May 22, 2025 • 29 mins
Van Kirkland shares his journey from Louisiana roots to Texas transplant, including his career as a dental technician creating beautiful smiles and how his faith sustained him through profound personal tragedies. His story reveals how mentorship, community support, and a deep relationship with God provided resilience during life's most challenging seasons.
• Originally from Plaquemine, Louisiana, moved to Texas after marrying a Texan
• Built a career as a dental technician, recently opening a new high-tech dental lab
• Early spiritual formation through mentor Jim Boley helped develop deep faith
• Lost daughter Grace to spinal muscular atrophy, experienced multiple miscarriages
• Miraculously adopted daughter Hope just nine months after losing Grace
• Recently welcomed mother-in-law into their home at age 88
• Passionate about small groups and discipling young believers
• Lives by Isaiah 50:4, speaking words of encouragement to the weary
If you're looking for a church in the Austin area or want to watch services online, check out Shoreline Church at shoreline.net.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Van Kirkland (00:00):
What is that Check , check so did you say something
funny?
Piet Van Waarde (00:03):
What do you mean?
What?
What is he doing?
He's already recording, sowe've got to say something funny
as the intro.
You know.
All the dad jokes that I know Idon't know them right now, you
know, or you can't say them onthe air.
Van Kirkland (00:17):
No, the dad jokes are clean, you know.
The dad jokes are usually PG,you know at least.
Piet Van Waarde (00:24):
PG, but not funny.
At least they are kind of Allright.
Well, thank you for joining usfor another Sidewalk
Conversations.
(00:44):
I'm so glad that you've joinedus today.
Thank you for being here.
I'm excited about introducingour guests, but before I do so,
I want to say thank you to oursponsor podcast and the work
that we do, and this is one oftheir outreach efforts, and so
(01:05):
thank you, shoreline Church, foryour contribution, and if
you're looking for a church inthe area we are in Austin, and
so if you need of a church,there are people to come and
visit and then they also haveservices online.
Van Kirkland (01:20):
So if you want to check?
Piet Van Waarde (01:20):
them out.
You can check them out atshorelinenet.
All right, I have a guest withme today.
Good friend, this is vankirkland.
Thank you for joining me,brother you're welcome.
Van Kirkland (01:28):
It's good to have you.
Piet Van Waarde (01:29):
I'm honored well, thank you I love your
shirt, by the way, did you tryit like, did you try and match
the sign?
Was that what it was?
Van Kirkland (01:37):
no I was gonna change, but then I said maybe a
segue.
You never you never know.
Piet Van Waarde (01:42):
I'm in the medical field.
Is this like your medical stuff?
Van Kirkland (01:45):
Yeah, yeah, we'll talk about that.
Piet Van Waarde (01:46):
Yeah.
Van Kirkland (01:48):
I'm in the dental field.
Yes, Okay.
Piet Van Waarde (01:49):
Yeah, all right .
Well, let's start at thebeginning.
So one of the things I like todo is I think that the way that
people grew up and where theygrew up has a way of setting the
trajectory for their life insome ways.
Doesn't say everything, but Ithink it's kind of interesting
to hear.
So tell me a little bit aboutwhere you grew up, kind of some
of your key influences, whatwere some of the things that you
learned growing up?
Van Kirkland (02:10):
Yeah, I am.
If you don't know by now, I'mnot from Texas.
The accent may give it awayhere soon.
I'm from Louisiana, a smallcity in Louisiana called
Plaquemine, louisiana, 7,000people.
So I was raised there middleclass.
I was honored to go to aCatholic school, a private
(02:32):
school, all my life.
So, that's all four of the kidswent.
So that was a burden.
That's probably why my parentswere middle class they were
paying for a private school, thewhole time, but anyway, I was
honored to go to private school.
My father worked for DowChemical, my mom worked for the
state of Louisiana.
Okay, my older sister Les, mybrother Jay, my younger sister,
(02:57):
pam, we're close, we love eachother.
Piet Van Waarde (03:01):
What brought you to?
Van Kirkland (03:02):
Texas.
Well, I married a Texan.
Now she was in Louisiana at thetime.
We would come to visit when westarted dating.
We only dated for 10 monthsbefore we got married.
Piet Van Waarde (03:17):
When you know, you know.
Van Kirkland (03:19):
When you know, you know.
So when we would come and visit, we would come for Easter
Thanksgiving and I just fell inlove with it.
That was about 1982.
Austin was totally different.
I think, the population wasabout 130,000 at the time, wow,
(03:39):
and the roads were clean,everything was mowed, everything
was pristine.
I'm like it's not like this.
In Louisiana Everything'sovergrown because we have water
and everything grows like crazy.
But anyway, we just kind offell in love with it.
I had a career in Louisiana andI won.
About five years after we gotmarried we decided it would be
(04:00):
nice to move to Texas.
And we decided it would be niceto move to Texas.
Debbie's older sister livedhere.
We enjoyed their company.
We liked it.
We liked the mindset of Austinat the time, for sure.
And then I came in one Easter,put out several applications and
then, november of that year, aman named Lester Eisenbeck, who
(04:25):
I'm honored to be friends with.
I think you met him one timeyes, I did?
He just turned 91.
Piet Van Waarde (04:30):
Man.
Van Kirkland (04:31):
And he blessed me with offering me a position at
his dental laboratory.
Piet Van Waarde (04:39):
Yeah, so let's talk about that a little bit.
You have a unique dentalprofession, yes, so you're not a
dentist, no, but you helpdentists, right.
So how did you get into this?
Van Kirkland (04:48):
I tell people, we're the people that make the
dentist look good sometimes so.
I think people love beautifulsmiles and that's what I do.
I'm a dental technician.
That's all I've done my entirelife.
Kind of going back a little bit, I'll tell you how I got into
it because my parents were notthe type to pay for our way to
(05:08):
college.
If we were going to go, we hadto pay our way through.
My brother did that, and then Iplanned on it.
In the meantime, a man I workedfor when I was in high school,
his brother was a dentaltechnician, a true artist, and I
needed a way to make some moneyto go to school.
Well, he said, van, I need anapprentice.
(05:29):
And I just fell in love.
I just fell in love with dentaltechnology.
Piet Van Waarde (05:34):
What does that actually do?
Van Kirkland (05:35):
I make crowns veneers implants.
