September 13, 2024 • 55 mins
Josh Collins is in his 13th season as the Head Coach of the Southwestern Oklahoma State University volleyball team, while also serving as an Assistant Athletic Director for Gameday Operations.
Collins – who became SWOSU Volleyball’s winningest coach during the 2016 season – enters the 2024 fall campaign with a career record of 183-163 after leading the Bulldogs to a winning record in each of the past six seasons. Most recently, the Dawgs went 19-9 (12-4 GAC) in the 2023 season and finished third place in the Great American Conference. He was named the Great American Conference Coach of the Year in 2018 and 2021 and was recognized at the OklahomaSports.Net Small College Coach of the Year in 2021.
Learn more about Josh Collins here: https://swosuathletics.com/sports/womens-volleyball/roster/coaches/josh-collins/506
Learn more and connect with Matt Rogers here: https://linktr.ee/coachmattrogers
Listen on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, iHeartRadio, and all your favorite podcast platforms.
Did you like what you heard and want more?
New Podcasts every week. Remember to subscribe and follow wherever you get your podcasts.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome back to the significantcoaching podcast and coach Matt
Rogers.
This week's guest is headvolleyball.
Coach Josh Collins fromSouthwestern, Oklahoma state or
Suazo as they affectionatelycall it.
He is another great coach who Iwish I would have had the great
fortune to play for when I wasyounger.
(00:21):
His passion for coaching and isgenuine and authentic approach
to teaching and mentoring got mepumped up to root for the
bulldogs volleyball program.
Josh is in his 13th season hashad volleyball coach of his Alma
mater.
Where he's led the bulldogs toseven winning seasons in the
last eight years and was namedthe great American conference
(00:43):
coach of the year in both 2018and 2021.
And was also named Oklahomasports.net, small college coach
of the year in 2018.
As a father of a high school andclub volleyball daughter.
I picked Josh's brain on theimportance of high school play
versus club play and what hesees as the value.
(01:05):
Of each as a coach and arecruiter, you gave some really
great answers.
I love his spirit and I'mconfident you'll leave our
conversation as a big of a fanof coach Collins.
As I now am.
Please make sure to hit thatsubscribe button on all our
platforms.
You find the significantcoaching podcasts like apple,
(01:26):
Spotify, Amazon, and I heartradio, where you can listen to
past and future episodes withall my great high school,
college and professional coachand athlete guests.
I also encourage you to checkout my book on college
recruiting.
My weekly blog, or you canschedule a free college
recruitment evaluation withme@coachmattrogers.com.
(01:48):
So without further ado, here'smy conversation with coach Josh
Collins.
Coach Collins, we were justtalking before we click record
that I was I was a collegebasketball coach for a long time
and you coach some basketballand volleyball.
I, October 15th, it was our datefor basketball coaches.
And for me, the seasons hasstarted to change.
(02:10):
It started to get a little bitcolder, in about the first week
of October, man, I started toshake a little bit cause I was
so excited, ready to get back onthe floor and be coaching.
Yeah.
It's that time of year for youas a volleyball coach, do you
have some of those senses thatkick in or there is a great deal
of excitement that will come assoon as everybody is here.
(02:32):
All of the travel plans are set.
I told my wife at lunch today, Ihave this tightness in my chest.
I think some of it isexcitement, but also some of it
is, anxiousness, just makingsure that we have all of our
ducks in a row.
Absolutely.
I know that feeling and I'm sureyou're just coming out of camp
season too.
(02:52):
Right.
Correct.
Yes, sir.
Where you haven't been able tobreathe and think.
And it was actually a prettyeasy camp season for us because
we play in a 4, 000 seat arenahere at Southwestern Oklahoma
state, and it got a brand newfloor this summer.
So we, didn't host any campsbecause we didn't know the
timeline.
And so we did all satellitecamps.
(03:12):
So that made things a little bitthe schedule a little bit
easier.
Obviously we missed that time tobe with different student
athletes and to show our brandof volleyball to other people.
But there's always next year.
Yeah.
And that's always hard too,because you want to show off
your gym to all these young kidsand show off your facilities.
So I'm sure there's sometoughness there too.
(03:32):
Yeah we really miss what we callour elite camp which is, the
camp where we bring in prospectsand really show off our campus
and show off our facilities andget to see those kids who are
still looking for a place toplay.
That's great.
Tell me about your league alittle bit.
I, it's, I talk to families allthe time and I don't think
(03:53):
there's a, really a greatperspective of how many great
conferences out there, how manygreat coaches are out there.
Tell me a little bit about yourprogram and within your league.
Cause I think it's amazing howmuch talent is there.
Yeah, so I've had I've beenblessed to be a part of this
league since its inception.
And I was actually a part of ourlast league, which still stands.
(04:14):
We just, we moved away fromthem.
The Lone Star Conference thetravel for us in Oklahoma and
the Lone Star Conference waspretty difficult.
I think that the Lone Star isstill dealing with some of that,
they have some really long roadtrips.
And then I just think that thedirections that we were moving
were a little bit different aswell, especially at that time.
Our university was not fitfinancially to be in the same
(04:36):
category as some of thoseschools in the Lone Star
Conference.
And many of those schools thatwe were in the Lone Star
Conference with have moved up toDivision one.
And in 2011 we formed aconference with some schools in
Arkansas who were also doing thesame thing in the Gulf South
conference.
And so we created the greatAmerican conference and it's
great parody.
(04:57):
There's six.
Oklahoma schools, there are sixArkansas schools.
Our longest road trip is abouteight hours.
And we only make that road tripevery other year because of the
way that we do the volleyballside of things.
Now the basketball schools theyplay everybody home and home.
But in volleyball, we only playOklahoma home and home.
(05:20):
And then we alternate every yearwith Arkansas.
For instance, this year we havethe Arkansas schools.
We have four of them coming tous and we're only going to two
of them.
Nice travel partners.
So when we travel, we play oneArkansas school on Thursday and
then the other Arkansas schoolon Friday.
And so it's just a one trip toArkansas.
We come back.
(05:40):
And Friday night, or do you comeback Saturday?
We come back Friday night.
We play at 4 0 PM on Friday.
Oh, that's not bad.
Yeah.
Not at all.
Not at all.
It's not a late arrival.
We have our Saturdays, which iskind of nice, which is
fantastic.
Nobody has their Saturdays involleyball.
Exactly.
And I'll go on record and say Ivoted against it and I hated the
idea.
And all the other coaches in ourleague were smarter than me
(06:02):
because after we did it oneyear, I asked all of our
players, I was afraid we'd misstoo much class time.
Yeah.
And all of our players thoughtit was very doable and they
really enjoyed the opportunityto catch up on Saturday and
Sunday in the classroom andtheir homework but also support
our football team on Saturday.
Absolutely.
That's it.
So that's, it really is smart.
Cause I think I would have beenlike you, I would have been
(06:23):
arguing.
Yeah, let's do it on Saturday.
Let's give them a day of anextra day of class.
Let's have a day between gamesjust so we can recover a little
bit.
There's so many things that itmakes sense now that I think
about it playing Thursdays andFridays.
Yeah we've really enjoyed it.
It's a 6 p.
m.
match on Thursday, 4 p.
m.
match on Saturday.
So there is a little bit ofturnaround time.
(06:45):
We've always played back toback.
So before we played Friday,Saturday and when we were in the
Lone Star Conference, that's oneof the things that we didn't
necessarily like.
We played Thursday, Saturday.
And some of the towns that we goto, that having that Friday off,
there's a lot of downtime andnot much to do.
Right.
And we found ourselves sittingin the hotel a lot.
You know, in tournament season,you always play back to back.
(07:05):
So it kind of gets us preparedfor the conference tournament
and NCAA tournament should wemake it.
And I really like our schedulewithin our conference.
And then just the parody top tobottom is, it's really, really
good.
And when we joined the Arkansasschools were pretty dominant.
I think Arkansas Tech or Hardingwon the first several years of
the conference.
(07:26):
We broke through in 2015Southern Nazarene after us.
Now Oklahoma Baptist is in themix and they've won the
conference championship severaltimes.
And so it just feels like everyschool within our league is
raising the bar.
And we need to because we playin one of, if not the toughest
region in the country.
So our region is made up of us,the Great American Conference
(07:49):
the MIAA, which is all of theKansas and Nebraska schools,
some schools in Missouri.
They're always very, very tough.
And then the Northern SunConference, which is Home of
Concordia St.
Paul, who's won nine of the last13 to 14 national championships.
Minnesota, Duluth, SouthwestMinnesota state.
So our region is so tough that,in the last couple of years,
(08:10):
like we had the number 12 teamin the nation in our conference
and they didn't make theregional.
Right?
Yeah.
My niece is the head volleyballcoach at UW Platteville.
It's the same thing up therewith D three.
She's one back to back 2020 winsin, 20 and seven back to back
years that haven't made thetime.
That's yeah, it's crazy.
(08:31):
Just crazy.
Really good volleyball in thecentral part of the United
States.
There is.
Usually on the D1 side at thepower five level, you see it out
on the coast or, obviously theuniversity of Texas has been
very dominant, but, for somereason, right in the middle of
the United States and divisiontwo, it's, it's very, very good
volleyball.
Well, I, I do a lot ofconsulting with college athletic
(08:51):
directors and presidents.
And one of the things we alwaystalk about is, is conference
versus non conferencescheduling.
So I haven't talked about thisin a podcast, and I think this
is really a big thing that Idon't think families understand
what you're doing a year,sometimes.
18 months in advance on yourschedule.
Talk a little bit about how yougo about building your schedule.
(09:14):
Cause we talked about travel.
We talked about budget.
What does that look like for youa year in advance?
You know, that's something thatwe've really harped on within
our conference, because we aretrying to raise our level to the
two premier conferences in thecountry and the M I double a and
the Northern sun, and you got totake a very strategic path to
get there.
(09:34):
And the strength of schedule isso important when it comes down
to regional ranking, anddeciding if you make that
national tournament or not.
And so you have to be very smartbecause if you schedule the top
teams in the country and you go500, you're not going to make
it.
But if you schedule, the mid tolower level teams in the country
(09:56):
and you go, you win all of yourmatches, you're not going to
make it.
And so you have to win, You haveto schedule the best teams that
you can and still win themajority of your games in order
to get into that regionaltournament.
And we're obviously veryselective about what tournaments
we go to.
We evaluate the type of teamthat we have.
This year we return nine and wefeel like we have a really good
(10:17):
chance to be good this year.
So we wanted to beef up ourschedule a little bit and really
test us early.
And so we're playing several,uh, Tournament teams from 2023
in our preseason tournaments togive us that chance to get that
at large at bid.
So I love that Talk a little bitabout when you're obviously
you're thinking about thatstrength of schedule and making
the nationals and getting thatopen bid If you don't win the
(10:39):
league, you don't win your yourtournament Talk a little bit
about how your thoughts work interms of getting your schedule
right to make the nationalsversus Looking at your team,
like you said, you got ninereturners this year and go,
where do we need confidence?
Do we need some wins?
Do we need some less competitivegames where we can kind of
(11:01):
figure out who we are?
Is that a part of your process?
Oh, absolutely.
And some of that you talkedabout, it's 18 months ahead.
It's, it's even two years aheadbecause last year, we felt like
we were making, some strides.
And so we scheduled a West TexasA& M who had won the national
championship, and we were luckyenough to get the, to host them
at our place.
(11:21):
And, unfortunately we didn't winthat match.
we got beaten in a very closefive.
It was, uh, I think it was 11,11 or 12, 12 in the fifth set.
and we had a, an incredibleenvironment.
Our, our band brought all 97members of the band.
Kendra, who's a good friend ofmine.
Now she's, you know, she's movedon.
(11:42):
Um, but, uh, you know, when shecalled her first time out, I
think we were up 16, 11, thefirst set.
And I looked at our band andevery trumpet was pointed at her
face in her time.
Now I thought this might be theend of this relationship.
What an atmosphere.
It was great.
And I think we had, you know,over a thousand people in
attendance and it was a greatatmosphere, a lot of fun, but,
(12:04):
just scheduling them andcompeting against them, even
though we lost, I think our teamcame out and said, we're really
close.
We're really close.
And I think that kind of offeredsome drive in the spring and
then offered some drive, in thesummer to be ready for this fall
schedule and we've gone out andagain, we've scheduled some
perennial powerhouses in ourpreseason, tournaments and, uh,
(12:25):
so I hope that we've gained someconfidence.
