May 23, 2025 • 46 mins
🎙️ Building Championship Culture with Coach Kyle Crookes
In this episode of Significant Coaching, Matt Rogers sits down with Kyle Crookes, Head Baseball Coach at the University of Central Missouri, where tradition and excellence go hand in hand. Under Crookes' leadership, UCM has become a perennial powerhouse in Division II baseball — and today, we pull back the curtain on how he builds culture, develops players, and recruits with purpose.
Coach Crookes shares how he evaluates recruits beyond the stat sheet, why coachability matters more than hype, and what it takes to sustain elite performance year after year. From behind-the-scenes staff development to helping players become better men, this conversation is full of wisdom for coaches, athletes, and parents alike.
🔗 Learn more and access tools at coachmattrogers.com
📘 Don’t miss the 5-star rated book, Significant Recruiting: The Playbook for Prospective College Athletes
🗓️ And coming this summer: sport-specific recruiting journals — companion tools to help athletes stay organized, reflective, and ready for their college journey.
Learn more and connect with Matt Rogers here: https://linktr.ee/coachmattrogers
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
I think our roster.
I would call it unique at ourlevel.
'cause most of our rosters builtfrom high school age kids that
come on up and play.
We get a junior college guyevery now and again and a
transfer from somewhere elsetoo.
And it doesn't matter where theycome from, there's a good chance
they're gonna fail when they gethere.
Yeah.
They're not gonna be the bestplayer on the field, I can
guarantee that.
You're gonna have to learn howto handle that.
And you're gonna have to learnhow to be humbled wherever
(00:22):
you're coming from and know,like this may be the first time
you failed.
Welcome back to SignificantCoaching with Matt Rogers, the
podcast where we unpackleadership culture and the
recruiting grind that goes withcoaches who are doing it right.
(00:42):
Today I'm joined by Kyle Crooks,who you just heard a short clip
from.
He's the head baseball coach atthe University of Central
Missouri.
One of the most respectedprograms in Division two
baseball.
Coach Crooks has built apowerhouse that blends toughness
with humility, structure withfreedom, and tradition with
relentless competitiveness.
(01:02):
We'll dig into how he builds aroster, leads a staff, and
evaluates players, not just bytalent, but by fit.
Don't forget to come back onMonday.
For our significant recruitingsegment where Coach Crooks is
gonna open up about whatseparates a recruit, who gets
offered from one who getsoverlooked.
Before we dive in today, makesure to subscribe to the podcast
(01:25):
and visit coach matt rogers.comto sign up for our weekly
newsletter and get access totools to help families like you
and athletes navigate thecollege recruiting process.
And coming this summer, I'mlaunching my brand new sports
specific recruiting journalsdesigned as companion tools to
my five star rated booksignificant recruiting, the
(01:46):
playbook for prospective collegeathletes.
Whether you're in baseball,softball, volleyball, football,
or beyond, these journals willhelp athletes stay organized, be
intentional, and be ready forthe biggest conversations of
their journey.
Learn more@coachmattrogers.com.
Alright, let's get today'sconversation.
Here's my talk with Coach KyleCrooks.
(02:08):
Coach Crooks, thank you so muchfor being on.
I'm gonna throw a big whopper atyou to start with.
Let's, hypothetically the NCAAcomes to you and me and says,
Hey, we're gonna put you two incharge.
Fixing this transfer issue,fixing this portal thing.
And from the prospectus of wewant kids to be not so much
(02:33):
loyal.
I hate using that.
Words for kids.
'cause what you and I havetalked about already that
coaches aren't loyal.
How do we get these kids toovercome?
Failure or not so much failure,but overcome this, it's not
going the way I hoped I'm gonnaleave for greener pastures.
Where do we start to get thosekids to say, gosh I came here
(02:54):
for a reason.
I'm gonna buy in for a while.
Yeah, I I think you start thatin the home and I hate to say
this, but I'm a father.
You're a father.
Like we all we all have jobs asparents.
I think that's probably thenumber one job we have here on
this earth.
So I think it probably startswith that.
But if you're just talkingabout, like you said the you and
me trying to solve this problemoff the top of my head, if we're
gonna treat this with NIL andtransferring and let's call it
(03:17):
what it is, like a free agency,so to speak.
Then I think we need to treat itthe way we have to put some
rules and guidelines in placethat professional, sports do.
So like in my opinion.
If you want to keep somebodygoing, I think like everybody
that shows up as a freshman,there needs to be a threshold
that they show up with in termsof NIL.
Hey, listen, you haven't doneanything yet.
Here's your NIL cap.
This is what it is, right?
(03:37):
If you wanna earn more, I don'tknow.
This is institutionally, but Idon't know if you could do this
nationally or not, but like youcan, if you achieve X, you can
get this.
If you achieve Y you can getthis.
I think transferring shouldhappen once.
I think you get a freebie if thecoach leaves.
If coaches are leaving, then solike technically, I guess it
could be twice if your coachleaves and you can go somewhere
else, I think.
(03:58):
I think one time you're askingparents and kids that are, 16,
17, 18 years old to make adecision that's gonna impact the
rest of their lives.
They're gonna go on recruitingvisits and by nature, you know
this probably better thananybody else.
Everybody's getting a snapshotof the best version of who these
people are or who they'reprojecting, coaching staff wise
and players and parents.
So there's a real, likeeverybody's being set up to be
(04:21):
like, to be led down a primrosepath that really isn't that
accurate, right?
So like it all depends onrecruiting and how honest people
are and so on, but.
You're allowed to make amistake.
So if you make a mistake and thefit isn't right, like you get
one.
Okay, let's like, you know whatwasn't right?
You know what didn't work?
Let's figure out now from thislesson where the next place is.
But you get one, in my opinion.
(04:44):
Yeah.
The first time shame on us.
The second time, you're gonnahave to eat this.
And you're gonna have to make itthrough unless your coach
leaves.
And if your coach leaves, andit's a terrible, fit for you or
whatever.
You get that three B to move on.
That to me is where I would go.
I think the NIL thing, it'sreally, it's in our space and
it's around and it's talkedabout, but it's not in, it's not
in my face like it is probablyat the next level.
(05:05):
But I would, man, I would putsalary caps on every spot and I
would incentivize, like staying,if you stay, you get more.
If you leave, sorry, your cap islower, you can't do that.
To try to help.
I guess negotiate what this isto make it more feasible at the
college level.
I love it, coach, because it'salmost like we're throwing a
(05:27):
yellow light at the kids.
Okay.
Before you transfer, think aboutit.
This is the only shot you get.
And the first thing that comesto my mind is the, is this two
year role that Major LeagueBaseball put in with throwing
first base.
Yeah.
If I'm gonna throw to firstbase, yeah.
I only get two shots of thatthird time.
It's, I'm gonna get balk.
So I have to really think aboutthrowing over to first base if
(05:47):
I'm a major league pitcher now.
Yeah.
So I love that mentality of justgetting kids to just slow down.
Yep.
You can still transfer.
Sure.
But slow down.
So I love that.
Better, better, better be right?
You better take your lessons.
You better not just jump for thenext, again, the greener
pasture, so to speak.
'Cause it's not always that, andthat's at least my belief is
(06:09):
it's not always that.
And it's not a great lesson thatwe teaching our kids either.
I agree.
Yeah.
And we talked about this beforewe clicked record, how important
it is that it starts at home,this conversation.
Yeah.
I just cannot imagine being 17years old,'cause I'm talking to
these D one coaches every dayand they're talking about how
frustrated they are.
They call a kid they love andthe first thing that somebody
(06:33):
will tell them is, you need totalk to my agent.
Yeah.
At 17, 18, 19 years old.
Yeah.
And I'm just.
My dad would, wouldn't havenever allowed that.
Never would've even, you'regoing to college if they're
giving you money to get pay foryour education, that's all you
deserve right now.
You haven't earned anythingelse.
That would've been straightoutta my dad's mouth.
(06:54):
Sure.
But our parents came from adifferent generation too.
I.
And this is old man speak, whichI thought I never would do, but
I'm doing.
But yeah, like we grew up in adifferent time and our parents
said different things to us, andparents now aren't, like I
didn't pay to play baseball inthe summer either, ever.
I played for my county Mac teamin Tucson.
That was it.
And I hope Me too.
Yeah.
Was that, so like things aredifferent.
(07:15):
Parents are investing anenormous amount of money in
their child's, in, in my caseanyway, in baseball's case, like
in their career from the timethey're like nine years old,
they wanna return on theirinvestment and I get it.
I understand that.
I just think you're, we're stillmissing the larger point here
and but I understand why thoughtprocesses go that way.
(07:35):
And I hate the idea of agents oradvisors or what have you, but I
will say, we just talked abouthow difficult the decision it is
to make your, life alteringdecision to go to college
someplace to play your sport.
And who's more prepared to makehelp you make that decision.
Your parents who are financiallyand emotionally involved, or
somebody that's a third partythat may, may have a better.
(07:57):
Understanding and a lessdifferent emotional attachment
to you.
The only problem is that they'restill getting a percentage of
what you make too.
So I don't, there, there's adifferent type of motivation for
them too, and that's to talkabout.
Yeah.
But yeah.
I didn't want to get too deepinto that.
I know you and I are gonna havea, another session here.
We're gonna talk recruiting, butI just, I wanted your thoughts
and that really helps me to hearyour perspective because.
(08:21):
I think the more parents hearwhat you're dealing with as a
coach and what you really wantout of a kid and what you want,
your roster, makeup, and thecharacter and the culture, you
can't have a culture wheneverybody's trying to get
another$10,000 and that's allthey care about.
It's really hard.
It's I don't.
There's probably a lot of thingsabout, like as a head coach, I,
(08:44):
how much do I really know aboutwhat my players say and what
they don't?
I love'em all.
I believe we have a greatrelationship.
I think this is a special placeto be.
So I like, I still continue tobelieve that this is the
exception, not the rule based onthe level we play at and the
guys that we have here and soon.
But I think it's really hard tohave a great culture.
In the locker room if theculture outside the locker room,
that's the fans and the parentsisn't good as well.
(09:06):
That's a really hard battle tofight.
There's no one more importantthan these kids' lives, than the
people that, that grew them up.
And yeah.
That's a difficult battle.
I've seen some kids really standup for what I believe is right
and say, no I'm where I belong.
As their parents are like, Hey,you may want to think about
leaving.
It's hard there and you're notplaying.
Yeah.
And then I've seen some otherkids listen to their folks and
say, yeah, you're right.
I wanna go know.
(09:28):
Yeah.
I found and you can jump on thisand tell me where I'm wrong, but
I've found.
The longer I coached, the more Iwas coaching my kids.
On how to deal with all thoseoutside influences.
How to talk to mom and dad abouttheir role, how to talk to mom
(09:48):
and dad about the culture how totalk to them about all the
things they were getting, eventhough they weren't playing
center field every day.
Maybe they were only gettingfour at bats in a week, or three
innings in a week.
But how to talk to mom and dadabout that role and what that
role meant to the team, thingslike that.
Are you finding that too?
That's, it's really probably avery smart thing to do.
(10:10):
I, the thing that we try to dois, we have a very honest sit
down conversation with theparents.
And this actually, so thisstarts at a lot of camps that I,
that I.
Have, because we recruit a lotout of our camps, that shows an
initial interest.
