April 4, 2025 ⢠51 mins
đď¸ Full-Court Pressure: The Tenacity Behind Carol Jueâs Championship CoachingÂ
In this weekâs episode of the Significant Coaching Podcast, we sit down with Coach Carol Jue, Head Womenâs Basketball Coach at Chapman University. With over 300 career wins and countless accolades, Carol is the all-time winningest coach in Chapmanâs history. Sheâs built a program that is a force to be reckoned with, leading the Panthers to nine NCAA Tournament appearances and multiple SCIAC titles.
In this episode, we cover:
- Carolâs Coaching Philosophy: The mindset behind her intense, full-court press and high-paced offense.
- Building Championship Teams: How she maximizes her players' potential and teaches them to play with aggressiveness, regardless of size.
- The Winning Culture at Chapman: What it takes to lead a team to success year after year.
- International Coaching Experiences: Carolâs unique perspective gained through international tours and experiences.
- Leadership & Resilience: The core qualities that make Carolâs coaching approach so impactful.
Whether youâre a coach, athlete, or fan, youâll walk away with valuable insights on leadership, team-building, and what it takes to make a significant impact on and off the court.
And donât forget to visit my website at coachmattrogers.com. You can purchase my book Significant Recruiting, read my weekly blog, and schedule a recruiting strategy session. If youâre a school or organization, you can also book me to speak on recruiting, leadership, and the journey to college.
Learn more and connect with Matt Rogers here: https://coachmattrogers.com/
Listen on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, iHeartRadio, and all your favorite podcast platforms.
Did you like what you heard and want more?
New Podcasts every week. Remember to subscribe and follow wherever you get your podcasts. Don't forget to leave a comment or recommend your favorite athlete, coach or leader to be on the show!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:16):
Welcome back to another episodeof The Significant Coaching
Podcast.
I'm your host Matt Rogers, andthis week we have an incredibly
special guest, someone I've notonly coached against, but deeply
respect for the way she elevatesher program and the game of
basketball.
Join us today is Coach CarolJew, the head women's basketball
coach at Chapman University inSouthern California.
(00:36):
In her 21 years leading thePanthers, Carol has become a
true powerhouse in the world ofNCAA Division three basketball.
With over 300 career wins, she'sChapman's all time winnings
coach, and for good reason.
Her ability to coach withintensity, discipline and
relentless energy is unmatched.
Now I have to say, Carol Jew isone of my favorite coaches to go
(00:59):
head to head with when I was atthe University of Laverne.
Preparing to face her teams wasalways a challenge.
Her explosive.
Full court press and high-pacedoffense are tough to simulate
and her players though rarelyover six feet tall, never, and I
mean, never get outmatched.
The way her teams play with suchaggressiveness and heart is
(01:19):
something you have to experiencefirsthand.
It is a testament to hercoaching acumen and her ability
to get the best out of everyplayer, no matter their size or
experience.
In addition to her success onthe court, Carol has led Chapman
to numerous accolades, includingseven appearances in the Sky Act
Tournament and nine NCAAdivision three playoff births.
(01:41):
She's coached five All WestRegion selections, and under her
leadership, Chapman has made anincredible mark as one of the
elite programs in the Westregion.
Perhaps one of the mostmemorable moments of her career
came in the 2017 18 season whenCarol and the Panthers won their
first ever kayak tournament.
Title Clinching IncredibleDouble Overtime Victory over
(02:02):
Claremont Muds Scripts that winkept off an unforgettable season
with a 15 in one conferencerecord and a 23 and five overall
Mark, the best Chapman has hadin over a decade.
Her coaching staff's recognitionas the scac Coaching staff of
the year was truly deserved.
Carol's accolades go beyond thecourt.
(02:23):
In 2009, she was honored as theonly Chinese American head
basketball coach in the NCAA bythe Chinese Historical Society
of Southern California.
She's also taken her teams oninternational tours to Taiwan,
where they played in prestigioustournaments like the Jones Cup
and the BLIA tournament.
So without further ado, I'mthrilled to welcome to the
(02:45):
podcast one of the mostrespected, dynamic and inspiring
coaches I've had the privilegeto compete against and someone
I'm very proud to call a friend.
Here's Coach Carol Jew.
Coach are you still the onlyChinese American head basketball
coach in all of ncaa?
No, there actually PomonaPitzer, she, she's Chinese.
(03:05):
I think there's more I.
There's more.
It was, but you were the onlyone for a long time, right?
I believe so.
That was amazing When they did afact check and they, honored
that I couldn't believe it.
but it was amazing to have themfact check that, but if you were
half and you didn't have thename maybe they couldn't find
it.
Yeah, but still, even just whatyou've accomplished and such a
(03:27):
great role model for the ChineseAmerican community and just how
you've run your program and howyou run your life and the leader
you are.
So it's just, it was just areally cool thing and I never
saw that before.
Thank you.
never realized until, someonetells you like, Hey, yeah, wow.
That's an amazing thing.
Yeah.
Because I just look as Hey, Ilove coaching.
(03:48):
Yeah.
I love playing.
I still try.
And you forget sometimes you'rethis, Public figure.
Yeah.
Yeah, you do.
We're teachers at heart and Iknow you are too.
You're walking into yourclassroom every day to do your
job and to do something youlove.
So it's you don't think aboutthe other things, yeah.
and day-to-day life,basketball's been a part of my
(04:09):
life, since 10 years old.
And the funny thing is my dadplayed till he was 80.
And then Covid hit and I couldsee that just took a toll on his
body.
And he loved to play.
It was a ball hog, did you saidhe's a ball hog?
Yeah, all he did was reallyshoot and funny'cause we would
play, family would playThanksgivings.
(04:30):
We all get together, my sisterand I played, we were playing
together and then so the familywould play and then my sons were
playing.
And every Thursday night hewould.
Have open gym.
And then before I moved outhere, I would go play with him
and I, of course had to be thepoint guard and get him the ball
so he could but every, he wasolder than everybody else, so he
was in his sixties, seventies,so he was always 10 years older.
(04:53):
They would let my dad travel alittle bit or whatever.
And I was like, it is funny towatch him just, but he enjoyed
it.
And then on Tuesday nights hewould play in Chinatown.
And so all his buddies, so he,every, and there was a while of
Thanksgiving where he wastraveling the world playing
basketball with his over 60,over 70, team.
(05:14):
that's so great.
did he ever do Senior Olympicsor anything like that?
No, but it was like that.
So there was one year, it was inChina one year.
It was in, a couple times it wasin China and the one time it was
in Seattle.
So half his team schedules.
To come back early.
And they made the championshipgame.
And my dad says I'm the only oneleft.
And none of one's gonna changetheir flight.
(05:35):
So they have to pick up players.
And then he goes, andessentially they don't win the
championship because you haveall subs.
And I said, who does that?
You guys should have playeduntil Sunday.
He goes, but he goes, normallywe don't win.
'cause they play against exOlympians.
From China.
And so it was really, amazing.
I hope I'm still playing at 80.
I hope so too.
Gosh, that's so great.
(05:56):
I had to give it up.
I threw out my back, I was stilltrying to play against college
kids in my forties, and I threwout my back and rolled my ankle
bad, and I was like, okay,that's it.
So I miss it, but my bodydoesn't miss it.
I know it's the aftermath.
I try to play in an over 40league so I can keep up.
Yeah.
And then I got into anotherleague where it's like all ages
(06:17):
and I'm like, just, okay, I'msitting screens and I'm just
gonna run a bit down the floor.
I wasn't the player you were.
I relied on my speed and myquickness and getting the, I was
a point guard, like you and.
I couldn't shoot.
So now I don't have any speedand I don't have any quickness
and I never could shoot.
So it's a waste for me to playwell.
I'm not playing guard, I'mplaying post.
So that's where they started tomove me, yeah.
(06:39):
I love now sitting screens andgetting somebody open.
Yeah.
That's about all I'm good foranymore.
one of the big things I wannatalk about is the Asian American
community, in SouthernCalifornia and in California in
general.
You did such a great job oftapping into that from a
recruiting standpoint.
you found those passionate kidsthat were athletic and, maybe
(07:01):
were a little undersized, buthad all the skill in the world.
I don't know if you rememberthis, but my wife is Japanese
and my kids are half Japanese.
So it was always such a greatthing for me to see.
To be able to show my daughterthe role models that were on the
floor and how hard they workedand how well they played
together.
(07:21):
Has that been intentionalthroughout your career?
Not really.
but I'll tell you, I played insc.
I.
And I could tell you there was ahandful of Asians in the league.
And we knew who we were.
And it's funny that one of'emplayed at Oxy, Sharon Wa and we
became teammates in the Asiancommunity, Asian leagues.
Yeah.
And we'd laugh and we'd talk,she would talk about oh yeah I
(07:42):
was wondering how it felt liketo play with, if you played, if
I played for Jody Burton.
Okay.
Or we just talk about that.
But it was just something laterthat I said.
Okay.
If I it wasn't intentional, butit's something that I knew.
Yeah.
And it wasn't until a parenttold me and I was, assistant and
interim coach at Claremontbefore I came to Chapman.
(08:03):
Yeah.
This dad was like, man, you gavemy daughter a chance.
Yeah.
And I was like, what?
He goes, you gave her anopportunity.
She would've never playedcollege.
Yeah.
And I didn't think of that.
I was just thinking I wanted toplay college because.
We lost in the second round ofCIF where I was at Monte Bell
High, and I had the itch.
(08:24):
I didn't wanna stop playing, soI walk on the Cal State LA as a
D two and of course I don't getto play.
And I'm like, okay, I gotta gosomewhere else.
I wanna play.
Yeah.
So I ended up at Claremont,there was that community.
And then it was funny, I had anassistant, I had been at Chapman
for 10 years and she was like,oh, I really like this kid who's
five foot and she happened to beAsian.
It just morphed that way.
(08:46):
And then I started going thatway.
'cause then people were tellingme, Hey, there's a kid here.
Here's a kid, here's all theconnections.
So I would say the first 10years it was all word of mouth.
And they happened to be Asian.
Yeah.
and because they've been playingsince they were five.
Then their parents played.
So there was this niche that Ijust fell into.
(09:08):
Yeah.
what a great thing though.
So many of those kids are beingtaught, and I don't know if it's
still the same way, but theywere being taught the
fundamentals.
They were taught how to defendoff the ball.
Where to pressure, when topressure, how to block out.
So you were getting those kids,you obviously raising them and
training them in the right way,but you were getting a lot of
(09:29):
kids that really knew how toplay the game.
Yeah, and it was funny becausethen you start to say okay, you
have an opportunity to play.
and like one of the kids who wasfive feet tall, Lauren Katama,
who ended up being a hall offamer for us at five feet.
And then she's, head coach atNorth Torrance High School.
And, you know they're winningthere too, right?
Yeah.
So it was like looking at herand she said, her mother had
(09:53):
told me this, that she realizedshe could play with the bigger
kids.
'cause she was smarter.
And impeccable IQ extension ofme.
Yeah.
And where her dad and I stilllaugh about it today and yeah.
You didn't have to stand up thatmuch because she would help run
it.
She was so smart.
Yeah.
And then it was to makeeverybody else better.
When you have one player thatcan make everybody else better.
(10:16):
Yeah.
Hey, just catch my ball andshoot it.
It is.
Or it's infectious?
Because then if one or two orthree are playing D, you hope
all five will play D and theneverybody's buying into it.
And that's what it was.
So like here I'm 50 something,I'm still playing.
Yeah.
So you had to find the kids thatwanted to go to another level.
And Lauren was one of'em.
(10:37):
Are you finding that harder andharder to find those kids that
just are gym rats and love it?
Yeah, I think now that there'sso many other things to do,
COVID had a little bit to it.
