June 23, 2025 • 24 mins
🎙️ Significant Recruiting Podcast – Featuring Paul Dill (MIT Volleyball)
In this episode, I’m joined by Paul Dill, Head Volleyball Coach at MIT, to talk about what recruiting looks like inside one of the most selective academic institutions in the country. With over 1,000 career wins and decades of experience, Coach Dill shares what it takes to identify, evaluate, and support student-athletes who thrive both on the court and in the classroom.
We discuss:
- How recruiting changes when your pool is limited to 4.0 GPA/1450+ SAT athletes
- What Coach Dill looks for beyond talent
- The importance of curiosity, communication, and character
- Why being recruitable is about more than your stats
This conversation is full of perspective for any family navigating the recruiting process—especially those considering high-academic colleges and D3 programs.
📘 The Softball Recruit’s Journal is now the #1 New Release on Amazon in three categories!
👉 Get the Journal on Amazon
🌐 For more tools, podcast episodes, and free recruiting strategy sessions, visit coachmattrogers.com
Learn more and connect with Matt Rogers here: https://linktr.ee/coachmattrogers
Listen on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, iHeartRadio, and all your favorite podcast platforms.
Did you like what you heard and want more?
New Podcasts every week. Remember to subscribe and follow wherever you get your podcasts.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
If you're gonna email a coach,email'em directly.
(00:02):
You go through the recruitingservices, the email chain starts
over every time that they do.
So if I'm looking back and Iwanna look back on our
conversation, I can't to remindmyself of whatever I think,
having that individual email,making it as easy as possible
for the coach to access theinformation that you want me to
have if I have to jump throughseveral hoops and.
(00:23):
Make an account somewhere and doall this to see your film.
I'm not gonna do it.
Welcome back to SignificantRecruiting.
I'm Coach Matt Rogers.
Before we jump into today'sepisode, I wanna say a huge
thank you, the Softball RecruitsJournal.
Just hit number one this weekendon Amazon's new release list.
(00:46):
In three different categories.
I'm incredibly grateful for thesupport and I truly hope the
tools inside like the WeeklyReflections, the Coach
communication templates and theVisit Prep guides are helping
families take real ownership oftheir recruiting journey.
So thank you to everyone.
If you haven't checked it outyet, head over to coach matt
(01:06):
rogers.com or to amazon.comdirectly for more details and
free resources for both athletesand parents.
Now today's guest is one of themost respected coaches in
college volleyball.
Coach Paul Dill from MIT.
We had a powerful conversationon Friday about coaching and
leadership, and that naturallyled us into this follow-up
(01:28):
conversation about recruiting,especially what does it take to
identify and develop elitestudent athletes in one of the
most competitive academicenvironments in the country?
Let's dive in.
Here's my conversation withCoach Paul Dill.
there's so many families that Italk to that their dream for
their kid is an MIT, to go toschool in your league.
(01:50):
'cause there's so many greatschools there.
Are there things that they needto understand about how you need
to recruit as the co head coachat MIT?
Well, I think, mi t's prettyunique.
I think maybe Caltech would bethe only other place that
doesn't have, we don't have anykind of early reads.
(02:10):
We don't have any, athleticslots pre-reads, anything like
that.
They've gotta get in on our, ontheir own.
We can recommend we can.
Support people, but there's noguarantees with that.
And we literally find out thesame day that they do if they've
gotten in.
Right.
But what they need to know is,especially for any kind of high
academic school, is.
(02:33):
They need to get in that processa little bit earlier so they
understand what, how to setthemselves up to be as
competitive an applicant aspossible based on the
requirements of the school.
For us, if they're not takingthe right classes and don't have
the right classes by the timethey graduate.
There's nothing we can do forthem.
(02:54):
They're just not gonna get in,they're not gonna be a
competitive applicant.
So setting themselves up to betaking the right kind of math
and science classes, in ourcase, in other schools, and
might be other classes, and whatkind of grades are gonna be
required in those classes to bea competitive applicant is
information that they kind ofneed to know as early as
possible in the process.
(03:15):
Because kids come to me a littlebit later in the process and
it's too late.
They, they, they haven't takenthe right classes or they've had
a, a couple of lower gradesthat's just not gonna, it's just
not gonna cut it for the, thecom the 4% admit rate that MIT
has.
Understanding whatever schoolsyou might be interested in,
especially the high academicones, is what is it that I need
to do?
To set myself up to be acompetitive applicant, whether
(03:37):
it's the classes you're taking,the grades that you have, the
test scores that you need, andthen setting yourself up to do
those things.
Okay.
Well, we use, we'll use mydaughter as a hypothetical.
We come to visit, we set up avisit with you after her junior
year, and we asked.
Coach, what's more important toget into MIT?
(03:57):
Is it honors, is it ap, is itib?
What, where do we need to be?
What kind of classes do we needto be taking?
Right.
And the level and the, to justto have a shot at getting, yeah.
So what's the answer to that?
Yeah.
So for MIT, the admissionsprocess is about they, they
wanna find a good fit for MITand what makes a good fit for
MIT?
What kind of kid is a is an MITkid, well, a kid that's an MIT
(04:20):
kid.
Wants to be taking the highestlevel math and science classes
they can possibly take at theirschool.
Right.
Does it matter if it's ap?
If it's calculus, it matters.
Yeah.
Okay.
Because it, because what?
What?
Because what MIT will see is,okay, this, these are the
classes that this person hastaken.
Here are the classes that theschool offers.
(04:42):
Now, if there are more advancedclasses the school offers that
the kid has not taken, thentheir feeling is, well, this
person doesn't wanna challengethemselves.
They're not challengingthemselves enough.
And so, a kid that takes, calcbc let's say they're on a really
early track and they take CalcBC as a junior, and then they're
signed up to take AP stats as asenior.
(05:05):
That's a red flag at a placelike MIT because they're, they'd
be they're thinking would be,well, this kid should be taking
multi-variable calculus orlinear algebra, or something
more advanced.
And if they can't take it attheir school, maybe they should
try to take it at, a communitycollege or something like that.
