October 26, 2025 • 23 mins
🎙️ Built for the Modern Game: Will Chavis on NIL, the Portal, and the Future of Recruiting 🏀
In this episode of The Significant Recruiting Podcast, host Matt Rogers sits down with Will Chavis, Assistant Men’s Basketball Coach at Drexel University, for a powerful and practical look at today’s ever-changing recruiting world.
From being Bobby Knight’s first recruit at Texas Tech to playing professionally across Europe and now mentoring Division I athletes, Coach Chavis has lived every corner of the basketball journey. What makes his story remarkable is not just his experience — it’s his perspective.
In this conversation, Will breaks down the realities of NIL and the transfer portal in a way few coaches can. He explains how both can serve athletes when handled with purpose and honesty — and why the best programs are the ones willing to adapt with integrity.
Whether you’re a recruit, a parent, or a coach, this episode is a must-listen for anyone trying to understand what it really takes to thrive in the modern era of college athletics.
🔗 Learn more about Coach Will Chavis: drexeldragons.com/staff-directory/will-chavis/553
💡 Explore recruiting tools, books, and resources for families and coaches: CoachMattRogers.com
Learn more and connect with Matt Rogers here: https://linktr.ee/coachmattrogers
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:10):
Welcome back to The SignificantRecruiting Podcast.
I'm your host, Matt Rogers.
If you caught last week'sepisode on the Significant
Coaching Podcast, you alreadyknow how powerful my
conversation was with WillChavis assistant men's
basketball coach at DrexelUniversity Will's story from
being Bobby Knight's firstrecruit at Texas Tech to playing
professionally overseas, and nowmentoring young men at the
(00:33):
division One level is full ofperspective, humility and heart.
But this episode goes evendeeper.
We shift from the sidelines tothe recruiting trail where Coach
Shavis shares what he looks forin recruits, how he evaluates
character and why?
Honest communication stillmatters in a world that
sometimes still feels defined byNIL and transactional
(00:55):
relationships.
What I really loved about Willwas his take on the NIL and the
transfer portal.
I've never had a coach explainboth realities so clearly, and
with such balance.
He brought me full circle on thevalue of both, and I love his
excitement about adapting to thechanges in today's recruiting
world.
He's truly built for this modernera of college athletics.
(01:18):
And if you're looking for moredirection, resources, and tools
to help you navigate therecruiting process, whether
you're a student athlete, aparent, or a coach, visit and
subscribe to my weekly coachingnewsletter@coachmattrogers.com.
On my website, you'll find mybooks, my journals and online
classes, plus weekly coachingand recruiting tips.
Designed to help families takeownership of their journey.
(01:41):
Alright, let's get into part twoof my conversation with coach
Will Chavis of Drexel men'sbasketball.
Okay.
Coach will I love your story.
I love how you've gotten to thispoint.
I love how the fact that whenyou were a young man, you
thought you weren't gonna be acoach.
And now I've talked to you foran hour, man, and I see nothing
but a coach.
(02:02):
I see a guy.
I can't wait for you to get yourfirst job at that D one level
then, so I'm just, I'm pumpedabout following your career.
'cause I love your demeanor.
I love how.
You've always been that guythat's done what's best.
For the people around you.
I'm gonna be a distributor whenI need to be.
I'm gonna take over a game whenI need to be.
(02:23):
I'm gonna hand the keys over toa kid that I think just needs
that opportunity.
Every story you've told in ourfirst segment was about you
thinking about other people inthe humility you live your life
with.
And I know some people can saythe same thing about me, how
selfish we can all be atsometimes, but you've got it in
your heart.
It's obvious to me.
(02:44):
What we need and more coaches.
So I wanna talk some recruitingwith you if you're cool with
that.
Yep.
Alright.
For most people and most kids,the idea of playing at a Drexel,
playing D one, playing at aTexas Tech is such a goal.
You can't walk into a gymwithout a kid going.
You asking'em where their dreamschool is, it's gonna be a D
(03:05):
one.
Nobody says Co college or juco.
They all say, I wanna play atDrexel.
I won't play at Indiana.
I won't play at Tex Tech.
For you, what's the reality forall these kids in terms of being
able to play for a Drexel?
First?
I think they need to understandthemselves.
And I always think is reallygood.
(03:26):
People always say Comparison isthe thief of joy.
I I always disagree with that,right?
Because I think comparison helpsyou to understand who you are
sometimes, right?
If I'm a, I'm not say this, I'mmean, but if I'm a five foot
three point guard, right?
And.
The going size for a point guardis 6 2, 6 3.
(03:49):
I have to be exceptional.
Not only do I have to beexceptional, I have to have
multiple people believe in me atmultiple stops.
And that's where I think likethe reality doesn't set in for a
lot of kids because they justdon't know.
Yeah.
And you don't know what youdon't know.
So just that exposure to seeinglike what it really looks like.
(04:10):
That's why I always invitepeople out to practice, to, kids
just to see this is what itlooks like.
This is what your position lookslike.
Yeah.
And I think that's really like awake up call for a lot of kids.
I played D three, so for me,when I graduated Charlie Spoon
Hour, Blake, Charlie Spoon Hourhired me.
I was the camp.
(04:30):
I ran Coached at his camps.
Yep.