And if we can find somebody thatwe feel like's a good fit, on
the field and off the field, butoff the field, like I start
every camp with the parents andI speak to'em for about an hour.
(10:31):
And I'm pretty honest.
I'm extremely honest, probablyto a fault.
And I tell'em, these are thethings we look for, like on the
field metrically, that's the,that's part of it.
The other part of it is,geographically, what can you do
financially?
What can you do?
What are you looking for interms of the program?
Does winning matter?
Does it not matter?
Playing time, so on and soforth.
Trying to help them makedecisions and navigate those
(10:52):
waters.
But then in terms of us Hey,this is me and this is how, this
is our program and this is howwe operate.
And if you are not okay with howsome of these things sound and
feel right now.
You're never gonna be.
So this isn't the right place.
And I think that's part of whatthis recruiting is too.
So when we have, like it startsthere and then it goes on the,
when we bring a kid on arecruiting trip, I catch myself
(11:14):
stopping every now and againbecause it really sounds like
we're trying to tell'em not tocome.
So it's here are all the thingsthat could potentially.
Bother you as a parent and or aplayer, but mostly the parents
and I single them out, said,listen, this is every bit as
much about you as it is theplayer in terms of what a fit is
here.
'cause he's calling you everyday.
He's, he's gonna come home frompractice and he's gonna vent to
(11:37):
somebody.
It's probably gonna be you.
And if you don't believe in whatwe're doing, then it's gonna be
really tough for him to getinformation.
Yeah, he sucks, or, this is notthe right thing to be doing, or
This program's not what youwant, or blah, blah, blah.
How do you expect him to show upto practice the next day and be
what we are asking him to be?
So there's a lot of messaging onthe front end to try to prepare
(11:57):
them for it.
Now, once they get here, I dealwith the players and the players
only and they for, I guess I'vebeen very fortunate.
Either those conversations workor the players certainly are
smart enough to know that I'mprobably not gonna address their
parents.
I'm gonna address them as men,as adults and we have our
conversations and whatever theypass on to their parents, they
(12:18):
pass on.
But I treat them as adults and Ihandle them as a player in this
organization that will makegrownup decisions and do what is
best, hopefully for the programand for themselves and what we
both value.
I don't really talk to themabout their folks once they get
here, but I do address it on thefront end.
'cause I think it's a, I thinkit's a really, no, you're
(12:41):
recruiting the whole thing.
You're not just recruiting theplayer, you're recruiting their
family, you're recruitingeverything.
You're inviting that in intoyour culture, you're inviting
that into the stands.
You're inviting thoseconversations.
And the very least we need tohit that on the front end and
know that, that it's, this isall part of it.
And you guys all have to be onboard, or it's gonna be a really
tough ride.
I think it's very consistentwith the advice you gave at the
start of this.
(13:01):
You, you're basically saying I'mgonna put up this yield sign
here.
I'm not gonna put the stop signup, but I want you to stop.
I want you to think and listen alittle bit.
This is how our program works.
If this is uncomfortable foryou, go it's probably a good
sign to go look somewhere else.
Absolutely.
This is what we expect.
Don't come here.
So when you set that precedentfrom day one I think it sends a
(13:22):
little scare down the parents.
That.
Okay.
I'm no longer, coaches arerecruiting me.
He's recruiting my son, and Ihave to make sure I'm allowing
that independence and then thatrelationship to happen.
Hopefully, I think the one thingI, you're right, that's the
whole point.
Like we're literally drawinglines in the sand saying, Hey,
if this isn't something that youcan deal with, this ain't the
(13:44):
place, don't do it.
And that's every bit as good adecision to say no as it is to
say yes.
Like we think he can do it onthe field.
That's part of it.
The other part of it is allthese other things that we're
drawing the line in the sandover, but I, I, and you can
correct me if I'm wrong, so Ihave a son that's 16 and a
daughter, that's 18.
But but I know I'm, I'm a fatherand I it's sometimes difficult
to separate coach, dad somethings.
(14:06):
But I know parents nod theirheads on recruiting trips and I
can see it, and all of thethings, the lines in the sand
that we're drawing.
In their mind, they're saying,that won't happen with us.
That won't happen with us, notmy son.
That won't be a problem.
No shot.
And like you said, it's a yieldsign.
Yeah.
It's a caution sign.
And ultimately it's truth andtransparency in how we operate.
(14:29):
And it's, it allows me to say,Hey, listen, do you remember
when we recruited you, we toldyou that this was.
Not only a possibility, but alikelihood.
Don't use that as something likeyou didn't ever know this was
gonna happen, and this istypically, ultimately playing
time.
It's playing time and how hardit is every day.
(14:49):
Whether it's mentally,physically, or a combination of
the two.
So like some of this is Hey,remember when we had this
discussion?
This is what we meant and it wasreal and.
Part of this is me saying we'redoing what we told you were
gonna do.
And the other part of me isreminding you, you nodded your
head in agreement and said yes.
Yes.
Hopefully that helps andhopefully we take care of some
stuff on the front end and Yeah.
(15:11):
But nothing if we had a perfectsystem or if you have a perfect
system, though, i'm all ears.
Let me hear it.
I don't think there is one, butI think whatever you're doing is
pretty close to it.
I, I go back to my first coupleyears as a head college coach
and I remember a family would bein my office and mom would have
her notebook out, or dad wouldhave a list, or the kid would
have a list of questions and Iwould spend most of the
(15:32):
conversation answering thosequestions.
I think as the years went on asa head coach.
I'd go, I'd be, I'd talk and I'dbe done, and I'd go, do you have
any questions for me?
And the parents would look downand their notebook and go, Nope,
you answered all of'em.
Yeah.
I learned how to be proactive.
Yeah.
To save time, but also to makesure, Hey, you may have a lot of
(15:53):
questions, but let's set someground rules first.
Let's make sure you understandwhat you're getting yourself
into if you decide to come here.
Yeah, for sure.
That's smart.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I wanna do that.
And certainly I hope wecommunicate well enough.
I think communication is one ofthe foundations of our program.
And I'm, as it's pretty easy tosee, like I, I'm a talker and I,
it takes, I'm a slow processor,but I'll talk long enough
(16:14):
hopefully to figure out where Ineed to go.
And that so that's for me, therecruiting process is that, and
just like you said, I try to.
Not that I'm necessarily tryingto knock things off of their
lists but I am trying to makesure that they understand our
values and what our prioritiesare and if we can do that, like
you said, proactively, then alot of times, like the end of
(16:34):
the conversation is, no, youanswered everything.
We can go from there.
Yeah.
I love it.
All right, coach, I wannatransition to your program.
'cause you've built just anamazing program and it's and
you're doing it year in and yearout.
My word is significance.
And I tell kids, and when Ispeak at high schools, I tell
the audience, I want you toreplace the word success with
(16:56):
significance.
'cause anybody can step intothat batter's box and
accidentally throw the bat outthere and hit a ball.
Okay.
And maybe it'll go for a hit.
Maybe it'll be an out, butanybody can get in that battered
box and have some success and belucky.
So the idea of significance iswe wanna remove mere chance from
the equation.
So how we practice, how, whatour bat path is, how much reps
(17:20):
we put in and how we practice,things like that.
You've led one of the mostconsistently successful programs
in division two baseball.
What does that sustainabilitylook like behind the scenes?
How do you feel like you've beenable to win almost 40 games
every year for so long?
That's so hard.
There's coaches that would cutoff a finger just to have one 40
(17:42):
year se, 40 win season and makeit to the national tournament.
What does that look like foryou?
I, yeah it's reps and deadlinesand values and priorities.
And we don't talk about wins.
We don't talk about, any reallyany of those things we talk
about, like trying to build andgrow the best version of the
people that are in front of usin our locker room.
(18:03):
And it's in there'sintentionality, I think and
difficulty that's inserted intopractices.
And we, as a coaching staff, wereally enjoy practice.
We really enjoy the I hate touse the word grind, but like the
day to day.
Yeah.
Every, repetition at a, at anintentional rate of speed that
(18:26):
will challenge our players, whatwe hope to be as much or more
than the game.
And, we are trying to do that atthe same time as we're trying to
grow and, teach, the values thatwe really care about, routines,
communication.
Being disciplined in everyaspect of life, not just on the
field, but in the weight room,in the classroom, off the field
(18:46):
being relentless in theirpursuit of the best versions of
themselves being selfless, whichI think is a really difficult
bridge to cross as we just gotdone talking about recruiting.
But but it's necessary.
And I think that's when youreally start to see people
reveal the best versions ofthemselves when they can really
start to think about servingother people.
I.
And, and I, the la like the lastversion of that I think
(19:09):
manifests itself as love orchemistry or culture, if you
want to use those wordssynonymously.
And those are things that matterto this group.
And so we try to teach withthose values in mind.
Every day we try to coach withthose values in mind.
Those things are dis they'redifficult, that it's hard to be
disciplined, it's hard.
There's.
It's a difficult ask.
That's, I don't know, if you'rejust taking a four year career
(19:32):
that's, 1500 days of disciplinethat we're demanding that you
have it's a hard ask.
Yeah.
And for us, like the easy parts,the game, go play the game.
But that's right.
Practicing the discipline sideof it every other day is tough.
And doing it to relentlesslypursue the best of yourself is a
hard thing to do.
That's a hard, and that's whatwe ask them to do, and that's
what we try to.
(19:53):
Try to create through ourpractices.
So we try to make our practiceshard.
We try to develop practiceroutines that are that routine,
but that are difficult.
That will always challenge theskill of the player.
And then we try to allow them tohave success without, like you
said, having to rely on theresult of the hit or the
strikeout.
So like we really try toidentify things that guys can do
(20:15):
through things that they cancontrol, their effort, their
attitude, and and enjoy successwithout having to rely on the
hardest thing to do in sports.
And so that's, so for practices,for us, it's to challenge them
every day.
Challenge their conditioning,challenge their strength,
challenge their mentality.
Challenge their toughness.
Challenge their skill.
And, maybe shift the dynamic ofwhat they feel like failure
(20:35):
looks like and feels like.
Learn how to handle it early,learn and learn how to move
yourself past what you thoughtfailure was and into what we as
a team define it, define successas and and find your role, in
that.
And there's, we try to reallycommunicate the value of
everybody having a role becausethere is, and there's a million
(20:56):
cliches that I think advancethat thought process, but.
Ultimately, every single guy hasa role on this team.
And you may not love what thatrole is, but it's important.
And you gotta find a way, to begreat at it.
We practice that every day, orwe try to practice that every
day.
Try to communicate that everyday.
We try to make it harder, andthen instill some competitive
version of baseball in everypractice that we can.
(21:20):
It's it is significant in howyou go about your business, and
I love that you say you, you andyour staff love the grind.
And I, and this is the best partabout not coach anymore, I get
to be outside of the fences andlook in and really evaluate
where, when I was in the heartof it, you're doing your thing
you're grinding every day.
And sometimes you don't get thatopportunity to step back and
take a look at what you're doingand breathe from, 30,000 feet.
(21:45):
Do you think the love of thegrind comes from that repetition
and then that day where thelight bulb goes off for that
kid, all of a sudden they getit?
Or all of a sudden for them, oryou get to see that and then
that light bulb becomesownership?
It's not.
It's not what coaches teach'emanymore.
(22:07):
I figured it out.
This is mine.
And don't you need the grind toget there, to get to that
ownership?
