April 15, 2024 • 45 mins
Unlock the full potential of your travel rewards as we navigate the luxury landscapes with Spencer Howard, the expert who turned credit card points into his personal gateway to extravagant adventures. Our chat with Spencer reveals the art of upgrading your travel from mundane to first-class without breaking the bank. From the comfort of lie-flat seats to the allure of upscale dining, we cover it all. Learn the strategies that can transform your family vacations into experiences draped in luxury, all by utilizing the competitive nature of credit card rewards programs to your advantage.
Ever wonder how a side hustle can morph into a thriving business, even amidst a global crisis? Spencer's journey from the political arena to the pinnacle of travel luxury epitomizes the entrepreneurial spirit, proving that dedication to your passion can pave the way to success. We delve into the evolving world of travel planning, the significance of timing, and how the internet has catalyzed the growth of niche markets. Join us as we dissect the complexities of credit card points systems and share personal stories that illuminate the variety of ways to make luxury travel an attainable reality.
Wrapping up, we extend an open invitation to the Side Hustle City community, where the entrepreneurial flame is fanned by stories like Adam's, offering lessons on turning side projects into main hustles. It's not just about the hustle; it's about the community and the shared knowledge that propels us forward. So whether you're a seasoned hustler or just getting your feet wet, this episode promises to stoke your ambition and equip you with the actionable insights to elevate your side hustle game.
As you're inspired to embark on your side hustle journey after listening to this episode, you might wonder where to start or how to make your vision a reality. With a team of experienced marketing professionals and a track record of helping clients achieve their dreams, we are ready to assist you in reaching your goals. To find out more, visit www.reversedout.com.
Subscribe to Side Hustle City and join our Community on Facebook
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to Side Hustle City and thanks for
joining us.
Our goal is to help you connectto real people who found
success turning their sidehustle into a main hustle, and
we hope you can too.
I'm Adam Kaler.
I'm joined by Kyle Stevie, myco-host.
Let's get started, all right.
(00:24):
Welcome back, everybody, to theSide Hustle City podcast.
Today we've got our specialguest, spencer Howard.
How are you doing, spencer?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Doing well.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Adam, thanks for having me Well before the show
we realized you're a Kentuckyguy, so you get points, and
we're talking about credit cardpoints.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
You're ahead of the game.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I don't like the points.
That's right.
That's right.
So you've got perspective beingfrom Kentucky and now here you
are, working in luxury travel.
So how did how did you getinvolved in in the points game
in the in the travel credit cardpoints game?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yeah, for sure I some of it's just dumb luck, like
many things I feel like in mylife, but it's uh, I was working
in politics for about a decade.
My last political job, we uh,we were actually encouraged to
take our days off, which isunusual in politics.
Um, and at that point I waslike I just got to find flights
to go somewhere Let me find thecheapest thing and stumbled upon
(01:20):
a website talking about airlinemiles and I was like, well, I
don't travel a lot.
But then they mentionedsomething about credit cards.
I was like, well, I have acredit card and I mean, this was
like the beginning of goingdown the rabbit hole and I think
I ended up spending like fourhours a night for like six
months like reading credit cardrules, terms and conditions,
airline rules for booking withpoints and not the normal path
(01:44):
and not necessarily the path Iwould recommend for everybody.
But I got obsessed.
So that's how we started.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, but you were working in before that, before
you really got into this.
Is this like a full time thingfor you now?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
This is full time now .
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Yeah, wow, so you've created your own job,
essentially.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah, I mean I freelanced writing for some
large websites that talk aboutcredit card points and, um,
airline miles, hotel points.
Uh did that for several years,um, and then, at the beginning
of 2021, uh decided to take whatwas my hobby straight to the
points, which is just a freenewsletter, and make it my
full-time job.
Um, yeah, I mean nothing likestarting a travel business when
(02:25):
people aren't traveling becauseof a global pandemic.
So it was, uh, it was, it was abit of a, it was a bit of a
move, but it's uh, it's workingout.
I think people people kind ofunderstood we were going to be
traveling soon and, um, yeah,just been going since then.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Well, things picked up.
I mean, I think right nowpeople are a little hesitant to
spend money and I could tellbecause you know I do my little
Turo business I bought a car andI put it on Turo, mainly to
just let people on the podcastknow if it was worth the money
or not.
And a couple of years ago itwas great, you know, there was
pandemic money going around andpeople were spending it and they
were like, yeah, let me go buy,you know, rent a nice car.
(03:02):
I'm thinking about buying oneof these, let me rent it out on
Turo and I usually I'll drop itoff to the airport in Cincinnati
that's actually in Kentucky anddrop it off to people, and it's
a great business.
I mean, I'm renting this thing$200 a day, you know.
And you know, maybe it'sbecause it's a winter right now.
I don't know what.
(03:26):
What are you?
Are you feeling that too rightnow, or what do you think?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I think towards the end of a year I typically see
people slow down, um, mostly, Ithink, because they're buying
like Christmas presents andwhatnot.
Um, and then January peoplestart going oh, I should plan
travel for this year, and I seelike a quick, like burst, and
then it starts to kind ofbalance out and usually I end up
hearing from people in likelate May where they're like I
(03:53):
want to go somewhere this summerand I'm like you are very late
to the party, but it's, I get it.
Not everybody's thinking abouttravel all the time, like I am.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah, well, I mean, this is your full-time thing,
which is amazing that, I meanyou're, you're kind of doing
what everybody wants to do, likeI went and spoke to some kids
at my high school yesterday andI go, you know, I'm telling them
, hey, don't, don't trade yourtime for money, right, don't be
an indentured servant is what Itold him.
Just to shock value, right, and, uh and and and own assets and
(04:22):
do all this stuff right.
And they all want to beinfluencers.
I think every kid nowadayswants to be a YouTube influencer
, a TikTok influencer or one ofthese things.
You're kind of living the dream, because I think when you break
that down, it's not necessarilyabout being an influencer or
whatever.
It's about writing your ownticket, essentially being your
(04:46):
own boss, doing your own thingin an industry that you love.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I am still, I meanstill obsessed, the same same as
I was in 2015 when I discoveredthis was a possibility Um, and
I mean I love, I love it.
It's still hard work I probablyworked too many hours, uh, just
, but I do love it.
So it's hard to stop sometimes,so, um, but yeah, and I think
there's and there's a lot of newopportunities these days with
(05:14):
the way the internet has evolved, for for good or bad.
I know there's, you know, lotsof downsides, but there's a lot
of upsides, and the ability tokind of do what you want is, I
think, a lot easier than it usedto be.
I think the permissionstructure is a bit different.
It's not, as I know, you're notrequired to wait in line as
much.
You can kind of get intosomething, do the research put
(05:35):
in the work, put it out therefor the world and kind of see if
it connects, and I think that'sgreat and that's kind of what I
did.
I'm not I always say I'm kindof an antiviral creator.
Um, I don't create things thatare exciting.
I'm more of an educationalperson.
I like to kind of dig in and,you know, get into the weeds on
things and um make sure peoplekind of know how they can go
(05:58):
travel, um, rather than justkind of shock them with
something amazing that I did.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Yeah, yeah, well, I mean I'm, you know, my wife.
She's big time into travel.
She loves it, especially Disneystuff.
She would we.
She wants me to move to GoldenOak so that she can.
I don't know if you know.
You probably know Golden Oakcause you're in there.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Oh, you know, I'm not a Disney person.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Well, yeah, if you got, if you got four and a half
million dollars for a starterhome, you can move to gold.
But it's just, yeah, four and ahalf million, yeah, this is
what she wants.
She's like this is what youneed to get for me.
And I'm like, oh, yeah, okay,what do they start at?
And she's showing me the 10million dollar ones.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Right, so, but but essentially, do it, do it right
do it, right, right, but.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
But you're on disney campus, right, you spend some
ungodly amount of money for youknow association dues and all
that stuff.
But you get like a pass todisney, you get all this stuff
and that's kind of life shewants to live.
So she's just like enthralledwith disney, with universal,
with you know amusement parks ingeneral.
She wants you just have fun allthe time.
You know, and I think it's alot of people have a dream when
(06:56):
they're going on a vacation andyou know once that dream is over
.
A week or a week and a halflater, or however long you're on
your trip.
Now you're hit with the bill.
Right, the bill comes due, or,hopefully, you've been saving.
But people need.
They're always looking for away to get an edge right when
they're traveling.
How do I get an edge?
How do I save a little bit ofmoney?
You know you got kids and stuff.
(07:18):
It just gets that much moreexpensive.
So who do you normally dealwith?
Are you you dealing with peoplethat are this expensive?
So who do you normally dealwith?
Are you you dealing with peoplethat are this is their?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
strategy is like I just need to save an extra
couple hundred bucks.
It's a.
It varies, Um, I think a lot ofmy well, a lot of my audience
is into flying business andfirst-class internationally and
those ticket prices are.
I mean, my favorite example isif you want to fly like round
trip to Japan, it could be liketwenty, two thousand dollars.
If you want to fly first class,business can be, you know,
(07:49):
fifteen, ten thousand, whatever.
I mean it's yeah, it's, it'spricey.
Even I mean going to Europe, itcan be anywhere from like on a
good day Eighteen is a reallygood day is eighteen hundred
dollars for a round trip ticket,and on a more normal day we can
be up in the fours and thefives.
So, and then you look at likepeak periods and it gets even
higher.
So for me it's just a matter oflike how can I kind of help
(08:11):
people get the experience thatthey wouldn't normally have,
give them a taste of somethingdifferent, like I think so many
people work so hard, and thenit's just, they think about
travel and it's like, oh, I gotto like fly to get there, and
it's just like a drag becausethey're going to sit in economy.
Nothing wrong with sitting ineconomy.
If that's like how you want touse your points, go forth.
I'm 6'3", I like space, I don'tfit in small spaces, and so
(08:35):
I've just been trying to helppeople kind of enhance their
travel just a bit and make it alittle bit nicer no-transcript
(09:13):
there for a minute.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Next thing, you know, he gets upgraded.
I gotta watch him the rest ofthe time on this flight through
the little curtain, drinkingcocktails, leaning back.
But he's like you.
He's like probably six, two,six, three, um, but he's a
bigger guy, so you know.
I didn't get too mad at him.
But here I am on a 16 hourwhatever in world flight.
(09:35):
I was on, tied up in this thing.
But when you're flying likethat, being in first class is a
game changer yeah, it's uh's, aand this is like a, this is a
very.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
It's a distinction that nobody thinks about.
But business and first classare different and you're not
internationally.
Um, business class to be islike that's.
I think that should be the goalfor most people get a lie, flat
seat and just some space.
Uh, first class is like you.
Just, you basically want to flyprivate, but that's just a
bridge too far, yeah, I mean.
But it does truly change.
Like I, I always look at it aslike I don't want to be
(10:09):
miserable thinking about gettingsomewhere and I don't want to
be miserable getting to theairport and getting on the plane
, just want the whole journey tobe kind of enjoyable, whether
that means you just want to goto sleep as soon as you get on
the plane, whether it means youwant some nicer food, whether
that means you want a glass ofchampagne, whatever.
That is like just a betterexperience.
