86 - Lisa Niver takes small steps toward feeling brave and finding joy - Sideline Sisters

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Hey ladies, this is Sideline Sisters and I'm your host Jenny
Chaffetz. This is a show for no BS midlife
women who want to escape the mundane routine of their lives
and be captivated by conversations that are fun,
relevant and juicy. These interviews will take you
into the lives of relatable women who've gone on a journey
and live to share the lessons. They will be funny, sad, scary,

(00:30):
wise, encouraging, and real. These are the stories you want
to hear. This show is your invitation to
take back your power, reignite your passions, and step off the
sidelines. Let's go.
Hey everybody, welcome to this week's episode of the Sideline
Sisters Podcast. I'm your host Jenny Chaffetz and

(00:51):
I am so excited to finally be onYouTube.
It's taken me a while to figure out.
How to do video? But as I'm approaching 50, it's
all about figuring things out and reinventions, so it's timely
that Sideline Sisters branches out to videos.
So if you have not subscribed tothe YouTube channel, please do

(01:12):
so. The link is in the show notes.
I am so excited about this week's conversation.
Today I am bringing you Lisa Niver.
She is a telly, award-winning travel journalist, TV host, and
author of the award-winning memoir Brave Ish 1 Breakup, 6
Continents and Feeling Fearless After 50.
She's explored over 100 countries on all 7 continents.

(01:35):
Even though you heard me say 6 continents in the subtitle of
her book, because now she's reached all 7.
She has bylines in USA TODAY, 10Best, the Los Angeles Times, and
Wired host of the podcast Make Your Own map.
Lisa inspires audiences worldwide through her bold
adventures, powerful storytelling, and passion for

(01:56):
reinvention, which is really what this show is all about.
Here on Sideline Sisters, my goal is to showcase women who
have done remarkable things in the face of and in spite of
challenges. Because I don't care who you
are, what your name is, what youhave in the bank, or how big

(02:17):
your house is, challenges happen.
No one escapes without facing something difficult.
And so on this show, I want to bring you stories from people
that you can relate to, people who can inspire and empower you
to face whatever you're facing with newfound strength and
confidence. And I think you're going to get

(02:39):
that from Lisa today. But before we get into the show,
I have to tell you about my exciting new 12 week program for
midlife women who want to move from burnt out to balanced.
And I know balance is one of those words people are throwing
around right now and there is shatter that there's no such
thing as balance. Well, as I discussed with Lisa

(03:02):
in today's conversation, it's about perspective.
So right now, if you're living in the perception of burnt out,
wouldn't you rather live in the perception of balanced?
And you're balanced is going to look different than someone
else's balanced because we're all individuals.
So the point is, if you want to shift from the crappy, stressed

(03:22):
and overwhelmed feelings that you have all the time into
something that feels better, something resembling balanced,
then let's work together. So there's a link in the show
notes for coaching application and I would just love it.
If you would fill that out. So that we can start this
process of working together and incorporating coping strategies
and skills that will allow you to face the obstacles that are

(03:47):
currently in your life and that will inevitably show up and move
through them so you can go forward with the feelings you.
Want to have? Like joy, confidence,
excitement, serenity, and maybe even a little adventure, which
is something that comes up in today's show.
So be sure to check the show notes for the coaching
application. And now let's get into the

(04:07):
conversation with Lisa Niver. I am very.
Excited to welcome Lisa Niver tothe Sideline Sisters podcast.
Lisa. Hi.
Hi. Thank you so much.
Thanks for having me here, Jenny.
It's so exciting. Oh good.
I mean, maybe not as exciting asgoing to Antarctica, but
exciting nonetheless. That there's not a lot of things

(04:30):
as exciting as going to Antarctica when you've been wait
when, when your book subtitle says 6 continents and then you
get to go to your 7th continent.It was pretty exciting.
I was. I was waiting.
Yeah, yeah. So I mean, we're just here in
regular space and time and there's no Penguins walking by,
but we'll, we'll make do. We'll make it exciting

(04:51):
nonetheless. So I want to get started saying,
you know, I, I read your bio to the audience.
So they, they know a little bit about you, but we're going to go
way deeper. I find it really interesting
that we on the surface or on paper have quite a few things in

(05:12):
common. You and I, we both went to Penn.
We are both Jewish women. We were both teachers at one
point. We both, shock of all shocks on
my part, we both got to experience the Park City bobsled

(05:33):
well. However, the differences I think
are way more grand in that firstI did not enjoy the bobsled the
way you did. I was terrified.
Did you get that part? I was scared but I.

(05:54):
Yeah, no, I was terrified and hated it.
OK, you taught science. That was the one subject I
actually had to like bribe my teaching partner, my my grade
level partner to take off my hands.
I'm like, load me up on the essays, the poetry that all the,

(06:15):
the heavy, the heavy lifting. Just can you do the, the
science, please? I can't be bothered with that.
Not the subject you taught. So I find that hilarious.
And then and then we'll we'll really get into into the dirt
here. I have heard you say on many
different podcasts that you callyour book brave ish because you

(06:37):
didn't necessarily identify as someone brave.
That's correct. And I'm curious if you would
identify as someone adventurous because I like you with the
brave thing. I do not call myself
adventurous, but I think that's probably pretty accurate because
I don't do adventurous things. You do adventurous things.

(07:01):
Is that a word that resonates with you?
OK, that's interesting. I, I did, that's true.
I always talk about brave ish 'cause I did not feel brave.
And that was a big revelation for me doing the 50 challenges
that are in my book adventurous.I would say I am now, would I

(07:24):
say I always was. I did love growing up.
You know, I've been thinking, obviously with all that's gone
on lately and, and the horrible situation in Texas with the
especially the girls at camp, I've been thinking so much about
summer camp. And I did love summer camp.
And as my friends have sent their kids away to summer camp,

(07:44):
watching them be thinking about their children being away for
two weeks or six weeks. And I used to go away, I believe
8 or 9 weeks. I was always really happy to do
that. So I think bravery and adventure
are a lot about perspective. So some what one person it can
tolerate, another one can't. Just like I, I actually really

(08:08):
like to go to the movies by myself because you're not
supposed to talk. And I know a lot of other people
don't want to go to the restaurant by themselves or the
movie by themselves or anywhere by themselves.
Although in LA everybody's in their car by themselves all the
time. So a lot of it's perspective,
but yes, I am adventurous. I would agree with you.
You know, it's funny, I heard you talk about the movie thing

