May 29, 2025 • 35 mins
Chris Tapken shares his remarkable journey from federal prison to leading a thriving prayer ministry at Austin Christian Fellowship, demonstrating how God transforms our worst moments into our calling. Through authentic stories of desperation and redemption, he reveals how genuine prayer becomes a lifeline rather than a religious obligation.
• Small town roots in Yankton, South Dakota where family and community shaped Chris's early years
• Pursuing success in business became Chris's "identity drug of choice"
• Three life events that got his attention: marriage, infertility struggles, and business collapse
• Receiving God's calling while serving 18 months in federal prison
• Learning prayer through desperation rather than seminary training
• The Prayer Barn's remarkable 1,750+ consecutive daily prayer meetings over 6.5 years
• Creating an environment where prayer feels normal, not "weird" or disconnected
• Bridging the divide between pastors and intercessors in American churches
• Finding "unhurried time" with God as his true north and life message
• How genuine prayer transforms us from obligation to conversation
Check out Candy's powerful song "Unhurried Time" that captures the essence of making space for God in our busy lives.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chris Tapken (00:00):
Well, I can't wait to hear more about the cancer
ministry.
I think there's something tothat.
Piet Van Waarde (00:05):
Well, I started a course actually called
Building Resilience in yourBattle Against Cancer.
It's a 16-week course, so westarted a support group around
that material.
So, they're all every week haslike a six-minute video related
to a different dynamic of likepraying for yourself, talking to
your kids about your cancer howto argue with your doctor, all
those things that you have todeal with, and then the small
(00:29):
group is around that topic.
Chris Tapken (00:30):
That's going to be so good, pete.
Yeah, that's going to help somany people we did our first
session.
Piet Van Waarde (00:36):
We're on week 13 of 15.
Oh wow, it's been so good.
Chris Tapken (00:40):
In fact, they're all saying how are we going to
stop this Right?
Piet Van Waarde (00:46):
We want to stay going.
So what I'm going to do is I'mgoing to take a couple of them
and we're going to make themco-leaders.
Chris Tapken (00:53):
Right, and then multiply it, yeah, and multiply
it, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (01:14):
All right.
Hey, thank you for joining usfor another Sidewalk
Conversations.
I'm Pete Van Ward and I amdelighted that you're here, and
before I introduce my guest, Ijust want to say a thank you to
our sponsor today, which isSidewalk Conversations, the
foundation.
So we have a number of peoplewho actually contribute to this
foundation and they make thisprogram and many of the things
that are associated with itpossible.
(01:34):
So I just want to say a shoutout to the regular contributors
to the foundation.
So thanks, guys, Appreciate it,you make this possible.
Now I want to introduce a goodfriend of mine, chris Tepkin.
Welcome, thank you, Pete?
Chris Tapken (01:49):
Yeah, I've been looking so forward to this man.
Yeah, Thanks for having me.
Piet Van Waarde (01:54):
Oh, I love it, so I got to introduce.
Chris Tapken (01:56):
Chris, this way.
Piet Van Waarde (01:57):
So before we get into your story, I just want
to talk about how meaningfulthe prayer barn has been to me
personally.
Chris Tapken (02:06):
Thank you.
Piet Van Waarde (02:07):
So when I first got diagnosed with cancer, I
started attending the prayerbarn, mostly because I knew
Candy and I loved her worshipstyle.
But the people there, yourministry, the prayers that have
been prayed and you may remember, but I've brought a number of
friends from around the countrywho continue to ask me how's
(02:31):
that prayer?
Chris Tapken (02:32):
barn been going.
Piet Van Waarde (02:33):
I'm like when I'm in town I go.
Chris Tapken (02:35):
Day by day.
Piet Van Waarde (02:37):
And so I just want to say a personal thank you
for what you do there, and Iknow it helps a lot of people.
But we'll get more into that.
Chris Tapken (02:44):
You bet.
Piet Van Waarde (02:50):
So let's go back and talk a little bit about
your story, where you grew up,kind of what were your early
influences and maybe even somethreads from when you were young
that has kind of materializednow later in life.
Chris Tapken (03:00):
I grew up in a small town.
You know something about smalltowns.
Piet Van Waarde (03:03):
Yes, I do.
Chris Tapken (03:04):
Yankton, south Dakota, is my hometown, yeah,
which is a small town on theMissouri River Nebraska South
Dakota border.
So yeah, that was small towns.
I think really shape you, pete.
Piet Van Waarde (03:20):
Yeah, they do.
Chris Tapken (03:22):
My whole family was there cousins, grandparents
so we were a tight-knit group ina small town and you know, as
you look back at your roots,small town shaped me and I'm
really grateful for that.
Piet Van Waarde (03:37):
And outside of the idea of community, was there
something specific thathappened in your growing up
years that you kind of look backat?
That was part of the threadthat led you to where you are
today.
Chris Tapken (03:48):
I think it's family Just being by family.
Growing up same town asgrandparents.
Walking over to mygrandparents' house, Cousins
would stay over at each other'shouse.
We were just involved deeply inour family and that shaped me,
of course.
Everybody was talking aboutyour family too, of course yeah,
everyone knows everyone'sbusiness in a small town.
Piet Van Waarde (04:09):
That's right For sure.
All right, let's kind of speedup a little bit, because there's
so much to your story that Iwant to get into.
So you were headed into lawschool graduated.
Am I right in?
Chris Tapken (04:23):
that I did.
Yeah, you graduated from lawschool, you were going to be an
attorney.
I was went to uh university,Nebraska undergrad.
Go big red, god's favoritefootball team and it used to be.
Piet Van Waarde (04:35):
It used to be yeah.
Chris Tapken (04:36):
We're coming back by stock by stock out there and
uh, uh.
And then went to law school Ihave a family full of lawyers
and so went to law school,graduated and then was going to
be a prosecutor.
My mom was a prosecutor, my dadwas a judge and so I was going
(04:58):
to be a prosecutor and then gotinto the marketplace on a kind
of a really strange right turnkind of thing.
And that was an interestingpart of my story too.
But it's kind of the first time.
Raised in the church too.
(05:18):
In Yankton Trinity LutheranChurch is my roots Baptized
there, confirmation all thestuff Saved in that church.
But you know, pete, when I tookthat job in the marketplace, it
was really the first time whereI chased the things of the world
.
Right, I kind of was unsettledby it.
(05:40):
No one in my group thought thatwas probably like a good idea.
Hint number one, wheneveryone's silent, like I'm
going to do this and I'm likewhat really?
But it was looking back.
It was kind of one of thosedefining things where I chase
culture instead of more of myreligious roots.
Piet Van Waarde (06:04):
And how did that work for you?
Chris Tapken (06:05):
That did not work well, but God over-redeems.
He really does and that's socritical.
We can make messes in life andGod just cleans them up and
turns them into messages, turnsthem into things that are useful
for him and his kingdom, andthat is absolutely what happened
(06:27):
in my life, Pete.
Piet Van Waarde (06:29):
So you're a pastor now, though right, I'm a
pastor now you would have gotlong odds in Las Vegas.
Chris Tapken (06:36):
You just said Chris going to be a pastor.
No way, but yes.
Piet Van Waarde (06:41):
God, how did that transition happen?
But yes, god.
Chris Tapken (06:43):
So how did that transition happen?
So this business was really forme Pete kind of my drug of
choice was identity.
I wanted people to think I wassuccessful because of business,
(07:08):
and so I thought about it allthe time is what I thought about
when I woke up, when I went tobed first thoughts, consuming
thoughts about this business,and God put three things in my
life that really got myattention.
The first was I got married toan Iowa girl there you go yeah.
So my wife and I were told wecouldn't have kids.
So then we started this crazyin vitro process That'll get
your attention.
And then her and I kind of gotsick at the same time, which got
(07:32):
our attention.