Just that's how competitive itis to get in and what you're
facing as far as what everybodyelse has.
Now, if your school doesn'toffer Calc BC and the farthest
(05:27):
you can go is calc ab, then MITtakes that into consideration
for sure.
Okay.
It's about what are the highestlevel classes the school offers,
and are you taking them and areyou challenging yourself?
And are you getting A's in thoseclasses?
Yeah.
'cause because I go back to howI grew up.
I grew up in a farm communitywith 2000 people.
And we didn't have ap, we didn'thave International
(05:48):
Baccalaureate, we didn't have,right.
It's all, yeah.
It's all about what the schooloffers.
Yeah.
Are you taking the highest levelthat your school offers?
But I love the advice of, Hey,your school has a limit, but you
really want this and you'regonna challenge yourself.
Is there a local junior collegethat offers this level of
physics or this level of Right.
Of calculus, right.
So you can show Yeah.
I'm pushing myself to the nextlevel.
(06:09):
That's important.
Yeah.
Right.
Okay.
No, for sure.
All right.
I go round and round withfamilies on this and I never try
and tell a family what to do,but I try and give them the
option.
So I, MIT is very much on thefurthest end of the spectrum
here in terms of the places theycan get into.
(06:30):
Does MIT admissions look at thatcumulative GPA or the weighted
GPA and if that weighted GPA isa 4.1 and it could be a 4.5, can
that negatively affect theiradmissions?
I think it can potentially.
I think it's.
It's not too much about theweighted so much.
(06:52):
I think it's about, the gradesthat they're getting in those
classes overall.
And and again, are theychallenging themselves?
Right.
I think that's kind of thebiggest thing.
Okay.
Yeah, I, that's kind of the wayI preach it.
If you're taking the highestlevel class you can and you're
getting an A where you don'tneed that extra bump, maybe you
got a b plus and that B plus gotyou to an a.
(07:12):
With the weighted right.
That can sometimes work againstyou, I would imagine.
Yeah, a little bit, yeah.
All right.
Let's talk about A-C-T-S-A-T.
Sure.
I preach to parents they shouldbe taking both because of the
learning style in both.
Let your kid figure out thelearning style they have, take
(07:32):
both, whichever one they reallyfeel most comfortable with.
Take that 1, 3, 2, 3, 4 times.
Right.
Is that a.
A piece of advice for a kidthat's looking to get into MIT
or Caltech or a school likethat.
Alright.
Yeah, I think, I think taking ita little bit early so you gotta
get a sense of where you arewith it.
(07:54):
Yes.
And so, you know what you needto kind of work on a little bit.
Sophomore year, freshman yearnot freshman, I think.
I think freshman year is tooearly.
You're just not gonna beprepared, especially math wise
'cause you just haven't seen thestuff yet.
I think taking it I.
After sophomore year, I think ispretty big.
So you get a sense of where youare and then what you need to
work on so that when you'retaking it during your junior
(08:14):
year, you're you're more bebetter prepared.
Yeah.
I think that that's, that's key.
I think taking both is a goodidea to see again, which is
gonna be better for you and not,and I'd say don't sub
automatically submit any scoresanywhere.
Just have the scores and thenyou can submit them if you want
later.
Yeah you can submit your bestscore later, right?
Exactly.
(08:34):
Or score later, right?
Yeah, exactly.
You can super score and youYeah, exactly.
But if you're, if you maybedon't test as well on one, let's
say but you test a lot better onthe other, then you might not
wanna submit that first one atall and just go with the a CT
'cause that was better.
Or the SAT if that one wasbetter.
Uhhuh and your school will takewhat you either, either test
Yeah, it takes either test andthere's certain kind of, scores
(08:57):
they're looking for based on.
You know, especially the mathpiece is and that's kind of the
indicator to them of, oh, thisperson will be able to handle
the rigors of the curriculum.
They're going to, the rigors inthe curriculum that they're
gonna see math wise.
Yeah.
You know, scoring lower thanthat.
They probably won't do well atMIT.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
Let's get into volleyball.
'cause I know this is where youlive.
(09:17):
My, my former assistants stillmake fun of me'cause I had a
board, everything was colorcoded.
Four years out, we were lookingat freshmen, and they were
moving the board and they,sophomore and junior.
At what age will you startlooking at a kid and put'em on a
list if you see'em going intosophomore year.
Really?
(09:37):
Like there's some kids thatreach out before that and we'll,
they're on our list.
We have'em, but that's not,we're not kind of looking at
them too much yet.
I think, sophomores we're, wewant to start the conversation
with sophomores about theacademic side of things, about,
hey.
This is what you need to do toset yourself up to be
competitive and then kind ofkeep our eye on them
(09:59):
athletically and see how theydevelop.
Yeah.
And if they're gonna be someonethat can help us then, hopefully
we've given them all theinformation and they set
themselves up academically thento be as strong candidate.
So I think it's that sophomoreyear and then really the junior
year is kind of critical as faras their grades and everything
else.
And then and where and seeingwhere they're developing
athletically.
And I imagine you're askingabout test scores junior year
(10:21):
too.
Have you taken a TSD?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Do you have an early score?
Do you Yeah, we gotta get, yeah,we're interested to see like if
we wanna get there.
The we're, as soon as we starttalking to'em, we're saying, get
us your transcript, wheneverthat is.
And then, okay, every semesterafterwards, give us your latest
transcript.
Give us your latest transcript.
(10:41):
'cause if somewhere along thelines they come back with a
transcript that the grades arereally low, it's, we can start
to say, okay, this is probablynot gonna be a good fit.
Yeah.
And realize that earlier in theprocess.
But if they're keeping theirgrades up and they're taking the
right classes then we're gonnabe on the right track.
For sure.
Yeah.
And then obviously the athleticpiece, seeing them play and
(11:02):
seeing'em at these high academiccamps or seeing them at
tournaments and getting film onthem is critical in the process
or that to see how they'redeveloping so that when it comes
time for us to make a finaldecision on who we wanna support
who we think is gonna be a goodfit, we have as much information
as possible.
It.
