June 16, 2025 ā¢ 33 mins
šļø Significant Recruiting Podcast ā Featuring Dan Mickle
In this episode, Iām joined by Dan Mickle, Head Volleyball Coach at York College of Pennsylvania and a certified mental performance consultant. We dive deep into what it really takes for volleyball players to stand out in todayās recruiting landscapeāand it goes far beyond stats and highlight reels.
Dan shares:
- How mental performance plays a critical role in recruiting
- What coaches are looking for beyond talent
- How parents can recognize when their child is struggling mentally
- Tips for helping athletes play with joy, confidence, and purpose
Whether your daughter is navigating high school, club, or starting the recruiting process, this episode is packed with perspective every volleyball family should hear.
š Now available on Amazon:
The Softball Recruitās Journal ā Your step-by-step guide to owning the recruiting journey with tools for communication, visits, decision-making, and more. Volleyball edition coming soon!
š Learn more, listen to past episodes, and schedule a free recruiting or coaching session at: coachmattrogers.com
Learn more and connect with Matt Rogers here: https://linktr.ee/coachmattrogers
Listen on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, iHeartRadio, and all your favorite podcast platforms.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I want an email from your emailaccount to my email account,
(00:06):
Gmail school account, whateverthat may be.
Yeah.
I don't want it from yourrecruiting platform.
I'll be honest, my email is setup and it's filtered anything
that comes from all.
Recruiting platforms and I'm notbashing them.
They serve their purpose and Iabsolutely get them.
Yes.
They all go into one inbox andeverything else goes into
(00:29):
another inbox.
And that first inbox gets thelooks first, and then I move to
the recruiting website emails.
Welcome back to another bonusepisode of Significant
Recruiting.
I'm your host, coach MattRogers.
Today's episode is different.
It's honest, it's bold, and insome ways it might make a few
people uncomfortable, but that'skind of the point.
(00:51):
When I sat down with Coach DanMiCell, head volleyball coach at
York College of Pennsylvania.
We didn't just talk aboutvolleyball recruiting.
I hope you'll stick around tothe end of today's podcast
because we did talk aboutsomething.
I believe many in our world ofcollege athletics are afraid to
address the ways that publicexpression of your personal
beliefs can impact yourrecruitment.
(01:13):
Now, let me be clear.
This is not a conversation aboutjudgment.
We are not telling people whatto believe nor criticizing how
anyone makes their choices, but.
What we are doing is pullingback the curtain on a real truth
for recruits and their families.
When you post something online,no matter how genuine or well
intended, it becomes part ofyour digital footprint, and
(01:35):
coaches are watching.
Coach Michel and I went there.
We went into the darkness, intothe uncomfortable, into the,
aren't we not supposed to talkabout that zone?
Why?
Because if you're a youngathlete with dreams of playing
in college or a parent helpingthat child on that journey, you
deserve to know the fullpicture.
You deserve to be informed abouthow your online presence may
(01:57):
affect your opportunities, evenwhen maybe it shouldn't.
So buckle in.
And just a heads up, this ispart two of my conversation with
Coach Mickel.
So I encourage you to go back toFriday's episode so you can
fully understand how a collegecoach evaluates their roster and
how they build culture andcommunity.
Coach Mickel is great at it, butfor now, this is one of the most
(02:18):
layered conversations we've everhad on the show.
Here's my conversation withCoach Dan Mickel, York College
head volleyball coach, USAvolleyball, Paralympic coach,
sports psychology expert, andsomeone who isn't afraid to talk
about what really matters.
Let's get into it.
Coach Mickel, thanks for beingon today.
You and I just had a greatconversation on coaching and
(02:41):
mental performance, but I reallywant our audience to get a great
sense of how you think aboutrecruiting, how you recruit.
I know that you told me thatyou, right now, you're roster
sizes around 21 and you broughtin nine freshmen.
Let's talk about that mentality.
Where does that start?
(03:01):
Why the 21?
Why the nine freshmen?
Yeah, so my typical roster sizeis around 18.
What we ran into is I, we justhave some injuries that I'm just
not sure, are we gonna be goodto go at the beginning of the
year?
So I could walk in with a rosterof 13 that are playable if I
(03:24):
didn't recruit heavily.
And the other part was there'sjust.
Some really good talent that wasavailable to us, and I would've
been kicking myself if I sawthem in another uniform.
Yeah.
And the plan was, the planstarted during the recruiting
process being very open andhonest with everyone saying,
look, we're gonna have a bigroster.
(03:47):
Not only do we have 21, but Ionly graduate two, positive is
this is gonna be our group for afew years.
Yeah.
But just getting everyone tounderstand look, you're gonna
have to work for this.
If you're not the type that'sgoing to fight and work, then
this isn't gonna work for you.
I don't care if you're a senior,I don't care if you're a junior.
(04:08):
It's gonna be who's gonna giveus the best team?
And that's subjective, right?
That might change from week toweek, night to night.
And maybe some of them won'tagree with the decisions we
make, but it won't be because oflack of effort right now.
And but everyone coming in knew,Hey, this is how many we have in
your position.
(04:29):
This is what we're looking at.
This is the long-term plan.
As long as there's truth on thefront end.
We know that competition is thecure for complacency.
We know kids are gonna come inand they're gonna have to give
their best because if they wannaplay, they've gotta, they've
gotta work hard.
A lot of my questions are reallydesigned for you when it comes
(04:51):
to recruiting.
If I put you in a gym or put youin your office watching film.
How much weight do you place ona recruit's mental game?
Things like resilience, focus,composure compared to their
physical skills a ton?
Probably more than most becausefor me athletically, such a fine
(05:13):
difference between players andtheir skillset.
There can be a huge differencebetween their mental mindset to
set them apart, and I thinkwe're really good at coaching
the skills of volleyball.
So I feel like if we havesomeone that comes in with a
good mindset, it's easier forcoach them the volleyball that
we want them to play than tocoach them the mindset we want
(05:34):
them to have on the team.
The mindset could hurt.
The culture of the program a lotmore than being bad at
volleyball.
On the other side of that, aresometimes you looking for a
uniqueness of that mental sideof that kid that can make your
team stronger as much as you'relooking for the red flags.
Yeah.
I have a player coming in thisyear that was gonna play on a
(05:59):
top team, but another team.
And the program was going tofold because they didn't have
enough players, and she opted toplay with that team to help that
team not fold in a position thatshe's not going to play for us
in college.
It's rare that you get a bigbeacon like, yep, you pick the
right one.
But that's absolutely a signlike, yep, this is exactly what
(06:23):
we should be recruiting.
She absolutely put that programand that team and those girls
before her,'cause she could havejust stayed on that top team and
played her position and, beenwhatever.
She didn't love that.
That gets me so excited too.
It's a great transition intothis question.
What does fit mean to you whenyou're evaluating then and can a
(06:43):
player highly skilled but stillnot the right fit, fit your
program.
Absolutely.
It's tough to define fit.
Yeah.
You just know it, right?
Yeah.
When you have it.
I'll tell you my secret forrecruiting.
I don't wanna spoil any of yourquestions that you might have,
but I almost always show up dayone, not wearing any of my
(07:05):
school stuff.
I have my headphones on, so I'mnot hearing anything.
I'm just watching the bodylanguage, what that player's
doing, how they're interacting.
I'm not being biased by whatparents might be saying around
me or what I hear going on.
Most of the time they don't knowit's me because I'm not wearing
(07:27):
any of the York stuff orwhatever, and it just gives me a
chance to see them.
Without them knowing I'm there.
And that's where the fit partcomes in.
What are you like during thetimeout?
