43. How to Give Less F***s About Dating and Marriage & Find Your Own Happiness ft. Justine Ang Fonte
March 20, 2022 • 57 mins
Justine shares stories of telling her Catholic Filipino parents about dating a black man, potentially not getting married, and potentially not having kids - even though she wants 4 of them. We explore why women tend to choose “fixer-uppers”, and why we are fixated on romantic relationships to bring us happiness. She's a recovering people pleaser, avid baker, and sex educator in New York City.
“Why are we giving so much credit to that one thing, one place, one person, to give us happiness” - Justine Ang Fonte
Find Justine:
Website: https://www.justinefonte.com/
Instagram @imjustineaf
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kristy Yee (00:00):
In today's episode, we have Justine Ang Fante, a
raised Catholic Filipino.
And we talk about how thedefinition of dating love and
marriage conflicts with ourAsian immigrant parents,
specifically dating someone toappease our parents racism, in
interracial relationships, oursexuality, the choice of having
kids or no kids, and how all ofthis is related to
(00:21):
decolonization Welcome back toanother episode.
(00:50):
Today.
We have Justine Ang Fante, whois a sex educator, specializing
in intersectional health.
She is a Filipina American wholives in New York city, loves to
bake and loves to share what shebakes with all her friends and
neighbors and people, and justspread love that way.
Something that Justine reallywould like to talk more about is
(01:11):
being comfortable with hersexuality, but also how our
sexuality can sometimes conflictwith our Asian immigrant
parents, assimulations.
And that is something I feellike I can relate to a lot as a
fellow Asian American, AsianCanadian person who is educated
(01:34):
in Western culture.
And more open about sexuality,but when you come home, then
that door gets closed and wejust do not talk about sex.
So I'm really curious to hearfrom your perspective, Justine,
like what are your thoughts onhow our sexuality conflicts with
our Asian immigrant parents?
Justine Ang Fonte (01:54):
Well, specifically around like what
marriage and family expectationsare.
I think that the expectation asan Asian girl daughter in an
Asian family is that youpropagate your family's gene
pool with other little Asianbabies.
(02:15):
And that expectation is set at areally early age where they are
group really teaching you andraising you right from the get,
go to be.
Someone that is a caretaker andto prioritize somebody else's
needs over your own.
And that gender role aspectdefinitely starts to define your
(02:35):
own identity at an early age.
Even if it's not something youplan on doing or want to do.
and then just the lack ofcommunication around, sexual
health is something that I thinka lot of people, become ill
informed when the stakes arehigher and they're left with
trying to just figure it outbecause it's not something their
parents talked to them about ordid.
(02:57):
So in a way that was loving andnurturing and more so punitive,
if you had messed up or someonein your family had quote, messed
up and then them telling youthis won't happen to you because
we're supposed to be perfect.
And there's only shame attachedto something that was unplanned,
or not meeting, you know, whatwe expect from you.
There's not a lot ofcommunication about, you know,
(03:18):
sex and sexuality.
and then there's an expectationthat after, you know, not having
had any romantic partners untilyou're finished with that
school, it's supposed to justpop out grandchildren for them
ASAP without ever having had aconversation as to what a
healthy relationship looks like,that you can date in high school
and not, you know, flunk out ofclass.
(03:40):
And so there's, a really astruggle, I think for a lot of,
you know, kids of, Asianimmigrants where they don't know
how to navigate the datingworld, because it's not
something that was openly talkedabout or, normalized as, you
know, as teenagers.
And then we're expected to justbe like rabbits producing all
the grandchildren, when therewasn't really any, practice
(04:03):
prior.
Kristy Yee (04:04):
I hate all of that because.
growing up, I've never had anyquote, unquote sex talk from my
parents.
By the time I got to high schooland then, you know, having
crushes on boys, wanting todate, then of course it's no,
you cannot date until you havefinished all your education.
And then we'll talk about it Andso zero sex talks, zero talks
(04:25):
about dating zero talks abouthow to have a healthy
relationship, but what is datingand some parts of it.
I don't blame my parents becauseat least my parents, they didn't
date.
They also just listened to theirparents as well.
Their parents pick their spousesand they're like, yeah, you guys
are going to get married andbust out some babies.
And, and so that's all theyknow, and they pass that down to
(04:47):
me.
So they wouldn't even know howto give me dating advice.
But what I find reallyfrustrating is.
The moment you get out ofschool.
When are you going to getmarried?
Where are you going to havekids?
Where are my grandkids?
Like you ain't getting anyyounger,
Justine Ang Fonte (05:02):
yeah, you're not alone.
Angie Yu (05:04):
I am a little bit more fortunate in the sense that when
my parents immigrated to Canada,my mom decided to go into early
childhood education.
And through that program, shepicked up a lot of more Western
upbringing.
methods.
So she, she knows that like,Hey, everything needs to be like
positive reinforcement.
you need to be open-minded withyour kids, et cetera, et cetera.
(05:27):
So she has been a lot moreexposed to this type of stuff.
And she works at a pretty good,preschool, basically it's, it's,
almost government fundedprogram.
And so she gets, she goes to allthese workshops about a lot of
topics that are, you know,currently, at the top of
people's mind, for example, likehomosexuality or trans people.
(05:49):
So this is something that shewas obviously was never, ever
exposed to and because of theenvironment that she works in,
she's a lot more open-minded.
So I have.
Had the fortune of seeing hermind being transformed as well,
because she did used to be, alittle bit homophobic as most
immigrant parents are or still,yeah, we're we're are.
(06:09):
but the funny thing is, eventhough my mom is very
open-minded in that regard, Ican see in her behavior and
things that she says to me thatthere's still a lot of conflict
for her.
So after the end of my lastrelationship, my mom was very,
open-minded like, you know, likeyou don't really need to get
married.
you don't need to have childrento be happy in this life.
(06:30):
I just want you to be happy.
But now that I'm in arelationship, she starting to
kind of push for grandchildrenagain.
so it's kind of funny for me tosee that too, because it just, I
see so much conflict within heras well, even though she has
been exposed to this educationand I feel, I see that conflict
in myself as.
Yeah.
So, you know, like it's reallyhard for us to unlearn that.
(06:52):
And Justine, you mentioned that,you know, you grew up in a
Filipino family, like you haveall this, culture instilled in
you, have you ever seen aconflict arise in your, in what
you do now and how you wereraised?
Justine Ang Fonte (07:06):
Every day, I'm not just Filipino, but I was
raised Catholic and I am afull-time sex educator.
All of those things, do not getalong.
And the number one opposition inmy career is the Roman Catholic
church, right?
When it comes to homosexuality,when it comes to marriage, when
(07:28):
it comes to, marriage first,before you can have kids, when
it comes to reproductive rights,right?
All of this is completelycontrary to how I was raised.
and what I now teach inclassrooms and, you know, on
stages is very contrary to thatupbringing.
(07:48):
So I'm constantly in conflictwith, how I was raised.
And now what I am raisingyounger generations to buy into.
Kristy Yee (07:57):
How did you get to.
Where you are now from where youhad come from, in terms of your
understanding of what dating is,what love is with marriages,
what babies are about sex, andthen to where you stand now,
educating younger folks andspeaking about sexuality in a
very open way.
Justine Ang Fonte (08:18):
I don't know if it was really, I a moment,
but I think it's a combinationof my experiences, both
personally and professionally,that really reaffirmed that I'm
in the right place doing theright thing.
So on the professional.
Vain.
I had been a sex educator as ahigh school senior for my last
(08:41):
year of high school, kind of asa volunteer service learning
project.
and so that was like my realfirst introduction to what sex
ed even was.
And I was teaching things that Iwas never taught, you know, in
middle school or high school.
and then I had pursued, amaster's in education.
So I was working in a school, asa seventh and eighth grade math
teacher and I had pregnantmiddle-schoolers.
(09:04):
So I saw a direct connection tohow they're health was something
infringing on their academicachievement.
So then that connection was madecontinued on to get the master's
in public health, with aspecialization in sexuality.
And I had done my practicum inthe Philippines where my family
is from doing an investigationon how their first year of the
(09:27):
department of education sex edpilot was doing.
It was quite abstinence only.
Based kind of sex ed.
and I was seeing its directimpact to why there are 80
students in one classroom withone teacher and why families
were trying to figure out how tostay afloat in buying a
(09:47):
sufficient number of bags ofrice for the four extra children
they never planned on having.
So now there's eight of them.
So I started to see like howeconomy education was being
impacted by family planning, notbeing something normalized or
taught early on.
and then in my actual classroomand own experiences,
(10:08):
professionally teaching, I'mseeing how much of an impact.
Is in the prevention of a lot ofthese things with my students in
New York city, with studentsthat I'm teaching in the U S and
how understanding theirauthentic self, beyond them as a
sexual being also means theirsexuality and their gender
identity and being theirauthentic self, being so
(10:30):
liberating as something thatthey can be in sixth grade
already, as opposed to waitinguntil they're an adults getting
divorced, because they have justlearned or just realized or come
into their own that it was okayto be gay.
And so being able to reallydismantle those oppressions in
classroom settings with youngpopulations is a really powerful
(10:52):
affirming.
I had paired all of thatprofessional background with my
personal dating experiences.
My first romantic partner was,when I was a junior in high
school, but I didn't tell myparents that he was my boyfriend
for the first year of dating.
and what was actually helpfulabout that lie was that by the
second year, when I decided Iwas going to tell them, I've
(11:15):
actually been dating him for ayear, my parents still busted
out the same rebuttals that theyprobably would have said when I
just started dating him.
Well, what's going to happenwith your studies.
What's going to happen with yourtennis, how are you going to be
able to focus?
And I said, well, if you take alook at the last 365 days,
(11:36):
studies in tennis have not beencompromised, right.
Like I have evidence here andthen were like, oh, oh, she's
really.
But she can't say that out loud.
Right?
My mom can't say that out loud.
So, you know, it was somethinghard.
It was really hard for myparents to grapple with the fact
that like, oh, I'm coming intoadulthood and this is something
(11:58):
that's natural for our daughter,but they're still thinking that
this is only bad and leads to atattoo, riding a motorcycle and
shooting up heroin.
And you know, that is not thecase and getting pregnant while
you're doing all of that andthen also getting pregnant.
Right.
and so it was really hard forthem to accept that I had, you
know, that I am, you know,someone that can fall in love
(12:20):
that can be loved by someoneoutside of a family member.
but I understand that it's allrooted in safety.
They're afraid that, you know,if I lose focus on the things
that have helped them survive asan immigrant in the United
States, I'm going to have a hardtime and all they've ever wanted
is for me to have a life paththat is much easier than what
(12:42):
they had to endure.
So I get it.
And then, you know, as I'mdating, you know, then they
became used to the fact that,oh, okay.
So after that relationship, shemight have another relationship.
And this is all before, youknow, a master's program is
complete or a medical degree iscomplete.
And that is now a reality for usas parents of just and Fox.
(13:02):
and so all of that wasinteresting.
And then I came across, my firstboyfriend who was white, the
first two were Asian.
and it was a really healthy,long five-year relationship.
And I had noticed how happy myparents were in this
relationship.
and I figured because it was ahappy relationship.
I, that I.
