June 30, 2025 • 35 mins
What College Coaches Are Really Looking For – A Recruiting Talk with Paul Svagdis of Westmont College
In this week’s Significant Recruiting episode, Matt Rogers is joined by Westmont College Head Baseball Coach Paul Svagdis, a veteran leader with over 850 career wins and nearly 30 years of experience across NCAA Division III, NAIA, and now Division II.
Coach Svagdis breaks down exactly what he looks for in a recruit—from mindset and resilience to how a player responds to adversity. He shares why Stephen Vogt, now the manager of the Cleveland Guardians, stands as a prime example of the kind of athlete he wants in his program.
You’ll also hear advice on how to stand out in the recruiting process, how coaches evaluate character, and the importance of humility, consistency, and leadership potential.
🎯 Whether you're a student-athlete, parent, or coach, this episode is packed with practical insight to help guide your recruiting journey.
📚 Ready to take control of your college recruitment?
Visit CoachMattRogers.com to get your copy of Significant Recruiting: The Playbook for Prospective College Athletes and the new Recruit’s Journal—your week-by-week guide to staying organized, confident, and college-ready.
Learn more and connect with Matt Rogers here: https://linktr.ee/coachmattrogers
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
someone said to me, how did youguys get over the hump and get
(00:03):
good?
How did you get players to come?
I said, I sat over and I lookedat'em on the other side of the
desk.
I said, I can guarantee you,based on the skillset I have in
this program, you will playright away.
And you and I, are gonna buildthis program and do something no
one's ever done here.
(00:26):
Welcome to significantRecruiting, the podcast that
helps student athletes andfamilies take control of the
college recruiting journey.
Today's guest is Paul Spadeshead baseball coach at Westmont
College, who brings nearly 30years of experience, over 850
career wins, and a proven trackrecord of developing elite
athletes on and off the field.
(00:46):
In this episode, we dig inexactly what Coach Faggy looks
for in a recruit and why if akid has quick hands.
He believes he can turn theminto a ballplayer.
Now he's from Boston, so ifyou're from the Boston area it's
not gonna hurt if you're fromBoston, let's put it that way.
Whether you're just startingyour recruitment or navigating
(01:09):
decision time, this episode isfull of valuable insight.
And before we dive in, don'tforget to subscribe and check
out all my tools, books, andfree
resources@coachmattrogers.com.
Alright, let's get started.
Here's my recruitingconversation with Coach Paul.
(01:30):
All right, coach, let's, let'sjump into some recruiting talk.
You've been doing this a longtime, so I'm sure you have a
system in place.
I'm seeing the board behind youa little bit.
I'm sure you got some recruitingstuff back there.
Talk about your structure ofrecruiting.
And how you use your staff andhow you guys meet and how you
(01:51):
discuss who you're going torecruit and why you're going to
recruit.
Yeah.
So that's evolved through theyears, of course.
With access to social media the,the access of the club
environment or personal coachestread driveline.
All those places have had areally positive impact on the
(02:12):
recruiting process in a lot ofways, but also allow and I also
think allow you to really, likestrategically go look at kids
that have specific skill setsthat you might be interested in.
Right.
So the, the club and the travelball have all come together and
they understand that theirbusiness model is to help these
(02:32):
kids get off to the next level.
So they're providing as muchinforma a lot more information
than we got 10, 15 years ago.
Right, right.
And especially data-driveninformation is huge with
pitching in a lot of ways.
So I think how we do it iswe're, I'm in like this staff
transition here at, uh,Westmont.
(02:52):
So what, how I will do it movingforward is I.
Depending on how many of, howmuch of my staff is back from
last year, we talk about, okay,here's who we have coming back.
How do we project them out towin a conference championship?
That's obviously goal one.
And you win in a conferencechampionship, you go to the
regional, and then we move onfrom there.
(03:13):
And then the next step fromthere would be, okay, we know
what it takes in some fashion tobe a conference.
Champion, but we want to be aregional champion, right?
We need to get to carry NorthCarolina.
What is the upgrades that wehave to have?
You know, is it, do we need ahigher level caliber pitcher?
Do we need more pop or thump?
(03:34):
Do we need to be more of anathletic team?
I don't want to chase my tail asa recruiting coach, like, oh,
well we didn't run last year, sonow we're gonna run this year.
And then I'm constantly flippingmy philosophy.
That can be, now I'm just, everyother year I'm doing something
different.
There's no continuity for thekids.
Yeah, right.
In terms of what you're tryingto build in them stylistically.
(03:56):
So I think that's where westart.
What do we have returning?
Can we project them out and thenwe start to fill in from there?
I have a preference.
It's a different world now withthe portal, and I'm getting
hammered right now withexcellent looking baseball
players that are in the portaland want to transfer.
And I, I signed 20 high schoolkids this year from Wow.
(04:20):
Yeah.
Oh, well we had, we had a seniorclass of 16 to 17 guys, so I.
You have to replace those guysin a lot of fashion.
Yeah.
And so I thought being a newcoach, I might lose some guys in
the transfer portal'cause theymight have not been happy with
their playing time or whatever.
And we haven't lost any, wehaven't lost any.
(04:40):
So they had a great experience.
They have great teammates.
We've lost a couple guys, butthey were, it was less of, I
think, the playing time issueand more of just the right fit
here.
Right.
At a place where you're paying,you're financing most of your
education as an athlete in a lotof ways, so did you help those
kids with that transition or didthey come to you and say, I'm,
this is what I'm gonna make?
(05:02):
They came to me.
Okay.
They came to me and so I, youknow.
I think, this is the world welive in.
I have some coaches that havetalked to me about like the
portal.
If you have an athlete thatwants to go on the portal, I'm
like, it's, there's no usefighting it now in my mind.
Yeah.
You gotta be in the guy's cornerand do the best you can to sell
(05:22):
'em on yr culture and thissituation's gonna be better for
you, I think.
Over the next couple years,we'll see whether that culture
allows us to keep more talent.
Yeah.
So I, I think that's, that'sgonna be an interesting one, but
we What do you like?
Go ahead.
Go ahead, coach.
No, you go.
You go.
What do you like to carry?
Oh.
(05:43):
Well, I like to carry 38 to 40guys, and I'm in the 50, I'm in
the 50 range.
Okay.
But we, that we were 54 guyslast year.
And because we didn't have anyreal guys going the portal and I
brought in the same amount ofseniors we're at that we're at
that we need to figure out I, Iwould like to right size without
(06:03):
cutting kids.
Yeah.
I'm with you.
All right.
So you are where you are withpost COVID, big class graduates.
Yeah.
Bring, bringing in a bunch ofhigh school kids.
You have to do what you have todo, you injuries, class time.
There's so many things that youhave to have a big roster to, to
get you through a long season,especially when you're playing
50 plus games.
(06:24):
Yeah.
And you need, and you need arms.
Yep.
And I'm assuming you're a 50 50,50 guy.
Half pitchers, half utility.
Yep.
Yep.
Exactly.
Carry three catchers, sometimesfour.
Probably four.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yep.
How do we keep, maybe this isthe wrong question, may, let me
rephrase it.
(06:45):
How do we make sure 20 guys, 18year olds are coming into the
program?
They're developing, they'reunderstanding the culture,
they're understanding what canbe here long-term, if they're
committed.
To being here for four yearsand, and growing with us coaches
and growing with the staff.
How do we create that?
(07:05):
Yeah.
So I think it starts I think Iinherited that culture here
where the play, the player, theculture of the seniors is
incredible here, and thatleadership like gets filtered
and being a part of the Westmontprogram is something that these
kids really, really enjoy.
They're treated well.
They treat each other well.
(07:26):
And so there that.
Kind of colloquial, we're afamily mentality.
These kids literally love beinga part of the Westmont program
because of how they treat eachother.
So I think you have to havegreat leadership with your
upperclassmen that they'retaking the younger kids under
their belt and letting themknow, Hey guys, I was there.
(07:47):
I was a part of the nationalChampionship team in 23 or 24,
whenever that was.
I think it was 23 and I got 25at bats that year.
The following year, I became astarter and I was an All
American.
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
And so, so the younger kids cansee like a history of
incredible, physically talentedkids that had to work their way
(08:11):
into the system.
Yeah.
So that there's that, and youneed the right players
emotionally that can filter thatinto the younger kids.