For me, that's huge.
What are you, like in betweenmatches?
What do you like in a timeout?
How do you take correction?
I always liked Who are youlooking at when things go bad?
(07:49):
Are you looking in the stancefor mom and dad?
Are you looking for advice?
Are you looking at your coach?
That, that, that's always sohuge for me.
Yeah.
And are you looking at yourselfex Exactly.
Are you, and I love that.
I'm not a big fan of the playersthat like, redo the play.
Like you miss a pass and thenthey stand there and do the pass
motion like three times.
(08:11):
I'm not a huge fan of that, butI like when they sit there and
go, okay, what could I havedone?
If I can't figure that out, thenI'm gonna ask my coach or look
at my coach.
Yeah.
And you can, and some people I'mlike how can you tell?
Like you can tell.
Yeah, you can tell when aplayer's on the court and
they're thinking through itversus being over critically of
I'm horrible.
I suck at this.
(08:31):
You can just see it in the bodylanguage and the tone when
they're actually working throughtrying to figure out versus
being overly critical ofthemselves.
Okay.
Let's give some advice toparents.
Got a kid that's doing that.
I've got a kid, she'll shank aball and she'll, she'll do the
motion three or four times.
It drives me crazy too.
You got a kid that's beatsthemselves up and they, you can
(08:52):
see that they're going down ahole'cause they shanked one or
two or Mr.
Serve.
What advice do we give toparents that they can give their
kid and they can have a cohealthy conversation about how
to deal with those situations?
As a player, you just give itsome time.
If you miss a pass, cares.
(09:13):
Now, if you miss three passes,now we gotta have this talk.
We're so quick to over adjust.
For one simple mistake, you pass300 balls in a tournament, it's
your 301st ball, and you pass itbad, and then you're gonna dwell
on it, but you pass 299 of themperfectly right?
Or adequately, so it's just amatter of, come back to me when
(09:35):
this mistake happens again.
And that's even something I dowith my team, not just like when
I'm looking at recruiting, iswhat happens after that mistake.
Is she dwelling on it?
And if she is it because she'supset that she missed it or is
she actually again, trying tofigure out what went wrong?
And if it's that kid trying tofigure out what went wrong, we
have to tell them growth happensfrom the mistakes.
(09:55):
Yeah.
You don't have to reflect on itnow.
I really, and I watch a ton ofclub volleyball like, like you
do.
I love the kids that respondwith energy.
They go, all right, that wasmine.
I want another one.
Bring another one.
They don't let their energy godown because of a bad play,
because I think that's sinkinginto sand, that quick sand, now
(10:17):
I'm gonna, now I'm gonna getsmall.
I'm gonna let my whole energyget small because I made a
mistake.
Nope.
I wanna see that energy go backup.
Do you like that?
Yeah.
I like to see the throttle down.
Keep the energy going.
Yeah.
And sadly on the recruitingtrail, you see it so bad the
other way.
A kid will make a mistake.
They know that I'm standingthere and then they go small.
(10:38):
Yeah.
I just messed up.
They're not gonna want me.
No.
Everyone messes up.
I wanna see how you recover fromit.
That's right.
Because that tells me more aboutyou than your actual skill is
how you recover from it.
Are there any not obvious redflags that are an immediate, I'm
taking this kid off my list.
I know they can't play for me.
(10:59):
I know that this is gonna be apet peeve or an issue for me.
I struggle connecting withsilent ones.
Yeah.
The ones that'll make a mistake.
Then just go to the end of thebench or hide and you would
think it might be the opposite.
I don't mind the confrontationalones.
(11:19):
If you are arguing.
If I see you arguing with yourco Now I should say there's a
difference between arguing andadvocating, right?
If you mess up and the kid ishey, I went for it.
This is why I went for it, andI'll go for it.
And there's that argument withthe coach.
I respect that.
'cause you're passionate aboutwhat you're doing.
There's a difference if you'relike, I'm not doing that play.
(11:41):
This is, bs.
You know what I mean?
So it's there's that fine line.
But I deal I find I can dealwith the confrontational players
a little bit better than I canwith the silent ones because the
silent ones you I just don'tknow, are like, are they just
upset?
And at one point they're justgonna completely unload and
explode and it's gonna be thisbig mess.
Or are they scared to saysomething and afraid and, so
(12:03):
it's tough.
So not only that I would sayit's a complete red flag, but if
it's a toss up, and I'm looking,that's something that's gonna
sway me is are you passionenough to fight for what you
believe in you did?
Tell me if I'm wrong, or tell meif you see this differently, but
for me.
Trust is such a big part ofrecruitment.
I need to be able to look atthat kid and go, I can trust
(12:24):
you.
And we talked about this in thebeginning of our conversation.
I can trust that when I thinkyou're hurting and I ask you if
you're hurting, that you'regonna tell me, yeah, coach, I
can play, but my shoulder'sbothering me, my knee's
bothering me.
And the quiet ones, I'm worriedthat I'm gonna be able to build
(12:45):
that trust with them.
Yeah.
It's almost like they're soscared to say the wrong thing.
They don't say anything.
And I need that data.
Like I need those conversationsso I can build my profile of
you.
I have, I literally get probably30, 40 emails a day and trying
to parse all these kids.
(13:06):
Sort them before you even get achance to look at them.
It comes down to what are yousaying to me?
Yeah.
My daughter's club team, there's11 girls and 10 of them.
If I say, Hey, great game, orkeep your head up I get a
response back.
Thank you.
Thanks for being here.
Appreciate that.
And then there's one that won'tsay a word to me.
(13:27):
I won't say thank you.
It's like I'm not even sure sheheard me and we were looking at
each other in the eyes and I'mso wor that's the kid that's got
the most potential to playcollege volleyball outta the
whole group.
And I'm worried that she can'tcommunicate with coaches.
Yeah.
And I think this is where I runinto problems where it gets
(13:48):
blurry between the sports psychside and the college side for me
is I.
Then I start to worry.
It's what?
Shut her down or has she alwaysbeen shut down?
Yeah.
Or did she have a coach that wasjust always yelling at her?
So now she just doesn't want totalk Because and I don't worry,
I don't worry so much that kidwon't be a fit, but that's
(14:08):
usually a sign that they'reheaded for burnout.
Yeah.
So then it's not always so muchthe, is this kid a fit for my
culture?
I go in to invest a year or twoyears of my time and then his
player's gonna wash out becausethey just don't enjoy it
anymore.
When you're getting 30 to 40emails and 10, 15 phone calls a
week from kids that wanna playfor you, do you really need to
(14:32):
put much energy into a kidthat's, that you automatically
are like, I'm not sure if I cancoach this kid.
I don't know what it's gonna belike to coach this kid.
And that's.
I have very specific questionsthat I ask when we have that
phone call, when we start thingsoff, that typically help me
(14:53):
gauge that to try and breakthrough that wall to find out,
are you just shy?
Are you just introverted?
I get that and I appreciate thatand I can work with that.
Or is it just going to be.
Struggle, constant struggleevery day in the gym.
Yeah.
Am I am I going to have to fightjust to build a foundational
(15:13):
relationship with you to get tofigure out who you are and to
figure out how I can coach you,right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
One of my biggest things, andmaybe this should have been on
the other half of the podcastbut it comes down to the
recruiting side, is.
Short of having to call 9 1 1for a medical emergency.
(15:34):
Once you're on my team, I needto be your first call for
everything.
Yeah.
Your meal plan's not working.
I'm your first call.
You can't get the class youwant.
I'm your first call.
My car broke down on my way backfrom my inter I'm your first
call and it's not because I'mgoing to fix everything, but
it's because.
