October 23, 2025 • 54 mins
🎙️ From Bobby Knight to Drexel: The Humble Leadership of Will Chavis 🏀
In this episode of The Significant Coaching Podcast, host Matt Rogers sits down with Will Chavis, Assistant Men’s Basketball Coach at Drexel University — and one of the most grounded, inspiring voices in college basketball today.
From being Bobby Knight’s first recruit at Texas Tech to a decade-long professional career in Europe, to developing NBA players and leading young men at every level — Coach Chavis’s journey is a masterclass in humility, resilience, and purpose-driven leadership.
He opens up about what he learned from playing for legends, how his international experience shaped his coaching style, and why he believes the chaos of modern college athletics (NIL, transfer portal, player movement) is actually an opportunity to lead differently — with empathy, honesty, and hope.
If you love real conversations about coaching, culture, and character, this episode will hit home.
🔗 Learn more about Coach Will Chavis: drexeldragons.com/staff-directory/will-chavis/553
💡 Explore tools and resources for coaches, athletes, and parents at CoachMattRogers.com
Learn more and connect with Matt Rogers here: https://linktr.ee/coachmattrogers
Listen on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, iHeartRadio, and all your favorite podcast platforms.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:10):
Welcome back to The SignificantCoaching Podcast.
I'm your host, Matt Rogers.
This week's guest is someone Icould have talked to for hours,
will Chavis, assistant men'sbasketball coach at Drexel
University.
One of the reasons I love doingthis podcast is because I'm
always learning everyconversation, whether it's with
a coach, an athlete, a collegepresident, or a professional in
(00:32):
another field.
It always makes me better, andmy hope is that it does the same
for you.
That these stories, theseperspectives and insights, open
your eyes to different ways ofthinking, to different cultures
and to the ideals that shape howpeople lead and grow.
Coach Chavis is the absoluteembodiment of that.
(00:54):
I was captivated by his storyfrom being the first recruit by
legendary coach Bobby Knightwhen he moved from Indiana to
Texas Tech, to his time playingprofessionally in Germany, and
ultimately realizing thatcoaching was his true calling.
But what really stuck with mewere the moments in between the
(01:15):
moments where his humility andperspective shown through.
You could just feel how muchgratitude he carries, how much
he values the game, and howdeeply he cares about the people
he's responsible for andaccountable to.
Coach Chavis brings such agrounded, yet hopeful voice to
the conversation about wherecollege basketball and really
(01:35):
college athletics as a whole isheaded.
He doesn't run from the chaosthat defines the Division One
landscape.
Right now.
The NIL, the transfer portalplayer movement dealing with
agents of 18 year olds.
Instead, he embraces it.
He sees it as a part of theevolving world we live in, and
(01:55):
he's choosing to lead.
Through it with integrity andpurpose.
I love that.
I learned so much from him.
There were so many times duringour talk where I just felt this
overwhelming gratitude to him,not only for the wisdom he was
sharing, but for the hope hegave me about the future of
college sports.
We need more people like WillChavis humble leaders who love
(02:17):
the game, love their players,care deeply about doing things
the right way And he fullyaccepts that we must adapt with
the times, and he is and heloves it.
I truly believe he's going toplay a big role in shaping what
the next chapter of our sportslooks like.
I hope the leaders at the NCAAlook to individuals like Will.
(02:41):
Who played college ball atdifferent levels, played
professionally, now have comeback in our coaching.
His insight and his wisdom areso valuable.
And after listening to thisepisode, I think you'll feel the
same.
Now if you wanna learn moreabout me or wanna reach out to
me to get advice on your child'scollege recruitment, or just
(03:01):
want to have a conversationabout how I can help your
school, your community, or yourculture, you can schedule with
me anytime@coachmattrogers.com.
I also encourage you to checkout my recruiting books and
classes.
My advice not only comes from20.
Plus years of experience, butalso from a deep devotion to
making sure young athletes andfamilies don't make the same
(03:23):
mistakes I've seen too manyfamilies make over the years,
including my own when I was ateenager.
And before I forget, I want tothank Coach Brian, BJ Johnson,
associate head, men's basketballcoach at Bingington University
for referring Coach Chavis tome.
I, the coaches and thepresidents and the adss that I
(03:43):
interview every week have beenso gracious to introduce me to
people that they trust and theybelieve in and see as
significant coaches and leaders.
And I'm thankful for BJ tointroduce me to Will and, and
I'm thankful to have will in mylife and thankful that I got to
have a conversation with him.
Alright, let's get to thesignificant conversation with
(04:04):
the phenomenal will Chavis.
Coach Javis, so great to seeyou, man.
Thanks for being on the show.
Sure, man.
Thanks for having me, man.
Man, you're in the thick of it.
I know you guys have been goinghard since April at that, at the
D one level, what are practicesstarting to look like right now
as we get closer to October 15this right around the corner and
(04:26):
you guys have scrimmages andgames coming up.
What are practices looking likein terms of intensity right now?
Yeah, they, they've been prettyintense.
We're rubbing it up trying to,stagger the days of hard
practice with moderate practice,with low practice.
But the guys are getting afterit.
We have five new guys.
We had nine returners, so it'sgoing to be competitive and
(04:50):
they're a competitive group,right now we're just trying to
get our habits down, get somepattern recognition with some of
the plays.
Yeah.
And just try to scaffold fromthere.
What's the hardest thing for youteaching?
You got five new guys coming inwith nine returnees, nine guys
that really know what practiceslook like and what you guys want
for that rhythm and pace.
What's the hardest part for youwith those five guys coming in
(05:13):
new?
Honestly, they've been great.
I think we've done a good job oftrying to teach the habits in a
way that they can learn'em.
We structured it in a way wherethe returns could also help them
as well.
So I think our returning guyshave done an awesome job of
integrating the new guys.
And they've done a, the new guyshave done a good job of
assimilating, trying to pick upthose habits of what we're
(05:36):
trying to do and what we want toaccomplish on the floor.
You okay if we talk Juco alittle bit?
Yeah, sure.
I know that's how you came upand then you went and played.
For an unknown coach, this BobRobert Knight guy, right?
Yeah.
Yep.
Talk a little bit about whatJUCO did for you and what that
meant to have those two years,not only to grow as a ball
(05:57):
player, but to grow as a youngman and to figure some things
out.
First.
Did that make a difference foryou?
Yeah, it did.
I so Juco, I came to juco.
It was an interesting path forme because.
I never would've expected to gojuco.
I was an honor student.
Like I never I never thoughtthat would be my route, but the
stigma back then was juco guysthat didn't qualify.
(06:18):
It was a different stigma thanwhat it is right now.
Right now in JUCO you have a lotof freshman qualifiers just
because of the transfer portal.
But my freshman year, I startedout at the University of New
Hampshire, which was in theleague with Drexel.
Yeah.
It was America East back then,but all the teams that are in
the CAA were mixed in HofstraDelaware back then Northeastern,
(06:39):
so they all were in the AmericaEast.
So I started out there, NewHampshire with Jeff Jackson's
the head coach.
After my freshman year, Jeffdecided to leave he took another
job at Vanderbilt with KevinStallings.
I had an opportunity to try togo with Jeff.
He came to my dorm and tried toconvince me to go, but I felt
(07:01):
it'd been better for me just to,to see what was out there.
So I decided to transfer.
Back then it was when youtransfer, you had to sit out a
year.
So it came down to UNCGreensboro with coach Dempsey
and Coach McCaffrey, who's atPenn right now.
And Tennessee State, which wasFrankie Allen and Coach Monarch.
(07:24):
I chose Tennessee State and Ihad to sit out that year.
So that year I set out FrankieAllen gets fired.
Of course he gets fired and itis not funny, but it's just my
luck that he would get fired.
Yeah, it's, none of this isfunny.
It's just like when it rains, itpours, doesn't it?
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
(07:45):
So my coach resigned my freshmanyear.
Maybe it was me, it just, it'sbad.
My, my coach got fired after myfreshman year too, man.
So I, I know where you're at.
Yeah.
So I had to figure it out fromthere.
I initially was going to go toTyler Junior College in Texas.
Okay.
Coach Crutchfield was the headcoach there.
(08:05):
He's the coach at Omaha now andthe head coach at Omaha in
Nebraska.
He was the coach there.
And he was friends with ScottMonarch, who's at Grayson Junior
College right now.
And Scott was my assistant coachat Tennessee State.
So Scott got the, Scott sent meto Coach Crutchfield to Tyler.
(08:26):
A couple weeks later Scott getsthe job at Panola and he tells
crutch, I need, will, I need totake will with me.
So I ended up going with coachMonarch to Panola, Carthage,
Texas.
How was that?
I always say, I tell a joke, itwas probably 2,500 people in the
town, and I think 2000 of'emwere in the cemetery.
(08:48):
So it was a golden corral on thestrip, a Dairy Queen, and I
think a Walmart back then.
I hear it's a lot better now,but what a, what an easy
transition for a 19-year-oldgirl from Philly.
Huh?
Yeah, Philly inner city to NewHampshire, to dorm, New
Hampshire.
Then I go to Nashville,Tennessee, and then Carthage,
(09:10):
Texas.
Oh man.
This is why I do this for aliving because.
I swear to God, more kids makedecisions based on somebody
saying, Hey, I like you.
You should do this, thanactually thinking about what's
best for them and where, whatwould be, where they would be
happy and healthy and be in anenvironment they love.
But the other side of it, man,how much did you learn in those
(09:32):
two and a half years?
Yeah, I learned a lot.
I learned a lot because.
First of all, I didn't wannaleave either situation.
That's I just wanna make thatknown.
Like I didn't have a plan toleave New Hampshire.
I sat down and talked to the newincoming coach when they hired
him, and I think his style justdidn't fit the way, my, I
played, yeah.
(09:53):
He wanted to get up and downpress.
I wasn't that type of player tojust press the whole game.
I was more of a cerebral typepoint guard, like setting people
up.
Yeah.
Just pressing, just takes thethinking out the game.
Yeah.
So that didn't work out.
And then the other coach cameinto Tennessee State and the
first meeting I had with him, heasked me straight up, are you
staying or are you leaving?
(10:13):
So here I am, a 18-year-old kid,a man comes up and says, are you
standing or leaving?
Not Hello.
Not like, how are you?
Oh gosh.
So just off that initialfeeling.
I just said, I'm going.
So yeah, that's how, that'sbasically how it happened.
And what I learned was just tocontinue to try to get better.
(10:37):
Yeah.
I think every year after highschool, I just feel like I
continue to get better andbetter on the court and off the
court.
I just try to continue to workhard, and I just felt like good
things would happen.
Did you feel like there was somecontinuity by the time you
landed down in Texas?
Did you feel like you had acoach, you knew a little bit and
(10:57):
you understood where he wascoming from?
Did that help?
That's funny.
In Juco I'll even go back here.
In junior college, I had no ideawhere I was gonna land.
The first couple weeks in juniorcollege were really difficult
for me, but I, I was blessedenough to have my brother with
me, coach Monarch gave mybrother a scholarship.
(11:19):
My brother ended up gonnaColorado State playing for Buzz
Williams and Okay.
And Dale Laer.
Yeah.
But he was with me, so it helpedme out a lot.
But that, those first coupleweeks were really difficult.
And then it started to turnaround a little bit.
I started, we started to playgames.
It started to, I just startedgetting more comfortable with
what was going on.
(11:40):
I played the whole year injunior college with a torn
ligament in my thumb.
Oh my gosh.
As a point guard man.
How heck Yeah.
And it was my right hand, myshooting game.
Oh.
Yep.
Tell me about the difficultpart.
What was the hardest part thosefirst few weeks?
What obviously culture wise musthave been?
A dramatic change for you, evencoming from New Hampshire at the
(12:01):
time you were in New Hampshire.
Going down to Texas, small town,Texas.
Man, that's a huge culturechange.
What was the hardest part foryou that you feel felt like you
had to overcome?
