September 4, 2025 • 36 mins
Today, we are exploring the connection between God's creativity and our own artistic expressions, focusing on how songwriters and musicians reflect the divine creative nature while also calling it forth in others.
• Creativity as our spiritual inheritance, beginning with God's revelation as Creator in Genesis 1:1
• Amy Hooper's journey from classical flutist to professional songwriter and worship leader
• Balancing ego and ministry when performing on stage or platform
• The discipline of songwriting as a daily practice versus waiting for inspiration
• Co-writing as a method to overcome creative blocks and broaden song perspectives
• Different approaches to Christian music: songs about God, worship songs to God, and songs about life with faith elements
• Practical advice for aspiring creatives: don't squelch what God's put on your heart
• The importance of humility and willingness to learn in developing creative gifts
Find Amy Hooper's music on all major streaming platforms including Apple Music and Spotify.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Piet Van Waarde (00:00):
Welcome to another episode of Sidewalk
Conversations.
I'm so glad that you are hereand I'm very excited about our
topic today.
We are going to be talking alittle bit about creativity, and
the way I want to get into thatis talking a little bit about
our initial revelation of God inScripture.
So if you go to the beginningof the Bible, genesis 1-1, we
(00:23):
read these words In thebeginning, god created the
heavens and the earth, and soour initial revelation of God is
related to his creativecapacity, that he showed himself
as the ultimate, supremecreator of it all.
Now, later, in that samechapter of Genesis, we are told
that we are created in his image, and part of what that means to
(00:51):
us, I think, is that we havesome of those same creative
juices flowing through us thatare meant to be expressed.
Now, one of the things I enjoyabout being around artists is
that they seem to have that likeat the forefront of their lives
.
Everything they touch, whetheras musicians or whatever medium
they use, they are allowing thecreativity of God that has been
placed in them to be expressedthrough their life.
(01:14):
Whether through a song orthrough a brush, they are able
to capture the essence of whoGod is and reveal, maybe even to
us, a little bit more about thenature of God.
In fact, one of the things Ithink are important to say is
that they are not just imitatingthe world by capturing
something in music or capturingsomething on canvas.
(01:35):
They are actually creating afresh, new perspective on that
world.
So they take the raw materialsof color and sound and emotion
and they put that together in acreative way to express
something about the nature ofthe world, whether it's
relationships, whether it's thebeauty of landscape or just
(01:57):
something deep within the soulthat needs to find expression.
And one of the things that Ilove about being around these
artists is they not only reflectGod's creativity to me, but, in
a kind of unique way, they callit forth from me, and that's
why I'm very excited about ourguest today.
She's one of these artists thatnot only reflects the nature of
(02:20):
God but calls forth creativityfrom those who she's around, and
so I'm excited aboutintroducing her to you here in
just a minute.
(02:43):
I want to begin, however, bysharing a thank you to our
sponsor of today's episode,tenfold Counseling.
They are located in Kansas City, missouri, and they are a
10-person counseling center withspecialties in things like
addiction, depression.
They work with troubled youthand they work through grief
(03:03):
processes with people orwhatever the emotional challenge
is that people are dealing with.
They seem to have a person onstaff that can has a specialty
in that area of concern, and oneof the things I love about the
work they do is that they arealso people who can meet with
folks from around the country,so even if you're outside the
Kansas City Metroplex, they arepeople that you can call and set
(03:26):
an appointment with.
I have known the director of theCounseling Center for many
years, crystal Rodenbaugh, and Ilove how she approaches the
counseling work, and I think wecould all admit that mental
health is a supreme need in ourday and attending to it is
absolutely important.
So if you have one of thoseneeds, please give Tenfold
(03:47):
Counseling a call.
We'll note the details here inthe description below, but now I
get a chance to introduce ourguest.
Please welcome, amy Huber.
Amy Hooper (04:00):
Hi, thank you so much, pete.
You are cheering.
I'm here with Pete.
Finally, hi, thank you so much,pete, you are cheering Woo, I'm
here with.
Piet Van Waarde (04:06):
Pete finally, yeah, we actually had you on the
schedule last season and then Ihad a little trip I needed to
make to Mayo, and so we have youearly in on season four.
Amy Hooper (04:15):
so thank you for being here.
Thank you so much.
I've been looking forward to itWell, thank you.
Piet Van Waarde (04:20):
So I just want to begin by saying that when I
first encountered you, we weretalking a little bit about this
before we went on air.
I saw you on the platform atShoreline Church our church and
you know, sometimes you just geta sense about people Like I
really appreciate right off thebat your skill both as a pianist
and a vocalist, but you alsohad this disposition that I
(04:45):
thought was so reflective ofwhat I think Christian music
needs to be about, where there'ssomething spiritual about how
you present yourself and it'stotally like you pick it up
subconsciously.
It's not something like youweren't flashy or whatever, it
was just something I had a senseof.
And then I met you at theprayer barn and it's just been
further confirmed every timeI've had a chance to spend some
(05:07):
time with you.
So that's why I was veryexcited about having you here.
So, just like, let's back upthe truck a little bit and talk
about, like, how you got intothe music scene, what were some
of the things that kind of hadthose initial promptings to move
in this direction?
Amy Hooper (05:31):
Oh my goodness.
Well, it goes way back.
I mean, we grew up with musicin the house.
My dad loved music, and mybrother's actually a
professional musician too.
He's an orchestrator, acomposer, a conductor.
He lives in Nashville, and sohe and I were always very into
music of all kinds, and we grewup with classical music in the
house, and so it was just.
I wasn't good at sports, Iliked music, writing languages,
and so that's just what we wereinto, and it really was.
(05:52):
In high school, as I wasexploring lots of different
musical paths, I really feltlike this is kind of the only
thing I can see myself doingwith my life, and a lot of
prayer into that.
And the Lord provided a way forme to go to Baylor University,
and so I was actually a fluteperformance major at.
(06:13):
Baylor University.
So my initial musicaltrajectory was classical
performance.
Piet Van Waarde (06:20):
And then, how did you get into the worship
scene?
Amy Hooper (06:22):
Well, my dad and I always loved being part of the
choir at church.
We went to a Baptist church inOklahoma City and, yeah, that
was something that he and I didtogether and so I just I mean, I
loved Jesus and I loved Ireally didn't sing that well at
the time when I trained, but Iloved singing and being part of
(06:45):
the music that was happening inthe church and so it just seemed
like the most natural place forme to express my love for the
Lord and to use that in that way, and it was something my dad
and I did together.
Piet Van Waarde (06:57):
That makes you all special.
Amy Hooper (06:58):
Yeah, I loved that.
Those were really special years.
Piet Van Waarde (07:01):
So, outside of your dad and family, what?
What were some of your earlyinfluences Like?
Who inspired you?
Who did you listen to?
Who kind of helped shape yourmusic?
Amy Hooper (07:12):
Well, I mean lots of classical music because you
know that's what I was choosingto study.
But outside of that, likegrowing up I I loved.
You know it was the 80s, so AmyGrant, michael W Smith, all of
that.
But then also I loved my mom'sBeach Boys records from when she
was a kid, those Beach Boysharmonies Like I mean, come on
(07:34):
you know.
So I loved that.
And then I really wasn't thatsatisfied with the popular music
that was happening at the timethat I was in high school and so
I actually started getting intolistening to classic rock,
which is funny, but like that Ireally dug deep into like
Southern rock and classic rockand that was what I was really
into leading up into college.
(07:56):
And so there was always this,this love of popular song.
You know I'm not talking aboutabout the difference between
secular and sacred, butnon-classical music.
I always had a love of songsand things that had words
attached to them of alldifferent kinds of genres, and
(08:17):
just always really loved thatfrom the start, even long before
I ever started pursuingsongwriting.