(15:56):
I'll help you, but I also needto know what's going on.
And when you have the bigmoments where they need to call
you, then it's not hard for themto pick up the phone, right?
Like I might be failing a class.
Okay, you need to call me firstand we'll talk about how you
need to talk to your professor.
I.
It's much easier to have thatthan the, Hey, I got busted for
underage drinking last night ata party.
(16:16):
But if we do the low hanging andthe easy conflict first, when it
is, hopefully it never is, butwhen it is a big issue, that
phone call's easy.
Yeah.
So that's what I look at whenI'm recruiting and I know that's
looking maybe at the bad side,but am I able to have a
conversation with this kid thatI'm recruiting if something goes
wrong?
(16:37):
Is that the vibe I'm getting oris it not?
Let's talk about communication alittle bit more.
I teach my clients, the kids Iwork with to send an email.
And I say that's importantbecause the coach needs your
information.
They need to know where they canfind your film and your grades.
They need all that.
But if you're not having a phonecall or a face-to-face
(17:00):
conversation with that coach.
Getting a chance to hear theirvoice and their tone and their
energy, and giving that coach achance to hear your voice and
your tone and your energy.
Something's wrong.
In the last five, 10 years,texts, dms, social media,
someone has told these familiesthat's more important to be on
(17:20):
social media for recruitment.
Where do you stand with the everevolving world of communication
and recruiting?
I want an email from your emailaccount to my email account,
Gmail school account, whateverthat may be.
Yeah.
I don't want it from yourrecruiting platform.
(17:43):
I'll be honest, my email is setup and it's filtered anything
that comes from certain all.
Recruiting platforms and I'm notbashing them.
They serve their purpose and Iabsolutely get them.
Yes.
They all go into one inbox andeverything else goes into
another inbox.
(18:04):
And that first inbox gets thelooks first, and then I move to
the recruiting website emails.
Yep.
I was, same way.
We're on social media.
I'll look at social media, but Iwon't recruit through social
media.
If you DM me, I will maybe sendyou like, Hey, here's my email,
or here's our recruitingquestionnaire, but I'm not gonna
have a conversation over socialmedia.
(18:25):
Thank you.
It's just, it's crazy it's just,it's not efficient.
But more importantly, it's hardto go back and look at
information by the time I gothrough all my dms and I look, I
don't remember who that middlewas that I just talked to two
days ago with an email.
Everything's tagged.
Like I tag every email thatcomes from a recruit, what year
(18:45):
you are, what position you are.
And whether or not you filledout our questionnaire.
Yep.
Everyone's tagged.
Yep.
The social media, I just pushnow from a visibility
standpoint.
Sure.
Like my team I'll tell youanyone we look at, I'm very
open.
Hey.
This recruit's gonna be oncampus.
This is who we're looking at.
My team scours social media,because they don't want anyone
(19:10):
coming into our program thatdoesn't fit our culture.
Yep.
So by the time it gets to me,they've already been vetted for
the most part.
And there absolutely has been.
One of my players says, Hey,this recruit you're looking at,
just post a whole bunch ofvideos of her drunk at a party,
at 17 and.
That's a deal killer for me.
There are very few deal killersfor me, but, and I get it, we
(19:32):
all went through high school.
I'm not saying everyone needs tobe perfect.
I just don't need the wholeworld seeing you getting drunk
in high school.
Yeah.
'cause if you're gonna do it,then what are you gonna do when
you're under my care?
So like that and drug use arejust an absolute killer for me.
Yeah.
Everything else.
Might, go in the pros or conlists and we'll figure it out.
(19:53):
Yeah.
But those two are me.
But that's been the downfall ofsocial media.
Yeah, because,'cause here's andhere's another secret, and
everyone's gonna get upset abouteveryone makes these, Jenny
Smith, 26 accounts, that's thename of their Instagram account.
Jenny Smith 26.
Then we scour and we find JennySmith's real Instagram account
(20:14):
that isn't her volleyballrecruiting account.
And that's what we look at.
That's right.
And we'll find it too.
We will every, everyone will andagain, for the most part,
nothing's really gonna take yououtta my range unless, like the
drinking thing's just reallytough.
Yeah.
It's just.
It's a hard environment to bringsomeone in, knowing that they're
already gonna be an issue withthat.
(20:36):
For me it's politics andreligion because I appreciate
that you've, you have apolitical leaning.
I appreciate that you'rereligious, but if you're
constantly pouring it down mythroat on social media.
I'm probably walking away fromyou.
I don't care if you're the bestsix four middle I've ever seen.
It's gonna create conflict in myprogram.
(20:57):
It's gonna create conflict withme and I can go either way.
If I've got 18 kids in myprogram and nine of'em are
Republican and nine areDemocrat, and nine are Jewish,
and nine are Catholic, and Idon't care that, that I don't
care.
But if you're using social mediato dump your value system on
everybody that's listening, I'mwalking away.
(21:18):
Those are interesting for us.
Like we, in our conference, wehave a few teams that are
religious schools in ourconference.
And from a team standpoint,we're usually all over the
spectrum of levels and I don'tknow if that's just phased its
way out that we don't evenreally talk about anymore, but
everyone's just like.
(21:40):
Hey, I'm gonna do my thing.
You do your thing and it's noteven an issue.
Yeah.
And we've gotten really com'cause it could be awkward.
We play certain teams that, thatpray after a match and they
always invite the team, Hey,would your team like to pray?
And I always tell my team,that's up to you.
It makes no difference to mewhether you want to join them
and pray with them or not.
(22:00):
I'm totally down.
Do what you wanna do.
And I love that.
You want to.
It doesn't affect anything.
I'm not gonna think highly ofyou.
Less highly of you.
That's right.
It's a nothing for me.
But they are very comfortablewith, Hey, I'm gonna go pray
with this team.
Okay.
I'll wait to have my talk.
And that's, and for me, that'swhat it is for me.
All's I care about is ifeveryone's gonna go or no one's
(22:21):
gonna go, just changes.
Are we gonna have a talk aboutthe match we just played now or
are we gonna wait?
That's right.
And I don't want you to feellike it's gonna affect you
anyway or the other.
That's right.
I've had parents flat out askme, especially now what's your
stance with transgender?
Athletes, during the recruitingprocess.
And it's been like this is whatthe NCAA in my school tell me.
(22:43):
That's right.
Sorry, my dog's going a littlecrazy in the background.
If you can hear that, don't evenhear.
Don't worry.
Yeah.
It's, yeah.
That's the biggest thing.
That's a big trouble now withrecruiting is Yeah.
That's a flashpoint for a lot ofpeople.
And for me, it's, that's mysimple answer.
It doesn't matter what myopinions are because I'm
governed by the ncaa, I'mgoverned by the school.
(23:03):
I'm not even on any committee.
Yeah.
That would even roughly thinkabout that.
Yeah.
I'm the most open-minded coachyou could imagine.
I want a great kid who can play.
And I don't have to worry aboutyou in the classroom.
If you're those three things Iam happy to recruit you, yeah.
(23:23):
It's, if I feel like you'regonna be a problem for the
culture I already have, oryou're gonna be a thorn in my
side in any way, I'm gonna wishyou all the best select, but
you're not gonna be a good fitfor us.
Yeah.
When you're looking at the sheernumbers of recruits and people
that you're looking at.
Every little data point matters.
(23:44):
It does.
And again, it's not about thebeliefs either way, fine with
whatever.
It's just how you deal with itand how you present it.
Two quick ones, and these aren'treally quick ones, but I want to
get your thoughts on it.
