October 20, 2025 • 34 mins
📬 “Clarity Wins: A Recruit’s Playbook with Coach Vinny Barber” 🤼♂️🧭
In Part 2, Coach Vinny Barber—Head Men’s Wrestling Coach at the University of Lynchburg—gets practical about recruiting for high school athletes, parents, and coaches. Drawing from concrete examples in the conversation, Vinny shows what actually earns attention, builds trust, and moves you up a coach’s list—without the fluff.
You’ll hear:
- Communication that counts — how to reach out with purpose, follow up, and keep it concise
- Film that helps — what to include, what to skip, and the right length
- Social media that builds trust — what coaches notice (and what raises red flags)
- Academics as a separator — transcripts, test plans, and reliability over talk
- Reading “fit” — culture cues on visits, body language in the room, honest self-assessment
- Timelines & first-roster realities — how Lynchburg is building toward ODAC 2026–27 and what that means for recruits and families
Learn more about Coach Barber: https://lynchburgsports.com/staff-directory/vinny-barber/363
Connect with all things Significant Coaching & Recruiting—podcasts, weekly blogs, Significant Recruiting books, Launchpad classes, and speaking: coachmattrogers.com
Learn more and connect with Matt Rogers here: https://linktr.ee/coachmattrogers
Listen on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, iHeartRadio, and all your favorite podcast platforms.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
Welcome back to The SignificantCoaching Podcast.
I'm your host, Matt Rogers.
Today is part two with CoachVinny Barber head men's
wrestling coach at theUniversity of Lynchburg, and
we're keeping this basic anduniversal for every listener.
So don't think that you have tobe a wrestling family or coach
to really understand what we'regonna be talking about today.
This is for you no matter whatsport you're a part of.
(00:33):
This episode lays out whatactually moves a recruit up, a
coach's list.
Clear communication, consistenteffort, and habits that show who
you are when nobody's watching.
Coach Barber will break downfilm that helps, emails that get
read, social media that buildstrust, and the academic plan
that signals you are ready forthe demands of college.
(00:54):
We'll get practical, unfit, howto read a program's culture prep
for visits, how to carryyourself in conversations and
understand timelines.
And because Lynchburg isbuilding its first roster on the
road to odac competition in 2026, 27, you'll hear how a new
program evaluates charactercommitment and readiness.
(01:15):
For weekly blogs, recruitingtools, my significant recruiting
books, my launchpad classes, andhow to schedule me to speak at
your school or organization,head over to coach matt
rogers.com.
Now let's get into part two withCoach Vinny Barber.
You and I have been talkingrecruiting for a long time.
I'm really interested in,'causeI've been out of it in terms of
(01:38):
running my own program for 12years now.
So much has changed from atechnological standpoint.
So much has happened now withtexting and there's so many apps
out there and social media.
Are you hearing from parentsmore than you expected to?
Are you getting texts fromparents and social media things
more than you expected to?
Yeah.
(01:58):
Yeah.
I think,'cause I kind ofengineer that in a way.
So as I've kind, I say older asI've just aged past the way kids
communicate I've started likereally relying on Facebook for
parents, right?
I add every recruit's parents onFacebook'cause that gives me
some insight.
'cause the parents post thethings, the kids don't care,
think they care about yet,right?
Like homecoming or an a on apaper, which now that gives me
(02:20):
another touch point that I mightnot already hear from the kid.
I'd be like, Hey, I saw you guyswent to Disney.
I saw you did really good onyour project.
And they're always like, Iwonder how Coach knows, right?
It's'cause I care to know.
But that does open the door tohave more conversations with
parents.
I look at like social media as.
Extension of my coaching staffand myself, like Facebook is me
recruiting the parents in a way.
(02:41):
And if you go to my Facebookpage yeah, you see some of my
personal life in there, but it'spretty much about the program
and the way I am as a humanright, and the way I run my
program.
And so talking to parents morehas definitely become a thing.
I'm actually I'm like.
Trying it now because I thinkparents who wanna be involved,
like, why not have them involvedNow I'm good about setting the
boundaries, like as you do withfundraising or anybody outside
(03:03):
the team that's involved islike, how do you create a
boundary that they're not liketoo involved, but they're, they
feel good.
But I actually have a lot ofinteractions with parents and
building those relationshipsbecause they.
Let's face it, they're part ofthe decision process.
They are part of an alumni basein the future.
They're part of a fundraisingbase.
They have so many factors, and Iwant them to feel special that
they're sending their son tocome wrestle for Lynchburg.
(03:25):
And they have a stake in thegame too.
And they feel good about it,they feel good.
And I mean it's in longerinsight into how their child,
who their child is, and whotheir family is that we're
welcoming to our program.
That's really cool.
Is social media.
A good way for a kid to reachout to you to get noticed by
(03:46):
you.
Because one of the things Ialways warn kids on, it's real
easy for a coach now to click aheart.
I just sent you a message coachand Oh, they clicked a heart.
Oh, they followed me.
Yeah.
What does that mean to you whenyou favor a kid or follow a kid?
What's that?
Yeah.
I think, what's the reality ofthat?
I'm gonna, it's gonna soundlike, like scientific when I say
(04:08):
this, but I just was talking tomy assistant about it, right?
He's first time coaching and Iwas like, recruiting is not that
hard.
I'm not discrediting why I dothese things, but swiping up on
a kid's story and sending himlike that fire emoji.
Is like just a quick rush oflike dopamine and be like, coach
sees me.
And I don't, I'm notdiscrediting that.
That's, I do it because that'show you communicate with the
(04:29):
kids.
I have a desk full ofhandwritten letters.
I actually have some here that Igotta mail out, that though, not
as hard hitting anymore with thekids.
Right?
Sammy just went up and watched akid play soccer on a senior day.
We're not soccer coaches.
That the kid thinks that's cool.
But staying and meeting them attheir level is really important
to me.
(04:49):
So the parents see things we domore, the coaches see those like
old school recruiting and Ithink that there's never not a
time that's important, but fromthe kids standpoint and also.
It is easier for me.
You're sitting at home andyou're relaxing instead of
getting on the phone with thekids, which you can do when
you're driving.
That's still gonna be somethingwe do, but you're just like,
doom scrolling and you comeacross a recruits page.
(05:11):
Like that's helpful for me.
That now has become like a, theway to touch the have a touch
point with a kid.
It's like pretty easy.
It's like a low hanging fruit.
Yeah.
But you'd still be shocked onhow many don't do it.
Social media is like where wemeet'em.
That's that has become very asmuch as I, I feel like I'm an
old man when I say this as much,I hate that it has become
something that, we've had toadapt with.
(05:32):
I think you see some coaches getoutta the game now because
they're adverse to understandingthat, or they bring in really
young assistants who live there.
My assistant crushes it onsocial media.
All my assistants were young,first time coaches, they crush
it there.
And the social media footprint,it's that's what's cool.
You gotta be cool.
I gotta be somewhat cool andgotta have it.
Yeah.
I won't take credit for any ofthat, but it's something that
(05:55):
I've preached to you and yourstaff at Ozarks and I preached I
just did a keynote with 60coaches in Oregon.
And it's one of those thingsthat.
There's too many coaches thatdon't get that part.
It's the wow for the kids you'vetaken.
It might just be 20 secondsoutta your life, but you've
said, wow, that's cool.
Hey, great job.
Or, Hey, boom man, way to go.
(06:18):
Yeah.
And it's their social mediabecomes like the old school
Rolodex of notes.
Yes.
Like I get so much informationlike, and I'm not, again, like
college coach's life is superbusy, right?
Like between, like for my, forexample, the last three weeks I
put 10 hour days putting wallsup in this facility and getting
it ready.
The last thing I was doing waschecking results.
But while I'm going, while I'mhome for 20, 30 minutes and
(06:40):
waiting for dinner to be done,like I'm scrolling through
Instagram, it's oh, that kidwent five and two that weekend.
Ah, there's the result I waslooking for.
There's the.
Oh, he had homecoming or he didthis, or there's a picture of
him getting a good win or Ilearned more about him outside
of wrestling.
I think social media actually,as much as some people wanna
despise it as much as Isometimes do, it also has made
recruiting a more well-roundedlike approach and you can really
(07:04):
learn so much more if you justkinda let it like absorb you for
an hour a night.
Yeah.
I think what's changed in thelast 25 years since I started
doing this is you might have 50to a hundred recruits that are
on your radar that you know whothey are.
You've seen'em compete you knowwhat they're made of.
Today it might be 500 to athousand kids Oh, yeah.
(07:27):
That you've had a touch pointwith.
Yep.
And you can't, you don't havethe time in the day to do it
like we used to 25 years ago.
Yep.
You need that social media togo, Hey, I'm still here.
Still thinking about you.
Yep.
Nice job, because everyinteraction on social media is
recruiting.
Like we just posted ourhighlight video, a highlight
video today from our camp.
And it's like that is a touchpoint for recruiting.
(07:47):
Everyone just saw that everypiece of content is that.
And so it works both ways,whether we're interacting or
they're interacting with us onsocial media, like that's huge.