Piet Van Waarde (08:25):
You talk about classic rock.
I always tease my kids becauseof course we played a lot of
music in our house growing up.
And next thing I know and thiswas like right at the outset of
iPods and all that, and so thenI would kind of catch my kids
listening to classic rock andthey're like what are you doing,
stealing our music?
(08:46):
It's just good music.
It's just good music.
Amy Hooper (08:49):
Well, and this was like older, you know, than I was
, like you know, I was born inthe 70s but I wasn't listening
to that music in the 70s when itwas happening.
But I just loved all thedifferent layers and textures,
different layers and texturesand yeah, I just I found it more
organic and real than whensynthy type things started to
(09:10):
happen.
I always loved that, just therawness of it.
It's not overproduced, it'skind of like what we're doing
here, like we're not going toedit these things out, like what
happens now is what we got, youknow, and I loved that.
And that's kind of howclassical music is too.
You know, that's long beforerecordings.
(09:31):
That's how people experiencetheir music was they would get
in the room with their musician.
And that moment that you sharewhen the music is being shared,
that's it.
That's the moment.
Piet Van Waarde (09:40):
Yeah, I love that.
That's a great way to describeit.
Okay, so you get on stage andnow you started with choir.
But now you're on stage at alarge church and one of the
things I've and I'm comparingthis to some of the things I've
experienced in life where you'reon a platform, the lights are
on you, everybody's applauding,oh, you're so good, and there's
(10:05):
something very ego-feeding aboutall that, and one of the things
I've watched is that sometimespeople can get into this space
where they start believing it'sall about them and they're the
star of the show.
Quote unquote.
I've had to wrestle with thatat various seasons of my own
life.
Show quote unquote.
(10:26):
I've had to wrestle with thatat various seasons of my own
life, and so I'm curious if youhave A, have you found yourself
trying to navigate some of thatyourself?
Because you don't just performin church, you also perform in
the community, at various venues.
Have you had to wrestle withthat and, if so, how do you kind
of keep yourself in check?
Amy Hooper (10:44):
That's a great question.
Yes, wrestled with it fordecades.
So one of the interestingthings, I think, coming from
classical music, is that,because of what it is,
perfectionism is like such ahuge part of the culture.
I mean such a huge part of theculture.
(11:08):
I mean when it's you might have1000 people audition for one
open spot in a symphony, so youhave to be perfect at the craft
and it's all about being able toperform at that perfect,
perfect level in the moment.
So when you couple that alongwith the attention of the stage,
it's really, really easy tomake it about you.
Oh for sure.
But that's the opposite of whatGod's calling us to as worship
(11:32):
leaders.
And so that dichotomy forced meto really get with the Lord and
examine what are my motives fordoing this.
I think it actually reallyreally helped that I was when I
started singing in the churchenvironment, that I was not a
professional singer, and itactually really helped to be
(11:53):
imperfect and have to learn theskill of being not that great at
it, and yet the point of beingthere was to worship the Lord
and to help.
You know, take the others bythe hand metaphorically and say
come with me and let's worshipthe Lord together.
Right, and so the Lord was justall through my 20s and 30s,
(12:15):
simultaneously killing off thatperfection in me, that
perfectionism, I guess I shouldsay because I was never going to
achieve perfection, Right, thatperfectionism, I guess I should
say, because I was never goingto achieve perfection, right,
but that perfectionism that Ihad learned as a habit in my
profession.
He was killing that off in myministry.
So, it was very humbling, it wasvery hard and it's still
(12:44):
something that I just have toconstantly check.
Um, just have to do a motivecheck all the time.
Piet Van Waarde (12:48):
Yeah.
Amy Hooper (12:48):
Like why are you doing this?
Um, I think one of the bestways to to really have that
heart check is to have people inyour life like good
accountability, um, people whoknow you that well that they can
tell by.
They are watching you on thatstage and they know where your
heart is because they know youthat well, and they'll come to
you afterward and say, uh-uhyeah.
Piet Van Waarde (13:11):
What was that about?
What was that about?
Amy Hooper (13:13):
Yep.
So I really guard thoserelationships very, very closely
.
They're a gift from God to meto help me serve him effectively
.
Piet Van Waarde (13:26):
So does that answer your question?
Yeah, it does, and it promptsanother question that we didn't
really talk about.
But I'm curious if you cananswer, and that is like I think
it's really like I have somepeople in my life that kind of
look to me for that type ofaccountability as well, and one
of the things I find sodifficult is to like be able to
(13:47):
say to somebody hey, somethingfelt off.
And so I'm curious, from theexperiences that you've had with
people who are in that lane inyour life, what are some of the
things that they've done thathelped make it something you
could receive?
Because you know our reactionis like wait, what are you
(14:08):
talking about?
Amy Hooper (14:09):
My heart's you know, yeah, yeah, well, I think just
the long-term relationships.
Actually, I'm thinking.
The first thing that came tomind was a conversation with my
friend, Amanda, who we have beenvery close ever since college,
and it was kind of the flip sideof what we're talking about
(14:31):
here.
And we're talking about whathappens when you get a big head
because you're leading on thestage, right.
Well, the opposite can happen.
It can also.
The attention can make you soself-conscious that you don't
obey the Lord and step out inyour gifting.
And that's still pride.
And I remember a season where Iwas struggling with being bold
enough to obey and Amandaliterally sat me down at dinner
(14:54):
one day and was like who do youthink you are that?
you can tell God no about this,like you were meant to do this
and if you chicken out thenyou're disobeying God.
And she was like I am going tocome for you if you do not step
forward in this.
And I will never forget thatbecause it was kind of the kick
(15:16):
in the pants I needed to getover my self-consciousness on
something and to step out.
And a lot of really good thingshappened because I did it.
But I needed her pushing me.
But we're talking about that inthe context of a relationship
over years and I knew she lovedme and I knew she wasn't just
being pushy or like come on,you're so good it wasn't empty
praise, it was a challenge, andso I really think it's the
(15:38):
context of a relationship thatmakes those conversations
possible.
Piet Van Waarde (15:41):
Awesome, so well said.
Okay, so you're also asongwriter, so you're not only a
performer, but you also writemusic, and that's always
fascinating to me.
I love hearing people's storyabout how that happens.
So when you are in thesongwriting mode, tell me a
little bit about that process.
Like, is it something where youmode?
(16:04):
Tell me a little bit about thatprocess.
Like, is it something where yousit down and say I want to
write some music?
Or are you like in anenvironment and something hits
you and you find yourself saying, oh, I got to write a song
about that.
How does that work?
Amy Hooper (16:13):
for you.
Yes, both when it started it wasmore of a I have feelings that
I need to get out, but now I'mjust so happy that I'm finally
at this point in my life where Ican say like I'm a professional
songwriter.
It's something I dreamed aboutfor a long time and worked
really hard to be at this point,and so now, as a full-time
(16:37):
songwriter, I got to go to workevery day, and so that means you
got to go and you got to writeevery day, whether you feel like
it or not, whether you have anidea or not.
And ideas kind of you know theycome at you randomly and so you
have to find ways to catch themso that when it's time to sit
down and write, then you go andpull an idea from your random
(16:58):
note on your phone or whereveryou like to keep them.
But having those systems inplace to catch the randomness,
but then having the disciplinein place to sit down and
actually work on it and buildsomething every day, and so I
write every day in some way, andyou know, sometimes that
results in a full song andsometimes it's just something
(17:19):
that needs to be deleted.
But, yeah, so songwriting nowlooks a lot different than it
did when I was first starting,because it's a craft that I've
learned the skills and themethods of, and I approach it
like a job now instead of ahobby or just a little side
project.
Piet Van Waarde (17:38):
How'd that transition happen?
Because I think for some people, how did that transition happen
?