It drives me crazy when I'mtalking to a family and or I'm
(11:23):
speaking somewhere and a familywill go our coach told us they
would take care of it.
Our club coach said they'regonna take care of our
recruiting.
Our high school coach says Wedon't need to start this till
the end of junior, early, senioryear.
And I wanna pull my hair outbecause I want families to
understand how important is tobuild a relationship with some
college coaches as sophomores,as juniors.
(11:44):
Because now somebody that reallyunderstands recruiting, really
understands how hard it is toget in the door, can coach you a
little bit and guide you alittle bit.
Yeah.
Do you appreciate that when youget to get your hands on a
really good kid as a sophomoreto help'em coach through the
next two years?
Yeah, I think that's critical.
I think that's critical.
And that's because they need totake ownership of their own
(12:05):
journey, so to speak.
Because the parents really can'tdo it for them.
I mean, they can help.
Obviously, but they need to takeownership of it a little bit.
And they need to make sure thatthey are, they're communicating
with coaches and figuring outwhat that coach is looking for
and how much they want tocommunicate with them and what
they need to see from them andall of that.
I think that that's, that'sreally critical.
(12:28):
And establishing those'causeI'll, I'm gonna recruit kids
ultimately at the end of the daythat I want to hang around with.
Like, I'm not they're peoplethat I see and I'm like, okay,
that's not someone that's gonnafit in for me.
I don't necessarily want tocoach that kid based on their
behavior or how they're carryingthemselves or whatever it is.
Or their attitude.
So I wanna be ultimately aroundpeople that I think are really
fun.
So sometimes somebody that Iestablish a relationship with
(12:50):
early and I click with and thinkis really funny and great and
fun to coach'cause I've coached'em at a camp or whatever.
They might be a little lessathletically than, than somebody
else.
But because of that relationshipI just want to coach that kid.
And so I'm gonna, I'm gonna,pursue that.
Yeah, you're gonna help themeverywhere you can to help them
get prepared to get through thatadmissions process, but also
(13:12):
help them be prepared if theywant to come play for you.
Yeah, exactly.
Start building that relationshipearly.
I love that.
Exactly.
All right, I'm gonna ask you aquestion and I know your
admissions director and yourfinancial aid director are
probably gonna be holding theirbreath to hear what your answer
is.
'cause I know how this works.
And I know better to ask it, butI'm gonna ask it anyways'cause I
know a thousand families wouldask me to ask it.
(13:35):
What are the bare bones for meto get in the door?
What?
What's that?
A-C-T-S-A-T score.
What's that?
GPA?
Yeah.
What where does my chance beginand end to get into MIT?
Yeah.
And I know it's a hard answer.
I know there's not that concreteanswer.
Yeah, there's no exact formula,right?
Yeah.
There isn't there.
There isn't.
But here's what they're lookingfor, right?
(13:56):
The, they're looking for peoplein the top 5% of their class
academically.
They're looking for people thatare taking the most rigorous
classes they can take in mathand science and getting A's in
those classes from, ninth gradeon basically.
And then, are they challengingthemselves with those classes?
So having a, an advanced math,like multi-variable calculus or
(14:18):
linear algebra is always gonnabe a help.
Or, oh, this kid took physics asa freshman, but oh wait, they're
taking AP physics C as a senior.
That's a big, that's a that's abig, that's a big help.
So things like that, thatthey're looking for.
And then scoring wise, the seven80 math and 35 math is what
they're looking for.
The, and can be maybe a littlelower than that, but everything
(14:38):
else has to be through the roof.
And then there, that gets you inthe conversation though, like
that's just part of it.
That gets you in theconversation of, okay, this
person will be able to handlewhat they're gonna see here.
And they're gonna be okay.
Now we want to bring in the mostcool, creative, diverse,
interesting people that aregonna make this a great campus
(14:59):
community in general.
Right?
And that's why here anyway, theydo like athletes because a
athletes do better thaneverybody else.
'cause they're already used tothat lifestyle.
Right?
They're being pulled in 10different directions at once in
high school and still excellingacademically.
So they know that they canhandle that when they're in
college.
'cause that's what college is.
And then they, and then athletesget involved in campus community
(15:21):
life.
So they like athletes in theprocess.
So that will be a little bit ofa help.
Those are the bare bones of it,and, but there's just no exact
formula for it, unfortunately.
Let's say I have all that and Iget a 1300 SAT 1300.
Yeah, no.
Okay.
(15:41):
You got, like I said, that seven80 and then that may, 700 plus
on, on the verbal that's whatthey're looking for.
1400 minimum.
No, I'd say 14.
1480 minimum.
1480, minimum.
7 47 47.
Seven.
700.
Seven 80.
700.
Seven 80.
Math has gotta be higher.
Yeah.
Math's gotta be around seven 80anymore.
(16:02):
Should I be, look, should I betalking to you?
If I wanna major in English?
Potentially, yeah.
I mean, MIT is like a very, oneof its best kept secrets is
humanities or like one of thebest in the world as well.
You can do that, but you'vegotta understand that, hey,
you're still gonna have to takeall of these core classes in
physics and calculus andeverything else.
You can't just skip that.
(16:22):
Okay.
You're gonna have to take thesecore classes and then you can
eng major in English and that'sfine.
And they don't care what youwanna major in when they're
looking at the admissionsprocess.
So they don't care.
Okay.
They don't care.
So if I wanna work at NASA and Iwanna be an astronaut and
astrophysics they don't careright now.
Right.
Okay.
Still comes back to the qualityof the person and the, and how
(16:43):
I'm challenging myself in my ownpersonal environment.
Right.
Am I in that 5%?
Am I doing, am I challengingevery aspect of that
environment?
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Love it.
Talk to me about roster size.
What's perfect roster size foryou?
16 to 18 based on mid-semesterillnesses.
Injuries, things like that.
(17:03):
That's kind of a sweet spot forme as as far as having a good
number and always having a goodnumber to be able to practice
and get after it with eachother, and having some depth, I
think is key.
And I think if you have theright team culture, you can
handle a bigger roster, andthat's fine.
And kids understand that as longas you're being transparent with
them and they know exactly wherethey're fitting in.
