September 5, 2025 • 54 mins
🎙 From Practice to Peak: Mental Training Lessons with Dawn Grant
In this episode of the Significant Coaching Podcast, Matt Rogers sits down with Dawn Grant, renowned mental trainer for professional athletes, whose clients include Olympic champions, PGA Tour winners, and elite performers across multiple sports.
Dawn breaks down the myths around mental training and hypnosis, showing how simple and practical it can be for athletes, coaches, and parents. One of her most powerful messages: raise athletes to be practicers, not just gamers—because the way you train mentally every day determines how you’ll perform under pressure.
This episode is a master class in mental performance and emotional resilience that you won’t want to miss.
👉 Learn more about Dawn and her work: DawnGrant.com
👉 Follow her on social media:
- Instagram: @DawnGrantMentalTraining
- Facebook: @DawnGrantMentalTraining
- Twitter/X: @DawnGrantMind
- LinkedIn: Dawn Grant
And don’t forget—you can grab the new Baseball, Volleyball, Basketball, and Softball Recruit’s Journals and sign up for the Significant Recruiting Launchpad classes at CoachMattRogers.com
Learn more and connect with Matt Rogers here: https://linktr.ee/coachmattrogers
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
So athletes that have thatcompetitive nature, which not
all humans have, they'remotivated by sports and winning.
So I might focus on teachingthem that anger and those
outbursts and that frustrationis gonna take you out of the
zone and out of the moment andyour peak performance.
But you can't just decide at acompetition or a tournament on
(00:21):
Saturday to not do that anymore.
You have to learn and practiceother alternatives and managing
your emotions and all that on adaily basis.
Welcome back to The SignificantCoaching Podcast.
(00:41):
I'm your host, Matt Rogers.
You just heard Don Grant,renowned mental trainer for
professional athletes.
And she reminded us that youcan't just show up on game day
and expect to flip a switch.
If you want to compete at yourpeak, you have to practice not
only your skills, but also howyou'll manage your emotions,
your focus and your mindset.
(01:02):
Dawn has worked with Olympicathletes, PGA champions.
Elite performers across allsports.
But what makes her remarkable ishow she breaks down the myths
around things like hypnosis andmental training, and shows us
how practical, simple, andpowerful they can be.
One of the biggest takeawaysfrom our conversation was Don's
(01:23):
advice to raise athletes to bepracticers instead of gamers.
We've all used that phrase,haven't we?
That means building daily habitsmentally and physically that
prepare you for those pressuremoments.
It's a shift that changeseverything for athletes,
coaches, and parents alike.
What you're about to hear is amasterclass in mental
(01:45):
performance before we dive in.
A quick reminder, the newbaseball, volleyball, basketball
and softball recruits journalsare now available along with the
significant recruiting launchpadclasses, and you can find them
all@coachmattrogers.com.
Alright, let's get to myconversation with Don Grand.
(02:06):
We're gonna have a lot oflearning today.
I'm excited to share you withour audience.
We have a lot of parents withstudent athletes and a lot of
high school, college coaches,athletic directors that listen.
Before we click record, youtalked about that there's some
naysayers when it comes to themental side of sports and a lot
of people just don't understandwhat mentor performance is all
about.
(02:26):
Fill us in a little bit.
Yeah.
And it goes far and broad.
I personally even feel that thecollege hasn't caught up.
So like a sports psychologist inthe curriculum for sports
psychology.
Is not even close to what I'mdoing.
What I'm doing and what I thentherefore believe is the true
(02:46):
mental game is related to notonly like confidence, but the
quality of the thoughts worry,doubt, fear, second guessing,
trying too hard.
A wandering mind thinking aboutsomething else altogether.
A pre, a previous whole, aprevious station the score
dinner, an argument you had withsomebody earlier.
(03:06):
There's so many things thatcould be going on mentally that
take somebody out of the moment.
And we could also say, takesthem out of what would be the
peak performance state alreadyidentified as the zone or the
flow.
So we can break that down inthis.
This interview also is if welook at what the flow is or the
zones.
Day we already have apredetermined kind of recipe and
(03:30):
most people, most athletes aredoing the opposite of all of
these elements.
So in order to, have I considera really great mental game,
you've gotta have calm presenceand focus and be properly using
your conscious mind and have agood, pure, subconscious that's
got great mechanics in itthrough repetition, but also
(03:50):
great belief systems.
'cause those are thoughts.
Through repetition that becomehabitual.
And that's what we have a beliefthen.
My experience, a lot of eitherpeople just don't believe in the
mental game, which I find sofascinating'cause I'm like
enthralled in it, right?
So when I meet people that.
Don't believe in it or don'treally give it credit.
(04:11):
I'm a bit surprised because ifwe just say as simply as, will
worry cause you not to playwell?
Or will anger cause you not toplay well?
Or if you're still focused on aprevious hole or station or
stand, like most people wouldsay, yeah, yeah, that does cause
a problem.
And that is the mental game.
(04:32):
Overthinking the score being inthe final.
Being in the lead and trying tomaintain that lead or doing a
shoot off and trying to staycalm under that pressure.
That's all mental game stuff.
It's so interesting you talkabout that because I know you've
worked with a number of PGAprofessionals.
We saw Tommy Fleetwood yesterdayand has not won a PGA
(04:57):
championship yet.
He's one of my favorite golfers.
I root for him every time heplays.
And yesterday he gets the 16th,15th hole.
He is up by two strokes.
He falls apart.
Brutal.
And you could just tellafterwards that he didn't have
an answer for it.
And I've been there, I was thattype of athlete that I was
(05:17):
really good.
And then when the pressure cameon I lost it a little bit.
I couldn't get my focus back.
Yeah.
What do we say to thoseathletes?
After a round like that, orafter a game like that where
they had the lead, they hadeverything in control, and
something in between their ears,they lost their focus.
What, where do we begin withthat situation?
(05:39):
Again, I feel like it'seducation, right?
Because even at the PJ Tour Prolevel, they may not totally
understand the mental game, andit doesn't really matter how
elite an athlete is.
It does not mean that theytotally have a grasp on it.
I've seen that over and overagain.
Some of them have plowedthrough, some of them have been
doing their sport for so longthat they maybe have acquired a
(06:03):
mental game without realizingit.
But to be able to implement somemental skills in moments like
that if they don't understand itenough to acknowledge my mental
game's important right now, oris wavering and how to fix it
and what to do about it.
And then make the correction,then they'll just fall apart in
(06:24):
a situation like that.
And I think golf is a perfectexample.
We see it all the time on Sundayin the last holes.
And I, for me, that, which, thatmakes golf interesting and fun
to watch because I find thatfascinating and funny that
somebody at that level.
Can still not have a strongmental game.
(06:44):
And one of the other things istheir go-to their go-to is
mechanics, their go-to is, maybechanging the putter or I don't
know.
It's usually something physical.
Oh, my elbows sore.
Yeah, they, they are thesego-tos.
Without recognizing, again,understanding or acknowledging
that there's a mental aspect andthat's invisible unless you
(07:06):
understand it and then you canstart paying attention to it.
And that's probably why he waslike confused, right?
Yeah.
Where do you start?
Let's put you in that situation.
He's walking off the course he'ssigned his card and he's got 10
minutes with you before he isgotta go do something else.
Where do you begin?
When somebody wants something sobadly loses it that they have it
(07:27):
in their hands.
What's that conversation looklike?
Again, that would be raising theawareness, right?
So in that moment, if I had anopportunity to talk to him and
he was willing to listen, itprobably wouldn't be the five
minutes after.
It'd be the next day orsomething.
Sure.
And he would probably.
I would ask him, what was goingthrough your mind at that time?
What kind of thoughts were youhaving?
(07:49):
And I'll, for some people thethoughts are either they're also
elusive.
They're so used to thinking acertain way.
It's so familiar.
It's like wearing the sameperfume or cologne every day.
If you constantly doubt yourselfor worry or regret, or, have
belief systems that like, I'llnever win on the tour, or I can
never hold it together for anentire round whatever the phrase
(08:11):
is.
Sometimes it's so familiar thatpeople don't even realize.
So it can take a bit of mepulling, a lot of times people
will say, I don't have negativethoughts, but then once I start
questioning and talking to them,they're there.
They just don't realize it.
Another thing that they'll denyis fear.
One of the PGA guys I wasworking with, he was in the lead
(08:34):
moving into the final hole onSunday.
And he started having thethoughts of, if I win this, both
of my college, both of my kids'college would be paid for and I
could get the sports car hewanted, Austin Martin, I'd get
the sports car I always wanted.
And you start thinking that way.
And then what, right?
You can either become toocautious, too careful, you can
(08:56):
try too hard.
Those things will get in the wayof mechanics.
All the time.
So you know, it's, it isdefinitely a lot more than a 10
minute conversation or an hourafterwards.
It has, you have to be a willingparticipant to listen and then
start really digging in thereand start having an awareness.
And in this example.
That player may or may not havethat awareness right now, but it
(09:18):
would be a matter of time ofworking together to start paying
attention to the negativethoughts or belief systems that
are there, and then let's starttackling them and figuring out
how to use your conscious mindbetter and subconsciously change
some belief systems.
But you're saying it's not justthe negative thoughts.
Sometimes it's the overlypositive thoughts, I get to pay
(09:39):
for my kids' education.
I get this car, we, I don't haveto worry about this debt.
Sometimes that can weigh on usthe positive you just as much as
the negative.
Yeah.
Especially pj, you're talkingabout a million dollars and how
much that can change your lifeand it's down to the final hole
in the final shot.
Yeah it's a big thing.
Talk, as far as pressure.
(10:00):
That same pro, just, at anothertime we were working together,
he had said to me that he neverlooked at the score, right?
He didn't wanna know score.
He knew on the golf courseswhere the scoreboards were, and
he would deliberately not lookat them.
And then when the, the littleladies are walking around with
the scores, he'd deliberatelynot look.
(10:20):
And he said that he had thatpretty much under control,
except when the cameras wouldcome.
And the large group groups ofpeople would come because that
was the clue.
He was in the top five probably.
And as soon as the cameras hadcome, he had fall apart.
We did work around that, butmental training and some
hypnosis and the hypnosis helpedhim change the belief around the
(10:41):
cameras, meaning that's great.
I, I gave him suggestions of.
The cameras are here.
I get to show the world my greatmechanics and how far I've come
and I love that there, thatthose cameras are here.
Like I totally shifted theperspective for'em.
I love that.
Yeah.
I was a college basketball coachfor a long time, and for me, it,
(11:03):
and you tell me if I was offbase here, but I, for me, as a
shooter.
I don't want my shootersthinking about the scoreboard
either.
I don't want them thinking evenabout the moment.
I want them going back to theirtraining.
I gotta jump stop.
I, if I have a solid base, manI'm gonna make it.
And that's where I gotta get, Igotta get to that solid base.
(11:24):
I know when I'm solid and myfeet are locked, I'm gonna make
it.
Is, are those the type of thingsyou're taking an athlete
through?
What you're referring to again,is the mechanics, right?
Yeah.
A go-to.
Yeah.
But it is a familiar go-to.
But the way that's working withthe mind that's beautiful is the
conscious mind can only focus onone thing at a time.
(11:46):
It's got, it's called, backthousands of years in Eastern
philosophy, it was called onePointed Attention.
The, this knowing has beenaround for a long time.
So if you tell your consciousmind.
Focus on the process and you canmanage it and be a supervisor of
that through that meaning stayon the process.
(12:08):
Of course it's gonna wannawander.
It reminds me of a little puppythat hasn't had training yet.
It doesn't know how to sit andheal and you're teaching it, but
it like wanders off and you go,come back.
Come back.
That's how your conscious mindis at the beginning of, any kind
of mental training.
Like you, it's wandering all thetime, right?
So you can tell it to focus onthe process and be there,
(12:28):
there's lots of practice andability to do that'cause there's
an understanding, but actuallygetting it to do it.
Is the next phase, right?
The next step in learning andgetting better.
