August 15, 2022 • 59 mins
We decided to share a popular episode from season 1 from the summer of 2020 about how we talked ourselves out of our depressive episodes. We share audio clips of our actual voice messages with each other to show our realistic experiences, thoughts, and feelings. We talk about potential coping methods and understanding the different drivers that keep us going.
"I just cannot rationalize my emotions away. Like I have no control over my emotions and they take over my life." - Angie
"Well, the emotions are not logical, so you can't rationalize something that's... not logical." - Kristy
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Yes, these are affiliate links because we like them and we use them too.
The best way to support this show is by listening and sharing with a friend. If you would like to buy a coffee or bubble tea, we would love that too.
----
Instagram @shitwedonttellmom
Email: shitwedonttellmom@gmail.com
Send us an audio message by clicking here!
----
We use Buzzsprout as our host because they seamlessly link to major podcast platforms and make it really easy to read analytics. They also have an awesome support team. Sign up today and get a $20 Amazon gift card!
We also use Descript as our editing software because editing with text is much easier than with soundwaves. We are not audio geniuses and want to focus our energy on creating content rather than editing. Sign up today and get your first 3 months free!
Yes these are affiliate links because we like them and we use them too.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kristy Yee (00:00):
I have hit record.
Angie Yu (00:01):
Okay.
Kristy Yee (00:26):
Welcome to another episode of shit.
We don't tell mom.
today we are doing somethingdifferent as per usual.
our usual is now doing things.
That is not our usual.
Millennial life, you see, weplan to plan, but then we don't
do what we plan to do.
Angie Yu (00:47):
We have an
Kristy Yee (00:48):
outline of certain topics we want to touch on and
we do today.
We do have a topic that we wantto talk about, which is why
we're inserting it into themiddle of our schedule.
We will have guests soon.
Folks who are listening.
We have, we have a few guestslined up.
We're really, really excited toshare some of those stories and
conversations with all y'allsthere's just been a lot of heavy
(01:11):
stuff, stuff with COVID and,black lives matter.
And some of the things that wetalked about last time and
episode seven, I'm feeling notso great.
there's a lot of things going onin.
In my life right now.
you know, there's been a lot ofheavy stuff, so we just gotta,
we gotta talk about this.
Okay.
Which is why, which brings ustoday's episode.
(01:32):
we want to talk aboutspecifically going through a a
depressive moment when you we'reactually feeling all of the
symptoms of depression oranxiety.
because when you're actually inthe trenches, it's all a lot
harder to do the things that wepreach.
Talking to someone reaching forhelp, self care meditation.
(01:55):
That all sounds really greatwhen we're maintaining.
And when we're managing, thoseare really helpful, but if
you're in a depressive state andin a depressive mode, and you're
having a lot of intrusivethoughts, it's much harder to
practice what you preach.
And that's why we wanted to openup this episode today is because
(02:19):
I'm noticing that I am enteringa depressive phase And yeah.
Yeah.
So we're both experiencing somethings and we will want to talk
about it, not just for our ownstuff, sanity, but also to show
an example of what it isactually like to feel these
(02:42):
things while trying to preach ordo what we preach, which is
really hard.
So those are some of the thingsthat we want to touch upon
today.
Angie Yu (02:56):
So before we jump back to the episode where Christie
and I are talking about ourdepressive episodes over zoom, I
wanted to add in and let youguys listen to a couple of
clippings from WhatsApp, betweenKristi and I.
From when we had a conversationon the morning of June 23rd., it
wasn't any special day oranything like that, but it was
during a period of time where Iwasn't really sleeping.
(03:16):
And Christie was also strugglingwith some parts of her life,
but, you know, being Christieshe's really good at holding
everything, you know, holdingher head up, up above water.
But when, you know, from asoutsiders, like I even pointed
out before, it's reallydifficult to see when someone's
going through something, justbecause.
(03:36):
You know, they hold or theycarry themselves.
Well, it doesn't mean that theshit they carry doesn't mean
that the shit that Christycarries it's in heavy or the
shit that I carry isn't heavy.
And for myself, I personallyactually don't think I'm as
resilient as her.
And she does it.
And I'm saying this because I'mediting this episode and I'm
(03:57):
still definitely trying tofigure out my emotions, but it's
always easier, you know?
As an outsider.
And this is kind of theconversation I want to show you
guys, because when you're in thethick of it all, it's really,
really hard to see out of thatfog.
So I was falling back into sortof a depressive episode, a not
exactly a manic episode, butdefinitely.
(04:19):
I was overcompensating forsomething.
yeah, again, sometimes whenyou're in the thick of it all,
it's really hard for us to reachout for help and sometimes a
quick voice message.
With a supportive friend canremind you that.
Hey, are you going throughsomething I'm here for you?
Let's talk it out.
Kristy Yee (04:39):
Tell me more about the failing part.
Angie Yu (04:42):
Yeah, I don't, I've just been feeling like the work
that I've been assigned.
It's not even that difficult.
but whenever I need to sit downand do work, I get like a minor
panic attack because of whathappened, you know, in the last,
however many months before I onleave, like, I'm just so scared
of failure because I.
(05:02):
Failed before I went on leave,like I failed.
And, and it's something I'venever experienced before.
And that panic, just really setsin and, and I was trying to sit
with the panic as my therapisttold me, but it just didn't
really go away.
And I don't think it'll go awayuntil I actually just.
(05:24):
Do the work.
Kristy Yee (05:26):
I'm hearing a few things.
I'm hearing almost like a lostsense of identity because you've
been associating your identitywith performance.
Like that's who that's like theprofile that you fit into.
Is you're this really smartperson who gets a raise, who
(05:48):
does really, really well atwork.
And so when you're notperforming because of, because
of how you're feeling andbecause you are, I think.
I'm guessing I'm makingassumptions.
I think you're, you'reunderperforming maybe because,
of the depression, because ofthe anxiety.
(06:11):
and so those symptoms, they are.
Causing you to underperform.
And then when you underperform,you feel a lost sense of
identity because in your mind,that's all you have is your
performance, whether it's schoolor work.
And then I think that fuels backinto the depression and the
anxiety, because now you've lostsomething that is so innately
(06:36):
part of you, or at least part ofyour, external identity, if that
makes sense.
Ah, and then you mentioned, youknow, smarts is nothing without
good work ethics and that's thepart of it.
Like the good ethics part of it.
That's what's being affected bythe depression therefore you're
(07:00):
not able to perform, but youcan't.
I mean, sometimes you can'treally control it.
You can recognize it and you canmanage it, the depression, but
you can't control it.
Is that right?
I don't know.
But I think it's because of thedepression that that's
interfering with, your workethics, and therefore you can't
(07:21):
perform because in order toperform, you need to combine
smartest and work ethicstogether.
And right now the work ethicspart is like being hindered and
it sucks and it's affecting thework.
And then, and then, because itaffects the work and then if you
end up underperforming, thenthat.
That's viewed as failure, eventhough it might not be for
(07:42):
everybody else, but it's viewedas failure because then you're
failing your own identity.
You're failing to live up toyour identity and that's, that's
just some, that's a viciouscycle, right.
And it just keeps going roundand round with depression and
anxiety, like a dance.
The depression is causingfailure and work ethics, and
(08:04):
then failure and work.
Ethics means you mayunderperform.
And then the underperformancewill cause an anxiety.
And then it just goes around andaround.
And so shopping almost becomes away to distract yourself and to
(08:24):
feel good momentarily.
As I think you get a little bitof a, Hmm.
I don't know what the hormoneis.
Maybe it's serotonin.
maybe it's oxytocin.
We're so not experts at this.
But I think it, it gives you ahead of feel.
Goodness, just for a moment,because you know, you're looking
(08:48):
at things that you, like, yougot excited for wanting these
things, but you don't actuallywant these things.
You just want that feeling thatit gives you when you're
shopping and when you're, whenyou get something new, because
that distracts you from how.
Upsetting it is to not know whoyou are anymore because of this
(09:13):
identity that's slipping away,which is being caused by
depression.
And we've both said thedepression is not your identity,
but the depression right now iscausing.
You to feel like you're losingyour identity because it takes
(09:34):
away your work ethics andthat's, that's part of what,
what depression does, what afucking horrible dance, the
depression.
Secondarily causes the feelingof identity loss and the feeling
(10:00):
of identity that you lost causesanxiety.
And then the anxiety the anxietyleads to feeling worthless and
that feeling of whereworthlessness.
Feeds into depression, fuckingfucking vicious cycles.
Angie Yu (10:26):
That is really, really good analysis, Christie.
Like I am so taken back, likethat's amazing.
you basically capturedeverything.
Yeah.
You got, you got everything likebetter then I, I did.
and here, yeah, from like, froma third person who basically
(10:48):
described exactly how I'mfeeling like Holy shit, like
that's amazing.
Kristy Yee (10:52):
I think this is part of the reason why there's so
many reasons why it's good totalk about what we're feeling
and the symptoms that we'regoing through wanting to help us
process it better.
And we've mentioned that in oneof our takeaways, But also
because things are so muddy inyour own head as the first
(11:15):
person that has it's, it'sharder to connect those dots
because you're living in thatmoment.
And then, but for me, hearing itas a third person, because I'm
not living in it, then theclarity is more.
(11:35):
There, you know, cause I'm notclouded by all these emotions
and things.
So anyways, I just saw yourmessage still put me in fucking
tell period.
How could I not have thought ofdopamine?
Angie Yu (11:49):
yeah.
so when I first spoke to mypsychologist about my symptoms,
so, you know how like, betweenanxiety and depression, they're
so intertwined.
Some people have depressionthat's caused by anxiety, and
then some people have anxietythat's caused by depression.
So.
People with general anxietydisorder can still get
(12:11):
depression and people who havedepression can still get
anxiety.
Yeah.
It's so intertwined becomes likechicken and egg, but for some
people it's more obvious thatone comes before the other and
for myself, depression is what Ihave and anxiety for myself as
more of a secondary symptom.
So yeah, you got that.
Like, like this, and I'm just sotaken aback by how, intuitive
(12:35):
you are with the stuff.
Kristy Yee (12:37):
I don't, I don't know if it's being intuitive
rather than maybe it's justbecause I recognize these
symptoms and I recognize what itfeels like to go through.
Depression anxiety, even thoughlike we have different stories
and we have differentexperiences, but there are,
(12:57):
there's common themes.
So maybe it's just because Irecognize some of those and.
I'm not offering any solutions,you know, so it's, it's not like
I could be helpful in that way,but I'm just glad I'm able to be
here to talk it through with youand, and try to make sense of it
at least.
(13:18):
So there's that.
Angie Yu (13:28):
Yeah, so, so it's been, this is currently a really
tough time for me because lastyear, this time was a very
unpleasant time of my life.
So I think something to do withthe temperature, the smells of
freshly cut grass, the sounds ofsummer, just, you know, those
(13:51):
the late, late sunsets, allthese very experiential.
Things.
Wow.
I am so eloquent today.
I just woke up from like animpromptu three hour nap, so,
okay.
I'm starting in the afternoonfor noon.
We were supposed to record atone.
so I think there are just a lotof things that's triggering some
(14:14):
of those, the memories and thething is they're not.
Mental memories.
It's like they're triggering theemotional memories.
So I
Kristy Yee (14:24):
can just harder because that's so much heavier
when you're hitting, when you'rerefilling certain things that
aren't really fun to feel.
And you're reliving thatexperience.
Yeah.
Angie Yu (14:36):
I'm reliving those emotions and.
reprocessing them a year laterand yeah, it's not pleasant.
So I started noticing thebehavior, the avoidance behavior
that was starting up againbecause, well, one, I poured
myself into this project, offurniture, my patio, my balcony
patio makes it sound huge, but.
(14:57):
I mean, it looks amazing.
Kristy Yee (14:59):
Everyone was like,
Angie Yu (15:00):
well, you did such a good job.
And I guess like out of allthings that I could have drown
myself in drowning, myself in ahome improvement project, isn't
bad, but it got to a point whereI was putting off all these
things that are good for me todo it.
And I think that's when Istarted noticing, Hey, this
behavior is now not even animprovement thing.
(15:21):
It's, it's literally adistraction for me right now.
Hmm.
So I wasn't exercising.
I wasn't feeding myselfproperly.
I wasn't even sleeping properly.
I spent, I CA I've for the lasttwo weeks.