And then, the, I see how this isgonna make me feel like I'm like
a hundred years old.
I see some knucklehead stuff onsocial media though.
So that's one thing I tell kidsbe careful what you're posting,
right?
I see some kids posting thingswhere I'm like, man, I wish I
(08:08):
didn't know that about you.
I wish that was like somethingyou didn't do.
I wish that was, kids havegotten a lot better at it
though.
Like usually kids you post on,so I'll never run across those
kids'cause I just don't attractthose types of kids to our
program to begin with.
And they, I think kids havegotten better and like when I
was coming through, like thingsI posted in college, idiot, I
was a big old idiot.
But it was new.
That was when Twitter and allthat stuff was just coming out.
(08:31):
Now it's like these kids are alittle smarter.
They know what to keep private.
But it's just a big insight andI think we just had a call with
our recruiting software about anhour ago, and integrating social
medias into their profiles was abig one, right?
Trying to get their social mediais so big.
It just, I always look, I'mlike, what are the schools do
they follow?
And, oh, that's my competition,right?
Oh, that school's not following'em.
They don't have a chance.
And I know that might not be theway to look at it, but I do, I
(08:53):
look and say Hey, so and so isnot following this recruit that
we're on.
And they're not even in thepicture.
Yeah it's.
I was gonna ask you thisquestion in the last segment,
but this is a really goodtransition to get that topic
back up.
Social media is theirindependence.
In terms of where their identitytrying to figure out what their
(09:15):
identity is next.
Yep.
You talked about in the lastsegment about that first two
weeks, you want kids to figureout college.
You wanna figure out how are yougonna do this?
How are you going to, are yougonna get your butt up at 6:00
AM to start practicing 6:00 AMHow important is that they try
(09:37):
and figure out and learn whattheir identity is without their
parents before they get to you?
Is that even possible?
I think it's hard.
I think that becomes reallyhard.
It's interesting because, Ithink too, kids, like when I was
growing up, I wanted a lot offreedom.
I think now as.
At times it's just changed.
(09:57):
I think parents have become alittle bit more friendly with
their kids, where you know, notthat I come from a very strict
household, but my parents weremy parents.
I didn't go, I didn't do some ofthe things kids do with their
parents nowadays.
I think it takes, a unique kidto try to go find out.
There was a kid I was recruitingin Illinois and unfortunately I
just don't think he wants tocome this far away, but, he
started his own littlelandscaping business and he was
(10:18):
like, really crushing life.
And I was like, man, those kidsare really hard to find nowadays
to do those types of things.
But finding their identity asthemselves is important.
Some of the things that I lookat there is, and it, this is a
weird one'cause I want theparents to come up on the visit
with them for sure, but it'skids who showed up to the
prospect camp without theirparents, who makes the decisions
like, Hey coach, I'm ready tocome visit.
(10:39):
I'm gonna let my parents know.
Or, Hey, my mom's still fillingout my applications.
I still get that sometimes, likeparents fill out the
applications and actuallyincreasingly more than I ever
have.
And I used to have a rule.
If your parents are filling outthe application, I ain't
recruiting you.
But I think the day and age weare, parents are more involved
and.
It makes it hard to stand onthat hill.
(11:00):
I don't wanna die on that hillanymore, but it is really
important for kids to start to,to find their own, because, and
that's what I tell kids on therecruiting process, and I beat
around the bushes.
Hey, when you get here.
You're on your own for good,right?
Like you're, this is it.
And find that over the summer,right?
Find that, start doing your ownlaundry.
I tell'em all, start doing yourown laundry, right?
That's the one thing you'llthank me for when you get here
(11:20):
is I did my own laundry, so Igot my closure cleaned, right?
And that's a small one.
And but it's a big one.
But finding their own identitynow and becoming.
Like a man now is importantbecause again, there's so much
change about to happen incollege, and I got kids that I'm
recruiting from Minnesota.
There's gonna, there's not kidsfrom 20 minutes down the road.
They're here, you're going far.
You got new responsibilities,new people.
(11:41):
You got a roommate, you mightnot know you got a coach that
you're feeling out for the firsttime and you're on your own.
So having some independence isreally important.
Hypothetically, I'm a16-year-old wrestler in Ohio.
Done really well.
Heard great things aboutLynchburg.
(12:02):
I'm gonna make state my junioryear again for this, the second
time.
How do I let Coach Vinny Barberknow that I'm interested in you?
What's ideal for you to get akid's information get to know
that they're thinking about you.
I talk to kids about this allthe time.
Every time I go to a highschool, it's guys, you think
there's.
You know so many kids in thecountry who wrestle, so many who
(12:24):
wanna wrestle in college andthen just like I'm very honest
with the kids, like there's somecoaches you just don't recruit.
So if there's 175 division threeco or 145 division three college
wrestling programs, I'm justgonna say 45, might never even
get outta their office and hopethe kids come to them.
So there's only a hundred to 200coaches, including assistants
that are ever recruiting.
So 200 and there's probably,sometimes I'll run it like this
(12:46):
weekend I had a hundred kids inhere, right?
So the numbers just are.
Against us as coaches.
So I always say reach out,right?
I want the kid who reaches outand something that I've seen
more increasingly, like kidsmake little mock resumes and I'm
like, that's cool, right?
They email it to me and I'mlike, that's cool.
You go up.
You might not be that good atwrestling right now, but I like
that, right?
You're, I'm gonna worry aboutyou going to class.
(13:07):
I get kids who reach out to meon social media.
One thing I advise is try not touse slang or, and talk in
complete sentences when you'redoing that, right?
The biggest one, and this is theone, like some weird analogy,
but it's almost like datingrecruiting's.
Almost like dating.
You put so much time in it andthen you just get ghosted when
the biggest pain in the butt forme is I looked at it the other
(13:29):
day.
I messaged all the kids tryingto push, get some visits and
stuff.
So I got this app where I likecan send the messages over and
over, but I track analyticallywhere, how much have they
responded?
And I got seven or eight kidswho we want, and I don't want to
give up on, they've neverresponded to me.
And then one of them today said,coach, I'm sorry I've seen these
messages.
I've just been busy.
And I'm like, how busy?
(13:50):
And I need him'cause he's a bigguy and it's a little far hard
to find big guys out here, butit's like kids don't, and I'm
not knocking the kid I used toget so mad at the kids, they
don't get it right.
They're 17, 18 years old.
They don't get it.
I can't expect them to thinklike you.
And I think, but I say it allthe time.
If you are not about a coach,just let'em know.
(14:10):
Hey coach, I'm not interested.
You can't let a college coachtext you three times with no
response.
You can't have three methods ofcommunication with no response.
Yep.
That's, yep.
They don't understand what thatdoes to your mentality about
them and the impression thatthey're building in your head.
And I use this analogy, youtalked about dating.
I use this all the time.
I just tell kids, I go, if agirl reaches out to you, you're
(14:34):
a boy and a girl reaches out toyou, or you reach out to a girl
and you say, Hey, love to go tothe movies with you.
Silence.
Yeah.
Day two, silence.
Day three, silence.
What is your, what do you thinkthat girl is thinking about you?
Yeah.
She obviously doesn't wanna goto the movies with me.
Obviously she doesn't like me.
Okay.
Yeah.
(14:54):
Guess what happens when you dothat to a coach?
Yeah.
Same thing.
Who sent you a text?
Say, Hey, I love you.
Can we set up a time to talk?
Yep.
And it's funny.
We have the number one schoolI'm gonna recruit against is
about 45 minutes away.
Me and that coach are reallyclose.
He's runs a great program, butwe talk about recruits.
We're good buddies.
We've been buddies since Istarted Coach and he was at a
different school like, and so wetalk about it and I'm like, Hey,
(15:16):
and we'll always recruit thesame kids, like we're always
gonna recruit.
I said, so and so you talk tohim, he says.
Doesn't answer me.
I said, me neither.
And we're always just we don'twanna deal with that.
Or like I would you, yeah.
And I say to kids too'causesometimes, and I care about
kids, I wanna see'em do well.
Like a kid will come across mydesk sometimes and be like, Hey,
I want to be like ameteorologist, right?
(15:36):
And I'll be like, Hey, PlymouthState is division three
wrestling.
And they're really good in thatfield academically.
'cause there's not a lot ofoptions for that.
But I think like sometimes thatalso counteracts itself where.
We might see a kid, like if Igot a good coaching buddy, and
it's man, this was my experiencewith the kid.
Like coaches talk, like we'renot like cutthroat division one
people where we don't talk aboutrecruits like we talk, we know.
(15:59):
And no, every time that Icommunicate with a recruit is
another opportunity for me towin them over just as much as
every time that they communicatewith the coaches, another time
they could lose thatopportunity.
And I don't wanna, I always lookat recruiting that they hold all
the power.
I know that might sound weird,but I think a lot of coaches.
Live by this.
Like I can do more for them thanthey can do for me.
No, they can do for me.
That's why I'm recruiting them.
(16:20):
I wanna help them.
