April 8, 2025 • 42 mins
Theren Raufmann is co-owner of Little Beach House, Venice. LBH is a men's sober living in Venice Beach with a strong emphasis on Community and Brotherhood.
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For more information on Beit T’Shuvah please go to www.beittshuvah.org.
For more information on the program of Alcoholics Anonymous go to www.aa.org.
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Episode Transcript
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Unknown (00:00):
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Pink cloud coffee is an awardwinning Coffee Company based in
Los Angeles with the primarypurpose of helping addicts and
alcoholics through scholarshipsand work programs. Sicker than
others, listeners get 10% offtheir first order. Go to pink
cloudcoffee.com and use promocode sick 10 for 10% off any
beans or merchandise sicker thanothers, is a podcast on the ups
and downs of recovery brought toyou from within a treatment
(00:25):
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views or opinions of beta shuvaor any of its subsidiary
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(00:45):
have been warned.
David Luke, gave it.
(01:09):
Hi and welcome to sicker thanothers. The podcast brought to
you from within an amazingTreatment Center in Los Angeles.
My guest today is a good friendof mine also threw me out of his
sober living, and it's just anall round, really important part
of West Side. Aa Theron, welcometo the show.
(01:31):
Thank you so much. I'm stoked tobe here.
It is crazy. It's crazy. Sograteful. I could get you one
you were you're on my list. AndI'm just like, I'm just, I love
it when things align. Man, thiswas like we were texting about a
buddy of ours this morning whoisn't doing so good. I think is
an understatement. Yeah,it's, it's hard to see, and we
see it a lot, obviously, right?
(01:52):
But when, when you see it tothat level where there's
homelessness and medical issuesdue to your homelessness because
of your drug use, that's when itstarts to get scary, yeah, you
know. And I, you know, I wasrandomly approached by him on my
bike. I was with my four yearold son riding bikes, you know,
in Venice on, like, a weekend,and the guy flags me down out of
a homeless encampment, and I'mlike, what, what is that you and
(02:15):
it was, like, it was really hardto see, and it was emotional,
like he was almost crying. I wasalmost crying talking to him,
and it was like, Yeah, I justIt's sad. So
well, that's why we were talkingabout maybe going to do a little
12 step. Call him, anyonedoesn't know a 12 step call it's
when you kind of nudge somebodythat needs the help that they so
obviously need. And, and I wasjust thinking about it before we
(02:38):
walked in here, the fact that heflagged you down and wanted to
talk when I'm in the good sideof using I'm not flagging
anybody down and I don't want totalk. So it's a good sign point
that maybe that's the best hecan do right now. The best he
can do is, is flag someone down.
Yeah, and he didn't need to flagyou down. No, he
(03:02):
didn't. You could have hid andbe like, right there he is. I
gotta hide. That's what I wouldhave done, like, for sure. Yeah.
So, um, yeah. So I'll get downhere. I just want to hear a bit
about your story and what you donow and and how you ended up,
how much, how many years do youhave now, seven, and how you got
seven years because you were areal one. Yeah, it was just a
(03:24):
long journey. Didn't get it yourfirst time, right? No, I was
trying to get sober since I was18 years old. I'm 33 now, about
to turn 34 next month, and Ijust had a long boat ride, up
and down and in and out andtrial and error, you know? And I
think, you know, I'm a primeexample of I've done everything
you shouldn't do in sobriety,and I've paid consequences for
(03:45):
that, and I've done a lot ofthings you should in sobriety to
get where I'm at today. And whenI say get where I'm at today, I
mean being able to have stablehousing for myself, stable
transportation and stableemployment, right? And also show
up as a friend, a dad, abrother, a son, you know, and an
employer, and you can even sayan employee, like all those
(04:09):
things right, that we that wewant or that we envision for
ourselves, in order to, youknow, in most of our minds, have
a successful Life, I feel like Ihave been able to get all those
things, you know. And success,to me is not necessarily
materialistic. It's like I said,like, Do you have a good group
of friends? Do you have a familyor people that love you? And are
(04:31):
you able to help and provide forothers, whether that's family,
your friends, or, you know, justbeing of service in general. And
I feel like I have been able toachieve those things. And, you
know, I thank God for that everyday. You know, I really try to
stay in gratitude. Andespecially nowadays, I'm really
big on, you know, looking atlike what I have instead of what
(04:53):
I don't have, right? And it'sreally easy for us in sobriety.
Well, just so. Sobriety or not,to get wrapped up in, like,
what, what I need, and more andmore and more, and, you know,
trying to accomplish and striveto be successful in so many
different areas of life. And Ithink if you're able to just be
(05:14):
really present and be like,happy with what you have in the
moment, and also willing to giveit away. You will, you know, get
more, yeah, and you will achievemore. I'm a big believer in
that. Soit's, it's amazing that it took
a long time for me to realize,but I really, I do love it when
people share about, if you dowhat's outlined, and you do do
(05:34):
what's highly suggested, andhelp other people, and you're
really in it, you're an activemember of the community, let's
just say whether that's acommunity of AA, or whether
that's a sober living communityor a community, if you are a
member of a community and you'reliving by the principles, I
haven't seen many people getloaded when they're doing
(05:54):
everything. Yeah, correct,right. Agreed. It's kind of
crazy, but I've seen a lot ofpeople get loaded if they miss
something, and that might befucking not going to your
meetings, or not reading withother people, or whatever that
is. And it's like, for me, Ialso really understand now,
like, the idea of, I don't knowwhat works, but what is working
(06:16):
is like, it is working. So Idon't stop doing any of these
things, even though, like, Idon't necessarily want to read
with somebody this week, or Idon't want to fucking pick up
the guys to take them to themeeting, like, correct, you
know, yesterday I couldn't go toone of my regular meetings. And
like, old me would have beenlike, which I have a commitment
at, and I would have been like,All right, I'll get it covered
(06:39):
with a text message, you know,whatever. And then I realized,
well, there's guys that rely onme to drive them. And I was
like, Oh, fuck. So now I fuckingmake sure they have transport,
make sure my fucking commitmentscovered. And, like, those are
the things that fucking keep mesober, correct? So you had a
little rough go at it. I knowsort of your story, but do you
want to tell us about this lasttime and What? What? What? What?
(07:01):
I don't say, what was different,but, but the last pinnacle of
drug use into the life you havetoday?
Yeah, definitely, like I said,I've been trying to get sober
since I was 18 years old, youknow, just dabbling in drugs at
a young age. In high school, youknow, I became addicted to
(07:25):
heroin at 18. And for me, thatlooked like, you know, just how
do I get $20 to get well likeevery day, you know, and
couldn't keep a job, you know,didn't know who I was, who I
wanted to be, where I wanted togo. My only focus was, how do I
stay well? And then you get intothat cycle, which is, I need to
(07:46):
go to work to make money, to beable to get drugs to go to work.
It's the cycle, right? Which isthe most hopeless cycle you can
be in, because you realize thatyou're like, Man, I can't get
drugs unless I show up to work.
But in order to show up to work,I need drugs. So it's like
you're just, you're in this,like hopeless cycle. And I just
lived that for a long time. Butmy last go around, you know, I
was 2526 and you know, I wasjust running around. I was sober
(08:12):
three years at one point when Imoved out here to Los Angeles,
and I had tasted sobriety, and Iknew what life could be like,
and I learned a lot about myselfin that time, but I was young,
and, you know, I thought in mymind, maybe, hey, like, that was
a phase, right? Like, I'm threeyears sober, I'm not going to
meetings as much. I start to getresentful at the program and the
(08:33):
people in it and the whole sceneof it. And I thought maybe,
like, the drug use was a phase,and it was based around people
that I was surrounding myselfwith and the places I was
living. And, you know, at thispoint I had changed my
geographical location. I had adifferent friend group, and so I
said, you know, maybe I can goout and drink socially and,
like, date and just live anormal life. I just wanted to be
(08:54):
normal, you know. And that, youknow, I learned pretty quickly
that it wasn't a phase. AndFamous last words, right? Yeah,
definitely. And, you know, allthings always lead me back to
the rooms. It starts with thedrinking, and then it starts
with, you know, the innocent Ineed to take a Xanax and the
cocaine, and then I'm back tothe heroin. Nowadays, it's
fentanyl, but at that point itwas more just heroin. And, yeah,
(09:16):
my last run looked like I was 26years old. I had gotten a girl
pregnant from a one night standwe had, and she said, I'm on
birth control, and it's fine.
And I'm like, Are you sure? Andshe's like, I'm very sure. And
then, you know, month later, shepops in the room and she says,
you know, she's crying, andshe's like, I'm like, oh, what's
wrong? And we were friends,like, right? We were just cool,
(09:37):
like, we had, we slept togetherone night. That was it. And she
comes in the room and she'scrying and says, I'm pregnant.
And I'm like, oh man. Like, thatsucks. I wonder who the dad is.
Like, I don't even fathom that.
She was like, telling me thedad. You know, that's how
fucking clueless I was at thetime. And and then I'm like, Oh
shit. Oh, I'm the dad. Okay? AndI was like, Wow, that's crazy.
(09:58):
And I was like, well. What's,you know, what do you want to
do? Right? Because my firstwords weren't like, you need to
have an abortion, or like youneed to figure this out. It was
like, What do you want to do?
You know, I knew logically,like, it wasn't my choice,
right? What she decides to do,and so she, you know, at first
was like, I don't think I'mgoing to keep the baby. It's not
a good time. And then a coupleweeks went by and I was like,
(10:20):
you know, how are you do you doyou need me to take you to the
clinic? Like, what can I do tohelp? And she's like, I'm going
to keep the baby and then justturn into us talking about it,
and we're going to co parentthis child together. And we both
have no idea how that's going towork or what that looks like,
but we're not going to be acouple and we're going to co
parent. And you know, that justdidn't work out well. She had
expectations of me that I wasn'tmeeting during the pregnancy.