I kept thinking, I'm gonna goback to this golf tournament
yesterday at the last three orfour holes I kept, I don't know
why my brain thinks this way,but I kept going, all right, I
find this guy's caddy.
(12:50):
What am I saying to him?
So this may be a business foryou.
You might wanna start focusingon caddies or the relationship
that the caddy and the golfer,because Yeah, I just kept going.
What would I say to this guy tocalm his nerves?
He just hit a bad shot.
He's the, one of the bestgolfers, one of the best strike
golf strikers in the game ballstrikers in the game.
(13:10):
How do I get him back toremember that?
So it's, yeah I don't know whymy head went to that caddy, but
I guess it's being a coach, aslong as I had it, I was my
player's person.
I was the guy they counted on toget them back mentally on track.
And I don't know if I ever did agood job of it for sure.
No, I totally understand.
Back in 2008, I worked withVijay Singh and one full day I
(13:33):
worked with his caddy becausethat is the person in his ear.
And another thing that's poppinginto my mind is related to child
athletes and parents.
The parents are the caddy,right?
So a parent needs to understandhow to, be more than just the
mechanics, like understandingthe mind.
I have like online courses forathletes and one of the things I
(13:56):
say is that.
If a parent's going to enroll orregister their child for one of
these online courses, like youdo it too because you need to
speak the same language.
If the athlete is learningFrench and you don't know
French, there is nocommunication there.
Like you need to learn thelanguage and what your child's
working on so that you can betheir caddy in any sport, not
(14:19):
just golf, right?
You can be their caddy or sayingthe right thing.
You're not just saying.
It's okay buddy.
Move on.
Just forget about it.
That doesn't, that's notproductive.
It's not constructive.
And that's what a lot of peoplewill do.
Or they'll get upset with, oh,you can do better than that.
This is unbelievable.
Which is de degrading, right?
There's so many differentthings.
But looking at things in ahealthy, constructive,
(14:42):
productive way and learning fromexperiences.
Every miss is a bright flashing,neon sign.
Of what you need to work on toget where you wanna go.
But what happens instead ispeople get mad, they get upset,
they get sad, they get angry,they get resentful.
They wanna quit.
(15:03):
They just wanna forget about it.
They just wanna move on, pretendit didn't happen.
And there's some mental trainersout there that will even tell
them to visualize that they didit.
Period.
Yeah, there is some of that Iteach, but there's, it's much
broader than that.
If it's just pretend you hit itor made it period and then move
on, that's just delusional,right?
(15:24):
That's fake.
And your belief system won'teven accept it, and it's not
gonna do anything.
You have to pull out theinformation like, why did I miss
and not be mad about it if Icontinually doubt myself.
And am thinking about maybeanother teammate and how they
(15:45):
maybe.
And like clay shooting, you'rein squads teams basically, and
you take turns to go up andshoot.
So if there's a, maybe a higherlevel, higher class shooter and
that person is shooting a pairin a certain order and your plan
was to shoot it in the oppositeorder and you start doubting
yourself because that guy'shigher class level and he's a
(16:07):
better shooter, so I'm gonna dowhat he says.
And then you don't feelcomfortable, but you say pull
anyways, and you try to shootlike that whole scenario.
So it's really being able to be,confident with yourself and
believing in yourself and notjust trying to morph into what
somebody else is doing.
There's so many different thingslike that, and every personality
is different, so it can play outin different ways.
(16:28):
Like anger may be more of anissue for some people.
Yeah.
Yeah, it definitely was for meas a coach, as, and I worked
with a sports psychologist acouple years back, and I told
her, I said, I, there's too manytimes I'm walking outta practice
or a game and I'm beating myselfup because I'm like, why did I
say that?
Why did I handle it, thatsituation the way I did?
(16:48):
And one of the things we workedon is.
Take, having that situation inmy head and going, okay, how
would I handle it differently ifthat happens again?
So I'm curious about that.
'cause for me, I, I, there's somany families that have.
Kids that play volleyball andbasketball and soccer and
softball that listen to this.
So I don't wanna stay on golffor too long, but me as a
(17:12):
golfer, I had a pro fif 20 yearsago, tell me, here's what I want
you to tell yourself.
Every time you swing the club,use your arms to swing the club
to the target.
And it's amazing what thatphrase did for me.
And I try to do the same thingfor my daughter who's a
volleyball player, before sheserves.
I'll go remember your breath andfind your pace.
(17:32):
Yeah.
And it's amazing what that doesfor her, just to remember those
two things.
Is it that simple sometimes foran athlete?
And that's similar example towhat you said before, and it
goes back to that one point ofattention.
Yeah.
And a singular focus.
And the process is a good thingto focus on because it's in that
moment.
And the thing is there is moregoing on.
(17:54):
That's a mental cue, but.
Once you start throwing in otherthings my teammate is being
nasty to me.
The other side, the other teamis cheating.
I'm winning or I'm on a streak.
Once you start throwing thosethings in, then it makes it
tricky to focus on.
Something like a process.
(18:16):
So that's where it getscomplicated.
It sounds like a simple solutionand it is a good solution, but
you have to train your mind tobe able to stay on it and to not
go down these rabbit holes whenthese other things happen.
That's really the trick.
And so it sounds, it's keep itsimple, stupid, the kiss thing.
But it's harder than it seemsbecause the conscious mind is.
(18:39):
This puppy, right?
Or a lot of times I think of itlike a dog that's been living in
the wild and all of a sudden youwanna domesticate it.
So you know, depending on yourage, how long has your conscious
mind been living in the wild?
Yeah, a long time and tell me ifyou're seeing this too, but with
YouTube and Instagram now,there's so much coaching going
(19:01):
on.
You can get, you can go down afunnel of whether you, whatever
athlete, type of athlete youare, coach, there's 25 people
telling you how to.
Yeah.
And my worry is always there'stoo many chefs in the kitchen.
There's too many voices in theirhead.
Yeah.
How do we, and you gotta findthat person.
You gotta find that person, thatvoice that fits you.
(19:22):
Not, like you said, not yourteammate, not the person that's
maybe performing better thanyou.
You gotta find the one for you.
How do we do that?
Yeah.
How do we fight through the messto get to that voice?
Yeah, so you know, I have a fewexamples coming to my mind or
analogies.
I can remember 20 years ago or15 years ago listening to golf
(19:42):
commentators talk about you aparticular pro swing.
And there was almost thisunderlying belief that the swing
ha it must be a certain way.
And that one's weird and thatone's wrong and they shouldn't
be doing that.
And then as a little bit oftime, a little bit, it's time
went on, there seemed to be moreof an acceptance of the
different swings and I don'treally hear that, pointing the
(20:04):
finger like there's somethingwrong with that swing.
And then I've come over,'cause Iown a shotgun club and so I'm,
and I have a lot of clay,target, clay sporting clay's
competitors as clients.
They, the way that I see thatover there is they will
instructor hop, they'll goaround the country and they'll
hire different instructors.
And some instructors are worldchampions, so they're like, oh,
(20:27):
that one's a world champion, soI'm gonna go to that one.
And that one's, in the Hall ofFame, I'm gonna go to that one.
But there's all these littlenuances in their techniques and
some techniques are completelydifferent than others.
And of course that.
Person, that instructor, thatworld champion, they think
theirs is the right way, andwhat happens is this confusion.
And I do feel like every body isdifferent.
(20:47):
And again, this goes back 15, 20years when I was watching the
golfers be ridiculed for nothaving that perfect stroke or
something.
Everybody's body is different.
Everybody's flow is different asfar as some people are hyper and
some people are chilled out andyou gotta really figure out what
works for you.
And I think it does help tomaybe dabble just to figure out.
(21:10):
I like that, or I don't likethat.
This works for me.
This doesn't work for me.
But be really cautious to not goto a coach.
That 100% says it's my way orthe highway.
This is the only way.
Even if it's not working for youor doesn't feel comfortable,
like you've gotta move on andyou've got to find somebody that
you're compatible with.
It's no different than any otherrelationship.
(21:31):
Have somebody that respects andhonors where you're at, has some
expertise that they cancontribute to it.
But.
Not think that, what they haveis for every human being.
I don't know how much you workwith kids.
I know you work with a ton ofadults and professionals that
are doing their thing at a veryhigh level.
Is there a difference in how wedevelop a 12-year-old athlete
(21:55):
and a 16-year-old athlete, a20-year-old athlete, and a
30-year-old athlete?
Is there a difference in, in howwe communicate these things?
Yes and no.
The no is there's no differencewith.
Worry is worry and doubt isdoubt.
And lack of confidence is lackof confidence.
And fear is fear and gettingoverly upset and not being able
(22:17):
to refocus.
That's the same no matter whatage.
What I do notice is the olderpeople get and the longer
they've been.
Performing, it reminds me of areally long file cabinet, right?
They have all these files inthere of what could happen and
what could go wrong, and the howmany times I've been to this
event and I've never won, sothey can have a lot more crud in
(22:38):
there.
But the positive.
Is they have a lot more wisdomand a lot more experience,
right?
So then you flip to the youngerand they think they have wisdom,
but they don't necessarily,right?
They don't have all thatexperience.
So there's still newbies atdifferent things.
Maybe a new tournament or firsttime they're competing at a
certain level or whatever it is.
(22:59):
And they don't have that bigfile cabinet.
The positive of not having thatbig PO file cabinet is they
don't have all those fears andexpectations going into
something.
Those preconceived ideas like,I'll never win here'cause I
never have in 10 years.
Something like that.
They go in and that little chipon their shoulder helps'em a
little bit.
(23:19):
So it, and the other thing I'veobserved is the younger they
are, it and this is the case forevery human you have to want.
Whatever it is that you're beingconnected with.
The same with a coach or,anyway, if I talk about mental
training though, it can't justbe the parent wants this kid,
like the parents watching thiskid have temper tantrums, which
(23:41):
we all have.
It's not just kids, if they'rekicking their clubs or they're
throwing their ball and they'rewhatever, upset and sad or angry
the whole rest of the night andtaking it out on the dog when
they get home.
Like this.
This happens at every age, butthere has to be.
The person themselves has towant to look at that and has to
(24:02):
want to work on it.
And so that to me is the onlystruggle with working with
somebody younger is they have towant it.
It can't be the parents thatwant it for them because again,
this is all invisible, right?
So the quality of somebody'sthoughts is happening in their
head.
They have to be the one toassess it.
(24:23):
Work on it, work on new skills,create new habits of how they
think about things, and youcan't just put that on somebody.
So those, that would be what Iwould say about that.
Yeah.
I love that.
We talk about, you hear it on TVwhen you're, whenever you're
watching a game, there's arookie up at the plate at a
baseball game, or a rookiequarterback, or rookie kicker,
(24:45):
whatever it may be, and theannouncer will say.
He may be just young enough notto know the situation he's in or
she's in.
My question for you is, let's goback to the file cabinet.
How do we teach 12 year olds, 13year olds, 14 year olds that are
really getting into thecompetitive side of their sport?
How do we teach them what tokeep in the file cabinet and
(25:07):
what to throw in the garbagecan?
Yeah.
Is that an even a.
An approach that we can take.
I'm begging as a parent of youngstudents, again, what I'm doing
is different than even what'staught in school.
So I can talk about for sportspsychology.
So for what I'm teaching, what Iteach is life skills.
They are how to use your mind toyour best ability for peak
(25:32):
performance at everything.
So if you're looking to.
Or you see you've got a feistykid that gets really angry and
gets really down on themselves.
That's not just in sport, that'sin life also.
That's a character thing.
And my feeling is you've got tofirst have the awareness and the
understanding and learn aboutthis and learn different ways,
(25:52):
but you've gotta practice it.
And a lot of times people aremotivated by sports.
So athletes that have thatcompetitive nature, which not
all humans have, they'remotivated by sports and winning.
So a, I might focus on youteaching them that anger and
those outbursts and thatfrustration is gonna take you
out of the zone and out of themoment and your peak
(26:13):
performance.