And it's transactional in thatregard.
But like the kids hold the powerin the whole recruitment
process, definitely at thedivision three level, because I
don't have any money to offerathletically and I like it that
way.
But they ha they almost gottaown that a little better.
And communication is key, right?
Like communication and justgrowing up.
(16:41):
Like the last thing I like tosee is a kid commit to another
school after I'm recruiting himfor three weeks and he, or three
months.
And he doesn't even tell me.
I'm like, man, I thought we werecool like that, right?
I thought we were buddies.
It's stuff like that.
And I just think sometimes kidsdon't recognize that.
Yeah.
Yeah, I told one of my kids lastnight, I go, you're probably
gonna have 18 or 20 coachesmaking you an offer here.
(17:01):
When we're all said and done.
I know this is gonna be hard tohear, but I'm gonna tell you
this right now.
You're gonna call every one of'em once you make the decision.
Yep.
They put a ton of time into youand they wanted you, they
wouldn't have offered you ifthey didn't want you.
Yeah.
They see you as a part of theirfuture.
Make the phone call.
Don't send a text, don't send anemail.
Make the phone call and say,coach, thank you.
(17:21):
There's a place that's a littlebetter for me and maybe a little
better money, and, but I justwant you to know how much I
appreciate you.
Yeah.
Does that, doesn't that makeyour day when you get that?
Oh yeah.
Even though it's heartbreaking.
Oh, it's awesome because I'lltell you, I want these kids to
be successful.
So that's happened to me before.
And I'll look across at thenational tournament and see that
kid and be like, Hey, good luck,man.
(17:42):
I like that, like me.
I like that.
I don't wanna be mad at an 18 to22-year-old.
That's just weird at 35, 33years old, right?
Yeah.
So I and I want that for kids.
And also, like I tell Sammy,rarely will I ever say the door
closes on a kid.
Yeah.
'cause sometimes they might gosomewhere they think at 18 is
the right choice and then 20rolls around and they're like,
Hey, it's not, or we had a kid,my last national qualifier at
(18:03):
Ozarks, he didn't choose theOzarks.
He was very good about it.
Went to a different school forsome different reasons last
year.
Said, Hey man, I wanna wrestlefor you.
I knew I should have back then.
I was like, that door neverclosed, made it became my last
national qualifier.
He was actually the assistantcoach there now.
Great kid, but it's like nowthat I have master's degrees
here, a kid I recruit at 18.
I'm gonna try to get him here asmaybe a ga as maybe the used his
(18:26):
last year, whatever it is.
Like I keep a running list on myphone of like recruits we've
missed out on.
I just check and see if they'restill wrestling or what happens.
And not like illegally.
It's but hey, maybe he's in theportal.
I've talked to that kid and itended well.
Now when they just ghost me.
It's it's the bridge has beenburnt a little bit.
I don't, and I know it's hard tosay'cause they're underdeveloped
(18:48):
brains at 17, 18 years old, butI'm like, nah, I don't.
That ship has sailed.
Yeah, and social media makes itso much easier now, we have
texting, we have social media.
You can go so easy.
You don't have to tell nobody.
You could just text a coach.
I found another option.
Be like, oh, you don't even haveto, I don't even have to hear
you say it.
At least you demonstrated somelevel of respect.
Some level of We put into eachother was valuable.
(19:09):
Yep.
Correct.
I just had a 45 minute phoneconversation with a kid I
recruited 20 years ago that wentto another school.
I wanted the kid more thananything.
He's a lawyer now.
He's got his own family.
We connected through LinkedInand we talked on the phone.
He goes, coach, I would've lovedto play for you, but your school
didn't have some of the things Iwanted, but, and I was like.
Hey man, I completelyunderstand, but I'm so still so
(19:30):
proud of you.
Look what out with your wifeoff.
I get, I got this recruit I usedto, I recruited at the Ozarks.
He was at another school inArkansas that he transferred
out.
When he was transferred.
I re recruited him and now he'she'll send me recruits now that,
because he's from New Jersey andI'm on this side now and he's
Hey.
And we actually just landed akid the other day because of
him, and I'm like, that works.
Like it just wasn't a fit forhim is all.
There may not be a betteranalogy than for coaches and
(19:51):
athletes to understand that therecruiting process is a long
journey that's gonna continuelong after you graduate college
if you do it right, if you thinkabout that mindset, right?
Correct.
Yeah, so I love that.
Coach.
This has been awesome.
I haven't asked this question.
I don't think of any guess anycollege coach before, but I
wanna get your thoughts on it.
(20:12):
I usually ask about, you've doneso much already, given advice
for parents and recruits.
Yeah.
What's your advice to highschool coaches about the
recruiting journey?
What do you wish?
Yeah.
It's, they were doing andthinking about.
So I think what's reallyimportant for high school
coaches, and I'm pretty brashwhen I say this.
I spoke at like an Arkansasthing and they never had me back
(20:33):
'cause of this like an Arkansascoaches convention, but all the
coaches want, they asked me,what do you look for in a
recruit?
And I think they wanted thisvery easy oh, when he moves his
hands in his feet, he does this.
When he does this, he does that.
And wrestling related.
And I was like.
I need somebody who's comingfrom a program where their coach
is like real with them.
I think sometimes high schoolcoaches, get really caught up
(20:57):
in, in where they can send theirkids and it becomes like a
weird, oh, I sent my kid overto.
University of Northern Iowa.
Now me and Schwab are like thisand it's are you, is that why
you did it?
So you said to that coach, we'rebuddies and you can get a beer
with him every now and again, soyou can post about it.
I want the coach.
(21:17):
There's a lot of coaches that Irun into now out here where it's
like, Hey, I got a kid for you.
And we will sit down after hewrestles for me or and it
started more at the Ozarkstowards the end.
But I can tell out here somecoaches just want the best for
their kid.
Yeah, like I've connected with,there's some coaches out here
that I'm really not superinterested in building
relationships with right nowbecause they're more on the what
(21:38):
can you do for me, type.
Thing rather than the coaches.
What can you do for them?
What can you do for their kids?
And it's I want the coaches whorecognize that it's not about
wrestling, right?
Like I want the coaches who haveme and like we, we built some
really good relationships.
The best coach in the state, oneof the best coaches in the
state, both coaching stacks,one's skyline and one is
(21:59):
Grassfield.
They're like number one.
Number two, arguably eitherone's the best.
And we go out to their highschools a lot, built really good
relationships with them.
And they just say we respectwhat you do out there.
We respect what you're building.
They don't even care if we'redivision three, division one, if
we have money, if we have not tolike, Hey, this kid will be good
for you.
Rarely does it even come uplike, oh, they wanna go.
Do you want the kids have thatallure, but I want coaches and
(22:22):
coaches need to level with theirkids and sometimes have the hard
conversation like.
Division one Athletics right nowis such a cutthroat space.
The Division one dream is dead.
I believe the Division one dreamis dead.
I know that sounds crazy to say,but like to say, I'm a fringe
Division one wrestler and I'mgonna walk on and the coach is
gonna spend time and develop me,and I'm gonna win a national
(22:43):
championship on my senior year.
He's gonna pay five kids at thesame weight in that same five
years that you're there tryingto do that thing.
Just the way, it's just the wayit is now.
Yeah, it is.
And and if they're not, then theprogram's probably not all that
successful.
There's such, there's no, notmuch not much parody there,
right?
Like you're either paying kids alot of money or you're not
having success.
(23:03):
And their job is to find thebest kids in the country from
California all the way to NewYork.
And you could be in Montana,right?
Yeah.
So I, I want coaches whounderstand that picture, and
they don't really ask me whattechnical things do my kids need
to work on.
That's the question that comesafter they commit.
Hey, coach, he's committed toyou.
How can I get him better andready for your room?
(23:24):
That's a down the road question.
The question the things that Iwant these coaches hammering me
on now is like.
How are you gonna help my kidbecome great at life?
And the coaches who find morevalue in saying, I'm sending my
kids to wrestling college forfour years at a place where they
can be successful academicallyand athletically, versus those
singular signing day posts whenyou've got your arm around them
(23:46):
and there's three division onehats on the table, and that's
your claim to fame.
And so I know that's along-winded answer.
I hope that makes sense.
But I need, I I only recruitfrom programs that send kids to
division three level on a, ornon-scholarship programs on a
consistent basis.
And I don't mean that as like topush them out.
It's like they get it right.
Like there, there's a club intown.
(24:07):
He wasn't too interested inhaving me out or any division
three coaches, and I'm like.
Why?
Yeah.
Like why?
Fuck, you have to lose.
Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
And that's what I thought.
And now I'm just like, okay, Iprobably won't ever get a kid
from that club and I'm okay withthat because the other thing
that co high school coachesdon't realize sometimes is like
the athletes you produce.
(24:30):
Have had for a few years becomewho you are in your belief
system of wrestling.
So there's a really good buddyof mine, Willie Hilton out there
in North Carolina.
I'll take his best kids down tohim.
Maybe he is not his best kidsbecause that guy's a great coach
and he knows what he's talkingabout and he instills the right
things in his kids and he wantsthe best for them.