I think the hardest part wasjust solitude.
It was like coming from Philly.
It's a big city.
Yeah.
Going down there, it was just, Ididn't have a car.
All the baseball team and thebasketball team, we shared the
(12:22):
dorms.
So it was like two bathrooms onEast side.
Yeah.
Shared a dorm with my brother.
So it was really like anadjustment in terms of what I
was used to having a dorm roomand just that difference in, in
demographic down there.
Also I didn't see a lot ofpeople that looked like me.
I would say.
I didn't see a lot of peoplethat dressed or spoke like me.
(12:46):
So just that, that change, justtrying to understand people, the
dialect, the language.
I had a difficult time justadapting into everything.
The food, chicken, fried steak,biscuits.
Yeah.
Like I wasn't used to thatstuff.
Healthy stuff.
Yeah.
Great.
Great for an athlete.
When you think about that, Iwould've come in with a ton of
(13:06):
preconceived notions.
And then when you're 18, 19years old, you must have thought
the absolute worst abouteverything as you walked out the
door there, when did you get,did, was there ever a point
where you got comfortablebecause you stayed in Texas
after that?
Yeah.
Different part of Texas,obviously a bigger city.
Yeah.
(13:26):
At what point did you startrealizing, okay, there's some
people here that.
I can trust, there's some peoplehere that I can get to know
better.
There's a bit of a melting potthat maybe I can bring to them.
Yep.
Is there some of that happenedin that year?
Yeah, exactly.
That's exactly what it was.
The diversity was definitelythere.
And I, like you said, I added tothat diversity, so I got to
(13:47):
learn from different peopledifferent aspects.
I tried different foods, so itwas really a learning experience
for me.
And like I said, the first weekswere difficult, but after that.
I got pretty comfortable when westarted playing games.
Yeah.
So like basketball for me wasjust like, like a savior, in
that environment.
Yep.
So we would practice, and I,like I said, I really had a
chance, the solitude allowed meto get better because I was in
(14:10):
college for two years, so thatmeans that I didn't have any
class really.
I took a couple classes to getmy associate's degree, but I was
already two years in school, soI basically had one class today.
Whatever the eligibilitystandard was, that's the CLA
amount of classes I had, and Iwould just stay in the gym.
In a weight room.
You can get really good withnothing else to do.
(14:31):
Almost makes you think, as acoach now, how do I create that
environment where there'snothing to do?
Do we take away their cellphones or computers and lock'em
into the gym?
But it's so hard to recreatethat now.
No, for sure.
And I was a worker anyway itjust gave me the opportunity to
really lock in and focus.
Yeah.
What doing I was, same way.
I was point guard too.
It was just like, okay, can Iget keys to the gym?
(14:52):
'cause it locks up at 10, 11,whatever it was.
I was like, just, yep.
I can't sleep before one in themorning, so let me go shoot, let
me go dribble, lemme go work onthe game, get in the weight
room.
So I was the same way.
What do you, at that point, didyou still feel like you were a
division one player?
Did you feel like.
You could play with anybody orwere you still have some doubts
(15:15):
on playing at New Hampshire andplaying at Texas Tech are two
different worlds.
At that point, where did youfeel like you were as a player?
Like I said, I felt, Idefinitely felt like I still was
a division one player.
It just was what level, comingthrough our gym.
I had two teammates with me.
One of'em transferred fromUniversity of Memphis, so a lot
of people were coming in,looking at him.
(15:37):
And then I had a six 10 guy fromMississippi.
I mean he had every power, fiveSEC, big 10.
He had every school in thecountry coming in looking at
him.
So I was getting lower levellooks.
But as the season went on, likeI said, I just continued to get
better.
Yeah.
I put a string of gamestogether.
I put 40 on 14th, straight Wow.
(15:59):
With like double digit assists.
So it was like, like I reallywent to I really went to work,
but again I couldn't, I reallybelieve I couldn't have done it
if it wasn't for my brotherbeing with me.
Is he older than you?
He's younger.
He's younger.
So he had your baby brotherthere with you.
Yep.
All right.
Yep.
And my baby brother had a lot ofopinions about how I should have
been playing and he I rememberone game and this game started
(16:23):
the streak we were playing atJacksonville junior college, and
I had one point at half time.
And we were losing by 20.
I ended up the game with, Iended the game with 41 points
and we won the game.
What the heck happened athalftime?
My brother.
My brother, me, my brother andI, we had a lot of choice words
(16:46):
for each other.
He basically called me soft andit just turned everything, like
just, I just turned it around.
I just went and killer mode.
The whole second half.
The trust your coach must havehad for you to have that second
half to say, Hey, nobody'sstopping me now.
Yeah.
(17:06):
That's, your coach must havebeen a part of that, even though
you were the point guard and youhad the ball in your hands, he
told me.
You were more of a structuredkind of guy.
Yeah.
What score?
40 is tough in 40 minutes.
Yeah.
Score 40 and 20.
Yeah, I can, I could alwaysscore.
Even in high school, my senioryear I was 26 in games, so it
was like I could always score.
(17:28):
But I, I felt I took pride inwinning as well, so whatever it
took to win the game, that'swhat I brought to the game.
Even.
Even at Tech it's the same, butlike whatever it took to win the
game, I was willing to do it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that, that 40 points in thesecond half was just, I don't
think coach had a choice becauseI was just so aggressive that it
(17:49):
just turned the whole gamearound.
If you're a coach, you're acoaching the guy, he, he's
getting the rebound, pushing theball, making threes, like
playing defense.
You get the hell outta the way.
That's good coaching.
You just get the heck outta theway and say just keep doing what
you're doing.
Yep.
We can't build an offense betterthan what you're doing.
Yep.
You must have scored on 70% ofthe possessions.
(18:11):
Yeah, it was insane, man.
I felt like I couldn't miss.
If that makes sense.
Yeah.
Every shot, I got three pointersoff the dribble.
Like everything.
Like about 10 threes in thesecond half.
It was just, I was justunconscious.
It doesn't make sense for me'cause I never had a game like
that, but I could see it throughyour eyes.
That makes a lot of sense.
And it helped me out because theteam was pressing.
(18:32):
Yeah.
Ru the guy that wanted to stayat New Hampshire, he wanted to
press to game team was pressing.
Maybe that's where you shouldhave been.
Nah, no.
Alright.
Tell me about getting recruitedby Bobby Knight.
I want to hear this story.
So basically it starts at thatgame.
So after that game again, I puta string of games together.
(18:56):
I just remember after that game,like a lot of Power Five schools
started calling my JUCO coach.
Yeah.
And I could hear him on thephone with him, like in the van,
like after the game in the van,I guess Word got out and like a
couple schools in Texas,S-M-U-T-C-U at that time, I know
that he talked to them for sureon the phone.
So I guess when that happens,other schools in that area
(19:18):
started to get involved.
So I guess they got word of itand yeah, man, it was just, it
was a shock because.
I had visits set up and I metwith a lot of coaches.
And they might not even rememberthis, but I still remember the
coaches that I met with, satdown with and talked to, and a
lot of'em are prominent coachesright now.
(19:39):
But when Coach Knight came, itjust was different.
I I didn't even know he was atthe game when we were playing
San Jacinto.
We were playing San Jack.
It was another one of thosegames.
They had the number one pointguard in the country.
And I had two points athalftime.
(20:00):
I ended the game like 32.
And Coach Knight was at thatgame.
That was that, again, it goesback to what I, what we needed
to win the game.
Yeah.
And I would have outbursts likethat.
If I felt like I needed to pickup the slack and scoring for my
teammates, but if everybody wasrolling and everybody,'cause I
was, there was 10 assistant injuco, so if everybody was
(20:23):
playing well, I would just, pickmy spots.
But if I had to force the issueto get everybody going I would
do that too.
But coach there.
Did your brother have an impactthat game?
That have to I, I was, it isfunny because my dad actually
came at halftime.
My dad showed up to that game athalftime.
(20:44):
I didn't even know he was downthere.
He showed up at halftime andthat kind of like also lit a
spark.
'cause I saw him in the crowdand we were losing the game.
So of course I don't want, Idon't want my dad to see me lose
this game and I don't care whowe were playing against.
That's, I always just felt like,man, I gotta change this game
somehow.
And that's what happened.
(21:05):
Tell me about your relationshipwith your dad.
My dad's was awesome, man.
He's the one that, he was areally good player.
I always hear everyone talkabout how good my dad was as a
player.
I never got a chance to see himplay, but I always hear the
stories, but he's the one thatspent a lot of time with me when
I was younger.
Teach me how to shoot abasketball, working on my form,
(21:27):
and just always talking to meabout, am I having fun playing
basketball?
That was his biggest thing.
Are you having fun?
And what did you learn?
That's great.
Yep.
So he never was really like along drive home type of dad.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
It was more like, and back itwas different.
Parents didn't go to games a lotback then.
(21:49):
Like I could count on probablytwo hands how many times my
parents were at in my games incollege, yeah, it's just
different.
It's hard in college though,especially when you're that far
away.
You got jobs.
Yeah.
It's expensive.
Nobody's paying for that trip.
It's coming outta your pocket.
Yeah.
I don't think my parents came,but I don't remember being,
them, being at more than maybeone or two games, my career.
Yep.
It was just too far away.
(22:09):
They worked all the time andYep.
They didn't have any money.
There was, it wasn't like theycould hop on a plane and come
see me play, exactly.
Yeah.
It was different.
All right, so for the.
For those 17 and 18 year oldsand parents that are listening
to this, how does Bobby Knightintroduce himself and what does
that first conversation looklike?
(22:30):
The first time I met him was atthe airport on my official
visit.
Okay.
So he came to the airport topick you up?
Yep.
Pat Knight.
Pat Knight came to Panola andwatched me at Open Gym.
And that day I remember I metwith SMU, I met with Southern
Illinois.
I met with.
Oklahoma was Matt, was that MattPainter back then?
(22:51):
Yeah.
Matt Painter.
Matt Painter was assistant coachfor Bruce Weber.
Yeah.
They both came to see me inPanola.
I was at, I was the head coachat Maryville University at that
time.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
Yep.
So I, yeah, Matt and I kindacame up at the same time.
Yeah.
So you were, that's very cool.
So Pat picked you up or Bobbypicked you up?
(23:11):
Bobby picked me up from theairport and, I just remember the
first thing, interaction I said.
He asked me how I was doing.
He was, he seemed really nice.
He was really nice, right?
So I'm like, this is not the guythat everybody's talking about.
He was really nice.
So he so I asked him, I said,coach, why, like, why you
recruit me?
(23:31):
He's ah, Chavis.
Called me Chavis already.
They didn't call me Will theyjust called me Chavis.
He said it's not the size of thedog, it's the size of the
fighting the dog.
And the rest of the car ride wassilent.
I'm just contemplating what heis saying.
Like, all right, what is thatlike?
All right.
I'm tough.
What?
Oh, okay.
(23:51):
But yeah, so he, that was anintroductory press conference
the same day.
So he picked me up on the sameday that he has his introductory
press conference to Texas Techfrom the airport.
So now being in this world, Isee like he made it a priority
to come pick me up when he wasliterally being introduced as
the head coach at Texas Tech.
(24:12):
You were priority number one forBobby Knight.
Yeah.
Isn't that amazing?
Wow.
That was, that's compliment,man.
No, for sure.
And looking back on it rightnow, I'm like, wow.
That was that was pretty good.
And that's where I first metChris Beard.
'cause Chris Beard was on ourstaff and he he was a young
coach, coached in Juco.
In Oklahoma.
Yeah.
(24:32):
Yep.
He was at the press conferenceas well.
Very cool man.
Very cool.
So car ride silence.
You get there and how does itgo?
It went well.
I don't, I went out with theguys.
It is funny because I went outwith the guys and with any
(24:53):
coaching change istransitioning.
Like they're trying to figureout if they're gonna keep the
players or not.
Like similar to my experience.
So it's just amazing.
That's where you end up.
