June 20, 2025 • 50 mins
🎙️ Significant Coaching Podcast – Featuring Paul Dill
This week’s episode begins with a heartfelt tribute to legendary high school basketball coach Jerry Petitgoue, who passed away this week. Coach Petitgoue was more than a Hall of Famer—to Matt, he was a mentor, a friend, and someone who shaped the way he coached, led, and lived. Matt didn't get the pleasure of playing for Coach, but he'll always be Matt's coach.
After the tribute, Matt is joined by Paul Dill, Head Volleyball Coach at MIT and one of the most consistently successful coaches in NCAA Division III history. With over 1,000 career wins coaching both men and women and a .772 winning percentage, Coach Dill has built a powerhouse program while working with one of the smallest recruiting pools in the country.
We dive into:
✅ How he recruits top-tier student-athletes who meet MIT’s elite academic standards
✅ Why he uses the Socratic method to develop smarter, more self-aware athletes
✅ What it takes to sustain excellence over nearly three decades
✅ Lessons every coach can apply about leadership, teaching, and culture-building
If you're a coach, athlete, or parent trying to understand what real coaching looks like, this episode is packed with insight and inspiration.
📘 Now available on Amazon: https://amzn.to/409yeWG
The Softball Recruit’s Journal – Your step-by-step guide to owning the recruiting journey with tools for communication, visits, decision-making, and more.
🌐 Learn more, listen to past episodes, and schedule a free recruiting or coaching session at: coachmattrogers.com
Learn more and connect with Matt Rogers here: https://linktr.ee/coachmattrogers
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
when we're practicing, I'll stopa lot to talk about or to ask,
(00:03):
what are you seeing here?
What should you be doing here?
Yeah.
And so then for me it's allabout.
We're trying to create stabilityin our side of the net and
create chaos on their side ofthe net.
Welcome back to SignificantCoaching.
(00:25):
I'm your host, Matt Rogers.
Before we dive into today'sepisode, I want to take a moment
to honor someone incrediblyspecial, not just in the world
of high school basketball, butin my life.
This past week, we lost acoaching legend Hall of Fame
basketball coach and the 2020National High School Basketball
Coach of the Year coach JerryPettigo of Cuba City High School
(00:48):
in Wisconsin.
For decades, he was theheartbeat of Wisconsin
basketball and the longtimeexecutive director of the
Wisconsin Basketball CoachesAssociation.
But to me, he was much more thana Hall of Fame coach.
He was my mentor, he was myfriend, and truthfully, he was
my coach, even though I neverplayed a single minute for him.
(01:12):
Whether I needed a reference toland a job or needed advice
connecting with a player or justwanted to talk X's Os.
Coach Pegu always picked up thephone for over 35 years.
He guided me, believed in me,and helped me find the courage
to be the coach I wanted to be.
When I asked him to write theforward to my book, significant
(01:34):
recruiting, he didn't hesitate.
He was proud of me and I waseven.
Prouder to call him a friend.
It's been a tough week knowing Iwon't be able to call him again,
but I'm forever grateful that hetook this young coach under his
wing so many years ago.
My thoughts and prayers are withhis wife Joan, their three
children and the countless youngmen and women he taught,
(01:58):
coached, and inspired for over60 years.
Thank you Coach Petti youe foreverything.
If I'm any good at this coachingthing, a big part of it is
because of the role model youwere to me Now, from one legend
to another, today's guest is agiant in the volleyball world.
MIT head coach Paul Dale.
(02:18):
I.
Coach Dill is entering his 30thseason with MIT's women's
volleyball program, and whathe's accomplished is nothing
short of remarkable when yourtalent pool is essentially
limited to athletes with 4.0GPAs and 1450 SAT scores.
Building a powerhouse programsounds nearly impossible.
(02:41):
But Paul Dill has done just thatwith over 1000 career wins,
coach Dill has proven thatexcellence doesn't have to come
at the cost of academicintegrity.
He's a master technician.
A student of leadership and oneof the best I've seen at using
the Socratic method to developnot just great volleyball
(03:03):
players, but great thinkers andteammates.
We'll talk about his uniquejourney, the MIT mindset, and
how he's sustained suchconsistent excellence for over
three decades.
All right, let's get into it.
Here's my conversation withCoach Paul Dill.
(03:24):
Coach Dill, thank you so muchfor being on.
It's a pleasure to talk to youtoday.
Yeah, my pleasure.
My pleasure.
Been looking forward to it.
I wanna talk about MIT right outof the gates because, I think we
can go anywhere in the world.
And I don't think it matterswhat country we'd be in.
And you could ask somebody whatare the universities in the
(03:44):
world that they think are thebest?
And I think it would be maybe ahandful of schools, maybe
Harvard, Yale, Cambridge,Oxford, maybe Stanford.
Definitely MIT.
What does that mean to you towork at a university that has
such a global reputation?
I'm definitely humbled by it andI feel extremely fortunate to be
(04:05):
here in this environment.
And everything kind of done atMIT is done on this other level
of excellence and and trying todo things the right way.
And so getting to be in thatenvironment every day is just a
gift.
And I try to absorb as much ofit as I can.
And and I enjoy, the type ofstudent athletes that end up
coming here then are just,really down to earth kids who
(04:26):
happen to be really bright andwant to be the best at whatever
it is that they do.
And they want to be surroundedby people just like them.
So it makes for this fantasticenvironment to be in.
It's gonna take everything in mypower in this first segment, not
to talk recruiting with you.
'cause that's really what I wantto, I wanna spend a lot of time
with it.
'cause I know how unique,difficult of a job you have.
(04:48):
Now we can blend a little bit.
We're definitely gonna talkabout recruiting in this first
one.
I think it's inescapable to not,but.
You have spent two decades atMIT, which is impressive in
itself.
Three.
Three.
Yeah.
You're at three now, aren't you?
Yeah.
Is this is the third decadeyou're moving into?
Yeah.
I forgot about that.
When you look back what's beensome of the most rewarding parts
(05:08):
of building and sustaining aprogram at one of the world's
most academically rigorous interinstitutions?
I really enjoy the best partsare the growth that I see in
these young people when theycome in as first years.
And they are so kind of awed bythe place.
(05:28):
And some of them go throughimposter syndrome and some of
them can't.
Did I, did they make a mistake?
Do I belong here?
All those types of things andsee them grow into these very,
well-spoken, leaders youngpeople that are gonna go and
light the world on fire in apositive way.
And getting to be a part of thatprocess through the sport of
volleyball is what I really,really enjoy.
(05:50):
And seeing that.
That difference from when theyshow up to when they leave and
that growth and who they becomeis amazing to me.
It's you, it doesn't matterwhere you've coached.
I've coached at all the levels,right.
I've coached all over thecountry, and I think there's
always that imposter syndrome.
Maybe more so for girls thanboys.
(06:10):
Yeah.
I've coached both, so it's alittle I know you have.
I've seen it in both.
Yeah, for sure.
I'm, I think it's one of thosethings, it's just a part of
growing up that you doubtyourself, you take those steps
to go to MIT and you and theyrealize, wow, this is, this
challenge is real, bothacademically and being a student
athlete on top of it.
Right.
(06:31):
What.
What's the biggest role youplay?
Is it your upperclassmen?
Is it your assistants?
Yeah.
Is it the professors?
How does that all work to helpthose kids make that transition
to do Well, I think, theathletes here do kind of better
than everybody else academicallyon average, and I think that's
because they're around thatsupport group all the time.
Because you do come into MIT asa student, and you've been told
(06:53):
for the last 12 years howincredibly smart you are.
And how great you are and andthat, you're the top 1% of
whatever academically.
And then you come here and theybeat you down a little bit
academically, and you've nevergotten anything less than an a
and all of a sudden you get a 25on your first exam.
And how do you deal with that?
(07:13):
Right?
How do maybe the average was 26,but, you're, so having this.
Team to be a part of whereeverybody here wants to succeed,
athletically and academicallyand socially and all those great
things.
And so they're here to help themand say, Hey, yeah, that same
thing happened to me.
You're gonna be fine.
And then they can move forwardthrough that and have this great
support group around them.
(07:34):
And that's, this athleticcommunity here is great at
lifting, lifting each other up.
I've been talking to collegepresidents about the idea of
teaching kids how to learn howto be learners.
Are there things that MITspecifically is doing for those
incoming freshmen who are beenstraight A students their whole
(07:56):
life?
Like you said, valedictorians,they could have gone anywhere
they wanted.
Is there a process or aprocedure or a guide that
they're doing to say, Hey,learning here is a little bit
different.
Here's how we do that.
Do the, is there a process withthat?
I think that they have so manysupport systems in place for,
(08:16):
the students here to help themsucceed.
They want them to, they wantthem to graduate.
It's not a, it's not a cutthroatplace at all.
It's extremely collaborative.
And again everybody comes hereand they all say the same thing.
Oh, I found my people.
And these, and, everybody's hereis so switched on academically
and they wanna share everythingthey have with you and absorb
(08:36):
everything you have to offer.
So there's this greatcollaborative environment here.
That and then all of thesesupport systems in place,
through MIT to help everybodyget through it.
And and the nice pieces too youcome in as a first year and your
first semester is actually pastno record.
So you're, you can get your feetwet and go through that
transition without having todeal with, grades.
(09:00):
And so that's.
That's a huge benefit.
That's Yeah.
For here, for sure.
For sure.
It is.
And then if you're an athlete, afall athlete, especially now all
of a sudden you're thrown intothe deep end right away.
But you but again, you're, it ispast no record.
You get used to being in seasonand what that's before, before
you have to deal with grades.
Which is fantastic.
I love that idea.
(09:20):
And I love that for every schoolin the country, I would imagine
your kids.
They've been disappointed thatthey got a 99% instead of a
hundred.
They got, they got a 97, myson's like this.
Yeah.
He came home the other day andhe goes, dad, my grade dropped
in math.
It dropped from 102.5 down to101.4 and yeah.
(09:44):
And and he was disappointed withit because there was no extra
credit for this last test theytook.
So even getting a hundreddropped his grade.
And I would imagine your kidsare like that when they get
there.
They're such perfectionist, Iwould imagine.
Yeah.
And they have to get that.
Does that year help them getover some of that a little bit?
Yeah, for sure.
For sure, because they have toget over that pretty quickly and
understand it's not so muchabout the grades now, it's more
(10:07):
about, the learning experienceand what they're being exposed
to and getting that degree thatwill, help them, in their career
or going on to other, graduateschools.
What does that do for you as acoach?
What's your process with that?
I'm guessing you see a lot ofthat too, that you know their
lives are about, they wanna beperfect all the time.
They want to be An example is,yeah.
(10:28):
What's your process with that?
I think we use the upper classwomen a lot in that process to
help, our team culture.
For me, the team culture iseverything.
Yeah, it's everything for as faras our success, as far as how
they grow when they're here as,as far as how they feel
supported, as how they gainconfidence, all of that.
And that's through, leadershiptraining and everything else
(10:49):
that we do with everybody inthis program so that they can
help.
The, the underclass women tosucceed and feel okay with that
transition from high school tocollege.
I'm, I wanna dive into thatleadership development.
'cause I always talk, you and Iwere just having a conversation.
It wasn't, we weren't recordingit.
I'm, we would probably talk alittle bit more about that
(11:11):
process that freshmen gothrough.
I've always said if I can get afreshman.
A kid that comes into ourprogram, if I can get them by.
Halfway through their sophomoreyear for things to start
clicking and really start to getit.
I always feel like we've donesomething right for that kid, so
(11:32):
I'm really interested in sharingsome of this, the leadership
development that you do withyour kids and see if we can get
some 16 and 17 year olds andsome parents to start building
that, some of that into theirroutines.
What is some of the things thatyou're doing with that
development?
Yeah we do some formalleadership training with our
team and we do it witheverybody.
We do it spring of theirsophomore year.