There's some other coaches whereit's.
I wanna take their best kid'cause they don't think highly
(24:51):
of division three or they'regonna come in with this sense of
arrogance.
It's like realizing like I'mrecruiting you to high school
coach.
You're my first you're one ofthe first people I look at
personally as a high schoolcoach.
Like I look and see what programare they coming from, what kind
of values are being instilled,what kind of things are they
teaching their kids?
Yeah.
Not just in wrestling, but likehow important is it then for
them to match the kid up withthe correct college fit?
(25:13):
Or how important is it for themto hang Penn State's wrestling
banner from their gym?
I, it was always a pet peeve ofmine when a high school coach
would call me and say, Matt, Igot a kid for you.
Yeah.
Like this is the perfect kid foryou.
I'm like, you've never been inmy gym.
You've never seen him practice.
Yep.
You have no idea what our systemis offensively or defensively
(25:34):
and you think you've got a kidfor me.
Yep.
I always tell high schoolcoaches, if you're gonna call me
about a kid, say, Hey, Matt.
I got a kid I think can play atyour level.
Yep.
Would you evaluate them for me?
Yeah.
Would you gimme some feedbackand let me know if we're right,
if we're wrong, or what we needto be looking at differently?
Yep.
So now that person wants to be apartner with me.
Now that person wants to learnabout my system and how I teach.
(25:59):
Yeah.
Instead of trying to tell mewhat kid's gonna fit, how are
you?
No.
And that, that is, that's huge.
It's like I get this one a lot.
Coach.
He's a D one talent.
What's a D?
What's a D one?
Talent.
What does that mean?
That's true.
What does that one mean?
I dunno what that means.
I swear like my assistantwrestled four years, division
one, one of the best.
He was like the number one highschool recruit coming out of
(26:22):
high school into college hissenior year.
If anybody's been recruited andis like a true division one
athlete, it's Sam Hillgas,right?
Yeah.
But it's funny because likehe'll hear that sometimes he'll
be like.
What does that even mean?
Like how do you quantify that?
Like, how do you quantify a Done talent?
And there's the guy, this is howyou quantify it when they have D
one offers on the table.
(26:42):
There you go.
That's how you quantify.
That's the biggest thing.
So there's a coach who wrestledivision one.
He is up, he's up on like theVirginia, like up top of
Virginia and his name is JohnFian.
Phenomenal wrestle, divisionone.
Phenomenal athlete, phenomenalcompetitor, great coach.
We're talking about some of thekids he's got and and he's has
some true kids who can wrestleat the division one level.
But we were just talking aboutkids in general the other day,
(27:03):
and I was like.
What do these kids think?
Like that they're just randomlydon't have D one offers, so they
just walk onto a D one team andchanges like, and I'm not trying
to be mean to the kids, it'sjust hey, if he's not talk, if
the coach is not talking to you.
Then that, that's a red flag.
Go somewhere where somebodywants you, not somewhere you
wanna be.
And I know that's so hard to saybecause it's like maybe you
(27:25):
don't want to a hundred percentbe at Lynchburg, but like the
coach wants you there.
Or any school insert any otherschool, maybe it's man I'm like
80% sold in that school, butthat coach is a hundred percent
sold on me.
Or you go down to Penn State orIowa, or West Virginia or vtech
and you're like.
Oh, I didn't even get to see thehead coach, but like I love the
tech and I'd love to one daymaybe put a single on an
(27:47):
immediate media picture and it'slike.
Ooh I don't even think the coachwill know your name and that's
okay.
I'm not knocking those coaches.
Their job is different than mineand their, their paychecks drive
a different way.
So I'm not, I get it.
That's a, it's just different.
There's levels to this.
But it's always interesting tome, and I tell high school
coaches a all the time.
You, it's your job as a highschool coach to put your athlete
(28:08):
in the best situation for themto be successful at the next
level.
And if you don't do that, youfailed the kid.
It's so funny'cause I hear thissome parents all the time,
they'll say my son beat the kidthat's signing at Appalachian
State or at Cleveland State orColumbia.
Throw out a D one kid thatsigned.
(28:29):
Why didn't they offer I son?
Why aren't we getting those sameoffers?
Yep.
Your son might have D oneability, but does he have D one
character?
Does he have D one?
Yep.
Does he have a D one work ethic?
Yep.
Is he a D one teammate?
Does he have D one grades?
Yeah.
So there, there's just so manylayers how we talk.
I get it.
Like we have a really goodworking relationship with a
(28:51):
division one not too far fromhere in another state.
And they'll get emails from kidsall the time and they forward'em
to me.
They're like, Hey, this kid'snot bad.
Like he's a good wrestler, buthe is not gonna wrestle you and
we can't.
We can't tell him more times andit's I really commend this coach
'cause he's done a great job.
He's one of the best coachesI've ever seen in division one
wrestling.
(29:11):
It's he's I don't know why theykeep emailing me.
And it's, but somewhere alongthe way, whether it's a parent
or a high school coach, iskeeping that dream alive for the
kid.
And it's like they're trying toput the kid in, like the other
coaches are trying to put thiskid in a good position by
sending him my way.
But the kids are just so obtusebecause somewhere along the way,
whether it's mom or dad or highschool coaches are telling them
go wrestle.
If you're a true division oneathlete, and I'll, this is like
(29:33):
the.
Advice I could give to recruits98% or 99%.
And you probably agree if you'rea Division one caliber athlete,
you probably have beencommunicated with by a Division
one coach and it might not be abig one, right?
It might be a small piece, actschool, some small levels, at
least by the end of your junioryear.
(29:56):
Like it's not gonna justrandomly pop in where you are.
Done with your high schoolwrestling season and all these D
ones just start talking to you.
It's probably you're gonna hearfrom these people pretty before
you probably are walking oncampus your senior year more
times than not.
And it, it comes down to justbeing practical with your child
too.
(30:18):
Every five or six years, my wifeand I'll buy a new car.
And I'll always be like, let'sjust go.
Let's just go drive the Lexus.
We can't afford it.
Let's go drive.
Let's go drive the Cadillac.
And it's amazing how many timesI'll get into one of those cars
that are 20, 30, 40, 50,000 morethan I can afford, and I'll go.
(30:38):
I wouldn't spend the money forthis.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
This doesn't, I don't like thehead space, I don't like, I
don't like the technology.
Yep.
And I think parents need tounderstand that is get your kids
to look at every level.
Go visit a Lynchburg.
Go visit a D two.
Go visit an NI go visit a D one.
But if D ones aren't saying, wewant you to visit, if you have
(31:01):
to go through the admissionsoffice.
Yeah, exactly.
Yes.
Yeah there's a big problem inhow you're evaluating your
child, correct.
Instead of saying.
Let's figure out what theirvalue is and let's give them
some options where they havesome choices.
So I'll never, and I can say itlike with Lynchburg, right?
Like I think some people gottagive people, looks like a school
(31:22):
like Lynchburg, like a reallygood athletic department.
We have division one capableathletes on this campus in other
sports.
We win national championships ina lot of sports here and
wrestling to be next.
And it's our, we treat our kidslike division one athletes, like
Sammy Wrestle.
Division one is we have betterfacilities than some.
We have a nutrition station,right?
Like we have things here.
We have five or six full-timeathletic trainers.
(31:44):
We have three full-time strengthcoaches.
We have, a 30,000 square footweight room and multi-purpose
training facility.
12,000 square foot wrestlingfacility like we have.
National Division three and NCAACoaches of the Year, national
champions on staff.
Like we have things that, look Isay it all the time to kids, we
treat this like a division oneuniversity.
I just don't give you Divisionone scholarship, but this is
(32:06):
division one type wrestling.
And that's where I thinksometimes people are like, oh,
like we have these, some kids instate who are like, I don't
wanna wrestle division three.
And I'm like, I don't know, man,if you'd even start for me.
And I'm not being mean.
It's just you're not great yet,but it's this preconceived
notion that Division three islike a club.
And I'm like, no, we.
If you like, when people come onthis campus and they see the
high, the level that we careabout our athletics here at
(32:27):
Lynchburg, sometimes I evenforget, like I think we're at a
D one, a smaller division oneuniversity.
Now we're not like Penn Statemassive enrollment, but for
comparable enrollment size todivision ones, we'd be like top
of the pack for a lot ofdivision ones that have 2000
undergrad enrollment.
Like we, we crush it in thatdepartment.
That's so cool.
I'm so happy for you, my friend.
(32:48):
I'm proud of you.
I'm so thankful for ourfriendship and I love you to
death and I know you are justgonna tear it up there.
But thanks for coming back,sharing your story again and
sharing your new story.
And I know any coach or familyor student athlete that's
listening to this, take whatCoach Barber's saying to heart.
(33:10):
None of this is absolute.
And he's trying to get thatclear, this is about, it's about
finding that great fit.
It's about finding thoserelationships you want to take
you on your journey.
So thanks for continuing to doit, my friend.
Yeah.
Appreciate you, man.