And then I think from a practicestandpoint we scrimmage a lot.
I tell the kids, even when wehave all these guys, you are
going to play baseball here andwe're going to, you're gonna get
your app bats.
It might not be against PointLoma and Cal Poly Pomona, but
(08:35):
every week you're gonna get fourto eight app bats.
As a guy that's not starting ata minimum, we scrim three days a
week right now with, because wehave the talent to do it.
And so, and then what I'll makesure I do is even though I think
those scrimmages help ourfrontline guys see more pitching
consistently,'cause the way theyset us up here is we play
(08:57):
Friday, Saturday, and then we'reoff basically in practicing.
Baseball's meant to be playedconsistently.
I think see, consistently, I'mconstantly feeding positive
feedback into our backups.
We won this weekend because wecrammed.
Wednesday, Thursday and you cameout and tried to compete and we
(09:19):
put the scoreboard on and thenthere's also moments where
pitchers, right, we'll havepitchers that aren't seeing the
field.
Aren't seeing the field.
And it'll be like a Wednesdayand I'll be like, Hey, I have
this one young man in particularas a freshman attached.
I'm like all the teams together.
I'm like, you just stackedanother day kid.
Like that was a greatperformance and it was against
(09:39):
awesome.
Varsity kids that are winning alot of baseball games.
And then what would happen isthere would be a moment where I
had an opportunity to get T in agame, but he earned that
opportunity.
Does that make sense?
Yes.
And he gets in the game and hesucceeds and all the guys see
it.
And then on Monday I'm like, Heyguys, do you remember?
It was like, it just didn'thappen.
(10:00):
'cause tach stacked one day, hestacked a month of pitching
performances through the monthof February.
Where he never got on the fieldand an opportunity presented
itself and that kid was preparedand then love it.
All of a sudden now attachbecomes a bullpen guy for us.
So I think you have to createopportunities for them to be
(10:21):
able to not just throw bullpens,throw against great hitters.
And they'll, then it makes myjob easier.
If they're getting smashed orthey're walking guys, we can
just have a good conversation,Hey, let's look at our, let's
look at the numbers.
Here's where you need to get to.
And they're smart enough kids toget that.
But I think if I'm just throwingBP every day and they're just
(10:41):
throwing bullpens, they can'tsee maybe what the coach sees in
their bullpen performance.
So they're, they're batting,everybody hits batting practice
well.
Yeah.
How are we doing when we'refacing 90 to 91?
Yeah.
I think that's how I've tried tostrategize, to keep the energy
level of the backups in the mix,right?
(11:05):
Where we can then watch video.
We have the six camera videosystem here and love it.
We're coaching'em up.
And then, uh, the last thingI'll say on this,'cause I, I do,
I had a young man that was asenior that I played in one
game.
Okay.
One game this year.
I decided to bring him to theregional with us'cause he was a
senior and we're taking BP onthe day before the regional.
(11:27):
And I know and he knows there'sno way I'm putting him in the
game this weekend.
And I was still coaching his BPup.
Not in a hard way, like you'renot performing, but it w there
was a lot of knocks with, Heyman, do you see how you stayed
inside that ball?
Well, could you feel it off thebat?
Because I tell them, I'mpsychologically committing to
(11:47):
your development until you're nolonger wearing one of our
uniforms.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
And I was able to pat him on theback end.
His game day was BP in theregional.
Yeah.
You know, or infield, outfield,you know?
Yeah.
So you just have to work harderto keep them more engaged.
I'm gonna speak to the parents,the moms and dads and the high
school coaches listening tothis.
(12:08):
'cause it's so valuable.
'cause I, I deal so much withrecruiting now.
I'm helping so many kids get tocollege and I, I'm telling them,
you have to listen.
You.
It's not just about, Hey coach,do you like me?
And I like you?
You have to listen.
There's so many great coaches inthe country, but there's so few
(12:28):
that are constantly teaching.
Like you, you got 50 plus kidsand I bet there's not a kid that
walks off your field after anypractice that didn't say.
Coach.
Coach didn't make any commentsto me.
Coach didn't make any contactwith me.
It's energy.
If you're a coach, it doesn'tmatter if you're 55.
It doesn't matter if you're 25.
You have to give that energy toyour kids.
(12:49):
And they have to know thatyou're caring about them every
single day or it's real easy togo the coach, forget about me,
am I not a part of this?
Yeah.
And that, that becomes a cancerfor three other kids that aren't
playing with.
Absolutely.
100%.
And, and going back to usfailing as younger coaches.
Yeah.
I failed at that consistently inmy career, you know?
Yeah.
So all the players, if I had anyof my players, from 20 years
(13:12):
ago.
Or even 10 years ago saying,Hey, who, what's Fag is talking
about?
He never engaged with me on thatlevel.
I'm like, yeah, I learned fromthat failure.
Yeah.
My job I take, that was wrong ofme not to engage with you.
If you have a uniform on, andI'm telling you that's
important, I gotta engage withyou.
Yeah.
Does that make sense?
And the, and there's always thatkid that's having a really bad
(13:34):
day that's just not engaged.
You know, they're not talking,they're not, they're their
head's down.
They're, you know, they're goingthrough the motions.
And it's our responsibility ascoaches to go, what's up with
you?
What, where's the eye contacttoday?
Right?
What's going on?
I'm fine coach.
No, you're not Fine.
We don't have to talk to aboutit right now, but you're not
(13:55):
going to bed and I'm not goingto bed until we talk about it,
right?
Yep yep.
It's absolutely, it's, it's apart of who we are as coaches,
and if we're not playing thatrole, we're failing the kids.
So I love that about you and Ilove the energy and your
commitment to that because I hada, one of my kids called me last
night, she called in tears.
They had a high school practice.
(14:16):
Not one coach talked to her.
The coach.
Yeah.
Brought every kid to anindividual meeting and Hey, come
with me.
And I'm just like, I wannastrangle that coach.
Yeah.
You're giving that kid nothing.
You're giving him one, oneavenue to walk out that door and
it's not a good one.
Even if I chewed on your butttoday and'cause you didn't work
hard or you didn't run out of apopup, it's'cause I cared about
(14:38):
you and you know it, you know, II didn't give up on you.
Right.
Yes.
Yep.
I love that.
Yeah.
All right.
Talk to me about your recruitingboard.
You guys have your systems inplace.
You know what you need, you knowwhat you need for next year in
two years.
What does that recruiting boardlook like?
When you look at your 20 sixes,do you got a hundred kids?
(14:58):
Do you have a 200 kids?
Do you have 30 at each position?
You know, you gotta bring in?
What does that look like?
I feel like because our numbersare so big, and I brought in
such a big class this year ingeneral, it's gonna be a smaller
pool of guys.
Yeah, so, but in general, Iwould say like.
Generally, if I'm thinking abouta recruiting process and if I
(15:20):
wanted to be, you asked what'smy ideal number?
I think I said like 38 athletes,right?
Yeah.
So that's, what's that likemaybe nine, eight to 10 guys a
year that I'm really sitting on.
Yeah.
In order to get to eight to 10,I'm probably at three guys,
three to four top guys perpositional group that I'm
(15:40):
looking to recruit.
So, you know, a lot of coachesdo this in baseball and I've
started to do it as of late.
You're gonna recruit short stops'cause you can always move them
to center field if they run wellor third base or second base.
Yep.
Yep.
You know, so those guys, you'regonna, you're gonna need
multiple middle infielders thatyou like athletically.
You always going back to, youasked how many catchers I would
(16:02):
like a catcher in each class.
Yeah, me too.
So we're, we look at the boardand we're like, okay, we might
need two catchers this year.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
So then maybe one's a freshman,but one's a sophomore portal guy
to create that gap betweensenior, junior, sophomore,
freshman.
(16:23):
We'd like to develop'em.
'cause now with the portal, Ihave the luxury to say, Hey, I
actually need a senior catcher.
Maybe that's what we need to siton this year in June or July and
August.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
And then outfield, we'llprobably, if I'm looking, I.
For like a couple.
It depends.
If I'm looking for a centerfielder, I think the speed
(16:45):
component comes into it justlike that eighties and nineties
model.
Yeah.
Um, if it's a corner outfield,I'm looking for probably a, a
little more of a thump guy.
Yep.
That I think can slug prettywell.