So like I don't know, it makesit feels like a true vacation,
(10:30):
like you're, you're starting offnice, you're feeling good,
rather than like now I have torecover for six days because I
was sitting in the back on a 15hour flight.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Oh my God, and travel can totally be like that, right
, and then you get there and youknow you're finally drag your
bags through the lobby, you getyour ticket, you go up an
elevator, you walk a littlefurther just to get to your room
and you finally get to dropyour stuff off.
You're ready to go to sleep.
I mean it's, it's not a, it'snot like yeah, why should your
travel be that painful andstressful when you're trying to
(11:01):
relax?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Yeah, and with a credit card points, there's a
lot of opportunities to be ableto book these business and first
class flights, especiallybusiness class, even for
families.
I mean, I've I, one of mynewsletter readers booked a
family of eight business classto Europe?
Um, they're, they're not likework travelers are not on the
road all the time, it's justthrough strategic earning of
credit card points.
Um, so that's the kind of thoseare the big wins that I like to
(11:25):
see, um, but you know, andagain, like I do like to
emphasize, that just taking thetrip is, I mean, can be special
enough.
I've flown an economy.
It's fine.
Like if you, if that's the, ifthat's the opportunity you have,
like go for it.
Like, if points are going toget you an economy seat, or
maybe a bunch of economy seatsand or a bunch of economy seats
and or a bunch of economy trips,like go for it.
It's just to me, it's justfiguring out how you or what you
(11:47):
care about with travel andputting your points to use to
get that.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah, and now tell people the strategy, Like I
think a lot of people Iunderstand it because I've kind
of looked into it.
You know it looks like you'vebeen featured on the points guy.
He's a very popular person tofollow.
I mean you've been on Forbes,Travel and Leisure, Business
Insider, Washington Post.
I mean the list goes on and onhere.
But explain to people theindustry like this, this just
(12:12):
became a thing maybe I don'tknow, 10 years ago or something
like that.
People really started to makethis a thing, but it's become a
big deal and credit cardcompanies are competing with
each other, on, on, you knowdifferent kinds of programs that
they do, because it's justcutthroat.
It's cutthroat industry, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, I mean it's.
I love competition, so that'sI'm happy for them to compete
for our business and find waysto reward us for using their
products, and that's yeah.
So for me it's basicallyseveral banks have transferable
points programs where you cantransfer those points into, uh,
other airlines and hotels, andthey're all trying to kind of
(12:52):
get the best partners and havethe best airline partnerships
and they run promos fortransfers.
I mean they're they've got likedifferent bonus categories for
credit cards.
Each one, each bank is likereally pushing to kind of
incentivize you to come bankwith them and ideally they want
you to do all your banking withthem.
But it's, yeah, I mean, theindustry's wild.
I think it's it's changed sinceI've been in it since 2016,.
(13:16):
But it's yeah, there's more andmore people from different
backgrounds kind of sharingtheir experiences, traveling and
showing how they do things, andit's I don don't know, it's a
lot of fun to watch, um, andit's just kind of fun to see
even more people kind of takingadvantage of these opportunities
that I think often gooverlooked or not even
overlooked.
They just don't even know theyexist.
A lot of it's just you gottalike, oh, put it in front of
(13:37):
somebody to go.
Oh hey, you can do this.
And the first time you're likewait, what?
That's a thing I think mostpeople are like I don't travel,
I'm not a road warrior, I'm notgoing to earn any points and I'm
like that's the 90s, this isthe 2020s, like you earn points
with credit cards, like that'swhere it happens and that's
where the opportunity is.
Don't get me wrong Roadwarriors can still earn plenty
(13:58):
of hotel points and airlinemiles, but it's not exclusive to
them anymore.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Right?
Well, there's a guy also onYouTube, Graham Stephan, and you
might know him.
He's a finance influencer, he'sa realtor in California and he
saves every dime.
He drinks his coffee black, hemakes it at home.
He never goes to Starbucks.
He's a big points guy, butthat's not his main thing.
He's just mostly talking aboutreal estate and he's bringing
(14:24):
people on like Mr Wonderful andhe's at that level now.
But the guy's still drinkinghis coffee black at his house
and maybe throws a little milkin it every once in a while.
But he's a big saver and, hey,I'll invest my money instead of
wasting it and giving it toStarbucks.
I'll put it into something else.
Well People like him, peoplelike me.
(14:45):
I'm also a cheapskate.
I wouldn't say a cheapskate.
I'm very, very frugal and Idon't like to buy things unless
they make me money.
Right?
So if I can, if I can buythings and earn benefits somehow
from buying those things, thatI have to buy, no matter what.
I have multiple businesses.
You know some people also doblue collar guys.
You know, they've got to buytools, They've got to.
(15:08):
I've got to buy computersoftware.
I've got to buy a lot of things.
Right, I got to buy thoseanyway.
Why not figure out a way tostack programs or stack points
to benefit from that Right?
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Absolutely.
It's.
Uh, I think most people go intoit thinking, oh, I shouldn't
have credit cards.
Credit cards mean debt and Iget that.
And if you struggle with kindof controlling the spending and
not spending because you have acredit limit, don't, don't get
into the game.
It's a game.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
It's a hobby, it's not like this is not.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
This is a nice to have, not a need to have.
I don't want anybody going intodebt because they were chasing
points.
That's silly, it's just notworth it.
But if you treat your creditcard like a debit card and this
was a big mindset shift for mewhen I first got into it because
I thought that way I was like Idon't need the extra credit
just to spend for no reason.
But once I realized I couldjust treat the credit card like
(16:02):
a debit card, that was a bigkicker for me, where it's like
oh, just pay it off every month,Just like I immediately am
paying off the debit card.
So that, to me, is where thebenefit is.
Like you still want to only bespending on what you need.
You just want to get somethingout of it instead of nothing.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Exactly, you're spending this money anyway, yeah
.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yeah, debit card, cash, whatever, I'm like, ok,
you don't get anything.
And then you tell me that if Igo to this restaurant and I get
three or four X points and I canuse those points later for a
trip to Europe Great, let's dothat.
Um, if, if I've got businessexpenses for an event or
whatever I mean I have friendswho run digital ads for a living
and they, they earn so manypoints.
(16:44):
Oh, I need to start doing that.
Yeah, it's, uh, it's, uh, it'sI would call it printing points.
Um, it is insane becausethere's two credit cards that
offer, or there's what.
Two, one or two credit cardsare in like three, four X on all
your digital ad spend andyou're just like, oh, okay,
that's an easy way to do.
I mean, some of these guys arespending a month they pay.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
You send them a bill, they pay it off at the end of
the month and boom yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yeah, so I mean I own an ad agency so I get it.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
I mean, I've got somebody in California that does
most of my ad spend for me.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
But I can almost guarantee you he's doing this
strategy.
I was going to say he's earningall the points.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Oh, he's earning all the points I need to bring that
in-house.
Here's what you Sorry, mike,don't tell him.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
I sent you.
He's going to be so upset withme.
Oh yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
but that's the thing Like and you don't even know.
And a lot of your clients arepeople like that or they're, you
know, wealthier individuals,their business people and
they're, you know, they've got acompany card or something Right
.
But the average individual, theaverage person, can still kind
of do this, and I would considerthis a side hustle because
you're getting free stuff.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah, yeah it's.
I always tell people it's notfree, it's just heavily reduced.
Yeah, heavily reduced.
Well, you got to buy something.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yeah, yeah, and maybe a free hotel night, or maybe
you get a hotel or you get a,you get a discount on a flight
or you get whatever, but it'smoney you would have been
spending.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Yeah, and to me, I think there's a lot of different
approaches.
I think and it depends whereyou are in your, I'll say,
financial life when I first gotinto points, I was working in
politics.
When they didn't, they didn'treally pay you a lot, and so for
(18:29):
me it was like I got to, I wantto cover costs so that I can
actually go on the trip and,coming, you know, as you make a
little bit more money, it's like, ok, I want to cover flight
costs or hotel costs so that Ican go to a really nice meal at
this really great restaurant, uh, or do whatever experience.
Some people are into adventuresports and they want to pay for
whatever something.
I mean some people want to go,uh like, drive doom buggies in
the desert in the middle east,like it's going to cost some
money, okay.
But if you've used points tocover your flights or possibly
your hotels, or at least part ofyour hotels, like now all of a
sudden those become moreaffordable because you haven't
(18:54):
used the money you would have onthe flights.
So I think it's, I think it'sgreat.
I think, like I say, it'senhancing your travel.
It doesn't.
It can be simply just to savemoney, but it can also be to
just get you more experiencesthat you want.
To save money, but it can alsobe to just get you more
experiences that you want.
Um, it's really.
I mean, I have I have readerswho use points for flights only
(19:16):
and then they go pay for luxuryhotels because they didn't pay
for the flights.
I'm like that's great.
I have other P.
I have other people that arejust like I'm going to use
points for both flights andhotels, and then I'm going to
spend money on some Michelinstar meal just to like try it,
and I'm like, hey, what?
I mean, if you're a foodie, gofor it.
There's like, why not?
And that's how I look at it.
There's just, it's kind of a.
It's almost like a kind ofcreate your own adventure or
(19:37):
choose your own adventure game,um, and it's just a matter of
prioritizing for yourself what,what you want to get out of it.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
So my wife, she, she's okay with not spending
crazy money on hotels, right,but me, doesn't need that four
million dollar house.
Yeah, I know it's like, yeah,and it's mostly because it's by
disney, like and uh, yeah, we'llhave to figure that one out.
I don't know that's gonnahappen.
But she, she, she says, don'tsay it won't happen, because the
universe is not gonna be happywith you.
So that's her thing shemanifests, right.
(20:06):
So, but?
But when I the last time I wentsomewhere without her, I ended
up at a hotel next to a truckstop, in every room, and I was
in a non-smoking room and itstill smelled like smoking,
right.
So when I'm on my own, I'm likewhat's?
I look on the map and I'm likethe cheapest one.
I don't care where I stay.
I grew up in the hood Like I'll,I'll, I'll stay in the $20
(20:28):
hotel.
I don't care.
Right, and that is not herstyle, right?
She is not into that at all.
So she called me up.
She's like where'd you end upstaying?
And I'm I tell her about it.
I was like, ah, messed up.
She's like see what happenswhen you don't travel with me.
But you know, doing somethinglike what you're talking.
Talking about, I would be assomebody who's this cheap if I
(20:49):
could find a way to stay in anice hotel, because I'm always
like who the hell's spendingthis money?
Like who's out here spending?
I look at these prices and I'mlike 700 a night.
For who the hell spends 700 anight?
It's these people.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
You should try it.
I think you should try it onceand then and have some
conversations with them and seewhat they're up to.
Great networking opportunityfor you that is the thing.
Yes, it's a business expense.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
That's true, it is a business expense, so yeah, but
who are the?
Who are the folks that want tospend a thousand?
Like who's the guy at the BurjKhalifa?
Or the?
What is it the one?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
who's that guy?
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Burj Al Arab.
Who's that guy?
Who's Rob?
Like I was in Dubai, I was likewho's spending $5,000 a night
to be in these hotels?
Do you?
I mean, do you know thesepeople?
Do you interact with?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
these folks Maybe not $5,000 a night usually, but I
mean I have client.
I do hotel bookings as well,like luxury hotel bookings for
clients as a travel advisorCause I have access to some
programs that add additionalperks.
Still, looking for the value iswhat I like to say.
Yeah, just to get you a littlebit more, more of a special
experience.
