November 28, 2025 • 45 mins
🎙️ Leading With Purpose: Findlay’s President & VP Share the Playbook
In this week’s Significant Coaching episode, Matt sits down with two remarkable leaders shaping the future of the University of Findlay — Dr. Katherine Fell, President, and Brandi Laurita, Vice President for Student Affairs & Athletics.
Together, they break down what it takes to build a campus where people feel known, supported, and challenged to grow. From leadership clarity to campus culture to the powerful relationship between academics and athletics, this conversation is packed with insight for coaches, educators, and leaders at every level.
Learn more about today’s guests:
🌐 Dr. Katherine Fell: https://www.findlay.edu/about-uf/president
🌐 Brandi Laurita: https://www.findlay.edu/search/Faculty-Staff?fsid=000501f4
🌐 Matt Rogers / Significant Coaching: https://coachmattrogers.com
If you care about leadership that actually transforms people, you won’t want to miss this episode.
🎧 Listen now and subscribe for weekly coaching and recruiting tools that help you stay focused, stay humble, and keep chasing significance.
Learn more and connect with Matt Rogers here: https://linktr.ee/coachmattrogers
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:10):
Welcome back to the SignificantCoaching Podcast.
I'm your host, Matt Rogers.
Today we're joined by twoleaders who embody what it means
to build a student-centeredcampus and a university athletic
experience with clarity andcompassion and purpose.
Dr.
Catherine fell President andBrandy Loreta, vice President of
Student Affairs and Athletics atthe University of Fin.
(00:31):
We're kind enough to join me fora fun and enlightening
conversation on why the collegeexperience is so valuable and
still necessary in a time wherethe purpose and value of a
college education seems toconstantly be in question.
In this conversation, they sharehow they shape a campus where
people feel known, supported,and challenged to grow.
(00:52):
You'll hear their approach tobuilding trust, aligning teams,
and creating an environmentwhere academics and athletics
elevate one another instead ofcompeting for space.
This is a powerful look intowhat leadership should look like
at the collegiate level.
And as always, you can learnmore.
Read this week's blog.
And explore the significantrecruiting
(01:12):
resources@coachmattrogers.com.
Let's jump in.
Here's my conversation with Dr.
Catherine Fell and Brandy Lata.
Hello, you two.
Welcome to the SignificantCoaching Podcast.
It is an honor to have you onthe show, Dr.
Fell and Brandy, who's almost adoctor, we're on our way, which
on our way she's one of ourstudents.
(01:35):
Come to think of it.
That's fantastic.
I'm gonna call you at some pointand pick your brain.
I need you to motivate me to gofinish mine.
So do it such, I'm such a badclassroom student, so I need as
much motivation as I can get.
I wanna jump into this, and Iknow this is always a fun
question.
I wanna take you back to 16,17-year-old versions of you, or
(01:59):
even your 22-year-old version ofyou.
Could either of you imaginebeing a president or a vice
president of a university atthat point?
Were you even thinking about it?
Brandy, you can begin.
I have lots of things I'd liketo say about that.
I will say it had never evencrossed my mind.
(02:19):
I didn't know what a vicepresident or a president did.
Not saying that I actually havea clue right now.
But, I had no idea.
I thought I was gonna be ateacher teach phys ed.
That was my undergraduatedegree.
That's what I always wanted todo.
And I lasted one year in thatrole before I went back and
started working at a highereducation institution.
So at 16, 17, or even 22 had noidea or thought that this is
(02:46):
where the road would lead me.
That's great.
I lasted three years, just soyou know, in the classroom, and
I was, and then I was off touniversity.
Yep.
Dr.
Fell, how about you?
So I grew up in a very smalltown.
I was the first member of myfamily to attend college.
I was excited.
I knew from a very young agethat I would go to college and I
(03:11):
was going to major in English,which I did.
I be my plan was to become ahigh school English teacher, but
I kept going soon after Ifinished college onto a master's
degree and taught at the collegelevel.
But my first few days on acollege campus are memorable.
I, first of all, my roommatedidn't.
(03:32):
Appear I hadn't met her and shedidn't arrive until the next
day.
And I spent most of the firstnight very cold because I
couldn't figure out how to workthe thermostat.
So that was not a very promisingstart.
Fortunately I had abilitieselsewhere to get me through, but
it turned out to be a greatexperience for me.
(03:53):
And I remember those early daysand those years.
Finally, I'm still very closefriends with people I met at the
university that at SouthernState College it's now a
university, but it was SouthernState College in Magnolia,
Arkansas.
What is it now?
It's now Southern StateUniversity.
(04:15):
Southern State?
Interesting.
Okay.
Do they have an athleticprogram?
Oh, yes, they do.
They're oh, mule writers.
It's the home of the Mulewriters.
I'm shocked you've not heard ofthem, Matt.
I am too.
Because I'm I do a lot of workwith the University of Ozark, so
I, oh yes.
So I'm beautiful place.
I'm beating myself up that Ihaven't heard of it.
(04:37):
That's great.
Just so you know, I, that was myplan too.
I grew up in a town of 2000people.
And I was gonna be a high schoolEnglish teacher.
I have a degree in English.
Okay.
Then we have a lot in common.
So we have a lot in common.
And I was gonna, like you,Brandy, I was gonna be a teacher
and a coach, and that was gonnabe my career.
And then at 26 somebody offeredme a head college basketball
job.
(04:57):
And then I was an AD a yearlater and then the, everything
changed.
So that's hard work.
All of those things are hardwork.
They are hard work.
Here's my big question totransition from that, because I
work with a lot of studentathletes.
I work with teenagers andfamilies every day, and I want
them to understand that.
(05:19):
I think it's absolutely bonkersto think about your major at 16
or 17 because most people don'tend up.
Where they thought they weregonna be.
So I try and get them to thinkabout, what do you think?
Will you enjoy?
What do you think?
If you had to do something for10 years straight, what do you
think you'd enjoy doing?
And don't put a, don't put aprofession behind it, but put
(05:41):
the idea, is it working withkids?
Is it working with animals?
Is it working in a classroom?
What is it that makes you happy?
So where do you start?
With that 18-year-old that getsto your campus that maybe hasn't
thought that way, maybe has saidI'm gonna be a doctor, but has
no idea how hard that first yearof biology or chemistry's gonna
(06:02):
be.
Where do we start with thoseyoung people when they get to
you?
I think we begin, I think we'regood at the University of
Findlay at beginning withhonesty, and we don't start
simply by saying, what do youplan to major in?
But we fought.
We try to approach our studentsas human beings, as multifaceted
(06:25):
human beings who may have dreamsand clear plans.
At least they think they do, andthose may change, but we.
Want to educate the wholeperson.
And I think we made that clearfrom the very beginning.
We try not to divide them intoacademic groups so severely that
(06:48):
they don't dare move across thelines.
Yeah.
And I think Brandy would agreewith that.
Yes, absolutely.
And I would say, from arecruiting perspective, when
student athletes are coming in,we really talk about picking the
university, not the sport.
Because anything could happen inthe sport.
And so you're not picking aplace to go based on the coach
(07:09):
or on the sport in particular.
That should be the icing on thecake that you really have to
find a place that's home, aplace that you can have life
outside of sport, and so reallyfocusing more on their academic
and educational experience thanthe sport.
That has helped us withretention and with engaging
students across campus outsideof athletics.
(07:29):
So I think it goes into thatwhole developing them as full
people.
Not just in a particular majoror a particular sport.
We all have read the researchthat those first five weeks of a
college student's life arereally key to the retention, to
their health, to keeping them oncampus.
What is that?
(07:50):
What does not only what doesthat look like at Finley, but
what's the purpose behind thosefirst five or six weeks for you
guys?
What are you trying toaccomplish in your orientation
period?
Just to get them to understandthey're not alone.
This is gonna be hard and if youask for help, the help's gonna
be there.
Where?
Where does that begin for you?
(08:13):
I think we, again, are honestwith them about the fact that we
understand the excitement andthe stress of those first weeks.
We do know that if studentsdon't make acquaintances,
friendly acquaintances, andmaybe even real friends, and
those first two months, they'reunlikely to connect.
(08:36):
And that is top of mind for usin those early days.
I remember a really brilliantnew student who came from
several states away with hisfather and through after our art
ceremony, which is a beautifulceremony when we welcome our new
students into the arts.
And our tradition is that youdon't dare walk back under the
(08:56):
arts until graduation, or youmight not graduate.
But the art ceremony is a timealso for the parents to
separate.
They're supposed to go away, andwe have other events immediately
following the art ceremony forstudents.
But this particular student onthat afternoon.
(09:18):
Was very upset and his fathercame in to our building.
The arch is right in front ofour building near the street,
and he came in looking for somehelp because his son was just
suddenly very upset and unhappy.
Brandy, you may remember that Ithink you were standing in the
hall with me when that happened.
And so I said if he's willing tocome in, let's sit down and talk
(09:40):
to him.
And that was.
Helpful to the student.
I think it was very helpful.
He's was, he's an, he's abrilliant student.
He's done very well at theuniversity, but he was not
interested in all the hoopla,all of the games, all of the
forced friendliness, all of theforced meeting and answering
(10:01):
silly questions.
From his point of view, hedidn't say that.
