May 22, 2025 • 37 mins
Pete used to be all smoke and mirrors—a fast-talking hustler with a gift for manipulation and a knack for disappearing just when things got real. He had no map, no mission, and no clue who he was without the drugs. Directionless, disconnected, and dangerously close to becoming another cautionary tale, Peter lived a life that was all hustle, no heart.
But then something unexpected happened: he got clean. And everything changed.
In this compelling episode, we trace Peter’s journey from the chaos of addiction to becoming a deeply respected pillar in the Venice Beach sober community. Today, Peter is a man on fire—with purpose, humility, and a deep, unshakable commitment to Alcoholics Anonymous. He’s not just a believer in the Big Book—he embodies it. With an encyclopedic knowledge of its principles and a fierce devotion to working with men one-on-one, Peter has helped countless others walk out of the darkness he once knew so well.
This is a story about transformation, yes—but more than that, it’s about service, legacy, and what it means to become a man of integrity after a lifetime of running from it
Sicker Than Others is bought to you by Pink Cloud Coffee. Pink Cloud Coffee is an award-winning coffee company based in Los Angeles with the primary purpose of helping addicts and alcoholics through scholarships and work programs. Sicker Than Others listeners get 10% off their first order. Go to pinkcloudcoffee.com and use promo code sick10 for 10% off any beans or merchandise.
For more information on Beit T’Shuvah please go to www.beittshuvah.org.
For more information on the program of Alcoholics Anonymous go to www.aa.org.
Host: Seb Webber
Engineered and Produced by: Ted Greenberg
Producers: Laura Bagish, Jesse Solomon, and Chris Hendrickson
Executive Producer: Seb Webber
Intro Theme by Rich Daytona
Recorded live at: Beit T’Shuvah, 8831 Venice Blvd, Los Angeles, CA 90034.
To reach the production team, please email: seb@magick-arts.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:00):
Ah, that's the sound of pink cloud coffee and their
(00:03):
exceptional Columbian roast.
Pink cloud coffee is an awardwinning Coffee Company based in
Los Angeles with the primarypurpose of helping addicts and
alcoholics through scholarshipsand work programs. Sicker than
others, listeners get 10% offtheir first order. Go to pink
cloudcoffee.com and use promocode sick 10 for 10% off any
beans or merchandise sicker thanothers, is a podcast on the ups
and downs of recovery brought toyou from within a treatment
(00:25):
center in Los Angeles. Thispodcast does not reflect the
views or opinions of beta shuvaor any of its subsidiary
businesses or partners sickerthan others. Neither speaks for
AA or recovery as a whole, butyou'll find some useful links on
both if you'd like to find outmore information sicker than
others, touches on subjects andsituations that some listeners
might find offensive, or, Ifyou're lucky, triggering you
(00:45):
have been warned.
David Luke, David,Hi and welcome to sick and
(01:09):
others. The podcast brought toyou from within a residential
treatment center in SouthernCalifornia. Welcome back.
Welcome back. Welcome back.
Here's a reminder, if you'reloving what we're doing, if you
get something from this, yougotta follow us on Spotify. You
gotta like on YouTube. You gottado all the shit that I don't
actually really understand, butdo it. It helps us grow the
(01:32):
podcast and and maybe we canhelp some more people. And also,
if you're in the program, or youtalk to people in the program,
and you think some people mightget something from this. Share
it with them. That's all I'masking for. Okay, my guest today
is a good friend of mine fromthe meetings I go to. Pete,
welcome to the show. Thank youso much. I'm glad to be here,
dude. I'm so stoked to have youon the show. So Pete has seen my
(01:55):
rise, my full full full fullfull when he's seen my rise, and
there's a couple of things Ireally love about you. Your
knowledge of the book is dead.
You try to be fucking mental.
Your knowledge of the Book keepit in, just keep it rolling.
Your knowledge of the book isfucking great. And I love how
you talk about wanting to readwith new people all the time.
(02:16):
And that inspires me. So, havingsaid that, tell me about your
journey. Tell me about how yougot sober. So,
yeah, I'm just to also say,like, I'm really excited to be a
part of this. I have seen yourfall, fall, fall, fall, fall,
rise, and it always I guess.
What keeps this thing excitingfor me is seeing somebody like
(02:38):
you who, like, is a real one,you know, fall, fall, fall, and
then really get this thing and,like, immerse yourself in the
community, because you're alikable guy, and people have
always, like, kind of clung toyou. But like, watching you get
super involved and then have thetransition and be super
effective in the rooms has been,like, really cool to watch. So I
(03:01):
just want to, like, give youthat before I start going. Thank
you. That's, that's kind of thestuff that keeps me going. Um,
where does my recovery begin?
You can start from wherever youwant. I like to hear war
stories. You like tohear war stories? Yeah, I, uh, I
got sober at 22 I was reallylucky in the sense that my
addiction, I'm a heroin, crackcocaine user, and I think as
(03:26):
much as I hated that aboutmyself, really kind of opened
the floodgates to likeacknowledgement of I need help,
and I need it fast, you know,whereas I could have probably
continued on a journey ofblackout, drinking and sniffing
cocaine and popping Xanax everynow and then, last till I'm, you
(03:50):
know, 3540 years old before I'mlike, Oh, well, like, My life
sucks, you know. And like allthe people around me, you know,
that I grew up with are, like,living these really cool lives,
and I've just like, maintainedand just like existed until I'm
35 before I realized, like, Ihave no purpose. I have nothing
going on. And so I think thatone thing I'm really grateful
(04:12):
for about, you know, my drugs ofchoice was that, you know,
there's not many heroin addictsor, you know, crack smokers that
I know that are very functional,you know,
balance. They don't reallybalance it out there as well.
Yeah, yeah, either in or you'reout, yeah,
exactly. It's, it's, you know,it's very tough to hold a job,
(04:36):
you know, very tough to, youknow, show up to family events.
I'm the guy that, like, missesChristmas because my dealer
doesn't hit me back in time. AndI'm like, you know, waiting to
show up to a family event. I'mwaiting on my dealer. You know,
my entire life had kind ofbecome, you know, the sequence
of it was okay once I, like, getright with my dealer, then I
(04:57):
can, can go to the grocery storewith my grandma. Or, you know,
go spend time with my family, orgo hang out with my girl, or
whatever that looks like. It'slike, the drugs always came
first, dude.
I so relate to that. Like, Iremember, especially towards the
end of the addict, well, not theend, end, but like when I would
hold a job, like, I remember,I'd have to smoke meth before a
(05:18):
zoom call, like, you know, andI'd be so psyched out about
like, this call I got at 11o'clock, and I'm thinking I'm
having, like, I start my daywith a coffee, you know, have a
coffee and some cereal, and thenI'd be thinking, I got two hours
at zoom call, and I'd have toget fucking suited just to take
a call with my accountant orsomething. Just basic life
functions had to be loaded fortotally, like, ridiculous, yeah,
(05:43):
I can't, I can't agree or relatemore. Yeah, that being said,
like me, me basically, likehaving to, you know, I became
like, super attached to thesedrugs and alcohol. Like I was
always, like a partier, but Ithink at a certain point I just
kind of like, signed away in mylife to this, these substances,
you know, I basically, like, wasone to go in and out of, you
(06:06):
know, I was thinking about, Iwas driving over here. I was
from, you know, from the westside, about 20 minute drive. So
I was thinking about, like, huh,like, what did, what did my
like, recovery look like before,like, actually getting sober.
And a lot of my experience withtreatment centers and detoxes
and hospital detoxes and allthat kind of stuff was, you
(06:27):
know, I go in there, I don'treally have an awakening
experience. I don't it was, itwas, you know, more. So just
okay. I just got to, kind of,like, let the dust settle from
like, what the past three, sixmonths have looked like, and I'd
be in in detox, and, you know,I'm on, you know, you get your
phone calls, and I'm calling mymy buddies. And my buddies are
(06:48):
drug dealers, right? So, like,my, my buddies that I'm hanging
out with are the guys that areselling me the dope in the first
place. And so I have one, onedrug dealer, who's, he was an
Army vet, and we like shootingguns. We like playing paintball,
like all these things that wedid when we were younger, we
would always talk about it whenwe're getting high. We're like,
(07:08):
oh, like, next week, like, let'sgo play paintball. Like, that
would be so much fun andwholesome. The plans we make
when we're getting high, exactlyso good. And so I'm in detox,
and I'm like, Hey bro, like, youknow, I'm sober. Like, this is
great. I feel awesome. I'm like,three days into a suboxone
taper, you know, and I'm like,I'm sober, like, this is the way
(07:30):
of life. And you know, when Iget out of here, like, let's go
play paintball, because we'vealways talked about it. And,
like, now I'm in a positionwhere, like, I can play
paintball, and I can save up 50bucks, and we can go out there
and have a blast. And in myhead, I firmly believe, like,
Hey, we're gonna go playpaintball. I get out of detox. I
go to his house. He's serving acouple people. And eventually,
(07:52):
after like, three hours of like,watching him, like, serve people
in and out of his his house, I'mlike, All right. Like, you know,
let me, let me get some. Youknow, enough's enough. Like,
let's stop fucking around andand, like, that was my
experience where my buddy wouldpick me up. He's like, Oh, it's
gonna be great. Like, I'm gladyou're sober, like, or I'm glad
you got all that, that bad shitout of your system. We're gonna
go to this party tonight. It'sgonna be lit, and then it's
(08:14):
like, oh, I go and I drink, andthen I smoke bud, and then I eat
a Xanax, and then I sniff someblow, and then I'm up till 8am
and now I gotta go to sleep. AndI'm not gonna be able to go to
sleep because I'm all yaked upon blow, and I need to come
down. So then that's the 8amphone call to the dealer. I go
cop dope, I get to sleep, and Iwake up, and the cycle begins
(08:36):
again. So like, that's myexperience with recovery,
alcoholism, drug addiction, likeit all moves really fast for me,
and I might not, you know, forme, it's just I drink two beers.
