September 15, 2025 ⢠29 mins
đ Heather Pavlik on Recruiting, Character, and Building Champions đŻ
What makes a recruit stand out beyond stats and highlight reels? Juniata College Head Womenâs Volleyball Coach Heather Pavlikâfresh off leading her team to three straight NCAA Division III National Championships and earning 2024 AVCA National Coach of the Year honorsâshares her perspective on what truly matters in the recruiting process.
From evaluating athletes for more than just talent, to guiding parents on how to best support their daughters, Heather blends toughness with compassion in a way that helps young women grow into champions on and off the court.
⨠If youâre a student-athlete, parent, or coach, this episode is packed with lessons on what it takes to get recruited the right way.
đ For more episodes, my book Significant Recruiting: The Playbook for Prospective College Athletes, the Recruitâs Journal series (including the new Volleyball edition), online classes, and weekly blogsâvisit CoachMattRogers.com
.
Learn more and connect with Matt Rogers here: https://linktr.ee/coachmattrogers
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I don't need to see yourhighlights.
(00:02):
Highlights are fine.
They're good.
They have their place.
But send me some unedited videobecause I wanna see when you
make errors, what do those looklike?
Yeah.
And how do you respond?
That's really important.
A full set.
Yeah, A full set.
Great.
Maybe not like a five settergame, but maybe a full set
though with some live play isreally helpful.
(00:24):
And you're making 10, 12 touchesin a set.
If you're a setter, there's 30,there's a bunch.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it helps because youreally do want to see what
happens when they make an error.
Why did they make the error, butalso how they respond to it.
(00:48):
Welcome back to the SignificantRecruiting Podcast.
I'm your host, Matt Rogers.
On the coaching episode, wetalked about Tata's three
straight NCAA championships andhow Heather Pavlik has built one
of the most remarkable dynastiesin college volleyball.
Today we shift the focus torecruiting.
Coach Pavlik has seen it all.
All Americans, national playersof the year, and young athletes
(01:09):
who have come to Juta and growninto champions.
In this episode, she shares whatshe really looks for in a
recruit and what parents need tounderstand and why.
Division three opportunitieslike Jutta can be life changing.
And if you're on this recruitingjourney, don't forget to check
out my book, significantRecruiting, the Playbook for
Prospective College Athletes andits companion book, the
(01:33):
Volleyball recruitsjournal@coachmattrogers.com.
Alright, let's get into it.
Here's part two of myconversation with Jutta head,
women's volleyball coach HeatherPavlik.
Coach Pavlik I want to dive intorecruiting with you.
I asked you about how you handlepractice planning.
(01:53):
Now I wanna talk about recruitplanning.
What does that look like?
'cause you told me 11 o'clockyou bring your staff in to talk
practice planning.
What does that recruit planninglook like?
That's a good question.
I think it's more freeform.
I don't think it's as formal.
I think Casey and I actuallyhave an office where we share a
door between us.
(02:13):
So we basically have an openoffice for the two of us, and
Erin has a table in my office,so we're all here all the time
together.
And so I think it's a littlemore organic.
When it comes up, we split it upby position.
Casey will handle maybe anyonewho passes the ball.
The outside hitters, the RAs,the dss.
I handle recruiting, setters,opposites, middles, and so we
(02:34):
just compare notes every singleday.
Hey, I talked to last night.
Here's how it went.
Here's our depth chart.
Here's where we're at.
Or, Hey, somebody decided to goelsewhere.
How does that change what thislooks like now?
Based on what we need.
So it, it's pretty organic andhappens daily.
Do you have an actual board?
Do you have a recruiting boardor do you have it on?
Yeah, I do, I like visualthings, so I make a recruiting
(02:55):
board on my computer so that Ican see and I can move people
and do that kind of stuff.
I think Casey does it his ownway and I am perfectly fine with
however he wants to do that.
I think what, whatever worksbest for him is what I want him
to do.
Erin's great about jumping inand if she's seen someone at a
tournament,'cause she coachedclub, so she would see people.
(03:15):
But it's very organic.
We talk about it daily and Ithink we talk about what we
really need versus some numbersand the school will talk to us a
little bit about numbers they'dlike to see from us too.
I think in any division threedepartment it, you are an
extension of the enrollment.
And the enrollment building andthe enrollment staff.
And we talk a little bit aboutthat, but I think overall we are
(03:37):
very much all on the same pageall the time, which is great.
That's awesome.
And we just don't recruit peopleunless we can see them at some
point.
Yeah.
I feel like it's live.
It's tough to do.
Yeah.
It's very tough to do fromvideo, so see them live.
Yeah.
But let's get into video justbecause I know you're getting
bombarded with it.
Yeah.
How often are Casey or Aaroncoming to you and saying, Hey,
watch this film.
(03:58):
I want you to see a kid everyday.
Every day.
We're trading films back andforth.
Yeah.
I'll get some and I'll, if it'san outside hitter, I'll say,
Hey, Casey, take a look at her.
I like her, but what do youthink?
Or he sees, he gets a middle, hegets an email from a middle,
he'll shoot it my way so I cantake a look at it.
But I think it's daily, many ofthem daily.
I was just talking to the coachat Virginia Wesleyan softball,
(04:19):
and while we were having ourconversation, I think he got 28
recruit meals, just 28 recruitemails.
Oh, I won't be surprised if Ihave that many when I get off of
this zoom.
How are you dealing with that?
How are you disseminating allthat information?
I think we try to respond to asmany of them as we can.
Because they need to makedecisions too.
And if it's somebody who isn't agreat fit, fit for us, I think
(04:40):
we try to say, Hey, we might notbe the right fit right now based
on who we have in this position.
But if you want some thoughts onwhat the video look like and who
you might wanna talk with, letus know.
Yeah.
I think because you wanna helpthem get to the right places.
I'm a big believer that's a hugerole of, as us as college
coaches,'cause we're, we are themaster coach and master teacher
(05:02):
of that community, whateverwe're in and there's so many
coaches, there's so manyfamilies that are just looking
'cause they have no idea how toevaluate.
How to evaluate themselves.
So they rely so heavily on us tojust give them a sense, are they
on the right page?
Are they moving in the rightdirection?
Should they be going a differentdirection?
And it's so hard now.
(05:24):
20 years ago, I would get a VHStape in the mail three or four
times a week and then it becameCDs.
Now it's so easy to send anemail and everybody's been
taught, this is how you do it.
I don't know how you do itanymore.
I don't know how.
Is there something, it's tough.
Is there something you're seeingin the subject line that may go,
(05:46):
I'm gonna take a look at thatone.
Oh, not necessarily in thesubject line'cause you get a lot
of different 6 4, 4 0.0.
That helps.
Even that you need a lot moreinformation there because also
six four sometimes is means sixone.
That's right.
And sometimes six foot is five10.
So you gotta do your homeworkthere too.
But I think that somebody whomaybe within the first line of
(06:10):
an email knows a little bitabout why they wanna look at
you.
Yeah.
Okay.
Oh, I wanna be, I say you have agreat environmental science
program.
That's what I wanna study.
And I've played for this cluband I talked to someone at my
club and they said, you reallyshould talk to Juliana.
Yeah.
Now I'm a, now I'm okay.
This speaks my interest.
