September 2, 2025 • 30 mins
🎙 “Which Kid Wants It More?" Recruiting Lessons with Brandon Elliott
🥎 Virginia Wesleyan University’s Brandon Elliott has built one of the most successful programs in NCAA Division III softball—3 national championships, 11 ODAC titles, nearly 700 wins, and back-to-back trips to the College World Series. But when it comes to recruiting, his message is simple: the athletes who show they truly want to be there are the ones who stand out.
In this episode of the Significant Recruiting Podcast, Coach Elliott explains what coaches are really looking for when deciding between two equally talented players, how genuine investment and communication can set a recruit apart, and why “want-to” often outweighs raw ability. His insights give student-athletes and families a clear picture of what separates prospects who get recruited from those who get overlooked.
For families navigating this process, I’ve created tools to help you take ownership of your recruiting journey:
📚 Available now on Amazon:
- The Basketball Recruit’s Journal → https://amzn.to/428PDQd
- The Baseball Recruit’s Journal → https://amzn.to/4lO9ivT
- The Volleyball Recruit’s Journal → https://amzn.to/45I3WOb
- The Softball Recruit’s Journal → https://amzn.to/4lSXY1E
- Significant Recruiting: The Playbook for Prospective College Athletes → https://amzn.to/4nXiTCO
🔑 You can also find all of these resources at https://coachmattrogers.com/.
Learn more and connect with Matt Rogers here: https://linktr.ee/coachmattrogers
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
which kid is recruiting us more,right?
Is we're gonna be all in onthose kids.
But of those, if I've gottadecide between those two kids,
which one of those kids hasshown that they want to be here
more than the other becausethat's gonna be the biggest
piece.
If you're coming just because wewant you versus you want to be
here, that's gonna be adistinctive difference for us.
(00:33):
Welcome back to SignificantRecruiting.
I'm your host, Matt Rogers.
You just heard three timeNational Champion Coach, Brandon
Elliot, head softball coach atVirginia Wesleyan University,
and I love the way he framed it,which kid is recruiting us more.
At the end of the day, coacheswant athletes who truly want to
be on their campus, not justbecause the program is
(00:55):
interested in them That level ofcommitment can be the difference
between getting recruited andgetting passed over.
And speaking of commitment, I'mexcited to announce that the
Sport Recruit Journal series isofficially out today for
basketball, baseball,volleyball, and softball, and
they're all available@amazon.comor@coachmattrogers.com.
(01:16):
These journals are designed toguide any student athlete
through the recruiting process,helping you stay organized,
focused, and prepared for everystep of your journey.
They're the perfect companion tomy book, significant.
Recruiting the playbook forprospective college athletes.
All right, let's dive into thesecond part of my conversation
with coach Brandon Elliot.
(01:38):
Okay.
we just had a great conversationabout your program and about
what you've done to build thatculture there and protecting
that culture.
I want to dive into recruitingwith you because I know it's
such a big thing that you do,and it's such a big part of what
we all do as college coaches.
We talked about great pitchingand you gave a lot of love to
(01:58):
your pitching coaches over thepast.
This really goes back to helpinga parent think about the
recruiting process the rightway.
You got two pitchers, you loveyou.
You think they both can come inand be a big part of your
program, but you really onlyhave a spot for one of them.
What are some deciding factorswhen you're making that decision
(02:19):
to make an offer?
Talking about two kids.
Same ability?
Yeah.
Let's say they're both righties.
We'll do apples to apples, bothrighties throwing 62 63 mile an
hour.
Both can hit the strike zone.
Both throw three or fourpitches.
Both of'em throwing.
If both of'em are throwing 63,I'm gonna take'em both.
All right.
Let's say they're both throwing59, but I think it comes down
(02:41):
to, comes down to final spot onyour roster, right?
And you're looking at, and it'sgot, and you got two kids.
The most piece for me really isgonna be in which kid is
recruiting us more, right?
Is we're gonna be all in onthose kids.
But of those, if I've gottadecide between those two kids,
which one of those kids hasshown that they want to be here
more than the other becausethat's gonna be the biggest
(03:04):
piece.
If you're coming just because wewant you versus you want to be
here, that's gonna be adistinctive difference for us.
It's so important for a 16,17-year-old to know a, as much
as we want them to be 50 50 inthis, that you have to choose
the school as much as the coachhas to choose you.
(03:25):
You cannot be so vague with youremotion and your love of the
game and where you're gonna go,that you forget that.
You've gotta want that place,you've gotta want those people
just as much as they want you.
No doubt.
Yeah.
It's just relationship.
That that's what it boils downto.
And everybody says you gotta be50 50.
There's some days at home thatI'm doing 75, my wife's doing 25
(03:46):
very minimal days, but there'ssome days that she's doing the
90 and I'm doing the 10.
And it's, are we adding up tothat?
Because that's what does it.
And same thing with recruiting.
Like early on it, it might be 95us and 5% you.
As we're building relationships,we're getting through this.
I also need to know that I'mwanted as well, because that's
gonna have a kid that's gonnareally buy into what we're gonna
do culture wise, what our goalsand objectives are.
(04:07):
And that's also gonna be a kidfrom a longevity piece is, I'm
not trying to recruit two yearkids.
I'm trying to recruit four yearkids.
Yeah.
And so if a kid's that is theplace I want to be, that's where
I want to be.
That's who I wanna play for.
That's the women I wanna playwith.
That's a big deal to us.
Yeah, it should be.
I love that.
I have some rules about socialmedia.
'cause 10 years ago, if youwould've asked me about social
(04:29):
media, I'd say, I don't want mykids on it.
I don't wanna be on it.
Now I'm on everything.
But I have a rule that I don'tget into arguments.
I don't get debates.
And I hardly ever commentoutside of, Hey,
congratulations, way to go.
But there was a.
There was a prep school coachthat put something out on
Twitter the other day, and hewas all upset that one of his
(04:50):
kids got an offer from a D threecoach.
They go, how can this guy lie tothese kids about an offer when
there's no scholarship at Dthree?
He was so upset about it and Ihad to respond'cause I, I wanted
to strangle him and I couldn't,I didn't know where he was, so I
wasn't gonna strangle him.
How do you feel about the offerthat you're able to provide a
(05:11):
student athlete?
What does that mean to you as aD three coach?
First of all, we're, if that'swhat it's is we've gone to a
place where offers, the wordoffer's been thrown out there,
right?
And offer as in scholarship andthen from a division three
piece, even for me, it wassaying, Hey, this kid came and
she visited and you didn't offerher.
I remember saying a couple yearsago what do you want me to
(05:32):
offer?
We need you to offer.
I'm like, I told her we want herhere, we want her a part of the
program.
And that was very distinctive.
That, but you didn't say offer.
I'm like, oh my gosh.
And so for us it's likeunderstanding that we telling a
kid at the end of their visitthat we want you here.
If you wanna be a part of thisprogram, we want you here.
And that's a spot for you that'sinvolved with that.
And when it comes to offer, aslong as, I think his thought
(05:55):
process and it, and I'm justguessing, but I think his
thought process in this is maybepeople were saying offer, and
then families thought that therewas money involved with that.
Whereas if you're visiting andyou're communicating the right
way as a division three coach,you know that you're
communicating, there is noathletic scholarship and so you
should be going as a part ofthat in your visit, in that part
of the process.
(06:15):
Yeah.
And so if you're doing that andmaking sure that they offer.
What can they offer?
We're gonna talk about theacademic piece, but they don't
have to play softball here toget that.
They're going to get all thatfor us.
It's offering them anopportunity to be a part of our
program, whether they wanna seethat as a big thing or not.
If they don't see it as a bigthing, then they're not gonna
come anyway, right?
But it's an offer to be a partof our program and what comes
(06:35):
with that?
What's gonna come with that istwo things that I promised kids
in our visit is number one, asCoach Elliot and our staff,
we're gonna bust your tail.
And number two, we're gonna loveyou.
Those are the two things that Ican promise during an offer.