We can't coach the way we usedto.
that's a tough thing.
Like I wanna be hardnosed, butreally it's bigger than
basketball.
(10:57):
But when you're in it and you'recoaching these kids, and my
decimal of my voice goes up.
That's okay, I had to recruit.
Come by and she came all theway, from back east.
And I think she, because I said,you have to, like how I coach
you don't, I don't want anysurprises.
And I think when I made fun, orI wrote left or right on my
(11:22):
kids' hand.
'cause I said, don't forget shedoes that.
And I think I was like, okay,this is not for me.
And it's true.
So it's funny how the reallygreat programs like you have at
Chapman, where the coaches arereally clear.
Hey, this is who we are.
Do your research.
if this is the only place yougotta play and that's why you're
(11:43):
coming here, you might wannarethink that.
watch me on YouTube.
'cause you might not like theway I coach, but it's funny that
people only see me those twohours or when I used to coach my
boys.
Yeah.
We run the same plays.
And people were like, oh, she'smean.
And then they talk to me andthey go, oh, you're pretty nice.
I was like, that's just twohours.
(12:05):
That's right.
It's your fire.
it's a part Of the journey thatI think is getting lost in
sports.
It's so important that you learnhow to hear a coach's words and
not their tone and learn how toovercome that adversity I might
have to sit a little bit, Imight have to watch a little
bit.
it might take me a year to learnthe press that coach wants me to
(12:26):
learn and the defense coachwants me to learn.
If I'm patient.
Good things are good.
you would hope.
and that's why I always try totell the parents let us coach
trust.
but then the kids gotta do thework and they gotta be honest
about their work.
but if parents or your friendsare in the way of saying you
should be playing, you should bestarting, it's just okay, but
you gotta understand what we'redoing.
(12:47):
'cause I really would not do it.
I wouldn't play a kid because Idon't like them.
I wanna be liked.
You wanna win.
Yeah.
We wanna win.
And so sometimes it takes awhile.
I remember a kid at Cal State LAgoing, Hey, parents said, I
should be starting, I should beplaying.
I go, but they're not atpractice.
And then I was like, we put youin the game.
You have 3001 minute.
(13:08):
And so you try to explain that.
And then one, become a coach,and then they come back to you
10 years later and go, oh, I getit.
My blog this week is exactlythat.
This is how a, an athletethinks, and this is how a coach
thinks.
Coach, I'm making 40% of mythrees.
I'm benching 20 pounds more.
I'm faster.
You still can't find your man intransition.
(13:29):
Yeah.
You still get screened way tooeasily.
You don't block outconsistently.
And that's how we think.
Exactly.
Effort.
Effort, energy, consistency.
Yeah.
Pace.
And that's why I said you gottaput the effort in defense and
you have to show that you wannaplay defense.
And even if you're not sure, Ithink it's energy out there.
(13:53):
And it's not fun when half theteam's doing it and half the
team's not doing it.
Especially the way your programworks.
you can't afford to have one ortwo, not follow through.
it looks like everybody'sconnected by a string the way
it's supposed to be.
it's all smoke and mirrorscoach.
No, it's not.
I've been waiting 15 years tohave this conversation with you.
(14:13):
can we talk press?
Oh, absolutely.
I love the way you coach thepress.
I love the way your team's play.
I hate having to coach againstit.
I don't have the nightmaresanymore preparing for you.
So it's been good.
I've had good 15 years.
I sleep a lot better when Idon't have to face your teeth.
But talk to me about thefoundation.
Of where you start with yourpress.
(14:34):
'cause I don't know what youcall it, but for me it's a ball
press.
It just, it's supposed to be aknown, right?
As soon as you score, you'renot, there's no time to high
five.
That's right there.
You just gotta turn around andsay, okay, we're trying to get a
five second call here.
No one likes pressure.
(14:54):
No one does.
No, I don't care if you're thebest ball handler.
And the best iq.
and we've had people beat us, ontheir press, and then you had to
lay it off, right?
But the whole thing is, get thefive second call, get in and get
the ten second call, and thenhow much time do you have left
to really run an offense becauseyou've been through all that
pressure Make them go to theirweekend, make'em go to a
(15:19):
sideline.
'cause when we had both theChristina and Linda Lee, two
sisters That went for sideline,the other one.
Turn them.
Turn them, and then cause aturnover.
Without fouling.
And so if you have thosebeliefs.
People are gonna rotate, peopleare gonna take chances.
Where I think for the longesttime it was like, okay, you just
(15:41):
guard your men and you're good.
And if they don't score, that'sokay.
But rev up the game, right?
And I wanted to, I played for ateam, and this is where the
foundation I played for, an Asiateam called the Imperials.
They were all ex-collegeplayers, 10 years older than me.
So when they went to party, Icouldn't go'cause I was 19.
(16:01):
They taught me a work ethic.
Yeah.
Like I was sitting on the benchon a rec team and I vowed to
okay, I'm gonna work harder.
Yeah.
And here I'm a post on theirteam.
I'm slow as mud.
And then, at Claremont I'mconsidered like I'm pretty good
as a point guard.
Then you go here, I got pickedleft and right.
So you learned how to playPoint.
(16:22):
Yeah.
And you have to play gooddefense.
And you had to rotate you.
You're not just guarding yourperson.
It's full court and it's causingturnovers.
It's so hard.
At least for me, it's so hard toteach that to an 18-year-old.
Does it start with recruitingfor you where you're looking for
(16:43):
certain things or do you justknow I'm bringing this kid in
with skills and an attitude andenergy?
I can teach her.
Fun, the fundamentals of whatwe're trying to do.
Where does this start?
I really think the fit is thatyou gotta like us, what we're
doing.
And I'm gonna mold you.
this is the thing that I startedto get and I started to listen
(17:06):
to people that would play for melater.
I didn't know I had it in me.
Yeah.
Believe that.
you pushed me to another leveland now I'm in the workforce.
I wouldn't, I don't know if Iknew I had that.
Yeah.
Like we just had another hall ofFamer, Kimmi Taca, she was
around when I was coaches.
Yes.
10th 2011, 12, yeah.
(17:27):
Just became a hall of famer.
Great.
And at five six, and here's thething.
I had my assistants finder andcould shoot had, was athletic
and.
She comes to a game and then inher mind, I'm not good enough.
I don't find this out till hersenior year and we're heading to
(17:48):
Whitman for the playoffs.
Her mom told me she wasn't gonnaplay.
She was gonna come here and say,thanks, coach two, I got, I'm
here, And I'm quitting.
She ended up playing as afreshman and, impeccable shooter
could grade her own shot.
I found out that she didn'tthink she was good enough.
And then, she starts the nextthree years and starts to get
(18:13):
confident.
And like I said, you gottademand the ball.
And she could jump out of thegym.
She believed in the defense.
And I don't think there was asingle person she played with
that didn't like her.
Because she didn't yell atanybody until she's okay, gimme
the ball.
And stomped her foot like Iwould do with my heels and asked
for it.
but Kimmy learned, how to playand how everybody respected her.
(18:35):
Everyone loved her.
because you know what?
She just worked hard.
And that's a testimony to beinga Hall of Famer.
But here's someone that said tome, I would've been okay going
to a uc and becoming a physicaltherapist.
She still became a physicaltherapist, and is.
But she played really goodbasketball.
Yeah.
(18:55):
And she was the comradery,everything, right?
Yeah.
Here's, I feel like that's theopportunity I'm giving.
And here's somebody that playedat a small school, LaSalle High
School in Pasadena, or Arcadiain that area, and, was okay up
and down the floor.
(19:16):
I'm gonna score 20, but I,pushed'em to another level like
they didn't even know they had Ijust push and she didn't like to
get yelled at and she'llremember the times I did yell at
her.
She goes, oh, remember that timeat Redlands?
I go, yeah, I remember because Isaid, Kimmy, come on, we need
you.
It's our culture.
It's don't cause waves.
Don't get yelled at.
If you do get yelled, you betterfind a way.
(19:37):
Yeah.
To not get yelled at.
And so here's another hall offamer.
So is this who you were in thebeginning?
have you changed?
have you gotten more confidentor changed your mentality, your
authenticity?
Or have you always been thisversion of you?
(19:58):
Honestly, I'm not sure.
I would say that, yeah, I'mhardnosed It's funny when people
describe me no nonsense.
too serious.
And I don't look at myself thatway.
But when I do coach, I wannawin.
I'm not out there.
To just be out there.
But I know that I've changed alot of my coaching style because
(20:20):
can't cuss as much.
Or you gotta say things and ifyou're going to get on someone,
also tell'em what they're doing.
Great.
And then talk to'em afterwards.
because I always coached by menand the men that coached me,
they would be hard.
Yeah.
Then I remember in high schoolcrying one time going do you not
(20:41):
like me?
And he goes, no, it's what wealways hear.
We're hardest, on the best ones.
We are the one with the mostpotential.
And you get that and you wantGod, you just don't want them to
just be okay.
I want them to be great.
And as the years went by andlistening to alums tell me,
yeah, I just hated this, but.
(21:03):
Or make fun of me because I'myelling.
Or I did a wedding video andthey're like, coach, can you do
the joy?
Come here.
Or even a old high school kidgoes, I still remember when you
said, So it resonates.
And I go, I felt bad.
But I think I've had to tone itdown.
'cause it's just a differenterror.
It is.
(21:25):
it's hard for me, I've beencoaching high school a little
bit, helping here and there andit's just, I love the game so
much and it's so hard to findkids that love the game anymore.
It's like, why are you playing?
I like to shoot.
Okay, there's A-Y-M-C-A overhere.
Go shoot.
There's more to this.
You gotta love it.
(21:45):
it's gotta be important to you.
And it's hard for me to coachkids that don't see it that way.
and then coaching our own kids.
Coaching my two boys.
Since second grade or evenyounger.
I taught them about passing theball.
defense, and they're just ascompetitive.
when my older one ended up notplaying his senior year because.
(22:06):
His high school decided to bringall transfers in I said, oh,
heck no.
My younger one's not goingthere.
I had taught them, I didn't knowboys basketball really, you
gotta be a great shooter or theydon't really wanna play you.
But I found a coach in myyounger son, Carson's coach,
that he valued defense and heturned my son Carson into one of
(22:29):
the best defense players I'veever seen Did not let their best
Score.
Yeah.
At the highest level.
And it's funny'cause people saidwhy don't your kids play
college?
And I said, you know what?
I found it like a collegeprogram since second grade.
Yeah.
And I coached a lot of the kids.
I was trying to prep them forhigh school.
And some appreciated, some werelike, ah, I can't stand this.
(22:51):
She just keeps yelling at me.
But it was more like I try tocontrol it to say, watch what's
happening.
Yeah.
And I think at the end of theday, it was, it's hard to be in
the stands as a parent.
It is.
But I also trusted Carson's highschool coach.
Good.
He was good.
That's great.
That's so great to hear.
So I found somebody, except itis funny, a shout out to, coach
(23:14):
Meyer.
I said, whereas alike except Ihave hair, he doesn't, I love
it.
It's, that is where the heart ofthe game comes for me.
When you get to teach somethingand you can see them grow and
that they're growing past whatyou said, past what they thought
they potentially even was.
(23:34):
I feel like that's our job,isn't it?
Exactly.
That it's bigger than Basco.
And this is what I tell everyrecruit, you're gonna come here.
I wanna know what you're doing10 years from now.
Yeah.
I'm still gonna weddings I findout, things are happening in
their life.
Yeah.
one day when I looked up at thestands and I said, wow, a lot of
(23:55):
alums are here today.
Yeah.
And I said, wow, this is great.
They were there for a purpose.
I had no idea.
And I guess I was gonna get acertain how many wins and it my
assistant had, and our SID putthat together, like bringing
people there.
