is that
typical, you know, stereotypedrole you're you are an
accountant.
You are some like funnycaricature on, Oh my gosh, I'm
losing it.
That hangover movie.
No, like, right.

(28:40):
But you're like this funny,crazy guy who jumps out naked at
the back of the trunk.
None of these, none of theseroles are sexy.

Angie Yu (28:49):
Yeah.

Kristy Yee (28:53):
to correct.
Correct

Angie Yu (28:55):
No, for sure.
Like so far, like we're all veryaware of the desexualization of
Asian men and the overtsexualization of Asian women and
people are like, Oh, like, butthe thing is both are bad, both
are bad.
it just works out a little bitbetter for us in the dating
pool, I guess, but not in a goodway,

Kristy Yee (29:15):
I don't

Angie Yu (29:16):
not to go away.
Like have you, well, I knowLance, I know you're married.
and you have kids.
Eric, I know you're dating.
what is it like for you in thedating world of being an Asian
guy?
Because Christie and I arepretty familiar with what it's
like to be an Asian girl, but.

Eric (29:36):
It's honestly, in, for Asian guys and, you know, I used
to be in the dating sphere, likewhen I was launching the date,
my dating apps and stuff likethat.
And Asian guys are bottom of thebarrel man.
Like we are boom, which is it?
Yeah.
Which is like you said, it's,it's weird.
Cause like Asian women are atthe top of the top of the chain.

(29:57):
It's kind of like, it's aninverse relationship for some
odd reason.
So yeah.
And it's, it's kind of odd howthat works out and it's for us
Asian guys, it's the same reasonwhy Asian women are so much are,
I guess, lusted after, becauseof the fact that we're shown as

(30:20):
kind of like meek or silent or,or, you know, we're not
confrontational and stuff likethat.
That's why they love the Asiangirls.
Cause they think they're like ontop of the fact that they're
exotic and you know, I don'tknow.
Fresh.
I don't even know.
I don't know what I'm talkingabout right now, but like, but
like, you know what I'm talkingabout, there's some

Angie Yu (30:41):
longer, best before date.
Okay.

Eric (30:44):
so that's why they go was for us because we have those
same traits.
It does not make us attractiveto

Angie Yu (30:52):
Oh, I see

Kristy Yee (30:54):
like the, the docile Asian girl that saw submissive
and, you know, that's superattractive because

Angie Yu (31:03):
right before men dose out men is not as what you're
saying.
Oh, so what you're saying isthat the stereotypes projected
onto Asian people in general,which is that where we don't
like to speak up, you know, ifwe're being bullied, we'll just
quiet down.
We're going to go work at ourrestaurant at our laundry

Eric (31:23):
Laundromat.
I don't know.

OTW Lance (31:24):
right.

Eric (31:25):
I was a launderer.
That's a completely differentterm right there.
Okay.

Angie Yu (31:34):
whoops.
that's a different type of crazyirritation.
Okay.
Yeah, we're just going to step,step back.
Like we don't want to make anyways.
And like, so what I'munderstanding here is that
you're saying for a woman to belike that it's attractive and
for a man to be like that it'sunattractive.
That actually makes so muchsense.
Like same thing with thestereotypes about black people
is that they're very strong andopinionated and very, they can

(31:57):
assert themselves, which youfind attractive in a male, but
unattractive in a woman by the,you know, general patriarchy

Eric (32:06):
yeah, exactly.
And you know, that's how we'vebeen represented in media for
all these years, too, right?
Like, like we were just talkingabout before, where we're always
in the back.
Just nerds.
We're not the main hero outthere.

OTW Lance (32:21):
But don't you don't, you guys think that this is you
know, a society thing.
Like we we've all put into this,like, okay.
What's, what's it mean to be asexy guy, right?
It's gotta be like, you knowblonde hair, blue eye chiseled,
you know, body, you know, andhe's gotta be like over six feet
tall and that's what they keepportraying.

(32:43):
We all like different things,right.
Different things.
Turn us, turn us on.
So, you know, but I think that'sthe problem.
Like a lot of Asian guys.
Are like shorter than, you know,a black guy or a Caucasian guy.
Right.
And I think that pits us at thelower spectrum as well, because
somehow women prefer to havetaller guys.

(33:07):
Right.
So, because Asian guys, aren'ttypically a tall you know a
taller person then weautomatically are kind of at the
lower spectrum.
Right.
So, you know, that kind of, kindof sucks for us, but I mean,
that's, again, is that becauseof the society, the way that
society does it, or is this justa preference from a female's

(33:27):
perspective that no, you know, Ilike to look up or feel that the
man is, you know, because he'staller, there's some sort of
safety with that.
I don't know.

Angie Yu (33:39):
I go, I do.
I agree with pretty mucheverything you were saying.
Although I do think that.
Our preferences does getaffected by society because
like, we don't live in a vacuum.
It's not like we're born.
And we're like, Oh, I like thistype of person.
Right.
You like pick up things fromwhat's around you.
And we, like, we actually saidthis a lot in our episode four,

(34:01):
we said individual consciousnessis collective consciousness
because collective consciousnessis made up of individual
consciousness.

Eric (34:13):
Wait, say that again.