(11:53):
So again that, that.
First, first semester ofsophomore year is a little bit
of a bear because now they're ongrades in season for the first
time and now they're into theirmore core classes, towards their
major, so it gets a littleharder.
So if they can get through thatfirst semester of sophomore
year, then it's downhill alittle bit after that, but then
(12:14):
that's when we feel that's thebest time for our leadership
training and that now they'reready.
They've really, they've foundthemselves, they've been
developing as a player, they'vebeen developing their
confidence.
They've been contributing alittle bit more.
Now they can take on thatleadership responsibility as a
class.
So we do it with everybody andeverybody knows they're expected
to lead.
There is no neutral.
(12:34):
They're all expected to add tothe team culture and they take
it pretty seriously.
'cause we sit'em down and we gothrough about, five or six
meetings where we're goingthrough.
Two different books and I, I'vebeen doing this so long that I
have just anecdote anecdote,stories about great leaders and
not so great leaders that we'vehad in the past, between the
(12:55):
men's and women's programs thatI've coached here.
And so they all take it on andit, they love it.
They love it.
It's leveling up for them andthat that, and that goes to the
whole, taking ownership of theteam and the culture.
And that for me is the biggestpowerful and the most powerful
thing that can happen is when ateam takes ownership of itself
and is accountable for itself.
(13:15):
And that's really the key tobeing successful and having a
great team culture.
And so this leadership training.
Certainly facilitates that in abig way.
I love that.
What are the books you're havingthem read?
We, there's a short book calledYou Don't Need a Title to Be a
Leader.
That's a short one.
And then we do the Jeff Jansen,leadership manual, captain's
(13:36):
leadership manual book.
We just go through it and wehave a conversation.
And we're just talk andeverybody goes through it so
they know there's nobody leftout.
And they're all, then they'reall gonna lead in their way and
they learn how to lead as aclass and play off of each
other's strengths and weaknesseswithin that class.
And then it's ultimately, whatkind of legacy do they wanna
leave behind as a class, andthey know they're responsible
(13:58):
for that.
It's so great because, I alwaystalk about the power of the
group and if everybody knows theexpectations and everybody's
learning the same thing aboutwhat a leader is and what those
examples are, it's so mucheasier to lead when you're
leading as a group, when you'releading together.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
I love that.
(14:18):
And it's coach, it's so smart tostart this after that first year
and a half, because I wouldimagine through your 30 years,
that's where the comfort levelsinks in, I would imagine.
Where they, yeah.
They're starting to beauthentic.
They're starting to figure out,okay, I belong here.
I would imagine.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, yeah.
And they've had, this thingbuilds on itself because if
(14:41):
you've been doing this a longtime and have this in place.
Then they've had great leadersahead of them that included them
and that helped, supported themand helped bring them along and,
and gave them a voice.
And so that they've had thesegreat examples and they want to
do what the seniors have done.
They come in as first years andthey're like, Hey, I want to be
like her man.
She's got it all on lockdownacademically and socially, and
(15:02):
she's a great player and a greatleader on this team.
How do I do that?
And I can say they weren't likethat when they showed up, they
were just like you.
They couldn't find their way tothe gym.
They didn't know what was goingon.
But if you buy into the systemand buy into the culture, and
are rewarded by it, you start toinvest in it.
And then you wanna do the samething and become those kinds of
people and do it and do thewonderful things that they did
(15:23):
for you, for people below you.
So it's this great this rockthat just keeps rolling and
gathering more and more moss.
Yeah.
My, my brain is exploding with,like civil engineering and
structural engineering and gen,genetic engineering
methodologies because, I canjust see these kids taking that
and going, we're I'm building abridge here.
(15:43):
I'm building a bridge to this,to that from my freshman year to
my sophomore year, to mysophomore year, to my future.
So I just love all that.
Did they get that?
Do.
Oh yeah.
Do they get those analogies andthose metaphors?
Yeah.
Oh, for sure.
I'm sure they jump all over thatstuff.
Yeah, they're great.
That's awesome.
When do you know a kid isstarting to get comfortable at,
(16:04):
not only at MIT, but comfortablebeing the student athlete you
saw in them when you saw them at16, 17 years old.
I think it comes in competitionand, that's when you re, when
they start to feel comfortablein competition and not
overanalyzing every play thatthey made and def or deflecting
(16:25):
mistakes or owning too many ofthe mistakes.
And when they start to just getreally confident and comfortable
and being able to move on to thenext play.
And not worry about what justhappened, and let that be the
end all, be all of theirvalidation and who they think
they're supposed to be, andhaving this expectation of who
they think they're supposed tobe and just play right and just
(16:47):
be confident in that and notworry about the score so much.
Or worry about what does thismean if we're not beating this
team, we think we're supposed tobeat, or.
Or, all those things.
And I think it's when you startto see them be comfortable in
those moments, you start to seethat yeah they've starting to
figure it out.
I know you probably get sick ofthis, so I don't want to beat
(17:09):
the high academic to death here,and I don't want to beat the MIT
idea to death here because whatyou're doing as a coach is
phenomenal and what you'veaccomplished at M-I-T-I-I know
without a doubt, coach, I couldput you on any campus in the
country and you'd be able toreplicate it in your own way.
I do want to talk about thosekey ingredients, though.
(17:30):
To cultivating not onlylong-term development, but
cultivating that trust with yourkids in that high academic D
three environment.
'cause I was a D three headcoach for a long time, and it
really doesn't matter where yougo.
D three it's 80% academics andmaybe it's 20% athletics.
It's we really have that focus.
(17:51):
So what are some of those keyingredients to build and
cultivate that trust with thesekids?
I think it's establishingrelationships and communication
that, that to me is the key.
I have, several, meetingsthroughout the season with each
player with each class.
And so this, that communicationis critical.
(18:13):
There's been, as a youngercoach, sometimes when things
were going, okay, I might skip amid-season meeting or something
like that because we just didn'thave time, and that's when
things go awry.
With either the individual orwith the group that
communication and letting themknow that I'm here for them and
help facilitate and collaboratewith them on their journey, on
their growth journey and andletting them know that it's not
(18:35):
going to be easy.
It's going to be hard, and it'show, how do you get better at
handling hard and how do you getbetter at being uncomfortable
and understanding that's.
That's where you're gonna grow.
And that's and that's part ofthe journey and helping
everybody on their own personaljourney through it and really
communicating with'em and reallyestablishing that relationship
as coach, player, coach, mentor,whatever you have it, but also
(18:59):
as an adult relationship, notjust, oh, I'm the player, you're
the.
Or I'm, you're the player, I'mthe coach.
And just do what I tell you now,it's, this is your team, this is
your journey.
Let's collaborate and figure outhow for how you're gonna reach
your potential.
Now, I'm gonna challenge youalong the way, and I'm gonna
push you to try to push you to alevel that I think you can get
to.
(19:19):
And that might not always becomfortable for you but.
We're gonna talk about it.
It's not just gonna be, ohyou're just uncomfortable and
coach sucks because you may,he's making me uncomfortable.
This is why I'm making you feeluncomfortable and how are you
responding to that?
And let's talk about that.
And establishing thoserelationships and that's.
If you're coming at people witha sincere and a sincere trying
(19:42):
to help them, then they reallycan buy into that if they really
feel that you're sincere in, inhaving their best interest at
heart.
I think that's the key tocoaching at any level.
Yeah.
Youth, high school, collegedoesn't matter is getting them
to understand, listen, I've beendoing this a long time, I have a
lot of answers.
That doesn't mean I have all theanswers, and it doesn't mean I
(20:02):
know all the answers for you andwhat you need.
It's about, I, you've gottalearn to trust me to the point
where you gotta say, coach, Isee this differently, or I'm
struggling with this and howwe're approaching it.
Can we talk about that?
Oh, for sure.
And getting that, getting themto understand that's a part of
this process.
It's a part of this ownership issometimes we may not agree or
(20:24):
maybe I've gotta learn somethingfrom you.
Oh yeah.
And that's critical.
And I tell them first day, thefirst years, especially like I,
I'm not sitting up in my officeand twirling my mustache and
trying to make your lifemiserable.
If you have an issue with whatI'm doing or what I'm saying,
you talk, talk to me about it.
I'm open to you, pushing back onwhat I'm saying or what I'm
doing and how we're, and howwe're doing things as a team.
(20:46):
I want your input.
This is your experience.
And you need to advocate foryourself within that.
But if you don't talk to me Iwon't know what's wrong.
So I might be making a mistakeday in and day out, and you're
mad about it, but I don't evenknow what it is, so let's talk
about it.
So they get ample opportunity todo that, and I put that
ownership on them to, if they'renot happy with something, what
(21:07):
have they done about it?
Have you talked to a, an upperclass woman about it?
Have you talked to a captain orassistant coach or me?
You can't just sit and in yourown, your own doldrums.
You not, you need to talk aboutit.
Yeah.
I would imagine the psychologyof coaching is a little bit
different for you than it mightbe at Boston College or at.
(21:32):
At a, at, a junior collegesomewhere you've got kids that
maybe.
Don't know how to ask for help.
'cause maybe they haven't had todo it before.
Or they've just got it in theirmind that they're not supposed
to ask for help.
Do you have to overcome that oris there a way to overcome that?
Or just understand?
Oh, I think it's justestablishing that relationship
and that trust and they feelthat they can trust you.
(21:54):
And I tell them all the time,look, I'm not gonna try to talk
you out of something, a decisionthat you're making.
I'm gonna just give you maybesome different ways to think
about it or different ways tocome at it or give you a
resource to talk to somebodyelse about it that I know will
give you some insight.
And I tell them, try not to makedecisions in a vacuum.
Like talk, talk to people aboutit and before you make a
decision, because, there's somuch experience here within the
(22:17):
team and within the coachingstaff and within m MIT in
general that can help you withthat.
Yeah.
Or give you just differentthings to think about.
I.
Where does failure live in yourprogram?
It lives daily.
Daily.
And I let'em know that I, it'sand I tell them, you're gonna
fail.
You're gonna fail here.
(22:38):
And it's how do you handle that?
And use that as a growthexperience.
And they're really good aboutlifting each other up.
I tell the players this all thetime, that.
Look, I'm not, if you dig a ballthat was hit directly at you,
I'm not going to just sing yourpraises.
'cause that's what you'resupposed to do.
I, your teammates can do that.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna be pushingyou to another level.
And the teammates support eachother.
(22:59):
They know I'm gonna challengethem.
Yeah.
When they do something great,I'm gonna make sure that we
celebrate that.
But it's not it's, it's notgonna be just a daily.
You're wonderful, right?
Yeah.
It's just, that's not gonna,that's not gonna help them out
in the real world.
They do fail.
A lot and I want them to fail inpractice, and they want, I want
(23:20):
them to find that ledge, so tospeak, in practice of what
they're capable of.
And so that, in, in match play,they know not to try to go there
if they're under pressure,right?
That's not a shot you're capableof hitting and you've, we've
known this because you've triedit in practice where it was
free, where you're free to makethose mistakes and free to find
that ledge and f and find outwhat you're capable of, and then
(23:40):
keep pushing the limit of thatin practice.
So that, you can play with somediscipline when we're competing.
Yeah.
That for me, discipline is a bigthing when we're competing.
I love it.
Yeah.
I'm with you there.
And you're a top 10 15 in thecountry program year in and year
out.
I don't know any coach wherediscipline is in a huge part of
(24:03):
being able to get there.
That routine, that this is howwe're going to do it.
We're gonna learn how to do thisthe right way, and once we do it
the right way, then it's gonnabecome who we are.
And having that discipline toget there is hard.
I'm gonna ask you a bridgequestion here, coach.
Okay.
Because you, we talked aboutthis a little bit before we, we
record it, and I just think it'sfascinating.
(24:24):
I worked, I was the head coachat University of Laverne for a
number of years, so I got reallyclose with the staff and the
coaches at Caltech there in thestate league.