And I said, you know what?
This is what it's all about.
And taking pictures with themand showing how many years it's
(24:18):
been.
Yeah.
And even when I was an assistantat Cal LA, I still see those
kids too, and they're havingkids or they're.
Whatever is happening or they'rehaving a crisis with a partner
and they're like, okay, comeover and we talk till one, two
in the morning.
It's still happening.
Yeah.
Yep.
And that's why it's more thanbasketball, that we had that
(24:39):
time in basketball with thetrust, the love, the heartache.
Yeah.
The emotional times togetherthat she's not just thinking
about how are you gonna help mewin?
Yeah.
How are you gonna help me win inlife?
Yes.
No, It doesn't.
All right.
You're making me go away fromwhere I wanted to be.
(24:59):
I wanna talk about this press ofyours.
Okay.
Because teaching kids how toread and react and watch the
game, and know when to go trap,when to get to the middle, when
to rotate back, when to pick upthat loose player.
it's impossible for a lot ofcoaches.
And your kids just seem to ownit.
(25:20):
They own it from, it seems like.
how do you start that?
How do you get those kids toreact and rotate?
Like I said, you go fromoffensive drill, and let's just
say we do a five man weave.
And then it could become a threeon two.
So you gotta designate and say,okay, as soon as that ball goes
through the hoop, two of youguys become defenders.
(25:43):
And then we bring a thirddefender running down saying,
Hey, I'm your eyes And then Igo, your job is to try to get a
five second call.
It's hard to do, but when you doit in a game, it's just wow.
But that's the rotation.
so you gotta Kick the fear outof them because they don't know
they're questioning it.
And you just gotta go, just go.
(26:05):
it's like letting go in life,Yeah.
So you just gotta go.
Just go and we'll rotate foreach other because you still got
four other players in the back.
Yeah.
And you have two other teammatesthat are supposed to rotate for
you.
So really, that's where itstarts, is just going from an
offense and then to a defense,shift your gear.
And then that's why I was sayingthere's no time to high five.
(26:25):
So you gotta work on wanting tomove and rotate and it's really
all up here.
So you gotta do that early onand just drill it.
'cause really, when I look atit, by the time the juniors and
seniors, they're like, just go.
They're apprehensive whenthey're freshmen and sophomores
(26:46):
still.
But as juniors and seniors,you're like, okay, this is what
we're trying to do.
You just have to have that guts,the grit to go.
the whole thing is communicationtoo.
do we double?
Do we run and jump?
And sometimes you gotta justtell them.
that's why I'm always chattingon the floor, not with the ref.
(27:06):
'cause I don't know how to talkto a ref really.
I'm telling them, go.
Why not?
And then you try to show it onfilm because you're like, whoa.
a lot of it is scared to go Doyou, there's that fear the
consistency of what you're doingevery day get rid of that fear?
Is it you saying just go and theseniors are saying, just go,
(27:27):
it's a belief system inanything.
And then you just gotta drill itand you just gotta.
Try to get them to understandthat'cause it's funny'cause I
had a freshman tell me last yearthis doesn't work.
And I said, trust it.
Just do it.
And here's my assistant giving adissertation at halftime.
And then I said, so we get backin it and then she gets a steal
(27:51):
and then something else happens.
And I said, oh, it doesn't work.
It's making them crazy.
Yes.
You found ways to break it?
We did.
It was rare and few and farbetween.
But most coaches when they runanything like a run and jump or
a ball press, typically you havethat kid in the back who's six
foot six one a rim defender,force a bad layup, force a
(28:14):
turnover back there.
But I don't remember you everhaving anybody over five, nine.
Yeah that's the one thing I havethe hardest time getting six
footers to come here.
But the thing is, and now inthis day and age, they're not
going to the hoop.
They're taking threes.
and it's hard for a post to go,okay, now it was a two on one
(28:34):
and I said, stay out'causethey're shooting threes and
making'em.
Sometimes they're gonna score alayup on us, right?
But you know what?
You gotta take those because Ilike the greater good of being
able to put pressure and makingthe point guard have to keep
second guessing.
Yeah, especially if they're thepoint guard that's used to
playing 37, 38 minutes per gameand all of a sudden they're
(28:57):
having to exert 10 times theenergy for that amount.
The biggest compliment I evergot was I was coaching my son
and I recognized the girl'sscore keeping and she played at
viola.
I go, you look familiar.
And she goes, you look familiar.
And then I said, oh, I coach achat.
She goes, oh, you're a press.
And I went, oh.
And I remember her and I said,oh yeah, you were really good.
(29:17):
She goes, and you didn't let metouch the ball.
And I said, okay, we're doingsomething.
It's such a fun way to play ifyou can get over your insecurity
about how fast it is.
Because yes, we may give up lap.
Yes, we may give up a three, butwe are making them go deep into
their bench.
We're wearing them out and atthe end of the game when they're
(29:40):
playing, their eighth, ninthplayer and they're used to only
playing seven and their top fiveis exhausted with four foul.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The game should be over.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It should be.
It is funny.
One time we forced 50 turnovers,but I was very conscientious of
the score, because you don'twanna be a jerk about that.
(30:01):
Yeah.
And then I looked at, and thecoach got really mad.
I'm not gonna play you everagain.
And I was like you know it, westill made it respectable.
I was 20 right.
But, we wanted everybody to,practice it because, your bench
doesn't get to practice it.
That's right.
In practice it's one thing to doit in a game, but it's hard to
mimic what we do if we do itright.
(30:24):
It's so hard, especially if youonly have a day or two to
practice before you get to you.
Yeah.
Trying to run a scout againstthat it's so hard because
there's no, it's not afoundation like a 1 3, 1.
Or a diamond press.
It is.
And communication.
If those are the things that youcan do it I'm gonna say really
(30:46):
that first 10 years, thosegroups talked.
Yeah.
They made me look good.
It's the encouragement you gavethem.
It's the independence and thefreedom to say, just go it.
And, I get calls about, I coachthe system for so many years and
coaches will call me and say,Matt, I don't have any size.
We don't have a lot of talent.
We think we're gonna run thesystem.
(31:07):
And I go, if you can run thesystem without any size and not
a lot of talent, why wouldn'tyou run it when you have some
size.
Yeah, it's the same with yourpress.
If you can get kids to work hardand run the floor and talk to
each other, man, it's so muchfun.
It is like you gotta be ballmagnets.
(31:27):
That's the whole thing.
Yeah.
I think for young coaches thatwanna play at your pace and play
with your intensity, so oftenthey give up so fast because
they did give up a couplelay-ups.
It's such a 40 minute mentality.
Yeah.
It's a grand purpose of yougotta tire them out.
Yeah.
(31:47):
and that's really the wholething is they can't make those
decisions at the end of thegame.
they don't have any legs left.
No, they're missing layups.
they're short on their threes,they're short on their free
throws.
anybody that wants to play thegame and coach the game with
their hair on fire.
I need to sit, watch you playme, because every kid wants it.
(32:09):
Now it's, the idea is, do Iwanna work that hard?
Yes.
You're right.
do I really wanna be in thistype of shape.
Because your kids are always insuch great shape.
let's transition here a littlebit.
I wanna talk, get into yourrecruiting a little bit.
I know you use your assistancereally well and what is your
mindset?
(32:29):
Every year when it comes to yourclass, does it start with what
your returners, what you knowyou got coming back, where your
weaknesses are?
Are you filling positions?
What is your mindset when you'recharting what you wanna bring in
the next year?
It's, it changes every year,but, we're always looking for a
six footer.
Because I'm an inside outsidecoach still.
(32:52):
I like, and you gotta findsomeone that's gonna want to put
their back To the basket.
Yeah.
And that's not easy to findanymore.
So I'm still looking for those.
And you always gotta find theguards that have that pace.
The energy.
'cause you gotta still findthose players.
there was a year where 10 was tocome back and nine did it.
(33:14):
Boy was I, it was scrambling.
I bet that was like my thirdyear.
And, I had recruited, I had abunch of JC transfers, and then
I got two out of my stretchingclass that played high school.
So we had a team of nine.
We went six and five.
(33:35):
During, after Christmas, we hadjust come back from Seattle and
one kid says, you know what?
I'm homesick.
I'm going back to Ohio.
And so we asked one player tocome back.
After Christmas we, we rolled17th straight.
Wow.
It was before you got there.
(33:55):
We played Laverne in the firstNCAA playoffs and with that team
of nine we rolled 17 straight.
Crazy.
And we're down 17 actuallyagainst Laverne in the first
round playoffs.
This is when we're independent.
We weren't yet in theconference.
Ended up winning that game atovertime.
Lauren Caama has 30 points, 17for 18 free throws.
(34:21):
Wow.
Her junior year.
And then they send us toBrownwood, Texas where the
population is 20,000, 5,000 whenwas at the game.
Crazy.
Ended up losing by 20 something.
And at 10 minutes left in thegame, said we'd like to thank
the Lady Panthers for coming.
All the way to Brownwood, Texasyourself.
I was like, this game's notover, but we didn't, of course.
(34:43):
so that was a humblingexperience for me when nine
players didn't come back.
And then after I, I haven't hadthat problem.
Chapman sells itself.
I have a wealth of people thatrecommend players to me.
Okay.
So in the last five, six years,I've said to people, okay, you
gotta know if I'm your fit.
(35:03):
I might not be.
I don't want you to come here.
And I've had several people comeand it's just you know what?
In Oregon we don't have a shockclock.
I don't really wanna playdefense.
No offense to you, but I don'twanna play.
Oh, she said probably not gonnalast a year anyways.
Yeah.
these wheels are turning orYeah.
You're just hard.
I don't know what it's like inhigh school and you're together
the whole time because you wantto be, but I, we're only
(35:26):
together right?
Six months.
That's right.
So we gotta get things done.
So for me, recruiting, theygotta know.
I really encourage them to watchour team.
I ask'em when they come topractice.
I ask'em to talk to our players.
I have an elite camp.
I've got the last few years, 50%of'em there.
Good.
So I'm looking for kids thathave energy that they're gonna
(35:46):
have to have on the court, thatthey're gonna wanna talk and
really the biggest thing is theygotta be good people.
And I don't know that for afact.
Until you get'em.
Yeah.
Until they get on campus.
But I keep saying, I can'tguarantee anything.
I'm not gonna guarantee playingtime.
I'm not gonna guarantee a spot ateam.
You have to like what you havehere.
Yeah.
Academically.
(36:07):
And I have to say it because,I'll have, a kid will say you
promised me.
I go, oh no.
I never promised.
Yeah.
Because I would be lying to you.
Yeah.
I had two conversations with twopeople who already got into
Chatman just yesterday, and Ijust said.
Everybody's coming back and Iwould hate for you to say, yeah,
come and I don't have a spot.
And I can't guarantee that.
(36:28):
Someone might quit along theway.
I've had some injuries, somepeople last minute say, Hey, I
don't wanna do this.
Which is okay.
Yeah.
But they have to fit, meaningthey gotta wanna work.
And I keep telling'em, you haveto push yourself and I'm gonna
push you.
I'm gonna get on you is becauseI really want you to be at
another level.
I wouldn't be doing my job.
(36:49):
So that's my biggest spiel.
I stick to it as much as I can.
you have to really watch how weare and you have to like what
yeah.
Because it's not justbasketball, but it's family and
family doesn't always get along.
And so a lot of friends thathelp recruit know.
(37:11):
What the type of player I'mlooking for.
Absolutely.
And when you find those peopleyou keep going back to the
because they understand.
They understand you.
And the parents have tounderstand,'cause you end up
having them and you have to say,whoa, you gotta let me coach.
How far out are you recruiting?
Are you focused?
I'm sure you're 25.
Class is pretty wrapped up.