OTW Lance (34:15):
yeah.

Angie Yu (34:20):
Okay.
So this, this quote is from AlanWatson.
I have this like whole AlanWatts period when I was like
super depressed.
But he says that we think thatas individuals, we are separate
from society or so we'reseparate from the collective.
Consciousness.
That's absolutely not truebecause the whole idea, the
definition of a collectiveconsciousness is that it's a

(34:41):
collection of individualconsciousness.
So if you want to change thecollective consciousness, that's
like, for example, all guys haveto look like Hitler youth.
then you need to change yourindividual consciousness around
what is sexy and what isattractive, because then that
will influence up.
And once more people do that,then you're kind of changing the

(35:04):
collective consciousness.
Just how, like we're, we'reasking for more representation.
And then I didn't know, to askfor more representation until
someone else asks for morerepresentation.
So essentially like to, to boilit down to something very
philosophy, philosophical it'slike individual consciousness is

(35:24):
collective consciousness.
So like what you guys aresaying, and the reason why we
want to bring up the stuff and.
To just talk about it whenpeople say like, Oh, talk about
it, talk about it because itdoes make a difference.
So, yeah.
So that's why we want, we wantyou guys on the show to just
keep talking about it.

(35:48):
I find that there's so much morelike self-love healing,
self-improvement emotionaljourneys for women than there
are material and content formen.

Eric (35:58):
I agree.
There's less.
I don't know.
Maybe it's because PR isperceived like men are.
They don't, they don't need it.
Or, or maybe a lot of men don't,they, they don't want to talk
about it.
Right.
Because it's also a stigma onthat to talk about like, Oh,
we're, you know, we're, we, wehave issues where we want to be

(36:19):
vulnerable, but we can't, youknow, and that also relates back
to body image as well, too,because a lot of Asian males,
all they're seeing now are toare he's huge jacked white guys
and stuff like that.
Right.
So they try to get to that baby.
And if they can't stuff startsto like, it, it clouds them and
maybe certain issues start tohappen.

(36:40):
They start to have lowself-esteem because of that or
something or other issues.
And they can't talk aboutanybody with anybody, because on
top of that, they're Asian andAsian never talk about,
especially Asian men.
They don't talk, they never talkabout anything.
That's really it's like anyissue, any mental issue or any
health issue or anything ofthat.

(37:01):
So it's, it's almost like.
Like a double whammy for, forAsians.
So it's, it's, it's really badis I'll say, so there should be
more talk on Asian or our men'sjust in general men's mental
health because it's, there arelots of issues there that we can

(37:24):
relate with, with women from ourside.
Right.

OTW Lance (37:28):
agree with you.
And I think like, is there, doyou think there's something to
do with the algorithm that IgGor any of these platforms do,
because what I've noticed right.
And is that for the men andsomehow, obviously these
platforms know that you're a manor a female you know, the, the
women get a lot of the selfhealing.

(37:51):
A lot of the self loves kind ofstuff, because that's what.
Women kind of want and, and, andfor men, it's like, I noticed
that on my feeds, it's alwaysabout like some fitness or like,
you know, there's there's girlson there.
So there's a lot of that feedthat comes in, but I'm not
purposely searching for thesefeeds, but for some odd reason,

(38:13):
I think this is, you know,they've realized that this is
what keeps men on this platform.
So let's give them more of this.
This is what keeps women on theplatform.
Let's give them more of that.
And then we just, you know, Iguess what I'm trying to say is
that we, we, there should bemore like, it's gotta start
somewhere and we gotta be ableto, you know, like, you're

(38:35):
right, Eric, like men also needhelp as well.
You know, like I think more andmore men are coming out now
trying to be more vulnerable,right.
Talking about it because.
Sometimes we do need help, youknow, and sometimes we hold it
in so much that, you know, I, I,I'm pretty sure I've been there

(38:55):
myself where you, you, you just,you're embarrassed to ask for
help because we're men, we'resupposed to be the stronger
figure.
Right.
We're supposed to be that personthat is like a rock and anybody
can come to us.
And, and, you know, andespecially if we're, we're a
parent, right.
You're the father you'resupposed to be holding up the

(39:15):
family, you know, everything ison your shoulder.
So there's a big burden for us,but I think.
We're just human.
So we need, I think sometimes ifwe, we need that help it's it's
okay.
Right.
It's okay to ask for help.
And don't just keep saying, Ican do this.
I can do this because sometimesyou can, right.

(39:36):
You're just going to break downand you don't want to get to
that state because you know,that can lead you down a very
dark path.
Right.
And, and I can contest to thatand say that, you know, I I've
been down some, some deep holesand, and you should try to
really, you know, just sometimesit's, you're just, you're just

(39:57):
too proud.

Angie Yu (39:57):
Oh, that actually makes me okay.
That actually leads me to a bita burning question that I've had
is like, if you have, if youhave the need, the need for
tweet, I'm just getting, sorry.
I've been watching the office.
If you have the need to talk tosomebody about these deep
issues, where these deepconversations and you can't go

(40:19):
to your boys and grab a beer andtalk with them, who do you go to
to talk about that?