Because I think for some people, you know, it remained like, in
my sense is like when I think Ican compare it to like sermon
writing, Like when you have anassignment, you got to get a
teaching ready.
You have to sit down and do it,whether you feel like it or not.
But I get the impression maybeyou can correct me if I'm wrong
(18:05):
on this but I get the impressionthat sometimes with art it's a
little different.
It's like at least theimpression I've gotten is that
people say, well, I have to waitfor the inspiration or I have
to wait for something to hit me.
But you're suggesting that it'sactually the opposite.
Yeah, that comes, but for a lotof songwriters it really is.
You got to just sit down andstart with the blank piece of
paper or the keyboard and juststart hitting the keys.
Amy Hooper (18:26):
Yeah, I think the most prolific long-term
songwriters in the industry arethe ones that show up and write
every single day, and so I thinkthat's really when I made the
switch to thinking do I want todo this as a profession?
Then I had to start thinkingand behaving like a professional
(18:46):
songwriter would.
But it is a lot like sermonwriting, in the sense that you
might have an idea that you wantdesperately to communicate and
you might be able to sit downwith a friend and communicate
that really quickly and have agreat conversation.
But if you're going to presentit in a way that then is going
to be, you know, videoed, cut upinto soundbites, you know, put
(19:10):
into a series with a whole bunchof other similar topics and
themes, then you've got to thinkit through and you've got to
craft it in a way that it'sgoing to have shape and plot in
a way and just make an impact.
It just requires a lot moreform and thought and intent, and
so deadlines can help you getthat done right.
Piet Van Waarde (19:34):
Some days come around with amazing writing.
Amy Hooper (19:35):
Yeah, so deadlines can be really really helpful in
actually finishing things right,but I do think it's a lot like
sermon writing, or I would thinkthat for novelists it's it's a
lot of the same thing you knowthey get plot ideas, but you
can't just write an idea downand call it a book.
You know you've got to flesh itout and and develop everything
and write the dialogue and allthat, so, um.
(19:56):
So I think there's similaritiesthere.
Piet Van Waarde (19:59):
Can you walk us through, like uh, a song maybe
that you've done recently andkind of how that process worked
for you?
Amy Hooper (20:05):
Okay, yeah, let's see, all right.
Well, so here's a song that Iactually released last month I
think it was called Short StoryLong, and I wrote this with my
good friend, chris Biel, and heand I write together a lot and,
honestly, I wouldn't be aworking songwriter right now if
it weren't for Chris Bealbelieving in me.
He was sent by God to help me.
(20:25):
So we had an appointment towrite a song together that day,
and you know, normally when yougo into a co-writing session,
you want to bring several ideas.
You want to have an idea ofwhat you want to write, for you
need some things to chase someyou know, some, some points to
chase.
But he and I've been writingtogether a lot and he's he
(20:48):
really he tells great storiesand things like that.
And so I usually what I can dois just kind of get him talking
and he'll drop some like amazingnugget of wisdom or or a cool
phrase or something that we canbuild a song around.
And so that's exactly whathappened that day.
He came over, he was telling mea story and he said to make a
(21:19):
short story long.
And I was like that's it, we'regoing to write that.
And so then we sat down and wesaid, okay, if that's our hook
for the song, than it shouldhave.
And somebody was, you know, alittle too loyal and they needed
to figure out when to say no.
So then we kind of wrote versesthat were like plot of that.
And then you know, short storylong is kind of the tagline or
the hook.
It's also the title of the song.
That's usually a smart idea.
(21:44):
And then we kind of wrote afollow-up verse that sort of
said okay, now that thisperson's moved on, what does
life look like?
And then we thought, okay,short story long, that kind of
sounds like it could be a cooldriving song, something you want
to roll the window down, and sowe were talking about the vibe
that we wanted for the song.
And then we listened to someother songs that we kind of
liked the feel of and thoughtthis is sort of the same feeling
(22:05):
or vibe that we would want.
You know, if we could put this,our new song, in a playlist,
we'd want these other songsaround it, and so those were all
things that we used to help uscraft the song, and so then we
wrote the lyrics, we wrote themusic, and then you know, do you
have like a preference, likethe lyrics first or the melody
first?
I'm a words person.
So, I usually end up withlyrics first, and I often get
(22:29):
called into co-writes to be thelyricist or to edit someone
else's lyrics into song-ish form.
The challenge for me, then, issometimes to approach it
differently and to start with amelodic idea or start with a
baseline instead and try to getout of a creative rut that way.
Piet Van Waarde (22:54):
But usually for me it's words.
And talking about ruts, do youever find yourself in a rut?
Amy Hooper (22:57):
Yeah, and what helps kick you out of it.
Doing a different approach likethat is really good.
Co-writing is fabulous.
I don't know if you feel likethis whenever you write sermons.
If you get stuck, does it helpfor you to go and sit down and
talk to somebody about it andjust kind of pick?
Piet Van Waarde (23:13):
their brain a little bit.
Yeah, so when I was regularlypreaching, I actually had a team
of people that helped me writethe message.
So I would start off with likehere's the I would call it my
synopsis.
So it was like a paragraph onwhat I felt like I wanted to say
, and here was a scripture thatI wanted to build the message
(23:33):
off of.
And then just like, exactlywhat you just talked about,
what's the plot?
How are you going to get intothat idea?
What are the barriers thatpeople are going to have to that
subject?
And then what's the application?
As you live it, live out theprinciples, and so to have other
people kind of challenge me onthat or give me like, have a
(23:56):
younger person an older personmale, female, of different
ethnicities I mean, having acreative team that helps put it
together was such a gift to me.
I had that gift for 20 years ata church that I served back in
Missouri.
That's awesome.
It was just amazing.
I love that.
Amy Hooper (24:13):
Yeah, really, I think co-writing is that for me,
just to have if I get stuck onsomething.
Actually, just yesterday I hadwritten a song fragment it was.
I felt like it was really strong, but I couldn't get the rest of
the song and I'd been holdingonto it for about two months and
(24:34):
so yesterday I sat down withKyle O'Neill from Shoreline that
you know, and our friend MJRoss and we sat down and wrote
the rest of the song togetherand it, like that that takes
care of the block is becausethen they can listen to it and
they're like, oh, this is good,or oh, you know what, all of a
sudden, if we take this off andwe can add this other thing, and
like they inherently knew whatto do where I was stuck.
(24:56):
And so that's the beauty ofco-writing, do musicians.
Piet Van Waarde (25:00):
One of the things I noticed with other
pastors when it came to sermonwriting and their resistance to
a team was that they felt likeit wouldn't be as authentic if
it was like other people's input, and so they always felt like
the best place to write a sermonwas in the study, alone with
(25:22):
God and your Bible, and notreally inviting other input.
And I'm curious does thathappen with musicians as well,
where they are kind of resistantto like I don't want anybody to
mess with my Totally?
Amy Hooper (25:36):
And I certainly have my songs that I'm like this
one's too personal.
Nobody gets to touch this one,but that's usually how you know
that song's either not evergoing to get released.
It's really not for that, it'sjust for you.
Piet Van Waarde (25:50):
And that's okay , that's.
Amy Hooper (25:52):
You know, songs are great therapy, but also
sometimes it's just that I knowthat this one it might be a
better song if I submitted it toa co-writer, but something
about it I'm not willing tosubmit and so I just have to set
that one aside.
And so I just I just have toset that one aside, and
sometimes they'll make it tobeing released and sometimes
(26:12):
they won't.
Um, but that's okay.
You know not every song is meantfor.
You know the radio, so um, butI do think in general, the ones
that are meant for the radiobenefit from multiple voices
because, multiple people aregoing to listen to it, and so
it's going to hit more hearts ifyou have more people involved
(26:34):
in making it, because it hitseveryone a little bit
differently.
