February 29, 2024 • 53 mins
This episode promises to deliver some wisdom from Mike's captivating hunting stories in the Northwest, wielding vintage Remingtons, to sub-gauge shotguns paired with cutting-edge Bismuth ammo for hunting. Lean in as we talk about Mike's journey from his hunting heritage to aiming for a world vet title in the disciplined arena of competitive shotgun sports.
Join us as we explore the camaraderie and dedication within the shooting community, where size and physical fitness play their part in staying on target. We dissect the recent Jack Links Cup in Florida, get into Mike's ambitious travel for sport, and talk about his transition into the vet class with eyes set on the prize. Whether you're a beginner or a veteran in the world of sporting clays, this conversation is loaded with insightful reflections on the sport's competitive and adventurous spirit.
Finally, we discuss registering for events and the issues we are facing. Discover the enchanting Rock Mountain Sporting Clays facilities that blend history and innovation for hosting premier events. And for those who geek out on gear, you won't want to miss our detailed discussion on Pilla shooting lenses and ammunition preferences that could sharpen your game. Tune in for a shot of inspiration and a barrel full of knowledge with Zach and Mike.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:20):
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Thanks for listening andremember to visit us online at
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Instagram.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
In this episode I have two well-known shooters and
coaches that know how to win.
We talk a little bit abouteverything and find out more
about each other.
It's always fun talking tothese guys and I'm glad they
were able to come on again.
Please welcome back to the showZach Keenbaum and Mike Wilgus.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
I've asked Justin several times and I've told him
that I don't know why.
If I was going to interviewsomeone on this podcast, mike is
the first one that's come tomind.
He's just a guy that I met Iwas in college age and he was
(01:59):
from the West Coast and shooting.
Well, I've just always lookedup to Mike.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
You've brought him up several times.
Hey, let's get Mike on.
I said Zach, I've had Mike on.
He's like no, you haven't.
I said yes, I have.
Now Mike's only been on onepodcast that I know of Mike.
Can you correct me if I'm wrong?
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Yeah, yours yeah, and it was, I don't know.
I think we did it in like 2020,didn't we?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
It was a long time ago, it's been a while.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
It was a long time.
I went back and listened to ittoday.
It was pretty good.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
So is there other questions that you come out of
that podcast wanting to ask, ordid Mike not?
Speaker 3 (02:39):
finish it.
I think you guys covered itfairly well, but I'd love to
hear when I talked and spenttime with Mike.
He's always telling me storiesabout when he was younger, but I
think he could expand a littlebit more on where he's from and
his family and how he got intothe outdoors.
I wonder why the outdoors,sports and hunting is important
(03:02):
to him.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Yeah, I mean I can expand on that my dad was in the
Air Force, so you know we movedas kids.
We moved all over the place,but I was born in Galveston,
texas, and then, you know, a fewyears later, shortly after that
, we ended up in Tri-Cities,which is Eastern Washington, and
(03:24):
there's a lot, as Zach knows,there's a lot of outdoor things
there.
As far as hunting goes and mydad was an avid hunter, so we
would back then it was easy, youcould hunt anywhere, everything
wasn't all leased up and wewould literally go.
He'd pick me up, pull me out ofschool, we'd go duck hunting
before school and drop me backoff.
(03:46):
We had a limit and I mean itwas.
It was crazy.
Back then We'd pass, shootgeese at, you know, five feet
over our head and we hunted alot.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Did you just kind of sort of get back into hunting,
or have you been hunting and wejust haven't seen pictures of it
, or is this?
Speaker 4 (04:00):
I mean, I just actually did kind of get back
into it this year.
I mean, I've I've always gone,maybe once a year, but with
Kayla and us just being so busyI have not gone.
This year I went a fair bit andand Zach and I went together
over in Eastern Washington KevinMichael and Dominic Gross and
(04:22):
we had a blast.
We had a good time.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
I know I that was an epic trip.
I don't want to let the cat outof the bag, but that that
region is, in my opinion, one ofthe very, very best parts of
the country to kill Waterfall.
There's no question.
No, everyone wants to go toArkansas and now Missouri and
(04:47):
Kansas.
Northwest is where it's at forsure.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
And and Justin, I don't think fact thought I could
hit a duck.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
He brought, he brought out, or you could tell
the story, but he brought out aspecial gun and I watched him
kill a Drake Mallard with it.
Pretty, pretty cool.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
Well, zach was all about bringing sub gauge and I
didn't.
I don't have a 28 gauge but Igo.
Ok, I'll bring my 410.
I've got a 410 1100 that I hadas a kid.
I mean my dad, my dad shot it,I shot it, we all shot it.
But you know I killed stuffwith that as a kid and my dad
passed away and I ended up withthat gun and I mean literally
(05:26):
this gun.
Kayla shot it, you know Ipulled the pad off.
She'd shoot clays on the ground.
That's what she started with.
So I popped the pad back onthat thing.
It's like a 26 inch 1100 410, 3inch full.
So I brought that in the blindwith us on that hunt over in
Othello and the first duck ofthe day for me was that gun with
(05:49):
a three inch Bismuth 5 and justknocked it out of the sky.
So that was pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
So this is a Remington 1100.
I don't don't even make thatgun anymore, do they?
Speaker 4 (06:00):
know, and it's pretty mint right, Zach.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
It's in great shape for as old as you told me it was
.
It's an awesome shape, you know.
So that was a highlight.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
That'd be a cool gun.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
That was it.
It's really cool, so that was ahighlight of the day, shooting
one with that.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Yeah, you're shooting a youth model 410 Remington.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Yeah all the new Bismuth ammo available has
really brought these sub gaugesback, and I think you're going
to see more and more of thatpeople hunting with their old
guns and guns that maybecouldn't shoot steel in the past
.
You're going to see a lot moreof that.
It's a lot of fun.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
Next season we're going to have Winchester three
inch Bismuth 28 gauge.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Oh yeah, so that's going to be good, I killed a lot
of ducks with that this year.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Mike, you're going to get a 28 gauge now.
You're still going to shoot the410.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
No, I think Zach might talk me into getting a 28
gauge for next year.
Why?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Zach, why is everybody or I guess it's just
you, but everybody goes with you?
You're like all right, you gotto shoot sub gauge.
Why are you shooting 28?
Speaker 3 (07:00):
It's not, it's not just me.
I got a whole group of buddiesthat are shooting 20s and 28s.
It's, I promise you, I killedover 150 ducks and geese this
season with 28 gauge.
I don't think I'd have killed155 with the 12th.
It is beyond capable.
(07:20):
And and when you do findsuccess and and and kill limits
with 28, I promise you thesatisfaction is it's a different
set Satisfaction it's.
It's so much fun.
That's kind of sad.
I have to put that gun up.
Honestly, you're about a monthago.
I'm like I was holding it.
I'm like, oh, I'm not going toget to shoot you for a while.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
You'll break it out at Nationals.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah, I'll shoot it at Nationals.
Do you have the upland 28?
What are you shooting?
Speaker 3 (07:50):
I have the Beretta upland magnum.
Yeah, it's a new three inchBeretta A 400.
There's some good two and threequarter inch ammo available,
especially for lead, but a lotof these waterfowl loads are now
three inch and Benelli makes athree inch model.
Beretta's got got their threeinch now and now the ammo
companies are all falling suitand coming out with a lot of
(08:12):
good stuff.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I was.
We're talking about guns.
I was in a gun store the otherday and I saw a Beretta on the
wall and it was a A 300 sportingwhich I haven't seen yet and I
thought it was.
It's black with lime greenaccents.
I thought it was a really coolgun for the price, have you?
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Yeah, that's a cool gun.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Have you seen those?
Speaker 3 (08:33):
I have I know Joe Feneese's got one, desi has one.
They're cool.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
Like it's a lot like a 391, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (08:42):
It's a lot of the same design the triggers a
little triggers a little morelike an A 400.
But that gas, the gas piston,is similar to some of the newer
guns.
But other than that, thatstraight bolt, the you know the
connecting rod, all of that iskind of that old three series
guns that that we all kind ofgrew up shooting and the cycling
(09:05):
of the gun really feelsfamiliar.
So it's, it's a, it's that samedesign that everyone's shot for
so many years.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
Yeah, that's a good gun.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
So, mike, you had a.
You had a pretty good start toyour season at the Jack links
last week.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
I did.
Yeah, I had.
You know I practiced a fair bit.
I couldn't practice up at RockMountain, but I got to practice.
I practice a fair bit three tofour days a week and I came into
that pretty confident,literally before I went I shot
100.
Then I shot at 99 and then goton the plane and the first event
(09:46):
at Jack's link, I shot 98 andthen just kept it rolling
throughout the weekend.
I shot 99, super sporting 99feet, ass, 97, five stand.
It was good.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
I just I was relaxed and Confident and I noticed when
I was looking at the results.
I went to the payouts there's.
You got a pretty healthy payoutthere and some of it looks like
it's coming from a new class.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Yeah, can you believe that?
Speaker 3 (10:14):
That's awesome.
Yeah, so, mike.
Mike this year for the firsttime, is now a vet class shooter
, veteran 55 and over.
Yeah, that just doesn't sound.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
I've been.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
I've been not teasing , I think.
I think, julie, and sometimesyou thought I was teasing, but I
I'd been talking about thiswith you for a couple years and
I I was more excited about itthan you guys were at times.
I Talk about any.
I mean, is there, is there anew fire?
Is it something different tolook at on the on the score
(10:46):
sheet?
What do you think I?
Speaker 4 (10:49):
Don't know, I guess it was.
It's not a new fire, but it's anew, I Guess, a new set of
goals.
But I mean I'm still right uptop in the open.
But yeah, it's nice to haveanother, another concurrent to
go after and new goals of youknow, maybe go win a world vet
title or something this summer.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
There you go, are you on?
You made both teams for TeamUSA.
I did.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
I made Team USA captain of sporting and I made
fee tasks also and I think,mcguire's captain of that one.
That's awesome, so that's good.
We got a strong team.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Oh, awesome team, I was All along.
I would.
I would kind of reiterate toyou I mean it doesn't change,
you're still trying to win HOAevery time, but I would.
I mean I'm ten years away fromvet class and I, I have it in my
sights.
I would, I wouldn't mind.
You know these young kids, youknow the Fenezes and the Todd's
(11:46):
and these kids coming, they'recoming hard.
I Got another ten years to dealwith them, but I would, I would
be excited about I think it'sawesome.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Yeah, it's another bonus, right, I mean it.
It's a good thing.
It's just it keeps me pushinghard.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
You know, try to stay in shape and yeah, it's all
good and that's where and that'swhere I think You're gonna
sustain a lot of success.
I think it as we all get olderand I have something I
definitely have to be thinkingabout.
I, when I watch, I've seen guysthere were great shots kind of
as their health kind of goesthey're shooting, their shooting
(12:24):
drops a bit and I just don't, Idon't see that happening with
you.
I think you're probably is themost in shape 55 year old
shooter I know.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Anthony said if it looks like I missed my shot at
the NBA, yeah, that's the plan,right, stay in shape and keep
grinding in 2023?
Speaker 3 (12:46):
When will cherry won the US Open in 2023?