Because there's reasons whythey're sending an, it's just
(06:31):
not, they're not just bombing200 different programs, but even
those who are bombing 200different programs with emails,
if they're not right for you,it's easy to say, Hey, you
might, we might not be the rightfit for you.
But let me know what kind ofschool you're looking for and
I'll try to maybe point you inthe right direction because we
know so many coaches.
Yeah.
And you wanna get them to thebest person you possibly can.
(06:53):
Absolutely.
Do you like having a link thatyou can click where you can see
video, you can see schedule, youcan see classes, you can see
grades?
Yes.
Yep.
Parents information.
Very helpful because you canfigure out very quickly then, is
this person definitely someonewe're interested in?
Is this someone who would notfit at all or is this someone in
the middle that maybe we couldsee live sometime and decide?
(07:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think all those links are veryhelpful.
I have a very rocky road historywith recruiting services.
So I can go from to, gosh, it'sso necessary and what I try and
teach families is.
You don't necessarily have topay for a recruiting service,
but to have something onlinethat a coach can go, where was
that email?
(07:35):
They don't have to do that.
They can go, oh, I already knowyour name.
I can go to that site and justthrow in your name and I can see
what your new film is.
I don't have to worry about yousending me a new email every
time you have a new film.
Is that helpful for you?
Yeah, I think it is, and I thinkI, I say the same thing to
people when I talk to parents orclub directors or anybody about
recruiting services.
(07:57):
Sure you can use it if it makesyour life easier and the money's
not a problem for you.
But there's some families whocan't do that.
That's right.
And I just say, listen, send us,send the people you're
interested in email.
Tell them what you wanna study,attach some video, and please
attach some unedited video.
Yes.
I don't need to see yourhighlights.
Highlights are fine.
They're good.
They have their place.
(08:18):
But send me some unedited videobecause I wanna see when you
make errors, what do those looklike?
Yeah.
And how do you respond?
That's really important.
A full set.
Yeah, A full set.
Great.
Maybe not like a five settergame, but maybe a full set
though with some live play isreally helpful.
And you're making 10, 12 touchesin a set.
(08:39):
If you're a setter, there's 30,there's a bunch.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it helps because youreally do want to see what
happens when they make an error.
Why did they make the error, butalso how they respond to it.
Yeah.
I've been having thisconversation a lot'cause I got
in this argument a club prepschool coach.
I don't usually get on internetand in social media and get
(09:02):
upset about anything.
It's a rule that I don't dothat.
But this guy really upset meabout D three coaches making
offers.
He was upset that one of a Dthree coach made one of his kids
an offer.
He goes, how can they call it anoffer when there's no
scholarship attached?
What does sc, what does an offermean to you?
An offer just means you'reoffering a ro, you're offering a
(09:22):
roster spot.
But that's it.
But there's great value to be amember.
I'm being asked by junior outvolleyball Agreed.
Be a part of their program.
Agreed.
And I get to get a greateducation, and I get to be a
part of a team where maybe 93%of the high school kids in the
country will never get to be apart of that college team.
Yep.
An offer from a D three coach tome is huge.
(09:44):
Yeah.
And I think in this day and age,you have to use that word a
little bit, right?
Yeah.
You have to use that wordbecause it's what they're, it's,
they're what they're used to.
It's what they're looking for.
So I try to make sure beforesomeone leaves here on a visit,
if it's someone we really want,Hey, I just want you to know I'm
making, this offer to you thatif you wanna come here, you've
(10:06):
got a roster spot, period.
And if we're not sure, then youdon't make that right.
You wanna make sure they knowthat you want them and there's a
place for them.
That's right.
Yeah.
I, and that's all it needs tobe, and whether you use the word
offer or not, but let them knowyou want them.
And that Yes.
If you decide to come here,there's a roster spot for you.
(10:26):
Yeah.
Just, it's just what you said.
We really want you here, butyou've gotta want to be.
But we're not telling everybodyelse we want them to be here.
We're telling you that we'd likeyou to be a part of it, but this
has gotta be the right fit foryou.
You've gotta feel that this isthe place where you can grow and
we can make the most of you.
Absolutely.
It's just so important that kidshear that.
And if you're not getting anoffer, this is this.
(10:46):
Yeah.
Hey, we're not gonna offer you,yeah.
We're.
We've got four outsides, we gotthree setters.
We're good.
I just don't have another spotfor you.
Or maybe a great player that youreally want leaves here and
thinks you feel ambivalent aboutthem in some way.
Yeah.
You don't want that.
You want them to know exactlyhow you feel about them.
Yeah, exactly.
Let's talk a little bit aboutwhat you, what gets you excited
(11:09):
when you see a recruit?
Because I, I loved Olivia theway Oli, we talked about this in
the first episode how youapproached Olivia when you were
recruiting her.
And I was like that because forme, when I realized I wanted a
kid.
It's when I was already thinkingabout how I was gonna coach
them, how I was gonna, when Icouldn't stop thinking about how
(11:30):
I could make them better I knewI was locked in.
Are, is there something similarfor you when you watch a kid
play that triggers you?
Yeah, I think the biggest thingthat I go, oh yeah, I want this
person, is that competitivepiece, right?
Yeah, because we wanna win here.
We wanna win, we wanna competefor national championships, we
wanna be spoken about in thattop grouping of teams in the
(11:50):
country all the time.
Position ourself that way.
And I think the number one thingyou have to be as competitive.
Yeah.
You have to be a greatcompetitor.
And so when I watch a player,yeah, you can see their skills
easily.
That's the easy part.
I think the first thing thatdraws me in is the
competitiveness.
And maybe that's how theyrespond after an error.
That's what I'm saying.
Show us more.
(12:11):
I think that is reallyimportant.
'cause great competitors wantthe ball right back.
They want the ball right back.
They wanna touch it again.
They're not afraid of makinganother error.
They're just very aggressive andgo after it.
And I love seeing that.
I think that draws me inimmediately.
I think somebody who is reallygood with their teammates, and
(12:32):
when I say that, I don't meanjust, oh yeah, you're great.
Who will walk over to a teammatewho's struggling, put an arm on
her back, or, and maybe give herkick in the rear when she needs
it?
That's right, because boththings are valuable.
Who understands how to deal withother people and has a really
good emotional intelligenceabout the people around them.
Yeah.
You just can't have enough kidsthat have it in'em, that by the
(12:54):
time their sophomores arejuniors, they're gonna stop a
practice.
This isn't good enough.
It doesn't have to be you.
They've got it in them to say,we're better than this.
Say that out loud or you arebetter than this, or I gotta be
better than this.
And it's so cool when it's notthe same person all the time.
You bet.
We've had that happen a numberof times over the past couple
weeks and it was differentpeople in the group and I
(13:16):
thought, okay, this is comingtogether nicely.
This is good.
This is really good.
It's lovely.
I keep, I'm gonna keep bringingback Olivia here'cause we had
such a good conversation aboutthis.
I was really impressed with, wetalked about visits when kids
come to visit you guys and youplay.
And she just said, she goes, I'mprobably wasn't that person,
that coach wanted me to takesomebody on a tour or take them
(13:36):
to the room.
But we had four or five girlsthat were really great at that.
Self-awareness.
Self-awareness.
Self-awareness is a big deal.
She's I just can't get enough ofthis kid.