I believe so.
Listen, like part of the love ofthe grind for me is I had no
other choice.
I'm not a great player.
I'm not a talented person.
I failed, way more than, and Iwasn't good enough to play here.
I can tell you that.
You and me.
So for me, part of it'spersonal.
(22:29):
It's the things that like, thatI didn't do that I didn't know
that I wasn't good at, that Iwant to help people be better at
maybe seeing a little bit ofmyself and everyone, but for
them, yeah.
The goal is to achieve the bestversions of themselves and for
them to take ownership of it.
And our best teams always areteams that are player led based
on, based on what they havebecome.
(22:49):
And I can go, like I.
I'm terrible at like memorytypes of things, but I could rip
off 30 names of guys that thatall played different roles on
teams that were just hugelyimpactful to our teams for what
they understood what they did ona day-to-day basis, how they
acted, what they said and trulywrapping their arms, like you
said, around what they were andowning what they were, and being
(23:12):
awesome at it.
And loving doing it and lovingdoing it, to me to serve the
greater good of the team and thegroup of people that they loved
in the locker room.
And I also think that reducessome of the stress of the game
and creates some more joy in it.
This game is similar to life andit has no problem kicking you in
the teeth every single day ifyou've let it.
But if you can.
(23:33):
If you can take joy in servingother people and finding
yourself and doing that, I thinkyou really allow your talents
to, to shine through.
You reduce some of the stressinstead of having to punch a
dude out, like you get to do itfor the other guys everywhere.
Instead of having to get a hityou get to, make hard contact
somewhere.
It just, it changes a lot ofthings for kids and I do think
they enjoy it more, but I thinkthat's a.
(23:54):
I it's a long bridge.
I don't know.
It's a, it's for everybody.
It's a difficult bridge tocross.
I.
I'm with you there, and Itotally get that.
'cause I was a grinder.
I, I didn't have the size.
I, I had small hands and shortarms as a basketball player, and
my high school didn't have abaseball team, so I had to play
Po Pony and Colt Legion, andwherever I could play, I had to
play, and nobody wanted tocatch.
(24:16):
So I caught and learned how tobe a great catcher because I
could keep my eyes open on afastball and I could take a
fast, I could take a foul balloff my face and my arm and my
chest, and I wanted more of it,but it was all because of the
grind.
Yeah, it was all because I lovedit and I wanted it every day, so
I very much appreciate that.
Yeah.
I wanna talk about leadershipwith you, coach.
I'm, I could talk to you all dayabout leadership and how you see
(24:39):
the game and how you seeteaching and coaching.
It just, it gets me excited,this is why you hearing you talk
is why I got into it 25, 30years ago.
When you think about.
When you went to CentralMissouri you coached a lot of
different places and had a greatcareer before that.
When you think about CentralMissouri what has it taught you
(24:59):
about leadership and who you areas a leader that maybe you
didn't understand earlier inyour career?
Ah, man, that's a really goodquestion.
This place is so unique.
It's taught me an enormousamount.
It took, it really clarifiedvalues for me that my values off
the field, values on the fieldwith what my goals were for the
players that walked through thedoors here.
(25:21):
It opened up an opportunity tospend, an entire career with
players here, the, collegecareer, the four year career
versus the junior collegecareer.
And I.
It, it did it really clarifiedto me that it, and it forced it,
first of all, how difficult itis playing from the front.
This program has been, I.
(25:42):
Unreal.
Good for 60 years, since 1970.
Yeah.
And so it, man, it's not me.
I didn't build this there, likeBob Tompkins built this, like
Whitey did it.
Stu Rogers did it.
Brad Hill did it.
Darren Hendrickson did it.
Tommy Myers did it.
Like I'm getting to stand on theshoulders of a bunch of giants
and and.
(26:03):
I will tell you, I think that'shorrible.
I think that's more difficult.
It really challenged me becausethere's, everybody puts pressure
on themselves and then when youcome to a place that's supposed
to be what it's been for thelast however long, you gotta
maintain that.
And I really had to take a stepback and go, okay but how do I
do that?
And I can't do it like they did.
I have to do it in a way that'sgenuine to me.
(26:24):
So it forced me to have thoseconversations with myself, with
my wife.
She's really intuitive aboutthings.
She helps an enormous amountand, we all know that wives are
massive supporters and they haveto be this, but she's a big part
of, a great perspective andthought process.
We had to sit down and talkabout what was valuable to us.
If everything goes wrong and youknow nothing right?
Happens on the field and thescoreboard is never in our
(26:46):
favor, and we go, oh, one 50,can we go to sleep at night
doing what we did?
And, it forces you to definewhat those things are and who
you're gonna do it with and howyou're gonna do it.
And so it really clarified somethings.
'Cause the first 10 years of mycoaching career at Hutch, it was
just, I don't even know if Ithought about any of those
things.
It was just like, just, we justgotta go.
(27:07):
We gotta go.
That's right.
We gotta go.
We gotta go.
We gotta go.
We gotta go.
And then, you get to this placeand, feel a little bit of that
weight for me.
In an honest moment.
It was like, okay, if it ain'tthat easy, it's not just gonna
happen.
You have to do something that'sgenuine, to you and that you can
go to sleep with every nightknowing that the results don't
all, they're not promised toyou.
And so that's what we that'swhat this place did for me is it
(27:29):
allowed me to feel good aboutwhat we were gonna do with our
players, regardless of what thescoreboard said.
Do you find.
What your wife does for you,you're having to do for your
players, and how do you go aboutdoing that?
How do you get them if you'vehad a tough loss or you're
having a bad stretch or a guy'snot hitting the ball or pitching
the way he wants to, how do yougo about getting them to take a
(27:52):
step back and look at the bigpicture and go, man, you gotta,
you got a uniform on, you'replaying division two college
baseball, you're playing againstsome of the best players in the
country, and you got this familyaround you.
How do you get them?
To come back to earth with that.
I think it's individual withevery guy.
I think that's whererelationships are so unique and
so special in this business.
(28:14):
And probably the reason why Iget to do it is'cause I get to
hang around people that I,really have a lot in common with
and that I love to be around andI just, I don't want to be in
another environment.
So I think, there's introverts,there's extroverts, there's guys
that are always thinking aboutthe next thing versus guys that
are just, they're living in themoment so much that they can't
get outta their own way.
I think again, like you said,my, my wife does a fantastic job
(28:36):
of seeing things through for me,but then from, as you mentioned,
like a 30,000 foot perspectivetoo.
So I take a lot of cues fromher.
She's an empath.
She really understands people.
She feels and sees things that Ijust would never imagine, and
she's accurate more than I careto admit.
I have that problem at my housetoo, so yeah, she's lied a lot.
And then I have I, I'm verylucky to have worked with the
(28:57):
coaching staff with Coach Backusfor the last eight or nine
years, I think.
And he's he's my work wife ifyou wanna say we have a pretty
good feel for how to do thingsand and so like I've been really
blessed to have really good guysalong the way and we can I don't
wanna say tag team, but we candiscuss.
A lot of our discussions in themorning are about just what you
said, like how guys are playingslash acting slash feeling, and
(29:20):
how we can bring about a betterresult, holistically for them.
To be honest, like I said, my,my default to everything is
we'll just work more, we'll justgo back to work.
'cause you can always believe inthat.
You can always count on that.
You can always be confident init.
And we'll do as much extra as weneed to do until you feel right.
Whoever you is.
Yeah.
And so that's my default.
There are other conversations Ithink that are had, like you
(29:42):
said, to try to maybe relievesome pressure that they're,
putting on themselves unduly.
And there's, these guys havelives outside of baseball and
there's times when those thingsaffect what they're doing.
And just being someone that theycan speak to about those things
is really important.
This is a safe place and we dobelieve in communication and we
value these human beings beyondjust what they do in, on the
field.
And, I, I wanna know ifsomething's happening and
(30:03):
sometimes they're carryingsomething with them that they
need to get off their shouldersand, we want to be able to make
sure that we remind them thatwe're here for them to do that
as well.
And it could be a school thing,it could be a family thing, it
could be a girlfriend thing, itcould be a money thing.
I don't know.
But we wanna try to do the bestthat we can to be to open the
doors, but encourage them tospeak if they need to.
(30:24):
Yeah, and we've had some guy,like those are, those are not
easy conversations for 18 to 22year olds to have.
But we wanna encourage'em tohave'em and know that we value
them beyond what the baseball.
Production is out on the fieldand and that they can and I
think that's where relationshipsget built.
And I think that's where trustgets built.
And those are the things that Ithink last forever, which is why
we're in this.
Yeah.
(30:44):
In any way.
It's so tough with that agegroup.
Heck it's still tough with me inmy fifties, it's getting kids to
understand it's not the end ofthe world.
It's okay not to be okay.
And do you find coach.
What's the ratio of you seeing akid's not right?
You?
There's something changed intheir motion.
In their motion and theircharacter.
(31:04):
They're just quiet.
When they're usually not quiet.
Do you find it's, you go, you oryour staff going to them going,
Hey, you okay?
Or do you find that it's,they're coming to your office so
they're grabbing you afterpractice?
Say, coach, I need talk.
You got a few minutes.
I think most of the time it'smean.
Bye.
I don't know how to defineleadership necessarily, but I
(31:24):
think it's our job, to do that.
Yeah.
We see something.
I think we, our job is to tellthem we see something and
they're, maybe they're not awareof it, maybe nothing's wrong.
Yeah.
But I, we're pretty active aboutit.
If we see something different orif they're acting different,
we're around these guys everysingle day.
I'm around these guys more thanI'm around my family.
Yeah.
If we see something, we again,most of the time, we try to be
(31:45):
proactive with conversations andcommunication.
I'll just ask Hey, what's goingon?
What's happening is something,is something under, underneath
this that's bothering you.
And again, like most of thetime, kids will answer no.
Then I think that opens the doorfor them to come in later after
practice when there's noteverybody in the dugout or
whatever.
Say Hey, you asked, I didn'twant to talk about it, but I do
(32:07):
now.
Yeah.
So I think it needs to beproactive or it is from the
coaching staff.
More often than not, I thinkvery rarely our, I'll tell you
what, our seniors, the guys thathave been here the longest are
the ones most comfortable havingthose conversations.
Yeah.
And they'll, and that always thetruth.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They'll walk right into theoffice, one of, one of our two
offices and.
And sit down'cause they'rewelcome to, to just hang out or
(32:27):
do whatever and and then starttalking.
And that's, again that's, that,that's when we're really doing
good things, right?
That's when we feel like, we'redoing it right for them and for
the program.
And I'm glad that they're, theyfeel confident enough to do
that, but most of the time Ithink we have to start the
conversation.
Yeah.
Thank you so much for thatcoach.
That's.
(32:47):
I want the podcast to be, andit's what I want families and
kids to hear.
This is what you should want.
You should want a coach thatloves you and believes in you.
And yeah, they're gonna win alot of baseball games, but
there's, I.
There's that space betweenchildhood and adulthood that you
get to be with somebody for fouryears that's really gonna help
(33:11):
you learn how to jump into thatadult world.
And you guys just sound like youdo it so well and you care about
doing it so well, man, I don'tknow how well we do it, but we
do care about the kids here andit's not always, so here's the
other side of it, right?
This is like a recruiting talk.
It's not always nice.
This age isn't nice.
Yes.