You come here and play for me.
I'm gonna get everything I canout of you, more out of you
think you can get.
And number two, I'm gonna, I'mgoing to love you.
And those are two things I canpromise.
(06:56):
Graduating on time, winning achampionship, doing all those
things.
I would love to say it'causeevery women in our program's
done all of those things, but Ican't promise you'cause those
things are hard and the academicpiece is on you.
And so that's really, when wetalk, offer, that's what it's a
spot opportunity to play in thisprogram.
I'm not sure what else you couldsay that it's you can say it's
offering your spot or.
(07:17):
You're getting an opportunity.
I don't know what verbiage folkswant you to live and be in, but
until you've been in that partof the business, I don't think
you really understand anyway.
To me it sounds like a personthat doesn't understand D three
athletics.
It's not intramurals whereanybody that comes to campus can
just have a jersey and beyondthe team.
You're busting your butt,whatever it is, 20, 25, 30
(07:38):
girls, whatever your roster sizeis.
It's important for you thatyou're filling that roster with
great people who can play andmake your team better.
And everyone's making theirrecruiting decisions based off
their non-negotiables that areunique to them.
And to, to that coach's point,if finance, if finances are the
(07:58):
number one driving force forthat child and that family to
make their decision.
If that's the only and thenumber one driving force and
they have opportunities to getathletic scholarship, junior
colleges in ai, whatever it maybe, if that's the number one
driving force, then maybeDivision III isn't for them.
And that's what I try to tellpeople is that's okay.
(08:18):
It is okay.
That is your non-negotiable.
So what are your non-negotiablesin this process and how are we
ranking them?
If it's opportunity to go outand play right away, then let's
find a program that you're gonnaplay right away.
And if somebody else that you'renot gonna play for makes you an
offer, a financial offer, andyou don't want that'cause you
wanna play right away, thenthat's what you wanna do.
And that's okay.
(08:39):
'cause that's up to you If it's,I want big school.
That's great.
We're not for you.
I want football.
I've heard that before.
I gotta go to school that hasfootball.
Okay.
In my opinion, I don't thinkthat's a, an area where you
should be making your decisionon, but this is a four year
decision for me.
It's a lifetime decision foryou, so you need to make a
decision for you.
And I try not to put people inbuckets when they're doing those
(09:00):
because everybody's decisionmaking is gonna be based on what
their non-negotiables are withtheir family dynamic and what it
is.
And that's okay.
That's what makes this thinggreat and there's so many
different places that you cango, but it's looking at that
and, in a perfect world if a kidhas put themself academically in
a position or a family's putthemselves in a financial
position, that the money sideisn't going to matter.
(09:22):
Those student athletes also needto understand how very blessed
that they are.
Step mom and dad have putthemselves in a position to go
there and then they can figureout where they want to go.
That's right.
The D one or bus mentality, ifthat's a kid's non-negotiable,
good for them.
That's great.
Let them do that and they can goto any division one that they or
have an opportunity to play at.
And who am I to join?
(09:42):
Yeah.
And so I just careful not to dothat and I read it.
If that's your mentality andthat's the direction you wanna
go, then we're gonna go aheadand slide in and go in a
different direction.
Everybody's got theirnon-negotiables and those are
important to each family.
Yeah.
I teach families that, this iswhat I do for a living and, but
I teach families the moneyshould be the last thing you
worry about.
'cause at the end of the day,everybody's gonna give you a
(10:03):
financial aid report.
The D two might give you a$7,000athletic scholarship, but your
bottom line.
Might be better at VirginiaWesley and the D three'cause
they're giving you more academicmoney and grant money and
institutional money, even thoughnothing is athletic, you might
be getting more money there.
Correct.
(10:24):
It's great advice for familiesto, that you're giving, and I
know you don't wanna step intoit and give you opinion on and
make kids decide what's best forthem, but at the end of the day.
You're gonna be happier if yougo to a place where you love the
people, you love the culture,you love the academics.
And if the money is right,great, right.
Everything else has to be therefirst for me but everybody's
(10:46):
price on happy factor isdifferent.
And That's right.
Sometimes we've gotta besensitive to that and.
Certainly have families that areinvesting in that, that, that
didn't think that they would andothers that, that have chosen
not to.
And again, at the end of the dayI, at the end of the day, I
think God's gonna put people inour program that are supposed to
be here anyway.
He just wants to make me work alittle extra harder some days
for that.
As a believer too, right?
I think at the end of the day,that's what I try to tell a lot
(11:07):
of kids.
I'm early in the process, I'mlate in the process.
I'm like, you're not early orlate.
You're in your own lane runningyour own race.
Everybody's gonna run a mile.
You just might run it slower orfaster than the other person.
And that's fine as long as youfinish the mile.
But for those that claim to bebelievers, at the end of the
day, you're gonna be whereyou're supposed to be anyway.
All right.
Let's put you on a field.
You're recruiting, you'rewatching two teams play live.
(11:31):
What are some of those thingsthat get your internal bell ring
and we'll go around the fieldfor a, let's start with a
catcher.
What are some of the things yousee a catcher do at 16,
17-year-old that just goes, ohGod, I gotta see more of this
kid.
As soon as they come out on the,on, on the field, right?
And whether it's the fist bumpto the umpire or that, that
confidence in that swag and howthey're receiving, and it's not
(11:53):
a show, but it's just easy andthe throw down and how they're
managing the game.
So that confidence piece from acatcher is like, all right,
let's start taking a peek atthis kid a little bit.
So it's not the 1.8 pop time andhow strong their arm is.
It's a, it's about presencefirst.
Yeah.
And I can tell you right nowthat, everybody's gonna scream
and pop times are great, butwho's recording?
(12:15):
It could be Johnny Fat Fingers.
When are they starting it?
When are they finishing it?
All that type of things.
If they're throwing every baserunner out that steals, then I
don't really care what their poptime is, because, like somebody
says with slappers.
How fast do you want your kidsfrom home to first?
And my answer is always thesame.
Safe.
I want'em to be safe.
If every time I go see her, shehappens to be safe.
I don't have a stopwatch and I'mdifferent.
(12:36):
Yeah, but pop times are great,but there's this caveat that
everybody wants their kids to bea 1, 6, 7, a one, seven A one,
whatever.
But in a day I can throw a 1, 6,7 up to the top of the, top of
the can, and my kids are jumpingup to catch it and we're still
safe.
I, honestly, I think a catchercan be a 2.0 pop time straight
down.
And if that catcher's a 2.0 andshe's right on top of the bag
every time she's gotta, throwmore runners out than the one
(12:56):
eight that's a little biterratic.
And those things are great, butI'm not looking at those numbers
until I'm looking at somethinglive and seeing how they
respond.
All right.
Let's jump to the outfield andI'm gonna put some context with
this one.
Let's say you're gonna graduateyour three and four hitters.
You're losing a lot of power.
Kids that hit those doubles ofthe wall, give you a couple home
runs every season.
Are you thinking about replacingthat power or are you thinking
(13:20):
about, boy, that kid can reallyplay, I'm going at that kid can
really play?
I think it's a slippery slopewhen you start replacing people.
And trying to get kids to fillshoes is ultimately what we want
to do, is we want, we may losewe may lose an All American at
third base, and I don't want tobe like, Hey, I gotta replace my
All American.
And then I put all of that intothat kid.
(13:40):
You know that's coming in as afreshman to hit four 20 and hit
eight home runs with 50 rbis.
No.
I would love if that happens,but if that kid can come in and
hit 360 play good defense.
Maybe shit's a couple home runsand hits 30.
Okay, then we've lost somenumbers.
Now I expect my.
Junior shortstop, who's a seniornow to have a little bit better
number.
So we should recover some ofthose numbers from that
(14:00):
position.
Or, Hey, we had a kid playingthis position and now we've got
a kid coming in that's a littlebit better.
So we replaced the senior with akid that's offensively.
And so it's really more sotrying to take the team as a
whole and saying this is what wegotta do as a team.