I don't do dentures or anythinglike that.
I do a dental prosthesis, so Ido veneers crowns.
Piet Van Waarde (05:48):
So it really is like an artistry right, Because
you have to match color and allthe teeth have to look right
and all that.
Van Kirkland (05:55):
It's kind of funny because there was a different
type of art back then, becauseeverything was made by hand.
You waxed things, you hadimpressions, you poured all this
, you carved, you did all this,but nowadays I'm 64.
Nowadays everything's CAD, cam.
(06:15):
So I am one of the fortunateones that adapted to technology.
A lot of my friends don't do itanymore.
They just didn't adapt.
I've had employees that havenot been able to technology.
A lot of my friends don't do itanymore.
They just didn't adapt.
Piet Van Waarde (06:30):
I've had employees that have not been
able to adapt, but fortunatelyI've been able to.
Van Kirkland (06:32):
You just opened up a new lab.
I did.
I did about two and a halfyears ago.
We built out 2000 square feet.
It's beautiful.
Piet Van Waarde (06:38):
Very high tech.
Van Kirkland (06:39):
Yeah, it's, it doesn't.
My goal was for it not to feellike a lab.
I just wanted it to feel clean,open.
I was tired of bumping intopeople.
I came from 700 square feetwith four people so it was not
that much fun, but it did.
I had a purpose.
Piet Van Waarde (07:01):
It allowed me to get set up for where I am now
, what do you find is the mostrewarding thing that you do?
Van Kirkland (07:09):
I got a brownie, our lab got a brownie.
Today, someone brought us abrownie for them, being pleased,
being happy with changing theiroutlook on life.
You, know, making them havemore confidence, allowing them
to smile larger.
You know, making them have moreconfidence, allowing them to
smile larger.
So I have to bring a browniehome and my family may like it
(07:30):
or not but y'all have sugarcoming tonight.
Piet Van Waarde (07:34):
All right.
Well, let's talk a little bitabout your own personal journey,
because you've kind of had avery we've known each other for
a number of years now and aswe've gotten to know each other,
I hear a little bit more aboutyour story and some of the
challenges you faced in yourlife, and you've had some.
You've lost a child, you had oneof your kids end up
incarcerated, making some not sogreat personal decisions, and
(07:58):
so on, and yet you've navigatedit all.
You and your wife aredelightful people, strong
Christian folk, and so I want toask you a little bit about
Because I think there are a lotof people right now who look at
their lives and they have thisassumption that if I'm a good
person, if I'm going to church,if I believe in God, then that
(08:19):
should protect me from some ofthe not so great things in life.
And yet here you are and you'vebeen, you know, devout and a
devout Christian, your wife is,and then you've also had, you
know, your share of challenges.
So talk to me a little bitabout, kind of how you've
processed that and then maybesome tools that have served you
(08:43):
well in dealing with some ofthose challenges.
Van Kirkland (08:46):
I think what happened in the beginning they
talk about people who give theirlives to the Lord and they talk
about people who get saved, andthen they talk about people who
get good and saved.
And I think I was one of thosepeople because I had a mentor.
I had somebody who invested inmy life.
His name was Jim Boley and himand his wife were just sold-out
(09:10):
believers and they investedtheir time with us.
Small groups young marriedsmall group, not afraid to go
deep, not afraid to deal withchallenging issues, just really
call you out if something didn'tlook right.
And I think that's one of thethings that maybe the church
(09:34):
right now is a little bit afraidto do you know is just run,
because the Bible is the Bibleand it doesn't change, really,
with the times.
You know and I think Jim was oneof those people he was an
interesting cat, he got marriedand his wife didn't even know
that he was drinking a fifth ofbourbon a day until they got
(09:56):
married, that's crazy but Goddelivered him from that habit
like that, wow, like that.
And he is a man of God.
He lives in South Carolinastill today and pastors a church
Italian, black hair, tough guyyou know, but God softened him
(10:17):
up.
Piet Van Waarde (10:21):
And he was definitely an inspiration to me.
Did he just kind of put hishand on your life and say hey,
come along.
Or did you seek him out?
How did that relationshiphappen, Debbie?
Van Kirkland (10:28):
actually worked with his wife who had a nickname
.
Her name was Holy Roly Boly.
Piet Van Waarde (10:35):
That'll be a win for me.
Van Kirkland (10:37):
She got warned.
You know watch this lady.
But Marion was an awesomebeliever.
She was raised Catholic and shegot involved in the Catholic
charismatic movement and gaveher life to the Lord.
But Jim just had a way of justdeveloping young believers.
(10:59):
You know discipling people andI don't know what was your
question.
Piet Van Waarde (11:03):
How did you get connected?
Did he kind of seek you?
Know what was your question howdid you get connected?
Did he kind of seek you out, ordid you?
Van Kirkland (11:07):
No, well, we were involved in a young married
group.
Okay, all right, and so he wasa part of a lot of young couples
.
Piet Van Waarde (11:15):
They didn't have kids.
Van Kirkland (11:16):
Jim and Marion didn't have kids, and so they
had a lot of time to invest inothers.
Piet Van Waarde (11:22):
So when you started meeting with him, were
there some things that he eithermodeled or shared that served
you well during thesechallenging seasons that you
encountered.
Van Kirkland (11:36):
I think he just helped me develop my faith
really deeply you know, and Ithink it almost wasn't about
what God could do for me, it waswhat you could do for the Lord.
You could model things.
That's one of the things Ienjoy doing.
I enjoy being in Bible studies.
I enjoy being in small groups.
(11:57):
I enjoy investing in other men,young men especially, because I
feel like a lot of new of theydon't have a deep relationship.
You know, it's just trying tohelp people go deeper with God
and not just show up on Sundaysor even to a Bible study.
But it has to be aseven-day-a-week gig, you know.
Piet Van Waarde (12:20):
Yeah, it is.
So were there some things thatyou learned during these seasons
that you now find yourselfpassing along to the folks that
you're mentoring?
Van Kirkland (12:32):
Probably one of the unique things is if people
lose a child.
I don't know if we touched onthat, but we did lose a child.
Her name was Grace and she hadspinal muscular atrophy muscular
atrophy.
But what God showed me duringthat time and I think I
attributed a lot to my earlyfaith development is that we
(12:53):
need to live every day withoutregrets.