This life isn't nice And ourguys need to learn how to deal
(33:34):
with that.
Yes.
Because they're gonna go intolife when they leave here and
they're gonna get a wife andthey're gonna get a job with a
boss they don't like, andthey're gonna have a kid and
they're not gonna have sleep.
And there's gonna be a bunch ofthings that go on and they
better learn how to deal withthose things.
Better than anybody else.
That's what the goal is.
Yes.
And not walk away from it.
Not, not be, a poor defaultversion of themselves but a
version that's strong enough tostand up to whatever it is and
(33:56):
handle it the right way.
And, sometimes that doesn't feelgood, yeah.
Sometimes.
Sometimes that's being told youare not doing it right here.
And that doesn't always feelgood.
And so there's that too.
But I think again, like Iwouldn't tell you if I didn't
care about you and I wouldn'ttell you if I didn't think it
applied to this and everythingelse we were doing.
And I hope we do a good job.
(34:17):
I really believe in what we do.
But I'm super biased too.
Yeah, you should be.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we talk about the, theloving and the caring and all
that, but really where it startsis, can you take a kick in the
butt?
Yeah.
Can you adapt and make changes?
Because if nobody's kicking youin the butt, you're never gonna
(34:37):
get from point A to point B.
It's really e either that oryour ga the game you're playing
is too easy.
Yes.
So that's typically, I thinkthat one of the.
I think one of the biggestadjustments guys have to make
when they get here, and it don'tmatter what level they come
from, man, most of the time weget high school kids most of the
time.
I think our roster.
I would call it unique at ourlevel.
(34:57):
'cause most of our rosters builtfrom high school age kids that
come on up and play.
We get a junior college guyevery now and again and a
transfer from somewhere elsetoo.
And it doesn't matter where theycome from, there's a good chance
they're gonna fail when they gethere.
Yeah.
They're not gonna be the bestplayer on the field, I can
guarantee that.
And their response to thosethings are, that's like you
said, you're gonna have to learnhow to handle that.
(35:18):
And you're gonna have to learnhow to be humbled wherever
you're coming from and know,like this may be the first time
you failed.
And and how you deal with thatis probably gonna dictate a lot
about how this at least firstyear is gonna go.
But more than likely the rest ofyour career.
So that's also a part of it.
I'm with you, coach.
100%.
I've got a strange question foryou and you may not have a good
answer and that's okay.
'cause it's a little out thereand I'm gonna you'll probably
(35:39):
call me tomorrow and go, Matt, Iwish I would've said this.
'cause it's this type ofquestion.
I told you I'm a slow processor.
I am too.
I am too.
So I hate to do this to you.
When you think about yourprogram, what part of your
program do you believe wouldn'tmake sense to an outsider, but
is absolutely essential to whatyou do?
(36:00):
If somebody saw your practicesor a drill or what you do as a
team, is there something thatmay not make sense to a parent
or a high school?
I wouldn't even say a highschool coach'cause they usually
get it, but is there somethingthat just wouldn't make sense to
somebody that wasn't in thereevery day?
Probably there's probably almostall of our practices.
(36:22):
Are designed to be reallydifficult.
But I, if I were gonna I can, Ican't separate I'm gonna pick
two things.
Our conditioning and then ourgame day pre-game batting
practice for everybody to seeare things that I think most
people that know the game, thatdon't know the game, everybody
looks at and goes, what are theydoing?
(36:43):
And why?
And I've had it argue with me.
Not argued, discussed whatever.
People, they don't, they're notreally asking why, like, why do
you do that?
I want to do that.
They're asking like, Hey, why doyou do that?
That doesn't jive, that doesn'tmake sense.
I don't think that's right.
But so be it.
But I, I believe in what theyare.
I think our coaching staff, andwe try to change things up every
(37:04):
year, but I think our coachingstaff believes in certain
things.
And our conditioning segment inthe fall is.
Different.
And and then our VP before gamesis different too, I think.
Yeah.
It's amazing that and I've toldyou this.
I've been talking to all thesegreat coaches.
You're one of'em.
I feel like I've talked to theMount Rushmore of division two
coaches this week, and I put youright there.
(37:24):
How, when you, I'll say it.
You don't have to say it, I'llsay it, but for me it's amazing
how many of you talk aboutconditioning.
How important that is to yourprogram and because you don't, I
don't think an outsider wouldunderstand that.
They watch a baseball game andgo, my wife says it's so slow,
(37:44):
and I go, oh, these guys areamazing athletes and they're in
amazing shape.
Do is that a cornerstone foryou?
The conditioning is, yeah, butit, it's not necessarily the c
the carryover of the actualphysical.
Trait from conditioning to thebaseball field necessarily.
And in a lot of regards, thepeople that ask me why we do it
(38:05):
are making good points.
It makes it harder to perform.
Like when we're doing'em, we'redoing it to separate the wheat
from the chaff, so to speak.
Yeah.
So if anybody, it's, it is.
And it's about developing trustand finding who you want in your
foxhole with you and who's gonnado what's required, even though
it ain't pleasant.
And who's willing to take on anextra load if somebody else is
struggling.
(38:26):
And conditioning speaks to a lotof what I think what the guys in
the locker room need.
And they know it sucks, but theyalso know they need it.
And they they want it.
Even though they hate sayingthat the guys that you know that
are back year to year, evenpeople that know they're, look,
they have to do it again.
They are for it.
(38:47):
They support it.
But in the moment, it makesthings tougher.
It makes our on-ramping processlonger.
We, like physically, we beat'emup pretty good.
So a bunch of guys are losingweight.
We've gotta help'em gain weight.
They gotta stay hydrated, theygotta go to class.
They still gotta performbaseball activities on the back
end.
We're making life tougher onthem.
In a lot of ways, in a lot ofthose ways aren't really
(39:08):
applicable directly from thereto the field but in so many
other ways when those guys inthe locker room can all look
around and say, yeah, I saw thatguy do this, I experienced this
with this guy.
It makes it far easier forstarting pitcher to give the
ball to the guy coming outta thepen.
Yeah, the guy outta the pen tothrow the slider.
Three, two, knowing thatcatcher's done what he's done.
And, I think it, it brings'emall closer'cause they're all,
(39:30):
sharing in the suffering.
But I also think it all createsa different kind of trust level
between them too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's it and I think whatoutsiders don't understand when
they come to a college practicelike yours or like mine, like I,
as a basketball coach, therewere so many people that go,
Matt, why?
Why are you guys only shooting?
Three or four free throws inpractice and I go,'cause most of
(39:53):
these kids are only gonna shootthree or four in a game, and I
want everyone to be sopressurized.
That when they get in the game,it doesn't matter if there's
10,000 people in the stadiumscreaming and yelling and
there's one second on the clockand they gotta make a free
throw.
I want every free throw to feellike that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I want them to know thatthey can overcome that anxiety
(40:13):
and that fear.
And a big part of that is beingin great shape and having the
lung capacity, whether you're abaseball player, a pitcher, or a
basketball, it doesn't matter,is having that lung capacity be
like, all right, I can mentallyhandle this.
I'm not worn down.
I can handle that.
That last inning of pitching,'cause I got it.
My arms got it, my, my lungs gotit right.
(40:33):
You can't do anything if you'renot breathing.
Yep.
And there's a skill to findingyour breath and slowing it down
and, finding.
Again, like when you start toaccomplish, the conditioning,
I'm sure for a lot of people, soI don't know that we're doing
anything super different, butbut whatever it is, it's tough
and it's gonna challenge'em.
And most of them have never doneanything like it.
And when they get through it,they've accomplished something
(40:54):
that they never would've thoughtthey could've accomplished
before.
And I think mentally thatcarries them over, as you said,
over an anxiety hump orsomething else.
But also I think it reallyallows them.
If the direct carryover is this,it's like, Hey, if I could catch
my, if I could push this sledwhen I felt like this, yeah.
I guarantee you I can throw thispitch when I feel like this.
So awesome.
Yeah.
(41:14):
Awesome, coach.
I got some rapid fire fun onesfor you.
I've pushed you today and you'vebeen great and yeah, I've thrown
some crazy stuff at you.
Are you up for some fun ones?
Yeah.
Come on.
Anything.
All right.
If you're playing today, what'syour walkup song?
For me.
Yeah.
That's a really good one.
(41:34):
It's gonna be Wolf and Man byMetallica.
Oh yeah.
Now we're talking, speak of mylanguage.
Favorite post-game meal, win orlose.
Is there something you crave?
I will not eat if we lose.
And if we win.
Oof.
Pork chops.
Pork chops.
A good pork chop.
Chop me too.
More satisfying.
(41:56):
A perfectly executed hit andrun.
Or picking off a runner at thirdo.
I, a hit and run for me.
That's, yeah.
Sorry.
No, I'm with you.
If you weren't coachingbaseball, what would you be
doing?
I've been asked that a lot.
I don't have a great answer.
(42:16):
It's a tough one for somebodythat's so passionate about
coaching.
It's a tough one for me too.
Yeah I think I probably, I wouldprobably be in the military
probably.
Yeah.
I tell people that all the time.
I wish that's what I would'vedone.
I wish I would've put morethought into that at 18.
Me too.
Because I saw my nephew do it,and I just saw how, what that
(42:37):
did for him when he came out ofthat and the type of human being
he is now, yeah.
What he learned.
So I'm with you there.
A player or coach you'd mostlike to share a dugout with?
Past or present?
I'm, wow.
I've been really blessed toshare the dugout with some
special people.
And I, there are so many peoplethat I look up to, I'll tell you
(42:58):
this because it's recency bias.
I think you brought'em up and Ihave heard some just incredible
things.
But Coach Brooks at Angelo Ihave heard some things just
about his feel for seeing thegame.
Yeah.
And his ability to predictwhat's gonna happen before it
happens.
I would be fascinated to be inthe dugout with him.
(43:19):
I have an enormous amount ofrespect for him, enormous amount
of respect for Coach Urso too.
I have no idea how he does whathe does, but man, it's hard to
play against and it's it's funto watch.
But yeah I've heard some thingsabout Coach Brooks all good,
that are, that almost otherworldly that I think I would,
that I would really like to, I'dreally like to be a part of and
(43:40):
see.
I just spent about an hour and ahalf with him.
So I see so many similarities inyou two and how you see the game
and what I love about both ofyou is you just simplify it.
You're able to take somethingthat's really complicated and
see the nucleus of it veryclearly.
And I, I think that's what makesa great coach when you can take
big ideas and say this is reallythe key to that.
(44:02):
This is how we get to that bigidea.
So I'm with you there.
Coach, thank you so much.
I'm excited to do a recruitingsegment with you, but thank you
so much for doing this andthanks for being who you are and
caring so much about these kidsand doing it right, even though
we're both couple old menyelling at cars to slow down.
(44:22):
We're trying to keep the heartof why we coach and why we play
the game.
As the centerpiece for thesekids.
So it means a lot to me.
I appreciate, the invite on.
I am as I guess really talky.
So I'm happy to do this.
It's the first one I've everdone.
I really enjoy it.
So I, and I can go on forever.
So I really appreciate theopportunity to speak and thank
you very much.
You got some big games coming upand just know we'll be cheering
(44:44):
for you.
You've got a big fan in me andif there's anything I can ever
do for you and the boys in theprogram or your family, don't
hesitate to call.
I appreciate that offer.
Thank you so much.