Here's what we got coming back.
Here's what we've lost, and thenthis kid should be a little
better.
This kid should be a littlebetter.
This kid should be a littlebetter.
And then we fill the gaps inwith everybody else versus.
(14:23):
I'm gonna replace one kid withone kid.
When Hannah Hall graduated, howare you gonna replace Hannah
Hall?
I'm like, hell no.
Probably not gonna replace her.
And so maybe we got deeper inthe circle.
So instead of having one bigtime arm, we had two or three
arms and we worked through thatand navigated and we just
started playing better defense.
That's right.
So it's just trying to nit,nitpick that a little bit.
I'm not gonna not recruit a kidthat I really because I'm
(14:45):
worried about replacingsomething else.
I hate to use baseball as a, asan example here, but, and I, and
this is hard for me to see outloud.
'cause as you can see, I'm aCubs fan.
What we're seeing the Milwaukeebrewers do with their lineup and
the pitchers that they've lostand the hitters that they've
lost, it seems like every kid inthat lineup knows how to see the
(15:10):
ball and drive the ball whereit's pitched.
And they can all run.
They can all run.
I'm a Mets fan, so it's been areally hard life for me.
But but yeah, I, one of thethings and I didn't dig into the
context of it, but they saideverybody in their lineup was
under five 10.
Yeah.
Or under six foot, I should say.
Yeah.
And that's an anomaly in MajorLeague baseball.
But they do all of the littlethings and they do them very
well.
Yeah.
(15:30):
So I love that's your approachto recruiting.
Is there something that gets youexcited about outfield when
you're watching outfielders?
Is there something that you'rejust like, God I love that type
of game.
Outfield, outfields my jam.
That's my jam.
That's where I live.
And I talk about it all thetime.
I need to go get'em outfielder.
That's the kid.
And that's usually in centerfield that's just happening to
run everything all the way everyeverything down, and tracking
(15:52):
balls and taking away balls inthe gap and doing those things.
And I think it's undervalued,right?
And those things and very seldomdo you see a GoGet'em outfielder
'cause nobody really zones inand focuses specifically on
outfield.
And yeah, I think you can findsome corner kids that can do
things and swing the bat and besufficient out there.
But a really go get'em centerfielder that covers a ton of
ground is just really.
(16:13):
It's elite, but it's also theydon't, you don't, they don't
make'em like that anymore.
No.
As a Mets fan, I'll personallythank you for Pete Crow
Armstrong.
We really appreciate it.
Yeah, that was that was a toughpill to swallow.
I appreciate it.
How I'm gonna love watching himplay for the next 15 years out
there, Ridley.
All right.
Let's go to the infield thirdbase.
I know everybody talks aboutshort stops, but for me, for
(16:35):
softball.
Third base has to be a rockstar.
What are you looking for whenyou're recruiting third base
grit.
Somebody's not afraid to get intheir cookies, right?
You like to see somebody thatcan get up in front of the bla
in front of the bag and reallytake away the short game and do
those types of things but alsois athletic enough to move,
behind the bag.
And we like to play behind thebag quite often and then come in
front to take away the shortgame.
(16:56):
And so if we're able to takesomebody that's agile enough as
a shortstop and move them overto third base.
But they're a little bit, alittle bit arrogant in what
they're doing and coming andtaking things away.
That's just powerful for us.
Fearless component too.
Oh, no doubt.
Because that's a position Iwouldn't wanna play.
Yeah, me too.
Yeah.
I was a catcher all the waythrough school and, but I, when
(17:18):
I got a chance to play third, itwas just, it's a whole different
world in terms of yourconfidence and your grit.
No doubt.
Let's talk about up the middle.
What are you looking for up themiddle?
Honestly, and nobody's probablygonna say this out loud, I look
at their glove, not their glovework.
If a kid goes out there and thegloves' formed a little bit
different and it's got a littleswag to it and it's got that
kind of baseball atmosphere thatdraw, I'm zoning in that draws
(17:40):
my attention and I'm gonna watchthat kid a little bit longer.
Maybe I'm the only one.
But it's just one of those weirdthings that you gravitate to and
you're like, Hey man, usuallybad players don't have great
gloves.
And I said usually not all thetime, but usually.
And so that, I'll see that andjust kinda how they move and you
see a kid that works reallyhard, just to, getting the pre,
in between inning ground ballsand how hard it is.
(18:03):
And then you see those freeflowing kids that it's just a
game and it's quick and easy andit's almost like they're showing
all Yeah.
And you just watch that.
And that's the thing that makesme wanna watch a little bit
more.
Yeah.
It's the Captain America.
Keep bringing it.
I can do this all day.
Yeah.
The glove looks like it'sreceived more ground balls than
what a glove should havereceived.
(18:23):
Yep.
Yeah.
I love it.
All right.
Talk about your first baseman.
What do we, we get at everylevel.
Doesn't matter if softball,baseball, doesn't matter if it's
club all the way through pro.
Seems like that's a powerposition.
Is that a power position?
Is the bat important for youover there?
It certainly is, but I thinkit's super underrated
defensively, especially in agame that's so fast.
And a game that's so fast, Ithink we can get away with some
(18:44):
things in baseball a little bitmore.
But in softball, those picks andbackhand picks and those types
of plays and covering the buntsare just, they're so quick and
so it's just a little bit moreimportant with the small game,
the way that goes to be moreefficient defensively over there
at first base.
But again, it's glove work forme, right?
If they've got a, I've got adead bunny ear over there that's
swapping around in the wind.
But I wanna see somebody that'spopping off the bag, that's
(19:06):
receiving, snapping through it,throwing the ball around and
really has some energy overthere.
Is just really important, whatwe're looking at.
We've talked about it already inthe past podcast, but you've had
some stud pitchers you talkedabout Hannah, again what do you
have to see are there red flagsto the picture that maybe you'll
walk away from?
Or are there certain things thatyou're like, God.
(19:28):
That's a kid that can throw,that's a kid that's gonna
develop into something specialbecause it's seems like it's so
hard to identify some of thosethings.
Yeah.
And I think that's why film's sohard because you don't really
kinda get a grasp of it on film,but.
I want a kid that commands thecircle.
A kid that commands the circlewith confidence.
And one of the things we talkabout, Hannah Hurl, who's with
us now, not Hannah Hall, who waswith Hannah Hurl, that's with us
(19:51):
now that makes her great.
Is sometimes you go watch herand you're like, is this is, and
people I've heard people say, isthis kid that special?
I don't understand.
Everywhere Hannah Hurl isplayed, Hannah Hurl has won.
Something about it.
And I think about a young ladynamed Carla Hall that played for
me.
People were like, oh, shedoesn't do a whole lot.
I'm like, I don't know whatyou're talking about, but she
wins.
(20:12):
When she gets the ball, shewins, her teams win.
She's in championships.
And so following kids that justseem to always win and always be
in that moment is good.
And for us it's swings andmisses and weak contact.
Watched a kid the other day,that from a velocity standpoint
wasn't where I like to seevelocity, but every time I see
her pitch, she gets a ton ofswings and misses and a lot of
(20:36):
weak contact.
And there's something to be saidabout that.
That ball's doing something toconfuse hitters or she's hiding
it or spinning it.
Is important.
And yeah, we wanna light theradar gun up, but there's a
couple kids this summer thatwere 61, 62, which is really
exciting for us.
But every time I saw them play,it was really hard contact.
Yeah.
Hard contact every time we play,which tells me the ball's not
(20:57):
moving as much.
And those are the things that weI identify a little bit with
pitching and it's worked out forus to be successful.
Hannah Hall I saw, speaking ofHannah Hall, who's gonna get in
our Hall of Fame here inOctober.
She I remember watching her as asophomore.
A friend of mine sent me out tosee her and she was 54, 55.
She was okay.
But what I saw was very highlegs very very high legs and
(21:20):
very long levers.
And I was like, this kid's got ashot and she was left handed, so
that didn't hurt.