Just from last year's schedule.
But then we have some teamsthat, you know, we're going to
have to go out and compete andwe're going to have to play
well, but if we get wins againstthem, it's going to give us that
confidence that we need to go upagainst some of those, those
bigger programs who, have had alonger lasting, sense of, just
success.
Then, we're a fairly youngprogram.
(12:46):
We started in 2005.
When we're playing West Texas A&M, they've won multiple national
championships before our programeven started.
And so we're trying to build tothat level.
That's great.
When you're a head coach,there's no such thing as a moral
victory, but when you play ateam like that, you take them to
five sets and your kids arefighting their tails off and
(13:07):
going, wow, we're, we're withthis, we're with the best team
in the country and we can beatthem, what that does for the
rest of your season can beamazing.
It really is.
and just like you said, there'sno moral victory.
So for me as a coach, the onlythings I think about from that
match are like, if we would haveonly done this, if we would have
just made this adjustment,right, hindsight's 2020, but
(13:31):
again, I think for our players,there are moral victories, you
know, and, and.
We have a lot of Amarillo areakids and that's where WT is
located.
And for them, they've alwayslooked at WT, and some of them
had chances to go there andchose to come to us.
And some of them wanted to gothere and didn't have that
opportunity.
And, and I think now thatthey're here at Southwestern,
they're very grateful that they,had the opportunity here, but
(13:53):
all of a sudden they're like,okay.
We're there.
Like we are there now, we justgot to finish this thing.
And so, I'm very excited to see,you know, how that translate to
this season.
And, I think that our kids arevery confident and, we also are
confident, but we're.
we're aware that our schedule istough, not only in the
(14:13):
preseason, but our conference isjust getting better and better
every year.
And you look around at thesigning articles and what each
program has brought in.
And so we already have asteriskson our on our schedule of, we
know we have to bring it in thismatch.
That's great.
Well, coach, you're talking to aclub volleyball dad.
(14:33):
I don't know if I told you thatwhen we talked last week, I did
not know that.
So I'm in every fricking way.
Are you about to ask me for aloan?
No, God, I should.
Yes.
Yeah.
That should be where I take thisand every, every club parent,
the country's gonna agree withme.
I am amazed, I coachedbasketball a long time, so I was
(14:55):
in a lot of gyms.
I was in a lot of terms.
I am amazed when we go toAtlanta.
And there's 150 courts in afacility.
We go to Dallas, there's 145courts.
We go to, you know, how do youattack club volleyball as a
recruiter?
You know, this will be differentthan anybody you talk to
(15:16):
probably because we are veryunorthodoxed.
I'm also our assistant athleticdirector for game day
operations.
So for much of club season, I amannouncing basketball games or
announcing baseball games ormaking sure the run of show is
going good.
Right.
You know, at our differentsporting events.
And so I don't have thatfreedom, to get out and go to
(15:36):
all the club tournaments.
And, my assistant coach isactually a volunteer assistant
and she's also our assistantcompliance director.
So she's, she's in the same boatas me.
She doesn't get to get out toall the club tournaments.
So we've got to relied on ourcontacts.
there are different scoutingagent or recruiting agencies,
such as your own out there, thatwe rely on.
And really just word of mouth.
(15:57):
And, it's crazy how those thingswork and it's getting easier and
easier.
We have a lot of players who areout there coaching now.
and, Thankfully, I think thatour university and our program
has a really good name.
And so we've been able to getinto some hot beds of volleyball
and we keep pulling from thosehot beds and it's making our
program better and better.
But when we do have thatopportunity, uh, you know, this
(16:18):
year we went to Lone Star, um,and a lot of times for us, it's
more following up with kids thatwe've already started the
recruiting process with, if yougo in there with a blank slate.
You are going to waste a lot oftime and your knees are going to
hurt and your back's going tohurt and you're not going to get
very far.
But I find that most of the timein division two, the coaches who
(16:40):
were out recruiting at thosethings, they've already targeted
players through word of mouth,through agencies, however it may
be.
And they're getting out to watchthose kids in action.
Kids reaching out to youdirectly ahead of time.
Yeah, that's correct.
Yeah.
Well, thank you.
I just sold 20, 20 more booksbecause of that coach.
That's a centerpiece of my bookthat coaches, coaches are not
(17:01):
going to these tournaments witha blank sheet of paper.
It would be a complete waste ofyour time to hope that you would
find kids there in that type offacility.
You have to know who's thereahead of time.
Now you might find a half dozenkids you like while you're
there.
But you're going there so youdon't have to go to 18 different
towns.
You can see 18 kids in oneplace.
(17:21):
Am I wrong?
Absolutely.
Yeah, that's absolutely correct.
That's fantastic.
All right.
I want to, I'm going to diveinto club volleyball a little
bit.
Cause I really want to hear yourthoughts on it.
cause you just said we, werecruit through our resources.
We don't, we can't get to every.
Club tournament.
We can't get to every nationalevent.
(17:43):
Talk to me as a parent.
How important is it that my kidplays club if I want her to play
division three, any ID to D oneis it essential that she gets
that level of experience and whyor why not?
There are a lot of factors thatcome into that.
it probably depends on the levelof your, your child's athletic
(18:08):
ability.
There, there are some freakathletes out there for lack of a
better word that it might notmatter that much, it also
depends on the level of the highschool.
That they play within, we, wehave a recruit coming in 2025
who's won three statechampionships and, her teammates
are all going power five, um,and her high school team is much
(18:30):
better than her club team.
That is very rare, especiallywhere we are in Oklahoma, so I
don't know that that happens awhole lot, but I don't know that
she necessarily absolutelyneeded that club experience to
get exposure, and to get thathigh level of play.
She was getting that experienceat the high school.
I am a big proponent of multisport athletes.
(18:52):
I went to a very tiny school.
I I'm a very tiny person.
So, and not a great athlete.
I can say that now, but, I hadthe opportunity to play every
sport that we offered in mylittle town.
And I think that made me a wellrounded athlete, but more than
that, a well rounded person.
And so we actually have severalkids on our roster who play
(19:14):
multiple sports.
So I like that opportunity.
I like that.
Toolbox that they gain whiledoing that.
But unfortunately that'sbecoming, more and more rare.
And there's a lot of pressurefor kids to play year out.
And, I don't even know that wecan make the decision right now
of if that's a positive or not.
(19:36):
And I know one coach inparticular that comes to mind,
who's a good friend of mine,who's a fellow division two
coach, um, has stoppedrecruiting in his state and is
coming into our state to recruitbecause there's less kids who
play, you know, 11 months out ofthe year.
And he's found that when he getsthose kids who play 11 months
out of the year, they're alreadyburned out, and not only that,
but they have these naggingoveruse injuries that, his
(20:00):
program then has torehabilitate, for their first
year in their program.
And so.
You know, I would love to tellyou that I'm all about, no, you
don't have to play clubvolleyball.
you just have to do the workthat, you would get from club
volleyball, but some of that isalso, protecting your mentality
and protecting, just the fatigueof your body.
but that is a very, very trickyequation.
(20:25):
I talked to kids about this, ifyou're a baseball pitcher and
you're doing this 12 months outof the year, if you're a hitter,
if you're an outside, you're apin hitter and this is all
you're doing.
This is this shoulder iseventually lots of wear and
tear.
It's going to tear and it's notgoing to be what you want it to
be.
So I love that mentality.
I preach multi sport and Ireally in tell me if I'm wrong,
(20:48):
coach, I don't think it's thecollege coaches driving this.
I have, I have never heard acollege coach say, Matt, I got
it.
I'm only recruiting volleyballplayers.
If they play 11 months out ofthe year, I've never heard that
from a college coach.
Have you?
No, absolutely not.
It's the almighty dollar.
Yeah, that's, that's what isdriving all sports now.
(21:08):
And as a basketball coach, youknow that, you know, the money
involved in, uh, you know, theoutside of school aspect of
basketball is it takesbasketball in some good
directions, but it also takes itin some bad directions.
And I think the same can be saidabout, the club.
Just the mindset.
I think that there is a littlebit of overuse, pushing of the
(21:29):
athlete that wouldn't be thereif it was just a volunteer,
nonprofit organization.
You know, um, I think thepushing the student athlete
towards the highest possiblelevel that they can get to,
whether or not it's a good fit,Is a product of the club, world.
I think that they need thosedivision one power five signees
(21:53):
so that they can go get thatnext group of parents who is
willing to pay, tens ofthousands of dollars a year for
their kid to play for thatprogram.
And so it makes sense.
I don't fault them.
I understand where that mindsetis coming from, but I don't know
that it's always taking oursport in the positive direction.
Well, I'm, I'm in the heart ofit.
(22:13):
You know, my, my daughter's,this is her fifth club in five
years.
And it's not we her dream whenshe started club at 11 was I
want to be at the same club.
I want to be at the same girlsevery year.
And the club disbands the teamevery year and brings in 11 new
kids.
And we can't figure it outbecause how do you grow with
(22:37):
your teammates?
How do you learn where to putthat ball for your, for your
middle hitter?
How do you learn how to makethat pass to your, to your
setter where there's, there'scontinuity there if you never
play with the same kids allyear.
So that's, that's the part ofclub that drives me crazy.
Matt, I would say the moreimportant part is how do you
form a family?
(22:57):
You, you got it.
You're right.
I think that, I think thatwe've, we've lost perspective on
that.
And, and you know, what is thepercentage of those 11 year old
girls who start their clubcareer, who are going to go make
money playing the sport ofvolleyball?
It's next to nil.
Um, so we, we forgotten that thepurpose of sports is to build
(23:20):
character.
The purpose of sports is to formlifelong.
Relationships that literallybecome family.
I know it's not blood, but it,many of our girls are closer to
their teammates than they are totheir brothers and sisters.
And not that they're not closeto their brothers and sisters.
It's just a different bond.
And you know, and that, that.
(23:42):
Club or, AAU or whatever youwant to call it.
Mentality is now at the collegelevel as well with, the transfer
portal.
And again, I'm not saying thatthe transfer portal doesn't have
positives to it.
It absolutely does.
But the mindset of the grass isalways greener is tearing the
(24:02):
best aspects of sports away fromthese kids.
I agree.
My best friend that was myshooting guard in college.
We still talk every other week.
I'm, I'm his God, son of hisyoungest son, you know, and I
don't think about our playingdays a whole lot, but I sure do
(24:23):
think about the fun we had andhow much we love each other and
we call each other brother andI, that was what was great about
college sports for me, right.
And I have no idea.
Whether you're your college teamwas highly successful or below
500, but it doesn't matterbecause those stories come out
of both sides of the aislethere, kids who are a part of
(24:47):
teams that lost all four yearsin their career, though, they
may have been miserable attimes.
They form those bonds.
If they, if they stick it out,they form those bonds.
Uh, just the same as, as youknow, players who win national
championships.
Yeah, it's such a great pointand I'm glad, I'm glad you've
stressed it because I want everykid to have that experience.
(25:07):
I want every kid to feel thatthey've, they've got that
family, they've got that bond.
We overuse the word culture somuch in sports, but really when
your culture is good.
Your kids just can't wait to bewith you.
Can't wait to be with eachother.
You know, the winning is great,but they just can't wait to
(25:28):
share.
Right.
I agree.
And that to me, that is morerewarding than, than wins.
Um, yeah, you know, I've hadteams that have been highly
successful that I.
I enjoyed my time with them lessthan I did with the kids who
overachieved by being threegames below 500.
And, it's all about thatexperience and all about doing
(25:50):
life every day with a group ofpeople who were trying to
establish that like mindednessand get all of their arrows
pointed in the same direction toachieve as high, as they can
with that group.
That's great.
I, you and I had a greatconversation last week and I
want to, I want to bring some ofthat back up cause I just love
(26:10):
your approach to team building,building your roster.
Um, you don't pigeonholeyourself.
Talk a little bit about thatsmaller hitter.
You've got your pit hitter thatyou've got and talk, talk about
her size and what she's able todo.
How good I am at recruiting.
(26:32):
Yes.
Let's hit that right on thehead.
I got contacted by a player whoplayed in our league.
She didn't play for me and nowshe's coaching club, coaching
high school as well, and shesaid, you got to check this kid
out and Lacey will be a fifthyear senior for us.