I don't even need to get drunk.
And I need to know where thestuff that I like, really love
is at. You know? Yeah, so I itwas a snowstorm in Washington,
DC and DMV area, DC, Maryland,Virginia, and I was actually
(09:02):
plowing roads, and I I wasgetting high while I was doing
it worked out really well. I waswaiting on like a $500 check,
which, at the time was like abig deal. And I get a phone call
from a buddy I used to get highwith, and he was out in
California, and he was kind oftelling me, like, Hey, man,
(09:24):
like, I know you're still doingthe same shit. Like, there's a
really dope life available foryou if you're willing to, like,
jump on a plane and come outhere and do what I did, you
know? And I was, I thought hewas, like, scamming me. I was
like, bro, what's in? What's,what's the, what's the catch
here, you know? And if you justsell 10 of these books, yeah,
exactly, exactly, somethingfunky. And basically, my mom's
(09:48):
friend called me, like, rightafter, I was like, Thank you.
You know, his name's John. I waslike, Thank you, John. Like, I
appreciate you, bro. But like,I'm good man. I'm once a box,
and you. Yeah, everything'sfine. I'm working this gig with
the snow plows. I got, I got aplan. You know, we all got plans
when we're when we're out andabout. And my mom's friend
(10:08):
called me, and she was like, Iknow you're not talking to your
mom right now. I will buy yourplane ticket. My son's out there
also, along with John, he'ssober. You know, you guys are
all cut from the same cloth,which we were, that was an
accurate statement. Like weboth, we all got high together.
We all got high the same way.
And I was like, thank you. I'mgood. I appreciate all your guys
(10:33):
concern, but I'm fine. You know,I'm in my head. I'm like, I'm
about to get a $500 check. Like,I'm gonna be chilling for like,
I'll figure out how long that'lllast. Realistically, it would
have lasted one day. Butit's amazing the excuses we
make. I just want to bring thisbrings up. You just triggered
something in me that Chris andI, we have to go to this IOP
right as part of our exitprogram here, and we have to do,
(10:54):
like, an hour a week, and it'sfull of all the people that
really need to be here. And it'samazing how people like, oh,
when you when you're like, dude,this guy can't stop using he
needs to go to residential andthey suddenly go, I couldn't
possibly, you know, leave my jobat Home Depot, you know, I
couldn't possibly leave my jobat Trader Joe's. And I'm like,
Do you know how good your lifecould be? You know what? I mean,
(11:16):
they really hold on. I mean,obviously they're not holding on
to it. But like, the excuses wemake, like, I'm good, I'm
plowing snow in, like, negative10, like things are good right
now, totally, you know? I mean,like any fucking excuse to not
dowhat needs to be done, totally.
It's like, my mind can'tconceptualize a bigger and,
(11:38):
like, more beautiful life thanjust something so minuscule and
so so small from, like, what Iknow I'm, what I think that I'm
capable of doing. And, you know,when I got off the phone with
Miss, with with my mom's friend,I just started crying, you know,
and maybe, like, 30 seconds ofjust kind of like sobbing
(12:00):
uncontrollably. And I'm, youknow, I'm not like a big crier,
so when I cry, I be crying, youknow, like, I'm like, I'm
letting it go. And my boy, Johncalls me again, and he's like,
let's do this. And I just thatmoment hit me, like, this is
where God comes into play forme, where he's just like, you
know, against your bestthinking, like it's almost like
(12:21):
he said it for me, or like, Godsaid it for me. Was just like,
all right, but I got to go now,you know, because if I get this
check, I don't know what it'sgoing to look like, and boom,
that's when I jumped on theplane. Oh, wow. And my life was
about to take a turn that I wasnot prepared for or thought was
possible. And I wound up in LosAngeles, and I met some guys
(12:42):
that I think the coolest part,you know, we talk about, like,
attraction rather than promotionaround here. And I think what
was cool is, I'm a sales guy,you know, like, if I hear a good
pitch, I'm like, Oh, I respectthe pitch, but it's a pitch, you
know, like I hear it. And Ithink we live in a world, in a
world of the material wherethere's, like, this energy of,
(13:03):
like, there's an angle here,there's a financial motive.
What's this gonna cost me?
What's this gonna cost me? Yeah,or what do I have to sacrifice
in order for this to be theresult? And I think what was
beautiful about my experiencehere was these guys didn't want
anything from me, you know, andthese guys were like, hey, like,
this is what we do. And theywere cool dudes. They were dudes
(13:23):
that, like, I would kick itwith, like, guys that I would
hang out with, because I comeinto here super judgmental. I'm
like, I don't want what any ofyou guys have. You know, you
guys are freaking me out withthe hand holding and the prayers
and the hugging and like, that'sjust never been my vibe. And
it's not about to start rightnow. But I think what was cool
is, like, these guys that weredoing music and that were
surfing and that were doing artand, like, doing all these
(13:44):
things that, like, I was reallylike, Damn, you guys got some,
some cool stuff going on. Like,that's where the attraction took
place. And I was like, Iremember I was, I was at a
meeting one time, and I heardthis guy sharing, and he was
like, I have to find something.
There was, there was a line. Hesaid, I wasn't paying attention
to the to what he was sharing. Iwas actually there was a girl in
(14:07):
the meeting that, like, I wouldsee, you know, when you're in
rehab, you you don't have aphone, you know, we're, like,
going to these meetings. And soI met this girl, like, two weeks
prior, and I would only see her,and I only get like, 15 minutes
during the break to, like, spitgame at her, right? And so,
like, I'm thinking about whatI'm gonna say to this girl at
the break of this meeting. I'mnot listening to the speaker,
and all of a sudden I just hearthis guy say, I need to find
(14:31):
something that produces a bettereffect than drugs and alcohol
do, or I'm fucking leaving. AndI found that here. And I was
like, Huh, that's some shit I'venever heard before, because I'll
go to rehab. We'll we'll go totherapy. I'll open my heart up.
We'll paint some shit in artclass. We'll do some rocks.
Yeah, we'll do all this stuff.
We'll talk about all this stuff.
(14:53):
And the reality of it is, islike, when they talk about,
like, I need to hear a messageof depth and weight, like, I
heard that, and I heard it.
What? Team in quarters, like Iheard it against my will, you
know, like I wasn't listening, Iwasn't looking, I wasn't
seeking. And these are startingto be the experiences where I'm
just like, okay, somethingpowerful is happening here, and
I have no idea what's going on,but I'm here for it. And I ran
up to this dude, and I was like,I just want to, I just want to
(15:17):
hang out with you, you know. Andlike, that was me. Like, you
know that, you know, people talkabout, like, oh, you need to,
like, get vulnerable and, like,ask for help. And like, not
that. Like, I've never been oneof those dudes like, oh, I don't
ask for help. Well, like, no.
Like, I usually am the type ofguy that, like, I want to know
how to get to the place that Iwant to be. So, like, I'm fine
asking for help. But I came upto this guy so humbly, and was
(15:40):
just like, I just want to beyour friend. And before I knew
it, you had mentioned about,like, my knowledge of the book,
and I found that spending timewith these guys, it was these
two guys named Jack and Jamie,and we would go to this book
study at their house. And, Imean, we went line by line, and
(16:00):
you have like, 25 dudes in therethat are just talking about God
in the book and the steps, andwe're just like, all, it's cool,
because we are all just likehaving this experience together.
You know, there was no guys inthat room with 25 years sober.
It was, it was guys in the roomwith 234, years sober, just on
fire.
(16:20):
Yeah, and the way you can, I youbring up a really great point
that, like I really, I reallybelieve that you can relate to
somebody with a week more timethan you, so much better than
you can with someone 30 moreyears than you, right? And that,
that, that the community thatyou need to build is, I don't
think we talk about it enough,to be honest, but it's
(16:41):
essential. Like, it's essentialto, like, want to be part of
something totally it's notenough. To just want to be
sober, it's not enough. Yeah,I want to find my crew. Yeah,
you know, I want to find mypeople. I want to, I want to
find people that, like, I canconnect with on, you know, I
want to identify with them, youknow. I want to, like, know,
like, Hey, you suffer from whatI suffer from. I want to see the
hope behind it. Like, Oh, you,you, you made it to the other
(17:03):
side. You're living a lifesober. Not only are you living a
life sober, but you're fuckinghappy. You know, that's
something I need to hear too.
