April 1, 2025 • 39 mins
DeAnn and Craig (Sober Positive Workplace) discuss the intersection of substance use disorder and suicide prevention, highlighting the work of the Livin Foundation. PT, a media personality and founder, shares his personal loss to suicide and the foundation's mission to remember loved ones for how they lived. Kaitlin, a co-founder, emphasizes the importance of peer-to-peer support and the Livin Foundation's new program to facilitate workplace mental health support. They introduce the AI-powered mental health platform Livin Connected and discuss the impact of open conversations on reducing suicide rates by 79%. The foundation also offers free virtual suicide prevention training and financial support for those affected by suicide.
Info & Donate: www.livinfoundation.org
Find HOPE at: https://livinconnected.org
LIVIN Foundation Story/Overview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrIWBJZVYnk&t=6s
If you have questions or comments or would like to be a guest on the Recovery Discovery Podcast, send an email to:
deann@showupandstay.org
More information about our project is available at:
https://www.showupandstay.org/
https://www.soberpositiveworkplace.org/
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Music and Audio Production by Katie Hare.
https://www.hare.works
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
DeAnn Knighton (00:01):
Hey, Craig, hey, DeAnn, hey, I wanted to have you
help me set up this episodetoday, sure, and I wanted to
have you walk us through how youmet these individuals and why it
made sense for us to have thisconversation today.
Unknown (00:16):
I met them really as part of my retirement recovery
process. I retired at the end ofthe year, and I was looking for
new things to do and focus on,especially with organizations
that were mission based andseemed to be doing important
work in the health and healthcare business. And a friend of
(00:40):
mine from prior work that I'ddone, recommended that I meet
this group called live in andthe co founders are people who
both lost their fathers tosuicide, and of course, with
mental health and suicideawareness and prevention and and
(01:05):
substance use disorder, all sortof tied so intricately close
together, like one of the Mostmost powerful connections is
between substance use and andsuicide itself, right that
people who are struggling withsubstances are often also
(01:28):
ideating about suicide or goingthrough a lot of emotional
depression and and need thatkind of help too. So I decided
to to reach out and join theteam and meet them at an off
site that they were having. Andwhat really surprised me was
they also had this veryfascinating technology angle to
(01:50):
their work, that they wereapplying some of these new
artificial intelligence tools asa way of helping people learn
about and understand suicideprevention, and that they had
brought this to life in thisproduct that they were now
taking to market. So that's howI met them, and I was so
(02:14):
impressed by how this small, butyou know, spunky team had put
together this very interestingtechnology that I decided to get
more involved.
DeAnn Knighton (02:29):
This is DeAnn, and you are listening to the
sober, positive workplace seriesbrought to you by show up and
stay. Hi all. Welcome back tothe podcast. We've been focused
here the last several months onthe importance of advocacy in
the workplace for thoserecovering from substance use
(02:50):
disorder, and today'sconversation is a great
opportunity to broaden thatdiscussion. It should be no
surprise to hear that there's agreat deal of overlap in
substance use disorder andsuicide rates, and that suicide
prevention and substance useprevention go hand in hand in
the workplace and beyond. Today,I'm speaking with PT and Caitlin
(03:10):
of live in foundation. PT ismedia personality and founder of
the Minnesota based mentalhealth nonprofit Living
Foundation. Caitlin co foundsthis new revolutionary mental
health support platform calledlive in connected, powered by
hope, and also an advisory boardmember for the live in
foundation. So let's actuallystart with you. PT, I want to
(03:34):
have everyone get to know you alittle more. So I saved some of
the details about your story andbackground because I thought it
would be so much better to haveit come from you. So can you
tell us what got you connectedto this work and what drives
your passion? Yeah,
Unknown (03:47):
thanks. Thanks for the opportunity. I think you know my
story is, I think a lot likeother folks, when it comes to a
particular cause, I have apersonal connection to it. I
lost my father to suicide in2013 and although, you know, he
didn't necessarily struggle withsubstance use disorder, I think
(04:10):
in a lot of ways, there are somany connections to, like mental
health, mental illness, and justlike other components, you know,
we talk often that, you know,mental wellness is, is like a
it's like a spoke on a wheel,right? There are so many
components to it, and it's alittle bit more more difficult
(04:30):
to, you know, determine, like,you know, different, difficult
to understand, compared tophysical wellness, right? So
after losing my dad about 12years ago, I was kind of in a
tough spot myself, I think,mentally and just trying to
figure out where to go with it.
But I knew that I wanted toremember my dad for how he lived
rather than how he died. And Ithink in doing that, I started,
(04:54):
I started the Living Foundationwith just this idea of like
we're. Remembering him for howhe lived, rather than how he
died. Because I think a lot oftimes in in a loss by suicide,
you know, I think the legacy ofthat person, like, becomes a
little bit too much about howthey died. And so, like, I was
thought about changing that, andhonestly, it just started by me,
(05:15):
you know, kind of talking aboutthat, and sharing my story. And
I think it just resonated with alot of people because they were
in a similar spot with, youknow, either their loss by
suicide or just like, theirstruggles themselves, like, or
somebody in their family withwith mental health and mental
illness and whatnot and and, youknow, maybe just realizing that
(05:35):
through living and through thislike hashtag, live in we almost
became, you know, a talkingpoint, maybe, dare I say, a
platform or an excuse forsomebody to have a conversation
about this, this, you know,relatively difficult topic, and
and it just kind of took offfrom there. So it started
really, very organically, justwith, again, kind of me trying
(05:59):
to tell my story a little bitand remember my dad, and now
it's turned into something thathopefully is, is giving a lot of
people, you know, an opportunityto make connections with others,
and hopefully an opportunity totell their story and and find a
level of of, you know, hope andhealing, maybe through it and
through that community and so onso forth. But I'll be honest, I
I never would have dreamt, youknow, of course, losing my dad.
(06:22):
I mean, never expected that, butthen never expected where we're
at right now with thefoundation, but, you know,
obviously, at the same time,very proud of it.
DeAnn Knighton (06:32):
Oh yeah, that's wonderful. Thank you so much for
sharing. And I, you know,there's so much that overlaps
that we're going to talk about alittle bit here. But I think one
of the things that is reallyimportant is it just in the
language and the way that wetalk about these issues and that
we do talk about them. Yeah,
Unknown (06:48):
I mean, on that note, I mean, to be honest, we're, like,
we're very deliberate, like,when I say, like, a loss by
suicide, or died by suicide, Ithink a lot of people, I think
that, you know, they say commitsuicide. Because I think back in
the day, it was really moreconsidered, I think, like,
religiously, a sin in somecapacity. So it's like, but, you
know, we often will refer to thefact that you don't, you know,
(07:10):
you don't commit cancer, and sopeople don't have this negative
stigma associated with it. Andyou know, my partner, Caitlin
here, you know we were talkingabout how I think a similar
scenario and stigma and justwording with like substance use
right and substance usedisorder, versus saying like
substance abuse, you know, Ithink that's, it's a dynamic
(07:32):
that the wordings, you know,continues to perpetuate stigma,
right and stigma is where Ithink we get into a lot of
struggles with a lot of thesethings, you know. And it's not
just substance use disorder,it's not just mental illness,
but just like anytime you have astigma associated with something
because of, you know, maybewording that needs to be
updated, that's, you know,that's what you're going
DeAnn Knighton (07:54):
to get. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. Well, Caitlin,
let's learn a little bit aboutyou.
Unknown (07:58):
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having us and to
these point that was aneducator. Me to remove substance
abuse from my vocabulary andfocus on substance use, so that,
you know, again, my goal everyday is to learn something new.
And so now I'm, I feel like I'mmore educated on the topic as
well, and I very much appreciatethat. So I'm Caitlin Vegas, and
(08:21):
I have been with the live infoundation for a little over
seven years. So the live infoundation just this month
actually turned 10 years old. Sowe're just really grateful for
the momentum. I'm part of theunfortunate club that a lot of
Americans are in after losing myfather to suicide as well.