So this was, five years ago.
And so we brought Lacey in.
Um, I should have knownimmediately that Lacey was a
trooper because the only time wecould play with her was at six
(26:55):
o'clock in the morning on therecruiting visit.
So she comes in at 6 a.
m.
and just balls out against us,but she's 5'6 and my other
outsides were at least five, 10,I think on that roster, we had a
six, one at outside.
So bigger kids, most of theoutsides in our league are in
between five, six and six, oneor five, 10 and six, one, excuse
(27:16):
me.
And so, Lacey plays with us.
At that point, we didn't have awhole lot of scholarship to
offer.
Obviously division two is alittle bit different than
division one.
We give a lot of partialscholarships out.
And so in our conversationafter, you know, I always tell
them things they did good thingsthat I think that they could
improve on and where they wouldfit.
And I just told her, Lacey, youcan absolutely play for us.
(27:37):
There's no question.
You're probably going to be aback row player.
We'll, we'll feed you a lot ofback row attack balls.
But.
If I'm just being completelyhonest with you, we have a very
small amount of scholarship tooffer.
I think you're worth more thanthat scholarship.
And your goal is to hit frontrow.
I don't think you'll do thathere.
Go somewhere else, you know, go,go somewhere else.
(27:58):
And so she left discouraged thatday.
I'm sure.
Um, I get a call a month laterand she's like, coach, I don't
want to go anywhere else.
I want to go there and I'm goingto prove you wrong.
And I was like, Lacey, this isall the money we have.
And she said, I'll make it work.
She's let us in kills all fouryears.
That's amazing.
One of the best outsides in our,in our league, five foot six at
(28:21):
the D two level in your leagueled you, led you to team and
kills and every year, everyyear, you know, and, and she
just continues to polish hergame when she came to us, she
could hit with power and she hada really nasty roll shot.
And so we just worked with herevery year and kind of
challenged her and now she cantool, now she can open hand tip,
(28:44):
she can hit thumb down, she canhit line, all, all of those
different aspects.
And so she, she's just builtherself.
She's a workhorse and, and shedoes, you know, she's one of
those kids.
I said, you have to evaluatetheir amount of athleticism
while she is a freak athlete.
She's.
Just a solid ball of muscle andjumps out of the gym.
But, um, yeah, that's how goodof a recruiter I am.
(29:05):
I told the kid who's let us inand kills every year for the
last four years.
Sorry.
You're not good enough.
If you're, if you've been acollege coach for just a little
bit, you don't have a story likethat.
Something's not right.
Yeah.
I love it.
Fortunately, I have too manystories like that.
I do.
I do too.
I, I remember when I was, when Iwas just recruit being a college
(29:27):
recruiter, I had a, I'll tellyou a quick story.
I had a soccer coach.
I think it was division two orsmall division one reach out to
me and said, Matt, we just gotour butts kicked by these
giants.
He goes, I'm tired of looking atsoccer recruits that are, that
are teeny tiny.
(29:48):
I only want you sending me sixfoot.
players.
This is a men's to see six footsoccer pl it.
Well, I go coach, no sure thatwhat you need, Same coach calls
(30:09):
me back and he goes, Matt, we'vegot some problems.
I go, coach, haven't we beensending you the six, the six
footers?
He goes, yeah, yeah, you guyshave been great.
Everything I asked for, but wejust got our tails run off the
field by a bunch of midgets,five, six kids left foot, right
foot.
We couldn't keep up with them.
So it goes, everything I toldyou two weeks ago.
(30:31):
He goes, throw it in thegarbage, forget it.
If that's not the epitome ofcollege recruiting, that is it.
All right.
So I love your approach thatyou're so open minded and how
you want to build your programthat you want great kids talk a
little bit about what you'relooking for in terms of their
(30:55):
attitude, their character, whatjumps out at you when you're
talking to a kid and you watchthem play.
Well, as I told you, we don'tspend a lot of time off campus
recruiting.
So a lot of times we're watchingthrough film or we're, talking
to contacts.
and that's the first thing Iask, what kind of family dynamic
do they come from?
(31:15):
And it doesn't necessarily meanthat they have to come from,
you're, you're perfect, youknow, picturesque.
Family, but it means that theyhave adapted and, people gain
character traits from whatevertype of family they come from.
So I want to hear what that is,and some kids have a ton of grit
because they've been through alot.
(31:36):
Some kids are very appreciativebecause they didn't have a lot
and now they have thisopportunity.
Other kids have had the bestopportunities in the world, but
are still grounded, you know, soI want to hear those things.
I want to hear about thoseattributes.
I want to hear about theircharacter first and foremost.
Most of the kids that, that weget contacted about, our
contacts know enough about us,to know that they're talented
(31:57):
enough to play for you.
Now, what do you think?
And so, usually we see the kidswho can play for us.
Absolutely.
But I want to know deeper thanthat.
And so I'm asking thosequestions and I'm asking, you
know, how do they, how do theyreact when they're not playing?
How do they react when, Hey,yeah, you're the starter, but
you are not hitting well rightnow.
So you're going to get pulled.
(32:18):
Are they over on the sidelinepouting?
Is their body language bad?
Are they over there cheering onthe person who just replaced
them?
Because that's what family is.
You don't have to like it.
I don't want you to like it.
I want you to be a competitor.
Yeah.
And I want you to find a way toget back out there on the court
and pouting on the sideline isnot it encouraging your teammate
and making the wind moreimportant at that point.
(32:39):
And more than that, holding thatculture together, that we're all
in this together and whoevergets it done, that's what we
want it to be.
And so, I will find my way backon the court and practice.
Right.
But right now it's my job to bea good teammate.
So I want to hear if that's thecase.
I want to hear, how are theygoing to react when, you know,
we have to work a basketballgame here?
Cause it's life in the deuce,baby.
(33:00):
Like we're going to do a littlebit of everything.
So you're going to be cleaningup after a basketball game.
You're going to be fundraising.
You're going to be doingcommunity service events.
Are you going to be, out therebeing an energy vampire, or are
you going to be out there?
Excited for the opportunity toserve the community that serves
you so much.
And, so I'm finding out from mycontacts, is this a kid that we
(33:21):
want to recruit?
Because they're going to havethese intangibles.
Can they buy into somethingbigger than themselves?
Yeah.
If not, they're not gonna behappy here.
Can they roll up their sleeves?
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And you know, we were luckyenough a couple of years ago to
get a kid who transferred to usfrom Tulane.
She touched 7.
(33:42):
I mean, she was amazing.
She's playing professionallynow.
She's just signed her thirdprofessional contract, played in
France last year, just outsideof Paris.
This next year she's going toThailand.
So obviously an incredibleathlete.
Um, very, very good middleblocker.
But she got pulled in her firsttournament and when she came on
her visit, I told her flat out.
(34:03):
You've had a lot of really goodexperience.
She played four years at Tulane.
She played, she has stats andwins against Ohio state against
LSU.
Like obviously the level's goingto be a little bit different,
but you know, division twovolleyball is still good.
And if you're not performing,you're not going to be out
there.
And so.
we had that conversation and Iwas really upfront with her and
I didn't try to sugarcoatanything with her.
(34:24):
And sure enough, in our firsttournament, she got roofed by
the setter on a joust and shecame over there and sat with me
and she didn't like it, but shedidn't get root by a setter
again the rest of the season,you know, and she reacted in a
very positive way.
She was a great teammate.
She cheered on the girl who wentin for, and those are the kids
that we're looking for.
And that kid in particular hadevery opportunity to have a ton
(34:45):
of ego and act like she, was themost elite in the gym, but she
didn't.
And those are the players thatwe're looking for.
So, our next stage in theprocess for us, typically, we
spend a lot of our money onofficial visits.
And we'll fly kids in from allover the country because,
Weatherford is a special place.
It's very remote.
We're about an hour to theoklahoma city metro and it's a
(35:07):
small town of about 13 000people it's very southern, you
know, it's uh, very slow pacedEverybody talks with the draw,
And so it's very unique now.
I think it's a very specialplace And so if we get kids on a
visit Nine times out of 10,they're going to see that and
we're going to get them.
And so it's just an opportunityfor me to spend, one, two,
(35:29):
sometimes even more days, withthe recruit.
And I should be careful.
I'll say that not more than 48hours.
But, uh, spend that time withthe recruit and, make sure they
get a feel for who I am, and Iget a feel for who they are.
And there's been times where webrought kids that we thought
were really, really good on thecourt, onto our campus.
And we've known within the first15 minutes that they were not a
(35:51):
fit for us.
Talk, talk a little bit aboutthat.
What are those red flags thatpop up on a visit or when you do
happen to be out and about at ahigh school and you're talking
to a kid, are there certainthings that just rub you the
wrong way real quickly?
Negativity is my Kryptonite.
(36:12):
I do not deal well with it onthe court.
I do not deal well with it inthe locker room.
And so on that visit, if there'sa ton of negative comments,
whether it be about, Our,community or our facilities or
our campus, it tends to be lessof that and more negative
comments directed at who they'rewith, negative comments to their
mom or dad or, just a sense ofentitlement or, just a sense
(36:35):
that the world revolves aroundthem.
Those things are immediate redflags for me.
If we go into a place and, theydon't like the way that somebody
approached them and, and I cansee that interaction.
It was clearly not meant thatway.
If they don't like that, that'sa red flag for me.
And if you're going to find away to be a victim, You have a
(36:57):
lot of chances to do that to dothat as an athlete, whether
you're a six rotation starter,then you're going to be
complaining about the way youwere statted, or you're going to
be complaining about the way youwere set, or you're going to be
complaining about the pass thatyou received.
those things do not just stay inone portion of your life, they
translate.
So if your negative comments arecoming towards your parents
(37:19):
because they didn't park the carin the right place or they
didn't grab your water out ofthe car.
Then those are going totranslate to my center when she
sets the ball to you and I, wedon't have time for that.
That's going to break ourculture down.
And we're all about family.
Now obviously there's timeswithin a team to have those
positive conversations, andwe're always open to giving each
other feedback, but it can't befrom a victim mindset.
(37:40):
So those are big things that welook for, just to see, Hey,
that's a major red flag.
But coach, I'm 6'3 and I playedfor the National Championship
Club team.
I mean, is it bad or is it good?
You'll be somebody else'sheadache.
I don't care.
Thank you.
We had, we were looking for aJUCO outside one year.
(38:01):
This was several years back.
And we had a two time JUCO AllAmerican on our campus who was
very, very good.
And I made my decision in herfirst interaction on campus.
Yeah.
Yeah, and we passed on her andshe was shocked, but our culture
is more important than one thanone person.
(38:21):
And I got the sense that shewouldn't be able to buy into the
team mentality.
And if you can't do that at ouruniversity, then you're not
going to, you're not going to behappy here.
And that's the main thing.
If you're not happy, then thepeople that you rub shoulders
with are not going to be happyeither.
So we want kids who can come inand buy into a team culture, who
(38:42):
are willing to roll up theirsleeves, who can take off their
cool.
my kids hear that all the time.
If you're too cool to go read tosome elementary kids, you're too
cool for our program.
Go somewhere where you can becool.
Yeah.
Same for me.
It was same with parents.
I would go to gyms and I wouldsit, I wouldn't wear my school
colors.
I would just go to the game andI'd sit up in the bleachers and
(39:03):
I'd kind of figure out who theparents were, the kids I was
looking at.
If I heard any negativity abouttheir high school coach, any
negativity about, you know,other kids or anything like
that, that would be enough forme.
I don't know how that is foryou, but the parent negativity
was just as bad for me.
(39:25):
And I talked about some of thenegatives about club.
I'll talk about some positives.
Please do.
Yeah.
And services like, like youoffer.
My inbox is inundated with kidswho want to play.
So I don't have to hang my haton a kid and take a chance on a
kid whose parents are badmouthing the high school coach
up in the stands or bad mouthingthe club coach up in the stands.
(39:48):
And I don't have to take achance on a kid who is demanding
a blue Gatorade instead of ayellow Gatorade that their mom
just brought them.
Go back and get me a blueGatorade.
You know, I don't, I can markyou off very quickly.
Can you imagine you were a smalltown kid like I was, I can't
even imagine doing that to myfolks.
(40:09):
I would have not clearedconcussion protocol for the next
match.
I was going to say it withoutsaying it.
My dad would have knocked meout.