George Digweed won the worldfee tasks, one of the most
physical world fee tasks that Ihave ever been a part of as A
veteran won the entiretournament, so it doesn't mean
anything other than you get topick up two trophies at every,
every event.
Now, yes, that's true.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
That's true.
Don't you guys think there'ssomething to bigger shooters?
Is there an advantage to bebeing bigger?
Speaker 3 (13:16):
largely, I mean historically A lot of the better
shooters are bigger guys.
Mm-hmm, there's got to besomething to it.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
You think it's a recoil thing or an endurance
thing, or what do you think itis?
He's got to be right.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
That's what I think it is.
You're talking about overweight.
I mean seriously like bigger.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
I'm just talking big, whether you're strong, big,
tall, I mean Look at, look atthe guys I mean that are up top
there's, you know, everyone'sbigger.
Yeah in general.
Not, it's not a.
You know, not everyone isobviously Joe Feneze's tiny, but
it just seemed like a trend.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Yeah, I think there's some to it.
Recoil, accumulation of recoil,being able to truly move the
gun there's probably somethingto it.
But yeah, for for every ten bigguys there's probably two, you
know, joe Feneze's, karen Shed's, yeah, yeah, smaller people,
yeah, and Joe's young.
(14:24):
Who know?
I doubt he's gonna be that,that skinny forever.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Right, you will, right you do.
Yeah, joe's the same size.
He was ten years ago, it seemslike to me.
I saw that video you posted ofhim the other day when he's
running with those hogs in hishand.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Yeah, he's to me.
He still acts like that, youknow what I mean.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Like he's oh, you get him out there chasing hogs.
He's turns into an animal.
That kid doesn't do anything.
You know half-ass, no.
So what'd you guys think ofJacklings?
You're both there, you have fun.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
I had fun.
I thought it was a great event,except for that rain on Sunday,
but it I dealt with it.
Um, but it's always fun to goto Florida out of here for the
winter and get down there in thesunshine, and it's a well-run
event.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
I mean, think how far Mike went to get to Jacklings,
like all the way across Caddycorner, the country.
Oh, yeah, man is how long wasthe flight, mike?
Speaker 4 (15:23):
about five and a half hours, like three and a half
more hours, and I'm in London.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
That's kind of what I was alluding to earlier.
You know I be.
I might live in Georgia now,but I'm definitely a West Coast
guy and I understand the grindthat it takes to compete at the
level that Mike is competing atyear after year for a long time
now.
Take such dedication.
I mean the.
There are great shooters outWest, I promise you.
(15:50):
I mean Myself and Mike andGavin.
We're all from out there.
There's other good shooters andit takes.
It's just there's so farbetween clubs.
There's so many states Do youhave to travel through to get to
any major shoots that it ittakes.
It takes a lot of effort.
I don't think some some point.
(16:12):
You know some parts of Texas orthe southeast or even some
northeast, they don't have totravel like that.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
It's, uh, the big shoots down here.
I was gonna say they're so cool.
I'm gonna say they're so closetogether, exact like the
Caribbean classic.
And then you got Jack links,and you got Gator Cup, you got
Seminole Cup.
I mean, mike, with, for youknow, six hours worth of driving
, you can be at all of thoseplaces.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, that's.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
That's crazy.
I mean you guys are lucky thatthere's so many majors down
there.
But I don't know, I've gottenused to the travel.
So I mean it's difficult, butI've done it for so long.
It's just for me, it's part ofthe job.
I mean I just do it and I'mprobably one of the One of the
people that travels the best inthe country because of that,
even when we go to Europe, I'mjust used to it.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
There's no question, mike, you, you are.
I was before we got on thiscall.
I was thinking to myself I'mlike I can't think of a better,
a better shooter that that has afull-time job away from the
shooting industry.
I think it'd be hard press tofind someone with a better
resume in sporting plays atleast in the modern sporting
(17:15):
plays that it doesn't work at agun club or teach full-time,
right.
So I think that's that shouldbe something you definitely Hang
your hat on, because I thinkthat's special.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Mike getting you.
You move to a Kreg off win twoyears ago 2020 was the first
year and you started out with aparkour, I think.
And now you're, aren't youshooting a high-rib again?
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Yeah, I'm back to the prosporter.
I mean, that's just the gun forme.
I Experimented with those otherones for a while, but for me,
the prosporters, the gun it'sjust suits my size and
everything better.
The other ones feel like kidsguns to me.
Do you think that had a?
Speaker 2 (18:01):
That played a part on your shooting is changing back
to the prosporter.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
Oh yeah, I mean my consistency has come back like
immediately.
So, yeah, all last year, alllast year nationals was great,
rolled into Jax Link, it's great.
So, yeah, all the consistenciesback and yeah, I attribute a
lot to going back to that gun.
Well, what's?
Speaker 2 (18:22):
that what you got to say about that.
He's just it awesome.
There's only a cut.
There's only a few in the wholecountry that shoot those guns.
Super well, you know.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
I mean Mike, mike, kevin, karen, kevin DeMichael
still shoots a high rib.
Bill's bills rib is not what Iwould describe as a true high
rib.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Very no bills ribs problem bills probably more like
a vantage blouse or even lessRight right, but it works for
them.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
I wouldn't, I wouldn't put my students in them
right away, but it definitelyworks for them.
So, mike, uh, I'm your on thelast.
I listen to that last podcast.
Like I said and Kayla was, shewas shooting a fair bit at that
time, but In the in the two,three years since, how she, how
she been doing.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Oh, she's been doing great.
I mean, last summer was kind ofa breakthrough, for especially
when we went over to Europe and,um, you know, she Kayla's a
different animal because shedoesn't feel pressure and she
just went into Europe.
You know, I'm confident and boy, look what she did.
(19:34):
She ended up on the podium atthe world championship and and
she's building on that Latte hergun broke at the world fee test
so we had to deal with thatlate in the season and then,
right before national, she got anew stock by Greenwood and I
think that's gonna be Major plusthis year having that custom
(19:54):
stock on the gun.
Finally, oh, no question.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
I tell people I mean the stocks more important than
the gun at times.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Right, right, and she's still in the bread.
A 400.
Um, I, with the new stock, isliterally no recoil in that
thing.
It's awesome.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
She's growing, she's, she's, she's growing a lot.
But I mean, even even at thisage, at that size, they still
want to keep her as comfortableas possible.
You know, learning those moves,learning those different shots,
without recoil being a thoughtin your mind In the long run,
huge.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
So you think we ought to stay with that?
Speaker 3 (20:33):
longer For the time being.
Yeah, I mean yeah we'll see.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
did you, did you think that?
I guess you probably did thinkthat cable would be shooting,
but did you think she would beshooting as well as she is?
I want to say as fast as she is?
Speaker 4 (20:49):
I would say, yeah, I did think she would be shooting
to that level.
I mean, I actually think thisyear you're gonna see more of a
leap out of her.
To say the truth, she's justgetting so much bigger and
stronger and and she knows whereto put the gun.
I mean, I've never seen anyoneLiterally be able to hang on to,
to quartering birds like I'venever seen anyone hang on to
(21:12):
birds like her and be able tojust crush them.
And she's gonna have a big year.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Nice.
She like basketball, or doesshe like?
Speaker 4 (21:21):
shooting best.
I would say she likes both.
But you know basketball iscompartmentalized because she's
the season's over, like thisweekend.
They just left for state today,so it's over after that and
then we can get you know.
Next week we go to Arizona forthe regional, so she hasn't
practiced a lot before thisregional, but she'll be fine and
(21:41):
you know this will be her startto the season and and we'll go
from there.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
I remember Zack you might have remembered this.
I know you remember this, youyou took a picture of Kayla when
she was I don't know how shewas.
She was young and posted onlineand said this is gonna be your
next National or world champion.
I don't remember.
I said yeah, future future.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
It's her doing an I dominance test, pointing at the
camera, and I Mean I've knownKayla since she was tiny I mean
tiny and we would do I dominancetest on her back then and she
just strong light, which is rare, super rare for any young lady
and she's just I don't know shegot it in her blood.
(22:22):
Man she was.
She's been around those shootssince before she could walk and
she just Understands the gameinnately in a way that she
doesn't even realize at timesit's pretty cool to watch.
She's not like Mike said, shedoesn't get nervous because
she's been around the some ofthe best players in the game her
(22:44):
whole life and None of it's toobig.
So she's gonna be exciting towatch for sure.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Speaking of, I guess, the lady shooters.
They're getting awful closeguys.
Yeah, they are.
I mean like they're gettingclose.
When do you think is that?
When do you think you'll see alady H?
Oh hey, the whole tournament.
Are we closer than we thenwe've ever been?
Probably, I guess we are.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
I mean we're closer than we've ever been.
It would still surprise me at abig 200 burger when it when you
know, when everyone's thereespecially.
But some of these mid majorshoots that could happen, who
knows, I think I think two yearsago Madison sharp hide for
(23:31):
third at a regional in Arizona.
I Don't think she won the shootoff so I don't think she stood
on the podium, but I believe shetied for third.
That's about the best to an, atleast in our country.
You know what our tour eventsthat's gotten to?
That's close.
I mean that's really close.
That's pretty close.
(23:51):
Yep, that's.
Coaching gets better as ourtournaments just get Better.
These girls are coming alongright along with everybody else.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Let's.
What are you talking about?
Tournaments?
I want to bring up something toboth of you and see what you
have to say about this.
I've I'm on the Score chaserpro program, but I don't use it.
I think I just get it.
So I get text messages when Istart, or something like that.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
I don't know what I'm doing with it but I think it's
a great idea.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
But are you, are you two guys, having a hard time
getting into tournaments Like Iam?
Because I don't sign up.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
When I sign up, you know two months before well, I'm
not, but I'm also using thatscore chaser pro and they sign
us up as the shoots open.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Yeah, I'm on the score chaser pro also, and
because of that I Always get in.
But and if I didn't have that,I'd have a problem because I'm
always late to do everything.
But yeah, they sign us up rightwhen the shoots come out, which
is double-edged sword, becausewe're paying deposits like a lot
of money in deposits Eight,nine months in advance now, yeah
(25:00):
, but all the, all the shootsfill up, you know, and be yeah
because of score chaser pro.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
All the events fill up early and Getting into events
later on in the process hasbecome an issue, which I think
is what you're describing.
Yeah, justin, but yeah, I thinkyou just need to fill out your
preference sheet and have themstart signing up to the shoot.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yeah, you want them to well, you know, it's like
they come out with Nationals isover and then now you can
register for Nationals next year.
I mean, I don't know if I cango next year.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
There's no sense I mean I don't.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
It's kind of like I told somebody today Well, I
don't want to sign up for stuff,not knowing that I Can't, that
I can make it.
You know, I don't know if I canmake it, so I'm just taking up
a spot If I can't make it, andthen it's.
You know, I'll cancel a week ortwo before I go because I know
I can't go, but Then somebodyelse can't go because they've
(25:56):
been.
You know what I mean.
It's like a.
It's like it's confusing to me.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Yeah, it's like Mike said.
It's a double-edged sword, forsure.
Yeah, I don't know what theanswer probably somewhere in the
middle, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
Yeah, I don't have the answer either, but it's
definitely a problem.