(08:30):
on another podcast as I was walking through the supermarket
one day and I'm like, standing, looking at the pasta, nodding my
head like, yeah, why? Why do people not think they can
go to the movies alone when you're literally sitting in the
dark, quiet? Like, if of all activities, like
maybe you don't want to go to Disney alone, or maybe you don't

(08:52):
want to go on sunset cruise in the harbor by yourself.
There might be a lot of couples there that might be awkward, but
the movies? It's.
Just like nonsense. But I think that one of the
things that I always talk about when I'm speaking is how small
steps lead to big changes. And I think some of the

(09:14):
roadblocks we have for ourselvesare how we think about
ourselves. Like it's not necessarily that
people can't sit for breakfast in the hotel alone because often
a lot of people, even if they live in a busy house, they may
have a meal alone at their own dining room table.
They may have breakfast alone. And they have, you know, if
you're one kids at soccer and one your spouse is at work, you

(09:39):
might have dinner alone. And I don't think people think,
Oh my God, I can't have dinner by myself.
But it's it's more about the judgement that you walk into the
restaurant and the Hostess says just one.
Right table for one. Yeah, just one is.
Anyone else joining you? No.
Which, you know, that's not about you.
Who cares? And, and the movie thing too,

(10:00):
you know, like show up 5 minuteslate.
No, you don't have to show anybody or, or even going to the
theater in New York by yourself.It's sometimes very easy to get
a solo ticket because there's, you know, this group of five and
this group of two and there's a seat and you might get a much
better ticket. And again, you're supposed to be
quiet and you're sitting in the dark.

(10:21):
I think what you bring up, though, like the sunset cruises,
people want to share the experience.
And I appreciate that. And, you know, even going to the
museum, like you might see a painting that you love and you
want to turn to someone and say,this is what I like about it,
and that's different. But adventure, you know, for me,
I'm a scuba diver and we always scuba dive with a buddy.

(10:43):
And so if I go by myself, they match me up with someone and
sometimes I get to go with the most experienced dive master
because everyone has a buddy butme.
Sometimes I don't. Once I remember I would did
this. I don't remember what cruise I
was on, but I went on the kayak expedition and I was by myself

(11:03):
and they were all double kayaks.And so the guide was like, why
don't you just come with me and I'll paddle?
And I was like. Yes, OK, Twist my arm.
You know, it's funny that you mentioned that about diving
because I, well, I haven't done it in many years.
I did get certified and do a bunch of dives over the course
of however many years that I wasactive.

(11:25):
And there was one time my husband is tortured by
seasickness. So, you know, you often have to
take a boat out to a site and then while you're getting all
your gear on, it's the glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug,
glug, glug. And it's like hurry up and get
in the water so I don't get seasick.

(11:46):
Well, unfortunately the hurry updidn't happen fast enough and he
was like throwing up into his mask under it was a disaster.
So he gave me the like I'm goingup signal and I'm like, what
about me? I need a buddy.
And so I ended up, you know, he went up and signaled to the the
the one of the guides that was sitting on the boat or I don't

(12:07):
somehow I was matched up with a guide mid dive.
And like you said, I don't know if it's the trail of vomit he
left or just being with a guide.But I ended up seeing such
phenomenal things that I might not have seen if it was the two
of us navigating on our own. But it was it ended up being a

(12:30):
fortuitous experience because, you know, here comes the sea
turtle and, you know, just greatthings that were a surprise.
So yeah, turned out solo diving to my advantage.
Don't know, but that's that's the whole part of being on an
adventure. Yeah.
So yeah, I guess it's it's like,I guess then I would call myself

(12:52):
adventure ish. OK.
That's your brave ish. I like it.
Oh goodness. All right, so you mentioned a
moment ago small steps. I love that that's come up on
this show from from various people who have found themselves
in challenging circumstances needing to just take that one

(13:16):
that first small step in the direction that they went ahead.
You have recounted your story onlots of other shows, so I'm not
going to make you do the tell all right here.
People can people can read the book, but I guess there's a
couple of things that I I'm massively intrigued by 1

(13:39):
choosing to pivot from the straight and narrow from medical
school, which is just hilarious because I just interviewed
someone who did a hard right from the medical school route to
fashion and makeup. So major shift for that life

(14:00):
plan. You also did that.
So there was, there was that big, big pivot and then
obviously leaving your marriage.I imagine both of those hurdles
involved some small steps. Yes, small steps, leaving

(14:24):
medical school and leaving my marriage.
Do you remember the game shoots in ladders?
There's that, you know, you climb.
That was that was one of my favorites.
Yeah, OK. Climb all the way up the ladder
and then you're very far back down.
I'd say my company going bankrupt after September 11th, 7
days after September 11th and deciding to come back from Asia

(14:47):
after the last day I ever saw myhusband and Med school may be a
little bit different but they didn't feel the same as like
choices. It seemed like there was only
one choice and I just had to step through the door.
So they were very challenging, hard, traumatic choices.

(15:09):
I, I felt like in a lot of ways,I've, you know, my train fell
off the tracks and coming back from those things involved a lot
of small steps and dead ends andone way streets that you're
going the wrong direction and starting over is so hard, no

(15:30):
matter how many times you've started over, You know, after
the COVID pandemic, I wrote a lot of my book during the
pandemic and found my agent during the pandemic.
And, but yes, a small steps always help.
And for me, I again, you know, scuba diving is one of my big
things is that you need a buddy.And so a lot of getting through

(15:51):
all of those challenging times, I needed to lean on other
people, my family, my friends, finding community.
And those do take small steps. You have to reach out, you have
to call someone. You have to get out of your
house. Staying in your house all day in
your pyjamas, probably not goingto feel that much better, but
maybe and sharing. So, you know, for me, writing

(16:13):
the book was very cathartic. After medical school when I, I
decided I went on a leave for a year.
And when I went on leave, I started doing ceramics, I found
an art community and I started scuba diving.
So both of those things really helped support me when I left
school and when I left Asia and I came back to Los Angeles and I

(16:37):
eventually did get divorced. I did go back to art and I went
back to teaching and that was when I first started writing for
USA TODAY. So there was a lot of small
steps in a lot of kind of eclectic directions.
That's amazing, and that's so encouraging for people who do
feel like either scattered or untethered, that there's hope

(17:03):
for them. Yeah, I mean, there was a lot of
crying and a lot of therapy. And, you know, I had the art
things. When I had left my husband, I
had tried a lot of things. Someone told me you can't do new
things in an old way. So I tried kickboxing, which
didn't stick. And I, you know, eventually did

(17:24):
the 50 challenges. But it was all kind of part of
trying to figure out how to get my brain restarted.
So when you were coming up with the 50 challenges, were you just
like pulling ideas from the sky?Were they things that you heard
yourself say over the years? I could never do that, or I wish

(17:46):
I could do that, Or were they suggestions from other people?
How did the list originate? And then Part B, what from the
list? Maybe sprinkle in things that
you're like, Nope, never again. Hated that.
Did it, but no thanks. That was amazing.