The role of how you evaluateparents when you're recruiting a
kid, you have to be a really badsport parent.
(24:07):
For me to have that effectRecruiting your daughter.
But it has happened.
Okay.
I don't like holding a playeraccountable for their parents,
but if the actions of the parentare going to take energy and
attention away from me, that'snot fair to me, and it's not
fair to the team.
(24:28):
Yep.
I agree as, as long as they'renot bigger than their kid or
acting bigger than their kid, oracting as that their needs are
more important than their kid.
I'm all for it.
I love it.
Just because it's so important,I think it needs to be beaten
into the heads of everybody thatlistens to this.
What's the role of academics foryou in recruitment, even though
I probably already know theanswer, I want you to say it.
(24:51):
I'll answer this in a non-directway to start.
We just got our team GPA for theyear, and it's a 3.55 team GPA
with four, four point ohs on theteam.
Fantastic.
Wasn't, and I wasn't happy.
We typically have been thehighest or second highest GPA of
(25:14):
any athletic team last eightyears.
And we've dipped this year.
I'm proud of them.
They all worked really hard.
No one's on probation, no one'seven close to, any academic
ineligibility, but we just havesuch a high standard right now.
That being said, I have threenursing students for exercise
(25:36):
science majors, so it's not likeit's basket weaving, that, that
we're having the issue with.
So they get a little bit of apass on that.
For me, that has to be numberone because if I recruit you and
they're the most, you're only asgood as your availability.
And if you're not goodacademically, what good is
(25:56):
recruiting you if you can'tplay?
Yeah.
That's really big for me.
We try our hardest to make surethat every recruit gets on
campus to sit in on classesbefore they commit to us.
This is what it's going to belike.
I want you to have this visit,even if it's not an overnight
come for the day.
I've never had to do a studyhall or anything crazy.
(26:17):
They just do it.
Like it's just expected thatwe're going to have a high GPA.
But it's how you're recruiting.
You're purposely looking forthose kids that can come in and
have those routines and theyhave high expectations for
themselves in the classroom.
Yeah.
And it comes down to by degreetoo, if I have a nursing student
(26:37):
come in, I.
I evaluate her academicallydifferent than if I have a
sports management student comingin because it's a different
workload.
It's not, that one's easier thanthe other, but sports management
doesn't have a clinical, like Iliterally have players that go
to clinical from 4:00 AM until3:00 PM and then come practice
at 4:00 PM Yeah.
That's different.
And that wasn't a misspeak 4:00AM in the morning to 3:00 PM
(27:02):
Ian.
And here's the part and I've hadgreat conversations with my
nurses about this and it reallyopened up, not only are they
doing these 4:00 AM to 3:00 PMlike these 12 hour clinical
shifts, they're seeing nastystuff.
Some of them are ICU nurses.
Like you literally just watchedsomeone died before you come to
(27:22):
practice.
I never would've thought aboutthat.
Like I just think like you'redoing your clinical and like
I've had players come in, I'mlike, go home like a player
want.
She looked completely exhausted.
What happened?
I was in the ICU today and Iliterally watched a baby die as
part of my clinical.
Go home, go to your dorm.
Go do whatever you have to do.
(27:44):
I don't care about the gametomorrow.
You're still starting.
Go home.
That's right.
So it's like just understandingwhat they go through as students
has been huge for my recruitingprocess because I'll tell kids
like, I don't know that you'llbe able to handle this load.
This might be tough for you.
Yeah, coach, it's fantastic.
And I just, I wanna make thispoint because I brought up
religion and politics.
(28:05):
It, I know you're the same.
We don't differentiate by race,by color, by religion, by
sexuality.
Any coach that's doing thatshould not be in the business.
They really shouldn't.
Yeah.
But it is a matter of how youhandle it.
It doesn't matter if you'restraight or gay, it's how you
(28:26):
handle it and what kind ofperson you are and the
character.
Are you kind?
Are you generous?
Are you a great teammate?
Are you somebody thatunderstands student before
athlete?
Are you somebody thatunderstands empathy?
And no matter your religion, nomatter your politics, at the end
of the day, that's what coachesare looking for.
(28:49):
And it's important that we'renot allowing those really high
character points to decreasebecause of our faith, because of
our politics, because ofanything that might be, might
hurt those characteristics.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
Yeah.
No and if anything, it alsogives us an opportunity to
(29:13):
learn.
And that's how I look at it.
I'm not naive to the fact thatI'm a 50-year-old white male
coaching college volleyball.
So I love to learn what is itlike being an athlete of color
on my campus?
What can I do as a coach to makeyou feel more comfortable?
(29:36):
And that's hard too but that'spart of the recruiting, because
I'm recruiting players that Imight not be familiar with their
socioeconomic or theirbackground.
That's right.
So I.
Maybe that's why they're on theteam.
They are had nothing to do withtheir ability.
They're on the twos team becauseit's a single parent family and
(29:58):
it's tough to make ends meet.
And they're a heck of a playerand they're gonna be awesome,
but they're getting overlooked'cause they're not on that top
team.
But it's not because of talent.
Yeah.
And the last point I know thisis rapid fire and I don't wanna
hog up a whole bunch of time,but it, for me, it all boils
down to I made a shift.
We made a shift a few years ago.
(30:19):
We really rely heavily oncertain clubs.
Like we know which clubs teachand attract the players that we
like.
That's right.
So they're always my go-to whenI'm looking for a middle player,
I gotta find a middle for nextyear.
I'm calling those same six clubsthat I always club'cause I know
they're coached.
I know they care about the kidsand typically the kids coming in
(30:40):
fit our program and all culture.
Yeah.
I no longer am doing the needlein a haystack, looking at 3000
middle recruits from all overthe country.
I'm cashing in on thoserelationships with the clubs and
the coaches that I know well,they're clubs.
They're recruiting.
They're recruiting like you are,and they're literally probably
doing, looking for similar kidsthat you're looking for.
(31:01):
You hope.
But there's also clubs out therethat they'll feed you the line
of BS'cause it looks good forthem to say, oh look, we got
five kids going on to college.
The, the six coaches or clubdirectors that are gonna give
you the straight scoop.
Dan, I don't think this kid's agood fit for you, Dan.
I don't think this kid fits yourculture, Dan.
I don't think this kid's gonnabe happy at your right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've absolutely had coaches thatsay she would be great, but I
(31:24):
don't think she's a fit for yourstyle.
I don't think she's a fit foryour culture.
Yep.
And then on the flip side Heylook, I know that this girl's
undersized for an outside or amiddle, but I'm telling you, she
will grind and make it worth it.
And nine outta 10 times, that'swhat's happens.
We get that kid that peoplepassed on because they were just
athletically looking, but I.
Trust the coach.
(31:44):
Coach, you're awesome.
I hope you know how much Irespect you.
I hope you know how much I'veenjoyed our friendship over the
last couple months and gettingto know you and just very much
appreciate and respect who youare as a person, as a coach, as
a dad, as a husband, and justthankful that we have you in
this world and keep doing whatyou're doing and, if you need
anything, you've got me and I'malways happy to help.
(32:05):
I'll send you the check in themail for that one.
Again, appreciate we, we have tohave these conversations.
We, there just has to be moreconversations like this going
on.
Thanks, coach.
Have a great day.
That's a wrap for this week'ssignificant recruiting podcast.
Thanks again to Coach Dan MiCellfor joining me today.
What a great conversation.
(32:25):
I learned so much, and I'm sothankful that Dan's willing to
have.
Those big picture conversationsthat I think every parent, every
coach, every student athleteneeds to hear.
