January 23, 2022 • 56 mins
Mimi Young is a spirit communicator. She left the corporate 9-5 world to invest in a relationship with the unseen. In this episode, we explore how Shamanism is a way to honor our ancestry, what is dream hygiene and how you can benefit, and how to get back in touch with your cultural roots that have been lost through migration and cultural revolutions.
“When we can return to our roots, practices and customs, in the context of magic and spirituality, it is an act of decolonizing because then you are saying - I am Chinese, and this is what we do” - Mimi Young
Takeaways:
- Listen to your surroundings and traditional folklore stories
- Reconnecting with your spirituality IS claiming your culture and identity. It is part of decolonization.
- Traditional Chinese Medicine is an art & science with connections to mediumship
- Treat going to sleep like going out with friends; spend time to get ready for it
- Politics IS informed by spirituality
- The concept of permission is rooted in enslavement
- Learn to build systems that cultivate more serotonin rather than dopamine
Mentions & Resources:
- Shop Ceremonie by Mimi Yong (website)
- The Woowoo by Lindsay Wong (book)
- A Practice—and a Spell—to Find Meaning in Your Dreams (article)
- Listen to more Mimi Young (podcasts)
- Astral dream mist
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Angie Yu (00:00):
This is so funny.
Like we were expecting to learnall this stuff about
spirituality and someone is, nowwe're talking about,
Mimi Young (00:08):
About politics.
you know, why?
Because spirituality is.
And because politics is informedby spirituality, people who
start wars, they usually blameit.
Well, they don't blame it.
They justify it because God saidso.
Angie Yu (00:22):
right.
Mimi Young (00:23):
Right.
So, So, that's why we keep on goor we, I do it too.
I find everything goes back topolitics because spirituality
and politics are fairlyinterchangeable.
Kristy Yee (01:00):
Welcome back to another episode of shit we don't
tell mom where we getcomfortable with the
uncomfortable today.
We have Mimi young joining usfrom all the way from Vancouver
Mimi is a Han TaiwaneseCanadian.
She is a mama of two, a tealover.
She's a bibliophile.
She is a lucid dreamer, which issomething that I would love to
(01:21):
learn to be better at.
Maybe you have some tips for me.
she also loves house and technoand what's super cool is she's
also a spirit communicator and ashamanistic, occultist.
I think that's how you say it.
occultist.
Thank you for nodding.
She's also the founder ofceremony and esoteric brand
focusing on imparting ancientand practical wisdom so that her
(01:44):
clients can break out ofnegative patterns from spirits
and healing energies.
Mimi works with core shamanismand ancestral wisdom, dream
work, chaos magik with a K atthe end and other Chinese mystic
practices.
And to communicate with theunseen offering education,
mentorship, private readings,and skin and aura care.
(02:05):
Welcome Mimi to the show.
Mimi Young (02:08):
Thank you so much for having me.
Kristy Yee (02:11):
All these things that we were just talking about,
all of the spiritual listicthings that you are working on,
that you are involved in.
I've always been very curiousabout the unseen world.
But yet I am, it makes meuncomfortable and makes me a
little bit scared.
You know, it's, it's likelooking into a hole that without
(02:32):
knowing what's on the other endof it, but you're curious.
So those are, those are how Ifeel about like the unseen world
and spiritual ism.
First of all, how did you getinto this?
Mimi Young (02:43):
I would say that I started a lot feeling the way
you did or you still do.
and yeah, I jumped in the hole
Angie Yu (02:51):
you saw the uncertainty and you're like,
hello, you didn't dip your toesin.
You just dive bread.
You just dove.
Right.
Mimi Young (03:00):
I mean, when I was very, very young, I was very
connected and aware that,spirits were around me.
yeah, I could hear plants forinstance.
They're definitely my earliest,you know, form of friendships.
and, and yeah, like it's just,you know, as one grows up in the
(03:20):
kind of world that we live in,perhaps some of it, you know,
culture and religion play a bitof a role.
but just the greater society.
It's, it's not something that istalked about is not something
that is encouraged.
Unless there's that additionaltypecast, right?
Like that, oh, that that's,that's weird or all these
additional stereotypes that'sassociated with mediumship or
(03:42):
spirit communication or magicand, you know, shamonic work.
so yeah, it, it did go godormant for a really long time.
it would sort of rear its headover.
So often it did a bit when I wasa teenager and I would start
psychic smelling things.
So smell things that were notthere, but it meant like the
smells or the sense carriedmessages.
(04:02):
But yeah, ultimately how I gotinto this was because I decided
to, you know, go head first intothe hole.
and really it was because I ranout of options.
I, you know, I tried everythingelse and nothing else was
working.
So I thought, well, I've alreadylost all of it.
So, you know, it's not going,I'm not going to lose anything
else.
so I jumped.
Kristy Yee (04:22):
what do you mean by you've already lost all of it.
Mimi Young (04:26):
Yeah, So I lost my sense of safety.
I lost my identity.
I lost my idea of what lovemeant I lost, you know, like
success on a, like on paper,everything I had it all, but
none of it meant a thingultimately.
And, every rule that I followedthat carried the promise that I
would live like a happy,fulfilling wondrous life was I
(04:49):
like, none of it was true.
and I think the best way toexplain it was I was living a
life of very staple boredom.
but it's like the kind ofboredom.
Actually deeply painful.
Like it's like a, it, you know,it really aroused those extra
existential questions of like,why am I even here?
(05:09):
What's the point of even beingalive?
do I really have to do thisuntil I'm 90?
Like, you know, and it couldhave been any day.
It could have been any month,but I already knew what was
planned.
I already knew what I had to dofor work.
I already knew, you know, whenmy paycheck would come in, which
was a very handsome one, Ialready knew how I was going to
spend it in terms of vacationsand coffees and clothes and all
(05:32):
these things.
And I was just really notinterested in any of it anymore.
I felt like I was a ghostessentially.
Like I was this, this shell of aperson on the outside that
maybe, had it all so to speak.
And yet I didn't have that.
Kristy Yee (05:52):
It was like, you had it all from what others tell you
that you should have, but on theinside you were just empty
because it wasn't what youwanted.
Angie Yu (06:02):
Yeah, it was on someone else's terms, which is
not what you'd want.
Right.
Mimi Young (06:05):
Totally.
And I mean, I w I was thecliched good Chinese daughter.
Like, it's so funny that like,you know the name of your
podcast.
It's like, oh yeah, look,there's a lot of shit to tell
you for sure.
Kristy Yee (06:24):
Let's go into that.
What was mom's reaction when youmade this switch?
Mimi Young (06:31):
Oh, well of course he didn't like it.
I mean, So I I'm, I'm I mean I'mthe first born, and with it,
there's all sorts ofexpectations around being, you
know, the first born Chinesedaughter, from, you know, the
relationship with siblings andthe obligations that one has to
take with siblings, to caringfor the family, you know,
(06:53):
parents, elders, and so forth,being constantly available,
doing it with a smile on yourface.
and yeah, my mom's anevangelical Christian.
So, you know, in addition to theculture that, I, I live in
there's this additional layer ofreligion, and particularly one
that is rooted in obedience andnot questioning and following
(07:18):
the rules because the rules aremeant to protect you or lead you
to this life of reward.
And in the case of, the, thesort of churches that I attended
the reward was was, you know,it's in heaven, which means that
you're not really gonna see thereward until you're dead, which,
you know, takes an immenseamount of patience and faith.
and, and yeah, so, so there'sall that layered into it.
Kristy Yee (07:42):
did she knew that you were, I don't even know if
these are the right terms, soplease correct me like
spiritually gifted since youwere a child.
Cause you mentioned like you've,you've always had.
Mimi Young (07:52):
Yeah, she would, especially like when she stepped
into like, so she stepped intothe church when I was in, you
know yeah.
Like junior high liquid ormiddle school in per for
listeners who may not befamiliar with what junior high
means.
so like around like grade grade,seven grade eight ish.
and you know, from that pointon, she would say things like,
(08:14):
oh, it was like God's way orlike the holy Spirit's way to
talk to me.
Yet.
So many of my quote unquotegiftings was not what was
discussed in the Bible ordiscussed on the pulpit.
So it was always likeencouraging me to find other
ways to speak to the Lord, thatwere more acceptable.
Like maybe through prayer ormaybe through, through.
(08:38):
Other mediums that wasn'tnecessarily through, let's say
psychic scent or, or, or soforth.
it was always sort of seenthrough that filter.
and then when I said, no, mom,I'm not even communicating with
Jesus.
Like, I'm definitely notcommunicating with Jesus.
I'm communicating with deadpeople.
I'm communication with plants,I'm communicating with animals.
that, that was really upsetting.
(08:58):
I think it was upsetting for herbecause she, by then genuinely
believed that what I was doingwas evil, even though
ancestrally it's what, you know,our culture, we've always done
that.
Like, I mean, when you thinkabout, let's say, the lunar new
year, it's always aboutancestral reverence.
So it was always about thiscontinuity of cycles.
people that came before us andthe people who came before them
(09:18):
and so forth, and always goesback to the land.
Like what I was believing, I wasreally by technical definition,
I was just being, and living myculture.
Angie Yu (09:27):
Yeah.
Well, I'm listening to you.
I feel this sort of you'restirring up the ancestral
connection that I feel like whenyou're talking about this, all I
can think about is like thethings that I used to see my
grandmother do, you know,putting out food for those who
are not there.
And even back then, my uncle wasthe first to.
(09:49):
Immigrate out of our Homeland,our ancestral land.
And she will use to put out apair of chopsticks and a bowl of
rice for him during every singlebig occasion.
And to me that I haven't thoughtabout that for a really long
time, until what you just said.
Now, I feel this immediately byhearing what you talk about and
(10:09):
about how like, Hey, this hasbeen a part of our culture for
so long.
Like immediately I made thatconnection and that that's an
incredible feeling.
Mimi Young (10:18):
I mean, it's, it's so funny when people think like,
you know, when you are a witch,so to speak that you have to go
to this far away place and beordained and have this huge
epiphany.
for me, yes.
In some ways I did have anepiphany, it was like really
profound.
but it was also a series ofsmall things that, yeah, like
(10:39):
you, like, I did the same.
I, I looked to what my mum didbefore she entered the church.
I looked, I looked at what mygrandpa.
Did and still do.
I looked at, you know, I I'velistened to the stories of what
they told me, what they did aschildren and so forth.
and yeah, it's always beenaround offerings.
It's always been around certainlunar holidays or cycles, and
(11:00):
it's always been about food orsome type of other land-based
offering.
So maybe like in our caseequity, we also gave, you know,
flowers and such as offerings,even if they weren't meant to be
consuming them.
And then also, yeah, we can kindof weave a bit further dreams,
lots of dreams.
you know, I, I recall when I wasa child, my uncle was saying
(11:22):
that, when he was in Taiwan,because he, he, he sort of spent
half this time living there andhalf his time living here, in
Vancouver.
And so he would have thesedreams, and.
One one day he had this reallyprofound rim where, my
great-grandmother, so this wouldbe his grandmother, saying that
it was cold and damp where shewas.
And so when he woke up, heimmediately went to her grave
(11:45):
site and lo and behold it hadflooded there.
and yeah, so, I mean, how canyou not say that stuff's real,
like that stuff is real.
and yet, with more of that quoteunquote modern westernized lens
that my mother took on, she saidthat that was the devil
communicating.
Angie Yu (12:02):
Wow.
Kristy Yee (12:03):
I feel really disheartened to hear that, that
your mom made that commentbasically.
and, okay, so this is what thisis.
What's going through my mindright now.
I burn incense.
I burn joss paper.
I do offerings to my ancestors,to my dad who has passed away.
you know, and I, I believe thatthere are spirits.
(12:24):
I do, I can't, I can't expresshow I believe it, but I believe
that they exist and there's likeother beings around us and not
just what we know.
And to me, You know, going tothe cemetery, making my
offerings, like, communicatingwith my dad through prayers or
whatever it is.
(12:44):
That to me is just me hangingout with my dad.
Like, I don't even think of itas I'm going to use air quotes,
witchcraft, or, you know, devilstuff.
It's just part of my culture.
It's part of what we do.
But then if I think about itfrom a Western lens and I, and
I'm trying not to like make thisan east versus west thing, but
when I never thought of it aswitchcraft until Mimi, you just
(13:06):
use the word, which I'm like, ohright.