He was very polite.
Very quiet and very polite, andI said, I'm president and I'm
telling you don't have to do it.
Just don't worry about it.
Are you worried about yourclasses?
Are you worried about studying?
Are you anxious about that?
He said, no, and the student isbrilliant.
He came with a great.
(10:22):
Academic pedigree.
I said, then don't go nobody.
It's not required.
And if anybody asks you aboutit, tell him you have an
agreement with the president.
And he did not attend all of theevents.
And when I saw him on Sundayevening, this was on a Friday,
when I saw him on Sunday eveningat a campus picnic, he was fine.
(10:45):
And I think he has remainedfine.
But Brandi, you are up close andpersonal with more students than
I am.
Talk about this.
Yeah, and I would say thatexperience probably helped us
shape how we do orientationtoday.
Because everything in the past,historically, we have done large
events, large groups, fun loudthings to get them excited and
(11:08):
engaged.
And I think that experiencehelped us realize that's not for
everyone.
And so we really adaptedorientation that yes, we
absolutely have loud, large, funevents, so we hope all of the
incoming students will attend.
But we also have more quietevents that they can go in small
groups to make some of thoseconnections.
But it's not overwhelmingbecause we've realized that
(11:30):
large group atmosphere isn't foreveryone.
And that's not how they're gonnamake connections.
They're gonna feel overwhelmed,they're gonna have some anxiety,
and that we really need tostructure orientation in a way
that allows them to find theirown space.
And so we have.
Adjusted and adapted.
And I think that really it'smaking those connections.
We pair our incoming class withan orientation leader, a group
(11:52):
of about 20 students, so theyhave an upperclassmen to help
them, not just orientation, butthroughout the whole first year.
And that's been very helpful forour students as they engage and
adapt to their new experiencehere on campus.
I love that.
That's such a big part of it, ishaving that older person there
that's gone through everythingthey've, they're about to go
(12:12):
through and say, Hey it's okay.
And it's okay to be not okay.
It's, you're not alone.
Kathy it's funny I don't know ifyou two have seen this movie
about what you just said, themovie Miracle, about the 1980
hockey team that won the Olympicyes.
A long time ago.
Yes.
But there's a great line in it,and I always remember this.
Where the star goalie doesn'tfill out this big 200 page
(12:37):
personality test that the coachwants all the boys to fill out.
And so the coach shows up at hisdoor and says, why didn't you
fill this out?
And the kid said, I didn't thinkit was necessary.
I think it's foolish.
It's going back to this youngman that wouldn't wouldn't
partake in the fun and gamesthat you were asking them to do.
And the coach, he looked at himand go.
Then be the guy that chose notto take this test.
(13:00):
That's the person I wanna see.
That's great.
Yes.
I just, there's just somethingabout that, at 17, 18, 19, we
have so much of what we call afalse courage almost.
And to have somebody remind usthat, okay, if you're gonna have
that courage, be that personthough.
Be that person that challengesus here, challenges your
classmates, challenges yourprofessors.
(13:22):
Be the person you're capable of.
Don't just be that person that'sbrave for one minute, right?
So I, I love that mindset andthat's what I thought about that
story.
I wasn't gonna go here, but Ithink it's important to talk
about what you two have to dealwith.
Let's talk about faculty buy-in.
(13:43):
Okay.
That's a good point.
They love it when, with ourfaculty, our fa I will say this
I've been in higher educationnow for 40 years.
I was at another institution inLouisiana for 24 years and I'm
in my 16th year here.
And I will say that our facultyhere are by and large.
(14:05):
The most open and honest andcooperative of groups I have
known, not only on campuseswhere I've worked, but through
other presidents and othercampuses, but they're humans and
the, and they will buy in andwork hard and try, but in times
of difficulty then they retreata bit.
(14:30):
And they want to find easyanswers or easy places for
blame, but they can be pulledback in to reason if you listen
to them and talk to them.
And because they're in, they're,they feel vulnerable.
And I think the way to addressthat is straight on and to admit
(14:51):
your own vulnerability, but thatyou're staying the course and
you will lead through it.
And we need them to lead throughit.
Now we have a few notableexceptions who keep everything
interesting as any group ofhumans would have.
Of course, I'm not trying topretend that we have created
heaven here.
It's not heaven, but there areheavenly moments.
(15:13):
Yes.
And my point of the question waswe don't hire professors
necessarily.
To help us with the whole persongrowth.
We want that.
But we hire people'cause they'refantastic economics professors,
they're fantastic historyprofessors or biology professors
(15:33):
and their mindset is, I'm gonnabe the best at what I do and I'm
gonna teach these kids all thethings that I've learned over
the years.
How do we get the faculty toperson where.
Interview skills are important.
Communication skills areimportant.
Learning how to study the rightway, learning how to be an adult
(15:55):
the right way because they'rethe ones that have the hands
into these kids every day.
How do we get the faculty to buyinto that responsibility when
maybe that wasn't their focus tostart with when they took the
job?
It's a good question, Brandi,I'll let you offer your opinion
there.
(16:15):
I think we manage it with manyof our professors.
Okay.
Yeah.
And I would say that it's alittle bit of our culture.
So we engage faculty in therecruiting process.
So students are meeting withfaculty when they're coming to
campus for their visit.
They're involved in ourorientation process, so they
will lead service projects,which is a huge part of our
campus culture, is that service.
(16:37):
And so all of our freshmen doservice projects that are led by
faculty and staff.
And so I think some of thoseimportant touch points early
help our faculty with thatbuy-in to see the students as
people outside of the classroombefore the classroom.
Practices start.
I think that helps us with a legup.
And then continuing involvingand engaging them as Dr.
(16:59):
Fell mentioned, right?
It's not utopia there, there'salways an oddity, but right in
large, we've got great facultywho are willing to go above and
beyond to make a call and say,Hey, I'm worried about this
student.
I don't have the answer, but canyou help?
And I think that is part of ourculture on campus, which makes
it a really great collaborativeexperience inside of the
(17:20):
classroom and out.
I love that I'd add this exampleor piece of evidence, Matt, at
the end of each academic year asstudents are graduating, they're
given the opportunity to writethank you notes to faculty or
administrative staff, and thatcan be at every level, thank you
notes to people who've made adifference.
(17:43):
And there are hundreds andhundreds of them.
And many of them to faculty andalso to other people on campus
who help them.
So I feel that is.
Very good evidence that ourstudents know that most, almost
everyone on this campus caresabout them as individuals and
(18:04):
they're not just using them asan opportunity to show their own
knowledge, but they are there toteach them and to enhance the
field of education with otherpeople who know things too.
Yeah.
I went to co college in CedarRapids, Iowa School, very
(18:26):
similar to Finley, and mygreatest memories were the
professor that would take meacross the street and have a
pizza with me, or inviteExactly.
Invite me to their home and havea dinner, or Sure.
Say, Hey Matt, let's go for awalk.
Which college did you say youwent to?
Matt Cole College, COE in CedarRapids, Iowa.
I yeah.
I'm good friends with the personwho just retired from Wartburg.
(18:49):
Yeah.
As president.
Yeah.
Another great school.
I know the area.
It's a beautiful place.
It is.
I loved it there.
And I loved that I went to asmall private there's so much
that I gained because of it.
I'm gonna just stay on facultyjust for a little bit, because I
just talked to a president acouple weeks ago and we had a
long conversation.
He really wants to notnecessarily reinvent.
(19:10):
How we go about teaching ourstudents, but he's really
cautious about making sure we'redoing the things to get those 18
year olds.
By the time they're 22 ready togo out into the world.
And this is pretty crazy and I'msure you've heard this, I'm sure
you've had this conversation,Kathy, at some levels, but he's
(19:33):
thinking about a 1 3, 1 semesterwhere that first semester, the
first month, we're doing lifeskills before we go, even go
into the classroom.
We're learning how to takenotes, we're turning how,
learning how to prepare.
We're, and then that continuesthrough senior year where.
That last month, maybe beforegraduation, you're taking
(19:53):
classes on applying for a loanor filling out your resume or
doing interview skills.
So I really dynamic stuff and hefinished the conversation with,
it's never gonna happen'cause Ican't get my faculty there.
Okay.
But that was his, that's histhought process.
When you think about that birthto death model.
(20:16):
Of Finley what you want frombeginning to end, and that the,
when I say birth to death, thatmight be when they're 80 years
old and they're still coming tofootball games, they're still,
giving, writing a check everyyear.
What does that look like for youin those first four years?
What and think out of the boxhere, gimme some of those things
you've thought about.
What would you, if in a perfectworld, if you get everybody on
(20:37):
board, what would you dodifferently now?
To help prepare for the world tobe an adult that maybe you're
not doing right now as much asyou'd like.
I, I think that I think we havemade strides probably like the
president you're referring to,but we're not completely there.
(20:58):
I think students need.
A combination of anadministrator at some level, a
staff member at some level, whocares for them.
Usually that person would be instudent affairs, a faculty
member or two, and upperclassmenwho can I'd like to see us do
(21:19):
this, have groups of people towhom they can go.
Yeah, who can help them.
You don't necessarily need aprofessor to teach you how to
keep up with the syllabus ororganize your time or do all
those things.
