November 7, 2025 • 51 mins
We trace a “magical” wedding, the emotions of launching our last child, practical parenting tools that built grit and closeness, and the mindset that steadied us through a tough real estate year and a cancer journey. Faith, planning, and words of blessing thread it all together.
• planning and spoken blessing shaping a joyful wedding
• siblings bonded by early, positive language from parents
• chore cards, quality standards and jars for give-save-spend
• choosing the luxury of a full-time mom amid constraints
• repairing mistakes with apology, self-forgiveness and grace
• accepting “life is difficult” to face a down year
• buyer education, rate trends, inventory and builder incentives
• lake properties, short-term rental math and constraints
• steady support through illness via prayer and honest talk
• worst-case thinking to reduce panic and build peace
Find Carol on Facebook and Instagram, or visit Lake LBJ Property Group. You can also message her on the YouTube channel or any platform where you find this interview
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_04 (00:01):
Welcome to another Sidewalk Conversation.
I'm your host, Pete Van Worden,and I'm so glad that you are
here today.
We have the actually the mostpopular guest we ever have on
the podcast.
Every time this person comes onthe site, we have a great
audience.
So I'm very excited about havingher with me today.
(00:21):
And I want to introduce our timetogether by uh quoting a passage
of scripture, Proverbs 1822,says that he who finds a good
wife finds a treasure and ishighly favored by the Lord.
And every time I run across thatscripture, I find myself
thinking a big, huge amen tothat passage, because uh I have
(00:46):
been married to Carol now for uhgoing on 43 years, and uh we
have known, you know, all theups and downs of married life,
but I would say that as I lookat the overall arc, uh we have
known much happiness and muchjoy.
I had three kids together, we'vedone ministry together, and
we've just flat out enjoyedlife.
(01:06):
And so I just want to say apublic thank you to the Lord and
to my wife for providing such agreat uh experience for me in my
family.
(01:30):
Now, I am excited aboutintroducing to you to her, but
before I do, let me say a thankyou to my sponsor, who also
happens to be Carol Van WardRealty.
So you can find her on Facebookand Instagram, and then as
you're interested in LakeProperty, she also has a website
(01:51):
called Lake LBJ Property Group,and you can find her there.
Uh and then even today, you canuh message her personally
through the YouTube uh channelthat you'll find this on, or any
of the other platforms where youfind this interview.
We always respond to thosemessages.
So if you want to uh reply toher here, you can do that as
(02:13):
well.
So it is with great joy that Iintroduce to you my guest and my
wife, Carol Van Ward.
SPEAKER_02 (02:21):
Hello, everybody.
Yes, the treasure is here.
I'm glad to be here.
SPEAKER_04 (02:28):
I'm so glad.
I know this is not necessarilyyour favorite thing to do, but
every time you do it, you dosuch a great job.
So thanks for coming back.
SPEAKER_02 (02:36):
My pleasure.
SPEAKER_04 (02:38):
Sort of.
All right.
Well, I, you know, we're gonnapop around today because there's
three things that I want to talkto you about.
Um, and they are not necessarilyrelated, but uh they are things
that we've been kind of walkingthrough together over this last
season.
And so I want to touch on eachof them individually.
So thanks again for beingwilling to address these topics.
(02:59):
Uh, we just married off ouryoungest son, Kirin, to a
beautiful young lady, Manny, inCalifornia, and it was an
absolutely, I mean, it's I'verun out of words.
Yes, magical.
I love that word.
Uh, magical experience.
The environment was great, theright people were in the room,
(03:20):
uh, and it was just everythingabout it was perfect.
And so I'm wondering if youwould like to describe from the
mother of the bride, uh motherof the groom's perspective, how
that was for you.
SPEAKER_02 (03:34):
Yes.
Oh, it was it was just anamazing experience.
I I kind of run out ofadjectives to describe, you
know, the wedding of ouryoungest son.
We have three children.
He's the youngest and the lastto get married.
And um, I don't know, it wasjust like so well planned.
(03:55):
Um, there was a funny joke thathappened um two days after the
wedding.
Our son woke up one day.
This is true.
Uh, he he woke up two days afterthe wedding and he said to his
new wife, Manny, you know, I canreally see how planning makes a
successful event.
(04:16):
Now, Curran has not been thebest planner.
He does a lot of things and hedoes a lot of things well, but
probably like in that statement,he's saying he's not the best
planner.
SPEAKER_04 (04:26):
He's much more comfortable than a spontaneous
route.
SPEAKER_02 (04:29):
Spontaneous is true, off the cuff.
And he he does that really well.
Um, but it's true when you plansomething really well, it it
just makes for a magical timelike that.
And so um everything from thevenue to the food choices to um
the decor and and the various uhside tables for people to look
(04:53):
at.
SPEAKER_04 (04:53):
The uh they had a table of remembrance of of the
people who weren't able to bethere.
So your mom, your dad, Opa,Caleb.
They did that.
SPEAKER_02 (05:04):
And then Manny's side of the family too.
And and just like there were somany touches.
Manny took a year to plan thethe wedding, and um you could
really tell.
And then the rehearsal dinnerwas is was really great too.
SPEAKER_04 (05:20):
So which was your beautiful.
Um you you brought you broughtall the beautiful touches to
that experience.
SPEAKER_02 (05:27):
Well, we um I mean, we're together on this, but we
really like to take therehearsal dinner to sort of
honor the couple.
Here they are taking this bigstep in life to legally commit
to one another for the rest oftheir lives.
That's huge.
SPEAKER_03 (05:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (05:46):
And so I feel like um taking time to honor them for
people to step up to themicrophone and say what they
love about the person, whatthey've noticed, about the the
way they live their lives, uh,to do that all before the
wedding ceremony.
It's just special and peoplelove it.
(06:09):
Everybody loves it.
And so we had a really greatspot for that as well.
Um, with an indoor-outdoor, youknow, option.
Uh, people arrived and theycould go outside and and then we
all took a lot of.
SPEAKER_04 (06:22):
Took all the pictures on the sunset.
SPEAKER_02 (06:24):
Yeah, lots of pictures.
And um, yeah, so it was reallythat was nice too.
And uh everything was special.
The the friendship group of ourson and his wife, we really like
them.
And um, Manny's family, wereally like them.
And it's just worth it to tospend extra time nurturing those
(06:49):
relationships and takingadvantage where we could.
Yeah.
In fact, um what we did, which Ifelt a little skeptical about
it, but it was Manny's mother'sidea to share a large Airbnb for
this wedding event.
SPEAKER_04 (07:06):
For the whole weekend together.
SPEAKER_02 (07:07):
Yes.
So it was um the two of us, umManny, uh Manny and Curin, uh
our other uh children and theirspouses, um, and then Manny's
sister, her husband and baby,um, Manny's dad, and then
Manny's um mother and herhusband.
(07:28):
So that was in this big Airbnb.
And and we shared the space andit just made it more special.
And I'm just very, verygrateful.
SPEAKER_04 (07:38):
Yeah, one of the things I loved about the
rehearsal dinner, um, like youand I when we talk offline about
these things, you know, we wehope that people will come
prepared with, you know, nicethings to say and and and have
some thoughtful commentary uh atthe rehearsal dinner.
And I and the reason I lovedoing it there is because you
(07:58):
don't have the pressure of theday of you know, everybody
getting ready and having to dothis and that on the wedding
day.
So the night before, to be ableto have that time of blessing,
and I'm still moved by thespeeches that were given.
Everybody put together some verythoughtful things.
And uh, and like you said, theywere a blessing to the couple.
(08:20):
And and I'm a big believer inthe power of words, you know,
the power of blessing.
And to, you know, just see Mannyand Curran's face as they
received these words.
We had them nicely set up infront, and people kind of spoke
to them and the group.
Uh, it was such a memorableevening.
And then, of course, the samething about the wedding and the
(08:40):
next day where everything wasjust so well done.
Uh, did you have a favorite partin the wedding?
SPEAKER_02 (08:46):
Oh gosh.
Um, I I liked so many things.
It's hard to pick pick onething, but of course, we had the
mother-son dance and so my own,you know, private dance with
curren.
And then also walking out to thewhere the wedding was being
(09:08):
held.
And so um everybody seated intheir seats and something.
SPEAKER_04 (09:14):
You're coming in.
SPEAKER_02 (09:15):
Something hit me while we were walking in, and I
I was about to bust out intears.
I had to totally contain sobs.
I'm walking with you, and I lookover, and you had already I saw
the the lip quivering and thetanky out, and I was like, oh, I
(09:37):
was afraid I would have likeweird contortions on my face as
I was trying to withhold tearsand crying.
Um, tears did come, of course.
And then there was Kern standingup there, you know, waiting.
And um makes me teary even now.
But um, you know, his chinquivering at the at the
(10:01):
significance of it all.
SPEAKER_03 (10:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (10:03):
Um you know, our there's weddings all the time, I
know, and and parents that arelistening, you've had your own,
and they were very special.
But I think it's your childrenit um make these life decisions.
And a a life partner is the mostsignificant, you know, one of
the most significant choicesthey make.
(10:27):
Um and so with our our newdaughter-in-law Manny, her real
name is Manda, um, we met herwhen Curran was in college, you
know, over 10 years ago.
And Curran had a good friendgroup at University of Missouri,
and we would invite them overevery semester for like barbecue
or pizza or lasagna.
(10:47):
And um, Manny happened to be atone of those that I re remember
specifically, where we had areally nice conversation for
Yeah, she hung out after, talkedto us.
Yeah.
And so she was the only girlthat I ever asked Curran about.
I really liked her.
(11:07):
And for three years I askedabout Manny, and she was always
dating somebody else.
But then everybody in the friendgroup started getting married.
And um, Curran and Manny wouldgo to these weddings and they
would sit together, see eachother, talk to each other, and
they, you know, eventuallydecided to start dating.