(18:07):
I'm going to keep that. So, so in Bravish we talked
about how did it get started? So I was on a press trip in
Texas and someone else was doing40 things before she turned 40.
And I was really enamored of herproject and her.
And I kept saying that's so great, but I could never do

(18:30):
that. And finally after a couple of
times that we've gone through the same, you know, round and
round, one of the women took me aside and said, can you not do
it because you're over 40? And I said yes.
She said, so do 50 things before50.
And I looked at it. I said, you do 60 things before
you're 60. And she said, oh, I would never

(18:51):
let these people know how old I am.
And I said, so why should I do it?
And so we were at this conference and as I was talking
with the different, we had different networking meetings.
I kind of was like, I'm kind of thinking about this fifty before
50 idea. And a lot of the destinations
had suggestions and I was like, I don't know, that sounds kind

(19:13):
of scary. And so I was like, well, isn't
that the whole point of the project?
And I was like, please don't usemy words against me.
And that's, well, basically how the list came about.
There were I had an eye issue growing up that hadn't been
quite diagnosed. That's in the book.
And so a lot of the 50 things kind of came out of that, that I
had had a bike accident and thatled to I had done a skiing

(19:36):
project and they invited me for biking and I refused and
eventually I relented and I wentmountain biking.
So you asked, what things have Inot done Again?
I've not rushed back to mountainbike.
It was challenging. I did end up having a great
time, but I have not rushed back.
And like you already mentioned, the bobsled, I was terrified I

(20:01):
did it. It was really fun.
Don't think I'll ever do that again.
I don't know how long ago you went.
There were there was a time whenit was a much tougher ride.
They made it shorter because people were feeling so sick from
it. I mean, I don't know how much
shorter it could have been. We got the some kind of a.

(20:22):
A. Picture at the I I don't even I
think we got a picture at the end that that showed I guess
kind of like on a Disney ride, like it showed the bobsled and
it said on it the fastest speed and the length of the the ride.
And while it felt like, you know, six hours, it I think was

(20:46):
like 66 seconds or something like that, 75 seconds it was.
Really like, I guess you're never going again, but the IT is
a unique experience and I, I the50 things all were sort of
authentic. They either came out of like

(21:07):
taking back something that I hadan accident from or, you know,
skiing or mountain biking. A lot of them were big
adventures. Some of them had to do with, you
know, I worked on the cruise ship in the industry for quite a
long time. But when I was travelling, we
didn't go everywhere. So I at the time, you couldn't
go to Cuba with an American passport.

(21:29):
And so I, there was a time when it was easier.
I and I did go. And so that was like taking
back. I had travelled in the Caribbean
on the ship basically around andaround Cuba and that was great
to go there. And then someone had recommended
I count up my countries. I have, you know, there's
different ways to count and the Travelers Century Club, I've

(21:50):
been well over 100 for a very long time.
But on a more traditional counting I was close.
And so I found landlocked countries that I had never been
to because of the cruising or there's a every most people are
familiar in Italy that Vatican is inside the country of Italy,
but there's also San Marino. So I went there and, you know,

(22:14):
it's like discovering little bits.
So it was about, you know, my travel career, my scuba love or
my at art. I've done art, like we said,
since I dropped out of medical school.
And in fact, in college, I had taken some a sculpture class and
that professor was amazing. But the woman that ran the
studio was at at the time, she said, why don't you do a party

(22:37):
and make 50 bowls? And I wasn't sure, like, could I
make 50? Could I make 50 in time?
And then she's like, you call ita pop party?
And I was like, oh tawny, that'sterrible.
Everyone will think it's about smoking.
I know they'll be excited to come to your party and then all
of a sudden they're like ceramicbowls.
What? I was like, I don't do that.

(22:58):
And she said, Lisa, everyone that knows you knows you don't
do that. That's why it's funny.
Sometimes things can be funny. And I was like, all right.
That's good. So I did it and I had made them
and everyone came and it was really fun to have a my own
show. That's cute.
There used to be a charity near me that did something, it was

(23:19):
like Super Sunday or something, soup, you know, like serve soup.
And you went and, and it was allphilanthropic based.
So you bought the original unique soup bowl.
And then there was a whole big soup festival.
So you used your bowl. Yeah.
Yeah. It was very clever.
And then you ended up with a, a piece of art that you're

(23:41):
bringing home, you know, a a JoeSchmo original.
Like it was very cool. I might have to take part of
that. Yeah, you could.
You could start one. I could start 1.
You have so many ideas. So many ideas.
That's what we do here. We just generate ideas on this
show. OK, good.
Hey ladies, I'm interrupting this show to tell you about

(24:03):
gentle coaching. If you've been following along,
you know I am all about life coaching and breath work for
midlife women. Is that you?
If it is, let's go. I have a 12 week package that is
designed to take you from burnt out to balanced.
So if you're feeling the stress,overwhelm, and chaos of midlife

(24:24):
womanhood, I got you. I know all about that life and I
also know how to deal with it. So head to the show notes, click
the coaching application and let's get started.
Now back to the show. All right, so Speaking of ideas,
you have developed a lot of things.
You have you've developed, accomplished, created many

(24:48):
different things in your life and I would love for you to talk
about the TV aspect of your lifebecause it's so exciting right
now it. Is so exciting.
So when I think about things I've created, like I have the
podcast, I have the book, I got to be the narrator of the book.

(25:09):
Not everybody might know this, but to be the narrator of your
audiobook, if you have a publisher, you have to audition.
I heard you say that and I was floored.
I had no, I mean, like, is that really like, like Reese
Witherspoon had to audition to read her teacup book?
I'm not sure that. Maybe not Reese.
I don't. May what if you are

(25:33):
traditionally published? So my book was published by Post
Hill Press and Simon and Schuster.
So they gave the rights to the audio book, to recorded books.
And then when you work with a team and it's not only you, you
have to do what they say and they get to decide who could be
a great narrator. So you'd think for a memoir that
you want the author, but it it doesn't always work out.