You were in the middle of atornado, guys thinking about
leaving guys.
Not sure.
And they wanted to play forBobby Knight.
Not having any idea.
All they knew is what they sawon TV about him.
And you still made thatdecision?
(25:14):
Yep.
That's amazing to me.
Yep.
How many of those guys that youwent out with that night already
had made up their mind?
They were staying or leaving?
Two of them.
So you didn't know guys, youwere gonna have a team?
No I knew we were, have a team.
It was, there was, there werethree guys, other guys on that
(25:34):
visit with me.
Okay.
And they all committed as well.
So Power Kozinski.
Irma, Cuco, Irma, Cuco ended up,I think he's with the Brooklyn S
right now.
He ended up not coming to TexasTech because of the
international stuff back then.
Yeah.
With, and he ended up playing inTurkey, being one of the best
players at FSO, ER, one of thosebig teams, the Euro League
(25:55):
teams.
But yeah, he was supposed toplay with us as well.
But yeah, it was, and there wasother guys, like I said, Powell
was in France.
He was.
Polish Prince.
He was born in Poland, but livedin France, so he committed as
well.
And they both were JUCO guys.
So knew you, you knew you werecoming in with some size, some
(26:17):
guys that could shoot it.
Yep.
Irma played for for Chris Beard.
I think it was at Oklahoma orsomewhere like that.
Okay.
But he played for him.
And Powell played at Dodge City.
Juco in Kansas.
Yep.
And then K Powell ended upcommitting from Butler Junior
College.
Nick Valdez from it was a schoolin Colorado at Juco ended up
(26:42):
committing.
And I think that's it.
And then we, Andy Ellis stayedMarcus Sharp Shire Steed, Andre
Emmett Steed.
Mikey Marshall.
Yeah.
Like a lot of guys stayed.
I think it was like five or sixof'em that stayed, and he
brought in five of us.
So Bobby Knight was really nice.
First impression, when did youget to meet the real Bobby
(27:03):
Knight?
How long did that last?
Like coach, like he wasn't likethe yelling and all that stuff.
It was in practice.
Like in the games, he was reallylike calm and coached the game.
But he might got on the refs andyelled at the refs, but it was
rare that he was like yelling atus all.
It wasn't all the time.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
(27:23):
But for me, for me, I justremember one thing that stood
out to me because he questionedlike my toughness.
It was a loose ball in practice.
And he I didn't dive on thefloor for the loose ball, and he
stopped practice and he said heused some choice words.
(27:45):
He said, why did, he saidbasically, why didn't you dive
on the floor for the ball?
I thought you were from Philly.
And then he went on a tangenttalk.
He went right there, didn't he?
Yeah.
Then he went on a tangent andstarted talking about a guy that
he coached from Philly.
He was one of the toughest guyshe ever coached.
He's I just don't know.
He is I don't know.
You must be from the suburbs orsomething.
That's what he said.
So the next chance I got in thesame practice, loose ball.
(28:11):
I'm the first one to the floor.
Dove on the floor, got the looseball, had a tore my whole side
up.
It was strawberry red on theside, and he just ran over and
picked me up and stoppedPractice.
Told me like, that's what heneeds.
That's the intensity he needs.
So that was, that's how he wasthough, like he was a great
(28:33):
motivator.
Yeah, a great motivator.
Knew what buttons to push,didn't he?
For sure.
A hundred percent.
What did you learn playing forhim those two years, about your
game and about yourself, and alittle bit of, for foreshadowing
of who you are today as a coach?
I think it's, I think playingfor him shaped me as a player,
(28:56):
as a person, as a coach, reallyas a coach as well.
Because the one thing I learnedthat, that stuck with me is he
always used to say mental is tophysical is four to one.
And like I, I tell kids that tothis day when I was coaching my
high school team and McDevin,that was our saying.
That was our motto among otherthings.
(29:19):
I just learned that beingmentally prepared and being able
to concentrate is a real skillthat's valued in life and I just
see a lot of people are unableto do it and I think that he
allowed me to learn that to howto really concentrate even in
the heat of like battle heallowed us to.
(29:40):
And I think that was part of hismethod of coaching, like the
chaos a little bit in practice.
He just set an environment wherethose behaviors would allow you
to be successful in the game.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like being able to concentrate,being able to take instruction.
Like he really, he rarely used aclipboard.
If he did, he was breaking theclipboard.
(30:03):
He wasn't writing on it.
He just break the clipboardlike, but yeah.
He was just a basketball genius.
His mind was amazing.
Amazing.
You've had a great run yourselfas a coach before you, you got
back into Drexel.
What's that journey been likefor you?
Coaching club, coaching highschool?
(30:27):
What did you learn about thegame?
Being able to coach at thatlevel before you got to this
level?
Yep.
I started coaching in Germany,and I will, I wanna say this
right now, like I think Germanyhas the system down.
When you see all these playersthat are coming from Germany
(30:47):
that are making the NBA.
Yep.
And not only making the NBA,making an impact in the NBA.
Yep.
You see the success of theirnational team, European
champions, world champ, thesystem that they have in Germany
is something that everyone inthe world should look at and try
to model.
So I was a part of that systemas my first coaching experience.
I was coaching 16 and under.
(31:09):
Is that when you were playingtoo?
Yeah.
So that's how, explain a littlebit how that works when you're
playing pro overseas.
Yep.
So the club I was playing forpart of my contract to pay me
more money.
Me being an assistant coach, Isay that assistant coach, right?
Which means I come to practicesometimes I don't, like
(31:32):
assistant coach to 16 and underteam.
Because in Germany you couldhave many jobs where they don't
have to pay taxes on it, right?
So it was a mini job.
The coach end, like the teamwasn't great, so he ends up
quitting.
And when I say the team wasn'tgreat, the kids were amazing,
(31:53):
right?
But the record wasn't, ourrecord wasn't great in terms of
wins and losses, right?
So when he left, he just, hequit the team.
When he quit, I took over as thehead coach.
Okay?
So because I cared about thekids so much, I didn't even
really, I didn't care aboutwinning or losing.
(32:15):
All I cared about was that thosekids have a great experience,
right?
That they don't feel like lesserthan any other kid and they get
better at something.
That's all I focused on.
We lost games by 40, 50 points,but like after the game, I'm
still the happiest guy because.
(32:38):
Because we might have rememberedthe play and ran it.
There was some execution.
Yes, exactly.
And people got better, right?
Yeah.
So fast forward to the nextyear, just continuing to develop
those kids.
We ended up making like we,because in Germany you get
relegated.
(32:59):
So like even at the youth level,like you'll get relegated and
out of the J it is called theJBBL, the union win BA
Basketball league.
And if you get relegated, youcan't play in it.
So the top league for youth 16and under, you can't play in it
if you get relegated.
So we had to go to a tournamentto see if we qualify to play in
(33:19):
it again.
And man, I'll never forget thatfeeling, man.
We went to that tournament andthe same kids that were like,
couldn't win a game, were downon themselves.
We went to that tournament andwon and that was one of the best
feelings ever.
And I learned a lot as a coachright there.
(33:41):
Like a lot of times it's notabout people say Xs and Os with
the Jimmys and Joes.
Yeah.
But it is really about how muchyou pour into the kids and how
much.
They trust you and they trusteach other.
They bought into the heart oftheir coach.
Yep.
That's awesome.
And what was that, Hartensteinand Schroeder were the, were
(34:03):
those guys on the roster at thatpoint with you?
Yeah, so Dennis and Isaiah,they, we played against those
guys.
Okay.
You played against'em.
Okay.
They played against those guysand Hartstein, I think he had 40
and 20 on us.
Something crazy like that, itwas like he was ridiculous in
jail.
I can't even imagine him as a 16century year old playing
against, how do you match upwith that?
You don't trust me.
(34:23):
He averaged 40 points a game.
It was ridiculous.
And Dennis played a little bit,but he wasn't like he already
was moving up to the men's team.
You could quickly see that hewas going to be really good.
And there was a lot of otherguys too that, that, that played
really well, that, that areplaying on the national team
right now.
That I coached against or playedin a Euro league that I coached
against or playing in topleagues in Europe.
(34:44):
Yeah.
So it was really good to seethat, and it was really good for
me to have that experience as ayoung, I would say young, but as
a coach just failing forward, Iwould say.
Yeah.
If that makes sense.
Yeah.
I was allowed to fail forwardand I understood what it took.
How you had to mold the youngplayers in order to get them to
(35:07):
perform at their maximum to thebest of their ability.
Were you a father at that point?
Yes.
How much did that having a wifeand a kid, because you had just
the one at that point, right?
No, I had both.
You had both?
I both, yep.
The maturity that you have totake on as a dad when you have
(35:27):
kids that age.
How much of that affected you asa coach and your ability to
mature into the coach you aretoday, having kids that young
and doing it while you'recoaching, being a dad?
Yeah.
At that time, I think at thattime I didn't have my kids with
me, like my wife, my first wifeand I we got divorced the year
(35:50):
before I started coaching.
Okay.
So that also was like a savinggrace for me as well.
I was at that time, I was goingthrough a difficult time.
So to your point, it helped menot being with my kids, take
these kids as surrogate.
Yeah.
It's almost like they took theplace of my time and I was very
(36:11):
empathetic towards what theywere feeling as players as well.
They had some adversity.
That must have been hard, man.
Yeah, it was hard, but I alsoknew that I was doing it for a
reason.
Yeah.
And I really do feel like it wasa calling for me because I
didn't plan on doing it.
I didn't plan on doing it.
(36:32):
I remember I went back to TexasTech to work camp for Coach
Knight and Pat and Chris askinglike, why don't you get into
coaching?
I was like, man, I'm nevercoaching.
Said I'm never gonna coachbasketball.
I can't, like you put up withus.
Like I can't, I don't know if Icould do it right.
Yeah.
But this is coming from a guythat was playing professional.
Like I didn't think, I didn't, Iwasn't in that mindset.
(36:54):
I wasn't in a player's mindsetat that time.
But those kids in Germanychanged my whole outlook on what
it meant to be a mentor, afather, a coach all in one.
They were awesome, man.
That's great.
That happened.
The same thing happened for meonce you get a group of kids to
get that hook into you.
(37:14):
Yep.
And you get to see that lightbulb go on.
Yep.
You get to see them execute thethings you're trying to teach
'em.
There's not a better drug in theworld than that.
No.
You know what I mean?
Matt?
Matt, I remember the moment.
I knew that I wanted to coach.
Tell me.
So it was a kid and it is.
(37:35):
It is.
It was.
It was really emotional for mebecause it was just like the
light bulb went off for me.
Yeah, yeah.
Because it was a kid namedMarcel.
I was gonna leave it at that,like his name was Marcel, and
Marcel was a really good player,but he didn't have a lot of
confidence.
Yeah.
(37:55):
So we're playing an importantgame.
Against a rival by Right by isour rival.
We're at home, we're down twopoints.
And we have a side out ofbounds.
I called a timeout because youmove the ball forward in, in
Germany.
So I called timeout.
We get a side out bounds.
And I tell Marcel, I said,Marcel, because I felt like he
(38:16):
needed a confidence boost.
Yeah.
And he was playing really wellthat game.
So also he's our hot hand.
So I contemplated it.
I said, man, should I do this?
Because I don't want to kill hisconfidence.
I don't wanna take it away fromhim, but he's really playing
well.
I don't think anybody else couldtake this shot but him.
He is like our best player.
Yeah.
So I draw the play up and I tellhim, you're gonna take this
(38:40):
shot?
The kid said no.
Give it to Nico.
I said, no, you're going to takethis shot.
And then I made the whole team.
I asked every player, do youwant Martel Marcel to take this
shot?
They all said yes.
They said, Marcel, you could doit.
Take this shot.
So now at this point I'minvested.
If it goes wrong.
(39:01):
That's right.
I got a lot of cleaning up todo.
But everybody said they wantedhim to do it right?
Yeah.