But you can't just decide at acompetition or a tournament on
Saturday to not do that anymore.
You have to learn and practiceother alternatives and managing
your emotions and all that on adaily basis.
So you had to learn how to dothat.
And then you've gotta get therepetition ahead of the
(26:34):
tournament.
No different than mechanics.
You don't change your mechanicsthe day before, the week before
an important to tournament.
You have to do it ahead of time.
And that is absolutely the samewith the mental game.
So you have to learn skills andwork on your mental game ahead
of time.
And the practice field is life.
And that's another reallyimportant thing that I teach.
(26:55):
I can show people and teachpeople what to do, but you've
gotta practice it daily in life.
And then when you show up onSaturday, it's second nature.
It's not some foreign thingyou're trying to figure out how
to implement.
But the win-win is you're gonnahave better performance in the
tournament.
You, you're also gonna be betterin life, like having understood
(27:17):
and managing something likeanger is gonna be good for
school and work andrelationships and everything
else.
I love that.
Give us a couple of things thatwe can do with our kids.
If we're parents or coaches andwe've got kids from that
10-year-old to 18-year-oldrange, what are some of those
things that we can practice withthem every day?
(27:39):
Whether we're dropping'em off atschool, we've got that five
minute car ride to school, orwe're picking'em a up after
school.
Are there things that we can doto work on those things and
focus on those things?
It's complicated.
Again, for a parent that doesn'tknow French, right?
But I can teach you some thingslike but again, most parents
don't even know how to do thisthemselves for real, right?
(28:00):
Yeah.
Like you got a lot of parentsthat still have their anger
outburst or resentful orregretful or worrisome or
doubtful, and.
It's a human issue.
Yeah.
So if the adult can first startrecognizing, wait, I do this
myself and I wanna learn how todo it differently myself.
And so I'm learning as I'mteaching.
And so what, what would I dodifferent here?
(28:21):
And the thing is let's say achild again, picked up from
school, they bombed a test thatday, right?
It would be more likereflecting.
So this would, in sports, it'swhat I call post segment
routine.
Post is after the sha, after thewhole, after the round, after
the event, after the station,whatever it is.
A time to reflect in aconstructive way.
(28:42):
Like what?
In starting with what did I do?
Especially, I don't know, let'ssay with test taking and a kid
is working on doing well andget, increasing their grades,
maybe improving their grades.
So maybe I did well, was Ireally did study a.
Hard this time.
Like I did take the time tostudy.
I went in, I slept good lastnight.
(29:03):
But that moment of, when Ididn't know the answer is when I
started getting anxious andfalling apart and then I froze.
So you got some positive andthen some negatives.
I don't even call'em negativesnormally, but there, there's the
information, right?
Yeah, of course.
There's the neon sign and soit's okay, so what can we do
about that, honey?
So you're telling me now thatunder pressure you start feeling
(29:26):
a lot of anxiety and then youfreeze.
So we need to work on that.
Let's.
Again, I'd probably be seekinghelp you could Google maybe like
how to breathe through anxiety,how to change your thoughts, how
to redirect the mind tosomething more constructive.
It's just easier said than done.
So it's a little tricky becausethere are things, yeah, like
(29:46):
breathing 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, andrelaxing the body all the way
down, like 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
But doing that right now,'causeI'm telling you, you two is one
thing, but doing it when youhave practiced it over time,
then it will have more effect.
Yeah maybe that's the greatthing is on the way to school,
on the way home you'repracticing those breathing
techniques.
A parent can take 20 seconds tosay, Hey.
(30:10):
Things go bad today.
You get in a situation whereyou're confused or you don't
have the answer or you don'tknow what to say.
Just take that breath, it'scount.
Count in five.
Count in out five.
I love that.
And I, to me I want to be moreof that parent.
I don't want, I don't want thedrive to school and the drive
home to be, a psychologist'soffice, I don't wanna be their
(30:32):
psychiatrist, but I do want tobe able to share tips and tools
with them and provide thatsupport.
And I think most of us parentsdo, yeah, I think most of us
parents, and you're a parenttoo.
We wanna just, we wanna give ourkids some tools that nobody gave
us.
Yeah, for sure.
And on my social media, Iactually do little 30 62nd reels
(30:54):
with tips constantly.
And that's all free too.
So that would be one way thatpeople could learn some tips.
But the, pausing in a moment,another kind of human issue, not
for just kids, but it'ssomething that adults can work
on and then teach their kids, isto not be reactionary, right?
If we react instead of respond.
(31:15):
There are underlying beliefs orpatterns and habits that there
are these knee jerk reactions.
So to be able to recognize,which ones are problematic,
which ones are causing theissues somebody says.
You're stupid, I hate you.
Does somebody, the only reasonthat would affect somebody is if
(31:35):
they believed it on some levelthemselves.
If they didn't believe it,they'd probably look over their
shoulder and be like, who you?
Who are you talking to?
Wait, what?
That's not me.
But if it hits that kid and thekid's crying after school or
wanting to tell you about thisor ready to fight that person,
that's because it's like an openwound in there and that person
(31:58):
pushed that button.
So then that's another spot ofawareness.
Honey, that's not true for you.
And the thing is if you'renoticing that those kind of
words can affect you that way,then let's look at it.
Do you really feel that you area dummy and nobody likes you, or
whatever the words were?
I noticed that, these kidsignore me at school, so then
(32:19):
they feel like they haveevidence of it.
So then it would be like, whatkids do you play with?
And what kids do seem to smilewhen you're coming over?
And so you start to shift andhave them focusing on the
positives'cause they are there.
They're there, even if it's theteacher really loves you.
Did you notice how she did blah,blah, blah, blah the other day?
And so it's repetition inthought that create beliefs.
(32:42):
So if there's already a beliefdown in there that's negative,
then it was repeated enough thatit got in there in, in one form
or fashion.
So the old fashioned way takes21 days to change a habit.
You have to, repeat somethingmore positive and then focus on
the, the proof.
(33:02):
People do like me.
And then that can replace thenegative belief or that's one of
the reasons I do hypnosisbecause we can go in there even
faster and just change thebelief systems in the
programming.
Let's dive into that.
I've been holding back, but Iwant, I wanna get into hypnosis
with you because I'm one ofthose people, I'm scared to
death to do it, i've seen somepeople that have walked away
(33:26):
with amazing results and somepeople have walked away with
nothing.
What does hypnosis mean to you?
And yeah.
Why do you promote it?
It's funny because it's one morething that I'm so enmeshed in
that I find it interesting thatthere's still people out there
that don't understand it, butthey've, there's misconceptions.
I would say that the movies,media has probably fed into the
(33:50):
misconceptions, right?
Because it's entertaining,right?
Yeah.
But that doesn't mean it'struth.
So the, here's the truth.
First of all, meditation seemsto be a little bit more wide,
widely accepted nowadays.
It wasn't always like that.
But if it was almost like a, ahair and a.
Rabbit, whatever, a rabbit and aturtle and a race or something,
(34:11):
right?
Like the me, the acceptance ofmeditation is a little bit ahead
of the acceptance of hypnosis,but the bottom line is that the
same state of mind, so they'reidentical in the state of mind,
but so is some other things thatyou're super familiar with.
So I like to think of a slope uphere is beta and then there's
(34:32):
alpha.
Theta and delta.
So if you think of like thismountain slope or whatever, beta
is, when is the name that wehave for measuring the
conscious?
'cause there's a subconsciousalso.
This is the conscious mind.
It's the conscious mindbrainwave activity.
That's the chatter.
So if you wanna think about itwith sports, that's when your
(34:53):
mind's do this, don't do that.
And oh my gosh, this ishorrible.
Blah, blah, blah, blah.
So those are all the chefs inthe kitchen?
Yes.
The little chatter.
Okay.
The analyzing.
You're, doing a test and you'rethinking about that you're not
smart, or you know somebody'stalking to you and you're not
really thinking about whatthey're saying.
'cause you're thinking aboutwhat you're gonna say back.
That's all this chatter, that'sbeta activity.
(35:14):
That's where we are.
Most of the time in our wakingstate.
So then again, conscious mind,not subconscious.
If you relax the conscious minda little bit, so that can be
through something like abreathing technique or focusing
on one thing instead of all thischatter, you can move it down
into alpha.
So that's a quieter, a slightlyquieter conscious mind.
(35:36):
And it's a range.
It's not like a light switch.
There's ranges.
The range below that is theta.
So in like normal terms, wewould say alpha.
In our life is like I was juststarting to relax.
Like you're sitting on thecouch, you're just starting to
chill out.
You're not thinking about amillion things.
You're starting to relax.
That's alpha theta is maybe youclose your eyes or not, but you
(36:01):
could be super daydreaming.
But if you're closing your eyes,you're almost asleep.
But you're not asleep.
And so if somebody walks in.
A kid walks in, a dog, walks in,a spouse walks in.
You can hear them, you can,because you're not asleep, but
you're super relaxed.
That's the data right below thatis delta, and that is what we
call sleep.
So you can think of thisprocess, this slope, beta,
(36:24):
alpha, theta, delta as theprocess of going to sleep.
You got wide awake and you havesleep.
Okay at the bottom.
So not only do you pass throughalpha and theta on your way to
go to sleep every single timeever in your whole life because
they're just measurements ofconscious mind activity.
When you wake up, you pass backup through them to get back to
(36:44):
beta.
Or you might hover, if you'rehalf awake, half asleep in bed,
flip flop, flopping, you'reprobably coming up to theta a
little bit.
And then going back to Delta tosleep.
If you go back to sleep if youwake up and you have a hard time
going back to sleep, you'reprobably all the way back up a
beta.
So this is all stuff you'refamiliar with.
Hypno.
Let's go with hyp meditationfirst.
(37:04):
Meditation.
Is alpha or theta, depending onhow relaxed you are.
You could be lightly inmeditation or you can be deeply
in meditation.
Hypnosis is an identical stateof mind, so light hypnosis is
alpha, and then deep hypnosis istheta.
And if I have a really tiredclient, like a roofer.
Who's been working on a roof in9,000 degree weather all day,
(37:27):
he's gonna go right into Delta,right?
It's hard.
It's hard for me to even keephim awake.
So a hypnotist gives relaxationtechniques like taking a good
deep breath, relax yourforehead.
There's all different.
Things I can even make'em up,tighten your little toe and then
release it, you're helping theconscious mind to focus on
something, and then also itrelaxes the body.
(37:48):
So in meditation you can be,you're hovering in this half
awake, half asleep hypnosis.
You're hovering.
Most meditation is like guided.
You might be going on a littlewalk on the beach or through the
woods, and there can bemetaphors that help you with
your confidence or whatever.
Or there can be mantras, likerepeating a word over and over
again.
Hypnosis just takes it toanother level.
(38:10):
So suggestions can be given toyou at that time.
You're not unconscious andyou're not asleep.
You ha you're that half awake,half asleep.
So you actually hear what'sbeing said to you and you can
accept or reject suggestions.
So if like your wife came in andshe's.
She said, from now on you'regonna take the garbage out every
(38:31):
Friday, no questions asked.
You're gonna open your eyes andbe like, what are you doing?
And so when somebody hires me.
And we're looking to dohypnosis.
If they're coming in to improvetheir, their golf performance
under pressure on the finalhole.
I can give them all sorts ofsuggestions the same way I did
with the golfer, with thecameras, right?
You love playing all the way tothe 18th hole.
(38:53):
Not only that, but you are your,you are better than ever on the
18th hole, your ability tofocus.
Is amazing on the anti, like Icould say things like that.
And of course if that's whatthey're hiring me for, they're
gonna accept that suggestion.
They're not gonna open theireyes and say, why are you saying
that to me if I said and.
Not only are you amazing on 18thhole, but you run right off and
(39:16):
you go to the closest bank andyou steal all the money and you
bring it back to me.
They're not, they're gonna belike, what?
So you gotta remember, you'relike half awake, half asleep.
You have awareness, you'llaccept suggestions that.
You want.
And once that happens, that'swhere it feels miraculous.