And then the third thing, pete,was this business, that was my
identity and I, you know, reallywas my purpose, so to speak
came crashing down and we losteverything.
Oh yes, it's at that point thatthe Lord Like everything, pete
(07:56):
and you know, people hear God indifferent ways yeah, yeah, yeah
.
I heard God in an undeniableway, and what he told me, pete,
was I'm calling you to something.
Now, these were words.
I had no clue what they evenmeant.
I'm calling you to something,but what I'm calling you to
requires such a transformation.
(08:17):
We need to go to this placecalled rock bottom and he signs
off.
I'm like I've got questions,I've got questions, and so for
me and that was over aseven-year period we kind of
went through this transformationprocess.
But then came the day for mewas my rock bottom that the Lord
(08:39):
told me that we were going to,and it was Pete, this day that I
walked into federal prison inThree Rivers, texas.
Yeah the business.
We got prosecuted, I gotcharged for making a false
statement and went to federalprison for 18 months.
So I'm in prison, pete.
(09:01):
Now, this isn't the mostimpressive resume.
The Lord signs back on Sevenyears from when I heard his
voice the first time.
I'm calling you to something.
I'm in prison.
Never forget it, pete.
And I'm in the chapel.
I'm in the Word early in themorning by myself, and I hear
that voice again saying remember, I told you I'm calling you to
(09:24):
something.
I'm calling you to ministry.
I LOL'd.
I'm like no way.
No, I have no pastors in ourfamily.
Like nothing Didn't go toseminary, I'm in prison.
Piet Van Waarde (09:38):
Come on Lord.
Chris Tapken (09:39):
That was my call Pete to ministry Wow.
Piet Van Waarde (09:47):
And was it like really a seven year period of
silence, like you were trying tofigure it out?
Chris Tapken (09:51):
but there was not like a direct word, no, not.
I mean, we became transformedpeople.
Yeah, my wife and I just fellin love with the lord and his
church, his bride and Um, justmy faith came alive, um, so it
was a.
It was an amazing period, hardperiod, but amazing period.
But no, he did not say here'swhat we're doing.
(10:13):
It was a long period of look atwho you've become.
Now I'm calling you to this.
Piet Van Waarde (10:20):
So, um, I'm a pastor as well, and the route
that I took was more like highschool mess up, get saved, go to
seminary.
Yeah, the route to prison islike—.
Chris Tapken (10:35):
It's that black sheet.
It's very appropriate.
Piet Van Waarde (10:39):
I mean.
So I'm guessing that churcheslike if you—did you go to
seminary, you end up going toseminary, no, no, I got hired on
as a church to be a pastor.
They trusted you yes even withthe offering.
Chris Tapken (10:57):
Yeah, I got hired on as a church and I got-.
Piet Van Waarde (11:01):
Did you know somebody?
Chris Tapken (11:03):
No, I got mentored by an old Pentecostal pastor
that had been 50 years and hesaid you're not going to go to
seminary.
Piet Van Waarde (11:14):
Okay.
Chris Tapken (11:15):
You're going to sit under me and I'm going to
train you on real life and thething that he from day one he
just pounded into me.
He said you're going to be aman of prayer, you're going to
lead a praying church.
And he just would not.
Into me he said you're going tobe a man of prayer, you're
going to lead a praying church,and he just would not let go of
that.
For me.
And, yeah, I owe a lot to himmentorship, but that's who
trained me up.
In addition to where you know,my pastor, where I work at Will,
(11:40):
yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (11:40):
Will Davis.
Yeah, that is the guy to blamethat hired me, but Will, yeah,
will Davis.
Chris Tapken (11:43):
Yeah, that is the guy to blame that hired me, but
Will?
I owe so much to Will.
He's a pastor that really tooka chance on me and to him it
wasn't any chance at all,because he saw the call in my
life.
He's like you're called toministry.
Piet Van Waarde (11:57):
Such a great guy.
He's amazing.
He's amazing, all right, and sothat's I mean, like when you
think about prayer.
Chris Tapken (12:06):
Yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (12:08):
Most pastors will tell you oh yeah, of course
you know, prayer's an importantthing.
Chris Tapken (12:12):
Right.
Piet Van Waarde (12:12):
But then they'll spend a lion's share of
their time doing visitation andpreaching.
Chris Tapken (12:18):
Donor meetings.
Piet Van Waarde (12:21):
But one of the things that is so impressive to
me about the prayer barn is thatthe campus is at the highest
point in Austin.
So, the land is the highestland in Austin, and then at the
highest point of your land sitsthe prayer barn right, isn't
that crazy, I love that and noneof it was planned.
Chris Tapken (12:42):
We call it a barn because it used to be a barn and
it used to be a farm, and noneof it was planned.
It used to.
We call it a barn because itused to be a barn and it used to
be a farm.
And when ACF bought theproperty, they told Will, do you
realize they had the geographyand all that?
Do you realize this is thehighest point in Austin?
No clue, okay, and then, on thehighest point, as you said, of
the highest point in Austin, itwas this barn, and now it is a
(13:02):
place of prayer.
So can't make that stuff up.
Piet Van Waarde (13:06):
Can't make that stuff up and you do it like
every day right, we pray.
Chris Tapken (13:09):
We're now 1,750 corporate prayer meetings.
We pray every day.
We started six and a half yearsago of a daily prayer meeting
from 12 to 1, where we stopeverything and we just pray and
intercede.
And we're now six and a halfyears into it, which is crazy.
But can I go back and touch onone thing I think it'll be
(13:30):
helpful is people ask me all thetime how'd you learn to?
You know where do you pray?
Because a lot of pastors, theyweren't taught.
That Seminary doesn't have acourse on prayer.
So you, and how did you getthis?
How is do you learn how to pray?
And it came from desperation.
It came from my story where Ihad lost all other options.
(13:54):
I had nothing else and it wasin that place, pete, that I
really learned how to pray.
When you have no other options,it'll teach you to pray.
Piet Van Waarde (14:05):
So it's such important.
Chris Tapken (14:06):
And in your ministry.
With cancer they get it.
Cancer patients get it.
Like desperation is a wonderfulteacher for prayer.
Piet Van Waarde (14:16):
So I want to just kind of tease that out a
little bit because, in myexperience and I'll just make it
about me at this point, but inmy experience I have had seasons
where I was in desperation andprayer became the focal point
and I was really serious aboutit.
And then things start to workout and then it kind of goes
into the background of yourheart and life.
(14:37):
Um, how have you been able tomaintain the the desperation
vibe in prayer, even when thingshave now obviously worked out a
lot better for you?
Chris Tapken (14:51):
That's such a great question, and a lot of it
is.
You just have to ask the Lord.
The Holy Spirit's the one thatcan do that.
There's a lot of days, realtalk.
I don't want to pray.
Piet Van Waarde (15:05):
Well, you said that last night.
Did I really?
You said I'm the example.
Chris Tapken (15:06):
I don't want to pray.
Well, you said that last night,Did I really?
Piet Van Waarde (15:07):
You said I'm the example I don't want to be.
Chris Tapken (15:09):
Yeah, some of the stuff that comes out of my mouth
.
At least it's real.
Piet Van Waarde (15:17):
Yeah, no, I love it.
It's part of why I go.
Chris Tapken (15:19):
Yeah, there's a lot of days that I don't want to
really do the discipline ofprayer, but I do want to talk to
Jesus.
Piet Van Waarde (15:29):
I love that distinction.
Chris Tapken (15:38):
Yeah, and when we make prayer about a duty or a
religious exercise or somethingI should do because I'm a
Christian, that can wane, butwhen you make it all about Jesus
, I just want to talk to him, Ijust want to talk to him, and
that's called prayer, yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (15:50):
I felt a great conviction about prayer probably
about six years ago, about ayear before my cancer diagnosis.