But I mean it's.
It's a lot of different typesof people.
(21:55):
Sometimes it's just a smallbusiness owner, sometimes it's
an executive, somebody who justworks hard, and it's not really
nine to five these days, but youknow, nine to nine or whatever
it is, and they want to go andunplug and they want to go just
relax and not have to worryabout things.
No, things are taken care of.
I mean I I recently stayed at afour seasons property in London
(22:16):
and I mean it's a part of itwas for meetings, but just
seeing how they operate like itis on a different level.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Oh, that's a research .
Speaker 2 (22:23):
That's what you were doing, and I mean truly, and it
was very informative.
But the I mean just seeing howthe entire staff operated and
you can see, like, why peoplewill stay there, because they're
like I can just unplug, theywill take care of things, they
will take care of me, I can justenjoy my time.
Or I mean, even if you'retraveling for work, like you
(22:44):
just don't have to think aboutit and I I kind of started to
see how that plays into things,cause I'm definitely the person
who is not like I'm going to go,say, to four seasons.
I joke that I'm a Hyatt Regencyguy because I work on the road,
so I like, if it has a clublounge, that's great, cause I
just go have breakfast and workand get out of my room.
But but I understand and Ireally enjoy seeing how luxury
(23:07):
properties operate.
I think it's the politicalbackground and working on camp,
like previously working oncampaigns, I just like to see
people execute and just do itreally well.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Yeah, another political friend Also, you're in
DC, like to see it.
These people spend crazy moneyon stuff.
I mean these politicians areout of control.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
You're like what is what is going on?
I would say I see more moneyspent in New York.
Those hotels are some reallyexpensive hotels there but yeah.
I mean it's, it's a variety ofpeople and sometimes unexpected.
Sometimes it's a retiree whojust like saved a ton of money
and now they're like I'm goingto enjoy it.
And then other people who arejust small business owners.
(23:46):
Some people own big businesses,but yeah, they're just.
I think the experience is whatthey're going for, which I think
is an important thing toremember.
I think sometimes, when youdon't come from just being able
to throw money around like it'snothing, you start to feel like
you can never spend money onsomething nice.
It just feels off, I guess.
(24:07):
Money on something nice.
Uh, it just feels off, I guess.
Um, but just kind of remind.
Sometimes I like to remindpeople.
You know it's, it's okay towant a nice experience.
Uh, and if points is how youget there, great, if cash is how
you get there, as long as it'sin your budget, I'm cool with it
and I'm happy to see you gohave fun.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Well, and I'm, I'm kind of uh, you can get
institutionalized.
If you are not a person whoenjoys life, you can get used to
not having nice things right.
And I think For me, once I gotout of where I'm from and I
started to be around otherpeople, you go and you go into
(24:42):
their houses and you're like man, people live like this.
Like this is this isunbelievable.
Like I grew up in a one bedroomwith four people, you know, and
now I'm in this house and likehalf of it's empty but it's a
gigantic house.
I got a big yard.
You start like looking at otherstuff and say, man, I want
stuff.
Then, when you travel and yougo to a place like dubai and you
see the extravagance and youknow you're eating food with
(25:06):
gold on it and you're like, wow,I want to be this is I want
this.
All it can motivate you right,like you mean you didn't, you
didn't grow up with gold leafover your coffee no ramen
noodles with hot sauce on themright like, yeah, that's what
you got, uh, but that's what youget, uh, but but no.
But you know it can kind ofmotivate you to want nice things
(25:26):
and to maybe even even kick inthe pants a little bit and make
you want to work a little harderso you can, you know, provide
for your family.
Or you know say, look, I, youknow I grew up like this, but
you know I want my kids to havenicer stuff and you know,
understand what, how the otherside lives.
But what you're saying is isyou don't have to be rich.
You can be a regular guy,regular lady and still every
(25:48):
once in a while, splurge.
But use this strategy in orderto be able to do that.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah, and I think it's again, it's all comes down
to prioritization.
I think a lot of people theythe one that gets me is I see
people spend God knows how muchmoney going out to restaurants.
And they go to, they spend aton of money on concerts and I
mean like cool, those are yourthings you love to do.
But then they flip around andsay, oh, I can't spend money on
travel, oh, I can't do that.
And I'm like, well, no, youjust spend it somewhere else,
(26:17):
Like if you I mean I know peoplewho spend $4,000 a month on,
like, going out to eat To me I'mlike I just don't care enough
about going to, I just need tosurvive, and that's don't get me
wrong.
I love good food, but it's justlike that's not my priority and
so I'll prioritize being ableto like go on a trip somewhere.
And to them I'm always justsaying I'm like, why don't you
(26:40):
just spend half of that for liketwo months and like pretty much
no matter what, you can flybusiness class with just cash to
Europe and it's just likeforget it, don't even worry
about the points at that point.
But it's just, it is alwayspriorities and I think if you
want a really nice experienceand you have points for it,
that's great.
If you're just like I just wantto seat on the plane to get me
there so I can do X, y and Z,that's also great.
(27:03):
And it's just a matter offiguring out what you want, what
your goals are, and honestlyignoring the noise, cause
there's always people are goingto tell you that like, oh no,
the best way to do it is thisway and I'm like no, that's just
your.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
They need to know what's available to them, and we
talked a little bit about this,like where I'm from, where
you're from, it's you know,there's not a lot of
understanding of what'savailable to you.
If you're in a certaincommunity, right, you don't have
a network, you don't haveaccess to ideas or what's like
what jobs are out there or anyof that kind of stuff.
Well, it's the same in thisindustry.
(27:38):
Like, I don't know what creditcards are out there, right, I
don't know how I could takeadvantage of these strategies,
right.
And you know, there there's thepoints guy and you kind of have
a different, uh, a differentspin on things a little bit.
But what people can go to yourwebsite?
Obviously straight to thepointsco, but they need somebody
kind of looking out for them.
People are busy all day.
(27:59):
They don't have time to do thekind of in-depth research that
you do.
They don't do this full time,but there's so much information
on your website and in yournewsletter and access to these
things.
It consolidates everything intoone place, yeah, so talk a
little bit about the resourcesthat you do have.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yeah, so for people just getting started, I have a
beginner's guide.
It is I just consider it a.
It's the foundational pieces ofinformation.
Um, I played baseball for along time and so I look at like
pitching.
There's five main steps to thepitching motion and when you're
first starting out, all of themfeel very confusing.
And you count them out and it's, it's just very stilted and by
(28:39):
the time you've done it for youknow 10 years you're just like I
don't know.
You just throw the ball, likejust do that, you just do it.
It's fluid, and I think that'sthe same concept when you're
trying to learn how to doanything.
So I try to put this beginner'sguide together just to kind of
give you those foundationalpieces.
It'll feel weird at first andthen, once you've, after that
goes back to the original andyou're just reapplying the same
(29:00):
kind of methods to learning anew aspect.
So it's, it's, it's.
It can definitely be a lot, butit's.
You don't have to be insaneabout it, just depends how deep
into it you want to go.
So that's, that's the for thosewho are new, for those who
already have points and are justtrying to figure out how to use
them and use them better.
(29:21):
I have my award alertsnewsletter where I send out
award space and business infirst class on international
routes and break down thedifferent ways you can use your
points and the best ways and whyyou'd want to do one versus
another.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
So my older brother says I idiot, proof the process
If your brother says that, thenyeah, you must be doing
something, right?
Speaker 2 (29:41):
I wrote him instructions on how to book a
flight once when we were goingto see our younger brother in
Japan and uh, this I was like aprecursor to me writing this
newsletter.
I was like, oh, there'ssomething to this, just lay it
out.
Um, so yeah, and that's.
Those are the two main thingsand hopefully it helps people
kind of go from A to Z.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Yeah, well, my favorite thing is is I Delta
points.
They changed the way that theyou know I used to get tons of
points for flying.
Now it's like all my flightsare like economy flights to
Orlando and stuff.
So, you get nothing for him now,right and it's.
You know, you got to pay moremoney or something.
I don't know what in the worldtheir deal is, but they
definitely screwed me up.
So but I, I, you know I'll useLyft because Lyft will give you
(30:23):
points.
I, when I get pizza, I go toDonato's pizza because I've got
some kind of thing hooked upwith my credit card where it'll
it'll send me that in, andthere's several ways that I can
get points by doing other thingsthat tie into.
I think it was dining rewards.
Delta has a dining rewardsthing or something, but it ties
into my Delta sky miles.
So you know, I'm doing thatkind of stuff but I I try to
(30:47):
funnel everything into Delta skymiles.
Are there?
Is that like a strategy thatyou see people using or that you
recommend to people say like,hey, find your favorite points
program and then funnel kind ofeverything into that?
Speaker 2 (31:01):
To an extent, I would say don't have a favorite
points program, Be agnostic.
The loyalty programs are likethey play on emotion.
That's great, that's marketing,that's how they do it.
But I'm like I don't care whichprogram it is.
To me it's just like which isgoing to get me the goal.
Care which program it is, to meit's just like which is going
to get me the goal.
And so if I want to fly toEurope and I know that these
(31:22):
airlines are, or these airlineshave lots of flights, and I know
these are the points I can use,I'm concerned about these
points.
I'm not concerned about someother potential option that
maybe I like them more.
I'm like that's doesn't matterif I like them.
This is about the goal.
Um, I I'm going to suggest toyou that maybe you try branching
out from sky miles.
Uh, because in my I would say,educated opinion, uh, they're
(31:45):
one of the worst on the planetwhen it comes to redeeming
points.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
They've been messing me up.
Yeah, They've been ruining.
Over the years They've gottenworse.
I.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
I.
I get questions sometimes.
I'm like oh, do you do braindeals with airlines?
I'm like, well, not Delta.
At least I've said too manythings.
I say that as someone whosefather flew 2.8 million miles on
Delta for work travel, so I'mfamiliar.
This is not.
This is not me just talking.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Your dad might as well just got his pilot's
license.
At that point, just go aheadand fly your own plane.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Yeah for sure.
Yeah, I think part of it islearning about one.
Just, different programs offerdifferent benefits and then,
when you can earn points withcredit cards, you can transfer
to lots of different airlines.
And so you start to think aboutlike I can book the same flight
so like let's do a quickexample like Swiss Swiss flies
(32:37):
to Zurich from a bunch ofairports in the U?
S.
You could book with Unitedmiles.
I think most Americans wouldthink about United cause it's an
American carrier, but you couldalso use air Canada's aeroplane
program or you could useAvianca life miles.
And it's like it's all bookingthe same flight.
You're just using a differentprogram that also partners with
Swiss.
They're all star Alliance.
It's like it's.
It feels very confusing at thebeginning, but it all starts to
(32:59):
kind of make sense.
It's like a little puzzle.
But each program has their ownaward rates.
So you're just looking for likewhich one's going to charge me
fewer points so that I cantransfer points from my bank
fewer than I would have to orotherwise have to.
So it's again like it's.
It's a bit like puttingtogether a puzzle.
Yeah, it just takes a littlethought.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Well, I'm a big Chase guy.
My wife likes the AmericanExpress stuff and she's got that
.
What is it?
It's like the purple AmericanExpress Delta card and there's
like another one.
It's like the problem I havewith all these credit cards and
maybe you can demystify this forpeople but they'll have like
three or four points cards andI've got like the chase stuff
(33:41):
right.