(11:28):
And and it just feels so right,you know, it feels like a god
kiss that we would um meet herin our own home and have this
really just a really niceconversation with with this
girl.
Um, so many parents don't knowtheir their the person that
their child chooses until youknow after they're engaged,
(11:51):
maybe even.
SPEAKER_03 (11:52):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (11:53):
And so we had this little god kiss that we got to
meet her early on and feel likeyou liked her immediately.
Yeah, yeah.
So we love Manny.
SPEAKER_04 (12:03):
Yeah, I it one of my favorite parts of the wedding,
and like you said, there are somany favorite parts, but I love
the fact that they also includedMilo.
The dog.
Yeah, Milo's their uh a littlecorgie and uh and their baby,
really.
And they were thinking, but likehow can we include the dog?
(12:24):
And so they decided they weregoing to put the the rings in a
box and attach it to the collar.
And then at the right point inthe wedding, when I asked the
question, do we have rings tocommemorate the commitments
being made today?
They said, We do.
And then at that time, the twouh brothers of of Manny kind of
(12:47):
brought the dog out at the endof the aisle and then let him
go.
SPEAKER_02 (12:51):
And he was supposed to go with two valuable rings on
his collar.
SPEAKER_04 (12:57):
And so he like he looks at them and then he starts
going in between some of theaisles, and then finally Kern
says, treat, treat.
And that was apparently themagic word.
So he came came forward, andjust that whole moment I thought
was really fun.
SPEAKER_02 (13:12):
Yeah.
Milo is a fun dog.
SPEAKER_04 (13:16):
He was he was everywhere, he was on napkins,
he was on the uh what do youcall those, uh oh, the cozy
coozie or whatever.
Yeah, yeah.
So he was everywhere.
Um, so now that was our thirdson uh getting married.
And I'm you know, I found myselfbeing a little reflective after
the ceremony, like, okay, ourkids are now all officially
(13:36):
launched, they have their ownfamilies, and I'm just curious,
like from the mom's perspective,um like how is that for you?
Because now you you like it'salmost as if you can say, like,
your job is done.
It's not like totally donebecause they'll always need
their mom, but like, how hasthat trans transition been for
you?
SPEAKER_02 (13:56):
Oh, well, I you know, I'm still trying to trying
to find words to express myfeelings.
I'm trying to learn what myfeelings are.
But, you know, Curran was um thethird and he was the cuddliest
of the children.
Um that's long gone because he's31.
(14:18):
So um, you know, I said goodbyeto that a long time ago.
But there was this odd sensethat I had that our our youngest
was getting married, the last ofour children.
And why is that significant?
Why do I suddenly feelsomething?
He's been independent for a longtime.
SPEAKER_03 (14:37):
Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02 (14:37):
And um, I'm still trying to figure out what that
is.
We don't have grandchildren, andso there's there's not like that
next step really on the horizon,although I hope and trust that
that will be.
SPEAKER_04 (14:52):
We keep hinting.
SPEAKER_02 (14:53):
Yeah.
Um, I mean, not too much though.
Right, right, right.
So um, yeah, my I I'm I'm juststill wondering about my
feelings.
SPEAKER_04 (15:07):
Yeah, I and I do think that um I've heard you
know, psychologists and youknow, family therapists talk
about this, that it is adifferent experience for the mom
than it is for the dad.
That generally the mom, and Idon't want to be like too
stereotypical, but the momgenerally is like the nurturer,
the one who wants to create thenest in the home, and the
(15:27):
father's the one who's trying tohelp you know shoot them out and
get them going and shoot theminto the world.
And so I do think there, youknow, there's an adjustment of
trying to figure out like, okay,so I'm no longer the primary
nurturer.
They have other people now, allof our kids have other people in
their life who are functioningin that role.
So it's gotta be a little bit oflike, okay, so what it what does
(15:51):
that mean for me as the mom?
SPEAKER_02 (15:54):
Yeah, exactly.
If anybody has a bookrecommendation, let me know what
it is because uh I would like tokind of process that a little
more deeply and understandmyself so that I can enter the
season of being a grandparentbetter because I've processed
that.
And um, so if there's a book outthere, put it in the notes and
(16:17):
I'll or put it, you know, in thecomments and I'll read that.
SPEAKER_04 (16:22):
Yeah, and I think we're actually like in that
in-between time because it'slike you said, we don't we're
not grandparents yet, but we'reno longer parents in the you
know the most traditional sense.
So we're in this in-between timeof trying to sort out what it
means to be this in this place.
Yeah.
Um well let let me um transitiona little bit to like reflecting
(16:42):
on your overall motherhoodjourney, because you know,
you're you're kind of in thatseason where you're looking back
at the things you've done.
And there may be people who arelistening who are on the front
end of the journey.
And when you think about thethings that were most important
uh for you to do as a mom tolaunch these three kids, and and
(17:02):
you know, we have every reasonto feel so good about who they
are, and each of them are verydifferent, but they've all kind
of marked out their territoryand are making a difference in
the world for good.
And so I think people would wantto know, like, well, how did you
how did you create such uhindependent and and uh
well-adjusted kids?
(17:24):
Obviously, they made their ownchoices, and there was a lot of
other people who helped investin them, coaches, youth pastors,
children's pastors.
But from the mom's perspective,what was it that you like look
back on and say, I'm I'm really,I really think I got that that
part right?
SPEAKER_02 (17:41):
Yeah.
Um, uh, first of all, I talkedwhen I was pregnant with a
sibling, I would talk to, youknow, our firstborn Peter about
his baby sister that's sooncoming.
And I would tell him thingslike, You're gonna love her so
(18:03):
much.
She's so special.
You're gonna be a great bigbrother.
You're gonna teach her things.
And I would really nurture hisposition as the older brother
and how special the relationshipwas going to be.
I never spoke a negative wordbecause I wanted to him to get
(18:23):
the idea that wow, I, you know,like as a two-year-old, he has
this great thing coming.
SPEAKER_03 (18:31):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (18:32):
And and then likewise, when we were pregnant
with Curran, um, I got to speakto both of them.
And of course, Peter was six atthat point.
So he was really understandinghis role as a big brother and
Mallory as well as a big sister.
So I really feel like thoseconversations, and it wasn't
(18:52):
just during the pregnancy, butyou know, all through the little
things that happen throughout aday that these older siblings
get to be a big brother, a bigsister.
They get to to have this specialsibling.
And um, and I really feel likethat nurtured the relationships
(19:14):
that they they still have today.
Um, who knows, it could be justtheir personality, but I like to
think that the seeds you plantwhen they're little uh grow
into, you know, um biggerdecisions along the way.
You know, they they have thisnotion that this can be a really
good relationship.
Right.
(19:35):
My mom told me this, so I'mgoing to start acting like that.
And, you know, they never hadlike any option, at least coming
from us, that this is a badrelationship and you're a bad
brother or you're a bad sister.
SPEAKER_04 (19:51):
Like, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (19:52):
Yeah, like we all we work together and they have
great relationships.
I really think that what you sayis important.
So that would maybe be the firstthing.
The second thing, um we we uh umtried not to just hand them
things.
Of course, we loved I lovedgiving them presents and
(20:15):
surprises, but we also we wereon a very tight budget as a
family, and we the the kidssomehow I learned early that um
we through Dave Ramsey that thekids um shouldn't receive an
allowance.
That's just money given to themfor no reason.
(20:37):
But they could earn money bydoing little tasks and chores.
And I really liked that conceptthat they're not just getting
free money and I wasn't reallyfully aware of all of you know
what I was doing at the time,but um, I ended up uh creating
chore cards.
So I took file cards that hadvarious chores on there and
(21:01):
everything from uh I don't know,cleaning the sink, uh raking the
leaves, cleaning the toilet, umvacuuming, yes, like any
anything that people can doaround the house.
Of course, cleaning their room,they I wouldn't pay them for
that.
(21:22):
That's just their territory, andit's a requirement in our house
to keep it somewhat orderly.
You know, I was not a Nazi onthat, but you know, like if if
they were having a friend overto spend the night, their room
needed to start out somewhatorderly.
So that was not, you know, theywere not paid to to do that.
(21:42):
But any I had like 20 choresthat I had picked out, and you
know, I would have to make surethey did the chore so it was
like a real hassle sometimes.
And it didn't pay an exorbitantamount of money.
Um, Mallory really liked to uhthe highest paid chore was
(22:02):
cleaning the toilet.
So Mallory would always choosethat, but the quality of her
work was never top-notch.
SPEAKER_04 (22:10):
So maybe she's not watching.
SPEAKER_02 (22:14):
She knows that I I felt that way.
So I would send her back um, youknow, sometimes two times to get
the job right.
So three attempts at cleaningthe toilet if she wanted to get
paid, which I think back thenwas a a dollar.
And then, you know, uh we had away for them to um uh through
(22:36):
envelopes or however we did it,uh maybe jars.
Um, but three ways to to um uhhave a little jar for tithing, a
little jar for saving, and that,you know, we would talk about
what the saving would be for,and then another jar for
spending.
So um, you know, toys orwhatever.
SPEAKER_04 (22:57):
10 1080 plan.
Yeah, started.
SPEAKER_02 (22:59):
We started early.
And, you know, at some pointthose chores did not pay enough,
and they would get little jobs.
Um, Peter's first job was uh asa paperboy um when the newspaper
was still tossed onto sidewalks.
Um, Mallory would feed theneighbors cats and she'd get
(23:20):
paid for that.
And she was very generous withMallory.
And Kern also was a paperboy,and you know, like they they
just had these little jobs tostart around the neighborhood.
So I feel that um not handingthem, you know, money just
because um and we probably didthat too.
SPEAKER_04 (23:40):
I I feel like well we gave them, I think, if I
remember right, like certainallowances for clothes and
things.
Later on, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (23:48):
Later when they were older, we did that.