So if I'm looking to bring intwo of those corner outfielders,
I'm probably jumping on aboutsix of'em, that I narrow a pool
down to six.
(17:06):
Okay.
Does that make sense?
Would that, would, you guysmight look at 50 to a hundred of
those kids to get it down tothat six?
Yeah, I would probably say that.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't even know whatthe number is.
'cause every day I'm lookingright.
Yeah.
It never ends.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
So, and now you can look onTwitter, so everybody's throwing
out their profile, right?
Yeah.
So I could go, Hey man, I'll letme watch his swing on video.
(17:30):
And then I'm like, Ooh, I likethat swing.
Let me look at his numbers.
Yeah.
And going back to our processwith my recruiting coordinator,
I'll say, Hey, can you reach outto his coaches?
Can you find out what hischaracters like?
And if they like him and whathave they seen?
Yeah.
And then, then it will come downto now we'll go watch them play.
Now you wanna see'em live Uhhuh?
(17:51):
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
At what point were you invitethat kid and their parents to
campus?
If I, if we'll invite'em up tocampus if I feel like they're a
legitimate prospect for us.
Okay.
Is that a camp invite for you oris that We'll invite a visit
first.
We'll invite everybody to camps.
We've, camps have been a greatasset for us.
(18:15):
Yeah.
'cause there'll be kids at campthat show up at camp.
'cause we have a mass database.
Right, right.
Because when I get off the,podcasts today, I'll, I'll look
at my email.
I have 15 emails from probably15 good baseball players with
video, and I kind of gotta pourthrough quickly and then I'll
send'em a questionnaire.
They're in our database, they'reall gonna get invited to our
(18:37):
event.
The guys that show up to ourevent, and then their numbers
are good.
We're gonna jump on'em rightaway.
'cause they showed an interestin our school.
And I like them.
So now we're, we almost got thehook in.
We've almost set the hook.
So those ID camps are huge.
I think we've got well andincredible.
And they're doing, they're doingso much of the work for you.
(18:57):
You don't have to convince'em tolook at your school.
They're already excited aboutWestmont.
'cause they're showing up.
They're already excited aboutyou.
Right.
And you get, they're coming toyou to see, you get to see'em
play, live and work with'em.
Exactly.
I love that.
And you can manipulate theprocess.
So if I go down to, I, I wentdown to modern day in the spring
looking at a guy, and let's sayhe gets up maybe twice, maybe
(19:19):
three times seven in a highschool game.
And he walks twice.
He walks.
Great.
But I need to, I need to see himswing the bat.
Yeah.
And he is playing shortstop andhe got one play and it, his
routine.
Yeah.
Whoa.
Like, man, I'd love to have youon campus and work you to a
right.
Work you to your left time, youin a 60, take bp so I see your
(19:39):
hands, and then give you fourlive at bats against a pitcher.
And when you walk, I go, Hey,stay up again.
Yeah.
So I see you swing.
Yeah.
So it's, it's such an advantagefor us as coaches.
I love that.
Yeah.
All right.
I'm gonna speak to your, yourheartstrings a little bit here.
Sure.
I'm a 16-year-old in Boston.
Yeah.
I'm 3000 miles away.
(20:02):
Yep.
You're probably not coming tosee me play live.
Correct.
What do I gotta do to get yourattention?
'cause I wanna play at Westmont.
I wanna play for you, but I'm3000 miles away.
Do I have to spend a grand toget to your camp and get a hotel
room and get my dad there andmom there and rental car?
No.
Depending video's not ideal.
(20:26):
But it's.
I'll use this as an example.
I, I saw a vote on three swingson a video baseball factory, and
this was when we had the phoneson our desk where you pick it up
like this and dial and, and I, Isaw three swings.
'cause it was a baseball CD rom.
Yeah.
Yeah, I remember.
Yeah.
Hey man, have you been offeredyet?
(20:46):
And he's like, no.
And I go, okay, I'm offering youa scholarship right now.
And I talked to him about AUSAand his brother.
Yeah, right there.
Thanks.
I was like, his, his handslooked lightning fast and, um.
And then another guy Kirk Neen,who played seven years in the
bigs and played for me at Azusaand took over for me.
(21:06):
He's the head coach at a PU now,Kirk.
We watched him on video.
I was like, dang, I, that guy'sgot good ha that guy's got fast
hands.
So we said, Hey, come on.
He's a Colorado kid.
Come out and visit.
He came out and visit, which is,he had to spend a little money
on that.
We first time in SouthernCalifornia, it rained for three
days.
We couldn't get him outside.
(21:27):
Oh.
So I had to offer him based onthe video.
So two video guys.
I offered both Big leaguers, soI'm like, maybe I'm okay on
video.
There was something there.
Yeah, maybe I'm all right.
Yeah, so, so I would say for theBoston Kid video, and then I'll
probably come out and see you.
'cause then it's, it's an excusefor me to go to Fenway Park and,
uh, yeah.
Visit my friends.
But absolutely, I would sayvideo if, if there's some,
(21:50):
coaches, Rex Travel Ball.
We try to go to as many eventsas we can.
Some of these guys, the EastCoast kids go down to Georgia a
lot, right?
Yeah.
To East Bob and stuff.
So what I would do, this is thenice part about being in a small
world, if I'm not gonna gothere,'cause it's not super
beneficial for me to go toGeorgia to think I'm gonna get a
(22:11):
kid from the East Coast toWestmont.
I'm gonna stay in Arizona,California for the most part.
Yeah, you gotta control yourbudget.
Yeah, exactly.
But if a kid really loves us.
Like, I have enough colleaguesand friends that I've been
coaching with through the yearsthat will be there and probably
be able to see that kid.
So you're just, you are doingyour own research as a coach
(22:33):
because that young man loves theschool.
Absolutely.
I.
Absolutely real quick about filmand if for any Boston kids that
are out there, I love Bostonguys, so send your Yeah,
absolutely.
Especially, especially if you'reyour Red Sox fan.
Ruin Celtics.
Pats quick thoughts on Raffidevs he's gonna do well with the
(22:53):
Giants.
I think it was a tough situationthat probably wasn't handled
well emotionally right out ofthe gate.
Now that I have, you know, guysthat have been up in the big
league level and I've heardtheir stories about front
office, and now I have someonein the front office or
managerial, right?
Yeah.
You kind of go, man, maybe Ibetter hold out judgment on how
(23:14):
guys have handled these things.
Yeah.
Does that make sense?
Yes.
It just breaks my heart though,when I want a ball player.
I want a guy that says, put mewherever you need me, coach you,
me, a catch I've never caughtbefore, but put the gear on.
I'll, if we need a catcher, I'llcatch right.
Any and, and$300 million.
$300 million go play first base.
If you want to know my personalopinion based on being a Red Sox
(23:36):
fan, I'm pissed at the frontoffice that they didn't resign
Mookie.
Oh, yeah.
The reason why they didn'tresign Mookie is because they
knew they had devs coming up andthey were gonna pay for him.
Yeah.
And I'm like, okay, that's a bigblunder because Mookie's one of
the most well respected.
People in the game of baseballand you passed up on giving him
(23:58):
that max contract.
Man, that's.
That's bad, tough business.
You know, I, I wasn't excitedabout that.
There's, there's a, that's myBoston side.
Yeah.
There's a pretty good All-starteam over the last seven years
that have left Boston.
Pitchers and, you know, you canget into the weeds there.
100%.
Yeah.
Well, so what's going onculturally?
(24:19):
Exactly.
Sorry to get off anybody that'slistening, that's not a, major
league baseball fan, but Iwanted to have that conversation
too.
All right, coach, I, I'm gonnalet you go.
You've been great, but I, I wantyou to give one piece of advice
to families that are goingthrough the recruiting process.
What do you want them to knowthat can make it healthy for
(24:39):
them to get, help their son getto that next level, wherever
that school may be?
I, again, I do like, I, I wouldsay put if you have the
resources or you have to figureout how you're gonna spend your
resources.
Find the right, find matches atdifferent levels.
(25:00):
'cause we all wanna playdivision one baseball.
I 100% on board with that.
But find a school that matches acouple, division three, a couple
ai, a couple D two, and thenyour D ones.
Does that make sense?
Yep.
And put yourself in situationswhere those coaches at those
institutions will be there.
Yeah.
As simple as that.