(13:23):
But I had noticed comments fromaunties and other family members
that stemmed around howbeautiful our children would
look because of how Mr.
Lisa or Misty.
So they would be with beinglighter skin and having a
sharper nose.
And these were things that I'dalways known about, like the
Filipino stereotype and comicsthat I, you know, followed and
(13:43):
listened to.
and I just figured this is justsomething in general that is
that they just believe, but Ididn't really connect it to
racism yet until a couple ofboyfriends.
After that, I started dating ablack man and I saw their
complete opposite reactiondespite how healthy my
relationship was.
(14:04):
And again, it was rooted in aI'm scared for your safety.
It's not that you know, I don'tlike him.
But I don't want their problemsto now become our family's
problems.
And that was an interesting wayof looking at what that racism
is, because sure you can votefor Obama and you can be fine
(14:27):
with my black roommate, but whenit starts to enter potentially
your gene pool and it nowbecomes your family, that's a
responsibility that the allyship stops at.
And that was super interestingto me.
Cause that's when I directly sawhow opposite they reacted to my
white boyfriend and how they'rereacting to this black
(14:50):
boyfriend.
And after that relationshipended for, you know, reasons
that that had nothing to do withmy parents, the boyfriend, after
that also happens to be black.
And I felt that my familyreacted even stronger in anger
because they felt that.
I should have learned my lessonquote the first time.
(15:10):
And here I was now just onpurpose disobeying, the family
values.
Of protection and that was superhurtful and really, a revelation
and understanding where all thiswas coming from.
And it was also the beginning oflike my own decolonization work
that I had started to do in myown Philippina community.
(15:31):
So it wasn't just like a, oh, wewant lighter skin it's that we
don't want this to be a part ofus because their problems then
become our problems.
And that's when I started makingsense of anti-blackness in the
Filipino community, I was alwaysaware of anti indigenous, you
know, feelings in the Filipinocommunity.
But now just adding onto that asI was getting older, you know,
(15:51):
in my mid twenties, andabsorbing all of this while I'm
teaching about, you know, beautystandards in my own sex ed
classroom and sexuality in thoseclassrooms, seeing like how
those same colonial mentality.
Are infiltrating my own personallife.
So that's how I came to whereI'm at in, you know,
(16:11):
understanding sexuality and theway that I do and making sense
of my own lived reality as adating person.
and the consequences orramifications.
If I bring that news home to myfamily who might not be educated
in the same way that I havebeen.
Kristy Yee (16:27):
Wow, holy shit.
Angie Yu (16:30):
Like one, absolutely.
I can hear the passion ineverything you say, and you are
very eloquent.
So, you know, ladies andgentlemen, Justine really knows
what she's talking about.
Go check her out.
If you haven't already.
I like, for me, that's a lot toprocess.
and it seems like you havereached a point of kind of
acceptance that this family.
(16:51):
Is the way they are and you'rejust going to have to work
around that.
Is that right?
Justine Ang Fonte (16:55):
Yeah.
you know, Hasan Minhaj has thisone phrase that I've thought of.
So often since his homecomingking special came out about the
number of cards you're dealtwith, that you, that are worth
fighting for in your, with yourimmigrant family.
And so, you know, I could gohome and complain about how I
have to go to church with themagain, because it's the holidays
(17:18):
and it's around also mybirthday.
And when the Catholic church,there are so many times you're
expected to go to mass duringthe Christmas season.
And my birthday is December 30thand you're supposed to go to
mass on your birthday.
So I'm just going to church alot whenever I'm home in
December.
And I could make a whole thingof it, about where I'm at with
my Catholic faith, that doesn'tnecessitate needing to go to a
(17:41):
building to worship.
and I could do that every singletime.
But I also know that I am goingto stand strong with who I fall
in love with, and that's goingto be a very big fight,
potentially.
There's going to be a big fightabout how I want to raise my
kids if I have kids.
And that's more, those arefights that I want to preserve
(18:02):
my energy for than wasting it ona it's an hour in mass with my
parents.
And it makes them so happy.
And the amount of happiness thatit gives them is something
that's so outweighs.
The irritability I'll have forthose 60 minutes, this isn't the
card I'm going to actually playright now.
(18:24):
This isn't the one I'm going tosend a, save it for the bigger
ones.
Save it for the bigger ones onwho you're going to marry.
If you marry how you're going toraise your kids, what type of,
you know, religion you may ormay not, you know, take on,
like, those are the bigger ones.
And I'm thinking to senior onlyget five cards.
Don't waste it on the 60 minutesthat you can tolerate.
But there are other things Iwon't be able to tolerate and
(18:46):
I'm saving it for them
Kristy Yee (18:48):
that pick your battles and choose the ones that
you're really going to give ashit about because going to
mass, if it's going to appeasethem and it doesn't really hurt
me that much, whatever, I'll goto mass to make you feel happy.
But the shit that you're notgoing to stand for is how you're
going to raise your kids.
What religion, who you're gonnamarry, how the wedding is going
to be all these, all thesedecisions that you are not going
(19:12):
to pivot for, pick those as yourbattles.
Have you had a battle yet withfamily members about any of
these big ticketed five carditems?
Justine Ang Fonte (19:24):
no, because I have not yet been, you know,
engaged.
I have not yet been pregnant.
so those cards are still, youknow, waiting in their, in their
safe, have not been unlocked yetor used, but there was, an, I
came out to my parents about onething that falls under that
realm that, I was pleasantlyreally, surprised and grateful
(19:49):
for how my mom reacted.
And then what she told me, mydad said after she shared it,
and that was basically tellingthem that I may not even get
married and I'm okay with that.
I'm asking that you will be okaywith that too.
and I expected that to besomething bigger.
And of course there was alittle, you know, pushback, and
(20:10):
was like, yeah, but then howwill you, but then, but then
what if you want to have kidsand you don't have a man?
And I said, well, I have a spermbank that I could like look
into, but you won't know them.
I was like, well, I will do mydue diligence.
Just, I ha as I I've always beena good student, mom trained me
to be a good student.
I will do all of my research tomake sure that I, you know, find
(20:30):
that too.
And even if I were to know theman love the man date, the man
for five years, that doesn'tguarantee that he's going to be
a good husband, a good father,or be the same person that I
knew him for prior to becoming afather.
And we unfortunately have enoughbad statistics in our own family
(20:53):
to prove that marriages don'tstay.
a marriage for a variety ofdifferent reasons.
And so, you know, I think shefelt that I was right, but was
sad that I was right.
And then she really just pausedfor a bit and said, you know, of
course I want to havegrandchildren.
And I would think that that issomething that would make you
(21:14):
happy.
But if you're starting torealize now, you know that it
may not be something that couldmake you happy, or you're open
to the idea that you can stillhave a full fulfilled, valid
life without it.
Then I have to be happy for it.
I want you to make a choice andI've trust.
I trust you with all of thedifferent decisions you've made
in your, in your life.
(21:35):
That it's, it's a choice that'sbeen well thought out.
and so I was like driving withmy mom saying all this and like
tearing up and like, whoa, didmy mom just pull, you know, an
Angie Parentline on.
I just want you to be happybecause that's not a typical,
you know, Asian immigrant line.
because they may say this untilyou're dating a black man, even
(21:57):
if you're happy.
Right.
and so when they, my mom saidthis, I was like, okay.
And then the next day she toldme in the morning, I told her
Papa what you said to me lastnight in the car.
And I was like, and then my momsaid, well, and he said, you
know, Justine is a verythoughtful person and, you know,
she makes good joyous choices.
(22:17):
And if this is something, ifthat's something that, you know,
she can feel happy about stilltoo, then we have to just
support her.
She's an adults.
And so that's been a big.
Change in an effect for myparents around, around this,
this stuff.
And so that's been really agift.
So when you first, reached outto me, Kristy about, you know,
what do you want to talk about?
I'm like, well, what is shit?
I haven't told my mom.
(22:39):
And it, it was that, that Iwrote into the Google form and
then I went home for theholidays and I said, or I can
just tell my mom this shit now.
And it was hard.
But then I said, oh, well, isthis going to be a relevant
episode?
Because I already did the thingthat I wasn't supposed to share
(22:59):
yet, but I thought about it alot.
And so, you know, it was reallya blessing to hear them receive
it in that way.
because, you know, I froze myeggs and I was a little
concerned that they wouldn't becomfortable with that.
You know, science andCatholicism don't always always
apply.
and yet they were totally greatabout it.
(23:20):
And I think it's because theysaw how, like how much foresight
I was applying here.
you know, my type a Capricornself was on full blast with, you
know, wanting to plan forsomething I may not need that
costs 16 freaking thousanddollars, but was worth an
important investment in myfuture and maybe my family's
future.
and so they were all about it.
(23:41):
and so I was really surprised,but I joke to friends that, you
know, for Asian immigrants,Catholic immigrant parents, you
know, it's like telling them.
That they have guaranteedgrandchildren without
intercourse.
So of course we're going to beokay with this.
but you know, they were reallygreat about it.
And, you know, having, you know,eggs on ice is like something
(24:04):
that has taken definitely a lotof pressure off, but it's,
what's allowed me to really stepinto the idea that maybe not
being married or maybe nothaving kids, or maybe not being
married with kids can be a veryviable and valid option for me
that still conjures the samelevel of happiness.
If I were to be married withkids, which was a goal I had for
(24:26):
35 years up until very recently.
And so sitting with that hasreally helped me to just feel
more at ease if I'm on thedating apps and just like, just
be living life for myself andnot in search of something that
is going to make me morecomplete.
but I'm really finding that, youknow, let's hang out with
yourself, see if you like her.
(24:46):
And if you do.
Then that should be enough.
And if something else comesalong, that's icing on the cake,
but it's not the cake.
Kristy Yee (24:52):
Yes, yes.
To all of that.
what I'm actually hearing is,you had shit that you haven't
told mom, and it's been carryingaround with you for a while.
And then when you decided totell mom, yeah, it's really
fucking scary because you havethese expectations of how
they're going to respond.
You had an expectation of howmom was going to react, how
(25:15):
Papa's going to react.
And, you know, we have thisinnate reaction to want to
protect ourselves too.
So we don't want to get shitfrom our parents.
So we're just not going to tellthem, but it's also so
liberating and sometimes theymight surprise you.
And because you have stated yourcase, you have earned their
trust.
From all of the decisions thatyou have ever made in your life.
(25:37):
And you're able to show and say,Hey, I am a smart woman.
I have done all of these things.
I haven't fucked up yet,basically.
And th these are my choices.
These are what I'm thinkingabout right now.
And I want to share this withyou because I respect you and
you're my parents.
And you should probably know.
And they took it a lot betterthan how we might think they
would in our own heads.
(25:57):
That, to me, sounds like it's,it's building another level of
relationship with your parents.
Totally
Angie Yu (26:05):
So I have from perspective, like I'm so happy
that you ended up going home andtelling your parents that
because.
Like, I almost teared up hearingthat because to have that moment
with your parents, like, I havebeen through something similar
as well, where I really heldsomething back from telling my
parents.
And when I actually did, like,they also surprised me.
but also just from what you weresaying earlier about how, you
(26:27):
know, you chose the five cardsfor yourself.