(10:42):
And you know, I was pretty muchlike, living in my car, almost
in sobriety, right? Like I hadgotten sober, went to a detox, I
gave up my apartment, and theysaid, you can stay at our sober
living. And I did. And afterabout three weeks, they say,
hey, the sober living isactually shutting down, like you
need to go. We don't have anoption for you. And so I was,
like, kind of jumping from,like, place to place, like, I
had a little Toyota car, and Iwould, like, have all my clothes
(11:05):
in there, and then I would stayat this friend's house and that
friend's house and go on thiscouch. Or my buddy was leaving
town for a month, and he'd letme stay at his house in Malibu,
and, like, watch over the house,you know, and take care of the
dog. So my life looked likethat. And in that time, that's
when I got her pregnant. And sowhen, you know, during the
pregnancy, I wasn't meeting yourexpectations, I couldn't show up
financially, or I still wasrunning around trying to, like,
(11:28):
meet other girls. I just didn'treally grasp, like, the reality
of my situation. But the stress,I think, that came from the
pregnancy, you know, with her,and the fear that was coming my
way of I'm about to be a dad. Ihave no place to live. I hardly
have stable employment. I thinkI was like bartending at that
time in sobriety and working ata liquor store, you know. I was
(11:49):
just like doing everything youshouldn't do, right? And I start
selling Coke, you know, insobriety, and I'm working at the
bar and selling the Coke, andI'm working the steps still,
like it was just a veryconfusing time, you know. And I
remember, think she'd like,found out I was, like, selling
Coke, and asked me. And I waslike, Absolutely not. And, you
know, was lying to her. But whathappened was, yeah, I ended up
(12:12):
the person I was, like, gettingall my cocaine from, you know,
who was, like, my dealer? He waslike, Hey, man, like, I got some
Xanax. Do you want them? And Iwas like, No. And I remember, I
took a quarter of a Xanax. I wasalready low. I never did the
coke I dealt. I wasn't doinganything. I wasn't drinking. It
started with the Xanax, and thenfrom the Xanax, it went to me
(12:33):
calling my old drug dealer. And,you know, this guy's like, a
lifelong drug dealer, right? He,you know, he's just a hustler.
He sells everything from Pitbullpuppies to Playstation and
fentanyl and whatever, anythingelse. And so I call him. He
hooks me up. He's like, I haveChina White, you know? And I'm
like, China White, that'ssomething on the East Coast, out
(12:54):
here in the West Coast, yeah,exactly. And like, West Coast,
we get black tar heroin. Itcomes through Mexico. And I'm
like, wow, it was really justfentanyl. But anyways, long
story short, I start usingagain, and I'm living in a house
with like, three or four soberguys, you know, and I I'm oding
like, once a week every otherweek. That's what it turned
(13:16):
into. Woke up to me, like wakingup in our bathroom, on the floor
naked, and like, three hourshave gone by, the shower still
running. It's like, three in themorning, and it would like,
dawned on me, like, wow. Like, Ijust Oded for the first time, I
could have died, and somebodywould have found me maybe in the
morning. You know, like, hourshave gone by, no one even, like,
checked the water was stillrunning in the shower. It was
(13:37):
nuts. And so I was waking up inthe hospital, or waking up in
the ambulance or waking up in mycar, and it just got to the
point where I was like, man,like, you know, things are
really fucked up. And she, youknow, was hiding the using from
her. She went back to New Jerseyto have the baby because she was
gonna have a C section. Her momcould take care of her. So I
flew out for the birth. I'mreally strung out. I run out of
(14:01):
heroin at the hospital. I startwithdrawing. She's like,
something's up with this guy.
Watch my son be born, like,withdrawing from drugs. And,
yeah, it was just rough. I endedup leaving and going into the
hood in Newark and, like, askingpeople on the street for drugs,
and some dude, like, hooked meup and took me to some project
(14:22):
building and got me drugs, andshe knew I was high, and kicked
me out of the hospital. And,like, called security, and I,
like, ran out. It was thiswhole, like, traumatic scene,
and I came back and just dovedeeper. She blocked me so I
couldn't see my son, couldn'ttalk to her. Like, I literally
was, you know, ex communicated.
I think that's the word from,like, you know, seeing her, the
(14:46):
kid, and she just stayed in NewJersey, and I'm out here in LA
like, just pretty much dying.
And the last straw for me was myfriends interviewed on me, you
know, they said you need to getsober. You need to call out of
work, because I was bartendingand doing all that, and I
stopped selling Coke, you know,I because I got pulled over, and
I almost got caught, and I itwas too scary, and I said, I
(15:07):
just have, you know, I just hada kid. I can't do this. But, you
know, my friends intervene onme, and they took my keys and my
wallet, and they got meSuboxone, and I was at the house
taking Suboxone, trying to,like, kick the habit. And I
think it worked for like, 12days until the last day of the
suboxone taper. They gave me mykeys back, and they're like,
(15:31):
Okay, seems good. You know,almost two weeks have gone by,
and that night, at three in themorning, I remember I woke up
and was like, fuck this. I can'tdo this. Call. My dealer drove
over to Inglewood. He met me ina parking lot. I got the
fentanyl. I was just smoking. Itsmoked. It started driving. Next
thing you know, I wake up on thefreeway and my car's totaled.
(15:52):
The paramedics are cutting like,the seatbelt off of me and my
sweatshirt off of me. And Ilike, wake up, come to and I'm
just like, oh shit. I justfucking crashed and totaled the
car, and I'm about to go to jailand get my second DUI and my
fifth possession charge. And I'mlike, Oh, this is bad. And it
was like, instant panic. LuckilyI didn't get hurt, luckily I
(16:14):
didn't have to Narcan me. I justcame to and I was in the neck in
the ambulance on the way to thehospital. I remember, you know,
the police like, hey, we knowyou're on drugs. We have your
drug paraphernalia. You know youare gonna get a driving under
the influence charge, but sinceyou're in the hospital here,
we're not gonna take you in.
We're gonna write you a courtdate. And so I was like, okay,
(16:37):
look,I'm fucked. I just had a baby. I
can't talk to them. They don'tcare about me that I, you know,
just crashed my car. I just gotanother DUI, and now I'm
probably, I have another drugcharge. I just said I need help,
like I need to go to rehab atthis point. And what happened
was, you know, I didn't haveinsurance, I didn't have any
family support. I, you know,like a lot of people at that
(16:58):
point, I had no resources, so Iwas just like, I'm willing to do
whatever it takes, you know. Iwish I knew about beet shuva At
the time, or if this was anoption back then, because I
would have loved to come here.
And yeah, but, you know, I waswilling to go to the Salvation
Army, and that's what I startedlooking into, you know. And I
had a friend who I helped to getsober at one point, and was
(17:19):
dearest to me. And he said, Hey,I'm gonna put you in a treatment
program in Colorado, and you'regonna go out there, and you're
gonna complete this treatmentprogram, and I'm gonna pay for
you to go there, and the onlyway you can come back to Los
Angeles is if you complete theprogram and then takes finish
the steps yourself, the 12 Stepsof Alcoholics Anonymous, and
then take someone else throughthe steps, and that's the only
(17:41):
way you'll be able to leave. AndI said, I don't care. I'm
willing to do whatever it takes.
You know, I literally havenothing. Now, that's what I did.
And I went out there, and I wentinto this little mountain town
in Carbondale, Colorado, whichis about 40 minutes north of
Aspen, Colorado, and I reallybuilt a strong foundation for
myself that was built uponprinciples pretty much
(18:06):
surrounding the 12 Steps ofAlcoholics Anonymous, you know,
and I saw what was important inlife to me, and I learned a lot
about myself in that time. And Ijust I instilled a set of values
for myself and boundaries, youknow, for myself and what was
acceptable and what wasn't. AndI think in there, at some point,
I made a deal with God. And,yeah, it was pretty profound. I
(18:31):
think I had a spiritualawakening, for sure. It was like
that at that moment where it waslike, there was tears, and it's
like, I don't really cry thatlike, you know, it's hard for me
to cry. And I was, like, justtearing up, and I made a deal
with God that, like, you know,considering God gave me this
opportunity to a, be alive andB, be sober in a treatment
(18:51):
program and having a friend payfor it, you know. And this place
wasn't cheap, right? It wasn't aluxury place, but, you know,
it's a long term treatmentprogram, and I don't know, I
just made that deal with God,like I can't go out. And, you
know, there's been a there'sbeen many times since in this
sobriety, especially in thebeginning, where I had so many
opportunities to get loaded, andthere's so many reasons on why
(19:14):
should get loaded, and even towhere I had them in my hand, and
I was like, Oh, nope. And Iwould put it back down, because
I said, Remember that deal Imade with God? Like, I can't, I
gotta, I gotta hold true tothat, you know. So for me, dude,
you know, it was really big,like everybody says it's, I just
did what people told me to do,and which was work the steps,
(19:35):
you know, and I got a sponsor,and I really in depth work the
steps. And I worked on thefourth step for two hours a day,
like, I really, like, dove inand I wanted to get serious, and
I wanted to get this. And I wassick of building my life up and
burning it down, because mypattern was, get three years
sober, go out, get a year and ahalf sober, go out, get another
(19:56):
year sober, go out. And I was.
Sick of doing that. You know, atthis point, I had a child, and
you know, my dad was there forme when, you know, I grew up, I
have, I have great parents, youknow, they're very loving,
caring. And the idea of me notshowing up for my son as my dad
did for me, I felt like was justthe most selfish. Like, if I
(20:18):
were to do that, that would havebeen the most selfish decision
and that I could have ever made.
Because, you know, my dad wasthere for me, and he gave me a
life as much as he could, and Iwant to do the same for my son.
And so, you know, I just madethat choice where they said, you
know, find a higher power. Andyeah, I was raised in the
church. Did I really believe allthe stuff that was, you know, I
was told not necessarily. I hadto break all those beliefs down
(20:39):
and really come up with my ownsense of higher power. And like,
what is my higher power? One forme, you know, do I believe that
if I did something bad, myhigher power is going to punish
me? And I just had all thesebeliefs, you know, and I had to,
like, break all that down andset that aside, and you say the
set aside prayer, but I had toset all that stuff aside and
really, like come up with my ownHigher Power set or set around
(21:01):
rules and principles that Ibelieve that might you know how
my higher power wants me to besuccessful, he wants me to be
happy, he wants me to be loved,and he wants me to help others.