(25:20):
So if that's coming to a camp,come to a camp.
If that's doing a multi camp, ifyou're an academic guy, this is
a super expensive camp but forkids that actually have the
money to do it.
But Show Ball is a big academiccamp where all the Ivy League
guys are.
Yep.
But that a lot of, I imagine thenew MAT coaches go to those as
(25:41):
well.
They do, yeah.
Yeah.
And so like spread yourself outto these areas.
Where those coaches are gonna beon the field.
Yeah.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
I think that's absolutely.
And they get to interact withyou personally.
And, and, um, and then even likeI told my son who played high
school baseball, I'm like, Heyman, there's always gonna be a
(26:01):
place for you to play baseball.
Yep.
Okay.
But you have to decide is thatspot location worth what you
might be sacrificing in terms ofyour major.
Your desire to be in a certainarea of the country.
Yeah.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
And, um, playing time rightaway.
Playing time right away, allthose things.
(26:21):
And, uh, I think finding theright institution is the right
start.
I don't wanna overwhelm you andI don't want you to have more on
your plate than you guys alreadyhave.
But if a kid just wants anevaluation,'cause they don't
know where they belong, theydon't know where they fit.
Is your staff comfortablelooking at a film for three
(26:42):
minutes and going, Hey, this iswhere I see you.
You're not a great fit for us,but you know, this is where I
think you could play.
Yeah.
I always get nervous doing that'cause I feel like they're gonna
end up in the league and thencrushing us.
I had a guy I, I had a guy atPomona.
I cut.
(27:03):
This is why I stopped cutting.
I, I, I kid you not, I cut andOh, he didn't go play for bird?
No, he went and played atClaremont McKenna.
Oh, Roddy Cart Street.
No.
And and I totally, it was all mebeing a young coach and a man
just idiot.
Yep.
And he goes, and sure enoughhe's playing against us and he's
like in a three game set.
(27:25):
He probably had 10 hits and, andI'm 25, 26 years old.
And he'd bang his, his eighthhit and he'd point at me in the
dugout like, Hey man, you letlike all in my face.
So here's what's great aboutlife.
Here's what's great about life.
He's a great kid and he wasprobably a really good player
and I was just 26 years old,made the wrong call, right?
(27:48):
One of, one of my Pomona Pitzerkids is a lawyer now in LA and
he goes, Hey, guess who I'm goodfriends with?
And it was this young man.
Okay.
And I go, no way.
And I'm like, and he had aSpanky story.
Yeah.
And I go, you gonna apologizefor him?
Okay.
Apologize to him for me.
Right.
I'm like 50 now.
(28:08):
I totally messed that up.
Like, and he, he connected mewith him via.
Text.
Right.
And his son plays I, I thinkfreshman baseball or he is got
little kids and we're all gonnaconnect at some point and get
together.
That's great.
But he's older now and he sawthe bigger picture and he had a
great experience at Claremont.
But I have a hard time probablydoing that because I think a
(28:29):
kid, for me to say your divisionthree player and not a D two
player, I don't know if I cansay that or not'cause there's
plenty of guys playing for burnsover burn.
That could start for me.
Yeah.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, absolutely.
And it, I think it's in baseballthan more than any other sport.
Right?
(28:49):
I don't think a di I think 99%of the volleyball players that
play division three, theycouldn't even hold the a minute
on the court for division one.
That's right.
Basketball, there's so few kidsthat play division three
basketball that can playdivision two, let alone division
one.
But I think baseball, we'reseeing more and more of it.
Where there's just a, it's justabout the evaluation of that,
(29:11):
that coach, correct.
Who was the kid?
I don't follow division one, butmy son was telling me the short
stop from, uh, Arkansas.
Yeah, right.
Was he a Sac State kid?
I, I think so.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So here's my question.
He was just named the, like theSpikes Award winner.
The best player in collegebaseball hit 20 something jacks.
Okay.
So Sac State was the only guy,the only coach that identified
(29:34):
that kid.
So that goes back to we miss andmisidentify kids so much in the
game of baseball.
Yeah.
And I think it would be hard forme to sit back and go, Hey, this
would be a good spot for you.
Find here.
Here's the advice I would tellguys.
Hey man, if find the school thatfits your style of play.
Yes.
If you a burner and a hit foraverage guy like going back to
(29:57):
you, you must know ScottWinterburn at Laverne.
Yep.
Yeah.
Bene are close.
Yeah.
So they do an incredible, youcan't strike'em out.
They know how to hit the ballthe other way.
They know how to execute andthey know how to play great
baseball, great style ofbaseball.
Yep.
So if my son were not a six twoplotter with his feet, but had
(30:19):
good feet, could turn a doubleplay and had back control, I'd
be like, you need to go play forScott Winterburn.
Yeah.
Because you're gonna win gamesand you're gonna be highly
successful.
Because of the style of playCoach Winterburn has with his
athletes.
Yeah.
Incredible.
And then I bet you Scott wouldsay,'cause he said this about my
Tufts team we had some guys hitsome home runs in a series with
(30:43):
them and they were, ranked inthe top whatever, 10 in the
country.
'cause they're awesome.
And he, he probably rememberedmy Azusa teams, which were like
that.
Yeah.
And he'd be like, dang, you guysare aggressive.
So at the plate.
We're gonna swing and miss morethan Scott's teams.
Yeah.
So I would say too, if you'relike that athlete, go do your
(31:04):
research.
Find out what the laverne's looklike, what the pomona's look
like.
Redlands.
'cause we all coach similarly insome ways.
In some ways we have differentstylistic approaches.
Yeah.
And it's, for me, it's teachingkids.
You gotta look everywhere.
Yes.
You know, just because thisschool has a name or this school
has a reputation, man.
(31:25):
It might be a brand new coachcoming in and this guy's great
and he's a great fit for you.
So go look.
You know, yes.
Everybody's got a cafeteria,everybody's got dorm rooms,
everybody's got a library.
Find a coach, find anenvironment, find a culture that
you fit and you're gonna growthere.
100%.
And being, going back to Pomonaeight and 32, they hadn't had
winning three winning seasons inschool history.
(31:48):
Yeah.
And I got there in 96.
Yeah.
So someone said to me, how didyou guys get over the hump and
get good?
Like, how did you get players tocome?
I said, I, I, I sat over and Ilooked at'em on the other side
of the desk.
I said, I can guarantee you,based on the skillset I have in
this program, you will playright away.
And you and I, I.
Are gonna build this program anddo something no one's ever done
(32:10):
here.
Yep.
And now if you are, if that ifthere's a kid on listening to
this right now and goes, thatfires me up.
Find a program with a youngcoach that's trying to turn
something around.
Yeah.
Because you can, because it'sgonna be hard.
Yeah.
And you're gonna feel thedaggers from former like players
and current guys in the program.
But if you want that experience,those guys still, we get
(32:32):
together because they went fromeight and 32 to 36 and seven.
Yep.
And they saw how hard it was todo that, and they attribute a
lot of their success in theirpersonal life now that they're
45 to the things they had to gothrough in that progress of
turning a program around.
Yep.
So that's exciting stuff andthere's plenty of great coaches
out there that are doing greatthings with teams that, that
(32:54):
need to turn things around.
I think of Tyler Lato atPepperdine, who I took over for.
They're in this process of, he'strying to flip the script over
there right now.
What an exciting time if youwere one of those guys.
Absolutely.
And they, they have anincredible history of course,
but it'd be pretty cool to be apart of that run that Tyler's
(33:14):
gonna bring there to put'em backwhere they used to be.
Yeah.
Too, too many kids go chasing alegacy instead of saying, I'm
gonna go build one.
Yeah, exactly.
And that could resonate withsomeone on the listening coach.
It's been a pleasure.
Hope you don't mind if I callyou a friend.
I just love having Absolutely.
Having you talk.
And, uh, I'm gonna, I'm gonnasend you a book and get your
(33:36):
feedback on my recruiting book,but, uh Oh great.
Just so you have one and but Iwish you guys all the best of
luck.
Have a great summer and I'lllook forward to future
conversations.
Sounds great.
Thank you very much.
A big thank you to Coach Paulusfor joining me and offering such
a clear look into how achampionship caliber coach
evaluates talent and buildsprograms that last.
(33:58):
I love his humility and I lovehis dedication to doing it right
and doing it his way.