And Charlie would let me runwith the guys'cause they were
there all summer, so for me itwas like stepping on the court
the first time and I'd beendriving 60 mile an hour on the
highway my whole life.
And I was surrounded by jetsgoing 500 mile an hour.
I don't know if I would'veunderstood that.
(04:52):
I did a little bit.
'cause we would scrimmageUniversity of Iowa in the off
season.
So I got to see, I gotta seewhat Big 10 basketball was in
the pace.
But when I got to scrimmageevery single day with these guys
that are all six, six to 6 11, 7feet tall, and they could all
run like deer.
They all had all could doeverything with the ball in
their hands.
There was no there was nobodythat was just limited to just
(05:14):
dribble in or shoot andeverybody could do a little bit
of everything.
It amazed me about what thatlevel represents because I was,
I always felt I was a good ballplayer.
Yeah.
But I stepped on the floor forthe first time and tried to
scrimmage every day with thoseguys and I was like, man, I.
I need to be outside thebathroom handing out towels.
(05:35):
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
I need to be pouring waterbecause I'm not near as good as
I thought.
How often are you talking tokids where you have to explain
that before the reality hitshim?
Right now it is difficultbecause we're limited in how
many, contact to kids,basically, because the events
(05:59):
that we can go to, the amount ofhours you can talk to kids is,
it is really limited.
But I will say this, I getemails constantly from kids
saying that they're, they wannaplay a Drexel, they get their
GPA, their size, there's theirstatistics, and I don't answer
all of them.
Yeah, but some of'em that I doanswer, yeah, I do try to invite
(06:22):
them to practice just to see ifI look at their profile and I
say, okay, this kid is in a goodleague.
He's not bad.
I'll try to check it out.
I'll do some background on it.
Yeah.
And most of the time, elitecamp, stuff like that, just get
a different type of setting forthat kid.
Will help them out tremendouslyto see where they are.
And I've had kids, I've had kidsthat have come to Elite camp and
(06:46):
leave Elite Camp and say coach Ineed to work a lot.
Like I'm not where I thought Iwas.
Yeah.
So it's just that's great.
Yeah.
It's just that immersion, likein an environment, right?
That kids are not used to,they're not in their, they're
not on their comfort level.
They're on their comfort zone.
I think that's really importantfor kids nowadays because if I'm
(07:08):
averaging 30 points a game, butI'm playing against and I'm six
foot five and I'm a center andthe tallest guy I'm playing is a
six foot is, there's no way Ican be a six foot five center in
division one.
That's right.
When you literally come to acampus and you see a seven foot
one dude standing next to youand you gotta score a basket on
him.
Yep.
I think you think.
Differently about the real, thereality of where you are.
(07:32):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I beg parents to do that fortheir kids.
Go, don't go to just a D onecamp.
You gotta go somewhere whereyou're playing against a.
10, 15 guys, gals, whoever,what, boy or girl.
You gotta play against thatlevel.
Yes.
Not just one kid on the floorthat can play on that level.
You gotta play, you wanna playagainst five kids that can play
(07:54):
at that level.
So you understand the pace, thespeed, the physicality.
It's an entirely differentworld.
Yes.
And D one, D two, D three.
None of'em are easy.
None of'em are easy.
We have a kid on our team now.
That average 22 points a game inD three and he fits right in
with us.
Like he's not Yeah, he's, hedoesn't skip a beat.
He pushes the pace.
He's fast.
(08:14):
Yeah.
He's a demon on defense.
Yeah, he fits right in.
So no level is easy playingcollege basketball is not an
easy thing.
It's really not.
When I was coaching it was, Iloved going to big tournaments
'cause I'd sit there with.
With everybody, you'd sit therewith everybody and watch guys
and I was a D three guy, so Iwas always looking for that
(08:36):
diamond in the rough, that kidcould probably play D two, but
maybe I could steal him, yep,yep.
Something we could get out ofhim and get'em convinced.
And I remember just, I'd sitthere with self and Chesky and
all those guys and it's amazinghow everybody could, we could
all figure out who the talentwas on the floor in about 12
seconds.
(08:56):
You could see it, but howquickly a one of those guys
would say, no, I'm notrecruiting him.
He can play, but I'm not gonnarecruit him.
What is that for you?
What are those red flags whenyou know a guy can play but
you're like.
I don't think he's the right guyfor us.
At Drexel, coach Spiker, we havesomething called kgs.
(09:18):
So like our kind of guy, right?
And I'll give you an example ofA OKG.
So my f like the first time Iwent out on the road with Coach
Spiker it was a kid that I knewfrom coaching in high school.
His name was Kobe McGee, right?
So Kobe was.
(09:38):
At a charter school inAllentown, pa.
So he wasn't in Philly, wasn'tin the city, about an hour and a
half from Philly.
But he had everything that youneeded for it was like a
prototypical two guard size,foot speed, athleticism
wingspan, everything right shot.
It looked really good.
(09:59):
But the one thing that coach wasreally impressed about with Kobe
was that when he came out thegame.
He went down the line toeverybody on the bench and gave
him a high five, right?
Yeah.
And then sat down, cheered histeammates on, right?
Yeah.
When his teammates needed water,he's the best player on the
team.
He went, got water for histeammate and gave him water in
(10:23):
the same game.