And it's not necessarily a guyin the sky that has long hair or
it's Jesus, it's just thisbeing, and I don't know what
they look like, but I just didwhat was said, and I created my
higher power. And I startedpraying to that higher power
(21:21):
daily and asking for guidanceand asking for help. And if I
was confused, scared or lost, Ilet my higher power know that,
and I, you know, I asked forthat guidance. And this this
far, it has worked right like Ihave. I could say, built the
life for myself that I've alwaysdreamed of, or I've always
wanted,you know, any goal that I've had
(21:44):
in sobriety,I've, I've met that goal, like
I've, I've achieved it, youknow. And again, it's not all
materialistic stuff. It was likehaving a girlfriend that you
love and care about, like, Ifound a great girlfriend, like,
I've had another child sincethat first child I just talked
about, you know, and I have therelationship with him. It's like
he's my He's four, but he'slike, my best friend, you know,
(22:05):
like I he's my world, he's mylife, like he is my number one
priority. And, you know, I wasworking in treatment, and I just
saw what was working and whatwasn't working within this
treatment industry, right? Yeah,yeah, we were just talking about
outside, about the about howimportant long term treatment
is, but it's, it's the treatmentindustry as a whole is a, it's
(22:27):
an odd place to be. It's justa broken system in a way, right?
Like, I think the model we haveis very outdated, and, you know,
especially for men, right? Ifyou look at men nationwide right
now, okay, men from the ageslike 18 to 35 or 38 I say 18 to
38 they are the most broken andlost they've ever been, right?
(22:50):
If you look at it, they theythey have no partner, they have
no career path, they don't havemany friends. You know, they are
at an all time low, and a lot ofthat is because technology,
whether it's Pornhub or videogames, you know, I think men are
afraid to talk to women. They'reafraid to approach women, right?
(23:14):
They're afraid to, you know, bemasculine. I guess you could
say, when I say masculine, notlike toxic masculinity. I mean,
like, they're just afraid to,like, be a man. And I think that
what I saw was a lot of guysjust struggling. And so I was
working in treatment, and I wasseeing this model of this 28 to
30, you know, 60 day, 90 daymodel, where people go in and
(23:36):
they're paying $100,000 for amonth of treatment, and they're
not really getting much out ofit. You don't leave that place
with a huge community. You don'tleave with like, a different
sense of self, normally, and ifyou do, it goes away pretty
quickly. Within a month, mostpeople are leaving treatment,
and they're going back to thesame people, places and things,
and so therefore you will getthe same results. And so I knew
(23:56):
a different way of getting soberthat I experienced in Colorado.
And I said, you know, I want tocreate something like that. And
when I it was maybe three, threeyears ago, I decided I want to
open a treatment program, andlet's start as a sober living
right? And we didn't have muchmoney. My friend had a little
(24:18):
bit of money, and my brother andhis fiance had a little bit of
money. And we just said, let'stake a risk. And we found this
property in Venice, and weinquired about it, and we toured
it, and the owners were like,Sure, make it into a sober
living like, whatever you wantto do with it. We don't care. We
just want, you know, Give us ourmoney. And I think we had like
(24:38):
$100,000 together. The securitydeposit on the property was like
60 grand, right? So, like, wedidn't have, you know, the
operational costs. It was like,it's either you're gonna burn
and turn really quickly, likeyou're gonna get some people in
and pay the rent, or it's gonnafail within three months. And
luckily, we were really able toget the property, get it
furnished. And just get peoplein, and it's worked out this
(25:01):
far, and now we havetransitioned more into a
treatment program, right? Kindof like the model that I went to
in Colorado, where, like, whenguys come in now, you know,
we're not a sober living likeyou come in and do a 90 day
intensive program where you'redoing individual therapy three
to four times a week for thefirst month, right? You're
seeing a psychiatrist. You'regetting on a good medication
(25:23):
regimen. You're going to the gymevery morning. Guys, yeah, well,
you know, we want the guys to beactive, so I don't care what it
is, if it's the gym or it's abeach run or it's rock climbing
or whatever, but it is veryoutdoor and life skills based,
you know, the guys are up by 730we do a coffee talk, which is
kind of like a morning check,and at 745 you do, you know,
your chore, which is, whetherit's trash or dishes, at eight,
(25:44):
we're at the gym. At 830 by 930you're back and that, you know,
we do that five days a week.
It's just, it's just grown, Iguess is what I'm saying. You
know, it became something wedidn't really know what it was
gonna become, but it becamesomething bigger than what we
thought itwould be. Yeah, it's a really
great house. I think there's acouple of things that you just
touched on. Just want to, wantto circle back on for a minute
when you were talking about God,you were saying about how it's a
(26:06):
gift. And I want to just reflecton that for a minute, because,
you know, I was thinking aboutit.
I was taking cakes this week,which is crazy, but crazy. It's
insane, dude. I'm like to seeyou where you were a
year ago. Is how you are now.
For a minute that was like, soyou were the guy that told me to
go to rehab. Can you explainthat story? Because I like
hearing it from you.
(26:28):
Well, dude, like, you know, it'svery similar to the friend that
we are talking about who's onthe streets right now. And when
I say that, I mean, like, youwere loved by so many people.
You had so much potential to dowhatever you want in life. And I
can see that, and many othercould see that, right? You had a
lot of gifts, and the gifts werehelping people and being able to
communicate a message to people,which you're doing right now
through a podcast, and you do itin many other ways as well in
(26:51):
life, but you just had a lot ofpotential. You're loved by a lot
of people. And I just saw youkeep doing the same thing over
and over again, right? It's likewhere you had a lot of friends
who would like pick you up, butyou would like go into a sober
living relapse, either give youa second chance or kick you out,
and then you go into another oneand relapse, and it was just
this dance. And I'm like, bro,like, you are not stable enough
emotionally right now to staysober. You need treatment, right
(27:14):
there is a time and a place fortreatment, and that's where you
were at. And that's why I waslike, hey dude, like, I think he
justgotta, like, on the roof, yeah,
we were on the roof of the beachhouse. Yeah, we went up there,
and you were like, I don't knowwhat to do. And I just said, I
think you need to go to rehab.
And I know you don't have a lotof resources, but let's find
some. And luckily, we have agood friend group, and they
found you this resource.
(27:36):
Beethove, and this place isfucking amazing and beautiful
and has such good energy, and Iwas just really impressed by
you, because most people, when Isay you have to go to treatment,
they're like, no, no, no, Idon't need to go to treatment.
I'm good. I don't need that.
I'll go to detox for three daysor five days, and then I'll go
into a sober living it's likepeople are so treatment
resistant, but it's like they'reso blind to the fact they don't
understand it's like, Dude, ittakes your body a month to heal,
(27:58):
your mind a month to heal, to bestable enough to even stay sober
and absorb any information onhow to stay sober after that.
And it's like, people don'tgrasp that concept they like.
And I get it. I was that kidonce too, where I'm like, fuck
that. I'm not going to treatmentlike I'm good. But it just
doesn't work that way. You know,it's like, if you've been out
for a year, it's like, yourbody's gonna take almost a year
(28:19):
to heal, and your mind is gonnatake a year to heal. And people
that don't grasp that concept,and I was so impressed by you,
because you just said, okay, itwas like, shocking to me. You're
just like, Okay, sure. And I waslike, wow, that was fucking
easy. Okay. Like, that's not theresponse I was anticipating. And
you went into treatment, dude,and you look at you now, and
that's why it's like you're sucha prime example of if you just
(28:42):
throw up the white flag like Idid. I said, I'm willing to go
to the Salvation Army like samething. I didn't care. I just
wanted I knew what sobriety was,and I knew I had a lot of
friends who were in sobriety,and they wanted to fucking see
me shine. And I I just said yes.
And same as you, you said yes,and you've been able to build
your life up to where it is nowtoday. And that person that I
(29:04):
saw in you is now here, the Sebthat I knew was inside of you is
finally arrived. Yeah, right,and it's and now you're able to
show up as a father. Now you'reable to show up as a friend and
a brother, and you will dowhatever else you want to do in
life, and you will be successfulat it.
Well, yeah. Well, thank you forthat. But I like, I like how
(29:27):
we're going back to the wholething about this being a gift,
because I've had, I've beenhaving thinking about this a lot
this week, which was Yes, I saidyes to you. But if I'm being
honest, if I'm being totallylike I you know when Harris,
who's your Sober Living managerwho runs the house for your
guys? When he drove me here,I'll be honest, I didn't feel
(29:47):
any lower than I'd regularlyfelt. You know, I didn't have a
white light moment. I didn't saythis is gonna be it. You know, I
had hang out the white flag, butthere wasn't no preaching on a
hill. I honestly felt like. Herewe go again, right? And so I
have to believe, I absolutelyhave to believe that God did
(30:08):
something for me, that I can dofor myself, that I was given a
gift. Sure, I felt down anddepressed, but my whole life was
being down and depressed. Itjust felt like okay now the
treatment center. I didn't feellike it was gonna work. I didn't
feel any more determined. Ididn't feel anything different,
other than the fact, okay, I'vethrown up the white flag again.
(30:29):
And so, like, when I think aboutit, I'm like, This was a gift.
This was something that was sofreely given to me. And for some
reason, God decided that mysuffering was over and it wasn't
obvious to me, right? Which iswhy long term treatment, I
think, is so important. Because,like, it didn't dawn on me that
this might actually startworking until maybe month four
(30:50):
or five, all I did was go, Idon't know shit. Theron thinks I
need to go to rehab. I'll go torehab. And I did that in all
areas of my daily life, whichwas, Oh, I'm not that hungry.
Oh, they're telling me to getup. I should probably go and
eat. Oh, they're telling me togo to group. I should probably
go to group. That's all I did.