I've probably slept in my ownbed three times.
Kristy Yee (15:39):
Oh my gosh.
Angie, all the other times I'vebeen
Angie Yu (15:42):
just sleeping on my couch and someone else's couch.
yeah.
And it's been hard.
I can't even really describebecause it's not my reality
right now.
My reality right now iswonderful.
I'm really enjoying my life.
I'm enjoying this podcast.
but.
(16:03):
I cannot rationalize theemotions away.
I have no control over myemotions and there are sometimes
they just take over my life.
Kristy Yee (16:14):
Well, the emotions are not logical, so you can't
rationalize something.
That's not
Angie Yu (16:20):
logical.
That's right.
Kristy Yee (16:21):
I feel like the home improvement project, the
beginning of it was verytherapeutic for you and it
served a lot of purpose becauseit gave you a lot of meaning.
It gave you a creativity outlet.
you felt really good about itbecause you were, you did things
on your own.
You.
build shit.
You use the drill goddamn, it'sreally, it's really fulfilling
(16:44):
to create something and have theability to buy all the things
that you want and then make thethings from your own bare hands
and then, express yourcreativity in that way.
But I also felt as a person whowatched your patio grow and, and
continue to wash your.
Urban forest grow.
(17:07):
I thought to myself, is itgetting to a point where it's
you have too many plants?
Now, my first thought is fillingin the holes of something
Angie Yu (17:22):
else.
Oh yeah.
Kristy Yee (17:23):
Before you really, really, truly became.
A millennial plant mama, or isit something else?
And I feel like now that we'retalking about it, it might be
something else because youlegitimately just told me that.
You're using this as adistraction.
It came from a good place atfirst, and it was very
(17:45):
productive in that sense, but ithas now since turned into
something else where you aredistracting yourself from
feeling the emotions that youneed to feel, and those emotions
are being triggered by theseason and being decided, or
because what had happened lastyear.
All of these things werehappening too.
(18:05):
the sun was shining and flowersare blooming.
People are wearing shorts, smellthe grass.
Angie Yu (18:12):
Yeah.
It's the environment.
It's not one thing that triggersthese memories is it's
everything and yeah, you'reright.
when it first started, it thefelt good.
You know, and it was I was justlooking to repeat that good
feeling like
Kristy Yee (18:28):
drugs.
Angie Yu (18:30):
That's right.
Kristy Yee (18:31):
And when you have a hit of the drugs that are feels
good, you want to, you want torepeat that feeling again?
Angie Yu (18:37):
That's right.
It was the dopamine, thedopamine of like, achievement,
right?
this hit of dopamine.
And I just keep looking for thatdopamine.
I'm literally chasing.
D.
but I think what I really missis the oxytocin and you can't
get that from any sort ofachievement.
It can only be achieved fromsoothing behaviors and I knew it
(19:01):
was a problem when I told myselflike, Hey, this is enough for
now.
Kristy Yee (19:06):
Yeah.
Angie Yu (19:06):
And that's when I can tell I'm submitting to my
impulses when I can no longercontrol my actions on my
impulsive behavior, which isjust.
Throwing money at the problem,because for me, this is just
throwing money at improving myhome.
When I keep telling myself stopbuying shit.
And when I come home and I'mlike, Hmm, I wanted to go in to
(19:29):
look for one thing, I came home$300 later and I'm like, I have
Kristy Yee (19:33):
a problem.
Yeah.
I'm not even gonna sugar coatthat yeah.
I
Angie Yu (19:41):
just arrived and I opened the Amazon package.
I'm like, Hmm.
I
Kristy Yee (19:44):
have a problem.
Did it feel good?
Did you get that surge ofdopamine that you wanted from
hoping the Amazon package?
Angie Yu (19:51):
For sure.
Kristy Yee (19:56):
You know, when you talked about the environment and
how that could be triggeringright now.
You're doing home improvementstuff.
you're changing the look of yourenvironment.
Angie Yu (20:07):
That's right.
Kristy Yee (20:08):
And I wonder if there's some sort of, you know
what I mean?
Like my
Angie Yu (20:12):
brain just went, Holy shit.
You know what?
That's the Holy shit.
I'm trying to change myenvironment and anything that's
external because those thingsare so easy to change and to
control because I'm hoping thatit'll change something on the
inside, but it's not going to.
Kristy Yee (20:30):
And I wonder if you're also trying to change the
fact that the environment wastriggering you and so you're
changing your own environmentand you know, how people.
Change their looks, but insteadof changing your looks, you're
not going to get a haircut, butyou're changing the look of the
place that you live in which initself reminds you of, you know,
the triggering events or, or thetraumatic event.
Angie Yu (20:52):
when the emotions were more intense, I did do that.
I was so focused on changing myappearance.
And it was, again, trying tochange the way I looked because
I was trying to change somethingabout me because that was easier
to control than what was insideso yeah, I was trying you're
right.
I'm trying to change theenvironment.
Kristy Yee (21:15):
Why don't you tell, tell us what are some of the
symptoms that you're feelingnow?
Cause you mentioned you'reentering that depressive state.
Again, I don't want that beenlike for you.
Angie Yu (21:26):
so I noticed my symptoms of, of depression is
one.
I, I can't sleep.
So I fall asleep in front of theTV watching Brooklyn nine, nine
for the 17th time.
Kristy Yee (21:38):
Hmm.
Angie Yu (21:39):
Cause it's familiar sounds it's
Kristy Yee (21:41):
comforting and it's comforting.
Angie Yu (21:43):
Yeah, that's right.
And, I don't want to be home andone of the other really bad
symptoms that really affects mylife is, not being able to focus
up on work, like on my day job.
And I don't want to cook.
(22:05):
I don't want to clean, I don'twant to put away my laundry.
I have now two loads of cleanlaundry on my bed, which is why
I keep sleeping on my couchbecause I dumped my clean
laundry on my bed, tellingmyself you don't deserve sleep.
until you put away your laundry,
Kristy Yee (22:21):
It's like this internal dialogue, like you set
yourself up because you thinkyou're outsmarting yourself by
putting laundry on your bed.
So it forces you to do it.
But little, little does theother Angie know, it's like,
well, jokes on you.
I'm just not going to sleep.
Angie Yu (22:37):
Exactly.
And, Yeah.
So there's all these symptomsand, and I know that I'm
depressed and I I'm defaultingto those coping mechanisms of
making myself happy throughexternal means,
Kristy Yee (22:57):
and that's the thing too, because.
Depression.
Doesn't just come.
And then you're like in thisdark corner by yourself and it's
moist, you know, Yuling and thenthe word itself is like it dark,
damp and Boyce plays, mushroomsgrowing.
(23:19):
That doesn't seem like a veryappealing thing.
And I feel like that's whatdepression is painted.
Yeah.
A lot of the times, yeah.
Listeners too.
No, that, you know, if you're,if you're familiar with
depression, then you might knowthat, you know, it, it's not
always like that.
And if you're not familiar withdepression, And now I just
wanted to point out that a lotof times, it's, it's not like
(23:39):
that.
you could end up being in thatplace, but you don't just like
show up there.
You don't just like open a doorand then you end up there.
A lot of the times, it's theselittle things that you don't
even pick up, like not wantingto do laundry or not wanting to
cook And then next thing youknow, so it's like four weeks
later and you haven't sleptproperly.
(24:00):
You still haven't done laundry.
I haven't exercised in a while.
You spent$300 in the last twodays, and then that's it when
you're like, Oh, hold up.
What's going on and you won'teven, I feel like one would only
recognize that once they'vealready, you know, started to
see therapy, I started tounderstand their own mental
(24:20):
health a little bit more.
And then you, you start pickingup these signs and symptoms that
if you haven't been through amental health journey already,
then it might not be as easy torecognize these things.
So it could go on for months,maybe even years before you
realize that you're like, fuck.
No, I'm depressed.
now I'm just face down on thecarpet and I hate life.
(24:41):
And you lose interest in thethings that you normally find
that are interesting, likecooking, right?
or reading yeah.
Books.
Angie Yu (24:47):
Yeah.
Watching, watching shows.
Yeah, I haven't done anythingnew.
I have not, I didn't, I didn'tgo for a run for three weeks and
I went for a run on Friday,Friday
Kristy Yee (24:59):
morning.
Angie Yu (25:01):
And I sent you a voicemail, remember?
Kristy Yee (25:02):
And I was like, I'm depressed.
Yeah.
Yup.
So Now that you've, you're yourecognize you're in a depressive
state, we all say we shouldreach out, talk to people about
it, seek some support.
What does that look like for youright now?
And how do you feel about allthese.
(25:23):
All these things that we saywhen we're not in a depressive
state, all this raw shit.
How do you feel about that?
Angie Yu (25:31):
I feel like, like, even just now when I teared up
talking about why I wasdepressed, I haven't actually
said that to anybody yet.
So yeah.
Talking about it does helpbecause I do feel like the
pressure has alleviated alittle.
But when I'm depressed, the lastthing I want to do is talk to my
(25:52):
friends about why I'm depressed,because I feel like a burden,
And, and it's hard when it's abad breakup because everyone's,
you know, like, you know, likeLizzo, listen to Lizzo, just
fucking move on.
Right.
But like, tell me how, justfucking tell me how and I'll do
it.
Kristy Yee (26:09):
But it's not that easy.
It's never, it's never how it'sbeing said.
Cause it's never, it's alwaysgoing to be harder than, than,
than what people tell you to do.
That's right.
That's right.
And it's so much more confusingwhen you're the first person as
well, because you're feeling allthese things and then you shame
(26:31):
yourself for feeling it because.
You think to yourself, he's notdeserving of my tears or he's
not deserving that I I'mthinking about him.
And I shouldn't think about him.
And then you feel bad forthinking about him all the
while, still thinking and stillgrieving and then feeling bad
(26:53):
that you're grieving, which is,I think even worse than just
grieving on its own.
Angie Yu (26:59):
That's right.
And I think with the whole, youknow, empowerment.
which is a wonderful thing.
A lot of it also comes with alittle bit of toxic positivity
as well.
Kristy Yee (27:09):
Totally
Angie Yu (27:10):
it's almost like I feel ashamed when I do.
I feel bad when I feel ashamedwhen I'm still upset or, or, or
I cry over it, I feel shame
Kristy Yee (27:23):
because you're basically doing the things that
all your friends are telling younot to do, or that you feel like
you shouldn't
Angie Yu (27:30):
do.
Yeah.
Like my, not even all myfriends, but like just pop
culture or like what, whateveris.
Trending what society is tellingme to do, and I'm not doing
that.
And then I feel shame becausethat's not my process.
Kristy Yee (27:49):
You know what I feel like there are so many people
out there who, who who'veexperienced a bad breakup and
has felt similar things.
And I have no answers to this.
I have no solutions.
I'm sorry,
Angie Yu (28:03):
people,
Kristy Yee (28:05):
I don't
Angie Yu (28:05):
think there is a solution.
Kristy Yee (28:07):
And, but what I think is really valuable for our
listeners is to know thatthey're not alone in feeling
this way and feeling thispressure to let it go and
feeling the shame of.
Thinking about this person, eventhough they don't deserve your
(28:28):
energy or your time or yourtears, but you still do it.
And I think a lot of people gothrough that, but they do it on
their own because they don'twant to burden their friends and
family.
They also don't want to lookweak and, and be shamed
externally because you'realready shaming yourself
internally for doing it.
So, so you also don't want to beshamed externally, so you're not
(28:50):
telling them.
And I, but I think it's so real.
And, and I'm glad we're talkingabout this today.
And hopefully listeners willknow that they're not the only
ones who've ever felt this wayabout a bad breakup.
Angie Yu (29:16):
yeah, I do feel better now that we've We've talked
about it.
Kristy Yee (29:20):
See, he's talking about it, everybody.
Yeah.
That's the thing, Christie.
Angie Yu (29:23):
And thank you listeners for listening to this,
Kristy Yee (29:26):
but it's not easy to talk about it.
And, and I don't know if this isa, a right or a wrong thing.
but I do find that sometimes if,if it's hard to talk.
Two friends, because you don'twant to be a burden.
Something that I have done, nottoo much, but I don't know.
I don't want to call it astrategy, but something that I
(29:49):
have used before is to talkabout different chunks of it, to
different people.