When we go to bed at night, weneed to have a clean conscience,
because tomorrow's not promised.
Although she was sick for aperiod of time, my faith was
believing for total healing, andso when she actually passed
away, it was somewhat of a shockto me because I was believing
(13:16):
that she would be healedregardless of what the doctor
said, and that was very hard onmy wife and I probably harder on
my oldest son that we didn'ttalk about.
He's bipolar and I think hetook it really the hardest out
of everybody.
He had prayed and desired asister for so long and at a year
(13:41):
and 15 days she was gone andit's brutal.
Piet Van Waarde (13:47):
Yeah, so when people deal with things like
that and maybe this is part ofwhat you were referencing
earlier when you say you havesaved and you have good and
saved there are people who havekind of a cursory relationship
with the Lord.
They go to church, they knowsome of the Bible, but when you
(14:07):
face a crisis like that, thenyou're especially when the
crisis is at least partially dueto a disappointment with God.
Maybe in some ways, then yourfaith is really like okay, do I
really believe this or is thisjust a joke?
So what was it that kind ofkept you steady?
(14:30):
I mean like, were there someverses that were critical to you
?
Were there some other peoplethat walked alongside you?
How did you navigate thatdisappointment?
Van Kirkland (14:43):
I'll be honest with you, it's a big blur.
But I know for a fact that alot of people came alongside of
us.
I mean, we were involved inShoreline at the time.
We were part of their originalsmall group ministry at the time
, so we had so many friends.
Probably 1,000 people came tomy daughter's funeral.
I'll be honest, I don't knowhow we got.
(15:07):
We put one foot in front of theother for a long time, yeah,
but I knew that what had beenput into me before, I knew I
wasn't going back.
Piet Van Waarde (15:19):
Yeah.
Van Kirkland (15:19):
I've been not walking with God.
It stunk over there.
You know I didn't do a good jobat that, but I knew that with
God I had hope.
Yeah, you know I didn't do agood job at that, but I knew
that with God I had hope.
There was just some hope andthere was certainly people that
great neighbors.
We just moved into a new homeliterally four months before
(15:40):
this happened, and so we had anew community.
They I can't.
I can't really point one thingout.
You know, I know that God'sfaithful.
Piet Van Waarde (15:49):
Yeah, and I appreciate your candor about
that.
I mean, I think back to some ofthe more difficult seasons
we've had and when people askthe same question so how did you
deal with your son being inprison?
Or how do you deal with acancer diagnosis?
You know, you hear all thesethings and you're like well,
(16:12):
it's like you said what are wegoing to do?
We're not going to go back to alife that we knew didn't have
the answers.
Well, God.
Van Kirkland (16:23):
The cool thing about all of this is my wife and
I had a deep desire forchildren.
My wife, I think, has had sevenor eight miscarriages.
We adopted our first, weadopted Grace.
She passed away, and then, Ibelieve, nine months after that,
(16:43):
probably a mutual friend,cheryl Johnson.
You may know Cheryl and Mike.
We met them at a, we met themsomewhere.
And long story short, she knewa young lady.
That knew a young lady who waspregnant and she, the story went
(17:07):
that she just moved here.
She was in a bad relationship,she already had a child and she
wanted her child to be adoptedby a good Christian home.
She didn't want to go throughan agency or anything like that.
So actually that was a Mondaynight.
We talked to Cheryl.
On Tuesday we got this phonecall about this whole situation,
(17:31):
about possibly adopting a childthis is six, nine months after
we lose Grace and then she weended up.
Debbie was speaking, I believe.
No, no, she was speaking onThursday.
Tuesday, we just went throughall of this.
On Wednesday we met this younggirl.
(17:53):
She was 17 years old, she wasdue in four days.
We went to Lago Vista, we mether, had a great time with her.
I'm just kind of summing upright now Thursday my wife was
speaking for a women'sconference at Shoreline.
Monday morning and evening andthen in the middle of that and I
(18:20):
went to someone, went to pickher up, to bring her to our
doctor, to get her make sureeverything was really good,
because we had been through someheartache and she was very
healthy, very healthy young girl.
After she went to the doctor, Ibrought her home while Debbie
was speaking at the next visit.
So now this thing's going tohappen.
(18:40):
Ok, friday we got to go throughthe legal stuff.
Now I have to find a lawyerthat's going to help us out with
this, with adoption, and I hadto call 37 lawyers before we
could find a family lawyer thatstayed late on Friday night to
meet with us and her separately,at 7.30, 8 o'clock on a Friday
(19:03):
night.
By the way, she was due thatFriday, that's right, she was
due.
So the doctor did agree to seeher and deliver the baby with
all of this.
So the doctor said if you don'tgo into labor this weekend, I
want you to show up on Mondaymorning and we're going to
(19:24):
induce labor.
Yeah, which she did, and shehad a very poor family support
system.
Her mom literally dropped heroff at the hospital door.
We did not want to.
It was not supportive ofadoption at all, but we met her
there.
They induced labor I believe itwas, I can't remember the time
(19:45):
exactly, but she delivered ahealthy baby girl, which is our
daughter Hope, on a Mondaymorning.
Piet Van Waarde (19:52):
What a great name.
Yes.
Van Kirkland (19:54):
And then on Tuesday she was at the hospital
and Wednesday time frameWednesday to Wednesday we didn't
know anything and had adaughter in our house.
And so the crazy thing aboutthat is we were prepared.
(20:15):
We were prepared for this.
We had a room set up because weknew God wanted to add to our
family.
So from Wednesday to WednesdayI think it started on a Tuesday
night and that's why I wasconfused on the days, but it was
Wednesday to Wednesday we wentfrom an empty room to a daughter
in our home, and what a wildride that was.
Piet Van Waarde (20:36):
You know, I wonder and we can only speculate
.
You don't know what God has inmind, but I almost wonder if
that wasn't part of theredemption, of the story with
Grace.
Van Kirkland (20:50):
Yeah, I mean, if you've experienced loss, I mean
it doesn't always, you know, ittakes years sometimes, and so
now we do get to have a focus.
We've certainly never forgotabout Grace.
We celebrate her birthday everyyear, but yes, it was, I
believe, definitely a part ofthe process.
(21:11):
And then, nine months later, mywife gets pregnant with Carson.