One of them will get youcertain things, the other one
will get you other things andthen this one will get you this
thing.
So you got to have like two orthree of them to get all the
things that you actually wantand then remember to use them.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Yeah, I know, people put stickers on their cards that
says like grocery or dining orwhatever.
I mean, it's whatever it takes.
But yeah, to me I always tellpeople there's kind of three
main approaches to credit cardsif you want to travel.
And there's the keep it simplestupid.
It's just like you get one tothree cards.
They have bonus categories thatfit your spend patterns.
(34:15):
Then you never think aboutcredit cards again Works really
well for businesses with a highspend.
In the middle is more of kind ofa hub and supplement, where
it's like you build a truly ahub of like four to five credit
cards, again focused on bonuscategories, and then you pick up
a new card for a signup bonushere and there, based on
whatever your travel needs are.
And then, if you just like wantto go way too far, you can do
(34:39):
the kind of maximalist approachwhich is just focus on earning
signup bonuses repeatedly and soit's a.
It's it's, I mean, at itsbasics or most basic.
It's just the simplest for themost complex, but also the
fewest points to the most points.
So it just depends what kind ofbandwidth you have, how much
(35:00):
you want to invest into a hobby.
Uh, just time-wise.
Um, I don't know.
I always put it.
I always put it like I knowpeople who play golf and some
show up on the weekend, have afew beers and hit the ball and
then others go to the drivingrange Cause they want to be good
on the weekend when they go outwith their buddies and like one
of you is going to be a lotbetter, yeah, that's OK.
And like the people who don'tput in that time and effort,
(35:21):
they just have to know that,like they're not going to be the
best one out there, Set yourexpectations yeah.
Yeah, exactly, just kind of knowwhat you're getting into.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
And do you ever cancel cards or you just kind of
let them, like once that allthe benefits expire, do you
cancel them and then hope theysend you another offer or
something, or how's that work?
Speaker 2 (35:38):
So I always tell people I give every card a fair
shake, that I get every card.
I got to give it a fair shakefor like a year and if it's got
to earn its keep, it's pretty,it's I don't know, I don't know
it's harsh, but it's just.
If you're going to, if thecard's going to provide more
benefits that I'm going to haveto pay in the annual fee, I will
consider keeping it.
Keeping it Sometimes I stillwon't keep it because I don't
(36:01):
think it provides enough basedon the annual fee.
I'm unusual in that I travel alot more than most people, so
it's easier for me to leverage alot of benefits.
But otherwise I think it's likeI always say you get kind of
your keepers, the ones thatyou're going to stick with in
the wallet and if some, if a newcard comes out or maybe a
card's earning structure changesa bit and it fits you better,
well then you just replace it.
(36:21):
It's a, it's cutthroat.
I don't like, I don't know whatto tell you.
It's like I don't have anyemotional attachment to some
bank's credit card.
No, no, no, no.
It's like.
That's just what it is.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
So I mean they're banks.
They don't care about us ocean.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
So fine, hey, that's fine.
I'm just utilizing the programsthey've set up and, yeah,
there's, there's just, it's justa matter of kind of putting
together the wallet that fitsyour life.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
I need BlackRock to come up with a card, since they
own everything.
They'd have a great rewardsprogram.
It'd be like every, every S&P500 company would participate.
So so, ok, top three cardsright now, like at this moment,
if somebody was like man, I, Iwant to take advantage of this.
What do you think the top, if Icould say sign up for three
(37:13):
cards.
They're going to balance outwith each other and they got
great programs right now.
Which ones do you think and Iknow I'm putting you on the spot
, but which ones would you saywould be would be good ones to
have in your wallet?
Speaker 2 (37:23):
As my friends will tell you, I have the urge to ask
lots of follow-up questions toget an insight into where
they're spending money.
But broadly speaking, I thinkfor those who want to travel and
are going to be out quite a bit, I think the Capital One
Venture X is an easy one forpeople because it just earns 2x
points on any of your day-to-dayspending.
It's just easy.
Basically, the goal to me isnever earn 1x on a purchase, and
(37:47):
that just makes it easy.
You're not.
Basically, the goal to me isnever earned one X on a purchase
, and that just makes it easy.
And so you also have loungeaccess with that um for a lot of
airports, so that helps.
So if you're traveling a lot,um, that can be really useful
and I think you know it's.
It's the best bang for yourbuck If you want perks like that
as well as like trip delayinsurance in case your flight
gets delayed and it'll cover ahotel for you, stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
So I think, that's a oh.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
There's a lot of fun benefits that most people don't
have ever even scratched.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
So don't buy the travel insurance on the website
Wait but use a card that has thetravel insurance.
Yeah, I mean truly.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
And I, a lot of people are like, oh, I'll never
use it.
And then I tell them I'm like,well, I'd used it four times in
four months because you justnever know.
Wow, so it's.
But yeah, I think that's aneasy one for people.
I think those who are going tokind of dig in a bit more, I
always tell people to start withlike Chase Ultimate Rewards
cards, so like the ChaseSapphire Preferred or the Chase
(38:38):
Sapphire Reserve, which you canthen pair with like a Chase
Freedom Flex or Chase FreedomUnlimited.
If you have a business, you canpair it with any of the three
ink cards the ink preferred, inkcash and ink unlimited, and
they all can pull their pointstogether.
So business owners have a hugeadvantage of this.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
I've got the reserves , so I've got that one, and it's
yeah it's.
It definitely racks up some,some points there.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Yeah, and I and I always tell people if you want
to kind of get dig deep intopoints, chase is really where
you want to start, because theydo have some rules about whether
or not they'll approve you andthey're just more strict.
So, um, yeah, that that gets inthe weeds I cover in the
beginner's guide if anybodywants to understand why.
But it's, um, but that's can bea good one for people who are
kind of trying to push a littlebit more.
(39:22):
But I think you have a lot ofoptions honestly.
Um, there's's Amex cards thatare membership rewards points,
same concept as Chase.
Ultimate Awards, same conceptas Capital One's miles.
They just transfer to a bunchof partners.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Oh, that's, the key is being able to move this stuff
around.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
And that's the fun part.
I mean you can use the pointswithin their kind of internal
travel portals, but the value isgenerally a lot higher when
you're transferring to airlines.
Um, it's not the sexy part Ithink people love when they earn
a lot of points, like that'sexciting.
They see their balance go upand I'm like that's just, that's
the first step.
Yeah, like rubber meets theroad on the trip.
(40:02):
Like you don't just earn thesejust to have them.
Um, yeah, there's, it's's not,it's not an investment.
This is not like your stockportfolio.
These will not these.
The value is not going up.
Airlines will devalue theprograms.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
earn them, use them like this is when you got a nice
filter program, a nice filteron your, on your on the credit
card part, like the best creditcards recommending here and
there's a lot of cards.
But if I want hotels I canfilter by hotels, airlines, rent
, rent.
There's that built card andI've seen that's really cool and
I get like full disclosure.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
I serve on like an advisory board for them, but
they are a fascinating programbecause they are rewarding
people who rent and there hasn'tbeen a lot for renters.
No, it's been the opposite ofthat.
Yeah, so, as someone who hasrented his entire life, it was
really exciting when theylaunched this, but it's so.
It's a loyalty program forrenters.
But they also offer a creditcard.
(40:56):
You can join with or withoutthe card, um, and they're.
They're doing some reallycreative things and interesting
things in the space.
Um, but just be honestly like,if you live in a big city and
you spend too much money on rentthe way I do in DC, uh, it's uh
move back to Lexington You'llyou'll have to rent probably
yeah.
Oh I, I, I love looking at costof living comparisons.
(41:18):
Just to make myself hurt.
I'm like I'm sorry, did you saythat rent 70% cheaper?
Speaker 1 (41:24):
No, I do that too, but I look at the cost of living
calculator for differentcountries.
So, oh yeah, you can do thattoo.
You for buenos aires, right,like I'm looking at that and
it's and I've got a little hacktoo the blue rate right, you
send money via western uniondown there and you get twice
what the bank will give youright, or you go on the street
and get even more, but then youget counterfeit money but yeah
(41:46):
and it and it's so cheap it'slike crazy.
I'm like you know, the food onthe street is like looks
delicious and it's like 50 centsand it's like man, I could just
, I could just work remote andjust do whatever.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Oh, I thought about that.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Live like a king.
Oh, you, 100%, should do it.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Look at what you're doing here.
So we're going to stick to thisfor now, but I'm telling you, I
got to say the first.
I just remember being inRomania with my buddy, tim, and
we're like walking aroundBucharest and I was like this is
a cool neighborhood.
I wonder how much it like coststo live here.
And I'm like looking at luxuryapartment and I'm like
absolutely not.
I can't look at this anymore.
This is too depressing.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
We did that in Budapest.
We did that same thing Anywherein Eastern Europe.
It's ridiculous.
And Montenegro, like beautiful,right, yeah, and you're looking
at it and you're like this isgreat.
Or South America Name a countryin South Iroquois, right Monty
video.
And it's like on, you're on thewater, you're in a major city
(42:43):
in a country that's got itsstuff together.
It's just stupid cheap.
It's just like wild.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Oh my goodness, we're spoiled.
In america you can do, you cando the same thing in thailand
and you see these places andyou're like.
You're like, oh, luxuryapartment, eight hundred dollars
a month, less.
It's like okay never mind.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
My wife and I walked it.
We were in phuket.
We walked out of our resort.
We go onto this little streetand all there is is restaurants
and massage parlors, right, andwe go into the first massage
parlor, we look at the pricesand we're like we got to be
adding this up, wrong, right?
Well, we get there and at theend, four bucks for both of us
to get an hour massage.
I'm like Melissa, you know howcheap it would be for us to live
(43:20):
here, like we could live likekings, but she owns a spa.
Same thing your wife, you know,she, she has a physical place.
She has to be every day.
So that's the downside.
So so tell me, spencer, like,what would be the best way for
people to get started with you,with your program, to get
involved in, in, you know,starting this kind of side
(43:42):
hustle, you know working creditcards for points and everything.
Would it be your newsletter?
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Yeah, I would say, if you're new to kind of credit
card points, um, and even if youthink you know a lot, it's not
a bad idea to get a refresher.
I think the beginner's guide onthe site is a great place to
start.
If you have points and you'relooking to travel
internationally, uh and businessor first-class, the newsletter
is the way to go.
Um, I'm also very active onInstagram.
My handle's at straight to thepoints, and I do a lot of.
(44:10):
I do put up a lot of content,answer a lot of questions on
there, so that's a great way tokind of stay current.
I love it, man.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
This has been great.
Well, it's good to speak to aKentucky guy.
We get people from all over theworld and it's like, man, I
Lexington guy, you're an hourhour and 15 minutes away from
where I'm at, so actually I'malready across the river.
It's probably an hour.
So yeah, man, this has beenawesome and congratulations on
you know, being able to start abusiness doing something you
love.
I mean, this is, it's,outstanding.
(44:38):
Is there anything we didn'ttalk about that you want to tell
people?
Speaker 2 (44:42):
I think we covered it .
I think the only thing I wouldsay is just, it can feel like a
lot at the beginning becauseit's a whole new thing.
Just take it slow.
Everybody is going.
Everybody will have felt whatyou feel as you try to like, get
a, get a handle on all these,like all this new information,
and don't be shy about askingquestions.