Where are you with that?
When we're, when you have a kidcome in, typically you want them
to play with the girls in theoff season, I would imagine.
We don't.
We don't.
Don't.
Okay.
You've seen Now we get them,stay with them.
(13:57):
You've seen enough.
Now it's, let's see how theyreact and how they, and the only
time they'd be able to do thatanyway when they're playing on
their own.
'cause when we're in ourtraining block, they can't, it's
illegal.
Yeah.
But.
I think the biggest thing is,and I love what Olivia said
there, because she's a hundredpercent right.
She's pretty hardcore and.
I don't know that she would'vewanted to keep people.
(14:18):
And I think that's the biggestthing, first and foremost is if
we're gonna ask you to keep arecruit, you have to be somebody
who wants to keep a recruit.
That's right.
If you're someone who doesn'twanna be around other people
very much and don't like to bearound people you don't know,
not a good candidate for that.
So yeah, I think you figure outpretty quickly who the people on
your team are who love doingthat and enjoy it.
(14:39):
'cause if they enjoy it, therecruits can have a better time
anyway.
You don't have to use names oranything, but do you have
certain players that you counton to give you their opinion of
that visit and what they thoughtof that girl?
Yes.
And you're right about that.
It's not everybody, but it,there are a couple people Yeah.
We can go to and say, okay, howdid that go?
(14:59):
What did you think?
Yeah.
And most of the time, I must saymost of the time it goes very
well.
And they're like she was reallynice or she was a little quiet.
But then when it was a smallergroup and it wasn't 18 people in
her face, she was actuallyreally good one-on-one or in a
small group.
Because they're gonna learnthings that we're not going to
that, that.
Recruits are gonna share thingswith them.
(15:20):
Yeah.
Are going to do things with themthat they're probably not gonna
share with us.
And so I think the players areinvaluable.
And then every once in a whileyou get one.
Not often, where the playerscome in and say, no, absolutely
not.
Yeah.
And here's why.
And that's what I wanna know.
Why.
Yeah.
What was it that didn't sitright with you?
(15:40):
And that's where you have to becareful about who you're talking
with, because.
Teams need differentpersonalities.
They need different kinds ofpeople to be diverse and
successful.
And and we get players from allover the country with all kinds
of different backgrounds,different places.
But why did it not go well?
And there's a few things thatthey'll say where you go, okay,
(16:01):
I agree with you.
We're gonna, we're gonna backoff that one.
I'll let her know.
Yeah.
I remember having a, I had asenior captain that would come
in and just say, coach, I knowyou brought this kid in.
I know you really like him, but.
Here's a couple things I sawthat I'm really worried about
and he was never gonna play withthis kid.
Like he was gonna be long gone.
But he would say, I just, Idon't think he fits our team and
I don't think he fits ourculture.
There's some things that he saidthat I just turned me off.
(16:23):
And I love that.
I just love hearing that becausethere, how you gonna know that
when you've seen a kid playtwice in a game and you like
their attitude and you like, butyou don't know who they are when
they step off the court?
We had a captain the last.
Three years.
Abby Les she was a captain orsophomore, junior and senior.
So voters as a captain, as asophomore.
So I think that says somethingright away.
(16:44):
That a time.
Yeah.
Very mature.
And I talked a little earlierabout that emotional
intelligence.
I think that was her superpower.
Amazing with people.
She understood people'smotivations.
She understood the differenceswith people.
So she's someone we could alwaysgo to, whether it was something
inside the team or whether itwas with a recruit who came,
Hey, how did that go and how wasshe?
And I always very much trustedthe answers that got there
(17:06):
because Abby was always onpoint.
So nice to have.
And it goes back to recruiting.
You wanna recruit those kids,you wanna recruit those high EQ
kids and she always had theteam's best interest.
Yeah.
Very selfless human being.
Yeah.
And she would be thinking aboutthe future and she cared about
whether, she might never playwith this person, but she cared
about whether the program wasgetting a good person.
(17:28):
Yeah.
You've been at the point where.
You probably have on an averageyear.
Tell me if I'm wrong.
I would say five or six kidsthat could probably play D two
or higher.
Absolutely.
Without it.
Without it, I think most of ourroster.
Yeah, most of our, okay.
Where are you at with recruitingkids that want that D one, want
(17:51):
that D two That's important tothem, you can probably give them
more outside of that dollaramount that they're hunting for
that label that they're huntingfor.
How do you handle that?
Yeah.
I think that's the norm for us,actually.
That's where we live in therecruiting sphere, so I think we
do that on a daily basis, and Ithink the biggest thing is to
(18:12):
get them to see us play somehow.
Whether they come in to watch amatch or whether they look up an
old video somewhere online.
We're playing at a really highlevel, and you probably wanna
take a look at this.
But I think the other piece ofthat is we gotta find the right
people.
And so if somebody isn'tinterested in a smaller school
(18:33):
and a smaller town that hasgreat volleyball then they're
not the right fit for us.
But I think there's lots whojust aren't, don't understand
what we are.
We're a strange animal tounderstand.
Most grade volleyball, even indivision three, does not live in
tiny towns in schools that are1300 students.
So we tend to be unique and wejust try to talk with them about
(18:53):
that piece of it.
Come and see what you think.
You might be surprised and wecan compete with the places
you're talking to.
Yeah.
They're without a doubt.
We can compete with peopleyou're talking to in most cases.
And you really, this would be adifferent animal.
This is a place where you'regonna get a lot of balance.
Your academics are gonna comefirst and you can let the
(19:15):
academics come first and stillwin national championships and
play at a really high level.
Because here the two thingsactually work really well
together.
The way Junior is set up withour academics actually helps
that because we're done withclass at four every day, we,
they can be done with theiracademic day shift gears come
here.
So that ability to have somebalance to be part of something
(19:36):
more than just be a student.
Be an athlete, but be able to bepart of a club or two, do some
of those kind of things.
And there, there are morestudent athlete prospects who
want that than people think.
Yeah.
When they start thinking abouttheir life, what is this going
to look like in college?
I think a lot of them don't wantit to be volleyball.
(19:56):
Volleyball first.
Volleyball first, all the time.
Yeah.
They wanna get an education.
They wanna get a greateducation.
They wanna experience college alittle bit.
And so I think we tend to getpeople who are really great
players and could take ascholarship to many places, but
I think they want a little morebalance than that.
Yeah.
And they still wanna play on agreat volleyball team.
Yeah.
(20:17):
I was gonna ask you this firstsegment, and I forgot to ask it,
so I'm gonna bring it up now.
Wash U has a, I don't know whatthey have now.
$12 billion endowment.
They do.
John Johns Hopkins has, is worldrenowned for their medical
school.
Everybody across the countryknows Johns Hopkins'cause
they've got such a great medicalprogram.
Hope is hosted, I don't know howmany years of national
(20:38):
championships, of differentsports and has one of the best
Yep.
Gyms in the country.
MIT is world renowned for theirscience and math.
You're a small town, D threeprivate college.
How in the heck have you doneit?
How.
You know what we tell people,you know what we're known for?
Volleyball?
Yeah.
(20:59):
Volleyball.
Yeah.
And they're like, oh, wait aminute.
I'm like, everybody in this towncares about volleyball.
Yeah.