So thanks to Coach.
If you wanna learn more abouthis work and performance
psychology and coaching, visitdan mickel.com.
You'll find great tools forathletes, coaches, and teams.
(32:46):
And if you haven't yet, checkout my brand new book, the
Softball Recruits Journal nowavailable on Amazon with two
awesome covers to choose from.
It's packed with tools to helpathletes take full control of
their recruiting journey.
You can find the journal freeresources and schedule your free
recruiting strategy session withme@coachmattrogers.com.
(33:07):
Until next time, lead withsignificance, live with purpose,
and as always, own yourrecruiting journey.
I want an email from your emailaccount to my email account,
(00:06):
Gmail school account, whateverthat may be.
Yeah.
I don't want it from yourrecruiting platform.
I'll be honest, my email is setup and it's filtered anything
that comes from all.
Recruiting platforms and I'm notbashing them.
They serve their purpose and Iabsolutely get them.
Yes.
They all go into one inbox andeverything else goes into
(00:29):
another inbox.
And that first inbox gets thelooks first, and then I move to
the recruiting website emails.
Welcome back to another bonusepisode of Significant
Recruiting.
I'm your host, coach MattRogers.
Today's episode is different.
It's honest, it's bold, and insome ways it might make a few
people uncomfortable, but that'skind of the point.
(00:51):
When I sat down with Coach DanMiCell, head volleyball coach at
York College of Pennsylvania.
We didn't just talk aboutvolleyball recruiting.
I hope you'll stick around tothe end of today's podcast
because we did talk aboutsomething.
I believe many in our world ofcollege athletics are afraid to
address the ways that publicexpression of your personal
beliefs can impact yourrecruitment.
(01:13):
Now, let me be clear.
This is not a conversation aboutjudgment.
We are not telling people whatto believe nor criticizing how
anyone makes their choices, but.
What we are doing is pullingback the curtain on a real truth
for recruits and their families.
When you post something online,no matter how genuine or well
intended, it becomes part ofyour digital footprint, and
(01:35):
coaches are watching.
Coach Michel and I went there.
We went into the darkness, intothe uncomfortable, into the,
aren't we not supposed to talkabout that zone?
Why?
Because if you're a youngathlete with dreams of playing
in college or a parent helpingthat child on that journey, you
deserve to know the fullpicture.
You deserve to be informed abouthow your online presence may
(01:57):
affect your opportunities, evenwhen maybe it shouldn't.
So buckle in.
And just a heads up, this ispart two of my conversation with
Coach Mickel.
So I encourage you to go back toFriday's episode so you can
fully understand how a collegecoach evaluates their roster and
how they build culture andcommunity.
Coach Mickel is great at it, butfor now, this is one of the most
(02:18):
layered conversations we've everhad on the show.
Here's my conversation withCoach Dan Mickel, York College
head volleyball coach, USAvolleyball, Paralympic coach,
sports psychology expert, andsomeone who isn't afraid to talk
about what really matters.
Let's get into it.
Coach Mickel, thanks for beingon today.
You and I just had a greatconversation on coaching and
(02:41):
mental performance, but I reallywant our audience to get a great
sense of how you think aboutrecruiting, how you recruit.
I know that you told me thatyou, right now, you're roster
sizes around 21 and you broughtin nine freshmen.
Let's talk about that mentality.
Where does that start?
(03:01):
Why the 21?
Why the nine freshmen?
Yeah, so my typical roster sizeis around 18.
What we ran into is I, we justhave some injuries that I'm just
not sure, are we gonna be goodto go at the beginning of the
year?
So I could walk in with a rosterof 13 that are playable if I
(03:24):
didn't recruit heavily.
And the other part was there'sjust.
Some really good talent that wasavailable to us, and I would've
been kicking myself if I sawthem in another uniform.
Yeah.
And the plan was, the planstarted during the recruiting
process being very open andhonest with everyone saying,
look, we're gonna have a bigroster.
(03:47):
Not only do we have 21, but Ionly graduate two, positive is
this is gonna be our group for afew years.
Yeah.
But just getting everyone tounderstand look, you're gonna
have to work for this.
If you're not the type that'sgoing to fight and work, then
this isn't gonna work for you.
I don't care if you're a senior,I don't care if you're a junior.
(04:08):
It's gonna be who's gonna giveus the best team?
And that's subjective, right?
That might change from week toweek, night to night.
And maybe some of them won'tagree with the decisions we
make, but it won't be because oflack of effort right now.
And but everyone coming in knew,Hey, this is how many we have in
your position.
(04:29):
This is what we're looking at.
This is the long-term plan.
As long as there's truth on thefront end.
We know that competition is thecure for complacency.
We know kids are gonna come inand they're gonna have to give
their best because if they wannaplay, they've gotta, they've
gotta work hard.
A lot of my questions are reallydesigned for you when it comes
(04:51):
to recruiting.
If I put you in a gym or put youin your office watching film.
How much weight do you place ona recruit's mental game?
Things like resilience, focus,composure compared to their
physical skills a ton?
Probably more than most becausefor me athletically, such a fine
(05:13):
difference between players andtheir skillset.
There can be a huge differencebetween their mental mindset to
set them apart, and I thinkwe're really good at coaching
the skills of volleyball.
So I feel like if we havesomeone that comes in with a
good mindset, it's easier forcoach them the volleyball that
we want them to play than tocoach them the mindset we want
(05:34):
them to have on the team.
The mindset could hurt.
The culture of the program a lotmore than being bad at
volleyball.
On the other side of that, aresometimes you looking for a
uniqueness of that mental sideof that kid that can make your
team stronger as much as you'relooking for the red flags.
Yeah.
I have a player coming in thisyear that was gonna play on a
(05:59):
top team, but another team.
And the program was going tofold because they didn't have
enough players, and she opted toplay with that team to help that
team not fold in a position thatshe's not going to play for us
in college.
It's rare that you get a bigbeacon like, yep, you pick the
right one.
But that's absolutely a signlike, yep, this is exactly what
(06:23):
we should be recruiting.
She absolutely put that programand that team and those girls
before her,'cause she could havejust stayed on that top team and
played her position and, beenwhatever.
She didn't love that.
That gets me so excited too.
It's a great transition intothis question.
What does fit mean to you whenyou're evaluating then and can a
(06:43):
player highly skilled but stillnot the right fit, fit your
program.
Absolutely.
It's tough to define fit.
Yeah.
You just know it, right?
Yeah.
When you have it.
I'll tell you my secret forrecruiting.
I don't wanna spoil any of yourquestions that you might have,
but I almost always show up dayone, not wearing any of my
(07:05):
school stuff.
I have my headphones on, so I'mnot hearing anything.
I'm just watching the bodylanguage, what that player's
doing, how they're interacting.
I'm not being biased by whatparents might be saying around
me or what I hear going on.
Most of the time they don't knowit's me because I'm not wearing
(07:27):
any of the York stuff orwhatever, and it just gives me a
chance to see them.
Without them knowing I'm there.
And that's where the fit partcomes in.
What are you like during thetimeout?
For me, that's huge.
What are you, like in betweenmatches?
What do you like in a timeout?
How do you take correction?
I always liked Who are youlooking at when things go bad?
(07:49):
Are you looking in the stancefor mom and dad?
Are you looking for advice?
Are you looking at your coach?
That, that, that's always sohuge for me.
Yeah.
And are you looking at yourselfex Exactly.
Are you, and I love that.
I'm not a big fan of the playersthat like, redo the play.
Like you miss a pass and thenthey stand there and do the pass
motion like three times.