And you're right, justin, Idon't like when people sign up
and then they don't show up.
But yeah, I don't know anotherway to do it, because you have
to sign up early to get a spotat most of these, like Gator Cup
in a couple Weeks.
It's full so, but we all knowthere's gonna be cancellations
(26:30):
and people won't show up.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Yeah, that's what I tell Mike.
I say, if you're just standingin front of those girls on
Thursday or Friday, they'regonna get you in.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
I talked to Rick today I thought.
Rick today about that and hesaid just show up.
I said okay.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
So, yes, it's a little tougher to show up when
you're 4,000 miles away, though,without knowing You're gonna
get in you're either gonna shootthe Gator Cup or you're gonna
spend a weekend of speech.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
I mean, right away, you're probably right, right,
yeah, but it is an issue,there's no question it's.
It's interesting.
Everything, everything evolves.
I guess Casey's a smart girl.
I bet she's gonna figure it out, though.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
So, both of you being coaches, what do you think
about the new lessons thingsshe's come out with her?
Are you gonna utilize that ordoes it fit your?
Speaker 3 (27:18):
I had Talked to her about it a couple months ago.
I'm more than willing to To useit.
I haven't really had a chanceto look at what she's posted
here recently, but it should begood.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
Yeah, I haven't looked, but I talked to her
about it and I'm definitelygonna do it when I free up some
time for a rock mountain and andset up lessons there.
It's a lot easier with thatSystem to get everything booked
in and and planned outaccordingly.
So, yeah, I think I'll use it.
Yeah, rock Mountain, that Imean, anybody that Would have a
(27:54):
chance to go.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Number one take a lesson from Mike and Just get to
go to rock mountain and shootsporting clays.
I mean, you got it, you gottago.
Mike, you talked about rockmountain on the last podcast.
You did, but that's a specialplace, man, can you tell
everyone a little more about thehistory of rock mountain and
(28:16):
and what it actually is?
Yeah, so rock mountain.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
Originally the late Jeff Vanden Top Built this range
and it's it's reallymountainous and rocky and it's a
lot of rock and hilly andunlike any terrain, most people
in the USC, but Anyways, whenJeff passed away I had already
been a part owner of it.
But then, come to this day,there's 13 of us who own it.
(28:46):
It's on 75 acres, which isn'tgiant, but We've got, you know,
three towers.
Now We've got 32 stations,sporting course, probably 150
chromatic traps, all wireless.
I mean it's we call it trainingground of champions.
I mean it really is an amazingfacility and Justin.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
I don't think you realize.
It's like shooting in anational park.
There are there are bouldersthe size of houses that Jeff and
these guys moved around likeStrategically around this
mountain.
I mean it is incredible.
And about half the stationshave themes to them.
So there's literally a duck pitwhere you're right at the edge
(29:33):
of the water and it's likeyou're in an old school duck
line.
There's a saloon.
You walk into a saloon, youwalk into a jail.
There's jail where you'reshooting out the bars in the
back.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
Is it chapel?
There's a Chapel.
We've got the world recordfishing pole with a bobber in
the pond.
Oh yeah, yeah, it's pretty cool, I mean it.
And the training, like I said,is that like for me, training
there for Europe last year.
It made Europe seem easy to meand I'm not kidding when I say
(30:06):
that.
So if you, if anyone gets achance, I'm gonna hold two
shoots there this summer, april27th and June 22nd full 200 bird
registered events with Trophiesand all which are kind of cool.
They're they're actually rockswith our, our logo on them.
And, yeah, we can get a rock,not rock.
(30:27):
That's awesome, it's about anhour if you were at the airport
in Seattle.
It's an hour and a half north.
And then Future.
Maybe in the next year or twoWe'll have a state shoot there
or something else.
So hopefully we can get some ofthe pros across the country to
come out here and check it out.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
It's awesome.
They used to hold a big shoot,the Western open.
That ran for probably close toa decade.
That a lot of top shooters, infact.
One year it was a.
It was a qualifier for Team USA.
Was it a zone or was it a?
Wasn't a?
Speaker 4 (30:59):
regional it.
It wasn't, but somehow theymade it a qualifier and remember
we, we actually Resquattedbased on top to bottom scores.
I've literally got a picture ona rock of me, zach Wendell,
john Krueger, brad kid andSomeone else.
(31:19):
I mean we, we all shot a big, amajor there.
Yeah, oh yeah, I remember soit's.
We'd like to bring that back.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
I love shooting in the north.
Any Any northern state just hastopography, it has terrain,
it's not humid, good, goodseafood.
Oh my god, tell them, those arejust some incredible shoots up
there.
I I Wish you get it going andI'd love to come back.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
How does it work with that many owners?
Mike, y'all agree on everything, or how does I mean?
You have me.
How does that work with themany owners?
Speaker 4 (31:53):
No, we have a couple meetings a year.
I mean, we're all on the samepage.
It works fine.
We pay dues, you know, and thenthese shoots bring in money.
So One of my my good buddypartners is John Thorpe and he's
really into, I mean, makingthis place top notch.
So we're, we're really thisyear is gonna be big.
(32:13):
We're buying a lot of new stuff, we're getting new gravel on
the whole course and thisconstant improvement.
So, yeah, it works great with13 guys.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Your buddy from up there.
What's his name?
Oh, cowboy hat.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
Trevor yeah, trevor.
Trevor's actually an owner too,yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
I'm just ever is a.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
Trevor's a good trap mechanic.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Is he?
Speaker 4 (32:33):
Yeah, he actually is.
That guy is awesome.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
I'm telling you he was.
He is so funny to me I.
Speaker 4 (32:40):
Don't know.
Yeah, he has a good time.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Yeah, last week at Jack, like that, I was telling
Johnny and Mike I'm like let'sgo, I want to take, I want to
take Trevor Ducconning next year.
And they're like okay, okay.
And then they both, both oftheir faces changed and they're
like Are you sure I?
Speaker 4 (33:01):
Don't know, I don't know Zach had handled Trevor in
the duck blind.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
I can handle it.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
I think it'd be fun the first time we went out to
eat with him, that Kayla wassitting next to him and it's
like she just knew how to takehim.
And I've never met Trevor andoh you know he was saying things
like wow this guy right here.
Kayla just laughed at him likeit wasn't what, nothing to it,
and I just I didn't know how totake him.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (33:26):
Like it's yeah, yeah, yeah you, you were probably
shocked, but yeah, once, onceyou know him and his story, and
yeah, you, just you manage.
I mean I shot the wholejackslink with him.
So trust me, I know that weshot.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
I think we were at cross-creaker.
We were somewhere Shooting withTrevor and he walks up.
He comes walking down thecourse With his bag on his
shoulder in flip-flops.
I cut off Western shirt and acowboy hat.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
I guarantee a lot of listeners.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
They're thinking I don't.
Who are they talking about?
It's the guy from out west thatshoots without a shirt on half
the time.
Speaker 4 (34:07):
Yeah you have all.
Yeah.
The big trucker tattoo on hisback, yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
These damn West coasters yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Yeah, if you get.
If you get a chance to shootwith Trevor slice names human
right.
Yes, yeah, if you get a chanceto shoot with him, he's he's
never in a bad mood.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
I had never seen him in a no no he's a who.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
now that you're in vet class, what are your goals?
Any new goals?
Speaker 4 (34:37):
Well, yeah, there's some new goals.
I mean, I always have, like wetalked about earlier, always
have my open goals, but as faras vet goes, I'd like to win a
world championship and anational championship and Keep
making captain of the the teamsfor a Long time from now.
(34:58):
So I I think I'm poised to dothat.
That's awesome.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
Yeah, I think you got you as the, as one of the top
vets.
Now I think you need toEncourage some of the other
better vets to make the team andaccept these positions to go
overseas.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
Yeah, and that kid next year.
We got to talk about thatbecause you know going we're be
going to Europe next not thisyear, but go next year and we
need to talk about a couple ofthe gut top guys.
We need to get on that team andand go win over there.
So you're exactly right.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
I think you have the right shooters.
We just need to have them allthere.
That's correct, you know that'shalf the problem.
Yeah, both you being in theUnited States this year will
have a great field of vets, butit's not always the case.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Is it the travel that ?
Speaker 1 (35:54):
you're.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
Yeah, why do you suppose they don't go?
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Zach, it's the travel , it's just.
I Mean we've all seen somepeople love that travel and some
people Don't handle it as well.
It's everything's different,everything's new and Some
personalities just don't don'ttake to that.
But they've all done it beforethey can handle it.
(36:18):
They can, they can go see well.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
I mean, I love it, I'd go, I'd go every year if we
could.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
so we try to right.
Speaker 4 (36:26):
Yeah, I mean I, some of those ranges you and I went
to last summer were were a blastand I think that was key, that
we did get there early and wedid those competitions.
I really think it helped us.
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
Hungry was pretty incredible, but just the terrain
, the cliffs, everything.
Like Mike said he's he's from anorthern state with terrain he
was really at home, and some ofthat if you're from Flatland of
Houston or Florida is verydifferent, very different.
What are, what are, some of thefavorite places you've gotten
the chance to travel to andshoot?
Speaker 4 (37:05):
Well, I mean always England is EJ Churchill's a top
one.
As far as out of the country, Iliked it when we went and
trained at Owls Lodge, eventhough it was small, but we had
a great time.
Barbary we went to this year.
That was a great shoot.
Yeah, sporting targets, it's asmall little range over in
(37:28):
England and, and Zach and I wentthere and shot the power
challenge.
That was a great time.
That was incredible.
Zach shot it amazing, by theway, but uh, yeah, that was a
great day.
I can't remember what was thename of the one.
We went to it.
Well, love its place.
That was a good shoot.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
That super, oh yeah, um, I know what you're talking
about in the Cotswolds, yeah, sothey're not thinking is a name.
Yeah, england, good, england'slike a ride of passage is what
I've always told my students.
You go, not just aboutChurchill or wherever you're
shooting it's, it's everywhereelse You're gonna visit and cut
(38:07):
your teeth on target You'venever seen, and just that's
awesome.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
Yeah, it goes.
It goes beyond that.
I mean driving just to getthere.
I mean the On the wrong side ofthe road there's a lot, but I
mean, every time I come backfrom Europe I feel like a better
shooter.
No question, no question.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
What are your other other?
I thought England, what other?
What other streets have youliked?
I mean, America.
Speaker 4 (38:30):
I mean, obviously I like rock mountain here, but as
far as major clubs, I likeEminem, backwoods, meadows.
I haven't, I haven't gone tofourth city yet, so this year
will be my first time there.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Oh nice, oh you've never been looking forward to
that I have not, no.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
Wow, he's never.
I've lived here for four yearshe's never come to visit.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
I guess you're gonna have a house guest during the
regional then, right?
Speaker 4 (39:00):
It seems like nobody has room there, so I'm probably
gonna be stuck in a hotel atthat one.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Well, I'll send you the hotel I stayed in last time
was super nice, and I'll sendyou the link to that.
Okay, I got a room yet, yeah,four cities, a big place, it's
um.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
I told people Just recently it's gonna be one of
the shoots that you that'smemorable because of the
shooting but also because theafter-hour stuff is gonna be.