16 to 18 is basically threeteams.
(17:26):
Are, do you like the balance ofsaying, okay, I've got three
outsides, I've got three rightsides, I've got three setters.
Or do you like saying, I knowI'm probably not gonna pay more
in two setters, I'd rather havea couple extra hitters or an
extra middle.
Where are you at in that world?
Yeah.
I think pins are big and middlesare harder to find.
Yeah.
And so I think, if you can havethree or four good middles and
(17:46):
you can have four to six pins,or I guess six pins.
You're gonna be in a little bitbetter place.
Nine hitters at least.
Yeah, sure.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
Okay.
I think at this level for howlong, how many matches we're
playing, how many matches a weekwe're playing that best of five
on a tournament weekend whenyou're playing two matches in
the same day can be a little bitof a bear.
(18:08):
So being able to get people restand not overuse them, overuse
them too much during the lengthof the season can, can be
critical to your success beinghealthy at the end.
You've gotta have certaingrades, you gotta have certain
test scores.
You gotta like the kid, yougotta like their character.
They've gotta be creative,they've gotta be fun, they've
(18:29):
gotta be fit.
Your culture.
You have so many boxes you haveto check.
Yeah, they're real.
It's really hard to find allthose boxes and you've gotta
hammer.
At the pen or a hammer.
Your 6 1 6 2.
You've got such, you've got thehardest job, top three or four
in the country to do what youdo.
I'll say it.
If you won't say it, I'll sayit.
(18:50):
Okay.
What?
DSS and liberos are a little bitmore volume in that world.
Yes.
What are you looking for?
What do you look what are someof those criteria points for
that back row kid that gets youreally, really excited service,
(19:10):
Steve.
I.
Service receive, it's all aboutservice.
Receive at this level.
Yeah.
And being in system everybodycan defend pretty well.
I think if you've been playing along time and that's your role
as a ds you're pretty decent atdefense and we can teach you
more.
I think service receive and thenand then having a good court
presence I think is really big.
It's really what I, that'sreally what's what.
(19:31):
It turns me on, like when I'mwatching somebody has great
court presence, has a lot ofenergy is running around all
over the place back there andhigh fiving their teammates and
slapping'em on the back andbeing loud and then being really
consistent in service-y I thinkthat's really big.
So if somebody sends me film andthey're, they're passing it the
10 foot line consistently, I'mlike, well, if they're passing
(19:53):
there, if they can't handle theserves of a, 16, 17-year-old,
18-year-old, they're not gonnahandle the service of a 21, 20
2-year-old at our level.
So it's like service.
They're not putting it at thenet, right?
Yeah, they're not put, yeah.
It's gotta, that service receiveis the biggest thing for me.
Just a quick technical point, aperspective.
What's the footwork look like?
(20:14):
Are you looking for calm feet?
Are you looking for settling?
Are you looking for a kid thattheir shoulders are calm?
What are some of those thingsthat get you excited about that
service?
Receive.
I think it's like the, a calmand early platform.
Yeah.
I think that's the biggest thingfor me.
Nice, steady calm, but earlyplatform and just that nice
smooth movement that's just,nice and level.
(20:36):
Okay.
And reads well.
I love it.
I wanna play for you.
I'm 16 years old.
I wanna play for you.
I'm doing all the right things.
How do you want me to reach outto you to say, coach, I want to,
I wanna play for MIT, I wannaplay for you.
Yeah, I think it just startswith an introductory email,
right?
And making it easy, there's somany recruiting services and
everything else out there, andkids are going through
(20:58):
recruiting services and then I.
If you're gonna email a coach,email'em directly.
You go through the recruitingservices, the chain the email
chain starts over every timethat they do.
So if I'm looking back and Iwanna look back on our
conversation, I can't to remindmyself of whatever I think,
having that individual email, Ithink having it, it making it as
(21:19):
easy as possible for the coachto access the information that
you want me to have if I have tojump through several hoops and.
Get a, make an account somewhereand do all this to see your
film.
I'm not gonna do it.
I just don't have, we don't havethat kind of time.
Yeah.
So I think, a YouTube channel isgreat.
You can just upload it.
You have it, and you can takeownership of it and say, Hey, I
have a new, I have newhighlights from this tournament,
(21:42):
and here's the link.
And then I can just hit on that.
So I think having, so havingsome highlights and having some
academic information what yearyou are, what position you play.
I think is that gets get you,you want to make it so that we
wanna see you play live if wecan and continue that
conversation and transcripts.
Well, yeah, the academic side isbig for us.
(22:02):
Yes.
Obviously, yes.
The transcript is key.
'cause that's the next thing I'mgonna ask for anyway.
Yeah.
And what classes you're, you'retaking and things like that.
Yeah.
And then as.
Obvious as it may seem like whena coach emails you read the
email carefully and give themthe information they're asking
for.
It's amazing how many times I'llsend an email and I'll say,
please send me this, and this.
(22:23):
And then they send me only twoof those things and then I have
to come back and say, can youalso send me this?
So yes, make it.
Make it.
We're so busy and we have somany emails to work with.
And we don't have, a huge staff,so I think at the D three level.
So I think making it as easy andreally being accurate with what
you're doing and making sureyou're reading through emails
(22:45):
before you send them and makesure it's the right school name
and right coach's name and allof that, and make it personal.
If I get a thing that says, dearcoach, then I am that's coming
from a service or it's a blanketemail, like I want, if my name's
on it, that's okay.
I'm definitely gonna answer thatemail.
Love it coach.
Thank you so much for your time.
(23:05):
It's an honor talking to you.
Oh, my pleasure.
It's so impressive what you'vedone there.
I will scream it to the moon,how hard of a job you have and
to do thanks at the level you'vedone it year after year for it,
almost 30 years.
It's so impressive.
Thank you for the conversation.
Feel free to reach out anytime,just to talk volleyball or
whatever.
I may tick you up on that and ifI'm ever up in, in that area I'm
(23:27):
gonna call you and see if you'lllet me come watch a practice.
I'd love to learn.
That'd be great.
Love it.
Would love it thanks.