You want to leave the otherbattles, just, you know, that's
almost like an emotional laborfor your parents, right?
Cause you don't want them to gothrough that.
And that shows a lot of love andhow much your parents want to
protect you from this world isalso a lot of love.
So in your stories, I feel a lotof love coming from that.
(26:49):
So because of that, like, Iwasn't as surprised by their
reaction, you know?
I can sense the love that yourfamily and how much love they
raised you with, and especiallyseeing what you're doing now for
the world.
Like, again, that's more love,right?
So I just wanted to inject thatlittle machinists in there
(27:11):
because that's what I'm feelingfrom listening to your story.
So thank you for sharing that.
Justine Ang Fonte (27:16):
Well, thank you for that perspective, Angie
you're right.
you know, I, cause I think causewhen I was, when I was dating,
that first black boyfriend, whatI had realized in that process
was how unhappy my parents were,which then tainted my happiness
with my boyfriend.
And I didn't like that.
My parents' happiness wasdetermined based on me, obeying
(27:40):
them, even if it meant me notbeing happy, I really wanted
them to be separate things.
And you know, the respectiveparty gets the therapy.
They need to like regainhappiness.
I also knew that.
It was unlikely that therapy wasgoing to be had on the other
end.
So it was like a, what can Icontrol?
And if they're unhappy, I have to learn
(28:02):
to sit with that unhappiness.
If it means I am doing, what'sactually a right and authentic
with my, for myself.
So then I just get the therapy.
I need to sit with that tensionand that is how it's going to
be.
But I was really convinced that,you know, after I'd ended it
with him, that now, like whenI'm swiping and when I'm, you
know, starting to date, am Idating for my parents?
(28:26):
So that it's just going to beeasier for them because I love
them so much as Angie wassaying.
And it was interesting becauseafter those two men, I had dated
a Filipino Catholic church goingfinance job.
And I was like, okay, he's goodenough.
(28:49):
For, I think my parents on paperand he seems really great for
me, what a great match.
And we dated for a long enoughtime for me to realize that over
time I actually was dating himfor my parents.
I was putting a lot of thingsunder the rug for, you know, the
two and a half years we weretogether.
(29:10):
And it wasn't really, until Ibroke up with him, that my
therapist asked me, when do youthink you had that first seed
planted?
That it probably wasn't a goodmatch.
And I was thinking and thinking,and I realized it was about six
months in and yet I was with himand lived with him and did
(29:31):
couples therapy with him for twoyears after that seed was
already there.
But why didn't I listen to thatseed?
And it's because I kept thinkinghe's good enough for mom and pop
and I can fix this word incouples therapy.
It's going to get.
He's coachable enough and that'snot the way to date someone,
right?
(29:51):
They're not a fixer-upper youwant the whole thing to be
pretty much there for the mostpart, but I realized that I
endured it and it was so hopefulbecause I saw how happy my
parents were with me being witha Filipino investment banker who
went to church on Sundays, onhis own volition.
(30:13):
And, you know, my parents werehappy that, you know, I'd found
someone that I think they hadalways wanted me to be with.
And that's when I, when I brokeup with him, they were totally
good.
They were like, oh, I can'tbelieve that that happened.
Or he said that, or he did that,or he didn't do that or
whatever.
And they were totally great and,you know, caring, but it was so
(30:35):
ingrained in me with the otherrelationships I'd had about how
unhappy they were that seeingtheir happy.
It's something, you know, thatis great, but can't be the
reason I stay.
and so it's just been, it's beena battle in recognizing, you
know, my parents are in theirseventies and yes, I want them
(30:56):
to be able to maximize qualitytime with me that isn't fighting
all the time about, you know,how different we are.
but also not compromising my ownvalues and my own boundaries,
for them.
And that's a tricky thing toreconcile and I'm always still
working through it.
so that's why I've come to the,you know, pick your battles.
(31:19):
How many cards do you have, howmuch energy is going to take for
you to do this thing you'drather not do, but you'll do it
anyway because what's moreimportant is saving that energy
for the bigger things, but, youknow, two and a half years to
date someone for not yourself, Ahuge undertaking.
(31:41):
but I learned a lot from itabout myself, about my
relationship with my parents,and you know, what my needs are,
but that's a hard lesson tolearn.
And in that way,
Kristy Yee (31:52):
first of all, I'm just running through a mental
checklist of all the things anddecisions that I have ever made.
And even ones that I am in rightnow, am I doing them for me or
am I doing them for otherpeople?
And I think a lot of ourlisteners listening to this
episode right now are probablyhaving thinking about their own
(32:14):
decision making process.
And considering was that reallyfor me?
Or is it because this checkboxthat has been ingrained in us
for so long.
We end up internalizing it andthinking that that is what we
want when really it's not.
And it can be so exhaustingbecause that means you're not
(32:35):
living your own authentic life.
And it's not easy todifferentiate that because these
lessons have been so ingrained.
We think this is what we want.
And it's hard to tease out, isit what I want?
Or is it because I'm told that'swhat I want.
Justine Ang Fonte (32:53):
Yup.
Struggle's
Kristy Yee (32:57):
real.
The other thing that you alsosaid was we shouldn't be dating
fixer uppers, and I don't knowwhere we learn that from, but I
find thinking about my own pastrelationships, I think I do go
for fixer uppers thinking that,okay, they have checked all of
these boxes.
The other things I will justignore, I will just ignore,
(33:18):
sweep them under a rug.
plus the honeymoon stage kind ofglosses things over anyways.
And then once you get past thathoneymoon stage, then you're
like, okay, well then all thoseother things that I was ignoring
and sweeping underneath the rug,I probably shouldn't ignore them
anymore, but I can fix them.
I can fix them because we can goto couples therapy because we,
we will talk about these thingsbecause I believe so strongly in
(33:38):
this relationship that I thinkwe can do this.
And.
And then it ends up being like atask on you, but it's not really
a together thing.
You know what I mean?
I'm not saying people cannot fixtheir relationships.
I'm saying a lot of times, oneparty does a lot more heavy
lifting than the other thinkingthat that is their
responsibility.
(33:59):
Yeah.
Justine Ang Fonte (33:59):
And in heterosexual relationships, a
lot of times the onus is on thewoman because of how socialized
she has been to caregive,caretake accommodate and not
prioritize her needs oversomebody else's.
So we tend to stomach a lot ofthese things and, you know,
(34:20):
it's, it's, it's alwaysfrustrates me when people say,
when they find out like the sexof the baby that they're about
to have and be like, oh, sogood.
You're having a boy.
They're much easier to raise.
Why are they much easier?
Because girls fucking fixedeverything for any of the
problems they creates.
That's what.
Girls are more difficult becausewe are built to actually fix
(34:43):
humans problems.
And most of those humans have apenis
Angie Yu (34:49):
yeah.
Actually I remember a friend whosaid, do girls really mature
faster?
Or is it just because we're notallowed to get away with as much
shit as men are, right.
Justine Ang Fonte (34:59):
Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
We are more complicated humansbecause of the amount of work
and the burden that is expectedfor us to put out there, to fix
world's problems and be okay.
Not taking credit for it becausewe were expected to do it in the
beginning.
So that whole like boys will beboys is because we don't expect
(35:21):
boys to be able to do anythingbetter than fuck up.
And then we come in and clean itup girls to fix it.
Right.
So like the whole gender rolesthing.
If we go back to like, how doeslike sexuality, you know,
intersect with, you know, myidentity and my experiences it's
like, where does it not
Kristy Yee (35:41):
you're right.
Where does it not because somuch of that learning about what
a woman's role is in societycomes from our parents, but also
comes from all those otherplaces where we learn shit, like
from school, from friends, frommedia, from books we read
(36:01):
characters that we get to know.
Right.
We see that.
And then we emulate that andthen we internalize it.
We think that that should be ourplace or our identity or our
responsibility when really it'sreally fucking exhausting.
Yeah.
I want to go back to.
Racism because I find in theChinese community, it's, it's
(36:26):
still very pervasive.
And I know there's a lot of workdone to unlearn.
I'm curious to know.
Have you had a difficultconversation with your parents
when you were dating your blackX's and you saw how different
they reacted, you saw how theaunties had reacted.
Did you ever confront them aboutit?
Justine Ang Fonte (36:49):
I did.
more than once it was, it wasdefinitely the biggest strain
I've ever had, between myparents.
And we're very tight where likethe FA I'm my relationship with
my parents is like there'stexting every day.
And if there isn't a call everyother day, I get guilt trips for
not having called the daybefore.
(37:09):
So, but you know, it's, it'snever feels obligatory.
It's like, I always just want toshare with my mom, like what I'm
going to cook that evening andtell my dad about the newest gig
offer I got for some job orsomething.
And so it's, you know, it's,it's a very comfortable, level
of communication.
but it's also become like thisexpectation now.
And so when you know, theserelationships were happening,
(37:30):
there were months of nocommunication whatsoever.
There were, you know, phonesthat were hung up on in the
middle of conversations.
and you know, there was.
There were a lot ofdiscrepancies in how we talked
about this with a lot of itrooted in, I fear for your
safety.
We've worked so hard to get youto a position in your life where
(37:51):
you don't have to struggle likewe had.
And I don't want that to, youknow, I don't want any of that
ease to now be retracted becauseof a burden you will start to
share with someone who's, youknow, life has been systemically
set up to not be easy.
and I don't want you to have totake that on.
(38:12):
So they, you know, they believethat they don't deserve that,
but they don't want to make thatbecome their problem.
Even if they're doing some typesof work on the outside to try to
fix it on, you know, a much moremacro scale, pick the easier
path is basically the, was theparenting advice.
And this is not the easiest.
(38:32):
So why, why are you doing this?
And your choice is going toaffect everyone, not just you
and your immediate family thatyou're choosing to possibly
create with him.
Kristy Yee (38:44):
Wow.
I think so much of that soundsit's again, it's what Angie
said.
It's, it's coming from a placeof love.
It's coming from a place ofprotection.
They have built this lifeimmigrating to America so that
their offsprings can have abetter life so that it's not,
it's not as hard as it was forthem.
And I think every singleimmigrant family has a similar
(39:07):
story.
That's why they immigrated.
And any disruption to thatsafety net that's really
uncomfortable.
Did you ever get to a placewhere you were able to convince
your parents that it's okay.
To be dating a black man?
Justine Ang Fonte (39:24):
No, I was successful in with other isms,
and you know, phobic thingsthat, you know, they, they have,
taken on.
And so that's why I was sodetermined to be able to try to
do the same with this, issue.
And, and I wasn't.
And so I'm always stillconcerned that, you know, if I
end up in a similar position,what that conversation is going
(39:46):
to be like, or if maybe they'vecome around by that point, you
know, this was many, these were,this was many years ago already.
but you know, rocking the boatwhen you have the privilege of
being so adjacent to whitenessis super hard to, to allow.
and so I get it, but that's notsomething I know I want to
(40:09):
perpetuate.
and that's not something that myparents who have worked so hard
to assimilate want to give up,and that's just something we're
always going to agree todisagree on.
I understand why, and I lovethem for the things that they
are offering me, which is morethan not, to be happy and
(40:31):
successful.
And then there's this one smallsliver that we'll never agree
on.