There are lots of people oncampus who do not have degrees
in education who could helpstudents manage their lives.
(21:44):
And feel that they have someoneto turn to.
We could share thatresponsibility.
And in that sense, bringeveryone who works here into the
fold and into the calling ofteaching, including
housekeepers.
Our housekeepers in theresidence halls make a big
impact on our students.
Absolutely.
And those students make animpact on them.
(22:06):
So I think.
Turning the, in everything we dointo a teaching opportunity
would be helpful and exciting.
Not only helpful for thestudents, but exciting for them
and for those who areparticipating, who are actually
paid to be here and not paying.
I think there's a book in there,Kathy, I'm gonna help you write
(22:28):
it at some point.
Okay.
I love, alright, let's work onthat.
Okay.
Yeah, because I think that'swhat I don't think if my parents
didn't go to college and I don'tthink my parents understood what
I was going to get out ofcollege because the people that.
I loved were the people at thecafeteria that served me every
day that I became good friendswith, and I, learned about their
children and got to meet theirchildren and the physical plant
(22:50):
people and the security people.
Those are the people that Iloved.
I was a blue collar kid and Ijust appreciated Yes.
How hard they were working forme, right?
So I love that global educationthat you're talking about.
Where do we go?
For athletics, because athleticsis doing some of this stuff
(23:11):
automatically, right?
Brandy, where you're coming inand you immediately have a
family, right?
You immediately have a team.
You immediately have that oneperson who's watching your
academics, making sure you'rehealthy, is seeing you every day
watching your nonverbals.
How do we take that athleticmodel?
And help all the kids, all thenon-athletes with that same
(23:32):
thing.
Is that possible when you can'tafford to hire 50 mental health
professionals?
You don't have the budget forthat.
So how can we use athletics as amodel with that?
Yeah I would say, we're doing agreat job in athletics trying to
spread that out.
We have a good peer mentorprogram on campus that is run
(23:52):
through our briefer center forglobal engagement, and so that
allows us to connectnon-athletic, right?
Our student athletes call themnas.
Non-athletic, regular people whodon't have that connection, who
need somebody to go to, whodon't have the built-in friends
that we like to say athleticsprovides.
So peer mentors also, we have agreat system on campus called
(24:13):
Starfish, which the connectionof the name and what it does is,
I can't figure out thatconnection, but it allows us to
connect.
Anybody that touches a studenttogether.
So any professor that teachesthem in class, their advisor,
the health center counseling ouroiler success Center for all all
over success and coaches.
(24:34):
With a student.
So if a coach is seeing, hey,I'm a little worried about this,
or Hey, I'm noticing that thisstudent, something's happening
in their life.
Everybody that touches thatstudent then knows in a, an
appropriate confidential level.
So we're not sharing anythingthat shouldn't be shared, but it
really allows us.
To connect all of the dots withthose student athletes.
And so for non-student athletes,it's connecting everyone else,
(24:57):
right?
So their advisor knows, Hey, Isee you just got an A in
chemistry because that wasposted and you got a kudo, and
that's awesome.
That's fantastic.
And so there's somebody elsethat is connecting and making it
a big deal.
When they do something great andif things start to slip a
little, somebody's following upand saying Hey.
What do we need to do to get youback on track?
(25:17):
And so that system helps connectthe people.
The system doesn't do the work,but it allows us to connect and
communicate in a way thatstudent athletes, non-student
athletes, right?
So if somebody's in the banddirector gets it and says, Hey,
I, what's going on here withpsychology?
Because something's off, or yourprofessor's worried about you.
So there's always a kind of asecond layer of somebody.
(25:39):
Trying to have a touch point andconnect, which I think has been
really helpful on our campus.
For a dad who's sending adaughter to college in a year
and a half.
That web that you're talkingabout, that, that's so
meaningful to me.
Now, I'm, let's talk aboutparents a little bit.
I know I'm hurting you too.
I'm talking about faculty andparents, but I'm gonna I think
it's important that I let youtwo pontificate a little bit
(26:02):
today because you're in theheart of this.
And Kathy, I just talked to apresident who you know very
well.
He told me, he goes,'cause I wasasking him similar questions and
he goes, Matt, I think we mightbe catering too much to these
kids.
I think there's maybe too muchnurturing and not enough nature
(26:23):
to get, to build a littletoughness in them and to build a
little, this is what life isgonna be like.
How do we talk to parents aboutthose things so they understand?
Yeah, that's a good question.
This has to be a learningprocess.
We can't hold your hand 24 hoursa day.
You can't drop your child off.
It's not daycare.
There's gotta be that other sideto that.
(26:45):
What does that sound like toparents like me?
We have a good orientation forparents when they come, and then
even in the early months of thesummer when they come for
registration not just the firstday or so when they're moving
their children in we cover allthe things that you would expect
(27:07):
and we give some examples.
And I always point out to them,having brought up five sons and
one daughter, I have lots ofexamples of what, of the
panicked calls that I get, and Itry to tell them from my point
of view as a student andcertainly as a mother when they
should.
(27:28):
Worry and get involved inprobably when they should hold
off.
And they love that lesson beforethey drop their children off.
They're all in.
They go, oh, that's brilliant.
But when the child's not withthem, they, for some of them,
forget, we had a mother who,everybody, every campus has
(27:49):
stories, but we've had motherswho will email.
My, me and several others, ifher daughter or son is in the
wrong building, looking for aclassroom, we've had this
happen.
I don't know that you want toput that out publicly because I
don't want to be, I don't wantthis mother to hear me say this,
(28:12):
and I don't even, I'm not even.
I've had that story a hundredtimes.
Okay.
Could be hundred different of,you could say every campus has
this story.
Yes, but I think one dear soul,one of the faculty members who
knows that the student, and Idon't know that the student was
worried at all, but obviouslyher mother contacted her, or she
contacted her mother to say shewas looking for a classroom.
(28:33):
And I doubt the student knew shewas.
She was contacting thepresident's office and several
other people.
But we did have one facultymember who said, I'll just be
the point person.
And I, and honestly, I thinkthat problem eventually worked
itself out.
Sure.
And I'm happy for that.
But it is hard and we forgethaving, we, we are so seasoned
(28:57):
and we have done this so manytimes to welcome students and
sent our own children away thatit's easy to forget how
difficult it can be.
Yes.
And I think we need to besympathetic, but not not
enabling.
Are you the one that must And Iaspire.
(29:18):
I aspire to that.
That's all I can say.
I do too.
Accomplished.
I'm not sure, but I aspire toit.
Brandi, you get more calls thanI do.
The balance is really important.
My first question is usually,does your son or daughter know
your calling?
I love that.
And if the answer is no, then wesay, okay, let's pause.
(29:40):
Happy to do a conference callwith your son or daughter.
Let's add them to theconversation.
A lot of times that stops thecall, right?
Because their first thing theysay is.
Don't tell them I'm calling.
So if we can add the student inor add them on an email, a lot
of times it's very clear thatthey did get a panicked phone
call with half the informationnot the full story.
(30:01):
And so if they can get the fullstory, a lot of times their
students are just calling.
Not that they need them to fixit, they just need them to
listen.
And reminding them thatlistening is doing something.
It doesn't mean you have to pickup the phone or send off an
email.
To try to fix their problem.
But just listen, help'em walkthrough that.
There's resources.
But yeah, that's usually myfirst question is do they know?
(30:24):
And if the answer's no, then wepause the conversation until we
can bring the student in.
And a lot of time that problemis solved very quickly.
For all the parents listeningwithout you knowing it, Brandy
just gave you really goodadvice, let you know.
I was just on a new campus thatI hadn't been on in a long time,
and I had to go to a, an officethat was deep into campus and
(30:45):
the parking lot was far away,and it was really big campus.
I talked to four people that gotme to that building just because
I said, I'm lost.
Can you help me get to buildingDEC?
So I think the more we can teachour 16 and 17 year olds to just
ask for help, use yoursurroundings a lot.
(31:07):
A lot can be fixed reallyquickly and it gets them talking
and it gets them beingopen-minded.
It gets them coming outta theirbox a little bit, but it's a
challenge.
What's your favorite part ofeach of your jobs?
Brandy?
I have many, I, as long as youdon't ask what the least
favorite parts are, we can talkall day.
(31:28):
No, but I think my favorite partis watching them come in.
Our students come in as young,kind of wide-eyed, 17 or 18 year
olds, and leaving as not theirbest self, but as a different
version of themselves, right?
They're gonna continue to growand develop as people, but
really watching them throughthat journey and watching how.
(31:48):
They're not just being impactedby campus and the people they're
engaging with, but how they'rereally impacting all of us.
I know for me, I've got a, Ihave a 12 and a 14-year-old and.
The amount of impact they havehad from student spending
Thanksgiving or Easter with usfrom different countries and
what they're learning that'ssomething that I can't replicate
(32:09):
anywhere else and it's soimpactful for us.
And then to have those students,that's their best memory, right?
They get to have an AmericanEaster and they didn't even know
what Easter was.
My 12-year-old is explaining tothem what Easter is.
So those are the moments and thememories and really when you can
connect that, that's my favoritepart.
12 years.
12 year olds are great atexplaining things, aren't they?
(32:30):
They love Oh yes.