Like, that's the stuff that,like, instills hope in me, where
it's just like, living a lifesober does not sound interesting
to me, you know. And like, nowI'm looking back, I'm nine years
sober, and I'm looking back, andI'm just like, you can't,
there's not a, there's not $1amount that you could pay me to
(17:25):
go drink alcohol right now, youknow? And I'm gonna do that
like, I rob. I rob from my mom,you know, like I, I'm the type
that, like, takes my mom'scheckbook, writes out, you know,
whatever I need deposit into thebank. I'm not even allowed to
open up a Wells Fargo checkingor a bank account. I can't even,
I don't even think I'm allowedto step foot in. Wells Fargo, to
be honest. But that's my, youknow, I was always like, it's a
(17:51):
money thing for me. Like, if Iget a certain amount of money,
I'm gonna leave sobriety, huh?
That's interesting. And I've hadthe opportunity where, like,
I've had the experience of,like, working, grinding, making
a little bit of money, and beinglike, I'm so good here, like,
I'm so good here. I think Ipersonally believe that, like, I
have the dopest life I couldhave ever imagined, you know,
(18:12):
and I'm not doing crazy shit,I'm not flying all over the
world in private jets, but Ijust, I'm so grateful and happy
that, like, my family's back inmy life, that I have all these
really awesome friends in mylife today, like my life is
filled with purpose. Today, Isponsor people. I, you know, I'm
available for people and likeI'm not. I don't want to trade
that. You know, I'm so clear onwhat it is that I suffer from
(18:34):
that, like, there is no like, Idon't. I no longer suffer from
the delusion that, like, I canfigure it out, nor do I want to
figure it out and be a Normie,because that's always like, the
thing, right? It's like, it'slike, Oh, I wish I wasn't a drug
addict. Oh, I wish I didn't likeheroin and cocaine and all these
things that like are detrimentalto my life. I wish I could just
like, you know, before I gotsober, it was like, I just wish
(18:55):
I could just like, drink, likecertain family members of mine
that like, have fun and go outand go to concerts and do cool
shit, and then wake up Mondaymorning, grind until Friday, and
then drink and Bob and, like, Idon't want that. No, I like
being authentically myselfsober. 24/7
I love that. Yeah, I thinkthat's super important. And,
(19:17):
like, the cliche, like, now I'mgetting a little bit of time,
is, and this is the one thingthat when you cut one my overall
opinion of time, I know peopledon't say it's important. Try
telling that to someone like mewho couldn't get time. Time's
fucking important for me. Timeis important. I'm fucking proud
of the time I have right becauseI could, you knew me, I couldn't
get couldn't get it. But thatwhole idea that even now, with
(19:41):
just 13 months, if I had made alist of all the things I wanted,
I would have sold myself short.
My list was so simple. It wouldhave been like a pair of
sneakers. It would have beenlike enough money for cigarettes
like and I've gone so muchfucking more that, yeah, my.
Feel like today my life isperfect where it's at. I mean, I
still want to do things andexperience things, but, like, I
(20:04):
think when you've been a drugaddict for so long, I think the
first thing to go is yourconfidence, right? And my
ability to dream big was notavailable. And so now I'm, like,
trying to actually figure outthe things I want to do, like my
dreams, like I put together,it's kind of dumb, but I put
together these lists of things Iwant, and I keep them on my wall
near my bed, and so I just seethem every day. And I realized
yesterday, I was like, this listis too fucking small. This is
(20:25):
too fucking small. I'm so I'mcapable of so much fucking more.
But then I also really like,where I'm at. You know, all I
wanted was a break. All I wantedwas to not be a piece of shit
for a day. I didn't wanna haveto lie to get loaded. I didn't
wanna have to, like, skip out onmy baby mom. I wanted real
(20:45):
simple, like, common I wantedjust common decency. Like I was
so over living like a piece ofshit. And I've got so much more,
so much more. It's crazy howthis shit works. It's funny how
you said attraction rather thanpromotion. I was thinking about
this. I think as the world kindof changes with podcasts and
that we can talk about this shitmore, I think it's now
(21:08):
attractive promotion. I thinkit's kind of important to talk
about this shit. Now we're kindof getting at a point, in a way,
where people, you remember, likefive years ago, people weren't
talking about AI, and it'schanging. I think it has to,
yeah, I you know, I understandthere's some values behind that,
but,I mean, A's not to cut you off,
but an interesting place, it'slike, you know, you go watch
(21:30):
drugs Inc, you know, they open,they have their like opener
where it's like, you know, theythrow some text on there in the
opening scene. It's like, 8% ofdrug addicts stay sober, and
you're like, what the fuck I'mnot 8% you know, like, I'm the
other 92% Yeah, I ain't about tomake it out here. And, you know,
I think, you know, there's,there's a, there's a part in the
(21:53):
in the Fords, in the big book,where it talks about, like,
damn, I wish I had my big bookon me, because I can't recite
it.
Recite it, get it out. Yeah,yeah, it's gonna pass your copy.
Can I pull can i Yeah, let's doit. Let
me look addition, yeah, okay. Ofalcoholics who came to AAA and
(22:14):
really tried. 50% got sober atonce and remained that way. 25%
sobered up after some relapses,and among the remainder, those
who stayed on with AA showedimprovement. So I hear those
numbers, and I'm I'm like, Whatthe fuck is drugs Inc talking
about when there's thisfellowship, this altruistic
(22:36):
movement, talking way betternumbers, you know? And that's
why I think somebody like DrSilkworth. Dr Silkworth is the
doctor that basically wrote aletter to Alcoholics Anonymous,
talking about, like the physicalallergy, talking about the
basically like as a physicianthat specializes in drug and
alcohol treatment, we have todoctors have to be honest with
(22:59):
ourselves that we are inadequatewhen it comes to helping the
real one. You know, the guy thatcan't keep a needle out out of
his arm, the guy that, no matterhow many treatment centers he
goes to, it's not sufficientenough for long term sobriety,
and that's a big deal. Thisdude, his career is about
getting paid at a hospital tohelp drug and alcohol treatment
(23:24):
or to tell alcoholics and drugaddicts, and he's writing a
letter to this movement thatdoesn't pay him money for this.
And he's like, these guys havefound something really cool, and
people are staying sober. That'sa big deal to me. Like, I hear
something like these words inthis book is powerful to me, you
know? And I hear something likethat, and I'm like, damn,
they're, you know, we gotsomething. We got a movement out
(23:44):
here. Yeah, you know. And Ithink that, like, you know,
also, when it talks about, like,rarely have we seen a person
fail, it's like, I've been I'vebeen sober, I've been in the
rooms of AAA for not a littleover nine years. Like, rarely
have I seen a person fail. Host,thoroughly followed this path.
It's like people that really aredoing this, people that that get
clear on what it is they sufferfrom, people that turn their
(24:05):
their will in their lives overthe care of God as they
understand them, people that gothrough inventory, people that
prey on character defects,people that make all their
amends, people that are doingprayer meditation and then
turning around and then givingthat back to other people that
are struggling. It's like thosepeople are staying sober. Yeah,
those people are staying sober.
It's like, it's not thatcomplicated. I'm not I'm
uneducated. I didn't go tocollege, right? I just followed
what I was told to do. And Iread this book with somebody,
(24:29):
and I got a really clearunderstanding of what this book
talks about. And my lifechanged, you know? And I don't
get even even, like this pitchright here. It's like, I don't
get paid to say this, like thisalcoholic anonymous doesn't pay
me. I don't know if I'm allowedto say that, but yeah, they
don't pay me to talk about this.
This isn't the church. This issomething for me that it's like
(24:52):
the fact that it's an altruisticmovement, and the fact that
there's, there's an entireabsence of profit motive, that's
where God comes into play. Forme. You know, that's where I'm
like, Okay, this is a placewhere it's safe for God to come
in and take people and pullchronic alcoholics from the
gates of death and show them abeautiful life. Like, where else
are they doing that shit?
And for free, for free. What?
Yeah, you fucking what? You'refree. Yeah. Shits fucking
(25:15):
amazing. Yeah. It's fuckingamazing. You just made me think
of something I don't know howrelevant is to that. That was is
to that. That was amazing, bythe way. I'm so glad you. You
it's, I don't do enough talkingon here about the book, but I'm
going to put some links downbelow so people can check out,
and they can get the book onlineif they want to read it. And you
can also, obviously go pick itup at your local aming. It's
(25:36):
probably a better place to go doit. But I just thought of
something was really funny. Iremember when the I remember, I
went to see a hypnotist in thevalley to stop smoking crack,
right? So, and, like, the firstthing she said was to me, was,
oh yeah, aa, doesn't work. And Ionly just realized when you were
(25:59):
talking about your experience,how that probably really
affected me, because then I had,like, a real, really early on,
before I'd really discovered AA,I had already been told by a
doctor who charged me 500 bucksa session, which didn't work,
that aa was never gonna work.
Wow, I have not thought aboutthat for a minute. So, do you
(26:21):
have any other ailments, anyother things you work on, any
other programs? Me, yeah, yeah,yeah. How's that going? Yeah,
um, talking about slow now,right? Yeah, yeah,
we get we Yeah, so, slaw is aninteresting one for me. Um, so
whack a mole, right? Yeah, yeah.