Actually, I think it was partof God's prep work, because I
found myself in that sameposition where I realized that I
was pastoring people and I havea passion for that.
(16:11):
I feel gifted in that area, incommunication and preaching,
teaching.
But my personal prayer lifelike I could pray at a service
Sure, if somebody asked me topray over something or be at a
hospital, I could do that.
To pray over something or be ata hospital, I could do that.
But when I looked at my ownpersonal prayer life I felt like
man.
It is so shallow.
(16:33):
It's so weak and so I felt likeman God was going to really take
me through a process, and partof my fear was that I would have
to become one of these peoplethat got up at early morning
hours and pray for an hour.
And the reason I love yourdistinction is because when you
(16:53):
can kind of shift it to sayingit's more than just the process
of including it in your schedule.
Chris Tapken (17:00):
Yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (17:01):
It's really more about making it part of
your life and I know that soundsso cliche, about making it part
of your life, and I know thatsounds so cliche but if you can
get to that place where you havea conversation with the Lord
through the day, and then whenyou have those focus times of
prayer, it's just like I like tothink of it in terms of
marriage so my wife and I willtext during the day, we'll just
(17:21):
have a conversation that way.
But then there comes the timeat the end of the day where he's
like okay, so really, how wasyour day?
And I feel like that's part ofwhat prayer meetings are.
It's like that time where youstop and you say, hey, lord,
what's going on with you?
Chris Tapken (17:34):
Is that how it works for you?
It absolutely is.
We have that time where wereally shift into intercession,
which is a 75 cent church word,but intercession really is
that's our prayer meeting andthat what we feel that call on
us, pete, is.
I describe intercession as thisit's placing one hand on people
(17:55):
or places or things and theother hand on God and you're
bridging that gap.
For example, we prayed today atnoon that there is people in
our church that are so hurting,they're in such despair or
hopelessness or sickness thatthey can't even pray.
(18:16):
Our job as intercessors is tokick in saying God, we're going
to place one hand on them andone hand on you, and we're their
prayer warriors, we're theirprayers, we're going to bridge
that gap.
So that's a wonderfulassignment, a hard assignment,
but it's a really beautifulassignment.
(18:36):
But then, outside of that, toyour point, pray unceasing.
The Word says.
Well, what's that mean?
To me it's having conversationswith Jesus as we go about our
day.
Piet Van Waarde (18:49):
Yeah, I love that.
And so what are like when youthink of a prayer meeting?
I've been to them, so I think Iknow a little bit about this,
what you would say.
But just for those who may belistening, Sure, what is your
like?
What's your thought about?
Like, we want to try and createthis environment where
intercession can happen, so youhave some worship and then you
move into a season ofintercession.
(19:10):
Is there something that you doin your planning that will help
guide the experience, or do youjust do free-flowing?
Chris Tapken (19:19):
Free-flowing Planning, I think, is very
overrated in prayer ministries,because I think the Holy Spirit
has a lot to say about prayermeetings.
So we learned over the courseof doing this so many times that
our best prayer meetings, Ithink, are ones where we're
(19:39):
really just listening to theSpirit and we're agreeing with
each other but most importantly,pete, we're agreeing what's on
His heart, and that requirespeople that can hear the Lord
and are listening.
So you'll hear a theme come upand we try to stick with that
theme of okay, the Holy Spirit'stalking to us about Israel,
(20:03):
we're just going to stay on thattheme until he's done, and
that's the way we try to rollwith that.
Piet Van Waarde (20:11):
One of the things I've appreciated about
the prayer barn is that and Ihope you know what I mean by
this but they're normal people.
Yes, like in prayer meetingsthat I've been to in other
places at other times in my life.
Part of my resistance was thatthere was kind of a strangeness
about it.
It felt very woo-woo.
(20:33):
Let's call it what it is weird,yeah.
So how have you navigated it sothat it doesn't catch that
flavor?
Chris Tapken (20:43):
That is so hard to do because you're so right,
pete, and that's why mostpastors resist it, because it
gets weird, and we've tried tostay away from the weirdness as
much as we possibly can, and alot of it is.
We welcome people who are messy.
(21:05):
Just come in If you're hurting,if you're messy, if you just
come, and that tends to keep theweirdness away when you get
normal people that are therewith a real issue.
For example, we had a couplegirls in today that they really
needed God to show up for themfinancially, just as God is
(21:28):
provider.
Their finances were just in awreck and a mess and they were
just as honest and open and real.
As you could be just saying wedon't know what to do.
We got bills to play and we'refinancially really really
hurting.
We don't know where else to go,what else to do, we're
financially really reallyhurting, we don't know where
(21:49):
else to go, what else to do?
Piet Van Waarde (21:50):
That tends to keep the weirdness away when you
have real people that Well, andI think you guys model it, you
and Candy do such a great job ofthat.
Yeah, last night again, like wewere just saying, it's like hey
, sometimes I don't feel likebeing here and I think when
people are that raw and candid,it kind of gives people
permission.
Oh, like I don't have to havethe spiritual language, I don't
have to talk in a weird way.
Chris Tapken (22:12):
I don't think that's Jesus.
When I read scripture he wasjust the most attractive, went
to dinners, weddings, and wasjust this guy that people wanted
to be around.
He didn't use this crazylanguage, but somehow over the
(22:37):
years especially in prayerministries, pete, it's gotten
weird in a lot of places.
That's just the reality of it,and so churches get scared of
that.
And if that, I don't want that,but it doesn't need to be.
It really doesn't, and so we do, and I pray for that a lot, and
just as the leader of it.
Lord, protect us, pleaseprotect us.
It doesn't need to be weird.
(22:59):
I don't want it weird.
You don't want it weird.
Let's not go there.
Piet Van Waarde (23:04):
So we were talking a little bit before we
went on the air, about atransition that's happening in
your church.
Chris Tapken (23:09):
Yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (23:10):
And so when you think about the prayer ministry
moving forward, sometimes whenthere's a transition, that can
be like a little unsettling.
Chris Tapken (23:19):
Yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (23:19):
But you were saying hey, no, we are committed
to this, we're doing this.
What is the next five, 10 years?
Look like as best you know.
Chris Tapken (23:29):
So again I owe so much to Will Will Davis Jr.
That is a man of prayer, he's apastor of prayer and he really
went after a praying church andtried a couple times and it
didn't work out so well, butit's stuck now and that's in his
heart and that's in our DNA asa church at Austin Christian
(23:54):
Fellowship, and his son-in-lawis our next senior pastor,
Kenton Boone, and he getsinstalled this Sunday and Kenton
is a man of prayer and soKenton loves the prayer barn and
is in there all the time.
So really, prayer ministriescan't go any higher than the
pastor.
Piet Van Waarde (24:16):
I think that's so true, that is so true.
Chris Tapken (24:19):
And so to your point.
Barna says the average USpastor spends less than four
minutes in prayer.
Kind of hard to have a prayerministry if the pastor's not
modeling that.
So I've been blessed andfortunate.
Where Will's just a man, apastor of prayer.
He loves prayer and now Kentonwill follow.
(24:40):
And so we would love where'sthe next five years?
I tell our team this all thetime.
If we can do what we're doingover the next five years, we'll
be in great shape.
Statistically we're a prettyrare heir, pete.
There's the experts Mostchurches don't have.
If you have a prayer ministryover a year in a church,
(25:02):
corporate prayer ministry that'sa long time.
It's almost never heard of tohave one over four years long,
that's consistent.
They're going.
Piet Van Waarde (25:11):
So we're six and a half going on that
legitimately a prayer meeting.
Not like talking about prayer,we have a corporate prayer
meeting and there's praying.
Chris Tapken (25:20):
that's going on.
Yes, yes.