So the adoption agency was inTulsa that we had used when we
adopted Grace and they called usup because they knew our story,
they knew what had happened,that we had lost her, and they
(21:32):
called us up and they said well,have you all thought about
adoption again?
This was about nine monthsafter it happened and my wife
was pregnant.
She said no, thanks, our quiveris full, you know, but side note
, we were able to introduce themto another couple here in town
(21:53):
that went to Shoreline, jamesand Jackie Lewis, and they
adopted Hannah and the adoptionagency's name was called
Hannah's Prayer Okay, and sothey ended up naming their
daughter Hannah so.
God used it all.
Piet Van Waarde (22:09):
Yeah, sounds like it.
Yeah, all right, switchinggears a little bit, yeah, so,
because you seem to enjoychallenge, you also recently
invited your mother-in-law tolive with you guys.
Yeah, and you know, we're atthe age where we're kind of in
the middle, so we're launchingour kids, hoping they succeed,
(22:31):
but then we're also maybe tryingto deal with parents that are
needing assistance, so it's likewe're helping them on both
sides.
So, carol and I have had someexperience with that and I'm
just curious what are some ofthe things that you've learned
in this new venture with yourmother-in-law?
(22:52):
Because that also adds a wholenew wrinkle to your life.
So talk a little bit about whatthat's involved.
Van Kirkland (23:00):
I learned how to remodel a bathroom.
We needed to remodel a bathroomso I was able to do that.
No, it's been good, and Debbieand I talked many years ago that
if it ever came to the point inour lives where one of our
parents or both of our parentsever were going to need help or
assistance, that I wanted to beopen to that.
(23:21):
Debbie's father died close to11 years ago I believe, and her
mom's been an assistant, notassisted living but she's had an
apartment at Brookdale for manyyears and it was just kind of
getting to be the time where shemight need a little more help
and assistance.
And I told Debbie that's theright thing to do and assistance
(23:46):
.
And I told Debbie I think it'sthe right thing to do.
You know, I just felt like itwas.
I was not adverse to it.
And then certainly I love mymother-in-law.
She's great Challenges.
I don't know we're kind of withan autistic son.
We're kind of.
You know we're at the house awhole lot more.
We don't have a lot of freereign as some of our friends who
are empty nesters.
Piet Van Waarde (24:07):
Yeah.
Van Kirkland (24:09):
But Carson's great and having my mother-in-law,
alice, is awesome.
We've set her up an apartmentin the largest bedroom other
than ours in the house and she'smade it her home.
You walk in there.
You feel like you're walking ina different.
Piet Van Waarde (24:23):
You feel like you're walking in a different
she's made it her home.
You walk in there.
You feel like you're walking ina different.
Van Kirkland (24:24):
You feel like you're walking in a different.
She's made it her own, you know.
She's made it her own apartment.
She has her own bed, her ownthings that she's been used to
for many, many years and we'vejust tried to make her feel at
home.
So, yeah, it's.
Piet Van Waarde (24:42):
I don't know about challenges, I mean, I just
it's an alteration to your lifea little bit, it is.
Van Kirkland (24:48):
It is.
I mean because if we want to goout of town and even we want to
take Carson with us, you knowwe need to make some plans for
that, but we have family in towntoo, so somehow we make it work
.
Piet Van Waarde (24:59):
It's been good it's been good.
Van Kirkland (25:01):
She's an awesome woman and she's doing good she's
thriving.
Piet Van Waarde (25:05):
So when people are in a position, like you're
in, where you're kind ofthinking, okay, do I find a
place for my parents to becomfortable in an assisted
living situation or do I invitethem into our home, what were
some of the things that tippedthe scale for you to say, yeah,
we're going to bring her intoour home?
Van Kirkland (25:28):
Well, I mean she's 88 now, and so I mean certainly
just we slow down a little bit.
I haven't, I'm not 88 yet but, Imean, we definitely noticed,
you know, her just needing alittle more help.
I don't know what tipped thescales, it was just time,
certainly being in an assistedliving or not assisted, but she
(25:49):
was in an apartment.
It's costly, it's very costlyand she was in a great place.
They did well with her.
It's just.
I don't know what tipped thescales, it was just time Seemed
like she needed a little morehelp than she was getting there
and you were willing to, willingto provide it.
yeah and a step up that helpwould be more money.
Yeah, over at the assistedliving as well.
(26:12):
So yeah yeah, so it.
I don't know what tipped it, wejust felt like it was the right
time it's.
I can't give you these I can'tgive you, these little nuggets
that you ask for every now.
It's just like's, just like.
I feel like God, this is whatwe're supposed to do.
We pray about it and this iswhat we're supposed to do.
Yeah yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (26:33):
Well, I also like to ask the question at the
end of is there something thatyou have, like both you and your
wife?
When I first met you guys, oneof the things I noticed right
off the bat is that you guys arevery much oriented around
serving people, serving thechurch, honoring God with your
(26:54):
resources and your life, and I'mwondering if that's part of a
theme statement you have foryour life.
So do you have like a little,maybe a family mission or a
personal statement that's likethis is who we are, this is what
we try and live by?
Van Kirkland (27:11):
Well, one thing we did at our church we were
directors of small groupministry and Acts 2.42 says that
they devoted themselves to theapostles' teaching fellowship,
prayer and communion.
So that was one of our that'sour sticky statement for sure,
with small groups.
So my heart is to be to develop.
(27:33):
I love small groups, yeah, andI love relationships with men.
I love to help developrelationships with them.
My favorite scripture is Isaiah50 and verse four.
It says the spirit of the Lordhas given me the tongue of the
learned to know how to speak aword in season to he that's
weary, and I believe thatthere's a lot of people who need
(27:57):
encouragement.
Piet Van Waarde (27:57):
There's a lot of people who need hope.
Van Kirkland (27:59):
There are a lot of people who are tired.
I mean, the world is draining Alot of people who are?
Tired.
I mean the world is draining,yeah, you know, whether it be
from, you know, politicalworldviews, even church, it can
be draining, you know.
So I just my belief is thatsmall groups are important,
developing young believers thatare playing Christian.
(28:25):
You know, I'm not judging them,but I believe that we all need
to disciple our young believers.
Yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (28:34):
Well, you certainly do it well, oh, we try
, and I just admire both you andDeb and the way you approach
life and I appreciate you takingsome time to share with me here
in the podcast.