It was a pleasure.
Thanks again to Coach Paul Dillfor sharing his insight and
experience.
His perspective on recruitingstudent athletes who lead with
both intellect and integrity issomething every family should
hear.
If you have it yet, be sure tocheck out significant
(23:49):
recruiting, the playbook forprospective college athletes and
the Softball Recruits Journal.
Both available now on Amazon,and if you're looking for more
personalized guidance, you canschedule a free coaching or
recruiting session withme@coachmattrogers.com.
As always, keep showing up withpurpose, lead with integrity,
and pursue significance overstatus.
(24:12):
We'll see you next time.
If you're gonna email a coach,email'em directly.
(00:02):
You go through the recruitingservices, the email chain starts
over every time that they do.
So if I'm looking back and Iwanna look back on our
conversation, I can't to remindmyself of whatever I think,
having that individual email,making it as easy as possible
for the coach to access theinformation that you want me to
have if I have to jump throughseveral hoops and.
(00:23):
Make an account somewhere and doall this to see your film.
I'm not gonna do it.
Welcome back to SignificantRecruiting.
I'm Coach Matt Rogers.
Before we jump into today'sepisode, I wanna say a huge
thank you, the Softball RecruitsJournal.
Just hit number one this weekendon Amazon's new release list.
(00:46):
In three different categories.
I'm incredibly grateful for thesupport and I truly hope the
tools inside like the WeeklyReflections, the Coach
communication templates and theVisit Prep guides are helping
families take real ownership oftheir recruiting journey.
So thank you to everyone.
If you haven't checked it outyet, head over to coach matt
(01:06):
rogers.com or to amazon.comdirectly for more details and
free resources for both athletesand parents.
Now today's guest is one of themost respected coaches in
college volleyball.
Coach Paul Dill from MIT.
We had a powerful conversationon Friday about coaching and
leadership, and that naturallyled us into this follow-up
(01:28):
conversation about recruiting,especially what does it take to
identify and develop elitestudent athletes in one of the
most competitive academicenvironments in the country?
Let's dive in.
Here's my conversation withCoach Paul Dill.
there's so many families that Italk to that their dream for
their kid is an MIT, to go toschool in your league.
(01:50):
'cause there's so many greatschools there.
Are there things that they needto understand about how you need
to recruit as the co head coachat MIT?
Well, I think, mi t's prettyunique.
I think maybe Caltech would bethe only other place that
doesn't have, we don't have anykind of early reads.
(02:10):
We don't have any, athleticslots pre-reads, anything like
that.
They've gotta get in on our, ontheir own.
We can recommend we can.
Support people, but there's noguarantees with that.
And we literally find out thesame day that they do if they've
gotten in.
Right.
But what they need to know is,especially for any kind of high
academic school, is.
(02:33):
They need to get in that processa little bit earlier so they
understand what, how to setthemselves up to be as
competitive an applicant aspossible based on the
requirements of the school.
For us, if they're not takingthe right classes and don't have
the right classes by the timethey graduate.
There's nothing we can do forthem.
(02:54):
They're just not gonna get in,they're not gonna be a
competitive applicant.
So setting themselves up to betaking the right kind of math
and science classes, in ourcase, in other schools, and
might be other classes, and whatkind of grades are gonna be
required in those classes to bea competitive applicant is
information that they kind ofneed to know as early as
possible in the process.
(03:15):
Because kids come to me a littlebit later in the process and
it's too late.
They, they, they haven't takenthe right classes or they've had
a, a couple of lower gradesthat's just not gonna, it's just
not gonna cut it for the, thecom the 4% admit rate that MIT
has.
Understanding whatever schoolsyou might be interested in,
especially the high academicones, is what is it that I need
to do?
To set myself up to be acompetitive applicant, whether
(03:37):
it's the classes you're taking,the grades that you have, the
test scores that you need, andthen setting yourself up to do
those things.
Okay.
Well, we use, we'll use mydaughter as a hypothetical.
We come to visit, we set up avisit with you after her junior
year, and we asked.
Coach, what's more important toget into MIT?
(03:57):
Is it honors, is it ap, is itib?
What, where do we need to be?
What kind of classes do we needto be taking?
Right.
And the level and the, to justto have a shot at getting, yeah.
So what's the answer to that?
Yeah.
So for MIT, the admissionsprocess is about they, they
wanna find a good fit for MITand what makes a good fit for
MIT?
What kind of kid is a is an MITkid, well, a kid that's an MIT
(04:20):
kid.
Wants to be taking the highestlevel math and science classes
they can possibly take at theirschool.
Right.
Does it matter if it's ap?
If it's calculus, it matters.
Yeah.
Okay.
Because it, because what?
What?
Because what MIT will see is,okay, this, these are the
classes that this person hastaken.
Here are the classes that theschool offers.
(04:42):
Now, if there are more advancedclasses the school offers that
the kid has not taken, thentheir feeling is, well, this
person doesn't wanna challengethemselves.
They're not challengingthemselves enough.
And so, a kid that takes, calcbc let's say they're on a really
early track and they take CalcBC as a junior, and then they're
signed up to take AP stats as asenior.
(05:05):
That's a red flag at a placelike MIT because they're, they'd
be they're thinking would be,well, this kid should be taking
multi-variable calculus orlinear algebra, or something
more advanced.
And if they can't take it attheir school, maybe they should
try to take it at, a communitycollege or something like that.
Just that's how competitive itis to get in and what you're
facing as far as what everybodyelse has.
Now, if your school doesn'toffer Calc BC and the farthest
(05:27):
you can go is calc ab, then MITtakes that into consideration
for sure.
Okay.
It's about what are the highestlevel classes the school offers,
and are you taking them and areyou challenging yourself?
And are you getting A's in thoseclasses?
Yeah.
'cause because I go back to howI grew up.
I grew up in a farm communitywith 2000 people.
And we didn't have ap, we didn'thave International
(05:48):
Baccalaureate, we didn't have,right.
It's all, yeah.
It's all about what the schooloffers.
Yeah.
Are you taking the highest levelthat your school offers?