There's, there's that otherdefinition as well.
And it's so painted with adifferent colored brush, you
know, it feels so much moreforeign when you think about it
that way.
And it feels so much more.
Taboo when you think of it thatway, like, oh my goodness, this
is, this is the devil talking oryou're practicing witchcraft
(13:29):
versus I'm doing a culturalthing that is important to me.
And I'm just communicating withmy dad.
Mimi Young (13:35):
So, okay, so I'm going to tie this together.
talked about you're, you'rescared of that hole.
Kristy Yee (13:40):
Yeah.
Mimi Young (13:40):
So what about.
If jumping into that hole isjust about returning to what
you've always known.
Angie Yu (13:47):
uh, no wonder you've done 37 podcasts.
Mimi Young (13:55):
And I should say, words can be really cheap.
Right.
You know, like I I've, I'm sureyou've heard those expressions.
Like everybody's an artistslike, no, fuck man.
Nope.
Not everybody is an artist.
Some people are really skilledand have practiced and put in
the hours and some people justare not right.
Like they're not artistic inthat sense.
So, no, I don't believeeveryone's an artist.
(14:16):
I don't believe everyone's ahealer and all these cliche
things where all the wordsbecome meaningless because
they're, it's all overused.
Like if I'm going to startwaving, you know, like my finger
and saying everyone's a healer,everyone can perform surgery.
Like obviously not right yet,yet, yet I do believe that this
idea of returning back to thathole is everyone's right.
(14:40):
And I do believe that is how weaccess our magic.
And it is a way that is deeplyhonoring of our ancestry and
honoring the ancient ways, youknow, before, I don't know,
before modern humans fucked itall up.
Angie Yu (14:58):
Yeah.
I mean, I guess it was aroundfor thousands of years before
the, before the colonizers werelike, you know what?
We don't like what you're doing.
Mimi Young (15:06):
I mean, I, I feel, that's why we're here.
If the ancient ways weren'taround and if it didn't work,
like how on earth did humanslast, as long as we have.
And all these quote unquote newmethods, I'm not quite sure if
they're all that great.
Angie Yu (15:20):
I say that like people who are like, oh, but the
science is a science and I'mlike, no, science is science.
It's not science is science andother things.
Aren't sciences, like the wholeidea of us identifying science
as the science, Hey, that'sanother human.
Conject like, that's anotherthing that we made up.
Like, so who's to say science isall science.
(15:42):
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like it's so whenever, so forme, like, I feel pretty
disconnected from all thattraditional, like ancestral,
rituals and, you know, sweepingthe grave and such.
And I think that's because mybackground is from mainland
China and my parents grew up,were born into the cultural
revolution.
Mimi Young (16:01):
Where so much of it was eradicated.
Angie Yu (16:02):
That's right.
It was eradicated, you know,whereas Mimi you're from Taiwan,
your ancestors were able toretain a lot of that because
they didn't go through that.
And then Kristy, your ancestorswere, you know, far away from
Beijing
Kristy Yee (16:15):
yeah.
When communism started coming inthere, like.
Angie Yu (16:19):
Exactly.
Mimi Young (16:20):
Well, that's what my grandfather did.
And you know, those who remain,who are still alive or who we
have in contact with are theones that actually, um, yeah.
Who, who, who left communism
Angie Yu (16:31):
So it has a huge impact because for me, like that
is something that is a littlebit harder for me to relate to
with you guys, because it's justso foreign to me.
Like I know my grandmother doesa lot of that still.
but I know I didn't grow up withher.
And my parents, you know, theywent to university, they were
really doctrine, indoctrinatedindoctrinated, with all the, you
(16:52):
know, Western medicine, theWestern methods, because they
were pushed into university to,Hey, study science study
technology.
That is the way of the futureand they became, what I would
say is agnostic and that kinda.
Filtered down to myself as well,because when you don't grow up
with that, it's like what yousaid, you kind of become
further, further from that hole.
(17:14):
And I'm not saying that Iabsolutely do not believe in
spirits.
And I'm not saying that I dobelieve in spirits, I'm kind of
in this like open space of notreally knowing where to go, kind
of like in, in, in limbo of sortof, but also like, it's kind of
comfortable here for me becausethis is what I know, you know?
So for someone who's who, for atypical person, who's like a
(17:35):
skeptic about all this stuff,Mimi, like what would your
advice be?
Mimi Young (17:39):
I am not in the business of convincing people.
Angie Yu (17:42):
I like that.
Mimi Young (17:43):
I am.
I, what I, what I'm here to dois when the person is ready or
even just willing to haveconversations then I'm here.
And I would say this allrelates.
It might seem like I'm jumpingaround.
Um, so Angie, you had said how,you know, insert, blah, blah,
blah, is a science, like, youknow, blank is a science and how
(18:07):
in the west, there is such aneed to label things.
Um, or to draw these lines tosay, this is where this begins.
This is where that begins.
if we look to our, like thethree of like our and the, the
medicine from our end ancestry,which is TCM, um, TCM is, is all
those things, right?
It is an art, it is a science,um, when one studies TCM, not
(18:35):
necessarily here in the west,but let's say in, in, in Taiwan,
in China, they actually have tohave an understanding of chinese
esoteric practices.
They need to know, let's saywhat the wu xing are.
They need to know to a certaindegree, some baseline, a
foundation of, of the ee jingthey need to understand Chinese
astrology.
(18:55):
They need to understand lunarmedicine, because all that
actually informs anunderstanding of Herb's and
understanding of the human body,because everything has always
been seen through this lens ofart and science integrated.
So even though we call itmedicine and it is medicine here
in the west, we are franticallyin need of validating it through
the lens of science, hardscience, so to speak.
(19:18):
It's a slower way.
And of course, hard science isvalidating that acupuncture is
effective, that herbalism iseffective and all these things
actually exist.
Whereas the folks that have beenpracticing this medicine, folk
medicine, shamonic medicine,that's really what it is.They
heard it, they heard it from thespirits.
They heard it from whether it'sthe spirits of the land or
(19:39):
spirits of the ancestors.
Um, they understood it by beingaware and being in
communication.
so I would say if you'recurious, or if you're open just
start listening to startlistening to the old stories,
even if they are maybe just bydefinition, folk tales or myths.
(20:00):
Um, there's a lot of truth inthese.
And I would say if this is acomplicated conversation, right?
Because it's like, so those ofHan lineage, right?
Like Han Chinese lineage.
There is a very messy story,especially in the past hundred
or so years.
Right.
Um, that has affected the threeof us.
It's affected our parents andalso affected our grandparents.
(20:22):
And of course, you know, theyounger generations as well,
where we're really seeing theinfluence of the west in our
Homeland and to the point wherethe Homeland has denied its
roots.
Right.
And, and this is messy becauseit's just like, okay, so where
do you, how do you how do youembody, how do you get rooted in
(20:46):
to your truth?
And because so much of it ithasn't been preserved.
Then, then where do you startagain?
and I would say it's, by settingout those chopsticks.
And I talk about this and Imentorship where it's like,
yeah, you, you have to invitethe dead back to your table.
I would say that this is for allcultures, like, because all
cultures did historically dothis, maybe not with chopsticks,
(21:08):
but certainly with food.
And yeah, you invite them backto your table and you invite
them back into your dreams.
Because you're cooking anyway.
So you're eating anyway.
So it's not like it's extra workand you're, you're, you're going
to bed anyway.
So you're probably going todream anyway.
So that's not extra work.
The answer is not through buyingtaro cards or, like, you know,
(21:30):
doing like a 12 step program inlike, you know, spiritual
coaching it's by going back tothe simple things and then
starting to listen.
Kristy Yee (21:39):
Like giving ourselves permission to explore
that and be in touch with that,with that cultural side of
things again, you know, and Ithink it's incredibly sad to
think that, in our homelands,the whiteness is upon them, you
know, and, and, and
Mimi Young (21:58):
Yeah,
Kristy Yee (21:59):
how I'm envisioning is as generation goes on, if we
don't do something about it now,right.
Then we as a collective becomemore and more disconnected from
where we come from from ourroots.
And that disconnect, I think, isgoing to lead to a lot of mental
health issues cause you're notin alignment.
Mimi Young (22:20):
You will, or you'll wind up like me, you know,
jumping into the whole headfirst because you're just like,
nothing else is worth it.
Like, well, like I said, I ranout of options you know, nothing
else was working.
And I think for me it was likethis reaction, like I, you know,
like I had this longing, I hadthis longing to be home, but I
(22:43):
didn't even know what home meantand realized that it's not
really a physical home at all.
And I think that's the otherpiece it's it's...
for folks like us, because we'reactually not living on the land
that our ancestors lived on,there is a physical
disconnection, there's acellular physical disconnection.
And so we're always going to belooking for it through the
(23:04):
cells.
We're going to be looking for itby choosing terroir that is
supportive of that initialexperience.
So I think for me, because I wasborn in Taiwan, I'm always going
to be an island girl.
And I love being by mountains,trees and ocean, and like, no,
like, no wonder why I love beinghere in Vancouver too, because
(23:26):
it's mountain trees and ocean.
I couldn't not live in thePrairies.
So there's just like no way,because from a vibrational
perspective, it is not it's notcompatible with, with, with
where I was born.
And then, you know, when youstart looking at it from that
perspective, you start lookingat everything else too.
Kristy Yee (23:43):
And I think just even like what you said there,
noticing where you connect to.
Like, I have an affinity for theocean as well, and I never
thought of it as oh, it'sbecause my family is from
Guangzhou and you know, thatprovince is next to that fucking
ocean! It's a port province!
Angie Yu (24:05):
Oh my oh goodness.
Kristy Yee (24:08):
I need to be around water.
I love swimming.
For example, I need to be nearthe ocean, even when I'm
traveling.
And I go into inland for toolong, I feel uncomfortable.
Like not as a physical sickness,but just like heart.
I feel something.
It's subtle, yeah it's subtlebut it's there.
(24:28):
Yeah.
Angie Yu (24:29):
I don't know if you guys have been to, um, the
Chinese garden in Chinatown, theSun Yat Sen and garden.
So I never went there until Iwas in university.
And this was like part of myAsian studies class.
We went there on a field tripand I was like 20, and this is
great.
I took it as a GPA booster, didnot boost my GPA it's one of the
(24:49):
hardest classes ever trying toreconnect with my roots.
But I, I, the first thing I feltwhen I walked into that garden,
I just like stopped.
I couldn't walk.
I was just like hit with thisenergy because the garden is
based on the gardens of Su Zhouand my ancestors are from Su
Zhou.
So every time I feel like I amnot myself, I go to the garden
(25:14):
and it's where I feel most athome.
And I never thought about itthat way.
As in like, you're surrounded bythese elements that is deep.
Yeah.
It's like deeply in rooted.
And now that you say that I'mlike, whoa, like, that's why I
feel so connected.
It's not just because it's niceand pretty, but it's actually
because it's...
I feel so at home there that itmakes me feel like, you know,
(25:35):
that it's my home within thishome.
And it's a garden that I oftendescribe as like east within the
west.
Right.
Because it's surrounded by likeVancouver, downtown condos.
Kristy Yee (25:46):
It's literally like downtown.
Mimi Young (25:48):
Yeah.
And like cheesy hipsterbakeries.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Angie Yu (25:53):
Yeah.
And, and I feel like That's notus.
Yeah.
That's like us, right?
like within our bodies, there'sthis like garden that we
nurture.
And if you don't nurture thatgarden with all these, these,
things that we've talked about,then the garden will just die
and
Mimi Young (26:10):
Totally.
And because it's, it was modeledafter an ancient way of
gardening and working withplants.
That means it carries the wisdomof the dead.
Right.
And so it carries the wisdom ofperhaps folks that your
ancestors hung out with.
Angie Yu (26:29):
Right.
Mimi Young (26:29):
Like it is highly possible.
And that's what I mean, by thatspirit communication.
Angie Yu (26:35):
Oh I love that.
I love that.
That's spirit communication.
You know, like before today'srecording, I was going to be
like, I really want to ask herhow she talks to spirits.
Mimi Young (26:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't use a crystal ball.
It that's for sure.
Angie Yu (26:46):
But after speaking to you, I understand it's not about
talking to the dead.
It's about listening to the deadand I think that's very
powerful.