Um and if we were going onvacation, we would also give
them a little amount of moneybecause you know they're
spending money, yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (23:59):
But I think, you know, looking at them now, I
think that really gave them areal value for two things to you
know, to be conscientious ofmoney, like budgeting, but also
work ethic.
Like they are all three justsuper hard workers.
I mean this, they theyunderstand that like there's a
payoff between w working hardand and then the the experience
(24:21):
of of having some uh money inthe pocket.
SPEAKER_02 (24:24):
Yeah.
Okay, I I did have one morething to share about mothering.
Um so motherhood, parenthood isfraught with mistakes and you
know bad choices or uh a temperor um for me, one of my issues
(24:47):
was guilt over something I didwrong, you know.
Um you know, there's any numberof things I I won't recall them
here, but um yeah, I just I sI'm one of those that holds on
to like guilty feelings.
And so I think um I've dealtwith guilt and you know, knowing
(25:15):
that this is sort of part of whoI am to hold on to stuff for a
while.
Um but lately I've I've decidedthat you what I need to do is go
back to that memory of what I Idid not like about what I did
and to replay that.
(25:37):
And um I've asked God forforgiveness for certain things,
and I think that's you know,probably the first thing you
need to do.
But the second thing is toreally be intentional about
forgiving yourself.
SPEAKER_04 (25:49):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (25:50):
So um and then if it's you know needed to ask your
child's forgiveness, um, youknow, the probably they don't
remember depending on the age,but um, you know, to have a
conversation for clarificationand you know, we're all just
human and we're nobody'sperfect, nobody does parenthood
(26:14):
a hundred percent correct.
Um, if there are parents outthere like that, I don't I don't
want to meet you and you can gowrite a book.
So um, but I'm not one of them.
And um I I sure loved theparenting journey.
I especially loved it after theygrew up.
SPEAKER_04 (26:34):
And I mean, I love every stage, but yeah, I well,
and I think one of the thingsthat I I look back at um that
I'm super grateful for, both interms of like a strategic family
decision, but really it's reallylike what you decided to give
yourself to was that we got thisum advice when we were early in
(26:55):
our marriage from one of ourmentors, and that is that every
family, every couple decideswhat luxuries they're going to
give their children.
And they used the phrase, we aregoing to give our children the
luxury of a full-time mom.
And that really resonated withus.
I I remember talking about thatwith you, and like, how do you
feel about that being afull-time mom?
(27:16):
And you know, you had somecareer aspirations that you were
able to uh fall into and andpursue later in life, but we did
decide that that was the luxurywe were going to uh give to our
kids was a full-time mom.
And and early in our marriageand early in parenthood, that
was that was pretty sacrificial.
There were a lot of financial uhchallenges that we faced, but I
(27:39):
have no regrets about that thatdecision that uh you were
willing to take on that mantleand and and parent our children
as a full-time mom and the andthe gift that that they've
received in that, the luxurythey have in that, I think is
paid off many, many times over.
And uh so I want to commend youagain for that for that
(28:00):
decision.
I think that was a really goodcall.
SPEAKER_01 (28:02):
Well, I want to ask you what do you feel like you
did good as a dad?
SPEAKER_04 (28:09):
Well, I I was really resonating with your last part
of like because I remembered,you know, that one of the
challenges I felt uh when ourkids were teenagers, I I had to
have a a season with them, eachof them, uh, where I apologized
for uh approaching my work aslike too important, and and that
(28:32):
there were many things I missedwith our kids because I had
prioritized work and ministry.
And uh and they were allgracious, you know.
They kept saying, Well, you're agood dad, you're a good dad.
Um, but I still feel someremorse about the way in which I
did not make those decisions aswell as I could have.
Um, but I do think, you know,and this is something I've I've
(28:55):
heard you say, and it's it'skind of something I think we did
well.
I think through the thick andthe thin, we had our challenges
with each of our kids forvarious reasons, and uh we were
determined to love themregardless.
So to walk with them through thedifficulties um and the
challenges and and and and staylike committed to their success.
(29:18):
And I think we did that well.
And um I'm proud of uh the factthat we were we were able to
kind of see them through theirdifficult seasons and and and
now we're on the other side ofthat where they're just an
absolute delight.
And each and each of them, we weenjoy their company.
I think they enjoy our company,and uh it's like nothing could
(29:40):
be better than that.
SPEAKER_02 (29:42):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_04 (29:45):
All right.
Well, um let me pivot to yourprofessional life.
Um you now are uh have been forsix years uh in the real estate
world, and that is a uh It hasbeen, you know, some really good
times and then there have beensome really hard times.
And, you know, whenever you arebasically a full commission uh
(30:10):
job, when when things are good,it can be nice, but when it's
not, it's uh it's hard.
And this has been a particularlychallenging year in terms of
real estate for all kinds ofreasons.
And I'm just curious how youlike navigate the ups and downs
of a role like this, because I'mguessing that there are people
(30:30):
who are watching who findthemselves maybe not in the real
estate world, but in other kindsof roles where they have that
kind of experience.
And I'm just like maybe you canshare some of the wisdom, some
of the lessons that you've kindof gleaned in this season.
SPEAKER_02 (30:45):
Yeah.
Well uh in my real estatecareer, every year has been
better than the last, which I'mvery grateful for, um, until
this year.
And this year was especiallychallenging.
It's been the hardest year,quite frankly.
And um so it's been, you know,like a challenge for me to
(31:09):
figure out what do I do withthis?
And it was actually yesterdaywhere we were in a conversation
with some people, and we weretalking about the quote by M.
SPEAKER_04 (31:21):
Scott Peck, which is once you realize that life is
difficult, it's no longer so.
SPEAKER_02 (31:29):
No, that's not the the start of the book.
What's the first line of thebook?
SPEAKER_04 (31:32):
Life is difficult.
SPEAKER_02 (31:33):
Life is difficult.
Life is difficult, and for somereason, I think maybe because
every year was better than thethe last, that it just felt so
wrong that I would have a badyear, like in every way.
And I I uh spent lots of timeruminating over this and
(31:55):
wondering, you know, what am Idoing wrong?
And blah blah blah.
Anyway, life is difficult andthere are seasons where it's
just harder than others, and youjust um I I think in recognizing
that it makes the hard times alittle easier.
So um and and easier to hope forthe good things ahead.
(32:20):
So, you know, just because thefirst 10 months of this year
were hard doesn't mean that eventhe last two months will be
hard.
They may be fantastic, um, orthat next year is gonna be hard.
Um, but to somehow it maybecreates a little extra patience
for those things.
(32:41):
And then, you know, that's onething that was just yesterday
that I was thinking about that.
But really, I think that we havean opportunity to bring our
concerns to the Lord who givesus wisdom.
It says when we ask for wisdom,he will always give it to us.
And I feel like even though it'sbeen a hard year, I've been
(33:02):
given wisdom on you know, whatcan I do to move forward?
And so there's like faith is agreat guide and comfort all at
the same time.
SPEAKER_04 (33:14):
Amen.
Yeah, yeah.
And so when you're um thinkingabout your future and what what
this looks like for you, how howare you thinking about it?
And what is what gives youoptimism?
Because I think there's alsopeople who, um and part of the
reason why I think real estateis a little bit more challenging
right now is there's a lot ofhesitation around you know
(33:37):
what's happening in the markets,the interest rates and um
inventory and all those things.
So like what are some thingsthat you're telling yourself
that may also be helpful forthose who are similarly
distressed about the the wholeworld of real estate right now?
SPEAKER_02 (33:56):
Yeah, well, um I'm telling myself that the future
is bright.
Um I'm telling myself that theinterest rates have come down a
whole percent since last year.
And there are lenders out therewho give really great education.
(34:16):
So I partner, or not partner,but I have relationships with
really great lenders who love toeducate.
And so I I tell my, you know,people who ask me things, I say,
just write down your questionsor I can give you questions to
ask the lender.
SPEAKER_03 (34:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (34:34):
Because that's really their job is to to help
you learn about this.
I mean, how often do you buy ahouse?
Well, a lot of people arefirst-time buyers, but even if
they're a second-time buyer,they probably lived in that
house for 10 years and haven'tthought about getting a mortgage
for 10 years.
So they have to be re-educatedand lenders change, yeah.
(34:57):
Yeah, lenders um do a great jobof that and they're used to
doing that.
They expect it actually.
So um I I also um, you know,people ask me, is this a good
time to buy?
And I say, no, it's a great timeto buy.
(35:18):
And I can say that right nowbecause um interest rates are
expected to continue, thedownward trend.
Um, again, it's a it's a low, a1% lower rate from a year ago.
There's wonderful loan programsout there for all kinds of
situations.
Um, and some there's a productjust for you.
(35:41):
Um, and you know, if there'ssomebody with a low credit
score, there's programs just foryou.
Um, but it's a great time too,because if interest rates do go
lower, you can lower your rate.
There's programs out there justfor you.
SPEAKER_04 (35:57):
Yeah.
And I and one of the things I'veheard you say too is that like
given the trend, you know, rightnow there's uh inventory is
rich, like there's a lot ofinventory, and so you have your
pick and you can stillnegotiate.
But if it continues to go down,then all of a sudden the
competition uh for the inventorygoes up and you may not have as
(36:18):
many choices.
So this is actually a prettygood time given what's
available.
Um I've also heard you talk toclients uh who are looking at
new construction and and peopleum builders are offering all
kinds of incentives.
SPEAKER_02 (36:33):
It's just uh Yeah.
Builders offer great loan ratesthrough their um through their
lenders.
Ums their lenders is always iffybecause they're not great
communicators, they're not likeservice-oriented, but they do
have better rates.
So that's always an option.
Um, there's situations where umpeople who bought during COVID
(37:00):
and paid a higher price just toget into the house with that,
you know, two and a half percentmortgage rate.
They they did pay a higherprice.
And so some people are having ahard time getting out of those
houses.
And um, that's just anunfortunate situation.
Every everything is unique.