OTW Lance (40:25):
for me, I'm lucky that I have a brother that I
really connect with and, youknow, I think if I didn't have.
a brother like, like him, that'syou know, willing to talk deep.
Like I get buddies that I go toand I've tried it's not that I
haven't tried.
I've tried.
And they're like, dude, it'sokay.

(40:46):
You know, like, we'll talk aboutgirls, maybe, you know, a
breakup or something.
It's like, ah, don't worry aboutit.
You know, it's like, there'slots of girls, right.
Don't worry, men we'll find yousomething else.
And it's just, don't worry aboutit.
Right.
And instead of really whathappened, what's going on.
Right.
Let's talk about this.
And I'm just lucky that I, youknow, I have a brother that we
can really connect and talkabout what happened.

(41:09):
Was it me?
Was it her, you know, thedifferences between us and, and
really kind of hash it out andjust kind of makes you
self-reflect about how thingswent and, and that's, you know,
it's, it's really helped me go,go there, but you know, yeah.
Some, some of my friends just,they don't, they'd rather not
talk about it.
Right.
There's just like, okay.
You know, their way of thinkingof coping with it is yo man.

(41:32):
let's play some halo or, youknow some call of duty, right.
Cod or something.
Right.
Play some games and that's, youknow, that's their way of
saying, Hey, don't worry.
I'm here.
Whatever you need me.
You're right.
Cause I think that's kind ofthe, the, the, the belief that
we have, right.
Is that we're here for eachother.
Don't worry, man.
You know, let's play some games.
I'm here for you.
But sometimes, like I say, Idon't know.

(41:52):
Right.
Maybe some men are different.
Right.
Some men just say, I don't wantto talk about that kind of shit.
Just let's go out and have agood time.
And then there are some men thatlook, man, I want to have this
conversation or get it out vent.
Right.
It's not just women that do it.
Right.
Men can do it too.
And maybe there's women outthere that don't want to talk
about that kind of shit.
It's just like, I just, justleave me alone.

(42:13):
Right.
I just want to do whatever Iwant play some video games or
something.
Right.
So everyone's different.

Angie Yu (42:19):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's having that.
I think it's having that safespace.
Like I know if, if something'sreally bugging me and I know
that there are differentgirlfriends of mine that I can
go for different issues.
And there, there will be thatsafe space for me to talk about
that.
But I think that is such a, ithas been so feminized that

(42:41):
concept of like offering.
Help and consoling your friends.
It's so feminized, right?
Cause I do, I do know.
I have guy friends who like,they go to their female friends
for these types of issues.
And I was actually having aconversation with a guy friend
from university and I was kindatalking to him about mental

(43:02):
health and about my recentdiagnosis and stuff like that.
He was like, yeah, like hedidn't name any names.
He's like, yeah, well, you knowwhat?
This group of friends, like, weactually started to have a
monthly meetup where we cut thebullshit, we cut the jokes and
we just asked, we go around andask everyone how they're doing.
Like, how is that actuallygoing?
Like, are you stressed out workall you're worried about your

(43:23):
career?
Oh, you're you're having arelationship.
But she was like, they actuallymake an effort to do that
because one person in the grouphad just gone to a really,
really dark place.
And then as a group, theyrealized like, yo, we need to
like, do something about thisbecause like our friend needs
our help.
But of course, like not allfriend groups are not all, you
know, some, like, I think forthem, that was a very special

(43:45):
case because I guess there wereenough people who cared about
this stuff.
Right.
But I feel like, yeah, likemaybe even just throwing this
example, maybe someone, alistener out there who heard
this, they're like, yo, that'ssuch a good idea.
I should do this with myfriends.
Like I'm like, I I'm, I'm justhoping that that will be passed
along

OTW Lance (44:03):
I hope.

Angie Yu (44:04):
I feel like it's so

OTW Lance (44:04):
Yeah.
I definitely hope that, youknow, men can go out there and,
and do that.
Right.
And you definitely need a good.
Support group, because like,like again, we go back to the
very beginning, talk about beingjudgmental and, and that fear is
coming from within us.
And so a lot of times men don'twant to share those things
because they're fearful for theway that, you know, your buddies

(44:28):
or, you know, your close friendsare judging you right now.
and instead of being supportive,right, instead of saying, Hey,
you know what, let's, let's tryto find ways out of this.
And they're here making fun ofyou and makes, just makes things
even worse.
So I think, you know, for, forpeople out there, I think if you
can, you know, be genuine andreally.
You know, help a friend.

(44:49):
and, and, you know, some guys,like I say, are, are different
and they do need to talk aboutthings.
And some guys don't, but realizewho those people are.
And exactly, like you said,create a safe space where you're
not going to be judged orcriticized about what happened.
Right.
Cause I mean, you could bewrong.
You could be right.
But this is a space where youcan talk about it and learn from

(45:12):
all of these experiences, right?
Whether it was a right move fromyou or a wrong move is that you
can go out there and, and reallytake something out of it for
yourself to grow.
Right.
Instead of being stuck in thesame place, because if you don't
talk about it, you don't know,then you go through another
relationship or the similarsituations and you figure in,

(45:33):
well, what's going on and thismust be the girl.
Right?
I mean then maybe the guy, everyguy that you go around with is
telling you the same thing.
But you know, I think that's thekey is you got to get different
perspectives because sometimes.
If you're out with your buddies,they're always going to be like,
dude, that girl was a nigger wasa sled anyways.
Or like, you know, that girl wasno good for you and yeah, she's

(45:54):
crazy.
Like, you don't want to hearthose kinds of things.
I mean, some guys date theirgirlfriends for four years and
you're like, no, I love thisperson, but something happened.
Right.
And you don't want to hear it.
Oh yeah.
She's trashed for you.
Like, I've heard that so manytimes from my buddies.
Right.
And, and I'm like, okay, I breakup, you know, and then I get
back together and then of coursethey're like, Oh no.