We're gonna get top billing oneverything.
Yeah.
This gym is gonna be full.
People are gonna know you whenyou stop in at the local sheets.
You're gonna have people saying,Hey, great game last night.
You have no idea who they are.
That's the allure.
Yeah.
And I think once they get reeledin with the volleyball, they
(21:22):
start doing a little homework onthe school and they start
realizing, oh, it's a reallygood school.
Yeah.
A really good academic withthat, really great academic
programs, but undoubtedly it'sthe volleyball.
And Larry worked his tail off.
Early in the years of thisprogram's existence and made
them part of a nationalconversation that in some ways
(21:43):
they had no business being apart of.
Yeah.
I think we were like a badge ofhonor.
We used to go to Wash U everyyear, back when Terry Clemens
was at Wash u Larry was headcoach here.
I was his associate head coach.
And we would drive to St.
Louis in a mini bus and we wouldstop in Terre Haute, Indiana.
Yeah.
And then.
On the first leg, and then wewould go the rest of the way the
(22:05):
next day.
We would play Friday night,usually against Wash U in front
of a packed crowd.
And then we would play two onSaturday and then we would get
back in our little mini bus andwe would drive home through the
night.
And we wore like a badge ofwater.
Like we will do things otherpeople will not do.
We were much hard, much morehardcore.
Yeah.
And I think we've owned that foryears.
(22:26):
We're like the little enginethat could, yeah.
I, it drives and that's how wefunction best.
It drives me crazy when coachesplan a Susie Cake's pre-season
schedule.
It just drives me crazy.
I wanted my players, I wanted myplayers to play against the best
talent we could find.
'cause when it got to conferenceit's still to this day, if you
wanna make nationals, you betterwin your league.
(22:48):
'cause there's no guarantees.
Oh no.
And especially with thingschanging yeah, it, you gotta win
your conference for sure, butyou gotta be ready for those
guys.
I always say to Mike, we go tothese big, beautiful gyms,
right?
Yeah.
And ours is a good gym, right?
Yeah.
It's just a good little gym.
But we go to these big,beautiful gyms and I'll just say
to our players, you know whatthe best thing about this gym
as?
And they're like, what?
I'm like, when it's silent whilewe're playing, and they're like,
(23:11):
oh yeah, coach.
Two questions to finish.
Piece of advice for a studentathlete that wants to play in
college and wants to getrecruited on how to do it.
And be proactive.
Be proactive.
Do your homework.
Look at the places that havewhat you wanna study, because in
the end, you gotta get a greateducation.
(23:32):
So look for the places that havewhat you wanna study, and then
be proactive.
Reach out to the coaches becauseyou would be surprised like.
Names.
We start recognizing names.
We see them.
Oh, may.
Yeah, next time we go out we'vegotta make sure we check this
kid out.
She's written to us threedifferent times now.
She's been updating us, Atan.
Let's see what she looks like.
Her video looks good.
Let's see her live.
So I just think being proactive,but do your homework.
(23:54):
I don't think you wanna blitz300 places when a hundred of
them don't even have theacademic industry you're looking
for.
That's right.
That's right.
Or you're gonna be miserable inthe environment.
You want four seasons, you'renot gonna be happy in Arizona.
Yes.
You have to be real withyourself about what it is that
you're looking for in those fouryears.
How you learn, man you, youdon't want a 300 class person
(24:16):
classroom when you learn betterone-on-one with a professor,
with 14 kids in a student.
Or, we always say to peoplehere, if you're looking for
nightlife, Huntington is notyour place.
If you love the outdoors, we'refantastic.
That's but nightlife, there isnone.
Yeah.
I would've not known that wantedthat at 17, but boy, I will love
that right now.
(24:36):
I would love that.
We always say the biggestchallenge is getting them here,
but once they get here, theyfocus on the right things
because there's not, there's notall the distractions.
That's right.
We don't have a, we don't have amajor city to attract them, but
we also don't have a major cityto distract them.
That's right.
There, there's nowhere to go onThursday, Friday, Saturday
(24:56):
night, but on campus, hang outwith your friends on campus and
they meet tons of people andthey have a good time.
And those kids have the bettermemories than the kids that live
close to Chicago and Detroit andMiami.
And because they, yeah, there'sa closeness and a community that
builds there.
And this place, I know a lot ofpeople community's kind of a
buzzword, right?
Oh, we have a great community.
What does that mean?
(25:17):
Here it means that people willlook you right in the eye and
say hello to you.
If they have never seen youbefore, they don't care.
That's how I grew up.
That's how I grew up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I get my, my, my kids tease meall the time.
I just, I wave at everybody andsay hi to everybody.
And I did parking duty with mykids' school today and I love
giving every kid high five of,they get out of the car and, it
brightens their day.
(25:38):
So I love that attitude.
Same question, but for parents,what's your advice to parents
going through their recruitingprocess?
What do you think they need toknow?
Help your children be proactiveon their own.
Don't do it for them.
Letters from parents, thingsfrom parents, I don't think we
paid much attention to.
(25:58):
Yeah.
Because in the end, if therewere, if a coach is recruiting
them, you're not going to bethere during those four years.
So encourage your studentathletes to be the proactive
people.
Reaching out, having theconversation, yes.
On the first phone call when youcall.
Sure.
You can be on, you probably havelots of questions of that coach
too.
That's perfectly fine.
Maybe don't be on everyconversation, not every call.
(26:21):
I think there is a piece of astudent athlete and a coach
connecting on a phone call thatstudent athlete has to be okay
communicating with the coach,not the parents.
So I think it is reallyimportant to let them have a
little bit of ownership for it,take some ownership and do some
things on their own through theprocess.
But certainly not all of it.
But I think once in a while letthem do their own thing there.
(26:43):
Yeah.
Par parents still need to beparents through this process,
but they Sure.
You're the one that's gonna becoaching them.
They need to learn how to havethat conversation with you.
And at a division three, likeGiata, the parents absolutely
are part of the equation becausethere's a bill to be paid.
You're talking about ascholarship.
And so they have to be part ofthe conversation, but there's
also a relationship that needsto develop between the student
(27:06):
athlete and the coach.
Where the parents aren't part ofthat, because that's what the
four years is gonna look like.
You're gonna see the parentsmaybe every other weekend.
Yeah.
I want to thank Dr.
Jim and Olivia for guilttripping you to come on.
I really appreciate it.
No problem.
I have, I've been trying to getyou on for months, so I, it
means the world to me that youdid this and I'm such a big fan.
(27:29):
I love watching your team's fly.
I just, I love watching.
Oh, thank you thank you.
I was division three coach for12 years and I know how hard it
is to win a game, let alone.
Conference championship, get tothe nationals to do it three
times.
So keep doing what you're doing,keep doing it with your heart
and you're doing it the rightway'cause you're doing it the
way you want to do it.
(27:49):
And man, it's awesome.
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
That was Jutta head volleyballcoach and three straight
national championship coachHeather Pavlik.
Hearing her perspective onrecruiting is really fantastic.
She's not just a evaluatingskills or stats.
She's looking for characteraccountability and the
(28:09):
willingness to grow, and that'swhy she wants to see more than
just your highlight film.
It's the same toughness andcompassion she leads with every
day in her program, and it's whyjunior out volleyball has become
a national powerhouse.