Thank, you.
Van Kirkland (28:46):
Thank you, it's been an honor, all right.
Piet Van Waarde (28:48):
Okay, and thank you for joining us.
We are so appreciative of yourparticipation and I hope, if you
hear something through thispodcast that you think might be
of help to someone else, feelfree to share and certainly, if
you haven't already done so,subscribe to the channel and
thank you for joining us.
We'll see you next time.
What is that Check , check so did you say something
funny?
Piet Van Waarde (00:03):
What do you mean?
What?
What is he doing?
He's already recording, sowe've got to say something funny
as the intro.
You know.
All the dad jokes that I know Idon't know them right now, you
know, or you can't say them onthe air.
Van Kirkland (00:17):
No, the dad jokes are clean, you know.
The dad jokes are usually PG,you know at least.
Piet Van Waarde (00:24):
PG, but not funny.
At least they are kind of Allright.
Well, thank you for joining usfor another Sidewalk
Conversations.
(00:44):
I'm so glad that you've joinedus today.
Thank you for being here.
I'm excited about introducingour guests, but before I do so,
I want to say thank you to oursponsor podcast and the work
that we do, and this is one oftheir outreach efforts, and so
(01:05):
thank you, shoreline Church, foryour contribution, and if
you're looking for a church inthe area we are in Austin, and
so if you need of a church,there are people to come and
visit and then they also haveservices online.
Van Kirkland (01:20):
So if you want to check?
Piet Van Waarde (01:20):
them out.
You can check them out atshorelinenet.
All right, I have a guest withme today.
Good friend, this is vankirkland.
Thank you for joining me,brother you're welcome.
Van Kirkland (01:28):
It's good to have you.
Piet Van Waarde (01:29):
I'm honored well, thank you I love your
shirt, by the way, did you tryit like, did you try and match
the sign?
Was that what it was?
Van Kirkland (01:37):
no I was gonna change, but then I said maybe a
segue.
You never you never know.
Piet Van Waarde (01:42):
I'm in the medical field.
Is this like your medical stuff?
Van Kirkland (01:45):
Yeah, yeah, we'll talk about that.
Piet Van Waarde (01:46):
Yeah.
Van Kirkland (01:48):
I'm in the dental field.
Yes, Okay.
Piet Van Waarde (01:49):
Yeah, all right .
Well, let's start at thebeginning.
So one of the things I like todo is I think that the way that
people grew up and where theygrew up has a way of setting the
trajectory for their life insome ways.
Doesn't say everything, but Ithink it's kind of interesting
to hear.
So tell me a little bit aboutwhere you grew up, kind of some
of your key influences, whatwere some of the things that you
learned growing up?
Van Kirkland (02:10):
Yeah, I am.
If you don't know by now, I'mnot from Texas.
The accent may give it awayhere soon.
I'm from Louisiana, a smallcity in Louisiana called
Plaquemine, louisiana, 7,000people.
So I was raised there middleclass.
I was honored to go to aCatholic school, a private
(02:32):
school, all my life.
So, that's all four of the kidswent.
So that was a burden.
That's probably why my parentswere middle class they were
paying for a private school, thewhole time, but anyway, I was
honored to go to private school.
My father worked for DowChemical, my mom worked for the
state of Louisiana.
Okay, my older sister Les, mybrother Jay, my younger sister,
(02:57):
pam, we're close, we love eachother.
Piet Van Waarde (03:01):
What brought you to?
Van Kirkland (03:02):
Texas.
Well, I married a Texan.
Now she was in Louisiana at thetime.
We would come to visit when westarted dating.
We only dated for 10 monthsbefore we got married.
Piet Van Waarde (03:17):
When you know, you know.
Van Kirkland (03:19):
When you know, you know.
So when we would come and visit, we would come for Easter
Thanksgiving and I just fell inlove with it.
That was about 1982.
Austin was totally different.
I think, the population wasabout 130,000 at the time, wow,
(03:39):
and the roads were clean,everything was mowed, everything
was pristine.
I'm like it's not like this.
In Louisiana Everything'sovergrown because we have water
and everything grows like crazy.
But anyway, we just kind offell in love with it.
I had a career in Louisiana andI won.
About five years after we gotmarried we decided it would be
(04:00):
nice to move to Texas.
And we decided it would be niceto move to Texas.
Debbie's older sister livedhere.
We enjoyed their company.
We liked it.
We liked the mindset of Austinat the time, for sure.
And then I came in one Easter,put out several applications and
then, november of that year, aman named Lester Eisenbeck, who
(04:25):
I'm honored to be friends with.
I think you met him one timeyes, I did?
He just turned 91.
Piet Van Waarde (04:30):
Man.
Van Kirkland (04:31):
And he blessed me with offering me a position at
his dental laboratory.
Piet Van Waarde (04:39):
Yeah, so let's talk about that a little bit.
You have a unique dentalprofession, yes, so you're not a
dentist, no, but you helpdentists, right.
So how did you get into this?
Van Kirkland (04:48):
I tell people, we're the people that make the
dentist look good sometimes so.
I think people love beautifulsmiles and that's what I do.
I'm a dental technician.
That's all I've done my entirelife.
Kind of going back a little bit, I'll tell you how I got into
it because my parents were notthe type to pay for our way to
(05:08):
college.
If we were going to go, we hadto pay our way through.
My brother did that, and then Iplanned on it.
In the meantime, a man I workedfor when I was in high school,
his brother was a dentaltechnician, a true artist, and I
needed a way to make some moneyto go to school.
Well, he said, van, I need anapprentice.
(05:29):
And I just fell in love.
I just fell in love with dentaltechnology.
Piet Van Waarde (05:34):
What does that actually do?
Van Kirkland (05:35):
I make crowns veneers implants.
I don't do dentures or anythinglike that.
I do a dental prosthesis, so Ido veneers crowns.
Piet Van Waarde (05:48):
So it really is like an artistry right, Because
you have to match color and allthe teeth have to look right
and all that.
Van Kirkland (05:55):
It's kind of funny because there was a different
type of art back then, becauseeverything was made by hand.
You waxed things, you hadimpressions, you poured all this
, you carved, you did all this,but nowadays I'm 64.
Nowadays everything's CAD, cam.
