December 15, 2025 ⢠37 mins
đď¸ Â What Division II Coaches Really Look For: Recruiting with Bet Naumovski đ
In Part 2 of this conversation, Matt Rogers sits down with world-class coach Bet Naumovski to unpack what NCAA Division II coaches are truly looking for in the recruiting process.
Drawing from decades of experience building championship teams at Queens College, Bet offers an honest, behind-the-scenes look at how Division II recruiting really worksâwhy fit matters more than flash, how coaches evaluate potential beyond stats, and what recruits and families often misunderstand about opportunities at this level.
Bet also shares her lifelong commitment to advocating for equity in womenâs sports and how that perspective shapes the way she recruits, develops, and supports student-athletes. This episode provides clarity, perspective, and practical guidance for anyone navigating the college basketball recruiting journey.
To go deeper, you can find Significant Recruiting: The Playbook for Prospective College Athletes and the companion Basketball Recruitâs Journal at CoachMattRogers.comâtools designed to help recruits stay organized, intentional, and confident throughout the process.
Learn more and connect with Matt Rogers here: https://coachmattrogers.com/
Listen on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, iHeartRadio, and all your favorite podcast platforms.
Did you like what you heard and want more?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:10):
Welcome back to The SignificantCoaching Podcast.
This is our recruiting segment.
I'm your host, Matt Rogers.
In today's episode, I'm joinedby world class coach BET Naski
for part two of ourconversation.
This time focused on therealities and opportunities with
an NCAA division two recruiting.
Bette has evaluated thousands ofathletes built championship
(00:33):
level teams, and helped youngwomen find the right fit both on
the court and in the classroom.
Just as importantly, she hasspent her career advocating for
equity in women's sports,pushing for opportunity,
respect, and resources forfemale student athletes at every
level.
Before we dive in, a quickreminder you can find my book
significant Recruiting theplaybook for prospective college
(00:56):
athletes, along with my newcompanion workbook, the
Basketball recruitsjournal@coachmattrogers.com.
Both are designed to helpstudent athletes stay organized,
intentional, and confidentthroughout the recruiting
journey.
Let's get into part two with mygood friend, coach Bette Nki.
Let's talk a little recruiting,'cause you were really good at
(01:19):
it and you were in therecruiting capital of the world
for a decade and a half.
And you're from Toronto, so youunderstand.
You know how great athletes canbe all in one region.
And you talked about in thefirst segment, when you're in
Queens, you don't have to go toofar to find really good
basketball.
(01:39):
Every university in New Yorkdoesn't have to go more than
about 30 miles to be able tofill the roster if they wanted
to.
Agreed.
And I, and that was one of thethings that made Queens
attractive and kept me there fora while, is.
It's nice being in the mecca ofbasketball for a number of
reasons, but there's a lot oftalent.
A lot of talent.
(02:01):
Did you ever worry about theculture?
When there were too many kidsfrom the city, too many New York
City kids that maybe they allhad that same mindset.
Did you get to that point whereyou're like, I need to pull out
of different areas.
I need to, I need more diversityin terms of what my, how my
roster's built.
(02:22):
Did that ever work?
So that's a, that's aninteresting question.
When I started at Queens thatwas my goal when I got there
was, I inherited a team ofplayers who all knew each other
before they got to Queens,right?
Either they played on the sameAAU team, or they played against
each other in AAU or in highschool.
(02:42):
And I realized that year that Ididn't like that.
I didn't like that because itwas just too.
I don't know, cliquey and theyknew all of the players on the
other teams and I thought, thisisn't a true college experience.
And what I remember about beingan athlete that I really liked
was meeting, like people on myteam weren't all from Toronto.
(03:03):
There was a handful from Torontoand most were within, I would
say, four or five.
Hour drive, but still they grewup in a different city, in a
different culture.
And to me that was a big part ofmy university experience that I
liked a lot.
And I still to this day, reallyenjoy meeting people from other
cities, other cultures, learningfrom and experiencing it.
(03:24):
Because again, you could take acouple things.
And as a student, I felt Ilearned a lot.
Like I thought that the way Igrew up in Toronto was the way
that everybody grew upeverywhere in every city.
And then I realized, oh, that'snot how everybody grows up.
Yeah.
But I liked that it, itchallenged me as a person and it
was part of, my growthexperience as a student.
(03:46):
And when I got to Queens, Ithought, okay, I gotta change
this.
I gotta, have a couple of NewYork City kids and a couple from
upstate.
I do think that was a goodthing.
And then, again, times changed,pandemic hit, during the
pandemic, immediately afterpandemic, I found that people
weren't wanting to go that farfrom home.
There was still that fear ofwhat was going on, and I think
(04:08):
families didn't want to havetheir, sons and daughters go too
far.
So I found that, we the New YorkCity kids were more attractive
to the school than before.
So that kind of evolved.
But when I could be deliberateabout it, I, that was important
to me is to diversify who wehad.
(04:28):
And the other reason is, it'sinteresting because each city
pocket plays basketball a littledifferently.
Does it?
So if you're in, if you're inNew York City, like everybody
drives the ball, everyone wantsto play off the dribble,
everyone can get to the rim.
If you go to upstate New York.
Everybody wants to shoot thethree.
(04:50):
They're pretty good at it.
And other areas I thought didhave that better understanding
of team concepts and team play.
And I started to look at it thatway'cause I thought I,'cause one
when outta the pandemic, we werevery New York City heavy for the
reason that I said, and Ithought, man, we don't have
enough shooters on this team.
Let me go upstate becausethey're everywhere upstate.
(05:12):
So yes, I was definitelydeliberate about the region or
city that I was recruiting.
Did you find yourself thinkingabout some of that too when you
were putting kids together asroommates?
Because I always, yes.
I loved if I had a city kid anda small town kid, yes.
If I could get them togetherjust to see if magic could
happen, yeah.
I was more focused onpersonalities.
(05:34):
But when I could do that havekid from one sitting, kid from
another, put it together, Iabsolutely did.
My first focus was always.
Again, you can't put a neatperson with a messy person'cause
that's not gonna work.
No matter.
No matter what.
So I tried to focus onpersonalities and then again, if
I could do that I wouldabsolutely do that.
How did you find out thosethings?
(05:55):
Did you do a survey with yourincoming newbies?
How did you know there were No,it was just a recruiting
process.
Okay.
And, I feel like it might be alittle more, might be different
for guys, I don't know, I ask alot of questions'cause I'm a,
I'm an inquisitive person tobegin with, right?
So with recruiting, it's justthose conversations and once
they commit and they're goingthrough the process the kids
(06:17):
who, Hey, I need this.
I gotta get it to admissions byFriday and have it to me the
next day.
I knew tend to be the neat kids,right?
They need their ducks in a row.
So I was like, okay, they'll,these are the options of players
who could be together, right?
And the kids who I was like, Ineed it by Friday, and they'd
get it to me, I need it Fridayat five.
They got it to me at 4 59.
(06:40):
That's another kind of kidyou're gonna meet the timeline,
but you're probably morelaissez-faire.
And I thought she may not bethat organized in her room.
I love that it, it just makesyou wonder if I had to go back
and do it again, would I do alittle bit of that survey to
figure that out and then you canget, then you can get creative
with how you wanna, yes.
(07:00):
How you wanna break throughtheir insecurities, and listen,
if I had a kid who I knew wasorganizationally a disaster, I
made sure that she was gonna bewith someone who was relatively
organized to keep her on trackand make sure that she's on time
for meetings and practice.
Yeah.
So you are right.
You definitely think about allthose things.
Maybe they'll rub off on eachother, yes.
Rub off and, yeah.
(07:21):
Or she could say come on, yougotta go.
We're gonna be, five minuteslate.
And if she goes, what?
What's the big deal?
Then hopefully that person wouldexplain why it is a big deal.
That's right.
All right.
Let's get in, let's get intoCoach Bet, the evaluator.
You're sitting on the court, youand I are watching a club game.
What are some of the things thatjump out to you as green flags?
(07:41):
You're like, I need more ofthat.
I wanna see more of this kid.
Are there things that you'redrawn to?
So first again, it's what holedo you have to fill?