You know, everyone's notstaying an hour every direction.
Everyone's gonna be reallyclose by.
There's tons of excellentrestaurants.
(39:36):
It's just gonna be a shoot thata lot of people circle after
the years over and they reallyenjoyed, you know so, even jack
links or even backwards some ofthese other shoots.
You're you're in the car for 45minutes each way to get to the
event.
You're gonna be five to ten,fifteen minutes from Forest City
(39:57):
and and Great places to visitin between.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
So yeah, that'll be one of the more fun shoots, I
promise.
Yeah, these 45 minute drivesget old.
I mean, you're so tired by thetime you leave the club you
barely want to go out to dinnerbecause you just in the car so
long.
Right?
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Right, well, that'll be great.
What place am I gonna eat atthat when I go there?
Speaker 3 (40:23):
Well, right by the club there's excellent barbecue.
There's a pretty good Mexicanrestaurant for Georgia.
Being a West Coast guy, I'm alittle picky on my Mexican food.
It's pretty good.
There's an excellent New Yorkdeli.
They as good a deli as I'veever seen Right there by the gun
(40:44):
club, all within five minutesof the gun club.
Um, some different other stufftoo there's.
There's some great spots.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
That's funny, I you know.
I thought when you said, beinga West Coast guy, I'm really
picky about my Mexican food.
Is that because your roots goback to Mexico?
Speaker 3 (41:08):
No, because the Mexican food on the West Coast
is flat out better, michael backme up, he's right.
Speaker 4 (41:16):
He's right, justin.
It's more authentic.
You know it's not Tex-Mex orwhatever.
So he's right, it is better,for sure.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
We went.
We went to the same Mexicanrestaurant three days in a row
for lunch.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
yeah, couple of our guys didn't want to go where we
going for lunch, I were going toMexican again.
Yes, and it was good.
It was authentic and good, yes,yes.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
I dominant gross when he landed on I.
When we picked him up at theairport, he's.
He said I don't know where, howhe came out.
But he said oh well, you're theonly Mexican in Washington.
I'm like, are you crazy?
Eastern Washington is allMexican.
Speaker 4 (42:01):
He was not the only one.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
I found a authentic Mexican restaurant here where I
live about a month ago and it'slike down an alleyway behind a
school next to a gas station.
I mean it's it's.
I said, what is this place?
I walk in and they've gotnothing.
It's like a grocery store forMexican food.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
Oh, probably like a yeah meat market or something.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Yeah, a meat market, I can talk right in there.
Speaker 3 (42:36):
Yep, yep.
You should buy some of thatstuff, I guarantee it's good.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Well, I ate some of it.
I'm like, I just don't like.
I guess it's because I'm usedto eating Tex-Mex, you know what
.
I mean it's like it's totallydifferent to eat real, authentic
Mexican food versus just.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
Oh yeah, my advice for anybody being a, you know, a
larger stature, you know I eata lot and I am a quarter Mexican
.
My advice for anybody walkinginto a Mexican restaurant is,
when you walk in, if there arenot Mexicans eating, turn around
.
No, that's not good.
(43:12):
That's exactly.
If the Mexicans eat there, eatthere.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
That is correct.
And if they, if they don'tunderstand what you're saying
when you go in, it's probablygood too, it's probably good.
Yes, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
I Can sport eating our way across.
Speaker 4 (43:31):
Hey, Justin, are we gonna give any shout outs to to
sponsors or what ammo we shootor anything?
Yeah, go for it.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
You know that's my question.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
Do not edit this.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Yeah, go for it.
Well, if can you ask me thequestion, all right, the
question is, mike, you haveanybody you'd like to shout out,
like any sponsors or well, youknow Kree got for my gun.
Speaker 4 (43:57):
I'm shooting a pro sport or 32 inch or and you know
the big one is WinchesterProbably the hardest hitting
ammo made.
And I'm shooting the 1250 superhandicap ounce and an eighths
for sporting and 1291 ouncelight handicaps for fee tasks.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
I was talking to a guy tonight on the way home that
mentioned you, dennis, withclay target vision.
You and Zach are both on his,his protein, and it seems like
every time I talk, soon one ofyour names probably desi more
than both of you, but but butone of your names are always
(44:36):
coming up.
Yeah, I really appreciate Mikeand I appreciate Zach, and you
know, so I know he supports bothof y'all and anybody listening.
If you're looking for a set ofpillows, that's the guy to go to
for sure.
Speaker 4 (44:48):
He takes good care of us.
And I'll tell you one thing Iknow Zach Doesn't wear them, but
I've been wearing that newprogressive Dragon fruit and
it's the new technologyprogressive.
So you literally can't visuallysee that line.
Mm-hmm, I am, I'm amazed bythat lens.
I wore that lens the wholeweekend in Florida.
I'm just amazed by that lensDragon fruit, progressive.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
I don't have that one .
I think I got that love it.
Speaker 4 (45:17):
I also have a 47 C I HC that I love to and it's not
progressive.
But those are my two go-tolenses and I would say they're
Kayla's too.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
What color?
Speaker 4 (45:28):
eyes.
Do you have, mike Hazel?
Another one is there's a 72.
It's orange.
You should look in andliterally in Washington, where
it in all low light conditionsand I've even worn it at night
shooting and it's amazing.
I mean you could get with thosethree lenses.
I said you could get by withalmost every lighting condition.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
I've got it right here, I'll just gotta find it.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
Justin has every pillow lens known to man.
I know two people that haveevery pillow lens.
It's Justin Barker and StormyWeatherford.
Really, yes, they pride myselfon their lens collections.
Speaker 4 (46:06):
Yeah, I find myself just wearing a few different
ones.
I mean, I I'm not a lenschanger, I kind of just pick and
go with it 72 CIM X.
That is awesome, that's.
I literally wear that every dayin Washington.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Yeah, that's a.
That's a new one.
They actually just come out anew one, yeah.
Speaker 4 (46:26):
Yeah, it's, it's a game changer for low light.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Zack, there might be something you need to look into.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
I need to look into that I'm not good at low light.
Zack likes darker lenses.
I need light, I need sunlight.
I mean, there's no doubt I gota really good score in the rain
the other day.
It was dark, but most of myreally good shooting is when
it's bright.
Yeah, you get you a good score.
(46:52):
As I get old, as I get older, Irealize that.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
What's your lenses?
What do you shoot?
My Mike called out his three.
What's your three?
Speaker 3 (47:01):
I shoot a ton of of 18 ced.
Yeah, kind of the old staplethere's.
I know a lot of good shootersthat still just use that one
when it starts.
If it's green out like Floridais, I'm, like the southeast is,
and it starts getting overcastor rainy, I kind of go to those
(47:24):
cin, the purple, purple tint 19s.
Um, those, those help me.
Obviously I'm dark eyed.
I have really really dark,brown eyes and To me those ed,
those brown, amber tints and andpurples have always worked very
well for me.
Um, like I said, I havestruggled with low light, you
know, and it's really gettingclose to dusk, and Dennis has
(47:49):
been helping me out with somedifferent, just looking for more
contrast in that gray light.
I'm trying to get there.
Um, like I said, some of mybest shootings when it's when
it's brighter out, for sure,yeah, that's interesting,
because I don't like purplewhatsoever.
Speaker 4 (48:06):
You think it's an eye color thing.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
I yeah, it has to do with eye color?
Speaker 2 (48:10):
I'm sure it does, for sure, mike, that's all I shoot
in, honestly.
I mean, I'm not to where youall are, but all I shoot in is
our 19 CINs.
I don't care if it's 11 o'clockat night or if it's eight
o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 3 (48:26):
Most of the time, Ryan Harper, I think shoots in
that lens quite a bit yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (48:33):
Um, yeah, I'm just, I'm a lighter lens guy, I don't.
I don't shoot those really darklenses, yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
You're going back to stormy.
You said stormy has a bunch oflenses.
I saw him down at Jack linksand he said he's wearing the new
raptors from Pila and I saidyeah, we were talking about him.
He says I got every single lensthey make he's.
I got them all.
I bought 20 when I was at thegrand.
I said what Okay?
Speaker 4 (49:02):
Here you go.
That's expensive yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (49:07):
I think he has every.
He has every Beretta, he hasevery Pila lens.
Yeah, I know for a fact he hasa set of every kind of choke
tube, every company's choketubes he's got.
He's just a collector.
Speaker 4 (49:21):
He's into it.
Yeah, zach, let's talk about uhyour thoughts on that.
Uh, diamond trap Cause I knowyou were shooting some at uh
Jack's link.
Speaker 3 (49:33):
Yeah, that diamond trap, the uh, I've kind of
gravitated towards the.
The diamond trap is differentthan the original diamond grade.
The original diamond gradescopper plated.
Um, the diamond trap is 8%anammoni.
Non plated.
Yep, Um, and I think I just getmore of that smoke.
You break them with that, withthe copper, similar to some of
(49:57):
the European loads that arecoated.
They have some differentcoatings on them.
Um, I don't get that dark smokebreak that.
I do with dark lead, with acoated lead, if that makes any
sense.
Speaker 4 (50:12):
Yeah, so you like, you actually like the trap, the
non plated better Non plated 8%anammoni diamond trap is
incredible.
Speaker 3 (50:21):
I'll shoot that at any anything long on edge.
Uh, rabbits, stuff like that.
We had several birds, um, atJack links that I shot them on.
I don't feel like need them foreverything.
You know, if there's some, ifthat birds within 40, uh, you
can't tell me there's a bettershell than a super handicap.
Um, right, but when it get,when I need that pattern to be a
(50:45):
little tighter, if I want makesure I've got multiple pellet
strikes on something that's outthere a ways that, uh, that
diamond grade shines for sure.
Speaker 4 (50:55):
That's.
That's kind of how I feel.
I always like to have few withme.
Speaker 3 (50:59):
I've got I think I finally talked them into I think
they're going to load it laterthis year is a one ounce, 12,
nine feet diamond trap.
Oh, that's great For the feettest shooters.
Speaker 2 (51:11):
Well, I think that's probably it.
I appreciate both of you comingon.
Zach, your idea to have Mike onagain, and I think it was.
You know, I kind of like thesepodcasts where it's just a
conversation, you know, there'sno, there's no outlines, there's
no, there's, you know, there'sno real planning, it's just,
it's just off the cuff.
And I, you know, I kind of feellike that's the way this is and
(51:31):
I enjoyed listening to the, youknow, to the stories and what
have you.
So I appreciate both of youcoming on and taking some time.
Oh, no problem, we'll do itagain, thanks for having us.
Yeah, zach, I mean you're goingto.
You might wear out your welcome.
I mean, you know, every time Isay this on a bunch of podcasts
(51:52):
and I know you listen and I knowyou hear it, you know, every
time somebody comes on they talkabout Zach and what Zach's done
.
Speaker 3 (51:59):
They don't talk about .
They might mention me.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
Yeah Well, I mean.
And then you come on, I meanthat's even work, like, I mean
that's good, but that's evenworse at the same time.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (52:08):
Well, I guess, if we start, if you start getting a
bunch of complaints and comments, and we'll know no, we ain't
going to have none of that.
Speaker 1 (52:16):
Everybody loves Zach.