(37:20):
Um and then yeah, there's justlike it's there's so many
options out there.
It's it's so fun to talk about.
I never get tired of talkingabout it.
SPEAKER_04 (37:31):
Yeah.
So uh you also have someproperties at the lake.
We talked a little bit aboutthat at the intro.
Um, so you there are evenopportunities down, like if you
want a lakefront property, theycan talk to Carol Van Moore.
SPEAKER_02 (37:44):
Yeah.
So I work with our friend JakePanko.
Um we have lake lbjpropertygroup.com and have a
website there with uh an IDX umsearch engine.
So you could search for anythingreally um on there.
But we do together we work, youknow, to um find properties for
(38:06):
people who want to buy there.
Um if you have a 1031 exchangewhere you need to buy a property
real quick due to timeconstraints.
Um, you know, you can buy a lakeproperty where the mortgage is
covered through Airbnb rents.
SPEAKER_04 (38:25):
Oh man, I was so surprised.
Like we were looking at a like amultimillion dollar home.
SPEAKER_00 (38:30):
Yep.
SPEAKER_04 (38:30):
And then they gave their rental record of like what
they're getting as incomethrough Airbnb and short-term
rentals.
And it was like almost like amatch.
SPEAKER_02 (38:40):
This is like it it was yeah, it was a match to,
okay, so this is a$3.4 millionhome in an area that
accommodates short-term rentals.
The builder builds these homesand he has a lot of experience
building spec homes that aregigantic that are in short-term
(39:05):
rental areas that allow forthat.
And so he, as soon as the houseis built, he furnishes it and he
immediately begins renting itout on Airbnb.
That's crazy.
And so he has, you know, hardfacts that this kind of house
will earn 200 to 250K everyyear, uh, which then can pay for
(39:28):
the mortgage.
Yeah.
So the, you know, the problemwith a$3.4 million is getting a
down payment.
That's a little bit hard to do.
SPEAKER_04 (39:38):
But still, I mean, it just it makes makes what
seemed impossible at one pointto like, oh, maybe.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (39:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (39:46):
All right.
My last pivot.
I want to talk a little bitabout um, you know, we we have
been very fortunate over thelast uh now 18 months where I've
been cancer free.
Uh, but there was a season uhfor three or four years where it
was uh like every couple ofmonths we were doing something
else and had to deal withanother thing.
(40:08):
And uh and you had to serve inthat support role, and that was
not easy.
Uh and now this uh semester, uhI'm offering this course on uh
resilience, building yourresilience against cancer, and
that's for cancer warriors andthe support team.
And you decided to uh join mefor that uh for that class, and
(40:29):
I I very much appreciated youruh uh your involvement and your
uh your contributions.
Um and so I'm just curious, nowthat we're a little bit you know
away from that experience, uhwhat are what are some of the
things that you learned?
Uh what are the some of thethings that you might share for
people who find themselves in asimilar position, not
(40:51):
necessarily with cancer, butmaybe supporting a person who's
really going through a hardseason uh with in terms of a
health challenge.
What are some of the things youwould say share?
SPEAKER_02 (41:02):
Oh gosh, that's that's kind of a hard question
to answer because I'm not sureI'm all that intentional about
how I approach that.
SPEAKER_04 (41:15):
Um Well, it felt intentional.
SPEAKER_02 (41:18):
Okay.
Well, you know, I think that thefirst response that I had for
you in your situation was umcompassion.
Um I wouldn't want to be in yourshoes.
I can't imagine uh what thatmust feel like to hear that you
(41:39):
have the C word and um what thatwould mean.
I'm I think my my mind wouldjust be so busy with all the
what ifs and you know doingresearch on it and things like
that.
So anyway, compassion and umthere is a place that you can
exert the energy of compassion,and that is in prayer for your
(42:04):
partner.
So I prayed a lot for you and umasked God to heal you uh and
that you would be free and thatwe would have wisdom in how to
approach it.
And so, of course, that's notone and done, that's all you
know, constant.
Um uh and um the other way thatI knew you would appreciate um
(42:30):
support is by talking andtalking and talking about it.
So as much as you wanted to talkabout what cancer means and an
approach to the cancer,especially because we took this
this natural approach at first,100% natural, no no chemo,
(42:52):
radiation or surgery.
That was the approach we decidedit required a lot of
conversation.
And um, you know, what do we howdo we approach this with our
children?
Yeah, yeah.
Um what about our finances?
What about, you know, if itdoesn't work?
And so as much as you wanted totalk about it, I wanted to be
(43:15):
there to do that and to kind ofdraw you out as much as you
would.
I I know some people don't liketo talk about health issues.
So I I don't know what to say tosomething like that.
You were wanting to talk aboutit, yeah, and um you were great
about including me on anyprocessing that you were doing
(43:37):
that I I didn't even know youwere thinking about.
SPEAKER_03 (43:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (43:40):
Uh so I really grateful for for that.
And I I don't know if I have a agood word for people who whose
spouses don't want to talk aboutit, except to say that um to
tell them that you're there tobe a support and that discuss,
(44:00):
you know, you feel thatdiscussing things is is always
the best approach so that we,you know, move t together toward
you know forward.
This is a a we issue, not just ayou issue.
SPEAKER_03 (44:15):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_02 (44:16):
And if we can move through the process of health
decisions together, it's justpart of what marriage is about.
And you you make decisionstogether about parenting and
about money, but also healthdecisions ought to be um
(44:36):
together.
SPEAKER_03 (44:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (44:38):
And so just and even on that note, um, this was
happening to your body and youhad opinions about an approach
to take, and I wanted to hearthem.
But ultimately, those choicesare up to you.
We talked about them and we werewe were in alignment, but I also
(44:58):
felt like if you wanted to go adifferent direction, I had to
respect that and support you init, and not not like not support
you in a decision that I didn'tlike, but to um go with you and
and uh be there in that decisionthat you made.
SPEAKER_04 (45:19):
Yeah.
And I I respected that andappreciated it.
In fact, one of the things I Idon't know if I've ever told you
this, but um one of the things Ireally appreciated about the way
that we walk through thistogether was that you were
always um like even keeled.
Like if you were freaking out uhinside, I never I never knew it.
SPEAKER_02 (45:44):
Like did you want me to freak out?
SPEAKER_04 (45:46):
No, no, I don't know.
I was I was saying that Iappreciated your steadiness
through it.
Like I think sometimes andbecause I've now been working
with a lot of people who havecancer or have you know a
partner who has cancer, I cantell that there is like an
anxiety around this other personthat affects the the person
(46:12):
who's who has cancer.
Like when they're reallyanxious, this that creates a
another level of anxiety for theperson who's wrestling with the
disease.
And um and I think you were veryconscientious of saying, like,
I'm not going to add to theburden.
And that's not to say that thereweren't times where you said,
like, I'm scared.
(46:32):
This, you know, like when wewent up to Mayo and we had all
those surgeries, that was thatwas a scary time.
And and you were willing to saythat, so it wasn't like you were
being uh Pollyanish.
But uh uh overall, I would justsay that your your ability to
process yourself in order tohave some stability and
steadiness for me was superhelpful.
(46:55):
It was such a gift.
SPEAKER_02 (46:56):
I think it's helpful to go to the worst case scenario
for somebody in my position.
So to really grapple with that.
So, like you were going intosurgery, and I had to say, okay,
what if he doesn't make itthrough surgery?
Now, you know, it's the doctorwas very reassuring that that
(47:17):
wouldn't happen.
But you know, we all wonder, andum, you hear about weird
situations where somebody had areaction that the um doctors
didn't expect and suddenlythey're gone.
Um this this happened to mysister just recently.
SPEAKER_03 (47:35):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (47:36):
Um so I think to go to the worst case scenario and
ask yourself a couple ofquestions like if Pete leaves me
and he transitions to heaven,will I be okay?
Will I be okay uh emotionally,spiritually, uh financially,
(47:59):
relationally, all the you know,places of will I be okay?
And to wrestle with that, um Ithink the answer for everybody
can be yes, you can be okay.
Now you know, I knew that likelike everybody dies, okay?
(48:24):
But like if you were to leaveme, I know I'll be lonely and
you you fill my world.
You're my treasure.
Um, we're each other's treasure.
There you go.
Anyway, I I know that will bethe case, but I also know that I
can take steps to to not belonely, and I can I can do a
(48:44):
bunch of things to fill my timeand my relational network, and I
would miss you, yes, but uh Iwill be okay.
And so uh and I have God to cryout to, you know, and um tools
in my tool tool belt of life tomanage all that stuff.
(49:07):
So I feel like that is a keything to be to remaining even
keeled.
SPEAKER_04 (49:14):
Yeah, because if you go to the worst-case scenario
and you say, okay, I'll I won'tlike that, it'll be really hard,
but I can't I can I can do it.
I like by God's grace, I can doit.
Then no matter what happens, youfeel like, okay, well, I've I've
answered the hardest question.
You know, and so uh yeah, we cango there.
(49:35):
All right.
Well, I have thoroughly enjoyedour conversation again.
And I think uh your your uhresponses and your answers have
been really uh yeah, just thereyou I love it.
SPEAKER_02 (49:50):
Oh well, thank you for having me.
Probably everybody watchingthinks they do this every day.
They just sit in two chairsfacing one another.
And it's true we sometimes dothat, especially like if like
here we just had a wedding, sositting together and talking
through stuff is just apleasure.
SPEAKER_04 (50:09):
And um In fact, that's that's how I knew that
you were the right person forme.
SPEAKER_02 (50:17):
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (50:18):
All the way back in the prayer garden at ORU when we
had conversations about allkinds of everything.
We talked about everything.
Like we talked about theology,we talked about like our
experiences in life, and wetalked about like fun stuff, we
took a motorcycle ride.
I mean, like it was like we hadall the we covered all the gaps.
Yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (50:38):
In fact, we have this car ride coming up, and
it's a long one.