Yeah, I had, I just, I hadresigned to the fact that I had
no good ideas. And, you know,for the first six months, I had
(31:16):
to ask people if I should tie myshoes or, like, what like I
felt. But I was willing to takethat level of advice in all
areas of my life, because I hadthrown up the white flag, you
know, and it looks different foreverybody. But for me, it was
just following, you know, I say,you know, I say here, like,
(31:36):
after night, I spent a lot oftime with the guys here, and I
this, this place is, even thoughI'm not a resident anymore, I'm
still here pretty much everyday, because I don't think I can
ever repay what this place evergave out to me. And if I can
help one person a year, that'sthe fucking That's the ticket
for me, right? And, um, and, andpeople ask me like, or I try to
(31:56):
tell them, like, how you'resuccessful in treatment. And I
tell them frankly, you don'tneed to come here and be a model
citizen. You don't even have tocome here and do very much. You
do just have to fucking show up.
You just have to follow somevery basic rules of bedtimes,
(32:17):
this time wake ups this time,this is when you're gonna eat,
you're gonna go to group, andyou just, you don't even have to
like I remember, for my firstmonth here, I didn't
particularly share in groups,but I just showed up. And over
time, I became more willing, andI could see it, but I just
started saying yes, and Istopped fighting. I just came to
(32:38):
the fact that I'm utterlymental. And, you know, I can't
decide on salad dressing. Howthe fuck am I going to decide,
like, on the course of my life?
Fuck out of here, dude. I needreal when I go to treatment. I
need. I need. And I think thisis we need very minimal decision
making, which is why, when we'retalking about our friend, like,
long term treatment, you know,or long term structure, long
(33:02):
term community might be thebetter word. Long term community
is, is the fucking is theticket? That is
one of the main ticket recipe,like pieces of the recipe, I
agree. But one of the biggestkey points you said is you just
say yes. And the people I seewho have success with, you know,
staying abstinent from drugs andalcohol for extended period of
(33:24):
time are the ones who just say,yes, yeah. And, you know,
there's a lot of sayings that Itell people and live by and go
by, and one of them is, youknow, I believe life and or
sobriety, it's about doingthings you don't want to do.
Yeah, right. That is the key inrecipe to staying sober long
term is, do I want to read the12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous
(33:48):
in the big book? I don't. Ireally don't. I don't want to
read any book right now. Youknow, like, I don't do I want to
go to meetings and sit in acircle and, like, listen to
people share and talk and heartheir problems or hear their
feelings. Of course not. Whywould I? I don't want to sponsor
people. I don't want to go tomeetings. I don't want to read
the book. I don't want to do anyof this shit. I don't want to
(34:09):
write out every person I've everbeen mad at or resentful at and
like how I harmed them. Like,that's horrible. But again, it's
just me saying yes, and it's medoing the things that I have to
do to stay sober. Because ifeverybody else does it and it
works for them, why wouldn't itwork? Wouldn't it work for me?
And when you can surrender tothat fact, I think you will be
(34:30):
in a lot better place and have alot more success with sobriety.
And it's, it comes down to this.
It's like, you know,losers do what they want and
winners do what they have to.
That's just the facts of life.
You know, that's a fuckingZinger. Yeah, it's the truth.
It's so true. And, you know,people all seem to understand
(34:51):
too. It's like, Look, dude, likein life, sobriety, sober or not,
you're gonna have good days,you're gonna have bad days, you
might have a horrible week, andyou might be down in the. And
feeling depressed for a week.
But that doesn't mean you haveto go use or get high over it,
because, you know, a week fromnow, or that week, a week from
then, you could be in an amazingplace and getting people to
understand like you're gonnahave ups and downs, right? I
(35:13):
want my life to look like I'm arealist, right? So I want my
life to look like a good stock.
If you look at any good stock onthe stock market, it goes up and
then it dips, right? But then itkeeps going up, and it's always
continuously rising with dips.
And I think if your life canlook like that, it's like a
continuous rise with dips andUPS and ups, as long as it's
going up and down a little bitand up, like you're in good
(35:36):
shape, right? Like you're gonnahave bad days. And so,
yeah, we tend to think that lifeis like a perfect 45 degree
angle, and it's just notcorrect. You actually think that
about careers. When I wouldthink about that in careers,
it's like, it's just not noone's career or no one's life.
Does this perfect fucking arrowup 45 degrees 100%
dude, like last year. I mean,honestly, it was one of, like,
(35:58):
the hardest years of my life insobriety, just like so hard,
emotionally, mentally, right? Idon't know why it just was, it
just was really difficult, but Iunderstand that there is other,
there's another side to that,right? And to get through, you
know, the good times you got togo, you know, to get to the good
times, you got to go through thehard times. And it's always like
(36:21):
a test from the universe, dude.
It's like, how I feel. It'slike, let me push you to the max
and see what you can withstand.
And how far can I push you untilyou're either gonna break. But
if you stay, I'm gonna rewardyou, right? If you get through
this hard time, I'm gonna rewardyou. And I have that mindset,
and I try to really keep that sowhen I am in dark times or
things are really hard, and I'mjust like, This is a test, this
(36:43):
is a test. This is a test. AndI'm being pushed, because if I
can get through this, it will beeven better than it is, you
know, before it was bad. And soI try to keep that mindset,
you know, yeah, I want to touchon one more thing, on community
and what I love about whatyou're doing at little beach
house. So I started by bringinga van on Thursdays about six
months ago, right? And I've now,Steve brings the van, and that
(37:07):
was very intentional, because Ilove what you're doing there.
And I bring the van because Ithink it's important for people
that are in treatment to seethat other communities exist.
I'm looking I got to know Iexist. I'm on the way. I've been
on the west side. Aa, so I havethat. But I think about the
other people that come intotreatment and not saying that
(37:28):
they won't remain a part of thecommunity here, but they might
have other interests, or maybethey don't have and I think it's
important for people to havelike while they're in treatment,
to see other thrivingcommunities that they can go be
part 100% they need be inspiredtoo. Yeah, yeah. And I think you
need to I realized about sixmonths ago that I was super
lucky that I knew the right WestSide aa stuff. But then I would
(37:50):
meet people in treatment whothis is their first time getting
sober, and they don't reallyunderstand that you need a
couple communities to balanceyou out. You need a place to go.
And so, yeah, we arrive, we cometo your meeting every Thursday
at seven and and I think it'sreally helped a lot of people.
And we also got to give you ashout out, because you guys made
it co ed for us, or not, maybefor us, but you made it co Ed,
(38:12):
which was, that was awesome,too. Like, I think that's
important too. We're veryimportant, especially the van I
bring. It's a co Ed van. SoI love that. It's, it's co Ed
and, you know, I got sober in a,you know, one point in the sober
living where it was male andfemale, and some of the females
that I was in that place withare still some of my best
friends today, and I learned alot from them. I learned to have
(38:36):
a relationship with a femalethat wasn't romantic or sexual,
right? Like, I learned how toalmost have a sister that I
never had, because never had asister. Right? Like, I didn't
know how to talk to girls. LikeI my only way to talk to girls
was like to flirt, but like toactually have a female as a
friend. You know, I learned thatin in this program, and my
sisters in AA, and so, you know,everything I've done in life or
(38:57):
accomplished or like anywhereI've been, I owe it to sobriety
and getting sober. And, youknow, dude, the west side, like
you said, These people need tosee what's out there, because
the west side, aa, is worldrenowned. Dude, it really is.
Like, I've been to meetings allover, like you I've been to
meetings in the UK, like you canname it, Florida, New York,
like, fucking everywhere. Andnothing really compares. And so
(39:18):
being able to have people comefrom wherever they're from, and
come to treatment and show themthat, and have them get inspired
by people who they meet in therooms is such a priceless piece
to this as well. And that's howi That's why I stuck around in a
I met dudes. I'm like, damn.
Like that guy. He's doing it. Heseems pretty cool. He seems like
(39:42):
he has a life that I want, like,I'm if he can do I'm just going
to do what he does, and if thatincludes his a thing, like,
let's do it. And people need tobe exposed to that. Yeah, it's
huge.
Hey, we'll be right back. Butbefore we do please consider
helping us grow this podcast.
You could do that a number ofdifferent ways. You can hit
follow on. Spotify. You can rateus, review us, but what would be
really awesome would be if youcould share this with one other
(40:04):
addict or alcoholic that youthink could get something out
this podcast. If everyone didthat, we would grow this thing
tremendously. But as always,thank you for listening and
thank you for your support.
Yeah, so we we ask every guestthis, as we come to a close,
what would you tell littleTheron today, if you could give
him some words of wisdom,give up the fight.
(40:30):
Just give up the fight. Your waydoesn't work,
plain and simple. It's like youyou're gonna try every way to to
do it, and you're going to tryto do it your way in every
little you know, way possible,and it's not going to work, and
the only way is just followthese simple directions and
(40:50):
steps that are already laid out.
And if I could have stayed sobera long time ago, I don't even
know where I'd be today, like Imy life would probably look even
better, right? Like me, dude,there you go. You get it, you
know, and so, but, you know, I'mso grateful for where I'm at
today, in the sense of, like,all that stuff I went through,
(41:11):
bro, and all that stuff you wentthrough and you went through,
like, we needed to have thesethings happen to us to make us
the people we are today, to makeus strong enough to be able to,
like, partake in life and handleeverything that's thrown at us,
yeah?
Or talk about us gonna get ourbuddy and fucking pull him out
of a homeless camp maybe later.
You know,yeah, I saw, yeah. We were
thinking. I'm like, like, mymind still goes to places where
(41:33):
I'm like, Man, I want to do somerogue shit. Like, I want to,
like, pull up. We get a FiveGuys, yeah? Like, we're we
literally, like, we got the zipties ready, we fucking throw
them in the van, and we beat himup if we have to, and we zip
time, and we take him to fuckingtreatment, right? Because people
like that. They're too importantto not be sober, in my opinion,
right? Like they like I said itwas like, you, you have too much
(41:55):
to offer. You have too much togive. You have too many people
who love you for you to be doingwhat you're doing right now. And
I start to get a little pissedoff, where I'm like, All right,
this is crazy. Like, let's justgo fucking beat this dude up and
bring him to rehab. He may needthat, and maybe you'll thank us
later, but he's not gonna die.