What a great conversation.
Big thanks to Coach Vinny Barberfor the straight talk on
recruiting, communication, fit,and habits that move you up a
(33:33):
coach's list.
If this helped you, please makesure you follow, subscribe,
rate, and leave a quick reviewso more families and coaches can
find the show for weekly blogs,recruiting tools, my significant
recruiting books and journals,our launchpad classes to help
guide you through every step ofyour recruitment.
(33:53):
If you're interested in havingme come speak to your high
school organization, please govisit coach matt rogers.com for
all of our free resources andtools.
We're here to help yourrecruiting and coaching journey
get easier.
Until next time, stay focused,stay humble, and keep chasing
significance.
Welcome back to The SignificantCoaching Podcast.
I'm your host, Matt Rogers.
Today is part two with CoachVinny Barber head men's
wrestling coach at theUniversity of Lynchburg, and
we're keeping this basic anduniversal for every listener.
So don't think that you have tobe a wrestling family or coach
to really understand what we'regonna be talking about today.
This is for you no matter whatsport you're a part of.
(00:33):
This episode lays out whatactually moves a recruit up, a
coach's list.
Clear communication, consistenteffort, and habits that show who
you are when nobody's watching.
Coach Barber will break downfilm that helps, emails that get
read, social media that buildstrust, and the academic plan
that signals you are ready forthe demands of college.
(00:54):
We'll get practical, unfit, howto read a program's culture prep
for visits, how to carryyourself in conversations and
understand timelines.
And because Lynchburg isbuilding its first roster on the
road to odac competition in 2026, 27, you'll hear how a new
program evaluates charactercommitment and readiness.
(01:15):
For weekly blogs, recruitingtools, my significant recruiting
books, my launchpad classes, andhow to schedule me to speak at
your school or organization,head over to coach matt
rogers.com.
Now let's get into part two withCoach Vinny Barber.
You and I have been talkingrecruiting for a long time.
I'm really interested in,'causeI've been out of it in terms of
(01:38):
running my own program for 12years now.
So much has changed from atechnological standpoint.
So much has happened now withtexting and there's so many apps
out there and social media.
Are you hearing from parentsmore than you expected to?
Are you getting texts fromparents and social media things
more than you expected to?
Yeah.
(01:58):
Yeah.
I think,'cause I kind ofengineer that in a way.
So as I've kind, I say older asI've just aged past the way kids
communicate I've started likereally relying on Facebook for
parents, right?
I add every recruit's parents onFacebook'cause that gives me
some insight.
'cause the parents post thethings, the kids don't care,
think they care about yet,right?
Like homecoming or an a on apaper, which now that gives me
(02:20):
another touch point that I mightnot already hear from the kid.
I'd be like, Hey, I saw you guyswent to Disney.
I saw you did really good onyour project.
And they're always like, Iwonder how Coach knows, right?
It's'cause I care to know.
But that does open the door tohave more conversations with
parents.
I look at like social media as.
Extension of my coaching staffand myself, like Facebook is me
recruiting the parents in a way.
(02:41):
And if you go to my Facebookpage yeah, you see some of my
personal life in there, but it'spretty much about the program
and the way I am as a humanright, and the way I run my
program.
And so talking to parents morehas definitely become a thing.
I'm actually I'm like.
Trying it now because I thinkparents who wanna be involved,
like, why not have them involvedNow I'm good about setting the
boundaries, like as you do withfundraising or anybody outside
(03:03):
the team that's involved islike, how do you create a
boundary that they're not liketoo involved, but they're, they
feel good.
But I actually have a lot ofinteractions with parents and
building those relationshipsbecause they.
Let's face it, they're part ofthe decision process.
They are part of an alumni basein the future.
They're part of a fundraisingbase.
They have so many factors, and Iwant them to feel special that
they're sending their son tocome wrestle for Lynchburg.
(03:25):
And they have a stake in thegame too.
And they feel good about it,they feel good.
And I mean it's in longerinsight into how their child,
who their child is, and whotheir family is that we're
welcoming to our program.
That's really cool.
Is social media.
A good way for a kid to reachout to you to get noticed by
(03:46):
you.
Because one of the things Ialways warn kids on, it's real
easy for a coach now to click aheart.
I just sent you a message coachand Oh, they clicked a heart.
Oh, they followed me.
Yeah.
What does that mean to you whenyou favor a kid or follow a kid?
What's that?
Yeah.
I think, what's the reality ofthat?
I'm gonna, it's gonna soundlike, like scientific when I say
(04:08):
this, but I just was talking tomy assistant about it, right?
He's first time coaching and Iwas like, recruiting is not that
hard.
I'm not discrediting why I dothese things, but swiping up on
a kid's story and sending himlike that fire emoji.
Is like just a quick rush oflike dopamine and be like, coach
sees me.
And I don't, I'm notdiscrediting that.
That's, I do it because that'show you communicate with the
(04:29):
kids.
I have a desk full ofhandwritten letters.
I actually have some here that Igotta mail out, that though, not
as hard hitting anymore with thekids.
Right?
Sammy just went up and watched akid play soccer on a senior day.
We're not soccer coaches.
That the kid thinks that's cool.
But staying and meeting them attheir level is really important
to me.
(04:49):
So the parents see things we domore, the coaches see those like
old school recruiting and Ithink that there's never not a
time that's important, but fromthe kids standpoint and also.
It is easier for me.
You're sitting at home andyou're relaxing instead of
getting on the phone with thekids, which you can do when
you're driving.
That's still gonna be somethingwe do, but you're just like,
doom scrolling and you comeacross a recruits page.
(05:11):
Like that's helpful for me.
That now has become like a, theway to touch the have a touch
point with a kid.
It's like pretty easy.
It's like a low hanging fruit.
Yeah.
But you'd still be shocked onhow many don't do it.
Social media is like where wemeet'em.
That's that has become very asmuch as I, I feel like I'm an
old man when I say this as much,I hate that it has become
something that, we've had toadapt with.
(05:32):
I think you see some coaches getoutta the game now because
they're adverse to understandingthat, or they bring in really
young assistants who live there.
My assistant crushes it onsocial media.
All my assistants were young,first time coaches, they crush
it there.
And the social media footprint,it's that's what's cool.
You gotta be cool.
I gotta be somewhat cool andgotta have it.
Yeah.
I won't take credit for any ofthat, but it's something that
(05:55):
I've preached to you and yourstaff at Ozarks and I preached I
just did a keynote with 60coaches in Oregon.
And it's one of those thingsthat.
There's too many coaches thatdon't get that part.
It's the wow for the kids you'vetaken.
It might just be 20 secondsoutta your life, but you've
said, wow, that's cool.
Hey, great job.
Or, Hey, boom man, way to go.
(06:18):
Yeah.
And it's their social mediabecomes like the old school
Rolodex of notes.
Yes.
Like I get so much informationlike, and I'm not, again, like
college coach's life is superbusy, right?
Like between, like for my, forexample, the last three weeks I
put 10 hour days putting wallsup in this facility and getting
it ready.
The last thing I was doing waschecking results.
But while I'm going, while I'mhome for 20, 30 minutes and
(06:40):
waiting for dinner to be done,like I'm scrolling through
Instagram, it's oh, that kidwent five and two that weekend.
Ah, there's the result I waslooking for.
There's the.
Oh, he had homecoming or he didthis, or there's a picture of
him getting a good win or Ilearned more about him outside
of wrestling.
I think social media actually,as much as some people wanna
despise it as much as Isometimes do, it also has made
recruiting a more well-roundedlike approach and you can really
(07:04):
learn so much more if you justkinda let it like absorb you for
an hour a night.
Yeah.
I think what's changed in thelast 25 years since I started
doing this is you might have 50to a hundred recruits that are
on your radar that you know whothey are.
You've seen'em compete you knowwhat they're made of.
Today it might be 500 to athousand kids Oh, yeah.
(07:27):
That you've had a touch pointwith.
Yep.
And you can't, you don't havethe time in the day to do it
like we used to 25 years ago.
Yep.
You need that social media togo, Hey, I'm still here.
Still thinking about you.
Yep.
Nice job, because everyinteraction on social media is
recruiting.
Like we just posted ourhighlight video, a highlight
video today from our camp.
And it's like that is a touchpoint for recruiting.
(07:47):
Everyone just saw that everypiece of content is that.
And so it works both ways,whether we're interacting or
they're interacting with us onsocial media, like that's huge.
And then, the, I see how this isgonna make me feel like I'm like
a hundred years old.
I see some knucklehead stuff onsocial media though.
So that's one thing I tell kidsbe careful what you're posting,
right?
I see some kids posting thingswhere I'm like, man, I wish I
(08:08):
didn't know that about you.
I wish that was like somethingyou didn't do.
I wish that was, kids havegotten a lot better at it
though.
Like usually kids you post on,so I'll never run across those
kids'cause I just don't attractthose types of kids to our
program to begin with.
And they, I think kids havegotten better and like when I
was coming through, like thingsI posted in college, idiot, I
was a big old idiot.