We've all asked them.
Oh yeah, I'll be asking a lotof questions.
(45:03):
Cool man?
Speaker 1 (45:11):
Well, I'm definitely.
I I'm going to sign up for thenewsletter.
I'm going to take a look atyour website a little more in
depth and yeah, you're a wealthof knowledge and I appreciate
you being on here with us.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
Yeah, thanks so much for having me.
Adam, appreciate it.
All right, have a good one.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Thanks for joining us on this week's episode of Side
Hustle City.
Well, you've heard from ourguests, now let's hear from you.
Join our community on Facebook,side hustle city.
It's a group where people shareideas, share their
inspirational stories andmotivate each other to be
successful and turn their sidehustle into their main hustle.
We'll see you there and we'llsee you next week on the show.
(45:38):
Thank you.
Welcome to Side Hustle City and thanks for
joining us.
Our goal is to help you connectto real people who found
success turning their sidehustle into a main hustle, and
we hope you can too.
I'm Adam Kaler.
I'm joined by Kyle Stevie, myco-host.
Let's get started, all right.
(00:24):
Welcome back, everybody, to theSide Hustle City podcast.
Today we've got our specialguest, spencer Howard.
How are you doing, spencer?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Doing well.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Adam, thanks for having me Well before the show
we realized you're a Kentuckyguy, so you get points, and
we're talking about credit cardpoints.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
You're ahead of the game.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I don't like the points.
That's right.
That's right.
So you've got perspective beingfrom Kentucky and now here you
are, working in luxury travel.
So how did how did you getinvolved in in the points game
in the in the travel credit cardpoints game?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yeah, for sure I some of it's just dumb luck, like
many things I feel like in mylife, but it's uh, I was working
in politics for about a decade.
My last political job, we uh,we were actually encouraged to
take our days off, which isunusual in politics.
Um, and at that point I waslike I just got to find flights
to go somewhere Let me find thecheapest thing and stumbled upon
(01:20):
a website talking about airlinemiles and I was like, well, I
don't travel a lot.
But then they mentionedsomething about credit cards.
I was like, well, I have acredit card and I mean, this was
like the beginning of goingdown the rabbit hole and I think
I ended up spending like fourhours a night for like six
months like reading credit cardrules, terms and conditions,
airline rules for booking withpoints and not the normal path
(01:44):
and not necessarily the path Iwould recommend for everybody.
But I got obsessed.
So that's how we started.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, but you were working in before that, before
you really got into this.
Is this like a full time thingfor you now?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
This is full time now .
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Yeah, wow, so you've created your own job,
essentially.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah, I mean I freelanced writing for some
large websites that talk aboutcredit card points and, um,
airline miles, hotel points.
Uh did that for several years,um, and then, at the beginning
of 2021, uh decided to take whatwas my hobby straight to the
points, which is just a freenewsletter, and make it my
full-time job.
Um, yeah, I mean nothing likestarting a travel business when
(02:25):
people aren't traveling becauseof a global pandemic.
So it was, uh, it was, it was abit of a, it was a bit of a
move, but it's uh, it's workingout.
I think people people kind ofunderstood we were going to be
traveling soon and, um, yeah,just been going since then.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Well, things picked up.
I mean, I think right nowpeople are a little hesitant to
spend money and I could tellbecause you know I do my little
Turo business I bought a car andI put it on Turo, mainly to
just let people on the podcastknow if it was worth the money
or not.
And a couple of years ago itwas great, you know, there was
pandemic money going around andpeople were spending it and they
were like, yeah, let me go buy,you know, rent a nice car.
(03:02):
I'm thinking about buying oneof these, let me rent it out on
Turo and I usually I'll drop itoff to the airport in Cincinnati
that's actually in Kentucky anddrop it off to people, and it's
a great business.
I mean, I'm renting this thing$200 a day, you know.
And you know, maybe it'sbecause it's a winter right now.
I don't know what.
(03:26):
What are you?
Are you feeling that too rightnow, or what do you think?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I think towards the end of a year I typically see
people slow down, um, mostly, Ithink, because they're buying
like Christmas presents andwhatnot.
Um, and then January peoplestart going oh, I should plan
travel for this year, and I seelike a quick, like burst, and
then it starts to kind ofbalance out and usually I end up
hearing from people in likelate May where they're like I
(03:53):
want to go somewhere this summerand I'm like you are very late
to the party, but it's, I get it.
Not everybody's thinking abouttravel all the time, like I am.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah, well, I mean, this is your full-time thing,
which is amazing that, I meanyou're, you're kind of doing
what everybody wants to do, likeI went and spoke to some kids
at my high school yesterday andI go, you know, I'm telling them
, hey, don't, don't trade yourtime for money, right, don't be
an indentured servant is what Itold him.
Just to shock value, right, and, uh and and and own assets and
(04:22):
do all this stuff right.
And they all want to beinfluencers.
I think every kid nowadayswants to be a YouTube influencer
, a TikTok influencer or one ofthese things.
You're kind of living the dream, because I think when you break
that down, it's not necessarilyabout being an influencer or
whatever.
It's about writing your ownticket, essentially being your
(04:46):
own boss, doing your own thingin an industry that you love.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I am still, I meanstill obsessed, the same same as
I was in 2015 when I discoveredthis was a possibility Um, and
I mean I love, I love it.
It's still hard work I probablyworked too many hours, uh, just
, but I do love it.
So it's hard to stop sometimes,so, um, but yeah, and I think
there's and there's a lot of newopportunities these days with
(05:14):
the way the internet has evolved, for for good or bad.
I know there's, you know, lotsof downsides, but there's a lot
of upsides, and the ability tokind of do what you want is, I
think, a lot easier than it usedto be.
I think the permissionstructure is a bit different.
It's not, as I know, you're notrequired to wait in line as
much.
You can kind of get intosomething, do the research put
(05:35):
in the work, put it out therefor the world and kind of see if
it connects, and I think that'sgreat and that's kind of what I
did.
I'm not I always say I'm kindof an antiviral creator.
Um, I don't create things thatare exciting.
I'm more of an educationalperson.
I like to kind of dig in and,you know, get into the weeds on
things and um make sure peoplekind of know how they can go
(05:58):
travel, um, rather than justkind of shock them with
something amazing that I did.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Yeah, yeah, well, I mean I'm, you know, my wife.
She's big time into travel.
She loves it, especially Disneystuff.
She would we.
She wants me to move to GoldenOak so that she can.
I don't know if you know.
You probably know Golden Oakcause you're in there.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Oh, you know, I'm not a Disney person.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Well, yeah, if you got, if you got four and a half
million dollars for a starterhome, you can move to gold.
But it's just, yeah, four and ahalf million, yeah, this is
what she wants.
She's like this is what youneed to get for me.
And I'm like, oh, yeah, okay,what do they start at?
And she's showing me the 10million dollar ones.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Right, so, but but essentially, do it, do it right
do it, right, right, but.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
But you're on disney campus, right, you spend some
ungodly amount of money for youknow association dues and all
that stuff.
But you get like a pass todisney, you get all this stuff
and that's kind of life shewants to live.
So she's just like enthralledwith disney, with universal,
with you know amusement parks ingeneral.
She wants you just have fun allthe time.
You know, and I think it's alot of people have a dream when
(06:56):
they're going on a vacation andyou know once that dream is over
.
A week or a week and a halflater, or however long you're on
your trip.
Now you're hit with the bill.
Right, the bill comes due, or,hopefully, you've been saving.
But people need.
They're always looking for away to get an edge right when
they're traveling.
How do I get an edge?
How do I save a little bit ofmoney?
You know you got kids and stuff.
(07:18):
It just gets that much moreexpensive.
So who do you normally dealwith?
Are you you dealing with peoplethat are this expensive?
So who do you normally dealwith?
Are you you dealing with peoplethat are this is their?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
strategy is like I just need to save an extra
couple hundred bucks.
It's a.
It varies, Um, I think a lot ofmy well, a lot of my audience
is into flying business andfirst-class internationally and
those ticket prices are.
I mean, my favorite example isif you want to fly like round
trip to Japan, it could be liketwenty, two thousand dollars.
If you want to fly first class,business can be, you know,
(07:49):
fifteen, ten thousand, whatever.
I mean it's yeah, it's, it'spricey.
Even I mean going to Europe, itcan be anywhere from like on a
good day Eighteen is a reallygood day is eighteen hundred
dollars for a round trip ticket,and on a more normal day we can
be up in the fours and thefives.
So, and then you look at likepeak periods and it gets even
higher.
So for me it's just a matter oflike how can I kind of help
(08:11):
people get the experience thatthey wouldn't normally have,
give them a taste of somethingdifferent, like I think so many
people work so hard, and thenit's just, they think about
travel and it's like, oh, I gotto like fly to get there, and
it's just like a drag becausethey're going to sit in economy.
Nothing wrong with sitting ineconomy.
If that's like how you want touse your points, go forth.
I'm 6'3", I like space, I don'tfit in small spaces, and so
(08:35):
I've just been trying to helppeople kind of enhance their
travel just a bit and make it alittle bit nicer no-transcript
(09:13):
there for a minute.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Next thing, you know, he gets upgraded.
I gotta watch him the rest ofthe time on this flight through
the little curtain, drinkingcocktails, leaning back.
But he's like you.
He's like probably six, two,six, three, um, but he's a
bigger guy, so you know.
I didn't get too mad at him.
But here I am on a 16 hourwhatever in world flight.
(09:35):
I was on, tied up in this thing.
But when you're flying likethat, being in first class is a
game changer yeah, it's uh's, aand this is like a, this is a
very.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
It's a distinction that nobody thinks about.
But business and first classare different and you're not
internationally.
Um, business class to be islike that's.
I think that should be the goalfor most people get a lie, flat
seat and just some space.
Uh, first class is like you.
Just, you basically want to flyprivate, but that's just a
bridge too far, yeah, I mean.
But it does truly change.
Like I, I always look at it aslike I don't want to be
(10:09):
miserable thinking about gettingsomewhere and I don't want to
be miserable getting to theairport and getting on the plane
, just want the whole journey tobe kind of enjoyable, whether
that means you just want to goto sleep as soon as you get on
the plane, whether it means youwant some nicer food, whether
that means you want a glass ofchampagne, whatever.
That is like just a betterexperience.
So like I don't know, it makesit feels like a true vacation,
(10:30):
like you're, you're starting offnice, you're feeling good,
rather than like now I have torecover for six days because I
was sitting in the back on a 15hour flight.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Oh my God, and travel can totally be like that, right
, and then you get there and youknow you're finally drag your
bags through the lobby, you getyour ticket, you go up an
elevator, you walk a littlefurther just to get to your room
and you finally get to dropyour stuff off.
You're ready to go to sleep.
I mean it's, it's not a, it'snot like yeah, why should your
travel be that painful andstressful when you're trying to
(11:01):
relax?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Yeah, and with a credit card points, there's a
lot of opportunities to be ableto book these business and first
class flights, especiallybusiness class, even for
families.
I mean, I've I, one of mynewsletter readers booked a
family of eight business classto Europe?
Um, they're, they're not likework travelers are not on the
road all the time, it's justthrough strategic earning of
credit card points.