What's the piece of the puzzlethat you're looking for?
But one of the one for sure isdoes that person have a motor?
Are they constantly in motion?
So are they, do they have thatmotor transitioning from offense
(08:03):
to defense?
Defense to offense?
Do they instinctually go foroffensive rebounds, making those
extra effort placed, becausethat's also telling me that
person is in shape.
You can't play with a motor ifyour fitness isn't high.
So that kind of tackled twothings competitiveness.
'cause I feel like that is atrait, a skill that is getting a
(08:25):
little bit lost.
So people who hate to lose,because if you hate to lose,
then you're gonna be, I think,proactive about figuring out
solutions for how to win.
I was at a coaching clinic onceand Rick Jeris was the speaker,
and I asked him, what are thethings that you think that, you
either have or you don't, thingsthat you think that you can't
(08:46):
coach like that kid either hasit or not.
And he actually gave me a reallygood answer, and I've always had
in the back of my mind.
He said, hands touch, feel.
He's either you have good handsor you don't.
And I found that he's absolutelyright about that.
Isn't that the case?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like again, you can improve itto a certain point, but it's
always gonna be a deficiency.
(09:07):
Then the other one that he said,which we already talked about
was, your decision making.
Either you make good decisionsor you don't.
And again, you can improve to acertain extent, but that ability
to see the game.
So I do look at that.
If someone has bad hands, Iprobably go, oh, I'm gonna stay
away from her.
And then I absolutely do look atdecision making does she know
what the right pass was?
(09:28):
What the right play was?
Yeah.
Does she take good shots?
And then the other one.
Which again, I think is superimportant and these people stick
out more than ever is the kidswho communicate.
Because before everyone did to acertain extent, but now a kid
talks and or lead, like Godforbid somebody would lead.
You circle that name right offthe bat and you're like, I lead
(09:49):
her.
Whoa.
Let me see if she could play.
Yeah.
So those are things that I thinkdifferentiate.
Players from others right now.
So I'm definitely looking atthose things.
And then I would say potential,and I think that was one of the
areas that I felt like I wasreally good at is I is finding,
looking at somebody and going,okay, she's not quite there, but
(10:11):
there's a lot there that if Ijust tweak, I actually think she
could be really good.
Yeah.
So I thought we were really goodabout finding kind of the
diamonds in the rough and I loveit.
And often they did really well.
I'm interested motor shape,competitiveness, touch hands,
decision making, communication,and potential.
(10:34):
Is love of the game in there atall in terms of do one of those?
Yeah, so I would equate to loveof the game.
So I would, I put that intocompetitiveness.
That's what I wrote down.
That's what I wanna do.
Like the kids who arecompetitive.
Nowadays.
I find that kids play, it'schanging a little bit, but they
(10:55):
don't play with the same outwardemotion.
Yeah.
Like they don't fist pump andhigh five and celebrate as much
as they used to.
Yeah.
I do think that's changing alittle bit because of social
media and what's people are.
Putting out there orhighlighting.
Yeah.
But I think, yeah, what they'rehighlighting.
(11:16):
Good word.
I and I,'cause I feel like whenyou love the game, you are not
afraid to let everybody in thegym know that you love the game.
Your face shows it, your bodylanguage shows it, your
competitive spirit shows it.
So a hundred percent absolutely.
Like I do look at how animated.
Is that person when they play,and again, they don't have to be
the loudest person in the gym orchest bumping or whatever.
(11:38):
Yeah.
In your own way, you celebratewhen good things on the court
happen.
Yeah.
And you know what, you getdisappointed.
There's, it's a differencebetween hanging your head
because you've made a mistakeand you can't move on.
And it's a different thanclapping your hands and being
upset that you just turned theball over.
But then, hey you get down andnow you're like, I'm gonna make
(12:01):
a play.
I'm gonna get a steal For me, Ithink my love of the game came
out on the defensive side of thefloor.
I loved stopping, shutting downthe other team's point guard.
I just I loved it.
I loved making a great passwhere one of my teammates got an
easy score.
I created something simple forthem that they could get a
(12:22):
bucket, and I love shuttingdown.
The other teams guard are, doyou see that when you step on
the floor, is there somethingwhere you're like, gosh, that's
the competitiveness, that's thelove of the game.
I want more of that.
So I think yes.
And I think one of them for meis also I do look at, are you
(12:46):
afraid of the moment Uhhuh?
Yes.
Because I do find that, a lot ofkids are afraid.
They're afraid to make mistakes,so they tend to play in a safe
area.
Yeah.
So are you afraid of the moment?
There was a kid that I recruitedvery recently and it was a big
New York City event here, live,DJ, lighting show, everything.
(13:07):
And I look, I watched her playand we were recruiting her.
When I watched her play in thatevent and she ended up getting
player of the game, she was notthe best player on the team.
There were multiple players whowent and played division one at
Good schools.
Big division one schools.
Yeah.
But she was the player of thegame because she was the leading
scorer.
She got a couple steals and shelooked like she does in every
(13:30):
single other game, like wasrelaxed, calm, stepped to the
free throw line, knocked herfree throws down.
I thought, not afraid of themoment.
And that's a big deal becauseI'm hoping that we're gonna be
in situations where we'replaying in playoff games and in,
in hostile environments.
And it's, you're gonna focus on,again, you're focused on what do
(13:50):
I need to do to win instead ofwhat happens if I make a
mistake?
All these people are watchingme.
And that's the difference,right?
If you're playing afraid to makea mistake, then you're not
playing to win.
You're just playing to not makemistakes.
Yeah.
If you are focused on winning,then you're focused on making
the plays that it will allow theteam to win.
(14:10):
I find that is becoming more andmore of an issue because I find
that anxiety levels that is areal problem right now in, in
college athletics.
Again, that's the world that Iwas in, college athletics, so
every year I felt like that wasa bigger problem than it was the
year before.
Is the level of anxiety thatthese kids have on game day.
(14:35):
And who they were in practiceand who they were when the
parents showed up and thereferees and the other team was
so dramatically different andsometimes very hard to watch as
a coach.
Very sad to watch.
Yeah.
I was that kid.
Yeah.
I, and I still, to this day, Idon't understand it.
I don't understand why I couldbe so free and loose 99% of the
(14:58):
time, and then 1% of the time.
It wasn't there for me.
I couldn't find it.
Is there a difference, coachbetween not afraid of the moment
and rising to the occasion?
Because you talked about thiskid that the occasion was huge
and she stayed the same.
Is there a difference betweennot being afraid and then rising
(15:20):
the occasion?
I do.
We had a player, I'm gonna, I'llname her name, Bria Jackson who
I enjoyed coaching so much, andI've never coached a player who
made so many big plays when weneeded a big play.
So she played every game.
Unafraid.
Yeah.
Unafraid.
If I was like, this is whatthey're doing, you need to shoot
the three.
Okay, I'll shoot.
(15:40):
So she wasn't focused on missingor what if I miss, or what if I,
she never thought that way.
It was just.
I need to do this.
I need to get a steal, I need toget a make, I need to get a, so
always focused on what sheneeded to do.
So always unafraid.
But then there were games andthat year we were about a 500
team.
That was my second year.
We were a 500 team.
(16:01):
And so we were in a lot of closegames and I just don't know
anyone who hit more buzzerbeaters than her to win us a
game and.
Just, she was on, she wasactually on SportsCenter top 10
for hitting a buzzer feeder,sending us into double overtime.
So there, there are, and butthat ability to rise to the
occasion, I think I maybecoached two, maybe three people
(16:27):
in over 20 years of coaching whocould really do that.
Yeah.
It's such a special gift.
I just, I remember my, thatgroup we were talking about
earlier, you had your four orfive, I had my four or five, I
had a Matt Regan.
He was just never afraid of themoment.
It didn't matter if it was startof the game or lend the game.
He was gonna be that guy.
But then I had another hispartner guard on the other side
(16:48):
of the floor was Ben Hebel.
And Ben, just, when it was timeto hit the big shot, or take the
big shot, he wanted it.
It was disappointed if he didn'tget that.
So I, it is just I think kidsneed to understand when we're
out recruiting, we're watchingthose things.