(25:56):
And you asked what else I created.
So I was so fortunate. I got, I work with the Jet Set
TV and this is the Telly Award. It's so beautiful.
For my TV segment about Ireland,I got to do a 24 minute travel
TV special on the Jet Set TV. It aired last December and also

(26:19):
in April. And those two airings together
had 550 million media impressions as a half a billion.
And I won the award. And in fact, one of the parts of
it we put on my podcast, Make Your Own Map.

(26:39):
This is a first place lifestyle feature for the interview at
Giant's Causeway, which is an incredible place in the northern
part of Ireland. And Neville, he had, it's so
many great stories, we couldn't fit them all in the TV show
because 24 minutes just wasn't enough.
So he got his own. So it's been quite this summer.

(27:02):
That's it's just phenomenal. And so that makes me want to ask
you. Yeah.
I feel like it's down, but it's so exciting.
No, I mean it holds the this is a brand new.
You cradle it. Yeah, you use this word in our
pre show conversation. What does it mean to you to be

(27:25):
acknowledged as a winner? Oh, I think, I, I think about
acknowledgements a lot, like when when I was writing this
book in COVID by myself, when I wasn't traveling and it was so
hard to write and so cathartic. And I kept thinking, you know,
if it in the end, if it never got published, if I never got

(27:47):
ancient, it would have been still worth doing.
And as far as winning, I've beennominated.
I've been very fortunate to be nominated with the Press Club in
the Southern California Journalism Awards and the
National Arts and Entertainment Journalism Awards many times, in
fact, 40. And I've won 1110 second and

(28:08):
third. So this is my first first and
you know, to win a telly for my very first full 24 minute
segment. It's it's incredible to be
acknowledged because I'm really do a lot of my work alone and
you don't know how you're doing.You know, it's, it's great to do

(28:30):
stuff, but does anybody care? Does anybody like it?
I mean, the book has won by itself 10 awards, which is
phenomenal. And so it's nice to know that
someone's receiving what you're putting out there.
You know, I wouldn't not do whatI'm doing, but it is nice to get
recognized. And just like I, we had talked

(28:51):
to, so I had this summer 2 printstories in the past.
I've had five stories in print with them over the last year,
but two in this one travel issuefor two amazing, amazing
stories. This you mentioned earlier, I
got to go to Antarctica. So this story in online in
Pasadena magazine and some of these are my pictures.

(29:12):
And then I also gone twice to walk with the polar bears and
and trying to make sure I get this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I see them. That's my picture on the rocks
with the mom and the two Cubs. You know, it's so lucky to get
to go and it's so lucky to you know, here I am, it's like I'm

(29:32):
in print. You know, there's me, it's the
my editor's amazing. So there I am.
And that one's me too. But you know, so it's this is a
win to be in print. And you know, there's so many
levels of it, right? Like it's amazing to get invited
on the expedition. It's amazing to sell the story.

(29:54):
It's amazing to win the award and it's, you know, it's, it's
hard to do a lot of work on yourown and be creative.
Right now is a challenging time.There's a lot of started from
before COVID, but during COVID we lost a lot of the in flight
magazines. You know, it used to be whatever
plane you went on, you open the magazine.

(30:16):
I I've had the joy of being on United, Delta, American and Air
Canada when my story was in the magazine and I had some cute
photos like Me and the Flight Attendant and the print story in
my name. Fortunately, all those
magazines, I think on route might still exist, the one for

(30:39):
Air Canada, but most of them gone.
Some of them still do digital, but it's different.
It's funny in print or in a bookand it's a lot of work.
So it's nice to win and get acknowledged.
So whatever that win is being inprint, having the audio book,

(30:59):
you know, not every book gets anaudio book.
Not every book has an ebook. So I have an ebook, a print
book, the audio book. I have the podcast, I have the
TV show. Like it's some people say to me,
what do you do? And I'm like, it's kind of a
long story. I love that literally it's a
long story. Even YouTube the you know like

(31:22):
the the this segment is called Celtic Charm and this so it's on
my YouTube as well. So my YouTube is this close to
2.5 million views. It's like 2,000,400 I think and
30,000 or something so. Let's let's see what we can do
to help. One of my friends was like,
that's a rounding error. Just say you have 2.5 million I.

(31:44):
Like your thinking? Well, but, but I so remember
when I was excited that I had 100 views, yeah, or 1000 views
and it was quite a while from 1000 views to 1,000,000.
Yeah. A million to a million and a
half, 2,000,000 is like from 2 million to 2 and a half million
has been a lot faster than from zero to half a million.

(32:08):
It definitely, you know, you have a few more subscribers,
maybe you're a little better known, maybe you're doing bigger
projects, but it's still you only on everything.
You know, one person reads the story, one person buys the book,
one person watches on YouTube. It's it's interaction.

(32:29):
Yeah, yeah, I get it. I mean, getting engagement and
being engaged is it it's work. It takes effort to connect with
people as opposed to just, I don't know, like buying
billboard space and splashing something up there.

(32:50):
I mean, we're in engaging media.Right.
Well, we hope. We hope we're engaging.
The the media itself is an engaging method and we are
engaging with it. Yeah, that was convoluted.
Now I know I've heard you say, so I don't want you to repeat

(33:14):
that. We're going to take it just a
slightly different week. I've heard you say been asked
and answered the question about where have you not gone that you
want to go or what's left for you to see.
That's not the question. My question is more what in more

(33:35):
of a global sense do you want todo that you haven't done yet?
Yes, that is a question I've been asking myself a lot lately,
especially after winning all these awards and having the book
and going to my final continent is what do I want to build next?

(33:56):
And one thing that keeps coming up from other people is people
keep asking me, could they travel with me?
And so I've been thinking about if I would go on a cruise and do
a writing workshop or take people somewhere unique that
they might be afraid to go on their own.

(34:19):
So I think probably for 2026, that's what's going to happen
because that keeps coming up. That would be of service to
other people in their feeling more brave about travelling,
either more about the travel, the writing aspect or the
destination aspect. And part of that is what led me.