Um, so that's the kind of thoseare the big wins that I like to
(11:25):
see, um, but you know, andagain, like I do like to
emphasize, that just taking thetrip is, I mean, can be special
enough.
I've flown an economy.
It's fine.
Like if you, if that's the, ifthat's the opportunity you have,
like go for it.
Like, if points are going toget you an economy seat, or
maybe a bunch of economy seatsand or a bunch of economy seats
and or a bunch of economy trips,like go for it.
It's just to me, it's justfiguring out how you or what you
(11:47):
care about with travel andputting your points to use to
get that.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah, and now tell people the strategy, Like I
think a lot of people Iunderstand it because I've kind
of looked into it.
You know it looks like you'vebeen featured on the points guy.
He's a very popular person tofollow.
I mean you've been on Forbes,Travel and Leisure, Business
Insider, Washington Post.
I mean the list goes on and onhere.
But explain to people theindustry like this, this just
(12:12):
became a thing maybe I don'tknow, 10 years ago or something
like that.
People really started to makethis a thing, but it's become a
big deal and credit cardcompanies are competing with
each other, on, on, you knowdifferent kinds of programs that
they do, because it's justcutthroat.
It's cutthroat industry, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, I mean it's.
I love competition, so that'sI'm happy for them to compete
for our business and find waysto reward us for using their
products, and that's yeah.
So for me it's basicallyseveral banks have transferable
points programs where you cantransfer those points into, uh,
other airlines and hotels, andthey're all trying to kind of
(12:52):
get the best partners and havethe best airline partnerships
and they run promos fortransfers.
I mean they're they've got likedifferent bonus categories for
credit cards.
Each one, each bank is likereally pushing to kind of
incentivize you to come bankwith them and ideally they want
you to do all your banking withthem.
But it's, yeah, I mean, theindustry's wild.
I think it's it's changed sinceI've been in it since 2016,.
(13:16):
But it's yeah, there's more andmore people from different
backgrounds kind of sharingtheir experiences, traveling and
showing how they do things, andit's I don don't know, it's a
lot of fun to watch, um, andit's just kind of fun to see
even more people kind of takingadvantage of these opportunities
that I think often gooverlooked or not even
overlooked.
They just don't even know theyexist.
A lot of it's just you gottalike, oh, put it in front of
(13:37):
somebody to go.
Oh hey, you can do this.
And the first time you're likewait, what?
That's a thing I think mostpeople are like I don't travel,
I'm not a road warrior, I'm notgoing to earn any points and I'm
like that's the 90s, this isthe 2020s, like you earn points
with credit cards, like that'swhere it happens and that's
where the opportunity is.
Don't get me wrong Roadwarriors can still earn plenty
(13:58):
of hotel points and airlinemiles, but it's not exclusive to
them anymore.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Right?
Well, there's a guy also onYouTube, Graham Stephan, and you
might know him.
He's a finance influencer, he'sa realtor in California and he
saves every dime.
He drinks his coffee black, hemakes it at home.
He never goes to Starbucks.
He's a big points guy, butthat's not his main thing.
He's just mostly talking aboutreal estate and he's bringing
(14:24):
people on like Mr Wonderful andhe's at that level now.
But the guy's still drinkinghis coffee black at his house
and maybe throws a little milkin it every once in a while.
But he's a big saver and, hey,I'll invest my money instead of
wasting it and giving it toStarbucks.
I'll put it into something else.
Well People like him, peoplelike me.
(14:45):
I'm also a cheapskate.
I wouldn't say a cheapskate.
I'm very, very frugal and Idon't like to buy things unless
they make me money.
Right?
So if I can, if I can buythings and earn benefits somehow
from buying those things, thatI have to buy, no matter what.
I have multiple businesses.
You know some people also doblue collar guys.
You know, they've got to buytools, They've got to.
(15:08):
I've got to buy computersoftware.
I've got to buy a lot of things.
Right, I got to buy thoseanyway.
Why not figure out a way tostack programs or stack points
to benefit from that Right?
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Absolutely.
It's.
Uh, I think most people go intoit thinking, oh, I shouldn't
have credit cards.
Credit cards mean debt and Iget that.
And if you struggle with kindof controlling the spending and
not spending because you have acredit limit, don't, don't get
into the game.
It's a game.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
It's a hobby, it's not like this is not.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
This is a nice to have, not a need to have.
I don't want anybody going intodebt because they were chasing
points.
That's silly, it's just notworth it.
But if you treat your creditcard like a debit card and this
was a big mindset shift for mewhen I first got into it because
I thought that way I was like Idon't need the extra credit
just to spend for no reason.
But once I realized I couldjust treat the credit card like
(16:02):
a debit card, that was a bigkicker for me, where it's like
oh, just pay it off every month,Just like I immediately am
paying off the debit card.
So that, to me, is where thebenefit is.
Like you still want to only bespending on what you need.
You just want to get somethingout of it instead of nothing.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Exactly, you're spending this money anyway, yeah
.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yeah, debit card, cash, whatever, I'm like, ok,
you don't get anything.
And then you tell me that if Igo to this restaurant and I get
three or four X points and I canuse those points later for a
trip to Europe Great, let's dothat.
Um, if, if I've got businessexpenses for an event or
whatever I mean I have friendswho run digital ads for a living
and they, they earn so manypoints.
(16:44):
Oh, I need to start doing that.
Yeah, it's, uh, it's, uh, it'sI would call it printing points.
Um, it is insane becausethere's two credit cards that
offer, or there's what.
Two, one or two credit cardsare in like three, four X on all
your digital ad spend andyou're just like, oh, okay,
that's an easy way to do.
I mean, some of these guys arespending a month they pay.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
You send them a bill, they pay it off at the end of
the month and boom yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yeah, so I mean I own an ad agency so I get it.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
I mean, I've got somebody in California that does
most of my ad spend for me.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
But I can almost guarantee you he's doing this
strategy.
I was going to say he's earningall the points.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Oh, he's earning all the points I need to bring that
in-house.
Here's what you Sorry, mike,don't tell him.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
I sent you.
He's going to be so upset withme.
Oh yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
but that's the thing Like and you don't even know.
And a lot of your clients arepeople like that or they're, you
know, wealthier individuals,their business people and
they're, you know, they've got acompany card or something Right
.
But the average individual, theaverage person, can still kind
of do this, and I would considerthis a side hustle because
you're getting free stuff.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah, yeah it's.
I always tell people it's notfree, it's just heavily reduced.
Yeah, heavily reduced.
Well, you got to buy something.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yeah, yeah, and maybe a free hotel night, or maybe
you get a hotel or you get a,you get a discount on a flight
or you get whatever, but it'smoney you would have been
spending.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Yeah, and to me, I think there's a lot of different
approaches.
I think and it depends whereyou are in your, I'll say,
financial life when I first gotinto points, I was working in
politics.
When they didn't, they didn'treally pay you a lot, and so for
(18:29):
me it was like I got to, I wantto cover costs so that I can
actually go on the trip and,coming, you know, as you make a
little bit more money, it's like, ok, I want to cover flight
costs or hotel costs so that Ican go to a really nice meal at
this really great restaurant, uh, or do whatever experience.
Some people are into adventuresports and they want to pay for
whatever something.
I mean some people want to go,uh like, drive doom buggies in
the desert in the middle east,like it's going to cost some
money, okay.
But if you've used points tocover your flights or possibly
your hotels, or at least part ofyour hotels, like now all of a
sudden those become moreaffordable because you haven't
(18:54):
used the money you would have onthe flights.
So I think it's, I think it'sgreat.
I think, like I say, it'senhancing your travel.
It doesn't.
It can be simply just to savemoney, but it can also be to
just get you more experiencesthat you want.
To save money, but it can alsobe to just get you more
experiences that you want.
Um, it's really.
I mean, I have I have readerswho use points for flights only
(19:16):
and then they go pay for luxuryhotels because they didn't pay
for the flights.
I'm like that's great.
I have other P.
I have other people that arejust like I'm going to use
points for both flights andhotels, and then I'm going to
spend money on some Michelinstar meal just to like try it,
and I'm like, hey, what?
I mean, if you're a foodie, gofor it.
There's like, why not?
And that's how I look at it.
There's just, it's kind of a.
It's almost like a kind ofcreate your own adventure or
(19:37):
choose your own adventure game,um, and it's just a matter of
prioritizing for yourself what,what you want to get out of it.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
So my wife, she, she's okay with not spending
crazy money on hotels, right,but me, doesn't need that four
million dollar house.
Yeah, I know it's like, yeah,and it's mostly because it's by
disney, like and uh, yeah, we'llhave to figure that one out.
I don't know that's gonnahappen.
But she, she, she says, don'tsay it won't happen, because the
universe is not gonna be happywith you.
So that's her thing shemanifests, right.
(20:06):
So, but?
But when I the last time I wentsomewhere without her, I ended
up at a hotel next to a truckstop, in every room, and I was
in a non-smoking room and itstill smelled like smoking,
right.
So when I'm on my own, I'm likewhat's?
I look on the map and I'm likethe cheapest one.
I don't care where I stay.
I grew up in the hood Like I'll,I'll, I'll stay in the $20
(20:28):
hotel.
I don't care.
Right, and that is not herstyle, right?
She is not into that at all.
So she called me up.
She's like where'd you end upstaying?
And I'm I tell her about it.
I was like, ah, messed up.
She's like see what happenswhen you don't travel with me.
But you know, doing somethinglike what you're talking.
Talking about, I would be assomebody who's this cheap if I
(20:49):
could find a way to stay in anice hotel, because I'm always
like who the hell's spendingthis money?
Like who's out here spending?
I look at these prices and I'mlike 700 a night.
For who the hell spends 700 anight?
It's these people.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
You should try it.
I think you should try it onceand then and have some
conversations with them and seewhat they're up to.
Great networking opportunityfor you that is the thing.
Yes, it's a business expense.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
That's true, it is a business expense, so yeah, but
who are the?
Who are the folks that want tospend a thousand?
Like who's the guy at the BurjKhalifa?
Or the?
What is it the one?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
who's that guy?
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Burj Al Arab.
Who's that guy?
Who's Rob?
Like I was in Dubai, I was likewho's spending $5,000 a night
to be in these hotels?
Do you?
I mean, do you know thesepeople?
Do you interact with?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
these folks Maybe not $5,000 a night usually, but I
mean I have client.
I do hotel bookings as well,like luxury hotel bookings for
clients as a travel advisorCause I have access to some
programs that add additionalperks.
Still, looking for the value iswhat I like to say.
Yeah, just to get you a littlebit more, more of a special
experience.
But I mean it's.
It's a lot of different typesof people.
(21:55):
Sometimes it's just a smallbusiness owner, sometimes it's
an executive, somebody who justworks hard, and it's not really
nine to five these days, but youknow, nine to nine or whatever
it is, and they want to go andunplug and they want to go just
relax and not have to worryabout things.
No, things are taken care of.
I mean I I recently stayed at afour seasons property in London
(22:16):
and I mean it's a part of itwas for meetings, but just
seeing how they operate like itis on a different level.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Oh, that's a research .
Speaker 2 (22:23):
That's what you were doing, and I mean truly, and it
was very informative.
But the I mean just seeing howthe entire staff operated and
you can see, like, why peoplewill stay there, because they're
like I can just unplug, theywill take care of things, they
will take care of me, I can justenjoy my time.