We're watching what yourshoulders are doing and what
(17:09):
your head, what your eyes aredoing in those crucial moments.
How are you reacting whenthere's a minute left and you
gotta step up the line and makea free throw, and you're down
water, down to, what is that?
Yeah, I'm gonna say like youprobably noticed that when you
asked me things I look for, Ididn't name one thing that
involves skill, right?
(17:29):
Because I think that you canteach that.
I agree.
Like I, I can teach you how tobe a better shooter.
I can teach you how to finisharound the rim better.
And obviously I, that's part ofit.
Hey we need a shooter next year,so I'm gonna be looking for the
shooter.
But there's a lot of shootersout there.
So the skill is that's just thebeginning of it.
(17:50):
I'm truly trying to look forthings that I can teach or I
can't, or I, you can teach it,but by the time you really are
good at it, it might be in yoursenior year.
Yeah.
And I don't have four years towait for you to be better at
that'cause some things really dotake.
(18:12):
Just years before you're averageat it.
Yes.
Yeah.
Is there an overrated skill inrecruiting?
What a great question.
They're an overrated skill.
I don't think so, because Ithink everything comes down to a
coach's philosophy.
This, these are my philosophies.
(18:34):
But another coach is gonna saythere are some coaches who think
the exact opposite of me.
Yeah.
Who think like I, I don't wannahave to teach any of that.
I want you to be ready to shootthe ball when you come in.
Yeah.
I don't wanna have to teach youhow to finish around the rim.
I need you to, I just talked toHeather Macy.
That was Heather Macy.
She I don't wanna, I don'twanna, if I have to teach you
how to get better at that, thenI'm gonna find somebody else.
(18:56):
But I also feel like that's thelevel of play.
If you're at division one, I dothink that like you gotta be
ready, you do, like divisiontwo, I understand that I'm gonna
be probably doing a little bitmore teaching from skill
standpoint than a division onecoach.
So I don't wanna sit here andsay that any skill is overrated.
'cause I think that comes to acoach's philosophy.
And there's a coach who's gonnasee it that way, that your skill
(19:19):
is.
Valuable and that's what they'remost focused on.
There's a lot of coaches who sayI don't wanna have to teach or
coach any of the off the coursestuff.
I'm just going to focus on thebasketball stuff.
Yeah.
And listen I wish that was myphilosophy'cause I would
probably sleep a lot better andnot be so stressed out.
Yeah.
But I do feel the, what I amdoing ultimately is preparing
(19:43):
these young people for lifeafter sport.
I do.
Yeah.
And I think the more we havethese conversations, the more
you realize who you are.
Yeah.
Because those are the thingsthat always come back up.
You and I are teachers, we gotinto this not to win
championships.
I wanna teach kids how to worktogether so they can win a
championship together.
Yeah.
We have the same goal, but Ilove the teaching side.
(20:04):
I love when the light bulb goesoff.
Me too.
Me too.
Is there an underrated skill?
That players need to be thinkingabout when coaches are out
recruiting, is there somethingthat they don't put enough time
into?
So I think it's communicationand leadership.
I do, because I think that,those are the two of the weakest
(20:28):
areas of athletics right now.
Is we used to do a lot, we triedto do as much team building
stuff as we possibly could, andwe used to bring the Marines in
at the beginning of the year todo some team building and some
leadership training.
And one of the things that, thatthe captain said to me, because
they're, listen, they're seeingthe same issues trying to train,
(20:49):
cadets, and they, he said, thisgeneration they wanna lead as a
pack.
They're reluctant to step awayfrom the pack and lead.
And he said that to me and Ithought a lot about it.
And I thought, I think we'reexperiencing the same thing in
athletics.
Yeah.
And there's just a greater fearthan I think there's ever been
(21:10):
before.
And I think social media has alot to do with it because we,
there's a lot of bullying, a lotof shaming, and people are
afraid to step out from thegroup and speak their mind
because they're afraid of.
What's that going to lead to?
People talking about me notliking me, posting this on
social media about me.
(21:31):
And he said the problem when youtry to lead as a PAC is you
can't see the direction thatyou're going in'cause you're
amongst the pac.
Someone has to step away fromthe PAC and see the big picture
and know where you're leadingto.
And I do think that there's nota lot of or that kids are.
Reluctant to lead.
They really are reluctant tostep away from the group and
(21:53):
fitting in and belonging.
Although we all listen, wematter.
We cared about that as well.
Obviously, growing up you wantedto fit in.
You wanted to belong, but I feellike that's become a bigger goal
for them than it ever has beenin the past.
And I think because of thesocial media, people will put on
a post about them.
So I do think that leadershipand communication is now a skill
(22:17):
that will separate you from yourpeers very quickly.
I agree.
The metaphor that popped in myhead is the conductor of an
orchestra.
I might be the greatest violistin the world, and I might be
frustrated that guy or galconduct conducting us and
leading us maybe isn't as goodas I am.
(22:37):
It's the courage that it takesto lead that group right is so
hard and so hard to find.
And I think of the MichaelFastbender, Steve Jobs movie.
I thought they did such a great,I don't know if you watch that.
No, it's worth your time.
'cause they did such a great jobof pinpointing why Steve Jobs.
Was so great at what he did.
(23:00):
He wasn't a great coder, hewasn't a great, great with
mechanics, but it's, it was hisvision and being able to explain
his vision and help others getthere.
And to me, that's the greatestsign of any coach.
Yeah, you imagine and you canexplain it and get everybody on
board to get there.
(23:20):
But that's that, again, it'sthat again, that's what we talk
about, anxiety and it's what'syour motivation?
Yeah.
Are you, is your motivation thefear of failure?
So I'm doing this because I'mafraid that if I fail, this is
gonna be, or is my motivation,the will, the want to achieve my
goal.
And not, kids don't understandenough that you're gonna be on
(23:42):
two different pathways and oneis way more enjoyable than the
other.
When I'm motivated for, when I'mfocused on what I want rather
than what I want to avoid, yeah,I will enjoy sports so much
better.
Because my experience is more ofa positive experience.
'cause I'm always thinking abouthow am I gonna win?
How am I gonna achieve, how am Igoing to, and yes, it's a grind,
(24:05):
it's difficult, but when mymotivation is just focused on
not failing, not, it's justnegative, right?
Because your motivation is whatyou don't want to see happen
versus, so you're either chasingwhat you want to see happen or
running away from what you don'twant to see happen, right?
Running towards something is amuch more enjoyable than running
(24:27):
away from it.
And I, listen, I've talked to myteams about that and I think
that sometimes what's happeningwith the transfer portal?
Are you going in the transferportal'cause you're running away
from something, or are you goinginto the portal because you're
running towards something?
So when I give the example of,my student who decided to go in
at least she was running towardssomething.
She was running towards herdream.
Yeah.
If you go in it because, heycoach wants me to play defense
(24:50):
here and I'm not a defensiveguy.
Yeah.
Guess what?
There's no coach who's gonnaever say, don't worry about
defense over here like you, youcan't outrun it.
So I do think that makes a bigdifference in the experience
that you have through athletics.
Are you running towardssomething or are you running
away from something?
That's why I'm gonna keeppushing you to get back on the
sideline sooner rather than thatright there.
(25:12):
Thanks, coach.
I love that.
And when you need an assistant,you just holler and I'll come
running deal.
I'll follow you wherever you go.
You've given me so much timetoday.
Give parents a piece of advicewho've got a teenager going
through the recruiting journey.
W what's the one thing that youthink they need to be focusing
on?
(25:34):
I think it's hard to say onething, but if I was to say one
thing, it would be drown out thenoise.
Because every when your childhas a talent.
Everybody has an opinion on whatthey should do with that talent,
where they should bring it, whatthey should do, where they
(25:55):
should go, and it can be adistraction.
So people's motivation isobviously to help, but in the
end I think it becomes adistraction and I think that you
lose yourselves in the process.
Finding that balance of drowningout the noise and sticking to
(26:17):
what matters to you as a family.
And don't look to the right anddon't look to the left about,
this person did this, and my sonor daughter is better, so they
need to do equal or more.
It's not about that at all, butpeople easily make it about
that.