He rolls his ankle, couldn't goback in the game, but he was the
biggest cheerleader on the benchfor his team.
So when a kid like that.
Who's not entitled, right?
Yep.
Who respects the game, respectshis teammates and just shows a
level of appreciation for peoplein general.
(10:43):
Yep.
That's what you, that's aspecial kid.
That's what you look for.
Can't have enough of those kids.
And we lost that kid.
We lost that kid because hedeveloped at Drexel and now he's
gonna play at Florida State.
Yep.
Yep.
That's the world we live in now.
Yep.
And I love coach.
'cause I asked you an open-endedquestion and you want the
(11:05):
positive route.
You could have said, Matt, I sawthis kid play and you did all
these things wrong.
You chose the kid that dideverything and because I think
that's what kids need tounderstand.
You're always watching.
We're always watching.
Yep.
We're watching dead balls.
We're watching free throws.
We're watching timeouts.
We're watching warmups.
We're watching how you treatyour mom and dad after the game.
(11:26):
How do you handle getting markedat?
Absolutely.
Let's talk about what you guysare thinking about when you're
building out your roster everyyear, because now you can hop
into the portal and go.
We need one of those.
We need one of those.
You can get what you want.
How are you seeing recruitinghigh school kids?
(11:47):
Because we just had kaari, wejust had patino on national tv.
Say we're not recruiting highschool kids anymore.
Okay.
And I understand that and Idon't blame'em for that.
And I, I don't have a problemwith it.
Where are you guys at with that?
Patino and Kalari, they havemillions of dollars to buy
players.
Yep.
To buy our players.
Yeah, exactly.
We absolutely will take highschool players.
(12:07):
We took three of'em already fornext year.
Fantastic.
So we still believe indeveloping the kid and the kids
that we have coming in, they'rereally good kids.
Like I said, they're kgs andthey're going to develop because
they work hard.
They have the right attitude.
They respect the process.
They respect the game, theyrespect themselves.
(12:28):
They come from good families andwe know they, they're going to
compete, so they're going to getbetter.
In terms of our level, it isdifficult because again, like I
said, a lot of it is going backto that professional comment.
I said the main thing you wantto do and have is retention.
You want to try to retain theplayers that you have.
(12:49):
Yeah.
But when those absorbent numberscome out, you almost can't help
per se.
Just like Marcel, you have to gosee you.
Good luck.
So that's the difficult part ofthe level that I'm at is it is
hard to retain players when youdon't have that, budget.
(13:12):
Like a Power five?
Yeah, because they're just gonnabuy your players.
They're just going to outage youevery single time.
So what does it do to your heartwhen you see the tournament play
out?
The sweet sixteens got seventeams that don't have that dough
don't have that money.
What does that mean to you?
(13:32):
I think they're going away fromthat.
Honestly, that's not gonnahappen anymore.
We're not gonna see Butler inthe championship game anymore.
It's gonna be really difficult.
To see a Cinderella, right?
Yeah.
First of all, the tournament wasalways structured to have
Cinderellas.
(13:52):
Yeah.
Like I used to watch and followit.
It was structured to haveCinderellas.
Yeah.
I don't think they did thatlast, the last couple years.
Yeah.
Just looking at the tournament,how many teams from the SEC made
the tournament?
It was cra It was a crazyamount.
The Big 12 it's gonna be reallydifficult for a team with a at
large bid.
(14:13):
To not a team with the at largebid, to not outplay a team with
the automatic bid from a smallerconference.
It's gonna be really difficult.
It's gonna be really difficultfor that to happen.
And the reason why I say that isbecause when you can put
together, when you can puttogether a team based on.
(14:36):
Because the reason why ithappened before was because I
could retain my players.
That's right.
So I had guys that were fouryear guys.
Yeah.
That understand my system, thatunderstand everything that's
going on.
Strength.
Yeah.
They grew up, they're strong.
So now they can compete withthose guys.
Yep.
But now when a power five comesin and takes your guys, you're
(14:57):
starting over.
You're trying to get guys tomatch, you're trying to get
everything to mesh.
You're just at a deficit rightthere.
There's no excuses in it.
You still could do a good joband it can happen.
Yeah.
But I think it's going to bemore rare that happens.
You you saw some flaws in thatlast year though.
You saw some entitlement loosesome games for St.
(15:19):
John's.
Yep.
Entitlement lost that game.
Yep.
Their best player could notadapt.
To not be there to score itjust, wiped out the team.
Completely wiped out the team.
Yep.
Hunger wasn't there.
Consistency wasn't there?
Effort wasn't there.
Hypothetically, you're amid-major, you're running a new
(15:40):
program all by yourself, it'syour program.
How do you compete at thatlevel?
Is it style?
Can you throw like Princetonused to do and Air Force used to
do you know, or throw adifferent style out there?
Can you do it with size?
Can you go, we're gonna putthree, seven footers on the
(16:00):
floor.
We're gonna put four pointguards on the floor.
Like a couple teams in yourleague used to do.
We're gonna put big guy in four,four guards that can all run and
shoot.
And how would you attack thattoday to get to the Sweet 16?
I think it's a combination ofall that, but also luck.
'cause you have to run into theright teams, right?
Yeah, it's true.
Yeah.