Yeah, you know, and I don'tknow. I just, I just wish there
(42:16):
was more we can do. And so we'regonna, we'll see. Stay
tuned for next week, maybe we'llhave some updates, I hope so.
Yeah, thanks for coming intoday.
Thank you guys. Bye.
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have been warned.
David Luke, gave it.
(01:09):
Hi and welcome to sicker thanothers. The podcast brought to
you from within an amazingTreatment Center in Los Angeles.
My guest today is a good friendof mine also threw me out of his
sober living, and it's just anall round, really important part
of West Side. Aa Theron, welcometo the show.
(01:31):
Thank you so much. I'm stoked tobe here.
It is crazy. It's crazy. Sograteful. I could get you one
you were you're on my list. AndI'm just like, I'm just, I love
it when things align. Man, thiswas like we were texting about a
buddy of ours this morning whoisn't doing so good. I think is
an understatement. Yeah,it's, it's hard to see, and we
see it a lot, obviously, right?
(01:52):
But when, when you see it tothat level where there's
homelessness and medical issuesdue to your homelessness because
of your drug use, that's when itstarts to get scary, yeah, you
know. And I, you know, I wasrandomly approached by him on my
bike. I was with my four yearold son riding bikes, you know,
in Venice on, like, a weekend,and the guy flags me down out of
a homeless encampment, and I'mlike, what, what is that you and
(02:15):
it was, like, it was really hardto see, and it was emotional,
like he was almost crying. I wasalmost crying talking to him,
and it was like, Yeah, I justIt's sad. So
well, that's why we were talkingabout maybe going to do a little
12 step. Call him, anyonedoesn't know a 12 step call it's
when you kind of nudge somebodythat needs the help that they so
obviously need. And, and I wasjust thinking about it before we
(02:38):
walked in here, the fact that heflagged you down and wanted to
talk when I'm in the good sideof using I'm not flagging
anybody down and I don't want totalk. So it's a good sign point
that maybe that's the best hecan do right now. The best he
can do is, is flag someone down.
Yeah, and he didn't need to flagyou down. No, he
(03:02):
didn't. You could have hid andbe like, right there he is. I
gotta hide. That's what I wouldhave done, like, for sure. Yeah.
So, um, yeah. So I'll get downhere. I just want to hear a bit
about your story and what you donow and and how you ended up,
how much, how many years do youhave now, seven, and how you got
seven years because you were areal one. Yeah, it was just a
(03:24):
long journey. Didn't get it yourfirst time, right? No, I was
trying to get sober since I was18 years old. I'm 33 now, about
to turn 34 next month, and Ijust had a long boat ride, up
and down and in and out andtrial and error, you know? And I
think, you know, I'm a primeexample of I've done everything
you shouldn't do in sobriety,and I've paid consequences for
(03:45):
that, and I've done a lot ofthings you should in sobriety to
get where I'm at today. And whenI say get where I'm at today, I
mean being able to have stablehousing for myself, stable
transportation and stableemployment, right? And also show
up as a friend, a dad, abrother, a son, you know, and an
employer, and you can even sayan employee, like all those
(04:09):
things right, that we that wewant or that we envision for
ourselves, in order to, youknow, in most of our minds, have
a successful Life, I feel like Ihave been able to get all those
things, you know. And success,to me is not necessarily
materialistic. It's like I said,like, Do you have a good group
of friends? Do you have a familyor people that love you? And are
(04:31):
you able to help and provide forothers, whether that's family,
your friends, or, you know, justbeing of service in general. And
I feel like I have been able toachieve those things. And, you
know, I thank God for that everyday. You know, I really try to
stay in gratitude. Andespecially nowadays, I'm really
big on, you know, looking atlike what I have instead of what
(04:53):
I don't have, right? And it'sreally easy for us in sobriety.
Well, just so. Sobriety or not,to get wrapped up in, like,
what, what I need, and more andmore and more, and, you know,
trying to accomplish and striveto be successful in so many
different areas of life. And Ithink if you're able to just be
(05:14):
really present and be like,happy with what you have in the
moment, and also willing to giveit away. You will, you know, get
more, yeah, and you will achievemore. I'm a big believer in
that. Soit's, it's amazing that it took
a long time for me to realize,but I really, I do love it when
people share about, if you dowhat's outlined, and you do do
(05:34):
what's highly suggested, andhelp other people, and you're
really in it, you're an activemember of the community, let's
just say whether that's acommunity of AA, or whether
that's a sober living communityor a community, if you are a
member of a community and you'reliving by the principles, I
haven't seen many people getloaded when they're doing
(05:54):
everything. Yeah, correct,right. Agreed. It's kind of
crazy, but I've seen a lot ofpeople get loaded if they miss
something, and that might befucking not going to your
meetings, or not reading withother people, or whatever that
is. And it's like, for me, Ialso really understand now,
like, the idea of, I don't knowwhat works, but what is working
(06:16):
is like, it is working. So Idon't stop doing any of these
things, even though, like, Idon't necessarily want to read
with somebody this week, or Idon't want to fucking pick up
the guys to take them to themeeting, like, correct, you
know, yesterday I couldn't go toone of my regular meetings. And
like, old me would have beenlike, which I have a commitment
at, and I would have been like,All right, I'll get it covered
(06:39):
with a text message, you know,whatever. And then I realized,
well, there's guys that rely onme to drive them. And I was
like, Oh, fuck. So now I fuckingmake sure they have transport,
make sure my fucking commitmentscovered. And, like, those are
the things that fucking keep mesober, correct? So you had a
little rough go at it. I knowsort of your story, but do you
want to tell us about this lasttime and What? What? What? What?
(07:01):
I don't say, what was different,but, but the last pinnacle of
drug use into the life you havetoday?
Yeah, definitely, like I said,I've been trying to get sober
since I was 18 years old, youknow, just dabbling in drugs at
a young age. In high school, youknow, I became addicted to
(07:25):
heroin at 18. And for me, thatlooked like, you know, just how
do I get $20 to get well likeevery day, you know, and
couldn't keep a job, you know,didn't know who I was, who I
wanted to be, where I wanted togo. My only focus was, how do I
stay well? And then you get intothat cycle, which is, I need to
(07:46):
go to work to make money, to beable to get drugs to go to work.
It's the cycle, right? Which isthe most hopeless cycle you can
be in, because you realize thatyou're like, Man, I can't get
drugs unless I show up to work.
But in order to show up to work,I need drugs. So it's like
you're just, you're in this,like hopeless cycle. And I just
lived that for a long time. Butmy last go around, you know, I
was 2526 and you know, I wasjust running around. I was sober
(08:12):
three years at one point when Imoved out here to Los Angeles,
and I had tasted sobriety, and Iknew what life could be like,
and I learned a lot about myselfin that time, but I was young,
and, you know, I thought in mymind, maybe, hey, like, that was
a phase, right? Like, I'm threeyears sober, I'm not going to
meetings as much. I start to getresentful at the program and the
(08:33):
people in it and the whole sceneof it. And I thought maybe,
like, the drug use was a phase,and it was based around people
that I was surrounding myselfwith and the places I was
living. And, you know, at thispoint I had changed my
geographical location. I had adifferent friend group, and so I
said, you know, maybe I can goout and drink socially and,
like, date and just live anormal life. I just wanted to be
(08:54):
normal, you know. And that, youknow, I learned pretty quickly
that it wasn't a phase. AndFamous last words, right? Yeah,
definitely. And, you know, allthings always lead me back to
the rooms. It starts with thedrinking, and then it starts
with, you know, the innocent Ineed to take a Xanax and the
cocaine, and then I'm back tothe heroin. Nowadays, it's
fentanyl, but at that point itwas more just heroin. And, yeah,
(09:16):
my last run looked like I was 26years old. I had gotten a girl
pregnant from a one night standwe had, and she said, I'm on
birth control, and it's fine.
And I'm like, Are you sure? Andshe's like, I'm very sure. And
then, you know, month later, shepops in the room and she says,
you know, she's crying, andshe's like, I'm like, oh, what's
wrong? And we were friends,like, right? We were just cool,
(09:37):
like, we had, we slept togetherone night. That was it. And she
comes in the room and she'scrying and says, I'm pregnant.
And I'm like, oh man. Like, thatsucks. I wonder who the dad is.
Like, I don't even fathom that.
She was like, telling me thedad. You know, that's how
fucking clueless I was at thetime. And and then I'm like, Oh
shit. Oh, I'm the dad. Okay? AndI was like, Wow, that's crazy.
(09:58):
And I was like, well. What's,you know, what do you want to
do? Right? Because my firstwords weren't like, you need to
have an abortion, or like youneed to figure this out. It was
like, What do you want to do?
You know, I knew logically,like, it wasn't my choice,
right? What she decides to do,and so she, you know, at first
was like, I don't think I'mgoing to keep the baby. It's not
a good time. And then a coupleweeks went by and I was like,
(10:20):
you know, how are you do you doyou need me to take you to the
clinic? Like, what can I do tohelp? And she's like, I'm going
to keep the baby and then justturn into us talking about it,
and we're going to co parentthis child together. And we both
have no idea how that's going towork or what that looks like,
but we're not going to be acouple and we're going to co
parent. And you know, that justdidn't work out well. She had
expectations of me that I wasn'tmeeting during the pregnancy.