So let's just follow up with heror follow it up with her as a
junior.
All of a sudden it was 58, 59with a little bit of life, and
it was weird.
It was a weird 58, 59.
There was a lot of swings andmisses, a lot of weak contact.
Nobody was really payingattention to her.
And then that was like, Hey, weneed to go get this kid and we
(21:42):
need to go get this kid now.
Yeah, and that was on aSaturday.
She visited her on a Tuesday andcommitted and.
The next six months we were justpraying that nobody else would
steal it from us.
And then we did that for thenext four years.
We were praying that nobodystole it from us.
I don't miss, that's one of thethings I don't miss, waiting,
the, waiting for that greatplayer to tell you they, oh, I
just gotta make sure they'rehere and in class on the first
(22:03):
day.
Yeah.
Exactly.
That's the difference with beinga D three coach.
You're it's not the commitmenton February 15th, it's the first
day of school on August,whatever it is, 26th.
Are they in class?
You know what I mean?
Gimme a piece of advice for akid that would love to play at
Virginia Wesleyan.
How do they get ahold of you?
How do they reach out to you ina way that you want that says,
(22:26):
Hey coach, I'm interested inyou.
Would you evaluate me?
Certainly, everybody's gonna goto email, right?
Certainly email.
But we'll see.
Just since you and I have beentalking here, I've got 138
emails not that just came inthere, but since you and I have
been talking on this smaller 15minute segment I've gotten 27
new emails in there and some of'em, and it's not even
tournament time, right?
And so some of that gets lost inthe shuffle.
We see everything that comesthrough and we filter all that.
(22:48):
But what's unique about is thekid that continues to send
stuff, and so sending emails andcommunicating without.
Being okay without getting aresponse.
And I say that for my divisionone colleagues and some of my
division two colleagues becausethere's certain times that they
can't respond.
That's right.
That's right.
And so us not responding isn'tnecessarily normally not seeing
or not reading it.
(23:09):
If I continue to see BrandonElliot.
Brandon Elliot.
Brandon Elliot.
Brandon Elliot, and I'm deletingthese Brandon Elliot emails, but
they keep coming in.
They keep coming in and we'retrying to file'em.
Eventually they're like, we'vegot to go see this kid.
This kid's continuing to followup on us, continuing to send and
those are the genuine emailsand.
When we won the NationalChampionship in 2017, somebody
said, you need to make sure whenthey're on visits, you tell'em
(23:31):
that.
Like they know.
Everybody knows.
They don't because it'd beinteresting.
I get emails like,congratulations on a season that
you guys had.
So it was a generic even,instead of, Hey, congrats you
guys won a nationalchampionship.
I'm super interested in that.
Or, for us this year, man, whatan incredible run.
You guys, finished this runnersup.
That's a program and what, sodoing some research in that
email because.
(23:51):
You're gonna have your emailthat you're sending out to the
masses just like we do.
But then you're gonna have thatemail that I'm sending just to
Virginia Westley or just to,Brandon Elliot.
And so somehow, if that schoolis important to you, making that
email personable so we know thatthis is coming just to us, not
to somebody else.
(24:11):
I beat parents up a lot morethan they deserve because I'm a
tough love when it comes toparents, especially on the
recruiting side.
'cause there's so much cl headin the cloud kind of talk about
recruiting.
What's your best piece of adviceto parents that have a daughter
that's going through thisjourney?
Think to be transparent withthem at the beginning of the
journey of what you can do.
(24:33):
Whether that is financially,whether that is distance wise,
whether like, where are yourthoughts on that?
Because sometimes thoseconversations happen after a
kid's fall in love with a place.
And again, we talked earlier,there's some non-negotiables.
There's some kids that arepaying their own way.
There's some parents that have aset dollar amount and this is
what I can afford to help mykid.
(24:54):
And being able to have that,that if it's not a concern, then
Hey, you go where you want.
But if there is a thing like,Hey, I, I've got$18,000 a year,
mom and I have saved and that'sthe best that we could do.
And we're help, we're happy totake out loans and, but you're
gonna have to help from$18,000plus, or whatever.
So then that kid knows, alright,where am I at in the ballpark?
(25:16):
And being able to walk throughthat.
Just that transparency of whatthe expectations are from a
parent.
And, and it's hard because I,I'm figuring it out with my own
kids and it's hard'cause I'm notin that decision as the parent.
But giving them your opinionwhen they ask for your opinion,
because you're gonna go on thesevisits with them and you're
(25:37):
gonna have your opinions, butsometimes your opinion doesn't
match up with theirs.
And I think when it comes downto that important of a decision,
that there should be arelational piece where it's
alright dad, I'm strugglingbetween school A, B, and C.
I would like to hear what yourthoughts are.
Can you help me walk through it?
Versus feeding them thatimmediately.
(25:59):
Because this has to be a selfishdecision for them.
This is the first decision intheir life that's all about
them.
As parents, we've gotta besupportive in any way that we
can to support them in thatdecision.
And if it's a complete red flagfor you as a parent, you're
gonna know that and your knower.
And I'm not saying to keep thataway'cause you don't want your
(26:20):
kid going if you saw somethingcrazy you don't want.
But just trying to kind whiteglove it a little bit.
Let them walk through theprocess.
And I think the last thing isfor parents not to get up in
arms about a deadline.
And what I mean by deadline, I'mnot talking about schools that
deadline you.
I think if scholarship dollarsare involved or if roster spots
(26:42):
are at stake, each program candeadline and give deadlines
because I understand theimportance of that.
But sometimes we have thesearbitrary deadlines like
September 1st, my 2020 sevens,gotta figure it out.
That's the beginning.
That's when division ones canreach out.
And just because social mediashows that these 15 kids
committed on September 1stdoesn't mean that's the same
timeline for your child.
(27:04):
That's right.
Is they're dead.
I honestly believe kids aregonna know when they know.
That's right.
And I, one of my best friends,his daughter called me last year
on, on her way back from avisit, and it was between two
schools.
And she said, my dad told me Ineeded to call you and you help
me through making this decision.
And I said, all right you tellme about the schools.
(27:24):
She talked all about school A,she talked all about school B.
She talked glowingly about bothof them and their programs and
their coaches, but I could tellin her voice that she was
leaning one way.
Yeah.
And all I told her was I justsaid, Hey listen, you have
already made up your mind.
You're just wanting somebodyelse to tell you what to do.
I said, but you already know.
She's which 1:00 AM I leaningto?
(27:44):
I said, I'm not gonna say it.
I said, could, because I said,where you're struggling is you
are so in love with bothprograms and both coaches.
You just don't wanna disappointone or the other.
Yeah.
And I said, this is a big girlconversation and you just need
to go ahead and call that coachand tell them that you're
looking to go to the otherschool.
(28:04):
And I said, because you'vealready made up your mind.
She called me the next day andshe said, I'm going to so and
and I said, that's where Ifigured you were going.
She's like, how'd you know?
I said, I heard it in yourvoice.
I said, you loved both of them.
Yeah.
You just wanted somebody else togive you the answer'cause you're
afraid to make the wrongdecision.
So that I think that's key intothat is those open conversations
forward.
Yeah, I love it, coach.
(28:27):
It's a true joy to get to knowyou and meet you and to have
this conversation with you.
Virginia Westland's really luckyto have you, and I'm sure they
know that.
But I'm so happy that we have anaudience across the country now
that now knows there's anothergreat school out there that they
can look at.
And if they have a daughterthat's playing softball, this
would be a great opportunity forthem to take a look and learn
(28:47):
more about it.
So thank you for doing this andwe'll be cheering for you.
I appreciate it.
And reach out Virginia Wesleyanand Virginia Beach is a great
place to be.
There's no question.
Thanks, coach.
Thanks you, sir.
That was my conversation withCoach Brandon Elliot, and what a
powerful reminder about whatreally matters in recruiting.
Coaches aren't just evaluatingtalent, they're asking which kid
(29:11):
wants to be here more?