(06:15):
So I am one of the fortunateones that adapted to technology.
A lot of my friends don't do itanymore.
They just didn't adapt.
I've had employees that havenot been able to technology.
A lot of my friends don't do itanymore.
They just didn't adapt.
Piet Van Waarde (06:30):
I've had employees that have not been
able to adapt, but fortunatelyI've been able to.
Van Kirkland (06:32):
You just opened up a new lab.
I did.
I did about two and a halfyears ago.
We built out 2000 square feet.
It's beautiful.
Piet Van Waarde (06:38):
Very high tech.
Van Kirkland (06:39):
Yeah, it's, it doesn't.
My goal was for it not to feellike a lab.
I just wanted it to feel clean,open.
I was tired of bumping intopeople.
I came from 700 square feetwith four people so it was not
that much fun, but it did.
I had a purpose.
Piet Van Waarde (07:01):
It allowed me to get set up for where I am now
, what do you find is the mostrewarding thing that you do?
Van Kirkland (07:09):
I got a brownie, our lab got a brownie.
Today, someone brought us abrownie for them, being pleased,
being happy with changing theiroutlook on life.
You, know, making them havemore confidence, allowing them
to smile larger.
You know, making them have moreconfidence, allowing them to
smile larger.
So I have to bring a browniehome and my family may like it
(07:30):
or not but y'all have sugarcoming tonight.
Piet Van Waarde (07:34):
All right.
Well, let's talk a little bitabout your own personal journey,
because you've kind of had avery we've known each other for
a number of years now and aswe've gotten to know each other,
I hear a little bit more aboutyour story and some of the
challenges you faced in yourlife, and you've had some.
You've lost a child, you had oneof your kids end up
incarcerated, making some not sogreat personal decisions, and
(07:58):
so on, and yet you've navigatedit all.
You and your wife aredelightful people, strong
Christian folk, and so I want toask you a little bit about
Because I think there are a lotof people right now who look at
their lives and they have thisassumption that if I'm a good
person, if I'm going to church,if I believe in God, then that
(08:19):
should protect me from some ofthe not so great things in life.
And yet here you are and you'vebeen, you know, devout and a
devout Christian, your wife is,and then you've also had, you
know, your share of challenges.
So talk to me a little bitabout, kind of how you've
processed that and then maybesome tools that have served you
(08:43):
well in dealing with some ofthose challenges.
Van Kirkland (08:46):
I think what happened in the beginning they
talk about people who give theirlives to the Lord and they talk
about people who get saved, andthen they talk about people who
get good and saved.
And I think I was one of thosepeople because I had a mentor.
I had somebody who invested inmy life.
His name was Jim Boley and himand his wife were just sold-out
(09:10):
believers and they investedtheir time with us.
Small groups young marriedsmall group, not afraid to go
deep, not afraid to deal withchallenging issues, just really
call you out if something didn'tlook right.
And I think that's one of thethings that maybe the church
(09:34):
right now is a little bit afraidto do you know is just run,
because the Bible is the Bibleand it doesn't change, really,
with the times.
You know and I think Jim was oneof those people he was an
interesting cat, he got marriedand his wife didn't even know
that he was drinking a fifth ofbourbon a day until they got
(09:56):
married, that's crazy but Goddelivered him from that habit
like that, wow, like that.
And he is a man of God.
He lives in South Carolinastill today and pastors a church
Italian, black hair, tough guyyou know, but God softened him
(10:17):
up.
Piet Van Waarde (10:21):
And he was definitely an inspiration to me.
Did he just kind of put hishand on your life and say hey,
come along.
Or did you seek him out?
How did that relationshiphappen, Debbie?
Van Kirkland (10:28):
actually worked with his wife who had a nickname
.
Her name was Holy Roly Boly.
Piet Van Waarde (10:35):
That'll be a win for me.
Van Kirkland (10:37):
She got warned.
You know watch this lady.
But Marion was an awesomebeliever.
She was raised Catholic and shegot involved in the Catholic
charismatic movement and gaveher life to the Lord.
But Jim just had a way of justdeveloping young believers.
(10:59):
You know discipling people andI don't know what was your
question.
Piet Van Waarde (11:03):
How did you get connected?
Did he kind of seek you?
Know what was your question howdid you get connected?
Did he kind of seek you out, ordid you?
Van Kirkland (11:07):
No, well, we were involved in a young married
group.
Okay, all right, and so he wasa part of a lot of young couples
.
Piet Van Waarde (11:15):
They didn't have kids.
Van Kirkland (11:16):
Jim and Marion didn't have kids, and so they
had a lot of time to invest inothers.
Piet Van Waarde (11:22):
So when you started meeting with him, were
there some things that he eithermodeled or shared that served
you well during thesechallenging seasons that you
encountered.
Van Kirkland (11:36):
I think he just helped me develop my faith
really deeply you know, and Ithink it almost wasn't about
what God could do for me, it waswhat you could do for the Lord.
You could model things.
That's one of the things Ienjoy doing.
I enjoy being in Bible studies.
I enjoy being in small groups.
(11:57):
I enjoy investing in other men,young men especially, because I
feel like a lot of new of theydon't have a deep relationship.
You know, it's just trying tohelp people go deeper with God
and not just show up on Sundaysor even to a Bible study.
But it has to be aseven-day-a-week gig, you know.
Piet Van Waarde (12:20):
Yeah, it is.
So were there some things thatyou learned during these seasons
that you now find yourselfpassing along to the folks that
you're mentoring?
Van Kirkland (12:32):
Probably one of the unique things is if people
lose a child.
I don't know if we touched onthat, but we did lose a child.
Her name was Grace and she hadspinal muscular atrophy muscular
atrophy.
But what God showed me duringthat time and I think I
attributed a lot to my earlyfaith development is that we
(12:53):
need to live every day withoutregrets.
When we go to bed at night, weneed to have a clean conscience,
because tomorrow's not promised.
Although she was sick for aperiod of time, my faith was
believing for total healing, andso when she actually passed
away, it was somewhat of a shockto me because I was believing
(13:16):
that she would be healedregardless of what the doctor
said, and that was very hard onmy wife and I probably harder on
my oldest son that we didn'ttalk about.
He's bipolar and I think hetook it really the hardest out
of everybody.