At times, therefore I'm not justputting the same amount of
stress onto the same person allthe time, but I'm casting a
wider net and I might not dumpthe whole load on them.
(30:10):
I just might dump some parts ofit.
Yeah.
With one person and then dumpanother part with another
person.
And then by the time I'verecycle back to the first one,
then maybe they're not so filledwith my shit.
You know what I mean?
They'll be ready to accept moreshit from me again.
Angie Yu (30:27):
Yeah.
So I
Kristy Yee (30:29):
don't know if that's helpful for you or for any of
our listeners, but, that'ssomething that I have tried to
do before.
I keep hesitating because I'malso wait through some stuff,
but I'm not telling anybodyabout it.
So I feel very hypocritical.
But if I think back to othertimes than I do, I do spread it
(30:50):
out.
And I share in different amountsin different chunks, because
some people you're going to beway more closer with than
others.
And you feel this is weird tojust dump my whole shit on them.
But, but if you do it in smallamounts and when your
relationship gets strong, likecloser, because you're sharing
something really vulnerablewithout being big fucking
(31:11):
dumping up pile of slugs onthem.
Well, I don't know why I'mthinking
Angie Yu (31:15):
obviously all this moist slugs.
Analogy is coming fromsomewhere.
Kristy Yee (31:19):
So turn over a reflection of what, or it's an
external reflection of what'shappening.
Angie Yu (31:25):
I'm going to turn this, relay these one 80 and
point.
And I, you, I don't know.
I don't put the tea in front ofyou.
I don't know.
Kristy Yee (31:37):
Yeah.
Well,
Angie Yu (31:39):
what.
Is making you so depressed?
Kristy Yee (31:43):
I don't really know.
But I it's a bad way to start.
Angie Yu (31:51):
Well, I know
Kristy Yee (31:53):
I maybe do know internally, but I haven't sat
with it long enough to reallyverbalize what's going on, but
what I have.
At least come to terms with nowis I recognize I am displaying
symptoms of depression.
I am feeling depressed.
Whereas the last time we, werecorded an episode, which was
(32:14):
episode seven, I listed up abunch of stuff that was
happening in my life.
the things to do with mycontractor, my mom being sick.
I, I was Yeah, well, everybodyhas stuff to do.
Right.
And I just kinda, I wasn'tacknowledging that it was making
me feel really garbage.
Cause that was a day when Idropped your plates and tripped
(32:36):
over an air plant.
Angie Yu (32:38):
Yes.
Kristy Yee (32:39):
So
Angie Yu (32:41):
I mean plan by the way.
Kristy Yee (32:43):
Oh, very good.
See corrective action.
This is good.
Okay.
I've noticed, lately that I amstill dropping things and
tripping over stuff.
I haven't been sleeping well,just like you for probably a few
(33:05):
months now.
Angie Yu (33:14):
I want to say that.
Kristy Yee (33:16):
Well, Am I hiding it.
I might be hiding it for myself,but I also want to point out
that when someone is depressed,yes, they can be just very, I
don't want to talk to people.
I want to be in this dark roomby myself, but they could also
be you and I were still laughingon this episode, we're not just,
we're not just I hate life.
Angie Yu (33:35):
Well, humor is, is one of the.
Kristy Yee (33:38):
Coping mechanism.
Angie Yu (33:39):
Yeah.
That's why a lot of, comedianscome out and say they're
depressed
Kristy Yee (33:43):
Yes.
Okay.
Good point.
Good point.
So I guess what I'm.
This is good, because then itshowcases that, it's not very
obvious when someone isdepressed and when you are
feeling symptoms and it's notobvious to you, and it's not
obvious to other people, becauseit might look very well hidden
or disguised.
And, they're still happy golucky, laughing, and going to
(34:04):
work and all of that.
But so what I've noticed is,yeah, the sleep has been bad.
lately it's affecting my work.
I'm forgetting appointments withmy clients.
Angie Yu (34:16):
Yeah.
I noticed that too.
Kristy Yee (34:17):
straight up just, Oh God, I hope I don't get fired
for this.
They've all been rectify, soit's okay.
But it's the fact that I likethat's so bad.
That's so irresponsible that I'mforgetting things that I have to
do for work.
I.
(34:38):
I usually there's always thingson my plate.
So that's, that's a whole otherthing.
why am I always filling my plateso full, but that's a whole
other thing that I need to workon.
What's up when
Angie Yu (34:49):
you drop the plate foreshadowing.
Kristy Yee (34:53):
Cause my plates all cut.
Okay.
I hope not.
Well, it didn't shatter, sothat's a good thing.
Yeah.
Angie Yu (35:01):
But it's a reminder,
Kristy Yee (35:02):
that is something I need to work on that I, why do I
always have that?
This need to fill up my platewith stuff.
Wow.
Angie Yu (35:10):
Coupled with everything else that's been
happening.
I'm like, there's somethingbigger going on.
Kristy Yee (35:15):
Yeah.
It's, it's it's bad.
Cause even, yes, you're sayingall this and I'm thinking
yesterday when I was, Texting myboyfriend as well.
And I think right before Ipassed out last night, he just
straight up send me a textmessage saying like I'm worried
about.
(35:35):
Okay.
And that means that I'm showingit a lot more than I thought I
am showing it.
Angie Yu (35:40):
You're starting to slip up because if not, you can
not suppress those.
depressive behaviors anymore andit's getting worse.
the more you suppress the worstit's going to get.
Kristy Yee (35:53):
Totally.
And this brings me to my nextpoint is that we're always
talking about seeking, help,seeking support, talking to a
friend.
Now it's hard.
And we mentioned this talking toa friend part it's hard, and
some of the strategies is likespreading it out.
But I also don't want to burdenbecause people can only take on
so much.
I also don't want to be judged.
There's still shame.
(36:14):
Around seeing that, you know,Oh, I'm feeling depressed or, or
I'm having an anxiety attack,even though I am upfront about
it when I recognize it, whenit's very apparent to my face
and I can't hide it from myselfanymore.
then I will say it like it is,but I, that doesn't mean that
(36:36):
I'm not ashamed by it.
In the last few days, I'm, I'mrecognizing, I'm Oh shit, I'm
actually really depressed.
Cause there was one day when Ijust like laid on the floor.
Angie Yu (36:49):
Come through me, a video of you lying on the floor
and you're like, haven't beenable to get up and I need to go
shower.
And I'm like, ah, clearsymptoms.
I'm just going to go out and sayit.
I think you're depressed.
Kristy Yee (37:02):
I haven't internalized it then I
definitely internalized it a lotmore now.
at the time.
I, it was my fourth day of notshowering when I sent you that
video.
So I didn't shower for fourdays.
And I tried the night before Iremember I was like, you know
what?
This is Dave three.
You got to go see, you gotta goto work.
(37:23):
just wash your hair, man.
that's the logical sidespeaking, go to the bathroom.
I remember going to thebathroom.
I stripped down naked, I wasready and I just needed to turn
on the faucet and go in.
And I paced around the bathroomfor 45 minutes and I ended up
just going back into my bednaked.
(37:43):
Well, and when I say went tobed, I mean, go into my bed with
my covers and be on my phoneuntil I, now looking back in
hindsight, that was so fuckingobvious.
Yeah.
That was a depressive moment.
so collectively all of themthings tripping over airplanes,
not showering for getting myclients, lying down, just not.
(38:03):
Wanting to do anything.
And I, I told my boss this and Itook a couple of days off.
but it was hard to saysomething.
Yeah.
I think the conversation soundedlike it, wasn't hard.
Like I'm like, Hey, I'm notfeeling so great.
I'm feeling a little bitdepressed.
I think I'm going to take somedays off and she's like, cool.
(38:24):
Let me know how it can help takethe days off, here are some
resources that we have in thecompany for mental health.
And they're helpful.
Like part of that is like, I, Ibooked an appointment to speak
to a counselor and it's freebecause it's like my company's
paying for it.
So that's nice.
They, they, they are providingus additional mental health
resources because of COVID.
(38:44):
Yeah.
but it made me think, okay, if Iwasn't working, what am I going
to do?
Because I haven't seen mytherapist in like a year.
And the reason for that isbecause I don't have extended
health.
So does this mean mental healthsupport is only available to
people who have money.
Yeah.
And I feel like, yeah.
(39:04):
Yeah.
And that sucks because a lot ofmental health distress comes
from folks who are.
We don't have a lot of money whomight, who are experiencing a
lot of stress and maybe they'reexperiencing a lot of stress
because of multiple jobs.
And they got like bills to payand like kids to feed.
And therefore they're moresusceptible to mental health
distress.
And therefore they're the folkswho actually need support even
(39:26):
more, but they can't afford thesupport because it costs over
$200 for therapy session.
That's that's, that's fuckingunfair.
Like you can't access the healthcare support that you need.
And I, and right now this is mespeaking from a privileged place
where I have a job and I'm stilllike, I haven't seen my
therapist in a year and I justsee my therapist and I'm like
(39:48):
dying because I'm not seeing mytherapist.
What about the people who'venever even seen a therapist, you
know?
Here's the thing you and I, wetalk about talking about our
shit, right?
And clearly we're talking aboutour shit right now and sharing
it with your friends and familyand seeking mental health
support.
But there's also a lot ofbarriers to that.
Like, there's shame aroundtalking to your friends.
(40:08):
You don't want to burden themtoo much.
your family might not understandbecause they come from, you
know, old school.
education and, and they're notas woke.
And, and so it's difficult tohave those conversations with
them and then you seekprofessional help, but then you
can't because you can't affordit.
So then what do you do?
(40:30):
Fuck?
Hmm.
Here's the thing at this point,usually I'd be like, okay, well,
if all of that goes to shit,then you know, doing little
mindful, mindful therapy,tricks, like journaling and
meditation.
And here's the thing I can sayall that during management
(40:51):
phase, like when I'm not in adepressive phase, I do all of
that.
And it's really, really helpful.
I haven't journaled in a whilebecause the thought of picking
up a pen and applying pressurefrom pen to paper is.
Exhausting even thinking aboutlike, I'm like, I really want to
want to brain dump because Iknow it's going to feel good,
but, but I can't even bringmyself up to pick up the book.
(41:15):
I can just the thought.
Of picking up a pen and havingto use that little muscle, you
know, on your thumb, you know,the one that looks like, like a
chicken thigh, or a chickendrumstick you know, that part of
your hand the little minichicken drumstick part, when
you're using a pen, like that'sthe, that's the muscle.
(41:37):
That you're using to grip thepen and glide along the paper.
And the thought of having toflex that muscle is like, Oh my
God, I'm so tired.
I can't even.
So then what, what kind of valuecan we provide if we're like,
let's talk about your shit.
Well, yeah.
Angie Yu (41:56):
Fuck man.
I don't know
Kristy Yee (41:58):
favorite.
We're not experts, but at leastI hope someone who's out there
feeling all of this.
You're not alone.
We're clearly feeling it rightnow.
We're, we're in the depressivestate and you know, we're gonna,
we're gonna be in and out ofthis and it's not always
obvious.
It's not always obvious to us.
And it's not always obvious toothers.
(42:19):
Sometimes it might be moreobvious to others before it's
even obvious to us.
Right.
And, and, and that's in someways, I mean, like that's okay.
That's okay.
Take time to learn for yourselfwhat your triggers are.
It took Angie a few weeks, tookme like few months and
progressively, it just got worseand worse.
Right.
But I I'm recognizing, and so Ihope that folks who are
(42:42):
listening, even though we didn'tprovide any concrete.
But you're not alone.
And I hope that that's enough.
Angie Yu (42:51):
And, you know, to be honest, yes, my therapist has
helped me a lot in making senseof my emotions.
And I'm one of those people thatI need someone to teach me.
Like I learned better when Ilearned from someone else.
Someone who can guide methrough, but I have also learned
a lot just by reading articlesonline as well.
(43:16):
So if I hear the word, you know,like my therapist talked about
the three different copingsystems that we have as humans,
which is, you know, the soothingsystem, the reward system and
the responsive system.
So the response of his, youknow, fight or flight, and
that's where we have adrenalinefor more, more of the short term
(43:37):
responses, cortisol, which is,you know, stress, right.
And that's responsive.
And the other one's rewardbased, which is, you know,
things like dopamine and in ourcommunity, in the Asian
community, a lot of us grew upwith those two systems.
We're really familiar with.