Mine, mine talks pretty muchnonstop.
So she's got, I have one in myhouse too.
Explanation Itest that Dr.
Fell.
What's the, some of the greatthings about being a president
of a university?
It really is a privilege.
It's a, it's tremendousresponsibility and a privilege.
I got to meet so many studentsand families.
(32:55):
They appreciate my time withthem and they tell me, they
answer my questions and they'rerespectful and polite and.
I can usually get them pastsimply being respectful and
polite into real conversations.
(33:16):
And my best.
Part of this job is to get toknow students and to know them
well, to remember them.
I had a student we, I have apresident's student council, and
we meet not too often to take uptoo much of their time, but they
love it and I love it.
And I'll ask them questionsabout campus and they will give
(33:39):
me honest answers and they'llbring ideas.
To me.
And one of them a few weeks ago,we, after a meeting, he said,
Dr.
Fell and he's graduating.
He's 21 maybe 22.
I, that's a relevant point herebecause he said, on my bucket
list is to sit down and have aglass of wine with you.
(34:02):
And I said, how old are you?
And he said.
21, I think he said.
I said, then let's have a glassof wine.
I have wine.
He said I actually brought abottle with me.
This is after a council meeting,had it in his car, and there
were a couple of his friendsstill there.
I said, are you all 21 as wellor older?
And they said, yes.
I said, okay.
(34:22):
Then we will each have a glassof wine.
So we sat around in AdirondackTerra under the tent in my
backyard.
And had a glass of wine and awonderful conversation.
And I visit with this studentoften about a number of very
important campus matters, and Ibenefit from it.
(34:42):
I, he enjoys it.
And he's forthcoming with hisrespect and his care and his
honesty about what's great aboutthe university and a few things
that need to be, improved and Ifind that very valuable.
And that's just an example ofwhat I find great about being a
(35:03):
president.
I can gain access and I can giveaccess, and I want people to
learn from that, to enjoy thatas much as I do.
I want our students and ourfaculty and staff.
To know that, and I believe thatmost of them do.
I can't get to all the thousandsof students, but I think the
(35:23):
reputation of the university ismirrored.
I hope it in its best parts, bythe way, that I open this office
to people and I'm available tothem.
So that's what I love aboutbeing a president.
Yeah.
Not so much the budget meetings,not so much the awakenings at
(35:45):
four in the morning.
Yeah.
But I do love the job.
All of the good parts make thehard parts worth it.
You both have given me.
So much inspiration to get backinto higher ed.
'cause those are the things Ilove and I miss.
It's amazing how these youngpeople keep us young even when
(36:06):
we don't get the sleep we wantand we're up all night thinking
about, of course, yes.
Or their issues and how to helpthem with them and how to deal
with those big problems.
I'd be remiss because athleticsis such a big part of my world.
If I didn't ask you both aboutthe future of the NCAA and
specifically your level NCAAdivision two.
(36:28):
Brandi, you start, I have a lotto say about it.
Yeah.
But Brandi is the expert.
Yeah.
I would say the uncertainty andthe continuing, evolving
landscape is keeping us on ourtoes.
We're really having to rethinkhow we do things with the
transfer portal.
That's probably the biggestimpact for us.
Not as much of the NIL.
(36:49):
We're seeing a little bit of NILbut not to the extent that large
division one schools are seeing,but really making sure that
we're keeping students engaged.
And we don't have the luxury asmuch anymore to bring in
students and develop and growthem as people.
That's always been our model.
Potential develop, and then theyhave success.
(37:10):
And so we're still doing that,but we've gotta add in, right?
There's transfers and if they'renot getting the playing time
they want, right?
Are they leaving?
We've been fortunate that wehaven't had a lot of student
athletes enter the transferspace, but that continues to
evolve.
In division two, we're lookingat.
Do we allow all students to, toplay for five years?
We'll vote on that in January.
And what does that look like?
(37:31):
What does that model change asWe have so many students coming
in with, college credit Plus,and so they can finish a degree
in three years.
Now we're gonna give them fiveyears.
What does that look like?
And the thought of that, thesame old is gonna make us be
successful.
I think that anybody inathletics would say, if you're
not thinking ahead, you're beingpassed up.
And so you've gotta be able tobe adaptive and think about
(37:53):
things differently, which issometimes a little bit hard for
some of our coaches that havelong tenures, right?
They're changing and having tochange not only the way they
recruit, but the way they coach.
So it's evolving and changing.
And I don't know if we're headedin the right direction to be
honest with you.
I'm not convinced of that yet,but I guess only the future will
tell.
Do you think we're go ever gonnaget to a point where we have
(38:14):
structure to the portal and theNIL that allows us to really
teach kids about the loyalty andthe commitment and.
And make that education theirpriority.
Are we gonna get back to that orare we gonna head stay down This
wild west journey we're on.
(38:36):
I'm a little bit worried that,the genie's out of the bottle
and I don't know how we bring itback to a way where those things
are important.
I think that the value ofeducation has been lost in many
people's eyes when we thinkabout college athletics.
Yeah.
And here at, the University ofFinlay, that's.
That's the forefront and that'swhat they're doing.
And we've been fortunate to beable to have great student
athletes who come here becausethey know they can do high
(38:59):
academics, high athletics.
And so if the academic partisn't important anymore, what
does that mean?
So I'm hopeful that we can finda path back.
I'm just not sure what that is.
So open to any suggestions youmay have?
I've got lots.
But we'll save that for anotherconversation.
I'm interested in how you both.
Maybe are changing your hiringpractices with coaches and
(39:20):
athletic directors.
Are you looking for somethingdifferent now, or do you have to
almost play the game where youneed people that really
understand the portal?
They've got experiencerecruiting out of the portal.
They've got experience retentionin their rosters.
They've learned how to winalready with maybe a little bit
(39:42):
instead of a lot.
Is there a thought process intohow you're hiring that's maybe a
little different than it wasfive, 10 years ago?
I will say that we have beenfortunate in that sorry, in the
airport, right?
They're making an announcementnow.
We haven't had a huge turnoverin head coaches and any of our
head coaches.
So we, they come and they stay.
For us, it's really moreimportant about finding someone
(40:04):
that wants to be at theUniversity of Finlay.
So we are division two, we'rehigh level division two, but we
are also, operating on a veryconservative budget.
And so finding somebody thatwants to be here is our top
priority.
I think you can teach people howto learn X's and O's better and
(40:24):
to do some of those things, butit's hard to teach somebody to
be a good human and to reallybuy into what's important to us
on campus.
So that for us, has been our toppriority.
Priority.
That hasn't changed.
But once they're here, how canwe help educate them on NIL, on
the transfer portal and some ofthose things.
But we're definitely not lookingfor that as a key component for
(40:47):
the hiring process.
Okay.
Dr.
Fel, do you have any extrapoints on top of that?
I'm very proud of our athletics.
I really am.
Our athletes retain slightly ata slightly higher percentage
than our non-athletes.
They graduate with a high GPA onaverage and they get jobs.
Those are the key factors for methat indicate that we do not
(41:09):
have our priorities out ofwhack, and we've got some great
teams.
This is an amazing athletic yearfor us.
I don't know why you haven'talready.
Heard that we beat ly last weekand we haven't beat them in 19
years, and we're pretty excited.
In fact, our football team has a10 zero win record and actually
and all of those things, we havea number of sports that are
(41:32):
doing particularly well rightnow, but we are in, we moved
from a conference several yearsago that c was a combination of,
public and private institutions,some of those public
institutions were quite largeand we moved to an all private
institution within a particularradius.
(41:53):
And that has worked beautifullyfor us because the presidents of
all of our institutions in GMAC,the Great Midwest Conference,
athletic Conference arecommitted to reducing the time
away from classes.
And so forth.
And so we are similar in ourapproach.
(42:14):
And.
That helps.
The fact that we're in aconference that is highly
competitive at the D two leveland places strong emphasis on
class time and academic successhelps us tremendously.
And we're playing good teams.
So our students are getting agood athletic experience, but
(42:36):
they go to class.
Our coaches make sure they go toclass.
Good.
And I think that's the hardestpart about Division one right
now is.
We've got conferences now thatare coast to coast.
And we've just totally lost theidea that these kids need to be
on campus.
They, not only for the educationand being in the classrooms, but
they need that community moreoften.
(42:58):
They need to build thoserelationships.
So you can't do it when you'reon an airplane.
So I love that's been your focusand I love the transition to
your new conference.
And yes, your football team isgoing great and will wish coach
great luck against Tiffin thisweekend.
Yeah, thank you.
Yeah, good research.
Thank you both for this.
If you're open to it, I'd liketo come back and do one more
(43:19):
segment where we talk a littlebit about recruiting and Sure.
We dipped our toe into it here,this last part.
But thank you so much for yourtime and I learned a lot and had
a lot of fun, and I hope it wasgood for you too.
Thank you.
Thank you.
My pleasure.
What a great conversation withDr.
Kathy Fell and Brandy lta.
They reminded us that greatleadership isn't loud or
(43:40):
complicated.
It's intentional and it can befun.
It's where we create a campuswhere people feel seen and they
feel supported and held to astandard that helps them grow.
Their partnership at theUniversity of Finlay is a
powerful example of what canhappen when academics and
athletics and student life workin true alignment.