If you're a student athlete orparent trying to navigate the
recruiting process, remember youdon't need 100 schools.
You need the right fit.
And sometimes it starts withsomething as simple as quick
hands and the right attitude.
(34:18):
And don't forget to subscribe.
See you never miss an episode,and head over to coach matt
rogers.com to check out my booksand to schedule a free college
recruiting strategy session withme.
Thanks for listening, And asalways, remember, recruiting
isn't about chasing offers.
It's about pursuingsignificance.
We'll see you next week where Ihave another great guest ready
(34:40):
to help you with your coachingand recruiting needs.
Have a great week.
someone said to me, how did youguys get over the hump and get
(00:03):
good?
How did you get players to come?
I said, I sat over and I lookedat'em on the other side of the
desk.
I said, I can guarantee you,based on the skillset I have in
this program, you will playright away.
And you and I, are gonna buildthis program and do something no
one's ever done here.
(00:26):
Welcome to significantRecruiting, the podcast that
helps student athletes andfamilies take control of the
college recruiting journey.
Today's guest is Paul Spadeshead baseball coach at Westmont
College, who brings nearly 30years of experience, over 850
career wins, and a proven trackrecord of developing elite
athletes on and off the field.
(00:46):
In this episode, we dig inexactly what Coach Faggy looks
for in a recruit and why if akid has quick hands.
He believes he can turn theminto a ballplayer.
Now he's from Boston, so ifyou're from the Boston area it's
not gonna hurt if you're fromBoston, let's put it that way.
Whether you're just startingyour recruitment or navigating
(01:09):
decision time, this episode isfull of valuable insight.
And before we dive in, don'tforget to subscribe and check
out all my tools, books, andfree
resources@coachmattrogers.com.
Alright, let's get started.
Here's my recruitingconversation with Coach Paul.
(01:30):
All right, coach, let's, let'sjump into some recruiting talk.
You've been doing this a longtime, so I'm sure you have a
system in place.
I'm seeing the board behind youa little bit.
I'm sure you got some recruitingstuff back there.
Talk about your structure ofrecruiting.
And how you use your staff andhow you guys meet and how you
(01:51):
discuss who you're going torecruit and why you're going to
recruit.
Yeah.
So that's evolved through theyears, of course.
With access to social media the,the access of the club
environment or personal coachestread driveline.
All those places have had areally positive impact on the
(02:12):
recruiting process in a lot ofways, but also allow and I also
think allow you to really, likestrategically go look at kids
that have specific skill setsthat you might be interested in.
Right.
So the, the club and the travelball have all come together and
they understand that theirbusiness model is to help these
(02:32):
kids get off to the next level.
So they're providing as muchinforma a lot more information
than we got 10, 15 years ago.
Right, right.
And especially data-driveninformation is huge with
pitching in a lot of ways.
So I think how we do it iswe're, I'm in like this staff
transition here at, uh,Westmont.
(02:52):
So what, how I will do it movingforward is I.
Depending on how many of, howmuch of my staff is back from
last year, we talk about, okay,here's who we have coming back.
How do we project them out towin a conference championship?
That's obviously goal one.
And you win in a conferencechampionship, you go to the
regional, and then we move onfrom there.
(03:13):
And then the next step fromthere would be, okay, we know
what it takes in some fashion tobe a conference.
Champion, but we want to be aregional champion, right?
We need to get to carry NorthCarolina.
What is the upgrades that wehave to have?
You know, is it, do we need ahigher level caliber pitcher?
Do we need more pop or thump?
(03:34):
Do we need to be more of anathletic team?
I don't want to chase my tail asa recruiting coach, like, oh,
well we didn't run last year, sonow we're gonna run this year.
And then I'm constantly flippingmy philosophy.
That can be, now I'm just, everyother year I'm doing something
different.
There's no continuity for thekids.
Yeah, right.
In terms of what you're tryingto build in them stylistically.
(03:56):
So I think that's where westart.
What do we have returning?
Can we project them out and thenwe start to fill in from there?
I have a preference.
It's a different world now withthe portal, and I'm getting
hammered right now withexcellent looking baseball
players that are in the portaland want to transfer.
And I, I signed 20 high schoolkids this year from Wow.
(04:20):
Yeah.
Oh, well we had, we had a seniorclass of 16 to 17 guys, so I.
You have to replace those guysin a lot of fashion.
Yeah.
And so I thought being a newcoach, I might lose some guys in
the transfer portal'cause theymight have not been happy with
their playing time or whatever.
And we haven't lost any, wehaven't lost any.
(04:40):
So they had a great experience.
They have great teammates.
We've lost a couple guys, butthey were, it was less of, I
think, the playing time issueand more of just the right fit
here.
Right.
At a place where you're paying,you're financing most of your
education as an athlete in a lotof ways, so did you help those
kids with that transition or didthey come to you and say, I'm,
this is what I'm gonna make?
(05:02):
They came to me.
Okay.
They came to me and so I, youknow.
I think, this is the world welive in.
I have some coaches that havetalked to me about like the
portal.
If you have an athlete thatwants to go on the portal, I'm
like, it's, there's no usefighting it now in my mind.
Yeah.
You gotta be in the guy's cornerand do the best you can to sell
(05:22):
'em on yr culture and thissituation's gonna be better for
you, I think.
Over the next couple years,we'll see whether that culture
allows us to keep more talent.
Yeah.
So I, I think that's, that'sgonna be an interesting one, but
we What do you like?
Go ahead.
Go ahead, coach.
No, you go.
You go.
What do you like to carry?
Oh.
(05:43):
Well, I like to carry 38 to 40guys, and I'm in the 50, I'm in
the 50 range.
Okay.
But we, that we were 54 guyslast year.
And because we didn't have anyreal guys going the portal and I
brought in the same amount ofseniors we're at that we're at
that we need to figure out I, Iwould like to right size without
(06:03):
cutting kids.
Yeah.
I'm with you.
All right.
So you are where you are withpost COVID, big class graduates.
Yeah.
Bring, bringing in a bunch ofhigh school kids.
You have to do what you have todo, you injuries, class time.
There's so many things that youhave to have a big roster to, to
get you through a long season,especially when you're playing
50 plus games.
(06:24):
Yeah.
And you need, and you need arms.
Yep.
And I'm assuming you're a 50 50,50 guy.
Half pitchers, half utility.
Yep.
Yep.
Exactly.
Carry three catchers, sometimesfour.
Probably four.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yep.
How do we keep, maybe this isthe wrong question, may, let me
rephrase it.
(06:45):
How do we make sure 20 guys, 18year olds are coming into the
program?
They're developing, they'reunderstanding the culture,
they're understanding what canbe here long-term, if they're
committed.
To being here for four yearsand, and growing with us coaches
and growing with the staff.
How do we create that?
(07:05):
Yeah.
So I think it starts I think Iinherited that culture here
where the play, the player, theculture of the seniors is
incredible here, and thatleadership like gets filtered
and being a part of the Westmontprogram is something that these
kids really, really enjoy.
They're treated well.
They treat each other well.
(07:26):
And so there that.
Kind of colloquial, we're afamily mentality.
These kids literally love beinga part of the Westmont program
because of how they treat eachother.
So I think you have to havegreat leadership with your
upperclassmen that they'retaking the younger kids under
their belt and letting themknow, Hey guys, I was there.
(07:47):
I was a part of the nationalChampionship team in 23 or 24,
whenever that was.
I think it was 23 and I got 25at bats that year.
The following year, I became astarter and I was an All
American.
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
And so, so the younger kids cansee like a history of
incredible, physically talentedkids that had to work their way
(08:11):
into the system.
Yeah.
So that there's that, and youneed the right players
emotionally that can filter thatinto the younger kids.
And then I think from a practicestandpoint we scrimmage a lot.
I tell the kids, even when wehave all these guys, you are
going to play baseball here andwe're going to, you're gonna get
your app bats.
It might not be against PointLoma and Cal Poly Pomona, but
(08:35):
every week you're gonna get fourto eight app bats.
As a guy that's not starting ata minimum, we scrim three days a
week right now with, because wehave the talent to do it.
And so, and then what I'll makesure I do is even though I think
those scrimmages help ourfrontline guys see more pitching
consistently,'cause the way theyset us up here is we play
(08:57):
Friday, Saturday, and then we'reoff basically in practicing.