But I love the advice of, Hey,your school has a limit, but you
really want this and you'regonna challenge yourself.
Is there a local junior collegethat offers this level of
physics or this level of Right.
Of calculus, right.
So you can show Yeah.
I'm pushing myself to the nextlevel.
(06:09):
That's important.
Yeah.
Right.
Okay.
No, for sure.
All right.
I go round and round withfamilies on this and I never try
and tell a family what to do,but I try and give them the
option.
So I, MIT is very much on thefurthest end of the spectrum
here in terms of the places theycan get into.
(06:30):
Does MIT admissions look at thatcumulative GPA or the weighted
GPA and if that weighted GPA isa 4.1 and it could be a 4.5, can
that negatively affect theiradmissions?
I think it can potentially.
I think it's.
It's not too much about theweighted so much.
(06:52):
I think it's about, the gradesthat they're getting in those
classes overall.
And and again, are theychallenging themselves?
Right.
I think that's kind of thebiggest thing.
Okay.
Yeah, I, that's kind of the wayI preach it.
If you're taking the highestlevel class you can and you're
getting an A where you don'tneed that extra bump, maybe you
got a b plus and that B plus gotyou to an a.
(07:12):
With the weighted right.
That can sometimes work againstyou, I would imagine.
Yeah, a little bit, yeah.
All right.
Let's talk about A-C-T-S-A-T.
Sure.
I preach to parents they shouldbe taking both because of the
learning style in both.
Let your kid figure out thelearning style they have, take
(07:32):
both, whichever one they reallyfeel most comfortable with.
Take that 1, 3, 2, 3, 4 times.
Right.
Is that a.
A piece of advice for a kidthat's looking to get into MIT
or Caltech or a school likethat.
Alright.
Yeah, I think, I think taking ita little bit early so you gotta
get a sense of where you arewith it.
(07:54):
Yes.
And so, you know what you needto kind of work on a little bit.
Sophomore year, freshman yearnot freshman, I think.
I think freshman year is tooearly.
You're just not gonna beprepared, especially math wise
'cause you just haven't seen thestuff yet.
I think taking it I.
After sophomore year, I think ispretty big.
So you get a sense of where youare and then what you need to
work on so that when you'retaking it during your junior
(08:14):
year, you're you're more bebetter prepared.
Yeah.
I think that that's, that's key.
I think taking both is a goodidea to see again, which is
gonna be better for you and not,and I'd say don't sub
automatically submit any scoresanywhere.
Just have the scores and thenyou can submit them if you want
later.
Yeah you can submit your bestscore later, right?
Exactly.
(08:34):
Or score later, right?
Yeah, exactly.
You can super score and youYeah, exactly.
But if you're, if you maybedon't test as well on one, let's
say but you test a lot better onthe other, then you might not
wanna submit that first one atall and just go with the a CT
'cause that was better.
Or the SAT if that one wasbetter.
Uhhuh and your school will takewhat you either, either test
Yeah, it takes either test andthere's certain kind of, scores
(08:57):
they're looking for based on.
You know, especially the mathpiece is and that's kind of the
indicator to them of, oh, thisperson will be able to handle
the rigors of the curriculum.
They're going to, the rigors inthe curriculum that they're
gonna see math wise.
Yeah.
You know, scoring lower thanthat.
They probably won't do well atMIT.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
Let's get into volleyball.
'cause I know this is where youlive.
(09:17):
My, my former assistants stillmake fun of me'cause I had a
board, everything was colorcoded.
Four years out, we were lookingat freshmen, and they were
moving the board and they,sophomore and junior.
At what age will you startlooking at a kid and put'em on a
list if you see'em going intosophomore year.
Really?
(09:37):
Like there's some kids thatreach out before that and we'll,
they're on our list.
We have'em, but that's not,we're not kind of looking at
them too much yet.
I think, sophomores we're, wewant to start the conversation
with sophomores about theacademic side of things, about,
hey.
This is what you need to do toset yourself up to be
competitive and then kind ofkeep our eye on them
(09:59):
athletically and see how theydevelop.
Yeah.
And if they're gonna be someonethat can help us then, hopefully
we've given them all theinformation and they set
themselves up academically thento be as strong candidate.
So I think it's that sophomoreyear and then really the junior
year is kind of critical as faras their grades and everything
else.
And then and where and seeingwhere they're developing
athletically.
And I imagine you're askingabout test scores junior year
(10:21):
too.
Have you taken a TSD?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Do you have an early score?
Do you Yeah, we gotta get, yeah,we're interested to see like if
we wanna get there.
The we're, as soon as we starttalking to'em, we're saying, get
us your transcript, wheneverthat is.
And then, okay, every semesterafterwards, give us your latest
transcript.
Give us your latest transcript.
(10:41):
'cause if somewhere along thelines they come back with a
transcript that the grades arereally low, it's, we can start
to say, okay, this is probablynot gonna be a good fit.
Yeah.
And realize that earlier in theprocess.
But if they're keeping theirgrades up and they're taking the
right classes then we're gonnabe on the right track.
For sure.
Yeah.
And then obviously the athleticpiece, seeing them play and
(11:02):
seeing'em at these high academiccamps or seeing them at
tournaments and getting film onthem is critical in the process
or that to see how they'redeveloping so that when it comes
time for us to make a finaldecision on who we wanna support
who we think is gonna be a goodfit, we have as much information
as possible.
It.
It drives me crazy when I'mtalking to a family and or I'm
(11:23):
speaking somewhere and a familywill go our coach told us they
would take care of it.
Our club coach said they'regonna take care of our
recruiting.
Our high school coach says Wedon't need to start this till
the end of junior, early, senioryear.
And I wanna pull my hair outbecause I want families to
understand how important is tobuild a relationship with some
college coaches as sophomores,as juniors.
(11:44):
Because now somebody that reallyunderstands recruiting, really
understands how hard it is toget in the door, can coach you a
little bit and guide you alittle bit.
Yeah.
Do you appreciate that when youget to get your hands on a
really good kid as a sophomoreto help'em coach through the
next two years?
Yeah, I think that's critical.
I think that's critical.