(46:16):
Yeah.
She's cool.
She's cool.
You know, but they don't sit,you know, they don't, it's just
like, it's all whacked, right?
Like they think being supportiveis just means to be on your
side.
But sometimes you need thatconstructive criticism.
You need to know what's goingon.
Right.
Like, I don't know.
That's just me again.
It's just me.
Maybe Eric, you got somethingelse?
I don't know.

Eric (46:37):
Oh man, for me, it's I don't really talk to too many
people about any issues that Ihave.
I talked to myself, I guessPeople talk to me about their
issues a lot.
And then we go deep.
We can go deep into that.
I don't really talk to, I treatit for me.

(47:01):
It's I've only been in like,kind of like one place that was
dark one time in my life.
Like this was like the lowestpoint of my life.
And at that point I was allalone anyway.
So I just had that.
I just dealt with it myself.
I had a good cry.
I, I had a good cry.

(47:22):
I was in the shower.
I still remember I was in theshower

Angie Yu (47:25):
Oh, your favorite place.

Eric (47:26):
my favorite place and I had a good cry in there.
And then I was good to go.
So I just cried it out myselfand then I was done.
Yeah.
I don't really talk to too manypeople, honestly,

OTW Lance (47:39):
but could put it, could you have used a friend at
that time?

Eric (47:41):
I, I guess so that, that could have been good.
Maybe not with me in the shower.

Kristy Yee (47:47):
That would be quite beautiful.

Angie Yu (47:49):
You know, all jokes aside.
Like we like to joke that, youknow, boys being romantic with
each other is really funnybecause there's some sort of
like, we laugh about it becauseit's like, Oh, because that's
not going to happen, but Hey, weneed to encourage these, you
know, bromance

Eric (48:07):
Oh, bromance is a love, a love bromance.
So

Angie Yu (48:11):
Actually that I find bromance.
One of the sexiest thing.
I think that's probably one,that's one thing that's very
universal.
Chrissy and I have verydifferent tastes than men, but
one thing we can agree on islike, does that guy have a
bromantic partner?
Yes,

OTW Lance (48:25):
So, what, what is the definition of a bromance to you
guys?

Kristy Yee (48:30):
crying in the shower together.

Eric (48:31):
In that case.
Okay.
I don't know if I've actuallyhad,

Angie Yu (48:36):
I think it's the, the key is like being able to be
vulnerable with someone, whetherit's your brother, your friend,
your mom, your girlfriend, likeanything like that.
I think being vulnerable withsomeone.
I think that just says a lotabout the person's like
emotional availability

Eric (48:53):
Ooh, that's a, I was picturing something else, but

OTW Lance (48:56):
Yeah.

Eric (48:57):
my definition of romance is like us feeling each other's
biceps, bro.
You've been working, know thatand then, you know, hitting each
other's balls or something likethat.
That's, that's our definition.

Angie Yu (49:07):
but I think that's how men show their love for each

Eric (49:10):
That is,

Angie Yu (49:12):
and that's well, that's part of it, right?
That's part of the bromance.
But I think for women, becausewe're so emotionally driven that
we see that as an emotionalconnection,

Eric (49:22):
Oh, in that case we will.
Yeah.
Then I got some emotionalconnections.
All right.

OTW Lance (49:29):
You slap in a lot of balls.

Eric (49:33):
We just, we just hit each other.
It's awesome.

Angie Yu (49:36):
Like, like, that's funny, like men, men are like,
Oh, is this my friend?
Let me slap your ball.
And women are like, we're notgoing to go up to each other and
slap each other's

Kristy Yee (49:44):
yo,

Angie Yu (49:45):
like Christie, I miss you so much.
boom, boom, boom, boom.

Kristy Yee (49:49):
you know, we're, we're at 2d, slapping status,
you know, we got.

OTW Lance (49:52):
I got to say, that's probably something definitely
attractive for, for men, right?
I mean, as much as you saybromance, I would say that is
like, you know, the, what do youcall that?
sister's sister love or whateversister,

Eric (50:08):
Now, like what I do with my friends is all obviously not
indicative of what all, I don'tknow if Lance, Lance probably

OTW Lance (50:17):
I don't know what the, what the craziness is with
about, you know, punching eachother's in the balls.
But somehow I know that everyfucking man out there does it
with their fucking bros and Idon't know what it is, but we
fucking love doing it to eachother.
So just, it's just one of thosethings that you just, you know,
we, you know, you're tight whenyou can fucking punch your buddy

(50:39):
in the balls, you know,

Eric (50:40):
yeah,

OTW Lance (50:41):
and not get pissed off about it, then it's like,
okay, we're we're good buddies.
Right.