And if so, I think drown out thenoise.
Stay true to your family'svalues and.
(26:42):
Choose the school that reallyvalues your son or daughter and
sees them as an important partof that team.
Not in a year or two.
You're gonna develop into thestarting point or the back.
Like where does, where's theright fit?
(27:05):
And I think too many familiesjump at.
The first highest offer.
So for example, I am beingrecruited by mid-majors, but One
Power Five school jumped in, soI'm gonna go there.
'cause it's the higher school,you're probably a mid-major
person.
(27:25):
That's where most of yourrecruiting happens.
So you're probably a mid-major.
That's right.
So I just really think that alot of stuff is being distorted
and lost in all of this.
I do think at the end of theday, after four years, what you
remember is the relationshipsthat you built in those four
years as a student.
(27:46):
I still talk to my mentor.
Yeah.
It's 30 years later and I don'tknow where I'd be without her.
Yeah.
But that would be my biggestadvice is out the noise.
Do your research.
Choose the school that is theright fit.
And feels right for the familyand maintain your family values
through this process.
(28:08):
Would you change that advice ifI told you're talking to 16 and
17 year olds instead of parents,or would you come at a different
angle?
I think that those 16 and 17year olds have more voice, more
voices at them than the parentsdo because their peers are, and
everybody, and.
They also need to do theirresearch.
(28:31):
They have to ask questions, andthis generation asks less
questions in the process thanthey used to.
And they need to ask thequestions that are important to
them, not because, Hey, myfriend went on a visit and they
asked these questions, so thatsounds good.
So I'm gonna ask them.
You have to come up with a setof questions as a family that's
(28:53):
gonna allow you to decide thatthis is the right fit for my
student.
And I will also say, and I knowthat people are gonna disagree
with this, but you're asking me,so I'm gonna give my opinion, if
you're going into a school withthe notion that I'm gonna go
there with the plan to jump inthe portal after a year.
(29:18):
I don't like that plan at all.
I think, I don't think it's fairto the coaches who are
recruiting you, who genuinelybelieve in your child, and if
that's what you wanna do as afamily.
'cause that's what's importantto you, then at least tell that
to the coach.
Yeah.
Hey, like how do you feel about,I would ask that question.
How do you feel about studentswho just come to your school for
(29:38):
one year because they want to,'cause guess what?
There are some coaches will say,doesn't bother me at all.
I just wanna win.
And there are other coaches whowill say, I really want this to
be a four year a, a four yearrelationship.
I'd love to work with you forfour years.
You've gotta be transparent inthe questions that you're
asking, but you also have to betransparent if you have to
(30:01):
answer, when coaches ask youquestions, parents and student,
you have to be honest.
Because that's where theheadbutting happens in your
first freshman year.
Because coaches quickly realizeI thought you were a because you
told me that you were A, butyou're B and now I don't like
it, and now I'm giving youconsequences.
(30:22):
And yeah, but if you would'vejust told me,'cause hey, listen
I really wanted my kids to getinto the gym.
Get we have a gun.
It's over$10,000.
Use it, please.
That's right.
You could use it whenever youwant, but get on the gun.
And then you she's a gym ratcoach.
You'll have to kick her out.
Okay.
By the end of the year, I cancount how many times she shot on
the machine in one hand.
That's right.
That's a stickler for me.
(30:43):
So guess what?
I'm gonna be constantly on youabout that, and I can't imagine
that's gonna be fun for you.
Yeah, it's so I think thathonesty and transparency is
super important, not just forthe coaches, but for the
student, the athlete, and theparents as well.
I totally agree.
There's a great quote from TedLasso where he says, be curious,
not judgmental.
(31:04):
We, you gotta go into everysituation going, how could this
make my life better?
Yeah.
It may be hard, it may be a hardpath to that, but I see how this
can help me with some of thethings I don't have right now.
May I'm, I don't think I'm readyto be an adult.
Is this person in front of me?
Can they help me become thatadult and help me get over some
(31:27):
of these insecurities?
That's a really good pointthough, Matt, is I think that
you also, first of all, I dothink that as a family, once you
realize this is what you wannado and schools are starting to
show interest, I do think thatyou have to have conversations
as a family.
Agreed.
And I think one of theconversations to be had is what
do.
What do when it's all said anddone after four years, when we
(31:51):
look back, what do we hope wasaccomplished from those four
years?
Is it that I want my son ordaughter to, to be ready for the
real world or is it that,listen, the financial piece is
the most important piece to us.
We wanna make sure that we arenot in debt after this.
It's your journey.
It's your thing As a family, I'mnot here to judge you.
If that's where your values are,that's what you, that's what it
(32:13):
is.
But get on the same page withthat and then make sure that
you're being transparent aboutthat with the coaches who are
recruiting you.
'cause like I said, many timesin this.
This is just my opinion, butthere's a coach who has the
exact opposite opinion than me.
So you might not be the playerfor me, but that doesn't mean
that you're not the right playerfor anybody, right?
(32:35):
It's just you're not the rightfit for me, just as I am.
Not for you.
But there is going to be a coachout there who says, I don't care
that person doesn't talk as longas they defend and they do
things right.
Yeah.
So if you're honest about all ofthat, then you're, you are gonna
find the right coach for you andthe right school for you and the
right fit, and probably notwanna jump into the transfer
(32:55):
portal.
It's, and maybe I'm just too oldschool.
Maybe the game has passed me by,but I look at recruiting as a
marriage, those points you justmade.
If I'm getting married thinkingwell, I can always go get a
divorce attorney.
You've got one leg out the dooralready.
This isn't somebody you careabout and wanna spend the life
with, and if I'm gonna go aftera coach or a school and I wanna
(33:17):
play for them, I want to go init saying, I wanna be with you.
As long as I can be with you.
I'm committing to you because Isee something special that I
wanna be a part of every day.
As a coach, I'm saying that, andas a student athlete, I need to
say that I wanna be a part ofthat journey.
And that's why, for all thefamilies I, I talk to, I don't
(33:39):
take many honest clients becausethere's too often I don't feel
that, I don't feel like you'rein this for the right reasons.
I'm not the right coach for youif you don't want this to be a
great educational experience foryou.
Yeah.
And I think the other is what?
What kind of, because I thinkthis is important to discuss as
a family, but also discuss tothe coaches, what type of
(34:01):
relationship do you want withthat college coach?
That's right, because that haschanged as well over time.
In the past the student athleteslooked at us more as.
Mentors they would ask you foradvice about life advice, and I
think more and more it's becometransactional.
(34:21):
I hate to say that.
Yeah.
But if you are, but it's not foreverybody, right?
Like for me, again, I got intothis because I genuinely wanna
help students and hopefully tryto provide them with the
transformational experience.
And I know that's becomingharder and harder, but that's
who I am.
And I can't be something thatI'm not.
It's important to me to findstudents who are like, when I
(34:42):
come here, that's what'simportant to me is that I learn
and I grow as a human being, andI think that coach is gonna help
me do that.
If you are kinda like, I reallydon't care about having a
relationship with my coach.
I just want to play.
I'm not judging you, I'm justnot the coach for you.
Yeah.
But there is one for you.
There is someone who's also Hey,I just wanna win games and if
(35:04):
you can help me win games,you're gonna be on the court.
I know you could win achampionship at the D one level,
but I'm not sure.
You weren't born to be a D threecoach.
I, because I think all thethings you speak of, I think
that's still there, where it'sgotten and lost to D one and D
two, that love of the game andlove of the relationships and
kids that wanna play for theright reasons.
(35:26):
And, I'm still a believer that Dthree is hanging on to that, and
I hope they don't lose that.
I agree.
So I agree, coach, thank you somuch for your time.
Just an honor to talk to you anda great pleasure to call you a
friend and I wish we would'vetalked more these last 12 years,
but I wish you well and I'll becheering for you wherever you
go.
(35:46):
Thank you so much.
I really enjoyed it.
Thanks for the opportunity andlikewise, I have a ton of
respect for you.
So I enjoy the conversation verymuch.
Thank you so much.
And that's a wrap on part two ofmy conversation with Coach Bet
Naski her insight into NCAAdivision two recruiting.