And that's why I have an amazingtherapist to be able to just sit
with that and be okay with thatsliver, not outweighing the, you
know, the other wonderfulaspects of our relationship.
Kristy Yee (40:48):
Yep.
I don't let that sliver cloudeverything else up.
And it almost goes back to thefirst takeaway was pick your
battles and.
Agreeing to disagree and thenmove on from that.
And if the conversation needs tocome up again, later in the
future, it might go in adifferent direction.
(41:09):
We don't know.
Right?
Like, like we just mentionedearlier, sometimes when we have
difficult conversations, wealready have this expectation of
how another person's going toreact.
Maybe it, it will be differentand maybe it won't, but when
that time comes, then that'smaybe that's when you decide to
take out one of those five cardsand, and then we'll go from
there.
Justine Ang Fonte (41:28):
Yeah.
Kristy Yee (42:28):
So Angie and I are in our early thirties right now,
we are at a place where we thinkabout having kids because that's
what is expected of us.
So we, we think like that iswhat we want as well.
And then we also think about nothaving kids and.
I have been upfront about beingon team, no kid for a really
(42:51):
long time, as I'm getting older,I feel like, am I so strongly on
the team?
No kid.
Angie has started out as teampro.
Yeah.
I want kids period.
Very strong about that.
And then now she's starting to,you know, consider not having
(43:11):
kids.
So basically we were on polaropposites and, and now we're
like, we're starting to meet inthe middle, which is an even
more difficult place becausethere's no strong stance in what
we want.
We're just pivoting back andforth.
Yeah.
How did you come to a placewhere you feel strongly about
the decision you have made now?
Justine Ang Fonte (43:34):
So the decision isn't that I'm, you
know, my decision.
Has only changed in that I amallowing for another option to
be as valid.
It's not as extreme of like nowI'm a no kids person, right?
I'm not, I'm not, I'm trying tolike, not think about the fact
that I could have wasted 16grand on free egg freezing,
(43:56):
because I feel like I need tonow use one of them because of
how much I spent.
Right.
But, that was always my plan I'mgoing to get married by 27 and
I'm going to have four kids atleast two years apart.
And, two of those kids will beadopted and that was always my
plan.
And it seemed to likebiologically make sense.
(44:19):
if I had actually executed thatplan at 27, but it did not work
out with white boyfriends, sothen plans change.
And then I said, okay, I couldstill do four.
Well, that's what, you know,adoption adds that buffer to my,
you know, biological clock.
So that's okay.
So I could still have this planand start at, you know, 35 or
34, whatever, and then Filipinoboyfriend didn't work out.
(44:44):
So then I'm like, okay, well Imight be able to knock out one
biological kid, with my eggs orwithout them.
and then I've just started toget into, you know, now in age
at 36, where a lot of my closefriends who are my same age are
now getting divorced or are nowhaving a kid and just learning
(45:12):
this new side of a personalityin their partner.
Because they're a differentperson as a parent, or they're
not the person they expected asa parents.
And so now I have 36 year oldpeers that are surrounding me,
who are either on the brink ofdivorce already divorced or in
very unhappy homes.
(45:34):
And then I'm thinking in mysingle life, why am I swiping so
damn hard for that?
That's so why are you trying sohard?
And then it's already hard justto find someone right.
And the thing that I mentionedabout these, these friends of
(45:55):
mine is that I stood by them ontheir wedding days, really
feeling like this is an actualmarriage that I am totally.
They are super healthy.
I've known both of them for Xamount of time.
I feel good about this.
I have zero qualms.
And yet with that, like that,that solid foundation, they're
(46:23):
on the brink of divorce.
So then I'm like, all right,well, I already know I'm not
going to lower my standards andthat I have standards and I'm
looking for this and that.
But even with that, that's not aguarantee it's going to stick
and it's going to work and it'sgoing to be immune from thinking
about divorce.
and you know, and then once youbust out a kid and you bust out
(46:43):
a second kid, it makes sensethat it's going to strain your
relationship.
So not only have like mystandards have, you know, stayed
in like how I'm dating, but I'meven now to the point where.
I don't even need someone to tryto meet those standards because
maybe it's impossible and that'snot worth like my unhappiness.
(47:04):
And so if I end up having to dothis on my own, what would that
look like on my own terms?
And I thought, well, I wouldknow that like the kind of
career mom I would want to be isone that would need a full on
other adult presence.
That person doesn't have to be ahusband.
(47:24):
That person doesn't have to benecessarily a co-parent that I'm
not married to.
I just know need like at least ananny present at all times.
So that means that I need to bemaking a certain level of income
to have two full on adultspresent to raise this kid.
And I'm thinking about my job asa freelancer in sex education.
And I'm like, it may not bepossible that I reached that
(47:45):
income.
Therefore, I don't bring a kidinto that.
I am so pro the life of thechild that I won't have one, if
I can't give them the life thatI want to give them.
And so that mentality has mademe realize, okay, so you're
going to be cool on see Justinearound the globe and maybe not
(48:09):
mom.
And you were someone that wantedfour.
I still want four, but I need tobe four times as rich as I'm
planning on being so that I canhave all the nannies to make
this happen.
Right.
I also need to find like someonewho's wanting for, from someone
who's already 36 years old.
Right.
So I still have this assomething I want, but it's no
(48:33):
longer the only goal that willlead to happiness.
It might be for kids and itmight be no kids.
And I'm starting to believe thatthe happiness is equal.
And that's the new thing.
That's the mindset change thatI've made and decision I've made
to allow that as an option?
Kristy Yee (48:55):
I think what not, I think what I have just learned
from what you have shared isit's not about picking one
direction or another.
It's not about being fixated on,I want to be a mom or I want to
be a cool rich auntie with nokids.
It's not about picking that oneidentity and trying to strive
for it is looking at all of thedifferent options and allowing
(49:19):
all of those options to beviable.
Right.
Justine Ang Fonte (49:22):
It's widening our definition.
Of success, because for me, itwas always like, I'm going to be
married.
I'm going to have kids.
And that's what success slashhappiness looks like.
So keep swiping, keep swiping,worked really hard, you know,
put it under the rug.
He's good enough.
He's coachable, whatever.
And then I'm like, there's gotto be another way because I've
(49:47):
been doing that routine for 12years in New York city and New
York city dating is its ownbeast and I'm tired.
So, you know, I feel like wehave to allow for our own mental
health and our longevity thatit's possible to be happy and
more than one ways.
(50:07):
Why do I, why am I putting somuch pressure and weight and
giving so much credit to onething, one place, one person to
give you all that happy.
Right.
And so, you know, in the wayI've even talked to like my high
school seniors, who are you say,like, I'll only be happy if I go
to this one.
If this one school accepts meand I was not hit, I was that
(50:29):
kid.
Do you know who is told?
Like, if I don't get into thisone school, my life is over.
And I didn't realize until Ibecame a teacher and realizing,
you know, the life that I'vehad, that, why am I giving so
much power to this oneinstitution to provide me with
all this happiness, same thing.
Why am I putting so much powerin the institution of marriage
(50:50):
to give me happiness?
Oh, wait a minute.
It's because I've bought in tocapitalism being the thing that
tells me happiness is onlyviable with marriage.
And that's why the weddingindustry is so profitable and
multi-million dollar.
(51:10):
And that's also why the divorcerate is also something that has
conjured so much profit indivorce lawyers, because it's
the whole system of make more,make more, make more.
This is why you have to look acertain way in order to fit into
that wedding dress.
And that dress better be adressed that's white, don't do
anything.
That's like, you know, Versiveof that.
(51:31):
This is the only one way for awedding to really be, and you'll
need at least five bridesmaiddresses because that's just
what's traditional is.
And, but I mean, there's just somany things layered in, like
they really figured it out.
They learn how to steal ourmoney by convincing us that this
is what happiness looks like.
They do that with beautystandards.
They do that with hallmarkholidays.
(51:52):
They do that with, you know,Valentine's day, whatever it is,
like they figured out a way tojust take more of our money
because we've bought into theidea that that will therefore
lead to happiness.
And so part of it.
You know, decolonizing isrecognizing that there is many,
there are many ways for you tolive.
(52:13):
it doesn't have to be this onethat you're giving all this one,
this power to.
So it's been really liberating.
So one give less fucks and thento also just know, okay, success
and happiness is more than onething.
Wow, it's a game changer.
I can just now live and live mybest life and not feel guilty
(52:34):
about it because it doesn't looklike what bridal magazine told
me.
Kristy Yee (52:39):
So Mike drop, one give less fucks two all the
fucking options are viable andyou don't need to stick to one.
They can all be available at thesame time.
You can do whatever you want.
Three is controlling what youcan control and not having other
(53:01):
people and other messages justfuck around with you.
And it's not your responsibilityto fix other people.
You just control what you cancontrol.
You share your piece into theworld.
If they accept it.
Great.
If they don't, then we, we agreeto disagree and we peace out.
And then finally it's pick yourbattles, conserve that energy.
(53:22):
Save it for what matters to youbecause there are only five
cards.
So figure out what it is that isimportant to you.
And then all the other stuff youcan just either give less fucks
about, or if it doesn't cost youthat much energy, whatever.
Justine Ang Fonte (53:36):
That's a great cliff note.
Thank you,
Kristy Yee (53:39):
Christie.
Thank you Justine, for sharingall of your wisdom with us
today, how are you feeling?
Justine Ang Fonte (53:46):
Good.
I, I feel, refresh to be able toshare some different type of
content than I've shared inother podcasts.
So thank you for asking thosequestions and giving me a
platform to share my
Kristy Yee (53:58):
answers.
So Justine, I have one lastquestion for you before we end.
Our episode is out of all ofthose major topics that we
talked about, we talked aboutsexuality.
We talked about racism.
We talked about conserving yourenergy and we talked about
liberating the self out of anyof those topics.
What would be an advice that youcould give to a younger audience
(54:23):
or just to your younger self?
Justine Ang Fonte (54:25):
I mean, I like all of those.
I think the main one for ayounger self specifically, would
be, you know, the language, ageappropriate version of give less
fucks because during, especiallystarting really during puberty,
you know, this is whereinsecurity starts to build and
grow because of what your bodyis changing into that is aligned
(54:48):
or not aligned with what youhoped and dreamed for yourself.
And on top of that, you're sentall of these messages as to what
beauty actually is or worthyactually is while trying to also
just navigate the sociallandscape because you have an
innate human desire to belong.
So I get that.
I wish more middle schools gavestudents enough self-esteem to
(55:12):
understand belonging withquality and not just for capital
because the number of followersor the number of people sitting
with you at the cafeteria tableare not necessarily going to
tell us the actual measure ofhappiness that we have.
and I was a very strong, I'm arecovering people, pleaser, and
(55:37):
I, you know, someone that wasfriends with everyone, And
there's been things that haveproven helpful from, from that,
you know, those efforts, but itreally wasn't until my, you
know, late twenties where Istarted to realize what quality
friendships mean and setboundaries in order to maintain
(55:58):
friendships that actually serveme and my happiness and not out
of obligation or out of fear ofguilt of leaving.
And I feel like if I took thaton when I was younger and really
just didn't care about,belonging in so many groups or
certain groups, I think I wouldhave been able to make more room
(56:19):
for other things, to explore whoJustine was.
so I would say to my youngerself and, you know, the younger
generation, think moreintentionally about the quality
of belonging you're looking for.