Effort, intentionality andgenuine interest can matter
almost as much as skill.
If you're recruit, that's achallenge to you.
Show them every step of the waythat you are fully invested, and
if you're looking for tools tohelp you stay focused and
organized on your recruitingjourney.
Remember, the Sports RecruitJournal series is out now for
(29:35):
basketball, baseball,volleyball, and softball.
Soccer is coming soon, Ipromise.
They're designed as week by weekguides for any student athlete
who wants to own their processand stand out.
They're also a perfect companionto my book, significant
Recruiting, the Playbook forprospective college athletes.
You can find them alltoday@amazon.com
(29:58):
and@coachmattrogers.com.
Until next time, stay focused,stay humble, and keep working to
be the recruit who truly wantsto be there.
which kid is recruiting us more,right?
Is we're gonna be all in onthose kids.
But of those, if I've gottadecide between those two kids,
which one of those kids hasshown that they want to be here
more than the other becausethat's gonna be the biggest
piece.
If you're coming just because wewant you versus you want to be
here, that's gonna be adistinctive difference for us.
(00:33):
Welcome back to SignificantRecruiting.
I'm your host, Matt Rogers.
You just heard three timeNational Champion Coach, Brandon
Elliot, head softball coach atVirginia Wesleyan University,
and I love the way he framed it,which kid is recruiting us more.
At the end of the day, coacheswant athletes who truly want to
be on their campus, not justbecause the program is
(00:55):
interested in them That level ofcommitment can be the difference
between getting recruited andgetting passed over.
And speaking of commitment, I'mexcited to announce that the
Sport Recruit Journal series isofficially out today for
basketball, baseball,volleyball, and softball, and
they're all available@amazon.comor@coachmattrogers.com.
(01:16):
These journals are designed toguide any student athlete
through the recruiting process,helping you stay organized,
focused, and prepared for everystep of your journey.
They're the perfect companion tomy book, significant.
Recruiting the playbook forprospective college athletes.
All right, let's dive into thesecond part of my conversation
with coach Brandon Elliot.
(01:38):
Okay.
we just had a great conversationabout your program and about
what you've done to build thatculture there and protecting
that culture.
I want to dive into recruitingwith you because I know it's
such a big thing that you do,and it's such a big part of what
we all do as college coaches.
We talked about great pitchingand you gave a lot of love to
(01:58):
your pitching coaches over thepast.
This really goes back to helpinga parent think about the
recruiting process the rightway.
You got two pitchers, you loveyou.
You think they both can come inand be a big part of your
program, but you really onlyhave a spot for one of them.
What are some deciding factorswhen you're making that decision
(02:19):
to make an offer?
Talking about two kids.
Same ability?
Yeah.
Let's say they're both righties.
We'll do apples to apples, bothrighties throwing 62 63 mile an
hour.
Both can hit the strike zone.
Both throw three or fourpitches.
Both of'em throwing.
If both of'em are throwing 63,I'm gonna take'em both.
All right.
Let's say they're both throwing59, but I think it comes down
(02:41):
to, comes down to final spot onyour roster, right?
And you're looking at, and it'sgot, and you got two kids.
The most piece for me really isgonna be in which kid is
recruiting us more, right?
Is we're gonna be all in onthose kids.
But of those, if I've gottadecide between those two kids,
which one of those kids hasshown that they want to be here
more than the other becausethat's gonna be the biggest
(03:04):
piece.
If you're coming just because wewant you versus you want to be
here, that's gonna be adistinctive difference for us.
It's so important for a 16,17-year-old to know a, as much
as we want them to be 50 50 inthis, that you have to choose
the school as much as the coachhas to choose you.
(03:25):
You cannot be so vague with youremotion and your love of the
game and where you're gonna go,that you forget that.
You've gotta want that place,you've gotta want those people
just as much as they want you.
No doubt.
Yeah.
It's just relationship.
That that's what it boils downto.
And everybody says you gotta be50 50.
There's some days at home thatI'm doing 75, my wife's doing 25
(03:46):
very minimal days, but there'ssome days that she's doing the
90 and I'm doing the 10.
And it's, are we adding up tothat?
Because that's what does it.
And same thing with recruiting.
Like early on it, it might be 95us and 5% you.
As we're building relationships,we're getting through this.
I also need to know that I'mwanted as well, because that's
gonna have a kid that's gonnareally buy into what we're gonna
do culture wise, what our goalsand objectives are.
(04:07):
And that's also gonna be a kidfrom a longevity piece is, I'm
not trying to recruit two yearkids.
I'm trying to recruit four yearkids.
Yeah.
And so if a kid's that is theplace I want to be, that's where
I want to be.
That's who I wanna play for.
That's the women I wanna playwith.
That's a big deal to us.
Yeah, it should be.
I love that.
I have some rules about socialmedia.
'cause 10 years ago, if youwould've asked me about social
(04:29):
media, I'd say, I don't want mykids on it.
I don't wanna be on it.
Now I'm on everything.
But I have a rule that I don'tget into arguments.
I don't get debates.
And I hardly ever commentoutside of, Hey,
congratulations, way to go.
But there was a.
There was a prep school coachthat put something out on
Twitter the other day, and hewas all upset that one of his
(04:50):
kids got an offer from a D threecoach.
They go, how can this guy lie tothese kids about an offer when
there's no scholarship at Dthree?
He was so upset about it and Ihad to respond'cause I, I wanted
to strangle him and I couldn't,I didn't know where he was, so I
wasn't gonna strangle him.
How do you feel about the offerthat you're able to provide a
(05:11):
student athlete?
What does that mean to you as aD three coach?
First of all, we're, if that'swhat it's is we've gone to a
place where offers, the wordoffer's been thrown out there,
right?
And offer as in scholarship andthen from a division three
piece, even for me, it wassaying, Hey, this kid came and
she visited and you didn't offerher.
I remember saying a couple yearsago what do you want me to
(05:32):
offer?
We need you to offer.
I'm like, I told her we want herhere, we want her a part of the
program.
And that was very distinctive.
That, but you didn't say offer.
I'm like, oh my gosh.
And so for us it's likeunderstanding that we telling a
kid at the end of their visitthat we want you here.
If you wanna be a part of thisprogram, we want you here.
And that's a spot for you that'sinvolved with that.
And when it comes to offer, aslong as, I think his thought
(05:55):
process and it, and I'm justguessing, but I think his
thought process in this is maybepeople were saying offer, and
then families thought that therewas money involved with that.
Whereas if you're visiting andyou're communicating the right
way as a division three coach,you know that you're
communicating, there is noathletic scholarship and so you
should be going as a part ofthat in your visit, in that part
of the process.
(06:15):
Yeah.
And so if you're doing that andmaking sure that they offer.
What can they offer?
We're gonna talk about theacademic piece, but they don't
have to play softball here toget that.
They're going to get all thatfor us.
It's offering them anopportunity to be a part of our
program, whether they wanna seethat as a big thing or not.
If they don't see it as a bigthing, then they're not gonna
come anyway, right?
But it's an offer to be a partof our program and what comes
(06:35):
with that?
What's gonna come with that istwo things that I promised kids
in our visit is number one, asCoach Elliot and our staff,
we're gonna bust your tail.
And number two, we're gonna loveyou.
Those are the two things that Ican promise during an offer.
You come here and play for me.
I'm gonna get everything I canout of you, more out of you
think you can get.
And number two, I'm gonna, I'mgoing to love you.
And those are two things I canpromise.
(06:56):
Graduating on time, winning achampionship, doing all those
things.
I would love to say it'causeevery women in our program's
done all of those things, but Ican't promise you'cause those
things are hard and the academicpiece is on you.
And so that's really, when wetalk, offer, that's what it's a
spot opportunity to play in thisprogram.
I'm not sure what else you couldsay that it's you can say it's
offering your spot or.
(07:17):
You're getting an opportunity.
I don't know what verbiage folkswant you to live and be in, but
until you've been in that partof the business, I don't think
you really understand anyway.