If today's episode resonatedwith you, please visit coach
(44:02):
matt rogers.com for moreleadership tools, weekly blogs,
and the full library ofsignificant coaching and
significant recruitingresources.
And don't forget, part two ofthis conversation is gonna come
out on Monday where we'll haveour significant recruiting
podcast.
We shift the focus to whatrecruits and families should
really be looking for on theircollege search and why they're
(44:24):
fit at that school is greaterthan just about everything else.
Until next time, stay focused onwhat you can control.
Stay humble and keep chasingsignificance.
Okay.
Welcome back to the SignificantCoaching Podcast.
I'm your host, Matt Rogers.
Today we're joined by twoleaders who embody what it means
to build a student-centeredcampus and a university athletic
experience with clarity andcompassion and purpose.
Dr.
Catherine fell President andBrandy Loreta, vice President of
Student Affairs and Athletics atthe University of Fin.
(00:31):
We're kind enough to join me fora fun and enlightening
conversation on why the collegeexperience is so valuable and
still necessary in a time wherethe purpose and value of a
college education seems toconstantly be in question.
In this conversation, they sharehow they shape a campus where
people feel known, supported,and challenged to grow.
(00:52):
You'll hear their approach tobuilding trust, aligning teams,
and creating an environmentwhere academics and athletics
elevate one another instead ofcompeting for space.
This is a powerful look intowhat leadership should look like
at the collegiate level.
And as always, you can learnmore.
Read this week's blog.
And explore the significantrecruiting
(01:12):
resources@coachmattrogers.com.
Let's jump in.
Here's my conversation with Dr.
Catherine Fell and Brandy Lata.
Hello, you two.
Welcome to the SignificantCoaching Podcast.
It is an honor to have you onthe show, Dr.
Fell and Brandy, who's almost adoctor, we're on our way, which
on our way she's one of ourstudents.
(01:35):
Come to think of it.
That's fantastic.
I'm gonna call you at some pointand pick your brain.
I need you to motivate me to gofinish mine.
So do it such, I'm such a badclassroom student, so I need as
much motivation as I can get.
I wanna jump into this, and Iknow this is always a fun
question.
I wanna take you back to 16,17-year-old versions of you, or
(01:59):
even your 22-year-old version ofyou.
Could either of you imaginebeing a president or a vice
president of a university atthat point?
Were you even thinking about it?
Brandy, you can begin.
I have lots of things I'd liketo say about that.
I will say it had never evencrossed my mind.
(02:19):
I didn't know what a vicepresident or a president did.
Not saying that I actually havea clue right now.
But, I had no idea.
I thought I was gonna be ateacher teach phys ed.
That was my undergraduatedegree.
That's what I always wanted todo.
And I lasted one year in thatrole before I went back and
started working at a highereducation institution.
So at 16, 17, or even 22 had noidea or thought that this is
(02:46):
where the road would lead me.
That's great.
I lasted three years, just soyou know, in the classroom, and
I was, and then I was off touniversity.
Yep.
Dr.
Fell, how about you?
So I grew up in a very smalltown.
I was the first member of myfamily to attend college.
I was excited.
I knew from a very young agethat I would go to college and I
(03:11):
was going to major in English,which I did.
I be my plan was to become ahigh school English teacher, but
I kept going soon after Ifinished college onto a master's
degree and taught at the collegelevel.
But my first few days on acollege campus are memorable.
I, first of all, my roommatedidn't.
(03:32):
Appear I hadn't met her and shedidn't arrive until the next
day.
And I spent most of the firstnight very cold because I
couldn't figure out how to workthe thermostat.
So that was not a very promisingstart.
Fortunately I had abilitieselsewhere to get me through, but
it turned out to be a greatexperience for me.
(03:53):
And I remember those early daysand those years.
Finally, I'm still very closefriends with people I met at the
university that at SouthernState College it's now a
university, but it was SouthernState College in Magnolia,
Arkansas.
What is it now?
It's now Southern StateUniversity.
(04:15):
Southern State?
Interesting.
Okay.
Do they have an athleticprogram?
Oh, yes, they do.
They're oh, mule writers.
It's the home of the Mulewriters.
I'm shocked you've not heard ofthem, Matt.
I am too.
Because I'm I do a lot of workwith the University of Ozark, so
I, oh yes.
So I'm beautiful place.
I'm beating myself up that Ihaven't heard of it.
(04:37):
That's great.
Just so you know, I, that was myplan too.
I grew up in a town of 2000people.
And I was gonna be a high schoolEnglish teacher.
I have a degree in English.
Okay.
Then we have a lot in common.
So we have a lot in common.
And I was gonna, like you,Brandy, I was gonna be a teacher
and a coach, and that was gonnabe my career.
And then at 26 somebody offeredme a head college basketball
job.
(04:57):
And then I was an AD a yearlater and then the, everything
changed.
So that's hard work.
All of those things are hardwork.
They are hard work.
Here's my big question totransition from that, because I
work with a lot of studentathletes.
I work with teenagers andfamilies every day, and I want
them to understand that.
(05:19):
I think it's absolutely bonkersto think about your major at 16
or 17 because most people don'tend up.
Where they thought they weregonna be.
So I try and get them to thinkabout, what do you think?
Will you enjoy?
What do you think?
If you had to do something for10 years straight, what do you
think you'd enjoy doing?
And don't put a, don't put aprofession behind it, but put
(05:41):
the idea, is it working withkids?
Is it working with animals?
Is it working in a classroom?
What is it that makes you happy?
So where do you start?
With that 18-year-old that getsto your campus that maybe hasn't
thought that way, maybe has saidI'm gonna be a doctor, but has
no idea how hard that first yearof biology or chemistry's gonna
(06:02):
be.
Where do we start with thoseyoung people when they get to
you?
I think we begin, I think we'regood at the University of
Findlay at beginning withhonesty, and we don't start
simply by saying, what do youplan to major in?
But we fought.
We try to approach our studentsas human beings, as multifaceted
(06:25):
human beings who may have dreamsand clear plans.
At least they think they do, andthose may change, but we.
Want to educate the wholeperson.
And I think we made that clearfrom the very beginning.
We try not to divide them intoacademic groups so severely that
(06:48):
they don't dare move across thelines.
Yeah.
And I think Brandy would agreewith that.
Yes, absolutely.
And I would say, from arecruiting perspective, when
student athletes are coming in,we really talk about picking the
university, not the sport.
Because anything could happen inthe sport.
And so you're not picking aplace to go based on the coach
(07:09):
or on the sport in particular.
That should be the icing on thecake that you really have to
find a place that's home, aplace that you can have life
outside of sport, and so reallyfocusing more on their academic
and educational experience thanthe sport.
That has helped us withretention and with engaging
students across campus outsideof athletics.
(07:29):
So I think it goes into thatwhole developing them as full
people.
Not just in a particular majoror a particular sport.
We all have read the researchthat those first five weeks of a
college student's life arereally key to the retention, to
their health, to keeping them oncampus.
What is that?
(07:50):
What does not only what doesthat look like at Finley, but
what's the purpose behind thosefirst five or six weeks for you
guys?
What are you trying toaccomplish in your orientation
period?
Just to get them to understandthey're not alone.
This is gonna be hard and if youask for help, the help's gonna
be there.
Where?
Where does that begin for you?
(08:13):
I think we, again, are honestwith them about the fact that we
understand the excitement andthe stress of those first weeks.
We do know that if studentsdon't make acquaintances,
friendly acquaintances, andmaybe even real friends, and
those first two months, they'reunlikely to connect.
(08:36):
And that is top of mind for usin those early days.
I remember a really brilliantnew student who came from
several states away with hisfather and through after our art
ceremony, which is a beautifulceremony when we welcome our new
students into the arts.
And our tradition is that youdon't dare walk back under the
(08:56):
arts until graduation, or youmight not graduate.
But the art ceremony is a timealso for the parents to
separate.
They're supposed to go away, andwe have other events immediately
following the art ceremony forstudents.
But this particular student onthat afternoon.
(09:18):
Was very upset and his fathercame in to our building.
The arch is right in front ofour building near the street,
and he came in looking for somehelp because his son was just
suddenly very upset and unhappy.
Brandy, you may remember that Ithink you were standing in the
hall with me when that happened.
And so I said if he's willing tocome in, let's sit down and talk
(09:40):
to him.
And that was.
Helpful to the student.
I think it was very helpful.
He's was, he's an, he's abrilliant student.
He's done very well at theuniversity, but he was not
interested in all the hoopla,all of the games, all of the
forced friendliness, all of theforced meeting and answering
(10:01):
silly questions.
From his point of view, hedidn't say that.
He was very polite.
Very quiet and very polite, andI said, I'm president and I'm
telling you don't have to do it.
Just don't worry about it.
Are you worried about yourclasses?
Are you worried about studying?
Are you anxious about that?
He said, no, and the student isbrilliant.
He came with a great.
(10:22):
Academic pedigree.
I said, then don't go nobody.
It's not required.
And if anybody asks you aboutit, tell him you have an
agreement with the president.
And he did not attend all of theevents.
And when I saw him on Sundayevening, this was on a Friday,
when I saw him on Sunday eveningat a campus picnic, he was fine.