Unfortunately, when I was 12,and I spent the majority of my
(08:45):
life in denial, you know, Ididn't want to talk about it. I
didn't really want to deal withit head on. And that went on for
almost 20 years. And speaking ofsubstance use, for me,
specifically, being verytransparent, because I wasn't,
you know, willing or able totackle it head on. It did start
(09:06):
creeping out in my personal lifeas well, in certain ways, with
substance use and excessivepartying. And I started
realizing that I needed to dealwith this more head on. And then
I I actually came across thelive and Foundation, which has
been a huge part of my healingjourney. And quite honestly, you
know when, when PT talks abouthow he founded the organization,
(09:28):
I think, like he said, hedidn't, he didn't know where
this would lead. But for me,personally, talking about my
journey, I'm a perfect casestudy of what he started and
then how I was attracted to theLiving Foundation and how, quite
literally, it's helped me, buthow it's put me personally on a
better trajectory of healing andhope in my personal life. And
(09:51):
so, you know, I would say, sevenyears ago, I started, kind of
out of nowhere, really startingto say, Okay, I want to be more.
Healthy holistically. And I hada mutual friend of myself and
Paul's that said you shouldconnect live foundation. So I
went to one of his speakingengagements, and I heard him
speak, and you know, it's one ofthose out of body experiences in
(10:14):
your life. You go, I just needto know more about him and his
story. And I was very drawn tothe positivity of the messaging
around the live in foundation.
And for me personally, I found acommunity to be a part of, and
for the first time, startedfocusing on how my dad lived
when he was here, as Paul said,versus how he died. And for me,
(10:35):
that change changed narrative.
And like I had mentionedearlier, therapeutic for me. So
just something simple aschanging that narrative for me,
it started to provide hope forme, and I started on a platform
to share my story, and I startedrealizing how therapeutic that
(10:57):
was for myself. And so I startedout just volunteering with the
organization, working with PT,and seven years later, here we
are.
DeAnn Knighton (11:07):
Oh, that's beautiful. Thanks so much for
sharing that. And we often findthat those who sometimes
struggle with addiction, it istypically a symptom of something
else, and oftentimes a lot ofunresolved things from in the
past, kind of like you'retalking about right, where some
of those things that we don'tface can creep up in different
ways and show up in differentways for people, the stigma part
(11:28):
of this we've talked on a littlebit, but I think it would be so
lovely. PT, maybe if you have astory or an experience that you
can share from the work thatyou've been doing, where you've
seen the power of someone beingable to talk about something
that they hadn't before or in adifferent way and and heal
through that. I mean,
Unknown (11:47):
one of the first interactions with live in as it
pertains to that community thatCaitlin mentioned is really the,
probably my aha moment that Irefer to sometimes I was doing
radio in the in the Twin Cities,and I started talking about my
(12:07):
loss of my dad, like publicly onthe air, okay, which was a very,
very difficult thing to do,obviously, and but I, for
whatever reason, I felt like itwas necessary to start getting,
you know, getting it off mychest, or just sharing it, or
making it more of a component ofmy healing journey. Okay, and so
(12:32):
in doing that like it didbecome, I mean, honestly, it was
difficult, obviously, at first,but it did become a part of my
healing journey, and where,really, where, like I said, the
aha moment came is I was at anevent with our radio station,
and a gentleman came up to me,probably, you know, might have
been in his late 50s, early 60s,and he came up to me and he
(12:56):
asked me, who at the radiostation, like which one of the
DJs talked About a loss, by bysuicide and stuff like that. I
said, Well, it happens to be me,you know, I lost my father. And
he said, You know, I just wantto thank you, because every time
you do that, it gives me somestrength and some courage and
some hope that I I'm not alonein my journey. And it turns out
(13:16):
that he had lost his nieceearlier that year, okay, and he
had been struggling, you know,with with the questions
surrounding a loss by suicide,right? And like, whether it's
the feeling of guilt or thefeeling of sadness or
frustration or anger orwhatever. Like, we all go
through various stages andemotions and stuff and but here,
(13:38):
you know, here you hear thisperfect stranger, and I'm
hugging them, right? So nowwe're hugging, and I happen to
be having a living shirt onwhich, even to this day, is
like, kind of whatever. He'slike, I, you know, I want one of
those shirts. Like, I want to. Iwant to. I want to be part of
the movement. I want to be partof the story, like I want to be,
you know, unfortunately, again,we're like, Caitlin mentioned,
we don't want to be part of theclub, but we want to be part of
(14:00):
the change, maybe, and so, youknow, and he's like, Hey, he's
like, thank you. And we so wejust had this moment, and I
think it was at that time, if Ihadn't realized it already,
like, that was where now Irealized that, like, maybe we
were kind of on to something,right? I'm not going to wear a
shirt that says I lost my dad tosuicide, but I very proudly wear
(14:21):
my living swag, okay? Or I'mwearing my living wristband. It
reminds me, like, what, youknow, why I'm here, what I'm
doing, how I'm living today. Andnow this other gentleman, same,
same boat. He's not going to,you know, wear a big sign over
his head that says, I lost myniece to suicide, right? But
he's proudly a part of theLiving Movement. And so when
people then ask the question,hey, what's living all about? Or
(14:42):
tell me what that is. Or whenpeople do know, it's like, Hey,
I know that you're a part ofsomething. Again, it's almost
like, it's like the pink ofbreast cancer, sort of, right.
There's nothing positive aboutbreast cancer, per se, other
than beating it right and likebeing a breast cancer survivor,
but like, through the color pinkand through a. Events and just
whatever, there's this communitythat is created whereby there is
(15:04):
a sense of belonging, dare Isay, right? And I I think that
hopefully, through some of thethings that we've done with
living and, frankly, a lot ofother organizations like we are
by no means, you know, alone inthis, in this, in this space,
but I think through that, wefind connections. So that would
be like, the story that alwaysresonates to me, and I think
always is like, you know, kindof one of the initial stories is
(15:27):
just like, wow, here's twostrangers now connected over
something that we would nevernormally know at all. And, and I
can't tell you how many nowsubsequent conversations that
we've had with people that youknow are are moved to become
part of the movement because ofa connection that they have in
their lives in some capacity.
DeAnn Knighton (15:47):
Yeah, I love that, and I think it really
plays well into the conversationabout bringing this message to
maybe some of the spaces wherewe have typically avoided this
for so many reasons and tried tokeep it kind of separate from
personal but I think this issuch a great way to consider how
to integrate that. And Caitlin,I know that you've done some
work around bringing this workinto different spaces, and what
(16:11):
that could look like to open upconversations where they
normally haven't happened.
Unknown (16:15):
Yeah, I think before I even get into that, I would say
the general crux of everythingthat the live in. Foundation
stands for all of ourprogrammatic, you know, arts,
and even this next program I'mgoing to talk about is really
peer to peer support. I wouldsay that's the general theme,
kind of across our organization.
And what's a little bit moreunique. And although the
(16:36):
organization started with PT inhis vision and losing his father
and now myself, we like to sayall the time that it's not our
story, it's your story, youknow, and everyone's story is
different. Everybody has oneright and through avenues, via
peer to peer support, hownatural it can be in
(16:57):
organizations, in the workplace,really, across our communities,
to start those conversations andmake it okay for people to talk
about right at their at theirlevel, whenever they're
comfortable, right, whateverthat might be, because it's
different for all of us. Andthat's a good segue into some of
our other programming. We justdeveloped a new program offering
(17:18):
called mind well balance fivewhich will be offered in the
workplace, which really, we'rejust saying that it's five
actions to fostering mentalhealth within the organization.
And what, what makes it uniqueis really that human element.
And in taking that out, andwe're seeing a huge appetite
(17:40):
within these workplace andorganizations wanting and
needing assistance when it comesto crisis and general suicide
intervention methods and usingtraining, education and really
just Helping with cultivatingthe culture within the
organization. There's a lot oforganizations that are asking
(18:03):
and needing help with that. Sowe've got lots of resources out
there, not just us, but as acommunity and as a society.