To me it sounds like a personthat doesn't understand D three
athletics.
It's not intramurals whereanybody that comes to campus can
just have a jersey and beyondthe team.
You're busting your butt,whatever it is, 20, 25, 30
(07:38):
girls, whatever your roster sizeis.
It's important for you thatyou're filling that roster with
great people who can play andmake your team better.
And everyone's making theirrecruiting decisions based off
their non-negotiables that areunique to them.
And to, to that coach's point,if finance, if finances are the
(07:58):
number one driving force forthat child and that family to
make their decision.
If that's the only and thenumber one driving force and
they have opportunities to getathletic scholarship, junior
colleges in ai, whatever it maybe, if that's the number one
driving force, then maybeDivision III isn't for them.
And that's what I try to tellpeople is that's okay.
(08:18):
It is okay.
That is your non-negotiable.
So what are your non-negotiablesin this process and how are we
ranking them?
If it's opportunity to go outand play right away, then let's
find a program that you're gonnaplay right away.
And if somebody else that you'renot gonna play for makes you an
offer, a financial offer, andyou don't want that'cause you
wanna play right away, thenthat's what you wanna do.
And that's okay.
(08:39):
'cause that's up to you If it's,I want big school.
That's great.
We're not for you.
I want football.
I've heard that before.
I gotta go to school that hasfootball.
Okay.
In my opinion, I don't thinkthat's a, an area where you
should be making your decisionon, but this is a four year
decision for me.
It's a lifetime decision foryou, so you need to make a
decision for you.
And I try not to put people inbuckets when they're doing those
(09:00):
because everybody's decisionmaking is gonna be based on what
their non-negotiables are withtheir family dynamic and what it
is.
And that's okay.
That's what makes this thinggreat and there's so many
different places that you cango, but it's looking at that
and, in a perfect world if a kidhas put themself academically in
a position or a family's putthemselves in a financial
position, that the money sideisn't going to matter.
(09:22):
Those student athletes also needto understand how very blessed
that they are.
Step mom and dad have putthemselves in a position to go
there and then they can figureout where they want to go.
That's right.
The D one or bus mentality, ifthat's a kid's non-negotiable,
good for them.
That's great.
Let them do that and they can goto any division one that they or
have an opportunity to play at.
And who am I to join?
(09:42):
Yeah.
And so I just careful not to dothat and I read it.
If that's your mentality andthat's the direction you wanna
go, then we're gonna go aheadand slide in and go in a
different direction.
Everybody's got theirnon-negotiables and those are
important to each family.
Yeah.
I teach families that, this iswhat I do for a living and, but
I teach families the moneyshould be the last thing you
worry about.
'cause at the end of the day,everybody's gonna give you a
(10:03):
financial aid report.
The D two might give you a$7,000athletic scholarship, but your
bottom line.
Might be better at VirginiaWesley and the D three'cause
they're giving you more academicmoney and grant money and
institutional money, even thoughnothing is athletic, you might
be getting more money there.
Correct.
(10:24):
It's great advice for familiesto, that you're giving, and I
know you don't wanna step intoit and give you opinion on and
make kids decide what's best forthem, but at the end of the day.
You're gonna be happier if yougo to a place where you love the
people, you love the culture,you love the academics.
And if the money is right,great, right.
Everything else has to be therefirst for me but everybody's
(10:46):
price on happy factor isdifferent.
And That's right.
Sometimes we've gotta besensitive to that and.
Certainly have families that areinvesting in that, that, that
didn't think that they would andothers that, that have chosen
not to.
And again, at the end of the dayI, at the end of the day, I
think God's gonna put people inour program that are supposed to
be here anyway.
He just wants to make me work alittle extra harder some days
for that.
As a believer too, right?
I think at the end of the day,that's what I try to tell a lot
(11:07):
of kids.
I'm early in the process, I'mlate in the process.
I'm like, you're not early orlate.
You're in your own lane runningyour own race.
Everybody's gonna run a mile.
You just might run it slower orfaster than the other person.
And that's fine as long as youfinish the mile.
But for those that claim to bebelievers, at the end of the
day, you're gonna be whereyou're supposed to be anyway.
All right.
Let's put you on a field.
You're recruiting, you'rewatching two teams play live.
(11:31):
What are some of those thingsthat get your internal bell ring
and we'll go around the fieldfor a, let's start with a
catcher.
What are some of the things yousee a catcher do at 16,
17-year-old that just goes, ohGod, I gotta see more of this
kid.
As soon as they come out on the,on, on the field, right?
And whether it's the fist bumpto the umpire or that, that
confidence in that swag and howthey're receiving, and it's not
(11:53):
a show, but it's just easy andthe throw down and how they're
managing the game.
So that confidence piece from acatcher is like, all right,
let's start taking a peek atthis kid a little bit.
So it's not the 1.8 pop time andhow strong their arm is.
It's a, it's about presencefirst.
Yeah.
And I can tell you right nowthat, everybody's gonna scream
and pop times are great, butwho's recording?
(12:15):
It could be Johnny Fat Fingers.
When are they starting it?
When are they finishing it?
All that type of things.
If they're throwing every baserunner out that steals, then I
don't really care what their poptime is, because, like somebody
says with slappers.
How fast do you want your kidsfrom home to first?
And my answer is always thesame.
Safe.
I want'em to be safe.
If every time I go see her, shehappens to be safe.
I don't have a stopwatch and I'mdifferent.
(12:36):
Yeah, but pop times are great,but there's this caveat that
everybody wants their kids to bea 1, 6, 7, a one, seven A one,
whatever.
But in a day I can throw a 1, 6,7 up to the top of the, top of
the can, and my kids are jumpingup to catch it and we're still
safe.
I, honestly, I think a catchercan be a 2.0 pop time straight
down.
And if that catcher's a 2.0 andshe's right on top of the bag
every time she's gotta, throwmore runners out than the one
(12:56):
eight that's a little biterratic.
And those things are great, butI'm not looking at those numbers
until I'm looking at somethinglive and seeing how they
respond.
All right.
Let's jump to the outfield andI'm gonna put some context with
this one.
Let's say you're gonna graduateyour three and four hitters.
You're losing a lot of power.
Kids that hit those doubles ofthe wall, give you a couple home
runs every season.
Are you thinking about replacingthat power or are you thinking
(13:20):
about, boy, that kid can reallyplay, I'm going at that kid can
really play?
I think it's a slippery slopewhen you start replacing people.
And trying to get kids to fillshoes is ultimately what we want
to do, is we want, we may losewe may lose an All American at
third base, and I don't want tobe like, Hey, I gotta replace my
All American.
And then I put all of that intothat kid.
(13:40):
You know that's coming in as afreshman to hit four 20 and hit
eight home runs with 50 rbis.
No.
I would love if that happens,but if that kid can come in and
hit 360 play good defense.
Maybe shit's a couple home runsand hits 30.
Okay, then we've lost somenumbers.
Now I expect my.
Junior shortstop, who's a seniornow to have a little bit better
number.
So we should recover some ofthose numbers from that
(14:00):
position.
Or, Hey, we had a kid playingthis position and now we've got
a kid coming in that's a littlebit better.
So we replaced the senior with akid that's offensively.
And so it's really more sotrying to take the team as a
whole and saying this is what wegotta do as a team.
Here's what we got coming back.
Here's what we've lost, and thenthis kid should be a little
better.
This kid should be a littlebetter.
This kid should be a littlebetter.
And then we fill the gaps inwith everybody else versus.
(14:23):
I'm gonna replace one kid withone kid.
When Hannah Hall graduated, howare you gonna replace Hannah
Hall?
I'm like, hell no.
Probably not gonna replace her.
And so maybe we got deeper inthe circle.
So instead of having one bigtime arm, we had two or three
arms and we worked through thatand navigated and we just
started playing better defense.
That's right.
So it's just trying to nit,nitpick that a little bit.
I'm not gonna not recruit a kidthat I really because I'm
(14:45):
worried about replacingsomething else.