Mimi Young (26:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, you can start talking tothem once you can hear their
voices.
Um, but yeah,
Angie Yu (27:01):
For the average, for the average lay person, we can
just listen, right?
Yeah.
Mimi Young (27:06):
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
And I mean, everybody has tolisten.
There's no talking or there'snot listening.
Kristy Yee (28:12):
What I feel right now is I'm...
I don't know what this is rightnow, but I'm feeling incredibly
uplifted because I feel like I'mallowed to stop and listen and
allow to reconnect with myspirituality and my culture, and
it's okay to do that because Ifeel, I feel like a lot of
(28:32):
times, you know, because we grewup in the west and a lot of
white supremacy influences thateither just lose our practice
and lose our abilities toconnect because we're just not
doing it.
And then also, because it's kindof shamed upon, like people
think it's weird, you know, evenif it's a Chinese cultural
(28:53):
thing.
Growing up, it was already weirdto bring dumplings to school,
let alone Like you know what Imean?
Like I would never talk to myfriends about doing that stuff.
Mimi Young (29:02):
Oh, my God.
Angie Yu (29:03):
That's true.
Kristy you have, in the pastepisodes as well, hesitated to
talk about, you know, burningthe papers and the Joss joss?
Papers.
I could really see thathesitation because like you
said, it's about not givingyourself permission, which is
why, it's so good to talk aboutit.
Which is why what Mimi is doingis so important.
And like, you know, Mimi hasthis great, um, she's an
(29:26):
entrepreneur as well.
So ceremonie which is spelledwith an I E you know, she offers
these services, but she's notgoing to talk about them on the
podcast.
She's going to talk about howmuch she cares about this whole
practice and, you know, becauseit's more than about, you know,
what I'm trying to say.
Kristy Yee (29:41):
It's sharing that wisdom.
It's showing that enthusiasm.
It's, it's telling us that, Hey,it's okay to be connected to the
water, to the plants.
It's okay to allow yourself todream about your ancestors and
maybe eventually have aconversation with them.
Like that's not a weird thing.
Like embrace it.
It was always been part of ourculture, regardless if it's
(30:03):
Chinese or not, like we'respeaking from a Chinese lens
because we're Chinese right?
But like Mimi said, this hasbeen practiced throughout many,
many, many, many, many othertypes of cultures around the
world, just in differentformats.
But the core of it is respectingthe dead paying, paying tribute
to the dead, to your ancestors,being in touch with the earth,
(30:26):
with the, with the elementsaround you and allowing yourself
to feel that affinity and thenallowing yourself to be
connected to that.
Whereas in the west, it's Likeoh, that's kind of woo.
Like what's up with that.
That's not scientific, blah,blah, blah.
Like it's, it's very hard lines.
You know what I mean?
Angie Yu (30:43):
Have you guys heard of the book called the woo
Kristy Yee (30:45):
woo?
No
Angie Yu (30:46):
it's, written by a Chinese Canadian.
I think she might be ChineseCanadian.
It says the Woo Woo (30:50):
How I survive ice hockey, drug raids
demons and my crazy Chinesefamily by Lindsay Wong.
And I wanted to read it.
I really did, but the title kindof threw me off.
And I guess, I didn't know whythe title threw me off until
really until our conversationtoday.
I think because it comes fromsuch a Western lens, like, Hey,
(31:14):
check out this Chinese conceptof the woo woo and she talks
about it as a, like you said,the devil, like how I survived
it, how I survived demons and mycrazy Chinese family.
And you know, of course I'mjudging the book by its cover.
I don't actually know how,whether her stance is on being
(31:36):
pro or anti woo-hoo.
So, um, you know, for those whohave read the book, feel free to
let us know.
Kristy Yee (31:43):
But there's like negative connotations, just,
just based off of the title fromwhat it sounds like.
And then you you had, you didn'tyou didn't vibe with that kind
of energy that like negativity.
Angie Yu (31:56):
Yeah.
Like I definitely didn't want tojust criticize.
Like we already don't have thatmany books written by women of
color and women of Chinesedescent and with that like, you
know, that sounds like people weknow.
Right.
So I was like, oh, but the titlejust kept throwing me off.
Like I've already bought thebook.
I just cannot open it becauseI'm scared about what it's going
(32:19):
to say.
I'm scared that it's going to bevery anti Chinese.
Mimi Young (32:23):
I would say, give it a chance and see what happens.
I will say the word"woo woo", Idon't know how it surface in the
west as an English word, butit's, it's an ancient word in
Chinese.
Like if you think about like woopor like, woo is...
it is discussing thatintersection of shamanism,
(32:44):
witchcraft, sorcery, occulticpractice.
Like that, that word"woo" ismagic.
So I don't know if it relates tothe word Woo Woo in English,
but, but woo has existedforever.
And I think the reason why mywork has been...
like my personal work.
And then of course it translatesinto my, my, uh, my brand's
(33:07):
work, is that when we can returnto our roots, particularly folk
practices and sister practicesand customs, um, in the context
of magic and the context ofspirituality, it is an act of
decolonizing because then youstart saying like, I am Chinese,
(33:29):
and this is what we do, what wedid or what we do.
And it is it's, it's being morevisible.
Like at least it certainly wasthat way for me.
Um, especially when I firststarted my business where
honestly, every single spiritualteacher or healer out there was
practicing yoga.
And I don't think Not even oneof them was actually from Indian
(33:52):
descent.
Like, like it's just like, okay,so a bunch of people are
practicing yoga.
A bunch of white peoplepracticing yoga, um, and waving,
you know, crystal clustersaround.
It had an aesthetic, right?
Like, and it was all like peoplein their twenties.
So it was just like, okay, wellwellness means you must be
young, which to me is justreinforcing age-ism and all the
(34:14):
things that we see problematicin the fashion industry, how you
must be skinny, you have, itmust be like, you know, like all
these things.
And when we decolonize, wenaturally wind up asking that
question of, do I needpermission and realizing I don't
need permission because thatconcept permission is rooted in
enslavement.
Like what, like, fuck, I can'tmake a decision for myself?
(34:37):
I need to ask so-and-so?
Like, I need to submit a paperto the establishment and get
approval or whatever it is.
Right.
Like it's like, or I needs tosubmit it to a man?
That that equals ownership.
Like I am somebody's property.
But when you realize that you'reno one's property and that
you're no one's slave, that ideaof permission is all of a
(35:01):
sudden, no longer part of theconversation.
Kristy Yee (35:04):
Dang.
I want to take back that word
Mimi Young (35:08):
I mean, I wrote, I wrote it down on paper cause I
was like, I love how you'reusing the word permission
because it's like, it reveals somuch or reveals just how much we
have been colonized andindoctrinated.
Kristy Yee (35:20):
And how much we don't have the freedom of choice
to practice in the way that wewant to practice.
To live the way that we want tolive, to do the things that we
want to do in our own way.
Mimi Young (35:32):
Totally.
And you know, I've I've lookedat.
China so many times I've I've Idon't know about you, but it
just sort of like, what were theconditions that led to the
cultural revolution?
What were the conditions thatled to communism?
like it's, you know, one can seeit if one starts noticing.
And it was because there wasthat abuse of freedom that led
(35:55):
the whole country to crumble andresurface as nobody has freedom
anymore.
And I know what I said is very,very, um, what's the word?
Uh, probably controversial, youknow, because one, cause one can
say is, is it's a freedom tohurt people, real freedom.
Like it's, you know, like it's Iget it.
(36:19):
and really what, what thecultural revolution was a
reaction to was a lot of peoplewere on the top where very few
people are on the top and theywere abusing their freedoms.
and they, they didn't look outand you know, there was a lot
of, corruption and a lot ofnepotism and a lot of, uh, a lot
of, you know, a lot of pain forpeople who weren't in those
(36:40):
inner circles of power.
And so the cultural revolutionwas a reaction.
And it was a natural one.
and yet it gave birth to a wholeother political system, which
also has its issues too, that weknow today.
And like I said, it's, you know,even saying this out loud, is
it's, it could potentially besomething that's going to arise,
(37:02):
a strong reaction from forcertain listeners.
Because I know that I have mybias of being Taiwanese.
Um, yet I also see it happeningand here in the west, it's like,
if this continues, we areheading in the same direction,
we're already on our way there.
So it's.
But you know, we, we, that, thatmight have to be a different
(37:25):
episode altogether, um, becauseis, is rationing food and, you
know, is, is that the best wayof handling things?
I don't know.
Angie Yu (37:33):
I will say though, as someone who's, who has become
really familiar with it, thathistory is that most people who
quote unquote, I get offended byare people who haven't actually
done their research, but have anopinion on it.
I am not offended by what yousaid.
I think what you said isabsolutely true.
And I agree with that a hundredpercent, you know, I guess
(37:53):
another lesson from that islike, Hey, which is which I, I,
am a hypocrite because I justdid that with the book.
You know, I judged the book,what did I actually do my own
research?
So, you know, uh, do what I say,know what I do.
Kristy Yee (38:07):
When you call yourself out, you know,
Angie Yu (38:10):
Yeah.
Kristy Yee (38:11):
I think so we touched upon like the cultural
revolution and how that's robbedpeople who live in China from
being in tuned with theirculture.
Like that's, that's fucking whatthe cultural revolution means.
Like you take away.
Okay.
So it's been robbed and, and thepeople.
Who first experienced thatfirsthand, basically our
parents' generation, right?
(38:32):
That has a trickle effect downto us, whether or not I think
whether or not they're they livein China or, or they have come
here.
I think there has there's,there's a trickle effect down to
the next generation of what thecultural revolution has done in
ways.
And what I mean by that is likeripping us away from
understanding our own cultures,whether it's practices, whether
(38:52):
it's books, whether it'sknowledge, whatever it is.
And then we also talked abouthow colonialism did the same
thing.
They shamed and demonized otherpractices that they are not
familiar with by calling itwitchcraft by, by associating it
with the devil like evil things,right?
Like this is, this is notsomething that we talk about or
(39:13):
do know?
Angie Yu (39:14):
We're even just like identifying or pushing a
witchcraft into the category ofquote unquote bad
Mimi Young (39:22):
exactly.
Yeah.
Like I think the term isaccurate witchcraft it's it's
true, but it doesn't mean bad.
Angie Yu (39:29):
Yeah.
Because in history, likewitchcraft was something that
women did to empower themselves.
And, of course men were like,nip numbness.
We don't like, that That's bad.
Let's burn you at the stake.
Kristy Yee (39:41):
And, and like, think
Angie Yu (39:42):
Yeah.
Kristy Yee (39:42):
the other things that has also been deemed as
bad.
That really shouldn't be likeracism.
You know, we're gonna go wayback, not even way back, like 50
years back, if you are adifferent color, that's bad.
And so people try to lightentheir skin, et cetera.
If you are a certain body size,well that's bad.
(40:03):
And so then diet culturehappens.
And if you practice witchcraftwell, that's bad.
So like all of these things is,is really a control of culture.
Of controlling us as women, aspeople of color, as people who
are just non EurocentricChristians.
(40:25):
And, and that's a way that theyare taking away our freedom and
our, our way to express our owncultures.
And I think that that is, Idon't know, like, I don't know
what I think.
I it's just sad.
Right?
Like both the culturalrevolution and colonialism has
very similar effects in terms ofthe harm that it has caused us
(40:46):
and everybody else around us.
Angie Yu (40:48):
yeah,
Kristy Yee (40:49):
I don't know where I'm going with this.
I'm just expressing my thoughtsand feelings.
Angie Yu (40:53):
yeah, I was going to say, what you're saying is
basically fact doesn't mean thatwe have a solution, but, um,
yeah, only thing you can do isreally just keep talking about
it.
This, this is so funny.
Like we were expecting to learnall this stuff about
spirituality and someone is, nowwe're talking about,
Mimi Young (41:11):
About politics.
you know, why?
Because spirituality is.
And because politics is informedby spirituality, people who
start wars, they usually blameit.
Well, they don't blame it.
They justify it because God saidso.
Angie Yu (41:25):
right.
Mimi Young (41:26):
Right.
So, So, that's why we keep on goor we, I do it too.
I find everything goes back topolitics because spirituality
and politics are fairlyinterchangeable.
Kristy Yee (41:48):
Do you tell us a little bit more about dreams?
I'm curious.