(10:45):
And I think he has remainedfine.
But Brandi, you are up close andpersonal with more students than
I am.
Talk about this.
Yeah, and I would say thatexperience probably helped us
shape how we do orientationtoday.
Because everything in the past,historically, we have done large
events, large groups, fun loudthings to get them excited and
(11:08):
engaged.
And I think that experiencehelped us realize that's not for
everyone.
And so we really adaptedorientation that yes, we
absolutely have loud, large, funevents, so we hope all of the
incoming students will attend.
But we also have more quietevents that they can go in small
groups to make some of thoseconnections.
But it's not overwhelmingbecause we've realized that
(11:30):
large group atmosphere isn't foreveryone.
And that's not how they're gonnamake connections.
They're gonna feel overwhelmed,they're gonna have some anxiety,
and that we really need tostructure orientation in a way
that allows them to find theirown space.
And so we have.
Adjusted and adapted.
And I think that really it'smaking those connections.
We pair our incoming class withan orientation leader, a group
(11:52):
of about 20 students, so theyhave an upperclassmen to help
them, not just orientation, butthroughout the whole first year.
And that's been very helpful forour students as they engage and
adapt to their new experiencehere on campus.
I love that.
That's such a big part of it, ishaving that older person there
that's gone through everythingthey've, they're about to go
(12:12):
through and say, Hey it's okay.
And it's okay to be not okay.
It's, you're not alone.
Kathy it's funny I don't know ifyou two have seen this movie
about what you just said, themovie Miracle, about the 1980
hockey team that won the Olympicyes.
A long time ago.
Yes.
But there's a great line in it,and I always remember this.
Where the star goalie doesn'tfill out this big 200 page
(12:37):
personality test that the coachwants all the boys to fill out.
And so the coach shows up at hisdoor and says, why didn't you
fill this out?
And the kid said, I didn't thinkit was necessary.
I think it's foolish.
It's going back to this youngman that wouldn't wouldn't
partake in the fun and gamesthat you were asking them to do.
And the coach, he looked at himand go.
Then be the guy that chose notto take this test.
(13:00):
That's the person I wanna see.
That's great.
Yes.
I just, there's just somethingabout that, at 17, 18, 19, we
have so much of what we call afalse courage almost.
And to have somebody remind usthat, okay, if you're gonna have
that courage, be that personthough.
Be that person that challengesus here, challenges your
classmates, challenges yourprofessors.
(13:22):
Be the person you're capable of.
Don't just be that person that'sbrave for one minute, right?
So I, I love that mindset andthat's what I thought about that
story.
I wasn't gonna go here, but Ithink it's important to talk
about what you two have to dealwith.
Let's talk about faculty buy-in.
(13:43):
Okay.
That's a good point.
They love it when, with ourfaculty, our fa I will say this
I've been in higher educationnow for 40 years.
I was at another institution inLouisiana for 24 years and I'm
in my 16th year here.
And I will say that our facultyhere are by and large.
(14:05):
The most open and honest andcooperative of groups I have
known, not only on campuseswhere I've worked, but through
other presidents and othercampuses, but they're humans and
the, and they will buy in andwork hard and try, but in times
of difficulty then they retreata bit.
(14:30):
And they want to find easyanswers or easy places for
blame, but they can be pulledback in to reason if you listen
to them and talk to them.
And because they're in, they're,they feel vulnerable.
And I think the way to addressthat is straight on and to admit
(14:51):
your own vulnerability, but thatyou're staying the course and
you will lead through it.
And we need them to lead throughit.
Now we have a few notableexceptions who keep everything
interesting as any group ofhumans would have.
Of course, I'm not trying topretend that we have created
heaven here.
It's not heaven, but there areheavenly moments.
(15:13):
Yes.
And my point of the question waswe don't hire professors
necessarily.
To help us with the whole persongrowth.
We want that.
But we hire people'cause they'refantastic economics professors,
they're fantastic historyprofessors or biology professors
(15:33):
and their mindset is, I'm gonnabe the best at what I do and I'm
gonna teach these kids all thethings that I've learned over
the years.
How do we get the faculty toperson where.
Interview skills are important.
Communication skills areimportant.
Learning how to study the rightway, learning how to be an adult
(15:55):
the right way because they'rethe ones that have the hands
into these kids every day.
How do we get the faculty to buyinto that responsibility when
maybe that wasn't their focus tostart with when they took the
job?
It's a good question, Brandi,I'll let you offer your opinion
there.
(16:15):
I think we manage it with manyof our professors.
Okay.
Yeah.
And I would say that it's alittle bit of our culture.
So we engage faculty in therecruiting process.
So students are meeting withfaculty when they're coming to
campus for their visit.
They're involved in ourorientation process, so they
will lead service projects,which is a huge part of our
campus culture, is that service.
(16:37):
And so all of our freshmen doservice projects that are led by
faculty and staff.
And so I think some of thoseimportant touch points early
help our faculty with thatbuy-in to see the students as
people outside of the classroombefore the classroom.
Practices start.
I think that helps us with a legup.
And then continuing involvingand engaging them as Dr.
(16:59):
Fell mentioned, right?
It's not utopia there, there'salways an oddity, but right in
large, we've got great facultywho are willing to go above and
beyond to make a call and say,Hey, I'm worried about this
student.
I don't have the answer, but canyou help?
And I think that is part of ourculture on campus, which makes
it a really great collaborativeexperience inside of the
(17:20):
classroom and out.
I love that I'd add this exampleor piece of evidence, Matt, at
the end of each academic year asstudents are graduating, they're
given the opportunity to writethank you notes to faculty or
administrative staff, and thatcan be at every level, thank you
notes to people who've made adifference.
(17:43):
And there are hundreds andhundreds of them.
And many of them to faculty andalso to other people on campus
who help them.
So I feel that is.
Very good evidence that ourstudents know that most, almost
everyone on this campus caresabout them as individuals and
(18:04):
they're not just using them asan opportunity to show their own
knowledge, but they are there toteach them and to enhance the
field of education with otherpeople who know things too.
Yeah.
I went to co college in CedarRapids, Iowa School, very
(18:26):
similar to Finley, and mygreatest memories were the
professor that would take meacross the street and have a
pizza with me, or inviteExactly.
Invite me to their home and havea dinner, or Sure.
Say, Hey Matt, let's go for awalk.
Which college did you say youwent to?
Matt Cole College, COE in CedarRapids, Iowa.
I yeah.
I'm good friends with the personwho just retired from Wartburg.
(18:49):
Yeah.
As president.
Yeah.
Another great school.
I know the area.
It's a beautiful place.
It is.
I loved it there.
And I loved that I went to asmall private there's so much
that I gained because of it.
I'm gonna just stay on facultyjust for a little bit, because I
just talked to a president acouple weeks ago and we had a
long conversation.
He really wants to notnecessarily reinvent.
(19:10):
How we go about teaching ourstudents, but he's really
cautious about making sure we'redoing the things to get those 18
year olds.
By the time they're 22 ready togo out into the world.
And this is pretty crazy and I'msure you've heard this, I'm sure
you've had this conversation,Kathy, at some levels, but he's
(19:33):
thinking about a 1 3, 1 semesterwhere that first semester, the
first month, we're doing lifeskills before we go, even go
into the classroom.
We're learning how to takenotes, we're turning how,
learning how to prepare.
We're, and then that continuesthrough senior year where.
That last month, maybe beforegraduation, you're taking
(19:53):
classes on applying for a loanor filling out your resume or
doing interview skills.
So I really dynamic stuff and hefinished the conversation with,
it's never gonna happen'cause Ican't get my faculty there.
Okay.
But that was his, that's histhought process.
When you think about that birthto death model.
(20:16):
Of Finley what you want frombeginning to end, and that the,
when I say birth to death, thatmight be when they're 80 years
old and they're still coming tofootball games, they're still,
giving, writing a check everyyear.
What does that look like for youin those first four years?
What and think out of the boxhere, gimme some of those things
you've thought about.
What would you, if in a perfectworld, if you get everybody on
(20:37):
board, what would you dodifferently now?
To help prepare for the world tobe an adult that maybe you're
not doing right now as much asyou'd like.
I, I think that I think we havemade strides probably like the
president you're referring to,but we're not completely there.
(20:58):
I think students need.
A combination of anadministrator at some level, a
staff member at some level, whocares for them.
Usually that person would be instudent affairs, a faculty
member or two, and upperclassmenwho can I'd like to see us do
(21:19):
this, have groups of people towhom they can go.
Yeah, who can help them.
You don't necessarily need aprofessor to teach you how to
keep up with the syllabus ororganize your time or do all
those things.
There are lots of people oncampus who do not have degrees
in education who could helpstudents manage their lives.
(21:44):
And feel that they have someoneto turn to.
We could share thatresponsibility.
And in that sense, bringeveryone who works here into the
fold and into the calling ofteaching, including
housekeepers.
Our housekeepers in theresidence halls make a big
impact on our students.
Absolutely.
And those students make animpact on them.
(22:06):
So I think.
Turning the, in everything we dointo a teaching opportunity
would be helpful and exciting.
Not only helpful for thestudents, but exciting for them
and for those who areparticipating, who are actually
paid to be here and not paying.