Speaker 2 (52:17):
He's always been so nice.
He's never like mad or he'salways nice.
No, he doesn't pick on him,he's a good guy.
If you pick on it, then hechanges.
Speaker 4 (52:30):
He's got.
He's got gets his feelings hurteasy.
You got to be careful he does.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
All right, guys.
Thank you for coming on, andI'll see you somewhere here
shortly.
Speaker 4 (52:43):
I don't know what's on the wall.
All right, thanks, justin.
Speaker 2 (52:45):
All right guys.
Thanks, Justin, See you Talk toyou later.
Welcome to Shotgun Sports USA.
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Speaker 2 (01:00):
In this episode I have two well-known shooters and
coaches that know how to win.
We talk a little bit abouteverything and find out more
about each other.
It's always fun talking tothese guys and I'm glad they
were able to come on again.
Please welcome back to the showZach Keenbaum and Mike Wilgus.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
I've asked Justin several times and I've told him
that I don't know why.
If I was going to interviewsomeone on this podcast, mike is
the first one that's come tomind.
He's just a guy that I met Iwas in college age and he was
(01:59):
from the West Coast and shooting.
Well, I've just always lookedup to Mike.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
You've brought him up several times.
Hey, let's get Mike on.
I said Zach, I've had Mike on.
He's like no, you haven't.
I said yes, I have.
Now Mike's only been on onepodcast that I know of Mike.
Can you correct me if I'm wrong?
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Yeah, yours yeah, and it was, I don't know.
I think we did it in like 2020,didn't we?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
It was a long time ago, it's been a while.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
It was a long time.
I went back and listened to ittoday.
It was pretty good.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
So is there other questions that you come out of
that podcast wanting to ask, ordid Mike not?
Speaker 3 (02:39):
finish it.
I think you guys covered itfairly well, but I'd love to
hear when I talked and spenttime with Mike.
He's always telling me storiesabout when he was younger, but I
think he could expand a littlebit more on where he's from and
his family and how he got intothe outdoors.
I wonder why the outdoors,sports and hunting is important
(03:02):
to him.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Yeah, I mean I can expand on that my dad was in the
Air Force, so you know we movedas kids.
We moved all over the place,but I was born in Galveston,
texas, and then, you know, a fewyears later, shortly after that
, we ended up in Tri-Cities,which is Eastern Washington, and
(03:24):
there's a lot, as Zach knows,there's a lot of outdoor things
there.
As far as hunting goes and mydad was an avid hunter, so we
would back then it was easy, youcould hunt anywhere, everything
wasn't all leased up and wewould literally go.
He'd pick me up, pull me out ofschool, we'd go duck hunting
before school and drop me backoff.
(03:46):
We had a limit and I mean itwas.
It was crazy.
Back then We'd pass, shootgeese at, you know, five feet
over our head and we hunted alot.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Did you just kind of sort of get back into hunting,
or have you been hunting and wejust haven't seen pictures of it
, or is this?
Speaker 4 (04:00):
I mean, I just actually did kind of get back
into it this year.
I mean, I've I've always gone,maybe once a year, but with
Kayla and us just being so busyI have not gone.
This year I went a fair bit andand Zach and I went together
over in Eastern Washington KevinMichael and Dominic Gross and
(04:22):
we had a blast.
We had a good time.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
I know I that was an epic trip.
I don't want to let the cat outof the bag, but that that
region is, in my opinion, one ofthe very, very best parts of
the country to kill Waterfall.
There's no question.
No, everyone wants to go toArkansas and now Missouri and
(04:47):
Kansas.
Northwest is where it's at forsure.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
And and Justin, I don't think fact thought I could
hit a duck.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
He brought, he brought out, or you could tell
the story, but he brought out aspecial gun and I watched him
kill a Drake Mallard with it.
Pretty, pretty cool.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
Well, zach was all about bringing sub gauge and I
didn't.
I don't have a 28 gauge but Igo.
Ok, I'll bring my 410.
I've got a 410 1100 that I hadas a kid.
I mean my dad, my dad shot it,I shot it, we all shot it.
But you know I killed stuffwith that as a kid and my dad
passed away and I ended up withthat gun and I mean literally
(05:26):
this gun.
Kayla shot it, you know Ipulled the pad off.
She'd shoot clays on the ground.
That's what she started with.
So I popped the pad back onthat thing.
It's like a 26 inch 1100 410, 3inch full.
So I brought that in the blindwith us on that hunt over in
Othello and the first duck ofthe day for me was that gun with
(05:49):
a three inch Bismuth 5 and justknocked it out of the sky.
So that was pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
So this is a Remington 1100.
I don't don't even make thatgun anymore, do they?
Speaker 4 (06:00):
know, and it's pretty mint right, Zach.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
It's in great shape for as old as you told me it was
.
It's an awesome shape, you know.
So that was a highlight.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
That'd be a cool gun.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
That was it.
It's really cool, so that was ahighlight of the day, shooting
one with that.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Yeah, you're shooting a youth model 410 Remington.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Yeah all the new Bismuth ammo available has
really brought these sub gaugesback, and I think you're going
to see more and more of thatpeople hunting with their old
guns and guns that maybecouldn't shoot steel in the past
.
You're going to see a lot moreof that.
It's a lot of fun.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
Next season we're going to have Winchester three
inch Bismuth 28 gauge.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Oh yeah, so that's going to be good, I killed a lot
of ducks with that this year.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Mike, you're going to get a 28 gauge now.
You're still going to shoot the410.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
No, I think Zach might talk me into getting a 28
gauge for next year.
Why?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Zach, why is everybody or I guess it's just
you, but everybody goes with you?
You're like all right, you gotto shoot sub gauge.
Why are you shooting 28?
Speaker 3 (07:00):
It's not, it's not just me.
I got a whole group of buddiesthat are shooting 20s and 28s.
It's, I promise you, I killedover 150 ducks and geese this
season with 28 gauge.
I don't think I'd have killed155 with the 12th.
It is beyond capable.
(07:20):
And and when you do findsuccess and and and kill limits
with 28, I promise you thesatisfaction is it's a different
set Satisfaction it's.
It's so much fun.
That's kind of sad.
I have to put that gun up.
Honestly, you're about a monthago.
I'm like I was holding it.
I'm like, oh, I'm not going toget to shoot you for a while.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
You'll break it out at Nationals.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah, I'll shoot it at Nationals.
Do you have the upland 28?
What are you shooting?
Speaker 3 (07:50):
I have the Beretta upland magnum.
Yeah, it's a new three inchBeretta A 400.
There's some good two and threequarter inch ammo available,
especially for lead, but a lotof these waterfowl loads are now
three inch and Benelli makes athree inch model.
Beretta's got got their threeinch now and now the ammo
companies are all falling suitand coming out with a lot of
(08:12):
good stuff.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I was.
We're talking about guns.
I was in a gun store the otherday and I saw a Beretta on the
wall and it was a A 300 sportingwhich I haven't seen yet and I
thought it was.
It's black with lime greenaccents.
I thought it was a really coolgun for the price, have you?
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Yeah, that's a cool gun.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Have you seen those?
Speaker 3 (08:33):
I have I know Joe Feneese's got one, desi has one.
They're cool.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
Like it's a lot like a 391, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (08:42):
It's a lot of the same design the triggers a
little triggers a little morelike an A 400.
But that gas, the gas piston,is similar to some of the newer
guns.
But other than that, thatstraight bolt, the you know the
connecting rod, all of that iskind of that old three series
guns that that we all kind ofgrew up shooting and the cycling
(09:05):
of the gun really feelsfamiliar.
So it's, it's a, it's that samedesign that everyone's shot for
so many years.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
Yeah, that's a good gun.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
So, mike, you had a.
You had a pretty good start toyour season at the Jack links
last week.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
I did.
Yeah, I had.
You know I practiced a fair bit.
I couldn't practice up at RockMountain, but I got to practice.
I practice a fair bit three tofour days a week and I came into
that pretty confident,literally before I went I shot
100.
Then I shot at 99 and then goton the plane and the first event
(09:46):
at Jack's link, I shot 98 andthen just kept it rolling
throughout the weekend.
I shot 99, super sporting 99feet, ass, 97, five stand.
It was good.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
I just I was relaxed and Confident and I noticed when
I was looking at the results.
I went to the payouts there's.
You got a pretty healthy payoutthere and some of it looks like
it's coming from a new class.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Yeah, can you believe that?
Speaker 3 (10:14):
That's awesome.
Yeah, so, mike.
Mike this year for the firsttime, is now a vet class shooter
, veteran 55 and over.
Yeah, that just doesn't sound.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
I've been.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
I've been not teasing , I think.
I think, julie, and sometimesyou thought I was teasing, but I
I'd been talking about thiswith you for a couple years and
I I was more excited about itthan you guys were at times.
I Talk about any.
I mean, is there, is there anew fire?
Is it something different tolook at on the on the score
(10:46):
sheet?
What do you think I?
Speaker 4 (10:49):
Don't know, I guess it was.
It's not a new fire, but it's anew, I Guess, a new set of
goals.
But I mean I'm still right uptop in the open.
But yeah, it's nice to haveanother, another concurrent to
go after and new goals of youknow, maybe go win a world vet
title or something this summer.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
There you go, are you on?
You made both teams for TeamUSA.
I did.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
I made Team USA captain of sporting and I made
fee tasks also and I think,mcguire's captain of that one.
That's awesome, so that's good.
We got a strong team.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Oh, awesome team, I was All along.
I would.
I would kind of reiterate toyou I mean it doesn't change,
you're still trying to win HOAevery time, but I would.
I mean I'm ten years away fromvet class and I, I have it in my
sights.
I would, I wouldn't mind.
You know these young kids, youknow the Fenezes and the Todd's
(11:46):
and these kids coming, they'recoming hard.
I Got another ten years to dealwith them, but I would, I would
be excited about I think it'sawesome.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Yeah, it's another bonus, right, I mean it.
It's a good thing.
It's just it keeps me pushinghard.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
You know, try to stay in shape and yeah, it's all
good and that's where and that'swhere I think You're gonna
sustain a lot of success.
I think it as we all get olderand I have something I
definitely have to be thinkingabout.
I, when I watch, I've seen guysthere were great shots kind of
as their health kind of goesthey're shooting, their shooting
(12:24):
drops a bit and I just don't, Idon't see that happening with
you.
I think you're probably is themost in shape 55 year old
shooter I know.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Anthony said if it looks like I missed my shot at
the NBA, yeah, that's the plan,right, stay in shape and keep
grinding in 2023?
Speaker 3 (12:46):
When will cherry won the US Open in 2023?
George Digweed won the worldfee tasks, one of the most
physical world fee tasks that Ihave ever been a part of as A
veteran won the entiretournament, so it doesn't mean
anything other than you get topick up two trophies at every,
every event.
Now, yes, that's true.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
That's true.
Don't you guys think there'ssomething to bigger shooters?
Is there an advantage to bebeing bigger?
Speaker 3 (13:16):
largely, I mean historically A lot of the better
shooters are bigger guys.
Mm-hmm, there's got to besomething to it.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
You think it's a recoil thing or an endurance
thing, or what do you think itis?