Angie Yu (41:50):
Yeah.
I'm not, I know Kristy is dyingto ask you, how do I have more
lucid dreams?
Cause I, I love my dreams.
Like they're so lucid and for meit feels like I'm filing shit
away for the future.
Um, but Chris is always like,what, what?
Yeah, so.
Mimi Young (42:06):
I would say, okay, well, first of all, you know,
I've never done this on apodcast before I, I did record
an entire podcast episode aboutand dream practices on another
one.
It's called woo.
New talking about woo it's.
So funny.
W O O and then K N E w um, youcan access it through my
(42:27):
website.
I also talk about it in anarticle that I did with goop,
um, and same thing.
You could access it through mypress and podcast section on my
website and just click on thegoop, uh, photo.
Um, and that would take you tothe article, but just so that we
can talk about it here, I wouldsay it's really important to
(42:48):
view your dream.
As your allies like to view thatmedium as a friend or a group of
friends and begin.
Um, the idea of going to sleepas you would, when you're
getting ready to meet yourfriends.
So I typically shower before Isee my friends and make sure I
(43:09):
have good breath.
So, you know, hygiene isimportant, which means if you're
thinking, thinking, thinking,doing, doing, doing, watching
Netflix to write to the minutethat you go to bed, you're not
going to have a really cleanconversation in your dream.
So making sure that dreamhygiene there is isn't there.
Cause you're, you're going to bemeeting with friends second,
have an intention.
(43:30):
Like why are you meeting withyour friends?
You're going to go for a jogtogether.
Are you going to go for lunch?
Are you going to, you know,gossip about someone have that
intention there?
Just kidding what the last one,but you know what I mean?
And then, yeah.
And then go go to bed.
You know, that intention isimportant because essentially
(43:50):
you're casting that dreams.
So when you're in your dream,then you can be conscious
whether if it is, you're tryingto sort out something that's
been bothering you, or you wantto maybe connect with an
ancestor.
Um, and it really does work whenyou go in with that, that
hygiene in place and thatintention, um, and it doesn't
(44:10):
have to be necessarily for theintention, dreaming.
It could be for the intention,any type of thing that you would
like to see experience, or maybehelp support like a resolution
towards, in a dream.
Um, but yeah, that really helps.
And sometimes, you know, you caneither say it or you can just
write it on a sheet of paper,and then maybe place it under
your pillow or something, ornext to your bed, um, and then
(44:32):
go to sleep.
And then there's some alliesthat are really helpful.
Some plant allies.
I.
I'd like to work with mugwort.
which of course is, you know,part of our culture.
It's part of many cultures,actually.
There's many different types ofmugwort that exist.
there there's one key, one thatexists sort of in, you know,
are.
from a culture perspective is amugwort that is often found in
(44:54):
like moxa or, other forms of,TCM based practices.
But, but yeah, McGuire, it'sreally great.
you can make it, you know, like,uh, you don't have to make a
strong tea, but you can make,uh, like a herbal tea with
either dried or fresh mugwort.
And have a sit before bed andactually talk to the tea, talk
to before going to bed with thesame idea.
(45:15):
So you've, you've done yourhygiene.
You've, you know, speak with herwith that intention and then ask
her to.
Almost behave like aninterpreter between the dream
itself and you, or if it's notinterpreter kind of like a
bridge, like she'll be a bit ofthat conduit that, that
mediator, uh, really, reallyhelpful.
(45:35):
And if you're not interested in,you know, drinking a tea and of
course I have to say this justfor legality, like consult with
your herbalists before consumingany plant.
But if you're not interested inthat, I do have a mist that's on
my website.
It's called the astral dream MISthat contains a high
concentration of mugwort thatyou can basically missed your
(45:56):
bed and miss your aura, and thengo to sleep with that intention
of having some form ofcommunication with spirits while
you're dreaming.
Kristy Yee (46:06):
I did not expect like a, here are the steps did
great.
That's so great because I alwaysbeen saying like, okay, I need
to stop watching my YouTube allthe way until the minute I pass
out, you know, like I have that,I want to do that.
Right.
But then every night I don't,every night, I'm still back on
the YouTube and I'm still doingmy thing until I pass out.
(46:28):
And, and, and sometimes that'sbecause I'm going through
depression and I just need thatoutlet.
And I need that extra kick ofwhatever it is.
And sometimes it's just habit.
Right.
And, and it doesn't, it doesn'tever feel good.
It's not like, Ooh, I feel sorefresh after watching like two
hours of YouTube.
Mimi Young (46:49):
Well, well, this is the thing.
So I mean, want to get science-ythere's serotonin and dopamine
sounds like you really likeddopamine and they have like
that, that dependency ondopamine, but really what's
going to help, with maintaininga more regulated brain.
Including moods regulated moodsis to really create a space more
(47:13):
for a serotonin cultivation,serotonin takes more time.
And it's more of that long formof building.
So build reward systems andpleasure systems that is more
around discipline, such ascreating some dream hygiene.
Cause like most of us, like, atleast when I meet with my
friends, like, I'm not justlike, you know, Going from work
(47:36):
to friends.
Like I usually, there's usuallya bathroom trip along the way
where I like clean my teeth andlike, make sure that I'm, I'm
presented not from a, a shameperspective, but just out of
respect for the other person orif they're coming over, which
maybe it's not happening so muchright now, still as we're
opening up from COVID.
But at least before you cleanyour house, right?
(47:57):
Like you, like, you clean yourhome and like you put out food
that is not leftover.
Do you make new food?
Like you, you put your, yourbetter foot forward, same thing
with dreams.
And same thing with buildingserotonin.
Kristy Yee (48:09):
I think like all of that stuff that you said, you
know, making sure you, you dressnice, you keep your hygiene, you
clean your house.
That is also comes from like usbuilding an environment that
feels good for us.
Because I want to engage with myfriends.
I'm going to create a space andan environment where they feel
good and I feel good so that wecan all have a good time.
And I think you're totallyright.
I think there's a lot of folkswho don't do enough of that
(48:32):
before their bedtime ritual andmyself included.
And I am so much more motivatednow.
Mimi Young (48:38):
Yeah, it's investing in you and it's investing in a
relationship with the unseen
Kristy Yee (48:43):
Holy shit.
That's so, That's
Angie Yu (48:45):
Yeah.
And, you know, like for those ofus who are obsessed with Sage,
you now have a woman of color tosupport rather than Sage.
So there you go.
And that's that's me also.
Kristy Yee (49:00):
I have too much Sage.
Oh my goodness.
Okay.
I do want to wrap up for ourconversation today.
How are you feeling Mimi?
Mimi Young (49:07):
I'm feeling great.
I, I loved how, yeah.
I loved how, we just chatted andwe, we covered a lot.
Kristy Yee (49:13):
I think so too.
I never would have expectedagain, that we would talk about
colonialism and the culturalrevolution and the social
justice and political aspects ofthings.
And feel like, I, feel like, I'mready and I want to embrace my
own culture and my roots and myown spirituality a lot more
after this conversation.
(49:34):
So thank you so much, maybe.
Mimi Young (49:36):
I am so thrilled to hear that.
Angie Yu (49:39):
Aw, you guys.
Kristy Yee (49:44):
Come into the mush with us, feel, feel the things.
I do want to ask you one morequestion for our listeners.
If anyone of you, poop, troopsfelt similar that you want to
open up and be more in touchwith your own spirituality side.
Any, any tips for our listenerson how they can start that
practice.
Mimi Young (50:04):
Returned to food.
I would say what your parents,what your grandparents, what
your great, great, what yourgreat grandparents ate.
food carries very healingvibrations, and if you're open
to it, uh, they have their ownvoices to the dishes.
So that's number one.
I talked about the dreamsalready.
Yeah.
(50:24):
And work with folks that havedone this kind of work.
So they know what that terrainlooks like.
Um, you know, I never make sensefor someone to let's say, learn
Chinese astrology from a whiteperson.
Like really, you think that's agood idea.
I don't.
Kristy Yee (50:42):
I don't want to shit on people even like TMC.
I,
Mimi Young (50:45):
I have very strong opinions.
I will not go to someone who isnot a Chinese lineage, for
acupuncture or any type of, youknow, traditional Chinese
herbalism.
It just doesn't make sense.
Kristy Yee (50:58):
I tried it, it, it didn't, it, it, felt different
if I go to TMC and I need to,you know, get some herbs and
like make some tea.
Right.
I'm going to the 70 year oldgrandma, grandpa
Mimi Young (51:12):
totally, exactly.
And you know, you really noticea difference, right?
Like if I go to one of thoselike clinics that have, you
know, orchids in the foyer andbeautiful spa music playing, and
then I go in and the doctormight feel my pulse might, and
then they ask me.
Like 12 questions.
(51:32):
Whereas I go to mine, shedoesn't ask me any questions.
She tells me to stick out mytongue and she feels my pulse
and she knows everything.
She needs to know.
She doesn't ask questions,barely talks to me, but she
knows exactly what to do.
(51:54):
Well.
I mean, the body is intuitiveand they know that they know
that it's not only intuitive,but there's records in our pulse
there's records.
Like w this is several years agonow I was traveling to visit
family in Taiwan.
And I went to a TCM doctor thereand very, very old man, um,
(52:14):
spoke very thick Taiwanese, andI don't speak Taiwanese but I
understand how he needs, but itwas so thick that it was just a
little bit hard to understand.
He felt my pulse.
And he said right away, he saidyou were born through a
C-section.
You have gut issues?
Like I was like, like, how onearth?
I'm see anything.
(52:35):
I swore he was psychic.
But the thing is, this is whenart and science or magic and
science are the same.
Angie Yu (52:43):
Wow.
Wait, is that, is that a thing?
If you're born through C-sectionyou have gut issues?
Cause I have gut issues and Iwas born through
Mimi Young (52:50):
Yeah.
Well, supposedly it later on, Iactually did some research on
this it's because if you wereborn through C-section
oftentimes the mother's givenantibiotics
Angie Yu (53:00):
um,
Mimi Young (53:02):
the
Kristy Yee (53:03):
colonies that is in your own gut afterwards.
Yeah.
And because you're also notpassing through the vaginal
canal, you're also not beingexposed as too many bacteria
cultures through the vaginalcanal as, you know?
Yeah.
So you basically missed out onthe bacterial exposure through
vagina.
Angie Yu (53:20):
yeah.
So that's the science and theart is putting your finger on a
random person in a person's pawsand be like, you ever have a
C-section and you have gutissues.
Yeah.
Mimi Young (53:31):
Totally.
I mean, I was just so blown awaybecause, and the fact that they
can feel and hear the nuances,and that's the kind of listening
I'm talking about.
It's not like a doctor hearsthings in that literal very
obvious way.
Same thing with spiritcommunication.
It's very subtle.
Kristy Yee (53:48):
Yeah.
Mimi Young (53:49):
the minute you say, I don't think that was real.
It's gone.
Kristy Yee (53:52):
Mm.
Mimi Young (53:52):
You have to say, I'm going to trust that even though
it was just a faint whisper.
Kristy Yee (53:58):
So I started doing that.
I started having doubts and thenI started to not feel as much
things anymore.
And I think that's because Istudy science, I am a dietitan I
went through, I did the whitepeople, university stuff, you
know, and, and I started havingsort of having the doubts and I
(54:19):
feel, I feel like that made meme misaligned with a part of my
body.
And through this conversationtoday, I think I want to pay
more attention to those, thosethings again, and be more
accepting and be more open aboutthat.
I do want to put out a littlecaveat for people who have went
through a C-section have gonethrough a C-section.
This is no shame for people whohave gone through a C-section.
(54:40):
Okay.
Don't feel bad.
Like this is you, you freakingmade a human in your body.
And so you want to bring it outto this world in the safest,
most possible way.
And sometimes a C-section iswhat you have to do to do that,
to protect yourself and yourchild.
Mimi Young (54:55):
I mean, I'm sure angie and I, we can both confirm
that that was the only way forus to be born given the
circumstances, right?
Kristy Yee (55:03):
Mimi, thank you so much for hanging out with us and
sharing your wisdom.
And I just feel like I talk somuch.
so
Mimi Young (55:11):
Oh, good, good,
Kristy Yee (55:12):
where can our listeners find You
Mimi Young (55:14):
You can find me on my website, which is shop
ceremony.com.