There's a lot of technology andresources, but some of the
missing link to the connectionthere is the human element. And
so organizations are saying, Iknow this is a problem, and
we've identified that it is. I'mnot really sure what to do next,
(18:25):
right? So live in foundation iscoming in, and we're saying,
Hey, we can break this down intofive simple methods in which
we'll come on and walk alongsideyou in the journey, and we'll
start very naturally with thatpeer to peer support, whether
it's training and education withthe leadership team and the
organization as a whole,inspirational speaking
(18:45):
engagement, just slow, slowconversation starters, and on
people's terms they can startthose conversations. And just
how naturally people open up tothat. And so that's been really,
really awesome to see. And then,you know, by way of the human
interaction, moving to thetechnology component, which we
(19:05):
founded a mental health platformcalled Living connected, which
is powered by way of an AI chatbot named Hope. So really, the
crux of it is the we know can'tbe replaced by technology, but
it's really the idea of, take myhand and come with me, and I
(19:26):
will guide you to supportknowing that, again, everyone's
journey is different, so it'stailoring what you need in that
moment. And not everyone is incrisis. Some people might just
want a podcast or a boxbreathing exercise or to chat
with a community thatunderstands what they're going
(19:46):
through in that moment, nomatter what it is. And then
there are crisis intervention sothis platform now can be
customized and white labeled forany organization, for any
workplace. So. So they can taketheir element and plug that into
the platform, and then evenencompass their resources and
their tools and just have hopeguide, guide you to the support.
(20:10):
But I
DeAnn Knighton (20:12):
wonder if you could speak to maybe some of the
skeptics out there around thethis idea of technology as a
tool for healing in thiscapacity, because I know that
that's something that peoplequestion a lot, and we've had so
much change in the last fewyears, I think it's important to
touch on,
Unknown (20:28):
you know, what's interesting about anybody who
might be skeptics of AI andtechnology? We totally
understand that. And I thinkwhat we're saying is that the
technology isn't the be all, endall, that's in parallel to and
alongside the human component,and then it doesn't replace
(20:49):
that, right? So the power ofbeing able to do the two
together is just really amazing.
Who isn't a skeptic? I mean,honestly, you know, who isn't a
skeptic? I mean, here's thething, right? Like, as Caitlin
mentioned, you know, I don'tthink hope, or any of the
technology from an AIstandpoint, or anything else,
(21:11):
eventually, it's never going toreplace, you know, interpersonal
communication and connection,right? Like nothing. We don't
really think anything canreplace that? Is it possible
that technology can can be justthat, as you mentioned, a tool
to help people get to theconnection that they need to get
(21:34):
to? You know, basically fasteror more efficiently, or
whatever? Because, let's behonest, too. In certain
situations when resources areneeded, time is the time is of
the essence, right? Itabsolutely is a scenario where
it can be very important. And soif we can lower the barrier to,
(21:54):
you know, providing a number ofresources to somebody in need
faster or again or moreefficiently, then that's a, I
think that's a bonus. You know,the other thing about, I think,
just like the technology andeverything, is the fact that
it's like, it's becoming more, Ithink people are opening up to
it more. I mean, like, look atanything like self driving cars,
(22:18):
right? Like, you know, five or10 years ago, we were probably
all freaking out about it now,like people actually get in
vehicles that are, you know,it's like. So I think we're
ready for it. And even gettingback to the conversation we've
been having on this podcast thatyou know, is the work place,
more ready for this conversationnow than it maybe was 1015, 20
(22:41):
years ago. Okay, in general, weas a culture, maybe haven't been
ready, or as ready for themental wellness conversation in
everyday life. But clearly wehave, whether it's been through
the, you know, the pandemic andthe conversation of mental
health in schools or with peopleor whatever, getting back into
normal life. Well now likeworkplaces, you know when, when
(23:05):
you apply, when you when youlook at a job. You know there
are mental health. You knowbenefits that are literally
being used as potential. Youknow reasons to work for an
employer. So if an employer isnow going to that length of of
including mental wellness aspart of their program, or
whatever, or talking to us abouthow we can incorporate, you
(23:28):
know, live and connected or hopeinto the things that we're
doing. Like, maybe people aremore willing and open to that
conversation now, and I thinkthat's no different than whether
it's substance use disorder oranything else, right? Like, if
people are more willing to tohave these conversations, we all
got to be there collectively, toto engage in them
as a society. And what webelieve is that we have, really
(23:50):
have to meet people wherethey're at and so that that's
that's all different elements,because some people want to
remain remain anonymous,especially in the workplace, and
so being able to give peopleseveral different options is a
must if we're going to, youknow, scrape away at suicide
prevention and the technologythat we've provided on purpose.
(24:14):
There are no logins, you canchat anonymously, there's no
tracking, and we've done thatvery deliberately, because we
want people, especially in theworkplace, if you're feeling
like, well, I don't want them totrack me. I don't want them to
know what I'm going through.
Because there is still a stigmain the workplace, of course, and
people are worried about who'sgoing to know what. We want to
keep it like that on purpose.
(24:37):
And so there's a lot more pros,I think, than the cons,
although, you know, all thingsto to weigh against each other.
You know, absolutely,
DeAnn Knighton (24:47):
yeah, you know, it's interesting. I was
recovering from substance usedisorder during the pandemic.
Was kind of the period of timewhere I was really isolated and
had hit a wall with my recovery.
And. And actually, as a resultof the pandemic, I was able to
find resources that have havebeen life changing for me that I
probably would not have foundotherwise, because the treatment
(25:07):
community was kind of pushing metowards local resources, and I
was able to connect and meetwith people in different parts
of the country and buildrelationships in a different way
that I am so grateful for andreally like has changed my path.
So I'm a big proponent andsupporter of that idea. And I
think maybe the one thing Iwanted to ask about, too, now
(25:29):
that this conversation is makingme think about, is there's also
maybe a little bit of amisunderstanding or
misconception that if we talkabout things, that somehow it's
going to make it more prevalent?
Yeah,
Unknown (25:42):
I think that the more that we talk about things, the
more people open up. I thinkspecifically in the workplace,
what we're trying to do is toprepare people for that. So once
you start those conversations,and you deliberately start them,
just ensuring that people areequipped to say something or how
(26:02):
to handle it. So I just learnedthat the number one response
that people get, so if you'restruggling and you reach out to
a friend or a confidant, or evenin the workplace, you say
something, the number oneresponse that people are met
with is a non response, and thatis super heartbreaking. And so I
think our due diligence is toequip workplaces and
(26:25):
organizations to have that notbe a thing. So before we go in
and start, you know,deliberately fostering an
environment in which we open upthose conversations which can be
done it, there's steps beforethat that you know, need to
happen so that you can just feelsomewhat comfortable to say
something, right? None of ushave to be subject matter
(26:48):
experts. You know, we don't haveto be crisis intervention
experts or professionals, butjust be comfortable enough to
ask somebody if they have a planor if they're struggling, and,
more importantly, walk alongsidethem, to get them support, you
know, or a safety plan. And so,you know, I'm, I would just say
that that's where we come in, tohelp with that, to help not only
(27:10):
foster the dialog, but to helpsupport people. Because, you
know, it definitely isimpactful. One
thing that I would probably addto that, and you know, it's
like, if we're not going to talkabout it in the workplace, we're
either making, I guess I wouldsay, one of two assumptions,
right? Either one is that it'snot happening and we're just
(27:33):
ignorant to it, right? Which weall know is not true, right? So
there is going to be mentalmental health concerns, there is
going to be substance usedisorder, whatever, right. So to
be ignorant to it is probablynot the right way. The only
other conversation is maybe thatit, you know, it doesn't belong
in the workforce, or forwhatever reason, like the, you
know, the A company's job is notthat right. And I think our
(27:58):
challenge to that would probablybe if you've got people that are
spending, you know, 40, 5060,hours a week, you know, I mean,
like your work, family is a bigpart of who we all are, okay.