Slaw is an interesting one forme. I'm, I guess I'm a, you
know, I'm a member of AA. I'mlike, you know, I feel like I'm
(26:45):
uniquely qualified to helpothers in Alcoholics Anonymous
and like, I found a home there,I found a higher power there, I
found a community there. Slaw isdifferent for me, so slaw is one
of those things where I'd sayI'm more of a tourist, and slaw,
(27:05):
there's like a fear of gettinghealthy around my my sex and
love addiction. You know, forme, I think it's less on the
side of this is kind of like,what's, what's been opening up
for me is it's less on the sexside of things and more so like,
like, my heart gets involved,you know, and like, I, you know,
(27:28):
I get really, we'll just gothere. I get, I get, I get
really co dependent. I like, Iget involved with a woman. And,
you know, before I even talkedto her, I'm like, this could be
my wife one day. Oh, bro,I've married fucking 100 people
this week. In my head, what areyou talking about? Yeah,
(27:51):
yeah, yeah. And I think thatwhen it comes to slaw,
specifically, just like, a like,I need to have the same desire
to get sober and I need, and Iguess in my head, the way I
justify not really fullyengaging myself in slaw is like,
(28:11):
well, I don't think that, like Ihave the same level of
desperation, right the way I dowith with drugs and alcohol. I
don't, I don't flatline frombeing in love with a guy, feel
worse, you know, but like, Idon't, I don't flatline. So I'm
like, I don't need to takeextreme measures to get healthy
(28:32):
around my, let's, you know,around my slaw stuff, the same
way I would with AlcoholicsAnonymous, because when I'm when
I'm when I'm trying to get soberafter working an eight hour day
in a kitchen at a fucking deli,and my sponsors, like you, need
to make sure you get your ass tothis meeting at 730 where I have
a cleanup commitment. I'm ridingmy bike six miles. And, you
(28:55):
know, with 20 minutes to catchthis meeting on time and like,
I'm gonna, I'm gonna do thatbike ride, because my life
depends on it, right? With slawsa little different. So it's been
a little trickier for me toreally, like latch on to the
slaw program the way I do aI know, but let's talk about a
minute. I actually really relateto that, and I'm glad you
brought it up as a tourist,because I feel like a tourist in
(29:16):
slaw. But here's the reality forme, and this is just my
experience. Since I've startedto practice these principles in
all my affairs, having sufferedfrom both without any solution,
now I really practice theprinciples in all my affairs of
AA, my slow stuff comes out indifferent areas. Again, it's
definitely it used to be a lotmore sex driven. It's definitely
(29:37):
now more caught, more COdependent, driven. And, you
know, I say it all the time. Isaid it to Chris this morning. I
said the cruelest thing Appleever invented was those three
fucking dots of like, whensomeone's typing back a message
and it doesn't write, God, holyshit. Why? Like, whose fucking
idea was that? Who thought I gota good idea? I'm just gonna fuck
(29:57):
we're gonna. Create this thing,and we're going to give people a
fucking heart attack seven timesa day, because some broad is
like texting me back, and thenthe text message doesn't come
in. Are you disappeared?
Disappear and your heart justsinks. So now for the next 24
hours, I'mgoing to think about what did
you want to say? What were yousaying? What were you going to
write? What did you decide towrite out? You wrote it out,
(30:19):
then you delete it, and then youdidn't send it. Yeah, like, I
actuallyheard something funny. There's,
there's a girl I was, I wastalking to, and she was all she
tells me, she she puts hershe'll, like, write out a text
in the Notes app and then copyand paste it when she's done, so
she can, like, construct itproperly without somebody seeing
(30:39):
the typing going down. Oh,that's kind of genius. That's
genius. Yeah, toxic, I don'tknow, yeah. Oh, very
manipulative. Yeah, exactly. Youjust don't see any typing and
boom, you get hit with pages.
How the fuck did that happen?
Yeah, that's good, though. But Ilike to talk about it too,
(31:00):
because look, as we get soberand as we address the initial
issue, things come up, and weneed to work on them. And I
like, you know, again, I feellike you like, I am a tourist in
slow I don't work slow steps.
Me, personally, I do get a lotfrom going to meetings. I get a
lot from talking to brotherslike you. But like for me, it is
different. It's like for me. Andlook, I also believe that people
(31:20):
can die in slow right? I thinkthat's, that's that's evident,
but for me, slow is like amaintenance program. It just
aligns me a little bit better.
I'm still going to act outwacky, I'm still going to have
impulses, but it's somethingthat I want to work on. And in a
strange way, to me, circlingback to your attraction rather
promotion, I get a lot moreattraction, rather than
(31:42):
promotion from my slow people.
It's like, I want to be a betterman. How do I become the man on
the screen that I want to be?
That's what I get from slaw.
Yeah,you know what I'm thinking about
as you're sharing, and what I'mthinking about is like slaws
kind of created this awarenessfor me that I didn't
necessarily, that I was kind ofunable to possess prior, I guess
you could say where now I amaware of of these certain
(32:06):
behaviors, where, like, Hey, Idon't really, like, feel good
when I'm, like, manipulative ordishonest around my relationship
conduct, you know, and that'sthat's been kind of cool. Where,
like, there has been growth,even though, like, I haven't
emerged myself in the program,there has been growth just from
the awareness, totally, I willsay totally.
(32:27):
But I would have never havelearned about slower if I didn't
start going to AA. You know,it's like, there is a there is a
solution for a lot of problems.
Yeah, should we talk aboutgambling? Oh, yeah, let's talk
about gambling. Okay, how's thatfor you?
I've never stepped into agambling Anonymous meeting. But
I have, I have battled with somesome gambling stuff over, over
(32:50):
the course of my sobriety, I wasa frequent flyer to Las Vegas,
Nevada, yeah, I'm not allowedback there, but yeah, to the
point where, like, I would havesomebody that would, hey, you
know, we have these, you know,we have this tower suite
awaiting for you free of charge.
And you're just like, what freeof charge this first time? Like,
what free of charge? What agreat deal go lose six grand.
(33:12):
How the fuck you know, like thatwould. It's like, these kinds of
experiences. And, you know, Igot, I got, like, really into
poker, where I was playing pokerevery night of the week, and I
could, I could justify it by thethe ambiance or the friendships
that I created in thatenvironment, my quote, unquote
friendships, you know. So thathad to be something to where I
(33:34):
had to realize, like, Hey, thisis not good. This is not like
for some reason. Okay, I comefrom the suburbs of Northern
Virginia. I come from a goodfamily. I wind up in the
projects, copping drugs, right?
I, you know, I'm sober, I'mliving a good life. I'm in 12
(33:57):
step programs. I'm like, youknow, helping other people. And
I'm at a poker game every nighttill 3am you know, like engaging
with, really, like, no, no hate,but like I'm engaging with like
people that, like, I normallywould not kick it with, like
people that that hold differentvalues than I do right then I,
(34:19):
you know, be flying to Vegaswhen, like, it's probably not a
good idea for me to go to Vegasbecause, you know, I have
commitments in Los Angeles thatI need to be here for, and I
just like, you know, would catchmyself kind of, like,
prioritizing gambling over therest of my life. So it's funny,
it does become a game of Whack aMole, like you were talking
about, where, you know, littlethings do crop up, like, just
(34:40):
because we're sober, and justbecause we're like, walking this
path doesn't mean, like, theflashy things are gonna pop out
at us, and we're not gonna haveto, like, you know, burn our
hand on the stove and be like,Whoa. Like, you know, I need to,
I need to take a look at that,and I need to, like, make some
changes around that, you know. Ithink, I think the coolest thing
about my sobriety for me hasbeen i. You know, it's like, I
(35:02):
heard this guy sharing one timehe was like, yeah, like, it's
one degree at a time, you know,and like, so over this course of
these nine years, it's likemaking many mistakes, and like
learning from them, and likegrowing. Because I do want to be
a better man, you know, I wantto be this guy. Like, I have
this vision of, like, what kindof it's funny my sponsor, he
(35:24):
says it like, he's like, Whatwould James Bond do? Yeah,
that's his. That's his thingthat, like, works for him. He's
like, What would abroad andleave if it's dead? Probably
he Yeah. Well, depending whatyou mean, yeah, what I'm saying
theleading man, what? And I think
of that too. I think of theleading man on the screen, like,
what would these? These, theidea of, like the perfect man,
or like the superstar, or thelike the guy with values. Like,
(35:45):
what would that guy do? Yeah,like,
unapologetically himself, andlike and like his moral compass.
Like, like, he doesn't veer offthe path. When it comes to his
moral compass, he's like, it'slike, This is who I am. This is
what I'm about. I'm going toexecute the mission. I'm going
to carry out the mission. And,like, I think the reason why
that's powerful for me isbecause that's, that's not
(36:06):
necessarily James Bond, but it'slike, that's what I want to be.
Like, I want to be, I want to bethis dude that, like, when I'm
not in the room, like, peopleare saying good things about me,
yeah, you know, because I wantto be somebody that, like,
people can count on, somebodythat that shows up, somebody
that's honest, somebody that,like, you know, is there to help
when people are in need. Like,that's really what I want. Like,
I want that to be my, my aura,you know, like, I want people to
(36:32):
feel that way about me when I'mnot in the room, not like, Oh,
this guy's, like, extremelyselfish. This guy's here for
himself. This guy, you know,it's like, no, like, I want to
be somebody that like people.