Yep.
Yep.
So I, I really understand fromthat, those relationships and
the long conversations we have,what you're going through as a
coach, and I know there's a lotof similarities between your two
universities.
(24:44):
Give the audience.
A short list of some of theinternships your kids are in
right now and some of thethings, some of the places
they're working and learning howto work.
And I think, all your higheracademic institutions, and
there's so many great programsout there in division three and
so many great coaches.
It's it's so collegiate outthere and yeah, and we're all in
(25:05):
awe of what our student athletesare doing on a daily basis.
And then what they're doing,while they're at the school and
so they're just in these,internships all over the
country, all over the world.
Over the summers and doing I hada player that, was from kind of
rural Michigan.
This was a few, this was yearsago and didn't really get to
travel outside of her kind ofMidwest area very much at all.
(25:27):
Even, played for a smaller club,but came to MIT was one, was
became a really great player forus.
And, her first summer she did,she was into programming and so
she did she did her firstinternship with Google in San
Francisco, and then I think thenext summer she did one with
Spotify in New York City.
Then she did one for Google in,in Austria, and then so she was.
(25:49):
She already had two job offers,but be before her senior year
even started.
And so she was choosing betweenAustria or Northern California.
And she was, in a conundrumabout it.
I said this is a tough problemto have.
And this is someone that neverreally traveled.
And then the world basicallythrough MIT and, those kinds of
opportunities, for us are secondto none as far as what
(26:11):
opportunities afforded to themwhen they're here, as well as,
the people that they'resurrounded by.
It's just this amazingexperience for them.
And I joke with them all thetime.
They tell me what they're gonnado over the summer and I say,
oh, geez, it's too bad.
MIT didn't really give you anyopportunity to do anything fun
or cool while you're here.
Meanwhile I'm stuck here allsummer, fighting the battle of,
Falmouth Road in West Newtonevery day.
(26:31):
And, they're off, off, justhaving these wonderful, worldly
experiences.
And then they go off and dothese amazing things in life.
And we have a former, studentathlete who's an astronaut and
she may end up being the firstwoman on the moon.
That's, to me is that'sincredible.
That's awesome.
So they, volleyball's just,helped prepare them for that, I
hope.
And yeah, and add some things totheir growth experience.
(26:53):
But they go on, do amazingthings and there's so many
schools that send those types ofpeople out into the world to
help make it a better place.
Yeah.
That's why I hope for the futureactually you and me both.
Yes, you and me both.
I remember talking to SandraMarba before a game.
We were, I was a basketballcoach and she was the head coach
at Caltech, and I'm looking outat pre-game and her and I are
(27:16):
having a conversation.
Our kids are warming up and Igo, Sandy, where are your best
two players?
She goes, she drops her head,she looks at me, she goes, one's
interviewing at Microsoft, theother one's interviewing at
nasa.
Yeah.
She's like, how do we tell themthat D three college basketball
(27:36):
game is more important thangoing to interview at Microsoft
and nasa?
So I know you're dealing withsimilar things.
So I wanted to, I wanted you totalk a little bit from your
experience about that, because Iwant to talk about helping these
kids find their balance.
That life balance between, beinga kid, they're still kids, being
a great student, thinking abouttheir future, thinking about
(27:57):
their career, thinking aboutwinning a national championship.
Yeah.
How do we help them find thatlife balance where they learn
how to be the best versions ofthemselves and not get caught up
in what they're supposed to bedoing at 50.
Yeah, that's hard.
They es especially, here it'sjust a go go.
Next thing, the next thing.
(28:17):
And I, I'm always trying totake, tell them to take time to
reflect, take time to thinkahead, take time to just be in
the moment.
Being in the moment for me isreally big here.
And trying to get them to dothat and enjoy those moments.
'cause it's just nonstop here.
Whether it's their athletics,whether it's.
Their, their academics, whetherit's the other groups, they're a
(28:38):
part of their researchopportunities.
All those things are going allat the same time, so they don't,
let's enjoy this win.
Let's enjoy what we justexperienced here versus, because
now they're on I have my problemsets that are due, and my
research opportunity thing istomorrow and I have this
interview for my, in my summerinternship the next day, and I
have this exam.
They're just onto the next thingover and over and over again.
(28:59):
And so they don't.
Sometimes get the chance toenjoy what they're a part of.
And that's why I think,athletics, especially at a high
academic institution is soimportant because it does give
them that balance, right?
It does give them that being apart of something bigger than
themselves and going to play thesport they love for two hours
every day.
(29:19):
And they can't be doing thoseother things or be thinking
about those other things becausethey're in this moment of
enjoying this great sport withthese great people that they
love and having these loftygoals of playing for conference
championships and nationalchampionships, right?
Yeah.
So that, that the sport itselfdoes provide that balance in a
big way.
I love it.
Yeah.
(29:39):
It's such I get I'm frustratedright now because, it's at the
high school level.
I have a son that's in middleschool and my daughter's in high
school, and we've really goneaway from how you and I grew up,
and I'm, I imagine you had thesame background where we went to
PE every day.
We had a physical educationclass every day.
We were running, sweating,playing a game, playing a sport,
(30:00):
competing, learning, learninghow to be healthy.
And that's gone away, there's nomandatory PE anymore in high
school.
My daughter plays volleyball andgolf, so she takes, that's her
class, that's her PE supposedly.
Yeah.
My son only has PE like onceevery two or three weeks.
So it's hard for me to acceptthat's the right thing to do.
(30:20):
That's healthy for these kids.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, I just finished coaching ata high school.
I did some high school coachinglast couple years, and the high
school I was coaching at had wonthe, I think they were the
leaders in SAT scores for fourstraight years.
These are kids that studied forfour hours a night.
The kind of kids that you're Iwould imagine are recruiting.
(30:43):
I'm so mad at myself becausethe, it was so hard just to get
gym time.
It was just so hard to get, anhour and a half, two hour
practice every night that I gotaway from some of the things I
did as a college coach, where,I'd see our guys retired or our
gals retired, and I'd go, allright.
Put the basketballs away.
We're gonna get out the whiffleball sticks, and we're gonna
play Whiffle Ball day, or we'regonna get everybody on a bus and
(31:04):
we're gonna go to watch a movietoday.
Just to get them to breathe andremember that we're a family and
I'm mad at myself.
I didn't do more of that.
I.
Are you finding that you have todo some of those things?
You have to build some of those?
Maybe if it's, maybe it's on atrip where you're going
somewhere for a game or atournament.
Sure.
And you Sure.
And you say, Hey, we're notgonna think about volleyball
(31:24):
here for a half, half a day.
We're gonna go to the zoo.
We're gonna go to the, to amuseum and have fun.
Yeah.
I think we try to do that.
I think within practice I think.
I'm not, I have some coachingcolleagues that do their fun
games and things like that.
It's just not me.
I've tried to do a little bit ofthat.
It's, yeah, I do some of thatcertainly preseason for team
bonding, but I think we buildinto our, some of our
(31:47):
competitive drills and gamesthat we do we build a fun
element into that sometimes.
So I think we try to get ourbalance that way and.
We get such a short time withthem.
Practice wise, we, mi t's nicebecause they do set aside a five
to seven window for activities,so there are no classes or
exams, so they know that's,there's no conflicts.
(32:08):
But you've got people cominglate from lab that, that went
until five and you've got peoplethat have an exam at seven 30,
so they've gotta leave, a littlebit before seven so they can get
something to eat.
So we do have a short amount oftime and we're gonna jam it
with.
Volleyball and, fun and there,our team culture's a fun culture
in practice too.
We'll compete and get after it,but we also have a lot of fun.
(32:28):
And depending on the day, whendo we want to be locked in and
focused and when do we want tobe a little bit more loose,
depending on the drill anddepending on the time of year.
Or depending on what the teamneeds, that's the other piece.
We try to make some of thedrills fun and make the
competing fun and they're justso switched on about wanting to
get better.
Yeah.
So they all coach each other andpush each other and so that's
(32:48):
fun for them, I think.
Yeah.
That's the feedback I get.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I the longer I coached, the moreI was building those things in,
I was, we're gonna do somethingcompetitive.
Every single day.
I want there to be thatcompetitive fun that, all right,
hey we're not doing a drill.
We're not doing a hitting drill,we're not doing a passing drill.
We're, there's thatcompetitiveness that I wanna win
(33:09):
this today.
And so I love that stuff.
From just a pure volleyballperspective.
Let's get into that a littlebit.
Sure.
And I feel like I'm wasting mytime with you if I'm not talking
about your volleyball brain.
What are some of.
That you guys do that you feellike separates you from the pack
in terms of your development?
(33:30):
And maybe it's the same things,but it's the consistency or the
routine or how you do it yourway.
Are there things that you feellike, okay, this is how we're
gonna do this to get ourselvesready to win a conference
championship again this year?
I think it's, like I said, I'm alot about discipline and that
kind of goes into style of playfor me.
For me I really want them to bethinking about, what is gonna
(33:54):
set them up for successsituationally and what do we do?
What's my decision makingprocess in every different
situation that I may see as aplayer based on what's
happening?
Within this point.
And so really, putting togetherdrills that are gonna allow for
that, but also within the drill,whatever it is, I'm gonna stop
and say what, did you get to agood point of preparation there
(34:17):
in transition?
What was your decision makingprocess defensively?
What did you see?
What are you reading here?
What you know?
Are you actually working hard intransition?
Are, to get to a good point ofpreparation?
Are you making good decisionswhen we're out of system?
Those types of things.
For me it's a lot about style ofplay.
So I stop, when we'repracticing, I'll stop a lot to
(34:38):
talk about or to ask, what areyou seeing here?
What should you be doing here?
Yeah.
And so then for me it's allabout.
We're trying to create stabilityin our side of the net and
create chaos on their side ofthe net.
And so if you're not stable as aplayer, and that means the
timing's not good you're on theway down the set was a bad
location, then your job is tokeep the ball in play and let us
(35:00):
fight, another day, so to speak.
And if you're stable andeverything's good, I want you to
be super aggressive and getafter it and make aggressive
errors, right?
But we don't want to give pointsaway.
It's too, the.
The margin for error against areally good team is not much.
Yeah.
It's two or three points.
If you're limiting your errors,just unforced errors to, six or
seven, that's really hard for ateam to score 19 points.
(35:25):
You, getting a bad set doesn'tgive you carte blanche to hit
the ball 20 feet out.
That wasn't there.
Yeah.
And you have to recognize andfix.
That's right.
So those are some of the things,we're very disciplined in how we
do things in practice.
And I, they know what theyshould be doing or what they
shouldn't be doing in alldifferent scenarios.
And so it's, it is situational.
(35:46):
And again, in practice we'regonna talk about finding that
ledge.
Yeah.
Okay.
You went after it and tried tomake this crazy shot.
In this particular situation,and that's fine in practice.
'cause now you know, yeah, youcan make that shot or no, you
cannot make that shot.
So at, 14, 14 in the fifth setyou, that's not something you
want to try to pull out justbecause you didn't score on the
(36:08):
last three swings.
So figuring out what they'recapable of in practice, I think
is key.
And having that discipline andfor me, having them coach each
other and hold each otheraccountable.
And it has to cross class lines.
Everybody has to be doing it forus to get better.
And so they're gonna push eachother and they're gonna
encourage each other and they'regonna expect a lot out of each
other.
(36:28):
And they're gonna vocalize that.
And hold each other to this,whatever this, our standard is.
And our standard is based on,what the drill is or how we
carry ourselves or how wepractice on a day-to-day basis.
The standard is the standard andthey all know what it is.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's great.
And I want I want any coachesthat are listening to this, we
have a lot of high school youthcoaches and other college
(36:50):
coaches that listen to this.
What I hear consistently fromgreat coaches like you is the
difference between Good to Greatis in, in terms of being on the
court and teaching.