So we could all rally around himif it doesn't work out and I
think that's part of it, right?
Being a part of a team, we canrally around if it doesn't work
out.
So I made up, alright Marcel,you're taking this shot.
I draw up a play.
Marcel gets the ball.
Three, two.
Shoots the ball hits off thebackboard and goes in, we win
(39:25):
the game.
Marcel Beelines to me, right?
And just jumps in my arm like itwas the most amazing feeling
ever, man.
Like I literally to this day,still think about that.
Man, like that really changed mylife right there.
That's the first hit.
Yep.
That's the first hit of thatdrug.
Yep.
Then you just want more and moreof it.
(39:45):
That is fantastic.
That's such a great storybecause it speaks volumes to
where you already were as acoach and understanding your
players, understanding thementality of the game and the
emotions that kids are goingthrough and what you saw in this
kid and how you wanted to helphim take that next step.
(40:07):
How old were you?
24.
No, I think I, at that time Iwas probably 31.
Were you that old at that?
Yeah.
But still, man, just to havethat thought process to go we're
gonna help this kid get to thenext level, we're gonna help him
get to that next point of wherehe is as a ball player.
That's amazing.
Yep.
And a kid, Marcel ended up goingto, he played well the rest of
(40:30):
the year.
Of course the bigger clubscouted him.
Yeah.
So Bamberg, which was a EuroLeague team at that time, ended
up scouting him and he I'llnever forget this, he came to
practice with tears in his eyesbecause he had to tell me that
he was going to bamberg.
And he was like, I don't want togo.
I'm not going.
(40:51):
I'm like, you're definitelygoing like I whatcha talking
about that's conversation.
You're doing all this.
Exactly.
Exactly.
No, you're going.
Oh, that's great.
Speaks vibes to the relationshipyou built, the trust you built.
That's so good.
I wanna jump into Drexel alittle bit before we talk, go
into recruiting.
(41:11):
You were a big time division oneplayer played for, Mount
Rushmore, coach of division one.
What's it been like for you overthese last five to six years?
Seeing how much has changed withthe ncaa, with the portal and
NLI?
(41:31):
Has it affected your heart atall?
In terms of how you go aboutyour business, are you still,
I'm talking to coaches that aregetting burned out talking to
agents.
Yeah.
I'm talking to coaches that aregetting burnout that they, they
never know what the roster'sgonna look like next year.
You jumps through some of thosehoops without having any control
over it.
As a player, what is all thischange done to you, if anything?
(41:55):
Nothing.
I feel like I'm in my element.
Yeah.
Because.
When I stopped playing I startedcoaching a professional team as
well.
So I had to, I was basicallylike the GM of the team.
I had to like, talk to agents.
I had to fill the emails fromthe agents.
I had to figure out, what ourbudget looked like in terms of
(42:16):
who we would sign, what we wouldget.
And like I worked with the headcoach with that in terms of it
was only him and I.
Yeah, so I had to do everything.
So what a great experience.
Yeah.
It's like right now it's reallysimilar and I learned a lot, I
learned a lot about valuing theplayers that you have, right?
(42:37):
I know everybody says that oh,but throughout that experience I
learned that like when you lookat other players, transfers,
they call it in Europe, andplayers you want, you might
wanna sign on your team.
You have to first alwaysevaluate the players that you
have, right?
Because if you can retain theplayers that you have, that's
how you continue to build a goodteam.
(42:57):
Absolutely, yeah.
And it, it definitely translatesto college basketball.
And then you talk about themoney and alright, if you have a
player that makes X, Y, and Zbut he doesn't fit, how can you
get a player that just, that'sjust as good as him or better
and maybe get a better player inanother position to spend more
money sold.
Is, I feel like I'm in myelement with this one.
(43:18):
That's great.
Are there changes that need tohappen?
Are there things that need, youtalk, I talk to coaches all the
time that always have an opinionon this.
Are you seeing something withNIL or the portal that you wish
everybody would agree to and itwould work this way?
Way?
Yeah.
I think one thing is just theagents.
I think the agents need I'm allfor kids making money, but I
(43:42):
think it has to be some type of.
Vetting process for theseagents, like I think they need
to go through rigorous trainingand there needs to be some type
of licensing for agents.
Like you can't just become anagent.
Yeah, and it's the same withlike with coaches, and that's
(44:03):
why I say Germany has one of thebest systems.
In terms of how they structuredyouth basketball, it's not
connected to the universities,it's all through the club teams.
It's not connected to highschools, right?
Yes.
So it's all about, and to be acoach, like I, I had to go get a
(44:23):
license, like a German coach'slicense.
I had to take a course, take atest show that I can do practice
on a court, right?
I had to go through all thisstuff to become a coach.
When you think about our system,it's like the Wild West aau.
You can you, you take a couplequestions, do the USA basketball
thing, and you can become acoach on the AAU circuit, but
(44:45):
there's no vetting process.
And that's the one thing I wouldchange because I think if we
don't change it, we're gonnacontinue to fall behind in terms
of, we always have theathleticism, we always have the
bodies for it.
But the skill and thedevelopment and the way we play
the game, I think we're fallingbehind a little bit.
Yeah.
How much of that is, so many ofthese schools don't have a
(45:09):
consistent culture from year toyear now because of all the
transfers.
Is that affecting the growth ofthe individual when they're
constantly playing for a brandnew coach or a brand new system
or, a lot of these kids areplaying in four schools in, in
five years.
Is that affecting their abilityto develop the way they should
(45:30):
be?
I don't think so.
I know this is not this opinionmight not be popular, but I
think your environment shapesbehavior.
So I think the more you'reintroduced to new environments,
just like I was with NewHampshire, just like I was with
Panola, just like I was withTexas Tech, like Tennessee
(45:52):
State.
More you learn about who you areas a person.
The more you're, the moreadaptable you are to certain
situations, right?
Yeah.
And it goes, it is also good forif you wanna be a professional
player, because it's the samesystem, right?
When I came out of collegeplaying pro, I didn't know how
to play pick and roll because weplayed motion.
(46:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it was one system I knew howto play.
That's it.
But if I played if I played atmultiple schools right.
Or was ingrained at and when Isay play at multiple schools,
like at New Hampshire we playedpick and roll, but it was one
way, right?
At Tennessee State, we didn'tplay, I didn't play at all.
(46:37):
At Panola, we ran like a fiveout system.
So I never really got introducedto playing pick and roll.
Isn't that crazy?
Yeah.
Wow.
Wow.
But that's my point though.
Yeah.
So now I love that perspectivethough.
Yeah.
So now it, it makes a lot ofsense.
It goes back to you were talkingabout, throwing different
(46:57):
cultures and that melting potinto the roster.
The more change, the moreeverybody has to be humble, you
have to be vulnerable, you haveto figure it out, right?
Yep.
Yep.
Brain has to work faster.
Yep.
I love that you're throwinginto, you have to concentrate.
Yeah, I haven't thought about itthat way.
And I love that perspective,coach.
I love it.
(47:18):
That's gonna make me thinktonight.
I'm gonna be up late thinkingabout that.
But there are some aspects offinishing at a university that
are beneficial.
Like you have a, always have ahome.
Yeah.
They'll take care.
Stuff like that.
I wish was different, but do youfeel like Texas Tech is your
alma mater?
Do you feel that in your Yeah,for sure.
Okay.
(47:39):
For sure.
Because, I have that, and I feellike there's, when you play at
four schools in four years, it'sokay where's your love at?
It's like dating four girls atthe same time.
It's yeah.
You know who you really gettingto know, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, but tech definitely is,tech is my alma mater.
Like it's.
Yep.
All right.
I figured as much.
I wanna roll into recruitingwith you, but I wanna talk about
(48:00):
this a little bit.
You've coached some studs.
You've coached Bones Highland.
You've coached Isaiah Wong.
What, and you've seen guys likeHartenstein and you've seen
Schroeder at that, when theywere young.
What separates elite players,guys that can really do it at
that D one level have a chanceto play?
Pro and make money, even thougheverybody's making money now,
(48:21):
but to go and be a pro aftercollege, what separates that
elite player from just the goodones in your eyes?
I think it's two scales, right?
So you have a player that'selite that because the way the
NBA is now, I think it's moregeared towards development.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So if I take a six nine kid witha seven three wingspan.
(48:45):
That can dribble and shootthrees.
I feel like I could I think theN NBA's kind of taken those guys
to develop them.
Yeah.
To be good players.
But guys like Bones, they, theguys that work really hard to
get there.
I think the mentality, like justthe mental toughness that they
have to overcome.
(49:06):
I mean think about this bones,when he was a junior going to
senior in high school, he jumpedout a second story window from a
fire.
Yeah.
He missed his whole senior year.
So think about that type ofadversity.
Yeah.
And then two years into yourcollege career, so literally two
(49:27):
years later, you're a firstround draft pick.
Crazy player of the year in theA 10.
It's just a different mentality,like Yeah.
And that's what I think thedifference is with some kids.
Some kids are able to lock in,have the self-belief,'cause
that's a huge part of it.
Believing in themselves and thenthey're surrounded by people who
also believe in them.
(49:49):
Yeah.
So it's a lot.
It's your environment, it's yourmentality and it's if you fit
that mold to, to go to that nextlevel.
And then we've got guys thatwere superstars that didn't have
anybody to believe in him, hadnothing but adversity.
And had to figure out how tobelieve in themselves.
Yeah, for sure.
Or, yep.
Yeah.
(50:09):
It's just the look at any NBA,any NFL draft man, any major
league baseball draft, and youlook back the last 10 years,
nobody knows how to pick thatleague kid.
Nobody does.
May, maybe three or four guyswill hit the first round, but
it's amazing how many guys hitround two.
(50:29):
Yep.
Football round six.
Six, six round baseball, the13th round.
I love that.
I love that idea.
And it comes down to having theright coach.
You look at these kids that hadyou in Germany.
They might have gone the otherway.
They might have never blossomedif they wouldn't have had you to
inspire them and teach them andgive them the opportunity they
had.
So that's some cool stuff.
(50:51):
And a lot of'em are stillplaying.
I think it's like there's sevenor eight of'em that are playing
professional right now, soThat's cool.
It's pretty cool.
And these are kids that couldn'tdribble with their left hand.
They played football, soccer allthe time, right?
Yeah.
It is just development, likedeveloping the kid holistically.
As it's just something that'sspecial, man, I think it's
(51:12):
really important that as coacheswe try to do that and in, in
recruiting, like you said, likethe ones that are obvious are
easy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Stevie Warner can see them, butif you have a kid that has
potential to be special.
That's where I think separatesthe evaluation and recruiting.
(51:33):
Yeah.
What can they be in one year,two years from now?
Yeah, even three years from now.
What are they gonna look likethree years from now?
Yeah.
Evaluation isn't what today.
It's the projection of what downthe road.
Absolutely.
Coach, this has been a joy.
If you've got the time, I'd liketo take about 10, 15 minutes,
talk some recruiting with you atthat, at your level.
And yep.
We'll come back and do segmenttwo here.
(51:54):
But thanks for doing this today,man.
It was a lot fun.
No, no problem.
I appreciate it, man.
For sure.
I.
That was Will Chavis, assistantmen's basketball coach at Drexel
University, and what aconversation it was.
What stands out to me the mostabout Will isn't just that he
was Bobby Knight's first recruitat Texas Tech, or that he's
coached at every level andplayed professionally, or that
(52:17):
he's even helped develop NBAplayers.
It's his heart.
It's his ability to takeeverything he's learned, the
good, the heart, and thehumbling, and pour it back into
the people he leads.
He's proof that the best coachesare still students.
Students of the game, studentsof life, and students of the
people they serve.
And I think that's what makeshim so special.
Will's story reminds us thatleadership isn't about control
(52:40):
or credit.
It's about consistency andhumility and impact.
If you enjoyed today's episode,I'd love for you to subscribe,
rate, and please leave acomment.
I wanna know how this is goingfor you.