Piet Van Waarde (26:38):
Yeah, and I think too, it's just like it
feels very wise to me that ifyou're going to try and say
something or sing something, ifit's just you, it's going to be
very narrow in terms ofperspective.
It's going to be like your lifeand your things that you value,
but when you bring other voicesinto it, it just broadens.
(26:59):
I have had so many experienceswhere somebody will say, well,
have you considered this?
And it's like no but that's,exactly.
Or even, like you were saying,phrasing like the long story
short.
Just that phrase can open up awhole new way of thinking about
it and gives you like, oh, Ilike that angle.
(27:20):
I want to use that.
Amy Hooper (27:22):
Yeah, yeah, it really really can.
So, yeah, that's one of thebest things about it.
And then like back to thecreative rut thing.
The other thing I was going tosay is that take a walk.
Piet Van Waarde (27:34):
That's the other thing If you're in a
creative rut take a walk.
Yeah, get away from it for abit yeah.
Amy Hooper (27:38):
Yeah, I see that.
I don't know.
It just really seems to help.
Piet Van Waarde (27:42):
So you've been doing it for a while.
How long have you been doing?
Amy Hooper (27:44):
this, um, I've been writing for over 20 years but I
haven't been pursuing it in thelike the public space or like um
, really getting to share songsuntil about a decade ago, coming
up on 10 years from that firstthing and that was, you know,
(28:09):
that was a huge step in thatdirection.
So, and now I have the privilegeof writing with other artists
and seeing them release thingsthat we've co-written together,
and that's really my joy.
It's just, you know, helpingthem take their stories and make
it succeed for them, like Ireally love that.
Piet Van Waarde (28:28):
That's very exciting.
Now, are you more of a like Ilike the creative process of
getting the song written or doyou like the performance side?
Do you have a preference?
Amy Hooper (28:38):
um, I think I enjoy the writing part the most, which
is good because that's how I'mgoing to spend the bulk of my
time.
I actually really loverecording and performing.
I have not done a lot of it, Ijust get to kind of do it
piecemeal.
But I'm only recently an emptynester and so suddenly my life
(28:58):
is very different schedule wise,and I also was on staff at
Shoreline until January and sosuddenly, not, you know, I just
felt like it was time for thatseason to end and so, like I
have a lot more time, so I'masking the Lord what the next
step is.
But I really do love.
My favorite type of performingas a singer, songwriter is like
(29:22):
at a house show or something,with about like 30, 40 people 30
, 40 people and just having thatlike we talked about earlier,
that moment where you share asong and a story and everyone
experiences it together and itjust kind of lives in that space
.
You know, it doesn't have to beon the radio, it doesn't have
(29:42):
to be, you know, on YouTube oranything like that, but there's
something sacred about thatrelationship with the listener
that I really, really love, andso that's my favorite way to
communicate songs of all kinds,ones I've written, you know,
covers or whatever.
Piet Van Waarde (30:00):
Okay, now when you?
Again, this is not something Ithought about asking until now,
but like I thought about askinguntil now.
But in the Christian genrethere seems to be songs that
tend to be in the portfolio ofsongs about God and then more on
the worship side of songs toGod.
(30:22):
Do you find yourself leaningone way or another when you
write, and maybe not even aboutGod, just about life.
Amy Hooper (30:32):
Yeah, I really write songs.
I think that the easiest onesfor me to write would be songs
about life that are somewhatthat have faith as an element or
have scripture somehow woven in, so like a little sneaky
scripture, Jehovah.
Sneaky is what Candy would sayour friend.
(30:56):
So those are the easiest for meto write.
Those are kind of my naturalbent.
But I also love writingdevotional songs and then, like
corporate worship, songs I findreally challenging to write, and
so I'm in a season right nowwhere I am challenging myself to
write more of those.
I find them harder to writebecause they have to be singable
(31:19):
for the average non-musician.
But also it's like we got tofind a way to tell the old old
story in a new, new way, youknow.
Way to, you know, tell the oldold story in a new, new way, you
know.
And so trying not to overuse allthe same phrases and things but
also make it, you know, highlyscriptural, highly biblical, you
(31:39):
know, completely actual worshipto the Lord, you know, focused
on Him.
And so those are some prettynarrow parameters for a song,
and so finding a new way to dothat is really a big challenge,
so, but so the easy ones are the, you know, this is just sort of
my life experience and what'son my heart.
Here it is, you know, butthat's kind of low hanging fruit
(32:00):
, you know.
Piet Van Waarde (32:01):
Okay.
So what would you say to like aperson who is where you were 20
years ago, first kind offlirting with the idea of doing
music or art in some way, buthaving all the hesitations?
Amy Hooper (32:15):
about it.
Piet Van Waarde (32:16):
What advice would you give to them?
Amy Hooper (32:19):
I would say several things.
Number one if God's put it onyour heart, don't try to squelch
it.
Piet Van Waarde (32:31):
Just pray and ask him to show you what to do?
Amy Hooper (32:33):
I tried to get that songwriting thing to go away for
a long time and it wouldn't.
And, um, things started reallyhappening when I finally said
okay, lord, if you want me to dothis, then I'm going to need
some help.
Show me what to do.
And he sent me friends thatmentored me and I know it was
him.
The other thing is Can I campout?
Piet Van Waarde (32:57):
on that point for a minute.
Yeah, go ahead.
Because I think there's such avaluable principle in what you
just described and that is thegift of humility To be able to
say I want to do this, but Iwant to be teachable too.
Like I want to put myself in aposition where I can hear from
others.
I don't want to just likeisolate myself and not, you know
(33:19):
, say I don't need that, youknow, just to be a place of
submission, say, hey, this is agift that I think I may have,
and could you teach me or showme some things.
So I think, yeah, I just wantto put a check mark by that
exclamation point.
Amy Hooper (33:35):
Oh yeah, and absolutely.
And I think as a musician Ihear, oh, you're so talented,
and I know that that's wellmeant, but I honestly, I might
have a little bit of talent, butI don't think that's my asset
as a musician.
That's not my greatest asset.
My greatest asset is mywillingness to learn and that I
(33:58):
love learning, and that's reallythe second point that I would
say is that you need to become astudent of the thing that you
want to learn how to do studentof the thing that you want to
learn how to do.
It's really tempting to thinkof the arts as just feelings
based.
You know, paint what you feel,write what you feel.
Well, that's the starting point, but there's a craft involved
(34:21):
and people who seriously do itas a profession treat it like a
living and they work at it likea living.
And so learn how to do that well, but it does have to start with
that humility, the willingnessto learn and to be a beginner.
You know, before you can getgood at something, you got to be
bad at something, right.
So, but I think that's that'sreally where I was when, when
(34:45):
this all started, and that's theadvice I was receiving from my
friends, like, hey, if you wantto do this, then you need to,
like, apply yourself, you know,read some books, practice
writing every day, you know.
And then, in the point when Ifinally got to go play a song
for somebody who was, you know,being kind and willing to help
(35:06):
me, then I sat down with him andplayed him a song and he's like
, oh, you already know how towrite songs.
You've been really working atthis, haven't you?
And and he was surprised, butthen I was just like so glad
that I had already put all thatwork in before I had that
opportunity, you know.
Piet Van Waarde (35:25):
So where can people find your stuff?
Amy Hooper (35:27):
Anywhere you stream or listen to music, then you
know most of the time people areusing like Apple Music or
Spotify, and so it's really easy.
It's Amy Hooper, like a hulahoop or a basketball hoop, but I
don't do those things, I'm nota big video person.
So I have a little bit of stuffon YouTube, but mostly
streaming.