(16:21):
That's your style is I thinkShaheen Holloway, when he made
the Elite eight, I think he raninto those teams that were like,
that he, that his style of playYeah.
Worked well.
Worked well for, yep.
So that's part of it too howyou're set up and who you can
beat.
But I do think you have to havean identity.
I'm not gonna say so much astyle, but I think you have to
(16:43):
have kids that, that know whatyou're playing for.
Yeah, right?
Yeah.
That, that give of themselves,give up themselves for others
and that believe that they canwin that game because if kids
don't believe that they can winthat game, then that, that's
where it gets really difficult.
(17:04):
Another aspect of it as well,because we know they have like
really, crazy exotic budgets atthe Power five.
Yeah.
But you have to be able todevelop kids off the court in
the weight room.
Nutrition, all that stuffmatters.
Yeah.
It all matters.
And I'm saying that because Iknow how it is at the Power five
(17:24):
level.
Yeah.
And when you can have.
When you can make kids feel likewhen they step on that floor,
they can compete physically andthey know it.
Just like you said, you couldstep, you stepped on, on the
court with the D one guys.
Yeah.
And you knew it right away.
Oh man, this is different.
Your kids cannot feel that.
(17:45):
Yeah.
When they step on the power fivefloor, it's true.
Or in NCAA tournament game, theyhave to feel like we're right
here with them.
If we change jerseys, youwouldn't know who is who.
How important is thatnon-conference season to get
them there?
Mentally you've done everythingyou can do as a coach.
How important is that?
(18:06):
You're playing a Kansas, oryou're playing a North Carolina,
you're playing a Florida stateearly on.
Yep.
To test that resolve.
I think it's super importantbecause if you don't do it,
you'll never know.
And I think you do have to havethe right team.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't think you just go inthere and take a beating.
If you think you have the teamthat can do it.
Yeah, I think you should do it.
(18:27):
Yeah.
Because if you do it, I thinkit'll just raise the level of
your players.
Yeah, because I wanted to saythis when you were saying it.
If you stayed in that practicefor multiple days with those
guys or even a year, yeah.
You probably would've adaptedjust how human beings are.
You would've adapted somethingin your game and your body and
(18:48):
your mind.
Yep.
To be able to stay on that floorwith those guys.
It did.
It happened that summer.
After two, three weeks, I waslike, okay, this is my lane and
I can have an impact here.
There you go.
Because I could defend, I couldhandle the ball and I had
vision.
I could get the ball outta myhands.
I could get it to the guys thatcould do something.
And I knew where trouble was andI knew, if I was gonna get in
(19:10):
the lane, man.
I had to get rid of it realquick, yep.
So I did and it was great.
It was great for me as a player.
It just sucked that I was 23, 24years old and I had nothing more
to do with it, but I was, Istarted to figure out what I was
capable of at that point.
Yep.
Coach, this is awesome.
I wanna finish with a little bitof advice from you.
I wanna start with giving someadvice to that 15, 16-year-old
(19:33):
that has big dreams of playingin college and they want to get
recruited.
What advice would you give them?
I always hear a saying thatsuccess is not for the chosen
few, but for the few who choose.
Love that.
I just think when you want to,when you want something, you
have to choose.
To put in the sacrifice, to putin the work to try to attain
(19:55):
your goal.
'cause that's the prerequisite,that's the baseline is just
working to get where you want togo.
So for that young kid, I like, Ialways say, it's always the
work.
You might not get what you want,right?
It might not work out for you,but at least you know that when
you go and look in the mirror,you gave everything you had.
(20:15):
To try to accomplish your goal.
And if you fall short, you canlive with yourself.
That's right.
But if you didn't giveeverything you, you had, then it
is gonna be difficult to livewith the result.
To live with the regret.
Yeah.
Regret.
Yeah.
Yep.
Great advice.
I love that quote.
I'm gonna steal that one fromyou too.
You got it.
You got it.
Same advice for parents.
(20:38):
Parents.
Yeah.
What advice would you give momand dad that are going through
this journey with their kid?
Their kid wants to play?
What advice would you give?
It's not your journey, it's the,it is your child's journey,
right?
So you have to let them enjoythe process, enjoy, embrace
failure, right?
And just be there to, to supportthem with their ideas.
(21:02):
With their wants.
And then encourage them to conto continue to work hard.
Yeah.
That's it.
That's life.
You have to work hard.
You don't work hard.
You can't expect anything.
Yeah.
So go back and listen to ourfirst segment.
When you talked about your triphome your drive home with your
dad, your pops.
Yep.
Sound like your dad understoodthat man.
He understood.
(21:22):
This is he did you, do you stilllove it?
You played well.
Did you have fun?
Yep.
That's so great.
Coach, you are awesome.
I'm so happy that we gotintroduced to each other.
This has been a fun, funconversation.
I am a huge fan of yours and I'mgonna be following Drexel Ball
all year.
But thanks for doing this.
Oh, thanks man.
Thanks for having me, man.
I really appreciate it.
(21:42):
It was fun.
Good luck this year, my friend.
All right.
Thanks Matt.
That was Will Chavis, assistantmen's basketball coach at Drexel
University.
And if you listen closely, youprobably felt the same thing I
did.
Will doesn't just talk aboutadapting to change.
He lives it.
His perspective on NIL and thetransfer portal.