Her commitment to equity inwomen's sports and her care for
the people behind the processare reminders that recruiting is
(36:10):
about far more than offers androsters.
It's about fit opportunity andlong-term growth.
And it doesn't really matterwhat division level you wanna
play at.
If today's episode help bringsome clarity to your recruiting
journey, please follow, rate andshare the podcast on whatever
platform you're listing on.
And don't forget, you can findsignificant recruiting the
(36:31):
playbook for prospective collegeathletes and the basketball
recruitsjournal@coachmattrogers.com
and@amazon.com.
Until next time, stay focused onwhat you can control.
Stay humble and keep chasingsignificance.
Welcome back to The SignificantCoaching Podcast.
This is our recruiting segment.
I'm your host, Matt Rogers.
In today's episode, I'm joinedby world class coach BET Naski
for part two of ourconversation.
This time focused on therealities and opportunities with
an NCAA division two recruiting.
Bette has evaluated thousands ofathletes built championship
(00:33):
level teams, and helped youngwomen find the right fit both on
the court and in the classroom.
Just as importantly, she hasspent her career advocating for
equity in women's sports,pushing for opportunity,
respect, and resources forfemale student athletes at every
level.
Before we dive in, a quickreminder you can find my book
significant Recruiting theplaybook for prospective college
(00:56):
athletes, along with my newcompanion workbook, the
Basketball recruitsjournal@coachmattrogers.com.
Both are designed to helpstudent athletes stay organized,
intentional, and confidentthroughout the recruiting
journey.
Let's get into part two with mygood friend, coach Bette Nki.
Let's talk a little recruiting,'cause you were really good at
(01:19):
it and you were in therecruiting capital of the world
for a decade and a half.
And you're from Toronto, so youunderstand.
You know how great athletes canbe all in one region.
And you talked about in thefirst segment, when you're in
Queens, you don't have to go toofar to find really good
basketball.
(01:39):
Every university in New Yorkdoesn't have to go more than
about 30 miles to be able tofill the roster if they wanted
to.
Agreed.
And I, and that was one of thethings that made Queens
attractive and kept me there fora while, is.
It's nice being in the mecca ofbasketball for a number of
reasons, but there's a lot oftalent.
A lot of talent.
(02:01):
Did you ever worry about theculture?
When there were too many kidsfrom the city, too many New York
City kids that maybe they allhad that same mindset.
Did you get to that point whereyou're like, I need to pull out
of different areas.
I need to, I need more diversityin terms of what my, how my
roster's built.
(02:22):
Did that ever work?
So that's a, that's aninteresting question.
When I started at Queens thatwas my goal when I got there
was, I inherited a team ofplayers who all knew each other
before they got to Queens,right?
Either they played on the sameAAU team, or they played against
each other in AAU or in highschool.
(02:42):
And I realized that year that Ididn't like that.
I didn't like that because itwas just too.
I don't know, cliquey and theyknew all of the players on the
other teams and I thought, thisisn't a true college experience.
And what I remember about beingan athlete that I really liked
was meeting, like people on myteam weren't all from Toronto.
(03:03):
There was a handful from Torontoand most were within, I would
say, four or five.
Hour drive, but still they grewup in a different city, in a
different culture.
And to me that was a big part ofmy university experience that I
liked a lot.
And I still to this day, reallyenjoy meeting people from other
cities, other cultures, learningfrom and experiencing it.
(03:24):
Because again, you could take acouple things.
And as a student, I felt Ilearned a lot.
Like I thought that the way Igrew up in Toronto was the way
that everybody grew upeverywhere in every city.
And then I realized, oh, that'snot how everybody grows up.
Yeah.
But I liked that it, itchallenged me as a person and it
was part of, my growthexperience as a student.
(03:46):
And when I got to Queens, Ithought, okay, I gotta change
this.
I gotta, have a couple of NewYork City kids and a couple from
upstate.
I do think that was a goodthing.
And then, again, times changed,pandemic hit, during the
pandemic, immediately afterpandemic, I found that people
weren't wanting to go that farfrom home.
There was still that fear ofwhat was going on, and I think
(04:08):
families didn't want to havetheir, sons and daughters go too
far.
So I found that, we the New YorkCity kids were more attractive
to the school than before.
So that kind of evolved.
But when I could be deliberateabout it, I, that was important
to me is to diversify who wehad.
(04:28):
And the other reason is, it'sinteresting because each city
pocket plays basketball a littledifferently.
Does it?
So if you're in, if you're inNew York City, like everybody
drives the ball, everyone wantsto play off the dribble,
everyone can get to the rim.
If you go to upstate New York.
Everybody wants to shoot thethree.
(04:50):
They're pretty good at it.
And other areas I thought didhave that better understanding
of team concepts and team play.
And I started to look at it thatway'cause I thought I,'cause one
when outta the pandemic, we werevery New York City heavy for the
reason that I said, and Ithought, man, we don't have
enough shooters on this team.
Let me go upstate becausethey're everywhere upstate.
(05:12):
So yes, I was definitelydeliberate about the region or
city that I was recruiting.
Did you find yourself thinkingabout some of that too when you
were putting kids together asroommates?
Because I always, yes.
I loved if I had a city kid anda small town kid, yes.
If I could get them togetherjust to see if magic could
happen, yeah.
I was more focused onpersonalities.
(05:34):
But when I could do that havekid from one sitting, kid from
another, put it together, Iabsolutely did.
My first focus was always.
Again, you can't put a neatperson with a messy person'cause
that's not gonna work.
No matter.
No matter what.
So I tried to focus onpersonalities and then again, if
I could do that I wouldabsolutely do that.
How did you find out thosethings?
(05:55):
Did you do a survey with yourincoming newbies?
How did you know there were No,it was just a recruiting
process.
Okay.
And, I feel like it might be alittle more, might be different
for guys, I don't know, I ask alot of questions'cause I'm a,
I'm an inquisitive person tobegin with, right?
So with recruiting, it's justthose conversations and once
they commit and they're goingthrough the process the kids
(06:17):
who, Hey, I need this.
I gotta get it to admissions byFriday and have it to me the
next day.
I knew tend to be the neat kids,right?
They need their ducks in a row.
So I was like, okay, they'll,these are the options of players
who could be together, right?
And the kids who I was like, Ineed it by Friday, and they'd
get it to me, I need it Fridayat five.
They got it to me at 4 59.
(06:40):
That's another kind of kidyou're gonna meet the timeline,
but you're probably morelaissez-faire.
And I thought she may not bethat organized in her room.
I love that it, it just makesyou wonder if I had to go back
and do it again, would I do alittle bit of that survey to
figure that out and then you canget, then you can get creative
with how you wanna, yes.
(07:00):
How you wanna break throughtheir insecurities, and listen,
if I had a kid who I knew wasorganizationally a disaster, I
made sure that she was gonna bewith someone who was relatively
organized to keep her on trackand make sure that she's on time
for meetings and practice.
Yeah.
So you are right.
You definitely think about allthose things.
Maybe they'll rub off on eachother, yes.
Rub off and, yeah.
(07:21):
Or she could say come on, yougotta go.
We're gonna be, five minuteslate.
And if she goes, what?
What's the big deal?
Then hopefully that person wouldexplain why it is a big deal.
That's right.
All right.
Let's get in, let's get intoCoach Bet, the evaluator.
You're sitting on the court, youand I are watching a club game.
What are some of the things thatjump out to you as green flags?
(07:41):
You're like, I need more ofthat.
I wanna see more of this kid.
Are there things that you'redrawn to?
So first again, it's what holedo you have to fill?
What's the piece of the puzzlethat you're looking for?
But one of the one for sure isdoes that person have a motor?
Are they constantly in motion?
So are they, do they have thatmotor transitioning from offense
(08:03):
to defense?
Defense to offense?
Do they instinctually go foroffensive rebounds, making those
extra effort placed, becausethat's also telling me that
person is in shape.
You can't play with a motor ifyour fitness isn't high.
So that kind of tackled twothings competitiveness.
'cause I feel like that is atrait, a skill that is getting a
(08:25):
little bit lost.
So people who hate to lose,because if you hate to lose,
then you're gonna be, I think,proactive about figuring out
solutions for how to win.