And I'm looking forward to it.
It's gonna be nice to betogether and talk about stuff.
SPEAKER_04 (50:47):
Yeah, I love it.
Well, thank you for talkingabout it here with my friends.
SPEAKER_02 (50:52):
You're welcome.
SPEAKER_04 (50:53):
And so thank you for joining us for another sidewalk
conversation.
So glad that you are here, anduh, we hope you join us next
time for another good sidewalkconversation.
Welcome to another Sidewalk Conversation.
I'm your host, Pete Van Worden,and I'm so glad that you are
here today.
We have the actually the mostpopular guest we ever have on
the podcast.
Every time this person comes onthe site, we have a great
audience.
So I'm very excited about havingher with me today.
(00:21):
And I want to introduce our timetogether by uh quoting a passage
of scripture, Proverbs 1822,says that he who finds a good
wife finds a treasure and ishighly favored by the Lord.
And every time I run across thatscripture, I find myself
thinking a big, huge amen tothat passage, because uh I have
(00:46):
been married to Carol now for uhgoing on 43 years, and uh we
have known, you know, all theups and downs of married life,
but I would say that as I lookat the overall arc, uh we have
known much happiness and muchjoy.
I had three kids together, we'vedone ministry together, and
we've just flat out enjoyedlife.
(01:06):
And so I just want to say apublic thank you to the Lord and
to my wife for providing such agreat uh experience for me in my
family.
(01:30):
Now, I am excited aboutintroducing to you to her, but
before I do, let me say a thankyou to my sponsor, who also
happens to be Carol Van WardRealty.
So you can find her on Facebookand Instagram, and then as
you're interested in LakeProperty, she also has a website
(01:51):
called Lake LBJ Property Group,and you can find her there.
Uh and then even today, you canuh message her personally
through the YouTube uh channelthat you'll find this on, or any
of the other platforms where youfind this interview.
We always respond to thosemessages.
So if you want to uh reply toher here, you can do that as
(02:13):
well.
So it is with great joy that Iintroduce to you my guest and my
wife, Carol Van Ward.
SPEAKER_02 (02:21):
Hello, everybody.
Yes, the treasure is here.
I'm glad to be here.
SPEAKER_04 (02:28):
I'm so glad.
I know this is not necessarilyyour favorite thing to do, but
every time you do it, you dosuch a great job.
So thanks for coming back.
SPEAKER_02 (02:36):
My pleasure.
SPEAKER_04 (02:38):
Sort of.
All right.
Well, I, you know, we're gonnapop around today because there's
three things that I want to talkto you about.
Um, and they are not necessarilyrelated, but uh they are things
that we've been kind of walkingthrough together over this last
season.
And so I want to touch on eachof them individually.
So thanks again for beingwilling to address these topics.
(02:59):
Uh, we just married off ouryoungest son, Kirin, to a
beautiful young lady, Manny, inCalifornia, and it was an
absolutely, I mean, it's I'verun out of words.
Yes, magical.
I love that word.
Uh, magical experience.
The environment was great, theright people were in the room,
(03:20):
uh, and it was just everythingabout it was perfect.
And so I'm wondering if youwould like to describe from the
mother of the bride, uh motherof the groom's perspective, how
that was for you.
SPEAKER_02 (03:34):
Yes.
Oh, it was it was just anamazing experience.
I I kind of run out ofadjectives to describe, you
know, the wedding of ouryoungest son.
We have three children.
He's the youngest and the lastto get married.
And um, I don't know, it wasjust like so well planned.
(03:55):
Um, there was a funny joke thathappened um two days after the
wedding.
Our son woke up one day.
This is true.
Uh, he he woke up two days afterthe wedding and he said to his
new wife, Manny, you know, I canreally see how planning makes a
successful event.
(04:16):
Now, Curran has not been thebest planner.
He does a lot of things and hedoes a lot of things well, but
probably like in that statement,he's saying he's not the best
planner.
SPEAKER_04 (04:26):
He's much more comfortable than a spontaneous
route.
SPEAKER_02 (04:29):
Spontaneous is true, off the cuff.
And he he does that really well.
Um, but it's true when you plansomething really well, it it
just makes for a magical timelike that.
And so um everything from thevenue to the food choices to um
the decor and and the various uhside tables for people to look
(04:53):
at.
SPEAKER_04 (04:53):
The uh they had a table of remembrance of of the
people who weren't able to bethere.
So your mom, your dad, Opa,Caleb.
They did that.
SPEAKER_02 (05:04):
And then Manny's side of the family too.
And and just like there were somany touches.
Manny took a year to plan thethe wedding, and um you could
really tell.
And then the rehearsal dinnerwas is was really great too.
SPEAKER_04 (05:20):
So which was your beautiful.
Um you you brought you broughtall the beautiful touches to
that experience.
SPEAKER_02 (05:27):
Well, we um I mean, we're together on this, but we
really like to take therehearsal dinner to sort of
honor the couple.
Here they are taking this bigstep in life to legally commit
to one another for the rest oftheir lives.
That's huge.
SPEAKER_03 (05:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (05:46):
And so I feel like um taking time to honor them for
people to step up to themicrophone and say what they
love about the person, whatthey've noticed, about the the
way they live their lives, uh,to do that all before the
wedding ceremony.
It's just special and peoplelove it.
(06:09):
Everybody loves it.
And so we had a really greatspot for that as well.
Um, with an indoor-outdoor, youknow, option.
Uh, people arrived and theycould go outside and and then we
all took a lot of.
SPEAKER_04 (06:22):
Took all the pictures on the sunset.
SPEAKER_02 (06:24):
Yeah, lots of pictures.
And um, yeah, so it was reallythat was nice too.
And uh everything was special.
The the friendship group of ourson and his wife, we really like
them.
And um, Manny's family, wereally like them.
And it's just worth it to tospend extra time nurturing those
(06:49):
relationships and takingadvantage where we could.
Yeah.
In fact, um what we did, which Ifelt a little skeptical about
it, but it was Manny's mother'sidea to share a large Airbnb for
this wedding event.
SPEAKER_04 (07:06):
For the whole weekend together.
SPEAKER_02 (07:07):
Yes.
So it was um the two of us, umManny, uh Manny and Curin, uh
our other uh children and theirspouses, um, and then Manny's
sister, her husband and baby,um, Manny's dad, and then
Manny's um mother and herhusband.
(07:28):
So that was in this big Airbnb.
And and we shared the space andit just made it more special.
And I'm just very, verygrateful.
SPEAKER_04 (07:38):
Yeah, one of the things I loved about the
rehearsal dinner, um, like youand I when we talk offline about
these things, you know, we wehope that people will come
prepared with, you know, nicethings to say and and and have
some thoughtful commentary uh atthe rehearsal dinner.
And I and the reason I lovedoing it there is because you
(07:58):
don't have the pressure of theday of you know, everybody
getting ready and having to dothis and that on the wedding
day.
So the night before, to be ableto have that time of blessing,
and I'm still moved by thespeeches that were given.
Everybody put together some verythoughtful things.
And uh, and like you said, theywere a blessing to the couple.
(08:20):
And and I'm a big believer inthe power of words, you know,
the power of blessing.
And to, you know, just see Mannyand Curran's face as they
received these words.
We had them nicely set up infront, and people kind of spoke
to them and the group.
Uh, it was such a memorableevening.
And then, of course, the samething about the wedding and the
(08:40):
next day where everything wasjust so well done.
Uh, did you have a favorite partin the wedding?
SPEAKER_02 (08:46):
Oh gosh.
Um, I I liked so many things.
It's hard to pick pick onething, but of course, we had the
mother-son dance and so my own,you know, private dance with
curren.
And then also walking out to thewhere the wedding was being
(09:08):
held.
And so um everybody seated intheir seats and something.
SPEAKER_04 (09:14):
You're coming in.
SPEAKER_02 (09:15):
Something hit me while we were walking in, and I
I was about to bust out intears.
I had to totally contain sobs.
I'm walking with you, and I lookover, and you had already I saw
the the lip quivering and thetanky out, and I was like, oh, I
(09:37):
was afraid I would have likeweird contortions on my face as
I was trying to withhold tearsand crying.
Um, tears did come, of course.
And then there was Kern standingup there, you know, waiting.
And um makes me teary even now.
But um, you know, his chinquivering at the at the
(10:01):
significance of it all.
SPEAKER_03 (10:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (10:03):
Um you know, our there's weddings all the time, I
know, and and parents that arelistening, you've had your own,
and they were very special.
But I think it's your childrenit um make these life decisions.
And a a life partner is the mostsignificant, you know, one of
the most significant choicesthey make.
(10:27):
Um and so with our our newdaughter-in-law Manny, her real
name is Manda, um, we met herwhen Curran was in college, you
know, over 10 years ago.
And Curran had a good friendgroup at University of Missouri,
and we would invite them overevery semester for like barbecue
or pizza or lasagna.
(10:47):
And um, Manny happened to be atone of those that I re remember
specifically, where we had areally nice conversation for
Yeah, she hung out after, talkedto us.
Yeah.
And so she was the only girlthat I ever asked Curran about.
I really liked her.
(11:07):
And for three years I askedabout Manny, and she was always
dating somebody else.
But then everybody in the friendgroup started getting married.
And um, Curran and Manny wouldgo to these weddings and they
would sit together, see eachother, talk to each other, and
they, you know, eventuallydecided to start dating.
(11:28):
And and it just feels so right,you know, it feels like a god
kiss that we would um meet herin our own home and have this
really just a really niceconversation with with this
girl.
Um, so many parents don't knowtheir their the person that
their child chooses until youknow after they're engaged,
(11:51):
maybe even.
SPEAKER_03 (11:52):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (11:53):
And so we had this little god kiss that we got to
meet her early on and feel likeyou liked her immediately.
Yeah, yeah.
So we love Manny.