Baseball's meant to be playedconsistently.
I think see, consistently, I'mconstantly feeding positive
feedback into our backups.
We won this weekend because wecrammed.
Wednesday, Thursday and you cameout and tried to compete and we
(09:19):
put the scoreboard on and thenthere's also moments where
pitchers, right, we'll havepitchers that aren't seeing the
field.
Aren't seeing the field.
And it'll be like a Wednesdayand I'll be like, Hey, I have
this one young man in particularas a freshman attached.
I'm like all the teams together.
I'm like, you just stackedanother day kid.
Like that was a greatperformance and it was against
(09:39):
awesome.
Varsity kids that are winning alot of baseball games.
And then what would happen isthere would be a moment where I
had an opportunity to get T in agame, but he earned that
opportunity.
Does that make sense?
Yes.
And he gets in the game and hesucceeds and all the guys see
it.
And then on Monday I'm like, Heyguys, do you remember?
It was like, it just didn'thappen.
(10:00):
'cause tach stacked one day, hestacked a month of pitching
performances through the monthof February.
Where he never got on the fieldand an opportunity presented
itself and that kid was preparedand then love it.
All of a sudden now attachbecomes a bullpen guy for us.
So I think you have to createopportunities for them to be
(10:21):
able to not just throw bullpens,throw against great hitters.
And they'll, then it makes myjob easier.
If they're getting smashed orthey're walking guys, we can
just have a good conversation,Hey, let's look at our, let's
look at the numbers.
Here's where you need to get to.
And they're smart enough kids toget that.
But I think if I'm just throwingBP every day and they're just
(10:41):
throwing bullpens, they can'tsee maybe what the coach sees in
their bullpen performance.
So they're, they're batting,everybody hits batting practice
well.
Yeah.
How are we doing when we'refacing 90 to 91?
Yeah.
I think that's how I've tried tostrategize, to keep the energy
level of the backups in the mix,right?
(11:05):
Where we can then watch video.
We have the six camera videosystem here and love it.
We're coaching'em up.
And then, uh, the last thingI'll say on this,'cause I, I do,
I had a young man that was asenior that I played in one
game.
Okay.
One game this year.
I decided to bring him to theregional with us'cause he was a
senior and we're taking BP onthe day before the regional.
(11:27):
And I know and he knows there'sno way I'm putting him in the
game this weekend.
And I was still coaching his BPup.
Not in a hard way, like you'renot performing, but it w there
was a lot of knocks with, Heyman, do you see how you stayed
inside that ball?
Well, could you feel it off thebat?
Because I tell them, I'mpsychologically committing to
(11:47):
your development until you're nolonger wearing one of our
uniforms.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
And I was able to pat him on theback end.
His game day was BP in theregional.
Yeah.
You know, or infield, outfield,you know?
Yeah.
So you just have to work harderto keep them more engaged.
I'm gonna speak to the parents,the moms and dads and the high
school coaches listening tothis.
(12:08):
'cause it's so valuable.
'cause I, I deal so much withrecruiting now.
I'm helping so many kids get tocollege and I, I'm telling them,
you have to listen.
You.
It's not just about, Hey coach,do you like me?
And I like you?
You have to listen.
There's so many great coaches inthe country, but there's so few
(12:28):
that are constantly teaching.
Like you, you got 50 plus kidsand I bet there's not a kid that
walks off your field after anypractice that didn't say.
Coach.
Coach didn't make any commentsto me.
Coach didn't make any contactwith me.
It's energy.
If you're a coach, it doesn'tmatter if you're 55.
It doesn't matter if you're 25.
You have to give that energy toyour kids.
(12:49):
And they have to know thatyou're caring about them every
single day or it's real easy togo the coach, forget about me,
am I not a part of this?
Yeah.
And that, that becomes a cancerfor three other kids that aren't
playing with.
Absolutely.
100%.
And, and going back to usfailing as younger coaches.
Yeah.
I failed at that consistently inmy career, you know?
Yeah.
So all the players, if I had anyof my players, from 20 years
(13:12):
ago.
Or even 10 years ago saying,Hey, who, what's Fag is talking
about?
He never engaged with me on thatlevel.
I'm like, yeah, I learned fromthat failure.
Yeah.
My job I take, that was wrong ofme not to engage with you.
If you have a uniform on, andI'm telling you that's
important, I gotta engage withyou.
Yeah.
Does that make sense?
And the, and there's always thatkid that's having a really bad
(13:34):
day that's just not engaged.
You know, they're not talking,they're not, they're their
head's down.
They're, you know, they're goingthrough the motions.
And it's our responsibility ascoaches to go, what's up with
you?
What, where's the eye contacttoday?
Right?
What's going on?
I'm fine coach.
No, you're not Fine.
We don't have to talk to aboutit right now, but you're not
(13:55):
going to bed and I'm not goingto bed until we talk about it,
right?
Yep yep.
It's absolutely, it's, it's apart of who we are as coaches,
and if we're not playing thatrole, we're failing the kids.
So I love that about you and Ilove the energy and your
commitment to that because I hada, one of my kids called me last
night, she called in tears.
They had a high school practice.
(14:16):
Not one coach talked to her.
The coach.
Yeah.
Brought every kid to anindividual meeting and Hey, come
with me.
And I'm just like, I wannastrangle that coach.
Yeah.
You're giving that kid nothing.
You're giving him one, oneavenue to walk out that door and
it's not a good one.
Even if I chewed on your butttoday and'cause you didn't work
hard or you didn't run out of apopup, it's'cause I cared about
(14:38):
you and you know it, you know, II didn't give up on you.
Right.
Yes.
Yep.
I love that.
Yeah.
All right.
Talk to me about your recruitingboard.
You guys have your systems inplace.
You know what you need, you knowwhat you need for next year in
two years.
What does that recruiting boardlook like?
When you look at your 20 sixes,do you got a hundred kids?
(14:58):
Do you have a 200 kids?
Do you have 30 at each position?
You know, you gotta bring in?
What does that look like?
I feel like because our numbersare so big, and I brought in
such a big class this year ingeneral, it's gonna be a smaller
pool of guys.
Yeah, so, but in general, Iwould say like.
Generally, if I'm thinking abouta recruiting process and if I
(15:20):
wanted to be, you asked what'smy ideal number?
I think I said like 38 athletes,right?
Yeah.
So that's, what's that likemaybe nine, eight to 10 guys a
year that I'm really sitting on.
Yeah.
In order to get to eight to 10,I'm probably at three guys,
three to four top guys perpositional group that I'm
(15:40):
looking to recruit.
So, you know, a lot of coachesdo this in baseball and I've
started to do it as of late.
You're gonna recruit short stops'cause you can always move them
to center field if they run wellor third base or second base.
Yep.
Yep.
You know, so those guys, you'regonna, you're gonna need
multiple middle infielders thatyou like athletically.
You always going back to, youasked how many catchers I would
(16:02):
like a catcher in each class.
Yeah, me too.
So we're, we look at the boardand we're like, okay, we might
need two catchers this year.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
So then maybe one's a freshman,but one's a sophomore portal guy
to create that gap betweensenior, junior, sophomore,
freshman.
(16:23):
We'd like to develop'em.
'cause now with the portal, Ihave the luxury to say, Hey, I
actually need a senior catcher.
Maybe that's what we need to siton this year in June or July and
August.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
And then outfield, we'llprobably, if I'm looking, I.
For like a couple.
It depends.
If I'm looking for a centerfielder, I think the speed
(16:45):
component comes into it justlike that eighties and nineties
model.
Yeah.
Um, if it's a corner outfield,I'm looking for probably a, a
little more of a thump guy.
Yep.
That I think can slug prettywell.
So if I'm looking to bring intwo of those corner outfielders,
I'm probably jumping on aboutsix of'em, that I narrow a pool
down to six.
(17:06):
Okay.
Does that make sense?
Would that, would, you guysmight look at 50 to a hundred of
those kids to get it down tothat six?
Yeah, I would probably say that.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't even know whatthe number is.
'cause every day I'm lookingright.
Yeah.
It never ends.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
So, and now you can look onTwitter, so everybody's throwing
out their profile, right?
Yeah.
So I could go, Hey man, I'll letme watch his swing on video.
(17:30):
And then I'm like, Ooh, I likethat swing.