Do you want changes?
Do you want more?
Do you want less?
I'd appreciate it if you'd letme know.
Any feedback is good feedback.
(53:01):
It really helps others find theshow as well, and keeps these
conversations going.
You can also learn more about mywork from my recruiting books
and journals to classes andspeaking
engagements@coachmattrogers.comand don't miss part two of my
conversation with Coach Chavisthis Monday on the Significant
Recruiting podcast where we goeven deeper into recruiting,
(53:23):
philosophy, player development,and what young athletes need to
hear most right now.
Until next time, stay focused onwhat you can control.
Stay humble and keep chasingsignificance.
Welcome back to The SignificantCoaching Podcast.
I'm your host, Matt Rogers.
This week's guest is someone Icould have talked to for hours,
will Chavis, assistant men'sbasketball coach at Drexel
University.
One of the reasons I love doingthis podcast is because I'm
always learning everyconversation, whether it's with
a coach, an athlete, a collegepresident, or a professional in
(00:32):
another field.
It always makes me better, andmy hope is that it does the same
for you.
That these stories, theseperspectives and insights, open
your eyes to different ways ofthinking, to different cultures
and to the ideals that shape howpeople lead and grow.
Coach Chavis is the absoluteembodiment of that.
(00:54):
I was captivated by his storyfrom being the first recruit by
legendary coach Bobby Knightwhen he moved from Indiana to
Texas Tech, to his time playingprofessionally in Germany, and
ultimately realizing thatcoaching was his true calling.
But what really stuck with mewere the moments in between the
(01:15):
moments where his humility andperspective shown through.
You could just feel how muchgratitude he carries, how much
he values the game, and howdeeply he cares about the people
he's responsible for andaccountable to.
Coach Chavis brings such agrounded, yet hopeful voice to
the conversation about wherecollege basketball and really
(01:35):
college athletics as a whole isheaded.
He doesn't run from the chaosthat defines the Division One
landscape.
Right now.
The NIL, the transfer portalplayer movement dealing with
agents of 18 year olds.
Instead, he embraces it.
He sees it as a part of theevolving world we live in, and
(01:55):
he's choosing to lead.
Through it with integrity andpurpose.
I love that.
I learned so much from him.
There were so many times duringour talk where I just felt this
overwhelming gratitude to him,not only for the wisdom he was
sharing, but for the hope hegave me about the future of
college sports.
We need more people like WillChavis humble leaders who love
(02:17):
the game, love their players,care deeply about doing things
the right way And he fullyaccepts that we must adapt with
the times, and he is and heloves it.
I truly believe he's going toplay a big role in shaping what
the next chapter of our sportslooks like.
I hope the leaders at the NCAAlook to individuals like Will.
(02:41):
Who played college ball atdifferent levels, played
professionally, now have comeback in our coaching.
His insight and his wisdom areso valuable.
And after listening to thisepisode, I think you'll feel the
same.
Now if you wanna learn moreabout me or wanna reach out to
me to get advice on your child'scollege recruitment, or just
(03:01):
want to have a conversationabout how I can help your
school, your community, or yourculture, you can schedule with
me anytime@coachmattrogers.com.
I also encourage you to checkout my recruiting books and
classes.
My advice not only comes from20.
Plus years of experience, butalso from a deep devotion to
making sure young athletes andfamilies don't make the same
(03:23):
mistakes I've seen too manyfamilies make over the years,
including my own when I was ateenager.
And before I forget, I want tothank Coach Brian, BJ Johnson,
associate head, men's basketballcoach at Bingington University
for referring Coach Chavis tome.
I, the coaches and thepresidents and the adss that I
(03:43):
interview every week have beenso gracious to introduce me to
people that they trust and theybelieve in and see as
significant coaches and leaders.
And I'm thankful for BJ tointroduce me to Will and, and
I'm thankful to have will in mylife and thankful that I got to
have a conversation with him.
Alright, let's get to thesignificant conversation with
(04:04):
the phenomenal will Chavis.
Coach Javis, so great to seeyou, man.
Thanks for being on the show.
Sure, man.
Thanks for having me, man.
Man, you're in the thick of it.
I know you guys have been goinghard since April at that, at the
D one level, what are practicesstarting to look like right now
as we get closer to October 15this right around the corner and
(04:26):
you guys have scrimmages andgames coming up.
What are practices looking likein terms of intensity right now?
Yeah, they, they've been prettyintense.
We're rubbing it up trying to,stagger the days of hard
practice with moderate practice,with low practice.
But the guys are getting afterit.
We have five new guys.
We had nine returners, so it'sgoing to be competitive and
(04:50):
they're a competitive group,right now we're just trying to
get our habits down, get somepattern recognition with some of
the plays.
Yeah.
And just try to scaffold fromthere.
What's the hardest thing for youteaching?
You got five new guys coming inwith nine returnees, nine guys
that really know what practiceslook like and what you guys want
for that rhythm and pace.
What's the hardest part for youwith those five guys coming in
(05:13):
new?
Honestly, they've been great.
I think we've done a good job oftrying to teach the habits in a
way that they can learn'em.
We structured it in a way wherethe returns could also help them
as well.
So I think our returning guyshave done an awesome job of
integrating the new guys.
And they've done a, the new guyshave done a good job of
assimilating, trying to pick upthose habits of what we're
(05:36):
trying to do and what we want toaccomplish on the floor.
You okay if we talk Juco alittle bit?
Yeah, sure.
I know that's how you came upand then you went and played.
For an unknown coach, this BobRobert Knight guy, right?
Yeah.
Yep.
Talk a little bit about whatJUCO did for you and what that
meant to have those two years,not only to grow as a ball
(05:57):
player, but to grow as a youngman and to figure some things
out.
First.
Did that make a difference foryou?
Yeah, it did.
I so Juco, I came to juco.
It was an interesting path forme because.
I never would've expected to gojuco.
I was an honor student.
Like I never I never thoughtthat would be my route, but the
stigma back then was juco guysthat didn't qualify.
(06:18):
It was a different stigma thanwhat it is right now.
Right now in JUCO you have a lotof freshman qualifiers just
because of the transfer portal.
But my freshman year, I startedout at the University of New
Hampshire, which was in theleague with Drexel.
Yeah.
It was America East back then,but all the teams that are in
the CAA were mixed in HofstraDelaware back then Northeastern,
(06:39):
so they all were in the AmericaEast.
So I started out there, NewHampshire with Jeff Jackson's
the head coach.
After my freshman year, Jeffdecided to leave he took another
job at Vanderbilt with KevinStallings.
I had an opportunity to try togo with Jeff.
He came to my dorm and tried toconvince me to go, but I felt
(07:01):
it'd been better for me just to,to see what was out there.
So I decided to transfer.
Back then it was when youtransfer, you had to sit out a
year.
So it came down to UNCGreensboro with coach Dempsey
and Coach McCaffrey, who's atPenn right now.
And Tennessee State, which wasFrankie Allen and Coach Monarch.
(07:24):
I chose Tennessee State and Ihad to sit out that year.
So that year I set out FrankieAllen gets fired.
Of course he gets fired and itis not funny, but it's just my
luck that he would get fired.
Yeah, it's, none of this isfunny.
It's just like when it rains, itpours, doesn't it?
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
(07:45):
So my coach resigned my freshmanyear.
Maybe it was me, it just, it'sbad.
My, my coach got fired after myfreshman year too, man.
So I, I know where you're at.
Yeah.
So I had to figure it out fromthere.
I initially was going to go toTyler Junior College in Texas.
Okay.
Coach Crutchfield was the headcoach there.
(08:05):
He's the coach at Omaha now andthe head coach at Omaha in
Nebraska.
He was the coach there.
And he was friends with ScottMonarch, who's at Grayson Junior
College right now.
And Scott was my assistant coachat Tennessee State.
So Scott got the, Scott sent meto Coach Crutchfield to Tyler.
(08:26):
A couple weeks later Scott getsthe job at Panola and he tells
crutch, I need, will, I need totake will with me.
So I ended up going with coachMonarch to Panola, Carthage,
Texas.
How was that?
I always say, I tell a joke, itwas probably 2,500 people in the
town, and I think 2000 of'emwere in the cemetery.
(08:48):
So it was a golden corral on thestrip, a Dairy Queen, and I
think a Walmart back then.
I hear it's a lot better now,but what a, what an easy
transition for a 19-year-oldgirl from Philly.
Huh?
Yeah, Philly inner city to NewHampshire, to dorm, New
Hampshire.
Then I go to Nashville,Tennessee, and then Carthage,
(09:10):
Texas.
Oh man.
This is why I do this for aliving because.
I swear to God, more kids makedecisions based on somebody
saying, Hey, I like you.
You should do this, thanactually thinking about what's
best for them and where, whatwould be, where they would be
happy and healthy and be in anenvironment they love.
But the other side of it, man,how much did you learn in those
(09:32):
two and a half years?
Yeah, I learned a lot.
I learned a lot because.
First of all, I didn't wannaleave either situation.
That's I just wanna make thatknown.
Like I didn't have a plan toleave New Hampshire.
I sat down and talked to the newincoming coach when they hired
him, and I think his style justdidn't fit the way, my, I
played, yeah.
(09:53):
He wanted to get up and downpress.
I wasn't that type of player tojust press the whole game.
I was more of a cerebral typepoint guard, like setting people
up.
Yeah.
Just pressing, just takes thethinking out the game.
Yeah.
So that didn't work out.
And then the other coach cameinto Tennessee State and the
first meeting I had with him, heasked me straight up, are you
staying or are you leaving?
(10:13):
So here I am, a 18-year-old kid,a man comes up and says, are you
standing or leaving?
Not Hello.
Not like, how are you?
Oh gosh.
So just off that initialfeeling.
I just said, I'm going.
So yeah, that's how, that'sbasically how it happened.
And what I learned was just tocontinue to try to get better.
(10:37):
Yeah.
I think every year after highschool, I just feel like I
continue to get better andbetter on the court and off the
court.
I just try to continue to workhard, and I just felt like good
things would happen.
Did you feel like there was somecontinuity by the time you
landed down in Texas?
Did you feel like you had acoach, you knew a little bit and
(10:57):
you understood where he wascoming from?
Did that help?
That's funny.
In Juco I'll even go back here.
In junior college, I had no ideawhere I was gonna land.
The first couple weeks in juniorcollege were really difficult
for me, but I, I was blessedenough to have my brother with
me, coach Monarch gave mybrother a scholarship.
(11:19):
My brother ended up gonnaColorado State playing for Buzz
Williams and Okay.
And Dale Laer.
Yeah.
But he was with me, so it helpedme out a lot.
But that, those first coupleweeks were really difficult.
And then it started to turnaround a little bit.
I started, we started to playgames.
It started to, I just startedgetting more comfortable with
what was going on.
(11:40):
I played the whole year injunior college with a torn
ligament in my thumb.
Oh my gosh.
As a point guard man.
How heck Yeah.
And it was my right hand, myshooting game.
Oh.
Yep.
Tell me about the difficultpart.
What was the hardest part thosefirst few weeks?
What obviously culture wise musthave been?
A dramatic change for you, evencoming from New Hampshire at the
(12:01):
time you were in New Hampshire.
Going down to Texas, small town,Texas.
Man, that's a huge culturechange.
What was the hardest part foryou that you feel felt like you
had to overcome?
I think the hardest part wasjust solitude.
It was like coming from Philly.
It's a big city.
Yeah.
Going down there, it was just, Ididn't have a car.
All the baseball team and thebasketball team, we shared the
(12:22):
dorms.
So it was like two bathrooms onEast side.
Yeah.
Shared a dorm with my brother.
So it was really like anadjustment in terms of what I
was used to having a dorm roomand just that difference in, in
demographic down there.
Also I didn't see a lot ofpeople that looked like me.
I would say.
I didn't see a lot of peoplethat dressed or spoke like me.
(12:46):
So just that, that change, justtrying to understand people, the
dialect, the language.