And that's because they need totake ownership of their own
(12:05):
journey, so to speak.
Because the parents really can'tdo it for them.
I mean, they can help.
Obviously, but they need to takeownership of it a little bit.
And they need to make sure thatthey are, they're communicating
with coaches and figuring outwhat that coach is looking for
and how much they want tocommunicate with them and what
they need to see from them andall of that.
I think that that's, that'sreally critical.
(12:28):
And establishing those'causeI'll, I'm gonna recruit kids
ultimately at the end of the daythat I want to hang around with.
Like, I'm not they're peoplethat I see and I'm like, okay,
that's not someone that's gonnafit in for me.
I don't necessarily want tocoach that kid based on their
behavior or how they're carryingthemselves or whatever it is.
Or their attitude.
So I wanna be ultimately aroundpeople that I think are really
fun.
So sometimes somebody that Iestablish a relationship with
(12:50):
early and I click with and thinkis really funny and great and
fun to coach'cause I've coached'em at a camp or whatever.
They might be a little lessathletically than, than somebody
else.
But because of that relationshipI just want to coach that kid.
And so I'm gonna, I'm gonna,pursue that.
Yeah, you're gonna help themeverywhere you can to help them
get prepared to get through thatadmissions process, but also
(13:12):
help them be prepared if theywant to come play for you.
Yeah, exactly.
Start building that relationshipearly.
I love that.
Exactly.
All right, I'm gonna ask you aquestion and I know your
admissions director and yourfinancial aid director are
probably gonna be holding theirbreath to hear what your answer
is.
'cause I know how this works.
And I know better to ask it, butI'm gonna ask it anyways'cause I
know a thousand families wouldask me to ask it.
(13:35):
What are the bare bones for meto get in the door?
What?
What's that?
A-C-T-S-A-T score.
What's that?
GPA?
Yeah.
What where does my chance beginand end to get into MIT?
Yeah.
And I know it's a hard answer.
I know there's not that concreteanswer.
Yeah, there's no exact formula,right?
Yeah.
There isn't there.
There isn't.
But here's what they're lookingfor, right?
(13:56):
The, they're looking for peoplein the top 5% of their class
academically.
They're looking for people thatare taking the most rigorous
classes they can take in mathand science and getting A's in
those classes from, ninth gradeon basically.
And then, are they challengingthemselves with those classes?
So having a, an advanced math,like multi-variable calculus or
(14:18):
linear algebra is always gonnabe a help.
Or, oh, this kid took physics asa freshman, but oh wait, they're
taking AP physics C as a senior.
That's a big, that's a that's abig, that's a big help.
So things like that, thatthey're looking for.
And then scoring wise, the seven80 math and 35 math is what
they're looking for.
The, and can be maybe a littlelower than that, but everything
(14:38):
else has to be through the roof.
And then there, that gets you inthe conversation though, like
that's just part of it.
That gets you in theconversation of, okay, this
person will be able to handlewhat they're gonna see here.
And they're gonna be okay.
Now we want to bring in the mostcool, creative, diverse,
interesting people that aregonna make this a great campus
(14:59):
community in general.
Right?
And that's why here anyway, theydo like athletes because a
athletes do better thaneverybody else.
'cause they're already used tothat lifestyle.
Right?
They're being pulled in 10different directions at once in
high school and still excellingacademically.
So they know that they canhandle that when they're in
college.
'cause that's what college is.
And then they, and then athletesget involved in campus community
(15:21):
life.
So they like athletes in theprocess.
So that will be a little bit ofa help.
Those are the bare bones of it,and, but there's just no exact
formula for it, unfortunately.
Let's say I have all that and Iget a 1300 SAT 1300.
Yeah, no.
Okay.
(15:41):
You got, like I said, that seven80 and then that may, 700 plus
on, on the verbal that's whatthey're looking for.
1400 minimum.
No, I'd say 14.
1480 minimum.
1480, minimum.
7 47 47.
Seven.
700.
Seven 80.
700.
Seven 80.
Math has gotta be higher.
Yeah.
Math's gotta be around seven 80anymore.
(16:02):
Should I be, look, should I betalking to you?
If I wanna major in English?
Potentially, yeah.
I mean, MIT is like a very, oneof its best kept secrets is
humanities or like one of thebest in the world as well.
You can do that, but you'vegotta understand that, hey,
you're still gonna have to takeall of these core classes in
physics and calculus andeverything else.
You can't just skip that.
(16:22):
Okay.
You're gonna have to take thesecore classes and then you can
eng major in English and that'sfine.
And they don't care what youwanna major in when they're
looking at the admissionsprocess.
So they don't care.
Okay.
They don't care.
So if I wanna work at NASA and Iwanna be an astronaut and
astrophysics they don't careright now.
Right.
Okay.
Still comes back to the qualityof the person and the, and how
(16:43):
I'm challenging myself in my ownpersonal environment.
Right.
Am I in that 5%?
Am I doing, am I challengingevery aspect of that
environment?
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Love it.
Talk to me about roster size.
What's perfect roster size foryou?
16 to 18 based on mid-semesterillnesses.
Injuries, things like that.
(17:03):
That's kind of a sweet spot forme as as far as having a good
number and always having a goodnumber to be able to practice
and get after it with eachother, and having some depth, I
think is key.
And I think if you have theright team culture, you can
handle a bigger roster, andthat's fine.
And kids understand that as longas you're being transparent with
them and they know exactly wherethey're fitting in.
16 to 18 is basically threeteams.
(17:26):
Are, do you like the balance ofsaying, okay, I've got three
outsides, I've got three rightsides, I've got three setters.
Or do you like saying, I knowI'm probably not gonna pay more
in two setters, I'd rather havea couple extra hitters or an
extra middle.
Where are you at in that world?
Yeah.
I think pins are big and middlesare harder to find.
Yeah.
And so I think, if you can havethree or four good middles and
(17:46):
you can have four to six pins,or I guess six pins.
You're gonna be in a little bitbetter place.
Nine hitters at least.
Yeah, sure.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
Okay.