(34:43):
I have a travel writing class, Travel Writer One O 1 on Udemy.
So we can put a link and we can give a complimentary class for
your listeners. That so many people would ask me
how to get started that I made the class because people don't
realize it takes a lot right now.
It's not like 30 years ago when you were just the writer and

(35:05):
they sent a photographer and nowall the editors want not just
photos, they want video and theywant social media and they want
you to be engaged. It's a lot of different skill
sets. And so I think it's important
for people to understand what that looks like.
And, and like we were just saying with far fewer in flight

(35:29):
magazines and far fewer print options, sometimes you have to
build your own. So I have two websites.
I have, we said Go Travel, whichI've had since 2010.
And then I also have Lisa Niver because I built that for the
book really and the podcast and the class.
I mean, for a lot of things, butI mean, it's just just those
things, just the little things. But that would be maybe where

(35:52):
the trips would live. And then for myself, I would
love to do some more of the bigger TV segments.
Like I've been very fortunate tobe on really all the local
stations here in LA about my book and to go on and do 3 to 5
minutes, which is it's so much fun to share about my latest
travels. I was on Spectrum news about

(36:13):
Antarctica or other places aboutthe book, but I would the, doing
the 24 minute segment, having the whole segment.
I mean, in Ireland I got to, I had a Irish dancing lesson from
some world champions and I got to find out more about how the
nuns at Kyle Moore Abbey make chocolate.

(36:34):
And that was really special. And it was just such a great
experience. I, I've been in Ireland several
times and there's an opportunityto fly Hawks.
So I got to do that, do some falconry on camera into it.
So much excitement. And of course a hula hooped from
a turret of the castle. And who wouldn't want to keep

(36:56):
doing more of that? I mean, is there a way, I don't
know if this is your vision or now me just like spitballing for
you, but like the way Anthony Bourdain went to all those
different places and, you know, had a an incredibly exciting TV
show for from a viewer's perspective to see these parts

(37:17):
of the world that I might never go to.
And obviously there was a, a food element to it.
Like, you know, as he's zooming around the streets of Vietnam
and then eating Vietnamese food in some authentic little dive.
Is there is there anything like that in your vision of an actual
TV show hosting around the worldlike on Travel Channel or I

(37:41):
don't know, does that exist? Yes, it it definitely exists And
and you know, if they let me see, that's not them calling no.
No, no. All right.
A&E or TLC or whoever does thosekinds of things.
That would be amazing. I mean, right now a lot of the
travel content that's out there is either very high level

(38:05):
celebrity like Stanley Tucci in Italy.
Yeah, yeah. It's like with the Super Bowl
ads, like, aren't people sick ofcelebrities?
Like what happened to normal people?
Well, if there's a producer who's looking for a normal
person to lead a travel segment,I think that, you know, the,

(38:25):
the, the telly people have spoken.
I can't post and I would love todo more of that.
So I, I have been actively looking, I'm, I'm under
consideration right now with a production company to do a
project this summer in August and I'm literally waiting by the
middle of July, I should know ifI'm going with them or not.

(38:47):
So that would be great. And it's possible maybe I'll get
to do another segment in Irelandbecause there's so much to see
there and they know what I can do.
And now that I have the statistics and the analytics
that it was half a billion impressions plus, right we I

(39:07):
have written about Ireland for Pasadena magazine and I have a
videos on my channel and all thesocial posts.
So one of the lot. Of lot of touch points there.
One of the things I have to put together is like, you know, on
my Pinterest, surprisingly, I'm very big at Pinterest.
And so there's Pinterest and there's Instagram and there's

(39:27):
Tiktok and, you know, put it alltogether.
So that's what I have to do. I have to package it up all
together and be like, listen, it's a lot of views.
It won a lot of awards. And people like me, thank you
and let's go, right? Right.
Because I mean, I'm all for those, those I like those
celebrities and I'll watch them in movies, but I'd rather see a

(39:50):
real person that I can relate todoing these things that I may be
looking at as unattainable or scary, intimidating.
Well, now you throw in a celebrity and it's even further
away from me. It just.
I think that's a good point and we'll see, you know, the
pendulum swings like Eugene Levywas doing the show with Apple

(40:13):
Frugal Traveler. And I mean, the Finland was 1, I
believe the first one. And the cinematography was
$1,000,000 quality. I mean, it was spectacular.
I definitely wanted to go and dowhat he did.
But I agree with you. You know, there's, there's space
for everybody. There's a lot of channels.
And so I have to pick up my hustle and do another segment.

(40:38):
Right, Yeah, I know we we do. We have to advocate for
ourselves and make the effort. It's a lot.
It's a lot. It's a.
It takes some effort. So do you ever have moments
where you just want to be a homebody?

(41:00):
Yes, so I, I was at a really funparty during the July 4th
weekend and then the Sunday of July 4th, I literally lay in my
bed and binge watch Scandal because I'd never seen it.
And so I sometimes you definitely have to have a break.

(41:20):
Yeah, I mean, as I said, I I don't consider myself
adventurous and don't have the travel bug that you clearly
consider the video. Yeah, I, I mean, I often wonder
if it's too extreme. Like I feel like I could be that
person that never leaves, that just looks out my window.

(41:40):
Oh, it's pretty today. That's nice.
And and just appreciates from afar.
I know there's nice places out there.
Yeah. I don't know.
Do you think it's like somethingyou're born with or you learn
along the way? I think that people have
different passions. You know, some people need to be
in the water, right? They're going to be either water

(42:04):
skiers or divers or water polo players.
Some people want to be in their house.
Some people can't stand to be intheir house.
I don't think. I think we're all, you know,
unique, like our fingerprints. And you just have to find what
makes you happy. There's some people could talk
for an hour about mascara. That's not me.

(42:27):
I'm impressed and interested andI want them to help me.
But. And I would do 1 segment with
them, but I wouldn't have a mascara podcast.
And so I think that depends, youknow, like I love to go
someplace and the flowers on thetable are beautifully arranged
and I'm not terrible. But again, I'm not going like to

(42:48):
go see the tulips in Amsterdam. I've never done that.
But I don't think I will go every year, right?
So I think it, it's great that there's so many options.
And now with the Internet you can find your people like I only
want to be with the roller skaters or I'm a triathlon or I
how can I fix my orchids? Whatever it is, you know, I got

(43:12):
a new thermostat and it was, it was supposed to go dim after a
few seconds and it didn't. So I got on the Internet and
they helped. Me figure out.
Your thermostat. People.
Yeah, right. Pardon the Interruption, but I
have to tell you about my absolute favorite place on
planet Earth. It's called Canyon Ranch.
Have you ever heard of it? It is a Wellness resort.