And not just to belong to sayyou belong somewhere.
Kristy Yee (56:38):
I love that.
Thank you so much for being withus on the show today.
Justine,
Justine Ang Fonte (56:42):
thank you for having me.
In today's episode, we have Justine Ang Fante, a
raised Catholic Filipino.
And we talk about how thedefinition of dating love and
marriage conflicts with ourAsian immigrant parents,
specifically dating someone toappease our parents racism, in
interracial relationships, oursexuality, the choice of having
kids or no kids, and how all ofthis is related to
(00:21):
decolonization Welcome back toanother episode.
(00:50):
Today.
We have Justine Ang Fante, whois a sex educator, specializing
in intersectional health.
She is a Filipina American wholives in New York city, loves to
bake and loves to share what shebakes with all her friends and
neighbors and people, and justspread love that way.
Something that Justine reallywould like to talk more about is
(01:11):
being comfortable with hersexuality, but also how our
sexuality can sometimes conflictwith our Asian immigrant
parents, assimulations.
And that is something I feellike I can relate to a lot as a
fellow Asian American, AsianCanadian person who is educated
(01:34):
in Western culture.
And more open about sexuality,but when you come home, then
that door gets closed and wejust do not talk about sex.
So I'm really curious to hearfrom your perspective, Justine,
like what are your thoughts onhow our sexuality conflicts with
our Asian immigrant parents?
Justine Ang Fonte (01:54):
Well, specifically around like what
marriage and family expectationsare.
I think that the expectation asan Asian girl daughter in an
Asian family is that youpropagate your family's gene
pool with other little Asianbabies.
(02:15):
And that expectation is set at areally early age where they are
group really teaching you andraising you right from the get,
go to be.
Someone that is a caretaker andto prioritize somebody else's
needs over your own.
And that gender role aspectdefinitely starts to define your
(02:35):
own identity at an early age.
Even if it's not something youplan on doing or want to do.
and then just the lack ofcommunication around, sexual
health is something that I thinka lot of people, become ill
informed when the stakes arehigher and they're left with
trying to just figure it outbecause it's not something their
parents talked to them about ordid.
(02:57):
So in a way that was loving andnurturing and more so punitive,
if you had messed up or someonein your family had quote, messed
up and then them telling youthis won't happen to you because
we're supposed to be perfect.
And there's only shame attachedto something that was unplanned,
or not meeting, you know, whatwe expect from you.
There's not a lot ofcommunication about, you know,
(03:18):
sex and sexuality.
and then there's an expectationthat after, you know, not having
had any romantic partners untilyou're finished with that
school, it's supposed to justpop out grandchildren for them
ASAP without ever having had aconversation as to what a
healthy relationship looks like,that you can date in high school
and not, you know, flunk out ofclass.
(03:40):
And so there's, a really astruggle, I think for a lot of,
you know, kids of, Asianimmigrants where they don't know
how to navigate the datingworld, because it's not
something that was openly talkedabout or, normalized as, you
know, as teenagers.
And then we're expected to justbe like rabbits producing all
the grandchildren, when therewasn't really any, practice
(04:03):
prior.
Kristy Yee (04:04):
I hate all of that because.
growing up, I've never had anyquote, unquote sex talk from my
parents.
By the time I got to high schooland then, you know, having
crushes on boys, wanting todate, then of course it's no,
you cannot date until you havefinished all your education.
And then we'll talk about it Andso zero sex talks, zero talks
(04:25):
about dating zero talks abouthow to have a healthy
relationship, but what is datingand some parts of it.
I don't blame my parents becauseat least my parents, they didn't
date.
They also just listened to theirparents as well.
Their parents pick their spousesand they're like, yeah, you guys
are going to get married andbust out some babies.
And, and so that's all theyknow, and they pass that down to
(04:47):
me.
So they wouldn't even know howto give me dating advice.
But what I find reallyfrustrating is.
The moment you get out ofschool.
When are you going to getmarried?
Where are you going to havekids?
Where are my grandkids?
Like you ain't getting anyyounger,
Justine Ang Fonte (05:02):
yeah, you're not alone.
Angie Yu (05:04):
I am a little bit more fortunate in the sense that when
my parents immigrated to Canada,my mom decided to go into early
childhood education.
And through that program, shepicked up a lot of more Western
upbringing.
methods.
So she, she knows that like,Hey, everything needs to be like
positive reinforcement.
you need to be open-minded withyour kids, et cetera, et cetera.
(05:27):
So she has been a lot moreexposed to this type of stuff.
And she works at a pretty good,preschool, basically it's, it's,
almost government fundedprogram.
And so she gets, she goes to allthese workshops about a lot of
topics that are, you know,currently, at the top of
people's mind, for example, likehomosexuality or trans people.
(05:49):
So this is something that shewas obviously was never, ever
exposed to and because of theenvironment that she works in,
she's a lot more open-minded.
So I have.
Had the fortune of seeing hermind being transformed as well,
because she did used to be, alittle bit homophobic as most
immigrant parents are or still,yeah, we're we're are.
(06:09):
but the funny thing is, eventhough my mom is very
open-minded in that regard, Ican see in her behavior and
things that she says to me thatthere's still a lot of conflict
for her.
So after the end of my lastrelationship, my mom was very,
open-minded like, you know, likeyou don't really need to get
married.
you don't need to have childrento be happy in this life.
(06:30):
I just want you to be happy.
But now that I'm in arelationship, she starting to
kind of push for grandchildrenagain.
so it's kind of funny for me tosee that too, because it just, I
see so much conflict within heras well, even though she has
been exposed to this educationand I feel, I see that conflict
in myself as.
Yeah.
So, you know, like it's reallyhard for us to unlearn that.
(06:52):
And Justine, you mentioned that,you know, you grew up in a
Filipino family, like you haveall this, culture instilled in
you, have you ever seen aconflict arise in your, in what
you do now and how you wereraised?
Justine Ang Fonte (07:06):
Every day, I'm not just Filipino, but I was
raised Catholic and I am afull-time sex educator.
All of those things, do not getalong.
And the number one opposition inmy career is the Roman Catholic
church, right?
When it comes to homosexuality,when it comes to marriage, when
(07:28):
it comes to, marriage first,before you can have kids, when
it comes to reproductive rights,right?
All of this is completelycontrary to how I was raised.
and what I now teach inclassrooms and, you know, on
stages is very contrary to thatupbringing.
(07:48):
So I'm constantly in conflictwith, how I was raised.
And now what I am raisingyounger generations to buy into.
Kristy Yee (07:57):
How did you get to.
Where you are now from where youhad come from, in terms of your
understanding of what dating is,what love is with marriages,
what babies are about sex, andthen to where you stand now,
educating younger folks andspeaking about sexuality in a
very open way.
Justine Ang Fonte (08:18):
I don't know if it was really, I a moment,
but I think it's a combinationof my experiences, both
personally and professionally,that really reaffirmed that I'm
in the right place doing theright thing.
So on the professional.
Vain.
I had been a sex educator as ahigh school senior for my last
(08:41):
year of high school, kind of asa volunteer service learning
project.
and so that was like my realfirst introduction to what sex
ed even was.
And I was teaching things that Iwas never taught, you know, in
middle school or high school.
and then I had pursued, amaster's in education.
So I was working in a school, asa seventh and eighth grade math
teacher and I had pregnantmiddle-schoolers.
(09:04):
So I saw a direct connection tohow they're health was something
infringing on their academicachievement.
So then that connection was madecontinued on to get the master's
in public health, with aspecialization in sexuality.
And I had done my practicum inthe Philippines where my family
is from doing an investigationon how their first year of the
(09:27):
department of education sex edpilot was doing.
It was quite abstinence only.
Based kind of sex ed.
and I was seeing its directimpact to why there are 80
students in one classroom withone teacher and why families
were trying to figure out how tostay afloat in buying a
(09:47):
sufficient number of bags ofrice for the four extra children
they never planned on having.
So now there's eight of them.
So I started to see like howeconomy education was being
impacted by family planning, notbeing something normalized or
taught early on.
and then in my actual classroomand own experiences,
(10:08):
professionally teaching, I'mseeing how much of an impact.
Is in the prevention of a lot ofthese things with my students in
New York city, with studentsthat I'm teaching in the U S and
how understanding theirauthentic self, beyond them as a
sexual being also means theirsexuality and their gender
identity and being theirauthentic self, being so
(10:30):
liberating as something thatthey can be in sixth grade
already, as opposed to waitinguntil they're an adults getting
divorced, because they have justlearned or just realized or come
into their own that it was okayto be gay.
And so being able to reallydismantle those oppressions in
classroom settings with youngpopulations is a really powerful
(10:52):
affirming.
I had paired all of thatprofessional background with my
personal dating experiences.
My first romantic partner was,when I was a junior in high
school, but I didn't tell myparents that he was my boyfriend
for the first year of dating.
and what was actually helpfulabout that lie was that by the
second year, when I decided Iwas going to tell them, I've
(11:15):
actually been dating him for ayear, my parents still busted
out the same rebuttals that theyprobably would have said when I
just started dating him.
Well, what's going to happenwith your studies.
What's going to happen with yourtennis, how are you going to be
able to focus?
And I said, well, if you take alook at the last 365 days,
(11:36):
studies in tennis have not beencompromised, right.
Like I have evidence here andthen were like, oh, oh, she's
really.
But she can't say that out loud.
Right?
My mom can't say that out loud.
So, you know, it was somethinghard.
It was really hard for myparents to grapple with the fact
that like, oh, I'm coming intoadulthood and this is something
(11:58):
that's natural for our daughter,but they're still thinking that
this is only bad and leads to atattoo, riding a motorcycle and
shooting up heroin.
And you know, that is not thecase and getting pregnant while
you're doing all of that andthen also getting pregnant.
Right.
and so it was really hard forthem to accept that I had, you
know, that I am, you know,someone that can fall in love
(12:20):
that can be loved by someoneoutside of a family member.
but I understand that it's allrooted in safety.
They're afraid that, you know,if I lose focus on the things
that have helped them survive asan immigrant in the United
States, I'm going to have a hardtime and all they've ever wanted
is for me to have a life paththat is much easier than what
(12:42):
they had to endure.
So I get it.
And then, you know, as I'mdating, you know, then they
became used to the fact that,oh, okay.
So after that relationship, shemight have another relationship.
And this is all before, youknow, a master's program is
complete or a medical degree iscomplete.
And that is now a reality for usas parents of just and Fox.
(13:02):
and so all of that wasinteresting.
And then I came across, my firstboyfriend who was white, the
first two were Asian.
and it was a really healthy,long five-year relationship.
And I had noticed how happy myparents were in this
relationship.
and I figured because it was ahappy relationship.
I, that I.
(13:23):
But I had noticed comments fromaunties and other family members
that stemmed around howbeautiful our children would
look because of how Mr.
Lisa or Misty.
So they would be with beinglighter skin and having a
sharper nose.
And these were things that I'dalways known about, like the
Filipino stereotype and comicsthat I, you know, followed and
(13:43):
listened to.
and I just figured this is justsomething in general that is
that they just believe, but Ididn't really connect it to
racism yet until a couple ofboyfriends.