But also you know I write forother bands as well, and so you
(35:55):
know I write for other bands aswell, and so you know listen to
your local Americana playlistand you might hear something.
Piet Van Waarde (35:57):
Well, this has been so good.
Thank you so much for makingtime to be with me today and
loved hearing the story andloved hearing how you do your do
.
Amy Hooper (36:04):
Thank you.
Piet Van Waarde (36:05):
And I want to thank you all for joining us.
It's been a great having youwith us as well, and so join us
again next week for anotherSidewalk Conversation.
Welcome to another episode of Sidewalk
Conversations.
I'm so glad that you are hereand I'm very excited about our
topic today.
We are going to be talking alittle bit about creativity, and
the way I want to get into thatis talking a little bit about
our initial revelation of God inScripture.
So if you go to the beginningof the Bible, genesis 1-1, we
(00:23):
read these words In thebeginning, god created the
heavens and the earth, and soour initial revelation of God is
related to his creativecapacity, that he showed himself
as the ultimate, supremecreator of it all.
Now, later, in that samechapter of Genesis, we are told
that we are created in his image, and part of what that means to
(00:51):
us, I think, is that we havesome of those same creative
juices flowing through us thatare meant to be expressed.
Now, one of the things I enjoyabout being around artists is
that they seem to have that likeat the forefront of their lives
.
Everything they touch, whetheras musicians or whatever medium
they use, they are allowing thecreativity of God that has been
placed in them to be expressedthrough their life.
(01:14):
Whether through a song orthrough a brush, they are able
to capture the essence of whoGod is and reveal, maybe even to
us, a little bit more about thenature of God.
In fact, one of the things Ithink are important to say is
that they are not just imitatingthe world by capturing
something in music or capturingsomething on canvas.
(01:35):
They are actually creating afresh, new perspective on that
world.
So they take the raw materialsof color and sound and emotion
and they put that together in acreative way to express
something about the nature ofthe world, whether it's
relationships, whether it's thebeauty of landscape or just
(01:57):
something deep within the soulthat needs to find expression.
And one of the things that Ilove about being around these
artists is they not only reflectGod's creativity to me, but, in
a kind of unique way, they callit forth from me, and that's
why I'm very excited about ourguest today.
She's one of these artists thatnot only reflects the nature of
(02:20):
God but calls forth creativityfrom those who she's around, and
so I'm excited aboutintroducing her to you here in
just a minute.
(02:43):
I want to begin, however, bysharing a thank you to our
sponsor of today's episode,tenfold Counseling.
They are located in Kansas City, missouri, and they are a
10-person counseling center withspecialties in things like
addiction, depression.
They work with troubled youthand they work through grief
(03:03):
processes with people orwhatever the emotional challenge
is that people are dealing with.
They seem to have a person onstaff that can has a specialty
in that area of concern, and oneof the things I love about the
work they do is that they arealso people who can meet with
folks from around the country,so even if you're outside the
Kansas City Metroplex, they arepeople that you can call and set
(03:26):
an appointment with.
I have known the director of theCounseling Center for many
years, crystal Rodenbaugh, and Ilove how she approaches the
counseling work, and I think wecould all admit that mental
health is a supreme need in ourday and attending to it is
absolutely important.
So if you have one of thoseneeds, please give Tenfold
(03:47):
Counseling a call.
We'll note the details here inthe description below, but now I
get a chance to introduce ourguest.
Please welcome, amy Huber.
Amy Hooper (04:00):
Hi, thank you so much, pete.
You are cheering.
I'm here with Pete.
Finally, hi, thank you so much,pete, you are cheering Woo, I'm
here with.
Piet Van Waarde (04:06):
Pete finally, yeah, we actually had you on the
schedule last season and then Ihad a little trip I needed to
make to Mayo, and so we have youearly in on season four.
Amy Hooper (04:15):
so thank you for being here.
Thank you so much.
I've been looking forward to itWell, thank you.
Piet Van Waarde (04:20):
So I just want to begin by saying that when I
first encountered you, we weretalking a little bit about this
before we went on air.
I saw you on the platform atShoreline Church our church and
you know, sometimes you just geta sense about people Like I
really appreciate right off thebat your skill both as a pianist
and a vocalist, but you alsohad this disposition that I
(04:45):
thought was so reflective ofwhat I think Christian music
needs to be about, where there'ssomething spiritual about how
you present yourself and it'stotally like you pick it up
subconsciously.
It's not something like youweren't flashy or whatever, it
was just something I had a senseof.
And then I met you at theprayer barn and it's just been
further confirmed every timeI've had a chance to spend some
(05:07):
time with you.
So that's why I was veryexcited about having you here.
So, just like, let's back upthe truck a little bit and talk
about, like, how you got intothe music scene, what were some
of the things that kind of hadthose initial promptings to move
in this direction?
Amy Hooper (05:31):
Oh my goodness.
Well, it goes way back.
I mean, we grew up with musicin the house.
My dad loved music, and mybrother's actually a
professional musician too.
He's an orchestrator, acomposer, a conductor.
He lives in Nashville, and sohe and I were always very into
music of all kinds, and we grewup with classical music in the
house, and so it was just.
I wasn't good at sports, Iliked music, writing languages,
and so that's just what we wereinto, and it really was.
(05:52):
In high school, as I wasexploring lots of different
musical paths, I really feltlike this is kind of the only
thing I can see myself doingwith my life, and a lot of
prayer into that.
And the Lord provided a way forme to go to Baylor University,
and so I was actually a fluteperformance major at.
(06:13):
Baylor University.
So my initial musicaltrajectory was classical
performance.
Piet Van Waarde (06:20):
And then, how did you get into the worship
scene?
Amy Hooper (06:22):
Well, my dad and I always loved being part of the
choir at church.
We went to a Baptist church inOklahoma City and, yeah, that
was something that he and I didtogether and so I just I mean, I
loved Jesus and I loved Ireally didn't sing that well at
the time when I trained, but Iloved singing and being part of
(06:45):
the music that was happening inthe church and so it just seemed
like the most natural place forme to express my love for the
Lord and to use that in that way, and it was something my dad
and I did together.
Piet Van Waarde (06:57):
That makes you all special.
Amy Hooper (06:58):
Yeah, I loved that.
Those were really special years.
Piet Van Waarde (07:01):
So, outside of your dad and family, what?
What were some of your earlyinfluences Like?
Who inspired you?
Who did you listen to?
Who kind of helped shape yourmusic?
Amy Hooper (07:12):
Well, I mean lots of classical music because you
know that's what I was choosingto study.
But outside of that, likegrowing up I I loved.
You know it was the 80s, so AmyGrant, michael W Smith, all of
that.
But then also I loved my mom'sBeach Boys records from when she
was a kid, those Beach Boysharmonies Like I mean, come on
(07:34):
you know.
So I loved that.
And then I really wasn't thatsatisfied with the popular music
that was happening at the timethat I was in high school and so
I actually started getting intolistening to classic rock,
which is funny, but like that Ireally dug deep into like
Southern rock and classic rockand that was what I was really
into leading up into college.
(07:56):
And so there was always this,this love of popular song.
You know I'm not talking aboutabout the difference between
secular and sacred, butnon-classical music.
I always had a love of songsand things that had words
attached to them of alldifferent kinds of genres, and
(08:17):
just always really loved thatfrom the start, even long before
I ever started pursuingsongwriting.
Piet Van Waarde (08:25):
You talk about classic rock.
I always tease my kids becauseof course we played a lot of
music in our house growing up.
And next thing I know and thiswas like right at the outset of
iPods and all that, and so thenI would kind of catch my kids
listening to classic rock andthey're like what are you doing,
stealing our music?
(08:46):
It's just good music.
It's just good music.
Amy Hooper (08:49):
Well, and this was like older, you know, than I was
, like you know, I was born inthe 70s but I wasn't listening
to that music in the 70s when itwas happening.