If you found this conversationvaluable, make sure to
subscribe, favorite, and sharethe podcast.
That support keeps us going.
(28:31):
And helps us to continue to growthis community of athletes,
parents, and coaches who want toapproach recruiting with
purpose.
And don't forget, you can findmy book Significant Recruiting
the Playbook for prospectivecollege athletes and the
companion book, the VolleyballRecruits
journal@coachmattrogers.com.
Until next time, stay focused.
(28:53):
Stay ready, and staysignificant.
I don't need to see yourhighlights.
(00:02):
Highlights are fine.
They're good.
They have their place.
But send me some unedited videobecause I wanna see when you
make errors, what do those looklike?
Yeah.
And how do you respond?
That's really important.
A full set.
Yeah, A full set.
Great.
Maybe not like a five settergame, but maybe a full set
though with some live play isreally helpful.
(00:24):
And you're making 10, 12 touchesin a set.
If you're a setter, there's 30,there's a bunch.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it helps because youreally do want to see what
happens when they make an error.
Why did they make the error, butalso how they respond to it.
(00:48):
Welcome back to the SignificantRecruiting Podcast.
I'm your host, Matt Rogers.
On the coaching episode, wetalked about Tata's three
straight NCAA championships andhow Heather Pavlik has built one
of the most remarkable dynastiesin college volleyball.
Today we shift the focus torecruiting.
Coach Pavlik has seen it all.
All Americans, national playersof the year, and young athletes
(01:09):
who have come to Juta and growninto champions.
In this episode, she shares whatshe really looks for in a
recruit and what parents need tounderstand and why.
Division three opportunitieslike Jutta can be life changing.
And if you're on this recruitingjourney, don't forget to check
out my book, significantRecruiting, the Playbook for
Prospective College Athletes andits companion book, the
(01:33):
Volleyball recruitsjournal@coachmattrogers.com.
Alright, let's get into it.
Here's part two of myconversation with Jutta head,
women's volleyball coach HeatherPavlik.
Coach Pavlik I want to dive intorecruiting with you.
I asked you about how you handlepractice planning.
(01:53):
Now I wanna talk about recruitplanning.
What does that look like?
'cause you told me 11 o'clockyou bring your staff in to talk
practice planning.
What does that recruit planninglook like?
That's a good question.
I think it's more freeform.
I don't think it's as formal.
I think Casey and I actuallyhave an office where we share a
door between us.
(02:13):
So we basically have an openoffice for the two of us, and
Erin has a table in my office,so we're all here all the time
together.
And so I think it's a littlemore organic.
When it comes up, we split it upby position.
Casey will handle maybe anyonewho passes the ball.
The outside hitters, the RAs,the dss.
I handle recruiting, setters,opposites, middles, and so we
(02:34):
just compare notes every singleday.
Hey, I talked to last night.
Here's how it went.
Here's our depth chart.
Here's where we're at.
Or, Hey, somebody decided to goelsewhere.
How does that change what thislooks like now?
Based on what we need.
So it, it's pretty organic andhappens daily.
Do you have an actual board?
Do you have a recruiting boardor do you have it on?
Yeah, I do, I like visualthings, so I make a recruiting
(02:55):
board on my computer so that Ican see and I can move people
and do that kind of stuff.
I think Casey does it his ownway and I am perfectly fine with
however he wants to do that.
I think what, whatever worksbest for him is what I want him
to do.
Erin's great about jumping inand if she's seen someone at a
tournament,'cause she coachedclub, so she would see people.
(03:15):
But it's very organic.
We talk about it daily and Ithink we talk about what we
really need versus some numbersand the school will talk to us a
little bit about numbers they'dlike to see from us too.
I think in any division threedepartment it, you are an
extension of the enrollment.
And the enrollment building andthe enrollment staff.
And we talk a little bit aboutthat, but I think overall we are
(03:37):
very much all on the same pageall the time, which is great.
That's awesome.
And we just don't recruit peopleunless we can see them at some
point.
Yeah.
I feel like it's live.
It's tough to do.
Yeah.
It's very tough to do fromvideo, so see them live.
Yeah.
But let's get into video justbecause I know you're getting
bombarded with it.
Yeah.
How often are Casey or Aaroncoming to you and saying, Hey,
watch this film.
(03:58):
I want you to see a kid everyday.
Every day.
We're trading films back andforth.
Yeah.
I'll get some and I'll, if it'san outside hitter, I'll say,
Hey, Casey, take a look at her.
I like her, but what do youthink?
Or he sees, he gets a middle, hegets an email from a middle,
he'll shoot it my way so I cantake a look at it.
But I think it's daily, many ofthem daily.
I was just talking to the coachat Virginia Wesleyan softball,
(04:19):
and while we were having ourconversation, I think he got 28
recruit meals, just 28 recruitemails.
Oh, I won't be surprised if Ihave that many when I get off of
this zoom.
How are you dealing with that?
How are you disseminating allthat information?
I think we try to respond to asmany of them as we can.
Because they need to makedecisions too.
And if it's somebody who isn't agreat fit, fit for us, I think
(04:40):
we try to say, Hey, we might notbe the right fit right now based
on who we have in this position.
But if you want some thoughts onwhat the video look like and who
you might wanna talk with, letus know.
Yeah.
I think because you wanna helpthem get to the right places.
I'm a big believer that's a hugerole of, as us as college
coaches,'cause we're, we are themaster coach and master teacher
(05:02):
of that community, whateverwe're in and there's so many
coaches, there's so manyfamilies that are just looking
'cause they have no idea how toevaluate.
How to evaluate themselves.
So they rely so heavily on us tojust give them a sense, are they
on the right page?
Are they moving in the rightdirection?
Should they be going a differentdirection?
And it's so hard now.
(05:24):
20 years ago, I would get a VHStape in the mail three or four
times a week and then it becameCDs.
Now it's so easy to send anemail and everybody's been
taught, this is how you do it.
I don't know how you do itanymore.
I don't know how.
Is there something, it's tough.
Is there something you're seeingin the subject line that may go,
(05:46):
I'm gonna take a look at thatone.
Oh, not necessarily in thesubject line'cause you get a lot
of different 6 4, 4 0.0.
That helps.
Even that you need a lot moreinformation there because also
six four sometimes is means sixone.
That's right.
And sometimes six foot is five10.
So you gotta do your homeworkthere too.
But I think that somebody whomaybe within the first line of
(06:10):
an email knows a little bitabout why they wanna look at
you.
Yeah.
Okay.
Oh, I wanna be, I say you have agreat environmental science
program.
That's what I wanna study.
And I've played for this cluband I talked to someone at my
club and they said, you reallyshould talk to Juliana.
Yeah.
Now I'm a, now I'm okay.
This speaks my interest.
Because there's reasons whythey're sending an, it's just
(06:31):
not, they're not just bombing200 different programs, but even
those who are bombing 200different programs with emails,
if they're not right for you,it's easy to say, Hey, you
might, we might not be the rightfit for you.
But let me know what kind ofschool you're looking for and
I'll try to maybe point you inthe right direction because we
know so many coaches.
Yeah.
And you wanna get them to thebest person you possibly can.
(06:53):
Absolutely.
Do you like having a link thatyou can click where you can see
video, you can see schedule, youcan see classes, you can see
grades?