Yeah, so we're in pretty rareair and that's all grace, that's
all.
God put the call on thisparticular church to be a house
of prayer and to be known forthat and the DNA of it.
So if we do this, keep onkeeping on.
(25:41):
I'd be extremely grateful.
Piet Van Waarde (25:43):
Now I want to just dig in a little bit on this
prayer idea, because mostpeople, most pastors especially,
would say you know, a prayer isessential.
We need to have a prayingchurch.
What is it that you think keepspeople from actually doing it?
Chris Tapken (26:02):
I think there is a great divide in Western church.
It doesn't happen so much inthird world.
You go in the mission field.
They don't have this problem.
But we, in particular the US,we have this problem and I'm
going to put it as plainly as Ican Pete.
You'll go and talk about it.
There is a great divide betweenpastors and intercessors or
(26:24):
people that pray in thecongregation.
There's a great divide betweenpastors and intercessors or
people that pray in thecongregation.
There's a great divide, kind oflike oil and water.
Piet Van Waarde (26:36):
Is it personality driven?
Do you think?
I think it's.
Chris Tapken (26:42):
Intercessors get frustrated that most churches
and most pastors don't valuethem.
Maybe, like other ministries,they're not resourced.
They're kind of like, yeah,here's your two chairs in the
corner, Go over there and you'remy prayer team, kind of thing,
and so they get frustrated.
And then it's the weird partthat we talked about Pastors are
(27:06):
kind of like you got a word forme.
I don't know about you, youknow that sort of thing.
So there's been a really bigdivide, I think in the US church
between people of prayer,intercessors and pastors.
Will will tell you that he hadthat for a while at church and
(27:28):
in his pastoring over fourdecades and he said his greatest
blessing was he became friendswith the intercessors.
They're like his best friendsnow in the church.
Piet Van Waarde (27:36):
Yeah, that's great, and that's where I
totally see that, though.
It makes total sense to me.
Yeah, yeah.
Chris Tapken (27:41):
But you've got to Pastors got to kind of break
through that, get pastthemselves, get past the
weirdness, accept a word, allthat kind of stuff and what you
find is the hearts get connectedwhen that happens in churches.
Oh man.
Piet Van Waarde (27:57):
And I would say too as a pastor who's had to
kind of process some of that too.
It would be great forintercessors to also start by
saying no, seriously, I am foryour success, I don't have
another agenda.
I'm not like praying over youso that you do X, y and Z, if
(28:18):
they can get to a place where,like, hey, I love you, I want to
follow you.
I want to be on your team andthen you know kind of earn the
trust Absolutely.
Chris Tapken (28:29):
You're spot on where they just kind of start
running and the pastor's like Idon't even chill out, I don't
know you I don't know you andwhat's his word?
And all this kind of stuff.
But that is such a great point,pete, that intercessors need to
.
Piet Van Waarde (28:47):
Let me just pray, let me love on my pastor,
let me encourage them, and overtime, which is, you know, it's
the same thing with any otherministry, really, when you think
about it, I've had youthpastors where I'm wondering
what's their real agenda.
Music leaders so it happens inevery facet of the church.
But I think most of the time,and maybe it's partly conviction
(29:07):
Pastors are probably convictedabout their own carelessness.
Chris Tapken (29:11):
They are Absolutely.
And what is this person hearingfrom the Lord and all?
Piet Van Waarde (29:15):
this kind of stuff.
Chris Tapken (29:16):
So the churches that I've seen Pete firsthand,
including our own at ACF, wherethere's a love and agreement and
unity between pastors andintercessors sky's the limit on
that church.
Yeah, that church is healthyand amazing.
Yeah, but you're right, that'smy sense in the US church, yeah,
(29:40):
so when you were pastoring,tell me how you dealt with those
people of prayer, us, us people.
I'm in both camps, I'm a pastorand an assessor.
Piet Van Waarde (29:53):
Well, I would have to say that I was not great
at it.
I was one of those that was alittle bit nervous.
So I went to Oral RobertsUniversity and I saw a lot of
weird things at ORU and so whenI left ORU and went into the
ministry, and so when I left ORUand went into the ministry, I
more or less kind of backed offof the whole charismatic thing
(30:18):
and felt nervous about it.
And so there were some peoplethat you know, looking back I
regret because I knew they weresincere, but because of my own
baggage I was not reallyfriendly with them.
And it was really in this lastseason of my life, last maybe 10
(30:42):
years of my life, where I had ahard departure from the church
that I was pastoring for a longtime, run into a cancer
diagnosis, and I wouldn't callit like my low of lows, but
there were a lot ofcomplications and difficulties.
And the people that were themost gracious to me you can get
emotional about this, but thepeople that were the most
gracious to me were prayerpeople.
Chris Tapken (30:59):
Amazing, yeah, yeah.
So I think part of it is.
Piet Van Waarde (31:05):
It's shifted, I get it, I get it.
Chris Tapken (31:10):
It's when you connect with god's heart.
For people, um, that's thespecial sauce, so to speak, and
it really.
I was telling those two girlsthat came in today, um, for for
financial provision prayer, andI just said, look, this is going
to be weird, but if you stickwith it it'll become not weird.
(31:33):
And you've had experiences atthe prayer bar where wait a
minute, what?
And then all of a sudden itbecomes not so weird.
Right, and then it becomesthat's a place where I kind of
want to go.
Piet Van Waarde (31:43):
Yes.
Chris Tapken (31:44):
Because the people are pretty encouraging there.
Piet Van Waarde (31:46):
Yes, yes, yes, and some great people love
people, All right, so one Ialways like to ask this as the
kind of last question yeah, whatlike if you had a life message
or something that kind of reallyserves as the true north for
you guiding principle?
Chris Tapken (32:06):
what is that for you?
Oh, that's awesome, pete, andit's really easy to answer,
because it's not from me.
Oh, that's awesome, pete, andit's really easy to answer
because it's not from me.
The Lord gave me, I want to say, six years ago-ish.
You're going to define yourministry, and not only that, but
your life, by two wordsUnhurried time.
(32:32):
Unhurried time, unhurried timewith me, that's what.
And so I came back from Houston.
I said Candy, who's our worshipleader in the barn, and she's
my wingman and great friend ofyours too, and terrific worship
leader and so anointed and sopowerful and an awesome
(32:53):
singer-songwriter.
Yeah, oh, my goodness.
They said Candy.
God gave me like two words anda week later she goes, got a
song.
I've heard that song.
That's where it came from.
I got to tell you this storyreal quick.
Piet Van Waarde (33:05):
Yeah, so I was asked to speak at a men's
ministry event and I waswrestling with how to do the end
of the service and that songcame to mind.
Really.
Chris Tapken (33:20):
Yes.
Piet Van Waarde (33:21):
And so I had everybody, just like okay, now
we're going to practice, becausewe were talking about making
space for God, and we're goingto do this right now, not like
tomorrow, when you're in yourlike, right now we're going to
create cause it's a littlelonger song, yes, and so it's
like you know normally whenyou're like three or four
minutes into a song you're readyfor the thing to wrap up.
But the song itself is exactlythe point right.
Chris Tapken (33:45):
That's where it came from, and Candy just nailed
it, yeah, and she grew up likea week.
It's like how do you do that?
But it's so on point, it's just.
But that's my true north,that's my calling as not only a
pastor but just a man.
And guess what?
When I do that, I'm a betterhusband, better dad, better
(34:08):
civic human being when, I spendmy unhurried time with God, so,
but that's that's really my trueNorth.
Piet Van Waarde (34:15):
I love it those words.
You know what.
We're going to put that song inthe notes for the podcast.
I think people would love it.
Chris Tapken (34:20):
They're going to love it.
Piet Van Waarde (34:21):
Yeah.