It means a lot.
That's a wrap on today'sconversation with Coach Kyle
Crooks for managing a nationallyelite roster to identifying
recruits who truly fit the mulesbaseball culture.
(45:06):
Coach reminded us that greatprograms aren't built overnight.
They're built on consistency,clarity, and connection.
If this episode added value foryou, don't forget to subscribe,
rate and share the podcast andhead over to coach matt
rogers.com to sign up for theweekly newsletter where I share
tools, strategy, and perspectiveto help you lead and recruit
(45:27):
with significance.
And be sure to check out the newrecruiting journals, dropping
this summer.
Designed as companion tools tomy five star rated book
significant recruiting, theplaybook for prospective college
athletes, these sports specificguides will help athletes stay
focused, document their journey,and prepare for college
conversations that matter.
(45:48):
Hey, thanks for listening, andremember, significance is
greater than success.
See you next time.
I think our roster.
I would call it unique at ourlevel.
'cause most of our rosters builtfrom high school age kids that
come on up and play.
We get a junior college guyevery now and again and a
transfer from somewhere elsetoo.
And it doesn't matter where theycome from, there's a good chance
they're gonna fail when they gethere.
Yeah.
They're not gonna be the bestplayer on the field, I can
guarantee that.
You're gonna have to learn howto handle that.
And you're gonna have to learnhow to be humbled wherever
(00:22):
you're coming from and know,like this may be the first time
you failed.
Welcome back to SignificantCoaching with Matt Rogers, the
podcast where we unpackleadership culture and the
recruiting grind that goes withcoaches who are doing it right.
(00:42):
Today I'm joined by Kyle Crooks,who you just heard a short clip
from.
He's the head baseball coach atthe University of Central
Missouri.
One of the most respectedprograms in Division two
baseball.
Coach Crooks has built apowerhouse that blends toughness
with humility, structure withfreedom, and tradition with
relentless competitiveness.
(01:02):
We'll dig into how he builds aroster, leads a staff, and
evaluates players, not just bytalent, but by fit.
Don't forget to come back onMonday.
For our significant recruitingsegment where Coach Crooks is
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(01:25):
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(01:46):
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Alright, let's get today'sconversation.
Here's my talk with Coach KyleCrooks.
(02:08):
Coach Crooks, thank you so muchfor being on.
I'm gonna throw a big whopper atyou to start with.
Let's, hypothetically the NCAAcomes to you and me and says,
Hey, we're gonna put you two incharge.
Fixing this transfer issue,fixing this portal thing.
And from the prospectus of wewant kids to be not so much
(02:33):
loyal.
I hate using that.
Words for kids.
'cause what you and I havetalked about already that
coaches aren't loyal.
How do we get these kids toovercome?
Failure or not so much failure,but overcome this, it's not
going the way I hoped I'm gonnaleave for greener pastures.
Where do we start to get thosekids to say, gosh I came here
(02:54):
for a reason.
I'm gonna buy in for a while.
Yeah, I I think you start thatin the home and I hate to say
this, but I'm a father.
You're a father.
Like we all we all have jobs asparents.
I think that's probably thenumber one job we have here on
this earth.
So I think it probably startswith that.
But if you're just talkingabout, like you said the you and
me trying to solve this problemoff the top of my head, if we're
gonna treat this with NIL andtransferring and let's call it
(03:17):
what it is, like a free agency,so to speak.
Then I think we need to treat itthe way we have to put some
rules and guidelines in placethat professional, sports do.
So like in my opinion.
If you want to keep somebodygoing, I think like everybody
that shows up as a freshman,there needs to be a threshold
that they show up with in termsof NIL.
Hey, listen, you haven't doneanything yet.
Here's your NIL cap.
This is what it is, right?
(03:37):
If you wanna earn more, I don'tknow.
This is institutionally, but Idon't know if you could do this
nationally or not, but like youcan, if you achieve X, you can
get this.
If you achieve Y you can getthis.
I think transferring shouldhappen once.
I think you get a freebie if thecoach leaves.
If coaches are leaving, then solike technically, I guess it
could be twice if your coachleaves and you can go somewhere
else, I think.
(03:58):
I think one time you're askingparents and kids that are, 16,
17, 18 years old to make adecision that's gonna impact the
rest of their lives.
They're gonna go on recruitingvisits and by nature, you know
this probably better thananybody else.
Everybody's getting a snapshotof the best version of who these
people are or who they'reprojecting, coaching staff wise
and players and parents.
So there's a real, likeeverybody's being set up to be
(04:21):
like, to be led down a primrosepath that really isn't that
accurate, right?
So like it all depends onrecruiting and how honest people
are and so on, but.
You're allowed to make amistake.
So if you make a mistake and thefit isn't right, like you get
one.
Okay, let's like, you know whatwasn't right?
You know what didn't work?
Let's figure out now from thislesson where the next place is.
But you get one, in my opinion.
(04:44):
Yeah.
The first time shame on us.
The second time, you're gonnahave to eat this.
And you're gonna have to make itthrough unless your coach
leaves.
And if your coach leaves, andit's a terrible, fit for you or
whatever.
You get that three B to move on.
That to me is where I would go.
I think the NIL thing, it'sreally, it's in our space and
it's around and it's talkedabout, but it's not in, it's not
in my face like it is probablyat the next level.
(05:05):
But I would, man, I would putsalary caps on every spot and I
would incentivize, like staying,if you stay, you get more.
If you leave, sorry, your cap islower, you can't do that.
To try to help.
I guess negotiate what this isto make it more feasible at the
college level.
I love it, coach, because it'salmost like we're throwing a
(05:27):
yellow light at the kids.
Okay.
Before you transfer, think aboutit.
This is the only shot you get.
And the first thing that comesto my mind is the, is this two
year role that Major LeagueBaseball put in with throwing
first base.
Yeah.
If I'm gonna throw to firstbase, yeah.
I only get two shots of thatthird time.
It's, I'm gonna get balk.
So I have to really think aboutthrowing over to first base if
(05:47):
I'm a major league pitcher now.
Yeah.
So I love that mentality of justgetting kids to just slow down.
Yep.
You can still transfer.
Sure.
But slow down.
So I love that.
Better, better, better be right?
You better take your lessons.
You better not just jump for thenext, again, the greener
pasture, so to speak.
'Cause it's not always that, andthat's at least my belief is
(06:09):
it's not always that.
And it's not a great lesson thatwe teaching our kids either.
I agree.
Yeah.
And we talked about this beforewe clicked record, how important
it is that it starts at home,this conversation.
Yeah.
I just cannot imagine being 17years old,'cause I'm talking to
these D one coaches every dayand they're talking about how
frustrated they are.
They call a kid they love andthe first thing that somebody
(06:33):
will tell them is, you need totalk to my agent.
Yeah.
At 17, 18, 19 years old.
Yeah.
And I'm just.
My dad would, wouldn't havenever allowed that.
Never would've even, you'regoing to college if they're
giving you money to get pay foryour education, that's all you
deserve right now.
You haven't earned anythingelse.
That would've been straightoutta my dad's mouth.
(06:54):
Sure.
But our parents came from adifferent generation too.
I.
And this is old man speak, whichI thought I never would do, but
I'm doing.
But yeah, like we grew up in adifferent time and our parents
said different things to us, andparents now aren't, like I
didn't pay to play baseball inthe summer either, ever.
I played for my county Mac teamin Tucson.
That was it.
And I hope Me too.
Yeah.
Was that, so like things aredifferent.
(07:15):
Parents are investing anenormous amount of money in
their child's, in, in my caseanyway, in baseball's case, like
in their career from the timethey're like nine years old,
they wanna return on theirinvestment and I get it.
I understand that.
I just think you're, we're stillmissing the larger point here
and but I understand why thoughtprocesses go that way.
(07:35):
And I hate the idea of agents oradvisors or what have you, but I
will say, we just talked abouthow difficult the decision it is
to make your, life alteringdecision to go to college
someplace to play your sport.
And who's more prepared to makehelp you make that decision.
Your parents who are financiallyand emotionally involved, or
somebody that's a third partythat may, may have a better.
(07:57):
Understanding and a lessdifferent emotional attachment
to you.
The only problem is that they'restill getting a percentage of
what you make too.
So I don't, there, there's adifferent type of motivation for
them too, and that's to talkabout.
Yeah.
But yeah.
I didn't want to get too deepinto that.
I know you and I are gonna havea, another session here.
We're gonna talk recruiting, butI just, I wanted your thoughts
and that really helps me to hearyour perspective because.
(08:21):
I think the more parents hearwhat you're dealing with as a
coach and what you really wantout of a kid and what you want,
your roster, makeup, and thecharacter and the culture, you
can't have a culture wheneverybody's trying to get
another$10,000 and that's allthey care about.
It's really hard.
It's I don't.
There's probably a lot of thingsabout, like as a head coach, I,
(08:44):
how much do I really know aboutwhat my players say and what
they don't?
I love'em all.
I believe we have a greatrelationship.
I think this is a special placeto be.
So I like, I still continue tobelieve that this is the
exception, not the rule based onthe level we play at and the
guys that we have here and soon.
But I think it's really hard tohave a great culture.
In the locker room if theculture outside the locker room,
that's the fans and the parentsisn't good as well.
(09:06):
That's a really hard battle tofight.
There's no one more importantthan these kids' lives, than the
people that, that grew them up.
And yeah.
That's a difficult battle.
I've seen some kids really standup for what I believe is right
and say, no I'm where I belong.
As their parents are like, Hey,you may want to think about
leaving.
It's hard there and you're notplaying.
Yeah.
And then I've seen some otherkids listen to their folks and
say, yeah, you're right.
I wanna go know.
(09:28):
Yeah.
I found and you can jump on thisand tell me where I'm wrong, but
I've found.
The longer I coached, the more Iwas coaching my kids.
On how to deal with all thoseoutside influences.
How to talk to mom and dad abouttheir role, how to talk to mom
(09:48):
and dad about the culture how totalk to them about all the
things they were getting, eventhough they weren't playing
center field every day.
Maybe they were only gettingfour at bats in a week, or three
innings in a week.
But how to talk to mom and dadabout that role and what that
role meant to the team, thingslike that.
Are you finding that too?
That's, it's really probably avery smart thing to do.
(10:10):
I, the thing that we try to dois, we have a very honest sit
down conversation with theparents.
And this actually, so thisstarts at a lot of camps that I,
that I.
Have, because we recruit a lotout of our camps, that shows an
initial interest.
And if we can find somebody thatwe feel like's a good fit, on
the field and off the field, butoff the field, like I start
every camp with the parents andI speak to'em for about an hour.
(10:31):
And I'm pretty honest.
I'm extremely honest, probablyto a fault.
And I tell'em, these are thethings we look for, like on the
field metrically, that's the,that's part of it.
The other part of it is,geographically, what can you do
financially?
What can you do?
What are you looking for interms of the program?
Does winning matter?
Does it not matter?
Playing time, so on and soforth.
Trying to help them makedecisions and navigate those
(10:52):
waters.
But then in terms of us Hey,this is me and this is how, this
is our program and this is howwe operate.
And if you are not okay with howsome of these things sound and
feel right now.
You're never gonna be.
So this isn't the right place.
And I think that's part of whatthis recruiting is too.