'cause we're used to trying tochange things from beta
(39:36):
conscious mind.
So we're trying I'm gonna dothat different, I'm gonna do it
different.
I'm no longer gonna eat soda,drink soda.
I'm not gonna, I'm gonnaexercise every Monday.
All these things we try to doconsciously, but we're up
against subconsciousprogramming.
So it's hard and we're not usedto it being easy.
So when suggestions can go intothe subconscious, they can be
(39:58):
instantaneous.
And that's weird to us, right?
We're like, that's weird that'simpossible.
That can't happen.
But that's literally whathappens.
So you have to allow yourself torelax and go on hypnosis by
trusting it and beingcomfortable or whatever.
And you have to be open to thesuggestions.
And if you have those two thingsgoing, it's seemingly miraculous
(40:18):
because it goes straight intoyour programming.
I love it.
All right.
I could, I'd be 100% now.
Okay.
With you.
Hypnotizing me, Don I don't knowif the guy on the street or the
guy in the yellow books.
I got you.
I'm okay with, but yeah.
The way you explained it, I'mall in now.
My question is, let's go back tobeta and Alpha.
(40:38):
Yeah.
I'm a coach.
Are those things you're doing inTheta?
Should I be doing more of thosethings day in and day out as a
coach and the alpha and beta?
Great question.
And so here's the cool, and Icannot think of his name right
now.
I have his book out there in theother room basketball coach that
(40:59):
would teach it was one of thehigh coaches he has, like Phil
Jackson.
Yeah, he did meditation with hisYes.
With his, yeah.
Yeah.
With the bolt.
So he was all into this, right?
Yep.
What was your question again?
As a coach, alpha, my questionis what can do alpha and beta or
beta and alpha to help make thatprocess with theta even easier?
(41:20):
So here's what you're gonnalove.
I love this because, so Istarted I'm gonna tie it
together, but just bear with mefor a moment.
In 2001 is when I started beinga hypnotist and having a private
practice by the, by three yearslater, I'm like, I'm not just
hypnosis anymore.
These people need to learn howto use their conscious mind
better, or say, recreate theirproblems.
(41:41):
If they're like consciouslyupset about something, they go
back to drinking, go back tosmoking, go back to sleep
problem.
So it became this combo.
And then and then fast forward,I start working with athletes
and I'm, they want the magicfix.
So they came to me first forhypnosis, and then I required
the mental training.
So I'd have long-term resultsand then, and so I, and I
(42:04):
started noticing similarities.
So hypnosis clients for years,and then athletes and the
hypnosis.
When you come outta hypnosis,you remember you're half awake,
half asleep.
It's like a power nap.
It is a power nap.
You, it feels like time flew by.
It seems like everythingdisappeared around you.
It felt amazing.
(42:25):
You wished it could continue.
There's a bunch of differentthings.
I started working more and morewith athletes and I would ask
them about the zone state.
They'd go time flew by.
Everything disappeared aroundme.
I didn't even know the cameraswere there.
I didn't even know the crowd wasthere.
I didn't even know I was on thelast station.
I could have kept going.
It felt so good.
I could have kept going.
And so there's years of mehearing these two things and I
(42:47):
was like, I'm onto somethinghere.
Yeah.
And then five years ago, sciencestarted proving that the zone
state.
The flow state, whatever youwanna call it, is alpha.
So they put elite athletes up toEKG machines and they measured
them during their peakperformance moments.
(43:08):
And they had proven then thatthe alpha state, which I already
said hypnosis, is alpha theta,depending on how deep you are,
the peak performance statehappens in alpha.
But if you break it down, itmakes sense.
Because the chatter is the beta,right?
Like you all athletes, mostathletes know if they're
(43:29):
overanalyzing, overthinking,thinking about the previous
station or around, or atournament or whole or whatever.
All that chatter is not theirfriend.
And so it makes sense.
You have to quiet that part ofyour mind.
So you're looking at alpha for aplace where you can train to.
(43:50):
And it, which goes back totraining the conscious mind to
quiet, which goes back to how doI weed out all of the conscious
issues, worry, doubt, fear,second guess, regret, like all
of those things.
So you're a big believer thatcoaches should be doing a little
bit of meditation with theirkids, their athletes every day.
I love that.
(44:11):
Yeah.
And not just the breathing, butthe thoughts we want to have, I.
The pressure situations, how wewanna feel about ourselves, how
we wanna feel about our supportsystem Yeah.
And make sure we're practicingthat support system.
So it's real.
The way that I see it is if youthink of a little bridge, yeah.
(44:32):
So you've got beta and you'vegot Alpha, theta, and Delta,
right?
So anytime if I have a clientthat has a problem going to
sleep, I'm gonna teach them,relax the bridge, I'm gonna help
them over the bridge.
If I have an athlete that isoverthinking or worrisome or a
lot of, whatever crappy thoughtsI'm gonna teach them how to
(44:52):
bridge.
Techniques to get into alpha,and since hypnosis is alpha
theta, then that's called aninduction into hypnosis.
And if you're thinking ofmeditation, then that's called,
I don't even know what they callit, and it's a meditation,
relaxation sequence orsomething.
There's different techniques.
So that is the bridge.
(45:13):
To go from beta alpha, but it'ssomething again, to get better
at with repetition.
A lot of people who have neverdone meditation before or
hypnosis before will say I'vetried that and I just can't
relax my mind long enough.
Or, I've tried that and I'm tooa DD for to do that, or, I've
got too much going on to domeditation.
I can't relax that long.
(45:34):
But that's just, again that'sthe dog run running wild.
They're not even trying.
To train it.
At that point, they're justthrowing in the towel and
instead, again, just like ifyou're training a wild animal,
you have to repeat it over andover again.
I'm, I was gonna say 54.
How old am I?
I am, I'm 54, so you know, I'min my fifties too, so I know
(45:59):
exactly what, how that what justhappened there.
I stopped counting.
Yeah.
My, my wife can never rememberher age or how long we've been
married, so I get, I'm with you.
Yeah.
Depending on our age, like howlong has that conscious mind
been running?
Wild in the woods.
Yeah.
It's a long time for a lot ofpeople.
It goes back to, I don't knowwhy my hand keeps hurting as the
(46:20):
person keeps punching a wall.
Why?
No.
You're doing this to yourselfand sometimes you need that
realization.
I, for years I'd get home from abasketball game and my wife
would be there.
My kids would be there.
And they go, how are you doing?
And I'm going, what do you mean?
How am I doing?
That crowd was so big tonightand they were so mean to you.
(46:40):
They were, and I'm like, Ididn't hear a word.
I didn't even realize the crowdwas big tonight.
I didn't, was people yelling atme?
You know is so that's alpha.
Yes, that is.
So you were in the zone, so thezone isn't just for the person
in the tournament or whatever,right?
The zone is a peak performancestate for all humans.
(47:00):
So it happens with somebodymaybe acting on a stage.
It happens, when you're on adate.
You're out on a date and therestaurant closes around you,
the chairs are up and it's darkout, and you don't even realize
it until you like tune back in.
So Alpha is this kindahyper-focused in that moment
with this calm, cool, collectedmind and everything disappears
(47:24):
around you.
So we've, we have that happenspontaneously in other different
ways, but you can also traintowards it and it's a human
thing.
It's not just.
For athletes, right?
One, one of my favorite moviesis for the love of the game with
Kevin Costner, and he's on themound and he is at Na Yankee
Stadium, and they're yelling athim and he's got this phrase
(47:44):
that's clear, the mechanism andeverything goes silent and all
and all he has is that focus ofhim in the catcher.
Nice.
And I've dreamed about that forover 50 years.
How do I get that?
How do I make my brave do that?
And I know I'm capable of it asa coach.
I've done it for years and I'vebeen in that zone as an athlete.
But it's recreating it, it'steaching it, it's so hard for
(48:06):
coaches.
So I, I love the tools you'regiving me, and I love the
approach you take.
It's hard because most people,humans on the planet doesn't
matter at what degree.
It doesn't matter how elite theyare in sports.
It doesn't matter if they're acoach, doesn't matter if they're
80.
We wanna look at them as olderand wiser.
It doesn't mean that they knowthis or understand this.
(48:28):
It's hard for even somebody at ahigh level, even as a coach to
teach it if they don'tunderstand it themselves.
Peak performance state, again,what we wanna call the zone or
the Z or flow.
Is for every human on the planetand it's available to all of us.
What you wanna know is that youare your own worst enemy.
(48:48):
You are a victim of your mindright now.
And not that people some peoplelike to play victim, but it's
not ideal, right?
Like you wanna take a leadershiprole and be a manager or
supervisor of your mind versusfeeling like a victim of it.
So if you let it just keep doingits thing, it's gonna keep
running wild.
And you, but the alpha state,again, it's normal.
(49:12):
You pass through it.
When you go to sleep, when youwake up anytime you're daydreamy
or chilled out or whatever itall humans.
Not only have access to theAlpha State, but they also have
access to this peak performancestate that's euphoric.
That feels amazing that itdoesn't even feel like it's
them.
To me, it's a spiritualconnection even, I could take
(49:33):
that one step further and sayyou, a lot of athletes will say,
it didn't even feel like me.
Like I was just pulling thetrigger.
And to me that's a connectionwith your higher self, your
greater self, your whatever,your spirit, whatever you wanna
call it.
It's almost like an out-of-bodyexperience.
And so you get in your own wayfrom that happening.
(49:55):
That is through the misuse ofyour mind.
Introducing.
Worry, doubt, regret,overthinking over trying all of
those things.
So if you can imagine reeliminating these things, like
pulling them out like they'reweeds and doing that
(50:16):
successfully, then the statethat's remains is a natural
state of peace and enjoyment andproductivity and inspiration,
and insight and momentum and allthese great things.
We have been in the flow and inthe zone.
'cause we've already talked foran hour, which is amazing.
(50:36):
I know, right?
John, you're fantastic.
Are, do you take new clients?
Is it individuals?
Do you work with groups?
Do you work with teams?
I do all of it.
But I have streamlined a lot byhaving online courses and other
pro virtual products.
So like I have an athlete mentalgame online course, I have a
golfer, I have a clay shooting,I have success for humans.
(50:58):
I have, a weight loss andwellness one.
And then I also have astress-free mindful living.
So I have multiple onlinecourses that take people through
this process.
But I have other products too,like mental training on demand
and hypnosis, audios that aredownloads.
There are large packages thatinclude private sessions, but
I've made it so that.
(51:19):
Yeah, I can reach millionsacross the planet and not have
to only be doing privatesessions.
So well done.
That's, I will pick your brainat some point if you're open to
how I can do that as well.
'cause that's my stress is I canonly work with so many
individuals at a time and I wantto do more.
I want to help more.
Where can everybody find youwebsite wise as social media?
(51:41):
So my website is dawn grant.com.
D-A-W-N-G-R-A-N t.com.
Social media, if you justsearch, Dawn Grant mental
training.
I'm on every single social mediaplatform, and I do wanna tell
the listeners that if they go todawn grant.com/free, that I have
a page there where they can tryout some of my products.
(52:04):
So whether it's a seven weektrial not a seven week.
A one week, seven day trial or,different accesses to like maybe
the online course for discountsand such.
A free hypnosis audio, that's adownload.
So it's don grant.com/free andthere's some goodies there.
I will be trying that out thisweek.
Don, thank you so much for doingthis.
(52:24):
You're fantastic.
I'm so glad we had thisconversation.
And you're welcome.
Again, I wish you well with allthe thank you, all the help
you're providing.
Great convo.
Thank you.
That was Don Grant renownedmental trainer for professional
athletes, and what aconversation it was so
eye-opening.
She reminded us that athletesneed to be practicers, not just
gamers.
(52:44):
It's a lesson that really stickswith me.
You can't wait until game day todecide how you'll handle
frustration, pressure, ormomentum swings.
I know I needed that as anathlete and as a coach, and
definitely as a parent.
You've got to practice thoseresponses daily, just like you
practice your mechanics.