It isn't about fear orfrustration.
(22:02):
It's about opportunity andgrowth and meeting this
generation of athletes wherethey are.
He understands that leadershiptoday requires flexibility and
empathy and a willingness toevolve, and he's doing all that
while staying true to who he is.
For more direction and guidance,I encourage you to learn
more@coachmattrogers.com andreach out anytime to schedule a
(22:23):
conversation or ask questions.
Whether you're recruit a parentor a coach, that's where you'll
find tools and resources to helpyou navigate the journey with
confidence and purpose.
Until next time, stay focused onwhat you can control.
Stay humble and keep chasingsignificance.
Welcome back to The SignificantRecruiting Podcast.
I'm your host, Matt Rogers.
If you caught last week'sepisode on the Significant
Coaching Podcast, you alreadyknow how powerful my
conversation was with WillChavis assistant men's
basketball coach at DrexelUniversity Will's story from
being Bobby Knight's firstrecruit at Texas Tech to playing
professionally overseas, and nowmentoring young men at the
(00:33):
division One level is full ofperspective, humility and heart.
But this episode goes evendeeper.
We shift from the sidelines tothe recruiting trail where Coach
Shavis shares what he looks forin recruits, how he evaluates
character and why?
Honest communication stillmatters in a world that
sometimes still feels defined byNIL and transactional
(00:55):
relationships.
What I really loved about Willwas his take on the NIL and the
transfer portal.
I've never had a coach explainboth realities so clearly, and
with such balance.
He brought me full circle on thevalue of both, and I love his
excitement about adapting to thechanges in today's recruiting
world.
He's truly built for this modernera of college athletics.
(01:18):
And if you're looking for moredirection, resources, and tools
to help you navigate therecruiting process, whether
you're a student athlete, aparent, or a coach, visit and
subscribe to my weekly coachingnewsletter@coachmattrogers.com.
On my website, you'll find mybooks, my journals and online
classes, plus weekly coachingand recruiting tips.
Designed to help families takeownership of their journey.
(01:41):
Alright, let's get into part twoof my conversation with coach
Will Chavis of Drexel men'sbasketball.
Okay.
Coach will I love your story.
I love how you've gotten to thispoint.
I love how the fact that whenyou were a young man, you
thought you weren't gonna be acoach.
And now I've talked to you foran hour, man, and I see nothing
but a coach.
(02:02):
I see a guy.
I can't wait for you to get yourfirst job at that D one level
then, so I'm just, I'm pumpedabout following your career.
'cause I love your demeanor.
I love how.
You've always been that guythat's done what's best.
For the people around you.
I'm gonna be a distributor whenI need to be.
I'm gonna take over a game whenI need to be.
(02:23):
I'm gonna hand the keys over toa kid that I think just needs
that opportunity.
Every story you've told in ourfirst segment was about you
thinking about other people inthe humility you live your life
with.
And I know some people can saythe same thing about me, how
selfish we can all be atsometimes, but you've got it in
your heart.
It's obvious to me.
(02:44):
What we need and more coaches.
So I wanna talk some recruitingwith you if you're cool with
that.
Yep.
Alright.
For most people and most kids,the idea of playing at a Drexel,
playing D one, playing at aTexas Tech is such a goal.
You can't walk into a gymwithout a kid going.
You asking'em where their dreamschool is, it's gonna be a D
(03:05):
one.
Nobody says Co college or juco.
They all say, I wanna play atDrexel.
I won't play at Indiana.
I won't play at Tex Tech.
For you, what's the reality forall these kids in terms of being
able to play for a Drexel?
First?
I think they need to understandthemselves.
And I always think is reallygood.
(03:26):
People always say Comparison isthe thief of joy.
I I always disagree with that,right?
Because I think comparison helpsyou to understand who you are
sometimes, right?
If I'm a, I'm not say this, I'mmean, but if I'm a five foot
three point guard, right?
And.
The going size for a point guardis 6 2, 6 3.
(03:49):
I have to be exceptional.
Not only do I have to beexceptional, I have to have
multiple people believe in me atmultiple stops.
And that's where I think likethe reality doesn't set in for a
lot of kids because they justdon't know.
Yeah.
And you don't know what youdon't know.
So just that exposure to seeinglike what it really looks like.
(04:10):
That's why I always invitepeople out to practice, to, kids
just to see this is what itlooks like.
This is what your position lookslike.
Yeah.
And I think that's really like awake up call for a lot of kids.
I played D three, so for me,when I graduated Charlie Spoon
Hour, Blake, Charlie Spoon Hourhired me.
I was the camp.
(04:30):
I ran Coached at his camps.
Yep.
And Charlie would let me runwith the guys'cause they were
there all summer, so for me itwas like stepping on the court
the first time and I'd beendriving 60 mile an hour on the
highway my whole life.
And I was surrounded by jetsgoing 500 mile an hour.
I don't know if I would'veunderstood that.
(04:52):
I did a little bit.
'cause we would scrimmageUniversity of Iowa in the off
season.
So I got to see, I gotta seewhat Big 10 basketball was in
the pace.
But when I got to scrimmageevery single day with these guys
that are all six, six to 6 11, 7feet tall, and they could all
run like deer.
They all had all could doeverything with the ball in
their hands.