He had prayed and desired asister for so long and at a year
(13:41):
and 15 days she was gone andit's brutal.
Piet Van Waarde (13:47):
Yeah, so when people deal with things like
that and maybe this is part ofwhat you were referencing
earlier when you say you havesaved and you have good and
saved there are people who havekind of a cursory relationship
with the Lord.
They go to church, they knowsome of the Bible, but when you
(14:07):
face a crisis like that, thenyou're especially when the
crisis is at least partially dueto a disappointment with God.
Maybe in some ways, then yourfaith is really like okay, do I
really believe this or is thisjust a joke?
So what was it that kind ofkept you steady?
(14:30):
I mean like, were there someverses that were critical to you
?
Were there some other peoplethat walked alongside you?
How did you navigate thatdisappointment?
Van Kirkland (14:43):
I'll be honest with you, it's a big blur.
But I know for a fact that alot of people came alongside of
us.
I mean, we were involved inShoreline at the time.
We were part of their originalsmall group ministry at the time
, so we had so many friends.
Probably 1,000 people came tomy daughter's funeral.
I'll be honest, I don't knowhow we got.
(15:07):
We put one foot in front of theother for a long time, yeah,
but I knew that what had beenput into me before, I knew I
wasn't going back.
Piet Van Waarde (15:19):
Yeah.
Van Kirkland (15:19):
I've been not walking with God.
It stunk over there.
You know I didn't do a good jobat that, but I knew that with
God I had hope.
Yeah, you know I didn't do agood job at that, but I knew
that with God I had hope.
There was just some hope andthere was certainly people that
great neighbors.
We just moved into a new homeliterally four months before
(15:40):
this happened, and so we had anew community.
They I can't.
I can't really point one thingout.
You know, I know that God'sfaithful.
Piet Van Waarde (15:49):
Yeah, and I appreciate your candor about
that.
I mean, I think back to some ofthe more difficult seasons
we've had and when people askthe same question so how did you
deal with your son being inprison?
Or how do you deal with acancer diagnosis?
You know, you hear all thesethings and you're like well,
(16:12):
it's like you said what are wegoing to do?
We're not going to go back to alife that we knew didn't have
the answers.
Well, God.
Van Kirkland (16:23):
The cool thing about all of this is my wife and
I had a deep desire forchildren.
My wife, I think, has had sevenor eight miscarriages.
We adopted our first, weadopted Grace.
She passed away, and then, Ibelieve, nine months after that,
(16:43):
probably a mutual friend,cheryl Johnson.
You may know Cheryl and Mike.
We met them at a, we met themsomewhere.
And long story short, she knewa young lady.
That knew a young lady who waspregnant and she, the story went
(17:07):
that she just moved here.
She was in a bad relationship,she already had a child and she
wanted her child to be adoptedby a good Christian home.
She didn't want to go throughan agency or anything like that.
So actually that was a Mondaynight.
We talked to Cheryl.
On Tuesday we got this phonecall about this whole situation,
(17:31):
about possibly adopting a childthis is six, nine months after
we lose Grace and then she weended up.
Debbie was speaking, I believe.
No, no, she was speaking onThursday.
Tuesday, we just went throughall of this.
On Wednesday we met this younggirl.
(17:53):
She was 17 years old, she wasdue in four days.
We went to Lago Vista, we mether, had a great time with her.
I'm just kind of summing upright now Thursday my wife was
speaking for a women'sconference at Shoreline.
Monday morning and evening andthen in the middle of that and I
(18:20):
went to someone, went to pickher up, to bring her to our
doctor, to get her make sureeverything was really good,
because we had been through someheartache and she was very
healthy, very healthy young girl.
After she went to the doctor, Ibrought her home while Debbie
was speaking at the next visit.
So now this thing's going tohappen.
(18:40):
Ok, friday we got to go throughthe legal stuff.
Now I have to find a lawyerthat's going to help us out with
this, with adoption, and I hadto call 37 lawyers before we
could find a family lawyer thatstayed late on Friday night to
meet with us and her separately,at 7.30, 8 o'clock on a Friday
(19:03):
night.
By the way, she was due thatFriday, that's right, she was
due.
So the doctor did agree to seeher and deliver the baby with
all of this.
So the doctor said if you don'tgo into labor this weekend, I
want you to show up on Mondaymorning and we're going to
(19:24):
induce labor.
Yeah, which she did, and shehad a very poor family support
system.
Her mom literally dropped heroff at the hospital door.
We did not want to.
It was not supportive ofadoption at all, but we met her
there.
They induced labor I believe itwas, I can't remember the time
(19:45):
exactly, but she delivered ahealthy baby girl, which is our
daughter Hope, on a Mondaymorning.
Piet Van Waarde (19:52):
What a great name.
Yes.
Van Kirkland (19:54):
And then on Tuesday she was at the hospital
and Wednesday time frameWednesday to Wednesday we didn't
know anything and had adaughter in our house.
And so the crazy thing aboutthat is we were prepared.
(20:15):
We were prepared for this.
We had a room set up because weknew God wanted to add to our
family.
So from Wednesday to WednesdayI think it started on a Tuesday
night and that's why I wasconfused on the days, but it was
Wednesday to Wednesday we wentfrom an empty room to a daughter
in our home, and what a wildride that was.
Piet Van Waarde (20:36):
You know, I wonder and we can only speculate
.
You don't know what God has inmind, but I almost wonder if
that wasn't part of theredemption, of the story with
Grace.
Van Kirkland (20:50):
Yeah, I mean, if you've experienced loss, I mean
it doesn't always, you know, ittakes years sometimes, and so
now we do get to have a focus.
We've certainly never forgotabout Grace.
We celebrate her birthday everyyear, but yes, it was, I
believe, definitely a part ofthe process.
(21:11):
And then, nine months later, mywife gets pregnant with Carson.
So the adoption agency was inTulsa that we had used when we
adopted Grace and they called usup because they knew our story,
they knew what had happened,that we had lost her, and they
(21:32):
called us up and they said well,have you all thought about
adoption again?
This was about nine monthsafter it happened and my wife
was pregnant.
She said no, thanks, our quiveris full, you know, but side note
, we were able to introduce themto another couple here in town
(21:53):
that went to Shoreline, jamesand Jackie Lewis, and they
adopted Hannah and the adoptionagency's name was called
Hannah's Prayer Okay, and sothey ended up naming their
daughter Hannah so.
