**SPECIAL** The Genius of the "AND" with Shaina Zavala | Part 2

**Join us for a special summer series of conversations with Shaina and Piet about the genius of the "and." We are so excited to share this 4-part discussion with you AND for the launch of season 4 of Sidewalk Conversations this August! If you enjoy this episode and want to check out all of the things Piet is working on, head on over to the Piet Van Waarde channel on Youtube.**

We are exploring "the genius of the AND" – the powerful concept of embracing both conventional and alternative approaches to healthcare rather than viewing them as opposing forces. Through personal stories about cancer treatment and childbirth experiences, we examine how breaking down false dichotomies can lead to better, more informed medical decisions.

• The tension between holistic/natural treatments and conventional medicine creates unnecessary division
• Fear often drives medical decision-making, pushing people toward either/or thinking
• Personal experience with cancer treatment reveals the value of drawing from multiple approaches
• Childbirth provides another example of how the medical establishment creates false choices
• Seeking multiple opinions and perspectives leads to better informed consent
• The "genius of the AND" allows patients to benefit from both conventional and alternative approaches

Always seek multiple opinions and gather information from different sources before making important healthcare decisions. This approach will help you get the best care possible rather than limiting yourself to a single perspective.

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Episode Transcript

Piet Van Waarde (00:00):
So we are back again.
I love this If you've beenjoining us or are joining us
right now.
We have been talking about thegenius of the end, that we live
in a world that often putsthings in categories it's either
this or that, and we're talkingabout the genius of the end.
And last, we were talking aboutthis in the medical field, and

(00:21):
so I wanted to kind of start bysaying that one of the tensions
I've felt in this journey withcancer is that there is a group
of people that are very muchoriented around holistic,
natural, non-toxic treatmentsand they look at very
suspiciously at the modernmedical, you know typical

(00:43):
oncology, urology, and the sameis true on the other side.
Yes, they look at these guys,they're wackos, they're just out
for your money.
And I found myself and this hasbeen like experientially true
where I'm like why should wemake that a neither?
Or Can we not say, hey, there'ssome stuff that's valuable over

(01:03):
here and there are some thingsthat I need to take advantage of
here, and I just don'tunderstand why there's such
animosity between those twocircles, because I think the
genius is in the end.

Shaina Zavala (01:16):
Yeah, it's crazy.
I mean I can't even imagine thelevel that you're dealing with
that or have dealt with that.
But even for us, like, so wedecided to do a birthing center,
and that was like you wouldhave thought.
I asked to have my baby bymyself in a field somewhere.
You know what I mean Like, andso you have a bunch of of.

(01:36):
You know, the traditionalmedical field is like, why would
you do that?
It's so dangerous, all thisother stuff.
And then, like you said, on theother side, you know they are so
and both are so quick to leadwith, like the numbers and the
data and the stats.
You know what I mean.
And it was like for me, they'relike, they're going to kill you
.
They're going to kill you, youknow, and it was just like, ah,

(02:09):
and it's overwhelming, you know,and it right, having a baby is
very common.
But then you feel this pressureand it just makes it just, it's
just so, it doesn't have to bethat way.
And so for us it was likefinding a place where, where
they accepted both, and I'm soglad that we were actually able
to find that.
Like I said, I had a reallydifficult pregnancy and so I had
to go see some specialists andthings like that, and so every
time I would go, you know, it'slike almost like a pointing the
finger and it was difficult,until the very end, of being
able to have a respect and againbring those things together and

(02:33):
I just never understood why itcouldn't be both.

Piet Van Waarde (02:36):
And I think one of the reasons why the appeal
of the either or scenario is socompelling to people is because
it's built on fear.
Right, so you don't want this tohappen?
Yeah, so therefore, you shoulddo this, or you don't want that
to happen, so you've got to gohere.
And that fear really plays in.
And in fact, I lead a groupright now of fellow cancer

(02:58):
warriors, and one of the thingswe I mean, we're in week, I
think, 13 right now and one ofthe things we talk regularly
about is how fear is at the coreof so many of the decisions
that people make, like it's notbecause there's some positive
thing that they hope will comeout, it's that, well, I'm going
to do this because I'm afraidthat this other thing might

(03:19):
happen if I don't.
So, whether it's chemo surgery,any number of things, like the
doctor says, if I don't do this,you know, while on the other
hand, it's like, well, wait, Iwant to make decisions that are
more like optimistic andpositive, and I think that's why
the genius of the end is soimportant, because you can say I
want to take advantage of allthe things I know here and all

(03:42):
the things that are available tome here, and that feels a lot
more positive.

Shaina Zavala (03:45):
And it feels really trivial to think about it
this way, but for me it allowsa person to make like almost
like informed consent on mydecision.
I have information from this, Ihave information from this and
this is what I'm choosing to do.
And again, I just don't knowwhy, like that sounds so, like
yeah, that makes sense, and Ijust don't know why it's not
already framed.
Why is it not framed that way?
Why is it just like?

(04:06):
I am, you know, the leadingexpert in this and take what I
say at face value.
You know, and so I know, whatmy husband, martin, when he was
doing a cancer journey with hisfirst wife you know they he was
saying you always go get, youknow, multiple opinions and you
always have to go talk todifferent doctors and the
holistic approach and that's howyou're going to get the best
care.
Because just taking somethingat face value, that fear

(04:28):
component is always going to bebrought in for sure.