Let me look at his numbers.
Yeah.
And going back to our processwith my recruiting coordinator,
I'll say, Hey, can you reach outto his coaches?
Can you find out what hischaracters like?
And if they like him and whathave they seen?
Yeah.
And then, then it will come downto now we'll go watch them play.
Now you wanna see'em live Uhhuh?
(17:51):
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
At what point were you invitethat kid and their parents to
campus?
If I, if we'll invite'em up tocampus if I feel like they're a
legitimate prospect for us.
Okay.
Is that a camp invite for you oris that We'll invite a visit
first.
We'll invite everybody to camps.
We've, camps have been a greatasset for us.
(18:15):
Yeah.
'cause there'll be kids at campthat show up at camp.
'cause we have a mass database.
Right, right.
Because when I get off the,podcasts today, I'll, I'll look
at my email.
I have 15 emails from probably15 good baseball players with
video, and I kind of gotta pourthrough quickly and then I'll
send'em a questionnaire.
They're in our database, they'reall gonna get invited to our
(18:37):
event.
The guys that show up to ourevent, and then their numbers
are good.
We're gonna jump on'em rightaway.
'cause they showed an interestin our school.
And I like them.
So now we're, we almost got thehook in.
We've almost set the hook.
So those ID camps are huge.
I think we've got well andincredible.
And they're doing, they're doingso much of the work for you.
(18:57):
You don't have to convince'em tolook at your school.
They're already excited aboutWestmont.
'cause they're showing up.
They're already excited aboutyou.
Right.
And you get, they're coming toyou to see, you get to see'em
play, live and work with'em.
Exactly.
I love that.
And you can manipulate theprocess.
So if I go down to, I, I wentdown to modern day in the spring
looking at a guy, and let's sayhe gets up maybe twice, maybe
(19:19):
three times seven in a highschool game.
And he walks twice.
He walks.
Great.
But I need to, I need to see himswing the bat.
Yeah.
And he is playing shortstop andhe got one play and it, his
routine.
Yeah.
Whoa.
Like, man, I'd love to have youon campus and work you to a
right.
Work you to your left time, youin a 60, take bp so I see your
(19:39):
hands, and then give you fourlive at bats against a pitcher.
And when you walk, I go, Hey,stay up again.
Yeah.
So I see you swing.
Yeah.
So it's, it's such an advantagefor us as coaches.
I love that.
Yeah.
All right.
I'm gonna speak to your, yourheartstrings a little bit here.
Sure.
I'm a 16-year-old in Boston.
Yeah.
I'm 3000 miles away.
(20:02):
Yep.
You're probably not coming tosee me play live.
Correct.
What do I gotta do to get yourattention?
'cause I wanna play at Westmont.
I wanna play for you, but I'm3000 miles away.
Do I have to spend a grand toget to your camp and get a hotel
room and get my dad there andmom there and rental car?
No.
Depending video's not ideal.
(20:26):
But it's.
I'll use this as an example.
I, I saw a vote on three swingson a video baseball factory, and
this was when we had the phoneson our desk where you pick it up
like this and dial and, and I, Isaw three swings.
'cause it was a baseball CD rom.
Yeah.
Yeah, I remember.
Yeah.
Hey man, have you been offeredyet?
(20:46):
And he's like, no.
And I go, okay, I'm offering youa scholarship right now.
And I talked to him about AUSAand his brother.
Yeah, right there.
Thanks.
I was like, his, his handslooked lightning fast and, um.
And then another guy Kirk Neen,who played seven years in the
bigs and played for me at Azusaand took over for me.
(21:06):
He's the head coach at a PU now,Kirk.
We watched him on video.
I was like, dang, I, that guy'sgot good ha that guy's got fast
hands.
So we said, Hey, come on.
He's a Colorado kid.
Come out and visit.
He came out and visit, which is,he had to spend a little money
on that.
We first time in SouthernCalifornia, it rained for three
days.
We couldn't get him outside.
(21:27):
Oh.
So I had to offer him based onthe video.
So two video guys.
I offered both Big leaguers, soI'm like, maybe I'm okay on
video.
There was something there.
Yeah, maybe I'm all right.
Yeah, so, so I would say for theBoston Kid video, and then I'll
probably come out and see you.
'cause then it's, it's an excusefor me to go to Fenway Park and,
uh, yeah.
Visit my friends.
But absolutely, I would sayvideo if, if there's some,
(21:50):
coaches, Rex Travel Ball.
We try to go to as many eventsas we can.
Some of these guys, the EastCoast kids go down to Georgia a
lot, right?
Yeah.
To East Bob and stuff.
So what I would do, this is thenice part about being in a small
world, if I'm not gonna gothere,'cause it's not super
beneficial for me to go toGeorgia to think I'm gonna get a
(22:11):
kid from the East Coast toWestmont.
I'm gonna stay in Arizona,California for the most part.
Yeah, you gotta control yourbudget.
Yeah, exactly.
But if a kid really loves us.
Like, I have enough colleaguesand friends that I've been
coaching with through the yearsthat will be there and probably
be able to see that kid.
So you're just, you are doingyour own research as a coach
(22:33):
because that young man loves theschool.
Absolutely.
I.
Absolutely real quick about filmand if for any Boston kids that
are out there, I love Bostonguys, so send your Yeah,
absolutely.
Especially, especially if you'reyour Red Sox fan.
Ruin Celtics.
Pats quick thoughts on Raffidevs he's gonna do well with the
(22:53):
Giants.
I think it was a tough situationthat probably wasn't handled
well emotionally right out ofthe gate.
Now that I have, you know, guysthat have been up in the big
league level and I've heardtheir stories about front
office, and now I have someonein the front office or
managerial, right?
Yeah.
You kind of go, man, maybe Ibetter hold out judgment on how
(23:14):
guys have handled these things.
Yeah.
Does that make sense?
Yes.
It just breaks my heart though,when I want a ball player.
I want a guy that says, put mewherever you need me, coach you,
me, a catch I've never caughtbefore, but put the gear on.
I'll, if we need a catcher, I'llcatch right.
Any and, and$300 million.
$300 million go play first base.
If you want to know my personalopinion based on being a Red Sox
(23:36):
fan, I'm pissed at the frontoffice that they didn't resign
Mookie.
Oh, yeah.
The reason why they didn'tresign Mookie is because they
knew they had devs coming up andthey were gonna pay for him.
Yeah.
And I'm like, okay, that's a bigblunder because Mookie's one of
the most well respected.
People in the game of baseballand you passed up on giving him
(23:58):
that max contract.
Man, that's.
That's bad, tough business.
You know, I, I wasn't excitedabout that.
There's, there's a, that's myBoston side.
Yeah.
There's a pretty good All-starteam over the last seven years
that have left Boston.
Pitchers and, you know, you canget into the weeds there.
100%.
Yeah.
Well, so what's going onculturally?
(24:19):
Exactly.
Sorry to get off anybody that'slistening, that's not a, major
league baseball fan, but Iwanted to have that conversation
too.
All right, coach, I, I'm gonnalet you go.
You've been great, but I, I wantyou to give one piece of advice
to families that are goingthrough the recruiting process.
What do you want them to knowthat can make it healthy for
(24:39):
them to get, help their son getto that next level, wherever
that school may be?
I, again, I do like, I, I wouldsay put if you have the
resources or you have to figureout how you're gonna spend your
resources.
Find the right, find matches atdifferent levels.
(25:00):
'cause we all wanna playdivision one baseball.
I 100% on board with that.
But find a school that matches acouple, division three, a couple
ai, a couple D two, and thenyour D ones.
Does that make sense?
Yep.
And put yourself in situationswhere those coaches at those
institutions will be there.
Yeah.
As simple as that.
(25:20):
So if that's coming to a camp,come to a camp.
If that's doing a multi camp, ifyou're an academic guy, this is
a super expensive camp but forkids that actually have the
money to do it.
But Show Ball is a big academiccamp where all the Ivy League
guys are.
Yep.
But that a lot of, I imagine thenew MAT coaches go to those as
(25:41):
well.
They do, yeah.
Yeah.
And so like spread yourself outto these areas.
Where those coaches are gonna beon the field.
Yeah.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
I think that's absolutely.
And they get to interact withyou personally.
And, and, um, and then even likeI told my son who played high
school baseball, I'm like, Heyman, there's always gonna be a
(26:01):
place for you to play baseball.