Or I mean, even if you'retraveling for work, like you
(22:44):
just don't have to think aboutit and I I kind of started to
see how that plays into things,cause I'm definitely the person
who is not like I'm going to go,say, to four seasons.
I joke that I'm a Hyatt Regencyguy because I work on the road,
so I like, if it has a clublounge, that's great, cause I
just go have breakfast and workand get out of my room.
But but I understand and Ireally enjoy seeing how luxury
(23:07):
properties operate.
I think it's the politicalbackground and working on camp,
like previously working oncampaigns, I just like to see
people execute and just do itreally well.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Yeah, another political friend Also, you're in
DC, like to see it.
These people spend crazy moneyon stuff.
I mean these politicians areout of control.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
You're like what is what is going on?
I would say I see more moneyspent in New York.
Those hotels are some reallyexpensive hotels there but yeah.
I mean it's, it's a variety ofpeople and sometimes unexpected.
Sometimes it's a retiree whojust like saved a ton of money
and now they're like I'm goingto enjoy it.
And then other people who arejust small business owners.
(23:46):
Some people own big businesses,but yeah, they're just.
I think the experience is whatthey're going for, which I think
is an important thing toremember.
I think sometimes, when youdon't come from just being able
to throw money around like it'snothing, you start to feel like
you can never spend money onsomething nice.
It just feels off, I guess.
(24:07):
Money on something nice.
Uh, it just feels off, I guess.
Um, but just kind of remind.
Sometimes I like to remindpeople.
You know it's, it's okay towant a nice experience.
Uh, and if points is how youget there, great, if cash is how
you get there, as long as it'sin your budget, I'm cool with it
and I'm happy to see you gohave fun.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Well, and I'm, I'm kind of uh, you can get
institutionalized.
If you are not a person whoenjoys life, you can get used to
not having nice things right.
And I think For me, once I gotout of where I'm from and I
started to be around otherpeople, you go and you go into
(24:42):
their houses and you're like man, people live like this.
Like this is this isunbelievable.
Like I grew up in a one bedroomwith four people, you know, and
now I'm in this house and likehalf of it's empty but it's a
gigantic house.
I got a big yard.
You start like looking at otherstuff and say, man, I want
stuff.
Then, when you travel and yougo to a place like dubai and you
see the extravagance and youknow you're eating food with
(25:06):
gold on it and you're like, wow,I want to be this is I want
this.
All it can motivate you right,like you mean you didn't, you
didn't grow up with gold leafover your coffee no ramen
noodles with hot sauce on themright like, yeah, that's what
you got, uh, but that's what youget, uh, but but no.
But you know it can kind ofmotivate you to want nice things
(25:26):
and to maybe even even kick inthe pants a little bit and make
you want to work a little harderso you can, you know, provide
for your family.
Or you know say, look, I, youknow I grew up like this, but
you know I want my kids to havenicer stuff and you know,
understand what, how the otherside lives.
But what you're saying is isyou don't have to be rich.
You can be a regular guy,regular lady and still every
(25:48):
once in a while, splurge.
But use this strategy in orderto be able to do that.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah, and I think it's again, it's all comes down
to prioritization.
I think a lot of people theythe one that gets me is I see
people spend God knows how muchmoney going out to restaurants.
And they go to, they spend aton of money on concerts and I
mean like cool, those are yourthings you love to do.
But then they flip around andsay, oh, I can't spend money on
travel, oh, I can't do that.
And I'm like, well, no, youjust spend it somewhere else,
(26:17):
Like if you I mean I know peoplewho spend $4,000 a month on,
like, going out to eat To me I'mlike I just don't care enough
about going to, I just need tosurvive, and that's don't get me
wrong.
I love good food, but it's justlike that's not my priority and
so I'll prioritize being ableto like go on a trip somewhere.
And to them I'm always justsaying I'm like, why don't you
(26:40):
just spend half of that for liketwo months and like pretty much
no matter what, you can flybusiness class with just cash to
Europe and it's just likeforget it, don't even worry
about the points at that point.
But it's just, it is alwayspriorities and I think if you
want a really nice experienceand you have points for it,
that's great.
If you're just like I just wantto seat on the plane to get me
there so I can do X, y and Z,that's also great.
(27:03):
And it's just a matter offiguring out what you want, what
your goals are, and honestlyignoring the noise, cause
there's always people are goingto tell you that like, oh no,
the best way to do it is thisway and I'm like no, that's just
your.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
They need to know what's available to them, and we
talked a little bit about this,like where I'm from, where
you're from, it's you know,there's not a lot of
understanding of what'savailable to you.
If you're in a certaincommunity, right, you don't have
a network, you don't haveaccess to ideas or what's like
what jobs are out there or anyof that kind of stuff.
Well, it's the same in thisindustry.
(27:38):
Like, I don't know what creditcards are out there, right, I
don't know how I could takeadvantage of these strategies,
right.
And you know, there there's thepoints guy and you kind of have
a different, uh, a differentspin on things a little bit.
But what people can go to yourwebsite?
Obviously straight to thepointsco, but they need somebody
kind of looking out for them.
People are busy all day.
(27:59):
They don't have time to do thekind of in-depth research that
you do.
They don't do this full time,but there's so much information
on your website and in yournewsletter and access to these
things.
It consolidates everything intoone place, yeah, so talk a
little bit about the resourcesthat you do have.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yeah, so for people just getting started, I have a
beginner's guide.
It is I just consider it a.
It's the foundational pieces ofinformation.
Um, I played baseball for along time and so I look at like
pitching.
There's five main steps to thepitching motion and when you're
first starting out, all of themfeel very confusing.
And you count them out and it's, it's just very stilted and by
(28:39):
the time you've done it for youknow 10 years you're just like I
don't know.
You just throw the ball, likejust do that, you just do it.
It's fluid, and I think that'sthe same concept when you're
trying to learn how to doanything.
So I try to put this beginner'sguide together just to kind of
give you those foundationalpieces.
It'll feel weird at first andthen, once you've, after that
goes back to the original andyou're just reapplying the same
(29:00):
kind of methods to learning anew aspect.
So it's, it's, it's.
It can definitely be a lot, butit's.
You don't have to be insaneabout it, just depends how deep
into it you want to go.
So that's, that's the for thosewho are new, for those who
already have points and are justtrying to figure out how to use
them and use them better.
(29:21):
I have my award alertsnewsletter where I send out
award space and business infirst class on international
routes and break down thedifferent ways you can use your
points and the best ways and whyyou'd want to do one versus
another.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
So my older brother says I idiot, proof the process
If your brother says that, thenyeah, you must be doing
something, right?
Speaker 2 (29:41):
I wrote him instructions on how to book a
flight once when we were goingto see our younger brother in
Japan and uh, this I was like aprecursor to me writing this
newsletter.
I was like, oh, there'ssomething to this, just lay it
out.
Um, so yeah, and that's.
Those are the two main thingsand hopefully it helps people
kind of go from A to Z.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Yeah, well, my favorite thing is is I Delta
points.
They changed the way that theyou know I used to get tons of
points for flying.
Now it's like all my flightsare like economy flights to
Orlando and stuff.
So, you get nothing for him now,right and it's.
You know, you got to pay moremoney or something.
I don't know what in the worldtheir deal is, but they
definitely screwed me up.
So but I, I, you know I'll useLyft because Lyft will give you
(30:23):
points.
I, when I get pizza, I go toDonato's pizza because I've got
some kind of thing hooked upwith my credit card where it'll
it'll send me that in, andthere's several ways that I can
get points by doing other thingsthat tie into.
I think it was dining rewards.
Delta has a dining rewardsthing or something, but it ties
into my Delta sky miles.
So you know, I'm doing thatkind of stuff but I I try to
(30:47):
funnel everything into Delta skymiles.
Are there?
Is that like a strategy thatyou see people using or that you
recommend to people say like,hey, find your favorite points
program and then funnel kind ofeverything into that?
Speaker 2 (31:01):
To an extent, I would say don't have a favorite
points program, Be agnostic.
The loyalty programs are likethey play on emotion.
That's great, that's marketing,that's how they do it.
But I'm like I don't care whichprogram it is.
To me it's just like which isgoing to get me the goal.
Care which program it is, to meit's just like which is going
to get me the goal.
And so if I want to fly toEurope and I know that these
(31:22):
airlines are, or these airlineshave lots of flights, and I know
these are the points I can use,I'm concerned about these
points.
I'm not concerned about someother potential option that
maybe I like them more.
I'm like that's doesn't matterif I like them.
This is about the goal.
Um, I I'm going to suggest toyou that maybe you try branching
out from sky miles.
Uh, because in my I would say,educated opinion, uh, they're
(31:45):
one of the worst on the planetwhen it comes to redeeming
points.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
They've been messing me up.
Yeah, They've been ruining.
Over the years They've gottenworse.
I.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
I.
I get questions sometimes.
I'm like oh, do you do braindeals with airlines?
I'm like, well, not Delta.
At least I've said too manythings.
I say that as someone whosefather flew 2.8 million miles on
Delta for work travel, so I'mfamiliar.
This is not.
This is not me just talking.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Your dad might as well just got his pilot's
license.
At that point, just go aheadand fly your own plane.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Yeah for sure.
Yeah, I think part of it islearning about one.
Just, different programs offerdifferent benefits and then,
when you can earn points withcredit cards, you can transfer
to lots of different airlines.
And so you start to think aboutlike I can book the same flight
so like let's do a quickexample like Swiss Swiss flies
(32:37):
to Zurich from a bunch ofairports in the U?
S.
You could book with Unitedmiles.
I think most Americans wouldthink about United cause it's an
American carrier, but you couldalso use air Canada's aeroplane
program or you could useAvianca life miles.
And it's like it's all bookingthe same flight.
You're just using a differentprogram that also partners with
Swiss.
They're all star Alliance.
It's like it's.
It feels very confusing at thebeginning, but it all starts to
(32:59):
kind of make sense.
It's like a little puzzle.
But each program has their ownaward rates.
So you're just looking for likewhich one's going to charge me
fewer points so that I cantransfer points from my bank
fewer than I would have to orotherwise have to.
So it's again like it's.
It's a bit like puttingtogether a puzzle.
Yeah, it just takes a littlethought.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Well, I'm a big Chase guy.
My wife likes the AmericanExpress stuff and she's got that
.
What is it?
It's like the purple AmericanExpress Delta card and there's
like another one.
It's like the problem I havewith all these credit cards and
maybe you can demystify this forpeople but they'll have like
three or four points cards andI've got like the chase stuff
(33:41):
right.
One of them will get youcertain things, the other one
will get you other things andthen this one will get you this
thing.
So you got to have like two orthree of them to get all the
things that you actually wantand then remember to use them.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Yeah, I know, people put stickers on their cards that
says like grocery or dining orwhatever.
I mean, it's whatever it takes.
But yeah, to me I always tellpeople there's kind of three
main approaches to credit cardsif you want to travel.
And there's the keep it simplestupid.
It's just like you get one tothree cards.
They have bonus categories thatfit your spend patterns.
(34:15):
Then you never think aboutcredit cards again Works really
well for businesses with a highspend.
In the middle is more of kind ofa hub and supplement, where
it's like you build a truly ahub of like four to five credit
cards, again focused on bonuscategories, and then you pick up
a new card for a signup bonushere and there, based on
whatever your travel needs are.