(43:59):
The anxiety inducing fight orflight system, and then the kind
of chasing the dopamine highchains then D
Kristy Yee (44:08):
the dopamine give some examples.
Angie Yu (44:10):
Yeah.
So like, I don't know, like II'm sure everyone, John becomes
more productive when they'recramming for an exam.
Right because your, youradrenaline kicks in and you're
like, fuck off.
Oh fuck.
And then you, you cram.
And then, because you'restressed out by the stressor,
which is an exam, and you usethat as a way to kind of cope
(44:32):
with this threat of possiblyfailing this exam or something
that you know is important.
Right.
That's our modern day and sabertooth tiger.
That's chasing us.
And.
So that's the, you know,adrenaline et cetera, et cetera.
The second system is the rewardsystem, which is dopamine
(44:55):
driven, which is, you know, youwant to get an a in school.
You want to have a decent GPA,so you can chase more things
like a master's degree, or youcan get recognition from your
peers or recognition from yourparents.
Right.
The whole achievement thing.
That's dope.
Okay.
And there's a third systemcalled.
The soothing system.
(45:17):
And when my therapist taughtthis to me, I was like, what?
There's a third system.
And she's like, yeah, thissystem is not really used that
much, especially in raringchildren in the Asian culture,
the culture that we're veryfamiliar with and in many other
cultures, not just our culture,but it is a it's, it's a, it's a
(45:39):
response system.
That's not as practiced as
Kristy Yee (45:41):
much.
Maybe cause it's old school.
Right.
So, always like
Angie Yu (45:46):
doting on your children and, and being there
for the men, soothing them thatwe need that just as
Kristy Yee (45:54):
much as Wu to me.
Right.
Angie Yu (45:57):
But that's, but that's oxytocin.
And I think
Kristy Yee (46:02):
that's very like millennial parents, like, which
is.
It makes me kind of cringe, noteven millennial as that
millennial, but it's
Angie Yu (46:11):
like your stigma talking because you're so used
to the other two types.
Kristy Yee (46:15):
It's okay.
So why, why I'm like, not downwith it right now, maybe.
Cause I don't understand it verymuch, but I think about, like
when I'm, when everybody isrewarded with like constellation
prize and it's like, nobody is awinner.
Like I think about it like that.
Angie Yu (46:34):
You're thinking about dopamine.
Kristy Yee (46:35):
Okay.
And that's, that's, that's whatI'm not down with.
I'm like, I'm not down witheverybody having a ribbon for
just participating.
Angie Yu (46:42):
I think you're kind of mixing up what you think it is
versus what it
Kristy Yee (46:47):
actually is.
Yeah.
So then that's, that's what I'msaying.
Like, I feel like maybe I'm notunderstanding it very well
because that's the, that's whatI'm understanding.
Angie Yu (46:54):
It's more like, let's say you didn't get a good grade
and you feel sad.
So you go to your parents, whichis your primary caretakers.
And if the parent onlyunderstands the first two and
they want to motivate you to dobetter, next time, they're going
to be like, Hey, if you get an,a next time, I'll buy you a
(47:15):
PlayStation.
That's dopamine based that'sreward based, or their reaction
could be, Hey, if you don't getan, a next time, I'm going to
beat the shit out of you, whichis stress induce, which is
anxiety induce, which is thefight or flight response of
system.
Yeah, a soothing system would belike, why didn't you get an a,
(47:37):
does an AE really matter to youthat much?
Tell me more about how you feelyour emotions and why you're so
upset about this, I wouldn't sayit's unheard of, but it's
definitely a system that's notpracticed when we were growing
up.
It's I think it's beingpracticed more now in modern
parenting books and
Kristy Yee (47:56):
stuff.
And I mean,
Angie Yu (47:58):
for me, when I first, when, when she showed me these
three different systems, I waslike, there's a third system.
Like, I didn't even like.
And, and now I understandoxytocin, like oxytocin is the
love hormone.
It doesn't have to be romantic,but it's released when you feel
like you belong somewhere.
Kristy Yee (48:18):
Well, I know what oxytocin is.
I just didn't understand thesoothing system.
Cause it's not something thatwe're familiar with.
And so I just didn't understandwhat that meant.
I feel like, okay,
Angie Yu (48:34):
driven society, but achievement will never bring you
happiness.
And this is something that I'mstarting to understand for
myself.
It's always, it's hard topractice it, but the more I
think about it, the more Iunderstand, like, Why is it that
we are getting more rich andwe're getting more stuff, but
(48:56):
we're never happier.
Kristy Yee (48:59):
I agree that money can't buy happiness.
Angie Yu (49:02):
neither can the achievements, like it can bring
you temporary, temporaryhappiness, but everything like
all these different responsesystems, all these chemicals
that are released, they're alljust, this is gonna sound like
Sombra's flock, but like, That'sall we that's.
All we are at the end of the dayis we're just, we're these
chemical producing bags offlesh,
Kristy Yee (49:23):
our bags of flashes also just made out of chemicals.
We're just a whole bunch ofatoms put together.
Angie Yu (49:29):
It's a wholesome though.
When you think about it, likewe're not here to like we're,
we're part of the universe, likewe're all chemicals.
Kristy Yee (49:42):
This is getting really, really like
Angie Yu (49:45):
sorry.
My original point is that whenI, she only mentioned the
oxytocin thing for a little bit,it's not like she sat down with
me and gave me a PowerPointabout it.
I went home and did most of theresearch myself to understand
more.
So what I'm trying to say is,yes, I agree.
The, the, you know, What do
Kristy Yee (50:03):
you call it?
The,
Angie Yu (50:03):
mental health services are really inaccessible to some
people in society, but even ifyou have all the money in the
world and you keep throwingmoney at therapists and, and
antidepressants or antianxietymedication, it's still not going
to do anything unless you do thework yourself.
So for me, like.
(50:24):
I find therapy P really helpfulbecause I'm learning that there
are all these different thingsout there, and there are all
these different methods ofunderstanding how our brain
works and I'm starting to do theresearch on my own so that I can
understand myself.
But most of the work that isdone with my therapist is when I
(50:45):
do it at home.
because in that 60 minutes of asession with a therapist, I
don't want achieve that much.
I get these Epiphanes and thenshe teaches me things and I'm
like, Holy shit, that makes somuch sense, but I can't improve
myself until I go home and dothe homework myself.
Kristy Yee (51:01):
Yeah, for sure.
And I agree with that because alot of things it's like, well,
the therapy, the therapist ishelps you make sense of it and
guides you along the way, butthen you have to do the work
herself and you have to sit withyour own thoughts and think
about, you know, do all thehomework and do the journaling
and do the reflections, and thenalso do your own research and
you need to be motivated to alldo all those things as well for
(51:22):
to better yourself and to helpyourself.
So you're going to need to be inthat state of mind as well.
And I agree, but I think what,what I was trying to get at is,
okay, well, if you don't evenhave access to all of this, like
if you don't, if you're notcomfortable in sharing your,
your depressive state with yourfriends and your family, because
you don't want to burden them,or if they don't understand, and
(51:44):
you don't have access access toa therapist or any sort of
mental health support, and yes,there are free ones.
quality might vary a lot as wellas the waitlist is really
fucking long, so it's not veryaccessible.
And so then what can people dowhen, when they're just on their
(52:05):
own and they don't even have theenergy to pick up a
Angie Yu (52:07):
pen?
Kristy Yee (52:08):
that's where I'm like, I don't, I don't have the
answers.
Angie Yu (52:11):
I don't have an answer, but I have Something to
say.
And I think that's a two part,like what your question is.
I think it's two differentquestions.
Like one the accessible thing.
Like there's no solution that'sgonna work for everyone out
there.
And even for us, like we canonly help with our corner of the
world.
Right.
Like we can try to do somethingfor the people in our corner of
(52:35):
the world and for the listenerswho are listening to our
podcasts, like one, thank youfor listening.
We really appreciate it too, forsomeone to be interested in our
podcast, either they know us orthey're really genuinely
interested in the topic.
And if they are interested inour topic, which is mostly
around mental health, thatthey're already doing something
further for themselves, which iseducating themselves on these
(52:56):
topics.
And, you know, like I said,we're not.
Experts.
I feel like I have to say thisevery episode, we're not
experts, but you know, you hearabout these things.
You hear people talk aboutdepression or anxiety.
We hear people talk aboutoxytocin, dopamine or addiction
issues, and then you can kind ofgo out there and do some
research on your own, theinternet.
There's lots of free resources.
(53:18):
or you can buy a book for like10 bucks.
It's 20 bucks to, to learn aboutit more in depth.
I I'm currently reading a bookcalled master your emotions and
I find it really useful.
so that's one part of part, oneof your question, part two, I
think is the harder part whenyou're like even when, you're
(53:39):
there and when you're in thatpit depression, right.
You're in that pit of depressionand.
you can't even pick up a pen.
What can you do?
And I was there a few months agoand I told my therapist that,
and what she told me was thatmotivation doesn't come from
(54:06):
thin air.
at the time didn't seem veryhelpful.
But over time it did becomehelpful.
People think that motivationleads to action, but it's
actually the other way around.
And that's what my therapisttold me.
Action equals motivation.
When you start doing something,you get motivated to keep doing
(54:29):
it.
And the thing is it's, it's somuch easier said than done.
Like I'm being a hypocrite herebecause I haven't journaled in
like a month.
Yeah,
Kristy Yee (54:41):
I'm thinking start small as well.
So even if you, if you don't,cause I'm basically just
thinking out loud for myself,I'm like therapy in myself right
now.
So even if I cannot pick up apen, like just fucking stand
outside and breathe in freshair.
Angie Yu (54:55):
if I
Kristy Yee (54:56):
can't do that, then just sit the fuck down.
Angie Yu (55:00):
So the fuck down.
Yeah.
Kristy Yee (55:02):
Like little things,
Angie Yu (55:03):
you know, what I found really helpful is when I sent
you those voice notes, that waskind of like my version of
journaling.
Kristy Yee (55:11):
Yes.
I agree.
Yeah.
Angie Yu (55:13):
And you don't have to pick up a pen, you just send a
voice note and if you don't havea trusted friend or family
member to send it, to send it toyourself.
Kristy Yee (55:20):
Okay.
I feel really good about thatone because.
So what Angie and I mean is,neither of us have been
journaling and that's somethingtherapeutic that we normally do
or regularly do, but becausewe're both in a depressive state
right now, there's a lot ofthings that we normally do that
we don't do, even if it's goodfor our mental health.
So.
(55:41):
Well, we started doing, and thiswas it.
Wasn't a planned thing.
we sent each other voicerecordings of just our own
thoughts and word vomiting,basically to each other about
our thoughts and our feelingsand the processes and all of
that.
And that in itself was reallyhard because I'm verbalizing my
thoughts, which helps me.
(56:02):
Organize my thoughts and makesense of it a little bit more.
And it also feels relieving tosay it out loud.
Even if it's not to someone likeyou don't have to press send
what I actually, I think Andrewalso did it too, is I did a
recording in my voice recorder,like on my phone.
So I didn't send that to Angieand I just recorded for like 45
(56:27):
minutes.
I think that's all on therecording was.
and so I think that's a really,really good point that you
brought up there.
Angie, is that, you know, if youcan't pick up a pen to journal,
maybe this could be, this couldbe an alternative that requires
a little bit less energy
Angie Yu (56:43):
I did that a lot last year, actually.
when my relationship was inlimbo and I.
Couldn't talk to the otherperson about what the fuck was
going on because there was somuch lying and so much
manipulation.
The only way for me to reallymake sense of what I was going
on inside my head was I justkept recording these voice notes
when I couldn't sleep.
Kristy Yee (57:04):
And
Angie Yu (57:04):
I would basically record these voice notes until I
pass it.
kind of my version of cryingmyself to sleep because I was so
exhausted that I couldn't cryanymore.
And.
And that sounds really fuckingsad, but it worked, it got me
through another night andsometimes that's that's all you
(57:25):
can do is you look for a littlebit of closure every day.
You look for a little bit ofmeaning every day to keep going.
Kristy Yee (57:34):
I think that is a really great way for us to just
wrap up this episode for today.
I think finally is, is somethingthat we've mentioned before is
that symptoms aren't alwaysapparent.
And it could take a while for usto even recognize that there are
symptoms because you could justbe like, you know, today I'm
just not in the mood today.
(57:54):
Right?