Chris Tapken (34:21):
It's a great song, thank you, Candy.
Piet Van Waarde (34:24):
Well, thank you so much, chris.
I know you're super busy, sothank you for coming out.
Chris Tapken (34:30):
It's been awesome to pray with you, to see your
journey to walk with, to justsee how you minister to people,
how you love people, how youencourage people, how you pastor
people Been a great joy.
So thank you for the depositsthat you've made in our lives
too.
Oh my pleasure.
Piet Van Waarde (34:53):
And thank you for joining us for another
Sidewalk Conversations and we'llsee you next time.
Well, I can't wait to hear more about the cancer
ministry.
I think there's something tothat.
Piet Van Waarde (00:05):
Well, I started a course actually called
Building Resilience in yourBattle Against Cancer.
It's a 16-week course, so westarted a support group around
that material.
So, they're all every week haslike a six-minute video related
to a different dynamic of likepraying for yourself, talking to
your kids about your cancer howto argue with your doctor, all
those things that you have todeal with, and then the small
(00:29):
group is around that topic.
Chris Tapken (00:30):
That's going to be so good, pete.
Yeah, that's going to help somany people we did our first
session.
Piet Van Waarde (00:36):
We're on week 13 of 15.
Oh wow, it's been so good.
Chris Tapken (00:40):
In fact, they're all saying how are we going to
stop this Right?
Piet Van Waarde (00:46):
We want to stay going.
So what I'm going to do is I'mgoing to take a couple of them
and we're going to make themco-leaders.
Chris Tapken (00:53):
Right, and then multiply it, yeah, and multiply
it, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (01:14):
All right.
Hey, thank you for joining usfor another Sidewalk
Conversations.
I'm Pete Van Ward and I amdelighted that you're here, and
before I introduce my guest, Ijust want to say a thank you to
our sponsor today, which isSidewalk Conversations, the
foundation.
So we have a number of peoplewho actually contribute to this
foundation and they make thisprogram and many of the things
that are associated with itpossible.
(01:34):
So I just want to say a shoutout to the regular contributors
to the foundation.
So thanks, guys, Appreciate it,you make this possible.
Now I want to introduce a goodfriend of mine, chris Tepkin.
Welcome, thank you, Pete?
Chris Tapken (01:49):
Yeah, I've been looking so forward to this man.
Yeah, Thanks for having me.
Piet Van Waarde (01:54):
Oh, I love it, so I got to introduce.
Chris Tapken (01:56):
Chris, this way.
Piet Van Waarde (01:57):
So before we get into your story, I just want
to talk about how meaningfulthe prayer barn has been to me
personally.
Chris Tapken (02:06):
Thank you.
Piet Van Waarde (02:07):
So when I first got diagnosed with cancer, I
started attending the prayerbarn, mostly because I knew
Candy and I loved her worshipstyle.
But the people there, yourministry, the prayers that have
been prayed and you may remember, but I've brought a number of
friends from around the countrywho continue to ask me how's
(02:31):
that prayer?
Chris Tapken (02:32):
barn been going.
Piet Van Waarde (02:33):
I'm like when I'm in town I go.
Chris Tapken (02:35):
Day by day.
Piet Van Waarde (02:37):
And so I just want to say a personal thank you
for what you do there, and Iknow it helps a lot of people.
But we'll get more into that.
Chris Tapken (02:44):
You bet.
Piet Van Waarde (02:50):
So let's go back and talk a little bit about
your story, where you grew up,kind of what were your early
influences and maybe even somethreads from when you were young
that has kind of materializednow later in life.
Chris Tapken (03:00):
I grew up in a small town.
You know something about smalltowns.
Piet Van Waarde (03:03):
Yes, I do.
Chris Tapken (03:04):
Yankton, south Dakota, is my hometown, yeah,
which is a small town on theMissouri River Nebraska South
Dakota border.
So yeah, that was small towns.
I think really shape you, pete.
Piet Van Waarde (03:20):
Yeah, they do.
Chris Tapken (03:22):
My whole family was there cousins, grandparents
so we were a tight-knit group ina small town and you know, as
you look back at your roots,small town shaped me and I'm
really grateful for that.
Piet Van Waarde (03:37):
And outside of the idea of community, was there
something specific thathappened in your growing up
years that you kind of look backat?
That was part of the threadthat led you to where you are
today.
Chris Tapken (03:48):
I think it's family Just being by family.
Growing up same town asgrandparents.
Walking over to mygrandparents' house, Cousins
would stay over at each other'shouse.
We were just involved deeply inour family and that shaped me,
of course.
Everybody was talking aboutyour family too, of course yeah,
everyone knows everyone'sbusiness in a small town.
Piet Van Waarde (04:09):
That's right For sure.
All right, let's kind of speedup a little bit, because there's
so much to your story that Iwant to get into.
So you were headed into lawschool graduated.
Am I right in?
Chris Tapken (04:23):
that I did.
Yeah, you graduated from lawschool, you were going to be an
attorney.
I was went to uh university,Nebraska undergrad.
Go big red, god's favoritefootball team and it used to be.
Piet Van Waarde (04:35):
It used to be yeah.
Chris Tapken (04:36):
We're coming back by stock by stock out there and
uh, uh.
And then went to law school Ihave a family full of lawyers
and so went to law school,graduated and then was going to
be a prosecutor.
My mom was a prosecutor, my dadwas a judge and so I was going
(04:58):
to be a prosecutor and then gotinto the marketplace on a kind
of a really strange right turnkind of thing.
And that was an interestingpart of my story too.
But it's kind of the first time.
Raised in the church too.
(05:18):
In Yankton Trinity LutheranChurch is my roots Baptized
there, confirmation all thestuff Saved in that church.
But you know, pete, when I tookthat job in the marketplace, it
was really the first time whereI chased the things of the world
.
Right, I kind of was unsettledby it.
(05:40):
No one in my group thought thatwas probably like a good idea.
Hint number one, wheneveryone's silent, like I'm
going to do this and I'm likewhat really?
But it was looking back.
It was kind of one of thosedefining things where I chase
culture instead of more of myreligious roots.
Piet Van Waarde (06:04):
And how did that work for you?
Chris Tapken (06:05):
That did not work well, but God over-redeems.
He really does and that's socritical.
We can make messes in life andGod just cleans them up and
turns them into messages, turnsthem into things that are useful
for him and his kingdom, andthat is absolutely what happened
(06:27):
in my life, Pete.
Piet Van Waarde (06:29):
So you're a pastor now, though right, I'm a
pastor now you would have gotlong odds in Las Vegas.
Chris Tapken (06:36):
You just said Chris going to be a pastor.
No way, but yes.
Piet Van Waarde (06:41):
God, how did that transition happen?
But yes, god.
Chris Tapken (06:43):
So how did that transition happen?
So this business was really forme Pete kind of my drug of
choice was identity.
I wanted people to think I wassuccessful because of business,
(07:08):
and so I thought about it allthe time is what I thought about
when I woke up, when I went tobed first thoughts, consuming
thoughts about this business,and God put three things in my
life that really got myattention.
The first was I got married toan Iowa girl there you go yeah.
So my wife and I were told wecouldn't have kids.
So then we started this crazyin vitro process That'll get
your attention.
And then her and I kind of gotsick at the same time, which got
(07:32):
our attention.
And then the third thing, pete,was this business, that was my
identity and I, you know, reallywas my purpose, so to speak
came crashing down and we losteverything.
Oh yes, it's at that point thatthe Lord Like everything, pete
(07:56):
and you know, people hear God indifferent ways yeah, yeah, yeah
.
I heard God in an undeniableway, and what he told me, pete,
was I'm calling you to something.
Now, these were words.
I had no clue what they evenmeant.
I'm calling you to something,but what I'm calling you to
requires such a transformation.