(43:33):
And there. Are.
Several locations in the United States.
I have been to the one in the Berkshires of Massachusetts.
I'm telling you about it so thatyou can enjoy 10% off this
spectacular place. Everything from the food, the
staff, the facilities, the workshops, the exercise classes,
the overall vibe. It's first class, so I hope you

(43:55):
will check it out. You can book online or over the
phone using code sideline to save 10%.
And now let's get back to the show now.
I'm sure you could rattle off a dozen answers to this, but what
do you love most about travel? Like like do a hierarchy or, or

(44:16):
a top three? You know, what is it about
travel that just, I don't know, invigorates you and it energizes
you? What do I love most about
travel? I love learning new things.
I love new places, but I go backa lot to the same places.

(44:38):
Wow. What do I love most about
travel? I think what I love the most
about travel is it gives the opportunity for perspective and
that you can look at yourself from a different perspective.
Like a different way that you could try something new on about
yourself. Get out of your normal rhythm

(44:58):
and see what could happen. That's good.
I like that. Again, that's like that's
attainable. That's that's relatable, that
sentiment. I get that.
You know, I was, I got to interview Lisa Jenova about her
book. She's a neuroscientist.
She's written a lot of fiction that has been made into movies,

(45:20):
but she also has a a nonfiction book.
She's talking about your brain and remembering and she talks
about that drive home on a different St.
You can have a travel experiencein your own city.
I made a project one year. I went to a museum.
Every month when I'm out of my home city of Los Angeles and I'm

(45:41):
somewhere else, I go to the museum.
But I had not always made the effort to make that a priority
at home. Yeah.
So you can feel like you're traveling.
You know, I live in Los Angeles.People spend a lot of money to
come here. So I could take advantage of the
beach and the mountains and all the different things that are

(46:01):
amazing here. Yeah, it's so true.
Because I mean, even if you livein a place like I do that
doesn't have necessarily well known landmarks, I live in New
Hampshire. Like, yes, there's Mount
Washington, but aside from that,people might not think of this
as a hotbed of attractions. And yet if I step back like you

(46:23):
just suggested, there is the Frank Lloyd Wright Museum that's
like 20 minutes away from me. And we do have beautiful
seacoast and we do have Maple sugaring things.
Like there's just a lot of interesting aspects that are
nearby in my boring little community.

(46:45):
Just because I don't have, you know, the Golden Gate Bridge or
the Hollywood Walk of Fame or the Saint Louis Arch doesn't
mean I don't have other cool stuff.
That sounds like you have a lot of cool stuff.
I did just make that sound very exciting.
I. Think you did?
Maybe I should take the travel writing course and really
develop this? Maybe.

(47:06):
I mean, I've never been Maple sugaring.
And neither have I. Oh well, it sounds like it's
much closer to you, right? But that's the whole point.
Like if if you're not hanging out at the Getty Museum and I'm
not hanging out Maple sugaring, we both get to explore our our
different places. See.
Yeah, and. Exploring doesn't have to

(47:28):
involve a. Flight, you're right.
You're right. Now you mentioned that there are
places that you do go back to. Yes.
If you could only go to one place ever again, where would
you go? I mean, maybe you could do a hot
and a cold. I don't know.

(47:50):
Well, I think that would be hardfor me to pick only one place
because as much as I love traveling and I love places, I
really need my people. So I guess if I had a big enough
house that they could all come visit me, I might pick Park City
because I love the skiing and I love the hiking, but I also love
scuba diving, so I would probably pick Bonaire.

(48:11):
Yep, see how hot and cold? I love Park City.
Park City is beautiful. It's so fun it.
Is and I'm so excited for them. They have the Olympics again.
Oh really? I'm behind the times?
I didn't know that. Yeah.
So Los Angeles, we have it again.
I was actually in the 19 that. That I knew.
I was in the I was helped with the 1984 Olympics, but we have

(48:34):
the 2028. Yep.
And then Park City had I think was 2002.
And then I think it's, I'm not sure.
I think they have 2034. OK.
All right. Not just around the corner, but
yeah. I mean, they have the
infrastructure, so there you go.I think that's going to be more
and more common to repeat because it is a lot of building

(48:57):
required. Yeah, Yeah.
That's insane. Yeah.
I mean, Olympic Park is beautiful.
Outside of the bobsled experience, it is still a a
very, a very fun place to go. I mean, you get to see people
training it. It is a cool excursion for
anyone who's in that area. Yes.

(49:17):
Worth a trip. Wow, Lisa, this is this is
fantastic. So as we wind down from all of
your personal hurdles and professional accomplishments,
what pieces of advice can you offer midlife women who are

(49:41):
maybe seeking some adventure or something new?
I think the best advice is to bekind to yourself that it's very
easy to label yourself. I know when I was getting
divorced, I felt like a failure and I felt embarrassed and I

(50:03):
didn't want to talk about my story and made it hard to
connect with people. And sometimes I think about, we
talked briefly that I was a teacher.
You were a teacher. I, I taught everythings I taught
preschool up through middle school.
And I think about when a baby islearning to walk and you know,
the baby like climbs up on your leg or on the table and maybe

(50:28):
takes one step and falls down. And do we look at the baby and
say, that was so terrible. You're never going to learn to
walk. And in fact, no, we're like, Oh
my gosh, that's so great. You took one step.
Maybe tomorrow take two steps. It's so exciting.
Someday you'll walk, blah, blah,blah.
And we're so excited. We are not like that for
ourselves. You know, I watch a lot of the

(50:50):
people that come into my art studio and take the one time
class. And it's fascinating to see the
variety of people respond to trying something they either did
once in middle school or never. And I'm, I'm fascinated the
people whose stuff does not looklike anything and they're super
proud because they did it. Or the people who want to give

(51:14):
up or the people are like, hey, I've never done this before.
I'm trying. And and I'm also fascinated.
Who lets the teacher help them? That there's a lot of people
that are like, no way, don't touch my art.
I don't care how it looks. I have to do it myself.
And the people are like, yeah, help me.
I've never done it before. I want to get the feel.

(51:36):
I'm gonna give you an example. When I went to walk with the
polar bears, I was in Winnipeg 1st and I said I love to do art
and they said they would get me a soapstone carving class.
So I've never ever carved anything before.
And so when I went to class, I told the teacher I wanted a
polar bear, and he helped me pick my stone.