But I just loved all thedifferent layers and textures,
different layers and texturesand yeah, I just I found it more
organic and real than whensynthy type things started to
(09:10):
happen.
I always loved that, just therawness of it.
It's not overproduced, it'skind of like what we're doing
here, like we're not going toedit these things out, like what
happens now is what we got, youknow, and I loved that.
And that's kind of howclassical music is too.
You know, that's long beforerecordings.
(09:31):
That's how people experiencetheir music was they would get
in the room with their musician.
And that moment that you sharewhen the music is being shared,
that's it.
That's the moment.
Piet Van Waarde (09:40):
Yeah, I love that.
That's a great way to describeit.
Okay, so you get on stage andnow you started with choir.
But now you're on stage at alarge church and one of the
things I've and I'm comparingthis to some of the things I've
experienced in life where you'reon a platform, the lights are
on you, everybody's applauding,oh, you're so good, and there's
(10:05):
something very ego-feeding aboutall that, and one of the things
I've watched is that sometimespeople can get into this space
where they start believing it'sall about them and they're the
star of the show.
Quote unquote.
I've had to wrestle with thatat various seasons of my own
life.
Show quote unquote.
(10:26):
I've had to wrestle with thatat various seasons of my own
life, and so I'm curious if youhave A, have you found yourself
trying to navigate some of thatyourself?
Because you don't just performin church, you also perform in
the community, at various venues.
Have you had to wrestle withthat and, if so, how do you kind
of keep yourself in check?
Amy Hooper (10:44):
That's a great question.
Yes, wrestled with it fordecades.
So one of the interestingthings, I think, coming from
classical music, is that,because of what it is,
perfectionism is like such ahuge part of the culture.
I mean such a huge part of theculture.
(11:08):
I mean when it's you might have1000 people audition for one
open spot in a symphony, so youhave to be perfect at the craft
and it's all about being able toperform at that perfect,
perfect level in the moment.
So when you couple that alongwith the attention of the stage,
it's really, really easy tomake it about you.
Oh for sure.
But that's the opposite of whatGod's calling us to as worship
(11:32):
leaders.
And so that dichotomy forced meto really get with the Lord and
examine what are my motives fordoing this.
I think it actually reallyreally helped that I was when I
started singing in the churchenvironment, that I was not a
professional singer, and itactually really helped to be
(11:53):
imperfect and have to learn theskill of being not that great at
it, and yet the point of beingthere was to worship the Lord
and to help.
You know, take the others bythe hand metaphorically and say
come with me and let's worshipthe Lord together.
Right, and so the Lord was justall through my 20s and 30s,
(12:15):
simultaneously killing off thatperfection in me, that
perfectionism, I guess I shouldsay because I was never going to
achieve perfection, Right, thatperfectionism, I guess I should
say, because I was never goingto achieve perfection, right,
but that perfectionism that Ihad learned as a habit in my
profession.
He was killing that off in myministry.
So, it was very humbling, it wasvery hard and it's still
(12:44):
something that I just have toconstantly check.
Um, just have to do a motivecheck all the time.
Piet Van Waarde (12:48):
Yeah.
Amy Hooper (12:48):
Like why are you doing this?
Um, I think one of the bestways to to really have that
heart check is to have people inyour life like good
accountability, um, people whoknow you that well that they can
tell by.
They are watching you on thatstage and they know where your
heart is because they know youthat well, and they'll come to
you afterward and say, uh-uhyeah.
Piet Van Waarde (13:11):
What was that about?
What was that about?
Amy Hooper (13:13):
Yep.
So I really guard thoserelationships very, very closely
.
They're a gift from God to meto help me serve him effectively
.
Piet Van Waarde (13:26):
So does that answer your question?
Yeah, it does, and it promptsanother question that we didn't
really talk about.
But I'm curious if you cananswer, and that is like I think
it's really like I have somepeople in my life that kind of
look to me for that type ofaccountability as well, and one
of the things I find sodifficult is to like be able to
(13:47):
say to somebody hey, somethingfelt off.
And so I'm curious, from theexperiences that you've had with
people who are in that lane inyour life, what are some of the
things that they've done thathelped make it something you
could receive?
Because you know our reactionis like wait, what are you
(14:08):
talking about?
Amy Hooper (14:09):
My heart's you know, yeah, yeah, well, I think just
the long-term relationships.
Actually, I'm thinking.
The first thing that came tomind was a conversation with my
friend, Amanda, who we have beenvery close ever since college,
and it was kind of the flip sideof what we're talking about
(14:31):
here.
And we're talking about whathappens when you get a big head
because you're leading on thestage, right.
Well, the opposite can happen.
It can also.
The attention can make you soself-conscious that you don't
obey the Lord and step out inyour gifting.
And that's still pride.
And I remember a season where Iwas struggling with being bold
enough to obey and Amandaliterally sat me down at dinner
(14:54):
one day and was like who do youthink you are that?
you can tell God no about this,like you were meant to do this
and if you chicken out thenyou're disobeying God.
And she was like I am going tocome for you if you do not step
forward in this.
And I will never forget thatbecause it was kind of the kick
(15:16):
in the pants I needed to getover my self-consciousness on
something and to step out.
And a lot of really good thingshappened because I did it.
But I needed her pushing me.
But we're talking about that inthe context of a relationship
over years and I knew she lovedme and I knew she wasn't just
being pushy or like come on,you're so good it wasn't empty
praise, it was a challenge, andso I really think it's the
(15:38):
context of a relationship thatmakes those conversations
possible.
Piet Van Waarde (15:41):
Awesome, so well said.
Okay, so you're also asongwriter, so you're not only a
performer, but you also writemusic, and that's always
fascinating to me.
I love hearing people's storyabout how that happens.
So when you are in thesongwriting mode, tell me a
little bit about that process.
Like, is it something where youmode?
(16:04):
Tell me a little bit about thatprocess.
Like, is it something where yousit down and say I want to
write some music?
Or are you like in anenvironment and something hits
you and you find yourself saying, oh, I got to write a song
about that.
How does that work?
Amy Hooper (16:13):
for you.
Yes, both when it started it wasmore of a I have feelings that
I need to get out, but now I'mjust so happy that I'm finally
at this point in my life where Ican say like I'm a professional
songwriter.
It's something I dreamed aboutfor a long time and worked
really hard to be at this point,and so now, as a full-time
(16:37):
songwriter, I got to go to workevery day, and so that means you
got to go and you got to writeevery day, whether you feel like
it or not, whether you have anidea or not.
And ideas kind of you know theycome at you randomly and so you
have to find ways to catch themso that when it's time to sit
down and write, then you go andpull an idea from your random
(16:58):
note on your phone or whereveryou like to keep them.
But having those systems inplace to catch the randomness,
but then having the disciplinein place to sit down and
actually work on it and buildsomething every day, and so I
write every day in some way, andyou know, sometimes that
results in a full song andsometimes it's just something
(17:19):
that needs to be deleted.
But, yeah, so songwriting nowlooks a lot different than it
did when I was first starting,because it's a craft that I've
learned the skills and themethods of, and I approach it
like a job now instead of ahobby or just a little side
project.
Piet Van Waarde (17:38):
How'd that transition happen?
Because I think for some people, how did that transition happen
?
Because I think for some people, you know, it remained like, in
my sense is like when I think Ican compare it to like sermon
writing, Like when you have anassignment, you got to get a
teaching ready.
You have to sit down and do it,whether you feel like it or not.
But I get the impression maybeyou can correct me if I'm wrong
(18:05):
on this but I get the impressionthat sometimes with art it's a
little different.
It's like at least theimpression I've gotten is that
people say, well, I have to waitfor the inspiration or I have
to wait for something to hit me.