But it was new.
That was when Twitter and allthat stuff was just coming out.
(08:31):
Now it's like these kids are alittle smarter.
They know what to keep private.
But it's just a big insight andI think we just had a call with
our recruiting software about anhour ago, and integrating social
medias into their profiles was abig one, right?
Trying to get their social mediais so big.
It just, I always look, I'mlike, what are the schools do
they follow?
And, oh, that's my competition,right?
Oh, that school's not following'em.
They don't have a chance.
And I know that might not be theway to look at it, but I do, I
(08:53):
look and say Hey, so and so isnot following this recruit that
we're on.
And they're not even in thepicture.
Yeah it's.
I was gonna ask you thisquestion in the last segment,
but this is a really goodtransition to get that topic
back up.
Social media is theirindependence.
In terms of where their identitytrying to figure out what their
(09:15):
identity is next.
Yep.
You talked about in the lastsegment about that first two
weeks, you want kids to figureout college.
You wanna figure out how are yougonna do this?
How are you going to, are yougonna get your butt up at 6:00
AM to start practicing 6:00 AMHow important is that they try
(09:37):
and figure out and learn whattheir identity is without their
parents before they get to you?
Is that even possible?
I think it's hard.
I think that becomes reallyhard.
It's interesting because, Ithink too, kids, like when I was
growing up, I wanted a lot offreedom.
I think now as.
At times it's just changed.
(09:57):
I think parents have become alittle bit more friendly with
their kids, where you know, notthat I come from a very strict
household, but my parents weremy parents.
I didn't go, I didn't do some ofthe things kids do with their
parents nowadays.
I think it takes, a unique kidto try to go find out.
There was a kid I was recruitingin Illinois and unfortunately I
just don't think he wants tocome this far away, but, he
started his own littlelandscaping business and he was
(10:18):
like, really crushing life.
And I was like, man, those kidsare really hard to find nowadays
to do those types of things.
But finding their identity asthemselves is important.
Some of the things that I lookat there is, and it, this is a
weird one'cause I want theparents to come up on the visit
with them for sure, but it'skids who showed up to the
prospect camp without theirparents, who makes the decisions
like, Hey coach, I'm ready tocome visit.
(10:39):
I'm gonna let my parents know.
Or, Hey, my mom's still fillingout my applications.
I still get that sometimes, likeparents fill out the
applications and actuallyincreasingly more than I ever
have.
And I used to have a rule.
If your parents are filling outthe application, I ain't
recruiting you.
But I think the day and age weare, parents are more involved
and.
It makes it hard to stand onthat hill.
(11:00):
I don't wanna die on that hillanymore, but it is really
important for kids to start to,to find their own, because, and
that's what I tell kids on therecruiting process, and I beat
around the bushes.
Hey, when you get here.
You're on your own for good,right?
Like you're, this is it.
And find that over the summer,right?
Find that, start doing your ownlaundry.
I tell'em all, start doing yourown laundry, right?
That's the one thing you'llthank me for when you get here
(11:20):
is I did my own laundry, so Igot my closure cleaned, right?
And that's a small one.
And but it's a big one.
But finding their own identitynow and becoming.
Like a man now is importantbecause again, there's so much
change about to happen incollege, and I got kids that I'm
recruiting from Minnesota.
There's gonna, there's not kidsfrom 20 minutes down the road.
They're here, you're going far.
You got new responsibilities,new people.
(11:41):
You got a roommate, you mightnot know you got a coach that
you're feeling out for the firsttime and you're on your own.
So having some independence isreally important.
Hypothetically, I'm a16-year-old wrestler in Ohio.
Done really well.
Heard great things aboutLynchburg.
(12:02):
I'm gonna make state my junioryear again for this, the second
time.
How do I let Coach Vinny Barberknow that I'm interested in you?
What's ideal for you to get akid's information get to know
that they're thinking about you.
I talk to kids about this allthe time.
Every time I go to a highschool, it's guys, you think
there's.
You know so many kids in thecountry who wrestle, so many who
(12:24):
wanna wrestle in college andthen just like I'm very honest
with the kids, like there's somecoaches you just don't recruit.
So if there's 175 division threeco or 145 division three college
wrestling programs, I'm justgonna say 45, might never even
get outta their office and hopethe kids come to them.
So there's only a hundred to 200coaches, including assistants
that are ever recruiting.
So 200 and there's probably,sometimes I'll run it like this
(12:46):
weekend I had a hundred kids inhere, right?
So the numbers just are.
Against us as coaches.
So I always say reach out,right?
I want the kid who reaches outand something that I've seen
more increasingly, like kidsmake little mock resumes and I'm
like, that's cool, right?
They email it to me and I'mlike, that's cool.
You go up.
You might not be that good atwrestling right now, but I like
that, right?
You're, I'm gonna worry aboutyou going to class.
(13:07):
I get kids who reach out to meon social media.
One thing I advise is try not touse slang or, and talk in
complete sentences when you'redoing that, right?
The biggest one, and this is theone, like some weird analogy,
but it's almost like datingrecruiting's.
Almost like dating.
You put so much time in it andthen you just get ghosted when
the biggest pain in the butt forme is I looked at it the other
(13:29):
day.
I messaged all the kids tryingto push, get some visits and
stuff.
So I got this app where I likecan send the messages over and
over, but I track analyticallywhere, how much have they
responded?
And I got seven or eight kidswho we want, and I don't want to
give up on, they've neverresponded to me.
And then one of them today said,coach, I'm sorry I've seen these
messages.
I've just been busy.
And I'm like, how busy?
(13:50):
And I need him'cause he's a bigguy and it's a little far hard
to find big guys out here, butit's like kids don't, and I'm
not knocking the kid I used toget so mad at the kids, they
don't get it right.
They're 17, 18 years old.
They don't get it.
I can't expect them to thinklike you.
And I think, but I say it allthe time.
If you are not about a coach,just let'em know.
(14:10):
Hey coach, I'm not interested.
You can't let a college coachtext you three times with no
response.
You can't have three methods ofcommunication with no response.
Yep.
That's, yep.
They don't understand what thatdoes to your mentality about
them and the impression thatthey're building in your head.
And I use this analogy, youtalked about dating.
I use this all the time.
I just tell kids, I go, if agirl reaches out to you, you're
(14:34):
a boy and a girl reaches out toyou, or you reach out to a girl
and you say, Hey, love to go tothe movies with you.
Silence.
Yeah.
Day two, silence.
Day three, silence.
What is your, what do you thinkthat girl is thinking about you?
Yeah.
She obviously doesn't wanna goto the movies with me.
Obviously she doesn't like me.
Okay.
Yeah.
(14:54):
Guess what happens when you dothat to a coach?
Yeah.
Same thing.
Who sent you a text?
Say, Hey, I love you.
Can we set up a time to talk?
Yep.
And it's funny.
We have the number one schoolI'm gonna recruit against is
about 45 minutes away.
Me and that coach are reallyclose.
He's runs a great program, butwe talk about recruits.
We're good buddies.
We've been buddies since Istarted Coach and he was at a
different school like, and so wetalk about it and I'm like, Hey,
(15:16):
and we'll always recruit thesame kids, like we're always
gonna recruit.
I said, so and so you talk tohim, he says.
Doesn't answer me.
I said, me neither.
And we're always just we don'twanna deal with that.
Or like I would you, yeah.
And I say to kids too'causesometimes, and I care about
kids, I wanna see'em do well.
Like a kid will come across mydesk sometimes and be like, Hey,
I want to be like ameteorologist, right?
(15:36):
And I'll be like, Hey, PlymouthState is division three
wrestling.
And they're really good in thatfield academically.
'cause there's not a lot ofoptions for that.
But I think like sometimes thatalso counteracts itself where.
We might see a kid, like if Igot a good coaching buddy, and
it's man, this was my experiencewith the kid.
Like coaches talk, like we'renot like cutthroat division one
people where we don't talk aboutrecruits like we talk, we know.
(15:59):
And no, every time that Icommunicate with a recruit is
another opportunity for me towin them over just as much as
every time that they communicatewith the coaches, another time
they could lose thatopportunity.
And I don't wanna, I always lookat recruiting that they hold all
the power.
I know that might sound weird,but I think a lot of coaches.
Live by this.
Like I can do more for them thanthey can do for me.
No, they can do for me.
That's why I'm recruiting them.
(16:20):
I wanna help them.
And it's transactional in thatregard.
But like the kids hold the powerin the whole recruitment
process, definitely at thedivision three level, because I
don't have any money to offerathletically and I like it that
way.
But they ha they almost gottaown that a little better.
And communication is key, right?
Like communication and justgrowing up.
(16:41):
Like the last thing I like tosee is a kid commit to another
school after I'm recruiting himfor three weeks and he, or three
months.
And he doesn't even tell me.
I'm like, man, I thought we werecool like that, right?
I thought we were buddies.
It's stuff like that.
And I just think sometimes kidsdon't recognize that.
Yeah.
Yeah, I told one of my kids lastnight, I go, you're probably
gonna have 18 or 20 coachesmaking you an offer here.