So when we have, like it startsthere and then it goes on the,
when we bring a kid on arecruiting trip, I catch myself
(11:14):
stopping every now and againbecause it really sounds like
we're trying to tell'em not tocome.
So it's here are all the thingsthat could potentially.
Bother you as a parent and or aplayer, but mostly the parents
and I single them out, said,listen, this is every bit as
much about you as it is theplayer in terms of what a fit is
here.
'cause he's calling you everyday.
He's, he's gonna come home frompractice and he's gonna vent to
(11:37):
somebody.
It's probably gonna be you.
And if you don't believe in whatwe're doing, then it's gonna be
really tough for him to getinformation.
Yeah, he sucks, or, this is notthe right thing to be doing, or
This program's not what youwant, or blah, blah, blah.
How do you expect him to show upto practice the next day and be
what we are asking him to be?
So there's a lot of messaging onthe front end to try to prepare
(11:57):
them for it.
Now, once they get here, I dealwith the players and the players
only and they for, I guess I'vebeen very fortunate.
Either those conversations workor the players certainly are
smart enough to know that I'mprobably not gonna address their
parents.
I'm gonna address them as men,as adults and we have our
conversations and whatever theypass on to their parents, they
(12:18):
pass on.
But I treat them as adults and Ihandle them as a player in this
organization that will makegrownup decisions and do what is
best, hopefully for the programand for themselves and what we
both value.
I don't really talk to themabout their folks once they get
here, but I do address it on thefront end.
'cause I think it's a, I thinkit's a really, no, you're
(12:41):
recruiting the whole thing.
You're not just recruiting theplayer, you're recruiting their
family, you're recruitingeverything.
You're inviting that in intoyour culture, you're inviting
that into the stands.
You're inviting thoseconversations.
And the very least we need tohit that on the front end and
know that, that it's, this isall part of it.
And you guys all have to be onboard, or it's gonna be a really
tough ride.
I think it's very consistentwith the advice you gave at the
start of this.
(13:01):
You, you're basically saying I'mgonna put up this yield sign
here.
I'm not gonna put the stop signup, but I want you to stop.
I want you to think and listen alittle bit.
This is how our program works.
If this is uncomfortable foryou, go it's probably a good
sign to go look somewhere else.
Absolutely.
This is what we expect.
Don't come here.
So when you set that precedentfrom day one I think it sends a
(13:22):
little scare down the parents.
That.
Okay.
I'm no longer, coaches arerecruiting me.
He's recruiting my son, and Ihave to make sure I'm allowing
that independence and then thatrelationship to happen.
Hopefully, I think the one thingI, you're right, that's the
whole point.
Like we're literally drawinglines in the sand saying, Hey,
if this isn't something that youcan deal with, this ain't the
(13:44):
place, don't do it.
And that's every bit as good adecision to say no as it is to
say yes.
Like we think he can do it onthe field.
That's part of it.
The other part of it is allthese other things that we're
drawing the line in the sandover, but I, I, and you can
correct me if I'm wrong, so Ihave a son that's 16 and a
daughter, that's 18.
But but I know I'm, I'm a fatherand I it's sometimes difficult
to separate coach, dad somethings.
(14:06):
But I know parents nod theirheads on recruiting trips and I
can see it, and all of thethings, the lines in the sand
that we're drawing.
In their mind, they're saying,that won't happen with us.
That won't happen with us, notmy son.
That won't be a problem.
No shot.
And like you said, it's a yieldsign.
Yeah.
It's a caution sign.
And ultimately it's truth andtransparency in how we operate.
(14:29):
And it's, it allows me to say,Hey, listen, do you remember
when we recruited you, we toldyou that this was.
Not only a possibility, but alikelihood.
Don't use that as something likeyou didn't ever know this was
gonna happen, and this istypically, ultimately playing
time.
It's playing time and how hardit is every day.
(14:49):
Whether it's mentally,physically, or a combination of
the two.
So like some of this is Hey,remember when we had this
discussion?
This is what we meant and it wasreal and.
Part of this is me saying we'redoing what we told you were
gonna do.
And the other part of me isreminding you, you nodded your
head in agreement and said yes.
Yes.
Hopefully that helps andhopefully we take care of some
stuff on the front end and Yeah.
(15:11):
But nothing if we had a perfectsystem or if you have a perfect
system, though, i'm all ears.
Let me hear it.
I don't think there is one, butI think whatever you're doing is
pretty close to it.
I, I go back to my first coupleyears as a head college coach
and I remember a family would bein my office and mom would have
her notebook out, or dad wouldhave a list, or the kid would
have a list of questions and Iwould spend most of the
(15:32):
conversation answering thosequestions.
I think as the years went on asa head coach.
I'd go, I'd be, I'd talk and I'dbe done, and I'd go, do you have
any questions for me?
And the parents would look downand their notebook and go, Nope,
you answered all of'em.
Yeah.
I learned how to be proactive.
Yeah.
To save time, but also to makesure, Hey, you may have a lot of
(15:53):
questions, but let's set someground rules first.
Let's make sure you understandwhat you're getting yourself
into if you decide to come here.
Yeah, for sure.
That's smart.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I wanna do that.
And certainly I hope wecommunicate well enough.
I think communication is one ofthe foundations of our program.
And I'm, as it's pretty easy tosee, like I, I'm a talker and I,
it takes, I'm a slow processor,but I'll talk long enough
(16:14):
hopefully to figure out where Ineed to go.
And that so that's for me, therecruiting process is that, and
just like you said, I try to.
Not that I'm necessarily tryingto knock things off of their
lists but I am trying to makesure that they understand our
values and what our prioritiesare and if we can do that, like
you said, proactively, then alot of times, like the end of
(16:34):
the conversation is, no, youanswered everything.
We can go from there.
Yeah.
I love it.
All right, coach, I wannatransition to your program.
'cause you've built just anamazing program and it's and
you're doing it year in and yearout.
My word is significance.
And I tell kids, and when Ispeak at high schools, I tell
the audience, I want you toreplace the word success with
(16:56):
significance.
'cause anybody can step intothat batter's box and
accidentally throw the bat outthere and hit a ball.
Okay.
And maybe it'll go for a hit.
Maybe it'll be an out, butanybody can get in that battered
box and have some success and belucky.
So the idea of significance iswe wanna remove mere chance from
the equation.
So how we practice, how, whatour bat path is, how much reps
(17:20):
we put in and how we practice,things like that.
You've led one of the mostconsistently successful programs
in division two baseball.
What does that sustainabilitylook like behind the scenes?
How do you feel like you've beenable to win almost 40 games
every year for so long?
That's so hard.
There's coaches that would cutoff a finger just to have one 40
(17:42):
year se, 40 win season and makeit to the national tournament.
What does that look like foryou?
I, yeah it's reps and deadlinesand values and priorities.
And we don't talk about wins.
We don't talk about, any reallyany of those things we talk
about, like trying to build andgrow the best version of the
people that are in front of usin our locker room.
(18:03):
And it's in there'sintentionality, I think and
difficulty that's inserted intopractices.
And we, as a coaching staff, wereally enjoy practice.
We really enjoy the I hate touse the word grind, but like the
day to day.
Yeah.
Every, repetition at a, at anintentional rate of speed that
(18:26):
will challenge our players, whatwe hope to be as much or more
than the game.
And, we are trying to do that atthe same time as we're trying to
grow and, teach, the values thatwe really care about, routines,
communication.
Being disciplined in everyaspect of life, not just on the
field, but in the weight room,in the classroom, off the field
(18:46):
being relentless in theirpursuit of the best versions of
themselves being selfless, whichI think is a really difficult
bridge to cross as we just gotdone talking about recruiting.
But but it's necessary.
And I think that's when youreally start to see people
reveal the best versions ofthemselves when they can really
start to think about servingother people.
I.
And, and I, the la like the lastversion of that I think
(19:09):
manifests itself as love orchemistry or culture, if you
want to use those wordssynonymously.
And those are things that matterto this group.
And so we try to teach withthose values in mind.
Every day we try to coach withthose values in mind.
Those things are dis they'redifficult, that it's hard to be
disciplined, it's hard.
There's.
It's a difficult ask.
That's, I don't know, if you'rejust taking a four year career
(19:32):
that's, 1500 days of disciplinethat we're demanding that you
have it's a hard ask.
Yeah.
And for us, like the easy parts,the game, go play the game.
But that's right.
Practicing the discipline sideof it every other day is tough.
And doing it to relentlesslypursue the best of yourself is a
hard thing to do.
That's a hard, and that's whatwe ask them to do, and that's
what we try to.
(19:53):
Try to create through ourpractices.
So we try to make our practiceshard.
We try to develop practiceroutines that are that routine,
but that are difficult.
That will always challenge theskill of the player.
And then we try to allow them tohave success without, like you
said, having to rely on theresult of the hit or the
strikeout.
So like we really try toidentify things that guys can do
(20:15):
through things that they cancontrol, their effort, their
attitude, and and enjoy successwithout having to rely on the
hardest thing to do in sports.
And so that's, so for practices,for us, it's to challenge them
every day.
Challenge their conditioning,challenge their strength,
challenge their mentality.
Challenge their toughness.
Challenge their skill.
And, maybe shift the dynamic ofwhat they feel like failure
(20:35):
looks like and feels like.
Learn how to handle it early,learn and learn how to move
yourself past what you thoughtfailure was and into what we as
a team define it, define successas and and find your role, in
that.
And there's, we try to reallycommunicate the value of
everybody having a role becausethere is, and there's a million
(20:56):
cliches that I think advancethat thought process, but.
Ultimately, every single guy hasa role on this team.
And you may not love what thatrole is, but it's important.
And you gotta find a way, to begreat at it.
We practice that every day, orwe try to practice that every
day.
Try to communicate that everyday.
We try to make it harder, andthen instill some competitive
version of baseball in everypractice that we can.
(21:20):
It's it is significant in howyou go about your business, and
I love that you say you, you andyour staff love the grind.
And I, and this is the best partabout not coach anymore, I get
to be outside of the fences andlook in and really evaluate
where, when I was in the heartof it, you're doing your thing
you're grinding every day.
And sometimes you don't get thatopportunity to step back and
take a look at what you're doingand breathe from, 30,000 feet.
(21:45):
Do you think the love of thegrind comes from that repetition
and then that day where thelight bulb goes off for that
kid, all of a sudden they getit?
Or all of a sudden for them, oryou get to see that and then
that light bulb becomesownership?
It's not.
It's not what coaches teach'emanymore.
(22:07):
I figured it out.
This is mine.
And don't you need the grind toget there, to get to that
ownership?
I believe so.
Listen, like part of the love ofthe grind for me is I had no
other choice.
I'm not a great player.
I'm not a talented person.
I failed, way more than, and Iwasn't good enough to play here.
I can tell you that.
You and me.
So for me, part of it'spersonal.
(22:29):
It's the things that like, thatI didn't do that I didn't know
that I wasn't good at, that Iwant to help people be better at
maybe seeing a little bit ofmyself and everyone, but for
them, yeah.
The goal is to achieve the bestversions of themselves and for
them to take ownership of it.
And our best teams always areteams that are player led based
on, based on what they havebecome.
(22:49):
And I can go, like I.
I'm terrible at like memorytypes of things, but I could rip
off 30 names of guys that thatall played different roles on
teams that were just hugelyimpactful to our teams for what
they understood what they did ona day-to-day basis, how they
acted, what they said and trulywrapping their arms, like you
said, around what they were andowning what they were, and being
(23:12):
awesome at it.