But you're suggesting that it'sactually the opposite.
Yeah, that comes, but for a lotof songwriters it really is.
You got to just sit down andstart with the blank piece of
paper or the keyboard and juststart hitting the keys.
Amy Hooper (18:26):
Yeah, I think the most prolific long-term
songwriters in the industry arethe ones that show up and write
every single day, and so I thinkthat's really when I made the
switch to thinking do I want todo this as a profession?
Then I had to start thinkingand behaving like a professional
(18:46):
songwriter would.
But it is a lot like sermonwriting, in the sense that you
might have an idea that you wantdesperately to communicate and
you might be able to sit downwith a friend and communicate
that really quickly and have agreat conversation.
But if you're going to presentit in a way that then is going
to be, you know, videoed, cut upinto soundbites, you know, put
(19:10):
into a series with a whole bunchof other similar topics and
themes, then you've got to thinkit through and you've got to
craft it in a way that it'sgoing to have shape and plot in
a way and just make an impact.
It just requires a lot moreform and thought and intent, and
so deadlines can help you getthat done right.
Piet Van Waarde (19:34):
Some days come around with amazing writing.
Amy Hooper (19:35):
Yeah, so deadlines can be really really helpful in
actually finishing things right,but I do think it's a lot like
sermon writing, or I would thinkthat for novelists it's it's a
lot of the same thing you knowthey get plot ideas, but you
can't just write an idea downand call it a book.
You know you've got to flesh itout and and develop everything
and write the dialogue and allthat, so, um.
(19:56):
So I think there's similaritiesthere.
Piet Van Waarde (19:59):
Can you walk us through, like uh, a song maybe
that you've done recently andkind of how that process worked
for you?
Amy Hooper (20:05):
Okay, yeah, let's see, all right.
Well, so here's a song that Iactually released last month I
think it was called Short StoryLong, and I wrote this with my
good friend, chris Biel, and heand I write together a lot and,
honestly, I wouldn't be aworking songwriter right now if
it weren't for Chris Bealbelieving in me.
He was sent by God to help me.
(20:25):
So we had an appointment towrite a song together that day,
and you know, normally when yougo into a co-writing session,
you want to bring several ideas.
You want to have an idea ofwhat you want to write, for you
need some things to chase someyou know, some, some points to
chase.
But he and I've been writingtogether a lot and he's he
(20:48):
really he tells great storiesand things like that.
And so I usually what I can dois just kind of get him talking
and he'll drop some like amazingnugget of wisdom or or a cool
phrase or something that we canbuild a song around.
And so that's exactly whathappened that day.
He came over, he was telling mea story and he said to make a
(21:19):
short story long.
And I was like that's it, we'regoing to write that.
And so then we sat down and wesaid, okay, if that's our hook
for the song, than it shouldhave.
And somebody was, you know, alittle too loyal and they needed
to figure out when to say no.
So then we kind of wrote versesthat were like plot of that.
And then you know, short storylong is kind of the tagline or
the hook.
It's also the title of the song.
That's usually a smart idea.
(21:44):
And then we kind of wrote afollow-up verse that sort of
said okay, now that thisperson's moved on, what does
life look like?
And then we thought, okay,short story long, that kind of
sounds like it could be a cooldriving song, something you want
to roll the window down, and sowe were talking about the vibe
that we wanted for the song.
And then we listened to someother songs that we kind of
liked the feel of and thoughtthis is sort of the same feeling
(22:05):
or vibe that we would want.
You know, if we could put this,our new song, in a playlist,
we'd want these other songsaround it, and so those were all
things that we used to help uscraft the song, and so then we
wrote the lyrics, we wrote themusic, and then you know, do you
have like a preference, likethe lyrics first or the melody
first?
I'm a words person.
So, I usually end up withlyrics first, and I often get
(22:29):
called into co-writes to be thelyricist or to edit someone
else's lyrics into song-ish form.
The challenge for me, then, issometimes to approach it
differently and to start with amelodic idea or start with a
baseline instead and try to getout of a creative rut that way.
Piet Van Waarde (22:54):
But usually for me it's words.
And talking about ruts, do youever find yourself in a rut?
Amy Hooper (22:57):
Yeah, and what helps kick you out of it.
Doing a different approach likethat is really good.
Co-writing is fabulous.
I don't know if you feel likethis whenever you write sermons.
If you get stuck, does it helpfor you to go and sit down and
talk to somebody about it andjust kind of pick?
Piet Van Waarde (23:13):
their brain a little bit.
Yeah, so when I was regularlypreaching, I actually had a team
of people that helped me writethe message.
So I would start off with likehere's the I would call it my
synopsis.
So it was like a paragraph onwhat I felt like I wanted to say
, and here was a scripture thatI wanted to build the message
(23:33):
off of.
And then just like, exactlywhat you just talked about,
what's the plot?
How are you going to get intothat idea?
What are the barriers thatpeople are going to have to that
subject?
And then what's the application?
As you live it, live out theprinciples, and so to have other
people kind of challenge me onthat or give me like, have a
(23:56):
younger person an older personmale, female, of different
ethnicities I mean, having acreative team that helps put it
together was such a gift to me.
I had that gift for 20 years ata church that I served back in
Missouri.
That's awesome.
It was just amazing.
I love that.
Amy Hooper (24:13):
Yeah, really, I think co-writing is that for me,
just to have if I get stuck onsomething.
Actually, just yesterday I hadwritten a song fragment it was.
I felt like it was really strong, but I couldn't get the rest of
the song and I'd been holdingonto it for about two months and
(24:34):
so yesterday I sat down withKyle O'Neill from Shoreline that
you know, and our friend MJRoss and we sat down and wrote
the rest of the song togetherand it, like that that takes
care of the block is becausethen they can listen to it and
they're like, oh, this is good,or oh, you know what, all of a
sudden, if we take this off andwe can add this other thing, and
like they inherently knew whatto do where I was stuck.
(24:56):
And so that's the beauty ofco-writing, do musicians.
Piet Van Waarde (25:00):
One of the things I noticed with other
pastors when it came to sermonwriting and their resistance to
a team was that they felt likeit wouldn't be as authentic if
it was like other people's input, and so they always felt like
the best place to write a sermonwas in the study, alone with
(25:22):
God and your Bible, and notreally inviting other input.
And I'm curious does thathappen with musicians as well,
where they are kind of resistantto like I don't want anybody to
mess with my Totally?
Amy Hooper (25:36):
And I certainly have my songs that I'm like this
one's too personal.
Nobody gets to touch this one,but that's usually how you know
that song's either not evergoing to get released.
It's really not for that, it'sjust for you.
Piet Van Waarde (25:50):
And that's okay , that's.
Amy Hooper (25:52):
You know, songs are great therapy, but also
sometimes it's just that I knowthat this one it might be a
better song if I submitted it toa co-writer, but something
about it I'm not willing tosubmit and so I just have to set
that one aside.
And so I just I just have toset that one aside, and
sometimes they'll make it tobeing released and sometimes
(26:12):
they won't.
Um, but that's okay.
You know not every song is meantfor.
You know the radio, so um, butI do think in general, the ones
that are meant for the radiobenefit from multiple voices
because, multiple people aregoing to listen to it, and so
it's going to hit more hearts ifyou have more people involved
(26:34):
in making it, because it hitseveryone a little bit
differently.
Piet Van Waarde (26:38):
Yeah, and I think too, it's just like it
feels very wise to me that ifyou're going to try and say
something or sing something, ifit's just you, it's going to be
very narrow in terms ofperspective.
It's going to be like your lifeand your things that you value,
but when you bring other voicesinto it, it just broadens.
(26:59):
I have had so many experienceswhere somebody will say, well,
have you considered this?