Want to be around I want to besomebody that helps others and
is unapologetically himself andis authentic. But
I would go with you to aGambler's Anonymous meeting if
you wanted a really good onehere Sunday night. So, you know,
(36:52):
maybe we can,let's just not shoot craps in
the parking lot. You know,yeah, they'd be stoked with
that. Yeah. Hey, we'll be rightback. But before we do, please
consider helping us grow thispodcast. You could do that a
number of different ways. Youcan hit follow on, Spotify, you
can rate us, review us. But whatwould be really awesome would be
if you could share this with oneother addict or alcoholic that
(37:13):
you think could get somethingout this podcast. If everyone
did that, we would grow thisthing tremendously. But as
always, thank you for listeningand thank you for your support.
All right, so we ask every guestthis, as we come to a close,
what would you say to littlePete today? If you could say
anything to him, give him somewords of wisdom, some
encouragement.
(37:34):
You got this.
You got this. And just likesilence the noise and keep it
moving.
Thanks for coming in, buddy.
Thanks for having me. Appreciateyou guys.
Ah, that's the sound of pink cloud coffee and their
(00:03):
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Pink cloud coffee is an awardwinning Coffee Company based in
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(00:25):
center in Los Angeles. Thispodcast does not reflect the
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AA or recovery as a whole, butyou'll find some useful links on
both if you'd like to find outmore information sicker than
others, touches on subjects andsituations that some listeners
might find offensive, or, Ifyou're lucky, triggering you
(00:45):
have been warned.
David Luke, David,Hi and welcome to sick and
(01:09):
others. The podcast brought toyou from within a residential
treatment center in SouthernCalifornia. Welcome back.
Welcome back. Welcome back.
Here's a reminder, if you'reloving what we're doing, if you
get something from this, yougotta follow us on Spotify. You
gotta like on YouTube. You gottado all the shit that I don't
actually really understand, butdo it. It helps us grow the
(01:32):
podcast and and maybe we canhelp some more people. And also,
if you're in the program, or youtalk to people in the program,
and you think some people mightget something from this. Share
it with them. That's all I'masking for. Okay, my guest today
is a good friend of mine fromthe meetings I go to. Pete,
welcome to the show. Thank youso much. I'm glad to be here,
dude. I'm so stoked to have youon the show. So Pete has seen my
(01:55):
rise, my full full full fullfull when he's seen my rise, and
there's a couple of things Ireally love about you. Your
knowledge of the book is dead.
You try to be fucking mental.
Your knowledge of the Book keepit in, just keep it rolling.
Your knowledge of the book isfucking great. And I love how
you talk about wanting to readwith new people all the time.
(02:16):
And that inspires me. So, havingsaid that, tell me about your
journey. Tell me about how yougot sober. So,
yeah, I'm just to also say,like, I'm really excited to be a
part of this. I have seen yourfall, fall, fall, fall, fall,
rise, and it always I guess.
What keeps this thing excitingfor me is seeing somebody like
(02:38):
you who, like, is a real one,you know, fall, fall, fall, and
then really get this thing and,like, immerse yourself in the
community, because you're alikable guy, and people have
always, like, kind of clung toyou. But like, watching you get
super involved and then have thetransition and be super
effective in the rooms has been,like, really cool to watch. So I
(03:01):
just want to, like, give youthat before I start going. Thank
you. That's, that's kind of thestuff that keeps me going. Um,
where does my recovery begin?
You can start from wherever youwant. I like to hear war
stories. You like tohear war stories? Yeah, I, uh, I
got sober at 22 I was reallylucky in the sense that my
addiction, I'm a heroin, crackcocaine user, and I think as
(03:26):
much as I hated that aboutmyself, really kind of opened
the floodgates to likeacknowledgement of I need help,
and I need it fast, you know,whereas I could have probably
continued on a journey ofblackout, drinking and sniffing
cocaine and popping Xanax everynow and then, last till I'm, you
(03:50):
know, 3540 years old before I'mlike, Oh, well, like, My life
sucks, you know. And like allthe people around me, you know,
that I grew up with are, like,living these really cool lives,
and I've just like, maintainedand just like existed until I'm
35 before I realized, like, Ihave no purpose. I have nothing
going on. And so I think thatone thing I'm really grateful
(04:12):
for about, you know, my drugs ofchoice was that, you know,
there's not many heroin addictsor, you know, crack smokers that
I know that are very functional,you know,
balance. They don't reallybalance it out there as well.
Yeah, yeah, either in or you'reout, yeah,
exactly. It's, it's, you know,it's very tough to hold a job,
(04:36):
you know, very tough to, youknow, show up to family events.
I'm the guy that, like, missesChristmas because my dealer
doesn't hit me back in time. AndI'm like, you know, waiting to
show up to a family event. I'mwaiting on my dealer. You know,
my entire life had kind ofbecome, you know, the sequence
of it was okay once I, like, getright with my dealer, then I
(04:57):
can, can go to the grocery storewith my grandma. Or, you know,
go spend time with my family, orgo hang out with my girl, or
whatever that looks like. It'slike, the drugs always came
first, dude.
I so relate to that. Like, Iremember, especially towards the
end of the addict, well, not theend, end, but like when I would
hold a job, like, I remember,I'd have to smoke meth before a
(05:18):
zoom call, like, you know, andI'd be so psyched out about
like, this call I got at 11o'clock, and I'm thinking I'm
having, like, I start my daywith a coffee, you know, have a
coffee and some cereal, and thenI'd be thinking, I got two hours
at zoom call, and I'd have toget fucking suited just to take
a call with my accountant orsomething. Just basic life
functions had to be loaded fortotally, like, ridiculous, yeah,
(05:43):
I can't, I can't agree or relatemore. Yeah, that being said,
like me, me basically, likehaving to, you know, I became
like, super attached to thesedrugs and alcohol. Like I was
always, like a partier, but Ithink at a certain point I just
kind of like, signed away in mylife to this, these substances,
you know, I basically, like, wasone to go in and out of, you
(06:06):
know, I was thinking about, Iwas driving over here. I was
from, you know, from the westside, about 20 minute drive. So
I was thinking about, like, huh,like, what did, what did my
like, recovery look like before,like, actually getting sober.
And a lot of my experience withtreatment centers and detoxes
and hospital detoxes and allthat kind of stuff was, you
(06:27):
know, I go in there, I don'treally have an awakening
experience. I don't it was, itwas, you know, more. So just
okay. I just got to, kind of,like, let the dust settle from
like, what the past three, sixmonths have looked like, and I'd
be in in detox, and, you know,I'm on, you know, you get your
phone calls, and I'm calling mymy buddies. And my buddies are
(06:48):
drug dealers, right? So, like,my, my buddies that I'm hanging
out with are the guys that areselling me the dope in the first
place. And so I have one, onedrug dealer, who's, he was an
Army vet, and we like shootingguns. We like playing paintball,
like all these things that wedid when we were younger, we
would always talk about it whenwe're getting high. We're like,
(07:08):
oh, like, next week, like, let'sgo play paintball. Like, that
would be so much fun andwholesome. The plans we make
when we're getting high, exactlyso good. And so I'm in detox,
and I'm like, Hey bro, like, youknow, I'm sober. Like, this is
great. I feel awesome. I'm like,three days into a suboxone
taper, you know, and I'm like,I'm sober, like, this is the way
(07:30):
of life. And you know, when Iget out of here, like, let's go
play paintball, because we'vealways talked about it. And,
like, now I'm in a positionwhere, like, I can play
paintball, and I can save up 50bucks, and we can go out there
and have a blast. And in myhead, I firmly believe, like,
Hey, we're gonna go playpaintball. I get out of detox. I
go to his house. He's serving acouple people. And eventually,
(07:52):
after like, three hours of like,watching him, like, serve people
in and out of his his house, I'mlike, All right. Like, you know,
let me, let me get some. Youknow, enough's enough. Like,
let's stop fucking around andand, like, that was my
experience where my buddy wouldpick me up. He's like, Oh, it's
gonna be great. Like, I'm gladyou're sober, like, or I'm glad
you got all that, that bad shitout of your system. We're gonna
go to this party tonight. It'sgonna be lit, and then it's
(08:14):
like, oh, I go and I drink, andthen I smoke bud, and then I eat
a Xanax, and then I sniff someblow, and then I'm up till 8am
and now I gotta go to sleep. AndI'm not gonna be able to go to
sleep because I'm all yaked upon blow, and I need to come
down. So then that's the 8amphone call to the dealer. I go
cop dope, I get to sleep, and Iwake up, and the cycle begins
(08:36):
again. So like, that's myexperience with recovery,
alcoholism, drug addiction, likeit all moves really fast for me,
and I might not, you know, forme, it's just I drink two beers.
I don't even need to get drunk.