(08:17):
We need to go to this placecalled rock bottom and he signs
off.
I'm like I've got questions,I've got questions, and so for
me and that was over aseven-year period we kind of
went through this transformationprocess.
But then came the day for mewas my rock bottom that the Lord
(08:39):
told me that we were going to,and it was Pete, this day that I
walked into federal prison inThree Rivers, texas.
Yeah the business.
We got prosecuted, I gotcharged for making a false
statement and went to federalprison for 18 months.
So I'm in prison, pete.
(09:01):
Now, this isn't the mostimpressive resume.
The Lord signs back on Sevenyears from when I heard his
voice the first time.
I'm calling you to something.
I'm in prison.
Never forget it, pete.
And I'm in the chapel.
I'm in the Word early in themorning by myself, and I hear
that voice again saying remember, I told you I'm calling you to
(09:24):
something.
I'm calling you to ministry.
I LOL'd.
I'm like no way.
No, I have no pastors in ourfamily.
Like nothing Didn't go toseminary, I'm in prison.
Piet Van Waarde (09:38):
Come on Lord.
Chris Tapken (09:39):
That was my call Pete to ministry Wow.
Piet Van Waarde (09:47):
And was it like really a seven year period of
silence, like you were trying tofigure it out?
Chris Tapken (09:51):
but there was not like a direct word, no, not.
I mean, we became transformedpeople.
Yeah, my wife and I just fellin love with the lord and his
church, his bride and Um, justmy faith came alive, um, so it
was a.
It was an amazing period, hardperiod, but amazing period.
But no, he did not say here'swhat we're doing.
(10:13):
It was a long period of look atwho you've become.
Now I'm calling you to this.
Piet Van Waarde (10:20):
So, um, I'm a pastor as well, and the route
that I took was more like highschool mess up, get saved, go to
seminary.
Yeah, the route to prison islike—.
Chris Tapken (10:35):
It's that black sheet.
It's very appropriate.
Piet Van Waarde (10:39):
I mean.
So I'm guessing that churcheslike if you—did you go to
seminary, you end up going toseminary, no, no, I got hired on
as a church to be a pastor.
They trusted you yes even withthe offering.
Chris Tapken (10:57):
Yeah, I got hired on as a church and I got-.
Piet Van Waarde (11:01):
Did you know somebody?
Chris Tapken (11:03):
No, I got mentored by an old Pentecostal pastor
that had been 50 years and hesaid you're not going to go to
seminary.
Piet Van Waarde (11:14):
Okay.
Chris Tapken (11:15):
You're going to sit under me and I'm going to
train you on real life and thething that he from day one he
just pounded into me.
He said you're going to be aman of prayer, you're going to
lead a praying church.
And he just would not.
Into me he said you're going tobe a man of prayer, you're
going to lead a praying church,and he just would not let go of
that.
For me.
And, yeah, I owe a lot to himmentorship, but that's who
trained me up.
In addition to where you know,my pastor, where I work at Will,
(11:40):
yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (11:40):
Will Davis.
Yeah, that is the guy to blamethat hired me, but Will, yeah,
will Davis.
Chris Tapken (11:43):
Yeah, that is the guy to blame that hired me, but
Will?
I owe so much to Will.
He's a pastor that really tooka chance on me and to him it
wasn't any chance at all,because he saw the call in my
life.
He's like you're called toministry.
Piet Van Waarde (11:57):
Such a great guy.
He's amazing.
He's amazing, all right, and sothat's I mean, like when you
think about prayer.
Chris Tapken (12:06):
Yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (12:08):
Most pastors will tell you oh yeah, of course
you know, prayer's an importantthing.
Chris Tapken (12:12):
Right.
Piet Van Waarde (12:12):
But then they'll spend a lion's share of
their time doing visitation andpreaching.
Chris Tapken (12:18):
Donor meetings.
Piet Van Waarde (12:21):
But one of the things that is so impressive to
me about the prayer barn is thatthe campus is at the highest
point in Austin.
So, the land is the highestland in Austin, and then at the
highest point of your land sitsthe prayer barn right, isn't
that crazy, I love that and noneof it was planned.
Chris Tapken (12:42):
We call it a barn because it used to be a barn and
it used to be a farm, and noneof it was planned.
It used to.
We call it a barn because itused to be a barn and it used to
be a farm.
And when ACF bought theproperty, they told Will, do you
realize they had the geographyand all that?
Do you realize this is thehighest point in Austin?
No clue, okay, and then, on thehighest point, as you said, of
the highest point in Austin, itwas this barn, and now it is a
(13:02):
place of prayer.
So can't make that stuff up.
Piet Van Waarde (13:06):
Can't make that stuff up and you do it like
every day right, we pray.
Chris Tapken (13:09):
We're now 1,750 corporate prayer meetings.
We pray every day.
We started six and a half yearsago of a daily prayer meeting
from 12 to 1, where we stopeverything and we just pray and
intercede.
And we're now six and a halfyears into it, which is crazy.
But can I go back and touch onone thing I think it'll be
(13:30):
helpful is people ask me all thetime how'd you learn to?
You know where do you pray?
Because a lot of pastors, theyweren't taught.
That Seminary doesn't have acourse on prayer.
So you, and how did you getthis?
How is do you learn how to pray?
And it came from desperation.
It came from my story where Ihad lost all other options.
(13:54):
I had nothing else and it wasin that place, pete, that I
really learned how to pray.
When you have no other options,it'll teach you to pray.
Piet Van Waarde (14:05):
So it's such important.
Chris Tapken (14:06):
And in your ministry.
With cancer they get it.
Cancer patients get it.
Like desperation is a wonderfulteacher for prayer.
Piet Van Waarde (14:16):
So I want to just kind of tease that out a
little bit because, in myexperience and I'll just make it
about me at this point, but inmy experience I have had seasons
where I was in desperation andprayer became the focal point
and I was really serious aboutit.
And then things start to workout and then it kind of goes
into the background of yourheart and life.
(14:37):
Um, how have you been able tomaintain the the desperation
vibe in prayer, even when thingshave now obviously worked out a
lot better for you?
Chris Tapken (14:51):
That's such a great question, and a lot of it
is.
You just have to ask the Lord.
The Holy Spirit's the one thatcan do that.
There's a lot of days, realtalk.
I don't want to pray.
Piet Van Waarde (15:05):
Well, you said that last night.
Did I really?
You said I'm the example.
Chris Tapken (15:06):
I don't want to pray.
Well, you said that last night,Did I really?
Piet Van Waarde (15:07):
You said I'm the example I don't want to be.
Chris Tapken (15:09):
Yeah, some of the stuff that comes out of my mouth
.
At least it's real.
Piet Van Waarde (15:17):
Yeah, no, I love it.
It's part of why I go.
Chris Tapken (15:19):
Yeah, there's a lot of days that I don't want to
really do the discipline ofprayer, but I do want to talk to
Jesus.
Piet Van Waarde (15:29):
I love that distinction.
Chris Tapken (15:38):
Yeah, and when we make prayer about a duty or a
religious exercise or somethingI should do because I'm a
Christian, that can wane, butwhen you make it all about Jesus
, I just want to talk to him, Ijust want to talk to him, and
that's called prayer, yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (15:50):
I felt a great conviction about prayer probably
about six years ago, about ayear before my cancer diagnosis.
Actually, I think it was partof God's prep work, because I
found myself in that sameposition where I realized that I
was pastoring people and I havea passion for that.
(16:11):
I feel gifted in that area, incommunication and preaching,
teaching.
But my personal prayer lifelike I could pray at a service
Sure, if somebody asked me topray over something or be at a
hospital, I could do that.
To pray over something or be ata hospital, I could do that.
But when I looked at my ownpersonal prayer life I felt like
man.
It is so shallow.