And, I mean, I remember we had aconversation early on in live in
that we talked about a visionwhere we could be as comfortable
(28:20):
talking about mental mentalwellness as we are the weather,
right? Because, and now we're inMinnesota, and Minnesotans can
talk about the weather like withanybody. Okay, so how is it
possible that I can talk, youknow, about the weather for five
minutes riding up and down anelevator with a stranger, but I
can't talk to people that aresuper close to me about a
(28:41):
concern that I'm having, or anissue that I might be having, or
a tough time that I'm goingthrough, think about that that's
such a, you know, an interestingdichotomy, right? So we said,
Okay, what if we could make itas comfortable as talking about
the weather? Well, if we'regoing to do that, then we have
to get into places where theconversation maybe isn't
normally seen in schools, forexample, which a lot of people
(29:01):
are doing that now with kids,which is great, you know, at
home, and I think a lot moreconversations are starting to
happen at home with with lovedones and stuff like that, in
families, you know, at thedinner table, you know, Caitlin
talks all times like, let's justhave everyday conversations
about mental wellness and makeit okay. And maybe another one
or and you could almost argue.
The third one is in theworkplace, right? You're
(29:22):
spending a lot of your time inthe workplace. So if, if we
can't talk about this there, ifwe can't engage in a in a
conversation in the workplace,that is productive, and that is
in some way, shape or form, youknow, engaging to people, or,
dare I say, like, even helpful,therapeutic, whatever we're
missing out on a big chunk ofpeople and a big chunk of time
(29:44):
when it comes to this problem.
DeAnn Knighton (29:47):
Yeah, I believe it definitely. And, you know, I
actually was recently for schoollooking at something around
obsessive compulsive disorderand obsessive thoughts in
particular, and how that can betied, you know, right to
potentially. Like suicidalideation, and the way through
that is like exposure to theidea, and if it stays in the
dark, in the shame, that'sactually when it's far more
(30:09):
dangerous, right? Than thanbeing able to talk about it or
hear other people talking aboutit, and sort of bringing this
idea forward, that you're notalone. And I
Unknown (30:17):
just recently through the QPR Institute, the National
QPR Institute, Question,Persuade, Refer, that's a
nationally, nationally renownsuicide prevention methodology
and training. And I justrecently got myself certified as
an instructor. And as part ofthat training, they actually
tackle specifically yourquestion about, hey, does
(30:38):
talking about this and fosteringadditional dialog. Does that
actually increase the risk inwhich people would, you know,
think about these things or dothem? And there's actually been
surveys and studies donenationally that indicate that is
not the case. There's nothingout there. And again, those are
nationally renowned surveys byAmerican Foundation for Suicide
(30:59):
Prevention, the QPR Institutethemselves, clinically, doctors,
you know, all those things thatindicate that's not the case.
And in fact, it by actuallyfostering these things, it
reduces the risk by 79% which isin that those are workplace
statistics. So they say that theaverage suicide within a
(31:20):
workplace, costs an organizationupwards of $1.3 million just in
lost productivity and obviouslythe ripple effect through the
organization. But that byimplementing suicide prevention
programs such as this andfostering dialog, starting those
conversations, making it okay,it actually reduces, you know,
(31:42):
suicide in the workplace by 79%and to me, that's really
powerful, right? Because there'ssimple things that can happen,
like conversation starters, thatactually reduce the potential of
that happening.
Yeah, I think the the simple,you know, conversation or maybe
(32:04):
narrative, is that it's like youdon't give some like, you don't
give someone an idea of, likesuicide, like, if they're if
they're having suicidalideation, or whatever, like that
that is coming from eithersomething that they have, you
know, dealt with for many yearsthrough, you know, through a lot
of different things. It's notlike you come in talk about it,
and someone's sitting in theroom going, Oh, great idea. I
(32:26):
never thought of that. You know,it's just that's just a it's
just that that's not how itworks.
DeAnn Knighton (32:31):
Yeah, I think it's important to mention
though, too, because I thinksometimes there's, there's
different thoughts about it.
Thank you. Let's just jump overand talk about what you have
coming up and anything that youwant to share with the audience
in terms of how to findresources and more about your
organization. Yeah,
Unknown (32:50):
so all of our all the information, can be found at our
website, live in foundation.org,so we have lots of ways to get
involved and look at ourupcoming events. We have an
annual Music Festival at ERXmotor Park, just community that
comes together and really live,do all things that are living
(33:11):
for that weekend, music,barbecue, kids activities,
again, that can be found on ourwebsite. And just would love to
have you come out and enjoyenjoy life with a community that
understands what it's like. Soagain, back to the peer to peer
and the live in camp andindividual retreats for families
(33:32):
and individuals that have lost aloved one to suicide, and those
are annual events, so whetheryour family unit would like to
come together and heal withintentional, voluntary
activities that are planned, oryou would want to come as an
individual, whether it's anadult or a father, and again,
come together around a bonfireand through group activities,
(33:57):
again, very intentional, and youcan heal together As a community
that understands what it's liketo lose someone to suicide and
then pick up the pieces and thentry to heal going forward. And
we also have a financial grantprogram, so it's called the
Living Community Fund andindividuals that is open year
round. You can apply on ourwebsite under the Get support
(34:20):
section, and you know, we'vecovered, we cover things such as
preventive measures. So whetherit's I need to go to therapy and
I need assistance with coveringsome of that cost, or,
unfortunately, after a loss,assisting with funeral expenses
and just day to day livingexpenses. So we have a grant
(34:42):
committee that reviews all ofthose one by one, on a case by
case basis, and we've been veryfortunate by some community
partners, specifically KrausAnderson, who has taken a huge
stance in funding and helping usbe able to I. To reach more
people with that program.
Because up until this point,we've only been able to approve
(35:03):
5% of the requests that come indue to our budget constraints.
But Krause Anderson constructioncame on and said, We're we're
going to come on in a big wayand help you reach more people.
So that's been really powerful.
And if anyone is listening tothis again, you can find that
application on our website andshare that with individuals that
(35:25):
could use a little bit of hopein the form of some financial
assistance to kind of show youthat someone cares and help you
get through whatever thatsituation is that you're going
through. And then we, as Imentioned earlier, we just
launched a new mental healthproduct called Mind Well five.
So that is a holistic programwhere we will come alongside you
(35:49):
and help foster these veryimportant conversations within
the workplace. Also implementsome technology via a new so all
these things are a great gatewayto start the conversations and
then very intentionally, get youto the help you need. In
addition to all of those things,we also offer free virtual
(36:12):
suicide prevention training toanyone nationwide, and that can
be found on our website underthe Get Involved section and on
our social media, at live infoundation, on Facebook and
Instagram. So again, you cantake that training in the
comfort of your own home. It's a90 minute training in which you
would then get a certificationafterwards. Again, that training
(36:35):
teaches you you know how toidentify warning signs, not just
in loved ones and friends, butspecifically in the workplace as
well, but more importantly, whatto do and say if someone is
struggling. And so we it's beenreally cool. We've had attendees
come from all over the world tothose trainings, and that's what
(36:57):
we go into organizations, and weteach as well with a more
tailored, customized trainingfor leadership teams and the
organization. Oh,
DeAnn Knighton (37:05):
that's amazing.
Yeah, I'll make sure thatthere's links to all of that
good stuff in the show notes sothat people can find that
easily. Thank you so much forbeing here. Thank you for the
work that you're doing and forall of the energy and effort
you're putting into thisimportant topic. It was so great
to talk with you both today.
Unknown (37:22):
Thank you so much. We appreciate it. Very much.
Thanks for the opportunity. Weappreciate it.
DeAnn Knighton (37:30):
So Craig, I thought we would just talk a
little bit now that we've hadthat conversation, what were
your thoughts listening to ustalk about the mission of sober,
positive workplace, and thenwhat live in Foundation is
doing? The simple
Unknown (37:44):
answer is, I was struck so many times that I wanted to
unmute myself and jump into theconversation at how closely
parallel these two challengesare, and it's not surprising at
all. Right, there's a reasonthat, from a clinical point of
view, we call these co occurringdisorders, right? They they have
(38:06):
so many common causes and somany common solutions that the
umbrella of mental health isabout as good as I think we've
been able to come up with tocapture the fact that we have a
whole person who is sick andthis thing is happening to them,
and we need to make them wholeagain. And the the ways we fail
(38:30):
and the ways we recover from areso similar, regardless of what
the actual diagnosis is, rightit so that just shouted in
volumes to me as I listened,
DeAnn Knighton (38:43):
yeah, I really did. I Yeah. I liked what you
said about the fact that,basically, at any point in time
we could have said substance usedisorder or suicide, and it
would have fit into whateversentence the other person was
saying. I think that, like, it'svery true thinking back on that.