We're hoping they come becauseremember at our level, we don't
(37:32):
offer the scholarships.
Yeah.
So you've got your, the onesthat have signed their financial
aid and No, not actually.
It's been tough with financialaid, but I do have everyone
coming back.
I have, a point guard startingpoint coming back from ACL
surgery, so she'll be back Nice.
And someone with a back.
So we do have everybody comingback.
It's tough to say because.
(37:52):
Chapman, like again, sellsitself.
Yeah.
And you get all these letterslike, Hey, I wanna try, I wanna
walk.
And when they come and they seethe timing of it all, sometimes
they just stop like that yearwith nine players just saying,
Hey, I gotta do other things.
Yeah.
I've been going all the way downto now, 27.
(38:14):
There's been a good skill outthere.
I was just talking to a juniorlast night and I think she'd be
a great fit for us'cause she,it's about team and she likes to
play defense and she's five 10,which is great for us.
she's going into the statetournament this weekend and
luckily for now livestream, it'seasier Than trying to get
(38:34):
somewhere.
it's just finding the rightpeople in the right fit.
Every coach has gotta do it theway that feels.
And you've been doing it longenough that you know what your
timing looks like.
Yeah.
I'm sure if you see a sophomorethat's really good you'll say
something to them or saysomething to their coach.
Like I just lost a five 11 girlto one of the Oregon schools,
and I thought, oh, the girl ranthe floor.
(38:56):
Very coachable.
And she decided to go somewhereelse.
I was hoping she'd come and Iwas like, you would've been
stealing all these balls off thepress.
That's right.
It's a killer.
So then it gets just, I get myheart broken.
And one year we had a six threekid from China who lived in.
Yucca Valley and kept, itdeposited and everything.
(39:16):
And last minute she goes, my dadwants me to go to a D one in
Louisiana.
I was like, you could reallyhelp us.
She ended up graduating.
I think she got her school paidfor, but I don't think she
played as much as she could atour school.
So it breaks my heart.
recruiting is really hard forme.
It always breaks your heart.
Yeah.
That's part of the game.
(39:36):
You're not gonna get every kid,but, we invest into these kids
'cause we wanna be around'em forthe next four years we see their
potential.
Yes.
how many kids are you carryingtypically on your roster?
last year was like 13.
This year was like 16.
So I try to keep it between.
13 to 16 because there's timeswhere there's injuries.
and it happened in ourconference where, I saw five
(39:57):
kids out on one team, and therewas only six on the bench.
That was my three years atLaverne.
everybody was in street clubs.
Yeah.
It's still happening like that.
I think the biggest thing thatI've seen this year with our
conference Is the injuries?
when we lost our point guard,that just put us in a little bit
of tailspin and we didn't haveour center.
(40:18):
That was the person that wouldbe communicating boxing out.
everybody in our conference hada major injury like an ACL tear.
Crazy.
And you could see how ittrickles down.
I would say most of the timewe're always healthy, but we
always had an ACL tear here andthere.
But then it meant an opportunityfor someone to step up.
(40:39):
it's different when you'reyoung.
You can bounce back.
How many do you play Every game?
about 10, 10, 11.
With the pace we play.
It doesn't always happen thatway, but we try.
Like with our point guard thisyear, a freshman got to play and
she played great defense for us.
like I said, it's anotheropportunity.
You take'em when they come.
our sophomores saying, just bepatient, but you better be ready
(41:01):
to play.
Because you don't want to, and Iwon't say it.
Poop in your pants.
I like how you pull back for thepodcast, and don't say the
really way that you'll, you'dsay it, maybe that or, we've
had, like I said, we've had kidsand so yes, you have to know
when to, when not to.
(41:22):
Coach, I can pick your brain allday.
I've gotta get to Californiabetween October and February and
just if you'll let me, I justwant to come and watch a couple
practices.
Would love to have you, Matt,always classy and very
respectful and when I read, whenyou were writing your stuff and
I found my name and I was like,let's do's writing about me.
(41:42):
How cool is that?
I've been coaching for 25 years,26, whatever, no, 28 years.
Like you, we've been doing thisa long time and there's coaches
that we go up against that we'relike, gosh, I.
They're doing something sounique, so special.
The preparation is so hard andfor me, you're one of those Hall
of Famers, there's four or fiveHall of Fame coaches that I'm
(42:04):
like, gosh, there's so much Ilearned from you.
Playing against your teams,watching all the film, getting
my girls ready to play againstyour girls.
It was just always a greatchallenge for me.
It was always so much fun, eventhough I usually walked out with
my tail between my legs, but itwas, there's just something
(42:26):
special about what you do, thatit's important for me that.
People get, you get the creditfor that.
'cause it's really great whatyou do.
I appreciate that.
Thank you.
It's such an honor.
the respect that we have foreach other when we coached
against each other.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
means a lot.
'cause this wasn't gonna be myfirst gig.
I didn't ever plan to coach.
(42:46):
Yeah.
I was an accountant.
I wanted to make money Turned tomy husband at 20 something years
old and said, can I coach?
Didn't think I would stick, butI have to say that I'm really
fortunate that I can, and I hopeI could keep doing this for a
long time.
Our profession is better becauseof you, and you're so nice.
(43:09):
I just happened to have oursecond child in the middle of my
last season of Laverne, and Ijust, couldn't do it anymore.
I wasn't finding the joy becauseI felt like I was being a bad
dad, I wasn't there for them.
So when I get to see what you'redoing and how you continue to do
it.
You're such a role model forcoaches and families need to
understand this is how it'ssupposed to be, what you do and
(43:32):
how you do it.
and when you allow a coach toteach and mentor the way you do
it, your child is gonna be somuch better for the rest of
their life and we've lost you.
Hope I appreciate that.
You have to have the rightpartner, right?
Yes.
That's gonna let you do that.
You do.
and I have to thank my husband,Kevin, that.
You don't, you know it, it's,you're not working.
(43:54):
You're working too hard.
And when it was during season,he took care of everything.
And that let me be a coach.
And I'm really fortunate that Ifound somebody that we could do
it together.
And he loves basketball as muchas I do because here we watch
both our sons and after theyplay the game and he films it,
we go home and watch it.
That's crazy.
It's so much fun.
(44:14):
We miss it now that they're bothout of high school, so Yeah.
Yeah.
we're really trying, that's whatit's become, I'm a volleyball
dad.
I'm in a volleyball gym everynight and every weekend and just
loving the heck out of it and.
Just want her to learn how todeal with adversity and learn
how to figure out who she is.
Coach, I, again, I could talk toyou all day.
I've got a couple questions Iask every coach.
(44:35):
Okay.
And I just want to get yourthoughts on this.
If I put you in a room and,let's say you're in an
auditorium with 300 families thequestion is.
How do we get started?
if I wanna play for a coach Jewat Chapman, or if I wanna play
college basketball, where do Istart?
what advice do you give familiesabout recruitment?
what path is the healthiest wayfor families to get started?
(44:57):
I think you get, email, it'sfunny'cause I'm helping somebody
that, I coach a boy, who playedat Bosco.
St.
John Bosco, and he played withmy son and he's looking for a
college to play for next year.
And some coaches say, Hey, waitfor them to come to you.
But in our 20 something years oftechnology, I think you gotta go
(45:20):
to them too.
I think you gotta do both,right?
And I found some gems throughwatching video, so reach out to
coaches.
And show some videos.
And I always say this when, atour camps and when we have,
clinics, one highlight is good,but not 20 But I wanna see a
full game.
(45:41):
Because I'm watching yourmannerisms.
How you interact with yourteammates, how you interact with
your coach and what you're doingon the bench.
That's right.
You right.
If you're taking your shoes offbefore the game's ending, maybe
not come to us.
That's true.
Like I even tell our players, Igo, I'm watching you guys on the
bench.
You're not cheering for yourteam.
I don't think you should be onthis team.
(46:01):
So technology does help.
You should reach out to thecoach and especially, I have
some kids saying I got a GPA ofa 3.2.
That's real tough to come in tochat.
And you might not get any money.
Merit money.
So you have to think about thosethings.
and I did have a kid one year asa senior, was like a 2.9.
And she goes no one told me Ishould get good grades.
(46:23):
I go, I wish.
and I had an eighth grader manyyears ago.
what advice do you have to me?
I said, you know what?
Get the highest grades you can.
So then eight years later, She'sright there, Hailey.
And she goes, coach, I rememberwhat you told me.
I go, what did I tell you?
You told me to get good grades.
I have a 4.0.
I go, great.
(46:43):
You wanna come?
Yeah.
And she says, no, I need to getaway.
I was like, okay.
So I called two places, aMinnesota school, and I called
University of Dallas.
Dallas played, she played therefour years, started, became a
physical therapist.
That's awesome.
So I said, if this kid listenedto me, maybe hundreds more.
Might be the same thing.
(47:04):
And to this day I see them and Isaid, you are my story.
Hay.
Yeah.
that would be my first thing isif you want something, you gotta
seek it out, then you gotta comeon campus and then you gotta
figure out is it the right fit?
and for us, can you afford it?
it's simple.
It's practical, it's logicaladvice.
because once you understand thatthis is a business, it's an
institution of education, butit's a business.
(47:26):
if Chapman's not making profit,it's hard to pay your teachers
and your coaches and pay thewater bill.
They're gonna give the money tothe kids.
Have proven that they can come,they can go to college and do
well.
Look at we're, we are havingsome of our state schools in
California taking awayathletics.
Sonoma State and then I thinkSan Francisco state's taken away
(47:47):
three teams.
It's crazy.
Is there a piece of significantadvice you'd share with our
audience that doesn't even haveto do with basketball?
It doesn't have to do withsports, but is there something
that you find yourself sharing?
I just think that find the bestversion of you.
like I said, when I listened tothe alum say, I had no idea.
(48:09):
I had this in me.
Okay, so what was I doing tohelp you with that?
That every day we came topractice, there's a comradery.
So if you're gonna find the bestversion and you're not afraid to
mess up and what people willsay, failures, I don't like
that.
It's like challenges, yeah.
you gotta go through the hardstuff to get to the best stuff.
(48:33):
Totally.
And it's never gonna be the bestyet.
Yeah, there's always somethingbetter.
But if you're not enjoying thejourney and going through the
process, you're never gonna getto where you're supposed to be.
Yeah.
So I learned this phraseyesterday in a master's
leadership class.
Successes.
Successes in motion.
Instead of saying failures like.
(48:54):
We're going through, we'regetting our success in motion.
Yeah.
and I had said something to theclass, I said words matter.
So I don't like to say failures.
I don't like to say weakness.
So I say challenges becauseYeah, words do matter and the
brain doesn't know if it's realor not.
You know what?
Feed your brain with all thepositive things that you can
say.
Especially when those damnreferees keep showing up.
(49:16):
Oh, and then they're not lookingat the same things we're looking
at.
Coach.
It's such an honor to have youand talk to you.
It's a great honor to know thatyou're a friend, and I hope you
keep doing this forever, tillyou're at least, 80.
You gotta beat your dad.
But, this was a great honor forme and I really appreciate it
because it's a tough time rightnow, and this probably helped
(49:38):
more than anything else thanyou'll ever know.
I'm glad that our.
Circles have met.
And when you come back toSouthern Cal, please bring the
family.
I will, we will host you andwe'll take you to a great
dinner.
Trust me.
because with us it's about food.
It's all about food for us too.
So it would be an honor coach.
So good luck.
You've got me, if you ever needanything, I'm a phone call away.
(50:01):
Thank you.
Appreciate it.
Thank you once again to CoachCarol Jew for joining us in this
week's episode of theSignificant Coaching Podcast.