(08:11):
I'm not a huge fan of that, butI like when they sit there and
go, okay, what could I havedone?
If I can't figure that out, thenI'm gonna ask my coach or look
at my coach.
Yeah.
And you can, and some people I'mlike how can you tell?
Like you can tell.
Yeah, you can tell when aplayer's on the court and
they're thinking through itversus being over critically of
I'm horrible.
I suck at this.
(08:31):
You can just see it in the bodylanguage and the tone when
they're actually working throughtrying to figure out versus
being overly critical ofthemselves.
Okay.
Let's give some advice toparents.
Got a kid that's doing that.
I've got a kid, she'll shank aball and she'll, she'll do the
motion three or four times.
It drives me crazy too.
You got a kid that's beatsthemselves up and they, you can
(08:52):
see that they're going down ahole'cause they shanked one or
two or Mr.
Serve.
What advice do we give toparents that they can give their
kid and they can have a cohealthy conversation about how
to deal with those situations?
As a player, you just give itsome time.
If you miss a pass, cares.
(09:13):
Now, if you miss three passes,now we gotta have this talk.
We're so quick to over adjust.
For one simple mistake, you pass300 balls in a tournament, it's
your 301st ball, and you pass itbad, and then you're gonna dwell
on it, but you pass 299 of themperfectly right?
Or adequately, so it's just amatter of, come back to me when
(09:35):
this mistake happens again.
And that's even something I dowith my team, not just like when
I'm looking at recruiting, iswhat happens after that mistake.
Is she dwelling on it?
And if she is it because she'supset that she missed it or is
she actually again, trying tofigure out what went wrong?
And if it's that kid trying tofigure out what went wrong, we
have to tell them growth happensfrom the mistakes.
(09:55):
Yeah.
You don't have to reflect on itnow.
I really, and I watch a ton ofclub volleyball like, like you
do.
I love the kids that respondwith energy.
They go, all right, that wasmine.
I want another one.
Bring another one.
They don't let their energy godown because of a bad play,
because I think that's sinkinginto sand, that quick sand, now
(10:17):
I'm gonna, now I'm gonna getsmall.
I'm gonna let my whole energyget small because I made a
mistake.
Nope.
I wanna see that energy go backup.
Do you like that?
Yeah.
I like to see the throttle down.
Keep the energy going.
Yeah.
And sadly on the recruitingtrail, you see it so bad the
other way.
A kid will make a mistake.
They know that I'm standingthere and then they go small.
(10:38):
Yeah.
I just messed up.
They're not gonna want me.
No.
Everyone messes up.
I wanna see how you recover fromit.
That's right.
Because that tells me more aboutyou than your actual skill is
how you recover from it.
Are there any not obvious redflags that are an immediate, I'm
taking this kid off my list.
I know they can't play for me.
(10:59):
I know that this is gonna be apet peeve or an issue for me.
I struggle connecting withsilent ones.
Yeah.
The ones that'll make a mistake.
Then just go to the end of thebench or hide and you would
think it might be the opposite.
I don't mind the confrontationalones.
(11:19):
If you are arguing.
If I see you arguing with yourco Now I should say there's a
difference between arguing andadvocating, right?
If you mess up and the kid ishey, I went for it.
This is why I went for it, andI'll go for it.
And there's that argument withthe coach.
I respect that.
'cause you're passionate aboutwhat you're doing.
There's a difference if you'relike, I'm not doing that play.
(11:41):
This is, bs.
You know what I mean?
So it's there's that fine line.
But I deal I find I can dealwith the confrontational players
a little bit better than I canwith the silent ones because the
silent ones you I just don'tknow, are like, are they just
upset?
And at one point they're justgonna completely unload and
explode and it's gonna be thisbig mess.
Or are they scared to saysomething and afraid and, so
(12:03):
it's tough.
So not only that I would sayit's a complete red flag, but if
it's a toss up, and I'm looking,that's something that's gonna
sway me is are you passionenough to fight for what you
believe in you did?
Tell me if I'm wrong, or tell meif you see this differently, but
for me.
Trust is such a big part ofrecruitment.
I need to be able to look atthat kid and go, I can trust
(12:24):
you.
And we talked about this in thebeginning of our conversation.
I can trust that when I thinkyou're hurting and I ask you if
you're hurting, that you'regonna tell me, yeah, coach, I
can play, but my shoulder'sbothering me, my knee's
bothering me.
And the quiet ones, I'm worriedthat I'm gonna be able to build
(12:45):
that trust with them.
Yeah.
It's almost like they're soscared to say the wrong thing.
They don't say anything.
And I need that data.
Like I need those conversationsso I can build my profile of
you.
I have, I literally get probably30, 40 emails a day and trying
to parse all these kids.
(13:06):
Sort them before you even get achance to look at them.
It comes down to what are yousaying to me?
Yeah.
My daughter's club team, there's11 girls and 10 of them.
If I say, Hey, great game, orkeep your head up I get a
response back.
Thank you.
Thanks for being here.
Appreciate that.
And then there's one that won'tsay a word to me.
(13:27):
I won't say thank you.
It's like I'm not even sure sheheard me and we were looking at
each other in the eyes and I'mso wor that's the kid that's got
the most potential to playcollege volleyball outta the
whole group.
And I'm worried that she can'tcommunicate with coaches.
Yeah.
And I think this is where I runinto problems where it gets
(13:48):
blurry between the sports psychside and the college side for me
is I.
Then I start to worry.
It's what?
Shut her down or has she alwaysbeen shut down?
Yeah.
Or did she have a coach that wasjust always yelling at her?
So now she just doesn't want totalk Because and I don't worry,
I don't worry so much that kidwon't be a fit, but that's
(14:08):
usually a sign that they'reheaded for burnout.
Yeah.
So then it's not always so muchthe, is this kid a fit for my
culture?
I go in to invest a year or twoyears of my time and then his
player's gonna wash out becausethey just don't enjoy it
anymore.
When you're getting 30 to 40emails and 10, 15 phone calls a
week from kids that wanna playfor you, do you really need to
(14:32):
put much energy into a kidthat's, that you automatically
are like, I'm not sure if I cancoach this kid.
I don't know what it's gonna belike to coach this kid.
And that's.
I have very specific questionsthat I ask when we have that
phone call, when we start thingsoff, that typically help me
(14:53):
gauge that to try and breakthrough that wall to find out,
are you just shy?
Are you just introverted?
I get that and I appreciate thatand I can work with that.
Or is it just going to be.
Struggle, constant struggleevery day in the gym.
Yeah.
Am I am I going to have to fightjust to build a foundational
(15:13):
relationship with you to get tofigure out who you are and to
figure out how I can coach you,right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
One of my biggest things, andmaybe this should have been on
the other half of the podcastbut it comes down to the
recruiting side, is.
Short of having to call 9 1 1for a medical emergency.
(15:34):
Once you're on my team, I needto be your first call for
everything.
Yeah.
Your meal plan's not working.
I'm your first call.
You can't get the class youwant.
I'm your first call.
My car broke down on my way backfrom my inter I'm your first
call and it's not because I'mgoing to fix everything, but
it's because.
(15:56):
I'll help you, but I also needto know what's going on.
And when you have the bigmoments where they need to call
you, then it's not hard for themto pick up the phone, right?
Like I might be failing a class.
Okay, you need to call me firstand we'll talk about how you
need to talk to your professor.
I.
It's much easier to have thatthan the, Hey, I got busted for
underage drinking last night ata party.
(16:16):
But if we do the low hanging andthe easy conflict first, when it
is, hopefully it never is, butwhen it is a big issue, that
phone call's easy.
Yeah.