So you might not even noticethat you're, we're actually
displaying a depressive symptomsor going through a depressive
phase.
Until days, weeks, months, maybepeople could be yours.
Yup.
And that's why I think it'sreally, it's powerful to check
in with ourselves a lot and tolearn, and we're both learning
(58:18):
Angie and I, and to just keeplearning more about yourself so
that you do catch yourself maybenext time, a little bit more
easily when you are about toenter or when you are in a
depressive phase.
Angie Yu (58:30):
That's right.
Kristy Yee (58:31):
Alright.
Well, hanging out with you guysnext time.
Thanks for joining us today.
Bye.
Bye.
I have hit record.
Angie Yu (00:01):
Okay.
Kristy Yee (00:26):
Welcome to another episode of shit.
We don't tell mom.
today we are doing somethingdifferent as per usual.
our usual is now doing things.
That is not our usual.
Millennial life, you see, weplan to plan, but then we don't
do what we plan to do.
Angie Yu (00:47):
We have an
Kristy Yee (00:48):
outline of certain topics we want to touch on and
we do today.
We do have a topic that we wantto talk about, which is why
we're inserting it into themiddle of our schedule.
We will have guests soon.
Folks who are listening.
We have, we have a few guestslined up.
We're really, really excited toshare some of those stories and
conversations with all y'allsthere's just been a lot of heavy
(01:11):
stuff, stuff with COVID and,black lives matter.
And some of the things that wetalked about last time and
episode seven, I'm feeling notso great.
there's a lot of things going onin.
In my life right now.
you know, there's been a lot ofheavy stuff, so we just gotta,
we gotta talk about this.
Okay.
Which is why, which brings ustoday's episode.
(01:32):
we want to talk aboutspecifically going through a a
depressive moment when you we'reactually feeling all of the
symptoms of depression oranxiety.
because when you're actually inthe trenches, it's all a lot
harder to do the things that wepreach.
Talking to someone reaching forhelp, self care meditation.
(01:55):
That all sounds really greatwhen we're maintaining.
And when we're managing, thoseare really helpful, but if
you're in a depressive state andin a depressive mode, and you're
having a lot of intrusivethoughts, it's much harder to
practice what you preach.
And that's why we wanted to openup this episode today is because
(02:19):
I'm noticing that I am enteringa depressive phase And yeah.
Yeah.
So we're both experiencing somethings and we will want to talk
about it, not just for our ownstuff, sanity, but also to show
an example of what it isactually like to feel these
(02:42):
things while trying to preach ordo what we preach, which is
really hard.
So those are some of the thingsthat we want to touch upon
today.
Angie Yu (02:56):
So before we jump back to the episode where Christie
and I are talking about ourdepressive episodes over zoom, I
wanted to add in and let youguys listen to a couple of
clippings from WhatsApp, betweenKristi and I.
From when we had a conversationon the morning of June 23rd., it
wasn't any special day oranything like that, but it was
during a period of time where Iwasn't really sleeping.
(03:16):
And Christie was also strugglingwith some parts of her life,
but, you know, being Christieshe's really good at holding
everything, you know, holdingher head up, up above water.
But when, you know, from asoutsiders, like I even pointed
out before, it's reallydifficult to see when someone's
going through something, justbecause.
(03:36):
You know, they hold or theycarry themselves.
Well, it doesn't mean that theshit they carry doesn't mean
that the shit that Christycarries it's in heavy or the
shit that I carry isn't heavy.
And for myself, I personallyactually don't think I'm as
resilient as her.
And she does it.
And I'm saying this because I'mediting this episode and I'm
(03:57):
still definitely trying tofigure out my emotions, but it's
always easier, you know?
As an outsider.
And this is kind of theconversation I want to show you
guys, because when you're in thethick of it all, it's really,
really hard to see out of thatfog.
So I was falling back into sortof a depressive episode, a not
exactly a manic episode, butdefinitely.
(04:19):
I was overcompensating forsomething.
yeah, again, sometimes whenyou're in the thick of it all,
it's really hard for us to reachout for help and sometimes a
quick voice message.
With a supportive friend canremind you that.
Hey, are you going throughsomething I'm here for you?
Let's talk it out.
Kristy Yee (04:39):
Tell me more about the failing part.
Angie Yu (04:42):
Yeah, I don't, I've just been feeling like the work
that I've been assigned.
It's not even that difficult.
but whenever I need to sit downand do work, I get like a minor
panic attack because of whathappened, you know, in the last,
however many months before I onleave, like, I'm just so scared
of failure because I.
(05:02):
Failed before I went on leave,like I failed.
And, and it's something I'venever experienced before.
And that panic, just really setsin and, and I was trying to sit
with the panic as my therapisttold me, but it just didn't
really go away.
And I don't think it'll go awayuntil I actually just.
(05:24):
Do the work.
Kristy Yee (05:26):
I'm hearing a few things.
I'm hearing almost like a lostsense of identity because you've
been associating your identitywith performance.
Like that's who that's like theprofile that you fit into.
Is you're this really smartperson who gets a raise, who
(05:48):
does really, really well atwork.
And so when you're notperforming because of, because
of how you're feeling andbecause you are, I think.
I'm guessing I'm makingassumptions.
I think you're, you'reunderperforming maybe because,
of the depression, because ofthe anxiety.
(06:11):
and so those symptoms, they are.
Causing you to underperform.
And then when you underperform,you feel a lost sense of
identity because in your mind,that's all you have is your
performance, whether it's schoolor work.
And then I think that fuels backinto the depression and the
anxiety, because now you've lostsomething that is so innately
(06:36):
part of you, or at least part ofyour, external identity, if that
makes sense.
Ah, and then you mentioned, youknow, smarts is nothing without
good work ethics and that's thepart of it.
Like the good ethics part of it.
That's what's being affected bythe depression therefore you're
(07:00):
not able to perform, but youcan't.
I mean, sometimes you can'treally control it.
You can recognize it and you canmanage it, the depression, but
you can't control it.
Is that right?
I don't know.
But I think it's because of thedepression that that's
interfering with, your workethics, and therefore you can't
(07:21):
perform because in order toperform, you need to combine
smartest and work ethicstogether.
And right now the work ethicspart is like being hindered and
it sucks and it's affecting thework.
And then, and then, because itaffects the work and then if you
end up underperforming, thenthat.
That's viewed as failure, eventhough it might not be for
(07:42):
everybody else, but it's viewedas failure because then you're
failing your own identity.
You're failing to live up toyour identity and that's, that's
just some, that's a viciouscycle, right.
And it just keeps going roundand round with depression and
anxiety, like a dance.
The depression is causingfailure and work ethics, and
(08:04):
then failure and work.
Ethics means you mayunderperform.
And then the underperformancewill cause an anxiety.
And then it just goes around andaround.
And so shopping almost becomes away to distract yourself and to
(08:24):
feel good momentarily.
As I think you get a little bitof a, Hmm.
I don't know what the hormoneis.
Maybe it's serotonin.
maybe it's oxytocin.
We're so not experts at this.
But I think it, it gives you ahead of feel.
Goodness, just for a moment,because you know, you're looking
(08:48):
at things that you, like, yougot excited for wanting these
things, but you don't actuallywant these things.
You just want that feeling thatit gives you when you're
shopping and when you're, whenyou get something new, because
that distracts you from how.
Upsetting it is to not know whoyou are anymore because of this
(09:13):
identity that's slipping away,which is being caused by
depression.
And we've both said thedepression is not your identity,
but the depression right now iscausing.
You to feel like you're losingyour identity because it takes
(09:34):
away your work ethics andthat's, that's part of what,
what depression does, what afucking horrible dance, the
depression.
Secondarily causes the feelingof identity loss and the feeling
(10:00):
of identity that you lost causesanxiety.
And then the anxiety the anxietyleads to feeling worthless and
that feeling of whereworthlessness.
Feeds into depression, fuckingfucking vicious cycles.
Angie Yu (10:26):
That is really, really good analysis, Christie.
Like I am so taken back, likethat's amazing.
you basically capturedeverything.
Yeah.
You got, you got everything likebetter then I, I did.
and here, yeah, from like, froma third person who basically
(10:48):
described exactly how I'mfeeling like Holy shit, like
that's amazing.
Kristy Yee (10:52):
I think this is part of the reason why there's so
many reasons why it's good totalk about what we're feeling
and the symptoms that we'regoing through wanting to help us
process it better.
And we've mentioned that in oneof our takeaways, But also
because things are so muddy inyour own head as the first
(11:15):
person that has it's, it'sharder to connect those dots
because you're living in thatmoment.
And then, but for me, hearing itas a third person, because I'm
not living in it, then theclarity is more.
(11:35):
There, you know, cause I'm notclouded by all these emotions
and things.
So anyways, I just saw yourmessage still put me in fucking
tell period.
How could I not have thought ofdopamine?
Angie Yu (11:49):
yeah.
so when I first spoke to mypsychologist about my symptoms,
so, you know how like, betweenanxiety and depression, they're
so intertwined.
Some people have depressionthat's caused by anxiety, and
then some people have anxietythat's caused by depression.
So.
People with general anxietydisorder can still get
(12:11):
depression and people who havedepression can still get
anxiety.
Yeah.
It's so intertwined becomes likechicken and egg, but for some
people it's more obvious thatone comes before the other and
for myself, depression is what Ihave and anxiety for myself as
more of a secondary symptom.
So yeah, you got that.
Like, like this, and I'm just sotaken aback by how, intuitive
(12:35):
you are with the stuff.
Kristy Yee (12:37):
I don't, I don't know if it's being intuitive
rather than maybe it's justbecause I recognize these
symptoms and I recognize what itfeels like to go through.
Depression anxiety, even thoughlike we have different stories
and we have differentexperiences, but there are,
(12:57):
there's common themes.
So maybe it's just because Irecognize some of those and.
I'm not offering any solutions,you know, so it's, it's not like
I could be helpful in that way,but I'm just glad I'm able to be
here to talk it through with youand, and try to make sense of it
at least.
(13:18):
So there's that.
Angie Yu (13:28):
Yeah, so, so it's been, this is currently a really
tough time for me because lastyear, this time was a very
unpleasant time of my life.
So I think something to do withthe temperature, the smells of
freshly cut grass, the sounds ofsummer, just, you know, those
(13:51):
the late, late sunsets, allthese very experiential.
Things.
Wow.
I am so eloquent today.
I just woke up from like animpromptu three hour nap, so,
okay.
I'm starting in the afternoonfor noon.
We were supposed to record atone.
so I think there are just a lotof things that's triggering some
(14:14):
of those, the memories and thething is they're not.
Mental memories.
It's like they're triggering theemotional memories.
So I
Kristy Yee (14:24):
can just harder because that's so much heavier
when you're hitting, when you'rerefilling certain things that
aren't really fun to feel.
And you're reliving thatexperience.
Yeah.
Angie Yu (14:36):
I'm reliving those emotions and.
reprocessing them a year laterand yeah, it's not pleasant.
So I started noticing thebehavior, the avoidance behavior
that was starting up againbecause, well, one, I poured
myself into this project, offurniture, my patio, my balcony
patio makes it sound huge, but.
(14:57):
I mean, it looks amazing.
Kristy Yee (14:59):
Everyone was like,
Angie Yu (15:00):
well, you did such a good job.
And I guess like out of allthings that I could have drown
myself in drowning, myself in ahome improvement project, isn't
bad, but it got to a point whereI was putting off all these
things that are good for me todo it.
And I think that's when Istarted noticing, Hey, this
behavior is now not even animprovement thing.
(15:21):
It's, it's literally adistraction for me right now.
Hmm.
So I wasn't exercising.
I wasn't feeding myselfproperly.
I wasn't even sleeping properly.
I spent, I CA I've for the lasttwo weeks.
I've probably slept in my ownbed three times.
Kristy Yee (15:39):
Oh my gosh.
Angie, all the other times I'vebeen
Angie Yu (15:42):
just sleeping on my couch and someone else's couch.
yeah.
And it's been hard.
I can't even really describebecause it's not my reality
right now.
My reality right now iswonderful.
I'm really enjoying my life.
I'm enjoying this podcast.
but.
(16:03):
I cannot rationalize theemotions away.
I have no control over myemotions and there are sometimes
they just take over my life.
Kristy Yee (16:14):
Well, the emotions are not logical, so you can't
rationalize something.