I was at a coaching clinic onceand Rick Jeris was the speaker,
and I asked him, what are thethings that you think that, you
either have or you don't, thingsthat you think that you can't
(08:46):
coach like that kid either hasit or not.
And he actually gave me a reallygood answer, and I've always had
in the back of my mind.
He said, hands touch, feel.
He's either you have good handsor you don't.
And I found that he's absolutelyright about that.
Isn't that the case?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like again, you can improve itto a certain point, but it's
always gonna be a deficiency.
(09:07):
Then the other one that he said,which we already talked about
was, your decision making.
Either you make good decisionsor you don't.
And again, you can improve to acertain extent, but that ability
to see the game.
So I do look at that.
If someone has bad hands, Iprobably go, oh, I'm gonna stay
away from her.
And then I absolutely do look atdecision making does she know
what the right pass was?
(09:28):
What the right play was?
Yeah.
Does she take good shots?
And then the other one.
Which again, I think is superimportant and these people stick
out more than ever is the kidswho communicate.
Because before everyone did to acertain extent, but now a kid
talks and or lead, like Godforbid somebody would lead.
You circle that name right offthe bat and you're like, I lead
(09:49):
her.
Whoa.
Let me see if she could play.
Yeah.
So those are things that I thinkdifferentiate.
Players from others right now.
So I'm definitely looking atthose things.
And then I would say potential,and I think that was one of the
areas that I felt like I wasreally good at is I is finding,
looking at somebody and going,okay, she's not quite there, but
(10:11):
there's a lot there that if Ijust tweak, I actually think she
could be really good.
Yeah.
So I thought we were really goodabout finding kind of the
diamonds in the rough and I loveit.
And often they did really well.
I'm interested motor shape,competitiveness, touch hands,
decision making, communication,and potential.
(10:34):
Is love of the game in there atall in terms of do one of those?
Yeah, so I would equate to loveof the game.
So I would, I put that intocompetitiveness.
That's what I wrote down.
That's what I wanna do.
Like the kids who arecompetitive.
Nowadays.
I find that kids play, it'schanging a little bit, but they
(10:55):
don't play with the same outwardemotion.
Yeah.
Like they don't fist pump andhigh five and celebrate as much
as they used to.
Yeah.
I do think that's changing alittle bit because of social
media and what's people are.
Putting out there orhighlighting.
Yeah.
But I think, yeah, what they'rehighlighting.
(11:16):
Good word.
I and I,'cause I feel like whenyou love the game, you are not
afraid to let everybody in thegym know that you love the game.
Your face shows it, your bodylanguage shows it, your
competitive spirit shows it.
So a hundred percent absolutely.
Like I do look at how animated.
Is that person when they play,and again, they don't have to be
the loudest person in the gym orchest bumping or whatever.
(11:38):
Yeah.
In your own way, you celebratewhen good things on the court
happen.
Yeah.
And you know what, you getdisappointed.
There's, it's a differencebetween hanging your head
because you've made a mistakeand you can't move on.
And it's a different thanclapping your hands and being
upset that you just turned theball over.
But then, hey you get down andnow you're like, I'm gonna make
(12:01):
a play.
I'm gonna get a steal For me, Ithink my love of the game came
out on the defensive side of thefloor.
I loved stopping, shutting downthe other team's point guard.
I just I loved it.
I loved making a great passwhere one of my teammates got an
easy score.
I created something simple forthem that they could get a
(12:22):
bucket, and I love shuttingdown.
The other teams guard are, doyou see that when you step on
the floor, is there somethingwhere you're like, gosh, that's
the competitiveness, that's thelove of the game.
I want more of that.
So I think yes.
And I think one of them for meis also I do look at, are you
(12:46):
afraid of the moment Uhhuh?
Yes.
Because I do find that, a lot ofkids are afraid.
They're afraid to make mistakes,so they tend to play in a safe
area.
Yeah.
So are you afraid of the moment?
There was a kid that I recruitedvery recently and it was a big
New York City event here, live,DJ, lighting show, everything.
(13:07):
And I look, I watched her playand we were recruiting her.
When I watched her play in thatevent and she ended up getting
player of the game, she was notthe best player on the team.
There were multiple players whowent and played division one at
Good schools.
Big division one schools.
Yeah.
But she was the player of thegame because she was the leading
scorer.
She got a couple steals and shelooked like she does in every
(13:30):
single other game, like wasrelaxed, calm, stepped to the
free throw line, knocked herfree throws down.
I thought, not afraid of themoment.
And that's a big deal becauseI'm hoping that we're gonna be
in situations where we'replaying in playoff games and in,
in hostile environments.
And it's, you're gonna focus on,again, you're focused on what do
(13:50):
I need to do to win instead ofwhat happens if I make a
mistake?
All these people are watchingme.
And that's the difference,right?
If you're playing afraid to makea mistake, then you're not
playing to win.
You're just playing to not makemistakes.
Yeah.
If you are focused on winning,then you're focused on making
the plays that it will allow theteam to win.
(14:10):
I find that is becoming more andmore of an issue because I find
that anxiety levels that is areal problem right now in, in
college athletics.
Again, that's the world that Iwas in, college athletics, so
every year I felt like that wasa bigger problem than it was the
year before.
Is the level of anxiety thatthese kids have on game day.
(14:35):
And who they were in practiceand who they were when the
parents showed up and thereferees and the other team was
so dramatically different andsometimes very hard to watch as
a coach.
Very sad to watch.
Yeah.
I was that kid.
Yeah.
I, and I still, to this day, Idon't understand it.
I don't understand why I couldbe so free and loose 99% of the
(14:58):
time, and then 1% of the time.
It wasn't there for me.
I couldn't find it.
Is there a difference, coachbetween not afraid of the moment
and rising to the occasion?
Because you talked about thiskid that the occasion was huge
and she stayed the same.
Is there a difference betweennot being afraid and then rising
(15:20):
the occasion?
I do.
We had a player, I'm gonna, I'llname her name, Bria Jackson who
I enjoyed coaching so much, andI've never coached a player who
made so many big plays when weneeded a big play.
So she played every game.
Unafraid.
Yeah.
Unafraid.
If I was like, this is whatthey're doing, you need to shoot
the three.
Okay, I'll shoot.
(15:40):
So she wasn't focused on missingor what if I miss, or what if I,
she never thought that way.
It was just.
I need to do this.
I need to get a steal, I need toget a make, I need to get a, so
always focused on what sheneeded to do.
So always unafraid.
But then there were games andthat year we were about a 500
team.
That was my second year.
We were a 500 team.
(16:01):
And so we were in a lot of closegames and I just don't know
anyone who hit more buzzerbeaters than her to win us a
game and.
Just, she was on, she wasactually on SportsCenter top 10
for hitting a buzzer feeder,sending us into double overtime.
So there, there are, and butthat ability to rise to the
occasion, I think I maybecoached two, maybe three people
(16:27):
in over 20 years of coaching whocould really do that.
Yeah.
It's such a special gift.
I just, I remember my, thatgroup we were talking about
earlier, you had your four orfive, I had my four or five, I
had a Matt Regan.
He was just never afraid of themoment.
It didn't matter if it was startof the game or lend the game.
He was gonna be that guy.
But then I had another hispartner guard on the other side
(16:48):
of the floor was Ben Hebel.
And Ben, just, when it was timeto hit the big shot, or take the
big shot, he wanted it.
It was disappointed if he didn'tget that.
So I, it is just I think kidsneed to understand when we're
out recruiting, we're watchingthose things.
We're watching what yourshoulders are doing and what
(17:09):
your head, what your eyes aredoing in those crucial moments.
How are you reacting whenthere's a minute left and you
gotta step up the line and makea free throw, and you're down
water, down to, what is that?
Yeah, I'm gonna say like youprobably noticed that when you
asked me things I look for, Ididn't name one thing that
involves skill, right?
(17:29):
Because I think that you canteach that.
I agree.
Like I, I can teach you how tobe a better shooter.
I can teach you how to finisharound the rim better.
And obviously I, that's part ofit.
Hey we need a shooter next year,so I'm gonna be looking for the
shooter.