It's always a privilege to hearfrom coaches who bring such
passion and purpose to theirwork, and Carol is as passionate
and purposeful as it gets herdedication to her players and
her program is truly inspiring.
I'm sure you're walking awayfrom this episode with some
(50:23):
great takeaways on leadership,resilience, and what it really
means to build a winningculture.
I know I am.
If you've enjoyed today'sconversation, be sure to
subscribe to the podcast andleave a review.
Your support helps us reach morecoaches, parents, and athletes
who are on their own journeys ofleadership.
Also, don't forget to visit mywebsite@coachmattrogers.com,
(50:44):
where you can purchase my book,significant recruiting, read my
weekly blog and schedule arecruiting strategy session.
If you're a family looking tonavigate the college recruitment
process, schools andorganizational leaders can also
book me to speak on recruitingleadership and the journey to
college.
Thanks again for listening.
Until next time, remember tolead with significance and keep
(51:06):
pushing the limits of what'spossible.
Welcome back to another episodeof The Significant Coaching
Podcast.
I'm your host Matt Rogers, andthis week we have an incredibly
special guest, someone I've notonly coached against, but deeply
respect for the way she elevatesher program and the game of
basketball.
Join us today is Coach CarolJew, the head women's basketball
coach at Chapman University inSouthern California.
(00:36):
In her 21 years leading thePanthers, Carol has become a
true powerhouse in the world ofNCAA Division three basketball.
With over 300 career wins, she'sChapman's all time winnings
coach, and for good reason.
Her ability to coach withintensity, discipline and
relentless energy is unmatched.
Now I have to say, Carol Jew isone of my favorite coaches to go
(00:59):
head to head with when I was atthe University of Laverne.
Preparing to face her teams wasalways a challenge.
Her explosive.
Full court press and high-pacedoffense are tough to simulate
and her players though rarelyover six feet tall, never, and I
mean, never get outmatched.
The way her teams play with suchaggressiveness and heart is
(01:19):
something you have to experiencefirsthand.
It is a testament to hercoaching acumen and her ability
to get the best out of everyplayer, no matter their size or
experience.
In addition to her success onthe court, Carol has led Chapman
to numerous accolades, includingseven appearances in the Sky Act
Tournament and nine NCAAdivision three playoff births.
(01:41):
She's coached five All WestRegion selections, and under her
leadership, Chapman has made anincredible mark as one of the
elite programs in the Westregion.
Perhaps one of the mostmemorable moments of her career
came in the 2017 18 season whenCarol and the Panthers won their
first ever kayak tournament.
Title Clinching IncredibleDouble Overtime Victory over
(02:02):
Claremont Muds Scripts that winkept off an unforgettable season
with a 15 in one conferencerecord and a 23 and five overall
Mark, the best Chapman has hadin over a decade.
Her coaching staff's recognitionas the scac Coaching staff of
the year was truly deserved.
Carol's accolades go beyond thecourt.
(02:23):
In 2009, she was honored as theonly Chinese American head
basketball coach in the NCAA bythe Chinese Historical Society
of Southern California.
She's also taken her teams oninternational tours to Taiwan,
where they played in prestigioustournaments like the Jones Cup
and the BLIA tournament.
So without further ado, I'mthrilled to welcome to the
(02:45):
podcast one of the mostrespected, dynamic and inspiring
coaches I've had the privilegeto compete against and someone
I'm very proud to call a friend.
Here's Coach Carol Jew.
Coach are you still the onlyChinese American head basketball
coach in all of ncaa?
No, there actually PomonaPitzer, she, she's Chinese.
(03:05):
I think there's more I.
There's more.
It was, but you were the onlyone for a long time, right?
I believe so.
That was amazing When they did afact check and they, honored
that I couldn't believe it.
but it was amazing to have themfact check that, but if you were
half and you didn't have thename maybe they couldn't find
it.
Yeah, but still, even just whatyou've accomplished and such a
(03:27):
great role model for the ChineseAmerican community and just how
you've run your program and howyou run your life and the leader
you are.
So it's just, it was just areally cool thing and I never
saw that before.
Thank you.
never realized until, someonetells you like, Hey, yeah, wow.
That's an amazing thing.
Yeah.
Because I just look as Hey, Ilove coaching.
(03:48):
Yeah.
I love playing.
I still try.
And you forget sometimes you'rethis, Public figure.
Yeah.
Yeah, you do.
We're teachers at heart and Iknow you are too.
You're walking into yourclassroom every day to do your
job and to do something youlove.
So it's you don't think aboutthe other things, yeah.
and day-to-day life,basketball's been a part of my
(04:09):
life, since 10 years old.
And the funny thing is my dadplayed till he was 80.
And then Covid hit and I couldsee that just took a toll on his
body.
And he loved to play.
It was a ball hog, did you saidhe's a ball hog?
Yeah, all he did was reallyshoot and funny'cause we would
play, family would playThanksgivings.
(04:30):
We all get together, my sisterand I played, we were playing
together and then so the familywould play and then my sons were
playing.
And every Thursday night hewould.
Have open gym.
And then before I moved outhere, I would go play with him
and I, of course had to be thepoint guard and get him the ball
so he could but every, he wasolder than everybody else, so he
was in his sixties, seventies,so he was always 10 years older.
(04:53):
They would let my dad travel alittle bit or whatever.
And I was like, it is funny towatch him just, but he enjoyed
it.
And then on Tuesday nights hewould play in Chinatown.
And so all his buddies, so he,every, and there was a while of
Thanksgiving where he wastraveling the world playing
basketball with his over 60,over 70, team.
(05:14):
that's so great.
did he ever do Senior Olympicsor anything like that?
No, but it was like that.
So there was one year, it was inChina one year.
It was in, a couple times it wasin China and the one time it was
in Seattle.
So half his team schedules.
To come back early.
And they made the championshipgame.
And my dad says I'm the only oneleft.
And none of one's gonna changetheir flight.
(05:35):
So they have to pick up players.
And then he goes, andessentially they don't win the
championship because you haveall subs.
And I said, who does that?
You guys should have playeduntil Sunday.
He goes, but he goes, normallywe don't win.
'cause they play against exOlympians.
From China.
And so it was really, amazing.
I hope I'm still playing at 80.
I hope so too.
Gosh, that's so great.
(05:56):
I had to give it up.
I threw out my back, I was stilltrying to play against college
kids in my forties, and I threwout my back and rolled my ankle
bad, and I was like, okay,that's it.
So I miss it, but my bodydoesn't miss it.
I know it's the aftermath.
I try to play in an over 40league so I can keep up.
Yeah.
And then I got into anotherleague where it's like all ages
(06:17):
and I'm like, just, okay, I'msitting screens and I'm just
gonna run a bit down the floor.
I wasn't the player you were.
I relied on my speed and myquickness and getting the, I was
a point guard, like you and.
I couldn't shoot.
So now I don't have any speedand I don't have any quickness
and I never could shoot.
So it's a waste for me to playwell.
I'm not playing guard, I'mplaying post.
So that's where they started tomove me, yeah.
(06:39):
I love now sitting screens andgetting somebody open.
Yeah.
That's about all I'm good foranymore.
one of the big things I wannatalk about is the Asian American
community, in SouthernCalifornia and in California in
general.
You did such a great job oftapping into that from a
recruiting standpoint.
you found those passionate kidsthat were athletic and, maybe
(07:01):
were a little undersized, buthad all the skill in the world.
I don't know if you rememberthis, but my wife is Japanese
and my kids are half Japanese.
So it was always such a greatthing for me to see.
To be able to show my daughterthe role models that were on the
floor and how hard they workedand how well they played
together.
(07:21):
Has that been intentionalthroughout your career?
Not really.
but I'll tell you, I played insc.
I.
And I could tell you there was ahandful of Asians in the league.
And we knew who we were.
And it's funny that one of'emplayed at Oxy, Sharon Wa and we
became teammates in the Asiancommunity, Asian leagues.
Yeah.
And we'd laugh and we'd talk,she would talk about oh yeah I
(07:42):
was wondering how it felt liketo play with, if you played, if
I played for Jody Burton.
Okay.
Or we just talk about that.
But it was just something laterthat I said.
Okay.
If I it wasn't intentional, butit's something that I knew.
Yeah.
And it wasn't until a parenttold me and I was, assistant and
interim coach at Claremontbefore I came to Chapman.
(08:03):
Yeah.
This dad was like, man, you gavemy daughter a chance.
Yeah.
And I was like, what?
He goes, you gave her anopportunity.
She would've never playedcollege.
Yeah.
And I didn't think of that.
I was just thinking I wanted toplay college because.
We lost in the second round ofCIF where I was at Monte Bell
High, and I had the itch.
(08:24):
I didn't wanna stop playing, soI walk on the Cal State LA as a
D two and of course I don't getto play.
And I'm like, okay, I gotta gosomewhere else.
I wanna play.
Yeah.
So I ended up at Claremont,there was that community.
And then it was funny, I had anassistant, I had been at Chapman
for 10 years and she was like,oh, I really like this kid who's
five foot and she happened to beAsian.
It just morphed that way.
(08:46):
And then I started going thatway.
'cause then people were tellingme, Hey, there's a kid here.
Here's a kid, here's all theconnections.
So I would say the first 10years it was all word of mouth.
And they happened to be Asian.
Yeah.
and because they've been playingsince they were five.
Then their parents played.
So there was this niche that Ijust fell into.
(09:08):
Yeah.
what a great thing though.
So many of those kids are beingtaught, and I don't know if it's
still the same way, but theywere being taught the
fundamentals.
They were taught how to defendoff the ball.
Where to pressure, when topressure, how to block out.
So you were getting those kids,you obviously raising them and
training them in the right way,but you were getting a lot of
(09:29):
kids that really knew how toplay the game.
Yeah, and it was funny becausethen you start to say okay, you
have an opportunity to play.
and like one of the kids who wasfive feet tall, Lauren Katama,
who ended up being a hall offamer for us at five feet.
And then she's, head coach atNorth Torrance High School.
And, you know they're winningthere too, right?
Yeah.
So it was like looking at herand she said, her mother had
(09:53):
told me this, that she realizedshe could play with the bigger
kids.
'cause she was smarter.
And impeccable IQ extension ofme.
Yeah.
And where her dad and I stilllaugh about it today and yeah.
You didn't have to stand up thatmuch because she would help run
it.
She was so smart.
Yeah.
And then it was to makeeverybody else better.
When you have one player thatcan make everybody else better.
(10:16):
Yeah.
Hey, just catch my ball andshoot it.
It is.
Or it's infectious?
Because then if one or two orthree are playing D, you hope
all five will play D and theneverybody's buying into it.
And that's what it was.
So like here I'm 50 something,I'm still playing.
Yeah.
So you had to find the kids thatwanted to go to another level.
And Lauren was one of'em.
(10:37):
Are you finding that harder andharder to find those kids that
just are gym rats and love it?
Yeah, I think now that there'sso many other things to do,
COVID had a little bit to it.
We can't coach the way we usedto.
that's a tough thing.
Like I wanna be hardnosed, butreally it's bigger than
basketball.
(10:57):
But when you're in it and you'recoaching these kids, and my
decimal of my voice goes up.
That's okay, I had to recruit.
Come by and she came all theway, from back east.
And I think she, because I said,you have to, like how I coach
you don't, I don't want anysurprises.
And I think when I made fun, orI wrote left or right on my
(11:22):
kids' hand.
'cause I said, don't forget shedoes that.
And I think I was like, okay,this is not for me.
And it's true.
So it's funny how the reallygreat programs like you have at
Chapman, where the coaches arereally clear.
Hey, this is who we are.
Do your research.
if this is the only place yougotta play and that's why you're
(11:43):
coming here, you might wannarethink that.
watch me on YouTube.
'cause you might not like theway I coach, but it's funny that
people only see me those twohours or when I used to coach my
boys.