That's how you build confidence,resilience, and true peak
(53:04):
performance.
I hope this conversationchallenged you, whether you're
an athlete, a coach, or aparent, to think differently
about the mental side of thegame, because as Don showed us,
it's not mystical orcomplicated, it's practical,
it's learnable, and it makes allthe difference.
Alright, before we wrap up,remember the new baseball
volleyball, basketball andsoftball recruits journals are
(53:25):
available now and thesignificant recruiting launchpad
classes are open as well.
You can find themall@coachmattrogers.com.
Hey, thanks for listening, anduntil next time, stay focused,
stay humble, and stay in thefight.
So athletes that have thatcompetitive nature, which not
all humans have, they'remotivated by sports and winning.
So I might focus on teachingthem that anger and those
outbursts and that frustrationis gonna take you out of the
zone and out of the moment andyour peak performance.
But you can't just decide at acompetition or a tournament on
(00:21):
Saturday to not do that anymore.
You have to learn and practiceother alternatives and managing
your emotions and all that on adaily basis.
Welcome back to The SignificantCoaching Podcast.
(00:41):
I'm your host, Matt Rogers.
You just heard Don Grant,renowned mental trainer for
professional athletes.
And she reminded us that youcan't just show up on game day
and expect to flip a switch.
If you want to compete at yourpeak, you have to practice not
only your skills, but also howyou'll manage your emotions,
your focus and your mindset.
(01:02):
Dawn has worked with Olympicathletes, PGA champions.
Elite performers across allsports.
But what makes her remarkable ishow she breaks down the myths
around things like hypnosis andmental training, and shows us
how practical, simple, andpowerful they can be.
One of the biggest takeawaysfrom our conversation was Don's
(01:23):
advice to raise athletes to bepracticers instead of gamers.
We've all used that phrase,haven't we?
That means building daily habitsmentally and physically that
prepare you for those pressuremoments.
It's a shift that changeseverything for athletes,
coaches, and parents alike.
What you're about to hear is amasterclass in mental
(01:45):
performance before we dive in.
A quick reminder, the newbaseball, volleyball, basketball
and softball recruits journalsare now available along with the
significant recruiting launchpadclasses, and you can find them
all@coachmattrogers.com.
Alright, let's get to myconversation with Don Grand.
(02:06):
We're gonna have a lot oflearning today.
I'm excited to share you withour audience.
We have a lot of parents withstudent athletes and a lot of
high school, college coaches,athletic directors that listen.
Before we click record, youtalked about that there's some
naysayers when it comes to themental side of sports and a lot
of people just don't understandwhat mentor performance is all
about.
(02:26):
Fill us in a little bit.
Yeah.
And it goes far and broad.
I personally even feel that thecollege hasn't caught up.
So like a sports psychologist inthe curriculum for sports
psychology.
Is not even close to what I'mdoing.
What I'm doing and what I thentherefore believe is the true
(02:46):
mental game is related to notonly like confidence, but the
quality of the thoughts worry,doubt, fear, second guessing,
trying too hard.
A wandering mind thinking aboutsomething else altogether.
A pre, a previous whole, aprevious station the score
dinner, an argument you had withsomebody earlier.
(03:06):
There's so many things thatcould be going on mentally that
take somebody out of the moment.
And we could also say, takesthem out of what would be the
peak performance state alreadyidentified as the zone or the
flow.
So we can break that down inthis.
This interview also is if welook at what the flow is or the
zones.
Day we already have apredetermined kind of recipe and
(03:30):
most people, most athletes aredoing the opposite of all of
these elements.
So in order to, have I considera really great mental game,
you've gotta have calm presenceand focus and be properly using
your conscious mind and have agood, pure, subconscious that's
got great mechanics in itthrough repetition, but also
(03:50):
great belief systems.
'cause those are thoughts.
Through repetition that becomehabitual.
And that's what we have a beliefthen.
My experience, a lot of eitherpeople just don't believe in the
mental game, which I find sofascinating'cause I'm like
enthralled in it, right?
So when I meet people that.
Don't believe in it or don'treally give it credit.
(04:11):
I'm a bit surprised because ifwe just say as simply as, will
worry cause you not to playwell?
Or will anger cause you not toplay well?
Or if you're still focused on aprevious hole or station or
stand, like most people wouldsay, yeah, yeah, that does cause
a problem.
And that is the mental game.
(04:32):
Overthinking the score being inthe final.
Being in the lead and trying tomaintain that lead or doing a
shoot off and trying to staycalm under that pressure.
That's all mental game stuff.
It's so interesting you talkabout that because I know you've
worked with a number of PGAprofessionals.
We saw Tommy Fleetwood yesterdayand has not won a PGA
(04:57):
championship yet.
He's one of my favorite golfers.
I root for him every time heplays.
And yesterday he gets the 16th,15th hole.
He is up by two strokes.
He falls apart.
Brutal.
And you could just tellafterwards that he didn't have
an answer for it.
And I've been there, I was thattype of athlete that I was
(05:17):
really good.
And then when the pressure cameon I lost it a little bit.
I couldn't get my focus back.
Yeah.
What do we say to thoseathletes?
After a round like that, orafter a game like that where
they had the lead, they hadeverything in control, and
something in between their ears,they lost their focus.
What, where do we begin withthat situation?
(05:39):
Again, I feel like it'seducation, right?
Because even at the PJ Tour Prolevel, they may not totally
understand the mental game, andit doesn't really matter how
elite an athlete is.
It does not mean that theytotally have a grasp on it.
I've seen that over and overagain.
Some of them have plowedthrough, some of them have been
doing their sport for so longthat they maybe have acquired a
(06:03):
mental game without realizingit.
But to be able to implement somemental skills in moments like
that if they don't understand itenough to acknowledge my mental
game's important right now, oris wavering and how to fix it
and what to do about it.
And then make the correction,then they'll just fall apart in
(06:24):
a situation like that.
And I think golf is a perfectexample.
We see it all the time on Sundayin the last holes.
And I, for me, that, which, thatmakes golf interesting and fun
to watch because I find thatfascinating and funny that
somebody at that level.
Can still not have a strongmental game.
(06:44):
And one of the other things istheir go-to their go-to is
mechanics, their go-to is, maybechanging the putter or I don't
know.
It's usually something physical.
Oh, my elbows sore.
Yeah, they, they are thesego-tos.
Without recognizing, again,understanding or acknowledging
that there's a mental aspect andthat's invisible unless you
(07:06):
understand it and then you canstart paying attention to it.
And that's probably why he waslike confused, right?
Yeah.
Where do you start?
Let's put you in that situation.
He's walking off the course he'ssigned his card and he's got 10
minutes with you before he isgotta go do something else.
Where do you begin?
When somebody wants something sobadly loses it that they have it
(07:27):
in their hands.
What's that conversation looklike?
Again, that would be raising theawareness, right?
So in that moment, if I had anopportunity to talk to him and
he was willing to listen, itprobably wouldn't be the five
minutes after.
It'd be the next day orsomething.
Sure.
And he would probably.
I would ask him, what was goingthrough your mind at that time?
What kind of thoughts were youhaving?
(07:49):
And I'll, for some people thethoughts are either they're also
elusive.
They're so used to thinking acertain way.
It's so familiar.
It's like wearing the sameperfume or cologne every day.
If you constantly doubt yourselfor worry or regret, or, have
belief systems that like, I'llnever win on the tour, or I can
never hold it together for anentire round whatever the phrase
(08:11):
is.
Sometimes it's so familiar thatpeople don't even realize.
So it can take a bit of mepulling, a lot of times people
will say, I don't have negativethoughts, but then once I start
questioning and talking to them,they're there.
They just don't realize it.
Another thing that they'll denyis fear.
One of the PGA guys I wasworking with, he was in the lead
(08:34):
moving into the final hole onSunday.
And he started having thethoughts of, if I win this, both
of my college, both of my kids'college would be paid for and I
could get the sports car hewanted, Austin Martin, I'd get
the sports car I always wanted.
And you start thinking that way.
And then what, right?
You can either become toocautious, too careful, you can
(08:56):
try too hard.
Those things will get in the wayof mechanics.
All the time.
So you know, it's, it isdefinitely a lot more than a 10
minute conversation or an hourafterwards.
It has, you have to be a willingparticipant to listen and then
start really digging in thereand start having an awareness.
And in this example.
That player may or may not havethat awareness right now, but it
(09:18):
would be a matter of time ofworking together to start paying
attention to the negativethoughts or belief systems that
are there, and then let's starttackling them and figuring out
how to use your conscious mindbetter and subconsciously change
some belief systems.
But you're saying it's not justthe negative thoughts.
Sometimes it's the overlypositive thoughts, I get to pay
(09:39):
for my kids' education.
I get this car, we, I don't haveto worry about this debt.
Sometimes that can weigh on usthe positive you just as much as
the negative.
Yeah.
Especially pj, you're talkingabout a million dollars and how
much that can change your lifeand it's down to the final hole
in the final shot.
Yeah it's a big thing.
Talk, as far as pressure.
(10:00):
That same pro, just, at anothertime we were working together,
he had said to me that he neverlooked at the score, right?
He didn't wanna know score.
He knew on the golf courseswhere the scoreboards were, and
he would deliberately not lookat them.
And then when the, the littleladies are walking around with
the scores, he'd deliberatelynot look.
(10:20):
And he said that he had thatpretty much under control,
except when the cameras wouldcome.
And the large group groups ofpeople would come because that
was the clue.
He was in the top five probably.
And as soon as the cameras hadcome, he had fall apart.
We did work around that, butmental training and some
hypnosis and the hypnosis helpedhim change the belief around the
(10:41):
cameras, meaning that's great.
I, I gave him suggestions of.
The cameras are here.
I get to show the world my greatmechanics and how far I've come
and I love that there, thatthose cameras are here.
Like I totally shifted theperspective for'em.
I love that.
Yeah.
I was a college basketball coachfor a long time, and for me, it,
(11:03):
and you tell me if I was offbase here, but I, for me, as a
shooter.
I don't want my shootersthinking about the scoreboard
either.
I don't want them thinking evenabout the moment.
I want them going back to theirtraining.
I gotta jump stop.
I, if I have a solid base, manI'm gonna make it.
And that's where I gotta get, Igotta get to that solid base.
(11:24):
I know when I'm solid and myfeet are locked, I'm gonna make
it.
Is, are those the type of thingsyou're taking an athlete
through?
What you're referring to again,is the mechanics, right?
Yeah.
A go-to.
Yeah.
But it is a familiar go-to.
But the way that's working withthe mind that's beautiful is the
conscious mind can only focus onone thing at a time.
(11:46):
It's got, it's called, backthousands of years in Eastern
philosophy, it was called onePointed Attention.
The, this knowing has beenaround for a long time.
So if you tell your consciousmind.
Focus on the process and you canmanage it and be a supervisor of
that through that meaning stayon the process.
(12:08):
Of course it's gonna wannawander.
It reminds me of a little puppythat hasn't had training yet.
It doesn't know how to sit andheal and you're teaching it, but
it like wanders off and you go,come back.
Come back.
That's how your conscious mindis at the beginning of, any kind
of mental training.
Like you, it's wandering all thetime, right?
So you can tell it to focus onthe process and be there,
(12:28):
there's lots of practice andability to do that'cause there's
an understanding, but actuallygetting it to do it.
Is the next phase, right?
The next step in learning andgetting better.
I kept thinking, I'm gonna goback to this golf tournament
yesterday at the last three orfour holes I kept, I don't know
why my brain thinks this way,but I kept going, all right, I
find this guy's caddy.
(12:50):
What am I saying to him?
So this may be a business foryou.
You might wanna start focusingon caddies or the relationship
that the caddy and the golfer,because Yeah, I just kept going.
What would I say to this guy tocalm his nerves?
He just hit a bad shot.
He's the, one of the bestgolfers, one of the best strike
golf strikers in the game ballstrikers in the game.
(13:10):
How do I get him back toremember that?