Ceremony is spelled with an I Eat the end.
They can also find me on samehandle shop ceremony and if you
go onto my website, there'susually sort of a list of
upcoming and offerings and soforth, but there's a fair amount
of content.
You know, my monthly magazine,there's a blog.
(55:37):
and yeah, like extensiveinformation and access to other
podcasts.
I've been on
Kristy Yee (55:42):
Lots of good stuff.
So we will link all of those inthe show notes, including the
goop article that you hadmentioned, as well as the who
knew yes.
The wound new podcast episode.
So we'll link all of that foryou guys to listen thank you
again.
Mimi Young (55:58):
Thank you for having me.
This is so funny.
Like we were expecting to learnall this stuff about
spirituality and someone is, nowwe're talking about,
Mimi Young (00:08):
About politics.
you know, why?
Because spirituality is.
And because politics is informedby spirituality, people who
start wars, they usually blameit.
Well, they don't blame it.
They justify it because God saidso.
Angie Yu (00:22):
right.
Mimi Young (00:23):
Right.
So, So, that's why we keep on goor we, I do it too.
I find everything goes back topolitics because spirituality
and politics are fairlyinterchangeable.
Kristy Yee (01:00):
Welcome back to another episode of shit we don't
tell mom where we getcomfortable with the
uncomfortable today.
We have Mimi young joining usfrom all the way from Vancouver
Mimi is a Han TaiwaneseCanadian.
She is a mama of two, a tealover.
She's a bibliophile.
She is a lucid dreamer, which issomething that I would love to
(01:21):
learn to be better at.
Maybe you have some tips for me.
she also loves house and technoand what's super cool is she's
also a spirit communicator and ashamanistic, occultist.
I think that's how you say it.
occultist.
Thank you for nodding.
She's also the founder ofceremony and esoteric brand
focusing on imparting ancientand practical wisdom so that her
(01:44):
clients can break out ofnegative patterns from spirits
and healing energies.
Mimi works with core shamanismand ancestral wisdom, dream
work, chaos magik with a K atthe end and other Chinese mystic
practices.
And to communicate with theunseen offering education,
mentorship, private readings,and skin and aura care.
(02:05):
Welcome Mimi to the show.
Mimi Young (02:08):
Thank you so much for having me.
Kristy Yee (02:11):
All these things that we were just talking about,
all of the spiritual listicthings that you are working on,
that you are involved in.
I've always been very curiousabout the unseen world.
But yet I am, it makes meuncomfortable and makes me a
little bit scared.
You know, it's, it's likelooking into a hole that without
(02:32):
knowing what's on the other endof it, but you're curious.
So those are, those are how Ifeel about like the unseen world
and spiritual ism.
First of all, how did you getinto this?
Mimi Young (02:43):
I would say that I started a lot feeling the way
you did or you still do.
and yeah, I jumped in the hole
Angie Yu (02:51):
you saw the uncertainty and you're like,
hello, you didn't dip your toesin.
You just dive bread.
You just dove.
Right.
Mimi Young (03:00):
I mean, when I was very, very young, I was very
connected and aware that,spirits were around me.
yeah, I could hear plants forinstance.
They're definitely my earliest,you know, form of friendships.
and, and yeah, like it's just,you know, as one grows up in the
(03:20):
kind of world that we live in,perhaps some of it, you know,
culture and religion play a bitof a role.
but just the greater society.
It's, it's not something that istalked about is not something
that is encouraged.
Unless there's that additionaltypecast, right?
Like that, oh, that that's,that's weird or all these
additional stereotypes that'sassociated with mediumship or
(03:42):
spirit communication or magicand, you know, shamonic work.
so yeah, it, it did go godormant for a really long time.
it would sort of rear its headover.
So often it did a bit when I wasa teenager and I would start
psychic smelling things.
So smell things that were notthere, but it meant like the
smells or the sense carriedmessages.
(04:02):
But yeah, ultimately how I gotinto this was because I decided
to, you know, go head first intothe hole.
and really it was because I ranout of options.
I, you know, I tried everythingelse and nothing else was
working.
So I thought, well, I've alreadylost all of it.
So, you know, it's not going,I'm not going to lose anything
else.
so I jumped.
Kristy Yee (04:22):
what do you mean by you've already lost all of it.
Mimi Young (04:26):
Yeah, So I lost my sense of safety.
I lost my identity.
I lost my idea of what lovemeant I lost, you know, like
success on a, like on paper,everything I had it all, but
none of it meant a thingultimately.
And, every rule that I followedthat carried the promise that I
would live like a happy,fulfilling wondrous life was I
(04:49):
like, none of it was true.
and I think the best way toexplain it was I was living a
life of very staple boredom.
but it's like the kind ofboredom.
Actually deeply painful.
Like it's like a, it, you know,it really aroused those extra
existential questions of like,why am I even here?
(05:09):
What's the point of even beingalive?
do I really have to do thisuntil I'm 90?
Like, you know, and it couldhave been any day.
It could have been any month,but I already knew what was
planned.
I already knew what I had to dofor work.
I already knew, you know, whenmy paycheck would come in, which
was a very handsome one, Ialready knew how I was going to
spend it in terms of vacationsand coffees and clothes and all
(05:32):
these things.
And I was just really notinterested in any of it anymore.
I felt like I was a ghostessentially.
Like I was this, this shell of aperson on the outside that
maybe, had it all so to speak.
And yet I didn't have that.
Kristy Yee (05:52):
It was like, you had it all from what others tell you
that you should have, but on theinside you were just empty
because it wasn't what youwanted.
Angie Yu (06:02):
Yeah, it was on someone else's terms, which is
not what you'd want.
Right.
Mimi Young (06:05):
Totally.
And I mean, I w I was thecliched good Chinese daughter.
Like, it's so funny that like,you know the name of your
podcast.
It's like, oh yeah, look,there's a lot of shit to tell
you for sure.
Kristy Yee (06:24):
Let's go into that.
What was mom's reaction when youmade this switch?
Mimi Young (06:31):
Oh, well of course he didn't like it.
I mean, So I I'm, I'm I mean I'mthe first born, and with it,
there's all sorts ofexpectations around being, you
know, the first born Chinesedaughter, from, you know, the
relationship with siblings andthe obligations that one has to
take with siblings, to caringfor the family, you know,
(06:53):
parents, elders, and so forth,being constantly available,
doing it with a smile on yourface.
and yeah, my mom's anevangelical Christian.
So, you know, in addition to theculture that, I, I live in
there's this additional layer ofreligion, and particularly one
that is rooted in obedience andnot questioning and following
(07:18):
the rules because the rules aremeant to protect you or lead you
to this life of reward.
And in the case of, the, thesort of churches that I attended
the reward was was, you know,it's in heaven, which means that
you're not really gonna see thereward until you're dead, which,
you know, takes an immenseamount of patience and faith.
and, and yeah, so, so there'sall that layered into it.
Kristy Yee (07:42):
did she knew that you were, I don't even know if
these are the right terms, soplease correct me like
spiritually gifted since youwere a child.
Cause you mentioned like you've,you've always had.
Mimi Young (07:52):
Yeah, she would, especially like when she stepped
into like, so she stepped intothe church when I was in, you
know yeah.
Like junior high liquid ormiddle school in per for
listeners who may not befamiliar with what junior high
means.
so like around like grade grade,seven grade eight ish.
and you know, from that pointon, she would say things like,
(08:14):
oh, it was like God's way orlike the holy Spirit's way to
talk to me.
Yet.
So many of my quote unquotegiftings was not what was
discussed in the Bible ordiscussed on the pulpit.
So it was always likeencouraging me to find other
ways to speak to the Lord, thatwere more acceptable.
Like maybe through prayer ormaybe through, through.
(08:38):
Other mediums that wasn'tnecessarily through, let's say
psychic scent or, or, or soforth.
it was always sort of seenthrough that filter.
and then when I said, no, mom,I'm not even communicating with
Jesus.
Like, I'm definitely notcommunicating with Jesus.
I'm communicating with deadpeople.
I'm communication with plants,I'm communicating with animals.
that, that was really upsetting.
(08:58):
I think it was upsetting for herbecause she, by then genuinely
believed that what I was doingwas evil, even though
ancestrally it's what, you know,our culture, we've always done
that.
Like, I mean, when you thinkabout, let's say, the lunar new
year, it's always aboutancestral reverence.
So it was always about thiscontinuity of cycles.
people that came before us andthe people who came before them
(09:18):
and so forth, and always goesback to the land.
Like what I was believing, I wasreally by technical definition,
I was just being, and living myculture.
Angie Yu (09:27):
Yeah.
Well, I'm listening to you.
I feel this sort of you'restirring up the ancestral
connection that I feel like whenyou're talking about this, all I
can think about is like thethings that I used to see my
grandmother do, you know,putting out food for those who
are not there.
And even back then, my uncle wasthe first to.
(09:49):
Immigrate out of our Homeland,our ancestral land.
And she will use to put out apair of chopsticks and a bowl of
rice for him during every singlebig occasion.
And to me that I haven't thoughtabout that for a really long
time, until what you just said.
Now, I feel this immediately byhearing what you talk about and
(10:09):
about how like, Hey, this hasbeen a part of our culture for
so long.
Like immediately I made thatconnection and that that's an
incredible feeling.
Mimi Young (10:18):
I mean, it's, it's so funny when people think like,
you know, when you are a witch,so to speak that you have to go
to this far away place and beordained and have this huge
epiphany.
for me, yes.
In some ways I did have anepiphany, it was like really
profound.
but it was also a series ofsmall things that, yeah, like
(10:39):
you, like, I did the same.
I, I looked to what my mum didbefore she entered the church.
I looked, I looked at what mygrandpa.
Did and still do.
I looked at, you know, I I'velistened to the stories of what
they told me, what they did aschildren and so forth.
and yeah, it's always beenaround offerings.
It's always been around certainlunar holidays or cycles, and
(11:00):
it's always been about food orsome type of other land-based
offering.
So maybe like in our caseequity, we also gave, you know,
flowers and such as offerings,even if they weren't meant to be
consuming them.
And then also, yeah, we can kindof weave a bit further dreams,
lots of dreams.
you know, I, I recall when I wasa child, my uncle was saying
(11:22):
that, when he was in Taiwan,because he, he, he sort of spent
half this time living there andhalf his time living here, in
Vancouver.
And so he would have thesedreams, and.
One one day he had this reallyprofound rim where, my
great-grandmother, so this wouldbe his grandmother, saying that
it was cold and damp where shewas.
And so when he woke up, heimmediately went to her grave
(11:45):
site and lo and behold it hadflooded there.
and yeah, so, I mean, how canyou not say that stuff's real,
like that stuff is real.
and yet, with more of that quoteunquote modern westernized lens
that my mother took on, she saidthat that was the devil
communicating.
Angie Yu (12:02):
Wow.
Kristy Yee (12:03):
I feel really disheartened to hear that, that
your mom made that commentbasically.
and, okay, so this is what thisis.
What's going through my mindright now.
I burn incense.
I burn joss paper.
I do offerings to my ancestors,to my dad who has passed away.
you know, and I, I believe thatthere are spirits.
(12:24):
I do, I can't, I can't expresshow I believe it, but I believe
that they exist and there's likeother beings around us and not
just what we know.
And to me, You know, going tothe cemetery, making my
offerings, like, communicatingwith my dad through prayers or
whatever it is.
(12:44):
That to me is just me hangingout with my dad.
Like, I don't even think of itas I'm going to use air quotes,
witchcraft, or, you know, devilstuff.
It's just part of my culture.
It's part of what we do.
But then if I think about itfrom a Western lens and I, and
I'm trying not to like make thisan east versus west thing, but
when I never thought of it aswitchcraft until Mimi, you just
(13:06):
use the word, which I'm like, ohright.
There's, there's that otherdefinition as well.
And it's so painted with adifferent colored brush, you
know, it feels so much moreforeign when you think about it
that way.
And it feels so much more.
Taboo when you think of it thatway, like, oh my goodness, this
is, this is the devil talking oryou're practicing witchcraft
(13:29):
versus I'm doing a culturalthing that is important to me.
And I'm just communicating withmy dad.
Mimi Young (13:35):
So, okay, so I'm going to tie this together.
talked about you're, you'rescared of that hole.
Kristy Yee (13:40):
Yeah.