There was no there was nobodythat was just limited to just
(05:14):
dribble in or shoot andeverybody could do a little bit
of everything.
It amazed me about what thatlevel represents because I was,
I always felt I was a good ballplayer.
Yeah.
But I stepped on the floor forthe first time and tried to
scrimmage every day with thoseguys and I was like, man, I.
I need to be outside thebathroom handing out towels.
(05:35):
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
I need to be pouring waterbecause I'm not near as good as
I thought.
How often are you talking tokids where you have to explain
that before the reality hitshim?
Right now it is difficultbecause we're limited in how
many, contact to kids,basically, because the events
(05:59):
that we can go to, the amount ofhours you can talk to kids is,
it is really limited.
But I will say this, I getemails constantly from kids
saying that they're, they wannaplay a Drexel, they get their
GPA, their size, there's theirstatistics, and I don't answer
all of them.
Yeah, but some of'em that I doanswer, yeah, I do try to invite
(06:22):
them to practice just to see ifI look at their profile and I
say, okay, this kid is in a goodleague.
He's not bad.
I'll try to check it out.
I'll do some background on it.
Yeah.
And most of the time, elitecamp, stuff like that, just get
a different type of setting forthat kid.
Will help them out tremendouslyto see where they are.
And I've had kids, I've had kidsthat have come to Elite camp and
(06:46):
leave Elite Camp and say coach Ineed to work a lot.
Like I'm not where I thought Iwas.
Yeah.
So it's just that's great.
Yeah.
It's just that immersion, likein an environment, right?
That kids are not used to,they're not in their, they're
not on their comfort level.
They're on their comfort zone.
I think that's really importantfor kids nowadays because if I'm
(07:08):
averaging 30 points a game, butI'm playing against and I'm six
foot five and I'm a center andthe tallest guy I'm playing is a
six foot is, there's no way Ican be a six foot five center in
division one.
That's right.
When you literally come to acampus and you see a seven foot
one dude standing next to youand you gotta score a basket on
him.
Yep.
I think you think.
Differently about the real, thereality of where you are.
(07:32):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I beg parents to do that fortheir kids.
Go, don't go to just a D onecamp.
You gotta go somewhere whereyou're playing against a.
10, 15 guys, gals, whoever,what, boy or girl.
You gotta play against thatlevel.
Yes.
Not just one kid on the floorthat can play on that level.
You gotta play, you wanna playagainst five kids that can play
(07:54):
at that level.
So you understand the pace, thespeed, the physicality.
It's an entirely differentworld.
Yes.
And D one, D two, D three.
None of'em are easy.
None of'em are easy.
We have a kid on our team now.
That average 22 points a game inD three and he fits right in
with us.
Like he's not Yeah, he's, hedoesn't skip a beat.
He pushes the pace.
He's fast.
(08:14):
Yeah.
He's a demon on defense.
Yeah, he fits right in.
So no level is easy playingcollege basketball is not an
easy thing.
It's really not.
When I was coaching it was, Iloved going to big tournaments
'cause I'd sit there with.
With everybody, you'd sit therewith everybody and watch guys
and I was a D three guy, so Iwas always looking for that
(08:36):
diamond in the rough, that kidcould probably play D two, but
maybe I could steal him, yep,yep.
Something we could get out ofhim and get'em convinced.
And I remember just, I'd sitthere with self and Chesky and
all those guys and it's amazinghow everybody could, we could
all figure out who the talentwas on the floor in about 12
seconds.
(08:56):
You could see it, but howquickly a one of those guys
would say, no, I'm notrecruiting him.
He can play, but I'm not gonnarecruit him.
What is that for you?
What are those red flags whenyou know a guy can play but
you're like.
I don't think he's the right guyfor us.
At Drexel, coach Spiker, we havesomething called kgs.
(09:18):
So like our kind of guy, right?
And I'll give you an example ofA OKG.
So my f like the first time Iwent out on the road with Coach
Spiker it was a kid that I knewfrom coaching in high school.
His name was Kobe McGee, right?
So Kobe was.
(09:38):
At a charter school inAllentown, pa.
So he wasn't in Philly, wasn'tin the city, about an hour and a
half from Philly.
But he had everything that youneeded for it was like a
prototypical two guard size,foot speed, athleticism
wingspan, everything right shot.
It looked really good.
(09:59):
But the one thing that coach wasreally impressed about with Kobe
was that when he came out thegame.
He went down the line toeverybody on the bench and gave
him a high five, right?
Yeah.
And then sat down, cheered histeammates on, right?
Yeah.
When his teammates needed water,he's the best player on the
team.
He went, got water for histeammate and gave him water in
(10:23):
the same game.
He rolls his ankle, couldn't goback in the game, but he was the
biggest cheerleader on the benchfor his team.
So when a kid like that.
Who's not entitled, right?
Yep.
Who respects the game, respectshis teammates and just shows a
level of appreciation for peoplein general.
(10:43):
Yep.
That's what you, that's aspecial kid.
That's what you look for.
Can't have enough of those kids.
And we lost that kid.
We lost that kid because hedeveloped at Drexel and now he's
gonna play at Florida State.
Yep.
Yep.
That's the world we live in now.
Yep.
And I love coach.
'cause I asked you an open-endedquestion and you want the
(11:05):
positive route.