SPEAKER_04 (12:03):
Yeah, I it one of my favorite parts of the wedding,
and like you said, there are somany favorite parts, but I love
the fact that they also includedMilo.
The dog.
Yeah, Milo's their uh a littlecorgie and uh and their baby,
really.
And they were thinking, but likehow can we include the dog?
(12:24):
And so they decided they weregoing to put the the rings in a
box and attach it to the collar.
And then at the right point inthe wedding, when I asked the
question, do we have rings tocommemorate the commitments
being made today?
They said, We do.
And then at that time, the twouh brothers of of Manny kind of
(12:47):
brought the dog out at the endof the aisle and then let him
go.
SPEAKER_02 (12:51):
And he was supposed to go with two valuable rings on
his collar.
SPEAKER_04 (12:57):
And so he like he looks at them and then he starts
going in between some of theaisles, and then finally Kern
says, treat, treat.
And that was apparently themagic word.
So he came came forward, andjust that whole moment I thought
was really fun.
SPEAKER_02 (13:12):
Yeah.
Milo is a fun dog.
SPEAKER_04 (13:16):
He was he was everywhere, he was on napkins,
he was on the uh what do youcall those, uh oh, the cozy
coozie or whatever.
Yeah, yeah.
So he was everywhere.
Um, so now that was our thirdson uh getting married.
And I'm you know, I found myselfbeing a little reflective after
the ceremony, like, okay, ourkids are now all officially
(13:36):
launched, they have their ownfamilies, and I'm just curious,
like from the mom's perspective,um like how is that for you?
Because now you you like it'salmost as if you can say, like,
your job is done.
It's not like totally donebecause they'll always need
their mom, but like, how hasthat trans transition been for
you?
SPEAKER_02 (13:56):
Oh, well, I you know, I'm still trying to trying
to find words to express myfeelings.
I'm trying to learn what myfeelings are.
But, you know, Curran was um thethird and he was the cuddliest
of the children.
Um that's long gone because he's31.
(14:18):
So um, you know, I said goodbyeto that a long time ago.
But there was this odd sensethat I had that our our youngest
was getting married, the last ofour children.
And why is that significant?
Why do I suddenly feelsomething?
He's been independent for a longtime.
SPEAKER_03 (14:37):
Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02 (14:37):
And um, I'm still trying to figure out what that
is.
We don't have grandchildren, andso there's there's not like that
next step really on the horizon,although I hope and trust that
that will be.
SPEAKER_04 (14:52):
We keep hinting.
SPEAKER_02 (14:53):
Yeah.
Um, I mean, not too much though.
Right, right, right.
So um, yeah, my I I'm I'm juststill wondering about my
feelings.
SPEAKER_04 (15:07):
Yeah, I and I do think that um I've heard you
know, psychologists and youknow, family therapists talk
about this, that it is adifferent experience for the mom
than it is for the dad.
That generally the mom, and Idon't want to be like too
stereotypical, but the momgenerally is like the nurturer,
the one who wants to create thenest in the home, and the
(15:27):
father's the one who's trying tohelp you know shoot them out and
get them going and shoot theminto the world.
And so I do think there, youknow, there's an adjustment of
trying to figure out like, okay,so I'm no longer the primary
nurturer.
They have other people now, allof our kids have other people in
their life who are functioningin that role.
So it's gotta be a little bit oflike, okay, so what it what does
(15:51):
that mean for me as the mom?
SPEAKER_02 (15:54):
Yeah, exactly.
If anybody has a bookrecommendation, let me know what
it is because uh I would like tokind of process that a little
more deeply and understandmyself so that I can enter the
season of being a grandparentbetter because I've processed
that.
And um, so if there's a book outthere, put it in the notes and
(16:17):
I'll or put it, you know, in thecomments and I'll read that.
SPEAKER_04 (16:22):
Yeah, and I think we're actually like in that
in-between time because it'slike you said, we don't we're
not grandparents yet, but we'reno longer parents in the you
know the most traditional sense.
So we're in this in-between timeof trying to sort out what it
means to be this in this place.
Yeah.
Um well let let me um transitiona little bit to like reflecting
(16:42):
on your overall motherhoodjourney, because you know,
you're you're kind of in thatseason where you're looking back
at the things you've done.
And there may be people who arelistening who are on the front
end of the journey.
And when you think about thethings that were most important
uh for you to do as a mom tolaunch these three kids, and and
(17:02):
you know, we have every reasonto feel so good about who they
are, and each of them are verydifferent, but they've all kind
of marked out their territoryand are making a difference in
the world for good.
And so I think people would wantto know, like, well, how did you
how did you create such uhindependent and and uh
well-adjusted kids?
(17:24):
Obviously, they made their ownchoices, and there was a lot of
other people who helped investin them, coaches, youth pastors,
children's pastors.
But from the mom's perspective,what was it that you like look
back on and say, I'm I'm really,I really think I got that that
part right?
SPEAKER_02 (17:41):
Yeah.
Um, uh, first of all, I talkedwhen I was pregnant with a
sibling, I would talk to, youknow, our firstborn Peter about
his baby sister that's sooncoming.
And I would tell him thingslike, You're gonna love her so
(18:03):
much.
She's so special.
You're gonna be a great bigbrother.
You're gonna teach her things.
And I would really nurture hisposition as the older brother
and how special the relationshipwas going to be.
I never spoke a negative wordbecause I wanted to him to get
(18:23):
the idea that wow, I, you know,like as a two-year-old, he has
this great thing coming.
SPEAKER_03 (18:31):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (18:32):
And and then likewise, when we were pregnant
with Curran, um, I got to speakto both of them.
And of course, Peter was six atthat point.
So he was really understandinghis role as a big brother and
Mallory as well as a big sister.
So I really feel like thoseconversations, and it wasn't
(18:52):
just during the pregnancy, butyou know, all through the little
things that happen throughout aday that these older siblings
get to be a big brother, a bigsister.
They get to to have this specialsibling.
And um, and I really feel likethat nurtured the relationships
(19:14):
that they they still have today.
Um, who knows, it could be justtheir personality, but I like to
think that the seeds you plantwhen they're little uh grow
into, you know, um biggerdecisions along the way.
You know, they they have thisnotion that this can be a really
good relationship.
Right.
(19:35):
My mom told me this, so I'mgoing to start acting like that.
And, you know, they never hadlike any option, at least coming
from us, that this is a badrelationship and you're a bad
brother or you're a bad sister.
SPEAKER_04 (19:51):
Like, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (19:52):
Yeah, like we all we work together and they have
great relationships.
I really think that what you sayis important.
So that would maybe be the firstthing.
The second thing, um we we uh umtried not to just hand them
things.
Of course, we loved I lovedgiving them presents and
(20:15):
surprises, but we also we wereon a very tight budget as a
family, and we the the kidssomehow I learned early that um
we through Dave Ramsey that thekids um shouldn't receive an
allowance.
That's just money given to themfor no reason.
(20:37):
But they could earn money bydoing little tasks and chores.
And I really liked that conceptthat they're not just getting
free money and I wasn't reallyfully aware of all of you know
what I was doing at the time,but um, I ended up uh creating
chore cards.
So I took file cards that hadvarious chores on there and
(21:01):
everything from uh I don't know,cleaning the sink, uh raking the
leaves, cleaning the toilet, umvacuuming, yes, like any
anything that people can doaround the house.
Of course, cleaning their room,they I wouldn't pay them for
that.
(21:22):
That's just their territory, andit's a requirement in our house
to keep it somewhat orderly.
You know, I was not a Nazi onthat, but you know, like if if
they were having a friend overto spend the night, their room
needed to start out somewhatorderly.
So that was not, you know, theywere not paid to to do that.
(21:42):
But any I had like 20 choresthat I had picked out, and you
know, I would have to make surethey did the chore so it was
like a real hassle sometimes.
And it didn't pay an exorbitantamount of money.
Um, Mallory really liked to uhthe highest paid chore was
(22:02):
cleaning the toilet.
So Mallory would always choosethat, but the quality of her
work was never top-notch.
SPEAKER_04 (22:10):
So maybe she's not watching.
SPEAKER_02 (22:14):
She knows that I I felt that way.
So I would send her back um, youknow, sometimes two times to get
the job right.
So three attempts at cleaningthe toilet if she wanted to get
paid, which I think back thenwas a a dollar.
And then, you know, uh we had away for them to um uh through
(22:36):
envelopes or however we did it,uh maybe jars.
Um, but three ways to to um uhhave a little jar for tithing, a
little jar for saving, and that,you know, we would talk about
what the saving would be for,and then another jar for
spending.
So um, you know, toys orwhatever.
SPEAKER_04 (22:57):
10 1080 plan.
Yeah, started.
SPEAKER_02 (22:59):
We started early.
And, you know, at some pointthose chores did not pay enough,
and they would get little jobs.
Um, Peter's first job was uh asa paperboy um when the newspaper
was still tossed onto sidewalks.
Um, Mallory would feed theneighbors cats and she'd get
(23:20):
paid for that.
And she was very generous withMallory.
And Kern also was a paperboy,and you know, like they they
just had these little jobs tostart around the neighborhood.
So I feel that um not handingthem, you know, money just
because um and we probably didthat too.
SPEAKER_04 (23:40):
I I feel like well we gave them, I think, if I
remember right, like certainallowances for clothes and
things.
Later on, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (23:48):
Later when they were older, we did that.
Um and if we were going onvacation, we would also give
them a little amount of moneybecause you know they're
spending money, yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (23:59):
But I think, you know, looking at them now, I
think that really gave them areal value for two things to you
know, to be conscientious ofmoney, like budgeting, but also
work ethic.
Like they are all three justsuper hard workers.
I mean this, they theyunderstand that like there's a
payoff between w working hardand and then the the experience
(24:21):
of of having some uh money inthe pocket.
SPEAKER_02 (24:24):
Yeah.
Okay, I I did have one morething to share about mothering.