Yep.
Okay.
But you have to decide is thatspot location worth what you
might be sacrificing in terms ofyour major.
Your desire to be in a certainarea of the country.
Yeah.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
And, um, playing time rightaway.
Playing time right away, allthose things.
(26:21):
And, uh, I think finding theright institution is the right
start.
I don't wanna overwhelm you andI don't want you to have more on
your plate than you guys alreadyhave.
But if a kid just wants anevaluation,'cause they don't
know where they belong, theydon't know where they fit.
Is your staff comfortablelooking at a film for three
(26:42):
minutes and going, Hey, this iswhere I see you.
You're not a great fit for us,but you know, this is where I
think you could play.
Yeah.
I always get nervous doing that'cause I feel like they're gonna
end up in the league and thencrushing us.
I had a guy I, I had a guy atPomona.
I cut.
(27:03):
This is why I stopped cutting.
I, I, I kid you not, I cut andOh, he didn't go play for bird?
No, he went and played atClaremont McKenna.
Oh, Roddy Cart Street.
No.
And and I totally, it was all mebeing a young coach and a man
just idiot.
Yep.
And he goes, and sure enoughhe's playing against us and he's
like in a three game set.
(27:25):
He probably had 10 hits and, andI'm 25, 26 years old.
And he'd bang his, his eighthhit and he'd point at me in the
dugout like, Hey man, you letlike all in my face.
So here's what's great aboutlife.
Here's what's great about life.
He's a great kid and he wasprobably a really good player
and I was just 26 years old,made the wrong call, right?
(27:48):
One of, one of my Pomona Pitzerkids is a lawyer now in LA and
he goes, Hey, guess who I'm goodfriends with?
And it was this young man.
Okay.
And I go, no way.
And I'm like, and he had aSpanky story.
Yeah.
And I go, you gonna apologizefor him?
Okay.
Apologize to him for me.
Right.
I'm like 50 now.
(28:08):
I totally messed that up.
Like, and he, he connected mewith him via.
Text.
Right.
And his son plays I, I thinkfreshman baseball or he is got
little kids and we're all gonnaconnect at some point and get
together.
That's great.
But he's older now and he sawthe bigger picture and he had a
great experience at Claremont.
But I have a hard time probablydoing that because I think a
(28:29):
kid, for me to say your divisionthree player and not a D two
player, I don't know if I cansay that or not'cause there's
plenty of guys playing for burnsover burn.
That could start for me.
Yeah.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, absolutely.
And it, I think it's in baseballthan more than any other sport.
Right?
(28:49):
I don't think a di I think 99%of the volleyball players that
play division three, theycouldn't even hold the a minute
on the court for division one.
That's right.
Basketball, there's so few kidsthat play division three
basketball that can playdivision two, let alone division
one.
But I think baseball, we'reseeing more and more of it.
Where there's just a, it's justabout the evaluation of that,
(29:11):
that coach, correct.
Who was the kid?
I don't follow division one, butmy son was telling me the short
stop from, uh, Arkansas.
Yeah, right.
Was he a Sac State kid?
I, I think so.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So here's my question.
He was just named the, like theSpikes Award winner.
The best player in collegebaseball hit 20 something jacks.
Okay.
So Sac State was the only guy,the only coach that identified
(29:34):
that kid.
So that goes back to we miss andmisidentify kids so much in the
game of baseball.
Yeah.
And I think it would be hard forme to sit back and go, Hey, this
would be a good spot for you.
Find here.
Here's the advice I would tellguys.
Hey man, if find the school thatfits your style of play.
Yes.
If you a burner and a hit foraverage guy like going back to
(29:57):
you, you must know ScottWinterburn at Laverne.
Yep.
Yeah.
Bene are close.
Yeah.
So they do an incredible, youcan't strike'em out.
They know how to hit the ballthe other way.
They know how to execute andthey know how to play great
baseball, great style ofbaseball.
Yep.
So if my son were not a six twoplotter with his feet, but had
(30:19):
good feet, could turn a doubleplay and had back control, I'd
be like, you need to go play forScott Winterburn.
Yeah.
Because you're gonna win gamesand you're gonna be highly
successful.
Because of the style of playCoach Winterburn has with his
athletes.
Yeah.
Incredible.
And then I bet you Scott wouldsay,'cause he said this about my
Tufts team we had some guys hitsome home runs in a series with
(30:43):
them and they were, ranked inthe top whatever, 10 in the
country.
'cause they're awesome.
And he, he probably rememberedmy Azusa teams, which were like
that.
Yeah.
And he'd be like, dang, you guysare aggressive.
So at the plate.
We're gonna swing and miss morethan Scott's teams.
Yeah.
So I would say too, if you'relike that athlete, go do your
(31:04):
research.
Find out what the laverne's looklike, what the pomona's look
like.
Redlands.
'cause we all coach similarly insome ways.
In some ways we have differentstylistic approaches.
Yeah.
And it's, for me, it's teachingkids.
You gotta look everywhere.
Yes.
You know, just because thisschool has a name or this school
has a reputation, man.
(31:25):
It might be a brand new coachcoming in and this guy's great
and he's a great fit for you.
So go look.
You know, yes.
Everybody's got a cafeteria,everybody's got dorm rooms,
everybody's got a library.
Find a coach, find anenvironment, find a culture that
you fit and you're gonna growthere.
100%.
And being, going back to Pomonaeight and 32, they hadn't had
winning three winning seasons inschool history.
(31:48):
Yeah.
And I got there in 96.
Yeah.
So someone said to me, how didyou guys get over the hump and
get good?
Like, how did you get players tocome?
I said, I, I, I sat over and Ilooked at'em on the other side
of the desk.
I said, I can guarantee you,based on the skillset I have in
this program, you will playright away.
And you and I, I.
Are gonna build this program anddo something no one's ever done
(32:10):
here.
Yep.
And now if you are, if that ifthere's a kid on listening to
this right now and goes, thatfires me up.
Find a program with a youngcoach that's trying to turn
something around.
Yeah.
Because you can, because it'sgonna be hard.
Yeah.
And you're gonna feel thedaggers from former like players
and current guys in the program.
But if you want that experience,those guys still, we get
(32:32):
together because they went fromeight and 32 to 36 and seven.
Yep.
And they saw how hard it was todo that, and they attribute a
lot of their success in theirpersonal life now that they're
45 to the things they had to gothrough in that progress of
turning a program around.
Yep.
So that's exciting stuff andthere's plenty of great coaches
out there that are doing greatthings with teams that, that
(32:54):
need to turn things around.
I think of Tyler Lato atPepperdine, who I took over for.
They're in this process of, he'strying to flip the script over
there right now.
What an exciting time if youwere one of those guys.
Absolutely.
And they, they have anincredible history of course,
but it'd be pretty cool to be apart of that run that Tyler's
(33:14):
gonna bring there to put'em backwhere they used to be.
Yeah.
Too, too many kids go chasing alegacy instead of saying, I'm
gonna go build one.
Yeah, exactly.
And that could resonate withsomeone on the listening coach.
It's been a pleasure.
Hope you don't mind if I callyou a friend.
I just love having Absolutely.
Having you talk.
And, uh, I'm gonna, I'm gonnasend you a book and get your
(33:36):
feedback on my recruiting book,but, uh Oh great.
Just so you have one and but Iwish you guys all the best of
luck.
Have a great summer and I'lllook forward to future
conversations.
Sounds great.
Thank you very much.
A big thank you to Coach Paulusfor joining me and offering such
a clear look into how achampionship caliber coach
evaluates talent and buildsprograms that last.
(33:58):
I love his humility and I lovehis dedication to doing it right
and doing it his way.
If you're a student athlete orparent trying to navigate the
recruiting process, remember youdon't need 100 schools.
You need the right fit.
And sometimes it starts withsomething as simple as quick
hands and the right attitude.
(34:18):
And don't forget to subscribe.
See you never miss an episode,and head over to coach matt
rogers.com to check out my booksand to schedule a free college
recruiting strategy session withme.
Thanks for listening, And asalways, remember, recruiting
isn't about chasing offers.
It's about pursuingsignificance.
We'll see you next week where Ihave another great guest ready
(34:40):
to help you with your coachingand recruiting needs.
Have a great week.
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