(10:42):
And you know, I was pretty muchlike, living in my car, almost
in sobriety, right? Like I hadgotten sober, went to a detox, I
gave up my apartment, and theysaid, you can stay at our sober
living. And I did. And afterabout three weeks, they say,
hey, the sober living isactually shutting down, like you
need to go. We don't have anoption for you. And so I was,
like, kind of jumping from,like, place to place, like, I
had a little Toyota car, and Iwould, like, have all my clothes
(11:05):
in there, and then I would stayat this friend's house and that
friend's house and go on thiscouch. Or my buddy was leaving
town for a month, and he'd letme stay at his house in Malibu,
and, like, watch over the house,you know, and take care of the
dog. So my life looked likethat. And in that time, that's
when I got her pregnant. And sowhen, you know, during the
pregnancy, I wasn't meeting yourexpectations, I couldn't show up
financially, or I still wasrunning around trying to, like,
(11:28):
meet other girls. I just didn'treally grasp, like, the reality
of my situation. But the stress,I think, that came from the
pregnancy, you know, with her,and the fear that was coming my
way of I'm about to be a dad. Ihave no place to live. I hardly
have stable employment. I thinkI was like bartending at that
time in sobriety and working ata liquor store, you know. I was
(11:49):
just like doing everything youshouldn't do, right? And I start
selling Coke, you know, insobriety, and I'm working at the
bar and selling the Coke, andI'm working the steps still,
like it was just a veryconfusing time, you know. And I
remember, think she'd like,found out I was, like, selling
Coke, and asked me. And I waslike, Absolutely not. And, you
know, was lying to her. But whathappened was, yeah, I ended up
(12:12):
the person I was, like, gettingall my cocaine from, you know,
who was, like, my dealer? He waslike, Hey, man, like, I got some
Xanax. Do you want them? And Iwas like, No. And I remember, I
took a quarter of a Xanax. I wasalready low. I never did the
coke I dealt. I wasn't doinganything. I wasn't drinking. It
started with the Xanax, and thenfrom the Xanax, it went to me
(12:33):
calling my old drug dealer. And,you know, this guy's like, a
lifelong drug dealer, right? He,you know, he's just a hustler.
He sells everything from Pitbullpuppies to Playstation and
fentanyl and whatever, anythingelse. And so I call him. He
hooks me up. He's like, I haveChina White, you know? And I'm
like, China White, that'ssomething on the East Coast, out
(12:54):
here in the West Coast, yeah,exactly. And like, West Coast,
we get black tar heroin. Itcomes through Mexico. And I'm
like, wow, it was really justfentanyl. But anyways, long
story short, I start usingagain, and I'm living in a house
with like, three or four soberguys, you know, and I I'm oding
like, once a week every otherweek. That's what it turned
(13:16):
into. Woke up to me, like wakingup in our bathroom, on the floor
naked, and like, three hourshave gone by, the shower still
running. It's like, three in themorning, and it would like,
dawned on me, like, wow. Like, Ijust Oded for the first time, I
could have died, and somebodywould have found me maybe in the
morning. You know, like, hourshave gone by, no one even, like,
checked the water was stillrunning in the shower. It was
(13:37):
nuts. And so I was waking up inthe hospital, or waking up in
the ambulance or waking up in mycar, and it just got to the
point where I was like, man,like, you know, things are
really fucked up. And she, youknow, was hiding the using from
her. She went back to New Jerseyto have the baby because she was
gonna have a C section. Her momcould take care of her. So I
flew out for the birth. I'mreally strung out. I run out of
(14:01):
heroin at the hospital. I startwithdrawing. She's like,
something's up with this guy.
Watch my son be born, like,withdrawing from drugs. And,
yeah, it was just rough. I endedup leaving and going into the
hood in Newark and, like, askingpeople on the street for drugs,
and some dude, like, hooked meup and took me to some project
(14:22):
building and got me drugs, andshe knew I was high, and kicked
me out of the hospital. And,like, called security, and I,
like, ran out. It was thiswhole, like, traumatic scene,
and I came back and just dovedeeper. She blocked me so I
couldn't see my son, couldn'ttalk to her. Like, I literally
was, you know, ex communicated.
I think that's the word from,like, you know, seeing her, the
(14:46):
kid, and she just stayed in NewJersey, and I'm out here in LA
like, just pretty much dying.
And the last straw for me was myfriends interviewed on me, you
know, they said you need to getsober. You need to call out of
work, because I was bartendingand doing all that, and I
stopped selling Coke, you know,I because I got pulled over, and
I almost got caught, and I itwas too scary, and I said, I
(15:07):
just have, you know, I just hada kid. I can't do this. But, you
know, my friends intervene onme, and they took my keys and my
wallet, and they got meSuboxone, and I was at the house
taking Suboxone, trying to,like, kick the habit. And I
think it worked for like, 12days until the last day of the
suboxone taper. They gave me mykeys back, and they're like,
(15:31):
Okay, seems good. You know,almost two weeks have gone by,
and that night, at three in themorning, I remember I woke up
and was like, fuck this. I can'tdo this. Call. My dealer drove
over to Inglewood. He met me ina parking lot. I got the
fentanyl. I was just smoking. Itsmoked. It started driving. Next
thing you know, I wake up on thefreeway and my car's totaled.
(15:52):
The paramedics are cutting like,the seatbelt off of me and my
sweatshirt off of me. And Ilike, wake up, come to and I'm
just like, oh shit. I justfucking crashed and totaled the
car, and I'm about to go to jailand get my second DUI and my
fifth possession charge. And I'mlike, Oh, this is bad. And it
was like, instant panic. LuckilyI didn't get hurt, luckily I
(16:14):
didn't have to Narcan me. I justcame to and I was in the neck in
the ambulance on the way to thehospital. I remember, you know,
the police like, hey, we knowyou're on drugs. We have your
drug paraphernalia. You know youare gonna get a driving under
the influence charge, but sinceyou're in the hospital here,
we're not gonna take you in.
We're gonna write you a courtdate. And so I was like, okay,
(16:37):
look,I'm fucked. I just had a baby. I
can't talk to them. They don'tcare about me that I, you know,
just crashed my car. I just gotanother DUI, and now I'm
probably, I have another drugcharge. I just said I need help,
like I need to go to rehab atthis point. And what happened
was, you know, I didn't haveinsurance, I didn't have any
family support. I, you know,like a lot of people at that
(16:58):
point, I had no resources, so Iwas just like, I'm willing to do
whatever it takes, you know. Iwish I knew about beet shuva At
the time, or if this was anoption back then, because I
would have loved to come here.
And yeah, but, you know, I waswilling to go to the Salvation
Army, and that's what I startedlooking into, you know. And I
had a friend who I helped to getsober at one point, and was
(17:19):
dearest to me. And he said, Hey,I'm gonna put you in a treatment
program in Colorado, and you'regonna go out there, and you're
gonna complete this treatmentprogram, and I'm gonna pay for
you to go there, and the onlyway you can come back to Los
Angeles is if you complete theprogram and then takes finish
the steps yourself, the 12 Stepsof Alcoholics Anonymous, and
then take someone else throughthe steps, and that's the only
(17:41):
way you'll be able to leave. AndI said, I don't care. I'm
willing to do whatever it takes.
You know, I literally havenothing. Now, that's what I did.
And I went out there, and I wentinto this little mountain town
in Carbondale, Colorado, whichis about 40 minutes north of
Aspen, Colorado, and I reallybuilt a strong foundation for
myself that was built uponprinciples pretty much
(18:06):
surrounding the 12 Steps ofAlcoholics Anonymous, you know,
and I saw what was important inlife to me, and I learned a lot
about myself in that time. And Ijust I instilled a set of values
for myself and boundaries, youknow, for myself and what was
acceptable and what wasn't. AndI think in there, at some point,
I made a deal with God. And,yeah, it was pretty profound. I
(18:31):
think I had a spiritualawakening, for sure. It was like
that at that moment where it waslike, there was tears, and it's
like, I don't really cry thatlike, you know, it's hard for me
to cry. And I was, like, justtearing up, and I made a deal
with God that, like, you know,considering God gave me this
opportunity to a, be alive andB, be sober in a treatment
(18:51):
program and having a friend payfor it, you know. And this place
wasn't cheap, right? It wasn't aluxury place, but, you know,
it's a long term treatmentprogram, and I don't know, I
just made that deal with God,like I can't go out. And, you
know, there's been a there'sbeen many times since in this
sobriety, especially in thebeginning, where I had so many
opportunities to get loaded, andthere's so many reasons on why
(19:14):
should get loaded, and even towhere I had them in my hand, and
I was like, Oh, nope. And Iwould put it back down, because
I said, Remember that deal Imade with God? Like, I can't, I
gotta, I gotta hold true tothat, you know. So for me, dude,
you know, it was really big,like everybody says it's, I just
did what people told me to do,and which was work the steps,
(19:35):
you know, and I got a sponsor,and I really in depth work the
steps. And I worked on thefourth step for two hours a day,
like, I really, like, dove inand I wanted to get serious, and
I wanted to get this. And I wassick of building my life up and
burning it down, because mypattern was, get three years
sober, go out, get a year and ahalf sober, go out, get another
(19:56):
year sober, go out. And I was.
Sick of doing that. You know, atthis point, I had a child, and
you know, my dad was there forme when, you know, I grew up, I
have, I have great parents, youknow, they're very loving,
caring. And the idea of me notshowing up for my son as my dad
did for me, I felt like was justthe most selfish. Like, if I
(20:18):
were to do that, that would havebeen the most selfish decision
and that I could have ever made.
Because, you know, my dad wasthere for me, and he gave me a
life as much as he could, and Iwant to do the same for my son.
And so, you know, I just madethat choice where they said, you
know, find a higher power. Andyeah, I was raised in the
church. Did I really believe allthe stuff that was, you know, I
was told not necessarily. I hadto break all those beliefs down
(20:39):
and really come up with my ownsense of higher power. And like,
what is my higher power? One forme, you know, do I believe that
if I did something bad, myhigher power is going to punish
me? And I just had all thesebeliefs, you know, and I had to,
like, break all that down andset that aside, and you say the
set aside prayer, but I had toset all that stuff aside and
really, like come up with my ownHigher Power set or set around
(21:01):
rules and principles that Ibelieve that might you know how
my higher power wants me to besuccessful, he wants me to be
happy, he wants me to be loved,and he wants me to help others.