But there's a lot of shootersout there.
So the skill is that's just thebeginning of it.
(17:50):
I'm truly trying to look forthings that I can teach or I
can't, or I, you can teach it,but by the time you really are
good at it, it might be in yoursenior year.
Yeah.
And I don't have four years towait for you to be better at
that'cause some things really dotake.
(18:12):
Just years before you're averageat it.
Yes.
Yeah.
Is there an overrated skill inrecruiting?
What a great question.
They're an overrated skill.
I don't think so, because Ithink everything comes down to a
coach's philosophy.
This, these are my philosophies.
(18:34):
But another coach is gonna saythere are some coaches who think
the exact opposite of me.
Yeah.
Who think like I, I don't wannahave to teach any of that.
I want you to be ready to shootthe ball when you come in.
Yeah.
I don't wanna have to teach youhow to finish around the rim.
I need you to, I just talked toHeather Macy.
That was Heather Macy.
She I don't wanna, I don'twanna, if I have to teach you
how to get better at that, thenI'm gonna find somebody else.
(18:56):
But I also feel like that's thelevel of play.
If you're at division one, I dothink that like you gotta be
ready, you do, like divisiontwo, I understand that I'm gonna
be probably doing a little bitmore teaching from skill
standpoint than a division onecoach.
So I don't wanna sit here andsay that any skill is overrated.
'cause I think that comes to acoach's philosophy.
And there's a coach who's gonnasee it that way, that your skill
(19:19):
is.
Valuable and that's what they'remost focused on.
There's a lot of coaches who sayI don't wanna have to teach or
coach any of the off the coursestuff.
I'm just going to focus on thebasketball stuff.
Yeah.
And listen I wish that was myphilosophy'cause I would
probably sleep a lot better andnot be so stressed out.
Yeah.
But I do feel the, what I amdoing ultimately is preparing
(19:43):
these young people for lifeafter sport.
I do.
Yeah.
And I think the more we havethese conversations, the more
you realize who you are.
Yeah.
Because those are the thingsthat always come back up.
You and I are teachers, we gotinto this not to win
championships.
I wanna teach kids how to worktogether so they can win a
championship together.
Yeah.
We have the same goal, but Ilove the teaching side.
(20:04):
I love when the light bulb goesoff.
Me too.
Me too.
Is there an underrated skill?
That players need to be thinkingabout when coaches are out
recruiting, is there somethingthat they don't put enough time
into?
So I think it's communicationand leadership.
I do, because I think that,those are the two of the weakest
(20:28):
areas of athletics right now.
Is we used to do a lot, we triedto do as much team building
stuff as we possibly could, andwe used to bring the Marines in
at the beginning of the year todo some team building and some
leadership training.
And one of the things that, thatthe captain said to me, because
they're, listen, they're seeingthe same issues trying to train,
(20:49):
cadets, and they, he said, thisgeneration they wanna lead as a
pack.
They're reluctant to step awayfrom the pack and lead.
And he said that to me and Ithought a lot about it.
And I thought, I think we'reexperiencing the same thing in
athletics.
Yeah.
And there's just a greater fearthan I think there's ever been
(21:10):
before.
And I think social media has alot to do with it because we,
there's a lot of bullying, a lotof shaming, and people are
afraid to step out from thegroup and speak their mind
because they're afraid of.
What's that going to lead to?
People talking about me notliking me, posting this on
social media about me.
(21:31):
And he said the problem when youtry to lead as a PAC is you
can't see the direction thatyou're going in'cause you're
amongst the pac.
Someone has to step away fromthe PAC and see the big picture
and know where you're leadingto.
And I do think that there's nota lot of or that kids are.
Reluctant to lead.
They really are reluctant tostep away from the group and
(21:53):
fitting in and belonging.
Although we all listen, wematter.
We cared about that as well.
Obviously, growing up you wantedto fit in.
You wanted to belong, but I feellike that's become a bigger goal
for them than it ever has beenin the past.
And I think because of thesocial media, people will put on
a post about them.
So I do think that leadershipand communication is now a skill
(22:17):
that will separate you from yourpeers very quickly.
I agree.
The metaphor that popped in myhead is the conductor of an
orchestra.
I might be the greatest violistin the world, and I might be
frustrated that guy or galconduct conducting us and
leading us maybe isn't as goodas I am.
(22:37):
It's the courage that it takesto lead that group right is so
hard and so hard to find.
And I think of the MichaelFastbender, Steve Jobs movie.
I thought they did such a great,I don't know if you watch that.
No, it's worth your time.
'cause they did such a great jobof pinpointing why Steve Jobs.
Was so great at what he did.
(23:00):
He wasn't a great coder, hewasn't a great, great with
mechanics, but it's, it was hisvision and being able to explain
his vision and help others getthere.
And to me, that's the greatestsign of any coach.
Yeah, you imagine and you canexplain it and get everybody on
board to get there.
(23:20):
But that's that, again, it'sthat again, that's what we talk
about, anxiety and it's what'syour motivation?
Yeah.
Are you, is your motivation thefear of failure?
So I'm doing this because I'mafraid that if I fail, this is
gonna be, or is my motivation,the will, the want to achieve my
goal.
And not, kids don't understandenough that you're gonna be on
(23:42):
two different pathways and oneis way more enjoyable than the
other.
When I'm motivated for, when I'mfocused on what I want rather
than what I want to avoid, yeah,I will enjoy sports so much
better.
Because my experience is more ofa positive experience.
'cause I'm always thinking abouthow am I gonna win?
How am I gonna achieve, how am Igoing to, and yes, it's a grind,
(24:05):
it's difficult, but when mymotivation is just focused on
not failing, not, it's justnegative, right?
Because your motivation is whatyou don't want to see happen
versus, so you're either chasingwhat you want to see happen or
running away from what you don'twant to see happen, right?
Running towards something is amuch more enjoyable than running
(24:27):
away from it.
And I, listen, I've talked to myteams about that and I think
that sometimes what's happeningwith the transfer portal?
Are you going in the transferportal'cause you're running away
from something, or are you goinginto the portal because you're
running towards something?
So when I give the example of,my student who decided to go in
at least she was running towardssomething.
She was running towards herdream.
Yeah.
If you go in it because, heycoach wants me to play defense
(24:50):
here and I'm not a defensiveguy.
Yeah.
Guess what?
There's no coach who's gonnaever say, don't worry about
defense over here like you, youcan't outrun it.
So I do think that makes a bigdifference in the experience
that you have through athletics.
Are you running towardssomething or are you running
away from something?
That's why I'm gonna keeppushing you to get back on the
sideline sooner rather than thatright there.
(25:12):
Thanks, coach.
I love that.
And when you need an assistant,you just holler and I'll come
running deal.
I'll follow you wherever you go.
You've given me so much timetoday.
Give parents a piece of advicewho've got a teenager going
through the recruiting journey.
W what's the one thing that youthink they need to be focusing
on?
(25:34):
I think it's hard to say onething, but if I was to say one
thing, it would be drown out thenoise.
Because every when your childhas a talent.
Everybody has an opinion on whatthey should do with that talent,
where they should bring it, whatthey should do, where they
(25:55):
should go, and it can be adistraction.
So people's motivation isobviously to help, but in the
end I think it becomes adistraction and I think that you
lose yourselves in the process.
Finding that balance of drowningout the noise and sticking to
(26:17):
what matters to you as a family.
And don't look to the right anddon't look to the left about,
this person did this, and my sonor daughter is better, so they
need to do equal or more.
It's not about that at all, butpeople easily make it about
that.
And if so, I think drown out thenoise.
Stay true to your family'svalues and.
(26:42):
Choose the school that reallyvalues your son or daughter and
sees them as an important partof that team.
Not in a year or two.
You're gonna develop into thestarting point or the back.
Like where does, where's theright fit?
(27:05):
And I think too many familiesjump at.
The first highest offer.
So for example, I am beingrecruited by mid-majors, but One
Power Five school jumped in, soI'm gonna go there.
'cause it's the higher school,you're probably a mid-major
person.
(27:25):
That's where most of yourrecruiting happens.
So you're probably a mid-major.
That's right.