Angie Yu (50:46):
Oh man.
That's the Ivy.
We all express love differently,right?

Kristy Yee (50:50):
I want to go like a full one 80.
Is that one 80 or three 60?
No, three 60.
Yeah.
It'd be like going back to wherewere so when I go, I'm going to
go one 80.
Okay.

OTW Lance (51:01):
yeah, math was definitely not your strong

Kristy Yee (51:03):
but

Eric (51:05):
Oh shit.

Kristy Yee (51:18):
Angie and I.
We used to get personalcomments, comments from
strangers, DMS from people wedon't know.
And they would either come intoour personal Instagram or into
our podcast, Instagram, DMS, andwhenever we would get these

(51:38):
messages from folks, we wouldscreenshot it and then send it
to each other so that we arereminded of.
How important this is and keepsus motivated in, keeps us
motivated in continuing to pumpout the content.

(51:59):
Continuing to interview guests,continue to have our stories
heard and have uncomfortableconversations shared so that we
collectively can be a bit morecomfortable with the
uncomfortable.
So it really means a lot to uswhen everyone sends in their

(52:20):
love.
and here's feel good feedbacksfor today's episode from UBC
women in CS, CS, meaningcomputer science.
They say, Hey, Angie andChristie, I just finished binge
listening to all three episodes.
I really enjoy your sense ofhumor, storytelling style, and
the chemistry between you two.

(52:42):
I used to volunteer at BCchildren's, which I guess is
where episode two took place.
And I had no idea about thecloud rooms.
I just really want to know whathappened to Christie at the end
had, how did she get out?
Did she end up sharing her sideof the story to the school would
be nice to have another episodefor the resolution and
conclusion.
Anyways, keep it up.
I really enjoy it.

(53:02):
Thanks.
And thank you.
UBC women in CS I hope this isanonymous enough and just thank
you so much for supporting usfrom the beginning.
And yes, I did end up sharingwhat happened in the end.
It is now episode five.
So go check that out and thankyou again to UBC women in CS.
Thank you.

(53:22):
Your comment really means somuch to us.
All right, bye.
For now back to the episode youboth mentioned dark places.

Eric (53:36):
Yeah,

OTW Lance (53:37):
No, you're not going to go there.
We're almost done.
I see a folks.
See you

Eric (53:41):
I'm ready.
I'm ready.

Kristy Yee (53:42):
let's, let's go there how are we supposed to
encourage men to talk about deepshit and to be vulnerable with
each other?
If we cannot be vulnerable rightnow?

Eric (53:55):
Oh, I'll be vulnerable, man.
I'm an open book, soul man.
My darkest spot, this I thinkwas, so this was when I was
still in Malaysia and at thatpoint, my money had gone down to
a boat.
Fuck.
Like, you know, when you're overthere, I was doing a startup.
I'm watching my money go downand then you, you kind of have a

(54:16):
limit to yourself.
Okay.
5,000.
And it goes down to that 3000and in 2000.
So at that point I like no moneyleft.
my, my buddy, my businesspartner, he was deported.
like I had to, the startup wasfailing.
I was, I.
I was, I was scared of beingdeported cause I was doing a lot

(54:38):
of visa running and it was, itwas tough, Matt.
And then I was waking up everyday and not do all I was doing
was just eating the bare minimumamount of food.
Cause I was working like a superlow paying job at the time.
And all I was doing was justworking on need and bread and
like nothing every day I, atthat point and in my mind I was

(55:03):
going like, okay, I gotta gohome.
I gotta find, I can't even gethome.
I had to find someone to bail meout of, out of Malaysia.
I just broke down right there.
Cause like I, I knew I had totell my people in Malaysia to
leave.
I had to go back home and tellmy friends that I didn't make
it.
They did that didn't wasn'tsuccessful.
So it was like, at that point Ijust broke down, just started

(55:24):
crying in the shower and theshower sucked too.
So cause like, it was one ofthose stupid ass showers where
there's no, like it's just thatthey only have half a, yeah.
It is just some bullshit.
I'm like, fuck.
Anyway, I was crying, but it wasa good cry.
It was a good cry and a yeah.
Yeah.
Because like all that heavinesskinda like sank in right there.

(55:48):
Right there, there was a lot ofunknowns.
I was also like a million milesfrom home.
Cause I didn't really knowanybody.
my family was on the other sideof the world.
Right.
So it was a tough, tough momentright there.
So boom.
I just started crying.
It was a good cry.
Fuck.
It was, it was a great cry.
I haven't had a cry like that ina long time, so yeah, that was

(56:08):
my darkest moment.

OTW Lance (56:10):
you can cry with me, brother.
Let's

Eric (56:12):
Oh shit.

OTW Lance (56:13):
My shower, your shower, my shower, your HSA.

Angie Yu (56:16):
Lance will complete the other shower

Eric (56:18):
I'll bring the loofa.

Angie Yu (56:20):
he'll be the missing door.

OTW Lance (56:22):
I can't top that.

Angie Yu (56:23):
you for sharing that, Lance, you can't top that you
did mention a dark moment aswell.