(17:01):
When we're all said and done.
I know this is gonna be hard tohear, but I'm gonna tell you
this right now.
You're gonna call every one of'em once you make the decision.
Yep.
They put a ton of time into youand they wanted you, they
wouldn't have offered you ifthey didn't want you.
Yeah.
They see you as a part of theirfuture.
Make the phone call.
Don't send a text, don't send anemail.
Make the phone call and say,coach, thank you.
(17:21):
There's a place that's a littlebetter for me and maybe a little
better money, and, but I justwant you to know how much I
appreciate you.
Yeah.
Does that, doesn't that makeyour day when you get that?
Oh yeah.
Even though it's heartbreaking.
Oh, it's awesome because I'lltell you, I want these kids to
be successful.
So that's happened to me before.
And I'll look across at thenational tournament and see that
kid and be like, Hey, good luck,man.
(17:42):
I like that, like me.
I like that.
I don't wanna be mad at an 18 to22-year-old.
That's just weird at 35, 33years old, right?
Yeah.
So I and I want that for kids.
And also, like I tell Sammy,rarely will I ever say the door
closes on a kid.
Yeah.
'cause sometimes they might gosomewhere they think at 18 is
the right choice and then 20rolls around and they're like,
Hey, it's not, or we had a kid,my last national qualifier at
(18:03):
Ozarks, he didn't choose theOzarks.
He was very good about it.
Went to a different school forsome different reasons last
year.
Said, Hey man, I wanna wrestlefor you.
I knew I should have back then.
I was like, that door neverclosed, made it became my last
national qualifier.
He was actually the assistantcoach there now.
Great kid, but it's like nowthat I have master's degrees
here, a kid I recruit at 18.
I'm gonna try to get him here asmaybe a ga as maybe the used his
(18:26):
last year, whatever it is.
Like I keep a running list on myphone of like recruits we've
missed out on.
I just check and see if they'restill wrestling or what happens.
And not like illegally.
It's but hey, maybe he's in theportal.
I've talked to that kid and itended well.
Now when they just ghost me.
It's it's the bridge has beenburnt a little bit.
I don't, and I know it's hard tosay'cause they're underdeveloped
(18:48):
brains at 17, 18 years old, butI'm like, nah, I don't.
That ship has sailed.
Yeah, and social media makes itso much easier now, we have
texting, we have social media.
You can go so easy.
You don't have to tell nobody.
You could just text a coach.
I found another option.
Be like, oh, you don't even haveto, I don't even have to hear
you say it.
At least you demonstrated somelevel of respect.
Some level of We put into eachother was valuable.
(19:09):
Yep.
Correct.
I just had a 45 minute phoneconversation with a kid I
recruited 20 years ago that wentto another school.
I wanted the kid more thananything.
He's a lawyer now.
He's got his own family.
We connected through LinkedInand we talked on the phone.
He goes, coach, I would've lovedto play for you, but your school
didn't have some of the things Iwanted, but, and I was like.
Hey man, I completelyunderstand, but I'm so still so
(19:30):
proud of you.
Look what out with your wifeoff.
I get, I got this recruit I usedto, I recruited at the Ozarks.
He was at another school inArkansas that he transferred
out.
When he was transferred.
I re recruited him and now he'she'll send me recruits now that,
because he's from New Jersey andI'm on this side now and he's
Hey.
And we actually just landed akid the other day because of
him, and I'm like, that works.
Like it just wasn't a fit forhim is all.
There may not be a betteranalogy than for coaches and
(19:51):
athletes to understand that therecruiting process is a long
journey that's gonna continuelong after you graduate college
if you do it right, if you thinkabout that mindset, right?
Correct.
Yeah, so I love that.
Coach.
This has been awesome.
I haven't asked this question.
I don't think of any guess anycollege coach before, but I
wanna get your thoughts on it.
(20:12):
I usually ask about, you've doneso much already, given advice
for parents and recruits.
Yeah.
What's your advice to highschool coaches about the
recruiting journey?
What do you wish?
Yeah.
It's, they were doing andthinking about.
So I think what's reallyimportant for high school
coaches, and I'm pretty brashwhen I say this.
I spoke at like an Arkansasthing and they never had me back
(20:33):
'cause of this like an Arkansascoaches convention, but all the
coaches want, they asked me,what do you look for in a
recruit?
And I think they wanted thisvery easy oh, when he moves his
hands in his feet, he does this.
When he does this, he does that.
And wrestling related.
And I was like.
I need somebody who's comingfrom a program where their coach
is like real with them.
I think sometimes high schoolcoaches, get really caught up
(20:57):
in, in where they can send theirkids and it becomes like a
weird, oh, I sent my kid overto.
University of Northern Iowa.
Now me and Schwab are like thisand it's are you, is that why
you did it?
So you said to that coach, we'rebuddies and you can get a beer
with him every now and again, soyou can post about it.
I want the coach.
(21:17):
There's a lot of coaches that Irun into now out here where it's
like, Hey, I got a kid for you.
And we will sit down after hewrestles for me or and it
started more at the Ozarkstowards the end.
But I can tell out here somecoaches just want the best for
their kid.
Yeah, like I've connected with,there's some coaches out here
that I'm really not superinterested in building
relationships with right nowbecause they're more on the what
(21:38):
can you do for me, type.
Thing rather than the coaches.
What can you do for them?
What can you do for their kids?
And it's I want the coaches whorecognize that it's not about
wrestling, right?
Like I want the coaches who haveme and like we, we built some
really good relationships.
The best coach in the state, oneof the best coaches in the
state, both coaching stacks,one's skyline and one is
(21:59):
Grassfield.
They're like number one.
Number two, arguably eitherone's the best.
And we go out to their highschools a lot, built really good
relationships with them.
And they just say we respectwhat you do out there.
We respect what you're building.
They don't even care if we'redivision three, division one, if
we have money, if we have not tolike, Hey, this kid will be good
for you.
Rarely does it even come uplike, oh, they wanna go.
Do you want the kids have thatallure, but I want coaches and
(22:22):
coaches need to level with theirkids and sometimes have the hard
conversation like.
Division one Athletics right nowis such a cutthroat space.
The Division one dream is dead.
I believe the Division one dreamis dead.
I know that sounds crazy to say,but like to say, I'm a fringe
Division one wrestler and I'mgonna walk on and the coach is
gonna spend time and develop me,and I'm gonna win a national
(22:43):
championship on my senior year.
He's gonna pay five kids at thesame weight in that same five
years that you're there tryingto do that thing.
Just the way, it's just the wayit is now.
Yeah, it is.
And and if they're not, then theprogram's probably not all that
successful.
There's such, there's no, notmuch not much parody there,
right?
Like you're either paying kids alot of money or you're not
having success.
(23:03):
And their job is to find thebest kids in the country from
California all the way to NewYork.
And you could be in Montana,right?
Yeah.
So I, I want coaches whounderstand that picture, and
they don't really ask me whattechnical things do my kids need
to work on.
That's the question that comesafter they commit.
Hey, coach, he's committed toyou.
How can I get him better andready for your room?
(23:24):
That's a down the road question.
The question the things that Iwant these coaches hammering me
on now is like.
How are you gonna help my kidbecome great at life?
And the coaches who find morevalue in saying, I'm sending my
kids to wrestling college forfour years at a place where they
can be successful academicallyand athletically, versus those
singular signing day posts whenyou've got your arm around them
(23:46):
and there's three division onehats on the table, and that's
your claim to fame.
And so I know that's along-winded answer.
I hope that makes sense.
But I need, I I only recruitfrom programs that send kids to
division three level on a, ornon-scholarship programs on a
consistent basis.
And I don't mean that as like topush them out.
It's like they get it right.
Like there, there's a club intown.
(24:07):
He wasn't too interested inhaving me out or any division
three coaches, and I'm like.
Why?
Yeah.
Like why?
Fuck, you have to lose.
Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
And that's what I thought.
And now I'm just like, okay, Iprobably won't ever get a kid
from that club and I'm okay withthat because the other thing
that co high school coachesdon't realize sometimes is like
the athletes you produce.
(24:30):
Have had for a few years becomewho you are in your belief
system of wrestling.
So there's a really good buddyof mine, Willie Hilton out there
in North Carolina.
I'll take his best kids down tohim.
Maybe he is not his best kidsbecause that guy's a great coach
and he knows what he's talkingabout and he instills the right
things in his kids and he wantsthe best for them.
There's some other coaches whereit's.
I wanna take their best kid'cause they don't think highly
(24:51):
of division three or they'regonna come in with this sense of
arrogance.
It's like realizing like I'mrecruiting you to high school
coach.
You're my first you're one ofthe first people I look at
personally as a high schoolcoach.
Like I look and see what programare they coming from, what kind
of values are being instilled,what kind of things are they
teaching their kids?
Yeah.
Not just in wrestling, but likehow important is it then for
them to match the kid up withthe correct college fit?
(25:13):
Or how important is it for themto hang Penn State's wrestling
banner from their gym?