So it's, yeah I don't know whymy head went to that caddy, but
I guess it's being a coach, aslong as I had it, I was my
player's person.
I was the guy they counted on toget them back mentally on track.
And I don't know if I ever did agood job of it for sure.
No, I totally understand.
Back in 2008, I worked withVijay Singh and one full day I
(13:33):
worked with his caddy becausethat is the person in his ear.
And another thing that's poppinginto my mind is related to child
athletes and parents.
The parents are the caddy,right?
So a parent needs to understandhow to, be more than just the
mechanics, like understandingthe mind.
I have like online courses forathletes and one of the things I
(13:56):
say is that.
If a parent's going to enroll orregister their child for one of
these online courses, like youdo it too because you need to
speak the same language.
If the athlete is learningFrench and you don't know
French, there is nocommunication there.
Like you need to learn thelanguage and what your child's
working on so that you can betheir caddy in any sport, not
(14:19):
just golf, right?
You can be their caddy or sayingthe right thing.
You're not just saying.
It's okay buddy.
Move on.
Just forget about it.
That doesn't, that's notproductive.
It's not constructive.
And that's what a lot of peoplewill do.
Or they'll get upset with, oh,you can do better than that.
This is unbelievable.
Which is de degrading, right?
There's so many differentthings.
But looking at things in ahealthy, constructive,
(14:42):
productive way and learning fromexperiences.
Every miss is a bright flashing,neon sign.
Of what you need to work on toget where you wanna go.
But what happens instead ispeople get mad, they get upset,
they get sad, they get angry,they get resentful.
They wanna quit.
(15:03):
They just wanna forget about it.
They just wanna move on, pretendit didn't happen.
And there's some mental trainersout there that will even tell
them to visualize that they didit.
Period.
Yeah, there is some of that Iteach, but there's, it's much
broader than that.
If it's just pretend you hit itor made it period and then move
on, that's just delusional,right?
(15:24):
That's fake.
And your belief system won'teven accept it, and it's not
gonna do anything.
You have to pull out theinformation like, why did I miss
and not be mad about it if Icontinually doubt myself.
And am thinking about maybeanother teammate and how they
(15:45):
maybe.
And like clay shooting, you'rein squads teams basically, and
you take turns to go up andshoot.
So if there's a, maybe a higherlevel, higher class shooter and
that person is shooting a pairin a certain order and your plan
was to shoot it in the oppositeorder and you start doubting
yourself because that guy'shigher class level and he's a
(16:07):
better shooter, so I'm gonna dowhat he says.
And then you don't feelcomfortable, but you say pull
anyways, and you try to shootlike that whole scenario.
So it's really being able to be,confident with yourself and
believing in yourself and notjust trying to morph into what
somebody else is doing.
There's so many different thingslike that, and every personality
is different, so it can play outin different ways.
(16:28):
Like anger may be more of anissue for some people.
Yeah.
Yeah, it definitely was for meas a coach, as, and I worked
with a sports psychologist acouple years back, and I told
her, I said, I, there's too manytimes I'm walking outta practice
or a game and I'm beating myselfup because I'm like, why did I
say that?
Why did I handle it, thatsituation the way I did?
(16:48):
And one of the things we workedon is.
Take, having that situation inmy head and going, okay, how
would I handle it differently ifthat happens again?
So I'm curious about that.
'cause for me, I, I, there's somany families that have.
Kids that play volleyball andbasketball and soccer and
softball that listen to this.
So I don't wanna stay on golffor too long, but me as a
(17:12):
golfer, I had a pro fif 20 yearsago, tell me, here's what I want
you to tell yourself.
Every time you swing the club,use your arms to swing the club
to the target.
And it's amazing what thatphrase did for me.
And I try to do the same thingfor my daughter who's a
volleyball player, before sheserves.
I'll go remember your breath andfind your pace.
(17:32):
Yeah.
And it's amazing what that doesfor her, just to remember those
two things.
Is it that simple sometimes foran athlete?
And that's similar example towhat you said before, and it
goes back to that one point ofattention.
Yeah.
And a singular focus.
And the process is a good thingto focus on because it's in that
moment.
And the thing is there is moregoing on.
(17:54):
That's a mental cue, but.
Once you start throwing in otherthings my teammate is being
nasty to me.
The other side, the other teamis cheating.
I'm winning or I'm on a streak.
Once you start throwing thosethings in, then it makes it
tricky to focus on.
Something like a process.
(18:16):
So that's where it getscomplicated.
It sounds like a simple solutionand it is a good solution, but
you have to train your mind tobe able to stay on it and to not
go down these rabbit holes whenthese other things happen.
That's really the trick.
And so it sounds, it's keep itsimple, stupid, the kiss thing.
But it's harder than it seemsbecause the conscious mind is.
(18:39):
This puppy, right?
Or a lot of times I think of itlike a dog that's been living in
the wild and all of a sudden youwanna domesticate it.
So you know, depending on yourage, how long has your conscious
mind been living in the wild?
Yeah, a long time and tell me ifyou're seeing this too, but with
YouTube and Instagram now,there's so much coaching going
(19:01):
on.
You can get, you can go down afunnel of whether you, whatever
athlete, type of athlete youare, coach, there's 25 people
telling you how to.
Yeah.
And my worry is always there'stoo many chefs in the kitchen.
There's too many voices in theirhead.
Yeah.
How do we, and you gotta findthat person.
You gotta find that person, thatvoice that fits you.
(19:22):
Not, like you said, not yourteammate, not the person that's
maybe performing better thanyou.
You gotta find the one for you.
How do we do that?
Yeah.
How do we fight through the messto get to that voice?
Yeah, so you know, I have a fewexamples coming to my mind or
analogies.
I can remember 20 years ago or15 years ago listening to golf
(19:42):
commentators talk about you aparticular pro swing.
And there was almost thisunderlying belief that the swing
ha it must be a certain way.
And that one's weird and thatone's wrong and they shouldn't
be doing that.
And then as a little bit oftime, a little bit, it's time
went on, there seemed to be moreof an acceptance of the
different swings and I don'treally hear that, pointing the
(20:04):
finger like there's somethingwrong with that swing.
And then I've come over,'cause Iown a shotgun club and so I'm,
and I have a lot of clay,target, clay sporting clay's
competitors as clients.
They, the way that I see thatover there is they will
instructor hop, they'll goaround the country and they'll
hire different instructors.
And some instructors are worldchampions, so they're like, oh,
(20:27):
that one's a world champion, soI'm gonna go to that one.
And that one's, in the Hall ofFame, I'm gonna go to that one.
But there's all these littlenuances in their techniques and
some techniques are completelydifferent than others.
And of course that.
Person, that instructor, thatworld champion, they think
theirs is the right way, andwhat happens is this confusion.
And I do feel like every body isdifferent.
(20:47):
And again, this goes back 15, 20years when I was watching the
golfers be ridiculed for nothaving that perfect stroke or
something.
Everybody's body is different.
Everybody's flow is different asfar as some people are hyper and
some people are chilled out andyou gotta really figure out what
works for you.
And I think it does help tomaybe dabble just to figure out.
(21:10):
I like that, or I don't likethat.
This works for me.
This doesn't work for me.
But be really cautious to not goto a coach.
That 100% says it's my way orthe highway.
This is the only way.
Even if it's not working for youor doesn't feel comfortable,
like you've gotta move on andyou've got to find somebody that
you're compatible with.
It's no different than any otherrelationship.
(21:31):
Have somebody that respects andhonors where you're at, has some
expertise that they cancontribute to it.
But.
Not think that, what they haveis for every human being.
I don't know how much you workwith kids.
I know you work with a ton ofadults and professionals that
are doing their thing at a veryhigh level.
Is there a difference in how wedevelop a 12-year-old athlete
(21:55):
and a 16-year-old athlete, a20-year-old athlete, and a
30-year-old athlete?
Is there a difference in, in howwe communicate these things?
Yes and no.
The no is there's no differencewith.
Worry is worry and doubt isdoubt.
And lack of confidence is lackof confidence.
And fear is fear and gettingoverly upset and not being able
(22:17):
to refocus.
That's the same no matter whatage.
What I do notice is the olderpeople get and the longer
they've been.
Performing, it reminds me of areally long file cabinet, right?
They have all these files inthere of what could happen and
what could go wrong, and the howmany times I've been to this
event and I've never won, sothey can have a lot more crud in
(22:38):
there.
But the positive.
Is they have a lot more wisdomand a lot more experience,
right?
So then you flip to the youngerand they think they have wisdom,
but they don't necessarily,right?
They don't have all thatexperience.
So there's still newbies atdifferent things.
Maybe a new tournament or firsttime they're competing at a
certain level or whatever it is.
(22:59):
And they don't have that bigfile cabinet.
The positive of not having thatbig PO file cabinet is they
don't have all those fears andexpectations going into
something.
Those preconceived ideas like,I'll never win here'cause I
never have in 10 years.
Something like that.
They go in and that little chipon their shoulder helps'em a
little bit.
(23:19):
So it, and the other thing I'veobserved is the younger they
are, it and this is the case forevery human you have to want.
Whatever it is that you're beingconnected with.
The same with a coach or,anyway, if I talk about mental
training though, it can't justbe the parent wants this kid,
like the parents watching thiskid have temper tantrums, which
(23:41):
we all have.
It's not just kids, if they'rekicking their clubs or they're
throwing their ball and they'rewhatever, upset and sad or angry
the whole rest of the night andtaking it out on the dog when
they get home.
Like this.
This happens at every age, butthere has to be.
The person themselves has towant to look at that and has to
(24:02):
want to work on it.
And so that to me is the onlystruggle with working with
somebody younger is they have towant it.
It can't be the parents thatwant it for them because again,
this is all invisible, right?
So the quality of somebody'sthoughts is happening in their
head.
They have to be the one toassess it.
(24:23):
Work on it, work on new skills,create new habits of how they
think about things, and youcan't just put that on somebody.
So those, that would be what Iwould say about that.
Yeah.
I love that.
We talk about, you hear it on TVwhen you're, whenever you're
watching a game, there's arookie up at the plate at a
baseball game, or a rookiequarterback, or rookie kicker,
(24:45):
whatever it may be, and theannouncer will say.
He may be just young enough notto know the situation he's in or
she's in.
My question for you is, let's goback to the file cabinet.
How do we teach 12 year olds, 13year olds, 14 year olds that are
really getting into thecompetitive side of their sport?
How do we teach them what tokeep in the file cabinet and
(25:07):
what to throw in the garbagecan?
Yeah.
Is that an even a.
An approach that we can take.
I'm begging as a parent of youngstudents, again, what I'm doing
is different than even what'staught in school.
So I can talk about for sportspsychology.
So for what I'm teaching, what Iteach is life skills.
They are how to use your mind toyour best ability for peak
(25:32):
performance at everything.
So if you're looking to.
Or you see you've got a feistykid that gets really angry and
gets really down on themselves.
That's not just in sport, that'sin life also.
That's a character thing.
And my feeling is you've got tofirst have the awareness and the
understanding and learn aboutthis and learn different ways,
(25:52):
but you've gotta practice it.
And a lot of times people aremotivated by sports.
So athletes that have thatcompetitive nature, which not
all humans have, they'remotivated by sports and winning.
So a, I might focus on youteaching them that anger and
those outbursts and thatfrustration is gonna take you
out of the zone and out of themoment and your peak
(26:13):
performance.
But you can't just decide at acompetition or a tournament on
Saturday to not do that anymore.
You have to learn and practiceother alternatives and managing
your emotions and all that on adaily basis.
So you had to learn how to dothat.
And then you've gotta get therepetition ahead of the
(26:34):
tournament.
No different than mechanics.
You don't change your mechanicsthe day before, the week before
an important to tournament.
You have to do it ahead of time.
And that is absolutely the samewith the mental game.
So you have to learn skills andwork on your mental game ahead
of time.
And the practice field is life.
And that's another reallyimportant thing that I teach.
(26:55):
I can show people and teachpeople what to do, but you've
gotta practice it daily in life.