So that's what I look at whenI'm recruiting and I know that's
looking maybe at the bad side,but am I able to have a
conversation with this kid thatI'm recruiting if something goes
wrong?
(16:37):
Is that the vibe I'm getting oris it not?
Let's talk about communication alittle bit more.
I teach my clients, the kids Iwork with to send an email.
And I say that's importantbecause the coach needs your
information.
They need to know where they canfind your film and your grades.
They need all that.
But if you're not having a phonecall or a face-to-face
(17:00):
conversation with that coach.
Getting a chance to hear theirvoice and their tone and their
energy, and giving that coach achance to hear your voice and
your tone and your energy.
Something's wrong.
In the last five, 10 years,texts, dms, social media,
someone has told these familiesthat's more important to be on
(17:20):
social media for recruitment.
Where do you stand with the everevolving world of communication
and recruiting?
I want an email from your emailaccount to my email account,
Gmail school account, whateverthat may be.
Yeah.
I don't want it from yourrecruiting platform.
(17:43):
I'll be honest, my email is setup and it's filtered anything
that comes from certain all.
Recruiting platforms and I'm notbashing them.
They serve their purpose and Iabsolutely get them.
Yes.
They all go into one inbox andeverything else goes into
another inbox.
(18:04):
And that first inbox gets thelooks first, and then I move to
the recruiting website emails.
Yep.
I was, same way.
We're on social media.
I'll look at social media, but Iwon't recruit through social
media.
If you DM me, I will maybe sendyou like, Hey, here's my email,
or here's our recruitingquestionnaire, but I'm not gonna
have a conversation over socialmedia.
(18:25):
Thank you.
It's just, it's crazy it's just,it's not efficient.
But more importantly, it's hardto go back and look at
information by the time I gothrough all my dms and I look, I
don't remember who that middlewas that I just talked to two
days ago with an email.
Everything's tagged.
Like I tag every email thatcomes from a recruit, what year
(18:45):
you are, what position you are.
And whether or not you filledout our questionnaire.
Yep.
Everyone's tagged.
Yep.
The social media, I just pushnow from a visibility
standpoint.
Sure.
Like my team I'll tell youanyone we look at, I'm very
open.
Hey.
This recruit's gonna be oncampus.
This is who we're looking at.
My team scours social media,because they don't want anyone
(19:10):
coming into our program thatdoesn't fit our culture.
Yep.
So by the time it gets to me,they've already been vetted for
the most part.
And there absolutely has been.
One of my players says, Hey,this recruit you're looking at,
just post a whole bunch ofvideos of her drunk at a party,
at 17 and.
That's a deal killer for me.
There are very few deal killersfor me, but, and I get it, we
(19:32):
all went through high school.
I'm not saying everyone needs tobe perfect.
I just don't need the wholeworld seeing you getting drunk
in high school.
Yeah.
'cause if you're gonna do it,then what are you gonna do when
you're under my care?
So like that and drug use arejust an absolute killer for me.
Yeah.
Everything else.
Might, go in the pros or conlists and we'll figure it out.
(19:53):
Yeah.
But those two are me.
But that's been the downfall ofsocial media.
Yeah, because,'cause here's andhere's another secret, and
everyone's gonna get upset abouteveryone makes these, Jenny
Smith, 26 accounts, that's thename of their Instagram account.
Jenny Smith 26.
Then we scour and we find JennySmith's real Instagram account
(20:14):
that isn't her volleyballrecruiting account.
And that's what we look at.
That's right.
And we'll find it too.
We will every, everyone will andagain, for the most part,
nothing's really gonna take yououtta my range unless, like the
drinking thing's just reallytough.
Yeah.
It's just.
It's a hard environment to bringsomeone in, knowing that they're
already gonna be an issue withthat.
(20:36):
For me it's politics andreligion because I appreciate
that you've, you have apolitical leaning.
I appreciate that you'rereligious, but if you're
constantly pouring it down mythroat on social media.
I'm probably walking away fromyou.
I don't care if you're the bestsix four middle I've ever seen.
It's gonna create conflict in myprogram.
(20:57):
It's gonna create conflict withme and I can go either way.
If I've got 18 kids in myprogram and nine of'em are
Republican and nine areDemocrat, and nine are Jewish,
and nine are Catholic, and Idon't care that, that I don't
care.
But if you're using social mediato dump your value system on
everybody that's listening, I'mwalking away.
(21:18):
Those are interesting for us.
Like we, in our conference, wehave a few teams that are
religious schools in ourconference.
And from a team standpoint,we're usually all over the
spectrum of levels and I don'tknow if that's just phased its
way out that we don't evenreally talk about anymore, but
everyone's just like.
(21:40):
Hey, I'm gonna do my thing.
You do your thing and it's noteven an issue.
Yeah.
And we've gotten really com'cause it could be awkward.
We play certain teams that, thatpray after a match and they
always invite the team, Hey,would your team like to pray?
And I always tell my team,that's up to you.
It makes no difference to mewhether you want to join them
and pray with them or not.
(22:00):
I'm totally down.
Do what you wanna do.
And I love that.
You want to.
It doesn't affect anything.
I'm not gonna think highly ofyou.
Less highly of you.
That's right.
It's a nothing for me.
But they are very comfortablewith, Hey, I'm gonna go pray
with this team.
Okay.
I'll wait to have my talk.
And that's, and for me, that'swhat it is for me.
All's I care about is ifeveryone's gonna go or no one's
(22:21):
gonna go, just changes.
Are we gonna have a talk aboutthe match we just played now or
are we gonna wait?
That's right.
And I don't want you to feellike it's gonna affect you
anyway or the other.
That's right.
I've had parents flat out askme, especially now what's your
stance with transgender?
Athletes, during the recruitingprocess.
And it's been like this is whatthe NCAA in my school tell me.
(22:43):
That's right.
Sorry, my dog's going a littlecrazy in the background.
If you can hear that, don't evenhear.
Don't worry.
Yeah.
It's, yeah.
That's the biggest thing.
That's a big trouble now withrecruiting is Yeah.
That's a flashpoint for a lot ofpeople.
And for me, it's, that's mysimple answer.
It doesn't matter what myopinions are because I'm
governed by the ncaa, I'mgoverned by the school.
(23:03):
I'm not even on any committee.
Yeah.
That would even roughly thinkabout that.
Yeah.
I'm the most open-minded coachyou could imagine.
I want a great kid who can play.
And I don't have to worry aboutyou in the classroom.
If you're those three things Iam happy to recruit you, yeah.
(23:23):
It's, if I feel like you'regonna be a problem for the
culture I already have, oryou're gonna be a thorn in my
side in any way, I'm gonna wishyou all the best select, but
you're not gonna be a good fitfor us.
Yeah.
When you're looking at the sheernumbers of recruits and people
that you're looking at.
Every little data point matters.
(23:44):
It does.
And again, it's not about thebeliefs either way, fine with
whatever.
It's just how you deal with itand how you present it.
Two quick ones, and these aren'treally quick ones, but I want to
get your thoughts on it.
The role of how you evaluateparents when you're recruiting a
kid, you have to be a really badsport parent.
(24:07):
For me to have that effectRecruiting your daughter.
But it has happened.
Okay.
I don't like holding a playeraccountable for their parents,
but if the actions of the parentare going to take energy and
attention away from me, that'snot fair to me, and it's not
fair to the team.
(24:28):
Yep.
I agree as, as long as they'renot bigger than their kid or
acting bigger than their kid, oracting as that their needs are
more important than their kid.
I'm all for it.
I love it.
Just because it's so important,I think it needs to be beaten
into the heads of everybody thatlistens to this.