Yeah.
We run the same plays.
And people were like, oh, she'smean.
And then they talk to me andthey go, oh, you're pretty nice.
I was like, that's just twohours.
(12:05):
That's right.
It's your fire.
it's a part Of the journey thatI think is getting lost in
sports.
It's so important that you learnhow to hear a coach's words and
not their tone and learn how toovercome that adversity I might
have to sit a little bit, Imight have to watch a little
bit.
it might take me a year to learnthe press that coach wants me to
(12:26):
learn and the defense coachwants me to learn.
If I'm patient.
Good things are good.
you would hope.
and that's why I always try totell the parents let us coach
trust.
but then the kids gotta do thework and they gotta be honest
about their work.
but if parents or your friendsare in the way of saying you
should be playing, you should bestarting, it's just okay, but
you gotta understand what we'redoing.
(12:47):
'cause I really would not do it.
I wouldn't play a kid because Idon't like them.
I wanna be liked.
You wanna win.
Yeah.
We wanna win.
And so sometimes it takes awhile.
I remember a kid at Cal State LAgoing, Hey, parents said, I
should be starting, I should beplaying.
I go, but they're not atpractice.
And then I was like, we put youin the game.
You have 3001 minute.
(13:08):
And so you try to explain that.
And then one, become a coach,and then they come back to you
10 years later and go, oh, I getit.
My blog this week is exactlythat.
This is how a, an athletethinks, and this is how a coach
thinks.
Coach, I'm making 40% of mythrees.
I'm benching 20 pounds more.
I'm faster.
You still can't find your man intransition.
(13:29):
Yeah.
You still get screened way tooeasily.
You don't block outconsistently.
And that's how we think.
Exactly.
Effort.
Effort, energy, consistency.
Yeah.
Pace.
And that's why I said you gottaput the effort in defense and
you have to show that you wannaplay defense.
And even if you're not sure, Ithink it's energy out there.
(13:53):
And it's not fun when half theteam's doing it and half the
team's not doing it.
Especially the way your programworks.
you can't afford to have one ortwo, not follow through.
it looks like everybody'sconnected by a string the way
it's supposed to be.
it's all smoke and mirrorscoach.
No, it's not.
I've been waiting 15 years tohave this conversation with you.
(14:13):
can we talk press?
Oh, absolutely.
I love the way you coach thepress.
I love the way your team's play.
I hate having to coach againstit.
I don't have the nightmaresanymore preparing for you.
So it's been good.
I've had good 15 years.
I sleep a lot better when Idon't have to face your teeth.
But talk to me about thefoundation.
Of where you start with yourpress.
(14:34):
'cause I don't know what youcall it, but for me it's a ball
press.
It just, it's supposed to be aknown, right?
As soon as you score, you'renot, there's no time to high
five.
That's right there.
You just gotta turn around andsay, okay, we're trying to get a
five second call here.
No one likes pressure.
(14:54):
No one does.
No, I don't care if you're thebest ball handler.
And the best iq.
and we've had people beat us, ontheir press, and then you had to
lay it off, right?
But the whole thing is, get thefive second call, get in and get
the ten second call, and thenhow much time do you have left
to really run an offense becauseyou've been through all that
pressure Make them go to theirweekend, make'em go to a
(15:19):
sideline.
'cause when we had both theChristina and Linda Lee, two
sisters That went for sideline,the other one.
Turn them.
Turn them, and then cause aturnover.
Without fouling.
And so if you have thosebeliefs.
People are gonna rotate, peopleare gonna take chances.
Where I think for the longesttime it was like, okay, you just
(15:41):
guard your men and you're good.
And if they don't score, that'sokay.
But rev up the game, right?
And I wanted to, I played for ateam, and this is where the
foundation I played for, an Asiateam called the Imperials.
They were all ex-collegeplayers, 10 years older than me.
So when they went to party, Icouldn't go'cause I was 19.
(16:01):
They taught me a work ethic.
Yeah.
Like I was sitting on the benchon a rec team and I vowed to
okay, I'm gonna work harder.
Yeah.
And here I'm a post on theirteam.
I'm slow as mud.
And then, at Claremont I'mconsidered like I'm pretty good
as a point guard.
Then you go here, I got pickedleft and right.
So you learned how to playPoint.
(16:22):
Yeah.
And you have to play gooddefense.
And you had to rotate you.
You're not just guarding yourperson.
It's full court and it's causingturnovers.
It's so hard.
At least for me, it's so hard toteach that to an 18-year-old.
Does it start with recruitingfor you where you're looking for
(16:43):
certain things or do you justknow I'm bringing this kid in
with skills and an attitude andenergy?
I can teach her.
Fun, the fundamentals of whatwe're trying to do.
Where does this start?
I really think the fit is thatyou gotta like us, what we're
doing.
And I'm gonna mold you.
this is the thing that I startedto get and I started to listen
(17:06):
to people that would play for melater.
I didn't know I had it in me.
Yeah.
Believe that.
you pushed me to another leveland now I'm in the workforce.
I wouldn't, I don't know if Iknew I had that.
Yeah.
Like we just had another hall ofFamer, Kimmi Taca, she was
around when I was coaches.
Yes.
10th 2011, 12, yeah.
(17:27):
Just became a hall of famer.
Great.
And at five six, and here's thething.
I had my assistants finder andcould shoot had, was athletic
and.
She comes to a game and then inher mind, I'm not good enough.
I don't find this out till hersenior year and we're heading to
(17:48):
Whitman for the playoffs.
Her mom told me she wasn't gonnaplay.
She was gonna come here and say,thanks, coach two, I got, I'm
here, And I'm quitting.
She ended up playing as afreshman and, impeccable shooter
could grade her own shot.
I found out that she didn'tthink she was good enough.
And then, she starts the nextthree years and starts to get
(18:13):
confident.
And like I said, you gottademand the ball.
And she could jump out of thegym.
She believed in the defense.
And I don't think there was asingle person she played with
that didn't like her.
Because she didn't yell atanybody until she's okay, gimme
the ball.
And stomped her foot like Iwould do with my heels and asked
for it.
but Kimmy learned, how to playand how everybody respected her.
(18:35):
Everyone loved her.
because you know what?
She just worked hard.
And that's a testimony to beinga Hall of Famer.
But here's someone that said tome, I would've been okay going
to a uc and becoming a physicaltherapist.
She still became a physicaltherapist, and is.
But she played really goodbasketball.
Yeah.
(18:55):
And she was the comradery,everything, right?
Yeah.
Here's, I feel like that's theopportunity I'm giving.
And here's somebody that playedat a small school, LaSalle High
School in Pasadena, or Arcadiain that area, and, was okay up
and down the floor.
(19:16):
I'm gonna score 20, but I,pushed'em to another level like
they didn't even know they had Ijust push and she didn't like to
get yelled at and she'llremember the times I did yell at
her.
She goes, oh, remember that timeat Redlands?
I go, yeah, I remember because Isaid, Kimmy, come on, we need
you.
It's our culture.
It's don't cause waves.
Don't get yelled at.
If you do get yelled, you betterfind a way.
(19:37):
Yeah.
To not get yelled at.
And so here's another hall offamer.
So is this who you were in thebeginning?
have you changed?
have you gotten more confidentor changed your mentality, your
authenticity?
Or have you always been thisversion of you?
(19:58):
Honestly, I'm not sure.
I would say that, yeah, I'mhardnosed It's funny when people
describe me no nonsense.
too serious.
And I don't look at myself thatway.
But when I do coach, I wannawin.
I'm not out there.
To just be out there.
But I know that I've changed alot of my coaching style because
(20:20):
can't cuss as much.
Or you gotta say things and ifyou're going to get on someone,
also tell'em what they're doing.
Great.
And then talk to'em afterwards.
because I always coached by menand the men that coached me,
they would be hard.
Yeah.
Then I remember in high schoolcrying one time going do you not
(20:41):
like me?
And he goes, no, it's what wealways hear.
We're hardest, on the best ones.
We are the one with the mostpotential.
And you get that and you wantGod, you just don't want them to
just be okay.
I want them to be great.
And as the years went by andlistening to alums tell me,
yeah, I just hated this, but.
(21:03):
Or make fun of me because I'myelling.
Or I did a wedding video andthey're like, coach, can you do
the joy?
Come here.
Or even a old high school kidgoes, I still remember when you
said, So it resonates.
And I go, I felt bad.
But I think I've had to tone itdown.
'cause it's just a differenterror.
It is.
(21:25):
it's hard for me, I've beencoaching high school a little
bit, helping here and there andit's just, I love the game so
much and it's so hard to findkids that love the game anymore.
It's like, why are you playing?
I like to shoot.
Okay, there's A-Y-M-C-A overhere.
Go shoot.
There's more to this.
You gotta love it.
(21:45):
it's gotta be important to you.
And it's hard for me to coachkids that don't see it that way.
and then coaching our own kids.
Coaching my two boys.
Since second grade or evenyounger.
I taught them about passing theball.
defense, and they're just ascompetitive.
when my older one ended up notplaying his senior year because.
(22:06):
His high school decided to bringall transfers in I said, oh,
heck no.
My younger one's not goingthere.
I had taught them, I didn't knowboys basketball really, you
gotta be a great shooter or theydon't really wanna play you.
But I found a coach in myyounger son, Carson's coach,
that he valued defense and heturned my son Carson into one of
(22:29):
the best defense players I'veever seen Did not let their best
Score.
Yeah.
At the highest level.
And it's funny'cause people saidwhy don't your kids play
college?
And I said, you know what?
I found it like a collegeprogram since second grade.
Yeah.
And I coached a lot of the kids.
I was trying to prep them forhigh school.
And some appreciated, some werelike, ah, I can't stand this.
(22:51):
She just keeps yelling at me.
But it was more like I try tocontrol it to say, watch what's
happening.
Yeah.
And I think at the end of theday, it was, it's hard to be in
the stands as a parent.
It is.
But I also trusted Carson's highschool coach.
Good.
He was good.
That's great.
That's so great to hear.
So I found somebody, except itis funny, a shout out to, coach
(23:14):
Meyer.
I said, whereas alike except Ihave hair, he doesn't, I love
it.
It's, that is where the heart ofthe game comes for me.
When you get to teach somethingand you can see them grow and
that they're growing past whatyou said, past what they thought
they potentially even was.
(23:34):
I feel like that's our job,isn't it?
Exactly.
That it's bigger than Basco.
And this is what I tell everyrecruit, you're gonna come here.
I wanna know what you're doing10 years from now.
Yeah.
I'm still gonna weddings I findout, things are happening in
their life.
Yeah.
one day when I looked up at thestands and I said, wow, a lot of
(23:55):
alums are here today.
Yeah.
And I said, wow, this is great.
They were there for a purpose.
I had no idea.
And I guess I was gonna get acertain how many wins and it my
assistant had, and our SID putthat together, like bringing
people there.
And I said, you know what?
This is what it's all about.
And taking pictures with themand showing how many years it's
(24:18):
been.
Yeah.
And even when I was an assistantat Cal LA, I still see those
kids too, and they're havingkids or they're.
Whatever is happening or they'rehaving a crisis with a partner
and they're like, okay, comeover and we talk till one, two
in the morning.
It's still happening.
Yeah.
Yep.
And that's why it's more thanbasketball, that we had that
(24:39):
time in basketball with thetrust, the love, the heartache.
Yeah.
The emotional times togetherthat she's not just thinking
about how are you gonna help mewin?
Yeah.
How are you gonna help me win inlife?
Yes.
No, It doesn't.
All right.
You're making me go away fromwhere I wanted to be.
(24:59):
I wanna talk about this press ofyours.
Okay.