Yeah, my dad would have, my dadwould have come out of his chair
in about a second to let me knowthat doesn't ever happen.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
The world has changed a littlebit.
(40:29):
Let's get out of the negativeand get back into the positive
for you.
Talk about where your joy ofcoaching comes from.
And, we talked about how theseason and the tightness of the
chest, you can feel it coming,but where does your joy of
coaching come from?
Obviously I love to compete.
I love, the feeling of, youknow, I was kind of late to
(40:53):
volleyball.
As you mentioned, I coachedbasketball, so I really didn't
get introduced fully intovolleyball until my senior year
of college.
And at that time, our coachhere, coach Bo Palasoddy, Dr.
Palasoddy now.
It was our coach and I was hisstudent assistant and he just
took me on.
Just out of the goodness of hisheart, I think, so I was with
(41:13):
him and I called my dad.
My dad's a very good basketballcoach, coached in the state of
Texas forever.
Now he's retired in Texas andcoaches in Oklahoma.
And I called him and I was like,dad, coach Bo's a great guy.
Like he is a good, good man, buthe is a terrible coach.
Our best player will get likefour kills in a row and then he
just pulls her out of the game.
(41:34):
And then I learned later on thatshe was a middle and she was
rotating back row.
So like that's, that's theamount of volleyball that I knew
back in 2005.
So I'm relatively new to thegame, right?
So I'm not necessarily outexecuting people with X's and
O's.
Like we have coaches in ourconference who, played power
(41:55):
five and I've been doing it for30 years.
So My joy comes when I outworkthem.
And, when, I know that ourscouting report helped our teams
be successful, helped our girlsbe successful.
So that's a great sense of joy.
We sing our fight song, afterevery win.
And it's a passionate thing.
And it's something that, ourteam has helped revive here at
(42:16):
our university.
We didn't have that fight songin place when I got here and.
Our team and some other peopleon campus kind of revived it.
And now it's very much part ofour culture.
And so when we go in that lockerroom and our girls are screaming
every word, just excited aboutthe way that we just got,
that's, A great deal ofsatisfaction, but I think bigger
(42:36):
than that, it's thoseinteractions that I have with
players who gave their heart andsouls to our program for 2345
years.
And then I talked to them, whenthey have their first child or I
talked to them, at theirwedding, and one of my biggest
mentors in this game, ChrisHerron, who's at the university
of Washburn or Washburnuniversity.
I don't know which one it is.
(42:57):
But, you know, he's, his recordis just outstanding.
He's been to the tournament,more years than I've been alive.
He's got so many all Americans.
And one time I heard him speakat ABCA and they asked him, how
do you define success after sucha successful career?
And he said, he stopped and hepaused for a second.
And then he said, I gauge mysuccess by how many wedding
(43:20):
invitations I get each summer.
And that spoke.
volumes to me because I, I dothink that was something that I
held dear before I heard Chrissay that.
But when I heard him say thatone of the premier coaches in
division two volleyball, I knewI can continue on the path that
I'm on and I can value people.
(43:41):
Overproduction and, so manyplayers we've had come into our
program that we missed on, youknow, players that weren't quite
as good as we thought they weregoing to be, or players that we
recruited over, and they didn'tget the playing time that they
thought they were getting.
And honestly, they didn't getthe playing time that we thought
that they were going to getduring the recruiting process,
but we treated them like humansduring their career.
(44:04):
And we had tough conversationsand we had to give our side as
to why they were recruiting.
And they had to give their sideto, why they should be playing.
And, it wasn't always rainbowsand butterflies, but there was
always love and there wasalways, Hey, how are things back
home?
Hey, how are your classes going?
Are you, are you homesick atall?
Like what's going on?
(44:24):
Just developing thatrelationship and they stick it
out.
And parts of their journey arethe hardest parts that they've
experienced up until that point.
Parts of their journey are alsosome of the most satisfactory,
most rewarding, uh, and biggestcharacter building moments of
their life.
And so then you get to talk tothem four or five years down the
line, and now they're coaching,you know, six, a team in Texas,
(44:48):
you know, and, and they still.
Love me.
They love our program and gosh,I love them.
I'm so proud of where they, theheights that they've taken
themselves to.
And I think that that isprobably the most important
thing about sports.
It's definitely the mostimportant thing about our
program here at SouthwesternOklahoma state.
And it's the reason I coach.
(45:09):
Shows, you know, I asked you tosend me a good picture of you
last week and the picture of youand I told you this, it just,
your spirit was in this stillpicture, your energy and your
love for the game and your joy.
You could just tell it was inyour face and that just that
still picture.
So, and now getting to spendquality time with you today,
it's obvious that.
(45:30):
It's no joke.
You love the game.
You love your kids.
You love the experience, andthere's nothing but pure joy
there, which is the reason I dowhat I do.
I'll be honest.
I think that some of thosequalities were instilled in me
by my parents, but our communityhas instilled that and you know,
ratified it and made it strongerand just, this community that
(45:54):
we're in Weatherford and ourcampus.
That's the way we operate.
And I always tell recruits, ifyou invest a little bit.
In this program, in thiscommunity, in this university,
you'll get tenfold back and I'ma product of that.
And so now it's a pleasure tooffer that to other student
athletes.
Fantastic coach.
You've given me a lot of timetoday.
(46:15):
I've got one question.
I ask all college coachesbefore, before I let you get
onto your busy schedule, butgive a piece of advice.
And it could be advice that wasgiven to you, but give a piece
of advice that you think that16, 17 year old that's coming up
through the ranks and wants toplay college volleyball.
What advice would you give them?
(46:35):
It might be multiple parts here,but the first thing I would do
is really get a true evaluationof where you stand.
Know where you fit, and know if,you know, Hey, I'm good enough
that I could, I could go to apower five and maybe make a
difference in my senior year, ormaybe you're a kid who can go to
(46:56):
a power five and make adifference immediately, or maybe
you're a kid who I'm going tohave to fight in You know, at
the lowest levels of N.
A.
I.
Of, N.
C.
C.
A.
A.
Or whatever that level may be,but know where you fit, and try
to get a gauge of where you fitat all levels.
There's great schools in everysingle realm of college
(47:20):
athletics.
The division doesn't matter.
The next thing I would say is,decide what role you want to
have.
Some kids have the option ofbeing a difference maker at the
highest levels.
Some kids, you might have topick a level a little bit lower
than the highest level to bethat difference maker.
If you want to be a differencemaker will then find where you
can be a difference maker.
(47:40):
And that may mean playing yourfreshman year.
If that's the case, ask thepeople who know what level could
I play My first day, uh, myfirst game, in my college
career.
Once you find that out, thenstart identifying those
programs.
Start identifying schools inthat talent level.
And do be absolutely relentless,because I'm a division two coach
(48:06):
and I have thousands uponthousands of emails sent to me.
There's so many, I don't havetime to go through all of them.
And it stinks.
I could have future allAmericans, kids who could
absolutely drastically changeour program in my inbox.
But my reality is that I justdon't have time with all the
hats that I wear to get throughall of those.
So you have to stand out.
(48:27):
And you have to, show up oncampus, go to camps, find people
who know people who can talk tothat coach individually, but be
relentless and make sure thatyou get in front of them.
And then, finally, I think thatI would just say everybody on
that team was the best player inhigh school.
They were.
(48:47):
Very rarely do we get a kid whowasn't the best player on our
high school team, or the bestplayer on our club team, or the
best player in that region, orwhatever it may be.
It's just the best of the bestwhen you get to this point.
And so come in ready to work,ready to roll up your sleeves
and don't give up on your dreamand, you know, decide the grass
(49:07):
is greener on the other side andhop out or, enter the transfer
portal or stop playingvolleyball because you face some
adversity.
Adversity is good.
It's going to make you whoyou're going to be.
And in the end, you're going tothank yourself for, pushing
through and developing thosecharacter traits to give you the
opportunity to reach your goals.
It's great advice.
(49:28):
It's something I preach all thetime, too.
You know, not every kid hassomebody like me.
I've been coaching for 25 years.
So for you and I to have arelationship, there's some
common sense there.
But a lot of kids don't have aparent.
They don't have a coach, a highschool coach that has those type
of ties.
So I think the advice about getmaking sure you know your role,
(49:49):
but also knowing what your truevalue is as a recruit is really
valuable.
And that may mean you, you gotto go to a couple of college
camps.
And don't waste that three daysor four days at that camp by not
talking to the coaches say, Hey,will you give me some feedback
before I leave here?
Where do you think I belong?
(50:09):
Where do you think my bestposition is?
Do you think I can play D3?
Do you think I can play higher?
Do you see me as in a certainposition?
I can't believe your staffwouldn't answer all those
questions at a camp, right?
Oh, we absolutely would.
Yeah.
So like you said, grind it,hustle it, figure it out, talk
(50:31):
to those people that actuallyknow.
Cause you know, when I calledyou about a girl, I think she
can play at your level, butshe's small and she's a great
athlete laterally, but she's,there's some things that she's
still struggling with.
I think for the right coach, shecan play at your level, but
we're still trying to figurethat out.
It doesn't matter what I think.
And it's all about what do youthink?
(50:52):
So I think the more kids can geta true evaluation from a third
assistant on a D one program, agraduate assistant on a D two
program, those things, those arereally valuable words to hear,
right?
Yeah.
And another thing that I wouldsay, we've had several kids,
whether they be local kids orkids who have learned about our
(51:14):
program from afar, who havetheir heart and soul set on
playing here.
And sometimes they get thefeedback of You're just not what
we're looking for.
You're you, maybe you don't fitwhat we need in our program.
Maybe your vertical isn't highenough, or maybe we're looking
for somebody who can speed upthe offense or, whatever it may
be.
(51:34):
Or maybe it's just like ourprogram carries 14 on our
roster.
14 to 16.
We want low numbers because wewant every single person to have
a legitimate chance to playbecause that, that just builds
culture.
If you have 10 or 12 girls onthe sideline, you have to be
really, really good at managingemotions, to keep your culture
strong because you got 10 girlswho aren't playing.
(51:56):
Right.
And so we keep a small roster,so we're not always looking for
four outsides.
So we're going to take the bestoutside that is the best fit for
us.
And you could be a really,really good player who could
play at our level and couldprobably make us better.
But we just don't need you rightnow.
And so when you get that news.
It's not the end of the world.
(52:17):
And that doesn't mean, Oh, Ican't play or I I'm not meant
for this.
It's not, we're not trying toattack you.
We're just trying to give you anhonest evaluation and give you
the opportunity to go findsomewhere else.
And I'll even tell kids, pleasesign within our conference and
come out here and show me that Iwas wrong.
If you do that, I'll hate it.
(52:38):
Like I'll hate it for ourprogram, but on the same token,
I'll be like, good for you.
Good for you.
Yeah.
And that's going to be a lifelesson that you're going to take
with you into your career.
And when the boss says somethingthat you don't like, you're not
going to, you know, tuck yourtail and turn away and lose all
your confidence.
You're going to grind it out andyou're going to become a better
(53:00):
employee.
When your marriage hits a rockyspot, you're not going to file
for divorce.
You're going to battle it out.
And you're going to, and you'regoing to hold those things
together when you have a toughpatch, raising a kid, you're not
going to give up on that kid.
So again, those are the thingsthat are important about sports.
And, sometimes we forget those.
And I think that again, just theway the world is going and the
(53:21):
power of the almighty dollar,some of those things are being
lost.
Coach, I've learned one thingtoday, and that's, Swazu is
lucky to have you and your kidsare lucky to have you.
And I hope your communitycontinues to appreciate you.
I am eternally grateful for thetime you've given me this last
couple of weeks.
And, you've got a huge fan andme moving forward.
(53:44):
So thank you for your timetoday.
Well, I appreciate that.
And, thanks for what you'redoing.
I think that you're providingsome logic to, to these kids
that you're working with andyou're also pointing them in the
right direction.
So thank you so much for havingme on.
Thank you for giving me theopportunity to talk about
division two, our conference andour program, and, we're much
appreciative, so I'll befollowing you as well.
(54:04):
A copy of that book.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Well, it's been a pleasure.
Good luck this season.
Have a, just have a ton of fungoing into, practices and I'll
look forward to keeping intouch.
Sounds great.
Thank you so much, Matt.
Hey, that's a wrap for thisepisode of the significant
coaching podcast.
I'd like to thank the great JoshCollins, head volleyball coach.