OTW Lance (56:27):
I did.
I did.
I, I've had a couple of darkmoments in my life.
it's, it's hard for me to share.
It's just it's so dark.
It just brings me into tearsthinking about it, but I will
share it for you and yourlisteners, so that you're right.
You, we, we have to show thatmen are vulnerable and that, you

(56:49):
know, we, we, we break down andthere's times where we need
help.
So my story, Oh, geez.
I go back probably in my earlyyears, like junior high years.
So what is that?
13, 14 about there.

(57:11):
And I guess it starts, startsout that you know, where we're
from, there's a lot of racism.
That happens.
So a lot of racism, a lot ofgame picked on at school.
just a lot of, a lot of hateinside.
So didn't have any friends.
And for me, it was like, I wasquiet already to begin with.

(57:33):
So I didn't, didn't talk a wholelot.
but you know, you just kind ofkeep going through and then
things kind of get worse.
my parents got divorced.
And, you know, Asian parentsdon't go through divorces, you
know, it's very various, there'slots of stigma to that.
Right.
So, you know, watching myparents, having to go through

(57:55):
that with other families,watching them, you know, again,
in your own mind, playing outhow everyone's judging you know,
how your family is.
I was super in a dark place.
I can talk to, anybody can talkto my mom and dad, obviously,
because I knew that they weregoing through a tough time and
being the oldest.
So I have two other brothers.
I had to try to just keep ittogether.

(58:17):
Right.
My youngest brother was tooyoung.
Didn't probably didn't reallyunderstand too much, but had a
lot of questions.
my second brother, you know,he's about a year, year and
something apart from me.
So we both, we both knew whatwas going on, but it was just,
just super tough to, to, to dealwith it.
And along with that, with.

(58:39):
You know, all the, all thebullying at school you know, I
thought about just ending mylife just because it just seems
so hard at the time.
and obviously I was scaredshitless about killing myself.
Didn't know how it was going todo it.
Tried it a couple of times,like, you know, just trying to
suffocate yourself can pull itoff just cause you know, it was

(59:02):
just I dunno, I can get myselfto go that far.
Right.
And then, you know, thoughtabout you know, cutting
yourself.
Cause you, you see in it andyou're just like, nah, it's too
painful.
You know?
And just thinking about blood,I'm like, nah, I can't do that.
So yeah, it was just supertough.

(59:22):
I think I went through likealmost two to three years of
that and.
I'm glad there wasn't socialmedia back then.
Cause I think it would have beeneven harder for me.
I think the one thing thathelped me was that I did have a
really good friend and, and, andhe helped me in the sense, not

(59:44):
by talking about, but just, justgetting me out of my world, you
know, just get me out of that,that, that world that I was in
and making me forget about whereI was at that moment and just
letting me be, you know, ateenager to be able to still
have fun with someone.

(01:00:04):
And I think that helped me, youknow, trying to just get my life
saying, Hey, you know what?
It's, it's, it's bad, but you'llget, you'll get through this.
And.
And I'm happy that you know, I'mhappy that I had him in my life
to, to be able to walk methrough that.
And just, you know, I know hedoes, you know, we're kids, you

(01:00:27):
know, we're in our teens.
I know in his mind, you know, Idon't know if he knew whether or
not he's helped me out to thisfar to this day, but I've, I've
often told him, you know, if itwasn't for him and his family, I
may be one of these days.
my thoughts would have beensuccessful and, and those
attempts would have beensuccessful.

(01:00:49):
So I'm, I'm glad I'm still hereand able to share this story
with some of your listeners.
So anybody out there that needshelp, you know, reach out it's,
it's dark it can get really darkand you might think that you're
all alone out there.
But, but you're not.
And, and I know there's somegood people and I have faith

(01:01:11):
that there are good people outthere that will help you, you
know?
And don't be afraid to ask forhelp.
Although, like I say, I was 13.
I didn't know what it was, but Iwas happy.
I knew I was happy going thereand I always wanted to go there.
Maybe that was my way of askingfor help by saying, Hey, can I

(01:01:31):
go to this person's house?
You know, I want to go there andplay.
And that was my way of gettingout.
So, you know, if you're there,if you're you're, you're in this
hole, just reach out and, and,and look for something good.
I know there's lots of good inthis world and don't think that

(01:01:54):
there's, and don't think thatthe world's against you because
there's this life you just,there's just so much to offer in
this life.
So, yeah, that's my story.

Kristy Yee (01:02:09):
Holy fucks.
Thank you for sharing that.
I think.

Angie Yu (01:02:13):
so my first thought is like your common following Eric
stories, like, Oh, I don't knowif I can top that.
And.

Yeah, it's tough to madness.
Top two.

Angie Yu (01:02:25):
yeah,

Sorry, Eric.

Angie Yu (01:02:27):
the thing

Your story is valid too.

Angie Yu (01:02:30):
The pain that you both felt are both absolutely valid
because that was at the painthat you felt.
And for Eric, the way for him toget out of the situation was
like, you need a little bit offinancial help.
Of course, you know, the fear offailure and the fear of telling
your friends that those were allhuge detractors from your mental
health as well.
but in, in your case lens, itwas the, the loneliness and the,

(01:02:52):
and the actual emotional healthsorry, the emotional need that
was difficult to satisfy.
And that's why you had thosethoughts and I've, I've been in
your place.
And I completely understandwhere you're coming from.
So thank you for sharing thatand like, Both of your stories
are like, it's okay to fail atsomething.