And loving doing it and lovingdoing it, to me to serve the
greater good of the team and thegroup of people that they loved
in the locker room.
And I also think that reducessome of the stress of the game
and creates some more joy in it.
This game is similar to life andit has no problem kicking you in
the teeth every single day ifyou've let it.
But if you can.
(23:33):
If you can take joy in servingother people and finding
yourself and doing that, I thinkyou really allow your talents
to, to shine through.
You reduce some of the stressinstead of having to punch a
dude out, like you get to do itfor the other guys everywhere.
Instead of having to get a hityou get to, make hard contact
somewhere.
It just, it changes a lot ofthings for kids and I do think
they enjoy it more, but I thinkthat's a.
(23:54):
I it's a long bridge.
I don't know.
It's a, it's for everybody.
It's a difficult bridge tocross.
I.
I'm with you there, and Itotally get that.
'cause I was a grinder.
I, I didn't have the size.
I, I had small hands and shortarms as a basketball player, and
my high school didn't have abaseball team, so I had to play
Po Pony and Colt Legion, andwherever I could play, I had to
play, and nobody wanted tocatch.
(24:16):
So I caught and learned how tobe a great catcher because I
could keep my eyes open on afastball and I could take a
fast, I could take a foul balloff my face and my arm and my
chest, and I wanted more of it,but it was all because of the
grind.
Yeah, it was all because I lovedit and I wanted it every day, so
I very much appreciate that.
Yeah.
I wanna talk about leadershipwith you, coach.
I'm, I could talk to you all dayabout leadership and how you see
(24:39):
the game and how you seeteaching and coaching.
It just, it gets me excited,this is why you hearing you talk
is why I got into it 25, 30years ago.
When you think about.
When you went to CentralMissouri you coached a lot of
different places and had a greatcareer before that.
When you think about CentralMissouri what has it taught you
(24:59):
about leadership and who you areas a leader that maybe you
didn't understand earlier inyour career?
Ah, man, that's a really goodquestion.
This place is so unique.
It's taught me an enormousamount.
It took, it really clarifiedvalues for me that my values off
the field, values on the fieldwith what my goals were for the
players that walked through thedoors here.
(25:21):
It opened up an opportunity tospend, an entire career with
players here, the, collegecareer, the four year career
versus the junior collegecareer.
And I.
It, it did it really clarifiedto me that it, and it forced it,
first of all, how difficult itis playing from the front.
This program has been, I.
(25:42):
Unreal.
Good for 60 years, since 1970.
Yeah.
And so it, man, it's not me.
I didn't build this there, likeBob Tompkins built this, like
Whitey did it.
Stu Rogers did it.
Brad Hill did it.
Darren Hendrickson did it.
Tommy Myers did it.
Like I'm getting to stand on theshoulders of a bunch of giants
and and.
(26:03):
I will tell you, I think that'shorrible.
I think that's more difficult.
It really challenged me becausethere's, everybody puts pressure
on themselves and then when youcome to a place that's supposed
to be what it's been for thelast however long, you gotta
maintain that.
And I really had to take a stepback and go, okay but how do I
do that?
And I can't do it like they did.
I have to do it in a way that'sgenuine to me.
(26:24):
So it forced me to have thoseconversations with myself, with
my wife.
She's really intuitive aboutthings.
She helps an enormous amountand, we all know that wives are
massive supporters and they haveto be this, but she's a big part
of, a great perspective andthought process.
We had to sit down and talkabout what was valuable to us.
If everything goes wrong and youknow nothing right?
Happens on the field and thescoreboard is never in our
(26:46):
favor, and we go, oh, one 50,can we go to sleep at night
doing what we did?
And, it forces you to definewhat those things are and who
you're gonna do it with and howyou're gonna do it.
And so it really clarified somethings.
'Cause the first 10 years of mycoaching career at Hutch, it was
just, I don't even know if Ithought about any of those
things.
It was just like, just, we justgotta go.
(27:07):
We gotta go.
That's right.
We gotta go.
We gotta go.
We gotta go.
We gotta go.
And then, you get to this placeand, feel a little bit of that
weight for me.
In an honest moment.
It was like, okay, if it ain'tthat easy, it's not just gonna
happen.
You have to do something that'sgenuine, to you and that you can
go to sleep with every nightknowing that the results don't
all, they're not promised toyou.
And so that's what we that'swhat this place did for me is it
(27:29):
allowed me to feel good aboutwhat we were gonna do with our
players, regardless of what thescoreboard said.
Do you find.
What your wife does for you,you're having to do for your
players, and how do you go aboutdoing that?
How do you get them if you'vehad a tough loss or you're
having a bad stretch or a guy'snot hitting the ball or pitching
the way he wants to, how do yougo about getting them to take a
(27:52):
step back and look at the bigpicture and go, man, you gotta,
you got a uniform on, you'replaying division two college
baseball, you're playing againstsome of the best players in the
country, and you got this familyaround you.
How do you get them?
To come back to earth with that.
I think it's individual withevery guy.
I think that's whererelationships are so unique and
so special in this business.
(28:14):
And probably the reason why Iget to do it is'cause I get to
hang around people that I,really have a lot in common with
and that I love to be around andI just, I don't want to be in
another environment.
So I think, there's introverts,there's extroverts, there's guys
that are always thinking aboutthe next thing versus guys that
are just, they're living in themoment so much that they can't
get outta their own way.
I think again, like you said,my, my wife does a fantastic job
(28:36):
of seeing things through for me,but then from, as you mentioned,
like a 30,000 foot perspectivetoo.
So I take a lot of cues fromher.
She's an empath.
She really understands people.
She feels and sees things that Ijust would never imagine, and
she's accurate more than I careto admit.
I have that problem at my housetoo, so yeah, she's lied a lot.
And then I have I, I'm verylucky to have worked with the
(28:57):
coaching staff with Coach Backusfor the last eight or nine
years, I think.
And he's he's my work wife ifyou wanna say we have a pretty
good feel for how to do thingsand and so like I've been really
blessed to have really good guysalong the way and we can I don't
wanna say tag team, but we candiscuss.
A lot of our discussions in themorning are about just what you
said, like how guys are playingslash acting slash feeling, and
(29:20):
how we can bring about a betterresult, holistically for them.
To be honest, like I said, my,my default to everything is
we'll just work more, we'll justgo back to work.
'cause you can always believe inthat.
You can always count on that.
You can always be confident init.
And we'll do as much extra as weneed to do until you feel right.
Whoever you is.
Yeah.
And so that's my default.
There are other conversations Ithink that are had, like you
(29:42):
said, to try to maybe relievesome pressure that they're,
putting on themselves unduly.
And there's, these guys havelives outside of baseball and
there's times when those thingsaffect what they're doing.
And just being someone that theycan speak to about those things
is really important.
This is a safe place and we dobelieve in communication and we
value these human beings beyondjust what they do in, on the
field.
And, I, I wanna know ifsomething's happening and
(30:03):
sometimes they're carryingsomething with them that they
need to get off their shouldersand, we want to be able to make
sure that we remind them thatwe're here for them to do that
as well.
And it could be a school thing,it could be a family thing, it
could be a girlfriend thing, itcould be a money thing.
I don't know.
But we wanna try to do the bestthat we can to be to open the
doors, but encourage them tospeak if they need to.
(30:24):
Yeah, and we've had some guy,like those are, those are not
easy conversations for 18 to 22year olds to have.
But we wanna encourage'em tohave'em and know that we value
them beyond what the baseball.
Production is out on the fieldand and that they can and I
think that's where relationshipsget built.
And I think that's where trustgets built.
And those are the things that Ithink last forever, which is why
we're in this.
Yeah.
(30:44):
In any way.
It's so tough with that agegroup.
Heck it's still tough with me inmy fifties, it's getting kids to
understand it's not the end ofthe world.
It's okay not to be okay.
And do you find coach.
What's the ratio of you seeing akid's not right?
You?
There's something changed intheir motion.
In their motion and theircharacter.
(31:04):
They're just quiet.
When they're usually not quiet.
Do you find it's, you go, you oryour staff going to them going,
Hey, you okay?
Or do you find that it's,they're coming to your office so
they're grabbing you afterpractice?
Say, coach, I need talk.
You got a few minutes.
I think most of the time it'smean.
Bye.
I don't know how to defineleadership necessarily, but I
(31:24):
think it's our job, to do that.
Yeah.
We see something.
I think we, our job is to tellthem we see something and
they're, maybe they're not awareof it, maybe nothing's wrong.
Yeah.
But I, we're pretty active aboutit.
If we see something different orif they're acting different,
we're around these guys everysingle day.
I'm around these guys more thanI'm around my family.
Yeah.
If we see something, we again,most of the time, we try to be
(31:45):
proactive with conversations andcommunication.
I'll just ask Hey, what's goingon?
What's happening is something,is something under, underneath
this that's bothering you.
And again, like most of thetime, kids will answer no.
Then I think that opens the doorfor them to come in later after
practice when there's noteverybody in the dugout or
whatever.
Say Hey, you asked, I didn'twant to talk about it, but I do
(32:07):
now.
Yeah.
So I think it needs to beproactive or it is from the
coaching staff.
More often than not, I thinkvery rarely our, I'll tell you
what, our seniors, the guys thathave been here the longest are
the ones most comfortable havingthose conversations.
Yeah.
And they'll, and that always thetruth.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They'll walk right into theoffice, one of, one of our two
offices and.
And sit down'cause they'rewelcome to, to just hang out or
(32:27):
do whatever and and then starttalking.
And that's, again that's, that,that's when we're really doing
good things, right?
That's when we feel like, we'redoing it right for them and for
the program.
And I'm glad that they're, theyfeel confident enough to do
that, but most of the time Ithink we have to start the
conversation.
Yeah.
Thank you so much for thatcoach.
That's.
(32:47):
I want the podcast to be, andit's what I want families and
kids to hear.
This is what you should want.
You should want a coach thatloves you and believes in you.
And yeah, they're gonna win alot of baseball games, but
there's, I.
There's that space betweenchildhood and adulthood that you
get to be with somebody for fouryears that's really gonna help
(33:11):
you learn how to jump into thatadult world.
And you guys just sound like youdo it so well and you care about
doing it so well, man, I don'tknow how well we do it, but we
do care about the kids here andit's not always, so here's the
other side of it, right?
This is like a recruiting talk.
It's not always nice.
This age isn't nice.
Yes.
This life isn't nice And ourguys need to learn how to deal
(33:34):
with that.
Yes.
Because they're gonna go intolife when they leave here and
they're gonna get a wife andthey're gonna get a job with a
boss they don't like, andthey're gonna have a kid and
they're not gonna have sleep.
And there's gonna be a bunch ofthings that go on and they
better learn how to deal withthose things.
Better than anybody else.
That's what the goal is.
Yes.
And not walk away from it.
Not, not be, a poor defaultversion of themselves but a
version that's strong enough tostand up to whatever it is and
(33:56):
handle it the right way.
And, sometimes that doesn't feelgood, yeah.
Sometimes.
Sometimes that's being told youare not doing it right here.
And that doesn't always feelgood.
And so there's that too.
But I think again, like Iwouldn't tell you if I didn't
care about you and I wouldn'ttell you if I didn't think it
applied to this and everythingelse we were doing.