And then when you show up onSaturday, it's second nature.
It's not some foreign thingyou're trying to figure out how
to implement.
But the win-win is you're gonnahave better performance in the
tournament.
You, you're also gonna be betterin life, like having understood
(27:17):
and managing something likeanger is gonna be good for
school and work andrelationships and everything
else.
I love that.
Give us a couple of things thatwe can do with our kids.
If we're parents or coaches andwe've got kids from that
10-year-old to 18-year-oldrange, what are some of those
things that we can practice withthem every day?
(27:39):
Whether we're dropping'em off atschool, we've got that five
minute car ride to school, orwe're picking'em a up after
school.
Are there things that we can doto work on those things and
focus on those things?
It's complicated.
Again, for a parent that doesn'tknow French, right?
But I can teach you some thingslike but again, most parents
don't even know how to do thisthemselves for real, right?
(28:00):
Yeah.
Like you got a lot of parentsthat still have their anger
outburst or resentful orregretful or worrisome or
doubtful, and.
It's a human issue.
Yeah.
So if the adult can first startrecognizing, wait, I do this
myself and I wanna learn how todo it differently myself.
And so I'm learning as I'mteaching.
And so what, what would I dodifferent here?
(28:21):
And the thing is let's say achild again, picked up from
school, they bombed a test thatday, right?
It would be more likereflecting.
So this would, in sports, it'swhat I call post segment
routine.
Post is after the sha, after thewhole, after the round, after
the event, after the station,whatever it is.
A time to reflect in aconstructive way.
(28:42):
Like what?
In starting with what did I do?
Especially, I don't know, let'ssay with test taking and a kid
is working on doing well andget, increasing their grades,
maybe improving their grades.
So maybe I did well, was Ireally did study a.
Hard this time.
Like I did take the time tostudy.
I went in, I slept good lastnight.
(29:03):
But that moment of, when Ididn't know the answer is when I
started getting anxious andfalling apart and then I froze.
So you got some positive andthen some negatives.
I don't even call'em negativesnormally, but there, there's the
information, right?
Yeah, of course.
There's the neon sign and soit's okay, so what can we do
about that, honey?
So you're telling me now thatunder pressure you start feeling
(29:26):
a lot of anxiety and then youfreeze.
So we need to work on that.
Let's.
Again, I'd probably be seekinghelp you could Google maybe like
how to breathe through anxiety,how to change your thoughts, how
to redirect the mind tosomething more constructive.
It's just easier said than done.
So it's a little tricky becausethere are things, yeah, like
(29:46):
breathing 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, andrelaxing the body all the way
down, like 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
But doing that right now,'causeI'm telling you, you two is one
thing, but doing it when youhave practiced it over time,
then it will have more effect.
Yeah maybe that's the greatthing is on the way to school,
on the way home you'repracticing those breathing
techniques.
A parent can take 20 seconds tosay, Hey.
(30:10):
Things go bad today.
You get in a situation whereyou're confused or you don't
have the answer or you don'tknow what to say.
Just take that breath, it'scount.
Count in five.
Count in out five.
I love that.
And I, to me I want to be moreof that parent.
I don't want, I don't want thedrive to school and the drive
home to be, a psychologist'soffice, I don't wanna be their
(30:32):
psychiatrist, but I do want tobe able to share tips and tools
with them and provide thatsupport.
And I think most of us parentsdo, yeah, I think most of us
parents, and you're a parenttoo.
We wanna just, we wanna give ourkids some tools that nobody gave
us.
Yeah, for sure.
And on my social media, Iactually do little 30 62nd reels
(30:54):
with tips constantly.
And that's all free too.
So that would be one way thatpeople could learn some tips.
But the, pausing in a moment,another kind of human issue, not
for just kids, but it'ssomething that adults can work
on and then teach their kids, isto not be reactionary, right?
If we react instead of respond.
(31:15):
There are underlying beliefs orpatterns and habits that there
are these knee jerk reactions.
So to be able to recognize,which ones are problematic,
which ones are causing theissues somebody says.
You're stupid, I hate you.
Does somebody, the only reasonthat would affect somebody is if
(31:35):
they believed it on some levelthemselves.
If they didn't believe it,they'd probably look over their
shoulder and be like, who you?
Who are you talking to?
Wait, what?
That's not me.
But if it hits that kid and thekid's crying after school or
wanting to tell you about thisor ready to fight that person,
that's because it's like an openwound in there and that person
(31:58):
pushed that button.
So then that's another spot ofawareness.
Honey, that's not true for you.
And the thing is if you'renoticing that those kind of
words can affect you that way,then let's look at it.
Do you really feel that you area dummy and nobody likes you, or
whatever the words were?
I noticed that, these kidsignore me at school, so then
(32:19):
they feel like they haveevidence of it.
So then it would be like, whatkids do you play with?
And what kids do seem to smilewhen you're coming over?
And so you start to shift andhave them focusing on the
positives'cause they are there.
They're there, even if it's theteacher really loves you.
Did you notice how she did blah,blah, blah, blah the other day?
And so it's repetition inthought that create beliefs.
(32:42):
So if there's already a beliefdown in there that's negative,
then it was repeated enough thatit got in there in, in one form
or fashion.
So the old fashioned way takes21 days to change a habit.
You have to, repeat somethingmore positive and then focus on
the, the proof.
(33:02):
People do like me.
And then that can replace thenegative belief or that's one of
the reasons I do hypnosisbecause we can go in there even
faster and just change thebelief systems in the
programming.
Let's dive into that.
I've been holding back, but Iwant, I wanna get into hypnosis
with you because I'm one ofthose people, I'm scared to
death to do it, i've seen somepeople that have walked away
(33:26):
with amazing results and somepeople have walked away with
nothing.
What does hypnosis mean to you?
And yeah.
Why do you promote it?
It's funny because it's one morething that I'm so enmeshed in
that I find it interesting thatthere's still people out there
that don't understand it, butthey've, there's misconceptions.
I would say that the movies,media has probably fed into the
(33:50):
misconceptions, right?
Because it's entertaining,right?
Yeah.
But that doesn't mean it'struth.
So the, here's the truth.
First of all, meditation seemsto be a little bit more wide,
widely accepted nowadays.
It wasn't always like that.
But if it was almost like a, ahair and a.
Rabbit, whatever, a rabbit and aturtle and a race or something,
(34:11):
right?
Like the me, the acceptance ofmeditation is a little bit ahead
of the acceptance of hypnosis,but the bottom line is that the
same state of mind, so they'reidentical in the state of mind,
but so is some other things thatyou're super familiar with.
So I like to think of a slope uphere is beta and then there's
(34:32):
alpha.
Theta and delta.
So if you think of like thismountain slope or whatever, beta
is, when is the name that wehave for measuring the
conscious?
'cause there's a subconsciousalso.
This is the conscious mind.
It's the conscious mindbrainwave activity.
That's the chatter.
So if you wanna think about itwith sports, that's when your
(34:53):
mind's do this, don't do that.
And oh my gosh, this ishorrible.
Blah, blah, blah, blah.
So those are all the chefs inthe kitchen?
Yes.
The little chatter.
Okay.
The analyzing.
You're, doing a test and you'rethinking about that you're not
smart, or you know somebody'stalking to you and you're not
really thinking about whatthey're saying.
'cause you're thinking aboutwhat you're gonna say back.
That's all this chatter, that'sbeta activity.
(35:14):
That's where we are.
Most of the time in our wakingstate.
So then again, conscious mind,not subconscious.
If you relax the conscious minda little bit, so that can be
through something like abreathing technique or focusing
on one thing instead of all thischatter, you can move it down
into alpha.
So that's a quieter, a slightlyquieter conscious mind.
(35:36):
And it's a range.
It's not like a light switch.
There's ranges.
The range below that is theta.
So in like normal terms, wewould say alpha.
In our life is like I was juststarting to relax.
Like you're sitting on thecouch, you're just starting to
chill out.
You're not thinking about amillion things.
You're starting to relax.
That's alpha theta is maybe youclose your eyes or not, but you
(36:01):
could be super daydreaming.
But if you're closing your eyes,you're almost asleep.
But you're not asleep.
And so if somebody walks in.
A kid walks in, a dog, walks in,a spouse walks in.
You can hear them, you can,because you're not asleep, but
you're super relaxed.
That's the data right below thatis delta, and that is what we
call sleep.
So you can think of thisprocess, this slope, beta,
(36:24):
alpha, theta, delta as theprocess of going to sleep.
You got wide awake and you havesleep.
Okay at the bottom.
So not only do you pass throughalpha and theta on your way to
go to sleep every single timeever in your whole life because
they're just measurements ofconscious mind activity.
When you wake up, you pass backup through them to get back to
(36:44):
beta.
Or you might hover, if you'rehalf awake, half asleep in bed,
flip flop, flopping, you'reprobably coming up to theta a
little bit.
And then going back to Delta tosleep.
If you go back to sleep if youwake up and you have a hard time
going back to sleep, you'reprobably all the way back up a
beta.
So this is all stuff you'refamiliar with.
Hypno.
Let's go with hyp meditationfirst.
(37:04):
Meditation.
Is alpha or theta, depending onhow relaxed you are.
You could be lightly inmeditation or you can be deeply
in meditation.
Hypnosis is an identical stateof mind, so light hypnosis is
alpha, and then deep hypnosis istheta.
And if I have a really tiredclient, like a roofer.
Who's been working on a roof in9,000 degree weather all day,
(37:27):
he's gonna go right into Delta,right?
It's hard.
It's hard for me to even keephim awake.
So a hypnotist gives relaxationtechniques like taking a good
deep breath, relax yourforehead.
There's all different.
Things I can even make'em up,tighten your little toe and then
release it, you're helping theconscious mind to focus on
something, and then also itrelaxes the body.
(37:48):
So in meditation you can be,you're hovering in this half
awake, half asleep hypnosis.
You're hovering.
Most meditation is like guided.
You might be going on a littlewalk on the beach or through the
woods, and there can bemetaphors that help you with
your confidence or whatever.
Or there can be mantras, likerepeating a word over and over
again.
Hypnosis just takes it toanother level.
(38:10):
So suggestions can be given toyou at that time.
You're not unconscious andyou're not asleep.
You ha you're that half awake,half asleep.
So you actually hear what'sbeing said to you and you can
accept or reject suggestions.
So if like your wife came in andshe's.
She said, from now on you'regonna take the garbage out every
(38:31):
Friday, no questions asked.
You're gonna open your eyes andbe like, what are you doing?
And so when somebody hires me.
And we're looking to dohypnosis.
If they're coming in to improvetheir, their golf performance
under pressure on the finalhole.
I can give them all sorts ofsuggestions the same way I did
with the golfer, with thecameras, right?
You love playing all the way tothe 18th hole.
(38:53):
Not only that, but you are your,you are better than ever on the
18th hole, your ability tofocus.
Is amazing on the anti, like Icould say things like that.
And of course if that's whatthey're hiring me for, they're
gonna accept that suggestion.
They're not gonna open theireyes and say, why are you saying
that to me if I said and.
Not only are you amazing on 18thhole, but you run right off and
(39:16):
you go to the closest bank andyou steal all the money and you
bring it back to me.
They're not, they're gonna belike, what?
So you gotta remember, you'relike half awake, half asleep.
You have awareness, you'llaccept suggestions that.
You want.
And once that happens, that'swhere it feels miraculous.
'cause we're used to trying tochange things from beta
(39:36):
conscious mind.
So we're trying I'm gonna dothat different, I'm gonna do it
different.
I'm no longer gonna eat soda,drink soda.
I'm not gonna, I'm gonnaexercise every Monday.
All these things we try to doconsciously, but we're up
against subconsciousprogramming.
So it's hard and we're not usedto it being easy.
So when suggestions can go intothe subconscious, they can be
(39:58):
instantaneous.
And that's weird to us, right?
We're like, that's weird that'simpossible.
That can't happen.
But that's literally whathappens.