The difference is telling versusasking, and I keep hearing that
from you, that Socratic method.
Yeah.
I'm not just gonna stop practiceand tell you what you're doing
(37:12):
wrong.
I'm gonna ask you.
Was that the right approach?
Or why did you make thatdecision?
Am I in the right world there?
Oh, for sure.
Oh, it's a lot ofself-reflection and figuring out
what you know, what you weredoing, why you were doing it,
what decision were you makingthere?
Because, I'll see them make thisegregious error and be like, and
I, in my head, I'm thinking,what the heck was she thinking?
(37:33):
And then I'll ask her, and thenshe explains it and I'm like,
okay.
Yeah, that makes sense.
I see what you're trying to dothere.
That's fine.
That's a good error to make nowand understand what, what
adjustment to make to alleviatethat or just don't do that
again.
Depending, so that, that's wherethe, that's where the learning
happens.
That's where the growth happens.
And I think it's.
(37:53):
For me, it's a mix of techniqueand having the, the skill drills
and working that technique.
So they have this the techniqueto be able to execute the skill
that they need to execute whenthey need to execute it.
And then playing the game sothey're seeing all the different
situations and competing andlearning how to compete.
'cause if, I tell'em all thetime, if you're thinking while
you're playing like.
While you're competing, you'renot competing anymore.
(38:16):
That's right.
Like you can't be thinking aboutyour footwork and you know
you've got, you, there's no wayYou can't, even if you can't
beat your own footwork, there'sno way you can beat the other
team.
You gotta trust your game oncethe whistle blows.
That's the other thing for us.
We talk a lot about trusting ourgame.
Like you're not all of a suddengonna grow six inches and jump
six inches higher.
When you put the uniform on andthe whistle blows, like
whatever, wherever you are.
(38:37):
As a player or wherever we areas a team.
When the whistle blows and westart to play, that's who we are
and we gotta trust that.
And that's good enough.
We don't need to be somethingwe're not, or try to be
something we're not.
All of a sudden we need to trustour game.
So I say Hey, you didn't forgethow to brush your teeth when you
woke up this morning, so youdidn't forget how to serve.
It's gonna be okay.
(38:58):
Yeah.
Coach.
I love the way you're answeringthe questions'cause you're very
much speaking to a largeaudience and I know, you've
listened to this the podcast acouple times is I'm, is we have
people that, that are parents,that have kids that play
baseball and we have parentsthat have kids that run track
and volleyball.
I'm gonna put you, I'm gonna putthe families in your camp for a
(39:18):
second.
I want them to see Coach Dill,the camp director, the camp
coach, the master teacher alittle bit.
Let's talk about hitting.
Okay.
Let's say I've got a daughterwho's a PIN hitter and she
struggles when that set isn'thigh enough or the set is short,
or the set is long, right.
(39:40):
Teach that pin hitter, how todeal with that before it's on
top of them.
What are we talking aboutfootwork.
When that set's about to hit thesetter, the ball's about to hit
that setter's hands.
What do I want my pin hitter tobe thinking about in terms of
footwork?
I think, for me, first of all,it's about getting to a good
(40:00):
point of preparation, right?
Are you, is your spacing good?
Did you get to a good place thatyou have a full runway to make
your full approach?
And that's not taught wellenough at the lower levels.
Like it's just, oh, I'm gonnabackpedal and I'm gonna get to
about the 10 foot line.
And now the set, set, the sixfoot line, because the setter
set it off.
So I have actually no realapproach now.
(40:21):
So I'm not gonna be dynamic, I'mnot gonna be jumping as high,
I'm not gonna be hitting ashard.
So getting further off, to agood point of preparation off
the net and off the court orwherever it is that you're
supposed to be, that you have a,you're for your full athletic
runway, whatever that is for youas a, as a player.
Like for me, like middle hittersin transition, they have this
invisible force field at the 10foot line.
(40:41):
And it doesn't matter whether itwas a free ball or whatever,
they just stopped there.
And wait.
And it's like you're huge.
You can make a big run, a bigapproach, and be super dynamic.
Get as far off as you can, giventhe time that you have to do it.
Yeah.
There's certain times intransition where everything
happens very quickly and youdon't have time to get off, but
when you got, you've gotta workhard to get as far off as
possible.
(41:01):
And then that footwork is aboutwaiting on that first step a
little bit and then reallyexploding into your approach.
And that, that's big for me.
And then, how do you get how doyou avoid making these errors?
It's practicing the bad set.
Here's, you're, I want, I'mgonna, I'm gonna place these
balls I'm gonna feed you theseballs.
And they're all gonna be alittle further outside that you
(41:23):
would like them right.
Now, how do you deal with thattechnically?
What's the technique used to fixthat?
You are, I'm gonna, I'm gonnahave you do your approach and be
early, so you're on the waydown.
What do you do now?
So that you don't hit it intothe net, those types of things
are, this ball's gonna be wayinside, let's practice.
What do you do with that?
So it's the same thing with kindof service receive we get
(41:45):
players and all they just getrandom reps and that's great for
learning to read serves anddoing that.
But they don't know thetechnique to pass a ball that's
deep over their left shoulder.
They just, they've neveractually learned it, right?
So you're gonna, we have topractice all those things in
order so that they have thetechnique so that when it is
deep over their left shoulderand they got beat, or they
thought it was gonna besomewhere else, and now they've
(42:06):
gotta play it deep over theirleft shoulder, they're capable
of doing it.
So it's practicing the badthings that can happen and
figuring out what is thetechnique to deal with these
different situations.
'cause everybody can hit theperfect ball if you've been
playing long enough.
That's great.
That's great.
But that's not the game.
It is when you're in system andyou have a great setter.
That's right.
Sure.
And that's what everybody likesand that's hitting lines, but
(42:29):
that's not the flow of play.
That's right.
What is that technique on a deepball for a left side hitter that
it's, everybody coaches a littlebit differently.
I think.
You know what I find works forus is we talk a lot about.
Drop stepping and picking a sideand never, we don't really pass
center line unless it's a reallysuper easy ball.
We want'em to choose a sidereally quickly, drop step, get
(42:50):
back and have that that angleplatform waiting for the ball
and then being able to push thatangle towards the target.
Yeah.
And instead of swinging our armsback.
So it's recognizing and pickingso we'll practice where our
players are, in service, likeright behind the 10 foot line.
And the serves are going to beintentionally behind them.
(43:10):
And so they've gotta learn toReno, drop step, get back and
get that angle out above theirshoulder and figure out how does
that work, right From different,from the ball coming from
different angles from them andthe different positions they
could be in servicey wise, andgetting reps at that.
I think that's critical.
I love it.
I love it and it's such a toughthing.
My daughter's a back row playerand just getting her to
(43:32):
understand that drop step andgetting your frame there, you're
often gonna make a better passor the ball's not gonna be right
at you.
If you can get your body turnedto get that frame and get your
arms extended you're gonna havemore ability to move that ball
where you want it.
Yeah.
But it takes intentional repswith everything.
It does, yeah.
Coach you up for a little bit ofrapid fire.
Whatever you want.
(43:53):
Okay.
Let's have some fun with youhere.
Okay.
What's one word your playerswould use to describe your
coaching style?
Let's see.
One word.
I think maybe challenging.
I think challenging would be bigfor them.
They know I'm gonna challenge'emand I'm gonna come at'em.
And that I'm not gonna take iteasy on'em.
And again, it's different foreverybody.
(44:13):
I'm gonna try to figure out whatworks best for everybody and
not, and find out how far I canpush somebody and how they like
to be pushed.
And that takes me getting toknow them and them getting to
know me and having thatrelationship.
For sure.
Love it.
What's the most memorable win ofyour career?
Because you've had a lot ofthem.
I.
I think, Maybe, winning thatfirst that first conference
(44:40):
championship having our lobero,a stair loro to, for the
championship point.
I think that was a big one.
Making the Elite eight andwinning that regional
championships.
Those are really big moments.
I think winning a conferencechampionship at Springfield af
reverse sweeping them in thefinal after they reverse swept
us earlier in the season.
I think that's a, that's anamazing moment as far as being a
(45:02):
part of that match was just sofun.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That first conferencechampionship, that, that's the
first one that always comes tomy head too,'cause.
You, that's when you go, I didit.
We got this team to the pointwhere we were the best in our
league.
And that's so huge.
Love that.
Favorite volleyball player orcoach for you to watch?
(45:23):
Oh, wow.
Oh man.
That's a tough one.
That's a tough one.
So many.
I don't know if I have, I don'tknow if I have a favorite.
I don't know.
Is there somebody you admire?
Is there somebody that youappreciate what they've done and
I have so much respect andadmire so many of the coaches
(45:43):
that I get to coach against andI tell people this all the time
for scheduling for me, yeah.
I gotta worry about the NPI nowand all of that and schedule
correctly, but at the same timeI like to schedule people that I
like.
Yeah.
To see so I was the same.
I, I have my, my, obviouslywe've got great coaches in our
conference, and then a lot ofthe NECA coaches at Tufts and
Con College and Middlebury andplaces like that.
(46:06):
I love to play those people andYeah.
NYU and, just other coaches thatI enjoy being around and enjoy
that comradery as coaches.
That's one of my favorite partsof the job, so that's I admire I
like watching them coach aswell, and so I, I enjoy that and
seeing how they do it and seeingthem get it, passionate about
(46:26):
things and just enjoying that,that comradery is really big.
Do you have a pregame,superstition or a routine?
Is there something you do beforeevery game?
I do, but I don't, I'm not gonnashare that.
I think it's just, it's a verypersonal, just little thing that
I like to do.
Sure.
But I, I we have a little thingthat we do as a team in the team
room before a match.
(46:47):
There's a whiteboard there, andwhen I walk, the team's already
in there, and then I walk inwith the assistant coaches to
give in the, the scouting reportor go over it again and and give
them some motivation, I guesssome motivational words, but.
But the first thing we do isthey always put up on the
whiteboard, a hangman that Ihave to figure out.
And so that I love it.
That's so good.
Yeah.
(47:07):
And and usually by threequarters of the way through the
season my, my bandwidth is low.
And so I can't think very wellanymore.
And so they start to stump me alittle bit more, but they enjoy
it.
I enjoy it.
And being a liberal arts guythat I am I love it when I can
get it.
On them.
And so it's good.
Very cool.
Yeah.
One quality you value most in ateam Captain.
(47:31):
Selflessness, I think.
And communication.
Those are the two big ones.
Love that.
Yeah.
That's so important.
So important for leadership.
Last one.
Best thing about coaching atMIT.
The people, the department isamazing.
The student athletes, the kindof people that come here are.
Just unbelievable to work with.
(47:53):
And I don't have to worry aboutdiscipline or drama or, they're,
they buy in, they wanna be greatat whatever it is that they do.
And especially like a highacademic place, if they're gonna
put their time into some,there's so many other things
pulling at their time, right?
And so if they're gonna puttheir time into this, it has to
be great.
It has to be fun.
It has to be challenging.
They have to have some chance atsuccess individually and as a
(48:15):
team.
And so they're gonna, they're,they wanna make it a great
experience, so I put it on them.
Otherwise they won't do it.
It's not worth their time.
There's too many other thingsgoing on so that's what I love
about it.
Thank you coach.
This has been so much fun.
I'm excited to talk somerecruiting with you.
So for those of you that haveenjoyed this, come back on
Monday, coach and I are gonnahave a quick discussion on
(48:37):
recruiting and get some advicefrom on there.
So thanks coach.
Appreciate it.
My pleasure.
My pleasure.
I.
What an incredible conversationwith Coach Paul Dill from MIT.
His three decade journey at MITis a masterclass in consistency,
intentionality, and highstandards, both on and off the
court.
Whether it's his use of theSocratic method, his ability to
(48:58):
develop leaders, I or how hemaximizes one of the most
competitive academic recruitingpools in the country.