He's got to be right.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
That's what I think it is.
You're talking about overweight.
I mean seriously like bigger.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
I'm just talking big, whether you're strong, big,
tall, I mean Look at, look atthe guys I mean that are up top
there's, you know, everyone'sbigger.
Yeah in general.
Not, it's not a.
You know, not everyone isobviously Joe Feneze's tiny, but
it just seemed like a trend.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Yeah, I think there's some to it.
Recoil, accumulation of recoil,being able to truly move the
gun there's probably somethingto it.
But yeah, for for every ten bigguys there's probably two, you
know, joe Feneze's, karen Shed's, yeah, yeah, smaller people,
yeah, and Joe's young.
(14:24):
Who know?
I doubt he's gonna be that,that skinny forever.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Right, you will, right you do.
Yeah, joe's the same size.
He was ten years ago, it seemslike to me.
I saw that video you posted ofhim the other day when he's
running with those hogs in hishand.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Yeah, he's to me.
He still acts like that, youknow what I mean.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Like he's oh, you get him out there chasing hogs.
He's turns into an animal.
That kid doesn't do anything.
You know half-ass, no.
So what'd you guys think ofJacklings?
You're both there, you have fun.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
I had fun.
I thought it was a great event,except for that rain on Sunday,
but it I dealt with it.
Um, but it's always fun to goto Florida out of here for the
winter and get down there in thesunshine, and it's a well-run
event.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
I mean, think how far Mike went to get to Jacklings,
like all the way across Caddycorner, the country.
Oh, yeah, man is how long wasthe flight, mike?
Speaker 4 (15:23):
about five and a half hours, like three and a half
more hours, and I'm in London.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
That's kind of what I was alluding to earlier.
You know I be.
I might live in Georgia now,but I'm definitely a West Coast
guy and I understand the grindthat it takes to compete at the
level that Mike is competing atyear after year for a long time
now.
Take such dedication.
I mean the.
There are great shooters outWest, I promise you.
(15:50):
I mean Myself and Mike andGavin.
We're all from out there.
There's other good shooters andit takes.
It's just there's so farbetween clubs.
There's so many states Do youhave to travel through to get to
any major shoots that it ittakes.
It takes a lot of effort.
I don't think some some point.
(16:12):
You know some parts of Texas orthe southeast or even some
northeast, they don't have totravel like that.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
It's, uh, the big shoots down here.
I was gonna say they're so cool.
I'm gonna say they're so closetogether, exact like the
Caribbean classic.
And then you got Jack links,and you got Gator Cup, you got
Seminole Cup.
I mean, mike, with, for youknow, six hours worth of driving
, you can be at all of thoseplaces.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, that's.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
That's crazy.
I mean you guys are lucky thatthere's so many majors down
there.
But I don't know, I've gottenused to the travel.
So I mean it's difficult, butI've done it for so long.
It's just for me, it's part ofthe job.
I mean I just do it and I'mprobably one of the One of the
people that travels the best inthe country because of that,
even when we go to Europe, I'mjust used to it.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
There's no question, mike, you, you are.
I was before we got on thiscall.
I was thinking to myself I'mlike I can't think of a better,
a better shooter that that has afull-time job away from the
shooting industry.
I think it'd be hard press tofind someone with a better
resume in sporting plays atleast in the modern sporting
(17:15):
plays that it doesn't work at agun club or teach full-time,
right.
So I think that's that shouldbe something you definitely Hang
your hat on, because I thinkthat's special.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Mike getting you.
You move to a Kreg off win twoyears ago 2020 was the first
year and you started out with aparkour, I think.
And now you're, aren't youshooting a high-rib again?
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Yeah, I'm back to the prosporter.
I mean, that's just the gun forme.
I Experimented with those otherones for a while, but for me,
the prosporters, the gun it'sjust suits my size and
everything better.
The other ones feel like kidsguns to me.
Do you think that had a?
Speaker 2 (18:01):
That played a part on your shooting is changing back
to the prosporter.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
Oh yeah, I mean my consistency has come back like
immediately.
So, yeah, all last year, alllast year nationals was great,
rolled into Jax Link, it's great.
So, yeah, all the consistenciesback and yeah, I attribute a
lot to going back to that gun.
Well, what's?
Speaker 2 (18:22):
that what you got to say about that.
He's just it awesome.
There's only a cut.
There's only a few in the wholecountry that shoot those guns.
Super well, you know.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
I mean Mike, mike, kevin, karen, kevin DeMichael
still shoots a high rib.
Bill's bills rib is not what Iwould describe as a true high
rib.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Very no bills ribs problem bills probably more like
a vantage blouse or even lessRight right, but it works for
them.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
I wouldn't, I wouldn't put my students in them
right away, but it definitelyworks for them.
So, mike, uh, I'm your on thelast.
I listen to that last podcast.
Like I said and Kayla was, shewas shooting a fair bit at that
time, but In the in the two,three years since, how she, how
she been doing.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Oh, she's been doing great.
I mean, last summer was kind ofa breakthrough, for especially
when we went over to Europe and,um, you know, she Kayla's a
different animal because shedoesn't feel pressure and she
just went into Europe.
You know, I'm confident and boy, look what she did.
(19:34):
She ended up on the podium atthe world championship and and
she's building on that Latte hergun broke at the world fee test
so we had to deal with thatlate in the season and then,
right before national, she got anew stock by Greenwood and I
think that's gonna be Major plusthis year having that custom
(19:54):
stock on the gun.
Finally, oh, no question.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
I tell people I mean the stocks more important than
the gun at times.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Right, right, and she's still in the bread.
A 400.
Um, I, with the new stock, isliterally no recoil in that
thing.
It's awesome.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
She's growing, she's, she's, she's growing a lot.
But I mean, even even at thisage, at that size, they still
want to keep her as comfortableas possible.
You know, learning those moves,learning those different shots,
without recoil being a thoughtin your mind In the long run,
huge.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
So you think we ought to stay with that?
Speaker 3 (20:33):
longer For the time being.
Yeah, I mean yeah we'll see.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
did you, did you think that?
I guess you probably did thinkthat cable would be shooting,
but did you think she would beshooting as well as she is?
I want to say as fast as she is?
Speaker 4 (20:49):
I would say, yeah, I did think she would be shooting
to that level.
I mean, I actually think thisyear you're gonna see more of a
leap out of her.
To say the truth, she's justgetting so much bigger and
stronger and and she knows whereto put the gun.
I mean, I've never seen anyoneLiterally be able to hang on to,
to quartering birds like I'venever seen anyone hang on to
(21:12):
birds like her and be able tojust crush them.
And she's gonna have a big year.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Nice.
She like basketball, or doesshe like?
Speaker 4 (21:21):
shooting best.
I would say she likes both.
But you know basketball iscompartmentalized because she's
the season's over, like thisweekend.
They just left for state today,so it's over after that and
then we can get you know.
Next week we go to Arizona forthe regional, so she hasn't
practiced a lot before thisregional, but she'll be fine and
(21:41):
you know this will be her startto the season and and we'll go
from there.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
I remember Zack you might have remembered this.
I know you remember this, youyou took a picture of Kayla when
she was I don't know how shewas.
She was young and posted onlineand said this is gonna be your
next National or world champion.
I don't remember.
I said yeah, future future.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
It's her doing an I dominance test, pointing at the
camera, and I Mean I've knownKayla since she was tiny I mean
tiny and we would do I dominancetest on her back then and she
just strong light, which is rare, super rare for any young lady
and she's just I don't know shegot it in her blood.
(22:22):
Man she was.
She's been around those shootssince before she could walk and
she just Understands the gameinnately in a way that she
doesn't even realize at timesit's pretty cool to watch.
She's not like Mike said, shedoesn't get nervous because
she's been around the some ofthe best players in the game her
(22:44):
whole life and None of it's toobig.
So she's gonna be exciting towatch for sure.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Speaking of, I guess, the lady shooters.
They're getting awful closeguys.
Yeah, they are.
I mean like they're gettingclose.
When do you think is that?
When do you think you'll see alady H?
Oh hey, the whole tournament.
Are we closer than we thenwe've ever been?
Probably, I guess we are.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
I mean we're closer than we've ever been.
It would still surprise me at abig 200 burger when it when you
know, when everyone's thereespecially.
But some of these mid majorshoots that could happen, who
knows, I think I think two yearsago Madison sharp hide for
(23:31):
third at a regional in Arizona.
I Don't think she won the shootoff so I don't think she stood
on the podium, but I believe shetied for third.
That's about the best to an, atleast in our country.
You know what our tour eventsthat's gotten to?
That's close.
I mean that's really close.
That's pretty close.
(23:51):
Yep, that's.
Coaching gets better as ourtournaments just get Better.
These girls are coming alongright along with everybody else.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Let's.
What are you talking about?
Tournaments?
I want to bring up something toboth of you and see what you
have to say about this.
I've I'm on the Score chaserpro program, but I don't use it.
I think I just get it.
So I get text messages when Istart, or something like that.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
I don't know what I'm doing with it but I think it's
a great idea.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
But are you, are you two guys, having a hard time
getting into tournaments Like Iam?
Because I don't sign up.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
When I sign up, you know two months before well, I'm
not, but I'm also using thatscore chaser pro and they sign
us up as the shoots open.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Yeah, I'm on the score chaser pro also, and
because of that I Always get in.
But and if I didn't have that,I'd have a problem because I'm
always late to do everything.
But yeah, they sign us up rightwhen the shoots come out, which
is double-edged sword, becausewe're paying deposits like a lot
of money in deposits Eight,nine months in advance now, yeah
(25:00):
, but all the, all the shootsfill up, you know, and be yeah
because of score chaser pro.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
All the events fill up early and Getting into events
later on in the process hasbecome an issue, which I think
is what you're describing.
Yeah, justin, but yeah, I thinkyou just need to fill out your
preference sheet and have themstart signing up to the shoot.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yeah, you want them to well, you know, it's like
they come out with Nationals isover and then now you can
register for Nationals next year.
I mean, I don't know if I cango next year.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
There's no sense I mean I don't.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
It's kind of like I told somebody today Well, I
don't want to sign up for stuff,not knowing that I Can't, that
I can make it.
You know, I don't know if I canmake it, so I'm just taking up
a spot If I can't make it, andthen it's.
You know, I'll cancel a week ortwo before I go because I know
I can't go, but Then somebodyelse can't go because they've
(25:56):
been.
You know what I mean.
It's like a.
It's like it's confusing to me.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Yeah, it's like Mike said.
It's a double-edged sword, forsure.
Yeah, I don't know what theanswer probably somewhere in the
middle, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
Yeah, I don't have the answer either, but it's
definitely a problem.
And you're right, justin, Idon't like when people sign up
and then they don't show up.
But yeah, I don't know anotherway to do it, because you have
to sign up early to get a spotat most of these, like Gator Cup
in a couple Weeks.
It's full so, but we all knowthere's gonna be cancellations
(26:30):
and people won't show up.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Yeah, that's what I tell Mike.
I say, if you're just standingin front of those girls on
Thursday or Friday, they'regonna get you in.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
I talked to Rick today I thought.
Rick today about that and hesaid just show up.