I think at this level for howlong, how many matches we're
playing, how many matches a weekwe're playing that best of five
on a tournament weekend whenyou're playing two matches in
the same day can be a little bitof a bear.
(18:08):
So being able to get people restand not overuse them, overuse
them too much during the lengthof the season can, can be
critical to your success beinghealthy at the end.
You've gotta have certaingrades, you gotta have certain
test scores.
You gotta like the kid, yougotta like their character.
They've gotta be creative,they've gotta be fun, they've
(18:29):
gotta be fit.
Your culture.
You have so many boxes you haveto check.
Yeah, they're real.
It's really hard to find allthose boxes and you've gotta
hammer.
At the pen or a hammer.
Your 6 1 6 2.
You've got such, you've got thehardest job, top three or four
in the country to do what youdo.
I'll say it.
If you won't say it, I'll sayit.
(18:50):
Okay.
What?
DSS and liberos are a little bitmore volume in that world.
Yes.
What are you looking for?
What do you look what are someof those criteria points for
that back row kid that gets youreally, really excited service,
(19:10):
Steve.
I.
Service receive, it's all aboutservice.
Receive at this level.
Yeah.
And being in system everybodycan defend pretty well.
I think if you've been playing along time and that's your role
as a ds you're pretty decent atdefense and we can teach you
more.
I think service receive and thenand then having a good court
presence I think is really big.
It's really what I, that'sreally what's what.
(19:31):
It turns me on, like when I'mwatching somebody has great
court presence, has a lot ofenergy is running around all
over the place back there andhigh fiving their teammates and
slapping'em on the back andbeing loud and then being really
consistent in service-y I thinkthat's really big.
So if somebody sends me film andthey're, they're passing it the
10 foot line consistently, I'mlike, well, if they're passing
(19:53):
there, if they can't handle theserves of a, 16, 17-year-old,
18-year-old, they're not gonnahandle the service of a 21, 20
2-year-old at our level.
So it's like service.
They're not putting it at thenet, right?
Yeah, they're not put, yeah.
It's gotta, that service receiveis the biggest thing for me.
Just a quick technical point, aperspective.
What's the footwork look like?
(20:14):
Are you looking for calm feet?
Are you looking for settling?
Are you looking for a kid thattheir shoulders are calm?
What are some of those thingsthat get you excited about that
service?
Receive.
I think it's like the, a calmand early platform.
Yeah.
I think that's the biggest thingfor me.
Nice, steady calm, but earlyplatform and just that nice
smooth movement that's just,nice and level.
(20:36):
Okay.
And reads well.
I love it.
I wanna play for you.
I'm 16 years old.
I wanna play for you.
I'm doing all the right things.
How do you want me to reach outto you to say, coach, I want to,
I wanna play for MIT, I wannaplay for you.
Yeah, I think it just startswith an introductory email,
right?
And making it easy, there's somany recruiting services and
everything else out there, andkids are going through
(20:58):
recruiting services and then I.
If you're gonna email a coach,email'em directly.
You go through the recruitingservices, the chain the email
chain starts over every timethat they do.
So if I'm looking back and Iwanna look back on our
conversation, I can't to remindmyself of whatever I think,
having that individual email, Ithink having it, it making it as
(21:19):
easy as possible for the coachto access the information that
you want me to have if I have tojump through several hoops and.
Get a, make an account somewhereand do all this to see your
film.
I'm not gonna do it.
I just don't have, we don't havethat kind of time.
Yeah.
So I think, a YouTube channel isgreat.
You can just upload it.
You have it, and you can takeownership of it and say, Hey, I
have a new, I have newhighlights from this tournament,
(21:42):
and here's the link.
And then I can just hit on that.
So I think having, so havingsome highlights and having some
academic information what yearyou are, what position you play.
I think is that gets get you,you want to make it so that we
wanna see you play live if wecan and continue that
conversation and transcripts.
Well, yeah, the academic side isbig for us.
(22:02):
Yes.
Obviously, yes.
The transcript is key.
'cause that's the next thing I'mgonna ask for anyway.
Yeah.
And what classes you're, you'retaking and things like that.
Yeah.
And then as.
Obvious as it may seem like whena coach emails you read the
email carefully and give themthe information they're asking
for.
It's amazing how many times I'llsend an email and I'll say,
please send me this, and this.
(22:23):
And then they send me only twoof those things and then I have
to come back and say, can youalso send me this?
So yes, make it.
Make it.
We're so busy and we have somany emails to work with.
And we don't have, a huge staff,so I think at the D three level.
So I think making it as easy andreally being accurate with what
you're doing and making sureyou're reading through emails
(22:45):
before you send them and makesure it's the right school name
and right coach's name and allof that, and make it personal.
If I get a thing that says, dearcoach, then I am that's coming
from a service or it's a blanketemail, like I want, if my name's
on it, that's okay.
I'm definitely gonna answer thatemail.
Love it coach.
Thank you so much for your time.
(23:05):
It's an honor talking to you.
Oh, my pleasure.
It's so impressive what you'vedone there.
I will scream it to the moon,how hard of a job you have and
to do thanks at the level you'vedone it year after year for it,
almost 30 years.
It's so impressive.
Thank you for the conversation.
Feel free to reach out anytime,just to talk volleyball or
whatever.
I may tick you up on that and ifI'm ever up in, in that area I'm
(23:27):
gonna call you and see if you'lllet me come watch a practice.
I'd love to learn.
That'd be great.
Love it.
Would love it thanks.
It was a pleasure.
Thanks again to Coach Paul Dillfor sharing his insight and
experience.
His perspective on recruitingstudent athletes who lead with
both intellect and integrity issomething every family should
hear.
If you have it yet, be sure tocheck out significant
(23:49):
recruiting, the playbook forprospective college athletes and
the Softball Recruits Journal.
Both available now on Amazon,and if you're looking for more
personalized guidance, you canschedule a free coaching or
recruiting session withme@coachmattrogers.com.
As always, keep showing up withpurpose, lead with integrity,
and pursue significance overstatus.
(24:12):
We'll see you next time.
Popular Podcasts
Cold Case Files: Miami
Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides. Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.