That's not
Angie Yu (16:20):
logical.
That's right.
Kristy Yee (16:21):
I feel like the home improvement project, the
beginning of it was verytherapeutic for you and it
served a lot of purpose becauseit gave you a lot of meaning.
It gave you a creativity outlet.
you felt really good about itbecause you were, you did things
on your own.
You.
build shit.
You use the drill goddamn, it'sreally, it's really fulfilling
(16:44):
to create something and have theability to buy all the things
that you want and then make thethings from your own bare hands
and then, express yourcreativity in that way.
But I also felt as a person whowatched your patio grow and, and
continue to wash your.
Urban forest grow.
(17:07):
I thought to myself, is itgetting to a point where it's
you have too many plants?
Now, my first thought is fillingin the holes of something
Angie Yu (17:22):
else.
Oh yeah.
Kristy Yee (17:23):
Before you really, really, truly became.
A millennial plant mama, or isit something else?
And I feel like now that we'retalking about it, it might be
something else because youlegitimately just told me that.
You're using this as adistraction.
It came from a good place atfirst, and it was very
(17:45):
productive in that sense, but ithas now since turned into
something else where you aredistracting yourself from
feeling the emotions that youneed to feel, and those emotions
are being triggered by theseason and being decided, or
because what had happened lastyear.
All of these things werehappening too.
(18:05):
the sun was shining and flowersare blooming.
People are wearing shorts, smellthe grass.
Angie Yu (18:12):
Yeah.
It's the environment.
It's not one thing that triggersthese memories is it's
everything and yeah, you'reright.
when it first started, it thefelt good.
You know, and it was I was justlooking to repeat that good
feeling like
Kristy Yee (18:28):
drugs.
Angie Yu (18:30):
That's right.
Kristy Yee (18:31):
And when you have a hit of the drugs that are feels
good, you want to, you want torepeat that feeling again?
Angie Yu (18:37):
That's right.
It was the dopamine, thedopamine of like, achievement,
right?
this hit of dopamine.
And I just keep looking for thatdopamine.
I'm literally chasing.
D.
but I think what I really missis the oxytocin and you can't
get that from any sort ofachievement.
It can only be achieved fromsoothing behaviors and I knew it
(19:01):
was a problem when I told myselflike, Hey, this is enough for
now.
Kristy Yee (19:06):
Yeah.
Angie Yu (19:06):
And that's when I can tell I'm submitting to my
impulses when I can no longercontrol my actions on my
impulsive behavior, which isjust.
Throwing money at the problem,because for me, this is just
throwing money at improving myhome.
When I keep telling myself stopbuying shit.
And when I come home and I'mlike, Hmm, I wanted to go in to
(19:29):
look for one thing, I came home$300 later and I'm like, I have
Kristy Yee (19:33):
a problem.
Yeah.
I'm not even gonna sugar coatthat yeah.
I
Angie Yu (19:41):
just arrived and I opened the Amazon package.
I'm like, Hmm.
I
Kristy Yee (19:44):
have a problem.
Did it feel good?
Did you get that surge ofdopamine that you wanted from
hoping the Amazon package?
Angie Yu (19:51):
For sure.
Kristy Yee (19:56):
You know, when you talked about the environment and
how that could be triggeringright now.
You're doing home improvementstuff.
you're changing the look of yourenvironment.
Angie Yu (20:07):
That's right.
Kristy Yee (20:08):
And I wonder if there's some sort of, you know
what I mean?
Like my
Angie Yu (20:12):
brain just went, Holy shit.
You know what?
That's the Holy shit.
I'm trying to change myenvironment and anything that's
external because those thingsare so easy to change and to
control because I'm hoping thatit'll change something on the
inside, but it's not going to.
Kristy Yee (20:30):
And I wonder if you're also trying to change the
fact that the environment wastriggering you and so you're
changing your own environmentand you know, how people.
Change their looks, but insteadof changing your looks, you're
not going to get a haircut, butyou're changing the look of the
place that you live in which initself reminds you of, you know,
the triggering events or, or thetraumatic event.
Angie Yu (20:52):
when the emotions were more intense, I did do that.
I was so focused on changing myappearance.
And it was, again, trying tochange the way I looked because
I was trying to change somethingabout me because that was easier
to control than what was insideso yeah, I was trying you're
right.
I'm trying to change theenvironment.
Kristy Yee (21:15):
Why don't you tell, tell us what are some of the
symptoms that you're feelingnow?
Cause you mentioned you'reentering that depressive state.
Again, I don't want that beenlike for you.
Angie Yu (21:26):
so I noticed my symptoms of, of depression is
one.
I, I can't sleep.
So I fall asleep in front of theTV watching Brooklyn nine, nine
for the 17th time.
Kristy Yee (21:38):
Hmm.
Angie Yu (21:39):
Cause it's familiar sounds it's
Kristy Yee (21:41):
comforting and it's comforting.
Angie Yu (21:43):
Yeah, that's right.
And, I don't want to be home andone of the other really bad
symptoms that really affects mylife is, not being able to focus
up on work, like on my day job.
And I don't want to cook.
(22:05):
I don't want to clean, I don'twant to put away my laundry.
I have now two loads of cleanlaundry on my bed, which is why
I keep sleeping on my couchbecause I dumped my clean
laundry on my bed, tellingmyself you don't deserve sleep.
until you put away your laundry,
Kristy Yee (22:21):
It's like this internal dialogue, like you set
yourself up because you thinkyou're outsmarting yourself by
putting laundry on your bed.
So it forces you to do it.
But little, little does theother Angie know, it's like,
well, jokes on you.
I'm just not going to sleep.
Angie Yu (22:37):
Exactly.
And, Yeah.
So there's all these symptomsand, and I know that I'm
depressed and I I'm defaultingto those coping mechanisms of
making myself happy throughexternal means,
Kristy Yee (22:57):
and that's the thing too, because.
Depression.
Doesn't just come.
And then you're like in thisdark corner by yourself and it's
moist, you know, Yuling and thenthe word itself is like it dark,
damp and Boyce plays, mushroomsgrowing.
(23:19):
That doesn't seem like a veryappealing thing.
And I feel like that's whatdepression is painted.
Yeah.
A lot of the times, yeah.
Listeners too.
No, that, you know, if you're,if you're familiar with
depression, then you might knowthat, you know, it, it's not
always like that.
And if you're not familiar withdepression, And now I just
wanted to point out that a lotof times, it's, it's not like
(23:39):
that.
you could end up being in thatplace, but you don't just like
show up there.
You don't just like open a doorand then you end up there.
A lot of the times, it's theselittle things that you don't
even pick up, like not wantingto do laundry or not wanting to
cook And then next thing youknow, so it's like four weeks
later and you haven't sleptproperly.
(24:00):
You still haven't done laundry.
I haven't exercised in a while.
You spent$300 in the last twodays, and then that's it when
you're like, Oh, hold up.
What's going on and you won'teven, I feel like one would only
recognize that once they'vealready, you know, started to
see therapy, I started tounderstand their own mental
(24:20):
health a little bit more.
And then you, you start pickingup these signs and symptoms that
if you haven't been through amental health journey already,
then it might not be as easy torecognize these things.
So it could go on for months,maybe even years before you
realize that you're like, fuck.
No, I'm depressed.
now I'm just face down on thecarpet and I hate life.
(24:41):
And you lose interest in thethings that you normally find
that are interesting, likecooking, right?
or reading yeah.
Books.
Angie Yu (24:47):
Yeah.
Watching, watching shows.
Yeah, I haven't done anythingnew.
I have not, I didn't, I didn'tgo for a run for three weeks and
I went for a run on Friday,Friday
Kristy Yee (24:59):
morning.
Angie Yu (25:01):
And I sent you a voicemail, remember?
Kristy Yee (25:02):
And I was like, I'm depressed.
Yeah.
Yup.
So Now that you've, you're yourecognize you're in a depressive
state, we all say we shouldreach out, talk to people about
it, seek some support.
What does that look like for youright now?
And how do you feel about allthese.
(25:23):
All these things that we saywhen we're not in a depressive
state, all this raw shit.
How do you feel about that?
Angie Yu (25:31):
I feel like, like, even just now when I teared up
talking about why I wasdepressed, I haven't actually
said that to anybody yet.
So yeah.
Talking about it does helpbecause I do feel like the
pressure has alleviated alittle.
But when I'm depressed, the lastthing I want to do is talk to my
(25:52):
friends about why I'm depressed,because I feel like a burden,
And, and it's hard when it's abad breakup because everyone's,
you know, like, you know, likeLizzo, listen to Lizzo, just
fucking move on.
Right.
But like, tell me how, justfucking tell me how and I'll do
it.
Kristy Yee (26:09):
But it's not that easy.
It's never, it's never how it'sbeing said.
Cause it's never, it's alwaysgoing to be harder than, than,
than what people tell you to do.
That's right.
That's right.
And it's so much more confusingwhen you're the first person as
well, because you're feeling allthese things and then you shame
(26:31):
yourself for feeling it because.
You think to yourself, he's notdeserving of my tears or he's
not deserving that I I'mthinking about him.
And I shouldn't think about him.
And then you feel bad forthinking about him all the
while, still thinking and stillgrieving and then feeling bad
(26:53):
that you're grieving, which is,I think even worse than just
grieving on its own.
Angie Yu (26:59):
That's right.
And I think with the whole, youknow, empowerment.
which is a wonderful thing.
A lot of it also comes with alittle bit of toxic positivity
as well.
Kristy Yee (27:09):
Totally
Angie Yu (27:10):
it's almost like I feel ashamed when I do.
I feel bad when I feel ashamedwhen I'm still upset or, or, or
I cry over it, I feel shame
Kristy Yee (27:23):
because you're basically doing the things that
all your friends are telling younot to do, or that you feel like
you shouldn't
Angie Yu (27:30):
do.
Yeah.
Like my, not even all myfriends, but like just pop
culture or like what, whateveris.
Trending what society is tellingme to do, and I'm not doing
that.
And then I feel shame becausethat's not my process.
Kristy Yee (27:49):
You know what I feel like there are so many people
out there who, who who'veexperienced a bad breakup and
has felt similar things.
And I have no answers to this.
I have no solutions.
I'm sorry,
Angie Yu (28:03):
people,
Kristy Yee (28:05):
I don't
Angie Yu (28:05):
think there is a solution.
Kristy Yee (28:07):
And, but what I think is really valuable for our
listeners is to know thatthey're not alone in feeling
this way and feeling thispressure to let it go and
feeling the shame of.
Thinking about this person, eventhough they don't deserve your
(28:28):
energy or your time or yourtears, but you still do it.
And I think a lot of people gothrough that, but they do it on
their own because they don'twant to burden their friends and
family.
They also don't want to lookweak and, and be shamed
externally because you'realready shaming yourself
internally for doing it.
So, so you also don't want to beshamed externally, so you're not
(28:50):
telling them.
And I, but I think it's so real.
And, and I'm glad we're talkingabout this today.
And hopefully listeners willknow that they're not the only
ones who've ever felt this wayabout a bad breakup.
Angie Yu (29:16):
yeah, I do feel better now that we've We've talked
about it.
Kristy Yee (29:20):
See, he's talking about it, everybody.
Yeah.
That's the thing, Christie.
Angie Yu (29:23):
And thank you listeners for listening to this,
Kristy Yee (29:26):
but it's not easy to talk about it.
And, and I don't know if this isa, a right or a wrong thing.
but I do find that sometimes if,if it's hard to talk.
Two friends, because you don'twant to be a burden.
Something that I have done, nottoo much, but I don't know.
I don't want to call it astrategy, but something that I
(29:49):
have used before is to talkabout different chunks of it, to
different people.
At times, therefore I'm not justputting the same amount of
stress onto the same person allthe time, but I'm casting a
wider net and I might not dumpthe whole load on them.
(30:10):
I just might dump some parts ofit.
Yeah.
With one person and then dumpanother part with another
person.
And then by the time I'verecycle back to the first one,
then maybe they're not so filledwith my shit.
You know what I mean?
They'll be ready to accept moreshit from me again.
Angie Yu (30:27):
Yeah.
So I
Kristy Yee (30:29):
don't know if that's helpful for you or for any of
our listeners, but, that'ssomething that I have tried to
do before.
I keep hesitating because I'malso wait through some stuff,
but I'm not telling anybodyabout it.