I had a difficult time justadapting into everything.
The food, chicken, fried steak,biscuits.
Yeah.
Like I wasn't used to thatstuff.
Healthy stuff.
Yeah.
Great.
Great for an athlete.
When you think about that, Iwould've come in with a ton of
(13:06):
preconceived notions.
And then when you're 18, 19years old, you must have thought
the absolute worst abouteverything as you walked out the
door there, when did you get,did, was there ever a point
where you got comfortablebecause you stayed in Texas
after that?
Yeah.
Different part of Texas,obviously a bigger city.
Yeah.
(13:26):
At what point did you startrealizing, okay, there's some
people here that.
I can trust, there's some peoplehere that I can get to know
better.
There's a bit of a melting potthat maybe I can bring to them.
Yep.
Is there some of that happenedin that year?
Yeah, exactly.
That's exactly what it was.
The diversity was definitelythere.
And I, like you said, I added tothat diversity, so I got to
(13:47):
learn from different peopledifferent aspects.
I tried different foods, so itwas really a learning experience
for me.
And like I said, the first weekswere difficult, but after that.
I got pretty comfortable when westarted playing games.
Yeah.
So like basketball for me wasjust like, like a savior, in
that environment.
Yep.
So we would practice, and I,like I said, I really had a
chance, the solitude allowed meto get better because I was in
(14:10):
college for two years, so thatmeans that I didn't have any
class really.
I took a couple classes to getmy associate's degree, but I was
already two years in school, soI basically had one class today.
Whatever the eligibilitystandard was, that's the CLA
amount of classes I had, and Iwould just stay in the gym.
In a weight room.
You can get really good withnothing else to do.
(14:31):
Almost makes you think, as acoach now, how do I create that
environment where there'snothing to do?
Do we take away their cellphones or computers and lock'em
into the gym?
But it's so hard to recreatethat now.
No, for sure.
And I was a worker anyway itjust gave me the opportunity to
really lock in and focus.
Yeah.
What doing I was, same way.
I was point guard too.
It was just like, okay, can Iget keys to the gym?
(14:52):
'cause it locks up at 10, 11,whatever it was.
I was like, just, yep.
I can't sleep before one in themorning, so let me go shoot, let
me go dribble, lemme go work onthe game, get in the weight
room.
So I was the same way.
What do you, at that point, didyou still feel like you were a
division one player?
Did you feel like.
You could play with anybody orwere you still have some doubts
(15:15):
on playing at New Hampshire andplaying at Texas Tech are two
different worlds.
At that point, where did youfeel like you were as a player?
Like I said, I felt, Idefinitely felt like I still was
a division one player.
It just was what level, comingthrough our gym.
I had two teammates with me.
One of'em transferred fromUniversity of Memphis, so a lot
of people were coming in,looking at him.
(15:37):
And then I had a six 10 guy fromMississippi.
I mean he had every power, fiveSEC, big 10.
He had every school in thecountry coming in looking at
him.
So I was getting lower levellooks.
But as the season went on, likeI said, I just continued to get
better.
Yeah.
I put a string of gamestogether.
I put 40 on 14th, straight Wow.
(15:59):
With like double digit assists.
So it was like, like I reallywent to I really went to work,
but again I couldn't, I reallybelieve I couldn't have done it
if it wasn't for my brotherbeing with me.
Is he older than you?
He's younger.
He's younger.
So he had your baby brotherthere with you.
Yep.
All right.
Yep.
And my baby brother had a lot ofopinions about how I should have
been playing and he I rememberone game and this game started
(16:23):
the streak we were playing atJacksonville junior college, and
I had one point at half time.
And we were losing by 20.
I ended up the game with, Iended the game with 41 points
and we won the game.
What the heck happened athalftime?
My brother.
My brother, me, my brother andI, we had a lot of choice words
(16:46):
for each other.
He basically called me soft andit just turned everything, like
just, I just turned it around.
I just went and killer mode.
The whole second half.
The trust your coach must havehad for you to have that second
half to say, Hey, nobody'sstopping me now.
Yeah.
(17:06):
That's, your coach must havebeen a part of that, even though
you were the point guard and youhad the ball in your hands, he
told me.
You were more of a structuredkind of guy.
Yeah.
What score?
40 is tough in 40 minutes.
Yeah.
Score 40 and 20.
Yeah, I can, I could alwaysscore.
Even in high school, my senioryear I was 26 in games, so it
was like I could always score.
(17:28):
But I, I felt I took pride inwinning as well, so whatever it
took to win the game, that'swhat I brought to the game.
Even.
Even at Tech it's the same, butlike whatever it took to win the
game, I was willing to do it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that, that 40 points in thesecond half was just, I don't
think coach had a choice becauseI was just so aggressive that it
(17:49):
just turned the whole gamearound.
If you're a coach, you're acoaching the guy, he, he's
getting the rebound, pushing theball, making threes, like
playing defense.
You get the hell outta the way.
That's good coaching.
You just get the heck outta theway and say just keep doing what
you're doing.
Yep.
We can't build an offense betterthan what you're doing.
Yep.
You must have scored on 70% ofthe possessions.
(18:11):
Yeah, it was insane, man.
I felt like I couldn't miss.
If that makes sense.
Yeah.
Every shot, I got three pointersoff the dribble.
Like everything.
Like about 10 threes in thesecond half.
It was just, I was justunconscious.
It doesn't make sense for me'cause I never had a game like
that, but I could see it throughyour eyes.
That makes a lot of sense.
And it helped me out because theteam was pressing.
(18:32):
Yeah.
Ru the guy that wanted to stayat New Hampshire, he wanted to
press to game team was pressing.
Maybe that's where you shouldhave been.
Nah, no.
Alright.
Tell me about getting recruitedby Bobby Knight.
I want to hear this story.
So basically it starts at thatgame.
So after that game again, I puta string of games together.
(18:56):
I just remember after that game,like a lot of Power Five schools
started calling my JUCO coach.
Yeah.
And I could hear him on thephone with him, like in the van,
like after the game in the van,I guess Word got out and like a
couple schools in Texas,S-M-U-T-C-U at that time, I know
that he talked to them for sureon the phone.
So I guess when that happens,other schools in that area
(19:18):
started to get involved.
So I guess they got word of itand yeah, man, it was just, it
was a shock because.
I had visits set up and I metwith a lot of coaches.
And they might not even rememberthis, but I still remember the
coaches that I met with, satdown with and talked to, and a
lot of'em are prominent coachesright now.
(19:39):
But when Coach Knight came, itjust was different.
I I didn't even know he was atthe game when we were playing
San Jacinto.
We were playing San Jack.
It was another one of thosegames.
They had the number one pointguard in the country.
And I had two points athalftime.
(20:00):
I ended the game like 32.
And Coach Knight was at thatgame.
That was that, again, it goesback to what I, what we needed
to win the game.
Yeah.
And I would have outbursts likethat.
If I felt like I needed to pickup the slack and scoring for my
teammates, but if everybody wasrolling and everybody,'cause I
was, there was 10 assistant injuco, so if everybody was
(20:23):
playing well, I would just, pickmy spots.
But if I had to force the issueto get everybody going I would
do that too.
But coach there.
Did your brother have an impactthat game?
That have to I, I was, it isfunny because my dad actually
came at halftime.
My dad showed up to that game athalftime.
(20:44):
I didn't even know he was downthere.
He showed up at halftime andthat kind of like also lit a
spark.
'cause I saw him in the crowdand we were losing the game.
So of course I don't want, Idon't want my dad to see me lose
this game and I don't care whowe were playing against.
That's, I always just felt like,man, I gotta change this game
somehow.
And that's what happened.
(21:05):
Tell me about your relationshipwith your dad.
My dad's was awesome, man.
He's the one that, he was areally good player.
I always hear everyone talkabout how good my dad was as a
player.
I never got a chance to see himplay, but I always hear the
stories, but he's the one thatspent a lot of time with me when
I was younger.
Teach me how to shoot abasketball, working on my form,
(21:27):
and just always talking to meabout, am I having fun playing
basketball?
That was his biggest thing.
Are you having fun?
And what did you learn?
That's great.
Yep.
So he never was really like along drive home type of dad.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
It was more like, and back itwas different.
Parents didn't go to games a lotback then.
(21:49):
Like I could count on probablytwo hands how many times my
parents were at in my games incollege, yeah, it's just
different.
It's hard in college though,especially when you're that far
away.
You got jobs.
Yeah.
It's expensive.
Nobody's paying for that trip.
It's coming outta your pocket.
Yeah.
I don't think my parents came,but I don't remember being,
them, being at more than maybeone or two games, my career.
Yep.
It was just too far away.
(22:09):
They worked all the time andYep.
They didn't have any money.
There was, it wasn't like theycould hop on a plane and come
see me play, exactly.
Yeah.
It was different.
All right, so for the.
For those 17 and 18 year oldsand parents that are listening
to this, how does Bobby Knightintroduce himself and what does
that first conversation looklike?
(22:30):
The first time I met him was atthe airport on my official
visit.
Okay.
So he came to the airport topick you up?
Yep.
Pat Knight.
Pat Knight came to Panola andwatched me at Open Gym.
And that day I remember I metwith SMU, I met with Southern
Illinois.
I met with.
Oklahoma was Matt, was that MattPainter back then?
(22:51):
Yeah.
Matt Painter.
Matt Painter was assistant coachfor Bruce Weber.
Yeah.
They both came to see me inPanola.
I was at, I was the head coachat Maryville University at that
time.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
Yep.
So I, yeah, Matt and I kindacame up at the same time.
Yeah.
So you were, that's very cool.
So Pat picked you up or Bobbypicked you up?
(23:11):
Bobby picked me up from theairport and, I just remember the
first thing, interaction I said.
He asked me how I was doing.
He was, he seemed really nice.
He was really nice, right?
So I'm like, this is not the guythat everybody's talking about.
He was really nice.
So he so I asked him, I said,coach, why, like, why you
recruit me?
(23:31):
He's ah, Chavis.
Called me Chavis already.
They didn't call me Will theyjust called me Chavis.
He said it's not the size of thedog, it's the size of the
fighting the dog.
And the rest of the car ride wassilent.
I'm just contemplating what heis saying.
Like, all right, what is thatlike?
All right.
I'm tough.
What?
Oh, okay.
(23:51):
But yeah, so he, that was anintroductory press conference
the same day.
So he picked me up on the sameday that he has his introductory
press conference to Texas Techfrom the airport.
So now being in this world, Isee like he made it a priority
to come pick me up when he wasliterally being introduced as
the head coach at Texas Tech.
(24:12):
You were priority number one forBobby Knight.
Yeah.
Isn't that amazing?
Wow.
That was, that's compliment,man.
No, for sure.
And looking back on it rightnow, I'm like, wow.
That was that was pretty good.
And that's where I first metChris Beard.
'cause Chris Beard was on ourstaff and he he was a young
coach, coached in Juco.
In Oklahoma.
Yeah.
(24:32):
Yep.
He was at the press conferenceas well.
Very cool man.
Very cool.
So car ride silence.
You get there and how does itgo?
It went well.
I don't, I went out with theguys.
It is funny because I went outwith the guys and with any
(24:53):
coaching change istransitioning.
Like they're trying to figureout if they're gonna keep the
players or not.
Like similar to my experience.
So it's just amazing.
That's where you end up.
You were in the middle of atornado, guys thinking about
leaving guys.
Not sure.
And they wanted to play forBobby Knight.
Not having any idea.
All they knew is what they sawon TV about him.
And you still made thatdecision?
(25:14):
Yep.
That's amazing to me.
Yep.
How many of those guys that youwent out with that night already
had made up their mind?
They were staying or leaving?
Two of them.
So you didn't know guys, youwere gonna have a team?
No I knew we were, have a team.
It was, there was, there werethree guys, other guys on that
(25:34):
visit with me.
Okay.
And they all committed as well.
So Power Kozinski.