You could have said, Matt, I sawthis kid play and you did all
these things wrong.
You chose the kid that dideverything and because I think
that's what kids need tounderstand.
You're always watching.
We're always watching.
Yep.
We're watching dead balls.
We're watching free throws.
We're watching timeouts.
We're watching warmups.
We're watching how you treatyour mom and dad after the game.
(11:26):
How do you handle getting markedat?
Absolutely.
Let's talk about what you guysare thinking about when you're
building out your roster everyyear, because now you can hop
into the portal and go.
We need one of those.
We need one of those.
You can get what you want.
How are you seeing recruitinghigh school kids?
(11:47):
Because we just had kaari, wejust had patino on national tv.
Say we're not recruiting highschool kids anymore.
Okay.
And I understand that and Idon't blame'em for that.
And I, I don't have a problemwith it.
Where are you guys at with that?
Patino and Kalari, they havemillions of dollars to buy
players.
Yep.
To buy our players.
Yeah, exactly.
We absolutely will take highschool players.
(12:07):
We took three of'em already fornext year.
Fantastic.
So we still believe indeveloping the kid and the kids
that we have coming in, they'rereally good kids.
Like I said, they're kgs andthey're going to develop because
they work hard.
They have the right attitude.
They respect the process.
They respect the game, theyrespect themselves.
(12:28):
They come from good families andwe know they, they're going to
compete, so they're going to getbetter.
In terms of our level, it isdifficult because again, like I
said, a lot of it is going backto that professional comment.
I said the main thing you wantto do and have is retention.
You want to try to retain theplayers that you have.
(12:49):
Yeah.
But when those absorbent numberscome out, you almost can't help
per se.
Just like Marcel, you have to gosee you.
Good luck.
So that's the difficult part ofthe level that I'm at is it is
hard to retain players when youdon't have that, budget.
(13:12):
Like a Power five?
Yeah, because they're just gonnabuy your players.
They're just going to outage youevery single time.
So what does it do to your heartwhen you see the tournament play
out?
The sweet sixteens got seventeams that don't have that dough
don't have that money.
What does that mean to you?
(13:32):
I think they're going away fromthat.
Honestly, that's not gonnahappen anymore.
We're not gonna see Butler inthe championship game anymore.
It's gonna be really difficult.
To see a Cinderella, right?
Yeah.
First of all, the tournament wasalways structured to have
Cinderellas.
(13:52):
Yeah.
Like I used to watch and followit.
It was structured to haveCinderellas.
Yeah.
I don't think they did thatlast, the last couple years.
Yeah.
Just looking at the tournament,how many teams from the SEC made
the tournament?
It was cra It was a crazyamount.
The Big 12 it's gonna be reallydifficult for a team with a at
large bid.
(14:13):
To not a team with the at largebid, to not outplay a team with
the automatic bid from a smallerconference.
It's gonna be really difficult.
It's gonna be really difficultfor that to happen.
And the reason why I say that isbecause when you can put
together, when you can puttogether a team based on.
(14:36):
Because the reason why ithappened before was because I
could retain my players.
That's right.
So I had guys that were fouryear guys.
Yeah.
That understand my system, thatunderstand everything that's
going on.
Strength.
Yeah.
They grew up, they're strong.
So now they can compete withthose guys.
Yep.
But now when a power five comesin and takes your guys, you're
(14:57):
starting over.
You're trying to get guys tomatch, you're trying to get
everything to mesh.
You're just at a deficit rightthere.
There's no excuses in it.
You still could do a good joband it can happen.
Yeah.
But I think it's going to bemore rare that happens.
You you saw some flaws in thatlast year though.
You saw some entitlement loosesome games for St.
(15:19):
John's.
Yep.
Entitlement lost that game.
Yep.
Their best player could notadapt.
To not be there to score itjust, wiped out the team.
Completely wiped out the team.
Yep.
Hunger wasn't there.
Consistency wasn't there?
Effort wasn't there.
Hypothetically, you're amid-major, you're running a new
(15:40):
program all by yourself, it'syour program.
How do you compete at thatlevel?
Is it style?
Can you throw like Princetonused to do and Air Force used to
do you know, or throw adifferent style out there?
Can you do it with size?
Can you go, we're gonna putthree, seven footers on the
(16:00):
floor.
We're gonna put four pointguards on the floor.
Like a couple teams in yourleague used to do.
We're gonna put big guy in four,four guards that can all run and
shoot.
And how would you attack thattoday to get to the Sweet 16?
I think it's a combination ofall that, but also luck.
'cause you have to run into theright teams, right?
Yeah, it's true.
Yeah.
(16:21):
That's your style is I thinkShaheen Holloway, when he made
the Elite eight, I think he raninto those teams that were like,
that he, that his style of playYeah.
Worked well.
Worked well for, yep.
So that's part of it too howyou're set up and who you can
beat.
But I do think you have to havean identity.
I'm not gonna say so much astyle, but I think you have to
(16:43):
have kids that, that know whatyou're playing for.
Yeah, right?
Yeah.
That, that give of themselves,give up themselves for others
and that believe that they canwin that game because if kids
don't believe that they can winthat game, then that, that's
where it gets really difficult.
(17:04):
Another aspect of it as well,because we know they have like
really, crazy exotic budgets atthe Power five.