So I just really think that alot of stuff is being distorted
and lost in all of this.
I do think at the end of theday, after four years, what you
remember is the relationshipsthat you built in those four
years as a student.
(27:46):
I still talk to my mentor.
Yeah.
It's 30 years later and I don'tknow where I'd be without her.
Yeah.
But that would be my biggestadvice is out the noise.
Do your research.
Choose the school that is theright fit.
And feels right for the familyand maintain your family values
through this process.
(28:08):
Would you change that advice ifI told you're talking to 16 and
17 year olds instead of parents,or would you come at a different
angle?
I think that those 16 and 17year olds have more voice, more
voices at them than the parentsdo because their peers are, and
everybody, and.
They also need to do theirresearch.
(28:31):
They have to ask questions, andthis generation asks less
questions in the process thanthey used to.
And they need to ask thequestions that are important to
them, not because, Hey, myfriend went on a visit and they
asked these questions, so thatsounds good.
So I'm gonna ask them.
You have to come up with a setof questions as a family that's
(28:53):
gonna allow you to decide thatthis is the right fit for my
student.
And I will also say, and I knowthat people are gonna disagree
with this, but you're asking me,so I'm gonna give my opinion, if
you're going into a school withthe notion that I'm gonna go
there with the plan to jump inthe portal after a year.
(29:18):
I don't like that plan at all.
I think, I don't think it's fairto the coaches who are
recruiting you, who genuinelybelieve in your child, and if
that's what you wanna do as afamily.
'cause that's what's importantto you, then at least tell that
to the coach.
Yeah.
Hey, like how do you feel about,I would ask that question.
How do you feel about studentswho just come to your school for
(29:38):
one year because they want to,'cause guess what?
There are some coaches will say,doesn't bother me at all.
I just wanna win.
And there are other coaches whowill say, I really want this to
be a four year a, a four yearrelationship.
I'd love to work with you forfour years.
You've gotta be transparent inthe questions that you're
asking, but you also have to betransparent if you have to
(30:01):
answer, when coaches ask youquestions, parents and student,
you have to be honest.
Because that's where theheadbutting happens in your
first freshman year.
Because coaches quickly realizeI thought you were a because you
told me that you were A, butyou're B and now I don't like
it, and now I'm giving youconsequences.
(30:22):
And yeah, but if you would'vejust told me,'cause hey, listen
I really wanted my kids to getinto the gym.
Get we have a gun.
It's over$10,000.
Use it, please.
That's right.
You could use it whenever youwant, but get on the gun.
And then you she's a gym ratcoach.
You'll have to kick her out.
Okay.
By the end of the year, I cancount how many times she shot on
the machine in one hand.
That's right.
That's a stickler for me.
(30:43):
So guess what?
I'm gonna be constantly on youabout that, and I can't imagine
that's gonna be fun for you.
Yeah, it's so I think thathonesty and transparency is
super important, not just forthe coaches, but for the
student, the athlete, and theparents as well.
I totally agree.
There's a great quote from TedLasso where he says, be curious,
not judgmental.
(31:04):
We, you gotta go into everysituation going, how could this
make my life better?
Yeah.
It may be hard, it may be a hardpath to that, but I see how this
can help me with some of thethings I don't have right now.
May I'm, I don't think I'm readyto be an adult.
Is this person in front of me?
Can they help me become thatadult and help me get over some
(31:27):
of these insecurities?
That's a really good pointthough, Matt, is I think that
you also, first of all, I dothink that as a family, once you
realize this is what you wannado and schools are starting to
show interest, I do think thatyou have to have conversations
as a family.
Agreed.
And I think one of theconversations to be had is what
do.
What do when it's all said anddone after four years, when we
(31:51):
look back, what do we hope wasaccomplished from those four
years?
Is it that I want my son ordaughter to, to be ready for the
real world or is it that,listen, the financial piece is
the most important piece to us.
We wanna make sure that we arenot in debt after this.
It's your journey.
It's your thing As a family, I'mnot here to judge you.
If that's where your values are,that's what you, that's what it
(32:13):
is.
But get on the same page withthat and then make sure that
you're being transparent aboutthat with the coaches who are
recruiting you.
'cause like I said, many timesin this.
This is just my opinion, butthere's a coach who has the
exact opposite opinion than me.
So you might not be the playerfor me, but that doesn't mean
that you're not the right playerfor anybody, right?
(32:35):
It's just you're not the rightfit for me, just as I am.
Not for you.
But there is going to be a coachout there who says, I don't care
that person doesn't talk as longas they defend and they do
things right.
Yeah.
So if you're honest about all ofthat, then you're, you are gonna
find the right coach for you andthe right school for you and the
right fit, and probably notwanna jump into the transfer
(32:55):
portal.
It's, and maybe I'm just too oldschool.
Maybe the game has passed me by,but I look at recruiting as a
marriage, those points you justmade.
If I'm getting married thinkingwell, I can always go get a
divorce attorney.
You've got one leg out the dooralready.
This isn't somebody you careabout and wanna spend the life
with, and if I'm gonna go aftera coach or a school and I wanna
(33:17):
play for them, I want to go init saying, I wanna be with you.
As long as I can be with you.
I'm committing to you because Isee something special that I
wanna be a part of every day.
As a coach, I'm saying that, andas a student athlete, I need to
say that I wanna be a part ofthat journey.
And that's why, for all thefamilies I, I talk to, I don't
(33:39):
take many honest clients becausethere's too often I don't feel
that, I don't feel like you'rein this for the right reasons.
I'm not the right coach for youif you don't want this to be a
great educational experience foryou.
Yeah.
And I think the other is what?
What kind of, because I thinkthis is important to discuss as
a family, but also discuss tothe coaches, what type of
(34:01):
relationship do you want withthat college coach?
That's right, because that haschanged as well over time.
In the past the student athleteslooked at us more as.
Mentors they would ask you foradvice about life advice, and I
think more and more it's becometransactional.
(34:21):
I hate to say that.
Yeah.
But if you are, but it's not foreverybody, right?
Like for me, again, I got intothis because I genuinely wanna
help students and hopefully tryto provide them with the
transformational experience.
And I know that's becomingharder and harder, but that's
who I am.
And I can't be something thatI'm not.
It's important to me to findstudents who are like, when I
(34:42):
come here, that's what'simportant to me is that I learn
and I grow as a human being, andI think that coach is gonna help
me do that.
If you are kinda like, I reallydon't care about having a
relationship with my coach.
I just want to play.
I'm not judging you, I'm justnot the coach for you.
Yeah.
But there is one for you.
There is someone who's also Hey,I just wanna win games and if
(35:04):
you can help me win games,you're gonna be on the court.
I know you could win achampionship at the D one level,
but I'm not sure.
You weren't born to be a D threecoach.
I, because I think all thethings you speak of, I think
that's still there, where it'sgotten and lost to D one and D
two, that love of the game andlove of the relationships and
kids that wanna play for theright reasons.
(35:26):
And, I'm still a believer that Dthree is hanging on to that, and
I hope they don't lose that.
I agree.
So I agree, coach, thank you somuch for your time.
Just an honor to talk to you anda great pleasure to call you a
friend and I wish we would'vetalked more these last 12 years,
but I wish you well and I'll becheering for you wherever you
go.
(35:46):
Thank you so much.
I really enjoyed it.
Thanks for the opportunity andlikewise, I have a ton of
respect for you.
So I enjoy the conversation verymuch.
Thank you so much.
And that's a wrap on part two ofmy conversation with Coach Bet
Naski her insight into NCAAdivision two recruiting.
Her commitment to equity inwomen's sports and her care for
the people behind the processare reminders that recruiting is
(36:10):
about far more than offers androsters.
It's about fit opportunity andlong-term growth.
And it doesn't really matterwhat division level you wanna
play at.
If today's episode help bringsome clarity to your recruiting
journey, please follow, rate andshare the podcast on whatever
platform you're listing on.
And don't forget, you can findsignificant recruiting the
(36:31):
playbook for prospective collegeathletes and the basketball
recruitsjournal@coachmattrogers.com
and@amazon.com.
Until next time, stay focused onwhat you can control.
Stay humble and keep chasingsignificance.
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