(51:59):
Some people know the teacher could not help them.
I picked this, I want this. And he was like, well, it will
be hard to use this stone for the shape you want.
They're like, I don't care. I was like, change my stone.
And then as we were going through the different steps, he
did help me. He was like, can I help you?
I'm like, yes, help me. And mine looks awesome.

(52:24):
It's amazing. I love it.
It's actually I thought you weregoing to say someone gifted that
to you. No, I made it with my teacher
and yeah if you want on my YouTube you can find pictures.
You can see this go from a blockof stone and all the different
steps. Soapstone is so soft, you use

(52:45):
the similar tools to wood carving.
And we had rasps and files and then you don't know what color
it's going to be till the very end and you put it in the water
and you put oil on it. But I, I love to have this on my
desk that I, I didn't have to figure it out all by myself.
I had a teacher. So if people are looking for big

(53:07):
changes, I recommend, you know, find a buddy, ask for help, take
a class, you do coaching. Maybe they want to do coaching
with you that that it's OK to need help and to think about
little baby steps, like a literal baby.
I always say small steps, but I think that we are not very kind

(53:28):
to ourselves. So a way to be kind is to be
patient with yourself. And probably whatever situation
you're in, didn't take one day to get in it.
It's not going to take one day to get out of it.
And you know, if you hate your boss or your relationship's not
working or you're moving to a new city, might take a little

(53:49):
while. So take the drama down, find
help, you know, like if you weregoing to run a marathon, I don't
think you'd sign up and just go.You'd be like, oh, I'm going to
do a 5K. I'm going to find a running
group. But we're not that good about
other things. Like it's OK for someone else to
read your resume or have a headhunter.

(54:11):
You know, this, this was not dayone.
And to not win a telly award on day one.
I have 2.5 million views on YouTube.
I have 2000 or 2500 videos. I have TikTok, I have this, I
have that. I have a book, I have a podcast.
It wasn't day one. You know, when you rattle all
that off, it's like, well, it's about freaking time then.

(54:33):
Well, that. No, I'm just kidding.
I agree, but. You know, finally I was
acknowledged by someone besides my reflection in the mirror.
It's, you know, it's, it dependswhat you want, like you were
asking, you know, where would you, where would be the only
place you go? I'm like, Oh my gosh, I have so

(54:54):
much on my list. I want to explore more.
Like, you know, it's interestingthat in my book, I talk about
going to the travel classics conference.
And because of travel classics is, is a lot of how I ended up
being able to do this TV special.
But from the very beginning, thewoman in charge, when I first

(55:16):
wrote to her, I wrote to her andI said, I don't think I have the
qualifications to come. And I said, do you have a video
conference? Because I'm better at that.
And she said, why don't you justcome and we'll see how it goes.
And I went to the conference, I met with all these editors and I
sold three stories. And I called her to apologize.
And she said, why are you apologizing?

(55:39):
I said, oh, you know, I tried sohard.
Everyone seemed interesting, butI only sold three stories.
She's at least most people barely sell one, so it's hard to
know when it's enough, you know?And I think that I guess another
thing besides being nice to yourself and asking for a buddy
is just ask like, I did not havethe three print clips that I

(56:01):
needed to apply to the conference.
So I said, what can we do here? Or, you know, does video count?
And once when I went to the conference, I made a bunch of
videos because that was just what I do.
And then they were like, can youcome back and do that again?
I was like, oh, you liked it? So I guess be kind to yourself

(56:22):
and and do follow what intriguesyou.
Like I love scuba diving, which led me to Club Med and cruise
ships and traveling and all thisjourney.
I mean, I remember when I met myagent and he was like, can't you
publish something in the LA Times or the New York Times?
I'm like, do you think I'm not trying?
And so I'm like, do you think they could?

(56:43):
Have a great idea? Up on them.
So I, I after the book came out,I was able to publish my first
story in the LA Times, which wasamazing.
But you know what it didn't all happen in the way I wanted or
the way my agent wanted or even finding an agent.
Oh my gosh, there's a lot of. I mean, starting a podcast and,
and it's, I mean, maybe you experienced this on yours as

(57:05):
well, but it's like, OK, how do I get Reese Witherspoon?
How do I get Christina Applegate?
I say I don't interview men, butI always hold a space for Andy
Roddick. OK, well, they're I'm not
hanging up on them. It's not like they've called and
I have denied them a spot, but it doesn't happen on day one

(57:28):
either. You know, and things sometimes
you don't know. I used to write for Thrive
Global and I've used to do thesehonestly what I thought were
kind of wacky mashups. And I did one that was a book
from Deepak Chopra, who I think is amazing, and this other
woman, Jensen Cerro. And after it came out, I sent it

(57:53):
to both their teams. They they had not given me the
book. They had not given me
interviews, but I always send stuff out and you know, Jensen
Cerro's a sensation and very busy and I never heard from
them, right. I did hear from the Deepak
Chopra team. Wow.
And I was like, wait, this isn'twhat I thought was going to

(58:14):
happen. And they said, would you like to
interview him? And I said yes.
And then in the process, the person that messaged me had a
lot of clients. So first he was like, oh, could
you interview Tiffany? I think it was Tiffany Paulson.
She had like the producer of Holiday, which the time was the

(58:35):
number one movie on Netflix. Loved it.
So I interviewed her and then I was like, OK, I interviewed her.
What about Deepak? And he was like, actually his
daughter Malika, her book just came out.
Why don't you interview her? I was like, OK, so I interviewed
her. And then eventually I had this
idea and I pitched him even though he had been pitching me

(58:57):
anyway. So I got the interview with
Deepak, and because in that intervening time, I'd
interviewed his daughter. When he came on my show, I
introduced him as Malika's dad. That's hilarious.
And so we had this really interesting, different, genuine
conversation because mostly it gets interviewed as like,
America's guru, right? I was like, so about Malika,

(59:21):
She's so awesome. Let's talk about you being a
dad. We had a really phenomenal, real
great time. So you don't know, I, I never
expected writing for Thrive Global and making my weird
mashups like I did one with Sliding Doors and this other
book about a guy who writes about his wife had done this New

(59:45):
York Times story. You know, you should marry my
husband. She knew she was terminally ill.
And it was again, kind of a weird mashup.
But you don't know where things are going to go.
And it that's what appealed to me.
And so that's what I wrote and it led to me and Deepak.
Wow, yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm still holding the vision.
I get all those people. Yeah, it's, it's still, no, I, I

(01:00:07):
don't, I don't say it too jokingly.
I'm like, no, no, no. Someday, someday, Christina
Applegate's going to say yes. I think so.
I mean, all the people I've interviewed.
I am so grateful that they're willing to take the time and
that they're interested. And you, you don't know.