Coach Dill proves that greatcoaching is about more than
wins.
It's about lasting impact.
If you're a coach looking tobuild something special or an
athlete wondering what trueexcellence looks like, this
episode was full of insight andwisdom you won't find in a
(49:20):
textbook.
Before we wrap, don't forget tocheck out my new book, the
Softball Recruits Journal.
It's your playbook for owningthe recruiting process, staying
organized, and making confidentdecisions about your future.
You'll find it in plenty of freetools and resources
over@coachmattrogers.com.
And be sure to come back onMonday for our significant
(49:40):
recruiting episode where CoachDill and I dive deep into the
recruiting side of the collegeathletics journey.
You won't want to miss it.
Thanks for listening and asalways, keep coaching with
significance.
See you next time.
when we're practicing, I'll stopa lot to talk about or to ask,
(00:03):
what are you seeing here?
What should you be doing here?
Yeah.
And so then for me it's allabout.
We're trying to create stabilityin our side of the net and
create chaos on their side ofthe net.
Welcome back to SignificantCoaching.
(00:25):
I'm your host, Matt Rogers.
Before we dive into today'sepisode, I want to take a moment
to honor someone incrediblyspecial, not just in the world
of high school basketball, butin my life.
This past week, we lost acoaching legend Hall of Fame
basketball coach and the 2020National High School Basketball
Coach of the Year coach JerryPettigo of Cuba City High School
(00:48):
in Wisconsin.
For decades, he was theheartbeat of Wisconsin
basketball and the longtimeexecutive director of the
Wisconsin Basketball CoachesAssociation.
But to me, he was much more thana Hall of Fame coach.
He was my mentor, he was myfriend, and truthfully, he was
my coach, even though I neverplayed a single minute for him.
(01:12):
Whether I needed a reference toland a job or needed advice
connecting with a player or justwanted to talk X's Os.
Coach Pegu always picked up thephone for over 35 years.
He guided me, believed in me,and helped me find the courage
to be the coach I wanted to be.
When I asked him to write theforward to my book, significant
(01:34):
recruiting, he didn't hesitate.
He was proud of me and I waseven.
Prouder to call him a friend.
It's been a tough week knowing Iwon't be able to call him again,
but I'm forever grateful that hetook this young coach under his
wing so many years ago.
My thoughts and prayers are withhis wife Joan, their three
children and the countless youngmen and women he taught,
(01:58):
coached, and inspired for over60 years.
Thank you Coach Petti youe foreverything.
If I'm any good at this coachingthing, a big part of it is
because of the role model youwere to me Now, from one legend
to another, today's guest is agiant in the volleyball world.
MIT head coach Paul Dale.
(02:18):
I.
Coach Dill is entering his 30thseason with MIT's women's
volleyball program, and whathe's accomplished is nothing
short of remarkable when yourtalent pool is essentially
limited to athletes with 4.0GPAs and 1450 SAT scores.
Building a powerhouse programsounds nearly impossible.
(02:41):
But Paul Dill has done just thatwith over 1000 career wins,
coach Dill has proven thatexcellence doesn't have to come
at the cost of academicintegrity.
He's a master technician.
A student of leadership and oneof the best I've seen at using
the Socratic method to developnot just great volleyball
(03:03):
players, but great thinkers andteammates.
We'll talk about his uniquejourney, the MIT mindset, and
how he's sustained suchconsistent excellence for over
three decades.
All right, let's get into it.
Here's my conversation withCoach Paul Dill.
(03:24):
Coach Dill, thank you so muchfor being on.
It's a pleasure to talk to youtoday.
Yeah, my pleasure.
My pleasure.
Been looking forward to it.
I wanna talk about MIT right outof the gates because, I think we
can go anywhere in the world.
And I don't think it matterswhat country we'd be in.
And you could ask somebody whatare the universities in the
(03:44):
world that they think are thebest?
And I think it would be maybe ahandful of schools, maybe
Harvard, Yale, Cambridge,Oxford, maybe Stanford.
Definitely MIT.
What does that mean to you towork at a university that has
such a global reputation?
I'm definitely humbled by it andI feel extremely fortunate to be
(04:05):
here in this environment.
And everything kind of done atMIT is done on this other level
of excellence and and trying todo things the right way.
And so getting to be in thatenvironment every day is just a
gift.
And I try to absorb as much ofit as I can.
And and I enjoy, the type ofstudent athletes that end up
coming here then are just,really down to earth kids who
(04:26):
happen to be really bright andwant to be the best at whatever
it is that they do.
And they want to be surroundedby people just like them.
So it makes for this fantasticenvironment to be in.
It's gonna take everything in mypower in this first segment, not
to talk recruiting with you.
'cause that's really what I wantto, I wanna spend a lot of time
with it.
'cause I know how unique,difficult of a job you have.
(04:48):
Now we can blend a little bit.
We're definitely gonna talkabout recruiting in this first
one.
I think it's inescapable to not,but.
You have spent two decades atMIT, which is impressive in
itself.
Three.
Three.
Yeah.
You're at three now, aren't you?
Yeah.
Is this is the third decadeyou're moving into?
Yeah.
I forgot about that.
When you look back what's beensome of the most rewarding parts
(05:08):
of building and sustaining aprogram at one of the world's
most academically rigorous interinstitutions?
I really enjoy the best partsare the growth that I see in
these young people when theycome in as first years.
And they are so kind of awed bythe place.
(05:28):
And some of them go throughimposter syndrome and some of
them can't.
Did I, did they make a mistake?
Do I belong here?
All those types of things andsee them grow into these very,
well-spoken, leaders youngpeople that are gonna go and
light the world on fire in apositive way.
And getting to be a part of thatprocess through the sport of
volleyball is what I really,really enjoy.
(05:50):
And seeing that.
That difference from when theyshow up to when they leave and
that growth and who they becomeis amazing to me.
It's you, it doesn't matterwhere you've coached.
I've coached at all the levels,right.
I've coached all over thecountry, and I think there's
always that imposter syndrome.
Maybe more so for girls thanboys.
(06:10):
Yeah.
I've coached both, so it's alittle I know you have.
I've seen it in both.
Yeah, for sure.
I'm, I think it's one of thosethings, it's just a part of
growing up that you doubtyourself, you take those steps
to go to MIT and you and theyrealize, wow, this is, this
challenge is real, bothacademically and being a student
athlete on top of it.
Right.
(06:31):
What.
What's the biggest role youplay?
Is it your upperclassmen?
Is it your assistants?
Yeah.
Is it the professors?
How does that all work to helpthose kids make that transition
to do Well, I think, theathletes here do kind of better
than everybody else academicallyon average, and I think that's
because they're around thatsupport group all the time.
Because you do come into MIT asa student, and you've been told
(06:53):
for the last 12 years howincredibly smart you are.
And how great you are and andthat, you're the top 1% of
whatever academically.
And then you come here and theybeat you down a little bit
academically, and you've nevergotten anything less than an a
and all of a sudden you get a 25on your first exam.
And how do you deal with that?
(07:13):
Right?
How do maybe the average was 26,but, you're, so having this.
Team to be a part of whereeverybody here wants to succeed,
athletically and academicallyand socially and all those great
things.
And so they're here to help themand say, Hey, yeah, that same
thing happened to me.
You're gonna be fine.
And then they can move forwardthrough that and have this great
support group around them.
(07:34):
And that's, this athleticcommunity here is great at
lifting, lifting each other up.
I've been talking to collegepresidents about the idea of
teaching kids how to learn howto be learners.
Are there things that MITspecifically is doing for those
incoming freshmen who are beenstraight A students their whole
(07:56):
life?
Like you said, valedictorians,they could have gone anywhere
they wanted.
Is there a process or aprocedure or a guide that
they're doing to say, Hey,learning here is a little bit
different.
Here's how we do that.
Do the, is there a process withthat?
I think that they have so manysupport systems in place for,
(08:16):
the students here to help themsucceed.
They want them to, they wantthem to graduate.
It's not a, it's not a cutthroatplace at all.
It's extremely collaborative.
And again everybody comes hereand they all say the same thing.
Oh, I found my people.
And these, and, everybody's hereis so switched on academically
and they wanna share everythingthey have with you and absorb
(08:36):
everything you have to offer.
So there's this greatcollaborative environment here.
That and then all of thesesupport systems in place,
through MIT to help everybodyget through it.
And and the nice pieces too youcome in as a first year and your
first semester is actually pastno record.
So you're, you can get your feetwet and go through that
transition without having todeal with, grades.
(09:00):
And so that's.
That's a huge benefit.
That's Yeah.
For here, for sure.
For sure.
It is.
And then if you're an athlete, afall athlete, especially now all
of a sudden you're thrown intothe deep end right away.
But you but again, you're, it ispast no record.
You get used to being in seasonand what that's before, before
you have to deal with grades.
Which is fantastic.
I love that idea.
(09:20):
And I love that for every schoolin the country, I would imagine
your kids.
They've been disappointed thatthey got a 99% instead of a
hundred.
They got, they got a 97, myson's like this.
Yeah.
He came home the other day andhe goes, dad, my grade dropped
in math.
It dropped from 102.5 down to101.4 and yeah.
(09:44):
And and he was disappointed withit because there was no extra
credit for this last test theytook.
So even getting a hundreddropped his grade.
And I would imagine your kidsare like that when they get
there.
They're such perfectionist, Iwould imagine.
Yeah.
And they have to get that.
Does that year help them getover some of that a little bit?
Yeah, for sure.
For sure, because they have toget over that pretty quickly and
understand it's not so muchabout the grades now, it's more
(10:07):
about, the learning experienceand what they're being exposed
to and getting that degree thatwill, help them, in their career
or going on to other, graduateschools.
What does that do for you as acoach?
What's your process with that?
I'm guessing you see a lot ofthat too, that you know their
lives are about, they wanna beperfect all the time.
They want to be An example is,yeah.
(10:28):
What's your process with that?
I think we use the upper classwomen a lot in that process to
help, our team culture.
For me, the team culture iseverything.
Yeah, it's everything for as faras our success, as far as how
they grow when they're here as,as far as how they feel
supported, as how they gainconfidence, all of that.
And that's through, leadershiptraining and everything else
(10:49):
that we do with everybody inthis program so that they can
help.
The, the underclass women tosucceed and feel okay with that
transition from high school tocollege.
I'm, I wanna dive into thatleadership development.
'cause I always talk, you and Iwere just having a conversation.
It wasn't, we weren't recordingit.
I'm, we would probably talk alittle bit more about that
(11:11):
process that freshmen gothrough.
I've always said if I can get afreshman.
A kid that comes into ourprogram, if I can get them by.
Halfway through their sophomoreyear for things to start
clicking and really start to getit.
I always feel like we've donesomething right for that kid, so
(11:32):
I'm really interested in sharingsome of this, the leadership
development that you do withyour kids and see if we can get
some 16 and 17 year olds andsome parents to start building
that, some of that into theirroutines.
What is some of the things thatyou're doing with that
development?
Yeah we do some formalleadership training with our
team and we do it witheverybody.
We do it spring of theirsophomore year.
(11:53):
So again that, that.
First, first semester ofsophomore year is a little bit
of a bear because now they're ongrades in season for the first
time and now they're into theirmore core classes, towards their
major, so it gets a littleharder.
So if they can get through thatfirst semester of sophomore
year, then it's downhill alittle bit after that, but then
(12:14):
that's when we feel that's thebest time for our leadership
training and that now they'reready.
They've really, they've foundthemselves, they've been
developing as a player, they'vebeen developing their
confidence.
They've been contributing alittle bit more.
Now they can take on thatleadership responsibility as a
class.
So we do it with everybody andeverybody knows they're expected
to lead.
There is no neutral.
(12:34):
They're all expected to add tothe team culture and they take
it pretty seriously.
'cause we sit'em down and we gothrough about, five or six
meetings where we're goingthrough.