And I need to know where thestuff that I like, really love
is at. You know? Yeah, so I itwas a snowstorm in Washington,
DC and DMV area, DC, Maryland,Virginia, and I was actually
(09:02):
plowing roads, and I I wasgetting high while I was doing
it worked out really well. I waswaiting on like a $500 check,
which, at the time was like abig deal. And I get a phone call
from a buddy I used to get highwith, and he was out in
California, and he was kind oftelling me, like, Hey, man,
(09:24):
like, I know you're still doingthe same shit. Like, there's a
really dope life available foryou if you're willing to, like,
jump on a plane and come outhere and do what I did, you
know? And I was, I thought hewas, like, scamming me. I was
like, bro, what's in? What's,what's the, what's the catch
here, you know? And if you justsell 10 of these books, yeah,
exactly, exactly, somethingfunky. And basically, my mom's
(09:48):
friend called me, like, rightafter, I was like, Thank you.
You know, his name's John. I waslike, Thank you, John. Like, I
appreciate you, bro. But like,I'm good man. I'm once a box,
and you. Yeah, everything'sfine. I'm working this gig with
the snow plows. I got, I got aplan. You know, we all got plans
when we're when we're out andabout. And my mom's friend
(10:08):
called me, and she was like, Iknow you're not talking to your
mom right now. I will buy yourplane ticket. My son's out there
also, along with John, he'ssober. You know, you guys are
all cut from the same cloth,which we were, that was an
accurate statement. Like weboth, we all got high together.
We all got high the same way.
And I was like, thank you. I'mgood. I appreciate all your guys
(10:33):
concern, but I'm fine. You know,I'm in my head. I'm like, I'm
about to get a $500 check. Like,I'm gonna be chilling for like,
I'll figure out how long that'lllast. Realistically, it would
have lasted one day. Butit's amazing the excuses we
make. I just want to bring thisbrings up. You just triggered
something in me that Chris andI, we have to go to this IOP
right as part of our exitprogram here, and we have to do,
(10:54):
like, an hour a week, and it'sfull of all the people that
really need to be here. And it'samazing how people like, oh,
when you when you're like, dude,this guy can't stop using he
needs to go to residential andthey suddenly go, I couldn't
possibly, you know, leave my jobat Home Depot, you know, I
couldn't possibly leave my jobat Trader Joe's. And I'm like,
Do you know how good your lifecould be? You know what? I mean,
(11:16):
they really hold on. I mean,obviously they're not holding on
to it. But like, the excuses wemake, like, I'm good, I'm
plowing snow in, like, negative10, like things are good right
now, totally, you know? I mean,like any fucking excuse to not
dowhat needs to be done, totally.
It's like, my mind can'tconceptualize a bigger and,
(11:38):
like, more beautiful life thanjust something so minuscule and
so so small from, like, what Iknow I'm, what I think that I'm
capable of doing. And, you know,when I got off the phone with
Miss, with with my mom's friend,I just started crying, you know,
and maybe, like, 30 seconds ofjust kind of like sobbing
(12:00):
uncontrollably. And I'm, youknow, I'm not like a big crier,
so when I cry, I be crying, youknow, like, I'm like, I'm
letting it go. And my boy, Johncalls me again, and he's like,
let's do this. And I just thatmoment hit me, like, this is
where God comes into play forme, where he's just like, you
know, against your bestthinking, like it's almost like
(12:21):
he said it for me, or like, Godsaid it for me. Was just like,
all right, but I got to go now,you know, because if I get this
check, I don't know what it'sgoing to look like, and boom,
that's when I jumped on theplane. Oh, wow. And my life was
about to take a turn that I wasnot prepared for or thought was
possible. And I wound up in LosAngeles, and I met some guys
(12:42):
that I think the coolest part,you know, we talk about, like,
attraction rather than promotionaround here. And I think what
was cool is, I'm a sales guy,you know, like, if I hear a good
pitch, I'm like, Oh, I respectthe pitch, but it's a pitch, you
know, like I hear it. And Ithink we live in a world, in a
world of the material wherethere's, like, this energy of,
(13:03):
like, there's an angle here,there's a financial motive.
What's this gonna cost me?
What's this gonna cost me? Yeah,or what do I have to sacrifice
in order for this to be theresult? And I think what was
beautiful about my experiencehere was these guys didn't want
anything from me, you know, andthese guys were like, hey, like,
this is what we do. And theywere cool dudes. They were dudes
(13:23):
that, like, I would kick itwith, like, guys that I would
hang out with, because I comeinto here super judgmental. I'm
like, I don't want what any ofyou guys have. You know, you
guys are freaking me out withthe hand holding and the prayers
and the hugging and like, that'sjust never been my vibe. And
it's not about to start rightnow. But I think what was cool
is, like, these guys that weredoing music and that were
surfing and that were doing artand, like, doing all these
(13:44):
things that, like, I was reallylike, Damn, you guys got some,
some cool stuff going on. Like,that's where the attraction took
place. And I was like, Iremember I was, I was at a
meeting one time, and I heardthis guy sharing, and he was
like, I have to find something.
There was, there was a line. Hesaid, I wasn't paying attention
to the to what he was sharing. Iwas actually there was a girl in
(14:07):
the meeting that, like, I wouldsee, you know, when you're in
rehab, you you don't have aphone, you know, we're, like,
going to these meetings. And soI met this girl, like, two weeks
prior, and I would only see her,and I only get like, 15 minutes
during the break to, like, spitgame at her, right? And so,
like, I'm thinking about whatI'm gonna say to this girl at
the break of this meeting. I'mnot listening to the speaker,
and all of a sudden I just hearthis guy say, I need to find
(14:31):
something that produces a bettereffect than drugs and alcohol
do, or I'm fucking leaving. AndI found that here. And I was
like, Huh, that's some shit I'venever heard before, because I'll
go to rehab. We'll we'll go totherapy. I'll open my heart up.
We'll paint some shit in artclass. We'll do some rocks.
Yeah, we'll do all this stuff.
We'll talk about all this stuff.
(14:53):
And the reality of it is, islike, when they talk about,
like, I need to hear a messageof depth and weight, like, I
heard that, and I heard it.
What? Team in quarters, like Iheard it against my will, you
know, like I wasn't listening, Iwasn't looking, I wasn't
seeking. And these are startingto be the experiences where I'm
just like, okay, somethingpowerful is happening here, and
I have no idea what's going on,but I'm here for it. And I ran
up to this dude, and I was like,I just want to, I just want to
(15:17):
hang out with you, you know. Andlike, that was me. Like, you
know that, you know, people talkabout, like, oh, you need to,
like, get vulnerable and, like,ask for help. And like, not
that. Like, I've never been oneof those dudes like, oh, I don't
ask for help. Well, like, no.
Like, I usually am the type ofguy that, like, I want to know
how to get to the place that Iwant to be. So, like, I'm fine
asking for help. But I came upto this guy so humbly, and was
(15:40):
just like, I just want to beyour friend. And before I knew
it, you had mentioned about,like, my knowledge of the book,
and I found that spending timewith these guys, it was these
two guys named Jack and Jamie,and we would go to this book
study at their house. And, Imean, we went line by line, and
(16:00):
you have like, 25 dudes in therethat are just talking about God
in the book and the steps, andwe're just like, all, it's cool,
because we are all just likehaving this experience together.
You know, there was no guys inthat room with 25 years sober.
It was, it was guys in the roomwith 234, years sober, just on
fire.
(16:20):
Yeah, and the way you can, I youbring up a really great point
that, like I really, I reallybelieve that you can relate to
somebody with a week more timethan you, so much better than
you can with someone 30 moreyears than you, right? And that,
that, that the community thatyou need to build is, I don't
think we talk about it enough,to be honest, but it's
(16:41):
essential. Like, it's essentialto, like, want to be part of
something totally it's notenough. To just want to be
sober, it's not enough. Yeah,I want to find my crew. Yeah,
you know, I want to find mypeople. I want to, I want to
find people that, like, I canconnect with on, you know, I
want to identify with them, youknow. I want to, like, know,
like, Hey, you suffer from whatI suffer from. I want to see the
hope behind it. Like, Oh, you,you, you made it to the other
(17:03):
side. You're living a lifesober. Not only are you living a
life sober, but you're fuckinghappy. You know, that's
something I need to hear too.
Like, that's the stuff that,like, instills hope in me, where
it's just like, living a lifesober does not sound interesting
to me, you know. And like, nowI'm looking back, I'm nine years
sober, and I'm looking back, andI'm just like, you can't,
there's not a, there's not $1amount that you could pay me to
(17:25):
go drink alcohol right now, youknow? And I'm gonna do that
like, I rob. I rob from my mom,you know, like I, I'm the type
that, like, takes my mom'scheckbook, writes out, you know,
whatever I need deposit into thebank. I'm not even allowed to
open up a Wells Fargo checkingor a bank account. I can't even,
I don't even think I'm allowedto step foot in. Wells Fargo, to
be honest. But that's my, youknow, I was always like, it's a
(17:51):
money thing for me. Like, if Iget a certain amount of money,
I'm gonna leave sobriety, huh?