I hate to use baseball as a, asan example here, but, and I, and
this is hard for me to see outloud.
'cause as you can see, I'm aCubs fan.
What we're seeing the Milwaukeebrewers do with their lineup and
the pitchers that they've lostand the hitters that they've
lost, it seems like every kid inthat lineup knows how to see the
(15:10):
ball and drive the ball whereit's pitched.
And they can all run.
They can all run.
I'm a Mets fan, so it's been areally hard life for me.
But but yeah, I, one of thethings and I didn't dig into the
context of it, but they saideverybody in their lineup was
under five 10.
Yeah.
Or under six foot, I should say.
Yeah.
And that's an anomaly in MajorLeague baseball.
But they do all of the littlethings and they do them very
well.
Yeah.
(15:30):
So I love that's your approachto recruiting.
Is there something that gets youexcited about outfield when
you're watching outfielders?
Is there something that you'rejust like, God I love that type
of game.
Outfield, outfields my jam.
That's my jam.
That's where I live.
And I talk about it all thetime.
I need to go get'em outfielder.
That's the kid.
And that's usually in centerfield that's just happening to
run everything all the way everyeverything down, and tracking
(15:52):
balls and taking away balls inthe gap and doing those things.
And I think it's undervalued,right?
And those things and very seldomdo you see a GoGet'em outfielder
'cause nobody really zones inand focuses specifically on
outfield.
And yeah, I think you can findsome corner kids that can do
things and swing the bat and besufficient out there.
But a really go get'em centerfielder that covers a ton of
ground is just really.
(16:13):
It's elite, but it's also theydon't, you don't, they don't
make'em like that anymore.
No.
As a Mets fan, I'll personallythank you for Pete Crow
Armstrong.
We really appreciate it.
Yeah, that was that was a toughpill to swallow.
I appreciate it.
How I'm gonna love watching himplay for the next 15 years out
there, Ridley.
All right.
Let's go to the infield thirdbase.
I know everybody talks aboutshort stops, but for me, for
(16:35):
softball.
Third base has to be a rockstar.
What are you looking for whenyou're recruiting third base
grit.
Somebody's not afraid to get intheir cookies, right?
You like to see somebody thatcan get up in front of the bla
in front of the bag and reallytake away the short game and do
those types of things but alsois athletic enough to move,
behind the bag.
And we like to play behind thebag quite often and then come in
front to take away the shortgame.
(16:56):
And so if we're able to takesomebody that's agile enough as
a shortstop and move them overto third base.
But they're a little bit, alittle bit arrogant in what
they're doing and coming andtaking things away.
That's just powerful for us.
Fearless component too.
Oh, no doubt.
Because that's a position Iwouldn't wanna play.
Yeah, me too.
Yeah.
I was a catcher all the waythrough school and, but I, when
(17:18):
I got a chance to play third, itwas just, it's a whole different
world in terms of yourconfidence and your grit.
No doubt.
Let's talk about up the middle.
What are you looking for up themiddle?
Honestly, and nobody's probablygonna say this out loud, I look
at their glove, not their glovework.
If a kid goes out there and thegloves' formed a little bit
different and it's got a littleswag to it and it's got that
kind of baseball atmosphere thatdraw, I'm zoning in that draws
(17:40):
my attention and I'm gonna watchthat kid a little bit longer.
Maybe I'm the only one.
But it's just one of those weirdthings that you gravitate to and
you're like, Hey man, usuallybad players don't have great
gloves.
And I said usually not all thetime, but usually.
And so that, I'll see that andjust kinda how they move and you
see a kid that works reallyhard, just to, getting the pre,
in between inning ground ballsand how hard it is.
(18:03):
And then you see those freeflowing kids that it's just a
game and it's quick and easy andit's almost like they're showing
all Yeah.
And you just watch that.
And that's the thing that makesme wanna watch a little bit
more.
Yeah.
It's the Captain America.
Keep bringing it.
I can do this all day.
Yeah.
The glove looks like it'sreceived more ground balls than
what a glove should havereceived.
(18:23):
Yep.
Yeah.
I love it.
All right.
Talk about your first baseman.
What do we, we get at everylevel.
Doesn't matter if softball,baseball, doesn't matter if it's
club all the way through pro.
Seems like that's a powerposition.
Is that a power position?
Is the bat important for youover there?
It certainly is, but I thinkit's super underrated
defensively, especially in agame that's so fast.
And a game that's so fast, Ithink we can get away with some
(18:44):
things in baseball a little bitmore.
But in softball, those picks andbackhand picks and those types
of plays and covering the buntsare just, they're so quick and
so it's just a little bit moreimportant with the small game,
the way that goes to be moreefficient defensively over there
at first base.
But again, it's glove work forme, right?
If they've got a, I've got adead bunny ear over there that's
swapping around in the wind.
But I wanna see somebody that'spopping off the bag, that's
(19:06):
receiving, snapping through it,throwing the ball around and
really has some energy overthere.
Is just really important, whatwe're looking at.
We've talked about it already inthe past podcast, but you've had
some stud pitchers you talkedabout Hannah, again what do you
have to see are there red flagsto the picture that maybe you'll
walk away from?
Or are there certain things thatyou're like, God.
(19:28):
That's a kid that can throw,that's a kid that's gonna
develop into something specialbecause it's seems like it's so
hard to identify some of thosethings.
Yeah.
And I think that's why film's sohard because you don't really
kinda get a grasp of it on film,but.
I want a kid that commands thecircle.
A kid that commands the circlewith confidence.
And one of the things we talkabout, Hannah Hurl, who's with
us now, not Hannah Hall, who waswith Hannah Hurl, that's with us
(19:51):
now that makes her great.
Is sometimes you go watch herand you're like, is this is, and
people I've heard people say, isthis kid that special?
I don't understand.
Everywhere Hannah Hurl isplayed, Hannah Hurl has won.
Something about it.
And I think about a young ladynamed Carla Hall that played for
me.
People were like, oh, shedoesn't do a whole lot.
I'm like, I don't know whatyou're talking about, but she
wins.
(20:12):
When she gets the ball, shewins, her teams win.
She's in championships.
And so following kids that justseem to always win and always be
in that moment is good.
And for us it's swings andmisses and weak contact.
Watched a kid the other day,that from a velocity standpoint
wasn't where I like to seevelocity, but every time I see
her pitch, she gets a ton ofswings and misses and a lot of
(20:36):
weak contact.
And there's something to be saidabout that.
That ball's doing something toconfuse hitters or she's hiding
it or spinning it.
Is important.
And yeah, we wanna light theradar gun up, but there's a
couple kids this summer thatwere 61, 62, which is really
exciting for us.
But every time I saw them play,it was really hard contact.
Yeah.
Hard contact every time we play,which tells me the ball's not
(20:57):
moving as much.
And those are the things that weI identify a little bit with
pitching and it's worked out forus to be successful.
Hannah Hall I saw, speaking ofHannah Hall, who's gonna get in
our Hall of Fame here inOctober.
She I remember watching her as asophomore.
A friend of mine sent me out tosee her and she was 54, 55.
She was okay.
But what I saw was very highlegs very very high legs and
(21:20):
very long levers.
And I was like, this kid's got ashot and she was left handed, so
that didn't hurt.
So let's just follow up with heror follow it up with her as a
junior.
All of a sudden it was 58, 59with a little bit of life, and
it was weird.
It was a weird 58, 59.
There was a lot of swings andmisses, a lot of weak contact.
Nobody was really payingattention to her.
And then that was like, Hey, weneed to go get this kid and we
(21:42):
need to go get this kid now.
Yeah, and that was on aSaturday.
She visited her on a Tuesday andcommitted and.
The next six months we were justpraying that nobody else would
steal it from us.
And then we did that for thenext four years.
We were praying that nobodystole it from us.
I don't miss, that's one of thethings I don't miss, waiting,
the, waiting for that greatplayer to tell you they, oh, I
just gotta make sure they'rehere and in class on the first
(22:03):
day.