After that, I started dating ablack man and I saw their
complete opposite reactiondespite how healthy my
relationship was.
(14:04):
And again, it was rooted in aI'm scared for your safety.
It's not that you know, I don'tlike him.
But I don't want their problemsto now become our family's
problems.
And that was an interesting wayof looking at what that racism
is, because sure you can votefor Obama and you can be fine
(14:27):
with my black roommate, but whenit starts to enter potentially
your gene pool and it nowbecomes your family, that's a
responsibility that the allyship stops at.
And that was super interestingto me.
Cause that's when I directly sawhow opposite they reacted to my
white boyfriend and how they'rereacting to this black
(14:50):
boyfriend.
And after that relationshipended for, you know, reasons
that that had nothing to do withmy parents, the boyfriend, after
that also happens to be black.
And I felt that my familyreacted even stronger in anger
because they felt that.
I should have learned my lessonquote the first time.
(15:10):
And here I was now just onpurpose disobeying, the family
values.
Of protection and that was superhurtful and really, a revelation
and understanding where all thiswas coming from.
And it was also the beginning oflike my own decolonization work
that I had started to do in myown Philippina community.
(15:31):
So it wasn't just like a, oh, wewant lighter skin it's that we
don't want this to be a part ofus because their problems then
become our problems.
And that's when I started makingsense of anti-blackness in the
Filipino community, I was alwaysaware of anti indigenous, you
know, feelings in the Filipinocommunity.
But now just adding onto that asI was getting older, you know,
(15:51):
in my mid twenties, andabsorbing all of this while I'm
teaching about, you know, beautystandards in my own sex ed
classroom and sexuality in thoseclassrooms, seeing like how
those same colonial mentality.
Are infiltrating my own personallife.
So that's how I came to whereI'm at in, you know,
(16:11):
understanding sexuality and theway that I do and making sense
of my own lived reality as adating person.
and the consequences orramifications.
If I bring that news home to myfamily who might not be educated
in the same way that I havebeen.
Kristy Yee (16:27):
Wow, holy shit.
Angie Yu (16:30):
Like one, absolutely.
I can hear the passion ineverything you say, and you are
very eloquent.
So, you know, ladies andgentlemen, Justine really knows
what she's talking about.
Go check her out.
If you haven't already.
I like, for me, that's a lot toprocess.
and it seems like you havereached a point of kind of
acceptance that this family.
(16:51):
Is the way they are and you'rejust going to have to work
around that.
Is that right?
Justine Ang Fonte (16:55):
Yeah.
you know, Hasan Minhaj has thisone phrase that I've thought of.
So often since his homecomingking special came out about the
number of cards you're dealtwith, that you, that are worth
fighting for in your, with yourimmigrant family.
And so, you know, I could gohome and complain about how I
have to go to church with themagain, because it's the holidays
(17:18):
and it's around also mybirthday.
And when the Catholic church,there are so many times you're
expected to go to mass duringthe Christmas season.
And my birthday is December 30thand you're supposed to go to
mass on your birthday.
So I'm just going to church alot whenever I'm home in
December.
And I could make a whole thingof it, about where I'm at with
my Catholic faith, that doesn'tnecessitate needing to go to a
(17:41):
building to worship.
and I could do that every singletime.
But I also know that I am goingto stand strong with who I fall
in love with, and that's goingto be a very big fight,
potentially.
There's going to be a big fightabout how I want to raise my
kids if I have kids.
And that's more, those arefights that I want to preserve
(18:02):
my energy for than wasting it ona it's an hour in mass with my
parents.
And it makes them so happy.
And the amount of happiness thatit gives them is something
that's so outweighs.
The irritability I'll have forthose 60 minutes, this isn't the
card I'm going to actually playright now.
(18:24):
This isn't the one I'm going tosend a, save it for the bigger
ones.
Save it for the bigger ones onwho you're going to marry.
If you marry how you're going toraise your kids, what type of,
you know, religion you may ormay not, you know, take on,
like, those are the bigger ones.
And I'm thinking to senior onlyget five cards.
Don't waste it on the 60 minutesthat you can tolerate.
But there are other things Iwon't be able to tolerate and
(18:46):
I'm saving it for them
Kristy Yee (18:48):
that pick your battles and choose the ones that
you're really going to give ashit about because going to
mass, if it's going to appeasethem and it doesn't really hurt
me that much, whatever, I'll goto mass to make you feel happy.
But the shit that you're notgoing to stand for is how you're
going to raise your kids.
What religion, who you're gonnamarry, how the wedding is going
to be all these, all thesedecisions that you are not going
(19:12):
to pivot for, pick those as yourbattles.
Have you had a battle yet withfamily members about any of
these big ticketed five carditems?
Justine Ang Fonte (19:24):
no, because I have not yet been, you know,
engaged.
I have not yet been pregnant.
so those cards are still, youknow, waiting in their, in their
safe, have not been unlocked yetor used, but there was, an, I
came out to my parents about onething that falls under that
realm that, I was pleasantlyreally, surprised and grateful
(19:49):
for how my mom reacted.
And then what she told me, mydad said after she shared it,
and that was basically tellingthem that I may not even get
married and I'm okay with that.
I'm asking that you will be okaywith that too.
and I expected that to besomething bigger.
And of course there was alittle, you know, pushback, and
(20:10):
was like, yeah, but then howwill you, but then, but then
what if you want to have kidsand you don't have a man?
And I said, well, I have a spermbank that I could like look
into, but you won't know them.
I was like, well, I will do mydue diligence.
Just, I ha as I I've always beena good student, mom trained me
to be a good student.
I will do all of my research tomake sure that I, you know, find
(20:30):
that too.
And even if I were to know theman love the man date, the man
for five years, that doesn'tguarantee that he's going to be
a good husband, a good father,or be the same person that I
knew him for prior to becoming afather.
And we unfortunately have enoughbad statistics in our own family
(20:53):
to prove that marriages don'tstay.
a marriage for a variety ofdifferent reasons.
And so, you know, I think shefelt that I was right, but was
sad that I was right.
And then she really just pausedfor a bit and said, you know, of
course I want to havegrandchildren.
And I would think that that issomething that would make you
(21:14):
happy.
But if you're starting torealize now, you know that it
may not be something that couldmake you happy, or you're open
to the idea that you can stillhave a full fulfilled, valid
life without it.
Then I have to be happy for it.
I want you to make a choice andI've trust.
I trust you with all of thedifferent decisions you've made
in your, in your life.
(21:35):
That it's, it's a choice that'sbeen well thought out.
and so I was like driving withmy mom saying all this and like
tearing up and like, whoa, didmy mom just pull, you know, an
Angie Parentline on.
I just want you to be happybecause that's not a typical,
you know, Asian immigrant line.
because they may say this untilyou're dating a black man, even
(21:57):
if you're happy.
Right.
and so when they, my mom saidthis, I was like, okay.
And then the next day she toldme in the morning, I told her
Papa what you said to me lastnight in the car.
And I was like, and then my momsaid, well, and he said, you
know, Justine is a verythoughtful person and, you know,
she makes good joyous choices.
(22:17):
And if this is something, ifthat's something that, you know,
she can feel happy about stilltoo, then we have to just
support her.
She's an adults.
And so that's been a big.
Change in an effect for myparents around, around this,
this stuff.
And so that's been really agift.
So when you first, reached outto me, Kristy about, you know,
what do you want to talk about?
I'm like, well, what is shit?
I haven't told my mom.
(22:39):
And it, it was that, that Iwrote into the Google form and
then I went home for theholidays and I said, or I can
just tell my mom this shit now.
And it was hard.
But then I said, oh, well, isthis going to be a relevant
episode?
Because I already did the thingthat I wasn't supposed to share
(22:59):
yet, but I thought about it alot.
And so, you know, it was reallya blessing to hear them receive
it in that way.
because, you know, I froze myeggs and I was a little
concerned that they wouldn't becomfortable with that.
You know, science andCatholicism don't always always
apply.
and yet they were totally greatabout it.
(23:20):
And I think it's because theysaw how, like how much foresight
I was applying here.
you know, my type a Capricornself was on full blast with, you
know, wanting to plan forsomething I may not need that
costs 16 freaking thousanddollars, but was worth an
important investment in myfuture and maybe my family's
future.
and so they were all about it.
(23:41):
and so I was really surprised,but I joke to friends that, you
know, for Asian immigrants,Catholic immigrant parents, you
know, it's like telling them.
That they have guaranteedgrandchildren without
intercourse.
So of course we're going to beokay with this.
but you know, they were reallygreat about it.
And, you know, having, you know,eggs on ice is like something
(24:04):
that has taken definitely a lotof pressure off, but it's,
what's allowed me to really stepinto the idea that maybe not
being married or maybe nothaving kids, or maybe not being
married with kids can be a veryviable and valid option for me
that still conjures the samelevel of happiness.
If I were to be married withkids, which was a goal I had for
(24:26):
35 years up until very recently.
And so sitting with that hasreally helped me to just feel
more at ease if I'm on thedating apps and just like, just
be living life for myself andnot in search of something that
is going to make me morecomplete.
but I'm really finding that, youknow, let's hang out with
yourself, see if you like her.
(24:46):
And if you do.
Then that should be enough.
And if something else comesalong, that's icing on the cake,
but it's not the cake.
Kristy Yee (24:52):
Yes, yes.
To all of that.
what I'm actually hearing is,you had shit that you haven't
told mom, and it's been carryingaround with you for a while.
And then when you decided totell mom, yeah, it's really
fucking scary because you havethese expectations of how
they're going to respond.
You had an expectation of howmom was going to react, how
(25:15):
Papa's going to react.
And, you know, we have thisinnate reaction to want to
protect ourselves too.
So we don't want to get shitfrom our parents.
So we're just not going to tellthem, but it's also so
liberating and sometimes theymight surprise you.
And because you have stated yourcase, you have earned their
trust.
From all of the decisions thatyou have ever made in your life.
(25:37):
And you're able to show and say,Hey, I am a smart woman.
I have done all of these things.
I haven't fucked up yet,basically.
And th these are my choices.
These are what I'm thinkingabout right now.
And I want to share this withyou because I respect you and
you're my parents.
And you should probably know.
And they took it a lot betterthan how we might think they
would in our own heads.
(25:57):
That, to me, sounds like it's,it's building another level of
relationship with your parents.
Totally
Angie Yu (26:05):
So I have from perspective, like I'm so happy
that you ended up going home andtelling your parents that
because.
Like, I almost teared up hearingthat because to have that moment
with your parents, like, I havebeen through something similar
as well, where I really heldsomething back from telling my
parents.
And when I actually did, like,they also surprised me.
but also just from what you weresaying earlier about how, you
(26:27):
know, you chose the five cardsfor yourself.
You want to leave the otherbattles, just, you know, that's
almost like an emotional laborfor your parents, right?
Cause you don't want them to gothrough that.
And that shows a lot of love andhow much your parents want to
protect you from this world isalso a lot of love.
So in your stories, I feel a lotof love coming from that.
(26:49):
So because of that, like, Iwasn't as surprised by their
reaction, you know?