And it's like no but that's,exactly.
Or even, like you were saying,phrasing like the long story
short.
Just that phrase can open up awhole new way of thinking about
it and gives you like, oh, Ilike that angle.
(27:20):
I want to use that.
Amy Hooper (27:22):
Yeah, yeah, it really really can.
So, yeah, that's one of thebest things about it.
And then like back to thecreative rut thing.
The other thing I was going tosay is that take a walk.
Piet Van Waarde (27:34):
That's the other thing If you're in a
creative rut take a walk.
Yeah, get away from it for abit yeah.
Amy Hooper (27:38):
Yeah, I see that.
I don't know.
It just really seems to help.
Piet Van Waarde (27:42):
So you've been doing it for a while.
How long have you been doing?
Amy Hooper (27:44):
this, um, I've been writing for over 20 years but I
haven't been pursuing it in thelike the public space or like um
, really getting to share songsuntil about a decade ago, coming
up on 10 years from that firstthing and that was, you know,
(28:09):
that was a huge step in thatdirection.
So, and now I have the privilegeof writing with other artists
and seeing them release thingsthat we've co-written together,
and that's really my joy.
It's just, you know, helpingthem take their stories and make
it succeed for them, like Ireally love that.
Piet Van Waarde (28:28):
That's very exciting.
Now, are you more of a like Ilike the creative process of
getting the song written or doyou like the performance side?
Do you have a preference?
Amy Hooper (28:38):
um, I think I enjoy the writing part the most, which
is good because that's how I'mgoing to spend the bulk of my
time.
I actually really loverecording and performing.
I have not done a lot of it, Ijust get to kind of do it
piecemeal.
But I'm only recently an emptynester and so suddenly my life
(28:58):
is very different schedule wise,and I also was on staff at
Shoreline until January and sosuddenly, not, you know, I just
felt like it was time for thatseason to end and so, like I
have a lot more time, so I'masking the Lord what the next
step is.
But I really do love.
My favorite type of performingas a singer, songwriter is like
(29:22):
at a house show or something,with about like 30, 40 people 30
, 40 people and just having thatlike we talked about earlier,
that moment where you share asong and a story and everyone
experiences it together and itjust kind of lives in that space
.
You know, it doesn't have to beon the radio, it doesn't have
(29:42):
to be, you know, on YouTube oranything like that, but there's
something sacred about thatrelationship with the listener
that I really, really love, andso that's my favorite way to
communicate songs of all kinds,ones I've written, you know,
covers or whatever.
Piet Van Waarde (30:00):
Okay, now when you?
Again, this is not something Ithought about asking until now,
but like I thought about askinguntil now.
But in the Christian genrethere seems to be songs that
tend to be in the portfolio ofsongs about God and then more on
the worship side of songs toGod.
(30:22):
Do you find yourself leaningone way or another when you
write, and maybe not even aboutGod, just about life.
Amy Hooper (30:32):
Yeah, I really write songs.
I think that the easiest onesfor me to write would be songs
about life that are somewhatthat have faith as an element or
have scripture somehow woven in, so like a little sneaky
scripture, Jehovah.
Sneaky is what Candy would sayour friend.
(30:56):
So those are the easiest for meto write.
Those are kind of my naturalbent.
But I also love writingdevotional songs and then, like
corporate worship, songs I findreally challenging to write, and
so I'm in a season right nowwhere I am challenging myself to
write more of those.
I find them harder to writebecause they have to be singable
(31:19):
for the average non-musician.
But also it's like we got tofind a way to tell the old old
story in a new, new way, youknow.
Way to, you know, tell the oldold story in a new, new way, you
know.
And so trying not to overuse allthe same phrases and things but
also make it, you know, highlyscriptural, highly biblical, you
(31:39):
know, completely actual worshipto the Lord, you know, focused
on Him.
And so those are some prettynarrow parameters for a song,
and so finding a new way to dothat is really a big challenge,
so, but so the easy ones are the, you know, this is just sort of
my life experience and what'son my heart.
Here it is, you know, butthat's kind of low hanging fruit
(32:00):
, you know.
Piet Van Waarde (32:01):
Okay.
So what would you say to like aperson who is where you were 20
years ago, first kind offlirting with the idea of doing
music or art in some way, buthaving all the hesitations?
Amy Hooper (32:15):
about it.
Piet Van Waarde (32:16):
What advice would you give to them?
Amy Hooper (32:19):
I would say several things.
Number one if God's put it onyour heart, don't try to squelch
it.
Piet Van Waarde (32:31):
Just pray and ask him to show you what to do?
Amy Hooper (32:33):
I tried to get that songwriting thing to go away for
a long time and it wouldn't.
And, um, things started reallyhappening when I finally said
okay, lord, if you want me to dothis, then I'm going to need
some help.
Show me what to do.
And he sent me friends thatmentored me and I know it was
him.
The other thing is Can I campout?
Piet Van Waarde (32:57):
on that point for a minute.
Yeah, go ahead.
Because I think there's such avaluable principle in what you
just described and that is thegift of humility To be able to
say I want to do this, but Iwant to be teachable too.
Like I want to put myself in aposition where I can hear from
others.
I don't want to just likeisolate myself and not, you know
(33:19):
, say I don't need that, youknow, just to be a place of
submission, say, hey, this is agift that I think I may have,
and could you teach me or showme some things.
So I think, yeah, I just wantto put a check mark by that
exclamation point.
Amy Hooper (33:35):
Oh yeah, and absolutely.
And I think as a musician Ihear, oh, you're so talented,
and I know that that's wellmeant, but I honestly, I might
have a little bit of talent, butI don't think that's my asset
as a musician.
That's not my greatest asset.
My greatest asset is mywillingness to learn and that I
(33:58):
love learning, and that's reallythe second point that I would
say is that you need to become astudent of the thing that you
want to learn how to do studentof the thing that you want to
learn how to do.
It's really tempting to thinkof the arts as just feelings
based.
You know, paint what you feel,write what you feel.
Well, that's the starting point, but there's a craft involved
(34:21):
and people who seriously do itas a profession treat it like a
living and they work at it likea living.
And so learn how to do that well, but it does have to start with
that humility, the willingnessto learn and to be a beginner.
You know, before you can getgood at something, you got to be
bad at something, right.
So, but I think that's that'sreally where I was when, when
(34:45):
this all started, and that's theadvice I was receiving from my
friends, like, hey, if you wantto do this, then you need to,
like, apply yourself, you know,read some books, practice
writing every day, you know.
And then, in the point when Ifinally got to go play a song
for somebody who was, you know,being kind and willing to help
(35:06):
me, then I sat down with him andplayed him a song and he's like
, oh, you already know how towrite songs.
You've been really working atthis, haven't you?
And and he was surprised, butthen I was just like so glad
that I had already put all thatwork in before I had that
opportunity, you know.
Piet Van Waarde (35:25):
So where can people find your stuff?
Amy Hooper (35:27):
Anywhere you stream or listen to music, then you
know most of the time people areusing like Apple Music or
Spotify, and so it's really easy.
It's Amy Hooper, like a hulahoop or a basketball hoop, but I
don't do those things, I'm nota big video person.
So I have a little bit of stuffon YouTube, but mostly
streaming.
But also you know I write forother bands as well, and so you
(35:55):
know I write for other bands aswell, and so you know listen to
your local Americana playlistand you might hear something.
Piet Van Waarde (35:57):
Well, this has been so good.
Thank you so much for makingtime to be with me today and
loved hearing the story andloved hearing how you do your do
.
Amy Hooper (36:04):
Thank you.
Piet Van Waarde (36:05):
And I want to thank you all for joining us.
It's been a great having youwith us as well, and so join us
again next week for anotherSidewalk Conversation.
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