Irma, Cuco, Irma, Cuco ended up,I think he's with the Brooklyn S
right now.
He ended up not coming to TexasTech because of the
international stuff back then.
Yeah.
With, and he ended up playing inTurkey, being one of the best
players at FSO, ER, one of thosebig teams, the Euro League
(25:55):
teams.
But yeah, he was supposed toplay with us as well.
But yeah, it was, and there wasother guys, like I said, Powell
was in France.
He was.
Polish Prince.
He was born in Poland, but livedin France, so he committed as
well.
And they both were JUCO guys.
So knew you, you knew you werecoming in with some size, some
(26:17):
guys that could shoot it.
Yep.
Irma played for for Chris Beard.
I think it was at Oklahoma orsomewhere like that.
Okay.
But he played for him.
And Powell played at Dodge City.
Juco in Kansas.
Yep.
And then K Powell ended upcommitting from Butler Junior
College.
Nick Valdez from it was a schoolin Colorado at Juco ended up
(26:42):
committing.
And I think that's it.
And then we, Andy Ellis stayedMarcus Sharp Shire Steed, Andre
Emmett Steed.
Mikey Marshall.
Yeah.
Like a lot of guys stayed.
I think it was like five or sixof'em that stayed, and he
brought in five of us.
So Bobby Knight was really nice.
First impression, when did youget to meet the real Bobby
(27:03):
Knight?
How long did that last?
Like coach, like he wasn't likethe yelling and all that stuff.
It was in practice.
Like in the games, he was reallylike calm and coached the game.
But he might got on the refs andyelled at the refs, but it was
rare that he was like yelling atus all.
It wasn't all the time.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
(27:23):
But for me, for me, I justremember one thing that stood
out to me because he questionedlike my toughness.
It was a loose ball in practice.
And he I didn't dive on thefloor for the loose ball, and he
stopped practice and he said heused some choice words.
(27:45):
He said, why did, he saidbasically, why didn't you dive
on the floor for the ball?
I thought you were from Philly.
And then he went on a tangenttalk.
He went right there, didn't he?
Yeah.
Then he went on a tangent andstarted talking about a guy that
he coached from Philly.
He was one of the toughest guyshe ever coached.
He's I just don't know.
He is I don't know.
You must be from the suburbs orsomething.
That's what he said.
So the next chance I got in thesame practice, loose ball.
(28:11):
I'm the first one to the floor.
Dove on the floor, got the looseball, had a tore my whole side
up.
It was strawberry red on theside, and he just ran over and
picked me up and stoppedPractice.
Told me like, that's what heneeds.
That's the intensity he needs.
So that was, that's how he wasthough, like he was a great
(28:33):
motivator.
Yeah, a great motivator.
Knew what buttons to push,didn't he?
For sure.
A hundred percent.
What did you learn playing forhim those two years, about your
game and about yourself, and alittle bit of, for foreshadowing
of who you are today as a coach?
I think it's, I think playingfor him shaped me as a player,
(28:56):
as a person, as a coach, reallyas a coach as well.
Because the one thing I learnedthat, that stuck with me is he
always used to say mental is tophysical is four to one.
And like I, I tell kids that tothis day when I was coaching my
high school team and McDevin,that was our saying.
That was our motto among otherthings.
(29:19):
I just learned that beingmentally prepared and being able
to concentrate is a real skillthat's valued in life and I just
see a lot of people are unableto do it and I think that he
allowed me to learn that to howto really concentrate even in
the heat of like battle heallowed us to.
(29:40):
And I think that was part of hismethod of coaching, like the
chaos a little bit in practice.
He just set an environment wherethose behaviors would allow you
to be successful in the game.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like being able to concentrate,being able to take instruction.
Like he really, he rarely used aclipboard.
If he did, he was breaking theclipboard.
(30:03):
He wasn't writing on it.
He just break the clipboardlike, but yeah.
He was just a basketball genius.
His mind was amazing.
Amazing.
You've had a great run yourselfas a coach before you, you got
back into Drexel.
What's that journey been likefor you?
Coaching club, coaching highschool?
(30:27):
What did you learn about thegame?
Being able to coach at thatlevel before you got to this
level?
Yep.
I started coaching in Germany,and I will, I wanna say this
right now, like I think Germanyhas the system down.
When you see all these playersthat are coming from Germany
(30:47):
that are making the NBA.
Yep.
And not only making the NBA,making an impact in the NBA.
Yep.
You see the success of theirnational team, European
champions, world champ, thesystem that they have in Germany
is something that everyone inthe world should look at and try
to model.
So I was a part of that systemas my first coaching experience.
I was coaching 16 and under.
(31:09):
Is that when you were playingtoo?
Yeah.
So that's how, explain a littlebit how that works when you're
playing pro overseas.
Yep.
So the club I was playing forpart of my contract to pay me
more money.
Me being an assistant coach, Isay that assistant coach, right?
Which means I come to practicesometimes I don't, like
(31:32):
assistant coach to 16 and underteam.
Because in Germany you couldhave many jobs where they don't
have to pay taxes on it, right?
So it was a mini job.
The coach end, like the teamwasn't great, so he ends up
quitting.
And when I say the team wasn'tgreat, the kids were amazing,
(31:53):
right?
But the record wasn't, ourrecord wasn't great in terms of
wins and losses, right?
So when he left, he just, hequit the team.
When he quit, I took over as thehead coach.
Okay?
So because I cared about thekids so much, I didn't even
really, I didn't care aboutwinning or losing.
(32:15):
All I cared about was that thosekids have a great experience,
right?
That they don't feel like lesserthan any other kid and they get
better at something.
That's all I focused on.
We lost games by 40, 50 points,but like after the game, I'm
still the happiest guy because.
(32:38):
Because we might have rememberedthe play and ran it.
There was some execution.
Yes, exactly.
And people got better, right?
Yeah.
So fast forward to the nextyear, just continuing to develop
those kids.
We ended up making like we,because in Germany you get
relegated.
(32:59):
So like even at the youth level,like you'll get relegated and
out of the J it is called theJBBL, the union win BA
Basketball league.
And if you get relegated, youcan't play in it.
So the top league for youth 16and under, you can't play in it
if you get relegated.
So we had to go to a tournamentto see if we qualify to play in
(33:19):
it again.
And man, I'll never forget thatfeeling, man.
We went to that tournament andthe same kids that were like,
couldn't win a game, were downon themselves.
We went to that tournament andwon and that was one of the best
feelings ever.
And I learned a lot as a coachright there.
(33:41):
Like a lot of times it's notabout people say Xs and Os with
the Jimmys and Joes.
Yeah.
But it is really about how muchyou pour into the kids and how
much.
They trust you and they trusteach other.
They bought into the heart oftheir coach.
Yep.
That's awesome.
And what was that, Hartensteinand Schroeder were the, were
(34:03):
those guys on the roster at thatpoint with you?
Yeah, so Dennis and Isaiah,they, we played against those
guys.
Okay.
You played against'em.
Okay.
They played against those guysand Hartstein, I think he had 40
and 20 on us.
Something crazy like that, itwas like he was ridiculous in
jail.
I can't even imagine him as a 16century year old playing
against, how do you match upwith that?
You don't trust me.
(34:23):
He averaged 40 points a game.
It was ridiculous.
And Dennis played a little bit,but he wasn't like he already
was moving up to the men's team.
You could quickly see that hewas going to be really good.
And there was a lot of otherguys too that, that, that played
really well, that, that areplaying on the national team
right now.
That I coached against or playedin a Euro league that I coached
against or playing in topleagues in Europe.
(34:44):
Yeah.
So it was really good to seethat, and it was really good for
me to have that experience as ayoung, I would say young, but as
a coach just failing forward, Iwould say.
Yeah.
If that makes sense.
Yeah.
I was allowed to fail forwardand I understood what it took.
How you had to mold the youngplayers in order to get them to
(35:07):
perform at their maximum to thebest of their ability.
Were you a father at that point?
Yes.
How much did that having a wifeand a kid, because you had just
the one at that point, right?
No, I had both.
You had both?
I both, yep.
The maturity that you have totake on as a dad when you have
(35:27):
kids that age.
How much of that affected you asa coach and your ability to
mature into the coach you aretoday, having kids that young
and doing it while you'recoaching, being a dad?
Yeah.
At that time, I think at thattime I didn't have my kids with
me, like my wife, my first wifeand I we got divorced the year
(35:50):
before I started coaching.
Okay.
So that also was like a savinggrace for me as well.
I was at that time, I was goingthrough a difficult time.
So to your point, it helped menot being with my kids, take
these kids as surrogate.
Yeah.
It's almost like they took theplace of my time and I was very
(36:11):
empathetic towards what theywere feeling as players as well.
They had some adversity.
That must have been hard, man.
Yeah, it was hard, but I alsoknew that I was doing it for a
reason.
Yeah.
And I really do feel like it wasa calling for me because I
didn't plan on doing it.
I didn't plan on doing it.
(36:32):
I remember I went back to TexasTech to work camp for Coach
Knight and Pat and Chris askinglike, why don't you get into
coaching?
I was like, man, I'm nevercoaching.
Said I'm never gonna coachbasketball.
I can't, like you put up withus.
Like I can't, I don't know if Icould do it right.
Yeah.
But this is coming from a guythat was playing professional.
Like I didn't think, I didn't, Iwasn't in that mindset.
(36:54):
I wasn't in a player's mindsetat that time.
But those kids in Germanychanged my whole outlook on what
it meant to be a mentor, afather, a coach all in one.
They were awesome, man.
That's great.
That happened.
The same thing happened for meonce you get a group of kids to
get that hook into you.
(37:14):
Yep.
And you get to see that lightbulb go on.
Yep.
You get to see them execute thethings you're trying to teach
'em.
There's not a better drug in theworld than that.
No.
You know what I mean?
Matt?
Matt, I remember the moment.
I knew that I wanted to coach.
Tell me.
So it was a kid and it is.
(37:35):
It is.
It was.
It was really emotional for mebecause it was just like the
light bulb went off for me.
Yeah, yeah.
Because it was a kid namedMarcel.
I was gonna leave it at that,like his name was Marcel, and
Marcel was a really good player,but he didn't have a lot of
confidence.
Yeah.
(37:55):
So we're playing an importantgame.
Against a rival by Right by isour rival.
We're at home, we're down twopoints.
And we have a side out ofbounds.
I called a timeout because youmove the ball forward in, in
Germany.
So I called timeout.
We get a side out bounds.
And I tell Marcel, I said,Marcel, because I felt like he
(38:16):
needed a confidence boost.
Yeah.
And he was playing really wellthat game.
So also he's our hot hand.
So I contemplated it.
I said, man, should I do this?
Because I don't want to kill hisconfidence.
I don't wanna take it away fromhim, but he's really playing
well.
I don't think anybody else couldtake this shot but him.
He is like our best player.
Yeah.
So I draw the play up and I tellhim, you're gonna take this
(38:40):
shot?
The kid said no.
Give it to Nico.
I said, no, you're going to takethis shot.
And then I made the whole team.
I asked every player, do youwant Martel Marcel to take this
shot?
They all said yes.
They said, Marcel, you could doit.
Take this shot.
So now at this point I'minvested.
If it goes wrong.
(39:01):
That's right.
I got a lot of cleaning up todo.
But everybody said they wantedhim to do it right?
Yeah.
So we could all rally around himif it doesn't work out and I
think that's part of it, right?
Being a part of a team, we canrally around if it doesn't work
out.
So I made up, alright Marcel,you're taking this shot.
I draw up a play.
Marcel gets the ball.
Three, two.
Shoots the ball hits off thebackboard and goes in, we win
(39:25):
the game.
Marcel Beelines to me, right?
And just jumps in my arm like itwas the most amazing feeling
ever, man.
Like I literally to this day,still think about that.
Man, like that really changed mylife right there.
That's the first hit.
Yep.
That's the first hit of thatdrug.
Yep.
Then you just want more and moreof it.