I can sense the love that yourfamily and how much love they
raised you with, and especiallyseeing what you're doing now for
the world.
Like, again, that's more love,right?
So I just wanted to inject thatlittle machinists in there
(27:11):
because that's what I'm feelingfrom listening to your story.
So thank you for sharing that.
Justine Ang Fonte (27:16):
Well, thank you for that perspective, Angie
you're right.
you know, I, cause I think causewhen I was, when I was dating,
that first black boyfriend, whatI had realized in that process
was how unhappy my parents were,which then tainted my happiness
with my boyfriend.
And I didn't like that.
My parents' happiness wasdetermined based on me, obeying
(27:40):
them, even if it meant me notbeing happy, I really wanted
them to be separate things.
And you know, the respectiveparty gets the therapy.
They need to like regainhappiness.
I also knew that.
It was unlikely that therapy wasgoing to be had on the other
end.
So it was like a, what can Icontrol?
And if they're unhappy, I have to learn
(28:02):
to sit with that unhappiness.
If it means I am doing, what'sactually a right and authentic
with my, for myself.
So then I just get the therapy.
I need to sit with that tensionand that is how it's going to
be.
But I was really convinced that,you know, after I'd ended it
with him, that now, like whenI'm swiping and when I'm, you
know, starting to date, am Idating for my parents?
(28:26):
So that it's just going to beeasier for them because I love
them so much as Angie wassaying.
And it was interesting becauseafter those two men, I had dated
a Filipino Catholic church goingfinance job.
And I was like, okay, he's goodenough.
(28:49):
For, I think my parents on paperand he seems really great for
me, what a great match.
And we dated for a long enoughtime for me to realize that over
time I actually was dating himfor my parents.
I was putting a lot of thingsunder the rug for, you know, the
two and a half years we weretogether.
(29:10):
And it wasn't really, until Ibroke up with him, that my
therapist asked me, when do youthink you had that first seed
planted?
That it probably wasn't a goodmatch.
And I was thinking and thinking,and I realized it was about six
months in and yet I was with himand lived with him and did
(29:31):
couples therapy with him for twoyears after that seed was
already there.
But why didn't I listen to thatseed?
And it's because I kept thinkinghe's good enough for mom and pop
and I can fix this word incouples therapy.
It's going to get.
He's coachable enough and that'snot the way to date someone,
right?
(29:51):
They're not a fixer-upper youwant the whole thing to be
pretty much there for the mostpart, but I realized that I
endured it and it was so hopefulbecause I saw how happy my
parents were with me being witha Filipino investment banker who
went to church on Sundays, onhis own volition.
(30:13):
And, you know, my parents werehappy that, you know, I'd found
someone that I think they hadalways wanted me to be with.
And that's when I, when I brokeup with him, they were totally
good.
They were like, oh, I can'tbelieve that that happened.
Or he said that, or he did that,or he didn't do that or
whatever.
And they were totally great and,you know, caring, but it was so
(30:35):
ingrained in me with the otherrelationships I'd had about how
unhappy they were that seeingtheir happy.
It's something, you know, thatis great, but can't be the
reason I stay.
and so it's just been, it's beena battle in recognizing, you
know, my parents are in theirseventies and yes, I want them
(30:56):
to be able to maximize qualitytime with me that isn't fighting
all the time about, you know,how different we are.
but also not compromising my ownvalues and my own boundaries,
for them.
And that's a tricky thing toreconcile and I'm always still
working through it.
so that's why I've come to the,you know, pick your battles.
(31:19):
How many cards do you have, howmuch energy is going to take for
you to do this thing you'drather not do, but you'll do it
anyway because what's moreimportant is saving that energy
for the bigger things, but, youknow, two and a half years to
date someone for not yourself, Ahuge undertaking.
(31:41):
but I learned a lot from itabout myself, about my
relationship with my parents,and you know, what my needs are,
but that's a hard lesson tolearn.
And in that way,
Kristy Yee (31:52):
first of all, I'm just running through a mental
checklist of all the things anddecisions that I have ever made.
And even ones that I am in rightnow, am I doing them for me or
am I doing them for otherpeople?
And I think a lot of ourlisteners listening to this
episode right now are probablyhaving thinking about their own
(32:14):
decision making process.
And considering was that reallyfor me?
Or is it because this checkboxthat has been ingrained in us
for so long.
We end up internalizing it andthinking that that is what we
want when really it's not.
And it can be so exhaustingbecause that means you're not
(32:35):
living your own authentic life.
And it's not easy todifferentiate that because these
lessons have been so ingrained.
We think this is what we want.
And it's hard to tease out, isit what I want?
Or is it because I'm told that'swhat I want.
Justine Ang Fonte (32:53):
Yup.
Struggle's
Kristy Yee (32:57):
real.
The other thing that you alsosaid was we shouldn't be dating
fixer uppers, and I don't knowwhere we learn that from, but I
find thinking about my own pastrelationships, I think I do go
for fixer uppers thinking that,okay, they have checked all of
these boxes.
The other things I will justignore, I will just ignore,
(33:18):
sweep them under a rug.
plus the honeymoon stage kind ofglosses things over anyways.
And then once you get past thathoneymoon stage, then you're
like, okay, well then all thoseother things that I was ignoring
and sweeping underneath the rug,I probably shouldn't ignore them
anymore, but I can fix them.
I can fix them because we can goto couples therapy because we,
we will talk about these thingsbecause I believe so strongly in
(33:38):
this relationship that I thinkwe can do this.
And.
And then it ends up being like atask on you, but it's not really
a together thing.
You know what I mean?
I'm not saying people cannot fixtheir relationships.
I'm saying a lot of times, oneparty does a lot more heavy
lifting than the other thinkingthat that is their
responsibility.
(33:59):
Yeah.
Justine Ang Fonte (33:59):
And in heterosexual relationships, a
lot of times the onus is on thewoman because of how socialized
she has been to caregive,caretake accommodate and not
prioritize her needs oversomebody else's.
So we tend to stomach a lot ofthese things and, you know,
(34:20):
it's, it's, it's alwaysfrustrates me when people say,
when they find out like the sexof the baby that they're about
to have and be like, oh, sogood.
You're having a boy.
They're much easier to raise.
Why are they much easier?
Because girls fucking fixedeverything for any of the
problems they creates.
That's what.
Girls are more difficult becausewe are built to actually fix
(34:43):
humans problems.
And most of those humans have apenis
Angie Yu (34:49):
yeah.
Actually I remember a friend whosaid, do girls really mature
faster?
Or is it just because we're notallowed to get away with as much
shit as men are, right.
Justine Ang Fonte (34:59):
Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
We are more complicated humansbecause of the amount of work
and the burden that is expectedfor us to put out there, to fix
world's problems and be okay.
Not taking credit for it becausewe were expected to do it in the
beginning.
So that whole like boys will beboys is because we don't expect
(35:21):
boys to be able to do anythingbetter than fuck up.
And then we come in and clean itup girls to fix it.
Right.
So like the whole gender rolesthing.
If we go back to like, how doeslike sexuality, you know,
intersect with, you know, myidentity and my experiences it's
like, where does it not
Kristy Yee (35:41):
you're right.
Where does it not because somuch of that learning about what
a woman's role is in societycomes from our parents, but also
comes from all those otherplaces where we learn shit, like
from school, from friends, frommedia, from books we read
(36:01):
characters that we get to know.
Right.
We see that.
And then we emulate that andthen we internalize it.
We think that that should be ourplace or our identity or our
responsibility when really it'sreally fucking exhausting.
Yeah.
I want to go back to.
Racism because I find in theChinese community, it's, it's
(36:26):
still very pervasive.
And I know there's a lot of workdone to unlearn.
I'm curious to know.
Have you had a difficultconversation with your parents
when you were dating your blackX's and you saw how different
they reacted, you saw how theaunties had reacted.
Did you ever confront them aboutit?
Justine Ang Fonte (36:49):
I did.
more than once it was, it wasdefinitely the biggest strain
I've ever had, between myparents.
And we're very tight where likethe FA I'm my relationship with
my parents is like there'stexting every day.
And if there isn't a call everyother day, I get guilt trips for
not having called the daybefore.
(37:09):
So, but you know, it's, it'snever feels obligatory.
It's like, I always just want toshare with my mom, like what I'm
going to cook that evening andtell my dad about the newest gig
offer I got for some job orsomething.
And so it's, you know, it's,it's a very comfortable, level
of communication.
but it's also become like thisexpectation now.
And so when you know, theserelationships were happening,
(37:30):
there were months of nocommunication whatsoever.
There were, you know, phonesthat were hung up on in the
middle of conversations.
and you know, there was.
There were a lot ofdiscrepancies in how we talked
about this with a lot of itrooted in, I fear for your
safety.
We've worked so hard to get youto a position in your life where
(37:51):
you don't have to struggle likewe had.
And I don't want that to, youknow, I don't want any of that
ease to now be retracted becauseof a burden you will start to
share with someone who's, youknow, life has been systemically
set up to not be easy.
and I don't want you to have totake that on.
(38:12):
So they, you know, they believethat they don't deserve that,
but they don't want to make thatbecome their problem.
Even if they're doing some typesof work on the outside to try to
fix it on, you know, a much moremacro scale, pick the easier
path is basically the, was theparenting advice.
And this is not the easiest.
(38:32):
So why, why are you doing this?
And your choice is going toaffect everyone, not just you
and your immediate family thatyou're choosing to possibly
create with him.
Kristy Yee (38:44):
Wow.
I think so much of that soundsit's again, it's what Angie
said.
It's, it's coming from a placeof love.
It's coming from a place ofprotection.
They have built this lifeimmigrating to America so that
their offsprings can have abetter life so that it's not,
it's not as hard as it was forthem.
And I think every singleimmigrant family has a similar
(39:07):
story.
That's why they immigrated.
And any disruption to thatsafety net that's really
uncomfortable.
Did you ever get to a placewhere you were able to convince
your parents that it's okay.
To be dating a black man?
Justine Ang Fonte (39:24):
No, I was successful in with other isms,
and you know, phobic thingsthat, you know, they, they have,
taken on.
And so that's why I was sodetermined to be able to try to
do the same with this, issue.
And, and I wasn't.
And so I'm always stillconcerned that, you know, if I
end up in a similar position,what that conversation is going
(39:46):
to be like, or if maybe they'vecome around by that point, you
know, this was many, these were,this was many years ago already.
but you know, rocking the boatwhen you have the privilege of
being so adjacent to whitenessis super hard to, to allow.
and so I get it, but that's notsomething I know I want to
(40:09):
perpetuate.
and that's not something that myparents who have worked so hard
to assimilate want to give up,and that's just something we're
always going to agree todisagree on.
I understand why, and I lovethem for the things that they
are offering me, which is morethan not, to be happy and
(40:31):
successful.
And then there's this one smallsliver that we'll never agree
on.
And that's why I have an amazingtherapist to be able to just sit
with that and be okay with thatsliver, not outweighing the, you
know, the other wonderfulaspects of our relationship.
Kristy Yee (40:48):
Yep.
I don't let that sliver cloudeverything else up.
And it almost goes back to thefirst takeaway was pick your
battles and.
Agreeing to disagree and thenmove on from that.