Yeah, that was a greatconversation. Thanks so much for
(39:04):
setting this up. Yeah, I
Unknown (39:05):
hope everybody else enjoyed it.
DeAnn Knighton (39:11):
For more information on sober positive
workplace, please visit ourwebsite, sober positive
workplace.org, this podcast iswritten and hosted by me
deannnighton and produced by thewickedly talented Katie hare
you.
Hey, Craig, hey, DeAnn, hey, I wanted to have you
help me set up this episodetoday, sure, and I wanted to
have you walk us through how youmet these individuals and why it
made sense for us to have thisconversation today.
Unknown (00:16):
I met them really as part of my retirement recovery
process. I retired at the end ofthe year, and I was looking for
new things to do and focus on,especially with organizations
that were mission based andseemed to be doing important
work in the health and healthcare business. And a friend of
(00:40):
mine from prior work that I'ddone, recommended that I meet
this group called live in andthe co founders are people who
both lost their fathers tosuicide, and of course, with
mental health and suicideawareness and prevention and and
(01:05):
substance use disorder, all sortof tied so intricately close
together, like one of the Mostmost powerful connections is
between substance use and andsuicide itself, right that
people who are struggling withsubstances are often also
(01:28):
ideating about suicide or goingthrough a lot of emotional
depression and and need thatkind of help too. So I decided
to to reach out and join theteam and meet them at an off
site that they were having. Andwhat really surprised me was
they also had this veryfascinating technology angle to
(01:50):
their work, that they wereapplying some of these new
artificial intelligence tools asa way of helping people learn
about and understand suicideprevention, and that they had
brought this to life in thisproduct that they were now
taking to market. So that's howI met them, and I was so
(02:14):
impressed by how this small, butyou know, spunky team had put
together this very interestingtechnology that I decided to get
more involved.
DeAnn Knighton (02:29):
This is DeAnn, and you are listening to the
sober, positive workplace seriesbrought to you by show up and
stay. Hi all. Welcome back tothe podcast. We've been focused
here the last several months onthe importance of advocacy in
the workplace for thoserecovering from substance use
(02:50):
disorder, and today'sconversation is a great
opportunity to broaden thatdiscussion. It should be no
surprise to hear that there's agreat deal of overlap in
substance use disorder andsuicide rates, and that suicide
prevention and substance useprevention go hand in hand in
the workplace and beyond. Today,I'm speaking with PT and Caitlin
(03:10):
of live in foundation. PT ismedia personality and founder of
the Minnesota based mentalhealth nonprofit Living
Foundation. Caitlin co foundsthis new revolutionary mental
health support platform calledlive in connected, powered by
hope, and also an advisory boardmember for the live in
foundation. So let's actuallystart with you. PT, I want to
(03:34):
have everyone get to know you alittle more. So I saved some of
the details about your story andbackground because I thought it
would be so much better to haveit come from you. So can you
tell us what got you connectedto this work and what drives
your passion? Yeah,
Unknown (03:47):
thanks. Thanks for the opportunity. I think you know my
story is, I think a lot likeother folks, when it comes to a
particular cause, I have apersonal connection to it. I
lost my father to suicide in2013 and although, you know, he
didn't necessarily struggle withsubstance use disorder, I think
(04:10):
in a lot of ways, there are somany connections to, like mental
health, mental illness, and justlike other components, you know,
we talk often that, you know,mental wellness is, is like a
it's like a spoke on a wheel,right? There are so many
components to it, and it's alittle bit more more difficult
(04:30):
to, you know, determine, like,you know, different, difficult
to understand, compared tophysical wellness, right? So
after losing my dad about 12years ago, I was kind of in a
tough spot myself, I think,mentally and just trying to
figure out where to go with it.
But I knew that I wanted toremember my dad for how he lived
rather than how he died. And Ithink in doing that, I started,
(04:54):
I started the Living Foundationwith just this idea of like
we're. Remembering him for howhe lived, rather than how he
died. Because I think a lot oftimes in in a loss by suicide,
you know, I think the legacy ofthat person, like, becomes a
little bit too much about howthey died. And so, like, I was
thought about changing that, andhonestly, it just started by me,
(05:15):
you know, kind of talking aboutthat, and sharing my story. And
I think it just resonated with alot of people because they were
in a similar spot with, youknow, either their loss by
suicide or just like, theirstruggles themselves, like, or
somebody in their family withwith mental health and mental
illness and whatnot and and, youknow, maybe just realizing that
(05:35):
through living and through thislike hashtag, live in we almost
became, you know, a talkingpoint, maybe, dare I say, a
platform or an excuse forsomebody to have a conversation
about this, this, you know,relatively difficult topic, and
and it just kind of took offfrom there. So it started
really, very organically, justwith, again, kind of me trying
(05:59):
to tell my story a little bitand remember my dad, and now
it's turned into something thathopefully is, is giving a lot of
people, you know, an opportunityto make connections with others,
and hopefully an opportunity totell their story and and find a
level of of, you know, hope andhealing, maybe through it and
through that community and so onso forth. But I'll be honest, I
I never would have dreamt, youknow, of course, losing my dad.
(06:22):
I mean, never expected that, butthen never expected where we're
at right now with thefoundation, but, you know,
obviously, at the same time,very proud of it.
DeAnn Knighton (06:32):
Oh yeah, that's wonderful. Thank you so much for
sharing. And I, you know,there's so much that overlaps
that we're going to talk about alittle bit here. But I think one
of the things that is reallyimportant is it just in the
language and the way that wetalk about these issues and that
we do talk about them. Yeah,
Unknown (06:48):
I mean, on that note, I mean, to be honest, we're, like,
we're very deliberate, like,when I say, like, a loss by
suicide, or died by suicide, Ithink a lot of people, I think
that, you know, they say commitsuicide. Because I think back in
the day, it was really moreconsidered, I think, like,
religiously, a sin in somecapacity. So it's like, but, you
know, we often will refer to thefact that you don't, you know,
(07:10):
you don't commit cancer, and sopeople don't have this negative
stigma associated with it. Andyou know, my partner, Caitlin
here, you know we were talkingabout how I think a similar
scenario and stigma and justwording with like substance use
right and substance usedisorder, versus saying like
substance abuse, you know, Ithink that's, it's a dynamic
(07:32):
that the wordings, you know,continues to perpetuate stigma,
right and stigma is where Ithink we get into a lot of
struggles with a lot of thesethings, you know. And it's not
just substance use disorder,it's not just mental illness,
but just like anytime you have astigma associated with something
because of, you know, maybewording that needs to be
updated, that's, you know,that's what you're going
DeAnn Knighton (07:54):
to get. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. Well, Caitlin,
let's learn a little bit aboutyou.
Unknown (07:58):
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having us and to
these point that was aneducator. Me to remove substance
abuse from my vocabulary andfocus on substance use, so that,
you know, again, my goal everyday is to learn something new.
And so now I'm, I feel like I'mmore educated on the topic as
well, and I very much appreciatethat. So I'm Caitlin Vegas, and
(08:21):
I have been with the live infoundation for a little over
seven years. So the live infoundation just this month
actually turned 10 years old. Sowe're just really grateful for
the momentum. I'm part of theunfortunate club that a lot of
Americans are in after losing myfather to suicide as well.
Unfortunately, when I was 12,and I spent the majority of my
(08:45):
life in denial, you know, Ididn't want to talk about it. I
didn't really want to deal withit head on. And that went on for
almost 20 years. And speaking ofsubstance use, for me,
specifically, being verytransparent, because I wasn't,
you know, willing or able totackle it head on. It did start
(09:06):
creeping out in my personal lifeas well, in certain ways, with
substance use and excessivepartying. And I started
realizing that I needed to dealwith this more head on. And then
I I actually came across thelive and Foundation, which has
been a huge part of my healingjourney. And quite honestly, you
know when, when PT talks abouthow he founded the organization,
(09:28):
I think, like he said, hedidn't, he didn't know where
this would lead. But for me,personally, talking about my
journey, I'm a perfect casestudy of what he started and
then how I was attracted to theLiving Foundation and how, quite
literally, it's helped me, buthow it's put me personally on a
better trajectory of healing andhope in my personal life. And
(09:51):
so, you know, I would say, sevenyears ago, I started, kind of
out of nowhere, really startingto say, Okay, I want to be more.