And it's not necessarily a guyin the sky that has long hair or
it's Jesus, it's just thisbeing, and I don't know what
they look like, but I just didwhat was said, and I created my
higher power. And I startedpraying to that higher power
(21:21):
daily and asking for guidanceand asking for help. And if I
was confused, scared or lost, Ilet my higher power know that,
and I, you know, I asked forthat guidance. And this this
far, it has worked right like Ihave. I could say, built the
life for myself that I've alwaysdreamed of, or I've always
wanted,you know, any goal that I've had
(21:44):
in sobriety,I've, I've met that goal, like
I've, I've achieved it, youknow. And again, it's not all
materialistic stuff. It was likehaving a girlfriend that you
love and care about, like, Ifound a great girlfriend, like,
I've had another child sincethat first child I just talked
about, you know, and I have therelationship with him. It's like
he's my He's four, but he'slike, my best friend, you know,
(22:05):
like I he's my world, he's mylife, like he is my number one
priority. And, you know, I wasworking in treatment, and I just
saw what was working and whatwasn't working within this
treatment industry, right? Yeah,yeah, we were just talking about
outside, about the about howimportant long term treatment
is, but it's, it's the treatmentindustry as a whole is a, it's
(22:27):
an odd place to be. It's justa broken system in a way, right?
Like, I think the model we haveis very outdated, and, you know,
especially for men, right? Ifyou look at men nationwide right
now, okay, men from the ageslike 18 to 35 or 38 I say 18 to
38 they are the most broken andlost they've ever been, right?
(22:50):
If you look at it, they theythey have no partner, they have
no career path, they don't havemany friends. You know, they are
at an all time low, and a lot ofthat is because technology,
whether it's Pornhub or videogames, you know, I think men are
afraid to talk to women. They'reafraid to approach women, right?
(23:14):
They're afraid to, you know, bemasculine. I guess you could
say, when I say masculine, notlike toxic masculinity. I mean,
like, they're just afraid to,like, be a man. And I think that
what I saw was a lot of guysjust struggling. And so I was
working in treatment, and I wasseeing this model of this 28 to
30, you know, 60 day, 90 daymodel, where people go in and
(23:36):
they're paying $100,000 for amonth of treatment, and they're
not really getting much out ofit. You don't leave that place
with a huge community. You don'tleave with like, a different
sense of self, normally, and ifyou do, it goes away pretty
quickly. Within a month, mostpeople are leaving treatment,
and they're going back to thesame people, places and things,
and so therefore you will getthe same results. And so I knew
(23:56):
a different way of getting soberthat I experienced in Colorado.
And I said, you know, I want tocreate something like that. And
when I it was maybe three, threeyears ago, I decided I want to
open a treatment program, andlet's start as a sober living
right? And we didn't have muchmoney. My friend had a little
(24:18):
bit of money, and my brother andhis fiance had a little bit of
money. And we just said, let'stake a risk. And we found this
property in Venice, and weinquired about it, and we toured
it, and the owners were like,Sure, make it into a sober
living like, whatever you wantto do with it. We don't care. We
just want, you know, Give us ourmoney. And I think we had like
(24:38):
$100,000 together. The securitydeposit on the property was like
60 grand, right? So, like, wedidn't have, you know, the
operational costs. It was like,it's either you're gonna burn
and turn really quickly, likeyou're gonna get some people in
and pay the rent, or it's gonnafail within three months. And
luckily, we were really able toget the property, get it
furnished. And just get peoplein, and it's worked out this
(25:01):
far, and now we havetransitioned more into a
treatment program, right? Kindof like the model that I went to
in Colorado, where, like, whenguys come in now, you know,
we're not a sober living likeyou come in and do a 90 day
intensive program where you'redoing individual therapy three
to four times a week for thefirst month, right? You're
seeing a psychiatrist. You'regetting on a good medication
(25:23):
regimen. You're going to the gymevery morning. Guys, yeah, well,
you know, we want the guys to beactive, so I don't care what it
is, if it's the gym or it's abeach run or it's rock climbing
or whatever, but it is veryoutdoor and life skills based,
you know, the guys are up by 730we do a coffee talk, which is
kind of like a morning check,and at 745 you do, you know,
your chore, which is, whetherit's trash or dishes, at eight,
(25:44):
we're at the gym. At 830 by 930you're back and that, you know,
we do that five days a week.
It's just, it's just grown, Iguess is what I'm saying. You
know, it became something wedidn't really know what it was
gonna become, but it becamesomething bigger than what we
thought itwould be. Yeah, it's a really
great house. I think there's acouple of things that you just
touched on. Just want to, wantto circle back on for a minute
when you were talking about God,you were saying about how it's a
(26:06):
gift. And I want to just reflecton that for a minute, because,
you know, I was thinking aboutit.
I was taking cakes this week,which is crazy, but crazy. It's
insane, dude. I'm like to seeyou where you were a
year ago. Is how you are now.
For a minute that was like, soyou were the guy that told me to
go to rehab. Can you explainthat story? Because I like
hearing it from you.
(26:28):
Well, dude, like, you know, it'svery similar to the friend that
we are talking about who's onthe streets right now. And when
I say that, I mean, like, youwere loved by so many people.
You had so much potential to dowhatever you want in life. And I
can see that, and many othercould see that, right? You had a
lot of gifts, and the gifts werehelping people and being able to
communicate a message to people,which you're doing right now
through a podcast, and you do itin many other ways as well in
(26:51):
life, but you just had a lot ofpotential. You're loved by a lot
of people. And I just saw youkeep doing the same thing over
and over again, right? It's likewhere you had a lot of friends
who would like pick you up, butyou would like go into a sober
living relapse, either give youa second chance or kick you out,
and then you go into another oneand relapse, and it was just
this dance. And I'm like, bro,like, you are not stable enough
emotionally right now to staysober. You need treatment, right
(27:14):
there is a time and a place fortreatment, and that's where you
were at. And that's why I waslike, hey dude, like, I think he
justgotta, like, on the roof, yeah,
we were on the roof of the beachhouse. Yeah, we went up there,
and you were like, I don't knowwhat to do. And I just said, I
think you need to go to rehab.
And I know you don't have a lotof resources, but let's find
some. And luckily, we have agood friend group, and they
found you this resource.
(27:36):
Beethove, and this place isfucking amazing and beautiful
and has such good energy, and Iwas just really impressed by
you, because most people, when Isay you have to go to treatment,
they're like, no, no, no, Idon't need to go to treatment.
I'm good. I don't need that.
I'll go to detox for three daysor five days, and then I'll go
into a sober living it's likepeople are so treatment
resistant, but it's like they'reso blind to the fact they don't
understand it's like, Dude, ittakes your body a month to heal,
(27:58):
your mind a month to heal, to bestable enough to even stay sober
and absorb any information onhow to stay sober after that.
And it's like, people don'tgrasp that concept they like.
And I get it. I was that kidonce too, where I'm like, fuck
that. I'm not going to treatmentlike I'm good. But it just
doesn't work that way. You know,it's like, if you've been out
for a year, it's like, yourbody's gonna take almost a year
(28:19):
to heal, and your mind is gonnatake a year to heal. And people
that don't grasp that concept,and I was so impressed by you,
because you just said, okay, itwas like, shocking to me. You're
just like, Okay, sure. And I waslike, wow, that was fucking
easy. Okay. Like, that's not theresponse I was anticipating. And
you went into treatment, dude,and you look at you now, and
that's why it's like you're sucha prime example of if you just
(28:42):
throw up the white flag like Idid. I said, I'm willing to go
to the Salvation Army like samething. I didn't care. I just
wanted I knew what sobriety was,and I knew I had a lot of
friends who were in sobriety,and they wanted to fucking see
me shine. And I I just said yes.
And same as you, you said yes,and you've been able to build
your life up to where it is nowtoday. And that person that I
(29:04):
saw in you is now here, the Sebthat I knew was inside of you is
finally arrived. Yeah, right,and it's and now you're able to
show up as a father. Now you'reable to show up as a friend and
a brother, and you will dowhatever else you want to do in
life, and you will be successfulat it.
Well, yeah. Well, thank you forthat. But I like, I like how
(29:27):
we're going back to the wholething about this being a gift,
because I've had, I've beenhaving thinking about this a lot
this week, which was Yes, I saidyes to you. But if I'm being
honest, if I'm being totallylike I you know when Harris,
who's your Sober Living managerwho runs the house for your
guys? When he drove me here,I'll be honest, I didn't feel
(29:47):
any lower than I'd regularlyfelt. You know, I didn't have a
white light moment. I didn't saythis is gonna be it. You know, I
had hang out the white flag, butthere wasn't no preaching on a
hill. I honestly felt like. Herewe go again, right? And so I
have to believe, I absolutelyhave to believe that God did
(30:08):
something for me, that I can dofor myself, that I was given a
gift. Sure, I felt down anddepressed, but my whole life was
being down and depressed. Itjust felt like okay now the
treatment center. I didn't feellike it was gonna work. I didn't
feel any more determined. Ididn't feel anything different,
other than the fact, okay, I'vethrown up the white flag again.
(30:29):
And so, like, when I think aboutit, I'm like, This was a gift.
This was something that was sofreely given to me. And for some
reason, God decided that mysuffering was over and it wasn't
obvious to me, right? Which iswhy long term treatment, I
think, is so important. Because,like, it didn't dawn on me that
this might actually startworking until maybe month four
(30:50):
or five, all I did was go, Idon't know shit. Theron thinks I
need to go to rehab. I'll go torehab. And I did that in all
areas of my daily life, whichwas, Oh, I'm not that hungry.
Oh, they're telling me to getup. I should probably go and
eat. Oh, they're telling me togo to group. I should probably
go to group. That's all I did.
Yeah, I had, I just, I hadresigned to the fact that I had
no good ideas. And, you know,for the first six months, I had
(31:16):
to ask people if I should tie myshoes or, like, what like I
felt. But I was willing to takethat level of advice in all
areas of my life, because I hadthrown up the white flag, you
know, and it looks different foreverybody. But for me, it was
just following, you know, I say,you know, I say here, like,
(31:36):
after night, I spent a lot oftime with the guys here, and I
this, this place is, even thoughI'm not a resident anymore, I'm
still here pretty much everyday, because I don't think I can
ever repay what this place evergave out to me. And if I can
help one person a year, that'sthe fucking That's the ticket
for me, right? And, um, and, andpeople ask me like, or I try to
(31:56):
tell them, like, how you'resuccessful in treatment. And I
tell them frankly, you don'tneed to come here and be a model
citizen. You don't even have tocome here and do very much. You
do just have to fucking show up.