And I hope we do a good job.
(34:17):
I really believe in what we do.
But I'm super biased too.
Yeah, you should be.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we talk about the, theloving and the caring and all
that, but really where it startsis, can you take a kick in the
butt?
Yeah.
Can you adapt and make changes?
Because if nobody's kicking youin the butt, you're never gonna
(34:37):
get from point A to point B.
It's really e either that oryour ga the game you're playing
is too easy.
Yes.
So that's typically, I thinkthat one of the.
I think one of the biggestadjustments guys have to make
when they get here, and it don'tmatter what level they come
from, man, most of the time weget high school kids most of the
time.
I think our roster.
I would call it unique at ourlevel.
(34:57):
'cause most of our rosters builtfrom high school age kids that
come on up and play.
We get a junior college guyevery now and again and a
transfer from somewhere elsetoo.
And it doesn't matter where theycome from, there's a good chance
they're gonna fail when they gethere.
Yeah.
They're not gonna be the bestplayer on the field, I can
guarantee that.
And their response to thosethings are, that's like you
said, you're gonna have to learnhow to handle that.
(35:18):
And you're gonna have to learnhow to be humbled wherever
you're coming from and know,like this may be the first time
you failed.
And and how you deal with thatis probably gonna dictate a lot
about how this at least firstyear is gonna go.
But more than likely the rest ofyour career.
So that's also a part of it.
I'm with you, coach.
100%.
I've got a strange question foryou and you may not have a good
answer and that's okay.
'cause it's a little out thereand I'm gonna you'll probably
(35:39):
call me tomorrow and go, Matt, Iwish I would've said this.
'cause it's this type ofquestion.
I told you I'm a slow processor.
I am too.
I am too.
So I hate to do this to you.
When you think about yourprogram, what part of your
program do you believe wouldn'tmake sense to an outsider, but
is absolutely essential to whatyou do?
(36:00):
If somebody saw your practicesor a drill or what you do as a
team, is there something thatmay not make sense to a parent
or a high school?
I wouldn't even say a highschool coach'cause they usually
get it, but is there somethingthat just wouldn't make sense to
somebody that wasn't in thereevery day?
Probably there's probably almostall of our practices.
(36:22):
Are designed to be reallydifficult.
But I, if I were gonna I can, Ican't separate I'm gonna pick
two things.
Our conditioning and then ourgame day pre-game batting
practice for everybody to seeare things that I think most
people that know the game, thatdon't know the game, everybody
looks at and goes, what are theydoing?
(36:43):
And why?
And I've had it argue with me.
Not argued, discussed whatever.
People, they don't, they're notreally asking why, like, why do
you do that?
I want to do that.
They're asking like, Hey, why doyou do that?
That doesn't jive, that doesn'tmake sense.
I don't think that's right.
But so be it.
But I, I believe in what theyare.
I think our coaching staff, andwe try to change things up every
(37:04):
year, but I think our coachingstaff believes in certain
things.
And our conditioning segment inthe fall is.
Different.
And and then our VP before gamesis different too, I think.
Yeah.
It's amazing that and I've toldyou this.
I've been talking to all thesegreat coaches.
You're one of'em.
I feel like I've talked to theMount Rushmore of division two
coaches this week, and I put youright there.
(37:24):
How, when you, I'll say it.
You don't have to say it, I'llsay it, but for me it's amazing
how many of you talk aboutconditioning.
How important that is to yourprogram and because you don't, I
don't think an outsider wouldunderstand that.
They watch a baseball game andgo, my wife says it's so slow,
(37:44):
and I go, oh, these guys areamazing athletes and they're in
amazing shape.
Do is that a cornerstone foryou?
The conditioning is, yeah, butit, it's not necessarily the c
the carryover of the actualphysical.
Trait from conditioning to thebaseball field necessarily.
And in a lot of regards, thepeople that ask me why we do it
(38:05):
are making good points.
It makes it harder to perform.
Like when we're doing'em, we'redoing it to separate the wheat
from the chaff, so to speak.
Yeah.
So if anybody, it's, it is.
And it's about developing trustand finding who you want in your
foxhole with you and who's gonnado what's required, even though
it ain't pleasant.
And who's willing to take on anextra load if somebody else is
struggling.
(38:26):
And conditioning speaks to a lotof what I think what the guys in
the locker room need.
And they know it sucks, but theyalso know they need it.
And they they want it.
Even though they hate sayingthat the guys that you know that
are back year to year, evenpeople that know they're, look,
they have to do it again.
They are for it.
(38:47):
They support it.
But in the moment, it makesthings tougher.
It makes our on-ramping processlonger.
We, like physically, we beat'emup pretty good.
So a bunch of guys are losingweight.
We've gotta help'em gain weight.
They gotta stay hydrated, theygotta go to class.
They still gotta performbaseball activities on the back
end.
We're making life tougher onthem.
In a lot of ways, in a lot ofthose ways aren't really
(39:08):
applicable directly from thereto the field but in so many
other ways when those guys inthe locker room can all look
around and say, yeah, I saw thatguy do this, I experienced this
with this guy.
It makes it far easier forstarting pitcher to give the
ball to the guy coming outta thepen.
Yeah, the guy outta the pen tothrow the slider.
Three, two, knowing thatcatcher's done what he's done.
And, I think it, it brings'emall closer'cause they're all,
(39:30):
sharing in the suffering.
But I also think it all createsa different kind of trust level
between them too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's it and I think whatoutsiders don't understand when
they come to a college practicelike yours or like mine, like I,
as a basketball coach, therewere so many people that go,
Matt, why?
Why are you guys only shooting?
Three or four free throws inpractice and I go,'cause most of
(39:53):
these kids are only gonna shootthree or four in a game, and I
want everyone to be sopressurized.
That when they get in the game,it doesn't matter if there's
10,000 people in the stadiumscreaming and yelling and
there's one second on the clockand they gotta make a free
throw.
I want every free throw to feellike that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I want them to know thatthey can overcome that anxiety
(40:13):
and that fear.
And a big part of that is beingin great shape and having the
lung capacity, whether you're abaseball player, a pitcher, or a
basketball, it doesn't matter,is having that lung capacity be
like, all right, I can mentallyhandle this.
I'm not worn down.
I can handle that.
That last inning of pitching,'cause I got it.
My arms got it, my, my lungs gotit right.
(40:33):
You can't do anything if you'renot breathing.
Yep.
And there's a skill to findingyour breath and slowing it down
and, finding.
Again, like when you start toaccomplish, the conditioning,
I'm sure for a lot of people, soI don't know that we're doing
anything super different, butbut whatever it is, it's tough
and it's gonna challenge'em.
And most of them have never doneanything like it.
And when they get through it,they've accomplished something
(40:54):
that they never would've thoughtthey could've accomplished
before.
And I think mentally thatcarries them over, as you said,
over an anxiety hump orsomething else.
But also I think it reallyallows them.
If the direct carryover is this,it's like, Hey, if I could catch
my, if I could push this sledwhen I felt like this, yeah.
I guarantee you I can throw thispitch when I feel like this.
So awesome.
Yeah.
(41:14):
Awesome, coach.
I got some rapid fire fun onesfor you.
I've pushed you today and you'vebeen great and yeah, I've thrown
some crazy stuff at you.
Are you up for some fun ones?
Yeah.
Come on.
Anything.
All right.
If you're playing today, what'syour walkup song?
For me.
Yeah.
That's a really good one.
(41:34):
It's gonna be Wolf and Man byMetallica.
Oh yeah.
Now we're talking, speak of mylanguage.
Favorite post-game meal, win orlose.
Is there something you crave?
I will not eat if we lose.
And if we win.
Oof.
Pork chops.
Pork chops.
A good pork chop.
Chop me too.
More satisfying.
(41:56):
A perfectly executed hit andrun.
Or picking off a runner at thirdo.
I, a hit and run for me.
That's, yeah.
Sorry.
No, I'm with you.
If you weren't coachingbaseball, what would you be
doing?
I've been asked that a lot.
I don't have a great answer.
(42:16):
It's a tough one for somebodythat's so passionate about
coaching.
It's a tough one for me too.
Yeah I think I probably, I wouldprobably be in the military
probably.
Yeah.
I tell people that all the time.
I wish that's what I would'vedone.
I wish I would've put morethought into that at 18.
Me too.
Because I saw my nephew do it,and I just saw how, what that
(42:37):
did for him when he came out ofthat and the type of human being
he is now, yeah.
What he learned.
So I'm with you there.
A player or coach you'd mostlike to share a dugout with?
Past or present?
I'm, wow.
I've been really blessed toshare the dugout with some
special people.
And I, there are so many peoplethat I look up to, I'll tell you
(42:58):
this because it's recency bias.
I think you brought'em up and Ihave heard some just incredible
things.
But Coach Brooks at Angelo Ihave heard some things just
about his feel for seeing thegame.
Yeah.
And his ability to predictwhat's gonna happen before it
happens.
I would be fascinated to be inthe dugout with him.
(43:19):
I have an enormous amount ofrespect for him, enormous amount
of respect for Coach Urso too.
I have no idea how he does whathe does, but man, it's hard to
play against and it's it's funto watch.
But yeah I've heard some thingsabout Coach Brooks all good,
that are, that almost otherworldly that I think I would,
that I would really like to, I'dreally like to be a part of and
(43:40):
see.
I just spent about an hour and ahalf with him.
So I see so many similarities inyou two and how you see the game
and what I love about both ofyou is you just simplify it.
You're able to take somethingthat's really complicated and
see the nucleus of it veryclearly.
And I, I think that's what makesa great coach when you can take
big ideas and say this is reallythe key to that.
(44:02):
This is how we get to that bigidea.
So I'm with you there.
Coach, thank you so much.
I'm excited to do a recruitingsegment with you, but thank you
so much for doing this andthanks for being who you are and
caring so much about these kidsand doing it right, even though
we're both couple old menyelling at cars to slow down.
(44:22):
We're trying to keep the heartof why we coach and why we play
the game.
As the centerpiece for thesekids.
So it means a lot to me.
I appreciate, the invite on.
I am as I guess really talky.
So I'm happy to do this.
It's the first one I've everdone.
I really enjoy it.
So I, and I can go on forever.
So I really appreciate theopportunity to speak and thank
you very much.
You got some big games coming upand just know we'll be cheering
(44:44):
for you.
You've got a big fan in me andif there's anything I can ever
do for you and the boys in theprogram or your family, don't
hesitate to call.
I appreciate that offer.
Thank you so much.
It means a lot.
That's a wrap on today'sconversation with Coach Kyle
Crooks for managing a nationallyelite roster to identifying
recruits who truly fit the mulesbaseball culture.
(45:06):
Coach reminded us that greatprograms aren't built overnight.
They're built on consistency,clarity, and connection.
If this episode added value foryou, don't forget to subscribe,
rate and share the podcast andhead over to coach matt
rogers.com to sign up for theweekly newsletter where I share
tools, strategy, and perspectiveto help you lead and recruit
(45:27):
with significance.
And be sure to check out the newrecruiting journals, dropping
this summer.
Designed as companion tools tomy five star rated book
significant recruiting, theplaybook for prospective college
athletes, these sports specificguides will help athletes stay
focused, document their journey,and prepare for college
conversations that matter.
(45:48):
Hey, thanks for listening, andremember, significance is
greater than success.
See you next time.
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