So I feel very hypocritical.
But if I think back to othertimes than I do, I do spread it
(30:50):
out.
And I share in different amountsin different chunks, because
some people you're going to beway more closer with than
others.
And you feel this is weird tojust dump my whole shit on them.
But, but if you do it in smallamounts and when your
relationship gets strong, likecloser, because you're sharing
something really vulnerablewithout being big fucking
(31:11):
dumping up pile of slugs onthem.
Well, I don't know why I'mthinking
Angie Yu (31:15):
obviously all this moist slugs.
Analogy is coming fromsomewhere.
Kristy Yee (31:19):
So turn over a reflection of what, or it's an
external reflection of what'shappening.
Angie Yu (31:25):
I'm going to turn this, relay these one 80 and
point.
And I, you, I don't know.
I don't put the tea in front ofyou.
I don't know.
Kristy Yee (31:37):
Yeah.
Well,
Angie Yu (31:39):
what.
Is making you so depressed?
Kristy Yee (31:43):
I don't really know.
But I it's a bad way to start.
Angie Yu (31:51):
Well, I know
Kristy Yee (31:53):
I maybe do know internally, but I haven't sat
with it long enough to reallyverbalize what's going on, but
what I have.
At least come to terms with nowis I recognize I am displaying
symptoms of depression.
I am feeling depressed.
Whereas the last time we, werecorded an episode, which was
(32:14):
episode seven, I listed up abunch of stuff that was
happening in my life.
the things to do with mycontractor, my mom being sick.
I, I was Yeah, well, everybodyhas stuff to do.
Right.
And I just kinda, I wasn'tacknowledging that it was making
me feel really garbage.
Cause that was a day when Idropped your plates and tripped
(32:36):
over an air plant.
Angie Yu (32:38):
Yes.
Kristy Yee (32:39):
So
Angie Yu (32:41):
I mean plan by the way.
Kristy Yee (32:43):
Oh, very good.
See corrective action.
This is good.
Okay.
I've noticed, lately that I amstill dropping things and
tripping over stuff.
I haven't been sleeping well,just like you for probably a few
(33:05):
months now.
Angie Yu (33:14):
I want to say that.
Kristy Yee (33:16):
Well, Am I hiding it.
I might be hiding it for myself,but I also want to point out
that when someone is depressed,yes, they can be just very, I
don't want to talk to people.
I want to be in this dark roomby myself, but they could also
be you and I were still laughingon this episode, we're not just,
we're not just I hate life.
Angie Yu (33:35):
Well, humor is, is one of the.
Kristy Yee (33:38):
Coping mechanism.
Angie Yu (33:39):
Yeah.
That's why a lot of, comedianscome out and say they're
depressed
Kristy Yee (33:43):
Yes.
Okay.
Good point.
Good point.
So I guess what I'm.
This is good, because then itshowcases that, it's not very
obvious when someone isdepressed and when you are
feeling symptoms and it's notobvious to you, and it's not
obvious to other people, becauseit might look very well hidden
or disguised.
And, they're still happy golucky, laughing, and going to
(34:04):
work and all of that.
But so what I've noticed is,yeah, the sleep has been bad.
lately it's affecting my work.
I'm forgetting appointments withmy clients.
Angie Yu (34:16):
Yeah.
I noticed that too.
Kristy Yee (34:17):
straight up just, Oh God, I hope I don't get fired
for this.
They've all been rectify, soit's okay.
But it's the fact that I likethat's so bad.
That's so irresponsible that I'mforgetting things that I have to
do for work.
I.
(34:38):
I usually there's always thingson my plate.
So that's, that's a whole otherthing.
why am I always filling my plateso full, but that's a whole
other thing that I need to workon.
What's up when
Angie Yu (34:49):
you drop the plate foreshadowing.
Kristy Yee (34:53):
Cause my plates all cut.
Okay.
I hope not.
Well, it didn't shatter, sothat's a good thing.
Yeah.
Angie Yu (35:01):
But it's a reminder,
Kristy Yee (35:02):
that is something I need to work on that I, why do I
always have that?
This need to fill up my platewith stuff.
Wow.
Angie Yu (35:10):
Coupled with everything else that's been
happening.
I'm like, there's somethingbigger going on.
Kristy Yee (35:15):
Yeah.
It's, it's it's bad.
Cause even, yes, you're sayingall this and I'm thinking
yesterday when I was, Texting myboyfriend as well.
And I think right before Ipassed out last night, he just
straight up send me a textmessage saying like I'm worried
about.
(35:35):
Okay.
And that means that I'm showingit a lot more than I thought I
am showing it.
Angie Yu (35:40):
You're starting to slip up because if not, you can
not suppress those.
depressive behaviors anymore andit's getting worse.
the more you suppress the worstit's going to get.
Kristy Yee (35:53):
Totally.
And this brings me to my nextpoint is that we're always
talking about seeking, help,seeking support, talking to a
friend.
Now it's hard.
And we mentioned this talking toa friend part it's hard, and
some of the strategies is likespreading it out.
But I also don't want to burdenbecause people can only take on
so much.
I also don't want to be judged.
There's still shame.
(36:14):
Around seeing that, you know,Oh, I'm feeling depressed or, or
I'm having an anxiety attack,even though I am upfront about
it when I recognize it, whenit's very apparent to my face
and I can't hide it from myselfanymore.
then I will say it like it is,but I, that doesn't mean that
(36:36):
I'm not ashamed by it.
In the last few days, I'm, I'mrecognizing, I'm Oh shit, I'm
actually really depressed.
Cause there was one day when Ijust like laid on the floor.
Angie Yu (36:49):
Come through me, a video of you lying on the floor
and you're like, haven't beenable to get up and I need to go
shower.
And I'm like, ah, clearsymptoms.
I'm just going to go out and sayit.
I think you're depressed.
Kristy Yee (37:02):
I haven't internalized it then I
definitely internalized it a lotmore now.
at the time.
I, it was my fourth day of notshowering when I sent you that
video.
So I didn't shower for fourdays.
And I tried the night before Iremember I was like, you know
what?
This is Dave three.
You got to go see, you gotta goto work.
(37:23):
just wash your hair, man.
that's the logical sidespeaking, go to the bathroom.
I remember going to thebathroom.
I stripped down naked, I wasready and I just needed to turn
on the faucet and go in.
And I paced around the bathroomfor 45 minutes and I ended up
just going back into my bednaked.
(37:43):
Well, and when I say went tobed, I mean, go into my bed with
my covers and be on my phoneuntil I, now looking back in
hindsight, that was so fuckingobvious.
Yeah.
That was a depressive moment.
so collectively all of themthings tripping over airplanes,
not showering for getting myclients, lying down, just not.
(38:03):
Wanting to do anything.
And I, I told my boss this and Itook a couple of days off.
but it was hard to saysomething.
Yeah.
I think the conversation soundedlike it, wasn't hard.
Like I'm like, Hey, I'm notfeeling so great.
I'm feeling a little bitdepressed.
I think I'm going to take somedays off and she's like, cool.
(38:24):
Let me know how it can help takethe days off, here are some
resources that we have in thecompany for mental health.
And they're helpful.
Like part of that is like, I, Ibooked an appointment to speak
to a counselor and it's freebecause it's like my company's
paying for it.
So that's nice.
They, they, they are providingus additional mental health
resources because of COVID.
(38:44):
Yeah.
but it made me think, okay, if Iwasn't working, what am I going
to do?
Because I haven't seen mytherapist in like a year.
And the reason for that isbecause I don't have extended
health.
So does this mean mental healthsupport is only available to
people who have money.
Yeah.
And I feel like, yeah.
(39:04):
Yeah.
And that sucks because a lot ofmental health distress comes
from folks who are.
We don't have a lot of money whomight, who are experiencing a
lot of stress and maybe they'reexperiencing a lot of stress
because of multiple jobs.
And they got like bills to payand like kids to feed.
And therefore they're moresusceptible to mental health
distress.
And therefore they're the folkswho actually need support even
(39:26):
more, but they can't afford thesupport because it costs over
$200 for therapy session.
That's that's, that's fuckingunfair.
Like you can't access the healthcare support that you need.
And I, and right now this is mespeaking from a privileged place
where I have a job and I'm stilllike, I haven't seen my
therapist in a year and I justsee my therapist and I'm like
(39:48):
dying because I'm not seeing mytherapist.
What about the people who'venever even seen a therapist, you
know?
Here's the thing you and I, wetalk about talking about our
shit, right?
And clearly we're talking aboutour shit right now and sharing
it with your friends and familyand seeking mental health
support.
But there's also a lot ofbarriers to that.
Like, there's shame aroundtalking to your friends.
(40:08):
You don't want to burden themtoo much.
your family might not understandbecause they come from, you
know, old school.
education and, and they're notas woke.
And, and so it's difficult tohave those conversations with
them and then you seekprofessional help, but then you
can't because you can't affordit.
So then what do you do?
(40:30):
Fuck?
Hmm.
Here's the thing at this point,usually I'd be like, okay, well,
if all of that goes to shit,then you know, doing little
mindful, mindful therapy,tricks, like journaling and
meditation.
And here's the thing I can sayall that during management
(40:51):
phase, like when I'm not in adepressive phase, I do all of
that.
And it's really, really helpful.
I haven't journaled in a whilebecause the thought of picking
up a pen and applying pressurefrom pen to paper is.
Exhausting even thinking aboutlike, I'm like, I really want to
want to brain dump because Iknow it's going to feel good,
but, but I can't even bringmyself up to pick up the book.
(41:15):
I can just the thought.
Of picking up a pen and havingto use that little muscle, you
know, on your thumb, you know,the one that looks like, like a
chicken thigh, or a chickendrumstick you know, that part of
your hand the little minichicken drumstick part, when
you're using a pen, like that'sthe, that's the muscle.
(41:37):
That you're using to grip thepen and glide along the paper.
And the thought of having toflex that muscle is like, Oh my
God, I'm so tired.
I can't even.
So then what, what kind of valuecan we provide if we're like,
let's talk about your shit.
Well, yeah.
Angie Yu (41:56):
Fuck man.
I don't know
Kristy Yee (41:58):
favorite.
We're not experts, but at leastI hope someone who's out there
feeling all of this.
You're not alone.
We're clearly feeling it rightnow.
We're, we're in the depressivestate and you know, we're gonna,
we're gonna be in and out ofthis and it's not always
obvious.
It's not always obvious to us.
And it's not always obvious toothers.
(42:19):
Sometimes it might be moreobvious to others before it's
even obvious to us.
Right.
And, and, and that's in someways, I mean, like that's okay.
That's okay.
Take time to learn for yourselfwhat your triggers are.
It took Angie a few weeks, tookme like few months and
progressively, it just got worseand worse.
Right.
But I I'm recognizing, and so Ihope that folks who are
(42:42):
listening, even though we didn'tprovide any concrete.
But you're not alone.
And I hope that that's enough.
Angie Yu (42:51):
And, you know, to be honest, yes, my therapist has
helped me a lot in making senseof my emotions.
And I'm one of those people thatI need someone to teach me.
Like I learned better when Ilearned from someone else.
Someone who can guide methrough, but I have also learned
a lot just by reading articlesonline as well.
(43:16):
So if I hear the word, you know,like my therapist talked about
the three different copingsystems that we have as humans,
which is, you know, the soothingsystem, the reward system and
the responsive system.
So the response of his, youknow, fight or flight, and
that's where we have adrenalinefor more, more of the short term
(43:37):
responses, cortisol, which is,you know, stress, right.
And that's responsive.
And the other one's rewardbased, which is, you know,
things like dopamine and in ourcommunity, in the Asian
community, a lot of us grew upwith those two systems.
We're really familiar with.
(43:59):
The anxiety inducing fight orflight system, and then the kind
of chasing the dopamine highchains then D
Kristy Yee (44:08):
the dopamine give some examples.
Angie Yu (44:10):
Yeah.
So like, I don't know, like II'm sure everyone, John becomes
more productive when they'recramming for an exam.
Right because your, youradrenaline kicks in and you're
like, fuck off.
Oh fuck.
And then you, you cram.
And then, because you'restressed out by the stressor,
which is an exam, and you usethat as a way to kind of cope
(44:32):
with this threat of possiblyfailing this exam or something
that you know is important.
Right.
That's our modern day and sabertooth tiger.
That's chasing us.
And.