(16:33):
It's so weak and so I felt likeman God was going to really take
me through a process, and partof my fear was that I would have
to become one of these peoplethat got up at early morning
hours and pray for an hour.
And the reason I love yourdistinction is because when you
(16:53):
can kind of shift it to sayingit's more than just the process
of including it in your schedule.
Chris Tapken (17:00):
Yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (17:01):
It's really more about making it part of
your life and I know that soundsso cliche, about making it part
of your life, and I know thatsounds so cliche but if you can
get to that place where you havea conversation with the Lord
through the day, and then whenyou have those focus times of
prayer, it's just like I like tothink of it in terms of
marriage so my wife and I willtext during the day, we'll just
(17:21):
have a conversation that way.
But then there comes the timeat the end of the day where he's
like okay, so really, how wasyour day?
And I feel like that's part ofwhat prayer meetings are.
It's like that time where youstop and you say, hey, lord,
what's going on with you?
Chris Tapken (17:34):
Is that how it works for you?
It absolutely is.
We have that time where wereally shift into intercession,
which is a 75 cent church word,but intercession really is
that's our prayer meeting andthat what we feel that call on
us, pete, is.
I describe intercession as thisit's placing one hand on people
(17:55):
or places or things and theother hand on God and you're
bridging that gap.
For example, we prayed today atnoon that there is people in
our church that are so hurting,they're in such despair or
hopelessness or sickness thatthey can't even pray.
(18:16):
Our job as intercessors is tokick in saying God, we're going
to place one hand on them andone hand on you, and we're their
prayer warriors, we're theirprayers, we're going to bridge
that gap.
So that's a wonderfulassignment, a hard assignment,
but it's a really beautifulassignment.
(18:36):
But then, outside of that, toyour point, pray unceasing.
The Word says.
Well, what's that mean?
To me it's having conversationswith Jesus as we go about our
day.
Piet Van Waarde (18:49):
Yeah, I love that.
And so what are like when youthink of a prayer meeting?
I've been to them, so I think Iknow a little bit about this,
what you would say.
But just for those who may belistening, Sure, what is your
like?
What's your thought about?
Like, we want to try and createthis environment where
intercession can happen, so youhave some worship and then you
move into a season ofintercession.
(19:10):
Is there something that you doin your planning that will help
guide the experience, or do youjust do free-flowing?
Chris Tapken (19:19):
Free-flowing Planning, I think, is very
overrated in prayer ministries,because I think the Holy Spirit
has a lot to say about prayermeetings.
So we learned over the courseof doing this so many times that
our best prayer meetings, Ithink, are ones where we're
(19:39):
really just listening to theSpirit and we're agreeing with
each other but most importantly,pete, we're agreeing what's on
His heart, and that requirespeople that can hear the Lord
and are listening.
So you'll hear a theme come upand we try to stick with that
theme of okay, the Holy Spirit'stalking to us about Israel,
(20:03):
we're just going to stay on thattheme until he's done, and
that's the way we try to rollwith that.
Piet Van Waarde (20:11):
One of the things I've appreciated about
the prayer barn is that and Ihope you know what I mean by
this but they're normal people.
Yes, like in prayer meetingsthat I've been to in other
places at other times in my life.
Part of my resistance was thatthere was kind of a strangeness
about it.
It felt very woo-woo.
(20:33):
Let's call it what it is weird,yeah.
So how have you navigated it sothat it doesn't catch that
flavor?
Chris Tapken (20:43):
That is so hard to do because you're so right,
pete, and that's why mostpastors resist it, because it
gets weird, and we've tried tostay away from the weirdness as
much as we possibly can, and alot of it is.
We welcome people who are messy.
(21:05):
Just come in If you're hurting,if you're messy, if you just
come, and that tends to keep theweirdness away when you get
normal people that are therewith a real issue.
For example, we had a couplegirls in today that they really
needed God to show up for themfinancially, just as God is
(21:28):
provider.
Their finances were just in awreck and a mess and they were
just as honest and open and real.
As you could be just saying wedon't know what to do.
We got bills to play and we'refinancially really really
hurting.
We don't know where else to go,what else to do, we're
financially really reallyhurting, we don't know where
(21:49):
else to go, what else to do?
Piet Van Waarde (21:50):
That tends to keep the weirdness away when you
have real people that Well, andI think you guys model it, you
and Candy do such a great job ofthat.
Yeah, last night again, like wewere just saying, it's like hey
, sometimes I don't feel likebeing here and I think when
people are that raw and candid,it kind of gives people
permission.
Oh, like I don't have to havethe spiritual language, I don't
have to talk in a weird way.
Chris Tapken (22:12):
I don't think that's Jesus.
When I read scripture he wasjust the most attractive, went
to dinners, weddings, and wasjust this guy that people wanted
to be around.
He didn't use this crazylanguage, but somehow over the
(22:37):
years especially in prayerministries, pete, it's gotten
weird in a lot of places.
That's just the reality of it,and so churches get scared of
that.
And if that, I don't want that,but it doesn't need to be.
It really doesn't, and so we do, and I pray for that a lot, and
just as the leader of it.
Lord, protect us, pleaseprotect us.
It doesn't need to be weird.
(22:59):
I don't want it weird.
You don't want it weird.
Let's not go there.
Piet Van Waarde (23:04):
So we were talking a little bit before we
went on the air, about atransition that's happening in
your church.
Chris Tapken (23:09):
Yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (23:10):
And so when you think about the prayer ministry
moving forward, sometimes whenthere's a transition, that can
be like a little unsettling.
Chris Tapken (23:19):
Yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (23:19):
But you were saying hey, no, we are committed
to this, we're doing this.
What is the next five, 10 years?
Look like as best you know.
Chris Tapken (23:29):
So again I owe so much to Will Will Davis Jr.
That is a man of prayer, he's apastor of prayer and he really
went after a praying church andtried a couple times and it
didn't work out so well, butit's stuck now and that's in his
heart and that's in our DNA asa church at Austin Christian
(23:54):
Fellowship, and his son-in-lawis our next senior pastor,
Kenton Boone, and he getsinstalled this Sunday and Kenton
is a man of prayer and soKenton loves the prayer barn and
is in there all the time.
So really, prayer ministriescan't go any higher than the
pastor.
Piet Van Waarde (24:16):
I think that's so true, that is so true.
Chris Tapken (24:19):
And so to your point.
Barna says the average USpastor spends less than four
minutes in prayer.
Kind of hard to have a prayerministry if the pastor's not
modeling that.
So I've been blessed andfortunate.
Where Will's just a man, apastor of prayer.
He loves prayer and now Kentonwill follow.
(24:40):
And so we would love where'sthe next five years?
I tell our team this all thetime.
If we can do what we're doingover the next five years, we'll
be in great shape.
Statistically we're a prettyrare heir, pete.
There's the experts Mostchurches don't have.
If you have a prayer ministryover a year in a church,
(25:02):
corporate prayer ministry that'sa long time.
It's almost never heard of tohave one over four years long,
that's consistent.
They're going.
Piet Van Waarde (25:11):
So we're six and a half going on that
legitimately a prayer meeting.
Not like talking about prayer,we have a corporate prayer
meeting and there's praying.
Chris Tapken (25:20):
that's going on.
Yes, yes.
Yeah, so we're in pretty rareair and that's all grace, that's
all.
God put the call on thisparticular church to be a house
of prayer and to be known forthat and the DNA of it.
So if we do this, keep onkeeping on.
(25:41):
I'd be extremely grateful.
Piet Van Waarde (25:43):
Now I want to just dig in a little bit on this
prayer idea, because mostpeople, most pastors especially,
would say you know, a prayer isessential.
We need to have a prayingchurch.
What is it that you think keepspeople from actually doing it?
Chris Tapken (26:02):
I think there is a great divide in Western church.