That's interesting. And I've hadthe opportunity where, like,
I've had the experience of,like, working, grinding, making
a little bit of money, and beinglike, I'm so good here, like,
I'm so good here. I think Ipersonally believe that, like, I
have the dopest life I couldhave ever imagined, you know,
(18:12):
and I'm not doing crazy shit,I'm not flying all over the
world in private jets, but Ijust, I'm so grateful and happy
that, like, my family's back inmy life, that I have all these
really awesome friends in mylife today, like my life is
filled with purpose. Today, Isponsor people. I, you know, I'm
available for people and likeI'm not. I don't want to trade
that. You know, I'm so clear onwhat it is that I suffer from
(18:34):
that, like, there is no like, Idon't. I no longer suffer from
the delusion that, like, I canfigure it out, nor do I want to
figure it out and be a Normie,because that's always like, the
thing, right? It's like, it'slike, Oh, I wish I wasn't a drug
addict. Oh, I wish I didn't likeheroin and cocaine and all these
things that like are detrimentalto my life. I wish I could just
like, you know, before I gotsober, it was like, I just wish
(18:55):
I could just like, drink, likecertain family members of mine
that like, have fun and go outand go to concerts and do cool
shit, and then wake up Mondaymorning, grind until Friday, and
then drink and Bob and, like, Idon't want that. No, I like
being authentically myselfsober. 24/7
I love that. Yeah, I thinkthat's super important. And,
(19:17):
like, the cliche, like, now I'mgetting a little bit of time,
is, and this is the one thingthat when you cut one my overall
opinion of time, I know peopledon't say it's important. Try
telling that to someone like mewho couldn't get time. Time's
fucking important for me. Timeis important. I'm fucking proud
of the time I have right becauseI could, you knew me, I couldn't
get couldn't get it. But thatwhole idea that even now, with
(19:41):
just 13 months, if I had made alist of all the things I wanted,
I would have sold myself short.
My list was so simple. It wouldhave been like a pair of
sneakers. It would have beenlike enough money for cigarettes
like and I've gone so muchfucking more that, yeah, my.
Feel like today my life isperfect where it's at. I mean, I
still want to do things andexperience things, but, like, I
(20:04):
think when you've been a drugaddict for so long, I think the
first thing to go is yourconfidence, right? And my
ability to dream big was notavailable. And so now I'm, like,
trying to actually figure outthe things I want to do, like my
dreams, like I put together,it's kind of dumb, but I put
together these lists of things Iwant, and I keep them on my wall
near my bed, and so I just seethem every day. And I realized
yesterday, I was like, this listis too fucking small. This is
(20:25):
too fucking small. I'm so I'mcapable of so much fucking more.
But then I also really like,where I'm at. You know, all I
wanted was a break. All I wantedwas to not be a piece of shit
for a day. I didn't wanna haveto lie to get loaded. I didn't
wanna have to, like, skip out onmy baby mom. I wanted real
(20:45):
simple, like, common I wantedjust common decency. Like I was
so over living like a piece ofshit. And I've got so much more,
so much more. It's crazy howthis shit works. It's funny how
you said attraction rather thanpromotion. I was thinking about
this. I think as the world kindof changes with podcasts and
that we can talk about this shitmore, I think it's now
(21:08):
attractive promotion. I thinkit's kind of important to talk
about this shit. Now we're kindof getting at a point, in a way,
where people, you remember, likefive years ago, people weren't
talking about AI, and it'schanging. I think it has to,
yeah, I you know, I understandthere's some values behind that,
but,I mean, A's not to cut you off,
but an interesting place, it'slike, you know, you go watch
(21:30):
drugs Inc, you know, they open,they have their like opener
where it's like, you know, theythrow some text on there in the
opening scene. It's like, 8% ofdrug addicts stay sober, and
you're like, what the fuck I'mnot 8% you know, like, I'm the
other 92% Yeah, I ain't about tomake it out here. And, you know,
I think, you know, there's,there's a, there's a part in the
(21:53):
in the Fords, in the big book,where it talks about, like,
damn, I wish I had my big bookon me, because I can't recite
it.
Recite it, get it out. Yeah,yeah, it's gonna pass your copy.
Can I pull can i Yeah, let's doit. Let
me look addition, yeah, okay. Ofalcoholics who came to AAA and
(22:14):
really tried. 50% got sober atonce and remained that way. 25%
sobered up after some relapses,and among the remainder, those
who stayed on with AA showedimprovement. So I hear those
numbers, and I'm I'm like, Whatthe fuck is drugs Inc talking
about when there's thisfellowship, this altruistic
(22:36):
movement, talking way betternumbers, you know? And that's
why I think somebody like DrSilkworth. Dr Silkworth is the
doctor that basically wrote aletter to Alcoholics Anonymous,
talking about, like the physicalallergy, talking about the
basically like as a physicianthat specializes in drug and
alcohol treatment, we have todoctors have to be honest with
(22:59):
ourselves that we are inadequatewhen it comes to helping the
real one. You know, the guy thatcan't keep a needle out out of
his arm, the guy that, no matterhow many treatment centers he
goes to, it's not sufficientenough for long term sobriety,
and that's a big deal. Thisdude, his career is about
getting paid at a hospital tohelp drug and alcohol treatment
(23:24):
or to tell alcoholics and drugaddicts, and he's writing a
letter to this movement thatdoesn't pay him money for this.
And he's like, these guys havefound something really cool, and
people are staying sober. That'sa big deal to me. Like, I hear
something like these words inthis book is powerful to me, you
know? And I hear something likethat, and I'm like, damn,
they're, you know, we gotsomething. We got a movement out
(23:44):
here. Yeah, you know. And Ithink that, like, you know,
also, when it talks about, like,rarely have we seen a person
fail, it's like, I've been I'vebeen sober, I've been in the
rooms of AAA for not a littleover nine years. Like, rarely
have I seen a person fail. Host,thoroughly followed this path.
It's like people that really aredoing this, people that that get
clear on what it is they sufferfrom, people that turn their
(24:05):
their will in their lives overthe care of God as they
understand them, people that gothrough inventory, people that
prey on character defects,people that make all their
amends, people that are doingprayer meditation and then
turning around and then givingthat back to other people that
are struggling. It's like thosepeople are staying sober. Yeah,
those people are staying sober.
It's like, it's not thatcomplicated. I'm not I'm
uneducated. I didn't go tocollege, right? I just followed
what I was told to do. And Iread this book with somebody,
(24:29):
and I got a really clearunderstanding of what this book
talks about. And my lifechanged, you know? And I don't
get even even, like this pitchright here. It's like, I don't
get paid to say this, like thisalcoholic anonymous doesn't pay
me. I don't know if I'm allowedto say that, but yeah, they
don't pay me to talk about this.
This isn't the church. This issomething for me that it's like
(24:52):
the fact that it's an altruisticmovement, and the fact that
there's, there's an entireabsence of profit motive, that's
where God comes into play. Forme. You know, that's where I'm
like, Okay, this is a placewhere it's safe for God to come
in and take people and pullchronic alcoholics from the
gates of death and show them abeautiful life. Like, where else
are they doing that shit?
And for free, for free. What?
Yeah, you fucking what? You'refree. Yeah. Shits fucking
(25:15):
amazing. Yeah. It's fuckingamazing. You just made me think
of something I don't know howrelevant is to that. That was is
to that. That was amazing, bythe way. I'm so glad you. You
it's, I don't do enough talkingon here about the book, but I'm
going to put some links downbelow so people can check out,
and they can get the book onlineif they want to read it. And you
can also, obviously go pick itup at your local aming. It's
(25:36):
probably a better place to go doit. But I just thought of
something was really funny. Iremember when the I remember, I
went to see a hypnotist in thevalley to stop smoking crack,
right? So, and, like, the firstthing she said was to me, was,
oh yeah, aa, doesn't work. And Ionly just realized when you were
(25:59):
talking about your experience,how that probably really
affected me, because then I had,like, a real, really early on,
before I'd really discovered AA,I had already been told by a
doctor who charged me 500 bucksa session, which didn't work,
that aa was never gonna work.
Wow, I have not thought aboutthat for a minute. So, do you
(26:21):
have any other ailments, anyother things you work on, any
other programs? Me, yeah, yeah,yeah. How's that going? Yeah,
um, talking about slow now,right? Yeah, yeah,
we get we Yeah, so, slaw is aninteresting one for me. Um, so
whack a mole, right? Yeah, yeah.