Because teaching kids how toread and react and watch the
game, and know when to go trap,when to get to the middle, when
to rotate back, when to pick upthat loose player.
it's impossible for a lot ofcoaches.
And your kids just seem to ownit.
(25:20):
They own it from, it seems like.
how do you start that?
How do you get those kids toreact and rotate?
Like I said, you go fromoffensive drill, and let's just
say we do a five man weave.
And then it could become a threeon two.
So you gotta designate and say,okay, as soon as that ball goes
through the hoop, two of youguys become defenders.
(25:43):
And then we bring a thirddefender running down saying,
Hey, I'm your eyes And then Igo, your job is to try to get a
five second call.
It's hard to do, but when you doit in a game, it's just wow.
But that's the rotation.
so you gotta Kick the fear outof them because they don't know
they're questioning it.
And you just gotta go, just go.
(26:05):
it's like letting go in life,Yeah.
So you just gotta go.
Just go and we'll rotate foreach other because you still got
four other players in the back.
Yeah.
And you have two other teammatesthat are supposed to rotate for
you.
So really, that's where itstarts, is just going from an
offense and then to a defense,shift your gear.
And then that's why I was sayingthere's no time to high five.
(26:25):
So you gotta work on wanting tomove and rotate and it's really
all up here.
So you gotta do that early onand just drill it.
'cause really, when I look atit, by the time the juniors and
seniors, they're like, just go.
They're apprehensive whenthey're freshmen and sophomores
(26:46):
still.
But as juniors and seniors,you're like, okay, this is what
we're trying to do.
You just have to have that guts,the grit to go.
the whole thing is communicationtoo.
do we double?
Do we run and jump?
And sometimes you gotta justtell them.
that's why I'm always chattingon the floor, not with the ref.
(27:06):
'cause I don't know how to talkto a ref really.
I'm telling them, go.
Why not?
And then you try to show it onfilm because you're like, whoa.
a lot of it is scared to go Doyou, there's that fear the
consistency of what you're doingevery day get rid of that fear?
Is it you saying just go and theseniors are saying, just go,
(27:27):
it's a belief system inanything.
And then you just gotta drill itand you just gotta.
Try to get them to understandthat'cause it's funny'cause I
had a freshman tell me last yearthis doesn't work.
And I said, trust it.
Just do it.
And here's my assistant giving adissertation at halftime.
And then I said, so we get backin it and then she gets a steal
(27:51):
and then something else happens.
And I said, oh, it doesn't work.
It's making them crazy.
Yes.
You found ways to break it?
We did.
It was rare and few and farbetween.
But most coaches when they runanything like a run and jump or
a ball press, typically you havethat kid in the back who's six
foot six one a rim defender,force a bad layup, force a
(28:14):
turnover back there.
But I don't remember you everhaving anybody over five, nine.
Yeah that's the one thing I havethe hardest time getting six
footers to come here.
But the thing is, and now inthis day and age, they're not
going to the hoop.
They're taking threes.
and it's hard for a post to go,okay, now it was a two on one
(28:34):
and I said, stay out'causethey're shooting threes and
making'em.
Sometimes they're gonna score alayup on us, right?
But you know what?
You gotta take those because Ilike the greater good of being
able to put pressure and makingthe point guard have to keep
second guessing.
Yeah, especially if they're thepoint guard that's used to
playing 37, 38 minutes per gameand all of a sudden they're
(28:57):
having to exert 10 times theenergy for that amount.
The biggest compliment I evergot was I was coaching my son
and I recognized the girl'sscore keeping and she played at
viola.
I go, you look familiar.
And she goes, you look familiar.
And then I said, oh, I coach achat.
She goes, oh, you're a press.
And I went, oh.
And I remember her and I said,oh yeah, you were really good.
(29:17):
She goes, and you didn't let metouch the ball.
And I said, okay, we're doingsomething.
It's such a fun way to play ifyou can get over your insecurity
about how fast it is.
Because yes, we may give up lap.
Yes, we may give up a three, butwe are making them go deep into
their bench.
We're wearing them out and atthe end of the game when they're
(29:40):
playing, their eighth, ninthplayer and they're used to only
playing seven and their top fiveis exhausted with four foul.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The game should be over.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It should be.
It is funny.
One time we forced 50 turnovers,but I was very conscientious of
the score, because you don'twanna be a jerk about that.
(30:01):
Yeah.
And then I looked at, and thecoach got really mad.
I'm not gonna play you everagain.
And I was like you know it, westill made it respectable.
I was 20 right.
But, we wanted everybody to,practice it because, your bench
doesn't get to practice it.
That's right.
In practice it's one thing to doit in a game, but it's hard to
mimic what we do if we do itright.
(30:24):
It's so hard, especially if youonly have a day or two to
practice before you get to you.
Yeah.
Trying to run a scout againstthat it's so hard because
there's no, it's not afoundation like a 1 3, 1.
Or a diamond press.
It is.
And communication.
If those are the things that youcan do it I'm gonna say really
(30:46):
that first 10 years, thosegroups talked.
Yeah.
They made me look good.
It's the encouragement you gavethem.
It's the independence and thefreedom to say, just go it.
And, I get calls about, I coachthe system for so many years and
coaches will call me and say,Matt, I don't have any size.
We don't have a lot of talent.
We think we're gonna run thesystem.
(31:07):
And I go, if you can run thesystem without any size and not
a lot of talent, why wouldn'tyou run it when you have some
size.
Yeah, it's the same with yourpress.
If you can get kids to work hardand run the floor and talk to
each other, man, it's so muchfun.
It is like you gotta be ballmagnets.
(31:27):
That's the whole thing.
Yeah.
I think for young coaches thatwanna play at your pace and play
with your intensity, so oftenthey give up so fast because
they did give up a couplelay-ups.
It's such a 40 minute mentality.
Yeah.
It's a grand purpose of yougotta tire them out.
Yeah.
(31:47):
and that's really the wholething is they can't make those
decisions at the end of thegame.
they don't have any legs left.
No, they're missing layups.
they're short on their threes,they're short on their free
throws.
anybody that wants to play thegame and coach the game with
their hair on fire.
I need to sit, watch you playme, because every kid wants it.
(32:09):
Now it's, the idea is, do Iwanna work that hard?
Yes.
You're right.
do I really wanna be in thistype of shape.
Because your kids are always insuch great shape.
let's transition here a littlebit.
I wanna talk, get into yourrecruiting a little bit.
I know you use your assistancereally well and what is your
mindset?
(32:29):
Every year when it comes to yourclass, does it start with what
your returners, what you knowyou got coming back, where your
weaknesses are?
Are you filling positions?
What is your mindset when you'recharting what you wanna bring in
the next year?
It's, it changes every year,but, we're always looking for a
six footer.
Because I'm an inside outsidecoach still.
(32:52):
I like, and you gotta findsomeone that's gonna want to put
their back To the basket.
Yeah.
And that's not easy to findanymore.
So I'm still looking for those.
And you always gotta find theguards that have that pace.
The energy.
'cause you gotta still findthose players.
there was a year where 10 was tocome back and nine did it.
(33:14):
Boy was I, it was scrambling.
I bet that was like my thirdyear.
And, I had recruited, I had abunch of JC transfers, and then
I got two out of my stretchingclass that played high school.
So we had a team of nine.
We went six and five.
(33:35):
During, after Christmas, we hadjust come back from Seattle and
one kid says, you know what?
I'm homesick.
I'm going back to Ohio.
And so we asked one player tocome back.
After Christmas we, we rolled17th straight.
Wow.
It was before you got there.
(33:55):
We played Laverne in the firstNCAA playoffs and with that team
of nine we rolled 17 straight.
Crazy.
And we're down 17 actuallyagainst Laverne in the first
round playoffs.
This is when we're independent.
We weren't yet in theconference.
Ended up winning that game atovertime.
Lauren Caama has 30 points, 17for 18 free throws.
(34:21):
Wow.
Her junior year.
And then they send us toBrownwood, Texas where the
population is 20,000, 5,000 whenwas at the game.
Crazy.
Ended up losing by 20 something.
And at 10 minutes left in thegame, said we'd like to thank
the Lady Panthers for coming.
All the way to Brownwood, Texasyourself.
I was like, this game's notover, but we didn't, of course.
(34:43):
so that was a humblingexperience for me when nine
players didn't come back.
And then after I, I haven't hadthat problem.
Chapman sells itself.
I have a wealth of people thatrecommend players to me.
Okay.
So in the last five, six years,I've said to people, okay, you
gotta know if I'm your fit.
(35:03):
I might not be.
I don't want you to come here.
And I've had several people comeand it's just you know what?
In Oregon we don't have a shockclock.
I don't really wanna playdefense.
No offense to you, but I don'twanna play.
Oh, she said probably not gonnalast a year anyways.
Yeah.
these wheels are turning orYeah.
You're just hard.
I don't know what it's like inhigh school and you're together
the whole time because you wantto be, but I, we're only
(35:26):
together right?
Six months.
That's right.
So we gotta get things done.
So for me, recruiting, theygotta know.
I really encourage them to watchour team.
I ask'em when they come topractice.
I ask'em to talk to our players.
I have an elite camp.
I've got the last few years, 50%of'em there.
Good.
So I'm looking for kids thathave energy that they're gonna
(35:46):
have to have on the court, thatthey're gonna wanna talk and
really the biggest thing is theygotta be good people.
And I don't know that for afact.
Until you get'em.
Yeah.
Until they get on campus.
But I keep saying, I can'tguarantee anything.
I'm not gonna guarantee playingtime.
I'm not gonna guarantee a spot ateam.
You have to like what you havehere.
Yeah.
Academically.
(36:07):
And I have to say it because,I'll have, a kid will say you
promised me.
I go, oh no.
I never promised.
Yeah.
Because I would be lying to you.
Yeah.
I had two conversations with twopeople who already got into
Chatman just yesterday, and Ijust said.
Everybody's coming back and Iwould hate for you to say, yeah,
come and I don't have a spot.
And I can't guarantee that.
(36:28):
Someone might quit along theway.
I've had some injuries, somepeople last minute say, Hey, I
don't wanna do this.
Which is okay.
Yeah.
But they have to fit, meaningthey gotta wanna work.
And I keep telling'em, you haveto push yourself and I'm gonna
push you.
I'm gonna get on you is becauseI really want you to be at
another level.
I wouldn't be doing my job.
(36:49):
So that's my biggest spiel.
I stick to it as much as I can.
you have to really watch how weare and you have to like what
yeah.
Because it's not justbasketball, but it's family and
family doesn't always get along.
And so a lot of friends thathelp recruit know.
(37:11):
What the type of player I'mlooking for.
Absolutely.
And when you find those peopleyou keep going back to the
because they understand.
They understand you.
And the parents have tounderstand,'cause you end up
having them and you have to say,whoa, you gotta let me coach.
How far out are you recruiting?
Are you focused?
I'm sure you're 25.
Class is pretty wrapped up.
We're hoping they come becauseremember at our level, we don't
(37:32):
offer the scholarships.
Yeah.
So you've got your, the onesthat have signed their financial
aid and No, not actually.
It's been tough with financialaid, but I do have everyone
coming back.
I have, a point guard startingpoint coming back from ACL
surgery, so she'll be back Nice.
And someone with a back.
So we do have everybody comingback.
It's tough to say because.
(37:52):
Chapman, like again, sellsitself.
Yeah.
And you get all these letterslike, Hey, I wanna try, I wanna
walk.
And when they come and they seethe timing of it all, sometimes
they just stop like that yearwith nine players just saying,
Hey, I gotta do other things.
Yeah.
I've been going all the way downto now, 27.
(38:14):
There's been a good skill outthere.