I said okay.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
So, yes, it's a little tougher to show up when
you're 4,000 miles away, though,without knowing You're gonna
get in you're either gonna shootthe Gator Cup or you're gonna
spend a weekend of speech.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
I mean, right away, you're probably right, right,
yeah, but it is an issue,there's no question it's.
It's interesting.
Everything, everything evolves.
I guess Casey's a smart girl.
I bet she's gonna figure it out, though.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
So, both of you being coaches, what do you think
about the new lessons thingsshe's come out with her?
Are you gonna utilize that ordoes it fit your?
Speaker 3 (27:18):
I had Talked to her about it a couple months ago.
I'm more than willing to To useit.
I haven't really had a chanceto look at what she's posted
here recently, but it should begood.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
Yeah, I haven't looked, but I talked to her
about it and I'm definitelygonna do it when I free up some
time for a rock mountain and andset up lessons there.
It's a lot easier with thatSystem to get everything booked
in and and planned outaccordingly.
So, yeah, I think I'll use it.
Yeah, rock Mountain, that Imean, anybody that Would have a
(27:54):
chance to go.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Number one take a lesson from Mike and Just get to
go to rock mountain and shootsporting clays.
I mean, you got it, you gottago.
Mike, you talked about rockmountain on the last podcast.
You did, but that's a specialplace, man, can you tell
everyone a little more about thehistory of rock mountain and
(28:16):
and what it actually is?
Yeah, so rock mountain.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
Originally the late Jeff Vanden Top Built this range
and it's it's reallymountainous and rocky and it's a
lot of rock and hilly andunlike any terrain, most people
in the USC, but Anyways, whenJeff passed away I had already
been a part owner of it.
But then, come to this day,there's 13 of us who own it.
(28:46):
It's on 75 acres, which isn'tgiant, but We've got, you know,
three towers.
Now We've got 32 stations,sporting course, probably 150
chromatic traps, all wireless.
I mean it's we call it trainingground of champions.
I mean it really is an amazingfacility and Justin.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
I don't think you realize.
It's like shooting in anational park.
There are there are bouldersthe size of houses that Jeff and
these guys moved around likeStrategically around this
mountain.
I mean it is incredible.
And about half the stationshave themes to them.
So there's literally a duck pitwhere you're right at the edge
(29:33):
of the water and it's likeyou're in an old school duck
line.
There's a saloon.
You walk into a saloon, youwalk into a jail.
There's jail where you'reshooting out the bars in the
back.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
Is it chapel?
There's a Chapel.
We've got the world recordfishing pole with a bobber in
the pond.
Oh yeah, yeah, it's pretty cool, I mean it.
And the training, like I said,is that like for me, training
there for Europe last year.
It made Europe seem easy to meand I'm not kidding when I say
(30:06):
that.
So if you, if anyone gets achance, I'm gonna hold two
shoots there this summer, april27th and June 22nd full 200 bird
registered events with Trophiesand all which are kind of cool.
They're they're actually rockswith our, our logo on them.
And, yeah, we can get a rock,not rock.
(30:27):
That's awesome, it's about anhour if you were at the airport
in Seattle.
It's an hour and a half north.
And then Future.
Maybe in the next year or twoWe'll have a state shoot there
or something else.
So hopefully we can get some ofthe pros across the country to
come out here and check it out.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
It's awesome.
They used to hold a big shoot,the Western open.
That ran for probably close toa decade.
That a lot of top shooters, infact.
One year it was a.
It was a qualifier for Team USA.
Was it a zone or was it a?
Wasn't a?
Speaker 4 (30:59):
regional it.
It wasn't, but somehow theymade it a qualifier and remember
we, we actually Resquattedbased on top to bottom scores.
I've literally got a picture ona rock of me, zach Wendell,
john Krueger, brad kid andSomeone else.
(31:19):
I mean we, we all shot a big, amajor there.
Yeah, oh yeah, I remember soit's.
We'd like to bring that back.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
I love shooting in the north.
Any Any northern state just hastopography, it has terrain,
it's not humid, good, goodseafood.
Oh my god, tell them, those arejust some incredible shoots up
there.
I I Wish you get it going andI'd love to come back.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
How does it work with that many owners?
Mike, y'all agree on everything, or how does I mean?
You have me.
How does that work with themany owners?
Speaker 4 (31:53):
No, we have a couple meetings a year.
I mean, we're all on the samepage.
It works fine.
We pay dues, you know, and thenthese shoots bring in money.
So One of my my good buddypartners is John Thorpe and he's
really into, I mean, makingthis place top notch.
So we're, we're really thisyear is gonna be big.
(32:13):
We're buying a lot of new stuff, we're getting new gravel on
the whole course and thisconstant improvement.
So, yeah, it works great with13 guys.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Your buddy from up there.
What's his name?
Oh, cowboy hat.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
Trevor yeah, trevor.
Trevor's actually an owner too,yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
I'm just ever is a.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
Trevor's a good trap mechanic.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Is he?
Speaker 4 (32:33):
Yeah, he actually is.
That guy is awesome.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
I'm telling you he was.
He is so funny to me I.
Speaker 4 (32:40):
Don't know.
Yeah, he has a good time.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Yeah, last week at Jack, like that, I was telling
Johnny and Mike I'm like let'sgo, I want to take, I want to
take Trevor Ducconning next year.
And they're like okay, okay.
And then they both, both oftheir faces changed and they're
like Are you sure I?
Speaker 4 (33:01):
Don't know, I don't know Zach had handled Trevor in
the duck blind.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
I can handle it.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
I think it'd be fun the first time we went out to
eat with him, that Kayla wassitting next to him and it's
like she just knew how to takehim.
And I've never met Trevor andoh you know he was saying things
like wow this guy right here.
Kayla just laughed at him likeit wasn't what, nothing to it,
and I just I didn't know how totake him.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (33:26):
Like it's yeah, yeah, yeah you, you were probably
shocked, but yeah, once, onceyou know him and his story, and
yeah, you, just you manage.
I mean I shot the wholejackslink with him.
So trust me, I know that weshot.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
I think we were at cross-creaker.
We were somewhere Shooting withTrevor and he walks up.
He comes walking down thecourse With his bag on his
shoulder in flip-flops.
I cut off Western shirt and acowboy hat.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
I guarantee a lot of listeners.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
They're thinking I don't.
Who are they talking about?
It's the guy from out west thatshoots without a shirt on half
the time.
Speaker 4 (34:07):
Yeah you have all.
Yeah.
The big trucker tattoo on hisback, yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
These damn West coasters yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Yeah, if you get.
If you get a chance to shootwith Trevor slice names human
right.
Yes, yeah, if you get a chanceto shoot with him, he's he's
never in a bad mood.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
I had never seen him in a no no he's a who.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
now that you're in vet class, what are your goals?
Any new goals?
Speaker 4 (34:37):
Well, yeah, there's some new goals.
I mean, I always have, like wetalked about earlier, always
have my open goals, but as faras vet goes, I'd like to win a
world championship and anational championship and Keep
making captain of the the teamsfor a Long time from now.
(34:58):
So I I think I'm poised to dothat.
That's awesome.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
Yeah, I think you got you as the, as one of the top
vets.
Now I think you need toEncourage some of the other
better vets to make the team andaccept these positions to go
overseas.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
Yeah, and that kid next year.
We got to talk about thatbecause you know going we're be
going to Europe next not thisyear, but go next year and we
need to talk about a couple ofthe gut top guys.
We need to get on that team andand go win over there.
So you're exactly right.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
I think you have the right shooters.
We just need to have them allthere.
That's correct, you know that'shalf the problem.
Yeah, both you being in theUnited States this year will
have a great field of vets, butit's not always the case.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Is it the travel that ?
Speaker 1 (35:54):
you're.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
Yeah, why do you suppose they don't go?
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Zach, it's the travel , it's just.
I Mean we've all seen somepeople love that travel and some
people Don't handle it as well.
It's everything's different,everything's new and Some
personalities just don't don'ttake to that.
But they've all done it beforethey can handle it.
(36:18):
They can, they can go see well.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
I mean, I love it, I'd go, I'd go every year if we
could.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
so we try to right.
Speaker 4 (36:26):
Yeah, I mean I, some of those ranges you and I went
to last summer were were a blastand I think that was key, that
we did get there early and wedid those competitions.
I really think it helped us.
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
Hungry was pretty incredible, but just the terrain
, the cliffs, everything.
Like Mike said he's he's from anorthern state with terrain he
was really at home, and some ofthat if you're from Flatland of
Houston or Florida is verydifferent, very different.
What are, what are, some of thefavorite places you've gotten
the chance to travel to andshoot?
Speaker 4 (37:05):
Well, I mean always England is EJ Churchill's a top
one.
As far as out of the country, Iliked it when we went and
trained at Owls Lodge, eventhough it was small, but we had
a great time.
Barbary we went to this year.
That was a great shoot.
Yeah, sporting targets, it's asmall little range over in
(37:28):
England and, and Zach and I wentthere and shot the power
challenge.
That was a great time.
That was incredible.
Zach shot it amazing, by theway, but uh, yeah, that was a
great day.
I can't remember what was thename of the one.
We went to it.
Well, love its place.
That was a good shoot.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
That super, oh yeah, um, I know what you're talking
about in the Cotswolds, yeah, sothey're not thinking is a name.
Yeah, england, good, england'slike a ride of passage is what
I've always told my students.
You go, not just aboutChurchill or wherever you're
shooting it's, it's everywhereelse You're gonna visit and cut
(38:07):
your teeth on target You'venever seen, and just that's
awesome.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
Yeah, it goes.
It goes beyond that.
I mean driving just to getthere.
I mean the On the wrong side ofthe road there's a lot, but I
mean, every time I come backfrom Europe I feel like a better
shooter.
No question, no question.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
What are your other other?
I thought England, what other?
What other streets have youliked?
I mean, America.
Speaker 4 (38:30):
I mean, obviously I like rock mountain here, but as
far as major clubs, I likeEminem, backwoods, meadows.
I haven't, I haven't gone tofourth city yet, so this year
will be my first time there.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Oh nice, oh you've never been looking forward to
that I have not, no.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
Wow, he's never.
I've lived here for four yearshe's never come to visit.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
I guess you're gonna have a house guest during the
regional then, right?
Speaker 4 (39:00):
It seems like nobody has room there, so I'm probably
gonna be stuck in a hotel atthat one.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Well, I'll send you the hotel I stayed in last time
was super nice, and I'll sendyou the link to that.
Okay, I got a room yet, yeah,four cities, a big place, it's
um.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
I told people Just recently it's gonna be one of
the shoots that you that'smemorable because of the
shooting but also because theafter-hour stuff is gonna be.
You know, everyone's notstaying an hour every direction.
Everyone's gonna be reallyclose by.
There's tons of excellentrestaurants.
(39:36):
It's just gonna be a shoot thata lot of people circle after
the years over and they reallyenjoyed, you know so, even jack
links or even backwards some ofthese other shoots.
You're you're in the car for 45minutes each way to get to the
event.
You're gonna be five to ten,fifteen minutes from Forest City
(39:57):
and and Great places to visitin between.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
So yeah, that'll be one of the more fun shoots, I
promise.
Yeah, these 45 minute drivesget old.