And then, if you just like wantto go way too far, you can do
(34:39):
the kind of maximalist approachwhich is just focus on earning
signup bonuses repeatedly and soit's a.
It's it's, I mean, at itsbasics or most basic.
It's just the simplest for themost complex, but also the
fewest points to the most points.
So it just depends what kind ofbandwidth you have, how much
(35:00):
you want to invest into a hobby.
Uh, just time-wise.
Um, I don't know.
I always put it.
I always put it like I knowpeople who play golf and some
show up on the weekend, have afew beers and hit the ball and
then others go to the drivingrange Cause they want to be good
on the weekend when they go outwith their buddies and like one
of you is going to be a lotbetter, yeah, that's OK.
And like the people who don'tput in that time and effort,
(35:21):
they just have to know that,like they're not going to be the
best one out there, Set yourexpectations yeah.
Yeah, exactly, just kind of knowwhat you're getting into.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
And do you ever cancel cards or you just kind of
let them, like once that allthe benefits expire, do you
cancel them and then hope theysend you another offer or
something, or how's that work?
Speaker 2 (35:38):
So I always tell people I give every card a fair
shake, that I get every card.
I got to give it a fair shakefor like a year and if it's got
to earn its keep, it's pretty,it's I don't know, I don't know
it's harsh, but it's just.
If you're going to, if thecard's going to provide more
benefits that I'm going to haveto pay in the annual fee, I will
consider keeping it.
Keeping it Sometimes I stillwon't keep it because I don't
(36:01):
think it provides enough basedon the annual fee.
I'm unusual in that I travel alot more than most people, so
it's easier for me to leverage alot of benefits.
But otherwise I think it's likeI always say you get kind of
your keepers, the ones thatyou're going to stick with in
the wallet and if some, if a newcard comes out or maybe a
card's earning structure changesa bit and it fits you better,
well then you just replace it.
(36:21):
It's a, it's cutthroat.
I don't like, I don't know whatto tell you.
It's like I don't have anyemotional attachment to some
bank's credit card.
No, no, no, no.
It's like.
That's just what it is.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
So I mean they're banks.
They don't care about us ocean.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
So fine, hey, that's fine.
I'm just utilizing the programsthey've set up and, yeah,
there's, there's just, it's justa matter of kind of putting
together the wallet that fitsyour life.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
I need BlackRock to come up with a card, since they
own everything.
They'd have a great rewardsprogram.
It'd be like every, every S&P500 company would participate.
So so, ok, top three cardsright now, like at this moment,
if somebody was like man, I, Iwant to take advantage of this.
What do you think the top, if Icould say sign up for three
(37:13):
cards.
They're going to balance outwith each other and they got
great programs right now.
Which ones do you think and Iknow I'm putting you on the spot
, but which ones would you saywould be would be good ones to
have in your wallet?
Speaker 2 (37:23):
As my friends will tell you, I have the urge to ask
lots of follow-up questions toget an insight into where
they're spending money.
But broadly speaking, I thinkfor those who want to travel and
are going to be out quite a bit, I think the Capital One
Venture X is an easy one forpeople because it just earns 2x
points on any of your day-to-dayspending.
It's just easy.
Basically, the goal to me isnever earn 1x on a purchase, and
(37:47):
that just makes it easy.
You're not.
Basically, the goal to me isnever earned one X on a purchase
, and that just makes it easy.
And so you also have loungeaccess with that um for a lot of
airports, so that helps.
So if you're traveling a lot,um, that can be really useful
and I think you know it's.
It's the best bang for yourbuck If you want perks like that
as well as like trip delayinsurance in case your flight
gets delayed and it'll cover ahotel for you, stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
So I think, that's a oh.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
There's a lot of fun benefits that most people don't
have ever even scratched.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
So don't buy the travel insurance on the website
Wait but use a card that has thetravel insurance.
Yeah, I mean truly.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
And I, a lot of people are like, oh, I'll never
use it.
And then I tell them I'm like,well, I'd used it four times in
four months because you justnever know.
Wow, so it's.
But yeah, I think that's aneasy one for people.
I think those who are going tokind of dig in a bit more, I
always tell people to start withlike Chase Ultimate Rewards
cards, so like the ChaseSapphire Preferred or the Chase
(38:38):
Sapphire Reserve, which you canthen pair with like a Chase
Freedom Flex or Chase FreedomUnlimited.
If you have a business, you canpair it with any of the three
ink cards the ink preferred, inkcash and ink unlimited, and
they all can pull their pointstogether.
So business owners have a hugeadvantage of this.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
I've got the reserves , so I've got that one, and it's
yeah it's.
It definitely racks up some,some points there.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Yeah, and I and I always tell people if you want
to kind of get dig deep intopoints, chase is really where
you want to start, because theydo have some rules about whether
or not they'll approve you andthey're just more strict.
So, um, yeah, that that gets inthe weeds I cover in the
beginner's guide if anybodywants to understand why.
But it's, um, but that's can bea good one for people who are
kind of trying to push a littlebit more.
(39:22):
But I think you have a lot ofoptions honestly.
Um, there's's Amex cards thatare membership rewards points,
same concept as Chase.
Ultimate Awards, same conceptas Capital One's miles.
They just transfer to a bunchof partners.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Oh, that's, the key is being able to move this stuff
around.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
And that's the fun part.
I mean you can use the pointswithin their kind of internal
travel portals, but the value isgenerally a lot higher when
you're transferring to airlines.
Um, it's not the sexy part Ithink people love when they earn
a lot of points, like that'sexciting.
They see their balance go upand I'm like that's just, that's
the first step.
Yeah, like rubber meets theroad on the trip.
(40:02):
Like you don't just earn thesejust to have them.
Um, yeah, there's, it's's not,it's not an investment.
This is not like your stockportfolio.
These will not these.
The value is not going up.
Airlines will devalue theprograms.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
earn them, use them like this is when you got a nice
filter program, a nice filteron your, on your on the credit
card part, like the best creditcards recommending here and
there's a lot of cards.
But if I want hotels I canfilter by hotels, airlines, rent
, rent.
There's that built card andI've seen that's really cool and
I get like full disclosure.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
I serve on like an advisory board for them, but
they are a fascinating programbecause they are rewarding
people who rent and there hasn'tbeen a lot for renters.
No, it's been the opposite ofthat.
Yeah, so, as someone who hasrented his entire life, it was
really exciting when theylaunched this, but it's so.
It's a loyalty program forrenters.
But they also offer a creditcard.
(40:56):
You can join with or withoutthe card, um, and they're.
They're doing some reallycreative things and interesting
things in the space.
Um, but just be honestly like,if you live in a big city and
you spend too much money on rentthe way I do in DC, uh, it's uh
move back to Lexington You'llyou'll have to rent probably
yeah.
Oh I, I, I love looking at costof living comparisons.
(41:18):
Just to make myself hurt.
I'm like I'm sorry, did you saythat rent 70% cheaper?
Speaker 1 (41:24):
No, I do that too, but I look at the cost of living
calculator for differentcountries.
So, oh yeah, you can do thattoo.
You for buenos aires, right,like I'm looking at that and
it's and I've got a little hacktoo the blue rate right, you
send money via western uniondown there and you get twice
what the bank will give youright, or you go on the street
and get even more, but then youget counterfeit money but yeah
(41:46):
and it and it's so cheap it'slike crazy.
I'm like you know, the food onthe street is like looks
delicious and it's like 50 centsand it's like man, I could just
, I could just work remote andjust do whatever.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Oh, I thought about that.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Live like a king.
Oh, you, 100%, should do it.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Look at what you're doing here.
So we're going to stick to thisfor now, but I'm telling you, I
got to say the first.
I just remember being inRomania with my buddy, tim, and
we're like walking aroundBucharest and I was like this is
a cool neighborhood.
I wonder how much it like coststo live here.
And I'm like looking at luxuryapartment and I'm like
absolutely not.
I can't look at this anymore.
This is too depressing.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
We did that in Budapest.
We did that same thing Anywherein Eastern Europe.
It's ridiculous.
And Montenegro, like beautiful,right, yeah, and you're looking
at it and you're like this isgreat.
Or South America Name a countryin South Iroquois, right Monty
video.
And it's like on, you're on thewater, you're in a major city
(42:43):
in a country that's got itsstuff together.
It's just stupid cheap.
It's just like wild.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Oh my goodness, we're spoiled.
In america you can do, you cando the same thing in thailand
and you see these places andyou're like.
You're like, oh, luxuryapartment, eight hundred dollars
a month, less.
It's like okay never mind.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
My wife and I walked it.
We were in phuket.
We walked out of our resort.
We go onto this little streetand all there is is restaurants
and massage parlors, right, andwe go into the first massage
parlor, we look at the pricesand we're like we got to be
adding this up, wrong, right?
Well, we get there and at theend, four bucks for both of us
to get an hour massage.
I'm like Melissa, you know howcheap it would be for us to live
(43:20):
here, like we could live likekings, but she owns a spa.
Same thing your wife, you know,she, she has a physical place.
She has to be every day.
So that's the downside.
So so tell me, spencer, like,what would be the best way for
people to get started with you,with your program, to get
involved in, in, you know,starting this kind of side
(43:42):
hustle, you know working creditcards for points and everything.
Would it be your newsletter?
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Yeah, I would say, if you're new to kind of credit
card points, um, and even if youthink you know a lot, it's not
a bad idea to get a refresher.
I think the beginner's guide onthe site is a great place to
start.
If you have points and you'relooking to travel
internationally, uh and businessor first-class, the newsletter
is the way to go.
Um, I'm also very active onInstagram.
My handle's at straight to thepoints, and I do a lot of.
(44:10):
I do put up a lot of content,answer a lot of questions on
there, so that's a great way tokind of stay current.
I love it, man.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
This has been great.
Well, it's good to speak to aKentucky guy.
We get people from all over theworld and it's like, man, I
Lexington guy, you're an hourhour and 15 minutes away from
where I'm at, so actually I'malready across the river.
It's probably an hour.
So yeah, man, this has beenawesome and congratulations on
you know, being able to start abusiness doing something you
love.
I mean, this is, it's,outstanding.
(44:38):
Is there anything we didn'ttalk about that you want to tell
people?
Speaker 2 (44:42):
I think we covered it .
I think the only thing I wouldsay is just, it can feel like a
lot at the beginning becauseit's a whole new thing.
Just take it slow.
Everybody is going.
Everybody will have felt whatyou feel as you try to like, get
a, get a handle on all these,like all this new information,
and don't be shy about askingquestions.
We've all asked them.
Oh yeah, I'll be asking a lotof questions.
(45:03):
Cool man?
Speaker 1 (45:11):
Well, I'm definitely.
I I'm going to sign up for thenewsletter.
I'm going to take a look atyour website a little more in
depth and yeah, you're a wealthof knowledge and I appreciate
you being on here with us.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
Yeah, thanks so much for having me.
Adam, appreciate it.
All right, have a good one.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Thanks for joining us on this week's episode of Side
Hustle City.
Well, you've heard from ourguests, now let's hear from you.
Join our community on Facebook,side hustle city.
It's a group where people shareideas, share their
inspirational stories andmotivate each other to be
successful and turn their sidehustle into their main hustle.
We'll see you there and we'llsee you next week on the show.
(45:38):
Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!