You just have to follow somevery basic rules of bedtimes,
(32:17):
this time wake ups this time,this is when you're gonna eat,
you're gonna go to group, andyou just, you don't even have to
like I remember, for my firstmonth here, I didn't
particularly share in groups,but I just showed up. And over
time, I became more willing, andI could see it, but I just
started saying yes, and Istopped fighting. I just came to
(32:38):
the fact that I'm utterlymental. And, you know, I can't
decide on salad dressing. Howthe fuck am I going to decide,
like, on the course of my life?
Fuck out of here, dude. I needreal when I go to treatment. I
need. I need. And I think thisis we need very minimal decision
making, which is why, when we'retalking about our friend, like,
long term treatment, you know,or long term structure, long
(33:02):
term community might be thebetter word. Long term community
is, is the fucking is theticket? That is
one of the main ticket recipe,like pieces of the recipe, I
agree. But one of the biggestkey points you said is you just
say yes. And the people I seewho have success with, you know,
staying abstinent from drugs andalcohol for extended period of
(33:24):
time are the ones who just say,yes, yeah. And, you know,
there's a lot of sayings that Itell people and live by and go
by, and one of them is, youknow, I believe life and or
sobriety, it's about doingthings you don't want to do.
Yeah, right. That is the key inrecipe to staying sober long
term is, do I want to read the12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous
(33:48):
in the big book? I don't. Ireally don't. I don't want to
read any book right now. Youknow, like, I don't do I want to
go to meetings and sit in acircle and, like, listen to
people share and talk and heartheir problems or hear their
feelings. Of course not. Whywould I? I don't want to sponsor
people. I don't want to go tomeetings. I don't want to read
the book. I don't want to do anyof this shit. I don't want to
(34:09):
write out every person I've everbeen mad at or resentful at and
like how I harmed them. Like,that's horrible. But again, it's
just me saying yes, and it's medoing the things that I have to
do to stay sober. Because ifeverybody else does it and it
works for them, why wouldn't itwork? Wouldn't it work for me?
And when you can surrender tothat fact, I think you will be
(34:30):
in a lot better place and have alot more success with sobriety.
And it's, it comes down to this.
It's like, you know,losers do what they want and
winners do what they have to.
That's just the facts of life.
You know, that's a fuckingZinger. Yeah, it's the truth.
It's so true. And, you know,people all seem to understand
(34:51):
too. It's like, Look, dude, likein life, sobriety, sober or not,
you're gonna have good days,you're gonna have bad days, you
might have a horrible week, andyou might be down in the. And
feeling depressed for a week.
But that doesn't mean you haveto go use or get high over it,
because, you know, a week fromnow, or that week, a week from
then, you could be in an amazingplace and getting people to
understand like you're gonnahave ups and downs, right? I
(35:13):
want my life to look like I'm arealist, right? So I want my
life to look like a good stock.
If you look at any good stock onthe stock market, it goes up and
then it dips, right? But then itkeeps going up, and it's always
continuously rising with dips.
And I think if your life canlook like that, it's like a
continuous rise with dips andUPS and ups, as long as it's
going up and down a little bitand up, like you're in good
(35:36):
shape, right? Like you're gonnahave bad days. And so,
yeah, we tend to think that lifeis like a perfect 45 degree
angle, and it's just notcorrect. You actually think that
about careers. When I wouldthink about that in careers,
it's like, it's just not noone's career or no one's life.
Does this perfect fucking arrowup 45 degrees 100%
dude, like last year. I mean,honestly, it was one of, like,
(35:58):
the hardest years of my life insobriety, just like so hard,
emotionally, mentally, right? Idon't know why it just was, it
just was really difficult, but Iunderstand that there is other,
there's another side to that,right? And to get through, you
know, the good times you got togo, you know, to get to the good
times, you got to go through thehard times. And it's always like
(36:21):
a test from the universe, dude.
It's like, how I feel. It'slike, let me push you to the max
and see what you can withstand.
And how far can I push you untilyou're either gonna break. But
if you stay, I'm gonna rewardyou, right? If you get through
this hard time, I'm gonna rewardyou. And I have that mindset,
and I try to really keep that sowhen I am in dark times or
things are really hard, and I'mjust like, This is a test, this
(36:43):
is a test. This is a test. AndI'm being pushed, because if I
can get through this, it will beeven better than it is, you
know, before it was bad. And soI try to keep that mindset,
you know, yeah, I want to touchon one more thing, on community
and what I love about whatyou're doing at little beach
house. So I started by bringinga van on Thursdays about six
months ago, right? And I've now,Steve brings the van, and that
(37:07):
was very intentional, because Ilove what you're doing there.
And I bring the van because Ithink it's important for people
that are in treatment to seethat other communities exist.
I'm looking I got to know Iexist. I'm on the way. I've been
on the west side. Aa, so I havethat. But I think about the
other people that come intotreatment and not saying that
(37:28):
they won't remain a part of thecommunity here, but they might
have other interests, or maybethey don't have and I think it's
important for people to havelike while they're in treatment,
to see other thrivingcommunities that they can go be
part 100% they need be inspiredtoo. Yeah, yeah. And I think you
need to I realized about sixmonths ago that I was super
lucky that I knew the right WestSide aa stuff. But then I would
(37:50):
meet people in treatment whothis is their first time getting
sober, and they don't reallyunderstand that you need a
couple communities to balanceyou out. You need a place to go.
And so, yeah, we arrive, we cometo your meeting every Thursday
at seven and and I think it'sreally helped a lot of people.
And we also got to give you ashout out, because you guys made
it co ed for us, or not, maybefor us, but you made it co Ed,
(38:12):
which was, that was awesome,too. Like, I think that's
important too. We're veryimportant, especially the van I
bring. It's a co Ed van. SoI love that. It's, it's co Ed
and, you know, I got sober in a,you know, one point in the sober
living where it was male andfemale, and some of the females
that I was in that place withare still some of my best
friends today, and I learned alot from them. I learned to have
(38:36):
a relationship with a femalethat wasn't romantic or sexual,
right? Like, I learned how toalmost have a sister that I
never had, because never had asister. Right? Like, I didn't
know how to talk to girls. LikeI my only way to talk to girls
was like to flirt, but like toactually have a female as a
friend. You know, I learned thatin in this program, and my
sisters in AA, and so, you know,everything I've done in life or
(38:57):
accomplished or like anywhereI've been, I owe it to sobriety
and getting sober. And, youknow, dude, the west side, like
you said, These people need tosee what's out there, because
the west side, aa, is worldrenowned. Dude, it really is.
Like, I've been to meetings allover, like you I've been to
meetings in the UK, like you canname it, Florida, New York,
like, fucking everywhere. Andnothing really compares. And so
(39:18):
being able to have people comefrom wherever they're from, and
come to treatment and show themthat, and have them get inspired
by people who they meet in therooms is such a priceless piece
to this as well. And that's howi That's why I stuck around in a
I met dudes. I'm like, damn.
Like that guy. He's doing it. Heseems pretty cool. He seems like
(39:42):
he has a life that I want, like,I'm if he can do I'm just going
to do what he does, and if thatincludes his a thing, like,
let's do it. And people need tobe exposed to that. Yeah, it's
huge.
Hey, we'll be right back. Butbefore we do please consider
helping us grow this podcast.
You could do that a number ofdifferent ways. You can hit
follow on. Spotify. You can rateus, review us, but what would be
really awesome would be if youcould share this with one other
(40:04):
addict or alcoholic that youthink could get something out
this podcast. If everyone didthat, we would grow this thing
tremendously. But as always,thank you for listening and
thank you for your support.
Yeah, so we we ask every guestthis, as we come to a close,
what would you tell littleTheron today, if you could give
him some words of wisdom,give up the fight.
(40:30):
Just give up the fight. Your waydoesn't work,
plain and simple. It's like youyou're gonna try every way to to
do it, and you're going to tryto do it your way in every
little you know, way possible,and it's not going to work, and
the only way is just followthese simple directions and
(40:50):
steps that are already laid out.
And if I could have stayed sobera long time ago, I don't even
know where I'd be today, like Imy life would probably look even
better, right? Like me, dude,there you go. You get it, you
know, and so, but, you know, I'mso grateful for where I'm at
today, in the sense of, like,all that stuff I went through,
(41:11):
bro, and all that stuff you wentthrough and you went through,
like, we needed to have thesethings happen to us to make us
the people we are today, to makeus strong enough to be able to,
like, partake in life and handleeverything that's thrown at us,
yeah?
Or talk about us gonna get ourbuddy and fucking pull him out
of a homeless camp maybe later.
You know,yeah, I saw, yeah. We were
thinking. I'm like, like, mymind still goes to places where
(41:33):
I'm like, Man, I want to do somerogue shit. Like, I want to,
like, pull up. We get a FiveGuys, yeah? Like, we're we
literally, like, we got the zipties ready, we fucking throw
them in the van, and we beat himup if we have to, and we zip
time, and we take him to fuckingtreatment, right? Because people
like that. They're too importantto not be sober, in my opinion,
right? Like they like I said itwas like, you, you have too much
(41:55):
to offer. You have too much togive. You have too many people
who love you for you to be doingwhat you're doing right now. And
I start to get a little pissedoff, where I'm like, All right,
this is crazy. Like, let's justgo fucking beat this dude up and
bring him to rehab. He may needthat, and maybe you'll thank us
later, but he's not gonna die.
Yeah, you know, and I don'tknow. I just, I just wish there
(42:16):
was more we can do. And so we'regonna, we'll see. Stay
tuned for next week, maybe we'llhave some updates, I hope so.
Yeah, thanks for coming intoday.
Thank you guys. Bye.
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