(39:45):
That is fantastic.
That's such a great storybecause it speaks volumes to
where you already were as acoach and understanding your
players, understanding thementality of the game and the
emotions that kids are goingthrough and what you saw in this
kid and how you wanted to helphim take that next step.
(40:07):
How old were you?
24.
No, I think I, at that time Iwas probably 31.
Were you that old at that?
Yeah.
But still, man, just to havethat thought process to go we're
gonna help this kid get to thenext level, we're gonna help him
get to that next point of wherehe is as a ball player.
That's amazing.
Yep.
And a kid, Marcel ended up goingto, he played well the rest of
(40:30):
the year.
Of course the bigger clubscouted him.
Yeah.
So Bamberg, which was a EuroLeague team at that time, ended
up scouting him and he I'llnever forget this, he came to
practice with tears in his eyesbecause he had to tell me that
he was going to bamberg.
And he was like, I don't want togo.
I'm not going.
(40:51):
I'm like, you're definitelygoing like I whatcha talking
about that's conversation.
You're doing all this.
Exactly.
Exactly.
No, you're going.
Oh, that's great.
Speaks vibes to the relationshipyou built, the trust you built.
That's so good.
I wanna jump into Drexel alittle bit before we talk, go
into recruiting.
(41:11):
You were a big time division oneplayer played for, Mount
Rushmore, coach of division one.
What's it been like for you overthese last five to six years?
Seeing how much has changed withthe ncaa, with the portal and
NLI?
(41:31):
Has it affected your heart atall?
In terms of how you go aboutyour business, are you still,
I'm talking to coaches that aregetting burned out talking to
agents.
Yeah.
I'm talking to coaches that aregetting burnout that they, they
never know what the roster'sgonna look like next year.
You jumps through some of thosehoops without having any control
over it.
As a player, what is all thischange done to you, if anything?
(41:55):
Nothing.
I feel like I'm in my element.
Yeah.
Because.
When I stopped playing I startedcoaching a professional team as
well.
So I had to, I was basicallylike the GM of the team.
I had to like, talk to agents.
I had to fill the emails fromthe agents.
I had to figure out, what ourbudget looked like in terms of
(42:16):
who we would sign, what we wouldget.
And like I worked with the headcoach with that in terms of it
was only him and I.
Yeah, so I had to do everything.
So what a great experience.
Yeah.
It's like right now it's reallysimilar and I learned a lot, I
learned a lot about valuing theplayers that you have, right?
(42:37):
I know everybody says that oh,but throughout that experience I
learned that like when you lookat other players, transfers,
they call it in Europe, andplayers you want, you might
wanna sign on your team.
You have to first alwaysevaluate the players that you
have, right?
Because if you can retain theplayers that you have, that's
how you continue to build a goodteam.
(42:57):
Absolutely, yeah.
And it, it definitely translatesto college basketball.
And then you talk about themoney and alright, if you have a
player that makes X, Y, and Zbut he doesn't fit, how can you
get a player that just, that'sjust as good as him or better
and maybe get a better player inanother position to spend more
money sold.
Is, I feel like I'm in myelement with this one.
(43:18):
That's great.
Are there changes that need tohappen?
Are there things that need, youtalk, I talk to coaches all the
time that always have an opinionon this.
Are you seeing something withNIL or the portal that you wish
everybody would agree to and itwould work this way?
Way?
Yeah.
I think one thing is just theagents.
I think the agents need I'm allfor kids making money, but I
(43:42):
think it has to be some type of.
Vetting process for theseagents, like I think they need
to go through rigorous trainingand there needs to be some type
of licensing for agents.
Like you can't just become anagent.
Yeah, and it's the same withlike with coaches, and that's
(44:03):
why I say Germany has one of thebest systems.
In terms of how they structuredyouth basketball, it's not
connected to the universities,it's all through the club teams.
It's not connected to highschools, right?
Yes.
So it's all about, and to be acoach, like I, I had to go get a
(44:23):
license, like a German coach'slicense.
I had to take a course, take atest show that I can do practice
on a court, right?
I had to go through all thisstuff to become a coach.
When you think about our system,it's like the Wild West aau.
You can you, you take a couplequestions, do the USA basketball
thing, and you can become acoach on the AAU circuit, but
(44:45):
there's no vetting process.
And that's the one thing I wouldchange because I think if we
don't change it, we're gonnacontinue to fall behind in terms
of, we always have theathleticism, we always have the
bodies for it.
But the skill and thedevelopment and the way we play
the game, I think we're fallingbehind a little bit.
Yeah.
How much of that is, so many ofthese schools don't have a
(45:09):
consistent culture from year toyear now because of all the
transfers.
Is that affecting the growth ofthe individual when they're
constantly playing for a brandnew coach or a brand new system
or, a lot of these kids areplaying in four schools in, in
five years.
Is that affecting their abilityto develop the way they should
(45:30):
be?
I don't think so.
I know this is not this opinionmight not be popular, but I
think your environment shapesbehavior.
So I think the more you'reintroduced to new environments,
just like I was with NewHampshire, just like I was with
Panola, just like I was withTexas Tech, like Tennessee
(45:52):
State.
More you learn about who you areas a person.
The more you're, the moreadaptable you are to certain
situations, right?
Yeah.
And it goes, it is also good forif you wanna be a professional
player, because it's the samesystem, right?
When I came out of collegeplaying pro, I didn't know how
to play pick and roll because weplayed motion.
(46:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it was one system I knew howto play.
That's it.
But if I played if I played atmultiple schools right.
Or was ingrained at and when Isay play at multiple schools,
like at New Hampshire we playedpick and roll, but it was one
way, right?
At Tennessee State, we didn'tplay, I didn't play at all.
(46:37):
At Panola, we ran like a fiveout system.
So I never really got introducedto playing pick and roll.
Isn't that crazy?
Yeah.
Wow.
Wow.
But that's my point though.
Yeah.
So now I love that perspectivethough.
Yeah.
So now it, it makes a lot ofsense.
It goes back to you were talkingabout, throwing different
(46:57):
cultures and that melting potinto the roster.
The more change, the moreeverybody has to be humble, you
have to be vulnerable, you haveto figure it out, right?
Yep.
Yep.
Brain has to work faster.
Yep.
I love that you're throwinginto, you have to concentrate.
Yeah, I haven't thought about itthat way.
And I love that perspective,coach.
I love it.
(47:18):
That's gonna make me thinktonight.
I'm gonna be up late thinkingabout that.
But there are some aspects offinishing at a university that
are beneficial.
Like you have a, always have ahome.
Yeah.
They'll take care.
Stuff like that.
I wish was different, but do youfeel like Texas Tech is your
alma mater?
Do you feel that in your Yeah,for sure.
Okay.
(47:39):
For sure.
Because, I have that, and I feellike there's, when you play at
four schools in four years, it'sokay where's your love at?
It's like dating four girls atthe same time.
It's yeah.
You know who you really gettingto know, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, but tech definitely is,tech is my alma mater.
Like it's.
Yep.
All right.
I figured as much.
I wanna roll into recruitingwith you, but I wanna talk about
(48:00):
this a little bit.
You've coached some studs.
You've coached Bones Highland.
You've coached Isaiah Wong.
What, and you've seen guys likeHartenstein and you've seen
Schroeder at that, when theywere young.
What separates elite players,guys that can really do it at
that D one level have a chanceto play?
Pro and make money, even thougheverybody's making money now,
(48:21):
but to go and be a pro aftercollege, what separates that
elite player from just the goodones in your eyes?
I think it's two scales, right?
So you have a player that'selite that because the way the
NBA is now, I think it's moregeared towards development.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So if I take a six nine kid witha seven three wingspan.
(48:45):
That can dribble and shootthrees.
I feel like I could I think theN NBA's kind of taken those guys
to develop them.
Yeah.
To be good players.
But guys like Bones, they, theguys that work really hard to
get there.
I think the mentality, like justthe mental toughness that they
have to overcome.
(49:06):
I mean think about this bones,when he was a junior going to
senior in high school, he jumpedout a second story window from a
fire.
Yeah.
He missed his whole senior year.
So think about that type ofadversity.
Yeah.
And then two years into yourcollege career, so literally two
(49:27):
years later, you're a firstround draft pick.
Crazy player of the year in theA 10.
It's just a different mentality,like Yeah.
And that's what I think thedifference is with some kids.
Some kids are able to lock in,have the self-belief,'cause
that's a huge part of it.
Believing in themselves and thenthey're surrounded by people who
also believe in them.
(49:49):
Yeah.
So it's a lot.
It's your environment, it's yourmentality and it's if you fit
that mold to, to go to that nextlevel.
And then we've got guys thatwere superstars that didn't have
anybody to believe in him, hadnothing but adversity.
And had to figure out how tobelieve in themselves.
Yeah, for sure.
Or, yep.
Yeah.
(50:09):
It's just the look at any NBA,any NFL draft man, any major
league baseball draft, and youlook back the last 10 years,
nobody knows how to pick thatleague kid.
Nobody does.
May, maybe three or four guyswill hit the first round, but
it's amazing how many guys hitround two.
(50:29):
Yep.
Football round six.
Six, six round baseball, the13th round.
I love that.
I love that idea.
And it comes down to having theright coach.
You look at these kids that hadyou in Germany.
They might have gone the otherway.
They might have never blossomedif they wouldn't have had you to
inspire them and teach them andgive them the opportunity they
had.
So that's some cool stuff.
(50:51):
And a lot of'em are stillplaying.
I think it's like there's sevenor eight of'em that are playing
professional right now, soThat's cool.
It's pretty cool.
And these are kids that couldn'tdribble with their left hand.
They played football, soccer allthe time, right?
Yeah.
It is just development, likedeveloping the kid holistically.
As it's just something that'sspecial, man, I think it's
(51:12):
really important that as coacheswe try to do that and in, in
recruiting, like you said, likethe ones that are obvious are
easy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Stevie Warner can see them, butif you have a kid that has
potential to be special.
That's where I think separatesthe evaluation and recruiting.
(51:33):
Yeah.
What can they be in one year,two years from now?
Yeah, even three years from now.
What are they gonna look likethree years from now?
Yeah.
Evaluation isn't what today.
It's the projection of what downthe road.
Absolutely.
Coach, this has been a joy.
If you've got the time, I'd liketo take about 10, 15 minutes,
talk some recruiting with you atthat, at your level.
And yep.
We'll come back and do segmenttwo here.
(51:54):
But thanks for doing this today,man.
It was a lot fun.
No, no problem.
I appreciate it, man.
For sure.
I.
That was Will Chavis, assistantmen's basketball coach at Drexel
University, and what aconversation it was.
What stands out to me the mostabout Will isn't just that he
was Bobby Knight's first recruitat Texas Tech, or that he's
coached at every level andplayed professionally, or that
(52:17):
he's even helped develop NBAplayers.
It's his heart.
It's his ability to takeeverything he's learned, the
good, the heart, and thehumbling, and pour it back into
the people he leads.
He's proof that the best coachesare still students.
Students of the game, studentsof life, and students of the
people they serve.
And I think that's what makeshim so special.
Will's story reminds us thatleadership isn't about control
(52:40):
or credit.
It's about consistency andhumility and impact.
If you enjoyed today's episode,I'd love for you to subscribe,
rate, and please leave acomment.
I wanna know how this is goingfor you.
Do you want changes?
Do you want more?
Do you want less?
I'd appreciate it if you'd letme know.
Any feedback is good feedback.
(53:01):
It really helps others find theshow as well, and keeps these
conversations going.
You can also learn more about mywork from my recruiting books
and journals to classes andspeaking
engagements@coachmattrogers.comand don't miss part two of my
conversation with Coach Chavisthis Monday on the Significant
Recruiting podcast where we goeven deeper into recruiting,
(53:23):
philosophy, player development,and what young athletes need to
hear most right now.
Until next time, stay focused onwhat you can control.
Stay humble and keep chasingsignificance.
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