I mean, you're so tired by thetime you leave the club you
barely want to go out to dinnerbecause you just in the car so
long.
Right?
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Right, well, that'll be great.
What place am I gonna eat atthat when I go there?
Speaker 3 (40:23):
Well, right by the club there's excellent barbecue.
There's a pretty good Mexicanrestaurant for Georgia.
Being a West Coast guy, I'm alittle picky on my Mexican food.
It's pretty good.
There's an excellent New Yorkdeli.
They as good a deli as I'veever seen Right there by the gun
(40:44):
club, all within five minutesof the gun club.
Um, some different other stufftoo there's.
There's some great spots.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
That's funny, I you know.
I thought when you said, beinga West Coast guy, I'm really
picky about my Mexican food.
Is that because your roots goback to Mexico?
Speaker 3 (41:08):
No, because the Mexican food on the West Coast
is flat out better, michael backme up, he's right.
Speaker 4 (41:16):
He's right, justin.
It's more authentic.
You know it's not Tex-Mex orwhatever.
So he's right, it is better,for sure.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
We went.
We went to the same Mexicanrestaurant three days in a row
for lunch.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
yeah, couple of our guys didn't want to go where we
going for lunch, I were going toMexican again.
Yes, and it was good.
It was authentic and good, yes,yes.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
I dominant gross when he landed on I.
When we picked him up at theairport, he's.
He said I don't know where, howhe came out.
But he said oh well, you're theonly Mexican in Washington.
I'm like, are you crazy?
Eastern Washington is allMexican.
Speaker 4 (42:01):
He was not the only one.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
I found a authentic Mexican restaurant here where I
live about a month ago and it'slike down an alleyway behind a
school next to a gas station.
I mean it's it's.
I said, what is this place?
I walk in and they've gotnothing.
It's like a grocery store forMexican food.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
Oh, probably like a yeah meat market or something.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Yeah, a meat market, I can talk right in there.
Speaker 3 (42:36):
Yep, yep.
You should buy some of thatstuff, I guarantee it's good.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Well, I ate some of it.
I'm like, I just don't like.
I guess it's because I'm usedto eating Tex-Mex, you know what
.
I mean it's like it's totallydifferent to eat real, authentic
Mexican food versus just.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
Oh yeah, my advice for anybody being a, you know, a
larger stature, you know I eata lot and I am a quarter Mexican
.
My advice for anybody walkinginto a Mexican restaurant is,
when you walk in, if there arenot Mexicans eating, turn around
.
No, that's not good.
(43:12):
That's exactly.
If the Mexicans eat there, eatthere.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
That is correct.
And if they, if they don'tunderstand what you're saying
when you go in, it's probablygood too, it's probably good.
Yes, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
I Can sport eating our way across.
Speaker 4 (43:31):
Hey, Justin, are we gonna give any shout outs to to
sponsors or what ammo we shootor anything?
Yeah, go for it.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
You know that's my question.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
Do not edit this.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Yeah, go for it.
Well, if can you ask me thequestion, all right, the
question is, mike, you haveanybody you'd like to shout out,
like any sponsors or well, youknow Kree got for my gun.
Speaker 4 (43:57):
I'm shooting a pro sport or 32 inch or and you know
the big one is WinchesterProbably the hardest hitting
ammo made.
And I'm shooting the 1250 superhandicap ounce and an eighths
for sporting and 1291 ouncelight handicaps for fee tasks.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
I was talking to a guy tonight on the way home that
mentioned you, dennis, withclay target vision.
You and Zach are both on his,his protein, and it seems like
every time I talk, soon one ofyour names probably desi more
than both of you, but but butone of your names are always
(44:36):
coming up.
Yeah, I really appreciate Mikeand I appreciate Zach, and you
know, so I know he supports bothof y'all and anybody listening.
If you're looking for a set ofpillows, that's the guy to go to
for sure.
Speaker 4 (44:48):
He takes good care of us.
And I'll tell you one thing Iknow Zach Doesn't wear them, but
I've been wearing that newprogressive Dragon fruit and
it's the new technologyprogressive.
So you literally can't visuallysee that line.
Mm-hmm, I am, I'm amazed bythat lens.
I wore that lens the wholeweekend in Florida.
I'm just amazed by that lensDragon fruit, progressive.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
I don't have that one .
I think I got that love it.
Speaker 4 (45:17):
I also have a 47 C I HC that I love to and it's not
progressive.
But those are my two go-tolenses and I would say they're
Kayla's too.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
What color?
Speaker 4 (45:28):
eyes.
Do you have, mike Hazel?
Another one is there's a 72.
It's orange.
You should look in andliterally in Washington, where
it in all low light conditionsand I've even worn it at night
shooting and it's amazing.
I mean you could get with thosethree lenses.
I said you could get by withalmost every lighting condition.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
I've got it right here, I'll just gotta find it.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
Justin has every pillow lens known to man.
I know two people that haveevery pillow lens.
It's Justin Barker and StormyWeatherford.
Really, yes, they pride myselfon their lens collections.
Speaker 4 (46:06):
Yeah, I find myself just wearing a few different
ones.
I mean, I I'm not a lenschanger, I kind of just pick and
go with it 72 CIM X.
That is awesome, that's.
I literally wear that every dayin Washington.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Yeah, that's a.
That's a new one.
They actually just come out anew one, yeah.
Speaker 4 (46:26):
Yeah, it's, it's a game changer for low light.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Zack, there might be something you need to look into.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
I need to look into that I'm not good at low light.
Zack likes darker lenses.
I need light, I need sunlight.
I mean, there's no doubt I gota really good score in the rain
the other day.
It was dark, but most of myreally good shooting is when
it's bright.
Yeah, you get you a good score.
(46:52):
As I get old, as I get older, Irealize that.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
What's your lenses?
What do you shoot?
My Mike called out his three.
What's your three?
Speaker 3 (47:01):
I shoot a ton of of 18 ced.
Yeah, kind of the old staplethere's.
I know a lot of good shootersthat still just use that one
when it starts.
If it's green out like Floridais, I'm, like the southeast is,
and it starts getting overcastor rainy, I kind of go to those
(47:24):
cin, the purple, purple tint 19s.
Um, those, those help me.
Obviously I'm dark eyed.
I have really really dark,brown eyes and To me those ed,
those brown, amber tints and andpurples have always worked very
well for me.
Um, like I said, I havestruggled with low light, you
know, and it's really gettingclose to dusk, and Dennis has
(47:49):
been helping me out with somedifferent, just looking for more
contrast in that gray light.
I'm trying to get there.
Um, like I said, some of mybest shootings when it's when
it's brighter out, for sure,yeah, that's interesting,
because I don't like purplewhatsoever.
Speaker 4 (48:06):
You think it's an eye color thing.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
I yeah, it has to do with eye color?
Speaker 2 (48:10):
I'm sure it does, for sure, mike, that's all I shoot
in, honestly.
I mean, I'm not to where youall are, but all I shoot in is
our 19 CINs.
I don't care if it's 11 o'clockat night or if it's eight
o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 3 (48:26):
Most of the time, Ryan Harper, I think shoots in
that lens quite a bit yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (48:33):
Um, yeah, I'm just, I'm a lighter lens guy, I don't.
I don't shoot those really darklenses, yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
You're going back to stormy.
You said stormy has a bunch oflenses.
I saw him down at Jack linksand he said he's wearing the new
raptors from Pila and I saidyeah, we were talking about him.
He says I got every single lensthey make he's.
I got them all.
I bought 20 when I was at thegrand.
I said what Okay?
Speaker 4 (49:02):
Here you go.
That's expensive yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (49:07):
I think he has every.
He has every Beretta, he hasevery Pila lens.
Yeah, I know for a fact he hasa set of every kind of choke
tube, every company's choketubes he's got.
He's just a collector.
Speaker 4 (49:21):
He's into it.
Yeah, zach, let's talk about uhyour thoughts on that.
Uh, diamond trap Cause I knowyou were shooting some at uh
Jack's link.
Speaker 3 (49:33):
Yeah, that diamond trap, the uh, I've kind of
gravitated towards the.
The diamond trap is differentthan the original diamond grade.
The original diamond gradescopper plated.
Um, the diamond trap is 8%anammoni.
Non plated.
Yep, Um, and I think I just getmore of that smoke.
You break them with that, withthe copper, similar to some of
(49:57):
the European loads that arecoated.
They have some differentcoatings on them.
Um, I don't get that dark smokebreak that.
I do with dark lead, with acoated lead, if that makes any
sense.
Speaker 4 (50:12):
Yeah, so you like, you actually like the trap, the
non plated better Non plated 8%anammoni diamond trap is
incredible.
Speaker 3 (50:21):
I'll shoot that at any anything long on edge.
Uh, rabbits, stuff like that.
We had several birds, um, atJack links that I shot them on.
I don't feel like need them foreverything.
You know, if there's some, ifthat birds within 40, uh, you
can't tell me there's a bettershell than a super handicap.
Um, right, but when it get,when I need that pattern to be a
(50:45):
little tighter, if I want makesure I've got multiple pellet
strikes on something that's outthere a ways that, uh, that
diamond grade shines for sure.
Speaker 4 (50:55):
That's.
That's kind of how I feel.
I always like to have few withme.
Speaker 3 (50:59):
I've got I think I finally talked them into I think
they're going to load it laterthis year is a one ounce, 12,
nine feet diamond trap.
Oh, that's great For the feettest shooters.
Speaker 2 (51:11):
Well, I think that's probably it.
I appreciate both of you comingon.
Zach, your idea to have Mike onagain, and I think it was.
You know, I kind of like thesepodcasts where it's just a
conversation, you know, there'sno, there's no outlines, there's
no, there's, you know, there'sno real planning, it's just,
it's just off the cuff.
And I, you know, I kind of feellike that's the way this is and
(51:31):
I enjoyed listening to the, youknow, to the stories and what
have you.
So I appreciate both of youcoming on and taking some time.
Oh, no problem, we'll do itagain, thanks for having us.
Yeah, zach, I mean you're goingto.
You might wear out your welcome.
I mean, you know, every time Isay this on a bunch of podcasts
(51:52):
and I know you listen and I knowyou hear it, you know, every
time somebody comes on they talkabout Zach and what Zach's done
.
Speaker 3 (51:59):
They don't talk about .
They might mention me.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
Yeah Well, I mean.
And then you come on, I meanthat's even work, like, I mean
that's good, but that's evenworse at the same time.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (52:08):
Well, I guess, if we start, if you start getting a
bunch of complaints and comments, and we'll know no, we ain't
going to have none of that.
Speaker 1 (52:16):
Everybody loves Zach.
Speaker 2 (52:17):
He's always been so nice.
He's never like mad or he'salways nice.
No, he doesn't pick on him,he's a good guy.
If you pick on it, then hechanges.
Speaker 4 (52:30):
He's got.
He's got gets his feelings hurteasy.
You got to be careful he does.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
All right, guys.
Thank you for coming on, andI'll see you somewhere here
shortly.
Speaker 4 (52:43):
I don't know what's on the wall.
All right, thanks, justin.
Speaker 2 (52:45):
All right guys.
Thanks, Justin, See you Talk toyou later.
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