Yes.
Yep.
Parents information.
Very helpful because you canfigure out very quickly then, is
this person definitely someonewe're interested in?
Is this someone who would notfit at all or is this someone in
the middle that maybe we couldsee live sometime and decide?
(07:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think all those links are veryhelpful.
I have a very rocky road historywith recruiting services.
So I can go from to, gosh, it'sso necessary and what I try and
teach families is.
You don't necessarily have topay for a recruiting service,
but to have something onlinethat a coach can go, where was
that email?
(07:35):
They don't have to do that.
They can go, oh, I already knowyour name.
I can go to that site and justthrow in your name and I can see
what your new film is.
I don't have to worry about yousending me a new email every
time you have a new film.
Is that helpful for you?
Yeah, I think it is, and I thinkI, I say the same thing to
people when I talk to parents orclub directors or anybody about
recruiting services.
(07:57):
Sure you can use it if it makesyour life easier and the money's
not a problem for you.
But there's some families whocan't do that.
That's right.
And I just say, listen, send us,send the people you're
interested in email.
Tell them what you wanna study,attach some video, and please
attach some unedited video.
Yes.
I don't need to see yourhighlights.
Highlights are fine.
They're good.
They have their place.
(08:18):
But send me some unedited videobecause I wanna see when you
make errors, what do those looklike?
Yeah.
And how do you respond?
That's really important.
A full set.
Yeah, A full set.
Great.
Maybe not like a five settergame, but maybe a full set
though with some live play isreally helpful.
And you're making 10, 12 touchesin a set.
(08:39):
If you're a setter, there's 30,there's a bunch.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it helps because youreally do want to see what
happens when they make an error.
Why did they make the error, butalso how they respond to it.
Yeah.
I've been having thisconversation a lot'cause I got
in this argument a club prepschool coach.
I don't usually get on internetand in social media and get
(09:02):
upset about anything.
It's a rule that I don't dothat.
But this guy really upset meabout D three coaches making
offers.
He was upset that one of a Dthree coach made one of his kids
an offer.
He goes, how can they call it anoffer when there's no
scholarship attached?
What does sc, what does an offermean to you?
An offer just means you'reoffering a ro, you're offering a
(09:22):
roster spot.
But that's it.
But there's great value to be amember.
I'm being asked by junior outvolleyball Agreed.
Be a part of their program.
Agreed.
And I get to get a greateducation, and I get to be a
part of a team where maybe 93%of the high school kids in the
country will never get to be apart of that college team.
Yep.
An offer from a D three coach tome is huge.
(09:44):
Yeah.
And I think in this day and age,you have to use that word a
little bit, right?
Yeah.
You have to use that wordbecause it's what they're, it's,
they're what they're used to.
It's what they're looking for.
So I try to make sure beforesomeone leaves here on a visit,
if it's someone we really want,Hey, I just want you to know I'm
making, this offer to you thatif you wanna come here, you've
(10:06):
got a roster spot, period.
And if we're not sure, then youdon't make that right.
You wanna make sure they knowthat you want them and there's a
place for them.
That's right.
Yeah.
I, and that's all it needs tobe, and whether you use the word
offer or not, but let them knowyou want them.
And that Yes.
If you decide to come here,there's a roster spot for you.
(10:26):
Yeah.
Just, it's just what you said.
We really want you here, butyou've gotta want to be.
But we're not telling everybodyelse we want them to be here.
We're telling you that we'd likeyou to be a part of it, but this
has gotta be the right fit foryou.
You've gotta feel that this isthe place where you can grow and
we can make the most of you.
Absolutely.
It's just so important that kidshear that.
And if you're not getting anoffer, this is this.
(10:46):
Yeah.
Hey, we're not gonna offer you,yeah.
We're.
We've got four outsides, we gotthree setters.
We're good.
I just don't have another spotfor you.
Or maybe a great player that youreally want leaves here and
thinks you feel ambivalent aboutthem in some way.
Yeah.
You don't want that.
You want them to know exactlyhow you feel about them.
Yeah, exactly.
Let's talk a little bit aboutwhat you, what gets you excited
(11:09):
when you see a recruit?
Because I, I loved Olivia theway Oli, we talked about this in
the first episode how youapproached Olivia when you were
recruiting her.
And I was like that because forme, when I realized I wanted a
kid.
It's when I was already thinkingabout how I was gonna coach
them, how I was gonna, when Icouldn't stop thinking about how
(11:30):
I could make them better I knewI was locked in.
Are, is there something similarfor you when you watch a kid
play that triggers you?
Yeah, I think the biggest thingthat I go, oh yeah, I want this
person, is that competitivepiece, right?
Yeah, because we wanna win here.
We wanna win, we wanna competefor national championships, we
wanna be spoken about in thattop grouping of teams in the
(11:50):
country all the time.
Position ourself that way.
And I think the number one thingyou have to be as competitive.
Yeah.
You have to be a greatcompetitor.
And so when I watch a player,yeah, you can see their skills
easily.
That's the easy part.
I think the first thing thatdraws me in is the
competitiveness.
And maybe that's how theyrespond after an error.
That's what I'm saying.
Show us more.
(12:11):
I think that is reallyimportant.
'cause great competitors wantthe ball right back.
They want the ball right back.
They wanna touch it again.
They're not afraid of makinganother error.
They're just very aggressive andgo after it.
And I love seeing that.
I think that draws me inimmediately.
I think somebody who is reallygood with their teammates, and
(12:32):
when I say that, I don't meanjust, oh yeah, you're great.
Who will walk over to a teammatewho's struggling, put an arm on
her back, or, and maybe give herkick in the rear when she needs
it?
That's right, because boththings are valuable.
Who understands how to deal withother people and has a really
good emotional intelligenceabout the people around them.
Yeah.
You just can't have enough kidsthat have it in'em, that by the
(12:54):
time their sophomores arejuniors, they're gonna stop a
practice.
This isn't good enough.
It doesn't have to be you.
They've got it in them to say,we're better than this.
Say that out loud or you arebetter than this, or I gotta be
better than this.
And it's so cool when it's notthe same person all the time.
You bet.
We've had that happen a numberof times over the past couple
weeks and it was differentpeople in the group and I
(13:16):
thought, okay, this is comingtogether nicely.
This is good.
This is really good.
It's lovely.
I keep, I'm gonna keep bringingback Olivia here'cause we had
such a good conversation aboutthis.
I was really impressed with, wetalked about visits when kids
come to visit you guys and youplay.
And she just said, she goes, I'mprobably wasn't that person,
that coach wanted me to takesomebody on a tour or take them
(13:36):
to the room.
But we had four or five girlsthat were really great at that.
Self-awareness.
Self-awareness.
Self-awareness is a big deal.
She's I just can't get enough ofthis kid.
Where are you with that?
When we're, when you have a kidcome in, typically you want them
to play with the girls in theoff season, I would imagine.
We don't.
We don't.
Don't.
Okay.
You've seen Now we get them,stay with them.
(13:57):
You've seen enough.
Now it's, let's see how theyreact and how they, and the only
time they'd be able to do thatanyway when they're playing on
their own.
'cause when we're in ourtraining block, they can't, it's
illegal.
Yeah.
But.