I think there's a book in there,Kathy, I'm gonna help you write
(22:28):
it at some point.
Okay.
I love, alright, let's work onthat.
Okay.
Yeah, because I think that'swhat I don't think if my parents
didn't go to college and I don'tthink my parents understood what
I was going to get out ofcollege because the people that.
I loved were the people at thecafeteria that served me every
day that I became good friendswith, and I, learned about their
children and got to meet theirchildren and the physical plant
(22:50):
people and the security people.
Those are the people that Iloved.
I was a blue collar kid and Ijust appreciated Yes.
How hard they were working forme, right?
So I love that global educationthat you're talking about.
Where do we go?
For athletics, because athleticsis doing some of this stuff
(23:11):
automatically, right?
Brandy, where you're coming inand you immediately have a
family, right?
You immediately have a team.
You immediately have that oneperson who's watching your
academics, making sure you'rehealthy, is seeing you every day
watching your nonverbals.
How do we take that athleticmodel?
And help all the kids, all thenon-athletes with that same
(23:32):
thing.
Is that possible when you can'tafford to hire 50 mental health
professionals?
You don't have the budget forthat.
So how can we use athletics as amodel with that?
Yeah I would say, we're doing agreat job in athletics trying to
spread that out.
We have a good peer mentorprogram on campus that is run
(23:52):
through our briefer center forglobal engagement, and so that
allows us to connectnon-athletic, right?
Our student athletes call themnas.
Non-athletic, regular people whodon't have that connection, who
need somebody to go to, whodon't have the built-in friends
that we like to say athleticsprovides.
So peer mentors also, we have agreat system on campus called
(24:13):
Starfish, which the connectionof the name and what it does is,
I can't figure out thatconnection, but it allows us to
connect.
Anybody that touches a studenttogether.
So any professor that teachesthem in class, their advisor,
the health center counseling ouroiler success Center for all all
over success and coaches.
(24:34):
With a student.
So if a coach is seeing, hey,I'm a little worried about this,
or Hey, I'm noticing that thisstudent, something's happening
in their life.
Everybody that touches thatstudent then knows in a, an
appropriate confidential level.
So we're not sharing anythingthat shouldn't be shared, but it
really allows us.
To connect all of the dots withthose student athletes.
And so for non-student athletes,it's connecting everyone else,
(24:57):
right?
So their advisor knows, Hey, Isee you just got an A in
chemistry because that wasposted and you got a kudo, and
that's awesome.
That's fantastic.
And so there's somebody elsethat is connecting and making it
a big deal.
When they do something great andif things start to slip a
little, somebody's following upand saying Hey.
What do we need to do to get youback on track?
(25:17):
And so that system helps connectthe people.
The system doesn't do the work,but it allows us to connect and
communicate in a way thatstudent athletes, non-student
athletes, right?
So if somebody's in the banddirector gets it and says, Hey,
I, what's going on here withpsychology?
Because something's off, or yourprofessor's worried about you.
So there's always a kind of asecond layer of somebody.
(25:39):
Trying to have a touch point andconnect, which I think has been
really helpful on our campus.
For a dad who's sending adaughter to college in a year
and a half.
That web that you're talkingabout, that, that's so
meaningful to me.
Now, I'm, let's talk aboutparents a little bit.
I know I'm hurting you too.
I'm talking about faculty andparents, but I'm gonna I think
it's important that I let youtwo pontificate a little bit
(26:02):
today because you're in theheart of this.
And Kathy, I just talked to apresident who you know very
well.
He told me, he goes,'cause I wasasking him similar questions and
he goes, Matt, I think we mightbe catering too much to these
kids.
I think there's maybe too muchnurturing and not enough nature
(26:23):
to get, to build a littletoughness in them and to build a
little, this is what life isgonna be like.
How do we talk to parents aboutthose things so they understand?
Yeah, that's a good question.
This has to be a learningprocess.
We can't hold your hand 24 hoursa day.
You can't drop your child off.
It's not daycare.
There's gotta be that other sideto that.
(26:45):
What does that sound like toparents like me?
We have a good orientation forparents when they come, and then
even in the early months of thesummer when they come for
registration not just the firstday or so when they're moving
their children in we cover allthe things that you would expect
(27:07):
and we give some examples.
And I always point out to them,having brought up five sons and
one daughter, I have lots ofexamples of what, of the
panicked calls that I get, and Itry to tell them from my point
of view as a student andcertainly as a mother when they
should.
(27:28):
Worry and get involved inprobably when they should hold
off.
And they love that lesson beforethey drop their children off.
They're all in.
They go, oh, that's brilliant.
But when the child's not withthem, they, for some of them,
forget, we had a mother who,everybody, every campus has
(27:49):
stories, but we've had motherswho will email.
My, me and several others, ifher daughter or son is in the
wrong building, looking for aclassroom, we've had this
happen.
I don't know that you want toput that out publicly because I
don't want to be, I don't wantthis mother to hear me say this,
(28:12):
and I don't even, I'm not even.
I've had that story a hundredtimes.
Okay.
Could be hundred different of,you could say every campus has
this story.
Yes, but I think one dear soul,one of the faculty members who
knows that the student, and Idon't know that the student was
worried at all, but obviouslyher mother contacted her, or she
contacted her mother to say shewas looking for a classroom.
(28:33):
And I doubt the student knew shewas.
She was contacting thepresident's office and several
other people.
But we did have one facultymember who said, I'll just be
the point person.
And I, and honestly, I thinkthat problem eventually worked
itself out.
Sure.
And I'm happy for that.
But it is hard and we forgethaving, we, we are so seasoned
(28:57):
and we have done this so manytimes to welcome students and
sent our own children away thatit's easy to forget how
difficult it can be.
Yes.
And I think we need to besympathetic, but not not
enabling.
Are you the one that must And Iaspire.
(29:18):
I aspire to that.
That's all I can say.
I do too.
Accomplished.
I'm not sure, but I aspire toit.
Brandi, you get more calls thanI do.
The balance is really important.
My first question is usually,does your son or daughter know
your calling?
I love that.
And if the answer is no, then wesay, okay, let's pause.
(29:40):
Happy to do a conference callwith your son or daughter.
Let's add them to theconversation.
A lot of times that stops thecall, right?
Because their first thing theysay is.
Don't tell them I'm calling.
So if we can add the student inor add them on an email, a lot
of times it's very clear thatthey did get a panicked phone
call with half the informationnot the full story.
(30:01):
And so if they can get the fullstory, a lot of times their
students are just calling.
Not that they need them to fixit, they just need them to
listen.
And reminding them thatlistening is doing something.
It doesn't mean you have to pickup the phone or send off an
email.
To try to fix their problem.
But just listen, help'em walkthrough that.
There's resources.
But yeah, that's usually myfirst question is do they know?
(30:24):
And if the answer's no, then wepause the conversation until we
can bring the student in.
And a lot of time that problemis solved very quickly.
For all the parents listeningwithout you knowing it, Brandy
just gave you really goodadvice, let you know.
I was just on a new campus thatI hadn't been on in a long time,
and I had to go to a, an officethat was deep into campus and
(30:45):
the parking lot was far away,and it was really big campus.
I talked to four people that gotme to that building just because
I said, I'm lost.
Can you help me get to buildingDEC?
So I think the more we can teachour 16 and 17 year olds to just
ask for help, use yoursurroundings a lot.
(31:07):
A lot can be fixed reallyquickly and it gets them talking
and it gets them beingopen-minded.
It gets them coming outta theirbox a little bit, but it's a
challenge.
What's your favorite part ofeach of your jobs?
Brandy?
I have many, I, as long as youdon't ask what the least
favorite parts are, we can talkall day.
(31:28):
No, but I think my favorite partis watching them come in.
Our students come in as young,kind of wide-eyed, 17 or 18 year
olds, and leaving as not theirbest self, but as a different
version of themselves, right?
They're gonna continue to growand develop as people, but
really watching them throughthat journey and watching how.
(31:48):
They're not just being impactedby campus and the people they're
engaging with, but how they'rereally impacting all of us.
I know for me, I've got a, Ihave a 12 and a 14-year-old and.
The amount of impact they havehad from student spending
Thanksgiving or Easter with usfrom different countries and
what they're learning that'ssomething that I can't replicate
(32:09):
anywhere else and it's soimpactful for us.
And then to have those students,that's their best memory, right?
They get to have an AmericanEaster and they didn't even know
what Easter was.
My 12-year-old is explaining tothem what Easter is.
So those are the moments and thememories and really when you can
connect that, that's my favoritepart.
12 years.
12 year olds are great atexplaining things, aren't they?
(32:30):
They love Oh yes.
Mine, mine talks pretty muchnonstop.
So she's got, I have one in myhouse too.
Explanation Itest that Dr.
Fell.
What's the, some of the greatthings about being a president
of a university?
It really is a privilege.
It's a, it's tremendousresponsibility and a privilege.
I got to meet so many studentsand families.
(32:55):
They appreciate my time withthem and they tell me, they
answer my questions and they'rerespectful and polite and.
I can usually get them pastsimply being respectful and
polite into real conversations.
(33:16):
And my best.
Part of this job is to get toknow students and to know them
well, to remember them.