So you have to allow yourself torelax and go on hypnosis by
trusting it and beingcomfortable or whatever.
And you have to be open to thesuggestions.
And if you have those two thingsgoing, it's seemingly miraculous
(40:18):
because it goes straight intoyour programming.
I love it.
All right.
I could, I'd be 100% now.
Okay.
With you.
Hypnotizing me, Don I don't knowif the guy on the street or the
guy in the yellow books.
I got you.
I'm okay with, but yeah.
The way you explained it, I'mall in now.
My question is, let's go back tobeta and Alpha.
(40:38):
Yeah.
I'm a coach.
Are those things you're doing inTheta?
Should I be doing more of thosethings day in and day out as a
coach and the alpha and beta?
Great question.
And so here's the cool, and Icannot think of his name right
now.
I have his book out there in theother room basketball coach that
(40:59):
would teach it was one of thehigh coaches he has, like Phil
Jackson.
Yeah, he did meditation with hisYes.
With his, yeah.
Yeah.
With the bolt.
So he was all into this, right?
Yep.
What was your question again?
As a coach, alpha, my questionis what can do alpha and beta or
beta and alpha to help make thatprocess with theta even easier?
(41:20):
So here's what you're gonnalove.
I love this because, so Istarted I'm gonna tie it
together, but just bear with mefor a moment.
In 2001 is when I started beinga hypnotist and having a private
practice by the, by three yearslater, I'm like, I'm not just
hypnosis anymore.
These people need to learn howto use their conscious mind
better, or say, recreate theirproblems.
(41:41):
If they're like consciouslyupset about something, they go
back to drinking, go back tosmoking, go back to sleep
problem.
So it became this combo.
And then and then fast forward,I start working with athletes
and I'm, they want the magicfix.
So they came to me first forhypnosis, and then I required
the mental training.
So I'd have long-term resultsand then, and so I, and I
(42:04):
started noticing similarities.
So hypnosis clients for years,and then athletes and the
hypnosis.
When you come outta hypnosis,you remember you're half awake,
half asleep.
It's like a power nap.
It is a power nap.
You, it feels like time flew by.
It seems like everythingdisappeared around you.
It felt amazing.
(42:25):
You wished it could continue.
There's a bunch of differentthings.
I started working more and morewith athletes and I would ask
them about the zone state.
They'd go time flew by.
Everything disappeared aroundme.
I didn't even know the cameraswere there.
I didn't even know the crowd wasthere.
I didn't even know I was on thelast station.
I could have kept going.
It felt so good.
I could have kept going.
And so there's years of mehearing these two things and I
(42:47):
was like, I'm onto somethinghere.
Yeah.
And then five years ago, sciencestarted proving that the zone
state.
The flow state, whatever youwanna call it, is alpha.
So they put elite athletes up toEKG machines and they measured
them during their peakperformance moments.
(43:08):
And they had proven then thatthe alpha state, which I already
said hypnosis, is alpha theta,depending on how deep you are,
the peak performance statehappens in alpha.
But if you break it down, itmakes sense.
Because the chatter is the beta,right?
Like you all athletes, mostathletes know if they're
(43:29):
overanalyzing, overthinking,thinking about the previous
station or around, or atournament or whole or whatever.
All that chatter is not theirfriend.
And so it makes sense.
You have to quiet that part ofyour mind.
So you're looking at alpha for aplace where you can train to.
(43:50):
And it, which goes back totraining the conscious mind to
quiet, which goes back to how doI weed out all of the conscious
issues, worry, doubt, fear,second guess, regret, like all
of those things.
So you're a big believer thatcoaches should be doing a little
bit of meditation with theirkids, their athletes every day.
I love that.
(44:11):
Yeah.
And not just the breathing, butthe thoughts we want to have, I.
The pressure situations, how wewanna feel about ourselves, how
we wanna feel about our supportsystem Yeah.
And make sure we're practicingthat support system.
So it's real.
The way that I see it is if youthink of a little bridge, yeah.
(44:32):
So you've got beta and you'vegot Alpha, theta, and Delta,
right?
So anytime if I have a clientthat has a problem going to
sleep, I'm gonna teach them,relax the bridge, I'm gonna help
them over the bridge.
If I have an athlete that isoverthinking or worrisome or a
lot of, whatever crappy thoughtsI'm gonna teach them how to
(44:52):
bridge.
Techniques to get into alpha,and since hypnosis is alpha
theta, then that's called aninduction into hypnosis.
And if you're thinking ofmeditation, then that's called,
I don't even know what they callit, and it's a meditation,
relaxation sequence orsomething.
There's different techniques.
So that is the bridge.
(45:13):
To go from beta alpha, but it'ssomething again, to get better
at with repetition.
A lot of people who have neverdone meditation before or
hypnosis before will say I'vetried that and I just can't
relax my mind long enough.
Or, I've tried that and I'm tooa DD for to do that, or, I've
got too much going on to domeditation.
I can't relax that long.
(45:34):
But that's just, again that'sthe dog run running wild.
They're not even trying.
To train it.
At that point, they're justthrowing in the towel and
instead, again, just like ifyou're training a wild animal,
you have to repeat it over andover again.
I'm, I was gonna say 54.
How old am I?
I am, I'm 54, so you know, I'min my fifties too, so I know
(45:59):
exactly what, how that what justhappened there.
I stopped counting.
Yeah.
My, my wife can never rememberher age or how long we've been
married, so I get, I'm with you.
Yeah.
Depending on our age, like howlong has that conscious mind
been running?
Wild in the woods.
Yeah.
It's a long time for a lot ofpeople.
It goes back to, I don't knowwhy my hand keeps hurting as the
(46:20):
person keeps punching a wall.
Why?
No.
You're doing this to yourselfand sometimes you need that
realization.
I, for years I'd get home from abasketball game and my wife
would be there.
My kids would be there.
And they go, how are you doing?
And I'm going, what do you mean?
How am I doing?
That crowd was so big tonightand they were so mean to you.
(46:40):
They were, and I'm like, Ididn't hear a word.
I didn't even realize the crowdwas big tonight.
I didn't, was people yelling atme?
You know is so that's alpha.
Yes, that is.
So you were in the zone, so thezone isn't just for the person
in the tournament or whatever,right?
The zone is a peak performancestate for all humans.
(47:00):
So it happens with somebodymaybe acting on a stage.
It happens, when you're on adate.
You're out on a date and therestaurant closes around you,
the chairs are up and it's darkout, and you don't even realize
it until you like tune back in.
So Alpha is this kindahyper-focused in that moment
with this calm, cool, collectedmind and everything disappears
(47:24):
around you.
So we've, we have that happenspontaneously in other different
ways, but you can also traintowards it and it's a human
thing.
It's not just.
For athletes, right?
One, one of my favorite moviesis for the love of the game with
Kevin Costner, and he's on themound and he is at Na Yankee
Stadium, and they're yelling athim and he's got this phrase
(47:44):
that's clear, the mechanism andeverything goes silent and all
and all he has is that focus ofhim in the catcher.
Nice.
And I've dreamed about that forover 50 years.
How do I get that?
How do I make my brave do that?
And I know I'm capable of it asa coach.
I've done it for years and I'vebeen in that zone as an athlete.
But it's recreating it, it'steaching it, it's so hard for
(48:06):
coaches.
So I, I love the tools you'regiving me, and I love the
approach you take.
It's hard because most people,humans on the planet doesn't
matter at what degree.
It doesn't matter how elite theyare in sports.
It doesn't matter if they're acoach, doesn't matter if they're
80.
We wanna look at them as olderand wiser.
It doesn't mean that they knowthis or understand this.
(48:28):
It's hard for even somebody at ahigh level, even as a coach to
teach it if they don'tunderstand it themselves.
Peak performance state, again,what we wanna call the zone or
the Z or flow.
Is for every human on the planetand it's available to all of us.
What you wanna know is that youare your own worst enemy.
(48:48):
You are a victim of your mindright now.
And not that people some peoplelike to play victim, but it's
not ideal, right?
Like you wanna take a leadershiprole and be a manager or
supervisor of your mind versusfeeling like a victim of it.
So if you let it just keep doingits thing, it's gonna keep
running wild.
And you, but the alpha state,again, it's normal.
(49:12):
You pass through it.
When you go to sleep, when youwake up anytime you're daydreamy
or chilled out or whatever itall humans.
Not only have access to theAlpha State, but they also have
access to this peak performancestate that's euphoric.
That feels amazing that itdoesn't even feel like it's
them.
To me, it's a spiritualconnection even, I could take
(49:33):
that one step further and sayyou, a lot of athletes will say,
it didn't even feel like me.
Like I was just pulling thetrigger.
And to me that's a connectionwith your higher self, your
greater self, your whatever,your spirit, whatever you wanna
call it.
It's almost like an out-of-bodyexperience.
And so you get in your own wayfrom that happening.
(49:55):
That is through the misuse ofyour mind.
Introducing.
Worry, doubt, regret,overthinking over trying all of
those things.
So if you can imagine reeliminating these things, like
pulling them out like they'reweeds and doing that
(50:16):
successfully, then the statethat's remains is a natural
state of peace and enjoyment andproductivity and inspiration,
and insight and momentum and allthese great things.
We have been in the flow and inthe zone.
'cause we've already talked foran hour, which is amazing.
(50:36):
I know, right?
John, you're fantastic.
Are, do you take new clients?
Is it individuals?
Do you work with groups?
Do you work with teams?
I do all of it.
But I have streamlined a lot byhaving online courses and other
pro virtual products.
So like I have an athlete mentalgame online course, I have a
golfer, I have a clay shooting,I have success for humans.
(50:58):
I have, a weight loss andwellness one.
And then I also have astress-free mindful living.
So I have multiple onlinecourses that take people through
this process.
But I have other products too,like mental training on demand
and hypnosis, audios that aredownloads.
There are large packages thatinclude private sessions, but
I've made it so that.
(51:19):
Yeah, I can reach millionsacross the planet and not have
to only be doing privatesessions.
So well done.
That's, I will pick your brainat some point if you're open to
how I can do that as well.
'cause that's my stress is I canonly work with so many
individuals at a time and I wantto do more.
I want to help more.
Where can everybody find youwebsite wise as social media?
(51:41):
So my website is dawn grant.com.
D-A-W-N-G-R-A-N t.com.
Social media, if you justsearch, Dawn Grant mental
training.
I'm on every single social mediaplatform, and I do wanna tell
the listeners that if they go todawn grant.com/free, that I have
a page there where they can tryout some of my products.
(52:04):
So whether it's a seven weektrial not a seven week.
A one week, seven day trial or,different accesses to like maybe
the online course for discountsand such.
A free hypnosis audio, that's adownload.
So it's don grant.com/free andthere's some goodies there.
I will be trying that out thisweek.
Don, thank you so much for doingthis.
(52:24):
You're fantastic.
I'm so glad we had thisconversation.
And you're welcome.
Again, I wish you well with allthe thank you, all the help
you're providing.
Great convo.
Thank you.
That was Don Grant renownedmental trainer for professional
athletes, and what aconversation it was so
eye-opening.
She reminded us that athletesneed to be practicers, not just
gamers.
(52:44):
It's a lesson that really stickswith me.
You can't wait until game day todecide how you'll handle
frustration, pressure, ormomentum swings.
I know I needed that as anathlete and as a coach, and
definitely as a parent.
You've got to practice thoseresponses daily, just like you
practice your mechanics.
That's how you build confidence,resilience, and true peak
(53:04):
performance.
I hope this conversationchallenged you, whether you're
an athlete, a coach, or aparent, to think differently
about the mental side of thegame, because as Don showed us,
it's not mystical orcomplicated, it's practical,
it's learnable, and it makes allthe difference.
Alright, before we wrap up,remember the new baseball
volleyball, basketball andsoftball recruits journals are
(53:25):
available now and thesignificant recruiting launchpad
classes are open as well.
You can find themall@coachmattrogers.com.
Hey, thanks for listening, anduntil next time, stay focused,
stay humble, and stay in thefight.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.