What's the role of academics foryou in recruitment, even though
I probably already know theanswer, I want you to say it.
(24:51):
I'll answer this in a non-directway to start.
We just got our team GPA for theyear, and it's a 3.55 team GPA
with four, four point ohs on theteam.
Fantastic.
Wasn't, and I wasn't happy.
We typically have been thehighest or second highest GPA of
(25:14):
any athletic team last eightyears.
And we've dipped this year.
I'm proud of them.
They all worked really hard.
No one's on probation, no one'seven close to, any academic
ineligibility, but we just havesuch a high standard right now.
That being said, I have threenursing students for exercise
(25:36):
science majors, so it's not likeit's basket weaving, that, that
we're having the issue with.
So they get a little bit of apass on that.
For me, that has to be numberone because if I recruit you and
they're the most, you're only asgood as your availability.
And if you're not goodacademically, what good is
(25:56):
recruiting you if you can'tplay?
Yeah.
That's really big for me.
We try our hardest to make surethat every recruit gets on
campus to sit in on classesbefore they commit to us.
This is what it's going to belike.
I want you to have this visit,even if it's not an overnight
come for the day.
I've never had to do a studyhall or anything crazy.
(26:17):
They just do it.
Like it's just expected thatwe're going to have a high GPA.
But it's how you're recruiting.
You're purposely looking forthose kids that can come in and
have those routines and theyhave high expectations for
themselves in the classroom.
Yeah.
And it comes down to by degreetoo, if I have a nursing student
(26:37):
come in, I.
I evaluate her academicallydifferent than if I have a
sports management student comingin because it's a different
workload.
It's not, that one's easier thanthe other, but sports management
doesn't have a clinical, like Iliterally have players that go
to clinical from 4:00 AM until3:00 PM and then come practice
at 4:00 PM Yeah.
That's different.
And that wasn't a misspeak 4:00AM in the morning to 3:00 PM
(27:02):
Ian.
And here's the part and I've hadgreat conversations with my
nurses about this and it reallyopened up, not only are they
doing these 4:00 AM to 3:00 PMlike these 12 hour clinical
shifts, they're seeing nastystuff.
Some of them are ICU nurses.
Like you literally just watchedsomeone died before you come to
(27:22):
practice.
I never would've thought aboutthat.
Like I just think like you'redoing your clinical and like
I've had players come in, I'mlike, go home like a player
want.
She looked completely exhausted.
What happened?
I was in the ICU today and Iliterally watched a baby die as
part of my clinical.
Go home, go to your dorm.
Go do whatever you have to do.
(27:44):
I don't care about the gametomorrow.
You're still starting.
Go home.
That's right.
So it's like just understandingwhat they go through as students
has been huge for my recruitingprocess because I'll tell kids
like, I don't know that you'llbe able to handle this load.
This might be tough for you.
Yeah, coach, it's fantastic.
And I just, I wanna make thispoint because I brought up
religion and politics.
(28:05):
It, I know you're the same.
We don't differentiate by race,by color, by religion, by
sexuality.
Any coach that's doing thatshould not be in the business.
They really shouldn't.
Yeah.
But it is a matter of how youhandle it.
It doesn't matter if you'restraight or gay, it's how you
(28:26):
handle it and what kind ofperson you are and the
character.
Are you kind?
Are you generous?
Are you a great teammate?
Are you somebody thatunderstands student before
athlete?
Are you somebody thatunderstands empathy?
And no matter your religion, nomatter your politics, at the end
of the day, that's what coachesare looking for.
(28:49):
And it's important that we'renot allowing those really high
character points to decreasebecause of our faith, because of
our politics, because ofanything that might be, might
hurt those characteristics.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
Yeah.
No and if anything, it alsogives us an opportunity to
(29:13):
learn.
And that's how I look at it.
I'm not naive to the fact thatI'm a 50-year-old white male
coaching college volleyball.
So I love to learn what is itlike being an athlete of color
on my campus?
What can I do as a coach to makeyou feel more comfortable?
(29:36):
And that's hard too but that'spart of the recruiting, because
I'm recruiting players that Imight not be familiar with their
socioeconomic or theirbackground.
That's right.
So I.
Maybe that's why they're on theteam.
They are had nothing to do withtheir ability.
They're on the twos team becauseit's a single parent family and
(29:58):
it's tough to make ends meet.
And they're a heck of a playerand they're gonna be awesome,
but they're getting overlooked'cause they're not on that top
team.
But it's not because of talent.
Yeah.
And the last point I know thisis rapid fire and I don't wanna
hog up a whole bunch of time,but it, for me, it all boils
down to I made a shift.
We made a shift a few years ago.
(30:19):
We really rely heavily oncertain clubs.
Like we know which clubs teachand attract the players that we
like.
That's right.
So they're always my go-to whenI'm looking for a middle player,
I gotta find a middle for nextyear.
I'm calling those same six clubsthat I always club'cause I know
they're coached.
I know they care about the kidsand typically the kids coming in
(30:40):
fit our program and all culture.
Yeah.
I no longer am doing the needlein a haystack, looking at 3000
middle recruits from all overthe country.
I'm cashing in on thoserelationships with the clubs and
the coaches that I know well,they're clubs.
They're recruiting.
They're recruiting like you are,and they're literally probably
doing, looking for similar kidsthat you're looking for.
(31:01):
You hope.
But there's also clubs out therethat they'll feed you the line
of BS'cause it looks good forthem to say, oh look, we got
five kids going on to college.
The, the six coaches or clubdirectors that are gonna give
you the straight scoop.
Dan, I don't think this kid's agood fit for you, Dan.
I don't think this kid fits yourculture, Dan.
I don't think this kid's gonnabe happy at your right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've absolutely had coaches thatsay she would be great, but I
(31:24):
don't think she's a fit for yourstyle.
I don't think she's a fit foryour culture.
Yep.
And then on the flip side Heylook, I know that this girl's
undersized for an outside or amiddle, but I'm telling you, she
will grind and make it worth it.
And nine outta 10 times, that'swhat's happens.
We get that kid that peoplepassed on because they were just
athletically looking, but I.
Trust the coach.
(31:44):
Coach, you're awesome.
I hope you know how much Irespect you.
I hope you know how much I'veenjoyed our friendship over the
last couple months and gettingto know you and just very much
appreciate and respect who youare as a person, as a coach, as
a dad, as a husband, and justthankful that we have you in
this world and keep doing whatyou're doing and, if you need
anything, you've got me and I'malways happy to help.
(32:05):
I'll send you the check in themail for that one.
Again, appreciate we, we have tohave these conversations.
We, there just has to be moreconversations like this going
on.
Thanks, coach.
Have a great day.
That's a wrap for this week'ssignificant recruiting podcast.
Thanks again to Coach Dan MiCellfor joining me today.
What a great conversation.
(32:25):
I learned so much, and I'm sothankful that Dan's willing to
have.
Those big picture conversationsthat I think every parent, every
coach, every student athleteneeds to hear.
So thanks to Coach.
If you wanna learn more abouthis work and performance
psychology and coaching, visitdan mickel.com.
You'll find great tools forathletes, coaches, and teams.
(32:46):
And if you haven't yet, checkout my brand new book, the
Softball Recruits Journal nowavailable on Amazon with two
awesome covers to choose from.
It's packed with tools to helpathletes take full control of
their recruiting journey.
You can find the journal freeresources and schedule your free
recruiting strategy session withme@coachmattrogers.com.
(33:07):
Until next time, lead withsignificance, live with purpose,
and as always, own yourrecruiting journey.
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