Mimi Young (13:40):
So what about.
If jumping into that hole isjust about returning to what
you've always known.
Angie Yu (13:47):
uh, no wonder you've done 37 podcasts.
Mimi Young (13:55):
And I should say, words can be really cheap.
Right.
You know, like I I've, I'm sureyou've heard those expressions.
Like everybody's an artistslike, no, fuck man.
Nope.
Not everybody is an artist.
Some people are really skilledand have practiced and put in
the hours and some people justare not right.
Like they're not artistic inthat sense.
So, no, I don't believeeveryone's an artist.
(14:16):
I don't believe everyone's ahealer and all these cliche
things where all the wordsbecome meaningless because
they're, it's all overused.
Like if I'm going to startwaving, you know, like my finger
and saying everyone's a healer,everyone can perform surgery.
Like obviously not right yet,yet, yet I do believe that this
idea of returning back to thathole is everyone's right.
(14:40):
And I do believe that is how weaccess our magic.
And it is a way that is deeplyhonoring of our ancestry and
honoring the ancient ways, youknow, before, I don't know,
before modern humans fucked itall up.
Angie Yu (14:58):
Yeah.
I mean, I guess it was aroundfor thousands of years before
the, before the colonizers werelike, you know what?
We don't like what you're doing.
Mimi Young (15:06):
I mean, I, I feel, that's why we're here.
If the ancient ways weren'taround and if it didn't work,
like how on earth did humanslast, as long as we have.
And all these quote unquote newmethods, I'm not quite sure if
they're all that great.
Angie Yu (15:20):
I say that like people who are like, oh, but the
science is a science and I'mlike, no, science is science.
It's not science is science andother things.
Aren't sciences, like the wholeidea of us identifying science
as the science, Hey, that'sanother human.
Conject like, that's anotherthing that we made up.
Like, so who's to say science isall science.
(15:42):
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like it's so whenever, so forme, like, I feel pretty
disconnected from all thattraditional, like ancestral,
rituals and, you know, sweepingthe grave and such.
And I think that's because mybackground is from mainland
China and my parents grew up,were born into the cultural
revolution.
Mimi Young (16:01):
Where so much of it was eradicated.
Angie Yu (16:02):
That's right.
It was eradicated, you know,whereas Mimi you're from Taiwan,
your ancestors were able toretain a lot of that because
they didn't go through that.
And then Kristy, your ancestorswere, you know, far away from
Beijing
Kristy Yee (16:15):
yeah.
When communism started coming inthere, like.
Angie Yu (16:19):
Exactly.
Mimi Young (16:20):
Well, that's what my grandfather did.
And you know, those who remain,who are still alive or who we
have in contact with are theones that actually, um, yeah.
Who, who, who left communism
Angie Yu (16:31):
So it has a huge impact because for me, like that
is something that is a littlebit harder for me to relate to
with you guys, because it's justso foreign to me.
Like I know my grandmother doesa lot of that still.
but I know I didn't grow up withher.
And my parents, you know, theywent to university, they were
really doctrine, indoctrinatedindoctrinated, with all the, you
(16:52):
know, Western medicine, theWestern methods, because they
were pushed into university to,Hey, study science study
technology.
That is the way of the futureand they became, what I would
say is agnostic and that kinda.
Filtered down to myself as well,because when you don't grow up
with that, it's like what yousaid, you kind of become
further, further from that hole.
(17:14):
And I'm not saying that Iabsolutely do not believe in
spirits.
And I'm not saying that I dobelieve in spirits, I'm kind of
in this like open space of notreally knowing where to go, kind
of like in, in, in limbo of sortof, but also like, it's kind of
comfortable here for me becausethis is what I know, you know?
So for someone who's who, for atypical person, who's like a
(17:35):
skeptic about all this stuff,Mimi, like what would your
advice be?
Mimi Young (17:39):
I am not in the business of convincing people.
Angie Yu (17:42):
I like that.
Mimi Young (17:43):
I am.
I, what I, what I'm here to dois when the person is ready or
even just willing to haveconversations then I'm here.
And I would say this allrelates.
It might seem like I'm jumpingaround.
Um, so Angie, you had said how,you know, insert, blah, blah,
blah, is a science, like, youknow, blank is a science and how
(18:07):
in the west, there is such aneed to label things.
Um, or to draw these lines tosay, this is where this begins.
This is where that begins.
if we look to our, like thethree of like our and the, the
medicine from our end ancestry,which is TCM, um, TCM is, is all
those things, right?
It is an art, it is a science,um, when one studies TCM, not
(18:35):
necessarily here in the west,but let's say in, in, in Taiwan,
in China, they actually have tohave an understanding of chinese
esoteric practices.
They need to know, let's saywhat the wu xing are.
They need to know to a certaindegree, some baseline, a
foundation of, of the ee jingthey need to understand Chinese
astrology.
(18:55):
They need to understand lunarmedicine, because all that
actually informs anunderstanding of Herb's and
understanding of the human body,because everything has always
been seen through this lens ofart and science integrated.
So even though we call itmedicine and it is medicine here
in the west, we are franticallyin need of validating it through
the lens of science, hardscience, so to speak.
(19:18):
It's a slower way.
And of course, hard science isvalidating that acupuncture is
effective, that herbalism iseffective and all these things
actually exist.
Whereas the folks that have beenpracticing this medicine, folk
medicine, shamonic medicine,that's really what it is.They
heard it, they heard it from thespirits.
They heard it from whether it'sthe spirits of the land or
(19:39):
spirits of the ancestors.
Um, they understood it by beingaware and being in
communication.
so I would say if you'recurious, or if you're open just
start listening to startlistening to the old stories,
even if they are maybe just bydefinition, folk tales or myths.
(20:00):
Um, there's a lot of truth inthese.
And I would say if this is acomplicated conversation, right?
Because it's like, so those ofHan lineage, right?
Like Han Chinese lineage.
There is a very messy story,especially in the past hundred
or so years.
Right.
Um, that has affected the threeof us.
It's affected our parents andalso affected our grandparents.
(20:22):
And of course, you know, theyounger generations as well,
where we're really seeing theinfluence of the west in our
Homeland and to the point wherethe Homeland has denied its
roots.
Right.
And, and this is messy becauseit's just like, okay, so where
do you, how do you how do youembody, how do you get rooted in
(20:46):
to your truth?
And because so much of it ithasn't been preserved.
Then, then where do you startagain?
and I would say it's, by settingout those chopsticks.
And I talk about this and Imentorship where it's like,
yeah, you, you have to invitethe dead back to your table.
I would say that this is for allcultures, like, because all
cultures did historically dothis, maybe not with chopsticks,
(21:08):
but certainly with food.
And yeah, you invite them backto your table and you invite
them back into your dreams.
Because you're cooking anyway.
So you're eating anyway.
So it's not like it's extra workand you're, you're, you're going
to bed anyway.
So you're probably going todream anyway.
So that's not extra work.
The answer is not through buyingtaro cards or, like, you know,
(21:30):
doing like a 12 step program inlike, you know, spiritual
coaching it's by going back tothe simple things and then
starting to listen.
Kristy Yee (21:39):
Like giving ourselves permission to explore
that and be in touch with that,with that cultural side of
things again, you know, and Ithink it's incredibly sad to
think that, in our homelands,the whiteness is upon them, you
know, and, and, and
Mimi Young (21:58):
Yeah,
Kristy Yee (21:59):
how I'm envisioning is as generation goes on, if we
don't do something about it now,right.
Then we as a collective becomemore and more disconnected from
where we come from from ourroots.
And that disconnect, I think, isgoing to lead to a lot of mental
health issues cause you're notin alignment.
Mimi Young (22:20):
You will, or you'll wind up like me, you know,
jumping into the whole headfirst because you're just like,
nothing else is worth it.
Like, well, like I said, I ranout of options you know, nothing
else was working.
And I think for me it was likethis reaction, like I, you know,
like I had this longing, I hadthis longing to be home, but I
(22:43):
didn't even know what home meantand realized that it's not
really a physical home at all.
And I think that's the otherpiece it's it's...
for folks like us, because we'reactually not living on the land
that our ancestors lived on,there is a physical
disconnection, there's acellular physical disconnection.
And so we're always going to belooking for it through the
(23:04):
cells.
We're going to be looking for itby choosing terroir that is
supportive of that initialexperience.
So I think for me, because I wasborn in Taiwan, I'm always going
to be an island girl.
And I love being by mountains,trees and ocean, and like, no,
like, no wonder why I love beinghere in Vancouver too, because
(23:26):
it's mountain trees and ocean.
I couldn't not live in thePrairies.
So there's just like no way,because from a vibrational
perspective, it is not it's notcompatible with, with, with
where I was born.
And then, you know, when youstart looking at it from that
perspective, you start lookingat everything else too.
Kristy Yee (23:43):
And I think just even like what you said there,
noticing where you connect to.
Like, I have an affinity for theocean as well, and I never
thought of it as oh, it'sbecause my family is from
Guangzhou and you know, thatprovince is next to that fucking
ocean! It's a port province!
Angie Yu (24:05):
Oh my oh goodness.
Kristy Yee (24:08):
I need to be around water.
I love swimming.
For example, I need to be nearthe ocean, even when I'm
traveling.
And I go into inland for toolong, I feel uncomfortable.
Like not as a physical sickness,but just like heart.
I feel something.
It's subtle, yeah it's subtlebut it's there.
(24:28):
Yeah.
Angie Yu (24:29):
I don't know if you guys have been to, um, the
Chinese garden in Chinatown, theSun Yat Sen and garden.
So I never went there until Iwas in university.
And this was like part of myAsian studies class.
We went there on a field tripand I was like 20, and this is
great.
I took it as a GPA booster, didnot boost my GPA it's one of the
(24:49):
hardest classes ever trying toreconnect with my roots.
But I, I, the first thing I feltwhen I walked into that garden,
I just like stopped.
I couldn't walk.
I was just like hit with thisenergy because the garden is
based on the gardens of Su Zhouand my ancestors are from Su
Zhou.
So every time I feel like I amnot myself, I go to the garden
(25:14):
and it's where I feel most athome.
And I never thought about itthat way.
As in like, you're surrounded bythese elements that is deep.
Yeah.
It's like deeply in rooted.
And now that you say that I'mlike, whoa, like, that's why I
feel so connected.
It's not just because it's niceand pretty, but it's actually
because it's...
I feel so at home there that itmakes me feel like, you know,
(25:35):
that it's my home within thishome.
And it's a garden that I oftendescribe as like east within the
west.
Right.
Because it's surrounded by likeVancouver, downtown condos.
Kristy Yee (25:46):
It's literally like downtown.
Mimi Young (25:48):
Yeah.
And like cheesy hipsterbakeries.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Angie Yu (25:53):
Yeah.
And, and I feel like That's notus.
Yeah.
That's like us, right?
like within our bodies, there'sthis like garden that we
nurture.
And if you don't nurture thatgarden with all these, these,
things that we've talked about,then the garden will just die
and
Mimi Young (26:10):
Totally.
And because it's, it was modeledafter an ancient way of
gardening and working withplants.
That means it carries the wisdomof the dead.
Right.
And so it carries the wisdom ofperhaps folks that your
ancestors hung out with.
Angie Yu (26:29):
Right.
Mimi Young (26:29):
Like it is highly possible.
And that's what I mean, by thatspirit communication.
Angie Yu (26:35):
Oh I love that.
I love that.
That's spirit communication.
You know, like before today'srecording, I was going to be
like, I really want to ask herhow she talks to spirits.
Mimi Young (26:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't use a crystal ball.
It that's for sure.
Angie Yu (26:46):
But after speaking to you, I understand it's not about
talking to the dead.
It's about listening to the deadand I think that's very
powerful.
Mimi Young (26:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, you can start talking tothem once you can hear their
voices.
Um, but yeah,
Angie Yu (27:01):
For the average, for the average lay person, we can
just listen, right?
Yeah.
Mimi Young (27:06):
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
And I mean, everybody has tolisten.
There's no talking or there'snot listening.
Kristy Yee (28:12):
What I feel right now is I'm...
I don't know what this is rightnow, but I'm feeling incredibly
uplifted because I feel like I'mallowed to stop and listen and
allow to reconnect with myspirituality and my culture, and
it's okay to do that because Ifeel, I feel like a lot of
(28:32):
times, you know, because we grewup in the west and a lot of
white supremacy influences thateither just lose our practice
and lose our abilities toconnect because we're just not
doing it.