Slaw is an interesting one forme. I'm, I guess I'm a, you
know, I'm a member of AA. I'mlike, you know, I feel like I'm
(26:45):
uniquely qualified to helpothers in Alcoholics Anonymous
and like, I found a home there,I found a higher power there, I
found a community there. Slaw isdifferent for me, so slaw is one
of those things where I'd sayI'm more of a tourist, and slaw,
(27:05):
there's like a fear of gettinghealthy around my my sex and
love addiction. You know, forme, I think it's less on the
side of this is kind of like,what's, what's been opening up
for me is it's less on the sexside of things and more so like,
like, my heart gets involved,you know, and like, I, you know,
(27:28):
I get really, we'll just gothere. I get, I get, I get
really co dependent. I like, Iget involved with a woman. And,
you know, before I even talkedto her, I'm like, this could be
my wife one day. Oh, bro,I've married fucking 100 people
this week. In my head, what areyou talking about? Yeah,
(27:51):
yeah, yeah. And I think thatwhen it comes to slaw,
specifically, just like, a like,I need to have the same desire
to get sober and I need, and Iguess in my head, the way I
justify not really fullyengaging myself in slaw is like,
(28:11):
well, I don't think that, like Ihave the same level of
desperation, right the way I dowith with drugs and alcohol. I
don't, I don't flatline frombeing in love with a guy, feel
worse, you know, but like, Idon't, I don't flatline. So I'm
like, I don't need to takeextreme measures to get healthy
(28:32):
around my, let's, you know,around my slaw stuff, the same
way I would with AlcoholicsAnonymous, because when I'm when
I'm when I'm trying to get soberafter working an eight hour day
in a kitchen at a fucking deli,and my sponsors, like you, need
to make sure you get your ass tothis meeting at 730 where I have
a cleanup commitment. I'm ridingmy bike six miles. And, you
(28:55):
know, with 20 minutes to catchthis meeting on time and like,
I'm gonna, I'm gonna do thatbike ride, because my life
depends on it, right? With slawsa little different. So it's been
a little trickier for me toreally, like latch on to the
slaw program the way I do aI know, but let's talk about a
minute. I actually really relateto that, and I'm glad you
brought it up as a tourist,because I feel like a tourist in
(29:16):
slaw. But here's the reality forme, and this is just my
experience. Since I've startedto practice these principles in
all my affairs, having sufferedfrom both without any solution,
now I really practice theprinciples in all my affairs of
AA, my slow stuff comes out indifferent areas. Again, it's
definitely it used to be a lotmore sex driven. It's definitely
(29:37):
now more caught, more COdependent, driven. And, you
know, I say it all the time. Isaid it to Chris this morning. I
said the cruelest thing Appleever invented was those three
fucking dots of like, whensomeone's typing back a message
and it doesn't write, God, holyshit. Why? Like, whose fucking
idea was that? Who thought I gota good idea? I'm just gonna fuck
(29:57):
we're gonna. Create this thing,and we're going to give people a
fucking heart attack seven timesa day, because some broad is
like texting me back, and thenthe text message doesn't come
in. Are you disappeared?
Disappear and your heart justsinks. So now for the next 24
hours, I'mgoing to think about what did
you want to say? What were yousaying? What were you going to
write? What did you decide towrite out? You wrote it out,
(30:19):
then you delete it, and then youdidn't send it. Yeah, like, I
actuallyheard something funny. There's,
there's a girl I was, I wastalking to, and she was all she
tells me, she she puts hershe'll, like, write out a text
in the Notes app and then copyand paste it when she's done, so
she can, like, construct itproperly without somebody seeing
(30:39):
the typing going down. Oh,that's kind of genius. That's
genius. Yeah, toxic, I don'tknow, yeah. Oh, very
manipulative. Yeah, exactly. Youjust don't see any typing and
boom, you get hit with pages.
How the fuck did that happen?
Yeah, that's good, though. But Ilike to talk about it too,
(31:00):
because look, as we get soberand as we address the initial
issue, things come up, and weneed to work on them. And I
like, you know, again, I feellike you like, I am a tourist in
slow I don't work slow steps.
Me, personally, I do get a lotfrom going to meetings. I get a
lot from talking to brotherslike you. But like for me, it is
different. It's like for me. Andlook, I also believe that people
(31:20):
can die in slow right? I thinkthat's, that's that's evident,
but for me, slow is like amaintenance program. It just
aligns me a little bit better.
I'm still going to act outwacky, I'm still going to have
impulses, but it's somethingthat I want to work on. And in a
strange way, to me, circlingback to your attraction rather
promotion, I get a lot moreattraction, rather than
(31:42):
promotion from my slow people.
It's like, I want to be a betterman. How do I become the man on
the screen that I want to be?
That's what I get from slaw.
Yeah,you know what I'm thinking about
as you're sharing, and what I'mthinking about is like slaws
kind of created this awarenessfor me that I didn't
necessarily, that I was kind ofunable to possess prior, I guess
you could say where now I amaware of of these certain
(32:06):
behaviors, where, like, Hey, Idon't really, like, feel good
when I'm, like, manipulative ordishonest around my relationship
conduct, you know, and that'sthat's been kind of cool. Where,
like, there has been growth,even though, like, I haven't
emerged myself in the program,there has been growth just from
the awareness, totally, I willsay totally.
(32:27):
But I would have never havelearned about slower if I didn't
start going to AA. You know,it's like, there is a there is a
solution for a lot of problems.
Yeah, should we talk aboutgambling? Oh, yeah, let's talk
about gambling. Okay, how's thatfor you?
I've never stepped into agambling Anonymous meeting. But
I have, I have battled with somesome gambling stuff over, over
(32:50):
the course of my sobriety, I wasa frequent flyer to Las Vegas,
Nevada, yeah, I'm not allowedback there, but yeah, to the
point where, like, I would havesomebody that would, hey, you
know, we have these, you know,we have this tower suite
awaiting for you free of charge.
And you're just like, what freeof charge this first time? Like,
what free of charge? What agreat deal go lose six grand.
(33:12):
How the fuck you know, like thatwould. It's like, these kinds of
experiences. And, you know, Igot, I got, like, really into
poker, where I was playing pokerevery night of the week, and I
could, I could justify it by thethe ambiance or the friendships
that I created in thatenvironment, my quote, unquote
friendships, you know. So thathad to be something to where I
(33:34):
had to realize, like, Hey, thisis not good. This is not like
for some reason. Okay, I comefrom the suburbs of Northern
Virginia. I come from a goodfamily. I wind up in the
projects, copping drugs, right?
I, you know, I'm sober, I'mliving a good life. I'm in 12
(33:57):
step programs. I'm like, youknow, helping other people. And
I'm at a poker game every nighttill 3am you know, like engaging
with, really, like, no, no hate,but like I'm engaging with like
people that, like, I normallywould not kick it with, like
people that that hold differentvalues than I do right then I,
(34:19):
you know, be flying to Vegaswhen, like, it's probably not a
good idea for me to go to Vegasbecause, you know, I have
commitments in Los Angeles thatI need to be here for, and I
just like, you know, would catchmyself kind of, like,
prioritizing gambling over therest of my life. So it's funny,
it does become a game of Whack aMole, like you were talking
about, where, you know, littlethings do crop up, like, just
(34:40):
because we're sober, and justbecause we're like, walking this
path doesn't mean, like, theflashy things are gonna pop out
at us, and we're not gonna haveto, like, you know, burn our
hand on the stove and be like,Whoa. Like, you know, I need to,
I need to take a look at that,and I need to, like, make some
changes around that, you know. Ithink, I think the coolest thing
about my sobriety for me hasbeen i. You know, it's like, I
(35:02):
heard this guy sharing one timehe was like, yeah, like, it's
one degree at a time, you know,and like, so over this course of
these nine years, it's likemaking many mistakes, and like
learning from them, and likegrowing. Because I do want to be
a better man, you know, I wantto be this guy. Like, I have
this vision of, like, what kindof it's funny my sponsor, he
(35:24):
says it like, he's like, Whatwould James Bond do? Yeah,
that's his. That's his thingthat, like, works for him. He's
like, What would abroad andleave if it's dead? Probably
he Yeah. Well, depending whatyou mean, yeah, what I'm saying
theleading man, what? And I think
of that too. I think of theleading man on the screen, like,
what would these? These, theidea of, like the perfect man,
or like the superstar, or thelike the guy with values. Like,
(35:45):
what would that guy do? Yeah,like,
unapologetically himself, andlike and like his moral compass.
Like, like, he doesn't veer offthe path. When it comes to his
moral compass, he's like, it'slike, This is who I am. This is
what I'm about. I'm going toexecute the mission. I'm going
to carry out the mission. And,like, I think the reason why
that's powerful for me isbecause that's, that's not
(36:06):
necessarily James Bond, but it'slike, that's what I want to be.
Like, I want to be, I want to bethis dude that, like, when I'm
not in the room, like, peopleare saying good things about me,
yeah, you know, because I wantto be somebody that, like,
people can count on, somebodythat that shows up, somebody
that's honest, somebody that,like, you know, is there to help
when people are in need. Like,that's really what I want. Like,
I want that to be my, my aura,you know, like, I want people to
(36:32):
feel that way about me when I'mnot in the room, not like, Oh,
this guy's, like, extremelyselfish. This guy's here for
himself. This guy, you know,it's like, no, like, I want to
be somebody that like people.
Want to be around I want to besomebody that helps others and
is unapologetically himself andis authentic. But
I would go with you to aGambler's Anonymous meeting if
you wanted a really good onehere Sunday night. So, you know,
(36:52):
maybe we can,let's just not shoot craps in
the parking lot. You know,yeah, they'd be stoked with
that. Yeah. Hey, we'll be rightback. But before we do, please
consider helping us grow thispodcast. You could do that a
number of different ways. Youcan hit follow on, Spotify, you
can rate us, review us. But whatwould be really awesome would be
if you could share this with oneother addict or alcoholic that
(37:13):
you think could get somethingout this podcast. If everyone
did that, we would grow thisthing tremendously. But as
always, thank you for listeningand thank you for your support.
All right, so we ask every guestthis, as we come to a close,
what would you say to littlePete today? If you could say
anything to him, give him somewords of wisdom, some
encouragement.
(37:34):
You got this.
You got this. And just likesilence the noise and keep it
moving.
Thanks for coming in, buddy.
Thanks for having me. Appreciateyou guys.
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