(54:27):
At Southwestern, Oklahoma state,man, does he have me pumped up?
Man.
I love listening to him and I'mexcited to follow his bulldogs.
I know they're going to haveanother great year.
If you are enjoying theseconversations, I encourage you
to subscribe on the platform ofyour choice wherever you listen
to your podcasts.
If you are interested in workingwith me or scheduling me to
(54:48):
speak at your school ororganization.
You can schedule a free strategysession@coachmattrogers.com.
Thanks again for listening.
Have a significant week.
Goodbye until next.
Welcome back to the significantcoaching podcast and coach Matt
Rogers.
This week's guest is headvolleyball.
Coach Josh Collins fromSouthwestern, Oklahoma state or
Suazo as they affectionatelycall it.
He is another great coach who Iwish I would have had the great
fortune to play for when I wasyounger.
(00:21):
His passion for coaching and isgenuine and authentic approach
to teaching and mentoring got mepumped up to root for the
bulldogs volleyball program.
Josh is in his 13th season hashad volleyball coach of his Alma
mater.
Where he's led the bulldogs toseven winning seasons in the
last eight years and was namedthe great American conference
(00:43):
coach of the year in both 2018and 2021.
And was also named Oklahomasports.net, small college coach
of the year in 2018.
As a father of a high school andclub volleyball daughter.
I picked Josh's brain on theimportance of high school play
versus club play and what hesees as the value.
(01:05):
Of each as a coach and arecruiter, you gave some really
great answers.
I love his spirit and I'mconfident you'll leave our
conversation as a big of a fanof coach Collins.
As I now am.
Please make sure to hit thatsubscribe button on all our
platforms.
You find the significantcoaching podcasts like apple,
(01:26):
Spotify, Amazon, and I heartradio, where you can listen to
past and future episodes withall my great high school,
college and professional coachand athlete guests.
I also encourage you to checkout my book on college
recruiting.
My weekly blog, or you canschedule a free college
recruitment evaluation withme@coachmattrogers.com.
(01:48):
So without further ado, here'smy conversation with coach Josh
Collins.
Coach Collins, we were justtalking before we click record
that I was I was a collegebasketball coach for a long time
and you coach some basketballand volleyball.
I, October 15th, it was our datefor basketball coaches.
And for me, the seasons hasstarted to change.
(02:10):
It started to get a little bitcolder, in about the first week
of October, man, I started toshake a little bit cause I was
so excited, ready to get back onthe floor and be coaching.
Yeah.
It's that time of year for youas a volleyball coach, do you
have some of those senses thatkick in or there is a great deal
of excitement that will come assoon as everybody is here.
(02:32):
All of the travel plans are set.
I told my wife at lunch today, Ihave this tightness in my chest.
I think some of it isexcitement, but also some of it
is, anxiousness, just makingsure that we have all of our
ducks in a row.
Absolutely.
I know that feeling and I'm sureyou're just coming out of camp
season too.
(02:52):
Right.
Correct.
Yes, sir.
Where you haven't been able tobreathe and think.
And it was actually a prettyeasy camp season for us because
we play in a 4, 000 seat arenahere at Southwestern Oklahoma
state, and it got a brand newfloor this summer.
So we, didn't host any campsbecause we didn't know the
timeline.
And so we did all satellitecamps.
(03:12):
So that made things a little bitthe schedule a little bit
easier.
Obviously we missed that time tobe with different student
athletes and to show our brandof volleyball to other people.
But there's always next year.
Yeah.
And that's always hard too,because you want to show off
your gym to all these young kidsand show off your facilities.
So I'm sure there's sometoughness there too.
(03:32):
Yeah we really miss what we callour elite camp which is, the
camp where we bring in prospectsand really show off our campus
and show off our facilities andget to see those kids who are
still looking for a place toplay.
That's great.
Tell me about your league alittle bit.
I, it's, I talk to families allthe time and I don't think
(03:53):
there's a, really a greatperspective of how many great
conferences out there, how manygreat coaches are out there.
Tell me a little bit about yourprogram and within your league.
Cause I think it's amazing howmuch talent is there.
Yeah, so I've had I've beenblessed to be a part of this
league since its inception.
And I was actually a part of ourlast league, which still stands.
(04:14):
We just, we moved away fromthem.
The Lone Star Conference thetravel for us in Oklahoma and
the Lone Star Conference waspretty difficult.
I think that the Lone Star isstill dealing with some of that,
they have some really long roadtrips.
And then I just think that thedirections that we were moving
were a little bit different aswell, especially at that time.
Our university was not fitfinancially to be in the same
(04:36):
category as some of thoseschools in the Lone Star
Conference.
And many of those schools thatwe were in the Lone Star
Conference with have moved up toDivision one.
And in 2011 we formed aconference with some schools in
Arkansas who were also doing thesame thing in the Gulf South
conference.
And so we created the greatAmerican conference and it's
great parody.
(04:57):
There's six.
Oklahoma schools, there are sixArkansas schools.
Our longest road trip is abouteight hours.
And we only make that road tripevery other year because of the
way that we do the volleyballside of things.
Now the basketball schools theyplay everybody home and home.
But in volleyball, we only playOklahoma home and home.
(05:20):
And then we alternate every yearwith Arkansas.
For instance, this year we havethe Arkansas schools.
We have four of them coming tous and we're only going to two
of them.
Nice travel partners.
So when we travel, we play oneArkansas school on Thursday and
then the other Arkansas schoolon Friday.
And so it's just a one trip toArkansas.
We come back.
(05:40):
And Friday night, or do you comeback Saturday?
We come back Friday night.
We play at 4 0 PM on Friday.
Oh, that's not bad.
Yeah.
Not at all.
Not at all.
It's not a late arrival.
We have our Saturdays, which iskind of nice, which is
fantastic.
Nobody has their Saturdays involleyball.
Exactly.
And I'll go on record and say Ivoted against it and I hated the
idea.
And all the other coaches in ourleague were smarter than me
(06:02):
because after we did it oneyear, I asked all of our
players, I was afraid we'd misstoo much class time.
Yeah.
And all of our players thoughtit was very doable and they
really enjoyed the opportunityto catch up on Saturday and
Sunday in the classroom andtheir homework but also support
our football team on Saturday.
Absolutely.
That's it.
So that's, it really is smart.
Cause I think I would have beenlike you, I would have been
(06:23):
arguing.
Yeah, let's do it on Saturday.
Let's give them a day of anextra day of class.
Let's have a day between gamesjust so we can recover a little
bit.
There's so many things that itmakes sense now that I think
about it playing Thursdays andFridays.
Yeah we've really enjoyed it.
It's a 6 p.
m.
match on Thursday, 4 p.
m.
match on Saturday.
So there is a little bit ofturnaround time.
(06:45):
We've always played back toback.
So before we played Friday,Saturday and when we were in the
Lone Star Conference, that's oneof the things that we didn't
necessarily like.
We played Thursday, Saturday.
And some of the towns that we goto, that having that Friday off,
there's a lot of downtime andnot much to do.
Right.
And we found ourselves sittingin the hotel a lot.
You know, in tournament season,you always play back to back.
(07:05):
So it kind of gets us preparedfor the conference tournament
and NCAA tournament should wemake it.
And I really like our schedulewithin our conference.
And then just the parody top tobottom is, it's really, really
good.
And when we joined the Arkansasschools were pretty dominant.
I think Arkansas Tech or Hardingwon the first several years of
the conference.
(07:26):
We broke through in 2015Southern Nazarene after us.
Now Oklahoma Baptist is in themix and they've won the
conference championship severaltimes.
And so it just feels like everyschool within our league is
raising the bar.
And we need to because we playin one of, if not the toughest
region in the country.
So our region is made up of us,the Great American Conference
(07:49):
the MIAA, which is all of theKansas and Nebraska schools,
some schools in Missouri.
They're always very, very tough.
And then the Northern SunConference, which is Home of
Concordia St.
Paul, who's won nine of the last13 to 14 national championships.
Minnesota, Duluth, SouthwestMinnesota state.
So our region is so tough that,in the last couple of years,
(08:10):
like we had the number 12 teamin the nation in our conference
and they didn't make theregional.
Right?
Yeah.
My niece is the head volleyballcoach at UW Platteville.
It's the same thing up therewith D three.
She's one back to back 2020 winsin, 20 and seven back to back
years that haven't made thetime.
That's yeah, it's crazy.
(08:31):
Just crazy.
Really good volleyball in thecentral part of the United
States.
There is.
Usually on the D1 side at thepower five level, you see it out
on the coast or, obviously theuniversity of Texas has been
very dominant, but, for somereason, right in the middle of
the United States and divisiontwo, it's, it's very, very good
volleyball.
Well, I, I do a lot ofconsulting with college athletic
(08:51):
directors and presidents.
And one of the things we alwaystalk about is, is conference
versus non conferencescheduling.
So I haven't talked about thisin a podcast, and I think this
is really a big thing that Idon't think families understand
what you're doing a year,sometimes.
18 months in advance on yourschedule.
Talk a little bit about how yougo about building your schedule.
(09:14):
Cause we talked about travel.
We talked about budget.
What does that look like for youa year in advance?
You know, that's something thatwe've really harped on within
our conference, because we aretrying to raise our level to the
two premier conferences in thecountry and the M I double a and
the Northern sun, and you got totake a very strategic path to
get there.
(09:34):
And the strength of schedule isso important when it comes down
to regional ranking, anddeciding if you make that
national tournament or not.
And so you have to be very smartbecause if you schedule the top
teams in the country and you go500, you're not going to make
it.
But if you schedule, the mid tolower level teams in the country
(09:56):
and you go, you win all of yourmatches, you're not going to
make it.
And so you have to win, You haveto schedule the best teams that
you can and still win themajority of your games in order
to get into that regionaltournament.
And we're obviously veryselective about what tournaments
we go to.
We evaluate the type of teamthat we have.
This year we return nine and wefeel like we have a really good
(10:17):
chance to be good this year.
So we wanted to beef up ourschedule a little bit and really
test us early.
And so we're playing several,uh, Tournament teams from 2023
in our preseason tournaments togive us that chance to get that
at large at bid.
So I love that Talk a little bitabout when you're obviously
you're thinking about thatstrength of schedule and making
the nationals and getting thatopen bid If you don't win the
(10:39):
league, you don't win your yourtournament Talk a little bit
about how your thoughts work interms of getting your schedule
right to make the nationalsversus Looking at your team,
like you said, you got ninereturners this year and go,
where do we need confidence?
Do we need some wins?
Do we need some less competitivegames where we can kind of
(11:01):
figure out who we are?
Is that a part of your process?
Oh, absolutely.
And some of that you talkedabout, it's 18 months ahead.
It's, it's even two years aheadbecause last year, we felt like
we were making, some strides.
And so we scheduled a West TexasA& M who had won the national
championship, and we were luckyenough to get the, to host them
at our place.
(11:21):
And, unfortunately we didn't winthat match.
we got beaten in a very closefive.
It was, uh, I think it was 11,11 or 12, 12 in the fifth set.
and we had a, an incredibleenvironment.
Our, our band brought all 97members of the band.
Kendra, who's a good friend ofmine.
Now she's, you know, she's movedon.
(11:42):
Um, but, uh, you know, when shecalled her first time out, I
think we were up 16, 11, thefirst set.
And I looked at our band andevery trumpet was pointed at her
face in her time.
Now I thought this might be theend of this relationship.
What an atmosphere.
It was great.
And I think we had, you know,over a thousand people in
attendance and it was a greatatmosphere, a lot of fun, but,
(12:04):
just scheduling them andcompeting against them, even
though we lost, I think our teamcame out and said, we're really
close.
We're really close.
And I think that kind of offeredsome drive in the spring and
then offered some drive, in thesummer to be ready for this fall
schedule and we've gone out andagain, we've scheduled some
perennial powerhouses in ourpreseason, tournaments and, uh,
(12:25):
so I hope that we've gained someconfidence.
Just from last year's schedule.
But then we have some teamsthat, you know, we're going to
have to go out and compete andwe're going to have to play
well, but if we get wins againstthem, it's going to give us that
confidence that we need to go upagainst some of those, those
bigger programs who, have had alonger lasting, sense of, just
success.
Then, we're a fairly youngprogram.
(12:46):
We started in 2005.
When we're playing West Texas A&M, they've won multiple national
championships before our programeven started.