Yeah.
Exactly.
That's the difference with beinga D three coach.
You're it's not the commitmenton February 15th, it's the first
day of school on August,whatever it is, 26th.
Are they in class?
You know what I mean?
Gimme a piece of advice for akid that would love to play at
Virginia Wesleyan.
How do they get ahold of you?
How do they reach out to you ina way that you want that says,
(22:26):
Hey coach, I'm interested inyou.
Would you evaluate me?
Certainly, everybody's gonna goto email, right?
Certainly email.
But we'll see.
Just since you and I have beentalking here, I've got 138
emails not that just came inthere, but since you and I have
been talking on this smaller 15minute segment I've gotten 27
new emails in there and some of'em, and it's not even
tournament time, right?
And so some of that gets lost inthe shuffle.
We see everything that comesthrough and we filter all that.
(22:48):
But what's unique about is thekid that continues to send
stuff, and so sending emails andcommunicating without.
Being okay without getting aresponse.
And I say that for my divisionone colleagues and some of my
division two colleagues becausethere's certain times that they
can't respond.
That's right.
That's right.
And so us not responding isn'tnecessarily normally not seeing
or not reading it.
(23:09):
If I continue to see BrandonElliot.
Brandon Elliot.
Brandon Elliot.
Brandon Elliot, and I'm deletingthese Brandon Elliot emails, but
they keep coming in.
They keep coming in and we'retrying to file'em.
Eventually they're like, we'vegot to go see this kid.
This kid's continuing to followup on us, continuing to send and
those are the genuine emailsand.
When we won the NationalChampionship in 2017, somebody
said, you need to make sure whenthey're on visits, you tell'em
(23:31):
that.
Like they know.
Everybody knows.
They don't because it'd beinteresting.
I get emails like,congratulations on a season that
you guys had.
So it was a generic even,instead of, Hey, congrats you
guys won a nationalchampionship.
I'm super interested in that.
Or, for us this year, man, whatan incredible run.
You guys, finished this runnersup.
That's a program and what, sodoing some research in that
email because.
(23:51):
You're gonna have your emailthat you're sending out to the
masses just like we do.
But then you're gonna have thatemail that I'm sending just to
Virginia Westley or just to,Brandon Elliot.
And so somehow, if that schoolis important to you, making that
email personable so we know thatthis is coming just to us, not
to somebody else.
(24:11):
I beat parents up a lot morethan they deserve because I'm a
tough love when it comes toparents, especially on the
recruiting side.
'cause there's so much cl headin the cloud kind of talk about
recruiting.
What's your best piece of adviceto parents that have a daughter
that's going through thisjourney?
Think to be transparent withthem at the beginning of the
journey of what you can do.
(24:33):
Whether that is financially,whether that is distance wise,
whether like, where are yourthoughts on that?
Because sometimes thoseconversations happen after a
kid's fall in love with a place.
And again, we talked earlier,there's some non-negotiables.
There's some kids that arepaying their own way.
There's some parents that have aset dollar amount and this is
what I can afford to help mykid.
(24:54):
And being able to have that,that if it's not a concern, then
Hey, you go where you want.
But if there is a thing like,Hey, I, I've got$18,000 a year,
mom and I have saved and that'sthe best that we could do.
And we're help, we're happy totake out loans and, but you're
gonna have to help from$18,000plus, or whatever.
So then that kid knows, alright,where am I at in the ballpark?
(25:16):
And being able to walk throughthat.
Just that transparency of whatthe expectations are from a
parent.
And, and it's hard because I,I'm figuring it out with my own
kids and it's hard'cause I'm notin that decision as the parent.
But giving them your opinionwhen they ask for your opinion,
because you're gonna go on thesevisits with them and you're
(25:37):
gonna have your opinions, butsometimes your opinion doesn't
match up with theirs.
And I think when it comes downto that important of a decision,
that there should be arelational piece where it's
alright dad, I'm strugglingbetween school A, B, and C.
I would like to hear what yourthoughts are.
Can you help me walk through it?
Versus feeding them thatimmediately.
(25:59):
Because this has to be a selfishdecision for them.
This is the first decision intheir life that's all about
them.
As parents, we've gotta besupportive in any way that we
can to support them in thatdecision.
And if it's a complete red flagfor you as a parent, you're
gonna know that and your knower.
And I'm not saying to keep thataway'cause you don't want your
(26:20):
kid going if you saw somethingcrazy you don't want.
But just trying to kind whiteglove it a little bit.
Let them walk through theprocess.
And I think the last thing isfor parents not to get up in
arms about a deadline.
And what I mean by deadline, I'mnot talking about schools that
deadline you.
I think if scholarship dollarsare involved or if roster spots
(26:42):
are at stake, each program candeadline and give deadlines
because I understand theimportance of that.
But sometimes we have thesearbitrary deadlines like
September 1st, my 2020 sevens,gotta figure it out.
That's the beginning.
That's when division ones canreach out.
And just because social mediashows that these 15 kids
committed on September 1stdoesn't mean that's the same
timeline for your child.
(27:04):
That's right.
Is they're dead.
I honestly believe kids aregonna know when they know.
That's right.
And I, one of my best friends,his daughter called me last year
on, on her way back from avisit, and it was between two
schools.
And she said, my dad told me Ineeded to call you and you help
me through making this decision.
And I said, all right you tellme about the schools.
(27:24):
She talked all about school A,she talked all about school B.
She talked glowingly about bothof them and their programs and
their coaches, but I could tellin her voice that she was
leaning one way.
Yeah.
And all I told her was I justsaid, Hey listen, you have
already made up your mind.
You're just wanting somebodyelse to tell you what to do.
I said, but you already know.
She's which 1:00 AM I leaningto?
(27:44):
I said, I'm not gonna say it.
I said, could, because I said,where you're struggling is you
are so in love with bothprograms and both coaches.
You just don't wanna disappointone or the other.
Yeah.
And I said, this is a big girlconversation and you just need
to go ahead and call that coachand tell them that you're
looking to go to the otherschool.
(28:04):
And I said, because you'vealready made up your mind.
She called me the next day andshe said, I'm going to so and
and I said, that's where Ifigured you were going.
She's like, how'd you know?
I said, I heard it in yourvoice.
I said, you loved both of them.
Yeah.
You just wanted somebody else togive you the answer'cause you're
afraid to make the wrongdecision.
So that I think that's key intothat is those open conversations
forward.
Yeah, I love it, coach.
(28:27):
It's a true joy to get to knowyou and meet you and to have
this conversation with you.
Virginia Westland's really luckyto have you, and I'm sure they
know that.
But I'm so happy that we have anaudience across the country now
that now knows there's anothergreat school out there that they
can look at.
And if they have a daughterthat's playing softball, this
would be a great opportunity forthem to take a look and learn
(28:47):
more about it.
So thank you for doing this andwe'll be cheering for you.
I appreciate it.
And reach out Virginia Wesleyanand Virginia Beach is a great
place to be.
There's no question.
Thanks, coach.
Thanks you, sir.
That was my conversation withCoach Brandon Elliot, and what a
powerful reminder about whatreally matters in recruiting.
Coaches aren't just evaluatingtalent, they're asking which kid
(29:11):
wants to be here more?
Effort, intentionality andgenuine interest can matter
almost as much as skill.
If you're recruit, that's achallenge to you.
Show them every step of the waythat you are fully invested, and
if you're looking for tools tohelp you stay focused and
organized on your recruitingjourney.
Remember, the Sports RecruitJournal series is out now for
(29:35):
basketball, baseball,volleyball, and softball.
Soccer is coming soon, Ipromise.
They're designed as week by weekguides for any student athlete
who wants to own their processand stand out.
They're also a perfect companionto my book, significant
Recruiting, the Playbook forprospective college athletes.
You can find them alltoday@amazon.com
(29:58):
and@coachmattrogers.com.
Until next time, stay focused,stay humble, and keep working to
be the recruit who truly wantsto be there.
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