And if the conversation needs tocome up again, later in the
future, it might go in adifferent direction.
(41:09):
We don't know.
Right?
Like, like we just mentionedearlier, sometimes when we have
difficult conversations, wealready have this expectation of
how another person's going toreact.
Maybe it, it will be differentand maybe it won't, but when
that time comes, then that'smaybe that's when you decide to
take out one of those five cardsand, and then we'll go from
there.
Justine Ang Fonte (41:28):
Yeah.
Kristy Yee (42:28):
So Angie and I are in our early thirties right now,
we are at a place where we thinkabout having kids because that's
what is expected of us.
So we, we think like that iswhat we want as well.
And then we also think about nothaving kids and.
I have been upfront about beingon team, no kid for a really
(42:51):
long time, as I'm getting older,I feel like, am I so strongly on
the team?
No kid.
Angie has started out as teampro.
Yeah.
I want kids period.
Very strong about that.
And then now she's starting to,you know, consider not having
(43:11):
kids.
So basically we were on polaropposites and, and now we're
like, we're starting to meet inthe middle, which is an even
more difficult place becausethere's no strong stance in what
we want.
We're just pivoting back andforth.
Yeah.
How did you come to a placewhere you feel strongly about
the decision you have made now?
Justine Ang Fonte (43:34):
So the decision isn't that I'm, you
know, my decision.
Has only changed in that I amallowing for another option to
be as valid.
It's not as extreme of like nowI'm a no kids person, right?
I'm not, I'm not, I'm trying tolike, not think about the fact
that I could have wasted 16grand on free egg freezing,
(43:56):
because I feel like I need tonow use one of them because of
how much I spent.
Right.
But, that was always my plan I'mgoing to get married by 27 and
I'm going to have four kids atleast two years apart.
And, two of those kids will beadopted and that was always my
plan.
And it seemed to likebiologically make sense.
(44:19):
if I had actually executed thatplan at 27, but it did not work
out with white boyfriends, sothen plans change.
And then I said, okay, I couldstill do four.
Well, that's what, you know,adoption adds that buffer to my,
you know, biological clock.
So that's okay.
So I could still have this planand start at, you know, 35 or
34, whatever, and then Filipinoboyfriend didn't work out.
(44:44):
So then I'm like, okay, well Imight be able to knock out one
biological kid, with my eggs orwithout them.
and then I've just started toget into, you know, now in age
at 36, where a lot of my closefriends who are my same age are
now getting divorced or are nowhaving a kid and just learning
(45:12):
this new side of a personalityin their partner.
Because they're a differentperson as a parent, or they're
not the person they expected asa parents.
And so now I have 36 year oldpeers that are surrounding me,
who are either on the brink ofdivorce already divorced or in
very unhappy homes.
(45:34):
And then I'm thinking in mysingle life, why am I swiping so
damn hard for that?
That's so why are you trying sohard?
And then it's already hard justto find someone right.
And the thing that I mentionedabout these, these friends of
(45:55):
mine is that I stood by them ontheir wedding days, really
feeling like this is an actualmarriage that I am totally.
They are super healthy.
I've known both of them for Xamount of time.
I feel good about this.
I have zero qualms.
And yet with that, like that,that solid foundation, they're
(46:23):
on the brink of divorce.
So then I'm like, all right,well, I already know I'm not
going to lower my standards andthat I have standards and I'm
looking for this and that.
But even with that, that's not aguarantee it's going to stick
and it's going to work and it'sgoing to be immune from thinking
about divorce.
and you know, and then once youbust out a kid and you bust out
(46:43):
a second kid, it makes sensethat it's going to strain your
relationship.
So not only have like mystandards have, you know, stayed
in like how I'm dating, but I'meven now to the point where.
I don't even need someone to tryto meet those standards because
maybe it's impossible and that'snot worth like my unhappiness.
(47:04):
And so if I end up having to dothis on my own, what would that
look like on my own terms?
And I thought, well, I wouldknow that like the kind of
career mom I would want to be isone that would need a full on
other adult presence.
That person doesn't have to be ahusband.
(47:24):
That person doesn't have to benecessarily a co-parent that I'm
not married to.
I just know need like at least ananny present at all times.
So that means that I need to bemaking a certain level of income
to have two full on adultspresent to raise this kid.
And I'm thinking about my job asa freelancer in sex education.
And I'm like, it may not bepossible that I reached that
(47:45):
income.
Therefore, I don't bring a kidinto that.
I am so pro the life of thechild that I won't have one, if
I can't give them the life thatI want to give them.
And so that mentality has mademe realize, okay, so you're
going to be cool on see Justinearound the globe and maybe not
(48:09):
mom.
And you were someone that wantedfour.
I still want four, but I need tobe four times as rich as I'm
planning on being so that I canhave all the nannies to make
this happen.
Right.
I also need to find like someonewho's wanting for, from someone
who's already 36 years old.
Right.
So I still have this assomething I want, but it's no
(48:33):
longer the only goal that willlead to happiness.
It might be for kids and itmight be no kids.
And I'm starting to believe thatthe happiness is equal.
And that's the new thing.
That's the mindset change thatI've made and decision I've made
to allow that as an option?
Kristy Yee (48:55):
I think what not, I think what I have just learned
from what you have shared isit's not about picking one
direction or another.
It's not about being fixated on,I want to be a mom or I want to
be a cool rich auntie with nokids.
It's not about picking that oneidentity and trying to strive
for it is looking at all of thedifferent options and allowing
(49:19):
all of those options to beviable.
Right.
Justine Ang Fonte (49:22):
It's widening our definition.
Of success, because for me, itwas always like, I'm going to be
married.
I'm going to have kids.
And that's what success slashhappiness looks like.
So keep swiping, keep swiping,worked really hard, you know,
put it under the rug.
He's good enough.
He's coachable, whatever.
And then I'm like, there's gotto be another way because I've
(49:47):
been doing that routine for 12years in New York city and New
York city dating is its ownbeast and I'm tired.
So, you know, I feel like wehave to allow for our own mental
health and our longevity thatit's possible to be happy and
more than one ways.
(50:07):
Why do I, why am I putting somuch pressure and weight and
giving so much credit to onething, one place, one person to
give you all that happy.
Right.
And so, you know, in the wayI've even talked to like my high
school seniors, who are you say,like, I'll only be happy if I go
to this one.
If this one school accepts meand I was not hit, I was that
(50:29):
kid.
Do you know who is told?
Like, if I don't get into thisone school, my life is over.
And I didn't realize until Ibecame a teacher and realizing,
you know, the life that I'vehad, that, why am I giving so
much power to this oneinstitution to provide me with
all this happiness, same thing.
Why am I putting so much powerin the institution of marriage
(50:50):
to give me happiness?
Oh, wait a minute.
It's because I've bought in tocapitalism being the thing that
tells me happiness is onlyviable with marriage.
And that's why the weddingindustry is so profitable and
multi-million dollar.
(51:10):
And that's also why the divorcerate is also something that has
conjured so much profit indivorce lawyers, because it's
the whole system of make more,make more, make more.
This is why you have to look acertain way in order to fit into
that wedding dress.
And that dress better be adressed that's white, don't do
anything.
That's like, you know, Versiveof that.
(51:31):
This is the only one way for awedding to really be, and you'll
need at least five bridesmaiddresses because that's just
what's traditional is.
And, but I mean, there's just somany things layered in, like
they really figured it out.
They learn how to steal ourmoney by convincing us that this
is what happiness looks like.
They do that with beautystandards.
They do that with hallmarkholidays.
(51:52):
They do that with, you know,Valentine's day, whatever it is,
like they figured out a way tojust take more of our money
because we've bought into theidea that that will therefore
lead to happiness.
And so part of it.
You know, decolonizing isrecognizing that there is many,
there are many ways for you tolive.
(52:13):
it doesn't have to be this onethat you're giving all this one,
this power to.
So it's been really liberating.
So one give less fucks and thento also just know, okay, success
and happiness is more than onething.
Wow, it's a game changer.
I can just now live and live mybest life and not feel guilty
(52:34):
about it because it doesn't looklike what bridal magazine told
me.
Kristy Yee (52:39):
So Mike drop, one give less fucks two all the
fucking options are viable andyou don't need to stick to one.
They can all be available at thesame time.
You can do whatever you want.
Three is controlling what youcan control and not having other
(53:01):
people and other messages justfuck around with you.
And it's not your responsibilityto fix other people.
You just control what you cancontrol.
You share your piece into theworld.
If they accept it.
Great.
If they don't, then we, we agreeto disagree and we peace out.
And then finally it's pick yourbattles, conserve that energy.
(53:22):
Save it for what matters to youbecause there are only five
cards.
So figure out what it is that isimportant to you.
And then all the other stuff youcan just either give less fucks
about, or if it doesn't cost youthat much energy, whatever.
Justine Ang Fonte (53:36):
That's a great cliff note.
Thank you,
Kristy Yee (53:39):
Christie.
Thank you Justine, for sharingall of your wisdom with us
today, how are you feeling?
Justine Ang Fonte (53:46):
Good.
I, I feel, refresh to be able toshare some different type of
content than I've shared inother podcasts.
So thank you for asking thosequestions and giving me a
platform to share my
Kristy Yee (53:58):
answers.
So Justine, I have one lastquestion for you before we end.
Our episode is out of all ofthose major topics that we
talked about, we talked aboutsexuality.
We talked about racism.
We talked about conserving yourenergy and we talked about
liberating the self out of anyof those topics.
What would be an advice that youcould give to a younger audience
(54:23):
or just to your younger self?
Justine Ang Fonte (54:25):
I mean, I like all of those.
I think the main one for ayounger self specifically, would
be, you know, the language, ageappropriate version of give less
fucks because during, especiallystarting really during puberty,
you know, this is whereinsecurity starts to build and
grow because of what your bodyis changing into that is aligned
(54:48):
or not aligned with what youhoped and dreamed for yourself.
And on top of that, you're sentall of these messages as to what
beauty actually is or worthyactually is while trying to also
just navigate the sociallandscape because you have an
innate human desire to belong.
So I get that.
I wish more middle schools gavestudents enough self-esteem to
(55:12):
understand belonging withquality and not just for capital
because the number of followersor the number of people sitting
with you at the cafeteria tableare not necessarily going to
tell us the actual measure ofhappiness that we have.
and I was a very strong, I'm arecovering people, pleaser, and
(55:37):
I, you know, someone that wasfriends with everyone, And
there's been things that haveproven helpful from, from that,
you know, those efforts, but itreally wasn't until my, you
know, late twenties where Istarted to realize what quality
friendships mean and setboundaries in order to maintain
(55:58):
friendships that actually serveme and my happiness and not out
of obligation or out of fear ofguilt of leaving.
And I feel like if I took thaton when I was younger and really
just didn't care about,belonging in so many groups or
certain groups, I think I wouldhave been able to make more room
(56:19):
for other things, to explore whoJustine was.
so I would say to my youngerself and, you know, the younger
generation, think moreintentionally about the quality
of belonging you're looking for.
And not just to belong to sayyou belong somewhere.
Kristy Yee (56:38):
I love that.
Thank you so much for being withus on the show today.
Justine,
Justine Ang Fonte (56:42):
thank you for having me.
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