I, it was always a pet peeve ofmine when a high school coach
would call me and say, Matt, Igot a kid for you.
Yeah.
Like this is the perfect kid foryou.
I'm like, you've never been inmy gym.
You've never seen him practice.
Yep.
You have no idea what our systemis offensively or defensively
(25:34):
and you think you've got a kidfor me.
Yep.
I always tell high schoolcoaches, if you're gonna call me
about a kid, say, Hey, Matt.
I got a kid I think can play atyour level.
Yep.
Would you evaluate them for me?
Yeah.
Would you gimme some feedbackand let me know if we're right,
if we're wrong, or what we needto be looking at differently?
Yep.
So now that person wants to be apartner with me.
Now that person wants to learnabout my system and how I teach.
(25:59):
Yeah.
Instead of trying to tell mewhat kid's gonna fit, how are
you?
No.
And that, that is, that's huge.
It's like I get this one a lot.
Coach.
He's a D one talent.
What's a D?
What's a D one?
Talent.
What does that mean?
That's true.
What does that one mean?
I dunno what that means.
I swear like my assistantwrestled four years, division
one, one of the best.
He was like the number one highschool recruit coming out of
(26:22):
high school into college hissenior year.
If anybody's been recruited andis like a true division one
athlete, it's Sam Hillgas,right?
Yeah.
But it's funny because likehe'll hear that sometimes he'll
be like.
What does that even mean?
Like how do you quantify that?
Like, how do you quantify a Done talent?
And there's the guy, this is howyou quantify it when they have D
one offers on the table.
(26:42):
There you go.
That's how you quantify.
That's the biggest thing.
So there's a coach who wrestledivision one.
He is up, he's up on like theVirginia, like up top of
Virginia and his name is JohnFian.
Phenomenal wrestle, divisionone.
Phenomenal athlete, phenomenalcompetitor, great coach.
We're talking about some of thekids he's got and and he's has
some true kids who can wrestleat the division one level.
But we were just talking aboutkids in general the other day,
(27:03):
and I was like.
What do these kids think?
Like that they're just randomlydon't have D one offers, so they
just walk onto a D one team andchanges like, and I'm not trying
to be mean to the kids, it'sjust hey, if he's not talk, if
the coach is not talking to you.
Then that, that's a red flag.
Go somewhere where somebodywants you, not somewhere you
wanna be.
And I know that's so hard to saybecause it's like maybe you
(27:25):
don't want to a hundred percentbe at Lynchburg, but like the
coach wants you there.
Or any school insert any otherschool, maybe it's man I'm like
80% sold in that school, butthat coach is a hundred percent
sold on me.
Or you go down to Penn State orIowa, or West Virginia or vtech
and you're like.
Oh, I didn't even get to see thehead coach, but like I love the
tech and I'd love to one daymaybe put a single on an
(27:47):
immediate media picture and it'slike.
Ooh I don't even think the coachwill know your name and that's
okay.
I'm not knocking those coaches.
Their job is different than mineand their, their paychecks drive
a different way.
So I'm not, I get it.
That's a, it's just different.
There's levels to this.
But it's always interesting tome, and I tell high school
coaches a all the time.
You, it's your job as a highschool coach to put your athlete
(28:08):
in the best situation for themto be successful at the next
level.
And if you don't do that, youfailed the kid.
It's so funny'cause I hear thissome parents all the time,
they'll say my son beat the kidthat's signing at Appalachian
State or at Cleveland State orColumbia.
Throw out a D one kid thatsigned.
(28:29):
Why didn't they offer I son?
Why aren't we getting those sameoffers?
Yep.
Your son might have D oneability, but does he have D one
character?
Does he have D one?
Yep.
Does he have a D one work ethic?
Yep.
Is he a D one teammate?
Does he have D one grades?
Yeah.
So there, there's just so manylayers how we talk.
I get it.
Like we have a really goodworking relationship with a
(28:51):
division one not too far fromhere in another state.
And they'll get emails from kidsall the time and they forward'em
to me.
They're like, Hey, this kid'snot bad.
Like he's a good wrestler, buthe is not gonna wrestle you and
we can't.
We can't tell him more times andit's I really commend this coach
'cause he's done a great job.
He's one of the best coachesI've ever seen in division one
wrestling.
(29:11):
It's he's I don't know why theykeep emailing me.
And it's, but somewhere alongthe way, whether it's a parent
or a high school coach, iskeeping that dream alive for the
kid.
And it's like they're trying toput the kid in, like the other
coaches are trying to put thiskid in a good position by
sending him my way.
But the kids are just so obtusebecause somewhere along the way,
whether it's mom or dad or highschool coaches are telling them
go wrestle.
If you're a true division oneathlete, and I'll, this is like
(29:33):
the.
Advice I could give to recruits98% or 99%.
And you probably agree if you'rea Division one caliber athlete,
you probably have beencommunicated with by a Division
one coach and it might not be abig one, right?
It might be a small piece, actschool, some small levels, at
least by the end of your junioryear.
(29:56):
Like it's not gonna justrandomly pop in where you are.
Done with your high schoolwrestling season and all these D
ones just start talking to you.
It's probably you're gonna hearfrom these people pretty before
you probably are walking oncampus your senior year more
times than not.
And it, it comes down to justbeing practical with your child
too.
(30:18):
Every five or six years, my wifeand I'll buy a new car.
And I'll always be like, let'sjust go.
Let's just go drive the Lexus.
We can't afford it.
Let's go drive.
Let's go drive the Cadillac.
And it's amazing how many timesI'll get into one of those cars
that are 20, 30, 40, 50,000 morethan I can afford, and I'll go.
(30:38):
I wouldn't spend the money forthis.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
This doesn't, I don't like thehead space, I don't like, I
don't like the technology.
Yep.
And I think parents need tounderstand that is get your kids
to look at every level.
Go visit a Lynchburg.
Go visit a D two.
Go visit an NI go visit a D one.
But if D ones aren't saying, wewant you to visit, if you have
(31:01):
to go through the admissionsoffice.
Yeah, exactly.
Yes.
Yeah there's a big problem inhow you're evaluating your
child, correct.
Instead of saying.
Let's figure out what theirvalue is and let's give them
some options where they havesome choices.
So I'll never, and I can say itlike with Lynchburg, right?
Like I think some people gottagive people, looks like a school
(31:22):
like Lynchburg, like a reallygood athletic department.
We have division one capableathletes on this campus in other
sports.
We win national championships ina lot of sports here and
wrestling to be next.
And it's our, we treat our kidslike division one athletes, like
Sammy Wrestle.
Division one is we have betterfacilities than some.
We have a nutrition station,right?
Like we have things here.
We have five or six full-timeathletic trainers.
(31:44):
We have three full-time strengthcoaches.
We have, a 30,000 square footweight room and multi-purpose
training facility.
12,000 square foot wrestlingfacility like we have.
National Division three and NCAACoaches of the Year, national
champions on staff.
Like we have things that, look Isay it all the time to kids, we
treat this like a division oneuniversity.
I just don't give you Divisionone scholarship, but this is
(32:06):
division one type wrestling.
And that's where I thinksometimes people are like, oh,
like we have these, some kids instate who are like, I don't
wanna wrestle division three.
And I'm like, I don't know, man,if you'd even start for me.
And I'm not being mean.
It's just you're not great yet,but it's this preconceived
notion that Division three islike a club.
And I'm like, no, we.
If you like, when people come onthis campus and they see the
high, the level that we careabout our athletics here at
(32:27):
Lynchburg, sometimes I evenforget, like I think we're at a
D one, a smaller division oneuniversity.
Now we're not like Penn Statemassive enrollment, but for
comparable enrollment size todivision ones, we'd be like top
of the pack for a lot ofdivision ones that have 2000
undergrad enrollment.
Like we, we crush it in thatdepartment.
That's so cool.
I'm so happy for you, my friend.
(32:48):
I'm proud of you.
I'm so thankful for ourfriendship and I love you to
death and I know you are justgonna tear it up there.
But thanks for coming back,sharing your story again and
sharing your new story.
And I know any coach or familyor student athlete that's
listening to this, take whatCoach Barber's saying to heart.
(33:10):
None of this is absolute.
And he's trying to get thatclear, this is about, it's about
finding that great fit.
It's about finding thoserelationships you want to take
you on your journey.
So thanks for continuing to doit, my friend.
Yeah.
Appreciate you, man.
What a great conversation.
Big thanks to Coach Vinny Barberfor the straight talk on
recruiting, communication, fit,and habits that move you up a
(33:33):
coach's list.
If this helped you, please makesure you follow, subscribe,
rate, and leave a quick reviewso more families and coaches can
find the show for weekly blogs,recruiting tools, my significant
recruiting books and journals,our launchpad classes to help
guide you through every step ofyour recruitment.
(33:53):
If you're interested in havingme come speak to your high
school organization, please govisit coach matt rogers.com for
all of our free resources andtools.
We're here to help yourrecruiting and coaching journey
get easier.
Until next time, stay focused,stay humble, and keep chasing
significance.
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