Yeah.
But you have to be able todevelop kids off the court in
the weight room.
Nutrition, all that stuffmatters.
Yeah.
It all matters.
And I'm saying that because Iknow how it is at the Power five
(17:24):
level.
Yeah.
And when you can have.
When you can make kids feel likewhen they step on that floor,
they can compete physically andthey know it.
Just like you said, you couldstep, you stepped on, on the
court with the D one guys.
Yeah.
And you knew it right away.
Oh man, this is different.
Your kids cannot feel that.
(17:45):
Yeah.
When they step on the power fivefloor, it's true.
Or in NCAA tournament game, theyhave to feel like we're right
here with them.
If we change jerseys, youwouldn't know who is who.
How important is thatnon-conference season to get
them there?
Mentally you've done everythingyou can do as a coach.
How important is that?
(18:06):
You're playing a Kansas, oryou're playing a North Carolina,
you're playing a Florida stateearly on.
Yep.
To test that resolve.
I think it's super importantbecause if you don't do it,
you'll never know.
And I think you do have to havethe right team.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't think you just go inthere and take a beating.
If you think you have the teamthat can do it.
Yeah, I think you should do it.
(18:27):
Yeah.
Because if you do it, I thinkit'll just raise the level of
your players.
Yeah, because I wanted to saythis when you were saying it.
If you stayed in that practicefor multiple days with those
guys or even a year, yeah.
You probably would've adaptedjust how human beings are.
You would've adapted somethingin your game and your body and
(18:48):
your mind.
Yep.
To be able to stay on that floorwith those guys.
It did.
It happened that summer.
After two, three weeks, I waslike, okay, this is my lane and
I can have an impact here.
There you go.
Because I could defend, I couldhandle the ball and I had
vision.
I could get the ball outta myhands.
I could get it to the guys thatcould do something.
And I knew where trouble was andI knew, if I was gonna get in
(19:10):
the lane, man.
I had to get rid of it realquick, yep.
So I did and it was great.
It was great for me as a player.
It just sucked that I was 23, 24years old and I had nothing more
to do with it, but I was, Istarted to figure out what I was
capable of at that point.
Yep.
Coach, this is awesome.
I wanna finish with a little bitof advice from you.
I wanna start with giving someadvice to that 15, 16-year-old
(19:33):
that has big dreams of playingin college and they want to get
recruited.
What advice would you give them?
I always hear a saying thatsuccess is not for the chosen
few, but for the few who choose.
Love that.
I just think when you want to,when you want something, you
have to choose.
To put in the sacrifice, to putin the work to try to attain
(19:55):
your goal.
'cause that's the prerequisite,that's the baseline is just
working to get where you want togo.
So for that young kid, I like, Ialways say, it's always the
work.
You might not get what you want,right?
It might not work out for you,but at least you know that when
you go and look in the mirror,you gave everything you had.
(20:15):
To try to accomplish your goal.
And if you fall short, you canlive with yourself.
That's right.
But if you didn't giveeverything you, you had, then it
is gonna be difficult to livewith the result.
To live with the regret.
Yeah.
Regret.
Yeah.
Yep.
Great advice.
I love that quote.
I'm gonna steal that one fromyou too.
You got it.
You got it.
Same advice for parents.
(20:38):
Parents.
Yeah.
What advice would you give momand dad that are going through
this journey with their kid?
Their kid wants to play?
What advice would you give?
It's not your journey, it's the,it is your child's journey,
right?
So you have to let them enjoythe process, enjoy, embrace
failure, right?
And just be there to, to supportthem with their ideas.
(21:02):
With their wants.
And then encourage them to conto continue to work hard.
Yeah.
That's it.
That's life.
You have to work hard.
You don't work hard.
You can't expect anything.
Yeah.
So go back and listen to ourfirst segment.
When you talked about your triphome your drive home with your
dad, your pops.
Yep.
Sound like your dad understoodthat man.
He understood.
(21:22):
This is he did you, do you stilllove it?
You played well.
Did you have fun?
Yep.
That's so great.
Coach, you are awesome.
I'm so happy that we gotintroduced to each other.
This has been a fun, funconversation.
I am a huge fan of yours and I'mgonna be following Drexel Ball
all year.
But thanks for doing this.
Oh, thanks man.
Thanks for having me, man.
I really appreciate it.
(21:42):
It was fun.
Good luck this year, my friend.
All right.
Thanks Matt.
That was Will Chavis, assistantmen's basketball coach at Drexel
University.
And if you listen closely, youprobably felt the same thing I
did.
Will doesn't just talk aboutadapting to change.
He lives it.
His perspective on NIL and thetransfer portal.
It isn't about fear orfrustration.
(22:02):
It's about opportunity andgrowth and meeting this
generation of athletes wherethey are.
He understands that leadershiptoday requires flexibility and
empathy and a willingness toevolve, and he's doing all that
while staying true to who he is.
For more direction and guidance,I encourage you to learn
more@coachmattrogers.com andreach out anytime to schedule a
(22:23):
conversation or ask questions.
Whether you're recruit a parentor a coach, that's where you'll
find tools and resources to helpyou navigate the journey with
confidence and purpose.
Until next time, stay focused onwhat you can control.
Stay humble and keep chasingsignificance.
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