And so we're trying to build tothat level.
That's great.
When you're a head coach,there's no such thing as a moral
victory, but when you play ateam like that, you take them to
five sets and your kids arefighting their tails off and
(13:07):
going, wow, we're, we're withthis, we're with the best team
in the country and we can beatthem, what that does for the
rest of your season can beamazing.
It really is.
and just like you said, there'sno moral victory.
So for me as a coach, the onlythings I think about from that
match are like, if we would haveonly done this, if we would have
just made this adjustment,right, hindsight's 2020, but
(13:31):
again, I think for our players,there are moral victories, you
know, and, and.
We have a lot of Amarillo areakids and that's where WT is
located.
And for them, they've alwayslooked at WT, and some of them
had chances to go there andchose to come to us.
And some of them wanted to gothere and didn't have that
opportunity.
And, and I think now thatthey're here at Southwestern,
they're very grateful that they,had the opportunity here, but
(13:53):
all of a sudden they're like,okay.
We're there.
Like we are there now, we justgot to finish this thing.
And so, I'm very excited to see,you know, how that translate to
this season.
And, I think that our kids arevery confident and, we also are
confident, but we're.
we're aware that our schedule istough, not only in the
(14:13):
preseason, but our conference isjust getting better and better
every year.
And you look around at thesigning articles and what each
program has brought in.
And so we already have asteriskson our on our schedule of, we
know we have to bring it in thismatch.
That's great.
Well, coach, you're talking to aclub volleyball dad.
(14:33):
I don't know if I told you thatwhen we talked last week, I did
not know that.
So I'm in every fricking way.
Are you about to ask me for aloan?
No, God, I should.
Yes.
Yeah.
That should be where I take thisand every, every club parent,
the country's gonna agree withme.
I am amazed, I coachedbasketball a long time, so I was
(14:55):
in a lot of gyms.
I was in a lot of terms.
I am amazed when we go toAtlanta.
And there's 150 courts in afacility.
We go to Dallas, there's 145courts.
We go to, you know, how do youattack club volleyball as a
recruiter?
You know, this will be differentthan anybody you talk to
(15:16):
probably because we are veryunorthodoxed.
I'm also our assistant athleticdirector for game day
operations.
So for much of club season, I amannouncing basketball games or
announcing baseball games ormaking sure the run of show is
going good.
Right.
You know, at our differentsporting events.
And so I don't have thatfreedom, to get out and go to
(15:36):
all the club tournaments.
And, my assistant coach isactually a volunteer assistant
and she's also our assistantcompliance director.
So she's, she's in the same boatas me.
She doesn't get to get out toall the club tournaments.
So we've got to relied on ourcontacts.
there are different scoutingagent or recruiting agencies,
such as your own out there, thatwe rely on.
And really just word of mouth.
(15:57):
And, it's crazy how those thingswork and it's getting easier and
easier.
We have a lot of players who areout there coaching now.
and, Thankfully, I think thatour university and our program
has a really good name.
And so we've been able to getinto some hot beds of volleyball
and we keep pulling from thosehot beds and it's making our
program better and better.
But when we do have thatopportunity, uh, you know, this
(16:18):
year we went to Lone Star, um,and a lot of times for us, it's
more following up with kids thatwe've already started the
recruiting process with, if yougo in there with a blank slate.
You are going to waste a lot oftime and your knees are going to
hurt and your back's going tohurt and you're not going to get
very far.
But I find that most of the timein division two, the coaches who
(16:40):
were out recruiting at thosethings, they've already targeted
players through word of mouth,through agencies, however it may
be.
And they're getting out to watchthose kids in action.
Kids reaching out to youdirectly ahead of time.
Yeah, that's correct.
Yeah.
Well, thank you.
I just sold 20, 20 more booksbecause of that coach.
That's a centerpiece of my bookthat coaches, coaches are not
(17:01):
going to these tournaments witha blank sheet of paper.
It would be a complete waste ofyour time to hope that you would
find kids there in that type offacility.
You have to know who's thereahead of time.
Now you might find a half dozenkids you like while you're
there.
But you're going there so youdon't have to go to 18 different
towns.
You can see 18 kids in oneplace.
(17:21):
Am I wrong?
Absolutely.
Yeah, that's absolutely correct.
That's fantastic.
All right.
I want to, I'm going to diveinto club volleyball a little
bit.
Cause I really want to hear yourthoughts on it.
cause you just said we, werecruit through our resources.
We don't, we can't get to every.
Club tournament.
We can't get to every nationalevent.
(17:43):
Talk to me as a parent.
How important is it that my kidplays club if I want her to play
division three, any ID to D oneis it essential that she gets
that level of experience and whyor why not?
There are a lot of factors thatcome into that.
it probably depends on the levelof your, your child's athletic
(18:08):
ability.
There, there are some freakathletes out there for lack of a
better word that it might notmatter that much, it also
depends on the level of the highschool.
That they play within, we, wehave a recruit coming in 2025
who's won three statechampionships and, her teammates
are all going power five, um,and her high school team is much
(18:30):
better than her club team.
That is very rare, especiallywhere we are in Oklahoma, so I
don't know that that happens awhole lot, but I don't know that
she necessarily absolutelyneeded that club experience to
get exposure, and to get thathigh level of play.
She was getting that experienceat the high school.
I am a big proponent of multisport athletes.
(18:52):
I went to a very tiny school.
I I'm a very tiny person.
So, and not a great athlete.
I can say that now, but, I hadthe opportunity to play every
sport that we offered in mylittle town.
And I think that made me a wellrounded athlete, but more than
that, a well rounded person.
And so we actually have severalkids on our roster who play
(19:14):
multiple sports.
So I like that opportunity.
I like that.
Toolbox that they gain whiledoing that.
But unfortunately that'sbecoming, more and more rare.
And there's a lot of pressurefor kids to play year out.
And, I don't even know that wecan make the decision right now
of if that's a positive or not.
(19:36):
And I know one coach inparticular that comes to mind,
who's a good friend of mine,who's a fellow division two
coach, um, has stoppedrecruiting in his state and is
coming into our state to recruitbecause there's less kids who
play, you know, 11 months out ofthe year.
And he's found that when he getsthose kids who play 11 months
out of the year, they're alreadyburned out, and not only that,
but they have these naggingoveruse injuries that, his
(20:00):
program then has torehabilitate, for their first
year in their program.
And so.
You know, I would love to tellyou that I'm all about, no, you
don't have to play clubvolleyball.
you just have to do the workthat, you would get from club
volleyball, but some of that isalso, protecting your mentality
and protecting, just the fatigueof your body.
but that is a very, very trickyequation.
(20:25):
I talked to kids about this, ifyou're a baseball pitcher and
you're doing this 12 months outof the year, if you're a hitter,
if you're an outside, you're apin hitter and this is all
you're doing.
This is this shoulder iseventually lots of wear and
tear.
It's going to tear and it's notgoing to be what you want it to
be.
So I love that mentality.
I preach multi sport and Ireally in tell me if I'm wrong,
(20:48):
coach, I don't think it's thecollege coaches driving this.
I have, I have never heard acollege coach say, Matt, I got
it.
I'm only recruiting volleyballplayers.
If they play 11 months out ofthe year, I've never heard that
from a college coach.
Have you?
No, absolutely not.
It's the almighty dollar.
Yeah, that's, that's what isdriving all sports now.
(21:08):
And as a basketball coach, youknow that, you know, the money
involved in, uh, you know, theoutside of school aspect of
basketball is it takesbasketball in some good
directions, but it also takes itin some bad directions.
And I think the same can be saidabout, the club.
Just the mindset.
I think that there is a littlebit of overuse, pushing of the
(21:29):
athlete that wouldn't be thereif it was just a volunteer,
nonprofit organization.
You know, um, I think thepushing the student athlete
towards the highest possiblelevel that they can get to,
whether or not it's a good fit,Is a product of the club, world.
I think that they need thosedivision one power five signees
(21:53):
so that they can go get thatnext group of parents who is
willing to pay, tens ofthousands of dollars a year for
their kid to play for thatprogram.
And so it makes sense.
I don't fault them.
I understand where that mindsetis coming from, but I don't know
that it's always taking oursport in the positive direction.
Well, I'm, I'm in the heart ofit.
(22:13):
You know, my, my daughter's,this is her fifth club in five
years.
And it's not we her dream whenshe started club at 11 was I
want to be at the same club.
I want to be at the same girlsevery year.
And the club disbands the teamevery year and brings in 11 new
kids.
And we can't figure it outbecause how do you grow with
(22:37):
your teammates?
How do you learn where to putthat ball for your, for your
middle hitter?
How do you learn how to makethat pass to your, to your
setter where there's, there'scontinuity there if you never
play with the same kids allyear.
So that's, that's the part ofclub that drives me crazy.
Matt, I would say the moreimportant part is how do you
form a family?
(22:57):
You, you got it.
You're right.
I think that, I think thatwe've, we've lost perspective on
that.
And, and you know, what is thepercentage of those 11 year old
girls who start their clubcareer, who are going to go make
money playing the sport ofvolleyball?
It's next to nil.
Um, so we, we forgotten that thepurpose of sports is to build
(23:20):
character.
The purpose of sports is to formlifelong.
Relationships that literallybecome family.
I know it's not blood, but it,many of our girls are closer to
their teammates than they are totheir brothers and sisters.
And not that they're not closeto their brothers and sisters.
It's just a different bond.
And you know, and that, that.
(23:42):
Club or, AAU or whatever youwant to call it.
Mentality is now at the collegelevel as well with, the transfer
portal.
And again, I'm not saying thatthe transfer portal doesn't have
positives to it.
It absolutely does.
But the mindset of the grass isalways greener is tearing the
(24:02):
best aspects of sports away fromthese kids.
I agree.
My best friend that was myshooting guard in college.
We still talk every other week.
I'm, I'm his God, son of hisyoungest son, you know, and I
don't think about our playingdays a whole lot, but I sure do
(24:23):
think about the fun we had andhow much we love each other and
we call each other brother andI, that was what was great about
college sports for me, right.
And I have no idea.
Whether you're your college teamwas highly successful or below
500, but it doesn't matterbecause those stories come out
of both sides of the aislethere, kids who are a part of
(24:47):
teams that lost all four yearsin their career, though, they
may have been miserable attimes.
They form those bonds.
If they, if they stick it out,they form those bonds.
Uh, just the same as, as youknow, players who win national
championships.
Yeah, it's such a great pointand I'm glad, I'm glad you've
stressed it because I want everykid to have that experience.
(25:07):
I want every kid to feel thatthey've, they've got that
family, they've got that bond.
We overuse the word culture somuch in sports, but really when
your culture is good.
Your kids just can't wait to bewith you.
Can't wait to be with eachother.
You know, the winning is great,but they just can't wait to
(25:28):
share.
Right.
I agree.
And that to me, that is morerewarding than, than wins.
Um, yeah, you know, I've hadteams that have been highly
successful that I.
I enjoyed my time with them lessthan I did with the kids who
overachieved by being threegames below 500.
And, it's all about thatexperience and all about doing
(25:50):
life every day with a group ofpeople who were trying to
establish that like mindednessand get all of their arrows
pointed in the same direction toachieve as high, as they can
with that group.
That's great.
I, you and I had a greatconversation last week and I
want to, I want to bring some ofthat back up cause I just love
(26:10):
your approach to team building,building your roster.
Um, you don't pigeonholeyourself.
Talk a little bit about thatsmaller hitter.
You've got your pit hitter thatyou've got and talk, talk about
her size and what she's able todo.
How good I am at recruiting.
(26:32):
Yes.
Let's hit that right on thehead.
I got contacted by a player whoplayed in our league.
She didn't play for me and nowshe's coaching club, coaching
high school as well, and shesaid, you got to check this kid
out and Lacey will be a fifthyear senior for us.
So this was, five years ago.
And so we brought Lacey in.
Um, I should have knownimmediately that Lacey was a
trooper because the only time wecould play with her was at six
(26:55):
o'clock in the morning on therecruiting visit.
So she comes in at 6 a.
m.
and just balls out against us,but she's 5'6 and my other
outsides were at least five, 10,I think on that roster, we had a
six, one at outside.
So bigger kids, most of theoutsides in our league are in
between five, six and six, oneor five, 10 and six, one, excuse
(27:16):
me.
And so, Lacey plays with us.