(01:00:30):
And let me add, by wishing for Christina Applegate, I mean no
disrespect to you because I reached, I reached out to you.
So it's right. And I appreciate that.
Thank. You so it's like everyone that's
been on this show, whether it's you know, I'll I'll like drop
the names of the the bigger onesjust to I don't know, open a

(01:00:52):
conversation with someone, but it's like I'll tell my friends.
Well, you know, I interviewed myfavorite psychological thriller
author, BA Paris, but I also interviewed a woman talking
about her brother's suicide and how that led her to a healing
journey and living every day like it's the last and, and

(01:01:15):
just, you know, her message. So it's it's like every
conversation has value. Yes, and it's it's I think that
you begin with kindness, especially to yourself and and
think about how can you move forward and you know, all of us
have days where we want to pull the covers over our head and you

(01:01:38):
just need a little bit to lean on your team, whether that's
family or friends or some peoplewrite a gratitude journal
because you just never know. I try to remember for myself
that when someone says no to me that maybe something better is
coming. You, you know, a lot of agents

(01:01:59):
either ignored me or said no to me until I found Chip.
And Chip was a real champion forBravish.
And then when we found Debbie atPost Hill Press, we had prepared
for the meeting and I had, you know, you had a special coaching
session to like, be prepared. And we got on the call and I was

(01:02:20):
like, what is happening here? And afterwards, my agent called
me and he said that wasn't what I thought was going to happen.
I was like, that was not what I always thought was going to
happen because she was just like, I want this book.
Wow, you're. Like, OK, thanks.
Who knows, you know, And then there's so many ways it all
ravels and unravels and and then, you know, at the end of

(01:02:44):
the day you have a polar bear and a telly and you say thank
you. Thank you.
Exactly. Thank you, Lisa.
Be grateful. Well, thank you to you.
So I know you have a ton of links that will be in the show
notes, but just in general, whatdo you want the audience to

(01:03:04):
leave with? I think the most important
thing, you know, we've had a lotof challenging, traumatic times.
It's, you know, I think 641 daysof the hostages that we've been
waiting and praying for. And now the sad, sad news out of
Texas with the floods, that the best and most important thing we

(01:03:26):
can do is, you know, hug the people that we love and, and
tell them that we care about them.
And when we feel challenged to ask, you know, reach out and try
to get help. And I do think that if everyone
could try to be just a little bit more brave, whatever that
means to you, you know, they go to a different restaurant, go to
the movies alone. Tell your boss what you do want

(01:03:49):
with your life or or find a way to do it on your own that you
know that there can we can keep searching for joy.
And for me, travel brings me a lot of joy and sharing that
travel like with my travel classor the book or the TV segments
or the podcasts or the YouTube or the social media.
It is a lot when I say it all atonce, I know, but I hope that

(01:04:14):
everyone finds this space to, you know, be creative in their
own way. It doesn't mean that everyone
has to go to the art studio or write a Symphony or have their
own blog, but you know, maybe they'd like decorate their
dinner table or whatever makes you feel joy.
So good, so good. All right, so everything's going

(01:04:37):
to be in the show notes, the book, the podcast, the links to
see the segment. Yes, anything you want them to
know will be will be there. So everybody check out what
Lisa's doing, get the book, follow her journey and continue
journeys because I'm sure there will be many.

(01:04:59):
And I want to invite you to raise a glass and let us say
cheers to we don't have to figure everything out right now.
We can take small steps and ask for help.
Cheers, cheers. Yes, I am so good.

(01:05:21):
Lisa, thank you so much for everything and I wish you I wish
you continued success. Thank you and I wish everybody
safe journeys and I can't wait to watch Christina Applegate on
your show. From your lips to God's ears.
How amazing was that? I am fairly certain after
everything she has done and appears to be currently doing,

(01:05:45):
Lisa Niver is officially brave. Yep, brave, full stop.
Now let's get into Lisa's notes from the sidelines #1 being
brave and adventurous has to do with perspective, how we think
of ourselves and the judgement we're perceiving #2 small steps.
Lead to big changes. That's just a theme on this show

(01:06:08):
#3 starting over is hard no matter how many times you've
done it #4 like scuba diving. In life, when it comes to
challenges, you need to lean on a buddy #5 You can't do new
things in an old way #6 Acknowledgement is validating,
especially when you do your work, your hard work alone and

(01:06:33):
can't really tell if it's impactful.
It's OK, It's nice to be acknowledged #7 Find what makes
you happy and do it. And with the Internet, it's way
more accessible to find your people #8 travel lets you learn
new things and gives you the opportunity for perspective.

(01:06:54):
You get to try on something unfamiliar #9 you can have a
travel experience without getting on a flight.
You can do it in your own city #10 be kind to yourself.
It's easy to label yourself a failure when you do something
wrong. But seriously, do we call babies
failures when they're learning to walk and continuously fall

(01:07:16):
down? I don't think so.
We need to stop doing that to ourselves.
And #11 when someone says no to you, maybe it means something
better is coming along. Doesn't that sound good?
So thank you, Lisa Niiver for coming here and sharing your
personal story and your really bright, cheerful perspective on
how we can begin to feel brave. Ish.

(01:07:40):
I love that. And everybody go check out her
book and maybe create your own list of things you want to do
and then do them. That's the key.
Do them. So I hope you all enjoyed that
conversation, and if you did, please share it with a friend,
especially someone who might be approaching a milestone birthday

(01:08:00):
or feeling the clock ticking andin need of some encouragement,
some fun. Let this episode be the thing
that reinforces that we are not old, we are not done, and we
just have to decide to do things.
Once again, thank you for listening, thank you for tuning
in. Thank you for liking and sharing

(01:08:22):
and talking. About sideline sisters and if.
You have decided you want to work with a coach to build inner
strength and confidence, then I hope you will choose to work
with me at Gentle Coaching. You will find in the show notes
a link to the coaching application, so just fill it out
and let's get started. I wish you an amazing week.
I'll see you right back here next time.

(01:08:43):
Cheers to you.

All Episodes

86 - Lisa Niver takes small steps toward feeling brave and finding joy

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Stuff You Should Know

The Joe Rogan Experience

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}86 - Lisa Niver takes small steps toward feeling brave and finding joy