Healthy holistically. And I hada mutual friend of myself and
Paul's that said you shouldconnect live foundation. So I
went to one of his speakingengagements, and I heard him
speak, and you know, it's one ofthose out of body experiences in
(10:14):
your life. You go, I just needto know more about him and his
story. And I was very drawn tothe positivity of the messaging
around the live in foundation.
And for me personally, I found acommunity to be a part of, and
for the first time, startedfocusing on how my dad lived
when he was here, as Paul said,versus how he died. And for me,
(10:35):
that change changed narrative.
And like I had mentionedearlier, therapeutic for me. So
just something simple aschanging that narrative for me,
it started to provide hope forme, and I started on a platform
to share my story, and I startedrealizing how therapeutic that
(10:57):
was for myself. And so I startedout just volunteering with the
organization, working with PT,and seven years later, here we
are.
DeAnn Knighton (11:07):
Oh, that's beautiful. Thanks so much for
sharing that. And we often findthat those who sometimes
struggle with addiction, it istypically a symptom of something
else, and oftentimes a lot ofunresolved things from in the
past, kind of like you'retalking about right, where some
of those things that we don'tface can creep up in different
ways and show up in differentways for people, the stigma part
(11:28):
of this we've talked on a littlebit, but I think it would be so
lovely. PT, maybe if you have astory or an experience that you
can share from the work thatyou've been doing, where you've
seen the power of someone beingable to talk about something
that they hadn't before or in adifferent way and and heal
through that. I mean,
Unknown (11:47):
one of the first interactions with live in as it
pertains to that community thatCaitlin mentioned is really the,
probably my aha moment that Irefer to sometimes I was doing
radio in the in the Twin Cities,and I started talking about my
(12:07):
loss of my dad, like publicly onthe air, okay, which was a very,
very difficult thing to do,obviously, and but I, for
whatever reason, I felt like itwas necessary to start getting,
you know, getting it off mychest, or just sharing it, or
making it more of a component ofmy healing journey. Okay, and so
(12:32):
in doing that like it didbecome, I mean, honestly, it was
difficult, obviously, at first,but it did become a part of my
healing journey, and where,really, where, like I said, the
aha moment came is I was at anevent with our radio station,
and a gentleman came up to me,probably, you know, might have
been in his late 50s, early 60s,and he came up to me and he
(12:56):
asked me, who at the radiostation, like which one of the
DJs talked About a loss, by bysuicide and stuff like that. I
said, Well, it happens to be me,you know, I lost my father. And
he said, You know, I just wantto thank you, because every time
you do that, it gives me somestrength and some courage and
some hope that I I'm not alonein my journey. And it turns out
(13:16):
that he had lost his nieceearlier that year, okay, and he
had been struggling, you know,with with the questions
surrounding a loss by suicide,right? And like, whether it's
the feeling of guilt or thefeeling of sadness or
frustration or anger orwhatever. Like, we all go
through various stages andemotions and stuff and but here,
(13:38):
you know, here you hear thisperfect stranger, and I'm
hugging them, right? So nowwe're hugging, and I happen to
be having a living shirt onwhich, even to this day, is
like, kind of whatever. He'slike, I, you know, I want one of
those shirts. Like, I want to. Iwant to. I want to be part of
the movement. I want to be partof the story, like I want to be,
you know, unfortunately, again,we're like, Caitlin mentioned,
we don't want to be part of theclub, but we want to be part of
(14:00):
the change, maybe, and so, youknow, and he's like, Hey, he's
like, thank you. And we so wejust had this moment, and I
think it was at that time, if Ihadn't realized it already,
like, that was where now Irealized that, like, maybe we
were kind of on to something,right? I'm not going to wear a
shirt that says I lost my dad tosuicide, but I very proudly wear
(14:21):
my living swag, okay? Or I'mwearing my living wristband. It
reminds me, like, what, youknow, why I'm here, what I'm
doing, how I'm living today. Andnow this other gentleman, same,
same boat. He's not going to,you know, wear a big sign over
his head that says, I lost myniece to suicide, right? But
he's proudly a part of theLiving Movement. And so when
people then ask the question,hey, what's living all about? Or
(14:42):
tell me what that is. Or whenpeople do know, it's like, Hey,
I know that you're a part ofsomething. Again, it's almost
like, it's like the pink ofbreast cancer, sort of, right.
There's nothing positive aboutbreast cancer, per se, other
than beating it right and likebeing a breast cancer survivor,
but like, through the color pinkand through a. Events and just
whatever, there's this communitythat is created whereby there is
(15:04):
a sense of belonging, dare Isay, right? And I I think that
hopefully, through some of thethings that we've done with
living and, frankly, a lot ofother organizations like we are
by no means, you know, alone inthis, in this, in this space,
but I think through that, wefind connections. So that would
be like, the story that alwaysresonates to me, and I think
always is like, you know, kindof one of the initial stories is
(15:27):
just like, wow, here's twostrangers now connected over
something that we would nevernormally know at all. And, and I
can't tell you how many nowsubsequent conversations that
we've had with people that youknow are are moved to become
part of the movement because ofa connection that they have in
their lives in some capacity.
DeAnn Knighton (15:47):
Yeah, I love that, and I think it really
plays well into the conversationabout bringing this message to
maybe some of the spaces wherewe have typically avoided this
for so many reasons and tried tokeep it kind of separate from
personal but I think this issuch a great way to consider how
to integrate that. And Caitlin,I know that you've done some
work around bringing this workinto different spaces, and what
(16:11):
that could look like to open upconversations where they
normally haven't happened.
Unknown (16:15):
Yeah, I think before I even get into that, I would say
the general crux of everythingthat the live in. Foundation
stands for all of ourprogrammatic, you know, arts,
and even this next program I'mgoing to talk about is really
peer to peer support. I wouldsay that's the general theme,
kind of across our organization.
And what's a little bit moreunique. And although the
(16:36):
organization started with PT inhis vision and losing his father
and now myself, we like to sayall the time that it's not our
story, it's your story, youknow, and everyone's story is
different. Everybody has oneright and through avenues, via
peer to peer support, hownatural it can be in
(16:57):
organizations, in the workplace,really, across our communities,
to start those conversations andmake it okay for people to talk
about right at their at theirlevel, whenever they're
comfortable, right, whateverthat might be, because it's
different for all of us. Andthat's a good segue into some of
our other programming. We justdeveloped a new program offering
(17:18):
called mind well balance fivewhich will be offered in the
workplace, which really, we'rejust saying that it's five
actions to fostering mentalhealth within the organization.
And what, what makes it uniqueis really that human element.
And in taking that out, andwe're seeing a huge appetite
(17:40):
within these workplace andorganizations wanting and
needing assistance when it comesto crisis and general suicide
intervention methods and usingtraining, education and really
just Helping with cultivatingthe culture within the
organization. There's a lot oforganizations that are asking
(18:03):
and needing help with that. Sowe've got lots of resources out
there, not just us, but as acommunity and as a society.
There's a lot of technology andresources, but some of the
missing link to the connectionthere is the human element. And
so organizations are saying, Iknow this is a problem, and
we've identified that it is. I'mnot really sure what to do next,
(18:25):
right? So live in foundation iscoming in, and we're saying,
Hey, we can break this down intofive simple methods in which
we'll come on and walk alongsideyou in the journey, and we'll
start very naturally with thatpeer to peer support, whether
it's training and education withthe leadership team and the
organization as a whole,inspirational speaking
(18:45):
engagement, just slow, slowconversation starters, and on
people's terms they can startthose conversations. And just
how naturally people open up tothat. And so that's been really,
really awesome to see. And then,you know, by way of the human
interaction, moving to thetechnology component, which we
(19:05):
founded a mental health platformcalled Living connected, which
is powered by way of an AI chatbot named Hope. So really, the
crux of it is the we know can'tbe replaced by technology, but
it's really the idea of, take myhand and come with me, and I
(19:26):
will guide you to supportknowing that, again, everyone's
journey is different, so it'stailoring what you need in that
moment. And not everyone is incrisis. Some people might just
want a podcast or a boxbreathing exercise or to chat
with a community thatunderstands what they're going
(19:46):
through in that moment, nomatter what it is. And then
there are crisis intervention sothis platform now can be
customized and white labeled forany organization, for any
workplace. So. So they can taketheir element and plug that into
the platform, and then evenencompass their resources and
their tools and just have hopeguide, guide you to the support.