I think the biggest thing is,and I love what Olivia said
there, because she's a hundredpercent right.
She's pretty hardcore and.
I don't know that she would'vewanted to keep people.
(14:18):
And I think that's the biggestthing, first and foremost is if
we're gonna ask you to keep arecruit, you have to be somebody
who wants to keep a recruit.
That's right.
If you're someone who doesn'twanna be around other people
very much and don't like to bearound people you don't know,
not a good candidate for that.
So yeah, I think you figure outpretty quickly who the people on
your team are who love doingthat and enjoy it.
(14:39):
'cause if they enjoy it, therecruits can have a better time
anyway.
You don't have to use names oranything, but do you have
certain players that you counton to give you their opinion of
that visit and what they thoughtof that girl?
Yes.
And you're right about that.
It's not everybody, but it,there are a couple people Yeah.
We can go to and say, okay, howdid that go?
(14:59):
What did you think?
Yeah.
And most of the time, I must saymost of the time it goes very
well.
And they're like she was reallynice or she was a little quiet.
But then when it was a smallergroup and it wasn't 18 people in
her face, she was actuallyreally good one-on-one or in a
small group.
Because they're gonna learnthings that we're not going to
that, that.
Recruits are gonna share thingswith them.
(15:20):
Yeah.
Are going to do things with themthat they're probably not gonna
share with us.
And so I think the players areinvaluable.
And then every once in a whileyou get one.
Not often, where the playerscome in and say, no, absolutely
not.
Yeah.
And here's why.
And that's what I wanna know.
Why.
Yeah.
What was it that didn't sitright with you?
(15:40):
And that's where you have to becareful about who you're talking
with, because.
Teams need differentpersonalities.
They need different kinds ofpeople to be diverse and
successful.
And and we get players from allover the country with all kinds
of different backgrounds,different places.
But why did it not go well?
And there's a few things thatthey'll say where you go, okay,
(16:01):
I agree with you.
We're gonna, we're gonna backoff that one.
I'll let her know.
Yeah.
I remember having a, I had asenior captain that would come
in and just say, coach, I knowyou brought this kid in.
I know you really like him, but.
Here's a couple things I sawthat I'm really worried about
and he was never gonna play withthis kid.
Like he was gonna be long gone.
But he would say, I just, Idon't think he fits our team and
I don't think he fits ourculture.
There's some things that he saidthat I just turned me off.
(16:23):
And I love that.
I just love hearing that becausethere, how you gonna know that
when you've seen a kid playtwice in a game and you like
their attitude and you like, butyou don't know who they are when
they step off the court?
We had a captain the last.
Three years.
Abby Les she was a captain orsophomore, junior and senior.
So voters as a captain, as asophomore.
So I think that says somethingright away.
(16:44):
That a time.
Yeah.
Very mature.
And I talked a little earlierabout that emotional
intelligence.
I think that was her superpower.
Amazing with people.
She understood people'smotivations.
She understood the differenceswith people.
So she's someone we could alwaysgo to, whether it was something
inside the team or whether itwas with a recruit who came,
Hey, how did that go and how wasshe?
And I always very much trustedthe answers that got there
(17:06):
because Abby was always onpoint.
So nice to have.
And it goes back to recruiting.
You wanna recruit those kids,you wanna recruit those high EQ
kids and she always had theteam's best interest.
Yeah.
Very selfless human being.
Yeah.
And she would be thinking aboutthe future and she cared about
whether, she might never playwith this person, but she cared
about whether the program wasgetting a good person.
(17:28):
Yeah.
You've been at the point where.
You probably have on an averageyear.
Tell me if I'm wrong.
I would say five or six kidsthat could probably play D two
or higher.
Absolutely.
Without it.
Without it, I think most of ourroster.
Yeah, most of our, okay.
Where are you at with recruitingkids that want that D one, want
(17:51):
that D two That's important tothem, you can probably give them
more outside of that dollaramount that they're hunting for
that label that they're huntingfor.
How do you handle that?
Yeah.
I think that's the norm for us,actually.
That's where we live in therecruiting sphere, so I think we
do that on a daily basis, and Ithink the biggest thing is to
(18:12):
get them to see us play somehow.
Whether they come in to watch amatch or whether they look up an
old video somewhere online.
We're playing at a really highlevel, and you probably wanna
take a look at this.
But I think the other piece ofthat is we gotta find the right
people.
And so if somebody isn'tinterested in a smaller school
(18:33):
and a smaller town that hasgreat volleyball then they're
not the right fit for us.
But I think there's lots whojust aren't, don't understand
what we are.
We're a strange animal tounderstand.
Most grade volleyball, even indivision three, does not live in
tiny towns in schools that are1300 students.
So we tend to be unique and wejust try to talk with them about
(18:53):
that piece of it.
Come and see what you think.
You might be surprised and wecan compete with the places
you're talking to.
Yeah.
They're without a doubt.
We can compete with peopleyou're talking to in most cases.
And you really, this would be adifferent animal.
This is a place where you'regonna get a lot of balance.
Your academics are gonna comefirst and you can let the
(19:15):
academics come first and stillwin national championships and
play at a really high level.
Because here the two thingsactually work really well
together.
The way Junior is set up withour academics actually helps
that because we're done withclass at four every day, we,
they can be done with theiracademic day shift gears come
here.
So that ability to have somebalance to be part of something
(19:36):
more than just be a student.
Be an athlete, but be able to bepart of a club or two, do some
of those kind of things.
And there, there are morestudent athlete prospects who
want that than people think.
Yeah.
When they start thinking abouttheir life, what is this going
to look like in college?
I think a lot of them don't wantit to be volleyball.
(19:56):
Volleyball first.
Volleyball first, all the time.
Yeah.
They wanna get an education.
They wanna get a greateducation.
They wanna experience college alittle bit.
And so I think we tend to getpeople who are really great
players and could take ascholarship to many places, but
I think they want a little morebalance than that.
Yeah.
And they still wanna play on agreat volleyball team.
Yeah.
(20:17):
I was gonna ask you this firstsegment, and I forgot to ask it,
so I'm gonna bring it up now.
Wash U has a, I don't know whatthey have now.
$12 billion endowment.
They do.
John Johns Hopkins has, is worldrenowned for their medical
school.
Everybody across the countryknows Johns Hopkins'cause
they've got such a great medicalprogram.
Hope is hosted, I don't know howmany years of national
(20:38):
championships, of differentsports and has one of the best
Yep.
Gyms in the country.
MIT is world renowned for theirscience and math.
You're a small town, D threeprivate college.
How in the heck have you doneit?
How.
You know what we tell people,you know what we're known for?
Volleyball?
Yeah.
(20:59):
Volleyball.
Yeah.
And they're like, oh, wait aminute.
I'm like, everybody in this towncares about volleyball.
Yeah.
We're gonna get top billing oneverything.
Yeah.
This gym is gonna be full.
People are gonna know you whenyou stop in at the local sheets.
You're gonna have people saying,Hey, great game last night.
You have no idea who they are.
That's the allure.
Yeah.
And I think once they get reeledin with the volleyball, they
(21:22):
start doing a little homework onthe school and they start
realizing, oh, it's a reallygood school.
Yeah.
A really good academic withthat, really great academic
programs, but undoubtedly it'sthe volleyball.
And Larry worked his tail off.