Two different books and I, I'vebeen doing this so long that I
have just anecdote anecdote,stories about great leaders and
not so great leaders that we'vehad in the past, between the
(12:55):
men's and women's programs thatI've coached here.
And so they all take it on andit, they love it.
They love it.
It's leveling up for them andthat that, and that goes to the
whole, taking ownership of theteam and the culture.
And that for me is the biggestpowerful and the most powerful
thing that can happen is when ateam takes ownership of itself
and is accountable for itself.
(13:15):
And that's really the key tobeing successful and having a
great team culture.
And so this leadership training.
Certainly facilitates that in abig way.
I love that.
What are the books you're havingthem read?
We, there's a short book calledYou Don't Need a Title to Be a
Leader.
That's a short one.
And then we do the Jeff Jansen,leadership manual, captain's
(13:36):
leadership manual book.
We just go through it and wehave a conversation.
And we're just talk andeverybody goes through it so
they know there's nobody leftout.
And they're all, then they'reall gonna lead in their way and
they learn how to lead as aclass and play off of each
other's strengths and weaknesseswithin that class.
And then it's ultimately, whatkind of legacy do they wanna
leave behind as a class, andthey know they're responsible
(13:58):
for that.
It's so great because, I alwaystalk about the power of the
group and if everybody knows theexpectations and everybody's
learning the same thing aboutwhat a leader is and what those
examples are, it's so mucheasier to lead when you're
leading as a group, when you'releading together.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
I love that.
(14:18):
And it's coach, it's so smart tostart this after that first year
and a half, because I wouldimagine through your 30 years,
that's where the comfort levelsinks in, I would imagine.
Where they, yeah.
They're starting to beauthentic.
They're starting to figure out,okay, I belong here.
I would imagine.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, yeah.
And they've had, this thingbuilds on itself because if
(14:41):
you've been doing this a longtime and have this in place.
Then they've had great leadersahead of them that included them
and that helped, supported themand helped bring them along and,
and gave them a voice.
And so that they've had thesegreat examples and they want to
do what the seniors have done.
They come in as first years andthey're like, Hey, I want to be
like her man.
She's got it all on lockdownacademically and socially, and
(15:02):
she's a great player and a greatleader on this team.
How do I do that?
And I can say they weren't likethat when they showed up, they
were just like you.
They couldn't find their way tothe gym.
They didn't know what was goingon.
But if you buy into the systemand buy into the culture, and
are rewarded by it, you start toinvest in it.
And then you wanna do the samething and become those kinds of
people and do it and do thewonderful things that they did
(15:23):
for you, for people below you.
So it's this great this rockthat just keeps rolling and
gathering more and more moss.
Yeah.
My, my brain is exploding with,like civil engineering and
structural engineering and gen,genetic engineering
methodologies because, I canjust see these kids taking that
and going, we're I'm building abridge here.
(15:43):
I'm building a bridge to this,to that from my freshman year to
my sophomore year, to mysophomore year, to my future.
So I just love all that.
Did they get that?
Do.
Oh yeah.
Do they get those analogies andthose metaphors?
Yeah.
Oh, for sure.
I'm sure they jump all over thatstuff.
Yeah, they're great.
That's awesome.
When do you know a kid isstarting to get comfortable at,
(16:04):
not only at MIT, but comfortablebeing the student athlete you
saw in them when you saw them at16, 17 years old.
I think it comes in competitionand, that's when you re, when
they start to feel comfortablein competition and not
overanalyzing every play thatthey made and def or deflecting
(16:25):
mistakes or owning too many ofthe mistakes.
And when they start to just getreally confident and comfortable
and being able to move on to thenext play.
And not worry about what justhappened, and let that be the
end all, be all of theirvalidation and who they think
they're supposed to be, andhaving this expectation of who
they think they're supposed tobe and just play right and just
(16:47):
be confident in that and notworry about the score so much.
Or worry about what does thismean if we're not beating this
team, we think we're supposed tobeat, or.
Or, all those things.
And I think it's when you startto see them be comfortable in
those moments, you start to seethat yeah they've starting to
figure it out.
I know you probably get sick ofthis, so I don't want to beat
(17:09):
the high academic to death here,and I don't want to beat the MIT
idea to death here because whatyou're doing as a coach is
phenomenal and what you'veaccomplished at M-I-T-I-I know
without a doubt, coach, I couldput you on any campus in the
country and you'd be able toreplicate it in your own way.
I do want to talk about thosekey ingredients, though.
(17:30):
To cultivating not onlylong-term development, but
cultivating that trust with yourkids in that high academic D
three environment.
'cause I was a D three headcoach for a long time, and it
really doesn't matter where yougo.
D three it's 80% academics andmaybe it's 20% athletics.
It's we really have that focus.
(17:51):
So what are some of those keyingredients to build and
cultivate that trust with thesekids?
I think it's establishingrelationships and communication
that, that to me is the key.
I have, several, meetingsthroughout the season with each
player with each class.
And so this, that communicationis critical.
(18:13):
There's been, as a youngercoach, sometimes when things
were going, okay, I might skip amid-season meeting or something
like that because we just didn'thave time, and that's when
things go awry.
With either the individual orwith the group that
communication and letting themknow that I'm here for them and
help facilitate and collaboratewith them on their journey, on
their growth journey and andletting them know that it's not
(18:35):
going to be easy.
It's going to be hard, and it'show, how do you get better at
handling hard and how do you getbetter at being uncomfortable
and understanding that's.
That's where you're gonna grow.
And that's and that's part ofthe journey and helping
everybody on their own personaljourney through it and really
communicating with'em and reallyestablishing that relationship
as coach, player, coach, mentor,whatever you have it, but also
(18:59):
as an adult relationship, notjust, oh, I'm the player, you're
the.
Or I'm, you're the player, I'mthe coach.
And just do what I tell you now,it's, this is your team, this is
your journey.
Let's collaborate and figure outhow for how you're gonna reach
your potential.
Now, I'm gonna challenge youalong the way, and I'm gonna
push you to try to push you to alevel that I think you can get
to.
(19:19):
And that might not always becomfortable for you but.
We're gonna talk about it.
It's not just gonna be, ohyou're just uncomfortable and
coach sucks because you may,he's making me uncomfortable.
This is why I'm making you feeluncomfortable and how are you
responding to that?
And let's talk about that.
And establishing thoserelationships and that's.
If you're coming at people witha sincere and a sincere trying
(19:42):
to help them, then they reallycan buy into that if they really
feel that you're sincere in, inhaving their best interest at
heart.
I think that's the key tocoaching at any level.
Yeah.
Youth, high school, collegedoesn't matter is getting them
to understand, listen, I've beendoing this a long time, I have a
lot of answers.
That doesn't mean I have all theanswers, and it doesn't mean I
(20:02):
know all the answers for you andwhat you need.
It's about, I, you've gottalearn to trust me to the point
where you gotta say, coach, Isee this differently, or I'm
struggling with this and howwe're approaching it.
Can we talk about that?
Oh, for sure.
And getting that, getting themto understand that's a part of
this process.
It's a part of this ownership issometimes we may not agree or
(20:24):
maybe I've gotta learn somethingfrom you.
Oh yeah.
And that's critical.
And I tell them first day, thefirst years, especially like I,
I'm not sitting up in my officeand twirling my mustache and
trying to make your lifemiserable.
If you have an issue with whatI'm doing or what I'm saying,
you talk, talk to me about it.
I'm open to you, pushing back onwhat I'm saying or what I'm
doing and how we're, and howwe're doing things as a team.
(20:46):
I want your input.
This is your experience.
And you need to advocate foryourself within that.
But if you don't talk to me Iwon't know what's wrong.
So I might be making a mistakeday in and day out, and you're
mad about it, but I don't evenknow what it is, so let's talk
about it.
So they get ample opportunity todo that, and I put that
ownership on them to, if they'renot happy with something, what
(21:07):
have they done about it?
Have you talked to a, an upperclass woman about it?
Have you talked to a captain orassistant coach or me?
You can't just sit and in yourown, your own doldrums.
You not, you need to talk aboutit.
Yeah.
I would imagine the psychologyof coaching is a little bit
different for you than it mightbe at Boston College or at.
(21:32):
At a, at, a junior collegesomewhere you've got kids that
maybe.
Don't know how to ask for help.
'cause maybe they haven't had todo it before.
Or they've just got it in theirmind that they're not supposed
to ask for help.
Do you have to overcome that oris there a way to overcome that?
Or just understand?
Oh, I think it's justestablishing that relationship
and that trust and they feelthat they can trust you.
(21:54):
And I tell them all the time,look, I'm not gonna try to talk
you out of something, a decisionthat you're making.
I'm gonna just give you maybesome different ways to think
about it or different ways tocome at it or give you a
resource to talk to somebodyelse about it that I know will
give you some insight.
And I tell them, try not to makedecisions in a vacuum.
Like talk, talk to people aboutit and before you make a
decision, because, there's somuch experience here within the
(22:17):
team and within the coachingstaff and within m MIT in
general that can help you withthat.
Yeah.
Or give you just differentthings to think about.
I.
Where does failure live in yourprogram?
It lives daily.
Daily.
And I let'em know that I, it'sand I tell them, you're gonna
fail.
You're gonna fail here.
(22:38):
And it's how do you handle that?
And use that as a growthexperience.
And they're really good aboutlifting each other up.
I tell the players this all thetime, that.
Look, I'm not, if you dig a ballthat was hit directly at you,
I'm not going to just sing yourpraises.
'cause that's what you'resupposed to do.
I, your teammates can do that.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna be pushingyou to another level.
And the teammates support eachother.
(22:59):
They know I'm gonna challengethem.
Yeah.
When they do something great,I'm gonna make sure that we
celebrate that.
But it's not it's, it's notgonna be just a daily.
You're wonderful, right?
Yeah.
It's just, that's not gonna,that's not gonna help them out
in the real world.
They do fail.
A lot and I want them to fail inpractice, and they want, I want
(23:20):
them to find that ledge, so tospeak, in practice of what
they're capable of.
And so that, in, in match play,they know not to try to go there
if they're under pressure,right?
That's not a shot you're capableof hitting and you've, we've
known this because you've triedit in practice where it was
free, where you're free to makethose mistakes and free to find
that ledge and f and find outwhat you're capable of, and then
(23:40):
keep pushing the limit of thatin practice.
So that, you can play with somediscipline when we're competing.
Yeah.
That for me, discipline is a bigthing when we're competing.
I love it.
Yeah.
I'm with you there.
And you're a top 10 15 in thecountry program year in and year
out.
I don't know any coach wherediscipline is in a huge part of
(24:03):
being able to get there.
That routine, that this is howwe're going to do it.
We're gonna learn how to do thisthe right way, and once we do it
the right way, then it's gonnabecome who we are.
And having that discipline toget there is hard.
I'm gonna ask you a bridgequestion here, coach.
Okay.
Because you, we talked aboutthis a little bit before we, we
record it, and I just think it'sfascinating.
(24:24):
I worked, I was the head coachat University of Laverne for a
number of years, so I got reallyclose with the staff and the
coaches at Caltech there in thestate league.
Yep.
Yep.
So I, I really understand fromthat, those relationships and
the long conversations we have,what you're going through as a
coach, and I know there's a lotof similarities between your two
universities.
(24:44):
Give the audience.
A short list of some of theinternships your kids are in
right now and some of thethings, some of the places
they're working and learning howto work.
And I think, all your higheracademic institutions, and
there's so many great programsout there in division three and
so many great coaches.
It's it's so collegiate outthere and yeah, and we're all in
(25:05):
awe of what our student athletesare doing on a daily basis.
And then what they're doing,while they're at the school and
so they're just in these,internships all over the
country, all over the world.
Over the summers and doing I hada player that, was from kind of
rural Michigan.