(20:10):
But I
DeAnn Knighton (20:12):
wonder if you could speak to maybe some of the
skeptics out there around thethis idea of technology as a
tool for healing in thiscapacity, because I know that
that's something that peoplequestion a lot, and we've had so
much change in the last fewyears, I think it's important to
touch on,
Unknown (20:28):
you know, what's interesting about anybody who
might be skeptics of AI andtechnology? We totally
understand that. And I thinkwhat we're saying is that the
technology isn't the be all, endall, that's in parallel to and
alongside the human component,and then it doesn't replace
(20:49):
that, right? So the power ofbeing able to do the two
together is just really amazing.
Who isn't a skeptic? I mean,honestly, you know, who isn't a
skeptic? I mean, here's thething, right? Like, as Caitlin
mentioned, you know, I don'tthink hope, or any of the
technology from an AIstandpoint, or anything else,
(21:11):
eventually, it's never going toreplace, you know, interpersonal
communication and connection,right? Like nothing. We don't
really think anything canreplace that? Is it possible
that technology can can be justthat, as you mentioned, a tool
to help people get to theconnection that they need to get
(21:34):
to? You know, basically fasteror more efficiently, or
whatever? Because, let's behonest, too. In certain
situations when resources areneeded, time is the time is of
the essence, right? Itabsolutely is a scenario where
it can be very important. And soif we can lower the barrier to,
(21:54):
you know, providing a number ofresources to somebody in need
faster or again or moreefficiently, then that's a, I
think that's a bonus. You know,the other thing about, I think,
just like the technology andeverything, is the fact that
it's like, it's becoming more, Ithink people are opening up to
it more. I mean, like, look atanything like self driving cars,
(22:18):
right? Like, you know, five or10 years ago, we were probably
all freaking out about it now,like people actually get in
vehicles that are, you know,it's like. So I think we're
ready for it. And even gettingback to the conversation we've
been having on this podcast thatyou know, is the work place,
more ready for this conversationnow than it maybe was 1015, 20
(22:41):
years ago. Okay, in general, weas a culture, maybe haven't been
ready, or as ready for themental wellness conversation in
everyday life. But clearly wehave, whether it's been through
the, you know, the pandemic andthe conversation of mental
health in schools or with peopleor whatever, getting back into
normal life. Well now likeworkplaces, you know when, when
(23:05):
you apply, when you when youlook at a job. You know there
are mental health. You knowbenefits that are literally
being used as potential. Youknow reasons to work for an
employer. So if an employer isnow going to that length of of
including mental wellness aspart of their program, or
whatever, or talking to us abouthow we can incorporate, you
(23:28):
know, live and connected or hopeinto the things that we're
doing. Like, maybe people aremore willing and open to that
conversation now, and I thinkthat's no different than whether
it's substance use disorder oranything else, right? Like, if
people are more willing to tohave these conversations, we all
got to be there collectively, toto engage in them
as a society. And what webelieve is that we have, really
(23:50):
have to meet people wherethey're at and so that that's
that's all different elements,because some people want to
remain remain anonymous,especially in the workplace, and
so being able to give peopleseveral different options is a
must if we're going to, youknow, scrape away at suicide
prevention and the technologythat we've provided on purpose.
(24:14):
There are no logins, you canchat anonymously, there's no
tracking, and we've done thatvery deliberately, because we
want people, especially in theworkplace, if you're feeling
like, well, I don't want them totrack me. I don't want them to
know what I'm going through.
Because there is still a stigmain the workplace, of course, and
people are worried about who'sgoing to know what. We want to
keep it like that on purpose.
(24:37):
And so there's a lot more pros,I think, than the cons,
although, you know, all thingsto to weigh against each other.
You know, absolutely,
DeAnn Knighton (24:47):
yeah, you know, it's interesting. I was
recovering from substance usedisorder during the pandemic.
Was kind of the period of timewhere I was really isolated and
had hit a wall with my recovery.
And. And actually, as a resultof the pandemic, I was able to
find resources that have havebeen life changing for me that I
probably would not have foundotherwise, because the treatment
(25:07):
community was kind of pushing metowards local resources, and I
was able to connect and meetwith people in different parts
of the country and buildrelationships in a different way
that I am so grateful for andreally like has changed my path.
So I'm a big proponent andsupporter of that idea. And I
think maybe the one thing Iwanted to ask about, too, now
(25:29):
that this conversation is makingme think about, is there's also
maybe a little bit of amisunderstanding or
misconception that if we talkabout things, that somehow it's
going to make it more prevalent?
Yeah,
Unknown (25:42):
I think that the more that we talk about things, the
more people open up. I thinkspecifically in the workplace,
what we're trying to do is toprepare people for that. So once
you start those conversations,and you deliberately start them,
just ensuring that people areequipped to say something or how
(26:02):
to handle it. So I just learnedthat the number one response
that people get, so if you'restruggling and you reach out to
a friend or a confidant, or evenin the workplace, you say
something, the number oneresponse that people are met
with is a non response, and thatis super heartbreaking. And so I
think our due diligence is toequip workplaces and
(26:25):
organizations to have that notbe a thing. So before we go in
and start, you know,deliberately fostering an
environment in which we open upthose conversations which can be
done it, there's steps beforethat that you know, need to
happen so that you can just feelsomewhat comfortable to say
something, right? None of ushave to be subject matter
(26:48):
experts. You know, we don't haveto be crisis intervention
experts or professionals, butjust be comfortable enough to
ask somebody if they have a planor if they're struggling, and,
more importantly, walk alongsidethem, to get them support, you
know, or a safety plan. And so,you know, I'm, I would just say
that that's where we come in, tohelp with that, to help not only
(27:10):
foster the dialog, but to helpsupport people. Because, you
know, it definitely isimpactful. One
thing that I would probably addto that, and you know, it's
like, if we're not going to talkabout it in the workplace, we're
either making, I guess I wouldsay, one of two assumptions,
right? Either one is that it'snot happening and we're just
(27:33):
ignorant to it, right? Which weall know is not true, right? So
there is going to be mentalmental health concerns, there is
going to be substance usedisorder, whatever, right. So to
be ignorant to it is probablynot the right way. The only
other conversation is maybe thatit, you know, it doesn't belong
in the workforce, or forwhatever reason, like the, you
know, the A company's job is notthat right. And I think our
(27:58):
challenge to that would probablybe if you've got people that are
spending, you know, 40, 5060,hours a week, you know, I mean,
like your work, family is a bigpart of who we all are, okay.
And, I mean, I remember we had aconversation early on in live in
that we talked about a visionwhere we could be as comfortable
(28:20):
talking about mental mentalwellness as we are the weather,
right? Because, and now we're inMinnesota, and Minnesotans can
talk about the weather like withanybody. Okay, so how is it
possible that I can talk, youknow, about the weather for five
minutes riding up and down anelevator with a stranger, but I
can't talk to people that aresuper close to me about a
(28:41):
concern that I'm having, or anissue that I might be having, or
a tough time that I'm goingthrough, think about that that's
such a, you know, an interestingdichotomy, right? So we said,
Okay, what if we could make itas comfortable as talking about
the weather? Well, if we'regoing to do that, then we have
to get into places where theconversation maybe isn't
normally seen in schools, forexample, which a lot of people
(29:01):
are doing that now with kids,which is great, you know, at
home, and I think a lot moreconversations are starting to
happen at home with with lovedones and stuff like that, in
families, you know, at thedinner table, you know, Caitlin
talks all times like, let's justhave everyday conversations
about mental wellness and makeit okay. And maybe another one
or and you could almost argue.