Um so motherhood, parenthood isfraught with mistakes and you
know bad choices or uh a temperor um for me, one of my issues
(24:47):
was guilt over something I didwrong, you know.
Um you know, there's any numberof things I I won't recall them
here, but um yeah, I just I sI'm one of those that holds on
to like guilty feelings.
And so I think um I've dealtwith guilt and you know, knowing
(25:15):
that this is sort of part of whoI am to hold on to stuff for a
while.
Um but lately I've I've decidedthat you what I need to do is go
back to that memory of what I Idid not like about what I did
and to replay that.
(25:37):
And um I've asked God forforgiveness for certain things,
and I think that's you know,probably the first thing you
need to do.
But the second thing is toreally be intentional about
forgiving yourself.
SPEAKER_04 (25:49):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (25:50):
So um and then if it's you know needed to ask your
child's forgiveness, um, youknow, the probably they don't
remember depending on the age,but um, you know, to have a
conversation for clarificationand you know, we're all just
human and we're nobody'sperfect, nobody does parenthood
(26:14):
a hundred percent correct.
Um, if there are parents outthere like that, I don't I don't
want to meet you and you can gowrite a book.
So um, but I'm not one of them.
And um I I sure loved theparenting journey.
I especially loved it after theygrew up.
SPEAKER_04 (26:34):
And I mean, I love every stage, but yeah, I well,
and I think one of the thingsthat I I look back at um that
I'm super grateful for, both interms of like a strategic family
decision, but really it's reallylike what you decided to give
yourself to was that we got thisum advice when we were early in
(26:55):
our marriage from one of ourmentors, and that is that every
family, every couple decideswhat luxuries they're going to
give their children.
And they used the phrase, we aregoing to give our children the
luxury of a full-time mom.
And that really resonated withus.
I I remember talking about thatwith you, and like, how do you
feel about that being afull-time mom?
(27:16):
And you know, you had somecareer aspirations that you were
able to uh fall into and andpursue later in life, but we did
decide that that was the luxurywe were going to uh give to our
kids was a full-time mom.
And and early in our marriageand early in parenthood, that
was that was pretty sacrificial.
There were a lot of financial uhchallenges that we faced, but I
(27:39):
have no regrets about that thatdecision that uh you were
willing to take on that mantleand and and parent our children
as a full-time mom and the andthe gift that that they've
received in that, the luxurythey have in that, I think is
paid off many, many times over.
And uh so I want to commend youagain for that for that
(28:00):
decision.
I think that was a really goodcall.
SPEAKER_01 (28:02):
Well, I want to ask you what do you feel like you
did good as a dad?
SPEAKER_04 (28:09):
Well, I I was really resonating with your last part
of like because I remembered,you know, that one of the
challenges I felt uh when ourkids were teenagers, I I had to
have a a season with them, eachof them, uh, where I apologized
for uh approaching my work aslike too important, and and that
(28:32):
there were many things I missedwith our kids because I had
prioritized work and ministry.
And uh and they were allgracious, you know.
They kept saying, Well, you're agood dad, you're a good dad.
Um, but I still feel someremorse about the way in which I
did not make those decisions aswell as I could have.
Um, but I do think, you know,and this is something I've I've
(28:55):
heard you say, and it's it'skind of something I think we did
well.
I think through the thick andthe thin, we had our challenges
with each of our kids forvarious reasons, and uh we were
determined to love themregardless.
So to walk with them through thedifficulties um and the
challenges and and and and staylike committed to their success.
(29:18):
And I think we did that well.
And um I'm proud of uh the factthat we were we were able to
kind of see them through theirdifficult seasons and and and
now we're on the other side ofthat where they're just an
absolute delight.
And each and each of them, we weenjoy their company.
I think they enjoy our company,and uh it's like nothing could
(29:40):
be better than that.
SPEAKER_02 (29:42):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_04 (29:45):
All right.
Well, um let me pivot to yourprofessional life.
Um you now are uh have been forsix years uh in the real estate
world, and that is a uh It hasbeen, you know, some really good
times and then there have beensome really hard times.
And, you know, whenever you arebasically a full commission uh
(30:10):
job, when when things are good,it can be nice, but when it's
not, it's uh it's hard.
And this has been a particularlychallenging year in terms of
real estate for all kinds ofreasons.
And I'm just curious how youlike navigate the ups and downs
of a role like this, because I'mguessing that there are people
(30:30):
who are watching who findthemselves maybe not in the real
estate world, but in other kindsof roles where they have that
kind of experience.
And I'm just like maybe you canshare some of the wisdom, some
of the lessons that you've kindof gleaned in this season.
SPEAKER_02 (30:45):
Yeah.
Well uh in my real estatecareer, every year has been
better than the last, which I'mvery grateful for, um, until
this year.
And this year was especiallychallenging.
It's been the hardest year,quite frankly.
And um so it's been, you know,like a challenge for me to
(31:09):
figure out what do I do withthis?
And it was actually yesterdaywhere we were in a conversation
with some people, and we weretalking about the quote by M.
SPEAKER_04 (31:21):
Scott Peck, which is once you realize that life is
difficult, it's no longer so.
SPEAKER_02 (31:29):
No, that's not the the start of the book.
What's the first line of thebook?
SPEAKER_04 (31:32):
Life is difficult.
SPEAKER_02 (31:33):
Life is difficult.
Life is difficult, and for somereason, I think maybe because
every year was better than thethe last, that it just felt so
wrong that I would have a badyear, like in every way.
And I I uh spent lots of timeruminating over this and
(31:55):
wondering, you know, what am Idoing wrong?
And blah blah blah.
Anyway, life is difficult andthere are seasons where it's
just harder than others, and youjust um I I think in recognizing
that it makes the hard times alittle easier.
So um and and easier to hope forthe good things ahead.
(32:20):
So, you know, just because thefirst 10 months of this year
were hard doesn't mean that eventhe last two months will be
hard.
They may be fantastic, um, orthat next year is gonna be hard.
Um, but to somehow it maybecreates a little extra patience
for those things.
(32:41):
And then, you know, that's onething that was just yesterday
that I was thinking about that.
But really, I think that we havean opportunity to bring our
concerns to the Lord who givesus wisdom.
It says when we ask for wisdom,he will always give it to us.
And I feel like even though it'sbeen a hard year, I've been
(33:02):
given wisdom on you know, whatcan I do to move forward?
And so there's like faith is agreat guide and comfort all at
the same time.
SPEAKER_04 (33:14):
Amen.
Yeah, yeah.
And so when you're um thinkingabout your future and what what
this looks like for you, how howare you thinking about it?
And what is what gives youoptimism?
Because I think there's alsopeople who, um and part of the
reason why I think real estateis a little bit more challenging
right now is there's a lot ofhesitation around you know
(33:37):
what's happening in the markets,the interest rates and um
inventory and all those things.
So like what are some thingsthat you're telling yourself
that may also be helpful forthose who are similarly
distressed about the the wholeworld of real estate right now?
SPEAKER_02 (33:56):
Yeah, well, um I'm telling myself that the future
is bright.
Um I'm telling myself that theinterest rates have come down a
whole percent since last year.
And there are lenders out therewho give really great education.
(34:16):
So I partner, or not partner,but I have relationships with
really great lenders who love toeducate.
And so I I tell my, you know,people who ask me things, I say,
just write down your questionsor I can give you questions to
ask the lender.
SPEAKER_03 (34:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (34:34):
Because that's really their job is to to help
you learn about this.
I mean, how often do you buy ahouse?
Well, a lot of people arefirst-time buyers, but even if
they're a second-time buyer,they probably lived in that
house for 10 years and haven'tthought about getting a mortgage
for 10 years.
So they have to be re-educatedand lenders change, yeah.
(34:57):
Yeah, lenders um do a great jobof that and they're used to
doing that.
They expect it actually.
So um I I also um, you know,people ask me, is this a good
time to buy?
And I say, no, it's a great timeto buy.
(35:18):
And I can say that right nowbecause um interest rates are
expected to continue, thedownward trend.
Um, again, it's a it's a low, a1% lower rate from a year ago.
There's wonderful loan programsout there for all kinds of
situations.
Um, and some there's a productjust for you.
(35:41):
Um, and you know, if there'ssomebody with a low credit
score, there's programs just foryou.
Um, but it's a great time too,because if interest rates do go
lower, you can lower your rate.
There's programs out there justfor you.
SPEAKER_04 (35:57):
Yeah.
And I and one of the things I'veheard you say too is that like
given the trend, you know, rightnow there's uh inventory is
rich, like there's a lot ofinventory, and so you have your
pick and you can stillnegotiate.
But if it continues to go down,then all of a sudden the
competition uh for the inventorygoes up and you may not have as
(36:18):
many choices.
So this is actually a prettygood time given what's
available.
Um I've also heard you talk toclients uh who are looking at
new construction and and peopleum builders are offering all
kinds of incentives.
SPEAKER_02 (36:33):
It's just uh Yeah.
Builders offer great loan ratesthrough their um through their
lenders.
Ums their lenders is always iffybecause they're not great
communicators, they're not likeservice-oriented, but they do
have better rates.
So that's always an option.
Um, there's situations where umpeople who bought during COVID
(37:00):
and paid a higher price just toget into the house with that,
you know, two and a half percentmortgage rate.
They they did pay a higherprice.
And so some people are having ahard time getting out of those
houses.
And um, that's just anunfortunate situation.
Every everything is unique.
(37:20):
Um and then yeah, there's justlike it's there's so many
options out there.
It's it's so fun to talk about.
I never get tired of talkingabout it.
SPEAKER_04 (37:31):
Yeah.
So uh you also have someproperties at the lake.
We talked a little bit aboutthat at the intro.
Um, so you there are evenopportunities down, like if you
want a lakefront property, theycan talk to Carol Van Moore.
SPEAKER_02 (37:44):
Yeah.