Early in the years of thisprogram's existence and made
them part of a nationalconversation that in some ways
(21:43):
they had no business being apart of.
Yeah.
I think we were like a badge ofhonor.
We used to go to Wash U everyyear, back when Terry Clemens
was at Wash u Larry was headcoach here.
I was his associate head coach.
And we would drive to St.
Louis in a mini bus and we wouldstop in Terre Haute, Indiana.
Yeah.
And then.
On the first leg, and then wewould go the rest of the way the
(22:05):
next day.
We would play Friday night,usually against Wash U in front
of a packed crowd.
And then we would play two onSaturday and then we would get
back in our little mini bus andwe would drive home through the
night.
And we wore like a badge ofwater.
Like we will do things otherpeople will not do.
We were much hard, much morehardcore.
Yeah.
And I think we've owned that foryears.
(22:26):
We're like the little enginethat could, yeah.
I, it drives and that's how wefunction best.
It drives me crazy when coachesplan a Susie Cake's pre-season
schedule.
It just drives me crazy.
I wanted my players, I wanted myplayers to play against the best
talent we could find.
'cause when it got to conferenceit's still to this day, if you
wanna make nationals, you betterwin your league.
(22:48):
'cause there's no guarantees.
Oh no.
And especially with thingschanging yeah, it, you gotta win
your conference for sure, butyou gotta be ready for those
guys.
I always say to Mike, we go tothese big, beautiful gyms,
right?
Yeah.
And ours is a good gym, right?
Yeah.
It's just a good little gym.
But we go to these big,beautiful gyms and I'll just say
to our players, you know whatthe best thing about this gym
as?
And they're like, what?
I'm like, when it's silent whilewe're playing, and they're like,
(23:11):
oh yeah, coach.
Two questions to finish.
Piece of advice for a studentathlete that wants to play in
college and wants to getrecruited on how to do it.
And be proactive.
Be proactive.
Do your homework.
Look at the places that havewhat you wanna study, because in
the end, you gotta get a greateducation.
(23:32):
So look for the places that havewhat you wanna study, and then
be proactive.
Reach out to the coaches becauseyou would be surprised like.
Names.
We start recognizing names.
We see them.
Oh, may.
Yeah, next time we go out we'vegotta make sure we check this
kid out.
She's written to us threedifferent times now.
She's been updating us, Atan.
Let's see what she looks like.
Her video looks good.
Let's see her live.
So I just think being proactive,but do your homework.
(23:54):
I don't think you wanna blitz300 places when a hundred of
them don't even have theacademic industry you're looking
for.
That's right.
That's right.
Or you're gonna be miserable inthe environment.
You want four seasons, you'renot gonna be happy in Arizona.
Yes.
You have to be real withyourself about what it is that
you're looking for in those fouryears.
How you learn, man you, youdon't want a 300 class person
(24:16):
classroom when you learn betterone-on-one with a professor,
with 14 kids in a student.
Or, we always say to peoplehere, if you're looking for
nightlife, Huntington is notyour place.
If you love the outdoors, we'refantastic.
That's but nightlife, there isnone.
Yeah.
I would've not known that wantedthat at 17, but boy, I will love
that right now.
(24:36):
I would love that.
We always say the biggestchallenge is getting them here,
but once they get here, theyfocus on the right things
because there's not, there's notall the distractions.
That's right.
We don't have a, we don't have amajor city to attract them, but
we also don't have a major cityto distract them.
That's right.
There, there's nowhere to go onThursday, Friday, Saturday
(24:56):
night, but on campus, hang outwith your friends on campus and
they meet tons of people andthey have a good time.
And those kids have the bettermemories than the kids that live
close to Chicago and Detroit andMiami.
And because they, yeah, there'sa closeness and a community that
builds there.
And this place, I know a lot ofpeople community's kind of a
buzzword, right?
Oh, we have a great community.
What does that mean?
(25:17):
Here it means that people willlook you right in the eye and
say hello to you.
If they have never seen youbefore, they don't care.
That's how I grew up.
That's how I grew up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I get my, my, my kids tease meall the time.
I just, I wave at everybody andsay hi to everybody.
And I did parking duty with mykids' school today and I love
giving every kid high five of,they get out of the car and, it
brightens their day.
(25:38):
So I love that attitude.
Same question, but for parents,what's your advice to parents
going through their recruitingprocess?
What do you think they need toknow?
Help your children be proactiveon their own.
Don't do it for them.
Letters from parents, thingsfrom parents, I don't think we
paid much attention to.
(25:58):
Yeah.
Because in the end, if therewere, if a coach is recruiting
them, you're not going to bethere during those four years.
So encourage your studentathletes to be the proactive
people.
Reaching out, having theconversation, yes.
On the first phone call when youcall.
Sure.
You can be on, you probably havelots of questions of that coach
too.
That's perfectly fine.
Maybe don't be on everyconversation, not every call.
(26:21):
I think there is a piece of astudent athlete and a coach
connecting on a phone call thatstudent athlete has to be okay
communicating with the coach,not the parents.
So I think it is reallyimportant to let them have a
little bit of ownership for it,take some ownership and do some
things on their own through theprocess.
But certainly not all of it.
But I think once in a while letthem do their own thing there.
(26:43):
Yeah.
Par parents still need to beparents through this process,
but they Sure.
You're the one that's gonna becoaching them.
They need to learn how to havethat conversation with you.
And at a division three, likeGiata, the parents absolutely
are part of the equation becausethere's a bill to be paid.
You're talking about ascholarship.
And so they have to be part ofthe conversation, but there's
also a relationship that needsto develop between the student
(27:06):
athlete and the coach.
Where the parents aren't part ofthat, because that's what the
four years is gonna look like.
You're gonna see the parentsmaybe every other weekend.
Yeah.
I want to thank Dr.
Jim and Olivia for guilttripping you to come on.
I really appreciate it.
No problem.
I have, I've been trying to getyou on for months, so I, it
means the world to me that youdid this and I'm such a big fan.
(27:29):
I love watching your team's fly.
I just, I love watching.
Oh, thank you thank you.
I was division three coach for12 years and I know how hard it
is to win a game, let alone.
Conference championship, get tothe nationals to do it three
times.
So keep doing what you're doing,keep doing it with your heart
and you're doing it the rightway'cause you're doing it the
way you want to do it.
(27:49):
And man, it's awesome.
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
That was Jutta head volleyballcoach and three straight
national championship coachHeather Pavlik.
Hearing her perspective onrecruiting is really fantastic.
She's not just a evaluatingskills or stats.
She's looking for characteraccountability and the
(28:09):
willingness to grow, and that'swhy she wants to see more than
just your highlight film.
It's the same toughness andcompassion she leads with every
day in her program, and it's whyjunior out volleyball has become
a national powerhouse.
If you found this conversationvaluable, make sure to
subscribe, favorite, and sharethe podcast.
That support keeps us going.
(28:31):
And helps us to continue to growthis community of athletes,
parents, and coaches who want toapproach recruiting with
purpose.
And don't forget, you can findmy book Significant Recruiting
the Playbook for prospectivecollege athletes and the
companion book, the VolleyballRecruits
journal@coachmattrogers.com.
Until next time, stay focused.
(28:53):
Stay ready, and staysignificant.
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