I was just talking to a juniorlast night and I think she'd be
a great fit for us'cause she,it's about team and she likes to
play defense and she's five 10,which is great for us.
she's going into the statetournament this weekend and
luckily for now livestream, it'seasier Than trying to get
(38:34):
somewhere.
it's just finding the rightpeople in the right fit.
Every coach has gotta do it theway that feels.
And you've been doing it longenough that you know what your
timing looks like.
Yeah.
I'm sure if you see a sophomorethat's really good you'll say
something to them or saysomething to their coach.
Like I just lost a five 11 girlto one of the Oregon schools,
and I thought, oh, the girl ranthe floor.
(38:56):
Very coachable.
And she decided to go somewhereelse.
I was hoping she'd come and Iwas like, you would've been
stealing all these balls off thepress.
That's right.
It's a killer.
So then it gets just, I get myheart broken.
And one year we had a six threekid from China who lived in.
Yucca Valley and kept, itdeposited and everything.
(39:16):
And last minute she goes, my dadwants me to go to a D one in
Louisiana.
I was like, you could reallyhelp us.
She ended up graduating.
I think she got her school paidfor, but I don't think she
played as much as she could atour school.
So it breaks my heart.
recruiting is really hard forme.
It always breaks your heart.
Yeah.
That's part of the game.
(39:36):
You're not gonna get every kid,but, we invest into these kids
'cause we wanna be around'em forthe next four years we see their
potential.
Yes.
how many kids are you carryingtypically on your roster?
last year was like 13.
This year was like 16.
So I try to keep it between.
13 to 16 because there's timeswhere there's injuries.
and it happened in ourconference where, I saw five
(39:57):
kids out on one team, and therewas only six on the bench.
That was my three years atLaverne.
everybody was in street clubs.
Yeah.
It's still happening like that.
I think the biggest thing thatI've seen this year with our
conference Is the injuries?
when we lost our point guard,that just put us in a little bit
of tailspin and we didn't haveour center.
(40:18):
That was the person that wouldbe communicating boxing out.
everybody in our conference hada major injury like an ACL tear.
Crazy.
And you could see how ittrickles down.
I would say most of the timewe're always healthy, but we
always had an ACL tear here andthere.
But then it meant an opportunityfor someone to step up.
(40:39):
it's different when you'reyoung.
You can bounce back.
How many do you play Every game?
about 10, 10, 11.
With the pace we play.
It doesn't always happen thatway, but we try.
Like with our point guard thisyear, a freshman got to play and
she played great defense for us.
like I said, it's anotheropportunity.
You take'em when they come.
our sophomores saying, just bepatient, but you better be ready
(41:01):
to play.
Because you don't want to, and Iwon't say it.
Poop in your pants.
I like how you pull back for thepodcast, and don't say the
really way that you'll, you'dsay it, maybe that or, we've
had, like I said, we've had kidsand so yes, you have to know
when to, when not to.
(41:22):
Coach, I can pick your brain allday.
I've gotta get to Californiabetween October and February and
just if you'll let me, I justwant to come and watch a couple
practices.
Would love to have you, Matt,always classy and very
respectful and when I read, whenyou were writing your stuff and
I found my name and I was like,let's do's writing about me.
(41:42):
How cool is that?
I've been coaching for 25 years,26, whatever, no, 28 years.
Like you, we've been doing thisa long time and there's coaches
that we go up against that we'relike, gosh, I.
They're doing something sounique, so special.
The preparation is so hard andfor me, you're one of those Hall
of Famers, there's four or fiveHall of Fame coaches that I'm
(42:04):
like, gosh, there's so much Ilearned from you.
Playing against your teams,watching all the film, getting
my girls ready to play againstyour girls.
It was just always a greatchallenge for me.
It was always so much fun, eventhough I usually walked out with
my tail between my legs, but itwas, there's just something
(42:26):
special about what you do, thatit's important for me that.
People get, you get the creditfor that.
'cause it's really great whatyou do.
I appreciate that.
Thank you.
It's such an honor.
the respect that we have foreach other when we coached
against each other.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
means a lot.
'cause this wasn't gonna be myfirst gig.
I didn't ever plan to coach.
(42:46):
Yeah.
I was an accountant.
I wanted to make money Turned tomy husband at 20 something years
old and said, can I coach?
Didn't think I would stick, butI have to say that I'm really
fortunate that I can, and I hopeI could keep doing this for a
long time.
Our profession is better becauseof you, and you're so nice.
(43:09):
I just happened to have oursecond child in the middle of my
last season of Laverne, and Ijust, couldn't do it anymore.
I wasn't finding the joy becauseI felt like I was being a bad
dad, I wasn't there for them.
So when I get to see what you'redoing and how you continue to do
it.
You're such a role model forcoaches and families need to
understand this is how it'ssupposed to be, what you do and
(43:32):
how you do it.
and when you allow a coach toteach and mentor the way you do
it, your child is gonna be somuch better for the rest of
their life and we've lost you.
Hope I appreciate that.
You have to have the rightpartner, right?
Yes.
That's gonna let you do that.
You do.
and I have to thank my husband,Kevin, that.
You don't, you know it, it's,you're not working.
(43:54):
You're working too hard.
And when it was during season,he took care of everything.
And that let me be a coach.
And I'm really fortunate that Ifound somebody that we could do
it together.
And he loves basketball as muchas I do because here we watch
both our sons and after theyplay the game and he films it,
we go home and watch it.
That's crazy.
It's so much fun.
(44:14):
We miss it now that they're bothout of high school, so Yeah.
Yeah.
we're really trying, that's whatit's become, I'm a volleyball
dad.
I'm in a volleyball gym everynight and every weekend and just
loving the heck out of it and.
Just want her to learn how todeal with adversity and learn
how to figure out who she is.
Coach, I, again, I could talk toyou all day.
I've got a couple questions Iask every coach.
(44:35):
Okay.
And I just want to get yourthoughts on this.
If I put you in a room and,let's say you're in an
auditorium with 300 families thequestion is.
How do we get started?
if I wanna play for a coach Jewat Chapman, or if I wanna play
college basketball, where do Istart?
what advice do you give familiesabout recruitment?
what path is the healthiest wayfor families to get started?
(44:57):
I think you get, email, it'sfunny'cause I'm helping somebody
that, I coach a boy, who playedat Bosco.
St.
John Bosco, and he played withmy son and he's looking for a
college to play for next year.
And some coaches say, Hey, waitfor them to come to you.
But in our 20 something years oftechnology, I think you gotta go
(45:20):
to them too.
I think you gotta do both,right?
And I found some gems throughwatching video, so reach out to
coaches.
And show some videos.
And I always say this when, atour camps and when we have,
clinics, one highlight is good,but not 20 But I wanna see a
full game.
(45:41):
Because I'm watching yourmannerisms.
How you interact with yourteammates, how you interact with
your coach and what you're doingon the bench.
That's right.
You right.
If you're taking your shoes offbefore the game's ending, maybe
not come to us.
That's true.
Like I even tell our players, Igo, I'm watching you guys on the
bench.
You're not cheering for yourteam.
I don't think you should be onthis team.
(46:01):
So technology does help.
You should reach out to thecoach and especially, I have
some kids saying I got a GPA ofa 3.2.
That's real tough to come in tochat.
And you might not get any money.
Merit money.
So you have to think about thosethings.
and I did have a kid one year asa senior, was like a 2.9.
And she goes no one told me Ishould get good grades.
(46:23):
I go, I wish.
and I had an eighth grader manyyears ago.
what advice do you have to me?
I said, you know what?
Get the highest grades you can.
So then eight years later, She'sright there, Hailey.
And she goes, coach, I rememberwhat you told me.
I go, what did I tell you?
You told me to get good grades.
I have a 4.0.
I go, great.
(46:43):
You wanna come?
Yeah.
And she says, no, I need to getaway.
I was like, okay.
So I called two places, aMinnesota school, and I called
University of Dallas.
Dallas played, she played therefour years, started, became a
physical therapist.
That's awesome.
So I said, if this kid listenedto me, maybe hundreds more.
Might be the same thing.
(47:04):
And to this day I see them and Isaid, you are my story.
Hay.
Yeah.
that would be my first thing isif you want something, you gotta
seek it out, then you gotta comeon campus and then you gotta
figure out is it the right fit?
and for us, can you afford it?
it's simple.
It's practical, it's logicaladvice.
because once you understand thatthis is a business, it's an
institution of education, butit's a business.
(47:26):
if Chapman's not making profit,it's hard to pay your teachers
and your coaches and pay thewater bill.
They're gonna give the money tothe kids.
Have proven that they can come,they can go to college and do
well.
Look at we're, we are havingsome of our state schools in
California taking awayathletics.
Sonoma State and then I thinkSan Francisco state's taken away
(47:47):
three teams.
It's crazy.
Is there a piece of significantadvice you'd share with our
audience that doesn't even haveto do with basketball?
It doesn't have to do withsports, but is there something
that you find yourself sharing?
I just think that find the bestversion of you.
like I said, when I listened tothe alum say, I had no idea.
(48:09):
I had this in me.
Okay, so what was I doing tohelp you with that?
That every day we came topractice, there's a comradery.
So if you're gonna find the bestversion and you're not afraid to
mess up and what people willsay, failures, I don't like
that.
It's like challenges, yeah.
you gotta go through the hardstuff to get to the best stuff.
(48:33):
Totally.
And it's never gonna be the bestyet.
Yeah, there's always somethingbetter.
But if you're not enjoying thejourney and going through the
process, you're never gonna getto where you're supposed to be.
Yeah.
So I learned this phraseyesterday in a master's
leadership class.
Successes.
Successes in motion.
Instead of saying failures like.
(48:54):
We're going through, we'regetting our success in motion.
Yeah.
and I had said something to theclass, I said words matter.
So I don't like to say failures.
I don't like to say weakness.
So I say challenges becauseYeah, words do matter and the
brain doesn't know if it's realor not.
You know what?
Feed your brain with all thepositive things that you can
say.
Especially when those damnreferees keep showing up.
(49:16):
Oh, and then they're not lookingat the same things we're looking
at.
Coach.
It's such an honor to have youand talk to you.
It's a great honor to know thatyou're a friend, and I hope you
keep doing this forever, tillyou're at least, 80.
You gotta beat your dad.
But, this was a great honor forme and I really appreciate it
because it's a tough time rightnow, and this probably helped
(49:38):
more than anything else thanyou'll ever know.
I'm glad that our.
Circles have met.
And when you come back toSouthern Cal, please bring the
family.
I will, we will host you andwe'll take you to a great
dinner.
Trust me.
because with us it's about food.
It's all about food for us too.
So it would be an honor coach.
So good luck.
You've got me, if you ever needanything, I'm a phone call away.
(50:01):
Thank you.
Appreciate it.
Thank you once again to CoachCarol Jew for joining us in this
week's episode of theSignificant Coaching Podcast.
It's always a privilege to hearfrom coaches who bring such
passion and purpose to theirwork, and Carol is as passionate
and purposeful as it gets herdedication to her players and
her program is truly inspiring.
I'm sure you're walking awayfrom this episode with some
(50:23):
great takeaways on leadership,resilience, and what it really
means to build a winningculture.
I know I am.
If you've enjoyed today'sconversation, be sure to
subscribe to the podcast andleave a review.
Your support helps us reach morecoaches, parents, and athletes
who are on their own journeys ofleadership.
Also, don't forget to visit mywebsite@coachmattrogers.com,
(50:44):
where you can purchase my book,significant recruiting, read my
weekly blog and schedule arecruiting strategy session.
If you're a family looking tonavigate the college recruitment
process, schools andorganizational leaders can also
book me to speak on recruitingleadership and the journey to
college.
Thanks again for listening.
Until next time, remember tolead with significance and keep
(51:06):
pushing the limits of what'spossible.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.