At that point, we didn't have awhole lot of scholarship to
offer.
Obviously division two is alittle bit different than
division one.
We give a lot of partialscholarships out.
And so in our conversationafter, you know, I always tell
them things they did good thingsthat I think that they could
improve on and where they wouldfit.
And I just told her, Lacey, youcan absolutely play for us.
(27:37):
There's no question.
You're probably going to be aback row player.
We'll, we'll feed you a lot ofback row attack balls.
But.
If I'm just being completelyhonest with you, we have a very
small amount of scholarship tooffer.
I think you're worth more thanthat scholarship.
And your goal is to hit frontrow.
I don't think you'll do thathere.
Go somewhere else, you know, go,go somewhere else.
(27:58):
And so she left discouraged thatday.
I'm sure.
Um, I get a call a month laterand she's like, coach, I don't
want to go anywhere else.
I want to go there and I'm goingto prove you wrong.
And I was like, Lacey, this isall the money we have.
And she said, I'll make it work.
She's let us in kills all fouryears.
That's amazing.
One of the best outsides in our,in our league, five foot six at
(28:21):
the D two level in your leagueled you, led you to team and
kills and every year, everyyear, you know, and, and she
just continues to polish hergame when she came to us, she
could hit with power and she hada really nasty roll shot.
And so we just worked with herevery year and kind of
challenged her and now she cantool, now she can open hand tip,
(28:44):
she can hit thumb down, she canhit line, all, all of those
different aspects.
And so she, she's just builtherself.
She's a workhorse and, and shedoes, you know, she's one of
those kids.
I said, you have to evaluatetheir amount of athleticism
while she is a freak athlete.
She's.
Just a solid ball of muscle andjumps out of the gym.
But, um, yeah, that's how goodof a recruiter I am.
(29:05):
I told the kid who's let us inand kills every year for the
last four years.
Sorry.
You're not good enough.
If you're, if you've been acollege coach for just a little
bit, you don't have a story likethat.
Something's not right.
Yeah.
I love it.
Fortunately, I have too manystories like that.
I do.
I do too.
I, I remember when I was, when Iwas just recruit being a college
(29:27):
recruiter, I had a, I'll tellyou a quick story.
I had a soccer coach.
I think it was division two orsmall division one reach out to
me and said, Matt, we just gotour butts kicked by these
giants.
He goes, I'm tired of looking atsoccer recruits that are, that
are teeny tiny.
(29:48):
I only want you sending me sixfoot.
players.
This is a men's to see six footsoccer pl it.
Well, I go coach, no sure thatwhat you need, Same coach calls
(30:09):
me back and he goes, Matt, we'vegot some problems.
I go, coach, haven't we beensending you the six, the six
footers?
He goes, yeah, yeah, you guyshave been great.
Everything I asked for, but wejust got our tails run off the
field by a bunch of midgets,five, six kids left foot, right
foot.
We couldn't keep up with them.
So it goes, everything I toldyou two weeks ago.
(30:31):
He goes, throw it in thegarbage, forget it.
If that's not the epitome ofcollege recruiting, that is it.
All right.
So I love your approach thatyou're so open minded and how
you want to build your programthat you want great kids talk a
little bit about what you'relooking for in terms of their
(30:55):
attitude, their character, whatjumps out at you when you're
talking to a kid and you watchthem play.
Well, as I told you, we don'tspend a lot of time off campus
recruiting.
So a lot of times we're watchingthrough film or we're, talking
to contacts.
and that's the first thing Iask, what kind of family dynamic
do they come from?
(31:15):
And it doesn't necessarily meanthat they have to come from,
you're, you're perfect, youknow, picturesque.
Family, but it means that theyhave adapted and, people gain
character traits from whatevertype of family they come from.
So I want to hear what that is,and some kids have a ton of grit
because they've been through alot.
(31:36):
Some kids are very appreciativebecause they didn't have a lot
and now they have thisopportunity.
Other kids have had the bestopportunities in the world, but
are still grounded, you know, soI want to hear those things.
I want to hear about thoseattributes.
I want to hear about theircharacter first and foremost.
Most of the kids that, that weget contacted about, our
contacts know enough about us,to know that they're talented
(31:57):
enough to play for you.
Now, what do you think?
And so, usually we see the kidswho can play for us.
Absolutely.
But I want to know deeper thanthat.
And so I'm asking thosequestions and I'm asking, you
know, how do they, how do theyreact when they're not playing?
How do they react when, Hey,yeah, you're the starter, but
you are not hitting well rightnow.
So you're going to get pulled.
(32:18):
Are they over on the sidelinepouting?
Is their body language bad?
Are they over there cheering onthe person who just replaced
them?
Because that's what family is.
You don't have to like it.
I don't want you to like it.
I want you to be a competitor.
Yeah.
And I want you to find a way toget back out there on the court
and pouting on the sideline isnot it encouraging your teammate
and making the wind moreimportant at that point.
(32:39):
And more than that, holding thatculture together, that we're all
in this together and whoevergets it done, that's what we
want it to be.
And so, I will find my way backon the court and practice.
Right.
But right now it's my job to bea good teammate.
So I want to hear if that's thecase.
I want to hear, how are theygoing to react when, you know,
we have to work a basketballgame here?
Cause it's life in the deuce,baby.
(33:00):
Like we're going to do a littlebit of everything.
So you're going to be cleaningup after a basketball game.
You're going to be fundraising.
You're going to be doingcommunity service events.
Are you going to be, out therebeing an energy vampire, or are
you going to be out there?
Excited for the opportunity toserve the community that serves
you so much.
And, so I'm finding out from mycontacts, is this a kid that we
(33:21):
want to recruit?
Because they're going to havethese intangibles.
Can they buy into somethingbigger than themselves?
Yeah.
If not, they're not gonna behappy here.
Can they roll up their sleeves?
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And you know, we were luckyenough a couple of years ago to
get a kid who transferred to usfrom Tulane.
She touched 7.
(33:42):
I mean, she was amazing.
She's playing professionallynow.
She's just signed her thirdprofessional contract, played in
France last year, just outsideof Paris.
This next year she's going toThailand.
So obviously an incredibleathlete.
Um, very, very good middleblocker.
But she got pulled in her firsttournament and when she came on
her visit, I told her flat out.
(34:03):
You've had a lot of really goodexperience.
She played four years at Tulane.
She played, she has stats andwins against Ohio state against
LSU.
Like obviously the level's goingto be a little bit different,
but you know, division twovolleyball is still good.
And if you're not performing,you're not going to be out
there.
And so.
we had that conversation and Iwas really upfront with her and
I didn't try to sugarcoatanything with her.
(34:24):
And sure enough, in our firsttournament, she got roofed by
the setter on a joust and shecame over there and sat with me
and she didn't like it, but shedidn't get root by a setter
again the rest of the season,you know, and she reacted in a
very positive way.
She was a great teammate.
She cheered on the girl who wentin for, and those are the kids
that we're looking for.
And that kid in particular hadevery opportunity to have a ton
(34:45):
of ego and act like she, was themost elite in the gym, but she
didn't.
And those are the players thatwe're looking for.
So, our next stage in theprocess for us, typically, we
spend a lot of our money onofficial visits.
And we'll fly kids in from allover the country because,
Weatherford is a special place.
It's very remote.
We're about an hour to theoklahoma city metro and it's a
(35:07):
small town of about 13 000people it's very southern, you
know, it's uh, very slow pacedEverybody talks with the draw,
And so it's very unique now.
I think it's a very specialplace And so if we get kids on a
visit Nine times out of 10,they're going to see that and
we're going to get them.
And so it's just an opportunityfor me to spend, one, two,
(35:29):
sometimes even more days, withthe recruit.
And I should be careful.
I'll say that not more than 48hours.
But, uh, spend that time withthe recruit and, make sure they
get a feel for who I am, and Iget a feel for who they are.
And there's been times where webrought kids that we thought
were really, really good on thecourt, onto our campus.
And we've known within the first15 minutes that they were not a
(35:51):
fit for us.
Talk, talk a little bit aboutthat.
What are those red flags thatpop up on a visit or when you do
happen to be out and about at ahigh school and you're talking
to a kid, are there certainthings that just rub you the
wrong way real quickly?
Negativity is my Kryptonite.
(36:12):
I do not deal well with it onthe court.
I do not deal well with it inthe locker room.
And so on that visit, if there'sa ton of negative comments,
whether it be about, Our,community or our facilities or
our campus, it tends to be lessof that and more negative
comments directed at who they'rewith, negative comments to their
mom or dad or, just a sense ofentitlement or, just a sense
(36:35):
that the world revolves aroundthem.
Those things are immediate redflags for me.
If we go into a place and, theydon't like the way that somebody
approached them and, and I cansee that interaction.
It was clearly not meant thatway.
If they don't like that, that'sa red flag for me.
And if you're going to find away to be a victim, You have a
(36:57):
lot of chances to do that to dothat as an athlete, whether
you're a six rotation starter,then you're going to be
complaining about the way youwere statted, or you're going to
be complaining about the way youwere set, or you're going to be
complaining about the pass thatyou received.
those things do not just stay inone portion of your life, they
translate.
So if your negative comments arecoming towards your parents
(37:19):
because they didn't park the carin the right place or they
didn't grab your water out ofthe car.
Then those are going totranslate to my center when she
sets the ball to you and I, wedon't have time for that.
That's going to break ourculture down.
And we're all about family.
Now obviously there's timeswithin a team to have those
positive conversations, andwe're always open to giving each
other feedback, but it can't befrom a victim mindset.
(37:40):
So those are big things that welook for, just to see, Hey,
that's a major red flag.
But coach, I'm 6'3 and I playedfor the National Championship
Club team.
I mean, is it bad or is it good?
You'll be somebody else'sheadache.
I don't care.
Thank you.
We had, we were looking for aJUCO outside one year.
(38:01):
This was several years back.
And we had a two time JUCO AllAmerican on our campus who was
very, very good.
And I made my decision in herfirst interaction on campus.
Yeah.
Yeah, and we passed on her andshe was shocked, but our culture
is more important than one thanone person.
(38:21):
And I got the sense that shewouldn't be able to buy into the
team mentality.
And if you can't do that at ouruniversity, then you're not
going to, you're not going to behappy here.
And that's the main thing.
If you're not happy, then thepeople that you rub shoulders
with are not going to be happyeither.
So we want kids who can come inand buy into a team culture, who
(38:42):
are willing to roll up theirsleeves, who can take off their
cool.
my kids hear that all the time.
If you're too cool to go read tosome elementary kids, you're too
cool for our program.
Go somewhere where you can becool.
Yeah.
Same for me.
It was same with parents.
I would go to gyms and I wouldsit, I wouldn't wear my school
colors.
I would just go to the game andI'd sit up in the bleachers and
(39:03):
I'd kind of figure out who theparents were, the kids I was
looking at.
If I heard any negativity abouttheir high school coach, any
negativity about, you know,other kids or anything like
that, that would be enough forme.
I don't know how that is foryou, but the parent negativity
was just as bad for me.
(39:25):
And I talked about some of thenegatives about club.
I'll talk about some positives.
Please do.
Yeah.
And services like, like youoffer.
My inbox is inundated with kidswho want to play.
So I don't have to hang my haton a kid and take a chance on a
kid whose parents are badmouthing the high school coach
up in the stands or bad mouthingthe club coach up in the stands.
(39:48):
And I don't have to take achance on a kid who is demanding
a blue Gatorade instead of ayellow Gatorade that their mom
just brought them.
Go back and get me a blueGatorade.
You know, I don't, I can markyou off very quickly.
Can you imagine you were a smalltown kid like I was, I can't
even imagine doing that to myfolks.
(40:09):
I would have not clearedconcussion protocol for the next
match.
I was going to say it withoutsaying it.
My dad would have knocked meout.
Yeah, my dad would have, my dadwould have come out of his chair
in about a second to let me knowthat doesn't ever happen.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
The world has changed a littlebit.
(40:29):
Let's get out of the negativeand get back into the positive
for you.
Talk about where your joy ofcoaching comes from.
And, we talked about how theseason and the tightness of the
chest, you can feel it coming,but where does your joy of
coaching come from?
Obviously I love to compete.
I love, the feeling of, youknow, I was kind of late to
(40:53):
volleyball.
As you mentioned, I coachedbasketball, so I really didn't
get introduced fully intovolleyball until my senior year
of college.