So I work with our friend JakePanko.
Um we have lake lbjpropertygroup.com and have a
website there with uh an IDX umsearch engine.
So you could search for anythingreally um on there.
But we do together we work, youknow, to um find properties for
(38:06):
people who want to buy there.
Um if you have a 1031 exchangewhere you need to buy a property
real quick due to timeconstraints.
Um, you know, you can buy a lakeproperty where the mortgage is
covered through Airbnb rents.
SPEAKER_04 (38:25):
Oh man, I was so surprised.
Like we were looking at a like amultimillion dollar home.
SPEAKER_00 (38:30):
Yep.
SPEAKER_04 (38:30):
And then they gave their rental record of like what
they're getting as incomethrough Airbnb and short-term
rentals.
And it was like almost like amatch.
SPEAKER_02 (38:40):
This is like it it was yeah, it was a match to,
okay, so this is a$3.4 millionhome in an area that
accommodates short-term rentals.
The builder builds these homesand he has a lot of experience
building spec homes that aregigantic that are in short-term
(39:05):
rental areas that allow forthat.
And so he, as soon as the houseis built, he furnishes it and he
immediately begins renting itout on Airbnb.
That's crazy.
And so he has, you know, hardfacts that this kind of house
will earn 200 to 250K everyyear, uh, which then can pay for
(39:28):
the mortgage.
Yeah.
So the, you know, the problemwith a$3.4 million is getting a
down payment.
That's a little bit hard to do.
SPEAKER_04 (39:38):
But still, I mean, it just it makes makes what
seemed impossible at one pointto like, oh, maybe.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (39:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (39:46):
All right.
My last pivot.
I want to talk a little bitabout um, you know, we we have
been very fortunate over thelast uh now 18 months where I've
been cancer free.
Uh, but there was a season uhfor three or four years where it
was uh like every couple ofmonths we were doing something
else and had to deal withanother thing.
(40:08):
And uh and you had to serve inthat support role, and that was
not easy.
Uh and now this uh semester, uhI'm offering this course on uh
resilience, building yourresilience against cancer, and
that's for cancer warriors andthe support team.
And you decided to uh join mefor that uh for that class, and
(40:29):
I I very much appreciated youruh uh your involvement and your
uh your contributions.
Um and so I'm just curious, nowthat we're a little bit you know
away from that experience, uhwhat are what are some of the
things that you learned?
Uh what are the some of thethings that you might share for
people who find themselves in asimilar position, not
(40:51):
necessarily with cancer, butmaybe supporting a person who's
really going through a hardseason uh with in terms of a
health challenge.
What are some of the things youwould say share?
SPEAKER_02 (41:02):
Oh gosh, that's that's kind of a hard question
to answer because I'm not sureI'm all that intentional about
how I approach that.
SPEAKER_04 (41:15):
Um Well, it felt intentional.
SPEAKER_02 (41:18):
Okay.
Well, you know, I think that thefirst response that I had for
you in your situation was umcompassion.
Um I wouldn't want to be in yourshoes.
I can't imagine uh what thatmust feel like to hear that you
(41:39):
have the C word and um what thatwould mean.
I'm I think my my mind wouldjust be so busy with all the
what ifs and you know doingresearch on it and things like
that.
So anyway, compassion and umthere is a place that you can
exert the energy of compassion,and that is in prayer for your
(42:04):
partner.
So I prayed a lot for you and umasked God to heal you uh and
that you would be free and thatwe would have wisdom in how to
approach it.
And so, of course, that's notone and done, that's all you
know, constant.
Um uh and um the other way thatI knew you would appreciate um
(42:30):
support is by talking andtalking and talking about it.
So as much as you wanted to talkabout what cancer means and an
approach to the cancer,especially because we took this
this natural approach at first,100% natural, no no chemo,
(42:52):
radiation or surgery.
That was the approach we decidedit required a lot of
conversation.
And um, you know, what do we howdo we approach this with our
children?
Yeah, yeah.
Um what about our finances?
What about, you know, if itdoesn't work?
And so as much as you wanted totalk about it, I wanted to be
(43:15):
there to do that and to kind ofdraw you out as much as you
would.
I I know some people don't liketo talk about health issues.
So I I don't know what to say tosomething like that.
You were wanting to talk aboutit, yeah, and um you were great
about including me on anyprocessing that you were doing
(43:37):
that I I didn't even know youwere thinking about.
SPEAKER_03 (43:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (43:40):
Uh so I really grateful for for that.
And I I don't know if I have a agood word for people who whose
spouses don't want to talk aboutit, except to say that um to
tell them that you're there tobe a support and that discuss,
(44:00):
you know, you feel thatdiscussing things is is always
the best approach so that we,you know, move t together toward
you know forward.
This is a a we issue, not just ayou issue.
SPEAKER_03 (44:15):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_02 (44:16):
And if we can move through the process of health
decisions together, it's justpart of what marriage is about.
And you you make decisionstogether about parenting and
about money, but also healthdecisions ought to be um
(44:36):
together.
SPEAKER_03 (44:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (44:38):
And so just and even on that note, um, this was
happening to your body and youhad opinions about an approach
to take, and I wanted to hearthem.
But ultimately, those choicesare up to you.
We talked about them and we werewe were in alignment, but I also
(44:58):
felt like if you wanted to go adifferent direction, I had to
respect that and support you init, and not not like not support
you in a decision that I didn'tlike, but to um go with you and
and uh be there in that decisionthat you made.
SPEAKER_04 (45:19):
Yeah.
And I I respected that andappreciated it.
In fact, one of the things I Idon't know if I've ever told you
this, but um one of the things Ireally appreciated about the way
that we walk through thistogether was that you were
always um like even keeled.
Like if you were freaking out uhinside, I never I never knew it.
SPEAKER_02 (45:44):
Like did you want me to freak out?
SPEAKER_04 (45:46):
No, no, I don't know.
I was I was saying that Iappreciated your steadiness
through it.
Like I think sometimes andbecause I've now been working
with a lot of people who havecancer or have you know a
partner who has cancer, I cantell that there is like an
anxiety around this other personthat affects the the person
(46:12):
who's who has cancer.
Like when they're reallyanxious, this that creates a
another level of anxiety for theperson who's wrestling with the
disease.
And um and I think you were veryconscientious of saying, like,
I'm not going to add to theburden.
And that's not to say that thereweren't times where you said,
like, I'm scared.
(46:32):
This, you know, like when wewent up to Mayo and we had all
those surgeries, that was thatwas a scary time.
And and you were willing to saythat, so it wasn't like you were
being uh Pollyanish.
But uh uh overall, I would justsay that your your ability to
process yourself in order tohave some stability and
steadiness for me was superhelpful.
(46:55):
It was such a gift.
SPEAKER_02 (46:56):
I think it's helpful to go to the worst case scenario
for somebody in my position.
So to really grapple with that.
So, like you were going intosurgery, and I had to say, okay,
what if he doesn't make itthrough surgery?
Now, you know, it's the doctorwas very reassuring that that
(47:17):
wouldn't happen.
But you know, we all wonder, andum, you hear about weird
situations where somebody had areaction that the um doctors
didn't expect and suddenlythey're gone.
Um this this happened to mysister just recently.
SPEAKER_03 (47:35):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (47:36):
Um so I think to go to the worst case scenario and
ask yourself a couple ofquestions like if Pete leaves me
and he transitions to heaven,will I be okay?
Will I be okay uh emotionally,spiritually, uh financially,
(47:59):
relationally, all the you know,places of will I be okay?
And to wrestle with that, um Ithink the answer for everybody
can be yes, you can be okay.
Now you know, I knew that likelike everybody dies, okay?
(48:24):
But like if you were to leaveme, I know I'll be lonely and
you you fill my world.
You're my treasure.
Um, we're each other's treasure.
There you go.
Anyway, I I know that will bethe case, but I also know that I
can take steps to to not belonely, and I can I can do a
(48:44):
bunch of things to fill my timeand my relational network, and I
would miss you, yes, but uh Iwill be okay.
And so uh and I have God to cryout to, you know, and um tools
in my tool tool belt of life tomanage all that stuff.
(49:07):
So I feel like that is a keything to be to remaining even
keeled.
SPEAKER_04 (49:14):
Yeah, because if you go to the worst-case scenario
and you say, okay, I'll I won'tlike that, it'll be really hard,
but I can't I can I can do it.
I like by God's grace, I can doit.
Then no matter what happens, youfeel like, okay, well, I've I've
answered the hardest question.
You know, and so uh yeah, we cango there.
(49:35):
All right.
Well, I have thoroughly enjoyedour conversation again.
And I think uh your your uhresponses and your answers have
been really uh yeah, just thereyou I love it.
SPEAKER_02 (49:50):
Oh well, thank you for having me.
Probably everybody watchingthinks they do this every day.
They just sit in two chairsfacing one another.
And it's true we sometimes dothat, especially like if like
here we just had a wedding, sositting together and talking
through stuff is just apleasure.
SPEAKER_04 (50:09):
And um In fact, that's that's how I knew that
you were the right person forme.
SPEAKER_02 (50:17):
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (50:18):
All the way back in the prayer garden at ORU when we
had conversations about allkinds of everything.
We talked about everything.
Like we talked about theology,we talked about like our
experiences in life, and wetalked about like fun stuff, we
took a motorcycle ride.
I mean, like it was like we hadall the we covered all the gaps.
Yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (50:38):
In fact, we have this car ride coming up, and
it's a long one.
And I'm looking forward to it.
It's gonna be nice to betogether and talk about stuff.
SPEAKER_04 (50:47):
Yeah, I love it.
Well, thank you for talkingabout it here with my friends.
SPEAKER_02 (50:52):
You're welcome.
SPEAKER_04 (50:53):
And so thank you for joining us for another sidewalk
conversation.
So glad that you are here, anduh, we hope you join us next
time for another good sidewalkconversation.
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