It doesn't happen so much inthird world.
You go in the mission field.
They don't have this problem.
But we, in particular the US,we have this problem and I'm
going to put it as plainly as Ican Pete.
You'll go and talk about it.
There is a great divide betweenpastors and intercessors or
(26:24):
people that pray in thecongregation.
There's a great divide betweenpastors and intercessors or
people that pray in thecongregation.
There's a great divide, kind oflike oil and water.
Piet Van Waarde (26:36):
Is it personality driven?
Do you think?
I think it's.
Chris Tapken (26:42):
Intercessors get frustrated that most churches
and most pastors don't valuethem.
Maybe, like other ministries,they're not resourced.
They're kind of like, yeah,here's your two chairs in the
corner, Go over there and you'remy prayer team, kind of thing,
and so they get frustrated.
And then it's the weird partthat we talked about Pastors are
(27:06):
kind of like you got a word forme.
I don't know about you, youknow that sort of thing.
So there's been a really bigdivide, I think in the US church
between people of prayer,intercessors and pastors.
Will will tell you that he hadthat for a while at church and
(27:28):
in his pastoring over fourdecades and he said his greatest
blessing was he became friendswith the intercessors.
They're like his best friendsnow in the church.
Piet Van Waarde (27:36):
Yeah, that's great, and that's where I
totally see that, though.
It makes total sense to me.
Yeah, yeah.
Chris Tapken (27:41):
But you've got to Pastors got to kind of break
through that, get pastthemselves, get past the
weirdness, accept a word, allthat kind of stuff and what you
find is the hearts get connectedwhen that happens in churches.
Oh man.
Piet Van Waarde (27:57):
And I would say too as a pastor who's had to
kind of process some of that too.
It would be great forintercessors to also start by
saying no, seriously, I am foryour success, I don't have
another agenda.
I'm not like praying over youso that you do X, y and Z, if
(28:18):
they can get to a place where,like, hey, I love you, I want to
follow you.
I want to be on your team andthen you know kind of earn the
trust Absolutely.
Chris Tapken (28:29):
You're spot on where they just kind of start
running and the pastor's like Idon't even chill out, I don't
know you I don't know you andwhat's his word?
And all this kind of stuff.
But that is such a great point,pete, that intercessors need to
.
Piet Van Waarde (28:47):
Let me just pray, let me love on my pastor,
let me encourage them, and overtime, which is, you know, it's
the same thing with any otherministry, really, when you think
about it, I've had youthpastors where I'm wondering
what's their real agenda.
Music leaders so it happens inevery facet of the church.
But I think most of the time,and maybe it's partly conviction
(29:07):
Pastors are probably convictedabout their own carelessness.
Chris Tapken (29:11):
They are Absolutely.
And what is this person hearingfrom the Lord and all?
Piet Van Waarde (29:15):
this kind of stuff.
Chris Tapken (29:16):
So the churches that I've seen Pete firsthand,
including our own at ACF, wherethere's a love and agreement and
unity between pastors andintercessors sky's the limit on
that church.
Yeah, that church is healthyand amazing.
Yeah, but you're right, that'smy sense in the US church, yeah,
(29:40):
so when you were pastoring,tell me how you dealt with those
people of prayer, us, us people.
I'm in both camps, I'm a pastorand an assessor.
Piet Van Waarde (29:53):
Well, I would have to say that I was not great
at it.
I was one of those that was alittle bit nervous.
So I went to Oral RobertsUniversity and I saw a lot of
weird things at ORU and so whenI left ORU and went into the
ministry, and so when I left ORUand went into the ministry, I
more or less kind of backed offof the whole charismatic thing
(30:18):
and felt nervous about it.
And so there were some peoplethat you know, looking back I
regret because I knew they weresincere, but because of my own
baggage I was not reallyfriendly with them.
And it was really in this lastseason of my life, last maybe 10
(30:42):
years of my life, where I had ahard departure from the church
that I was pastoring for a longtime, run into a cancer
diagnosis, and I wouldn't callit like my low of lows, but
there were a lot ofcomplications and difficulties.
And the people that were themost gracious to me you can get
emotional about this, but thepeople that were the most
gracious to me were prayerpeople.
Chris Tapken (30:59):
Amazing, yeah, yeah.
So I think part of it is.
Piet Van Waarde (31:05):
It's shifted, I get it, I get it.
Chris Tapken (31:10):
It's when you connect with god's heart.
For people, um, that's thespecial sauce, so to speak, and
it really.
I was telling those two girlsthat came in today, um, for for
financial provision prayer, andI just said, look, this is going
to be weird, but if you stickwith it it'll become not weird.
(31:33):
And you've had experiences atthe prayer bar where wait a
minute, what?
And then all of a sudden itbecomes not so weird.
Right, and then it becomesthat's a place where I kind of
want to go.
Piet Van Waarde (31:43):
Yes.
Chris Tapken (31:44):
Because the people are pretty encouraging there.
Piet Van Waarde (31:46):
Yes, yes, yes, and some great people love
people, All right, so one Ialways like to ask this as the
kind of last question yeah, whatlike if you had a life message
or something that kind of reallyserves as the true north for
you guiding principle?
Chris Tapken (32:06):
what is that for you?
Oh, that's awesome, pete, andit's really easy to answer,
because it's not from me.
Oh, that's awesome, pete, andit's really easy to answer
because it's not from me.
The Lord gave me, I want to say, six years ago-ish.
You're going to define yourministry, and not only that, but
your life, by two wordsUnhurried time.
(32:32):
Unhurried time, unhurried timewith me, that's what.
And so I came back from Houston.
I said Candy, who's our worshipleader in the barn, and she's
my wingman and great friend ofyours too, and terrific worship
leader and so anointed and sopowerful and an awesome
(32:53):
singer-songwriter.
Yeah, oh, my goodness.
They said Candy.
God gave me like two words anda week later she goes, got a
song.
I've heard that song.
That's where it came from.
I got to tell you this storyreal quick.
Piet Van Waarde (33:05):
Yeah, so I was asked to speak at a men's
ministry event and I waswrestling with how to do the end
of the service and that songcame to mind.
Really.
Chris Tapken (33:20):
Yes.
Piet Van Waarde (33:21):
And so I had everybody, just like okay, now
we're going to practice, becausewe were talking about making
space for God, and we're goingto do this right now, not like
tomorrow, when you're in yourlike, right now we're going to
create cause it's a littlelonger song, yes, and so it's
like you know normally whenyou're like three or four
minutes into a song you're readyfor the thing to wrap up.
But the song itself is exactlythe point right.
Chris Tapken (33:45):
That's where it came from, and Candy just nailed
it, yeah, and she grew up likea week.
It's like how do you do that?
But it's so on point, it's just.
But that's my true north,that's my calling as not only a
pastor but just a man.
And guess what?
When I do that, I'm a betterhusband, better dad, better
(34:08):
civic human being when, I spendmy unhurried time with God, so,
but that's that's really my trueNorth.
Piet Van Waarde (34:15):
I love it those words.
You know what.
We're going to put that song inthe notes for the podcast.
I think people would love it.
Chris Tapken (34:20):
They're going to love it.
Piet Van Waarde (34:21):
Yeah.
Chris Tapken (34:21):
It's a great song, thank you, Candy.
Piet Van Waarde (34:24):
Well, thank you so much, chris.
I know you're super busy, sothank you for coming out.
Chris Tapken (34:30):
It's been awesome to pray with you, to see your
journey to walk with, to justsee how you minister to people,
how you love people, how youencourage people, how you pastor
people Been a great joy.
So thank you for the depositsthat you've made in our lives
too.
Oh my pleasure.
Piet Van Waarde (34:53):
And thank you for joining us for another
Sidewalk Conversations and we'llsee you next time.
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