And at that time, our coachhere, coach Bo Palasoddy, Dr.
Palasoddy now.
It was our coach and I was hisstudent assistant and he just
took me on.
Just out of the goodness of hisheart, I think, so I was with
(41:13):
him and I called my dad.
My dad's a very good basketballcoach, coached in the state of
Texas forever.
Now he's retired in Texas andcoaches in Oklahoma.
And I called him and I was like,dad, coach Bo's a great guy.
Like he is a good, good man, buthe is a terrible coach.
Our best player will get likefour kills in a row and then he
just pulls her out of the game.
(41:34):
And then I learned later on thatshe was a middle and she was
rotating back row.
So like that's, that's theamount of volleyball that I knew
back in 2005.
So I'm relatively new to thegame, right?
So I'm not necessarily outexecuting people with X's and
O's.
Like we have coaches in ourconference who, played power
(41:55):
five and I've been doing it for30 years.
So My joy comes when I outworkthem.
And, when, I know that ourscouting report helped our teams
be successful, helped our girlsbe successful.
So that's a great sense of joy.
We sing our fight song, afterevery win.
And it's a passionate thing.
And it's something that, ourteam has helped revive here at
(42:16):
our university.
We didn't have that fight songin place when I got here and.
Our team and some other peopleon campus kind of revived it.
And now it's very much part ofour culture.
And so when we go in that lockerroom and our girls are screaming
every word, just excited aboutthe way that we just got,
that's, A great deal ofsatisfaction, but I think bigger
(42:36):
than that, it's thoseinteractions that I have with
players who gave their heart andsouls to our program for 2345
years.
And then I talked to them, whenthey have their first child or I
talked to them, at theirwedding, and one of my biggest
mentors in this game, ChrisHerron, who's at the university
of Washburn or Washburnuniversity.
I don't know which one it is.
(42:57):
But, you know, he's, his recordis just outstanding.
He's been to the tournament,more years than I've been alive.
He's got so many all Americans.
And one time I heard him speakat ABCA and they asked him, how
do you define success after sucha successful career?
And he said, he stopped and hepaused for a second.
And then he said, I gauge mysuccess by how many wedding
(43:20):
invitations I get each summer.
And that spoke.
volumes to me because I, I dothink that was something that I
held dear before I heard Chrissay that.
But when I heard him say thatone of the premier coaches in
division two volleyball, I knewI can continue on the path that
I'm on and I can value people.
(43:41):
Overproduction and, so manyplayers we've had come into our
program that we missed on, youknow, players that weren't quite
as good as we thought they weregoing to be, or players that we
recruited over, and they didn'tget the playing time that they
thought they were getting.
And honestly, they didn't getthe playing time that we thought
that they were going to getduring the recruiting process,
but we treated them like humansduring their career.
(44:04):
And we had tough conversationsand we had to give our side as
to why they were recruiting.
And they had to give their sideto, why they should be playing.
And, it wasn't always rainbowsand butterflies, but there was
always love and there wasalways, Hey, how are things back
home?
Hey, how are your classes going?
Are you, are you homesick atall?
Like what's going on?
(44:24):
Just developing thatrelationship and they stick it
out.
And parts of their journey arethe hardest parts that they've
experienced up until that point.
Parts of their journey are alsosome of the most satisfactory,
most rewarding, uh, and biggestcharacter building moments of
their life.
And so then you get to talk tothem four or five years down the
line, and now they're coaching,you know, six, a team in Texas,
(44:48):
you know, and, and they still.
Love me.
They love our program and gosh,I love them.
I'm so proud of where they, theheights that they've taken
themselves to.
And I think that that isprobably the most important
thing about sports.
It's definitely the mostimportant thing about our
program here at SouthwesternOklahoma state.
And it's the reason I coach.
(45:09):
Shows, you know, I asked you tosend me a good picture of you
last week and the picture of youand I told you this, it just,
your spirit was in this stillpicture, your energy and your
love for the game and your joy.
You could just tell it was inyour face and that just that
still picture.
So, and now getting to spendquality time with you today,
it's obvious that.
(45:30):
It's no joke.
You love the game.
You love your kids.
You love the experience, andthere's nothing but pure joy
there, which is the reason I dowhat I do.
I'll be honest.
I think that some of thosequalities were instilled in me
by my parents, but our communityhas instilled that and you know,
ratified it and made it strongerand just, this community that
(45:54):
we're in Weatherford and ourcampus.
That's the way we operate.
And I always tell recruits, ifyou invest a little bit.
In this program, in thiscommunity, in this university,
you'll get tenfold back and I'ma product of that.
And so now it's a pleasure tooffer that to other student
athletes.
Fantastic coach.
You've given me a lot of timetoday.
(46:15):
I've got one question.
I ask all college coachesbefore, before I let you get
onto your busy schedule, butgive a piece of advice.
And it could be advice that wasgiven to you, but give a piece
of advice that you think that16, 17 year old that's coming up
through the ranks and wants toplay college volleyball.
What advice would you give them?
(46:35):
It might be multiple parts here,but the first thing I would do
is really get a true evaluationof where you stand.
Know where you fit, and know if,you know, Hey, I'm good enough
that I could, I could go to apower five and maybe make a
difference in my senior year, ormaybe you're a kid who can go to
(46:56):
a power five and make adifference immediately, or maybe
you're a kid who I'm going tohave to fight in You know, at
the lowest levels of N.
A.
I.
Of, N.
C.
C.
A.
A.
Or whatever that level may be,but know where you fit, and try
to get a gauge of where you fitat all levels.
There's great schools in everysingle realm of college
(47:20):
athletics.
The division doesn't matter.
The next thing I would say is,decide what role you want to
have.
Some kids have the option ofbeing a difference maker at the
highest levels.
Some kids, you might have topick a level a little bit lower
than the highest level to bethat difference maker.
If you want to be a differencemaker will then find where you
can be a difference maker.
(47:40):
And that may mean playing yourfreshman year.
If that's the case, ask thepeople who know what level could
I play My first day, uh, myfirst game, in my college
career.
Once you find that out, thenstart identifying those
programs.
Start identifying schools inthat talent level.
And do be absolutely relentless,because I'm a division two coach
(48:06):
and I have thousands uponthousands of emails sent to me.
There's so many, I don't havetime to go through all of them.
And it stinks.
I could have future allAmericans, kids who could
absolutely drastically changeour program in my inbox.
But my reality is that I justdon't have time with all the
hats that I wear to get throughall of those.
So you have to stand out.
(48:27):
And you have to, show up oncampus, go to camps, find people
who know people who can talk tothat coach individually, but be
relentless and make sure thatyou get in front of them.
And then, finally, I think thatI would just say everybody on
that team was the best player inhigh school.
They were.
(48:47):
Very rarely do we get a kid whowasn't the best player on our
high school team, or the bestplayer on our club team, or the
best player in that region, orwhatever it may be.
It's just the best of the bestwhen you get to this point.
And so come in ready to work,ready to roll up your sleeves
and don't give up on your dreamand, you know, decide the grass
(49:07):
is greener on the other side andhop out or, enter the transfer
portal or stop playingvolleyball because you face some
adversity.
Adversity is good.
It's going to make you whoyou're going to be.
And in the end, you're going tothank yourself for, pushing
through and developing thosecharacter traits to give you the
opportunity to reach your goals.
It's great advice.
(49:28):
It's something I preach all thetime, too.
You know, not every kid hassomebody like me.
I've been coaching for 25 years.
So for you and I to have arelationship, there's some
common sense there.
But a lot of kids don't have aparent.
They don't have a coach, a highschool coach that has those type
of ties.
So I think the advice about getmaking sure you know your role,
(49:49):
but also knowing what your truevalue is as a recruit is really
valuable.
And that may mean you, you gotto go to a couple of college
camps.
And don't waste that three daysor four days at that camp by not
talking to the coaches say, Hey,will you give me some feedback
before I leave here?
Where do you think I belong?
(50:09):
Where do you think my bestposition is?
Do you think I can play D3?
Do you think I can play higher?
Do you see me as in a certainposition?
I can't believe your staffwouldn't answer all those
questions at a camp, right?
Oh, we absolutely would.
Yeah.
So like you said, grind it,hustle it, figure it out, talk
(50:31):
to those people that actuallyknow.
Cause you know, when I calledyou about a girl, I think she
can play at your level, butshe's small and she's a great
athlete laterally, but she's,there's some things that she's
still struggling with.
I think for the right coach, shecan play at your level, but
we're still trying to figurethat out.
It doesn't matter what I think.
And it's all about what do youthink?
(50:52):
So I think the more kids can geta true evaluation from a third
assistant on a D one program, agraduate assistant on a D two
program, those things, those arereally valuable words to hear,
right?
Yeah.
And another thing that I wouldsay, we've had several kids,
whether they be local kids orkids who have learned about our
(51:14):
program from afar, who havetheir heart and soul set on
playing here.
And sometimes they get thefeedback of You're just not what
we're looking for.
You're you, maybe you don't fitwhat we need in our program.
Maybe your vertical isn't highenough, or maybe we're looking
for somebody who can speed upthe offense or, whatever it may
be.
(51:34):
Or maybe it's just like ourprogram carries 14 on our
roster.
14 to 16.
We want low numbers because wewant every single person to have
a legitimate chance to playbecause that, that just builds
culture.
If you have 10 or 12 girls onthe sideline, you have to be
really, really good at managingemotions, to keep your culture
strong because you got 10 girlswho aren't playing.
(51:56):
Right.
And so we keep a small roster,so we're not always looking for
four outsides.
So we're going to take the bestoutside that is the best fit for
us.
And you could be a really,really good player who could
play at our level and couldprobably make us better.
But we just don't need you rightnow.
And so when you get that news.
It's not the end of the world.
(52:17):
And that doesn't mean, Oh, Ican't play or I I'm not meant
for this.
It's not, we're not trying toattack you.
We're just trying to give you anhonest evaluation and give you
the opportunity to go findsomewhere else.
And I'll even tell kids, pleasesign within our conference and
come out here and show me that Iwas wrong.
If you do that, I'll hate it.
(52:38):
Like I'll hate it for ourprogram, but on the same token,
I'll be like, good for you.
Good for you.
Yeah.
And that's going to be a lifelesson that you're going to take
with you into your career.
And when the boss says somethingthat you don't like, you're not
going to, you know, tuck yourtail and turn away and lose all
your confidence.
You're going to grind it out andyou're going to become a better
(53:00):
employee.
When your marriage hits a rockyspot, you're not going to file
for divorce.
You're going to battle it out.
And you're going to, and you'regoing to hold those things
together when you have a toughpatch, raising a kid, you're not
going to give up on that kid.
So again, those are the thingsthat are important about sports.
And, sometimes we forget those.
And I think that again, just theway the world is going and the
(53:21):
power of the almighty dollar,some of those things are being
lost.
Coach, I've learned one thingtoday, and that's, Swazu is
lucky to have you and your kidsare lucky to have you.
And I hope your communitycontinues to appreciate you.
I am eternally grateful for thetime you've given me this last
couple of weeks.
And, you've got a huge fan andme moving forward.
(53:44):
So thank you for your timetoday.
Well, I appreciate that.
And, thanks for what you'redoing.
I think that you're providingsome logic to, to these kids
that you're working with andyou're also pointing them in the
right direction.
So thank you so much for havingme on.
Thank you for giving me theopportunity to talk about
division two, our conference andour program, and, we're much
appreciative, so I'll befollowing you as well.
(54:04):
A copy of that book.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Well, it's been a pleasure.
Good luck this season.
Have a, just have a ton of fungoing into, practices and I'll
look forward to keeping intouch.
Sounds great.
Thank you so much, Matt.
Hey, that's a wrap for thisepisode of the significant
coaching podcast.
I'd like to thank the great JoshCollins, head volleyball coach.
(54:27):
At Southwestern, Oklahoma state,man, does he have me pumped up?
Man.
I love listening to him and I'mexcited to follow his bulldogs.
I know they're going to haveanother great year.
If you are enjoying theseconversations, I encourage you
to subscribe on the platform ofyour choice wherever you listen
to your podcasts.
If you are interested in workingwith me or scheduling me to
(54:48):
speak at your school ororganization.
You can schedule a free strategysession@coachmattrogers.com.
Thanks again for listening.
Have a significant week.
Goodbye until next.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.