So that's the, you know,adrenaline et cetera, et cetera.
The second system is the rewardsystem, which is dopamine
(44:55):
driven, which is, you know, youwant to get an a in school.
You want to have a decent GPA,so you can chase more things
like a master's degree, or youcan get recognition from your
peers or recognition from yourparents.
Right.
The whole achievement thing.
That's dope.
Okay.
And there's a third systemcalled.
The soothing system.
(45:17):
And when my therapist taughtthis to me, I was like, what?
There's a third system.
And she's like, yeah, thissystem is not really used that
much, especially in raringchildren in the Asian culture,
the culture that we're veryfamiliar with and in many other
cultures, not just our culture,but it is a it's, it's a, it's a
(45:39):
response system.
That's not as practiced as
Kristy Yee (45:41):
much.
Maybe cause it's old school.
Right.
So, always like
Angie Yu (45:46):
doting on your children and, and being there
for the men, soothing them thatwe need that just as
Kristy Yee (45:54):
much as Wu to me.
Right.
Angie Yu (45:57):
But that's, but that's oxytocin.
And I think
Kristy Yee (46:02):
that's very like millennial parents, like, which
is.
It makes me kind of cringe, noteven millennial as that
millennial, but it's
Angie Yu (46:11):
like your stigma talking because you're so used
to the other two types.
Kristy Yee (46:15):
It's okay.
So why, why I'm like, not downwith it right now, maybe.
Cause I don't understand it verymuch, but I think about, like
when I'm, when everybody isrewarded with like constellation
prize and it's like, nobody is awinner.
Like I think about it like that.
Angie Yu (46:34):
You're thinking about dopamine.
Kristy Yee (46:35):
Okay.
And that's, that's, that's whatI'm not down with.
I'm like, I'm not down witheverybody having a ribbon for
just participating.
Angie Yu (46:42):
I think you're kind of mixing up what you think it is
versus what it
Kristy Yee (46:47):
actually is.
Yeah.
So then that's, that's what I'msaying.
Like, I feel like maybe I'm notunderstanding it very well
because that's the, that's whatI'm understanding.
Angie Yu (46:54):
It's more like, let's say you didn't get a good grade
and you feel sad.
So you go to your parents, whichis your primary caretakers.
And if the parent onlyunderstands the first two and
they want to motivate you to dobetter, next time, they're going
to be like, Hey, if you get an,a next time, I'll buy you a
(47:15):
PlayStation.
That's dopamine based that'sreward based, or their reaction
could be, Hey, if you don't getan, a next time, I'm going to
beat the shit out of you, whichis stress induce, which is
anxiety induce, which is thefight or flight response of
system.
Yeah, a soothing system would belike, why didn't you get an a,
(47:37):
does an AE really matter to youthat much?
Tell me more about how you feelyour emotions and why you're so
upset about this, I wouldn't sayit's unheard of, but it's
definitely a system that's notpracticed when we were growing
up.
It's I think it's beingpracticed more now in modern
parenting books and
Kristy Yee (47:56):
stuff.
And I mean,
Angie Yu (47:58):
for me, when I first, when, when she showed me these
three different systems, I waslike, there's a third system.
Like, I didn't even like.
And, and now I understandoxytocin, like oxytocin is the
love hormone.
It doesn't have to be romantic,but it's released when you feel
like you belong somewhere.
Kristy Yee (48:18):
Well, I know what oxytocin is.
I just didn't understand thesoothing system.
Cause it's not something thatwe're familiar with.
And so I just didn't understandwhat that meant.
I feel like, okay,
Angie Yu (48:34):
driven society, but achievement will never bring you
happiness.
And this is something that I'mstarting to understand for
myself.
It's always, it's hard topractice it, but the more I
think about it, the more Iunderstand, like, Why is it that
we are getting more rich andwe're getting more stuff, but
(48:56):
we're never happier.
Kristy Yee (48:59):
I agree that money can't buy happiness.
Angie Yu (49:02):
neither can the achievements, like it can bring
you temporary, temporaryhappiness, but everything like
all these different responsesystems, all these chemicals
that are released, they're alljust, this is gonna sound like
Sombra's flock, but like, That'sall we that's.
All we are at the end of the dayis we're just, we're these
chemical producing bags offlesh,
Kristy Yee (49:23):
our bags of flashes also just made out of chemicals.
We're just a whole bunch ofatoms put together.
Angie Yu (49:29):
It's a wholesome though.
When you think about it, likewe're not here to like we're,
we're part of the universe, likewe're all chemicals.
Kristy Yee (49:42):
This is getting really, really like
Angie Yu (49:45):
sorry.
My original point is that whenI, she only mentioned the
oxytocin thing for a little bit,it's not like she sat down with
me and gave me a PowerPointabout it.
I went home and did most of theresearch myself to understand
more.
So what I'm trying to say is,yes, I agree.
The, the, you know, What do
Kristy Yee (50:03):
you call it?
The,
Angie Yu (50:03):
mental health services are really inaccessible to some
people in society, but even ifyou have all the money in the
world and you keep throwingmoney at therapists and, and
antidepressants or antianxietymedication, it's still not going
to do anything unless you do thework yourself.
So for me, like.
(50:24):
I find therapy P really helpfulbecause I'm learning that there
are all these different thingsout there, and there are all
these different methods ofunderstanding how our brain
works and I'm starting to do theresearch on my own so that I can
understand myself.
But most of the work that isdone with my therapist is when I
(50:45):
do it at home.
because in that 60 minutes of asession with a therapist, I
don't want achieve that much.
I get these Epiphanes and thenshe teaches me things and I'm
like, Holy shit, that makes somuch sense, but I can't improve
myself until I go home and dothe homework myself.
Kristy Yee (51:01):
Yeah, for sure.
And I agree with that because alot of things it's like, well,
the therapy, the therapist ishelps you make sense of it and
guides you along the way, butthen you have to do the work
herself and you have to sit withyour own thoughts and think
about, you know, do all thehomework and do the journaling
and do the reflections, and thenalso do your own research and
you need to be motivated to alldo all those things as well for
(51:22):
to better yourself and to helpyourself.
So you're going to need to be inthat state of mind as well.
And I agree, but I think what,what I was trying to get at is,
okay, well, if you don't evenhave access to all of this, like
if you don't, if you're notcomfortable in sharing your,
your depressive state with yourfriends and your family, because
you don't want to burden them,or if they don't understand, and
(51:44):
you don't have access access toa therapist or any sort of
mental health support, and yes,there are free ones.
quality might vary a lot as wellas the waitlist is really
fucking long, so it's not veryaccessible.
And so then what can people dowhen, when they're just on their
(52:05):
own and they don't even have theenergy to pick up a
Angie Yu (52:07):
pen?
Kristy Yee (52:08):
that's where I'm like, I don't, I don't have the
answers.
Angie Yu (52:11):
I don't have an answer, but I have Something to
say.
And I think that's a two part,like what your question is.
I think it's two differentquestions.
Like one the accessible thing.
Like there's no solution that'sgonna work for everyone out
there.
And even for us, like we canonly help with our corner of the
world.
Right.
Like we can try to do somethingfor the people in our corner of
(52:35):
the world and for the listenerswho are listening to our
podcasts, like one, thank youfor listening.
We really appreciate it too, forsomeone to be interested in our
podcast, either they know us orthey're really genuinely
interested in the topic.
And if they are interested inour topic, which is mostly
around mental health, thatthey're already doing something
further for themselves, which iseducating themselves on these
(52:56):
topics.
And, you know, like I said,we're not.
Experts.
I feel like I have to say thisevery episode, we're not
experts, but you know, you hearabout these things.
You hear people talk aboutdepression or anxiety.
We hear people talk aboutoxytocin, dopamine or addiction
issues, and then you can kind ofgo out there and do some
research on your own, theinternet.
There's lots of free resources.
(53:18):
or you can buy a book for like10 bucks.
It's 20 bucks to, to learn aboutit more in depth.
I I'm currently reading a bookcalled master your emotions and
I find it really useful.
so that's one part of part, oneof your question, part two, I
think is the harder part whenyou're like even when, you're
(53:39):
there and when you're in thatpit depression, right.
You're in that pit of depressionand.
you can't even pick up a pen.
What can you do?
And I was there a few months agoand I told my therapist that,
and what she told me was thatmotivation doesn't come from
(54:06):
thin air.
at the time didn't seem veryhelpful.
But over time it did becomehelpful.
People think that motivationleads to action, but it's
actually the other way around.
And that's what my therapisttold me.
Action equals motivation.
When you start doing something,you get motivated to keep doing
(54:29):
it.
And the thing is it's, it's somuch easier said than done.
Like I'm being a hypocrite herebecause I haven't journaled in
like a month.
Yeah,
Kristy Yee (54:41):
I'm thinking start small as well.
So even if you, if you don't,cause I'm basically just
thinking out loud for myself,I'm like therapy in myself right
now.
So even if I cannot pick up apen, like just fucking stand
outside and breathe in freshair.
Angie Yu (54:55):
if I
Kristy Yee (54:56):
can't do that, then just sit the fuck down.
Angie Yu (55:00):
So the fuck down.
Yeah.
Kristy Yee (55:02):
Like little things,
Angie Yu (55:03):
you know, what I found really helpful is when I sent
you those voice notes, that waskind of like my version of
journaling.
Kristy Yee (55:11):
Yes.
I agree.
Yeah.
Angie Yu (55:13):
And you don't have to pick up a pen, you just send a
voice note and if you don't havea trusted friend or family
member to send it, to send it toyourself.
Kristy Yee (55:20):
Okay.
I feel really good about thatone because.
So what Angie and I mean is,neither of us have been
journaling and that's somethingtherapeutic that we normally do
or regularly do, but becausewe're both in a depressive state
right now, there's a lot ofthings that we normally do that
we don't do, even if it's goodfor our mental health.
So.
(55:41):
Well, we started doing, and thiswas it.
Wasn't a planned thing.
we sent each other voicerecordings of just our own
thoughts and word vomiting,basically to each other about
our thoughts and our feelingsand the processes and all of
that.
And that in itself was reallyhard because I'm verbalizing my
thoughts, which helps me.
(56:02):
Organize my thoughts and makesense of it a little bit more.
And it also feels relieving tosay it out loud.
Even if it's not to someone likeyou don't have to press send
what I actually, I think Andrewalso did it too, is I did a
recording in my voice recorder,like on my phone.
So I didn't send that to Angieand I just recorded for like 45
(56:27):
minutes.
I think that's all on therecording was.
and so I think that's a really,really good point that you
brought up there.
Angie, is that, you know, if youcan't pick up a pen to journal,
maybe this could be, this couldbe an alternative that requires
a little bit less energy
Angie Yu (56:43):
I did that a lot last year, actually.
when my relationship was inlimbo and I.
Couldn't talk to the otherperson about what the fuck was
going on because there was somuch lying and so much
manipulation.
The only way for me to reallymake sense of what I was going
on inside my head was I justkept recording these voice notes
when I couldn't sleep.
Kristy Yee (57:04):
And
Angie Yu (57:04):
I would basically record these voice notes until I
pass it.
kind of my version of cryingmyself to sleep because I was so
exhausted that I couldn't cryanymore.
And.
And that sounds really fuckingsad, but it worked, it got me
through another night andsometimes that's that's all you
(57:25):
can do is you look for a littlebit of closure every day.
You look for a little bit ofmeaning every day to keep going.
Kristy Yee (57:34):
I think that is a really great way for us to just
wrap up this episode for today.
I think finally is, is somethingthat we've mentioned before is
that symptoms aren't alwaysapparent.
And it could take a while for usto even recognize that there are
symptoms because you could justbe like, you know, today I'm
just not in the mood today.
(57:54):
Right?
So you might not even noticethat you're, we're actually
displaying a depressive symptomsor going through a depressive
phase.
Until days, weeks, months, maybepeople could be yours.
Yup.
And that's why I think it'sreally, it's powerful to check
in with ourselves a lot and tolearn, and we're both learning
(58:18):
Angie and I, and to just keeplearning more about yourself so
that you do catch yourself maybenext time, a little bit more
easily when you are about toenter or when you are in a
depressive phase.
Angie Yu (58:30):
That's right.
Kristy Yee (58:31):
Alright.
Well, hanging out with you guysnext time.
Thanks for joining us today.
Bye.
Bye.
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