The third one is in theworkplace, right? You're
(29:22):
spending a lot of your time inthe workplace. So if, if we
can't talk about this there, ifwe can't engage in a in a
conversation in the workplace,that is productive, and that is
in some way, shape or form, youknow, engaging to people, or,
dare I say, like, even helpful,therapeutic, whatever we're
missing out on a big chunk ofpeople and a big chunk of time
(29:44):
when it comes to this problem.
DeAnn Knighton (29:47):
Yeah, I believe it definitely. And, you know, I
actually was recently for schoollooking at something around
obsessive compulsive disorderand obsessive thoughts in
particular, and how that can betied, you know, right to
potentially. Like suicidalideation, and the way through
that is like exposure to theidea, and if it stays in the
dark, in the shame, that'sactually when it's far more
(30:09):
dangerous, right? Than thanbeing able to talk about it or
hear other people talking aboutit, and sort of bringing this
idea forward, that you're notalone. And I
Unknown (30:17):
just recently through the QPR Institute, the National
QPR Institute, Question,Persuade, Refer, that's a
nationally, nationally renownsuicide prevention methodology
and training. And I justrecently got myself certified as
an instructor. And as part ofthat training, they actually
tackle specifically yourquestion about, hey, does
(30:38):
talking about this and fosteringadditional dialog. Does that
actually increase the risk inwhich people would, you know,
think about these things or dothem? And there's actually been
surveys and studies donenationally that indicate that is
not the case. There's nothingout there. And again, those are
nationally renowned surveys byAmerican Foundation for Suicide
(30:59):
Prevention, the QPR Institutethemselves, clinically, doctors,
you know, all those things thatindicate that's not the case.
And in fact, it by actuallyfostering these things, it
reduces the risk by 79% which isin that those are workplace
statistics. So they say that theaverage suicide within a
(31:20):
workplace, costs an organizationupwards of $1.3 million just in
lost productivity and obviouslythe ripple effect through the
organization. But that byimplementing suicide prevention
programs such as this andfostering dialog, starting those
conversations, making it okay,it actually reduces, you know,
(31:42):
suicide in the workplace by 79%and to me, that's really
powerful, right? Because there'ssimple things that can happen,
like conversation starters, thatactually reduce the potential of
that happening.
Yeah, I think the the simple,you know, conversation or maybe
(32:04):
narrative, is that it's like youdon't give some like, you don't
give someone an idea of, likesuicide, like, if they're if
they're having suicidalideation, or whatever, like that
that is coming from eithersomething that they have, you
know, dealt with for many yearsthrough, you know, through a lot
of different things. It's notlike you come in talk about it,
and someone's sitting in theroom going, Oh, great idea. I
(32:26):
never thought of that. You know,it's just that's just a it's
just that that's not how itworks.
DeAnn Knighton (32:31):
Yeah, I think it's important to mention
though, too, because I thinksometimes there's, there's
different thoughts about it.
Thank you. Let's just jump overand talk about what you have
coming up and anything that youwant to share with the audience
in terms of how to findresources and more about your
organization. Yeah,
Unknown (32:50):
so all of our all the information, can be found at our
website, live in foundation.org,so we have lots of ways to get
involved and look at ourupcoming events. We have an
annual Music Festival at ERXmotor Park, just community that
comes together and really live,do all things that are living
(33:11):
for that weekend, music,barbecue, kids activities,
again, that can be found on ourwebsite. And just would love to
have you come out and enjoyenjoy life with a community that
understands what it's like. Soagain, back to the peer to peer
and the live in camp andindividual retreats for families
(33:32):
and individuals that have lost aloved one to suicide, and those
are annual events, so whetheryour family unit would like to
come together and heal withintentional, voluntary
activities that are planned, oryou would want to come as an
individual, whether it's anadult or a father, and again,
come together around a bonfireand through group activities,
(33:57):
again, very intentional, and youcan heal together As a community
that understands what it's liketo lose someone to suicide and
then pick up the pieces and thentry to heal going forward. And
we also have a financial grantprogram, so it's called the
Living Community Fund andindividuals that is open year
round. You can apply on ourwebsite under the Get support
(34:20):
section, and you know, we'vecovered, we cover things such as
preventive measures. So whetherit's I need to go to therapy and
I need assistance with coveringsome of that cost, or,
unfortunately, after a loss,assisting with funeral expenses
and just day to day livingexpenses. So we have a grant
(34:42):
committee that reviews all ofthose one by one, on a case by
case basis, and we've been veryfortunate by some community
partners, specifically KrausAnderson, who has taken a huge
stance in funding and helping usbe able to I. To reach more
people with that program.
Because up until this point,we've only been able to approve
(35:03):
5% of the requests that come indue to our budget constraints.
But Krause Anderson constructioncame on and said, We're we're
going to come on in a big wayand help you reach more people.
So that's been really powerful.
And if anyone is listening tothis again, you can find that
application on our website andshare that with individuals that
(35:25):
could use a little bit of hopein the form of some financial
assistance to kind of show youthat someone cares and help you
get through whatever thatsituation is that you're going
through. And then we, as Imentioned earlier, we just
launched a new mental healthproduct called Mind Well five.
So that is a holistic programwhere we will come alongside you
(35:49):
and help foster these veryimportant conversations within
the workplace. Also implementsome technology via a new so all
these things are a great gatewayto start the conversations and
then very intentionally, get youto the help you need. In
addition to all of those things,we also offer free virtual
(36:12):
suicide prevention training toanyone nationwide, and that can
be found on our website underthe Get Involved section and on
our social media, at live infoundation, on Facebook and
Instagram. So again, you cantake that training in the
comfort of your own home. It's a90 minute training in which you
would then get a certificationafterwards. Again, that training
(36:35):
teaches you you know how toidentify warning signs, not just
in loved ones and friends, butspecifically in the workplace as
well, but more importantly, whatto do and say if someone is
struggling. And so we it's beenreally cool. We've had attendees
come from all over the world tothose trainings, and that's what
(36:57):
we go into organizations, and weteach as well with a more
tailored, customized trainingfor leadership teams and the
organization. Oh,
DeAnn Knighton (37:05):
that's amazing.
Yeah, I'll make sure thatthere's links to all of that
good stuff in the show notes sothat people can find that
easily. Thank you so much forbeing here. Thank you for the
work that you're doing and forall of the energy and effort
you're putting into thisimportant topic. It was so great
to talk with you both today.
Unknown (37:22):
Thank you so much. We appreciate it. Very much.
Thanks for the opportunity. Weappreciate it.
DeAnn Knighton (37:30):
So Craig, I thought we would just talk a
little bit now that we've hadthat conversation, what were
your thoughts listening to ustalk about the mission of sober,
positive workplace, and thenwhat live in Foundation is
doing? The simple
Unknown (37:44):
answer is, I was struck so many times that I wanted to
unmute myself and jump into theconversation at how closely
parallel these two challengesare, and it's not surprising at
all. Right, there's a reasonthat, from a clinical point of
view, we call these co occurringdisorders, right? They they have
(38:06):
so many common causes and somany common solutions that the
umbrella of mental health isabout as good as I think we've
been able to come up with tocapture the fact that we have a
whole person who is sick andthis thing is happening to them,
and we need to make them wholeagain. And the the ways we fail
(38:30):
and the ways we recover from areso similar, regardless of what
the actual diagnosis is, rightit so that just shouted in
volumes to me as I listened,
DeAnn Knighton (38:43):
yeah, I really did. I Yeah. I liked what you
said about the fact that,basically, at any point in time
we could have said substance usedisorder or suicide, and it
would have fit into whateversentence the other person was
saying. I think that, like, it'svery true thinking back on that.
Yeah, that was a greatconversation. Thanks so much for
(39:04):
setting this up. Yeah, I
Unknown (39:05):
hope everybody else enjoyed it.
DeAnn Knighton (39:11):
For more information on sober positive
workplace, please visit ourwebsite, sober positive
workplace.org, this podcast iswritten and hosted by me
deannnighton and produced by thewickedly talented Katie hare
you.
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