(01:03:13):
Even if you're a man, becausemen tend to value their careers
more and it's okay to fail andadmit that, Hey, this thing
didn't work out for me.
I'm going to try out a differentventure.
And if you're a man and you'restruggling with your emotions
and you're struggling with yourmental health, that's okay too.
Like they're both valid.
Even if one, you can't see,they're both valid.

Eric (01:03:36):
Yeah, I failed a lot, man.
The amount of chapters I couldwrite on that is crazy, but you
just keep coming.
You, you, you, you move on, youknow, you keep coming back.
Sometimes you can surroundyourself with positive people as
well, too.
They can help you and talk toyou and, you know, make you keep

(01:03:57):
going.
Right.
Like I mean, for me, it's true.
I have never been in Lanzasituation only because I.
You know, I've never experiencedthat in that particular regard.
And I noticed it's veryinteresting too, how we both
shared our stories.
Mine was I was sharing a storyof kind of like emotion, but I

(01:04:19):
was also making jokes out of itand stuff like that.
It was more, I guess it was myway of sharing was like a more
lighthearted way.
Lance went, this guy went fullBruce Wayne style.
And but it was also his way ofsharing it too.
So it was like two differentstyles of sharing, but the pain
or the emotions that we feltwere, I mean, I also had a very,

(01:04:41):
it was like a heavy sense on me.
I, like I said, I don't cryreally.
Only in amazing great sportsmoments and I'll tear up a
little bit, but, and likesometimes in some romance movies
sometimes, but that cry was likewas a deep one.
So it was both, was it, we hadour low situations and it's, but

(01:05:06):
we, we, we, we hurdled overthem.
We leaped over them.
Right.
And it was via the support ofwhat helped us to was, was
support.
And that's super key.
Try never to keep it toyourself.
If you can like me, I keep a lotof stuff to myself.
I that's, that's me.

(01:05:26):
It's, it's hard.
But if you can talk to peopleand share it, because when you
talk to them, you have thisweight that can, that you can
pass.
If you can let go a little bit,because you're able to share it
with somebody and as long asthey can talk with you about it
and stuff, it's, it will alwaysbe better.
Then just keep it to yourself.

yeah, earlier I was joking.
I'm like Eric, you've beentopped.

Eric (01:05:51):
yo, what?
That was, man, this guy Preusswaned it.

I almost want to know.
Not almost, I do want to takethat back because everybody's
low points is different.
We really shouldn't be comparingeach other's low points.
Because your low point is goingto be your low point, Eric, like
that's, that's you in yourdeepest pit of pain.
And that was the darkest spotfor you.

(01:06:17):
no denying that amount ofemotion and everything that had
erupted in that moment when youwere in the shower and crying
that heavy cry that you don'texperience very often, that's
some serious shit.

(01:06:38):
And for Lance, pit, where youwere, has, you know, there's,
there's nothing to compare thatwith.
Eric's it's like, you know,apples and oranges, right.
Where you are, I think bothequally lonely because Eric
you're on the other side of theworld, this, all the shit is
happening, Lance, like you werehome.

(01:07:01):
But it's a different type ofloneliness here because you
weren't able to share yourstory.
You weren't able to, you havethe weight of the world on your
shoulders.
You had to be this big brother,right?
You had to all theseexpectations on you.
You have to hold it alltogether.
You, you, you, this is all new.
You're a fucking teenager, youknow, you're 14, right.

(01:07:24):
But you feel like you gotta bethe man at that moment, but you
just, you cannot.
And it's heavy.
They're both heavy.
So I think what I just didearlier comparing because I did,
I subconsciously did and we alllaughed and I think we all did
in some way, but then I thoughtthat's not fair at all.

(01:07:48):
To compare these two

OTW Kristy (01:07:49):
low

points.

OTW Lance (01:07:51):
For sure.
I agree with you.
And, and I think that's one ofthe keys is, you know, as, as we
look at people, we can't dismisspeople's what they feel as a, as
a low point.
And I think that's what happensa lot of times, right.
That we look at, Oh, it's ateenager.
Oh man.
Yeah.
They go through their teenageyears and, and, and they'll get

(01:08:14):
through it.
They'll, they'll, there'll be,you know, there'll be fine, but
I think that's where theimportance comes around.
Like you say, right.
Everyone treats and handles.
Stress differently.
Right?
One thing that, you know, it's,you know, if I spilled water on
me, you know, I know no bigdeal, but maybe to someone else

(01:08:34):
that's like gonna throw themover the top.
And they thinking about endingtheir life because of something
that we think is so simple.
And that's why mental healthmental awareness is, is so key
to realizing don't dismiss.
Oh, because you think that it'snot a big deal to you, right.

(01:08:56):
Because, Oh yeah.
You know, I've been through lotsof that.
That's, you know, it's no bigdeal.
He'll get through it.
But at this moment, at thispoint for that person, it feels
like it's life ending moment forthem.
Right.
So I think for some of thelisteners, you know, again, If
you're the person that's feelingthe need to get help, get help.