And then also, because it's kindof shamed upon, like people
think it's weird, you know, evenif it's a Chinese cultural
(28:53):
thing.
Growing up, it was already weirdto bring dumplings to school,
let alone Like you know what Imean?
Like I would never talk to myfriends about doing that stuff.
Mimi Young (29:02):
Oh, my God.
Angie Yu (29:03):
That's true.
Kristy you have, in the pastepisodes as well, hesitated to
talk about, you know, burningthe papers and the Joss joss?
Papers.
I could really see thathesitation because like you
said, it's about not givingyourself permission, which is
why, it's so good to talk aboutit.
Which is why what Mimi is doingis so important.
And like, you know, Mimi hasthis great, um, she's an
(29:26):
entrepreneur as well.
So ceremonie which is spelledwith an I E you know, she offers
these services, but she's notgoing to talk about them on the
podcast.
She's going to talk about howmuch she cares about this whole
practice and, you know, becauseit's more than about, you know,
what I'm trying to say.
Kristy Yee (29:41):
It's sharing that wisdom.
It's showing that enthusiasm.
It's, it's telling us that, Hey,it's okay to be connected to the
water, to the plants.
It's okay to allow yourself todream about your ancestors and
maybe eventually have aconversation with them.
Like that's not a weird thing.
Like embrace it.
It was always been part of ourculture, regardless if it's
(30:03):
Chinese or not, like we'respeaking from a Chinese lens
because we're Chinese right?
But like Mimi said, this hasbeen practiced throughout many,
many, many, many, many othertypes of cultures around the
world, just in differentformats.
But the core of it is respectingthe dead paying, paying tribute
to the dead, to your ancestors,being in touch with the earth,
(30:26):
with the, with the elementsaround you and allowing yourself
to feel that affinity and thenallowing yourself to be
connected to that.
Whereas in the west, it's Likeoh, that's kind of woo.
Like what's up with that.
That's not scientific, blah,blah, blah.
Like it's, it's very hard lines.
You know what I mean?
Angie Yu (30:43):
Have you guys heard of the book called the woo
Kristy Yee (30:45):
woo?
No
Angie Yu (30:46):
it's, written by a Chinese Canadian.
I think she might be ChineseCanadian.
It says the Woo Woo (30:50):
How I survive ice hockey, drug raids
demons and my crazy Chinesefamily by Lindsay Wong.
And I wanted to read it.
I really did, but the title kindof threw me off.
And I guess, I didn't know whythe title threw me off until
really until our conversationtoday.
I think because it comes fromsuch a Western lens, like, Hey,
(31:14):
check out this Chinese conceptof the woo woo and she talks
about it as a, like you said,the devil, like how I survived
it, how I survived demons and mycrazy Chinese family.
And you know, of course I'mjudging the book by its cover.
I don't actually know how,whether her stance is on being
(31:36):
pro or anti woo-hoo.
So, um, you know, for those whohave read the book, feel free to
let us know.
Kristy Yee (31:43):
But there's like negative connotations, just,
just based off of the title fromwhat it sounds like.
And then you you had, you didn'tyou didn't vibe with that kind
of energy that like negativity.
Angie Yu (31:56):
Yeah.
Like I definitely didn't want tojust criticize.
Like we already don't have thatmany books written by women of
color and women of Chinesedescent and with that like, you
know, that sounds like people weknow.
Right.
So I was like, oh, but the titlejust kept throwing me off.
Like I've already bought thebook.
I just cannot open it becauseI'm scared about what it's going
(32:19):
to say.
I'm scared that it's going to bevery anti Chinese.
Mimi Young (32:23):
I would say, give it a chance and see what happens.
I will say the word"woo woo", Idon't know how it surface in the
west as an English word, butit's, it's an ancient word in
Chinese.
Like if you think about like woopor like, woo is...
it is discussing thatintersection of shamanism,
(32:44):
witchcraft, sorcery, occulticpractice.
Like that, that word"woo" ismagic.
So I don't know if it relates tothe word Woo Woo in English,
but, but woo has existedforever.
And I think the reason why mywork has been...
like my personal work.
And then of course it translatesinto my, my, uh, my brand's
(33:07):
work, is that when we can returnto our roots, particularly folk
practices and sister practicesand customs, um, in the context
of magic and the context ofspirituality, it is an act of
decolonizing because then youstart saying like, I am Chinese,
(33:29):
and this is what we do, what wedid or what we do.
And it is it's, it's being morevisible.
Like at least it certainly wasthat way for me.
Um, especially when I firststarted my business where
honestly, every single spiritualteacher or healer out there was
practicing yoga.
And I don't think Not even oneof them was actually from Indian
(33:52):
descent.
Like, like it's just like, okay,so a bunch of people are
practicing yoga.
A bunch of white peoplepracticing yoga, um, and waving,
you know, crystal clustersaround.
It had an aesthetic, right?
Like, and it was all like peoplein their twenties.
So it was just like, okay, wellwellness means you must be
young, which to me is justreinforcing age-ism and all the
(34:14):
things that we see problematicin the fashion industry, how you
must be skinny, you have, itmust be like, you know, like all
these things.
And when we decolonize, wenaturally wind up asking that
question of, do I needpermission and realizing I don't
need permission because thatconcept permission is rooted in
enslavement.
Like what, like, fuck, I can'tmake a decision for myself?
(34:37):
I need to ask so-and-so?
Like, I need to submit a paperto the establishment and get
approval or whatever it is.
Right.
Like it's like, or I needs tosubmit it to a man?
That that equals ownership.
Like I am somebody's property.
But when you realize that you'reno one's property and that
you're no one's slave, that ideaof permission is all of a
(35:01):
sudden, no longer part of theconversation.
Kristy Yee (35:04):
Dang.
I want to take back that word
Mimi Young (35:08):
I mean, I wrote, I wrote it down on paper cause I
was like, I love how you'reusing the word permission
because it's like, it reveals somuch or reveals just how much we
have been colonized andindoctrinated.
Kristy Yee (35:20):
And how much we don't have the freedom of choice
to practice in the way that wewant to practice.
To live the way that we want tolive, to do the things that we
want to do in our own way.
Mimi Young (35:32):
Totally.
And you know, I've I've lookedat.
China so many times I've I've Idon't know about you, but it
just sort of like, what were theconditions that led to the
cultural revolution?
What were the conditions thatled to communism?
like it's, you know, one can seeit if one starts noticing.
And it was because there wasthat abuse of freedom that led
(35:55):
the whole country to crumble andresurface as nobody has freedom
anymore.
And I know what I said is very,very, um, what's the word?
Uh, probably controversial, youknow, because one, cause one can
say is, is it's a freedom tohurt people, real freedom.
Like it's, you know, like it's Iget it.
(36:19):
and really what, what thecultural revolution was a
reaction to was a lot of peoplewere on the top where very few
people are on the top and theywere abusing their freedoms.
and they, they didn't look outand you know, there was a lot
of, corruption and a lot ofnepotism and a lot of, uh, a lot
of, you know, a lot of pain forpeople who weren't in those
(36:40):
inner circles of power.
And so the cultural revolutionwas a reaction.
And it was a natural one.
and yet it gave birth to a wholeother political system, which
also has its issues too, that weknow today.
And like I said, it's, you know,even saying this out loud, is
it's, it could potentially besomething that's going to arise,
(37:02):
a strong reaction from forcertain listeners.
Because I know that I have mybias of being Taiwanese.
Um, yet I also see it happeningand here in the west, it's like,
if this continues, we areheading in the same direction,
we're already on our way there.
So it's.
But you know, we, we, that, thatmight have to be a different
(37:25):
episode altogether, um, becauseis, is rationing food and, you
know, is, is that the best wayof handling things?
I don't know.
Angie Yu (37:33):
I will say though, as someone who's, who has become
really familiar with it, thathistory is that most people who
quote unquote, I get offended byare people who haven't actually
done their research, but have anopinion on it.
I am not offended by what yousaid.
I think what you said isabsolutely true.
And I agree with that a hundredpercent, you know, I guess
(37:53):
another lesson from that islike, Hey, which is which I, I,
am a hypocrite because I justdid that with the book.
You know, I judged the book,what did I actually do my own
research?
So, you know, uh, do what I say,know what I do.
Kristy Yee (38:07):
When you call yourself out, you know,
Angie Yu (38:10):
Yeah.
Kristy Yee (38:11):
I think so we touched upon like the cultural
revolution and how that's robbedpeople who live in China from
being in tuned with theirculture.
Like that's, that's fucking whatthe cultural revolution means.
Like you take away.
Okay.
So it's been robbed and, and thepeople.
Who first experienced thatfirsthand, basically our
parents' generation, right?
(38:32):
That has a trickle effect downto us, whether or not I think
whether or not they're they livein China or, or they have come
here.
I think there has there's,there's a trickle effect down to
the next generation of what thecultural revolution has done in
ways.
And what I mean by that is likeripping us away from
understanding our own cultures,whether it's practices, whether
(38:52):
it's books, whether it'sknowledge, whatever it is.
And then we also talked abouthow colonialism did the same
thing.
They shamed and demonized otherpractices that they are not
familiar with by calling itwitchcraft by, by associating it
with the devil like evil things,right?
Like this is, this is notsomething that we talk about or
(39:13):
do know?
Angie Yu (39:14):
We're even just like identifying or pushing a
witchcraft into the category ofquote unquote bad
Mimi Young (39:22):
exactly.
Yeah.
Like I think the term isaccurate witchcraft it's it's
true, but it doesn't mean bad.
Angie Yu (39:29):
Yeah.
Because in history, likewitchcraft was something that
women did to empower themselves.
And, of course men were like,nip numbness.
We don't like, that That's bad.
Let's burn you at the stake.
Kristy Yee (39:41):
And, and like, think
Angie Yu (39:42):
Yeah.
Kristy Yee (39:42):
the other things that has also been deemed as
bad.
That really shouldn't be likeracism.
You know, we're gonna go wayback, not even way back, like 50
years back, if you are adifferent color, that's bad.
And so people try to lightentheir skin, et cetera.
If you are a certain body size,well that's bad.
(40:03):
And so then diet culturehappens.
And if you practice witchcraftwell, that's bad.
So like all of these things is,is really a control of culture.
Of controlling us as women, aspeople of color, as people who
are just non EurocentricChristians.
(40:25):
And, and that's a way that theyare taking away our freedom and
our, our way to express our owncultures.
And I think that that is, Idon't know, like, I don't know
what I think.
I it's just sad.
Right?
Like both the culturalrevolution and colonialism has
very similar effects in terms ofthe harm that it has caused us
(40:46):
and everybody else around us.
Angie Yu (40:48):
yeah,
Kristy Yee (40:49):
I don't know where I'm going with this.
I'm just expressing my thoughtsand feelings.
Angie Yu (40:53):
yeah, I was going to say, what you're saying is
basically fact doesn't mean thatwe have a solution, but, um,
yeah, only thing you can do isreally just keep talking about
it.
This, this is so funny.
Like we were expecting to learnall this stuff about
spirituality and someone is, nowwe're talking about,
Mimi Young (41:11):
About politics.
you know, why?
Because spirituality is.
And because politics is informedby spirituality, people who
start wars, they usually blameit.
Well, they don't blame it.
They justify it because God saidso.
Angie Yu (41:25):
right.
Mimi Young (41:26):
Right.
So, So, that's why we keep on goor we, I do it too.
I find everything goes back topolitics because spirituality
and politics are fairlyinterchangeable.
Kristy Yee (41:48):
Do you tell us a little bit more about dreams?
I'm curious.
Angie Yu (41:50):
Yeah.
I'm not, I know Kristy is dyingto ask you, how do I have more
lucid dreams?
Cause I, I love my dreams.
Like they're so lucid and for meit feels like I'm filing shit
away for the future.
Um, but Chris is always like,what, what?
Yeah, so.
Mimi Young (42:06):
I would say, okay, well, first of all, you know,
I've never done this on apodcast before I, I did record
an entire podcast episode aboutand dream practices on another
one.
It's called woo.
New talking about woo it's.
So funny.
W O O and then K N E w um, youcan access it through my
(42:27):
website.
I also talk about it in anarticle that I did with goop,
um, and same thing.