I had a student we, I have apresident's student council, and
we meet not too often to take uptoo much of their time, but they
love it and I love it.
And I'll ask them questionsabout campus and they will give
(33:39):
me honest answers and they'llbring ideas.
To me.
And one of them a few weeks ago,we, after a meeting, he said,
Dr.
Fell and he's graduating.
He's 21 maybe 22.
I, that's a relevant point herebecause he said, on my bucket
list is to sit down and have aglass of wine with you.
(34:02):
And I said, how old are you?
And he said.
21, I think he said.
I said, then let's have a glassof wine.
I have wine.
He said I actually brought abottle with me.
This is after a council meeting,had it in his car, and there
were a couple of his friendsstill there.
I said, are you all 21 as wellor older?
And they said, yes.
I said, okay.
(34:22):
Then we will each have a glassof wine.
So we sat around in AdirondackTerra under the tent in my
backyard.
And had a glass of wine and awonderful conversation.
And I visit with this studentoften about a number of very
important campus matters, and Ibenefit from it.
(34:42):
I, he enjoys it.
And he's forthcoming with hisrespect and his care and his
honesty about what's great aboutthe university and a few things
that need to be, improved and Ifind that very valuable.
And that's just an example ofwhat I find great about being a
(35:03):
president.
I can gain access and I can giveaccess, and I want people to
learn from that, to enjoy thatas much as I do.
I want our students and ourfaculty and staff.
To know that, and I believe thatmost of them do.
I can't get to all the thousandsof students, but I think the
(35:23):
reputation of the university ismirrored.
I hope it in its best parts, bythe way, that I open this office
to people and I'm available tothem.
So that's what I love aboutbeing a president.
Yeah.
Not so much the budget meetings,not so much the awakenings at
(35:45):
four in the morning.
Yeah.
But I do love the job.
All of the good parts make thehard parts worth it.
You both have given me.
So much inspiration to get backinto higher ed.
'cause those are the things Ilove and I miss.
It's amazing how these youngpeople keep us young even when
(36:06):
we don't get the sleep we wantand we're up all night thinking
about, of course, yes.
Or their issues and how to helpthem with them and how to deal
with those big problems.
I'd be remiss because athleticsis such a big part of my world.
If I didn't ask you both aboutthe future of the NCAA and
specifically your level NCAAdivision two.
(36:28):
Brandi, you start, I have a lotto say about it.
Yeah.
But Brandi is the expert.
Yeah.
I would say the uncertainty andthe continuing, evolving
landscape is keeping us on ourtoes.
We're really having to rethinkhow we do things with the
transfer portal.
That's probably the biggestimpact for us.
Not as much of the NIL.
(36:49):
We're seeing a little bit of NILbut not to the extent that large
division one schools are seeing,but really making sure that
we're keeping students engaged.
And we don't have the luxury asmuch anymore to bring in
students and develop and growthem as people.
That's always been our model.
Potential develop, and then theyhave success.
(37:10):
And so we're still doing that,but we've gotta add in, right?
There's transfers and if they'renot getting the playing time
they want, right?
Are they leaving?
We've been fortunate that wehaven't had a lot of student
athletes enter the transferspace, but that continues to
evolve.
In division two, we're lookingat.
Do we allow all students to, toplay for five years?
We'll vote on that in January.
And what does that look like?
(37:31):
What does that model change asWe have so many students coming
in with, college credit Plus,and so they can finish a degree
in three years.
Now we're gonna give them fiveyears.
What does that look like?
And the thought of that, thesame old is gonna make us be
successful.
I think that anybody inathletics would say, if you're
not thinking ahead, you're beingpassed up.
And so you've gotta be able tobe adaptive and think about
(37:53):
things differently, which issometimes a little bit hard for
some of our coaches that havelong tenures, right?
They're changing and having tochange not only the way they
recruit, but the way they coach.
So it's evolving and changing.
And I don't know if we're headedin the right direction to be
honest with you.
I'm not convinced of that yet,but I guess only the future will
tell.
Do you think we're go ever gonnaget to a point where we have
(38:14):
structure to the portal and theNIL that allows us to really
teach kids about the loyalty andthe commitment and.
And make that education theirpriority.
Are we gonna get back to that orare we gonna head stay down This
wild west journey we're on.
(38:36):
I'm a little bit worried that,the genie's out of the bottle
and I don't know how we bring itback to a way where those things
are important.
I think that the value ofeducation has been lost in many
people's eyes when we thinkabout college athletics.
Yeah.
And here at, the University ofFinlay, that's.
That's the forefront and that'swhat they're doing.
And we've been fortunate to beable to have great student
athletes who come here becausethey know they can do high
(38:59):
academics, high athletics.
And so if the academic partisn't important anymore, what
does that mean?
So I'm hopeful that we can finda path back.
I'm just not sure what that is.
So open to any suggestions youmay have?
I've got lots.
But we'll save that for anotherconversation.
I'm interested in how you both.
Maybe are changing your hiringpractices with coaches and
(39:20):
athletic directors.
Are you looking for somethingdifferent now, or do you have to
almost play the game where youneed people that really
understand the portal?
They've got experiencerecruiting out of the portal.
They've got experience retentionin their rosters.
They've learned how to winalready with maybe a little bit
(39:42):
instead of a lot.
Is there a thought process intohow you're hiring that's maybe a
little different than it wasfive, 10 years ago?
I will say that we have beenfortunate in that sorry, in the
airport, right?
They're making an announcementnow.
We haven't had a huge turnoverin head coaches and any of our
head coaches.
So we, they come and they stay.
For us, it's really moreimportant about finding someone
(40:04):
that wants to be at theUniversity of Finlay.
So we are division two, we'rehigh level division two, but we
are also, operating on a veryconservative budget.
And so finding somebody thatwants to be here is our top
priority.
I think you can teach people howto learn X's and O's better and
(40:24):
to do some of those things, butit's hard to teach somebody to
be a good human and to reallybuy into what's important to us
on campus.
So that for us, has been our toppriority.
Priority.
That hasn't changed.
But once they're here, how canwe help educate them on NIL, on
the transfer portal and some ofthose things.
But we're definitely not lookingfor that as a key component for
(40:47):
the hiring process.
Okay.
Dr.
Fel, do you have any extrapoints on top of that?
I'm very proud of our athletics.
I really am.
Our athletes retain slightly ata slightly higher percentage
than our non-athletes.
They graduate with a high GPA onaverage and they get jobs.
Those are the key factors for methat indicate that we do not
(41:09):
have our priorities out ofwhack, and we've got some great
teams.
This is an amazing athletic yearfor us.
I don't know why you haven'talready.
Heard that we beat ly last weekand we haven't beat them in 19
years, and we're pretty excited.
In fact, our football team has a10 zero win record and actually
and all of those things, we havea number of sports that are
(41:32):
doing particularly well rightnow, but we are in, we moved
from a conference several yearsago that c was a combination of,
public and private institutions,some of those public
institutions were quite largeand we moved to an all private
institution within a particularradius.
(41:53):
And that has worked beautifullyfor us because the presidents of
all of our institutions in GMAC,the Great Midwest Conference,
athletic Conference arecommitted to reducing the time
away from classes.
And so forth.
And so we are similar in ourapproach.
(42:14):
And.
That helps.
The fact that we're in aconference that is highly
competitive at the D two leveland places strong emphasis on
class time and academic successhelps us tremendously.
And we're playing good teams.
So our students are getting agood athletic experience, but
(42:36):
they go to class.
Our coaches make sure they go toclass.
Good.
And I think that's the hardestpart about Division one right
now is.
We've got conferences now thatare coast to coast.
And we've just totally lost theidea that these kids need to be
on campus.
They, not only for the educationand being in the classrooms, but
they need that community moreoften.
(42:58):
They need to build thoserelationships.
So you can't do it when you'reon an airplane.
So I love that's been your focusand I love the transition to
your new conference.
And yes, your football team isgoing great and will wish coach
great luck against Tiffin thisweekend.
Yeah, thank you.
Yeah, good research.
Thank you both for this.
If you're open to it, I'd liketo come back and do one more
(43:19):
segment where we talk a littlebit about recruiting and Sure.
We dipped our toe into it here,this last part.
But thank you so much for yourtime and I learned a lot and had
a lot of fun, and I hope it wasgood for you too.
Thank you.
Thank you.
My pleasure.
What a great conversation withDr.
Kathy Fell and Brandy lta.
They reminded us that greatleadership isn't loud or
(43:40):
complicated.
It's intentional and it can befun.
It's where we create a campuswhere people feel seen and they
feel supported and held to astandard that helps them grow.
Their partnership at theUniversity of Finlay is a
powerful example of what canhappen when academics and
athletics and student life workin true alignment.
If today's episode resonatedwith you, please visit coach
(44:02):
matt rogers.com for moreleadership tools, weekly blogs,
and the full library ofsignificant coaching and
significant recruitingresources.
And don't forget, part two ofthis conversation is gonna come
out on Monday where we'll haveour significant recruiting
podcast.
We shift the focus to whatrecruits and families should
really be looking for on theircollege search and why they're
(44:24):
fit at that school is greaterthan just about everything else.
Until next time, stay focused onwhat you can control.
Stay humble and keep chasingsignificance.
Okay.
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