This was a few, this was yearsago and didn't really get to
travel outside of her kind ofMidwest area very much at all.
(25:27):
Even, played for a smaller club,but came to MIT was one, was
became a really great player forus.
And, her first summer she did,she was into programming and so
she did she did her firstinternship with Google in San
Francisco, and then I think thenext summer she did one with
Spotify in New York City.
Then she did one for Google in,in Austria, and then so she was.
(25:49):
She already had two job offers,but be before her senior year
even started.
And so she was choosing betweenAustria or Northern California.
And she was, in a conundrumabout it.
I said this is a tough problemto have.
And this is someone that neverreally traveled.
And then the world basicallythrough MIT and, those kinds of
opportunities, for us are secondto none as far as what
(26:11):
opportunities afforded to themwhen they're here, as well as,
the people that they'resurrounded by.
It's just this amazingexperience for them.
And I joke with them all thetime.
They tell me what they're gonnado over the summer and I say,
oh, geez, it's too bad.
MIT didn't really give you anyopportunity to do anything fun
or cool while you're here.
Meanwhile I'm stuck here allsummer, fighting the battle of,
Falmouth Road in West Newtonevery day.
(26:31):
And, they're off, off, justhaving these wonderful, worldly
experiences.
And then they go off and dothese amazing things in life.
And we have a former, studentathlete who's an astronaut and
she may end up being the firstwoman on the moon.
That's, to me is that'sincredible.
That's awesome.
So they, volleyball's just,helped prepare them for that, I
hope.
And yeah, and add some things totheir growth experience.
(26:53):
But they go on, do amazingthings and there's so many
schools that send those types ofpeople out into the world to
help make it a better place.
Yeah.
That's why I hope for the futureactually you and me both.
Yes, you and me both.
I remember talking to SandraMarba before a game.
We were, I was a basketballcoach and she was the head coach
at Caltech, and I'm looking outat pre-game and her and I are
(27:16):
having a conversation.
Our kids are warming up and Igo, Sandy, where are your best
two players?
She goes, she drops her head,she looks at me, she goes, one's
interviewing at Microsoft, theother one's interviewing at
nasa.
Yeah.
She's like, how do we tell themthat D three college basketball
(27:36):
game is more important thangoing to interview at Microsoft
and nasa?
So I know you're dealing withsimilar things.
So I wanted to, I wanted you totalk a little bit from your
experience about that, because Iwant to talk about helping these
kids find their balance.
That life balance between, beinga kid, they're still kids, being
a great student, thinking abouttheir future, thinking about
(27:57):
their career, thinking aboutwinning a national championship.
Yeah.
How do we help them find thatlife balance where they learn
how to be the best versions ofthemselves and not get caught up
in what they're supposed to bedoing at 50.
Yeah, that's hard.
They es especially, here it'sjust a go go.
Next thing, the next thing.
(28:17):
And I, I'm always trying totake, tell them to take time to
reflect, take time to thinkahead, take time to just be in
the moment.
Being in the moment for me isreally big here.
And trying to get them to dothat and enjoy those moments.
'cause it's just nonstop here.
Whether it's their athletics,whether it's.
Their, their academics, whetherit's the other groups, they're a
(28:38):
part of their researchopportunities.
All those things are going allat the same time, so they don't,
let's enjoy this win.
Let's enjoy what we justexperienced here versus, because
now they're on I have my problemsets that are due, and my
research opportunity thing istomorrow and I have this
interview for my, in my summerinternship the next day, and I
have this exam.
They're just onto the next thingover and over and over again.
(28:59):
And so they don't.
Sometimes get the chance toenjoy what they're a part of.
And that's why I think,athletics, especially at a high
academic institution is soimportant because it does give
them that balance, right?
It does give them that being apart of something bigger than
themselves and going to play thesport they love for two hours
every day.
(29:19):
And they can't be doing thoseother things or be thinking
about those other things becausethey're in this moment of
enjoying this great sport withthese great people that they
love and having these loftygoals of playing for conference
championships and nationalchampionships, right?
Yeah.
So that, that the sport itselfdoes provide that balance in a
big way.
I love it.
Yeah.
(29:39):
It's such I get I'm frustratedright now because, it's at the
high school level.
I have a son that's in middleschool and my daughter's in high
school, and we've really goneaway from how you and I grew up,
and I'm, I imagine you had thesame background where we went to
PE every day.
We had a physical educationclass every day.
We were running, sweating,playing a game, playing a sport,
(30:00):
competing, learning, learninghow to be healthy.
And that's gone away, there's nomandatory PE anymore in high
school.
My daughter plays volleyball andgolf, so she takes, that's her
class, that's her PE supposedly.
Yeah.
My son only has PE like onceevery two or three weeks.
So it's hard for me to acceptthat's the right thing to do.
(30:20):
That's healthy for these kids.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, I just finished coaching ata high school.
I did some high school coachinglast couple years, and the high
school I was coaching at had wonthe, I think they were the
leaders in SAT scores for fourstraight years.
These are kids that studied forfour hours a night.
The kind of kids that you're Iwould imagine are recruiting.
(30:43):
I'm so mad at myself becausethe, it was so hard just to get
gym time.
It was just so hard to get, anhour and a half, two hour
practice every night that I gotaway from some of the things I
did as a college coach, where,I'd see our guys retired or our
gals retired, and I'd go, allright.
Put the basketballs away.
We're gonna get out the whiffleball sticks, and we're gonna
play Whiffle Ball day, or we'regonna get everybody on a bus and
(31:04):
we're gonna go to watch a movietoday.
Just to get them to breathe andremember that we're a family and
I'm mad at myself.
I didn't do more of that.
I.
Are you finding that you have todo some of those things?
You have to build some of those?
Maybe if it's, maybe it's on atrip where you're going
somewhere for a game or atournament.
Sure.
And you Sure.
And you say, Hey, we're notgonna think about volleyball
(31:24):
here for a half, half a day.
We're gonna go to the zoo.
We're gonna go to the, to amuseum and have fun.
Yeah.
I think we try to do that.
I think within practice I think.
I'm not, I have some coachingcolleagues that do their fun
games and things like that.
It's just not me.
I've tried to do a little bit ofthat.
It's, yeah, I do some of thatcertainly preseason for team
bonding, but I think we buildinto our, some of our
(31:47):
competitive drills and gamesthat we do we build a fun
element into that sometimes.
So I think we try to get ourbalance that way and.
We get such a short time withthem.
Practice wise, we, mi t's nicebecause they do set aside a five
to seven window for activities,so there are no classes or
exams, so they know that's,there's no conflicts.
(32:08):
But you've got people cominglate from lab that, that went
until five and you've got peoplethat have an exam at seven 30,
so they've gotta leave, a littlebit before seven so they can get
something to eat.
So we do have a short amount oftime and we're gonna jam it
with.
Volleyball and, fun and there,our team culture's a fun culture
in practice too.
We'll compete and get after it,but we also have a lot of fun.
(32:28):
And depending on the day, whendo we want to be locked in and
focused and when do we want tobe a little bit more loose,
depending on the drill anddepending on the time of year.
Or depending on what the teamneeds, that's the other piece.
We try to make some of thedrills fun and make the
competing fun and they're justso switched on about wanting to
get better.
Yeah.
So they all coach each other andpush each other and so that's
(32:48):
fun for them, I think.
Yeah.
That's the feedback I get.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I the longer I coached, the moreI was building those things in,
I was, we're gonna do somethingcompetitive.
Every single day.
I want there to be thatcompetitive fun that, all right,
hey we're not doing a drill.
We're not doing a hitting drill,we're not doing a passing drill.
We're, there's thatcompetitiveness that I wanna win
(33:09):
this today.
And so I love that stuff.
From just a pure volleyballperspective.
Let's get into that a littlebit.
Sure.
And I feel like I'm wasting mytime with you if I'm not talking
about your volleyball brain.
What are some of.
That you guys do that you feellike separates you from the pack
in terms of your development?
(33:30):
And maybe it's the same things,but it's the consistency or the
routine or how you do it yourway.
Are there things that you feellike, okay, this is how we're
gonna do this to get ourselvesready to win a conference
championship again this year?
I think it's, like I said, I'm alot about discipline and that
kind of goes into style of playfor me.
For me I really want them to bethinking about, what is gonna
(33:54):
set them up for successsituationally and what do we do?
What's my decision makingprocess in every different
situation that I may see as aplayer based on what's
happening?
Within this point.
And so really, putting togetherdrills that are gonna allow for
that, but also within the drill,whatever it is, I'm gonna stop
and say what, did you get to agood point of preparation there
(34:17):
in transition?
What was your decision makingprocess defensively?
What did you see?
What are you reading here?
What you know?
Are you actually working hard intransition?
Are, to get to a good point ofpreparation?
Are you making good decisionswhen we're out of system?
Those types of things.
For me it's a lot about style ofplay.
So I stop, when we'repracticing, I'll stop a lot to
(34:38):
talk about or to ask, what areyou seeing here?
What should you be doing here?
Yeah.
And so then for me it's allabout.
We're trying to create stabilityin our side of the net and
create chaos on their side ofthe net.
And so if you're not stable as aplayer, and that means the
timing's not good you're on theway down the set was a bad
location, then your job is tokeep the ball in play and let us
(35:00):
fight, another day, so to speak.
And if you're stable andeverything's good, I want you to
be super aggressive and getafter it and make aggressive
errors, right?
But we don't want to give pointsaway.
It's too, the.
The margin for error against areally good team is not much.
Yeah.
It's two or three points.
If you're limiting your errors,just unforced errors to, six or
seven, that's really hard for ateam to score 19 points.
(35:25):
You, getting a bad set doesn'tgive you carte blanche to hit
the ball 20 feet out.
That wasn't there.
Yeah.
And you have to recognize andfix.
That's right.
So those are some of the things,we're very disciplined in how we
do things in practice.
And I, they know what theyshould be doing or what they
shouldn't be doing in alldifferent scenarios.
And so it's, it is situational.
(35:46):
And again, in practice we'regonna talk about finding that
ledge.
Yeah.
Okay.
You went after it and tried tomake this crazy shot.
In this particular situation,and that's fine in practice.
'cause now you know, yeah, youcan make that shot or no, you
cannot make that shot.
So at, 14, 14 in the fifth setyou, that's not something you
want to try to pull out justbecause you didn't score on the
(36:08):
last three swings.
So figuring out what they'recapable of in practice, I think
is key.
And having that discipline andfor me, having them coach each
other and hold each otheraccountable.
And it has to cross class lines.
Everybody has to be doing it forus to get better.
And so they're gonna push eachother and they're gonna
encourage each other and they'regonna expect a lot out of each
other.
(36:28):
And they're gonna vocalize that.
And hold each other to this,whatever this, our standard is.
And our standard is based on,what the drill is or how we
carry ourselves or how wepractice on a day-to-day basis.
The standard is the standard andthey all know what it is.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's great.
And I want I want any coachesthat are listening to this, we
have a lot of high school youthcoaches and other college
(36:50):
coaches that listen to this.
What I hear consistently fromgreat coaches like you is the
difference between Good to Greatis in, in terms of being on the
court and teaching.
The difference is telling versusasking, and I keep hearing that
from you, that Socratic method.
Yeah.
I'm not just gonna stop practiceand tell you what you're doing
(37:12):
wrong.
I'm gonna ask you.
Was that the right approach?
Or why did you make thatdecision?
Am I in the right world there?
Oh, for sure.
Oh, it's a lot ofself-reflection and figuring out
what you know, what you weredoing, why you were doing it,
what decision were you makingthere?
Because, I'll see them make thisegregious error and be like, and
I, in my head, I'm thinking,what the heck was she thinking?
(37:33):
And then I'll ask her, and thenshe explains it and I'm like,
okay.
Yeah, that makes sense.
I see what you're trying to dothere.
That's fine.