You could access it through mypress and podcast section on my
website and just click on thegoop, uh, photo.
Um, and that would take you tothe article, but just so that we
can talk about it here, I wouldsay it's really important to
(42:48):
view your dream.
As your allies like to view thatmedium as a friend or a group of
friends and begin.
Um, the idea of going to sleepas you would, when you're
getting ready to meet yourfriends.
So I typically shower before Isee my friends and make sure I
(43:09):
have good breath.
So, you know, hygiene isimportant, which means if you're
thinking, thinking, thinking,doing, doing, doing, watching
Netflix to write to the minutethat you go to bed, you're not
going to have a really cleanconversation in your dream.
So making sure that dreamhygiene there is isn't there.
Cause you're, you're going to bemeeting with friends second,
have an intention.
(43:30):
Like why are you meeting withyour friends?
You're going to go for a jogtogether.
Are you going to go for lunch?
Are you going to, you know,gossip about someone have that
intention there?
Just kidding what the last one,but you know what I mean?
And then, yeah.
And then go go to bed.
You know, that intention isimportant because essentially
(43:50):
you're casting that dreams.
So when you're in your dream,then you can be conscious
whether if it is, you're tryingto sort out something that's
been bothering you, or you wantto maybe connect with an
ancestor.
Um, and it really does work whenyou go in with that, that
hygiene in place and thatintention, um, and it doesn't
(44:10):
have to be necessarily for theintention, dreaming.
It could be for the intention,any type of thing that you would
like to see experience, or maybehelp support like a resolution
towards, in a dream.
Um, but yeah, that really helps.
And sometimes, you know, you caneither say it or you can just
write it on a sheet of paper,and then maybe place it under
your pillow or something, ornext to your bed, um, and then
(44:32):
go to sleep.
And then there's some alliesthat are really helpful.
Some plant allies.
I.
I'd like to work with mugwort.
which of course is, you know,part of our culture.
It's part of many cultures,actually.
There's many different types ofmugwort that exist.
there there's one key, one thatexists sort of in, you know,
are.
from a culture perspective is amugwort that is often found in
(44:54):
like moxa or, other forms of,TCM based practices.
But, but yeah, McGuire, it'sreally great.
you can make it, you know, like,uh, you don't have to make a
strong tea, but you can make,uh, like a herbal tea with
either dried or fresh mugwort.
And have a sit before bed andactually talk to the tea, talk
to before going to bed with thesame idea.
(45:15):
So you've, you've done yourhygiene.
You've, you know, speak with herwith that intention and then ask
her to.
Almost behave like aninterpreter between the dream
itself and you, or if it's notinterpreter kind of like a
bridge, like she'll be a bit ofthat conduit that, that
mediator, uh, really, reallyhelpful.
(45:35):
And if you're not interested in,you know, drinking a tea and of
course I have to say this justfor legality, like consult with
your herbalists before consumingany plant.
But if you're not interested inthat, I do have a mist that's on
my website.
It's called the astral dream MISthat contains a high
concentration of mugwort thatyou can basically missed your
(45:56):
bed and miss your aura, and thengo to sleep with that intention
of having some form ofcommunication with spirits while
you're dreaming.
Kristy Yee (46:06):
I did not expect like a, here are the steps did
great.
That's so great because I alwaysbeen saying like, okay, I need
to stop watching my YouTube allthe way until the minute I pass
out, you know, like I have that,I want to do that.
Right.
But then every night I don't,every night, I'm still back on
the YouTube and I'm still doingmy thing until I pass out.
(46:28):
And, and, and sometimes that'sbecause I'm going through
depression and I just need thatoutlet.
And I need that extra kick ofwhatever it is.
And sometimes it's just habit.
Right.
And, and it doesn't, it doesn'tever feel good.
It's not like, Ooh, I feel sorefresh after watching like two
hours of YouTube.
Mimi Young (46:49):
Well, well, this is the thing.
So I mean, want to get science-ythere's serotonin and dopamine
sounds like you really likeddopamine and they have like
that, that dependency ondopamine, but really what's
going to help, with maintaininga more regulated brain.
Including moods regulated moodsis to really create a space more
(47:13):
for a serotonin cultivation,serotonin takes more time.
And it's more of that long formof building.
So build reward systems andpleasure systems that is more
around discipline, such ascreating some dream hygiene.
Cause like most of us, like, atleast when I meet with my
friends, like, I'm not justlike, you know, Going from work
(47:36):
to friends.
Like I usually, there's usuallya bathroom trip along the way
where I like clean my teeth andlike, make sure that I'm, I'm
presented not from a, a shameperspective, but just out of
respect for the other person orif they're coming over, which
maybe it's not happening so muchright now, still as we're
opening up from COVID.
But at least before you cleanyour house, right?
(47:57):
Like you, like, you clean yourhome and like you put out food
that is not leftover.
Do you make new food?
Like you, you put your, yourbetter foot forward, same thing
with dreams.
And same thing with buildingserotonin.
Kristy Yee (48:09):
I think like all of that stuff that you said, you
know, making sure you, you dressnice, you keep your hygiene, you
clean your house.
That is also comes from like usbuilding an environment that
feels good for us.
Because I want to engage with myfriends.
I'm going to create a space andan environment where they feel
good and I feel good so that wecan all have a good time.
And I think you're totallyright.
I think there's a lot of folkswho don't do enough of that
(48:32):
before their bedtime ritual andmyself included.
And I am so much more motivatednow.
Mimi Young (48:38):
Yeah, it's investing in you and it's investing in a
relationship with the unseen
Kristy Yee (48:43):
Holy shit.
That's so, That's
Angie Yu (48:45):
Yeah.
And, you know, like for those ofus who are obsessed with Sage,
you now have a woman of color tosupport rather than Sage.
So there you go.
And that's that's me also.
Kristy Yee (49:00):
I have too much Sage.
Oh my goodness.
Okay.
I do want to wrap up for ourconversation today.
How are you feeling Mimi?
Mimi Young (49:07):
I'm feeling great.
I, I loved how, yeah.
I loved how, we just chatted andwe, we covered a lot.
Kristy Yee (49:13):
I think so too.
I never would have expectedagain, that we would talk about
colonialism and the culturalrevolution and the social
justice and political aspects ofthings.
And feel like, I, feel like, I'mready and I want to embrace my
own culture and my roots and myown spirituality a lot more
after this conversation.
(49:34):
So thank you so much, maybe.
Mimi Young (49:36):
I am so thrilled to hear that.
Angie Yu (49:39):
Aw, you guys.
Kristy Yee (49:44):
Come into the mush with us, feel, feel the things.
I do want to ask you one morequestion for our listeners.
If anyone of you, poop, troopsfelt similar that you want to
open up and be more in touchwith your own spirituality side.
Any, any tips for our listenerson how they can start that
practice.
Mimi Young (50:04):
Returned to food.
I would say what your parents,what your grandparents, what
your great, great, what yourgreat grandparents ate.
food carries very healingvibrations, and if you're open
to it, uh, they have their ownvoices to the dishes.
So that's number one.
I talked about the dreamsalready.
Yeah.
(50:24):
And work with folks that havedone this kind of work.
So they know what that terrainlooks like.
Um, you know, I never make sensefor someone to let's say, learn
Chinese astrology from a whiteperson.
Like really, you think that's agood idea.
I don't.
Kristy Yee (50:42):
I don't want to shit on people even like TMC.
I,
Mimi Young (50:45):
I have very strong opinions.
I will not go to someone who isnot a Chinese lineage, for
acupuncture or any type of, youknow, traditional Chinese
herbalism.
It just doesn't make sense.
Kristy Yee (50:58):
I tried it, it, it didn't, it, it, felt different
if I go to TMC and I need to,you know, get some herbs and
like make some tea.
Right.
I'm going to the 70 year oldgrandma, grandpa
Mimi Young (51:12):
totally, exactly.
And you know, you really noticea difference, right?
Like if I go to one of thoselike clinics that have, you
know, orchids in the foyer andbeautiful spa music playing, and
then I go in and the doctormight feel my pulse might, and
then they ask me.
Like 12 questions.
(51:32):
Whereas I go to mine, shedoesn't ask me any questions.
She tells me to stick out mytongue and she feels my pulse
and she knows everything.
She needs to know.
She doesn't ask questions,barely talks to me, but she
knows exactly what to do.
(51:54):
Well.
I mean, the body is intuitiveand they know that they know
that it's not only intuitive,but there's records in our pulse
there's records.
Like w this is several years agonow I was traveling to visit
family in Taiwan.
And I went to a TCM doctor thereand very, very old man, um,
(52:14):
spoke very thick Taiwanese, andI don't speak Taiwanese but I
understand how he needs, but itwas so thick that it was just a
little bit hard to understand.
He felt my pulse.
And he said right away, he saidyou were born through a
C-section.
You have gut issues?
Like I was like, like, how onearth?
I'm see anything.
(52:35):
I swore he was psychic.
But the thing is, this is whenart and science or magic and
science are the same.
Angie Yu (52:43):
Wow.
Wait, is that, is that a thing?
If you're born through C-sectionyou have gut issues?
Cause I have gut issues and Iwas born through
Mimi Young (52:50):
Yeah.
Well, supposedly it later on, Iactually did some research on
this it's because if you wereborn through C-section
oftentimes the mother's givenantibiotics
Angie Yu (53:00):
um,
Mimi Young (53:02):
the
Kristy Yee (53:03):
colonies that is in your own gut afterwards.
Yeah.
And because you're also notpassing through the vaginal
canal, you're also not beingexposed as too many bacteria
cultures through the vaginalcanal as, you know?
Yeah.
So you basically missed out onthe bacterial exposure through
vagina.
Angie Yu (53:20):
yeah.
So that's the science and theart is putting your finger on a
random person in a person's pawsand be like, you ever have a
C-section and you have gutissues.
Yeah.
Mimi Young (53:31):
Totally.
I mean, I was just so blown awaybecause, and the fact that they
can feel and hear the nuances,and that's the kind of listening
I'm talking about.
It's not like a doctor hearsthings in that literal very
obvious way.
Same thing with spiritcommunication.
It's very subtle.
Kristy Yee (53:48):
Yeah.
Mimi Young (53:49):
the minute you say, I don't think that was real.
It's gone.
Kristy Yee (53:52):
Mm.
Mimi Young (53:52):
You have to say, I'm going to trust that even though
it was just a faint whisper.
Kristy Yee (53:58):
So I started doing that.
I started having doubts and thenI started to not feel as much
things anymore.
And I think that's because Istudy science, I am a dietitan I
went through, I did the whitepeople, university stuff, you
know, and, and I started havingsort of having the doubts and I
(54:19):
feel, I feel like that made meme misaligned with a part of my
body.
And through this conversationtoday, I think I want to pay
more attention to those, thosethings again, and be more
accepting and be more open aboutthat.
I do want to put out a littlecaveat for people who have went
through a C-section have gonethrough a C-section.
This is no shame for people whohave gone through a C-section.
(54:40):
Okay.
Don't feel bad.
Like this is you, you freakingmade a human in your body.
And so you want to bring it outto this world in the safest,
most possible way.
And sometimes a C-section iswhat you have to do to do that,
to protect yourself and yourchild.
Mimi Young (54:55):
I mean, I'm sure angie and I, we can both confirm
that that was the only way forus to be born given the
circumstances, right?
Kristy Yee (55:03):
Mimi, thank you so much for hanging out with us and
sharing your wisdom.
And I just feel like I talk somuch.
so
Mimi Young (55:11):
Oh, good, good,
Kristy Yee (55:12):
where can our listeners find You
Mimi Young (55:14):
You can find me on my website, which is shop
ceremony.com.
Ceremony is spelled with an I Eat the end.
They can also find me on samehandle shop ceremony and if you
go onto my website, there'susually sort of a list of
upcoming and offerings and soforth, but there's a fair amount
of content.
You know, my monthly magazine,there's a blog.
(55:37):
and yeah, like extensiveinformation and access to other
podcasts.
I've been on
Kristy Yee (55:42):
Lots of good stuff.
So we will link all of those inthe show notes, including the
goop article that you hadmentioned, as well as the who
knew yes.
The wound new podcast episode.
So we'll link all of that foryou guys to listen thank you
again.
Mimi Young (55:58):
Thank you for having me.
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