(01:09:18):
And if you're not that person,but realizing, look, something's
not right with this person is alittle bit off or she's a little
bit off.
Maybe I need to give a hand oryou understand the situation,
you know, what's going on withthis person, but you need to
give them that, that, that, thattime and space to understand how

(01:09:38):
it's making this person feel,how, how is it elevated to a
point where wow, this person ishe's, he's gonna, he's gonna
lose it or she's gonna lose itor no, he's, he's coping with
it.
He just needs, you know, justsome time to himself, or maybe
we need to do this or that, butrecognize that right.
And not dismiss it like, Oh,Eric, that's no big deal, man.

(01:10:02):
Look at what Lance had to gothrough.
I mean, sure.
Everyone can look at it in a.
Million ways.
Right.
But key is, is, is hisimportance, his low level, not
as important as my low-level no,it's, it's equally important.
Right?
I think that's w w what we gotto take out of that

totally.
And I think, you know, both,both as a person who is
listening to someone else'sstory to be cognizant of that
judgment, but also as someonewho wants to perhaps.
Talk about it, you know, you're,you're in a bad place right now
and you want to talk about it,but you feel, you feel like, Oh,

(01:10:41):
my problem is actually not thatbad.
No, you start judging yourself.
You start judging your ownproblems.
You're like, Oh yeah.
There's people have it way worsethan me.
You know?
Like people have lost parents,lost jobs, you know, like I live
in this, I live in a privilege,Western based society.
There's always going to bepeople worse than me and my

(01:11:02):
problems are not real problems.
And I think that thinking iswhat makes us keep to ourselves
because we feel like we areproblems are not actual
problems.
We don't validate our own pain.

Angie Yu (01:11:22):
Yup.
And I I'm going to throw theAsian immigrant parents spin on
it is because our experience askids, if we complained to our
parents, they invalidate us.
They're like, well, that'snothing compared to what we had
to go through all your tirewhile I'm tired.
Oh, you don't have time makesome time, you know, like we're
used to be invalidated, likewe're used to that.

(01:11:44):
So we think that that's the wayit goes, but we got to learn
that shit.
We got to unlearn that shittogether as a collective.

OTW Lance (01:11:56):
agreed much agreed.
Yeah.
I, I couldn't have said itbetter.
Yep.

Angie Yu (01:12:01):
Thank you guys so much for sharing your story.
I'm so glad that we were able tobe here for you to share your
story.
Because I do think it is reallyimportant for us to sometimes
tear down that wall a littlebit.
Like we all joke around, like,it's a, it's a defense
mechanism, it's a copingmechanism.
sometimes you just look at a cutthe bullshit and just like talk

(01:12:23):
about the real issue.
So I'm really, really glad thatyou guys opened up with us.

OTW Lance (01:12:27):
Yeah, I thank you for the opportunity because I'm
pretty sure I've never reallyshared that story with a lot of
people.
So now that it's on the air foreveryone and all of your
listeners to listen to, I hopeat least you can take something
out of what what I've learnedand, you know hopefully that's
helped some of your listeners

Eric (01:12:47):
Yeah.
And, you know, plan a littlebetter if you decide to move
abroad to, to to start to starta business.
Okay.
Don't get to my situation.
That's all I'm going to say on

Angie Yu (01:13:00):
Or just ask for it, you know?
Yeah.
If you do ask for help you know,there's a lot of people that get
like what you said earlier, Ericjust get good people in your
life.

Eric (01:13:09):
that's right.
That is very key.
I mean, I've shared my story toa couple of people before, but
now I get to share a ton morepeople and I love it.
I want them to hear my story.
It's

Angie Yu (01:13:20):
I agree.

Eric (01:13:21):
great.
You know, next stop sexualfantasies, and then we'll just
keep going from there.

this is why the, the

Angie Yu (01:13:29):
you guys have to come back onto our show.
Yeah.
You guys had to come back for,you know, other episodes because
we do really, really value theperspective from, you know,
someone who's different, alittle bit

from dudes.
We need

Angie Yu (01:13:42):
yeah.
We need some dudes on here.
Yeah.
So on that note to ourlisteners, our poop troops if
you guys want to check out, youknow, if y'all want to check out
more of Lance and Eric's stuff,then head on over to off the
walk.

Thank you again, guys, for being on the show, you
guys are coming back.
We're just going to say it tothe internet.
So you can't say no now, becauseit's going to come back and
we'll, we'll chat some more, anylast parting words to our guests

OTW Lance (01:14:17):
no, just thank you so much for having us it's it was,
it was fun.
fun, getting, getting all, youknow warm and fuzzy inside and
being able to share a lot withyour, you know, with you guys.
So thank you again for having uson your show.

Eric (01:14:34):
Yes.
Thank you.
We can't wait to come back onagain

Angie Yu (01:14:38):
Yes, it was fun.
Honorable,

Oh my God.

Angie Yu (01:14:42):
sorry, not sorry.

(01:15:15):
Okay.
I'm going to stop record now.

Eric (01:15:18):
now.

Oh, I'm I'm not stuffing up it

OTW Lance (01:15:20):
oh, are we stopping?
Are we not stopping?

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