God used it all.
Piet Van Waarde (22:09):
Yeah, sounds like it.
Yeah, all right, switchinggears a little bit, yeah, so,
because you seem to enjoychallenge, you also recently
invited your mother-in-law tolive with you guys.
Yeah, and you know, we're atthe age where we're kind of in
the middle, so we're launchingour kids, hoping they succeed,
(22:31):
but then we're also maybe tryingto deal with parents that are
needing assistance, so it's likewe're helping them on both
sides.
So, carol and I have had someexperience with that and I'm
just curious what are some ofthe things that you've learned
in this new venture with yourmother-in-law?
(22:52):
Because that also adds a wholenew wrinkle to your life.
So talk a little bit about whatthat's involved.
Van Kirkland (23:00):
I learned how to remodel a bathroom.
We needed to remodel a bathroomso I was able to do that.
No, it's been good, and Debbieand I talked many years ago that
if it ever came to the point inour lives where one of our
parents or both of our parentsever were going to need help or
assistance, that I wanted to beopen to that.
(23:21):
Debbie's father died close to11 years ago I believe, and her
mom's been an assistant, notassisted living but she's had an
apartment at Brookdale for manyyears and it was just kind of
getting to be the time where shemight need a little more help
and assistance.
And I told Debbie that's theright thing to do and assistance
(23:46):
.
And I told Debbie I think it'sthe right thing to do.
You know, I just felt like itwas.
I was not adverse to it.
And then certainly I love mymother-in-law.
She's great Challenges.
I don't know we're kind of withan autistic son.
We're kind of.
You know we're at the house awhole lot more.
We don't have a lot of freereign as some of our friends who
are empty nesters.
Piet Van Waarde (24:07):
Yeah.
Van Kirkland (24:09):
But Carson's great and having my mother-in-law,
alice, is awesome.
We've set her up an apartmentin the largest bedroom other
than ours in the house and she'smade it her home.
You walk in there.
You feel like you're walking ina different.
Piet Van Waarde (24:23):
You feel like you're walking in a different
she's made it her home.
You walk in there.
You feel like you're walking ina different.
Van Kirkland (24:24):
You feel like you're walking in a different.
She's made it her own, you know.
She's made it her own apartment.
She has her own bed, her ownthings that she's been used to
for many, many years and we'vejust tried to make her feel at
home.
So, yeah, it's.
Piet Van Waarde (24:42):
I don't know about challenges, I mean, I just
it's an alteration to your lifea little bit, it is.
Van Kirkland (24:48):
It is.
I mean because if we want to goout of town and even we want to
take Carson with us, you knowwe need to make some plans for
that, but we have family in towntoo, so somehow we make it work
.
Piet Van Waarde (24:59):
It's been good it's been good.
Van Kirkland (25:01):
She's an awesome woman and she's doing good she's
thriving.
Piet Van Waarde (25:05):
So when people are in a position, like you're
in, where you're kind ofthinking, okay, do I find a
place for my parents to becomfortable in an assisted
living situation or do I invitethem into our home, what were
some of the things that tippedthe scale for you to say, yeah,
we're going to bring her intoour home?
Van Kirkland (25:28):
Well, I mean she's 88 now, and so I mean certainly
just we slow down a little bit.
I haven't, I'm not 88 yet but, Imean, we definitely noticed,
you know, her just needing alittle more help.
I don't know what tipped thescales, it was just time,
certainly being in an assistedliving or not assisted, but she
(25:49):
was in an apartment.
It's costly, it's very costlyand she was in a great place.
They did well with her.
It's just.
I don't know what tipped thescales, it was just time Seemed
like she needed a little morehelp than she was getting there
and you were willing to, willingto provide it.
yeah and a step up that helpwould be more money.
Yeah, over at the assistedliving as well.
(26:12):
So yeah yeah, so it.
I don't know what tipped it, wejust felt like it was the right
time it's.
I can't give you these I can'tgive you, these little nuggets
that you ask for every now.
It's just like's, just like.
I feel like God, this is whatwe're supposed to do.
We pray about it and this iswhat we're supposed to do.
Yeah yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (26:33):
Well, I also like to ask the question at the
end of is there something thatyou have, like both you and your
wife?
When I first met you guys, oneof the things I noticed right
off the bat is that you guys arevery much oriented around
serving people, serving thechurch, honoring God with your
(26:54):
resources and your life, and I'mwondering if that's part of a
theme statement you have foryour life.
So do you have like a little,maybe a family mission or a
personal statement that's likethis is who we are, this is what
we try and live by?
Van Kirkland (27:11):
Well, one thing we did at our church we were
directors of small groupministry and Acts 2.42 says that
they devoted themselves to theapostles' teaching fellowship,
prayer and communion.
So that was one of our that'sour sticky statement for sure,
with small groups.
So my heart is to be to develop.
(27:33):
I love small groups, yeah, andI love relationships with men.
I love to help developrelationships with them.
My favorite scripture is Isaiah50 and verse four.
It says the spirit of the Lordhas given me the tongue of the
learned to know how to speak aword in season to he that's
weary, and I believe thatthere's a lot of people who need
(27:57):
encouragement.
Piet Van Waarde (27:57):
There's a lot of people who need hope.
Van Kirkland (27:59):
There are a lot of people who are tired.
I mean, the world is draining Alot of people who are?
Tired.
I mean the world is draining,yeah, you know, whether it be
from, you know, politicalworldviews, even church, it can
be draining, you know.
So I just my belief is thatsmall groups are important,
developing young believers thatare playing Christian.
(28:25):
You know, I'm not judging them,but I believe that we all need
to disciple our young believers.
Yeah.
Piet Van Waarde (28:34):
Well, you certainly do it well, oh, we try
, and I just admire both you andDeb and the way you approach
life and I appreciate you takingsome time to share with me here
in the podcast.
Thank, you.
Van Kirkland (28:46):
Thank you, it's been an honor, all right.
Piet Van Waarde (28:48):
Okay, and thank you for joining us.
We are so appreciative of yourparticipation and I hope, if you
hear something through thispodcast that you think might be
of help to someone else, feelfree to share and certainly, if
you haven't already done so,subscribe to the channel and
thank you for joining us.
We'll see you next time.
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