That's a good error to make nowand understand what, what
adjustment to make to alleviatethat or just don't do that
again.
Depending, so that, that's wherethe, that's where the learning
happens.
That's where the growth happens.
And I think it's.
(37:53):
For me, it's a mix of techniqueand having the, the skill drills
and working that technique.
So they have this the techniqueto be able to execute the skill
that they need to execute whenthey need to execute it.
And then playing the game sothey're seeing all the different
situations and competing andlearning how to compete.
'cause if, I tell'em all thetime, if you're thinking while
you're playing like.
While you're competing, you'renot competing anymore.
(38:16):
That's right.
Like you can't be thinking aboutyour footwork and you know
you've got, you, there's no wayYou can't, even if you can't
beat your own footwork, there'sno way you can beat the other
team.
You gotta trust your game oncethe whistle blows.
That's the other thing for us.
We talk a lot about trusting ourgame.
Like you're not all of a suddengonna grow six inches and jump
six inches higher.
When you put the uniform on andthe whistle blows, like
whatever, wherever you are.
(38:37):
As a player or wherever we areas a team.
When the whistle blows and westart to play, that's who we are
and we gotta trust that.
And that's good enough.
We don't need to be somethingwe're not, or try to be
something we're not.
All of a sudden we need to trustour game.
So I say Hey, you didn't forgethow to brush your teeth when you
woke up this morning, so youdidn't forget how to serve.
It's gonna be okay.
(38:58):
Yeah.
Coach.
I love the way you're answeringthe questions'cause you're very
much speaking to a largeaudience and I know, you've
listened to this the podcast acouple times is I'm, is we have
people that, that are parents,that have kids that play
baseball and we have parentsthat have kids that run track
and volleyball.
I'm gonna put you, I'm gonna putthe families in your camp for a
(39:18):
second.
I want them to see Coach Dill,the camp director, the camp
coach, the master teacher alittle bit.
Let's talk about hitting.
Okay.
Let's say I've got a daughterwho's a PIN hitter and she
struggles when that set isn'thigh enough or the set is short,
or the set is long, right.
(39:40):
Teach that pin hitter, how todeal with that before it's on
top of them.
What are we talking aboutfootwork.
When that set's about to hit thesetter, the ball's about to hit
that setter's hands.
What do I want my pin hitter tobe thinking about in terms of
footwork?
I think, for me, first of all,it's about getting to a good
(40:00):
point of preparation, right?
Are you, is your spacing good?
Did you get to a good place thatyou have a full runway to make
your full approach?
And that's not taught wellenough at the lower levels.
Like it's just, oh, I'm gonnabackpedal and I'm gonna get to
about the 10 foot line.
And now the set, set, the sixfoot line, because the setter
set it off.
So I have actually no realapproach now.
(40:21):
So I'm not gonna be dynamic, I'mnot gonna be jumping as high,
I'm not gonna be hitting ashard.
So getting further off, to agood point of preparation off
the net and off the court orwherever it is that you're
supposed to be, that you have a,you're for your full athletic
runway, whatever that is for youas a, as a player.
Like for me, like middle hittersin transition, they have this
invisible force field at the 10foot line.
(40:41):
And it doesn't matter whether itwas a free ball or whatever,
they just stopped there.
And wait.
And it's like you're huge.
You can make a big run, a bigapproach, and be super dynamic.
Get as far off as you can, giventhe time that you have to do it.
Yeah.
There's certain times intransition where everything
happens very quickly and youdon't have time to get off, but
when you got, you've gotta workhard to get as far off as
possible.
(41:01):
And then that footwork is aboutwaiting on that first step a
little bit and then reallyexploding into your approach.
And that, that's big for me.
And then, how do you get how doyou avoid making these errors?
It's practicing the bad set.
Here's, you're, I want, I'mgonna, I'm gonna place these
balls I'm gonna feed you theseballs.
And they're all gonna be alittle further outside that you
(41:23):
would like them right.
Now, how do you deal with thattechnically?
What's the technique used to fixthat?
You are, I'm gonna, I'm gonnahave you do your approach and be
early, so you're on the waydown.
What do you do now?
So that you don't hit it intothe net, those types of things
are, this ball's gonna be wayinside, let's practice.
What do you do with that?
So it's the same thing with kindof service receive we get
(41:45):
players and all they just getrandom reps and that's great for
learning to read serves anddoing that.
But they don't know thetechnique to pass a ball that's
deep over their left shoulder.
They just, they've neveractually learned it, right?
So you're gonna, we have topractice all those things in
order so that they have thetechnique so that when it is
deep over their left shoulderand they got beat, or they
thought it was gonna besomewhere else, and now they've
(42:06):
gotta play it deep over theirleft shoulder, they're capable
of doing it.
So it's practicing the badthings that can happen and
figuring out what is thetechnique to deal with these
different situations.
'cause everybody can hit theperfect ball if you've been
playing long enough.
That's great.
That's great.
But that's not the game.
It is when you're in system andyou have a great setter.
That's right.
Sure.
And that's what everybody likesand that's hitting lines, but
(42:29):
that's not the flow of play.
That's right.
What is that technique on a deepball for a left side hitter that
it's, everybody coaches a littlebit differently.
I think.
You know what I find works forus is we talk a lot about.
Drop stepping and picking a sideand never, we don't really pass
center line unless it's a reallysuper easy ball.
We want'em to choose a sidereally quickly, drop step, get
(42:50):
back and have that that angleplatform waiting for the ball
and then being able to push thatangle towards the target.
Yeah.
And instead of swinging our armsback.
So it's recognizing and pickingso we'll practice where our
players are, in service, likeright behind the 10 foot line.
And the serves are going to beintentionally behind them.
(43:10):
And so they've gotta learn toReno, drop step, get back and
get that angle out above theirshoulder and figure out how does
that work, right From different,from the ball coming from
different angles from them andthe different positions they
could be in servicey wise, andgetting reps at that.
I think that's critical.
I love it.
I love it and it's such a toughthing.
My daughter's a back row playerand just getting her to
(43:32):
understand that drop step andgetting your frame there, you're
often gonna make a better passor the ball's not gonna be right
at you.
If you can get your body turnedto get that frame and get your
arms extended you're gonna havemore ability to move that ball
where you want it.
Yeah.
But it takes intentional repswith everything.
It does, yeah.
Coach you up for a little bit ofrapid fire.
Whatever you want.
(43:53):
Okay.
Let's have some fun with youhere.
Okay.
What's one word your playerswould use to describe your
coaching style?
Let's see.
One word.
I think maybe challenging.
I think challenging would be bigfor them.
They know I'm gonna challenge'emand I'm gonna come at'em.
And that I'm not gonna take iteasy on'em.
And again, it's different foreverybody.
(44:13):
I'm gonna try to figure out whatworks best for everybody and
not, and find out how far I canpush somebody and how they like
to be pushed.
And that takes me getting toknow them and them getting to
know me and having thatrelationship.
For sure.
Love it.
What's the most memorable win ofyour career?
Because you've had a lot ofthem.
I.
I think, Maybe, winning thatfirst that first conference
(44:40):
championship having our lobero,a stair loro to, for the
championship point.
I think that was a big one.
Making the Elite eight andwinning that regional
championships.
Those are really big moments.
I think winning a conferencechampionship at Springfield af
reverse sweeping them in thefinal after they reverse swept
us earlier in the season.
I think that's a, that's anamazing moment as far as being a
(45:02):
part of that match was just sofun.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That first conferencechampionship, that, that's the
first one that always comes tomy head too,'cause.
You, that's when you go, I didit.
We got this team to the pointwhere we were the best in our
league.
And that's so huge.
Love that.
Favorite volleyball player orcoach for you to watch?
(45:23):
Oh, wow.
Oh man.
That's a tough one.
That's a tough one.
So many.
I don't know if I have, I don'tknow if I have a favorite.
I don't know.
Is there somebody you admire?
Is there somebody that youappreciate what they've done and
I have so much respect andadmire so many of the coaches
(45:43):
that I get to coach against andI tell people this all the time
for scheduling for me, yeah.
I gotta worry about the NPI nowand all of that and schedule
correctly, but at the same timeI like to schedule people that I
like.
Yeah.
To see so I was the same.
I, I have my, my, obviouslywe've got great coaches in our
conference, and then a lot ofthe NECA coaches at Tufts and
Con College and Middlebury andplaces like that.
(46:06):
I love to play those people andYeah.
NYU and, just other coaches thatI enjoy being around and enjoy
that comradery as coaches.
That's one of my favorite partsof the job, so that's I admire I
like watching them coach aswell, and so I, I enjoy that and
seeing how they do it and seeingthem get it, passionate about
(46:26):
things and just enjoying that,that comradery is really big.
Do you have a pregame,superstition or a routine?
Is there something you do beforeevery game?
I do, but I don't, I'm not gonnashare that.
I think it's just, it's a verypersonal, just little thing that
I like to do.
Sure.
But I, I we have a little thingthat we do as a team in the team
room before a match.
(46:47):
There's a whiteboard there, andwhen I walk, the team's already
in there, and then I walk inwith the assistant coaches to
give in the, the scouting reportor go over it again and and give
them some motivation, I guesssome motivational words, but.
But the first thing we do isthey always put up on the
whiteboard, a hangman that Ihave to figure out.
And so that I love it.
That's so good.
Yeah.
(47:07):
And and usually by threequarters of the way through the
season my, my bandwidth is low.
And so I can't think very wellanymore.
And so they start to stump me alittle bit more, but they enjoy
it.
I enjoy it.
And being a liberal arts guythat I am I love it when I can
get it.
On them.
And so it's good.
Very cool.
Yeah.
One quality you value most in ateam Captain.
(47:31):
Selflessness, I think.
And communication.
Those are the two big ones.
Love that.
Yeah.
That's so important.
So important for leadership.
Last one.
Best thing about coaching atMIT.
The people, the department isamazing.
The student athletes, the kindof people that come here are.
Just unbelievable to work with.
(47:53):
And I don't have to worry aboutdiscipline or drama or, they're,
they buy in, they wanna be greatat whatever it is that they do.
And especially like a highacademic place, if they're gonna
put their time into some,there's so many other things
pulling at their time, right?
And so if they're gonna puttheir time into this, it has to
be great.
It has to be fun.
It has to be challenging.
They have to have some chance atsuccess individually and as a
(48:15):
team.
And so they're gonna, they're,they wanna make it a great
experience, so I put it on them.
Otherwise they won't do it.
It's not worth their time.
There's too many other thingsgoing on so that's what I love
about it.
Thank you coach.
This has been so much fun.
I'm excited to talk somerecruiting with you.
So for those of you that haveenjoyed this, come back on
Monday, coach and I are gonnahave a quick discussion on
(48:37):
recruiting and get some advicefrom on there.
So thanks coach.
Appreciate it.
My pleasure.
My pleasure.
I.
What an incredible conversationwith Coach Paul Dill from MIT.
His three decade journey at MITis a masterclass in consistency,
intentionality, and highstandards, both on and off the
court.
Whether it's his use of theSocratic method, his ability to
(48:58):
develop leaders, I or how hemaximizes one of the most
competitive academic recruitingpools in the country.
Coach Dill proves that greatcoaching is about more than
wins.
It's about lasting impact.
If you're a coach looking tobuild something special or an
athlete wondering what trueexcellence looks like, this
episode was full of insight andwisdom you won't find in a
(49:20):
textbook.
Before we wrap, don't forget tocheck out my new book, the
Softball Recruits Journal.
It's your playbook for owningthe recruiting process, staying
organized, and making confidentdecisions about your future.
You'll find it in plenty of freetools and resources
over@coachmattrogers.com.
And be sure to come back onMonday for our significant
(49:40):
recruiting episode where CoachDill and I dive deep into the
recruiting side of the collegeathletics journey.
You won't want to miss it.
Thanks for listening and asalways, keep coaching with
significance.
See you next time.
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